Wednesday Open Thread

Our last open thread is full, here's another one, all topics welcome.

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    Apples! (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 01:35:17 PM EST
    We have bushels and bushels of apples.  The hot pepper sauce sprayings of the apple trees absolutely discouraged the deer, without harming the environment or the apples.
    Making and freezing apple pies.  Going to root cellar the remaining apples for later.  I used to make and can applesauce when the kids were little, since they loved it, but since Mr. Zorba and I are kind of "meh" about applesauce, I no longer make it.
    Wish I had a cider press!

    Cider Press (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by squeaky on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 01:48:15 PM EST
    If you are feeling handy and up for a project there is this, or this....otherwise there is this.

    Yes to apples! (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 01:50:47 PM EST
    Instead of applesauce, I put a ton through the food processor grate blade and just froze in zip locks. Makes quick work of them and now I have them for cooking. If I need applesauce for a recipe, takes no time to make from the grated apples. I'm going to make some small hand pies from the grated apples as soon as I finish putting up the rest of the tree, dealing with the piles of tomatoes and now it seems, the pineapple guava that are starting to drop . . . .

    Good to know the hot pepper sauce worked for you! My prob was the folks encouraging their kids to climb my fence for apples . . . I don't mind if they grab what they can reach, but please don't encourage all your many kids to climb my fence at the same time and start hanging off my tree . . .

    Google cider making. I saw something on doing it without a press and it looked doable for smaller batches . . . I was thinking about trying it.


    Your neighbors encourage their kids (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:03:15 PM EST
    to climb your fence?

    Where do people get off?  Had a similar problem in IL.  They had two kids.   One was a toddler who would stand with his faces pressed into the chainlink screaming "DOGGIEEEEEEEEEE".  Then he would throw every thing not tied down over the fence to the dogs.   Toys, tools,  food.  When ran out he would take his clothes off and throw them over.  Then the 10 would climb over the fence to retrieve what he could.  I said "don't do that.  My dogs are harmless but they have never been around kids.  Don't climb over my fence when I'm not here."
    They got very bent.  There was quite a row.  They ended up moving.  I thnk after they figured out I was gay.


    HAHA (none / 0) (#7)
    by squeaky on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:13:47 PM EST
    Being gay is more effective for getting rid of nuisance neighbors than shooting them.

    Funny secret weapon.


    That was not my intention (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:16:27 PM EST
    but I was told later they were serious fundies.   I was lucky there, after that, to have great neighbors.  That was very early in my 3.5 year stay.

    What Morons (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by squeaky on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:31:41 PM EST
    They missed out!! Bet they miss a lot of the great stuff life has to offer... they, no doubt will make up for the lost time in heaven (or hell)..  

    Glad you have good neighbors now.  


    The only religious fundamentalists ... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:32:58 PM EST
    ... I want to see are Rastafari.

    Well, if you keep your (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:57:05 PM EST
    apples sprayed with hot pepper sauce (we use ghost pepper sauce diluted with water), and the kids eat some apples before they wash them off, I bet they won't be stealing any apples after that!  And even if they do rinse the apples off but aren't really, really careful to wash their hands afterwards, and happen to rub their eyes with those hands......Ow! Ow! Ow!
    One trial learning.
    Oh, BTW, if those kids happen to climb your fence and your trees and fall off and break their necks in your yard, you might be liable.  Those "encouraging" parents, I'm betting, would be the first ones to sue you.  Check with your insurance agent and local law enforcement.

    All you fruit harvesters are (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by fishcamp on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:52:32 PM EST
    invited down to the fabulous Florida keys for free fishing trips, especially if you bring apple pies.  You can also take home tons of coconuts, fish, and lobsters.  We also serve boat drinks but without the dorky little umbrellas.  Restaurants down here have been known to trade dinners for pies.  

    Squirrels and birds got all our apples - 100% (none / 0) (#67)
    by Peter G on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:44:01 PM EST
    Must try the hot pepper spray next year.

    Would help with the squirrels, Peter (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 08:14:01 PM EST
    They are mammals.  But unfortunately, it won't help with the birds because they have no capsaicin receptors, so it won't discourage them.  It won't bother insects, either.

    What type of apple pies do you make? (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:02:25 PM EST
    I like all kinds but prefer the apple crumb variety.

    Have to vote with your kids on homemade applesauce. Done right (as I'm sure you do) it is a real threat.

    Several months ago, I traveled to a small town in IL that was known for all you can eat pork chops. The dinner included pork chops, mash potatoes and gravy, green beans, homemade cole slaw,  applesause and fresh from the oven biscuits. It was served family style.

    Everything was delicious  but I ate sparingly of everything else so that  I could pig out on the homemade applesauce  and cole slaw.


    Ha Ha! (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:10:13 PM EST
    Have to vote with your kids on homemade applesauce. Done right (as I'm sure you do) it is a real threat.

    D@mn typos!


    you've clearly (none / 0) (#11)
    by CST on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:21:12 PM EST
    never been in a food fight :)

    Although if I learned anything in my years of being "babysat" by my older sister while the parents were busy, it's that milk is the real threat in a food fight.  Applesauce is no joke though.  Easily flung, sticky, but you don't feel too bad about getting it in your sister's hair.

    On that note, I'm never having kids.


    I am the oldest (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:32:53 PM EST
    With three younger sisters (6, 10, and 12 years younger than me), who have colluded to make up stories about mean things I allegedly did to them while watching them. I think they need medication for their delusions, however, because I was always outnumbered.  The only mean thing I did was try and make sure they behaved.

    Never had a food fight (my parents would have KILLED us, ground up our bodies, and there would have been no trace of any of us remaining), but once when I was 12 and my sister was 6, she did something to tick me off but good.  We were in the backyard, so I chased her in the house - she got to the back door and ran inside, pulled the storm door closed and locked it.  I tried to knock once, very hard, on the bottom glass pane, and promptly put my hand through it.  Luckily, I didn't even get a scratch, but she got in trouble, and my parents got a new storm door out of it (since it was old and to fix the glass for a weird sized door would have been more expensive). I got a good story where I sound like a bad a$$ in breaking glass and suffering no injuries.  :)


    Yes, my typos tend to be funny (none / 0) (#14)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:30:25 PM EST
    Last year we had a bumper crop... (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:15:28 PM EST
    We made lots of applesauce and froze it in pint containers.  We also used our tomatoes and onions to make a bunch of chile con carne, using an old fashioned, non-purist recipe - which means beans, and froze that in quart containers.  Great fun on the ensuing winter nights when we we barely had energy to eat, much less, cook.

    This year apples were barely in evidence.  The usual few (deer's favorite) on an old Orange Pippin but on the other trees, almost zip.  Gotta go through my apple book and catalogs and figure out if the trees that survived twenty years of deer and frosts were biannual bearers.  I planted thirteen fillins this spring.  I sure hope I didn't repeat the mistake.


    Both sound great (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:42:30 PM EST
    I'm a great fan of homemade applesauce and few things taste better on a cold winter night than a warm bowl of homemade chili.

    I like my applesauce to be slightly chunky and not all ground down to the same fine texture. I also like to have small chunks of tomatoes in my chili.

    Sorry this was not a good year for your apples. Hopefully your research will pay off and you will have an abundant crop next year.


    I got no apples (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:17:49 PM EST
    this year.  Well few apples.  But the deer were well fed.

    I'm tell you, Howdy (none / 0) (#33)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:08:55 PM EST
    Spray those apples with a mixture of hot pepper sauce and water.  Get the hottest pepper sauce you can find.  We use ghost pepper sauce- a little goes a long way.
    You do have to re-apply after every rain, but the deer won't touch your apples after one taste.  Mammals have capsaicin receptors, and the apples won't be tasty to the deer.
    It worked great for us.

    Next year (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:12:15 PM EST
    oddly they were the only thing in the yard they seemed interested in this year.

    I make both (none / 0) (#30)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:04:20 PM EST
    Apple crumb and two crust apple pies, and freeze them unbaked.
    We prefer, instead of applesauce, sautéed apple slices.  Sautée them in butter with some brown sugar and cinnamon.  Sometimes, I add nuts, sometimes a little rum or brandy.  Sometimes, for a savory dish, I add onions (I skip the cinnamon for this).
    Fortunately, we have a really nice root cellar (one advantage of having an old farm house without a "real" basement), and our root-cellared apples and potatoes keep many months, so we can use them relatively fresh.  They're eaten up before they go bad.  (We do save aside about a half bushel of potatoes to sprout for replanting as seed potatoes.)

    I like sautéed apple slices. (none / 0) (#35)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:18:21 PM EST
    But I like them to have a slightly sweet/tart taste. Not sure if anyone else fixes them this way or would even like them. Since I only fix them for myself, it doesn't really matter.

    I like to start with really firm, tart apples (preferably Granny Smith) and sautée them in butter with some brown sugar, cinnamon and just the smallest splash of lemon juice. I also leave them slightly firmer than many of the prepared dishes I have sampled. Once again, they have a sweet/tart taste that I like.



