home

Sunday Night Open Thread

The Olympics are closing tonight. I liked the women's gymnastics but really didn't care for the constant and annoying chatter by the female anchors, or the hyperventilating male anchors (on swimming) on NBC, so I didn't watch much else on that channel. The British announcers on the alternative NBC channel were much better, at least as to the soccer games and cycling.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Trump's Many Failures
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Thank goodness... (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by desertswine on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 10:16:49 PM EST
    no more sand volleyball for 4 years.

    So nice to see (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by JanaM on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:03:47 AM EST
    Claressa Shields take her back to back Gold in the middleweight boxing final. What an incredible narrative - if people haven't seen the film about her, T-Red, you can probably catch it on-line at the PBS website.

    Of course rather than show this woman's event the Olympic coverage was showing men's VOLLEYBALL on NBC.  Volleyball for crikes sake.

    I Enjoyed the Olympic Broadcast (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 10:35:00 AM EST
     I could've done without synchronized swimming, but I'm sure there are people who love that.  Just as some people would have preferred to see boxing, I loved the beach volleyball.

    The ribbon, hoop, ball, and baton (none / 0) (#37)
    by fishcamp on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 03:42:21 PM EST
    dancing was very strange.  It was also on during the men's mountain bike event.  That looked like a very demanding course, especially for the men after it had rained earlier.  Wonder what RepackRider thinks about the race.

    Parent
    Ahhhh, Rhythmic Gymnastics (none / 0) (#44)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 04:50:27 PM EST
    One of about 30 events I would eliminate from the Summer Games if I was ever appointed head of the IOC. (Most of those 30 would come from swimming)

    Parent
    The Summer Olympics (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 04:55:48 PM EST
    Every 4 years all the world's greatest athletes gather to witness a 7-day swim meet.

    Parent
    It was a little strange (none / 0) (#75)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 11:01:48 PM EST
    Wonder what RepackRider thinks about the race.

    They clearly don't have real mountains to work with.  The course was a concession to television coverage, a highly artificial lap course, a long way from what I consider the mountain bike experience.

    My mountain biking friends were pretty critical of the format, but the winner was definitely a tough guy who can ride a bike.

    Parent

    USA today artice suggests Brazilian security (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by McBain on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 11:24:43 AM EST
    guards might not have acted appropriately in US
    swimmer scandal.
    So far, most of the media coverage has focused on what the swimmers allegedly did wrong. This article looks at both sides...
    João Batista Damasceno, a Rio judge, does not discard the possibility that the guards' actions could be rightly interpreted as a robbery.
    "If they only asked for the amount of the damage, it may not be a robbery," Damasceno said in a message to USA TODAY Sports. "But if the amount taken is higher than the value of the damages, with the use of a weapon by the 'security,' this is robbery."

    Also, early reports of vandalism might have been exaggerated...

    At a news conference Thursday, Rio police chief Fernando Veloso characterized the athletes' actions at the gas station as vandalism. He said they also had broken a soap dispenser and mirror inside the restroom. Reports quickly grew that the Americans had trashed the restroom.

    A USA TODAY Sports videographer who visited the bathroom Thursday found no damage to soap dispensers and mirrors and said none of those items appeared to be new. Some media accounts suggested the men had broken down a door, which USA TODAY Sports also did not observe.



    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 04:00:06 PM EST
    The media jumped all over this to push the ugly american story.
    Which turned out to be false. They never entered the bathroom, urinated on a wall in the back of the building.
    Lochte, accidentally or on purpose, pulled down a sign.
    Guns were drawn and payment rendered. Above and beyond the costs.
    So where are these security guards, police, why hasn't the Brazilian government let them be interviewed.
    A drunken night need not have been blown up like this.
    Nor anyone pulled off a plane, nor having to pay a $11,000 bribe to leave the country.


    Parent
    You guys must be joking (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 11:57:27 AM EST
    The Conservative crew at Talkleft finding fault with rent a cops and cop wannabees? How can this be? Probably because they are brown rent a cops and brown cop wannabees :)

    Parent
    Maybe because... (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 12:18:37 PM EST
    nobody was shot and killed. They do like that.

    Parent
    Give it up. It's over (none / 0) (#10)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 11:26:36 AM EST
    For people who base their opinions (none / 0) (#12)
    by McBain on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 11:33:36 AM EST
    on rumors and limited information, this drama was over days ago. For others,  things are just getting started.  I don't really care about Lochte's endorsements.  I do care about the typical rush to judgement many people are prone to.

    Even if you're convinced Lochte  acted extremely inappropriately, what about the other swimmers?  Why did one swimmer pay/donate $11,000 to get his passport back when money was already handed over to cover the alleged vandalism?

    Parent

    What rush to judgment? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:34:54 PM EST
    Three of the four U.S. swimmers involved in this unfortunate and unnecessary incident have since admitted that Ryan Lochte's story was a complete fabrication, just as Brazilian authorities had claimed.

    As for Lochte himself, he's now reduced to channeling Sgt. Schultz on peppermint schnapps, telling Matt Lauer on Friday night that he was too drunk at the time to accurately remember what happened in those early morning hours.

    For your part, you're attempting to manufacture some sense of controversy simply for its own sake, when there's really nothing left here to discuss. There was no armed robbery.

    Rather, this was a likely (and pretty pathetic) attempt by an aging fratboy wunderkind to invoke his own warped sense of white privilege in a third world setting, by leveling a pretty shocking accusation via the gullible American media as a means to obscure some deplorable personal behavior.

    Only by doing so right in the middle of the Olympic Games, he instead called worldwide attention to himself and was subsequently exposed as a liar, when Brazilian authorities took very serious issue with his charges and pushed back aggressively his three hapless companions.

