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Labor Day Open Thread

Every Labor Day, since 2007 I post the same photo. It is a sculpture on a Labor Union memorial walking trail in downtown Omaha. I was in Omaha a lot during 2006-7 due to a drug case there that I was defending. Every morning before court or going to the jail to see my detained client, I'd walk the trail, stopping to read all the placards under each signpost and when I got to the sculputre, I would just stand in awe.

The sculpture is huge, 30 feet wide by 40 feet tall. Here is a photo of it from the web page of the artist who created it, Matthew Plazcek. It is called "Labor Monument".

This massive design featuring five larger-than-life bronze sculptures depicts the dignity, inspiration and dedication of the American work force.

Next is Labor Day music. We have a rich history of protest songs but the one that resonates with me the most on Labor Day wasn't even written by an American. [More...]

Let's drink to the hard workin' people
Let's drink to the lowly of birth
Raise your glass to the good and the evil
Let's drink to the salt of the earth
Say a prayer for the common foot soldier
Spare a thought for his back breaking work
Say a prayer for his wife and his children
Who burn the fires and who still till the earth

Here's a live version with Keith Richards singing the opening lyrics.

The song was on Beggar's Banquet released in 1968.

Happy Labor Day everyone. This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Atlanta: Donald Trump Hires New Lead Lawyer | Mark Meadows Loses Motion to Move GA Case to Federal Court >
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    Two countries (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 08:42:16 AM EST

    In the smaller, redder regional culture of New France (in southern Louisiana) the gap is just short of six years. So large are the regional gaps that the poorest set of counties in predominantly blue Yankee Northeast actually have higher life expectancies than the wealthiest ones in the Deep South. At a population level, a difference of five years is like the gap separating the U.S. from decidedly unwealthy Mongolia, Belarus or Libya, and six years gets you to impoverished El Salvador and Egypt."

    "It's as if we are living in different countries. Because in a very real historical and political sense, we are."

    America's Surprising Partisan Divide on Life Expectancy
    Centuries-old settlement patterns -- and the attitudes they spawned about government -- are to blame for differences in longevity between red southern states and bluer parts of the country.



    This is a fascinating article (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 05:29:14 PM EST
    It's no surprise that they're (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 11:33:05 AM EST
    sticking it to the peons.

    On the other hand, Fox News leading up to January 6th, was like America's very own version of Radio Television Libre des Mille Collines in Rwanda in the nineties.

    If Proud Boys are getting 20, Bartiromo, Pirro, Tucker, Dobbs, and a Murdoch or two, should all be getting at three-to-five at the very least.

    High-priced lawyers or no high-priced lawyers.

    With the right ammo. (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 06:02:45 PM EST
    Oh, please, yes. This is the understatement of the century: O'Brien said. "And there is an appetite for his removal."

    Thank you so very much for the Inquirer link. Of the Democrats, I think O'Brien has the best chance of beating that SOS Perry. Janelle Stelson from WGAL would have a good chance also, she has huge name recognition around here from being on the local news.

    Being ex-Navy, I like O'Brien's USMC cred. (and his wife's USMC cred.)

    I am retiring in June 2024. I've been contemplating spending my retirement as the number one Scott Perry troll on the intertubes. I despise Perry so much. Like O'Brien, I take it personally that Perry tried to stab every voter in PA in the back and nullify our votes.

    DA Fani Willis response to (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 07, 2023 at 01:31:04 PM EST
    Gym Jordan after he asked her to turn over all documents related to her prosecution of Trump and 18 others on racketeering charges related to achieving election subversion.  Some highlights (you will no doubt have your favorites):

    Republicans are "obstructing a Georgia criminal proceeding"; tell Jordan, "he should buy a copy of the Rico book for the "non-bar member price;" Congress, she reminds is not "a law enforcement or trial agency"; functions reserved for "the executive and judicial departments of government;" Recalls for Jordan that a congressional subpoena is valid only if it is "related to, and in furtherance of, a legitimate task of Congress by referencing Gym's response to J6 Committee Chair, Bennie Thompson, "This unprecedented action serves no legitimate purpose and would set a dangerous precedent for future congresses--the American people deserve better."