    Yes, we like them (none / 0) (#38)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:26:11 PM EST
    firm, too.
    Lemon juice is definitely good for sweet/tart.
    Try a splash of rum as well, if you like rum.  Goes well with apples.  ;-)

    We also have Key limes down here... (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by fishcamp on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:00:57 PM EST
    Mny inrrtro opto key lime pie was (none / 0) (#92)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:15:20 PM EST
    at a restaurant in akey West.

    Wish I could get some spiced rum from Saba, (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:18:33 PM EST
    Saba is an island in the Dutch West Indies. Went there several, several years ago and they had the best spiced rum I have ever tasted. Each family had their own very secret recipe for making it and to the best of my knowledge it is not sold commercially outside of the island.

    An interesting island known for their Saba Lace, their spiced rum and back then they were becoming a very popular dive spot.



    Great, let's go to Saba, (none / 0) (#73)
    by fishcamp on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 05:08:40 PM EST
    The Queen of the Caribbean,  I have a friend that lives there and has begging me to come visit.  You do know there is not one beach on Saba.  Have you ever been on a night dive MO?  They're not for the faint of heart since you just know there are dozens of toothy critters right behind you.  

    I think I would rather sit on the boat (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 05:31:56 PM EST
    drinking spiced rum while you dive. My first concern would be that I would drown before I had to worry about toothy critters. Guess I never mentioned that I am not a strong swimmer and that I funked jocket in kindergarten.

    I have done some limited snorkeling but only when accompanied by someone who is very good.

    After picking up the rum and me watching you dive, we really need to go to some other island that has a nice long beach. Love walking on the beach and there is something very special watching the sunset over the water.


    I won't (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:35:14 PM EST
    tell my husband about you or he would be driving up to Maryland to get bushels of apples!

    Last year we went up to N. Ga and got apples and I made apple butter. He gets this big idea that he needs to get more food for me to can. Why do HIS ideas always involve more work for me?

    And do you use a pressure cooker to can things?


    I should sell our apples (none / 0) (#36)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:21:09 PM EST
    by the side of the road, we have so many this year!
    I use both boiling water bath and pressure canning, depending upon what I'm canning.
    Jams get a boiling water bath.  I use boiling water bath for canned tomatoes and plain tomato sauce, but the newest varieties are lower acid than the older ones, so the USDA recommends adding lemon juice before using the boiling water bath, which I now do.  For spaghetti sauce, which involves the addition of other vegetables, it's pressure canning all the way.  Green beans and other vegetables get pressure canned (those that I don't freeze).  Pickles just get a boiling water bath- plenty of acid in them.
    And, obviously, if you can anything with meat in it, you must pressure can!  
    I admit, for jellies (not jams!) I use the old "open kettle" method.  Hot jelly poured into hot, sterilized jars, sealed, and turned upside down for ten minutes.  We haven't died yet!
    Cherries, when I get enough, I freeze and/or make into cherry jelly.

    PS (none / 0) (#52)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:55:37 PM EST
    Do you get a lot of peaches down your way?  (I mean, after all, Georgia!)
    The (very) few years when we've had lots of peaches, I've made peach butter- excellent!  We like it better than apple butter.  Also, peach jam.  And peach pie.
    {Sigh}  Haven't had that many peaches up here in years.  I think that, living where we do up on a mountain, it's more an anomaly when we do get peaches than when we don't.  Too many early frosts.   :-(

    Yes, (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:11:04 PM EST
    but not this year. I have to tell you that GA peaches are really the best. You could look into ordering them from the orchards but I'm not sure of the price. The best peaches come from south of Macon. I try to get them every year at the farmer's market and freeze them. I try to get Elberta because they are the original peach and you can still get them there.

    When I was in high school, my mother ... (none / 0) (#58)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:16:59 PM EST
    ... bought from a neighborhood Pasadena nursery what she believed to be a flowering peach tree, which is an ornamental landscape shrub tree from Asia that's not supposed to bear fruit. I dutifully planted it at her direction in the back yard.

    Well, that nursery was wrong because it ended up being a nectarine tree, which proved an unexpected blessing because my mother absolutely loves nectarines. She said that this year the tree had a bumper crop, despite the drought conditions.



    Nectarines are great, too! (none / 0) (#88)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:11:03 PM EST
    Love them.
    And also plums.  Unfortunately, our plum tree died a couple of years ago, and we haven't replaced it yet.
    But, Donald, in Hawaii, you can get absolutely wonderful mangoes, papayas, and pineapples, among other fruit.  You are so lucky!
    I haven't really been able to eat a pineapple from the grocery stores here since we visited Hawaii.  They are just not the same.  It is like the difference between fresh-picked garden tomatoes, and tomatoes from the grocery store.

    By the same token, ... (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 09:10:56 PM EST
    ... the cantaloupes, plums, etc. we get out here from the U.S. mainland have been picked so early for shipping that they're nearly tasteless. And expensive, too.

    So, yeah, we do tend to eat more local fruits and vegetables. My mother loves papaya, so we made sure to stock up from the local farmers market last weekend before she arrived on Monday. We have a papaya tree growing out back in our lanai, but its fruit has yet to mature. I've also shrouded the tree with a mesh screen so the birds don't get to them before we do.

    We grow our own tomatoes and fresh herbs, and we have several big mango, starfruit and tangerine trees nearby that are owned by friendly neighbors who are all too willing to share their bounty during the season. And when I work on the neighbor islands, the avocados from the Big Island and Molokai are to die for, so I always bring some home with me on the return flight.



    The long elusive (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by KeysDan on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:26:46 PM EST
    "Bilateral Security Agreement" with Afghanistan was signed shortly after the new Afghan President, Ashraf Ghani entered and Hamid Karzai exited the presidential palace.  The tenor of the celebration was described as cordial and buoyant; a mending of the alliance. A sigh of relief and sense of accomplishment.  At least for two years, when both countries have the right to withdraw from the bilateral agreement.

    The "bilateral" pact permits (a)  the US to keep 9,800 American and at least 2,000 NATO troops in Afghanistan after Dec 3l, 2014, mostly to help train the struggling Afghan security forces, and for the US to authorize $16 billion in economic aid, and (b) for the Kabul government to allow these American and NATO troops to train their struggling security forces and for Afghanistan to accept the $16 billion in economic aid.  

    It was agreed by all that this was a "shared interest."   A symbolic and stabilizing role for the political process--a process in which President Ghani, in his inaugural speech, included a call for the Taliban to join in peace talks.   The Taliban, according to the NYT, did not warm to the bilateral agreement ending their response with: "Death to America."

    Laugh or cry? (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:42:30 PM EST
    laugh or cry?  Which?

    Both. (none / 0) (#25)
    by KeysDan on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:52:42 PM EST
    Laugh and cry.

    Will U .S. military and contractors have (none / 0) (#96)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:23:28 PM EST
    the immunity we sought but did not get in Iraq?

    Absolutely (none / 0) (#106)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 08:24:07 PM EST
    It's not really immunity though (none / 0) (#107)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 08:25:20 PM EST
    They can only be punished via our chain of command.

    My friend's son is active duty Army in (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 08:28:40 PM EST
    Afghanistan. The last mail to the base had to be posted from here last week. Base is being closed down.

    Good News!! (none / 0) (#110)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 08:31:50 PM EST
    Safer for him pulling back

    It would be if he didn't keep (none / 0) (#112)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 08:36:53 PM EST
    volunteering for more interesting and potentially dangerous assignments.

    That's hard (none / 0) (#113)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 08:41:31 PM EST
    That would be much much harder, having an overachiever military child.

    You've already lived without your spouse once :)  You know you can do that.  When they start making you nervous you can distract yourself by buying more life insurance on them :)  I am glad Josh can't serve.  I'm glad my nieces chose not to also.  The families did enough for a generation.


    Thomas Eric Duncan (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:14:50 PM EST
    Our first Ebola patient. He is in critical condition. Flew from Liberia to Brussels to Dulles to Ft Worth. They took his temperature before he left Liberia and it was normal. I would like to hope that we would have a better testing system in the future. I guess until you are sick, they do not know. But the hospital dropped the ball. I hope Mr Duncan's condition improves and no other people he came in contact with are effected. I understand there are several children.

    Pluto Making a Comeback? (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:12:27 AM EST
    "a dwarf fruit tree is still a small fruit tree, and a dwarf hamster is still a small hamster."

    Not a planet?

    ... recently the Harvard-Smithsonian Center did something about it: It held a debate -- pro and con -- and let the audience vote. The result: "Pluto IS a planet."...

    ....According to a release from the centre, Owen Gingerich, who chaired the IAU planet definition committee, presented the historical viewpoint. He said Pluto is a planet, and "a planet is a culturally defined word that changes over time." Gareth Williams, associate director of the Minor Planet Center, presented the IAU's viewpoint -- that Pluto is not a planet. And Dimitar Sasselov, director of the Harvard Origins of Life Initiative, "presented the exoplanet scientist's viewpoint."


    Go Pluto (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:15:23 AM EST
    my fondness for dwarves previously noted.   Plus, it's my ruling planet.

    Igor (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:25:05 PM EST
    i just saw Igor.