    That's how I see it, anyway. But, please, feel free to continue belaboring a waning scandal and spin away like any good tabloid, if that's your desire. Just be cognizant of the fact that you're not the sole arbiter of fact and truth here.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    The other swimmers didn't say (none / 0) (#50)
    by Green26 on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 06:58:31 PM EST
    Lochte's account was a "complete fabrication". In fact, the other swimmers and the video supported the basics of the story. Security guards, who were off duty prison guards and are considered to be in a similar category as police officers in Brazil, showed their badges, one or two drew guns, I think the video indicates that it was pointed at the swimmers, money was given by the swimmers, etc. The security guys didn't speak English. The swimmers didn't speak Portuguese. Depending on your view, Lochte either embellished or lied about some things, and omitted some things. He was stupid and probably a jerk, but the media, as it often does, went running too far in the wrong direction.

    Also, the video mysteriously has several missing minutes, or at least the version I saw early on did.

    Parent

    As far as I'm concerned, the matter has been resolved and I see absolutely no point in further belaboring its minutiae. There was no armed robbery, period. And this is my final comment on the subject.

    Parent
    With a judge in Rio saying this, (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Green26 on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 11:39:25 PM EST
    I find ti interesting that you know there was no armed robbery.

    "João Batista Damasceno, a Rio judge, does not discard the possibility that the guards' actions could be rightly interpreted as a robbery.
    "If they only asked for the amount of the damage, it may not be a robbery," Damasceno said in a message to USA TODAY Sports. "But if the amount taken is higher than the value of the damages, with the use of a weapon by the 'security,' this is robbery."

    Another poster posted this above.

    In any event, if armed security people carry and draw guns, no one speaks the same language, and money is demanded or taken, it's not hard for me to think that the swimmers might have thought they were being robbed. Especially if the only damage they did was knocking over a sign, if that was the case.

    Paying over $10,000 so as not be charged, and to get one's passport back, seems like robbery to me.

    Parent

    It would be interesting to see the missing footage (none / 0) (#69)
    by McBain on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 09:04:11 PM EST
    but I get the sense both sides of this saga just want the whole thing to go away.  As always, I'd love to see good documentary about these events.

    Parent
    So is the curious incident of (none / 0) (#78)
    by oculus on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 12:05:54 AM EST
    he who shall not be named.

    Parent
    Former Gov Ed Rendell (D,PA), (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 11:59:48 AM EST
    a Clinton supporter, has suggested that the Clinton Foundation be disbanded when Mrs. Clinton is elected president.  Rendell recognizes the good works and their importance to former President Clinton, but believes that this is the best course to follow.

    The Clinton Foundation, recognizing the importance of an organizational change,  has announced that it will not accept foreign or corporate donations if Mrs. Clinton is elected.

     I find myself on Rendell's team on this issue; if not disbandment, the Foundation should be subsumed by, or organized in conjunction with, a university.  The Carter Center, a partnership with Emory University, might be appropriately adapted.

    The carter center (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:46:37 PM EST
    model is a good one.

    I have to say though in all this discussion no one seems to have a concern for the people that are being helped by the foundation. Where are the AIDs patients in Africa going to get help with their medicine if the foundation is disbanded? The children who are currently getting food here in America? The foundation does a lot of good work in the world that really should be continued.

    Parent

    thank god (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by pitachips on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:59:40 PM EST
    We're running against Trump. I think people are so intent on not seeing him President they're more resistant to indulging the right winger obsession with emails/foundation. That being said they were very sloppy with how they handled the connections between the foundation and HRC. She was not served well by her subordinates.    

    Parent
    Latest (none / 0) (#38)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 03:53:38 PM EST
    Release of Abedin e mails are not pretty

    That being said they were very sloppy with how they handled the connections between the foundation and HRC. She was not served well by her subordinates.    

    That is putting it mildly

    Parent

    gonna be a slow leak until election day (none / 0) (#87)
    by pitachips on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 10:01:32 AM EST
    Huma left documents destined for a burn bag in the seat pocket of her car.

    SMH!  

     

    Parent

    The Clintons would serve their cause well ... (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 01:02:33 PM EST
    ... at this point by publicly disassociating themselves completely from the Clinton Foundation itself, and thus allow it to operate and fulfill its stated mission on its own without any assistance on the founding family's part, particularly with regards to its fundraising.

    The Clinton Foundation does good work in the world and ought to be able to continue doing so. I see no reason why its operations should otherwise be suspended or even shut down in an immediate knee-jerk response to unsubstantiated allegations being leveled by political opponents and a scandalmongering media.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    It has their name (1.00 / 1) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 02:17:38 PM EST
    They have hired and appointed.

    It's their Tar Baby.

    lol

    Parent

    of course (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 02:21:06 PM EST
    your rampant elitism is showing because they help people who you deem unworthy. Keep clutching your pearls and embracing white nationalism Jim. It's your thing. Pretty obvious where you are going with the "tar baby" statement.

    And of course, the fact that you have to make up the 25 million in taxes that Trump did not pay will not bother you one bit I'm sure.

    Parent

    lol (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 02:34:16 PM EST
    People who rob banks often help others

    Does that mean bank robbing is okay?

    And you really should see what didn't happen in Haiti before you brag to much.

     

    The Washington Post reported last month that the foundation's donors include seven foreign governments that contributed millions during Hillary Clinton's tenure as secretary of state. Among those donations was a $500,000 contribution from the Algerian government for earthquake relief in Haiti that the foundation has acknowledged violated the terms of an ethics agreement with the Obama administration
    .

