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A Draft Now vs. The Draft Then

Our good friend Max disagrees with us on the Draft. He's for it--because he thinks it might reopen the discussion about whether the President should have the power to declare war. [Update: Max modified his position here.]

As a downside to the draft, he says there might be a comeback of Country Joe and the Fish. So once again, two liberals disagree. We love Country Joe and the Fish, and back in October, reprinted the lyrics to the Feel Like I'm Fixing to Die Rag in a post titled War is Not the Answer.

Max also doesn't think that the draft during the Vietnam War had anything to do with anti-war activism. We again disagree. But since there seems to be a lot of disagreement among readers in the comments sections to various blogs on the topic, we encourage everyone to go here and read this series from the BBC containing a succinct and well-documented chronicle of anti-war efforts. The link is to 1969-70, but after reading, scroll down and you will find the links for the other years during the period of 1965-1975.

We responded to Max in his comments section that we cannot support risking the lives of this country's youth to make a political point. They should not be used as pawns in the war debate. For anti-war liberals to support a draft where people would be forced to go to war makes no sense to us--it's a classic cutting your nose off to spite your face, as one of our readers said in the comments section to our earlier post.

One last thing, if Country Joe doesn't grab you, check out Arlo Guthrie's long version of Alice's Restaurant. KBCO, our great radio station in Boulder, used to play it every Thanksgiving at noon (into the 90's at least). The lyrics are too long to print here, but if you click on the more button below, we have included those to the second half about reporting to the draft board on Whitehall Street in New York City--(the first half has to do with Arlo's arrest for littering, at the end it all ties together.)

Second half of lyrics to Arlo Guthries' Alice's Restauant:

Came to talk about the draft.

They got a building down New York City, it's called Whitehall Street,
where you walk in, you get injected, inspected, detected, infected,
neglected and selected. I went down to get my physical examination one
day, and I walked in, I sat down, got good and drunk the night before, so
I looked and felt my best when I went in that morning. `Cause I wanted to
look like the all-American kid from New York City, man I wanted, I wanted
to feel like the all-, I wanted to be the all American kid from New York,
and I walked in, sat down, I was hung down, brung down, hung up, and all
kinds o' mean nasty ugly things. And I waked in and sat down and they gave
me a piece of paper, said, "Kid, see the phsychiatrist, room 604."

And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I
wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,
KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and
he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,
sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."

Didn't feel too good about it.

Proceeded on down the hall gettin more injections, inspections,
detections, neglections and all kinds of stuff that they was doin' to me
at the thing there, and I was there for two hours, three hours, four
hours, I was there for a long time going through all kinds of mean nasty
ugly things and I was just having a tough time there, and they was
inspecting, injecting every single part of me, and they was leaving no
part untouched. Proceeded through, and when I finally came to the see the
last man, I walked in, walked in sat down after a whole big thing there,
and I walked up and said, "What do you want?" He said, "Kid, we only got
one question. Have you ever been arrested?"

And I proceeded to tell him the story of the Alice's Restaurant Massacre,
with full orchestration and five part harmony and stuff like that and all
the phenome... - and he stopped me right there and said, "Kid, did you ever
go to court?"

And I proceeded to tell him the story of the twenty seven eight-by-ten
colour glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and the paragraph on
the back of each one, and he stopped me right there and said, "Kid, I want
you to go and sit down on that bench that says Group W .... NOW kid!!"

And I, I walked over to the, to the bench there, and there is, Group W's
where they put you if you may not be moral enough to join the army after
committing your special crime, and there was all kinds of mean nasty ugly
looking people on the bench there. Mother rapers. Father stabbers. Father
rapers! Father rapers sitting right there on the bench next to me! And
they was mean and nasty and ugly and horrible crime-type guys sitting on the
bench next to me. And the meanest, ugliest, nastiest one, the meanest
father raper of them all, was coming over to me and he was mean 'n' ugly
'n' nasty 'n' horrible and all kind of things and he sat down next to me
and said, "Kid, whad'ya get?" I said, "I didn't get nothing, I had to pay
$50 and pick up the garbage." He said, "What were you arrested for, kid?"
And I said, "Littering." And they all moved away from me on the bench
there, and the hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean nasty things, till I
said, "And creating a nuisance." And they all came back, shook my hand,
and we had a great time on the bench, talkin about crime, mother stabbing,
father raping, all kinds of groovy things that we was talking about on the
bench. And everything was fine, we was smoking cigarettes and all kinds of
things, until the Sargeant came over, had some paper in his hand, held it
up and said.