    It was very good.  I don't usually watch or recommend animated movies.  In spite of, or perhaps because of, the fact that I made them for years.  But I was channel surfing and it grabbed me.  Surprised to see very low ratings and reviews.  Then not so much.   The reasons I liked it no doubt the reasons they did not.  
    Summed up by the closing scene of a chorus of blind orphans singing "I can see clearly now".
    Whatta cast.  John Cusac, John Cleese, Steve Buscimi, Eddie Izzard, Molly Shannon, Jay Leno, Christian Slater, Arsenio Hall, James Lipton.????

    Is child abuse an FAA problem? (none / 0) (#19)
    by Tim Kern on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:42:23 PM EST
    A 33-year-old commercial-rated pilot severely overloaded his airplane, didn't secure the load, and also had the load too far aft (which doesn't just break man's laws, but also the laws of physics). Then he put his 4-year-old son on his wife's lap in the front seat. She was wearing a seat belt, but the toddler was unrestrained.

    The pilot then duplicated the feat directly behind him, with his 2-year-old son on the lap of his then-16-year-old babysitter.

    [Note: FAA regs require everyone who has achieved his 2nd birthday to be belted. Even in the case of an infant, the baby must be held by "an adult."]

    According to the NTSB and his own testimony, he also set the flaps incorrectly, a rookie error that is inexplicable in the case of a commercial-rated pilot flying his own airplane.

    Who could predict that he'd just barely get into the air and would crash less than a mile from the runway, killing the 4-year-old and causing terrible injuries to everyone else aboard in the fiery crash?

    Question: should the father (the Pilot in Command, in formal terms) be charged with

    1. child abuse resulting in death
    2. reckless endangerment
    3. negligent manslaughter, or
    4. something else?

    The FAA suspended his license for one year. He's flying again.

    There have been no criminal charges filed, though the accident occurred in 2010. Whaaa???

    The pilot's conduct and negligence ... (none / 0) (#27)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:54:58 PM EST
    ... needs to rise to the level of criminal, for there to be an indictment and prosecution. It's one thing to give public voice to a claim of reckless endangerment, as you're obviously doing. But it's often another thing entirely for a prosecuting attorney to subsequently have to prove it in criminal court beyond a reasonable doubt.

    That's probably why they was no criminal prosecution in this case. But as it stands, that pilot and his wife will have to live the rest of their lives with the knowledge that their failures to take adequate and necessary pre-flight precautions undoubtedly contributed to the death of their young son. And that, in and of itself, can be its own very special brand of hell.



    Julia Pierson resigns. (none / 0) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:43:17 PM EST
    That's good. Maybe now there can be some fundamental and meaningful reform of the ongoing manner in which the Secret Service has been doing its job, which has very much sucked of late.

    I was pretty stunned (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:49:02 PM EST
    after the "hearing" yesterday that the White House line was still the standard "we have full confidence in blah blah"

    For her it was resign or change her last name to piñata.


    Sometimes I get the feeling (none / 0) (#29)
    by Slado on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:01:31 PM EST
    this administration would rather have people stay on then have it look like they've succumbed to public pressure.

    Time and again, no matter how big the screw up they stand behind a person and then later after the media uproar has died down show them the door.


    When feeling besieged, circling the wagons is a natural political instinct which is inherently nonpartisan. The Bush administration did the exact same thing, defending their personnel in public while privately working to hustle them out the back door when they think nobody's looking. (See "Rumsfeld, Donald" and "Tenet, George."). So have other prior administrations over the decades. (See "Schlesinger, James" and "Watt, James.")

    I have t agree with you. (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:08:36 PM EST
    there have been a few "heckuvajob" moments.

    Did Ms. Pierson (none / 0) (#24)
    by KeysDan on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:50:38 PM EST
    resign to spend more time mending fences and opening doors?  By hooker or crook, the Secret Service needs a revamping.

    Puzzling. (none / 0) (#63)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:30:33 PM EST
    While the only recourse for Ms. Pierson was resignation--and I'm relieved that the leadership dilemma was resolved fairly quickly--the whole thing is beyond puzzling.  Using the time-honored phrase "totality of the circumstances" (which I see that Pierson employed in yesterday's hearing) only raises more questions for me and some questioning friends with whom I have spoken.

    In brief:  The circumstances in the 2011 shots-fired-into-the-WH incident coupled with the lackadaisical chase/response to the WH lawn/East Room & Green Room situation looks like a broader mess than supervision.  Now, we have the convict-in-the-elevator incident as well.  I want to shout "What is wrong with the Service?  What is wrong with the elite group that used to be synonymous with top-notch give-it-your-all performance?"  The Secret Service was justifiably regarded as the cream-of-the-crop; and, now, they can barely waltz across the lawn and into the building to catch the guy?  

    Heck, when I attended a reception in the East Room in the mid-90s, the security was so extensive that you almost were afraid to sneeze for setting off some hidden alarm.  Who is guarding the President these days ... you know, these days when a Congressman from my state of Colorado (Rep. Lamborn of Colo Sprgs) even has the nerve to mention at a recent fundraiser for himself that he & other (unnamed) Congressmen have been talking with Generals lately & indicating that Generals who disagree with their Commander-in-Chief might make a splash by staging a mass resignation ... yea, what the h!*l is going on?  (BTW, when I read about the latest on TPM, a cartoon was reprinted underneath from the Boston Herald wherein the President is portrayed brushing his teeth while being asked if he has tried the new watermelon toothpaste.  A major paper ..., yep, that paper ran the cartoon.)

    So, I'm ranting ... ranting with some of my old government employee colleagues ... and dumbfounded with disgust that these Service agents make the Ferguson police bunch almost appear competent.  Yet, I hear today that a retired Service officer is suggesting via WP Op-Ed Alan West (yes, West--the right-wing loon from Florida) as a possible replacement for the Director.

    What is going on?  Who is protecting our President and his family?  How come the would-be protectors suddenly look like amateurs?  What am I missing?


    Politico (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:40:59 PM EST
    Agents tell me it's a miracle an assassination has not already occurred. Sadly, given Obama's colossal lack of management judgment, that calamity may be the only catalyst that will reform the Secret Service.

    John Marshall writes:

    Read that a few times. So Obama is at fault for his inevitable assassination, or he's the only thing standing in the way of cleaning up the agency responsible for his inevitable assassination.There's a lot packed into that two sentence flourish. But all of it is deeply f'd up. I really wonder what the Politico editors were thinking.



    Thanks for the link, Capt. (none / 0) (#86)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:01:02 PM EST
    I'm still fuming. My husband, sort of kiddingly, told me to calm down, don't obsess, and all that.  Normally, that is what I would do. But, da@n, Howdy ... it really is about something very dangerous.  I'm not one for "conspiracy theories" and I'm not prepared to go there ... yet, it sure stinks.  The whole atmosphere; the whole thing.  What else to say other than it feels as if this whole area is playing with fire.

    Tonight's solution: Wine, food, and blank-out-the-mind TV.  The latter, for me, means an old favorite ... ta da! Survivor (even after all these years, because it still reminds me of my longtime work atmosphere.)  I've been a Survivor fan since the beginning.


    Good solution (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:12:36 PM EST
    I'm just hearing that 1) the president didn't know about the armed contractor on the elevator until the media did and 2) she did not reveal that not only at the open hearing but at the top secret closed hearing either.


    That, they say, was the last straw.  I guess it's good t know there IS a limit.


    It really is enough to raise some suspicions (none / 0) (#117)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 09:38:53 PM EST
    I'm not the conspiracy suspicion type either, but something is really screwed up there. I don't see how she could have justified staying in her job. I would think that keeping the front door and hallway guarded is SS 101.  Not to mention checking people for guns if they are anywhere near the president. I have to believe it was strongly hinted to her to resign.

    I still relax with Survivor too...it was a long week so far, got through a stressful meeting yesterday.  I do like the way this tribe dealt with threats of the immunity idol - call the bluff and vote them out.  I have been frustrated the last few seasons where no one dares challenge someone they suspect has an idol. I did like the person voted out tonight though and would rather have seen the other one go.   I think it is an interesting season so far.


    On relaxing & Survivor (none / 0) (#121)
    by christinep on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 10:00:35 PM EST
    There is a place for the bluff; and, I also enjoyed this time that the bluff was called.  Yet, I liked Val too.  It does take me a few weeks each season to get into the individual members ... tho, from a projection standpoint, I tend to secretly (or not so secretly)have a soft spot for the "older" players for starters.

    And really, she should have found the idol (none / 0) (#161)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:00:55 AM EST
    She had the clue, right, from when she was at exile? No excuse when it was that easy to find.

    I like the two "old" men this time...I was laughing when they were calling the one guy old and he is 50. Ha!


    Honestly, I find it very suspicious. (none / 0) (#123)
    by vml68 on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 10:19:02 PM EST
    When Obama was visiting Centcom recently, the hotel he stayed at was right by the spouse's office. They were all given notice that there would be heavy security and that people parking in the surrounding garages would have their vehicles searched.
    If they are so careful with people who are not going to be anywhere near him, how is it possible that they are not checking the people standing right next to him? Very strange!

    Heh...Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan (none / 0) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:27:43 PM EST
    Whole Middle East, CentCom, replace Holder, walk the dogs, exercise, Obamacare glitches, call the CDC back, write today's to do list out for the Secret Service before the idiots get me assassinated......Oh Shit, I just saluted with a latte :)

    Oops (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:40:00 PM EST
    but funny!