    Peanuts

    Parent

    BTW (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 02:37:29 PM EST
    If it shouldn't be done if she's prez...why should it have been done when she was SecofState.

    Pay for play.

    Parent

    If you repeat (none / 0) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 02:46:59 PM EST
    a lie enough Jim it doesn't make it the truth even though I know Frank Luntz has lobotomized you guys to that fact by spending decades lying to you.

    Parent
    Repeating Trump's stupid smear (none / 0) (#107)
    by Yman on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 01:17:23 PM EST
    ... doesn't change it from a specious smear into a fact.

    Parent
    You're just (none / 0) (#32)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 02:44:53 PM EST
    bizarre. Name a bank robber who helped someone other than themselves?

    Okay. Now you're going to defend Obama? You're getting more hysterical everyday. OMG there's ONE ONE ONE after going through them all with a fine tooth comb. Yes, we all know you consider the people of Haiti unworthy.

    I have to say though I'm loving the complete and utter meltdown of conservatives these days. Heck, it seems that every day it gets worse for them.

    Parent

    Robin Hood (1.00 / 1) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 02:59:04 PM EST
    Defend Obama? You've gotten spastic.

    Parent
    Robin Hood (none / 0) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 03:05:57 PM EST
    was not a bank robber. You have apparently gotten to the point where you've become enmeshed in so many competing fairy tales you can't even keep them straight.

    Parent
    It's called an analogy (none / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 08:11:23 PM EST
    And you didn't have any trouble assigning one to Trump's comment about the Second Amendment people.

    Parent
    "Tar baby"? (none / 0) (#106)
    by Yman on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 01:15:27 PM EST
    That's an interesting phrase to describe a charity that does so much good throughout the world.

    Very telling.

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:05:02 PM EST
    Turning it over to others in public life like  Kennedy, Eisenhower has also been mentioned.

    I think it has to change.   Just because of the time we live in.  Not for any legal or moral reason.

    Parent

    I read this a.m. (none / 0) (#85)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 09:59:39 AM EST
    that he suggested the strongest Chinese Wall between foundation business & US government.

    Carville gave a strong defense on CNN - stated that the Clintons have only donated to the foundation and not taken any $ and that people would die if the foundation closes; example he gave was foundation's support for handing out anti-malaria drug.

    I was waiting for Carville to appear, as he is one of the few Dem commentators who can defend Clintons effectively with plain speak.  

    Parent

    He being Rendell (none / 0) (#86)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 10:01:07 AM EST
    I don't remember a "news" story (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:02:08 PM EST
    That has annoyed me more than this ridiculous pearl clutching about this money for Iran that was used a leverage to make sure the hostages were released.   WTF.  The money was not "ransom".  Even Andrea Mitchell has given THAT up.  All they have now is that it was held as leverage and insurance.

    So what.  Seriously.  Not only do I not find a single thing wrong with this, I would say NOT doing it would be unbelievably stupid and Mitchell et al would be whining about that if they had not done it.

    Honestly I wish the WH spokesperson would hold a press conference and say pi$$ off.   That's what we did.  It's perfectly fine legal and logical so get a freakin life.

    The Dept of State (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:49:38 PM EST
    has described the payment as "leverage."

    That's exactly what paying a ransom does. It is "leverage" to get the captive released.

    Embrace it, Capt. Those are your people doing it.

    Parent

    Please ignore this (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:52:04 PM EST
    You can try but you can't ignore facts. (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 02:23:00 PM EST
    I repeat. Ransom is paid to get something done.

    leverage:

    the power to influence a person or situation to achieve a particular outcome.
    "the right wing had lost much of its political leverage in the Assembly"
    synonyms:    influence, power, authority, weight, sway, pull, control, say, dominance, advantage, pressure; More


    Parent
    Pffffttt ... (none / 0) (#110)
    by Yman on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 01:34:45 PM EST
    I repeat. Ransom is paid to get something done
    .

    Paying to "get something done" does mean it's a "ransom".  Your employer used to pay you to "get something done".  Your wife pays someone to do her hair.   I paid am appliance guy to repair mt washing machine.  An insurance company paid my client to settle his lawsuit.

    None of these were "ransoms".

    Parent

    Thanks Donald (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 08:55:02 PM EST
    We're starting up by the Snoqualmie Tunnel for a couple days for a race, then come what may in sightseeing mode.

    Trump has paid his companies (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by CoralGables on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 01:03:14 PM EST
    $7.7 million from political contributions since the start of his campaign run. This sounds like it has the potential for a helluva business model for perennial candidates to pay their bills year after year while campaigning.

    He's a master (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 01:28:57 PM EST
    grifter for sure.

    Parent
    No real billionaire would stoop to (none / 0) (#115)
    by vml68 on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 02:36:07 PM EST
    scrounging for that amount. It should in effect be chump change for them. SAD!

    I would say that Tr*mp should be ashamed and embarrassed but as we have seen, they are emotions with which he is unfamiliar.

    Parent

    The Night Of (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 09:26:37 PM EST
    Gets  a 1 hr 45 min finale next week.

    Excellent.

    The Peety character was great.  Very powerful.  No a single line of dialog.


    That's good to know it willbe (none / 0) (#5)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 09:22:22 AM EST
    double shot finale. Seems like a lot of things to wrap up.

    I guess I have seen too many shows with a more modern style of dialogue and pacing. This show seems like a throwback to the 80-90's to me. The courtroom scenes are totally unbelievable to me.

    I'm glad I stuck with it though - it is interesting in its own way, just not one of my favorites.