"Kids, this-piece-of-paper's-got-47-words-37-sentences-58-words-we-wanna-
know-details-of-the-crime-time-of-the-crime-and-any-other-kind-of-thing-
you-gotta-say-pertaining-to-and-about-the-crime-I-want-to-know-arresting-
officer's-name-and-any-other-kind-of-thing-you-gotta-say", and talked for
forty-five minutes and nobody understood a word that he said, but we had
fun filling out the forms and playing with the pencils on the bench there,
and I filled out the massacre with the four part harmony, and wrote it
down there, just like it was, and everything was fine and I put down the
pencil, and I turned over the piece of paper, and there, there on the
other side, in the middle of the other side, away from everything else on
the other side, in parentheses, capital letters, quotated, read the
following words:

("KID, HAVE YOU REHABILITATED YOURSELF?")

I went over to the sargent, said, "Sargeant, you got a lot a damn gall to
ask me if I've rehabilitated myself, I mean, I mean, I mean that just, I'm
sittin' here on the bench, I mean I'm sittin here on the Group W bench
'cause you want to know if I'm moral enough join the army, burn women,
kids, houses and villages after bein' a litterbug." He looked at me and
said, "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send you fingerprints
off to Washington."

And friends, somewhere in Washington enshrined in some little folder, is a
study in black and white of my fingerprints. And the only reason I'm
singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar
situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a
situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into
the shrink wherever you are ,just walk in say "Shrink, You can get
anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.". And walk out. You know, if
one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and
they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them.
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an
organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and
walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

And that's what it is , the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacre Movement, and
all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the
guitar.

With feeling. So we'll wait for it to come around on the guitar, here and
sing it when it does. Here it comes.

You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant
You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant
Walk right in it's around the back
Just a half a mile from the railroad track
You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant

That was horrible. If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.
I've been singing this song now for twenty five minutes. I could sing it
for another twenty five minutes. I'm not proud... or tired.

So we'll wait till it comes around again, and this time with four part
harmony and feeling.....

[comments now closed]