    Oh (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:48:51 PM EST
    And it would be Abu Bakr al Baghdadi before it would be Alan West.  IMO

    School Girl Jihadi's (none / 0) (#26)
    by Slado on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 02:54:10 PM EST
    This is disturbing.

    Western girls/women head to Syria to join ISIS.

    Holy krap (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:07:38 PM EST
    Karim Pakzad, of the French Institute of International and Strategic Relations, said some young women had "an almost romantic idea of war and warriors.

    "There's a certain fascination even with the head and throat-cutting. It's an adventure." Some may feel more respected and important than in their home countries, he added.

    Right above the pic of a beautiful young girl who has been writing "I love al-Qaida" around her school.


    Okay, so it's disturbing. (none / 0) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:21:27 PM EST
    What do you propose we do about it? In Western societies, people are free to make their own decisions regarding the conduct of their own lives. And last I saw, there's no standing rule which prohibits them from making some remarkably foolish personal choices.

    I would further agree that this story is sad, because it undoubtedly portends a potential tragedy in the making for some of these young women and their families. But that said, I'm at a point in my life where I must resist the urge to despair about matters over which I have little or no control. This is one of them.



    Most disturbing (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:28:06 PM EST
    is that there is nothing we can do.  But that is an amazing story.  I get teenaged revolution but ....

    One thing. We, the west, have to ask ourselves what we have done to make them even consider such a choice.  How could they possibly hate us that much.   And is there anything we can ever do to fix it.  Clearly some of those young women were quite clear eyed in the choice.  Romance aside.


    Why do some women (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:35:19 PM EST
    Write to and marry hard-time convicts? To me, this story is as amazing as someone wanting to marry Eric Menendez or Scott Peterson.

    Speaking of some women's amazing choices, ... (none / 0) (#44)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:39:32 PM EST
    ... convicted killer Joran Van Der Sloot just became a father.

    Again (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:42:18 PM EST
    What is wrong with these women?



    It's not just women. (none / 0) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:00:07 PM EST
    I have a male cousin back in Illinois who became absolutely infatuated with a beautiful but very manipulative woman who likely did not really have his best interests at heart. To make a long story short, she talked him into breaking and entering into a warehouse where she said some of her things were being kept, there as a confrontation with security, a car chase with guns drawn, and my cousin was lucky to get off with a fine and two years' probation.

    Well yes (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:42:05 PM EST
    Except that their motives do not generally involves killing others, it's exactly the same.

    Well, yes (none / 0) (#47)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:43:26 PM EST
    They become infatuated with and fall in love with and even marry those who kill others.

    And in some cases, would kill if the men asked them to.  See:  Manson family


    Did you even look at the article? (none / 0) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:45:56 PM EST
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:48:26 PM EST
    Your point? As usual, it's far off in never-never land.  Because my example wasn't EXACTLY like yours, you seem to have difficulty making the connection, yet Donald understood it.

    Inmates can be very needy, and some women (none / 0) (#118)
    by Peter G on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 09:46:45 PM EST
    get satisfaction from being needed.  Coupled with the attraction to someone exotic, even seemingly dangerous, but who in fact is no threat to harm (or hardly even touch) you, certainly not sexually, unlike most men. That's what I have observed with some of my clients in such relationships, as best I can tell.

    Apparently (none / 0) (#43)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:37:05 PM EST
    something is lacking but the article gives no insight into what that is. It's probably a combination of a lot of things.

    Obviously (none / 0) (#60)
    by Slado on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:18:37 PM EST
    but wouldn't most kids just start acting out?   Running with the wrong crowd, maybe run away from home.

    These girls not only left home but bought one way airplane tickets to a war zone.

    Something is different about the ideology or the sales pitch that make what appear to be otherwise normal kids drop it all to become jihadi's.



    I had just taken and aced the USASVAB (U.S. Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery) during the summer just prior to my senior year in high school, and the smooth-talking recruiting sergeant knew exactly all the right buttons to push in order to get me to join up upon my graduation.

    Only my mother stood in the way of my immediate desires, and bless her heart, she did just that by refusing to sign off on my prospective enlistment when I presented her with what I thought was the opportunity of a lifetime. (I did not turn 18 until well after I commenced my freshman year in college.) And no amount of plaintive cajoling and angry outbursts by me would get her to budge from her position. She just told me that until I turned 18, it was her call and not mine, case closed, end of discussion. Privately, she was convinced that if she stood firm and waited me out, my interests would soon turn elsewhere, and in that she was proved correct.

    I would argue that ideology has little or nothing to do with it, because the successful recruitment of teenagers for whatever purpose you seek is predicated primarily upon a conscious appeal to a youth's sense of self and adventure. Teens may often present themselves to us as caustic and cynical, but behind that front they're wide-eyed and gullible creatures, and can be putty in the hands of a manipulative Svengali-type.



    They might (none / 0) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:16:17 PM EST
    have been acting out and we don't know it but for whatever reason young people have been attracted to cults forever it would seem. Like the example above Charles Manson knew how to get people to murder for him. Don't know what attraction these jihadists have for these girls either.

    To the extent that so many people ... (none / 0) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:49:17 PM EST
    ... are feeling increasingly alienated from the society in which they reside, yes, we can and should take some responsibility for the fact that they've often enjoy only very limited opportunities to thrive and prosper, thanks in no small part to the social Darwinism that's been practiced by the conservative governments we've elected throughout the West over the past three-plus decades.

    But honestly, I get the distinct impression that the people who are complaining the loudest about Western jihadists really aren't really very interested in having that particular discussion.



    I get that (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:57:20 PM EST
    But that aside, i am.  Hope you get that as well.

    Quickly adding (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:59:50 PM EST
    not taking sides.  I like you both.  But I get it.

    What I found most disturbing (none / 0) (#57)
    by Slado on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:16:18 PM EST
    was that these were girls.

    Teenage girls who not just rebelled, but got on airplanes and ran away from what seemed like pretty normal lives to a war zone.

    There is something about radical Islamic ideology that so entrances young men and now even women that they leave their entire life behind.  

    It's not enough to dress in grunge, hang out with the wrong people or do drugs and drink.

    No they reject their entire way of life, family and everyone they know and associate with to run off and join a group of murdering psychopaths.

    Just find it amazing.


    Teenagers are clearly not well versed at ... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:48:56 PM EST
    ... practicing sound judgment, in part because the frontal lobes of their brains -- where our cognitive functions reside -- do not fully develop until about age 20 or so.

    Thus, because teens don't yet possess the mental capacity to learn and understand the adult practice of situational rationalization, they're altogether quite literal in their understanding of the world. Our ability to rationalize adult behavior and choices further grows proportionally with the accumulation of our own respective life's experiences, which is also something that teenagers often lack by virtue of their youth.

    That's why teens are so quick to note the obvious hypocrisies offered by the adults who surround them in their daily lives, while we tend to rationalize and overlook such contradictions out of our own sense of decorum and convenience. Further, when facing circumstances which are beyond their ability to fully process intellectually, teenagers are often prone to emotional reactions / outbursts and impulsive behavior, out of personal frustration.

    That's why adolescence can be such a trying time and searing experience, for both teenagers and their parents. And that's also why I find it sad that some of these young men and women are making the choices they make, but not necessarily all that surprising.



    what makes people (none / 0) (#64)
    by CST on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:34:40 PM EST
    join the US military?

    I'm not saying they are the same thing, but lots of people run away from their lives to go to a war zone and we consider it completely normal.

    I also think that leaving their entire life behind is kind of the point for a lot of them.

    Not that I would ever join ISIS, but I can certainly see the appeal of going "Into the Wild" so to speak and leaving everything behind to do something radically different with my life.  Combine that personality trait with the personality trait that makes someone want to join the military and all of a sudden you have a realistic route to this scenario.


    That's scary (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:43:55 PM EST
     because it makes sense

    Pruitt v. Burwell (none / 0) (#42)
    by ragebot on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 03:36:47 PM EST
    Pruitt v. Burwell

    Looking like this will get to the SC sooner than later.

    Welcome to my neighborhood (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:18:55 PM EST
    The owner of a Hot Springs, Arkansas declared her business to be a "Muslim Free Zone" this week after she was spooked by an "Allahu Akbar" ringtone one of her Muslim customers had on his phone.

    In a post on her web site, Gun Cave Shooting Range owner Jan Morgan said that she had to ban all Muslims because of the offending ringtone - and because of her own twisted presuppositions and assumptions about Muslims in general.

    This is not a coffee and donut shop. This is a live fire indoor shooting range. People come here to buy, rent, and shoot lethal weapons," she explained. "In the range, people are shooting guns in close proximity to each other, so my patrons depend on me and my discretion regarding who I allow to shoot beside them."

    You have to see the picture
    She looks like Elvira with assault weapons.

    I bet she is still not a Bill Maher fan.

    On the subject of (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:26:12 PM EST
    what did we do to make them hate us so......
    I'm lookin at you Elvira.