    Parent

    Glad you are (none / 0) (#7)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 11:08:11 AM EST
    sticking with The Night Of.  While I am always trying to solve the "who done it," each episode is fascinating in its own right.

     The courtroom scenes are not up to the notions of TV court drams, but many trials are like this, folksy and absent the rapid fire of "objections."  But, it does seem unrealistic for the courtroom to be so empty, especially in a high profile case, such as this is supposed to be.

     As for my own sleuthing, just as I think I have it figured out, something happens that sends me back to square one.  Now we have Detective Box wondering, and then we have Nas as the guy.  Mother does not believe Nas, but Chandra does and seals it with a jailhouse kiss.

     And, we still have the 21 inflicted stab wounds (22 minus one for the game)on the late Andrea, and the bible's significance of the number 21 for great wickedness and sin.  And, Nas's finger tattoos with "sin."  Oh boy, fascinating.

    Parent

    The stepfather (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 11:29:25 AM EST
    Is starting to look pretty guilty.  But it sort of smells like a red herring.

    The blurb for next week says something about a controversy involving Stone (John Truturro).

    Parent

    Yeah, I thought that about the stepdad (none / 0) (#24)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 01:02:00 PM EST
    when he first appeared. Good suspect, probably red herring.  I may be prejudiced because i didn't like him on House of Cards.

    Now I think Duane Reed is a pretty good guess? Or I wonder if Freddy's crew is involved in some way.

    I'm afraid Nas is going to end up in prison anyway, one way or another.

    Parent

    The series does seem (none / 0) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 01:03:20 PM EST
    To be mostly about how fked up the justice system is.

    So yeah.

    Parent

    The AV CLUB (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:01:47 PM EST
    Has a great review that deals with this and more

    AV CLUB

    It's particularly galling when Helen Weiss tries to catch out the defense's own forensic pathologist. There's a chumminess between the two of them, a sense this is all ultimately a game they are playing. That doesn't mean either ignores the gravity of the situation, as both are dead serious about making their points. But the two acknowledge they have been doing this long enough to know how this all works, and with that comes once again the unstated but definite admission that it's never about what's actually true, but rather about who is more persuasive in claiming something to be true. Now, I'm not naïve enough to claim this is some grand revelation--I've been making this point throughout these reviews--but I want to give The Night Of credit for pi$$ing me off about this all over again.



    Parent
    That is the perfect example (none / 0) (#53)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:18:41 PM EST
    I could perfectly appreciate the acting, which was really good, and to a certain extent the script ...up to a point...but it went on and on and got too coy for its own good until I was almost at throw something at the TV point.

    Parent
    Hey, what was the Brit show a couple of you (none / 0) (#54)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:24:49 PM EST
    told about couple of weeks ago.

    I blew through 'Marcella' yesterday - excellent!  Need something new!

    Parent

    I think The Night Of (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:32:29 PM EST
    Is going to show up at EMMY time.  I really think it's special.  For some of the very reasons it bugs you.  Imustsay.

    Parent
    THE FALL (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:29:58 PM EST
    With an excellent Gillian Anderson

    I've a Night Of review for you 2


    In a sense, the clerk could be asking after the show itself. We've spent the first six chapters of The Night Of trying to match its off-kilter pacing and predilection for Cronenbergian foot gore with the established rhythms of a cops-and-criminals procedural and not quite succeeding.

    Little wonder, then, that the standard cop-and-criminal story beats -- like the downright curt introduction of suspects -- don't land in the right place. Or, sometimes -- like the John Stone-Duane Reade cliffhanger at the end of Episode 5, "The Season of the Witch" -- don't land at all.

    "Ordinary Death" builds on the Law & Order momentum of the previous chapter. But, as, you've probably come to expect with this show, not to any real, satisfying effect.

    Despite this narrative movement, the show, admittedly, is not where you would expect an eight-episode crime miniseries to be in its penultimate chapter. The effectiveness of Chandra's cross-examinations of Box and the medical examiner is blunted by her inexperience. Stone, for some reason (I am not a legal expert!), doesn't report Don Taylor's menacing assault to the police. The Night Of feels no closer to revealing who killed Andrea than it did in "Subtle Beast." (Prediction: The revelation will be triggered by something having to do with Andrea's cat.)

    THE RINGER

    Parent

    Nope , it was one I had not heard of (none / 0) (#57)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:37:32 PM EST
    I'll look back to the earlier threads. I've seen The Fall...and love it too.

    Yes, these reviews hit all the things I don't like about The Night Of. Like Chandra letting Box off the hook with the 'maybe it was your subconscious' bit....leading the witness anyone?  I can accept and appreciate notions like that as internal monologue in a book I am reading, but in a script they drive me bonkers!!!

    But you are right about the Emmys. Unless it will be forgotten by nomination time next spring, but I am sure HBO will make sure that does not happen.

    Parent

    All of the testimony plays like (none / 0) (#58)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:41:09 PM EST
    private conversations to me, not like sworn testimony Q&A. It is definitely an intentional thing, just the way they have chosen to play it out...but it makes me wonder why they bother showing a trial at all. It is not where the drama is.

    Parent
    The interesting thing is (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:44:03 PM EST
    From the graphs I quoted you might think both those were bad reviews.  But they are not.  They both are full of almost nothing but praise.   The show is maddening.  I think it's meant to be.

    I can't think what you mean.  I will check my Netflix history.  I assume it was Netflix.

    Parent

    I should probably have been watching it (none / 0) (#60)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:47:42 PM EST
    early on Monday evenings instead of staying up late Sunday nights to watch it, tired and fighting sleep the whole time.  I think it is making me a lot more annoyed with it than I would have otherwise been.  Maybe I'll skim/watch the whole thing over Sunday during the daytime before the finale.  I can skip the foot treatment.

