Tuesday Morning Open Thread

Tonight the first Democratic debate is being held in Las Vegas. The big unknown is whether CNN will create an animatronic Joe Biden to appear at the debate.

Other possible questions - Mrs Clinton, how do you react to President Obama calling your use of a private email server a "mistake?" My suggested answer - the President also called the Benghazi committee a political hit job.>/p>

To Sanders - why did you just become a Democrat? Not sure how to answer that one.

I'll live blog the debate tonight. It starts at 830 pm I think.

Open Thread.

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    Let's see... (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:06:48 AM EST
    Clinton, Sanders, and a Biden hologram or Matz, Granderson, and Cespedes putting Kershaw and the Dodgers to bed?

    I'd like to watch, but I'm afraid the debate doesn't rate...Let's Go Mets!  

    Yeah, I'll watch after the Cubs game (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:45:36 AM EST
    unless I am celebrating too hard for a downer!

    Go Cubs and Mets! Let's wrap it up tonight with the also-rans and set our date.


    And Utley will be (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:19:41 AM EST
    "in uniform."

    And parked on the bench... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:30:11 AM EST
    with our lefty on the hill, unless Mattingly sends him up to pinch hit against a righty reliever.  In which case, if it's a close game, I hope we wait till next year to plant a fastball up his arse.  No rush, revenge is a dish best served cold anyways...we've got a NL pennant to win;)

    Dodgers broadcast last night: (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:47:20 AM EST
    "I have to say the Dodgers aren't playing well tonight."

    Gotta agree (none / 0) (#6)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:25:27 AM EST
    Debates are only useful where simeone says something outrageous or misspeaks.  No real concrete details are argued and it's turning more and more into theater.

    Go Mets!


    in 1960; the Rick Perry moment (none / 0) (#8)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:34:18 AM EST
    In the 1960 debates, Nixon seemed to be sweating and acting under pressure . . . supposedly this helped incline people to vote for JFK

    Since we had the Cuban Missile crisis . . . and since I think that Nixon would have managed to have blown the world to bits

    the debates in 1960 might have been a good thing.

    A few years ago, Rick Perry was on the stage and says there are 3 agencies I am about to get rid of . . . blah, blah and uh, uh . . .

    It was pretty funny . . . but it also indicated that Perry believed so little in his own cause that he did not know it well enough to tell others the story . . .

    In the Repub debates, we have managed to have Fiorina make what seem to be false allegations about some video or videos--though the truth is still being debated--and Trump allege that we shouldn't have her as pres because of how her business did when she was ceo . . .  oh, boy . . .


    Thus proving my point (none / 0) (#11)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:49:31 AM EST
    In 1960, they actually debated real world issues.

    Nowadays, it's "gotcha theater" and who can get the best zinger in.

    The fact that there is an audience at a Vegas hotel should tell you all you need to know.

    At least, I expect this will be auch more grown up debate.


    On Vegas productions... (none / 0) (#57)
    by christinep on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 04:17:01 PM EST
    Even for such a political breed such as myself, it is challenging to cut through all the lights, glitz that even primary election debates have become. Turning on the CBS news this morning after walk/run with my dog, I caught John Dickerson's political remarks midstream as he smilingly observed that CNN had prepared an empty podium at the ready should VP Biden decide to participate ... Dickerson then added, almost laughing, that he was surprised CNN hadn't cut a hole in the ceiling so that the VP could be lowered from a helicopter if he decided at the last minute.  Nice to find that Dickerson has a sense of humor, and a sense of perspective.

    In 1992, one of the Democratic primary debates was held in Denver. My husband, my sister, and myself were fortunate enough to be invited.  As I recall, there were 9 contenders on stage downtown; no bands, no parades, no preening TV star questioners--only an ordinary stage with candidates and the foremost Denver TV anchor at the time (Ed Sardella) posing the questions with back to an anonymous, quiet audience in a darkened theatre.  FWIW, neither I nor husband can recall one "gotcha" question being posed--it really was about issues.  Side note: The three of us entered preparing to support Paul Tsongas in the primary ... then, we saw and heard candidate Bill Clinton (& enjoyed short conversation later)... and, based on that debate, our support became Bill Clinton support from that day forward.

    It really would be something to watch an issues-oriented debate, wouldn't it?!?


    Good luck, kdog (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:11:44 PM EST
    My Redbirds are in desperate straits...climate change caused a gale to blow to right field last night and the Cubbies rode it to one game away from the big show...