    The real Elvira would not be amused. (none / 0) (#130)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 03:13:23 AM EST
    Cassandra Peterson (Elvira's real-life alter ego) is a committed liberal, and it goes without saying that as Elvira, she's a much sought-after guest for gay pride parades across the country.

    In St. Louis County election campaign news (none / 0) (#68)
    by Palli on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:47:41 PM EST

    Black Democratic Coalition endorses Republican Rick Stream for County Prosecuting Attorney. The legendary civil rights hero says the St. Louis County Democratic Party has ignored AA elected officials in county.  
    (McCollough and Stream are even in the polls now.)

    Now I bet McCollough will make a political "October Surprise" and bring out the Grand Jury. Today they are rumors that sicken me.
    Maybe all you pessimistic folk here at Talkleft
    are right.

    Dont imagine we are happy (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:50:48 PM EST
    about that.   If so.

    No, I am certainly not thinking (none / 0) (#75)
    by Palli on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 05:17:49 PM EST
    you are any happier than I am.
    But misery wants company or sympathy.

    I hear you (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 05:27:20 PM EST
    you got it

    Slight correction needed in your post (none / 0) (#74)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 05:16:29 PM EST
    Rick Stream is running for County Executive of St. Louis County. This action is not at all surprising. It is something that I thought would happen. During the last election the Democrats only held the position of County Executive because of the AA vote.

    A little background:

    Steve Stenger defeated the incumbent, Charlie Dooley in the primary. Stenger is white and Dooley is black. In MO you do not have to declare by party and every Republican I know crossed over to vote for Stenger, the Democratic candidate. It was the surest way to elect a Republican to the office.

    Also, this is a well known fact about Stenger:

    Stenger, a white Democrat, beat incumbent Charlie Dooley, an African American, in the August primary. During his campaign, Stenger touted the support of St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch. McCulloch, who is leading one of the investigations into Darren Wilson, the police officer who shot and killed Brown, has faced criticism of his objectivity and repeated calls to step aside.
    State Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal, a Democrat who represents Ferguson in the General Assembly, said Black residents are telling her they are "tired of the status quo" within the Democratic Party.

    "This is organic," she said. "People on the ground -- and I am every single day -- they're just like, `I'm not voting for Bob McCulloch or anybody who supports him."


    MOBlue, is this a game changer? (none / 0) (#77)
    by Palli on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 05:27:09 PM EST
    Could McCulloch lose without the AA vote in Nov. or would it bring out more Euro American voters?

    McCulloch can't lose (none / 0) (#81)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 05:48:31 PM EST
    He is running unopposed.

    McCulloch's tenure is likely the chief reason he has no Republican opponent this fall.

    Steve Stenger, the Democratic candidate for County Executive, could very well lose without the AA vote. I personally don't think he has a chance in he!! of getting their vote or winning without it. I think this comment captures the feeling of the AA community fairly well.

    "This is organic," she said. "People on the ground -- and I am every single day -- they're just like, `I'm not voting for Bob McCulloch or anybody who supports him."

    Thank you, I knew that weeks ago but forgot (none / 0) (#111)
    by Palli on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 08:36:24 PM EST
    after seeing the announcement from the Fanny Lou Hamer organization about endorsing a Republican.  

    Information in local paper (none / 0) (#131)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 05:36:12 AM EST
    regarding AA leaders coming out for Republican candidate.

    "You have a group of individuals who are playing politics and unfortunately they're playing politics really against the best interests of their community," says Stenger, who says he still stands behind McCulloch and his record on the county council when it comes to his work with all parts of St. Louis County.

    KSDK political analyst Dave Robertson says for the group to have an impact on the election it will have to be a close race to begin with. Stenger had more votes in the primary than Charlie Dooley and Rick Stream combined.

    Robertson, the political analyst, seems to think Stenger can win without the black vote. While I agree about the volume that Stenger received in the primary, I doubt people are fracturing in the Republican crossover votes. Republicans came out strong for Stenger in the primary to unseat Dooley. Are they going to vote Democratic in the November? I will be shocked if they do. In the last election for County Executive, the Republican was winning until the districts in the AA community came in. Guess we will see.

    Regardless, I personally believe that Stenger's comment above was unnecessarily  tone deaf and stupid.


    New Developments in Brown Grand Jury (none / 0) (#82)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 06:41:29 PM EST
    Grand jury considering the Ferguson shooting is being investigated for misconduct

    In one of those messages, a person tweeted that they are friends with a member of the jury who doesn't believe there is enough evidence to warrant an arrest of the officer, Darren Wilson.

    The same person who tweeted about being friends with a member of the jury has also tweeted messages of support for Wilson. link

    Start over with a new group?? (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 06:45:03 PM EST
    question, could this be a delaying tactic?    Leak this information to further delay any action in the hope they will wear people down?

    If a member of the current grand jury (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 08:20:48 PM EST
    communicating to persons not n that gj his or her opinion as to whether or not the gj should indict Officer Wilson, the judge should remove that grand juror and examine the remaining grand jurors under oath to determine if anyone else can no longer be fair and impartial.  

    Oath: (none / 0) (#108)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 08:25:48 PM EST

    540.080. Grand jurors may be sworn in the following form:

    Do you solemnly swear you will diligently inquire and true presentment make, according to your charge, of all offenses against the laws of the state committed or triable in this county of which you have or can obtain legal evidence; the counsel of your state, your fellows and your own, you shall truly keep secret? You further swear that you will present no one for any hatred, malice or ill will; neither will you leave unpresented any one for love, fear, favor or affection, or for any reward or the hope or promise thereof, but that you will present things truly as they come to your knowledge, to the best of your understanding, according to the laws of this state, so help you God.


    Excerpt fro NYT article: (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 09:04:05 PM EST
    "If a grand juror has leaked details of the proceedings, the case could continue with the current jury," said Peter A. Joy, a professor at Washington University law school in St. Louis.
    "If something like that is proven, then the most likely result would be that that grand juror would be removed from the grand jury," he said. "You don't need unanimity for them to make a decision for them to indict or not indict. If somebody was removed, the other 11 would continue deliberating, and then they would reach a decision."

    Grand Jury Leak (none / 0) (#119)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 09:49:02 PM EST
    More here:

    Apparently the report of the leak came from a Shaun King and it is being taken seriously:

    Grand jury considering the Ferguson shooting is being investigated for misconduct

    I"m just curious why the Prosecuting Attorney's Office didn't take seriously or attempt to investigate last week's leak that Darren Wilson testified for 4 hours before the Grand Jury, but they are taking this one seriously.

    Are some leaks more serious than others???  


    How do you know Mr. McCulloch's office (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 10:21:34 PM EST
    did not investigate or take seriously?  

    The same way (none / 0) (#133)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 07:30:13 AM EST
    People seem to know how the prosecutor is handling the presentation to the GJ.

    True jb (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 07:50:02 AM EST
    "Seem to know" is equivalent to "think they know". Both are excellent replacement terms for "haven't got a clue".

    But "haven't got a clue" doesn't make for good blog blather.


    Well (none / 0) (#137)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 08:23:20 AM EST
    McCulloch's Office reacted to immediately to this "leak" and claimed that they were going to investigate, even though it was a mere Tweet on Twitter -- not exactly the Post Dispatch.

    And yet when the Post Dispatch claims  that Wilson testified before the GJ, there is no reaction from his office at all -- no corroboration, no denial, no statement that it is under investigation, nothing on that leak from his office.

    That's why no one trusts the process.


    "No one trusts the process" (none / 0) (#138)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 08:36:18 AM EST
    A generic all-inclusive term for "I don't trust the process".

    Frankly (none / 0) (#139)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 08:42:03 AM EST
    At this point, I absolutely believe they WILL indict him, regardless of whether or not the actual evidence shows anything, because the jurors also live in the area and know there will be repercussions if he is not indicted.

    It doesn't matter if he is indicted or not - there will be people who don't trust the process for a variety of reasons (racism, protecting cops, giving in in to public pressure and making him a scapegoat, whatever). The DA is in a no-win situation here

    But anyone who claims they actually know what is actually being presented and how it is actually is proceeding within the confines of the GJ room is just talking out of their butts, because as Coral Gables said above, "You have no clue."


    Well evidently you don't (none / 0) (#142)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 08:55:40 AM EST
    trust  the process either if youn absolutely believe that they will indict him regardless of the evidence.

    As to the jurors living in the area, St. Louis County is a very large area. If you think that people living in South or West county ( Fox News County) are particurly worried about repercussions especially those occurring in North County, you know little or nothing about the area.


    I don't have to live there (none / 0) (#144)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:09:27 AM EST
    I want to trust the process, but in this case, no, I don't.  The country wants Wilson's blood, and I think they are going to get it.  Does he deserve it?  I don't know - it sure seems like it with what has been reported so far, but what has been reported so far isn't necessarily all the evidence (or even evidence at all, but mere speculation).

    But what is funny to me is all the self-proclaimed liberals who scream about due process and "Innocent until proven guilty" who certainly like to speak authoritatively on Wilson's guilt and what is going on the GJ room.  

    So, yeah, I stand by my comment.  I think he's going to be indicted.  That doesn't mean I think the panel went in there with their minds made up - but I think the external repercussions of a no-bill (especially if and when their names get released) will be weighing on the back of their minds.