    Parent
    Never mind, if was 'Fear of 13' a documentary (none / 0) (#61)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:53:27 PM EST
    that PeterG and McBain recommended.

    Writing it down this time!

    Parent

    I've been enjoying The Night Of (none / 0) (#96)
    by McBain on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 11:45:15 AM EST
    especially the non prison scenes.  I find the investigation aspect of this show to be it's strength.

    I also started Stranger Things.  I didn't think it would be for me, but I didn't realize it took place in 1983.... one of my favorite years.  

    Overall, I'm in a TV slump.  Been burned out on Ray Donovan and House of Cards for a while.  My favorite baseball team (A's) is having a bad year.  Cable news is unwatchable right now. If this keeps up, I'll have to do the unthinkable and start reading actual books again.  

    Parent

    Hang on (none / 0) (#98)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 12:07:20 PM EST
    QUARRY starts Sept 9

    WESTWORLD starts Oct 2

    I think this is the best season yet for Ray Donavon.

    Parent

    I enjoyed the movie Westworld (none / 0) (#99)
    by McBain on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 12:16:12 PM EST
    years ago, I'll give the show a try.

    I did see a good series based on a film a few months ago.... The Girlfriend Experience.  The suspicious personal trainer from The Night Of is in it.  

    Parent

    I expect WESTWORLD (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 12:22:29 PM EST
    To bear little resemblance to the Yule Brenner film.  Fortunately.

    I saw some of the Girlfriend series.  Meh.  The Soderbergh film (he was just a producer on the series). Was so much better.

    I think Quarry looks great.

    Parent

    That's T-Rex, not T-Red (none / 0) (#4)
    by JanaM on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:04:39 AM EST


    Speedo says goodbye to Lochte (none / 0) (#9)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 11:25:29 AM EST
    "Lochte's shelf life was already limited as an endorser. He's now just fallen off the shelf"

    What sad about all this ... (none / 0) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:47:25 PM EST
    ... is that Ryan Lochte otherwise truly deserves to be remembered as one of the greatest swimmers of all time. Instead, he's embarrassed himself and his country with his behavior and subsequent false allegations on an international stage, and now publicly stands exposed as both a jackass and a liar. It's probably going to take years before this self-inflicted personal scandal is even reduced to the level of prominent footnote in his biography.

    Parent
    Yes, it is sad (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 03:09:50 PM EST
    that Ryan Lochte and the other swimmers acted out in their inebriated state and besmirched their otherwise celebrated athleticism. Perhaps I have become immunized by the serial lying of Trump, but I did not take a high degree of umbrage by the behavior of young men acting not unlike drunken sailors. True, Lochte was older and should have have had better sense, but the effects of too much alcohol are generally age-neutral.

    Not a defense of the guys' bad, or even illegal actions, but this occurred after hours, after partying.  Not a scandal as a part of the Olympic swimming events. Not an Olympic scandal such as the Salt Lake bribery, Russian doping, or the throwing of a badminton competition.

     Rather, personal deportment, that should not reflect on their country any more than if Olympians from Germany had too much bier at the Hofbrahaus, locked elbows and smashed all he steins. Not minimizing, but proportionalizing.

    CNN and the media had a field day--an international incident to fill the gaps between the vanishing flight MH 370 and Trump's latest racist comment.  Then, again, if the "scandal" took Trump off the front page for a couple of days, then Ryan et al. surely acted in the good service of nationalism.

    Parent

    The bottom line here is that ... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 06:21:04 PM EST
    .. it was Ryan Lochte himself who first and falsely asserted that he was a victim of armed robbery. At the risk of making a bad pun, nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to make such a claim over the phone to his own mother, who then ran to the media. And nobody twisted his arm and compelled him to double down on stupid by repeating that story to reporters, when he could have clarified the matter and put it to rest quickly, rather than set himself up for a precipitous fall from grace.

    I've always liked and admired Lochte as an athlete, and I believed him when that phony story about robbery first broke. Even when doubts were first being raised about the story's veracity, I struggled with figuring out a realistic motive for Lochte to offer such a falsehood and I couldn't. I didn't have to struggle long, though, given that the Brazilian authorities figured it out pretty quickly.

    Right now, I just feel sorry for him. This gaping wound to his pride and reputation was entirely self-inflicted, and he has no one to blame but himself for this present predicament with his sponsors. Ralph Lauren has just announced that they're bailing on him, too.

    I really hope that Lochte finds it within himself to fix this and make amends. The longer this issue remains tabloid and media fodder, it can only get worse for him, to the point where he becomes a pariah. He needs to cut his losses, and can start by being totally honest with himself and taking personal responsibility for what transpired in Rio.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    im confused (none / 0) (#74)
    by linea on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 10:01:56 PM EST
    re: "Right now, I just feel sorry for him."

    i dont know if this is helpfull. but i cant, in my wildest dreams, imagine fabricating a story like that. to me, that's just so perplexing. i mean, if even somehow it did concoct a wild tale, the first time somebody said "Really?" i would had spilled the beans. i gueas what im trying to say is... i dont understand. it just doesnt make any sense to me. is it a guy thing?

    Parent

    It's not exactly clear if he fabricated (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by McBain on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 11:31:11 PM EST
    or exaggerated.  Why did he do either?  Maybe it was the alcohol... maybe it was the fear of having a gun pointed at him by someone who didn't speak his language.... maybe he's just a drama queen?  

    Parent
    There was no armed robbery. (none / 0) (#79)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 03:02:10 AM EST
    The only one who appears to be perplexed by that fact is you.