    That's Wrigley for ya... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:54:56 PM EST
    pitchers park one minute, hitters park the next...all we are is dust in the wind.

    The competition: Trump (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:59:47 AM EST
    will live tweet tonight's debate.

    That this article from CNN (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 12:10:25 PM EST
    is referring to the debate as "fight night" doesn't bode well for how it's going to be handled; and if you read the rest of the article, it's like they're trying, really, really hard, to make it into a pie fight.  And to pretend there will only be two people standing on that stage.

    More contention, more viewers, I guess.

    Here's a sample:

    The shadow boxing that Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders have played at for months -- they've barely mentioned each other on the campaign trail -- will give way to more direct jabs Tuesday night.

    That's when the two rivals line up on stage at the first Democratic debate of the 2016 campaign, sponsored by CNN and Facebook. The encounter will provide a crucial opportunity for Clinton and Sanders -- the leading Democratic contenders -- to contrast their personalities, experience and approach to the key issues in the campaign.

    Make no mistake: if the media has to create contention, it will.

    In his article of Oct 12 (NYT), (none / 0) (#18)
    by KeysDan on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 12:55:22 PM EST
    Paul Krugman states "crazies have taken over the Republican Party, but the media don't want to recognize the reality."  

     It may be more accurate an observation to note that the media are covering up and conspiratorial in that reality.  It serves their purpose--ratings, advertising revenues.  And, the Democratic candidates, so far, offer nothing but policy discourse and civilized differences. Something needs to be done about that! Boring does not sell advertising time.


    CNN (none / 0) (#19)
    by lentinel on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:06:32 PM EST
    is also happily chirping for a war between the US and Russia over Syria on their home page.

    Anything for ratings.

    I hate CNN.


    Yes, CNN (none / 0) (#26)
    by KeysDan on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:24:26 PM EST
    realized its insane coverage of the missing Malaysia Airline Flight 370 was really its way of the future.  Anything and everything was tried to make a tragic event into a long-running breaking news story. Holograms, toy planes, and the supernatural.  Insane, yes. But, immune from criticism and ridicule--like Halloween slasher movies, always a market for the scary and teenager's bad judgment.

    Wait what? (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by masslib on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:22:30 PM EST
    Today he is a Democrat?

    I won't hold it against him... (none / 0) (#56)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:56:21 PM EST
    Two party duopoly, whaddya gonna do;)

    CNN just put up a map of (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:08:46 PM EST
    WHO is being talked about on Facebook, and Donald Trump's color is orange. Why orange (snicker)? Why not gray? Or a light yellow...sort of a blonde color?

    Under GOP debate polling rules (none / 0) (#1)
    by CoralGables on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:01:26 AM EST
    There would only be two candidates on the stage tonight, and only one Democrat.

    ok, different question re becky g song . . . (none / 0) (#2)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:05:00 AM EST
    I listen to some "popular" music on the radio.  I am sure if any of the rest of you do so . . . Perhaps you only listen to classical music or to NPR!  (I actually listen to some of those at times also . . . but mostly popular music at this time.)

    Is there any of the rest of those who post here who listen to "pop" music here?  and, if so . . .

    There is the newer song out by Becky G Break a sweat.

    And in the lyrics there are these lines . . .

    Let's go, let's go
    You been talking all damn night, now it's time to show

    And that would be somewhat normal, but when I heard it on the radio-- and before I checked the lyrics online--the word "talking" sounds a bit different.  

    Do you folks here it also, or is my imagination being overactive, or do nearly all of you simply not listen to such new pop songs that come out?

    I hope you can forgive the topic . . . I suppose it rates up there in importance with college football and basketball games . . . and maybe it upsets you less than discussions of private servers or of Jews and gun control and of rushing armed attackers . . .

    Of course, maybe Howard Stern finds a way to corrupt some of the music I heard of siriusxm radio when I am driving . . . maybe there is a vast satanic conspiracy to put inappropriate lyrics in the songs of important role models for youth (Becky G, for example) . . .

    Who needs animatronics? Use an empty chair. (none / 0) (#5)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:21:13 AM EST

    Trump's going to live-tweet the debate... (none / 0) (#13)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 12:01:17 PM EST
    so that should be a hoot-and-a-half.

    I guess he just can't stand it when something's not about him; hope his act doesn't end up stealing the thunder, but I'm sure that's why he's doing it.