    Oh dear gawd (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:12:55 AM EST
    The county, St. Louis County, that will determine his fate is definitely not out for his blood. St. Louis County is primarily white and just brim full of law and order conservatives who believe that a black man is guilty prior to any evidence being presented. According to law and order conservatives they are thugs or as McCulloch has said "just bums" who deserve being killed by the police.

    Your whole premise that the whole country is out for his blood is just non evidence based fantasy. Not one national poll conducted on this issue has anything close to a majority wanting Wilson to go to trial let alone wanting his blood. As to your theory that jurors will indict rather than deal with the ramifications of not doing so, please provide St. Louis based historical data to back up your claim. A link to even one indictment of a white police officer who killed a black person here in St. Louis County would suffice.

    What many of us want is a fair hearing not one where the prosecutor has manipulated the GJ into delivering a no bill. McCulloch has done this in the past and many of us believe he is doing it again.


    Funny (none / 0) (#185)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 11:21:21 AM EST
    Your comments, along with many others here, seem to indicate that you want him indicted, tried, and found guilty no matter what.

    Hardly the idea of "wanting a fair hearing" (which again, you have no clue that the proceedings aren't fair, but are just merely speculating based on your own musings of what you think is going on).


    Put another way (none / 0) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 06:50:04 PM EST
    can they be that stupid?

    Personally I don't think so (none / 0) (#85)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:00:49 PM EST
    I am of the opinion that this GJ was primed to deliver a no bill. The police departments throughout North County seem pretty confident that no indictment is forthcoming and they are from all indications gearing up for a major confrontation with the AA community. If what I am hearing all around me is representative, they will have the support of the majority of the white residents.

    I would be surprised if the prosecutor's office takes any action on this. The account has been deleted and I believe that it will be presented as nothing to see here - lets move along.

    Hope I'm wrong.


    You know more about it than me (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:08:20 PM EST
    but it seems weird timing to hear this on the same day we hear the investigation is over.  

    Let's face it (none / 0) (#95)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:21:39 PM EST
    I probably don't have any more information regarding McCulloch's GJ strategy then you do. I just think that he had already fixed the deck to get what he wanted and did not need for this to happen.

    What I do have is information regarding what the North County Police Chiefs are telling residents at meetings when the audience is about 98% white. While not coming right out and saying it, they are indicating that they expect all he!! to break loose when the GJ comes back with a no bill and they are gearing up for it.

    I also belong to several different groups and organizations and what I am hearing from the white North County residents is extremely disturbing. A whole lot of how dare they do this and they deserve whatever they get. These sentiments are intermingled with statements of course this has nothing to do with race.


    The reason for the question (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:19:36 PM EST
    was all I'm hearing is about "gearing up" as you said.  On both sides.  I wondered if they are actually starting to worry a bit for the seven kinds of hell that by all accounts is coming with an acquittal.

    I don't think that they are particularly worried (none / 0) (#98)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:29:00 PM EST
    They are coming from the position of we are going to protect you (white residents) from these people (substitute another word for true meaning) and we have all the manpower and equipment to win this encounter. No problem if those people get killed because we all know they are thugs (or as McCulloch has been known to say, "bums") and deserve what they get.

    That's depressingly logical (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:35:50 PM EST
    i guess the only hope might be that if anything they might be a little worried about the Feds watching more closely than in the past.   The world too but I would be surprised if they cared about that.   The Feds ..... maybe.

    Well I hope I am being too cynical (none / 0) (#101)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:43:44 PM EST
    and have misinterpreted what I have heard around me.

    Really unhappy with the current toxic environment and it is becoming increasingly difficult to continue my activities (which I love). Having a hard time stomaching the comments around me and nothing I can say changes anything. Discounted or ignored big time.


    I have friends in the county (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:45:37 PM EST
    who have said the same.  

    To be clear (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 07:49:56 PM EST
    i am not saying I think it would be a good thing to impanel a new GJ and start over.   It would be a terrible thing to do to the community.

    This is a evil trap we have seen laid before (none / 0) (#116)
    by Palli on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 09:31:00 PM EST
    A dismantled GJ and a new one empaneled it would be preferable to white power overlooking this breach in GJ process (flawed as any St Louis County presentation might be) and creating a untenable position for the African American community that clearly requires a judicial process and, as commonly said, "their day in court".

    Once again the crimes of injustice by particular white people who are protected by white privilege and the wheels of government are trapping people into demonstrations that can so easily be named riot because of the overwhelming power of the establishment.

    Because what else is there?  

    Earlier in the day I had not taken seriously enough Shaun King's discovery of leaks in the GJ.  Now I am sure it is a trap. Many of you warned me.

    MOBlue, those white acquaintances of yours are laughing. I am sorry you have to be among them. Last night's almost complete absence of outside law enforcement at FPD demonstration was a ruse.


    Just my personal opinion (none / 0) (#120)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 09:56:09 PM EST
    I don't think that this irregularity in the GJ was a trap. As oculus points out according to the rules they only have to remove the person involved in the leak.

    I do strongly believe that the prosecuting attorney's office conducted the GJ procedure in such a way as to insure that there will be no indictment. As the saying goes, a prosecutor can get a GJ to indict a ham sandwich. The opposite is also true, a prosecutor can structure the proceedings in such a way  so that they will not indict.

    Don't think my acquaintances will be laughing so much as smug in their belief that Brown got what was coming to him. IOW, the GJ said so by not indicting him.


    But when the white power comes down (none / 0) (#125)
    by Palli on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 10:37:23 PM EST
    it won't be in your white friends neighborhood.  They'll be laughing because they are insulated from the consequences of a rigged government and judicial system. Their privilege and power can't empathize.  It is a sickness of the soul.

    i wish you weren't among them.  Did I read on a thread that you are ill?  I am so sorry that this is all coming down in you world now when you should be focused on replenishing yourself.


    Our neighborhood is adjacent to Ferguson (none / 0) (#127)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 11:23:07 PM EST
      is very possible that this will spill over into our neighborhood which is predominantly a lower middle class city. We may well see military type equipment rolling down our streets.

    While they are unable or unwilling to empathize, they may well be negatively impacted by this whole thing.

    Our neighborhoods are racially mixed and we have an aging population. Prior to the events in Ferguson, some of the older residents were being pressured to move out of their homes by their families due to the influx of more black people. Can't be safe in a mixed neighborhood don't you know. This pressure has increased significantly.  People don't want to leave their homes. Whatever wealth they have is primarily tied up in their homes and they are extremely worried that their homes may become worthless. A lot of their behavior is because they are frightened and they need to blame someone. It is always easier to blame someone lower down on the ladder than to blame the ones with all the power especially if they are part of your tribe.

    Not excusing their prejudices or their reasoning but I can be somewhat empathic to them also. Too often frightened people are stupid people  Stupid seems to be epidemic in this county.


    Understood (none / 0) (#129)
    by Palli on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 12:05:37 AM EST
    white fear, white flight, blame game...

    Our people have failed at humanity on so many levels.
    It is a fallacy that people root for the underdog. Who really believes what you do to another you do onto me?

    It is so strange that if those tanks roll down the street (at 2 miles a gallon and damaging road surface, I might add, at taxpayers expense) the blame is screamed at the victims who have been shot and humiliated on their own streets in front of their own houses for years.
    That any African American or Native American believes in America is a tribute to a faith & hope deeper than our culture deserves.


    Jason Leopold's article (none / 0) (#143)
    by Palli on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 08:57:48 AM EST

    A professional rules of conduct are there-words on paper.
    Factual police conduct has been defying it for years.


    So you are saying regardless of what (none / 0) (#155)
    by leftwig on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:48:54 AM EST
    evidence exists or is presented, "seven kinds of hell" are coming if there if the GJ doesn't indict?

    Picture in your mind (3.67 / 3) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:57:29 AM EST
    a place where some cares what you think.

    Now go there.


    Picture in your mind (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:13:22 AM EST
    a place where someone cares about your troll ratings....

    So you don't care to clarify your (none / 0) (#172)
    by leftwig on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:33:35 AM EST
    comments that you expect "seven kinds of Hell" are coming if the GJ doesn't indict?  Does the evidence matter in what the reponse will be or doesn't it?  

    No (none / 0) (#176)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:47:33 AM EST
    any other questions?

    2nd day (none / 0) (#72)
    by lentinel on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 04:58:28 PM EST
    The war in which we are engaged in - the one with ISIS - has left the front pages for another day.

    This is the way they do it.

    A war.
    Our people involved.
    Our soldiers.
    Our money. Lots of it - near a billion so far.

    And no opposition.

    No coverage.

    They get to do what they want, and it's out of sight - and so it is out of mind.

    Ferguson/Brown investigation completed. (none / 0) (#80)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 05:35:10 PM EST
    (CNN) -- The investigation into the controversial shooting death of unarmed teenager Michael Brown by a police officer in a St. Louis suburb has been completed, the St. Louis County prosecutor's office said Wednesday.


    "The investigation has been basically completed that is being conducted by both the FBI and St. Louis County PD," Ed Magee, the spokesman for the prosecutor's office, told CNN.