    Parent
    linea: "i guess what im trying to say is... i dont understand. it just doesnt make any sense to me. is it a guy thing?"

    Ryan Lochte has a documented history of bad boy behavior. Most all of it has involved minor offenses, but it's proved inevitably cumulative from a personal standpoint, because it finally caught up to him in Rio.

    Now, I don't know why he said what he said, and I'm not going to speculate about his motivations or his psychological state. In my opinion, it serves no purpose to further discuss what happened. It is what it is.

    What Lochte doesn't need in his life right now are enablers who make excuses for him, which is what probably got him to this dubious point in the first place.

    Rather, I just hope he does whatever he needs to do to straightens his life out and regain some sense of personal equilibrium. Binge drinking in not-so-young adults like Lochte is often a symptom of a deeper problem. He needs to take a hint and be evaluated. And if that ultimately means getting treated for alcoholism, so be it.

    Lochte is only 32 years old. I'd really like to see him make it to 50, and not go the way of Todd Marinovich, a once-promising star athlete who couldn't corral his own demons, and is now 47 going on 80.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Tiger beat on the Potomac (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 11:34:07 AM EST
    is reporting that the GOP has now given up on trying to keep the senate or win the white house and is now putting everything into an attempt to keep the house.

    Do you have a link? (none / 0) (#14)
    by mogal on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 11:45:15 AM EST
    I hope it is correct and would like to read the article.

    Parent
    I think it's this (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 04:07:08 PM EST
    POLITICO

    People want to make sure the House is protected," said Shields, who also leads American Action Network, which is closely connected to Ryan and his leadership team. Shields acknowledged the GOP's uncertain prospects in the race for president and control of the Senate -- many Republicans worry Democrats will prevail in both cases -- but said donors know that "we have to protect the House and build the firewall. And they have a tremendous amount of faith in the job that Speaker Ryan is doing and want to make sure he has the largest functional majority that he can have."



    Parent
    Btw (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 06:25:53 PM EST

    Mr KOS has some thoughts on that

    Their House fundraising has fallen off a cliff. House Republicans raised just $4.6 million in July, half of what they raised in June. Democrats? $12 f'n million.

    Several interesting links in that post

    Parent

    It has (none / 0) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:15:52 PM EST
    become i don't know if the word is interesting or funny or fantastic that some of Hillary's biggest haters and critics have become some of her biggest fans after seeing her in action. It's also what the GOP knows will probably happen once she gets to work.

    Parent
    I am surprised by what seems to be a lot more disqualifications in Rio than usual. I can't find any hard numbers on the DQ's vs previous olympics, but it sure seems like a lot.

    Of course if more athletes in Rio broke the rules, there should be more DQs.

    But it seemed like there were a lot.

    Obviously the US men and women 4x100 had their experiences with being DQ'd, with the women being reinstated.

    Then GB, India, and T&T all had their men's 4x400 relays DQ'd in Round 1.

    And then the US's Paul Chelimo and a bunch of others were DQd in the 1500 final, though Chelimo and a couple others were ultimately reinstated.

    The relays - especially - are very technical events, and the passes are determined to be legal or not by the zone judges who stand track-side.

    As the runners pass by in literally the blink of an eye, meaning mistakes can happen, I think at least at the big international competitions they should have video back-up for the zone judges.

    Athletes like Chelimo (none / 0) (#42)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 04:44:38 PM EST
    remind me of the outrage that took place when Zola Budd ran for Great Britain. Dual citizen-ships exist, but nation hunting for the purpose of making an Olympic team always makes me smile at the quirkiness. (Especially the rules in place in the US)

    Parent
    "Quirkiness" good description! (none / 0) (#45)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 04:53:44 PM EST
    Chelimo pr'd by like 15 seconds in the final, which was after pring in the semifinals too.

    Pretty remarkable.

    Parent

    Zola Budd is an Afrikaaner. (none / 0) (#65)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 08:27:38 PM EST
    As a white South African, she would have otherwise been banned from international competition during the 1980s due to her country's Apartheid policies, had she not sought British citizenship. She returned after the country transitioned to black majority rule, and ran for South Africa in the '92 Games in Barcelona.

    Parent
    True (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 08:45:37 PM EST
    but running for another country because yours can't attend isn't exactly ethical.

    That said, Mary Decker was at fault and Zola Budd rocks. As far as I know, Zola she now lives and runs in South Carolina.

    Parent

    Oh, that's right! (none / 0) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 01:46:27 PM EST
    I almost forgot about their on-track collision at the '84 L.A. Games. That iconic photo of Decker crying trackside as she watched the field pass her by was terribly misleading, making her appear the victim when she wasn't.

    Parent
    Long-time Trump advisor, (none / 0) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 04:44:52 PM EST
    blah! (none / 0) (#73)
    by linea on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 09:50:00 PM EST
    non-issue. it's like clinton's emails.

    Parent
    Do we currently have a Seattle person (none / 0) (#47)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 05:41:30 PM EST
    or anyone familiar with spending a week between Seattle and North Bend, WA? Top tips for must sees?

    I spent five years up there at UW. (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:57:07 PM EST
    Given where you're going to be near North Bend, a good place to start would be Snoqualmie Falls, which is nearby. Then, I'd check out Mount Rainier National Park.

    In the city itself, I would visit the top of the Space Needle at Seattle Center, which is the site of the 1962 World's Fair. If you're there over Labor Day, the Seattle Bumbershoot Music & Arts Festival will be held at Seattle Center on Sept. 2-4, and you might really enjoy that. Above Seattle Center on the south slope of Queen Anne Hill is Kerry Park, which is really more of a popular viewpoint than a park, per se. But it's here where you'll take in THE iconic view of Seattle that appears on so many post cards. (It's a pretty nice view at sunset, too.)