    Maybe Ben Carson will rush the stage.

    I'll watch, mainly because I like to come to my own conclusions, and not the ones the media wants me to come to.

    If, somehow, CNN can avoid making it about non-existent scandals, and keep to matters of policy and vision, that would be a plus - and maybe, having been caught with their pants down on the Jeb Bush operative plant, they'll be more attentive to actual facts and substance.

    We might do better with animatronic debate moderators...

    Carson won't rush the stage (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:13:54 PM EST
    because he knows none of the Demos will have a gun....lol

    His "hypothetical" courage (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:46:20 PM EST
    ... and detailed description of what HE would do if he ever found himself in an armed confrontation, a situation that called for a hero and a leader like...himself, stands in stark contrast to his anecdotal example of being threatened by a gunman, and calmly helping the armed miscreant choose a more worthwhile, and much lower paid target.


    "I have had a gun held on me when I was in a Popeyes," Carson said Thursday on SiriusXM radio about an incident years ago at a Baltimore fast food restaurant.

    "The guy comes in, put the gun in my ribs," he added. "And I just said, `I believe that you want the guy behind the counter.'"

    He was probably planning to rush the gunman as soon as the criminal turned his attention to the cashier, but then he noticed that his shoe was untied, and by the time he had it tied and looked up, the shooting was over.  Or something.  Funny, he never elaborated on how he then took out the thug.


    You need to (none / 0) (#41)
    by KeysDan on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:45:45 PM EST
    check with Fiorina on the details.  She may have a video of Carson organizing (although not easy for Republicans to do) the Popeye diners for their suicide rush armed with sharp chicken bones.

    Or maybe (none / 0) (#27)
    by Zorba on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:25:29 PM EST
    Biden, the maybe-maybe-not non-candidate, will parachute in at the last second to join the debate.  ;-)

    Go Whigs! An urgent case (none / 0) (#14)
    by KeysDan on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 12:04:29 PM EST
    for the end of the Republican Party:  David Brooks (NYT Oct 13, 2015) the conservative pundit, sets forth the clear and present danger of the Republican party in his essay "The Incompetence Caucus."

     Brooks states "The Republican Party's capacity for effective self-governance degraded slowly, over the course of a long chain of rhetorical excesses, mental corruptions and philosophical betrayals.  

    Basically, the party abandoned traditional conservatism for right-wing radicalism.  Republicans came to see themselves as insurgents and revolutionaries, and every revolution tends toward anarchy and ends up devouring its own."

    "The Republican rhetorical tone has grown ever more bombastic, hyperbolic and imbalanced.  Public figures from Newt Gingrich through Ben Carson have become addicted to a crisis mentality.  Every setback, like the passage of Obamacare, became the ruination of the republic. Comparisons to Nazi Germany became a staple."

    "This anti-political ethos produced elected leaders of jaw-dropping incompetence."  ..."Really, have we ever seen bumbling on this scale, people at once so cynical and so naive, wo willfully ignorant in using levers of power to produce some tangible if incremental good? These insurgents can't even acknowledge democracy's legitimacy--"  ..."They won't respect tradition, institutions or precedent.  These figures are masters at destruction but incompetent at construction."   These insurgents are incompetent at governing and unwilling to be governed."

    Brooks rightly blurs the "incompetent caucus" with the party. They have become at one with each other. Brooks, the conservative, and often apologist for the Republican party is telling us something. Wake up, America. Don't you smell the danger?

     In the interest of the country, the Republican party should just go away. Try to start over. Perhaps, in 100-years, a new, responsible party will emerge from the ashes.

     And, no Republican candidate for president should be considered to lead the country until the party itself has been renovated and refurbished. Even, a candidate that may appear rational will face irrationals not unlike that which awaits some hapless Speaker who gets the job.

     When the electorate weds a president, it gets the in-laws and extended family--for good or not. Based on Brooks compelling analysis of his own party in-laws, it is a "not."

    A big Joe Biden commercial was just (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 12:43:26 PM EST
    On CNN. At the end it stated it was not authorized by the candidate.  

    Just bizarre. How much did someone pay for that commercial? Is he going to magically appear on the stage tonight? Is that even possible? Is his paperwork all in order to run?

    He's not appearing (none / 0) (#17)
    by CoralGables on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 12:48:59 PM EST
    He's not running. The unemployed head of Draft Biden is just about out of business.