    Something to sleep on (none / 0) (#122)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 10:18:05 PM EST
    Wait -- You can have Ebola and still board a plane

    So how are countries keeping suspected Ebola patients (well, most of them, anyway) contained within their borders?

    Thermometers, mostly.

    People are screened for elevated temperatures before they're allowed to board planes departing from the countries where Ebola is raging.

    Fever is one of the earliest symptoms of Ebola, but people can be infected for between two and 21 days without showing signs of illness....

    Here is a link to some fairly (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 07:05:57 AM EST
    comprehensive information on how one can - and can't - get Ebola.

    We keep hearing that it's not an airborne virus.  That being said,

    the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said,
    "If a symptomatic patient with Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone, and saliva or mucus come into contact with that person's eyes, nose or mouth, these fluids may transmit the disease."
    This happens rarely and usually only affects health workers or those caring for the sick.

    Also to be noted, from the original link:

    As you'll probably have noted, Ebola isn't very easy to transmit. The scenarios under which it spreads are very specific. And Ebola doesn't spread quickly, either. A mathematical epidemiologist who studies Ebola wrote in the Washington Post, "The good news is that Ebola has a lower reproductive rate than measles in the pre-vaccination days or the Spanish flu." He found that each Ebola case produces between 1.3 and 1.8 secondary cases. That means an Ebola victim usually only infects about one other person. Compare that with measles, which creates 17 secondary cases.

    If you do the math, that means a single case in the US could lead to one or two others, but since we have robust public health measures here, it probably won't go further than that.

    Since the original, let's-take-your-temperature-before-you-get-on-the-plane seems to have failed - mainly because with an incubation period of from 2 to 21 days, there's a big window within which people may be not be symptomatic - I expect there to be some new travel protocols.

    But I really do not think there needs to be panic or hysteria over the fact that someone here in the US has the virus, but, true to form, the media is hyping the crap out of this and making people unnecessarily afraid.  With cold and flu season coming upon us, I can only imagine how many more people will be going to ERs in a panic because they fear they have Ebola - even if they've never left the country, don't know anyone who's been in that region and returned, etc.


    Restricting Air Travel (none / 0) (#141)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 08:51:36 AM EST
    Restricting air travel will make West Africa's humanitarian crisis worse:

    Travel restrictions make fighting Ebola much harder:

    Despite the fact that an infected passenger flew from Liberia to Dallas this month, that passenger, Duncan, was not sick -- and was therefore not contagious -- while he was traveling. And once people become symptomatic, they become very sick, very quickly.

    In this case, it is unlikely that a sick person could go 10 days without seeking medical care,  CDC Director Tom Frieden said on Tuesday.

    "At this point, there is zero risk of transmission on the flight," Frieden said. "The illness of Ebola would not have gone on for 10 days before diagnosis. He was checked for fever before getting on the flight, and there's no reason to think that anyone on the flight that he was on would be at risk."



    From your Don't Worry Be Happy cite: (none / 0) (#157)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:53:35 AM EST
    6) You can get Ebola through contact with an infected surface. Though Ebola is easily killed with disinfectants like bleach, if it isn't caught, it can live outside the body on, say, a doorknob or counter top, for several hours. In body fluids, like blood, the virus can survive for several days. So you'd need to touch an infected surface, and then put your hands in your mouth and eyes.

    Well, nothing to worry about then.  Nobody ever touches their mouth or eyes, even unconciously, over and over again in the course of a day.

    Two days after he was sent home from a Dallas hospital, Duncan was seen vomiting on the ground outside an apartment complex as he was bundled into an ambulance.

    Too bad for whatever small animals lapped this up, eh?

    I'll propose an alternative hypothesis to explain the putatively low infection rate.  Rational people run away in horror from infected people and infected regions. Who dies?  Loved ones & family members.  Those who stick by you in your hours of need.  Cruel irony.


    Why can't you accept the reason for (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:15:43 AM EST
    the low infection rate the fact that it just isn't that easy to get it?  

    By the way, you left out another group that "sticks by you in your hour of need:" health care workers.  Why aren't they dropping like flies?  Yeah, I'm sure they're wearing gloves and using a lot of disinfectant, but still - they spend all their time with Ebola-infected people and very few of them contract the virus.

    From the CDC:

    A person must have symptoms to spread Ebola to others. The ill person did not exhibit symptoms of Ebola during the flights from West Africa and CDC does not recommend that people on the same commercial airline flights undergo monitoring. The person reported developing symptoms five days after the return flight. CDC and public health officials in Texas are taking precautions to identify people who have had close personal contact with the ill person and health care professionals have been reminded to use meticulous infection control at all times.

    Already thought about it (none / 0) (#128)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 11:35:41 PM EST
    We have a traveler who flew here on Sept 20th. He went to the ER a few days later, they sent him home on the 24th and 3 days later returned and was isolated.A friend had called the CDC with his concerns because the hospital was not acting quickly enough.  I know that if it was my life and I had been exposed to the disease, I would be doing what I could to get to where I could get the best treatment. Having said that, I do have my suspicions regarding this particular case as when he came here, he was already infected. I wish him a complete recovery but I am also concerned of the spread of this most deadly disease. So yes, did give it a thought. Sorry, wish I was more perfect.

    he was already infected. (none / 0) (#140)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 08:46:43 AM EST
    Yep -- and he knew it -- that's why he got on a plane and came here.

    Article up on it at the Daily Mail

    He knew that he touched someone with Ebola and was going to come down with it and wanted to get to the US quickly where his best chances of survival were.

    Can anyone blame him???

    But in order to get on that plane he had to lie on his questionaire and conceal whatever symptoms he might have had.

    On the news last night they said that as long as your fever was below 101.5 then you were considered to be non-symptomatic and thus not contagious.

    Thus they are not screening out people who might be incubating Ebola -- just people who are  symptomatic and thus contagious at the point of boarding the plane.

    Who is to say that one's fever doesn't rise to 101.5 on his 12 hour flight on the plane, thus becoming symptomatic at 36000 feet, and thus becoming contagious to everyone else onboard at close contact.

    Are we crazy??? What is the CDC thinking??? What is Homeland Security thinking???


    Okay, just take a breath, will you? (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:22:06 AM EST
    You have to do more than "touch" someone in order to contract the virus, and even if you touched someone, you'd have to have an open cut or broken skin that got touched to even have a chance at getting the virus.

    I blame the media for a lot of this hysteria - they do love themselves a crisis, you know.

    Unless someone on a plane with symptoms was (1) a woman breastfeeding an infant (in which case, it would be the infant at risk, not anyone who happened to see the breastfeeding), (2) an individual deciding to join the Mile-High Club or french-kissing someone on the plane, (3) licking the open wounds of his or her fellow passengers, (4) vomiting on someone with an open cut or broken skin, (5) having his or her diarrhea tended to by someone with broken skin - the chances are almost nil that anyone on that plane was ever at risk.

    Now, I can't know for sure, but I'm guessing that anyone who got on a plane fearing he or she had been exposed to or was incubating Ebola would have gone out of his or her way to avoid ANY skin-to-skin or other close contact with ANYONE on the plane.

    Get a grip.  Or as Cher would say ("Moonstruck"), "Snap out of it!"


    I don't disagree (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:38:58 AM EST
    but what is amazing to me is that this guy comes from Liberia after being around Ebola, actually after carrying a dead person.  Comes here, gets sick, goes to the hospital and never mentions any off this to the examining doctors or nurses.  And probably worse they did not ask.  They send him home with antibiotics and a few days later he comes back very sick.

    Honestly that is pretty scary.  You can only hope that level of ineptitude will not be repeated.  It's tempting to say it won't be but its not like this had not been in the news before he visited the hospital the first time.


    Does anyone consider the low incidence (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:56:26 AM EST
    of health workers contracting the disease?  People who are spending all their time caring for people who definitely have the virus?

    Yes, they are observing infection controls, which is one reason they are not contracting the virus at the same rates as average people, but still - it is not as easy to get Ebola as people are hysterically believing it is.

    I don't really understand someone who believes he has been exposed, fears he may have the virus, and deciding to come here for treatment - but not communicating this to medical personnel.  

    Why on earth no one asked him, "have you been traveling in the last three weeks, and if so, what country or countries were you traveling in?"  Would he have lied about that?  I don't know - how did he expect to be helped if he didn't give them the information they needed to treat him?


    No mystery, there. (none / 0) (#162)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:01:06 AM EST
    It takes an incident like this to sensitize.

    In this case, media hysteria has a purpose after all.


    Get a grip??? (none / 0) (#171)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:32:50 AM EST
    This is how pandemics start.

    I remember 2 years ago when Ebola first began to come out of the mouths of those at the CDC.

    They said that it would never come to America -- that it would be isolated in Africa because of the CDC's superior screening abilities.

    Then slowly it happened and the CDC was part of that happening telling us how serious it was out of their mouths while at the same time telling us that there should be no restrictions on people from affected areas coming here.  

    Now we find out that they their screening process is a joke that screens out only contagious carriers of Ebola but not the incubating carriers of the Ebola.

    And the method they use is a thermometer to determine if someone has a fever -- the same  symptom that was just misinterpreted by healthcare professionals as nothing more than the flu.

    I'm not the one who needs to get a grip here.