    If you're driving, you can take the state ferry across Puget Sound from Seattle Harbor to Bremerton, which is home to a major U.S. naval shipyard. The ferry trip itself is quite beautiful and takes about an hour, and if you're lucky you might spot one of the sound's resident orca pods. From Bremerton, you can drive south to Gig Harbor, which is one of the more picturesque locales on Puget Sound.

    From there, you can drive across the once-infamous Tacoma Narrows Bridge. (Watch this video, and you'll see why. Nobody died, BTW.) Once across, you can check out the view at Pt. Defiance Park. Afterward, you can explore the city of Tacoma, or you can head back toward North Bend.

    Personally -- and this is hardly on the list of most tour guides -- I think one of the very best places to picnic and watch a sunset in the entire region is at Marine View Park, south of Seattle-Tacoma Int'l Airport in the suburban town of Des Moines. The park fronts Puget Sound facing Vashon Island and Maury Island, and when the weather is cooperative, the evening view is spectacular.

    After I moved out of the UW dorms at the end of my sophomore year, my roommate and I lived down here in the nearby suburb of Normandy Park for nearly three years. It was in retrospect probably not the wisest move logistically, because it was a long commute to and from UW every single day and traffic in Seattle can be hellacious.

    But I quickly fell in love with Marine View Park and the Des Moines waterfront. The long pier at Des Moines marina is a great place to go fishing, and has a great view itself. Not that I ever did much fishing, but I loved to hang out there in the long early summer evenings, and I got to know several of the regulars who did. Curiously, many of them were fishing for squid with rod and reel.

    Anyway, that ought to get you started. Perhaps others can add to the list, to the point where you'll need a vacation in order to recover from your vacation. But then, sometimes the best vacations require hard work!

    Aloha.

    Parent

    oh!! (none / 0) (#71)
    by linea on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 09:48:40 PM EST
    from pike place market it's just a couple blocks to westlake center and you can take the monorail (fun!) to the space needle.

    Parent
    Pike's Place Market (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 08:45:42 PM EST
    is a must see.

    Boeing use to have some tours worth the time. Check that out

    And Diamond Lil's is one of, if not the, oldest card casinos on the west coast.

    And you can watch the salmon run down in Olympia. Timing is just about right.

    ... the best place to see salmon in downtown Olympia is from the 5th Avenue Dam, conveniently placed between the 4th Avenue Bridge and Capitol Lake

    Check out the sea lions in Elliott Bay..maybe catch'em feeding on salmon in the Ballard Locks.

    Not to forget Some good drinking joints. Please have a beer and schnapps for me around 5PM...and a beer and tomato juice around 8AM... Olympia Beer, naturally.

    Your weather should be great unless they've already had their 3 days of summer..

    And drop by UW... its Red Square is pretty..and aptly named..

    ;-)

    Yeah Donald, my youngest is an alumni.

    Parent

    Other than myself (none / 0) (#70)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 09:10:58 PM EST
    it will be a craft beer crowd so there will be a few drinking establishments. Sadly, Olympia beer is no longer really Olympia beer

    Parent
    "It;s the water!" ;-) (none / 0) (#72)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 09:48:56 PM EST
    Of course Tum Water meant brown or grave water.

    And few things are the way they were.

    Hope you have a fun trip!

    Parent

    It tasted just like the aluminum can it came in. I hated the stuff. Same thing with Rainier beer -- or Coors, for that matter. I was always a Heineken guy in college.

    Parent
    When I was at UW, ... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 04:09:47 AM EST
    ... there was a very large male sea lion of well over a half-ton in weight, which would hang out at Ballard Locks, and they removed and relocated him several times because he was a bloodthirsty bugger. He was not just killing steelhead to eat, but was attacking the fish merely for its own sake. One time, they even relocated him to the Farallon Islands outside of San Francisco Bay, only to see him return with several companions six weeks later.

    Ultimately, the decision was made to put him down, which was not a popular one for obvious reasons but likely necessary, given the tremendous toll he was taking on the steelhead queuing up at the Ballard fish ladders. Removal is now the official policy for troublesome sea lions there, because they had nearly destroyed the steelhead run by 1994, when only 70 fish were recorded as having made it through the locks. That run has since rebounded handsomely, thanks primarily to sea lion population control in the vicinity.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Are the car ferries still in Seattle? (none / 0) (#84)
    by fishcamp on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 09:53:29 AM EST
    They may have been called the Blackball Line, and went from the docks near Pike's Place to Vancouver Island, and Vancouver, BC.

    We mostly drove up to Seattle, from Portland,  during the winter for ski races at Snoqualmie Pass and Mt. Baker, where they usually receive more snow than any ski area in the world.  I knew they received lots of snow, and the Apple dictionary just said the most.  We usually stopped by Pike Place since there was always a busy place we could buy a few Olympia brews, being underage and all.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#93)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 11:09:01 AM EST
    Link

    Of course the ultimate commute is to fly your own float plane into the city and land on Lake Union or Washington.

    Drove to Spokane quite a bit. On one trip I left Seattle in light rain which turned to sleet as I went up the "hill" which turned to snow at the pass which turned to sleet to rain as I went down. Finally cleared for 30 miles or so then I drove into a dust storm which featured mud drops...and ended driving the last 40 miles or so in dense fog.

    Did you ever snow ski and water ski the same day?