    They just ran it again (none / 0) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:15:37 PM EST
    Using up what's left of the money? Couldn't they give it to someone else?

    It would be an interesting experiment (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:23:32 PM EST
    Run Biden ads during the debate, then check all the poll numbers tomorrow and see if Biden's numbers improve more than any of the declared candidates that participated in the debate. We may see the first all-ad candidacy.

    The (none / 0) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:23:17 PM EST
    head of Draft Biden needs to find another job I think.

    So, if he runs an ad today (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:27:01 PM EST
    He draws another paycheck? His son-in-law is running the CNN Biden account? What's the motivation for running these very expensive ads today? Is there no method? Only madness?

    Trying (none / 0) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:54:59 PM EST
    to create some artificial demand for Biden I'm guessing.

    Throwing good money after bad :) (none / 0) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:04:28 PM EST
    It's just me, but I think making sound financial decisions looks better on your resume. He's only succeeding in making himself appear self serving and ethics challenged.

    Really (none / 0) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:22:14 PM EST
    He's becoming the butt of jokes at this point. Will Biden run or won't he? Like the old Clairol ads does she or doesn't she?

    If Biden doesn't show tonight (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:48:15 PM EST
    What are those who aren't political junkies supposed to make of these commercials today? Aren't today's donors going to be a little pissed?

    Doubly So... (none / 0) (#38)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:27:42 PM EST
    ...when you consider Bide asked them to stop last week.
    Vice President Joe Biden hopes that a new ad from unaffiliated supporters promoting his potential presidential candidacy does not air, a person close to him said Thursday.

    Not sure if that was specific to one ad or any ad.


    Ouch (none / 0) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:51:22 PM EST
    Who would ever want you collecting and supporting them after this?

    What candidate? (none / 0) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:24:37 PM EST
    Honestly, some people simply have way too much time on their hands, while others apparently have way too much money to waste in pursuit of such a fool's errand.

    While I'm snickering about Donalds orange (none / 0) (#33)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:14:40 PM EST
    Would everyone please please please stop tattooing eyebrows and lip liner on themselves? The older we get the weirder those tattoos look, and the lip liner stops matching any shade of lipstick you would put on there. And I can't quit staring at your stark eyebrow tattoo. But at least you think I'm looking you in eye, that has value :)

    get off (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by CST on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:18:32 PM EST
    my lawn :)

    Whose face are you looking at? (none / 0) (#36)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:24:25 PM EST
    Funny story - you know how, when you have little kids, it is almost a given that they will not only spot the unusual about a person, but feel compelled to ask you about it in their clear-as-a-bell, can-hear-it-all-the-way-in-the-back-of-the-store voices?

    Had that experience with one of mine, who spotted a woman who had apparently shaved off her eyebrows and penciled in something no one has ever seen on a living human being..."Mommy...why does that lady have those kind of eyebrows?"

    My fallback answer to all of these kinds of questions was along the lines of, "well, I'm not sure.  Why are your eyebrows the way they are?  You and I don't have the same kind of eyebrows, so I guess she's just different - just like you and me."

    If I was lucky, that was the end of it, and a kind smile directed at the object of my kids' attention usually helped the awkward go away, but geez...those are the challenging moments, when you realize you have an opportunity to teach your kid something, if you can just figure out in a split-second, the right way to do it...


    Remember the herd thing...where (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:45:25 PM EST
    Women all got those tattoos? I was still able to lightly pencil in so I would not go. But one of my family members my age broke and got the eyebrow tattoo recently. I don't care how trendy permanently drawing on my face gets, you can't wash it off. Ten yrs down the road, the lip liner is not the same color. It goes to purple...almost black. This is IMO not a good look :) And once you have that stark line for a brow, you can't feather one in that covers it it seems. Nope...nope, ask for better pencils and clingy pigments (which they have done now). I'll fake it that way for as long as I can, when it ceases to work I probably won't care if I have eyebrows. Just less hair on my face to police up.

    Reminds me of a time I went to Home Depot (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by vicndabx on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:54:25 PM EST
    my at the time 3 year old and I along w/her older sister were in Home Depot.  One of the employees was handicapped  - he had no arms.  I mean nothing from either shoulder down.  Both of my kids saw him when we first came in the store as he was near the entrance.  My eldest daughter - Dad! DAD! that guy doesn't have any arms!  Shush! I told her, we don't talk about people out loud like that.