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  • Display: Sort:
    Draft For Anyone (none / 0) (#1)
    by matthood on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 06:55:30 PM EST
    President Bush's war is over unless he pulls a Adolf Hitler and installs the draft so he could draft the Rhineland. I agree that we need a draft. Everyone whose parents is an federal elected Senator or a Congressman and all federal justice then all of of those who live off the tax payers expense like federal employees are the first to be drafted or their worthless kids who wrap themselves in the flag of our freedom but refuse to fight for their freedom. Bush claims that we are in a war that will end all wars but none of his worthless kids or his worthless family are in the military. For God only knows the Bush's might die for something Nobel such as freedom. I guess avoiding military service and the draft is a family affair and a family business. His grandfather Prescott Bush hid out in military intelligence while working on his two martini's a day in great thoughts on how for some one else to win this inhumane war. His gutless son GHW Bush was allowed to be a pilot when he did not qualify to be a pilot. It took the dumb-ass Lt Bush two years to learn how to fly before he fired his first shot after he destroy 2 planes. Out of 4 years of alleged war, he only fought 7 months before he freaked out by the murder of a fellow S&B friends on a bombing run.  He was sent home for he was a worthless man determined to be combat ineffective who did nothing for a year while avoiding major combat operations where his dumb-ass was needed on the front lines. I guess he would not be able to tell the difference between the enemy and our guys. During his last year in the military; while everybody was doing their job. Bush was allowed to get married in January to his beautiful bride  while he got his nuts rub every night until all the bombs was dropped in that summer for his father new that the A-bomb was going to be dropped. He wasted the governments money hiding out from the war between his wife knees with his face in a dark place of no concern. He was not going back to war; unless the japes landed in california. He was the first soldier to be cut lose to be able to go to his precious Yale: The scum of America elite's school and the trash of the rich It was the only school he could graduated from. As far as I am concerned GHW Bush and GW Bush both was given their college degree no matter if they passed or not. The only reason GW Bush went to Yale is because the State of Texas could not be bribed to take GHW Bush retarded son. It seems that in  Texas one has to show up in order to pass the class's. If these two Bush's are a example of what a Yale man who is a graduate, I would be ashamed has a college professor. I would demand my Yale degree back so the school could burn that SOB degree in shame. Our current President in case any one wants to know is committing a current felony; day by day as  I speak. It seems that one can not be a covert CIA officers while being a federally elected official. The President of the United States can not be a covert CIA officers while currently being President of the United States. It is considered a felony if not treason. He has to tell the public before he runs for public office if he is CIA. Brother Jeb has been on the payroll of the CIA payroll has well as Governor in Florida with the state largest CIA base in the world at one time that has alleged ties to murdering President JFK with its known Cuban community hostile to JFK with the money of JP Morgan with all their well trained CIA murders who were pissed along with their Nazi case workers brought over to America with the CIA and with special US ARMY units to be apart of America anti-communist league ran by America Generals who were to be house in Cuba when the Nazi's overthrew Fidel Castor. The wealthy Nazi's supporter used the OSS/CIA and Cuba was to be old folks home for all the Nazi's that Allen and John Dulles had brought to America to train people to fight in Cuba and Central America while being on the payroll of the CIA's front company United Fruit company. The US Military and the CIA/OSS and military intelligence, and state department intelligence gave 1,000's if not more a clean bill of health with new names and new identities to live with out fear in America as citizens. It was the Nazi's propaganda unit developed from Germany who design the CIA's Operation Mocking Bird to deceive Washington, the President, Congress, and America about some of the CIA's more aggressive attempts to deceive with it domestic programs. During the Church committee hearing, CIA Director GHW Bush during his tenure, privatized many of the CIA programs to groom covert operatives to serve America in the public sectors, in a multiples arena's to be put in position of authority as captains of Industries to operate on the domestic level to maintain control over the NSA assets in private, public and the military affairs. There is no telling how many military officers belong to the CIA to maintain the balance of the CIA control over the military. How many young officers have been fast tract in the military like General Petraeus who is only qualified to attack Princeton over better officer. General Petraeus is a CEO in uniform and a President Bush in uniform. Judging from his military record he is not a real soldier. He is but a cheap imitation of a toy soldier that is still left in its package. He was never a Second Lt. with a platoon command walking the trail on point with his men looking for the VC. He was General William Knowlton son-in-law who master the use of carrying the brief case of his superior officer in proper military fashion. The CIA and the Military has many of young groups of young military officer they intend to fast track into military intelligence and National Security post to protect the civilian leadership they have chosen to lead this nation.
       Our leader and captains of industries are chosen at this nation elite schools and university's with promises of success, promotion, and a guarantee career's in political success by professors on the payroll of the CIA to weed out the weak.