    There is one thing we can do (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:54:57 AM EST
    if you have hair consider setting it on fire.

    That was a jest by the way (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:58:55 AM EST
    you don't actually want to do that.

    Maybe Too Late (none / 0) (#179)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 11:01:09 AM EST
    I just hope all the crazy (none / 0) (#180)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 11:04:57 AM EST
    Might....end the debate on whether or not we need a strong healthcare system for all or a profit driven pandemic creating piece of shit :)

    All you Conservatives, set your hair on fire please, and then let's talk.


    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 11:13:10 AM EST
    pretty funny that the first person Rick "Secession" Perry calls is the CDC.

    Don't worry everyone (none / 0) (#184)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 11:16:32 AM EST
    The Texas broke a$$ broke down broken healthcare system has got this :)

    What's that joke? Give Rick Perry an enema and you can bury him in a shoebox?


    Or -- (none / 0) (#186)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 11:30:24 AM EST
    we could don an Ebola protection suit, hop a Delta  flight to Atlanta, and protest CDC incompetence.

    Uh...yeah, you are. (none / 0) (#181)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 11:05:13 AM EST
    What is the deal with "slowly it happened?"  One person has come here and found to have become symptomatic after he arrived.  Two medical workers were transported here with the virus, were treated and are recovering.

    What part of "not contagious until symptomatic" do you not understand?  This isn't like chicken pox, where you are contagious for the three weeks before you break out.  And it's not like measles, which is airborne and where you are also contagious before you break out.

    In terms of how it is transmitted, it is more comparable  to HIV/AIDS or hepatitis - both contagious, but not easily contracted.  And those are viruses that are here in this country, have been for years, and yet, we're not all getting it by sitting next to each other on airplanes...

    I think you need to do a lot more research and reading on Ebola - and since you are not happy with the CDC, there are other sources that could perhaps help you get your hysteria under control.

    Honestly, you must be paralyzed with fear during flu season.  


    My temp is always low-screening? (none / 0) (#145)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:17:38 AM EST
    98.6 is normal. For me, 96.8 is normal. So. if I show up at 101.5. them I am running a fever of over 103. This has to be one of the worse ideas of a screening program that I have ever heard. And if I had a couple colas with tons of ice, lower yet.

    After the person was here from Liberia, knowing it was too late for him being infected, he still was exposed to children. This is a bad situation and I totally understand the desire to get to somewhere you can get decent treatment, but this potentially is as if a person strapped on the disease. We need more meds and quickly to help the spread of the disease here and in Africa.


    Just the opposite (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:41:17 AM EST
    i hover around 100.

    The Daily Mail article (none / 0) (#146)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:21:58 AM EST
    is here.

    CTE NFL (none / 0) (#126)
    by squeaky on Wed Oct 01, 2014 at 11:05:47 PM EST
    76 Out of 79 Deceased NFL Players Have Brain Disease

    As the NFL nears an end to its long-running legal battle over concussions, new data from the nation's largest brain bank focused on traumatic brain injury has found evidence of a degenerative brain disease in 76 of the 79 former players it's examined.

    The findings represent a more than twofold increase in the number of cases of chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE, that have been reported by the Department of Veterans Affairs' brain repository in Bedford, Mass.

    The size and speed of players today (none / 0) (#135)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 07:35:29 AM EST
    has obviously outgrown the ability of the brain to manage the hits taken in the game.

    That being said, the results reported in this study are horribly flawed with a deeply biased experiment group and no comparison statistics from other sports or occupations reported.

    Everyone that plays the sport of football knows the risks going in. Risk/Reward: it's a factor in everything we do.


    Nobody but a few NFL players get (none / 0) (#148)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:28:31 AM EST
    the reward, who pay a high price for careers that are on average, very short.  It is a sick and violent spectacle.

    Your point, that "Everyone that plays the sport of football knows the risks going in," is laughable.  The age groups, children and teenagers, can understand virtually nothing of risk.

    Fortunately for the world at large, the NFL disease hasn't had much success spreading beyond America's borders.


    "children and teenagers" (none / 0) (#149)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:38:28 AM EST
    Parents sign off on the risk/reward decisions until the child is of legal age.

    Lawsuits (none / 0) (#153)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:45:04 AM EST
    Patients with less advanced forms of the disease can suffer from mood disorders, such as depression and bouts of rage, while those with more severe cases can experience confusion, memory loss and advanced dementia.
    There is so much money on the table that even if everyone who has CTE, waives the $4m settlement, sues for $50mil and prevails, there will still be tons of money to keep the head banging going strong.

    It is quite odd is to see the shock and approbation heaped on by the public when one of these players, who more than likely has brain damage, exhibits symptoms, goes into a rage and hits someone.

    But within the confines of the stadium the brutality is cheered by adoring fans and well paid for.


    Injury Yes, Brain Damage, No (none / 0) (#156)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:52:22 AM EST
    Yes the study is hardly conclusive, and I imagine there is not a lot of incentive to rush to get 4 groups of 200 brains to examine and compare.

    Given that, I do not think that most players expected that they would get brain damage. And, despite the lack of conclusive evidence, I would be surprised if the results of this study do not wind up being conclusive.

    But in the end, you are correct. The players who make it to Pro Football, must love playing the game. And early death, brain damage and other injuries, are a small price to pay for living a life you feel your were born to live. Most people who live  long life do not wind up loving their job, and living their dream.


    It will be interesting to see how (none / 0) (#154)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:45:33 AM EST
    or if the numbers change for the better with regard to players who have had the benefit of the newer concussion protocols and better equipment.

    What's just so disgusting - and craven - is how long the league knew about the problem, how it actively put its own financial interests ahead of the health and well-being of the players, and that they did nothing until they were exposed and were pretty much forced to do something about it.  

    Seems to be pretty much the pattern of the NFL, sadly.


    And NFL TV viewership (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:59:14 AM EST
    is at an all-time high so far this season. If non-contact sports were all the rage we'd have Monday Night Badminton on ESPN.

    Note: Professional Badminton can be a wicked fast sport.


    How Republicans (none / 0) (#134)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 07:31:51 AM EST
    In the bullseye (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 09:40:29 AM EST
    for bad weather today.   Here's hoping the worst that will happen is a bunch of leaves will clutter up the yard I groomed yesterday.

    No comments on Tom DeLay's acquittal? (none / 0) (#163)
    by kramartini on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:05:20 AM EST
    Yesterday, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals affirmed Tom DeLay's acquittal, followed by the sound of crickets chirping...

    Crickets is all Tom DeLay is worth (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:11:39 AM EST
    It is hard to care about a small (none / 0) (#173)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:38:48 AM EST
    justice for someone who worked so hard bringing grave injustices to so many :)  It's just hard.  I can't care.  Who again?

    Syria/Iraq mess (none / 0) (#170)
    by Slado on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:23:30 AM EST
    I wish we'd get more reporting on what a "fantasy" arming moderates in Syria is.

    That ship has sailed, if it was ever even afloat.

    This "War" is a road to nowhere and now that we appear to be doing something as lentiel said it's moved off the front burner and we're all just supposed to be OK with a strategy of meaningless killing.

    What a mess.  

    Politics? (none / 0) (#174)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:39:24 AM EST
    It is always interesting when opposite sides of the aisle join forces, namely you and lentinel.  

    From my POV it appears that the main bond between you is disgust with Obama. When Bush was at the helm you were cheerleading all the meaningless killing, no?


    What do you make of this? (none / 0) (#182)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 11:11:33 AM EST

    In an ironic twist to the ongoing and controversial US bombing campaign in Syria, the so-called "moderate" Syrian rebels are telling the Western media that they too oppose US airstrikes in Syria and think the campaign will do more harm than good for their cause. The US-led bombing campaign recently hit grain silos and killed food workers making a bad situation worse and reminding many that US intervention in the Middle East rarely leads to anything other than increased suffering for everyone.

    Now members of the Free Syrian Army have told Foreign Policy that they want Washington to send its planes back home. Fighters and commanders in the FSA told FP that the US airstrikes were just providing political capital for ISIS and other Islamic groups that opposed the moderate rebels. ISIS could point to strikes on civilians as evidence that the US was a wicked power and that ISIS' jihad was just. The FSA rebels also feared the airstrikes would strengthen the Assad government.

    America's most plausible allies on the ground in Deir Ezzor, however, remain critical of the international effort. Foreign Policy interviewed six FSA commanders from the province who are currently exiled by the Islamic State and hiding out in southeastern Turkey. All of them were arrested at some point by the jihadist group; some were tortured. They all agree that the U.S. airstrikes in their home country are a bad idea.

    FSA fighters and commanders complained to Foreign Policy that they have received no increase in support since the international effort to combat the Islamic State began, despite promises from the Obama administration that the United States would begin supplying arms to the rebels. The FSA fighters also disparaged the airstrikes, saying they would mainly kill civilians and give the Assad regime a chance to gain ground.

    So...do we believe this, do we do anything about it?  


    I think if you read around (none / 0) (#175)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 02, 2014 at 10:42:34 AM EST
    You'd discover they are creating the moderates, in Saudi Arabia.  They are creating the moderate army leaders in Saudi Arabia as I type and then shipping them in.