    Fast forward 10 minutes while I'm in the plumbing section looking for push on connectors - who comes up asking if he can help?  You guessed it.  The three year old sitting in the cart turns to him, looks him up and down and says w/a bit of a sly eye whilst pointing - "you don't have no arms.....'

    Needless to say, I could think of nothing to say.  Brown I am, but was for sure quite red & hot in that moment.  Fortunately for me, the worker was quite gracious in his response.  "I lost them in an accident."  The gentleman was quite helpful actually.  

    True story.


    My son is noticeably different (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:02:47 PM EST
    And everyone with the same disorder is gathering online with their families. From what I have read from those with such noticeable differences, they usually don't mind when children are full of questions. It is normal. Most prefer talking to the kids vs. all of us telling our little ones to pretend they don't see something different. People pretend to not see them all the time. We do it out of what we feel is a courtesy, but it has an isolating affect on many of those who have physical differences.

    In retrospect (none / 0) (#49)
    by vicndabx on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:06:22 PM EST
    I was glad he came over to help.  A teachable moment for my kids on many levels.  Key takeaway  - don't be an a$$ towards those that are different from you.

    Did those push on connectors work for (none / 0) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:03:51 PM EST
    You? We have high water pressure at our house. They failed.

    Yes, they did. (none / 0) (#51)
    by vicndabx on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:13:18 PM EST
    I'm kinda anal about research and how to's online.  Sharkbite was the brand I used.  I made sure to follow the instructions (not implying you didn't) from the videos on their website..  Still on my cold water line over a year later w/no issues.  May be my pressure is lower - but they were a quick easy fix for a pinhole leak I came across.

    We tried sharkbite too (none / 0) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:52:34 PM EST
    The water coming into the house is coming downhill off the main. We need to install a regulator but the city shut off valve won't close all the way nor will they repair it. Welcome to Alabama.

    Everything in Alabama has to be built to code now though. I suppose I could approach the city again.


    And sometimes as a parent, it's best to ... (none / 0) (#39)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:44:13 PM EST
    ... simply keep one's own mouth shut whenever the kids -- or grandkids now, in your case -- may be within earshot, because they have a tendency to repeat to others what they overhear you say. Like the time my younger daughter told her second-grade classmate that his very married father -- a co-worker of mine at the legislature -- had a girlfriend on the side. He went home and told his mother, who then came to me once she learned the source of that information, and she was quite distraught at the news. "Awkward moment" doesn't even begin to describe that self-inflicted predicament.

    Shhhh, I haven't said it around the kids (none / 0) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:08:32 PM EST
    Only online. Offline I'm just standing there quietly staring ermmmm....listening.

    So, I guess NBC and the Donald have made up (none / 0) (#44)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:53:31 PM EST
    Trump will host SNL

    Tell me, who is surprised?

    WTF ? (none / 0) (#52)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:29:35 PM EST
    The University of Houston will host a Republican presidential candidate debate -- scheduled to be the final one before Super Tuesday -- on Feb. 26.

    It is scheduled as the final GOP debate before the crucial Super Tuesday primary contests in Texas, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Massachusetts, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Vermont and Virginia on March 1. All candidates who qualify are expected to participate in the debate, which will be presented in partnership with National Review magazine.

    You should (none / 0) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:31:45 PM EST

    Michigan Woman Charged in Shots Fired... (none / 0) (#54)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:50:13 PM EST
    ...at Shoplifters

    A suburban Detroit woman is facing firearms charges after authorities say she shot at an SUV's tire to stop two shoplifters fleeing a Home Depot parking lot.

    Tatiana Duva-Rodriguez of Clarkston was charged Tuesday with one count of reckless use, handling or discharge of a firearm, Oakland County Prosecutor Jessica Cooper said.

    The charge is a misdemeanor and carries a 90-day jail sentence upon conviction.

    The shooting occurred Oct. 6 in Auburn Hills, northwest of Detroit. The shoplifters got away, but two men were arrested a few days later and charged with retail fraud.


    The funny thing, the vigilante with a gun didn't stop the unarmed shoplifters even after firing at their tires, all she did was put a whole lot of people in danger.

    This morning (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 04:18:40 PM EST
    Mark Halperin (sp?) said that he believed that Biden could  wait until January or February to decide if he is running or not.

    Just in case anyone thought that was going away.