    Parent

    Yes During the summers (none / 0) (#104)
    by fishcamp on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 12:56:16 PM EST
    we would ski mornings on the glaciers on Mt. Hood and then water ski afternoons on the Columbia River.  Finally we decided to ski the glaciers, once we were there, since we could water ski anytime.  Getting up to the glaciers above Timberline Lodge is quite an ordeal   We usually fished too.

    Parent
    When I lived there from '79 to '84, ... (none / 0) (#113)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 02:01:08 PM EST
    ... the S.S. Princess Marguerite was still in commission and making the daily round trip between Seattle and Victoria, B.C. She's long since been replaced by the passenger-only hydrofoil Victoria Clipper. I wonder what happened to the Maggie, as people used to call her. Of course, she was an older ship when I was up there, having been built during the Second World War, so she's likely since been scrapped.

    Parent
    I remember the relocation and (none / 0) (#92)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 10:51:32 AM EST
    trek back. Just can't remember if it happened while still living there or after we were transferred and were told about it by friends. We were there '82 - '87 an about average stay up until then.

    Parent
    I lived in Seattle from Sept. 1979 ... (none / 0) (#112)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 01:49:37 PM EST
    ... until July 1984. So, yeah, that probably happened while you were up there.

    Parent
    Hillary talks debate prep (none / 0) (#82)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 09:09:43 AM EST
    With Jimmy Kimmel

    "But, you've got to be prepared for wacky stuff, so I am drawing on my experience from elementary school," she told the crowd.

    "You know, the guy who pulled your pony tail,"



    There's that (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 09:28:38 AM EST
    sense of humor you have been talking about.

    Parent
    Clinton email issues (none / 0) (#88)
    by Green26 on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 10:04:24 AM EST
    Question. Are you any of the posters who were pooh poohing the Clinton's email issues earlier this year, and saying they were a non-issue, reconsidering their views yet?

    Is the Clinton Foundation stuff still a non-issue too? Take a look at the articles coming out of the NY Times.

    No (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 10:14:47 AM EST
    And yes

    Parent
    Still (none / 0) (#90)
    by FlJoe on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 10:17:12 AM EST
    a nothing burger.

    Parent
    Considering (none / 0) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 10:42:34 AM EST
    the fact that we're still discussing the same thing we were discussing 18 months ago yeah, I think you could put it in the nothing burger category.

    I'm sorry the white knight didn't show up for the GOP.

    The only thing I didn't imagine is that the GOP would be talking about how worried they are about keeping the house.

    Parent

    Judicial Watch has been talking, (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by christinep on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 11:14:29 AM EST
    speculating, & promoting conspiracy all-things-Clinton for well over 20 years.  Talking and repeating things does not make anything so ... it only makes it more talk.  In the case of going through everything in HRC's email--including personal--it needs to be re-emphasized that they all lead nowhere. Again, only speculation that there must be something of illegal harm there, that there must be some ascertainable quid pro quo.  What comes out each time ... perpetuated gossip and conspiracy theories by the rightwing ...and the fact that Vince Foster still was not murdered.

    If Greene remains interested in theorizing, I'd refer him to where the $$$$$ go that come into Trump's campaign ... see reports at HuffPo and other sites that the rent appears to have been raised substantially at Trump Towers for renters such as the campaign HQ; see national reports today that $$$$ from Trump's recent fundraising efforts partially slated to help down-ballot Repub candidates do not seem to have been distributed to said campaigns as of now ... and I would ask whether we are seeing an early real indication of personal monetary enrichment via the actual direction/repository of a variety of campaign funds.  Lots of grist in those $$$$$ promises ... see numerous reports this summer of $$$$$ ostensibly dedicated to various charities at Trump-led fundraisers actually not yet received by those to whom pledged nor yet distributed.  

    Parent

    The emails (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by KeysDan on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 12:43:16 PM EST
    obtained by the FBI (computer archives of government officials with whom the Secretary corresponded and those able to be retrieved from her server), were not part of the 55,000 pages in Secretary Clinton's possession and provided to the State Department last year.

     However, the FBI director was able to say last July that he did not believe that these additionally obtained emails were intentionally deleted. And, of course, acknowledged that email users routinely delete many emails.

    The State Department will now review these emails to determine if any are work-related. and whether any of these are duplicates that have already been released.  Any new work-related emails will be released. Is anyone really expecting anything substantive to emerge other than the Breitbart guy? And, Trey Gowdy?  Dinner menus? Someone attempting an introductory call--in Washington, D.C.?

    Parent

    Eric Hoffer (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 11:42:07 AM EST
    "Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket."

    the revolution is already tearing itself apart

    Hold on to your billfold. (none / 0) (#103)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 12:46:16 PM EST
    Cigna asked for and received an average 46.3 percent increase.

    Humana asked for and received an average 44.3 percent increase.

    BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee, which did not refile its request, asked for and received a 62 percent increase.

    Link

    And the nation's largest, United Healthcare, just withdrew from the market

    The subsidies provided to the insurance companies are coming to the end and we're seeing what the real cost is of a one size fits all policy where coverage of prior conditions is mandated and the healthy young ones aren't signing up and these increases are out running the mandate/fine.

    Trump says he will replace Obamacare.

    Single payer anyone?

    You need (none / 0) (#108)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 01:28:13 PM EST
    to talk to your people you vote for there in TN. They're the ones that are messing with you because the rates are done in the states.

    Parent
    Dear France (none / 0) (#116)
    by CST on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 03:09:01 PM EST
    You do not defeat radical ideology by adopting it.

    By banning certain people or dress types from public space, you are not forcing them to integrate, you are keeping them separate, almost assuring that they will never integrate.

    You may think it's your "right" to have France a certain way, but there are serious consequences to being the @sshole of Europe, whether you intend them or not.