      People like Prescott Bush, who was on the board of many colleges boards like Yale has chosen many of this nation leaders, futures judges and military leaders and Generals like General Petraeus to support the civilian goals of the private enterprises of Wall Street who are saturated with CIA officers who guard the fortunes of the CIA. Prescott Bush and other like him have chosen the CIA's civilian leadership, who open the doors for young men and women, who allow the people to be groom for the political machine that is controlled by the illegal domestic CIA and then Generals who have been groomed by the civilian side of the CIA. Trust me when I say this when I say this from the day CIA was created the first priority of the civilian side civilian side of the CIA has been to put their grip on this nations nation security in its  own Generals in command of their war of the CIA to make sure that all those like Bush has his on Generals in charge of the CIA's war. They did this in Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Jordan and other nation. Billions of dollars are being laundered in the Banks of Kuwait, that have been stolen from the American taxpayers in Bush's little war in the middle east to butt fuck all of the little ignorant God fearing America's, who have been deceived with the littlest of ease by people who are being deceived by a democracy that does not exist by our own elected officials, who have nothing but contempt for our democracy. We the People, who are nothing but the turds for them to shit on in the name of freedom, God and country from the land of the unclean and the clean. The American taxpayers is the pot of Gold at the end of the Rainbow for all the godless wealthy in the world who pay no taxes, who devour us as if we are the bewilder beast being feed on by the Lions. By divine authority we are eaten by the wealthy and the machine the CIA has created after WW2 in a unholy pact between the Nazi's, the Gestapo, and all of the American Nazi's, who created Adolf Hitler, who have never been brought to justice for their crimes against America to bring this nation to its knees by the filthy bankers who work for the devil and the army's of corruption of malice without repentance by the lawyers who feed off the innocent of Wall Street from the blind and godless whores of the Catholic Church whom during WW2 who fabricated the greatest of all victim's History will never have known. God's own the decedents of the Hebrews the Jew's who will never see justice by the ungodly Christians who perpetuate a myth not given to earth by God but by godless men seeking greed.  The Bush/Walker family have had a corrupting influences on this nation equal to that of the antichrist seeking the blood of all nations by seeking ways to make all Americans servants to the banks by selling their souls forever to be indentures servants to the creatures. Usury has become the gods of the land. Bush Jr has sold this nation into a debit of tears which is not his country to sell. He has used American credit card to be used personally for his friends like a drunken sailor with no regard for tomorrow. He claims he will not raise taxes. For every dollar he spends on Americas credit card is money we have to pay back. That is a trillion dollar tax at the least. What lies one tells when one knows nothing about money who has gone to Yale.
      Bush's war is the CIA's war written in 1940's to be apart of the CIA's Wall street desire to privatize the middle east in the middle of the cold war. Is father had every intention of removing Saddam Hussein on his watch but the war was to successful that Saddam Hussein was to easy to surrender that Bush's coalition abandoned his desire to go to Baghdad. If Bush had received a second term as President, Bush would have done what he wanted to do in the first place that the CIA had planned for a long time. President Clinton defeated Bush to Clinton's regret. The foot soldier of Bush continued his war in the non-profits right wing and the right wing foundation that gave aid and comfort to America enemies. Clinton was impeached because he refuse to comply with the right wing war mongers of the descendants of the Nazi's that was laying the way for Bush Jr, a man who is unelectable, to become President of the US. Bush who is a covert CIA officer used his father's CIA assets who still have control of NSA, CIA, and the military. The voting machines is a patent computer program crated by a former NSA personnel. Many of the people who sold these voting machine with these voting machine NSA program are former CIA officers some out of Venezuela. The election was rigged by the CIA. It is what they do. What make you think they would not be used on our election. The CIA is loyal only to the CIA. It was the perfect storm. The CIA civilian personel who were put in position of power by the civilian side of the CIA who make sure that the fascist stay in power. After Bush was elected he put his Generals from the CIA knowing that the demand was to go to war at all cost with  Iraq. It was written on the wall! Saddam Hussein lost his protection when he left the reservation by developing a relationship with Russia, French and the British. Iraq nationalized it oil companies drawing the wrath of the Saudis and their CIA controlled oil companies. The western oil companies where kick out of Iraq because the Saudis and the CIA was cheating Iraq out of taxes and underdeveloping their oil fields making the Saudi oil more profitable as long as Iraq was off line in their production ability.
       It has been a long term fact that Osama Ben Laden hated the west because the west keep down the price of oil in the middle east. With Bush going to war with AI Qaeda the price of oil will make $150 a barrel before he leaves office. His oil stock that are in a blind trust are making a fortune every time a Marine gets killed in the Middle-East. All of his stock are in war. With Kuwait banking laws being like the Swiss many America can have many a dollar bill to hid in Kuwait to get in on the Euro that is going to defeat the dollar. Bush war takes the stink our of the money he will lose against the Euro.
        The CIA has a secret government where they groom people to put in position of authority. We have no idea how many persons are in the CIA who are a congressman or a Senator or who is a Federal Judge. Many of these college kids get jobs in government to spy on the different departments in government. They start out their career in low level jobs in the government. How do you think Bush's SEC files disappeared. How do you think all of Prescott Bush's Nazi files have disappeared from the national archives. The CIA has people who work in those building to protect the reputation of its people. By the time the Nazi file are open with the public they will have been cleaned by the CIA in the name of the National Security. Many of the National records about the war in Iraq will disappear. That I promise you for a fact!