    District Attorney Willis ends her lengthy response to Jordan with: "As it seems you are interested in the Fulton County District Attorney office, you should consider directing the DOJ to investigate the racist threats that have come to my staff and me because of this investigation.(examples of threats and hate mail are included as exhibits.)

    This here (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 07, 2023 at 04:37:48 PM EST
    is how it's done.  I luv Fani.

    Parent
    You would (none / 0) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 07, 2023 at 05:53:56 PM EST
    think Republicans would learn not to mess with black women-Willis, James & Chutkan. But they aren't very smart.

    He also didn't learn anything by being shut down by Alvin Bragg on this exact same thing.

    A friend of mine who lives in Ohio wonders what happened to the Ohio she grew up in.

    Parent

    Lyle Denniston (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by jmacWA on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 06:51:31 AM EST
    Another good explanation by Denniston, this one regarding removing Trump from the ballot.  Thanks to Peter's recommendation I check Lyle's site at least once a week for down to earth commentaries on legal topics.

    This doesn't seem like a good idea to me. (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 10:16:54 AM EST
    Even if it works in a few places which is not clear I don't think it's the right way to beat Trump.
    If he is in the race, still not convinced he will be the nominee, he needs to be beaten with votes.

    In an election.  Which is entirely doable.

    This kind of legal maneuver will only increase his legend and his support besides probably only happening in states he is likely to lose anyway.

    IMO, of course.

    Parent

    I heard an analysis say that (none / 0) (#55)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 03:57:41 PM EST
    the point is to get it to the SCOTUS to get a ruing on whether this is a valid use of the amendment. Then that ruling will apply for all the states.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 04:25:51 PM EST
    I get that.  I still think it's not the best way

    Parent
    Clarification (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 04:28:02 PM EST
    is probably good.  I just don't think it's the best way to deal with Trump.  

    Parent
    Also (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 04:38:14 PM EST
    Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think a Supreme Court decision in one states case would apply to every state automatically since elections and their rules are totally state by state,

    Parent
    Poor Meadows. I bet this just ruined his (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by vml68 on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 05:09:59 PM EST
    weekend :-)!


    A federal judge on Friday rejected former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows' bid to move his Georgia criminal case to federal court


    I am sure (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 05:13:40 PM EST
    it did. However see my comment below. The jury pool isn't that much better in federal court and he would get an Obama judge whereas in Fulton he has a federalist society judge who is inexperienced.

    Parent
    The point of removing this kind of case (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 09:20:20 PM EST
    to federal court is not to improve the jury pool. It is to get a federal judge then to dismiss the indictment in response to a motion invoking federal supremacy -- the argument that a state cannot prosecute a federal officer (or a person assisting a federal officer) for abusing their federal authority; only the federal government can bring such a charge. Of course, that same motion can (and no doubt will) be filed to dismiss the case in state court. Also, there is an argument -- not a great argument, but not hopeless -- that the denial of the removal motion can be appealed to the federal court of appeals (11th Circuit). And that the appeal may trigger a stay that delays the trial.

    Parent
    As I understand it (none / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 09, 2023 at 02:18:23 PM EST
    that is one of the hopes of Meadows. Since he has appealed, he obviously is hoping the 11th circuit intervenes on his behalf. However, from what I read the judge's decision is pretty airtight.

    Parent
    As I suggested in my post (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Peter G on Sun Sep 10, 2023 at 02:49:40 PM EST
    as an federal appellate specialist, I am dubious that order is even appealable. In other words, the Eleventh Circuit may not have authority to overturn (or uphold) the order remanding the case to state court, either way. The federal appellate circuits are courts of limited and defined jurisdiction. I'm not seeing it here, but the situation is unusual and I could be missing something.

    Parent
    Stupid question (none / 0) (#86)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 10, 2023 at 05:46:35 PM EST
    If Meadow's complaint is unappealable what happens? Can the 11th circuit just say nothing or do they just rule it is unappealable?

    Parent
    Appellate courts, as is true of all (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Peter G on Sun Sep 10, 2023 at 06:55:17 PM EST
    courts of limited jurisdiction, like the federal courts, must consider first in each case the question whether the court has jurisdiction of the appeal (as well as whether the lower court had jurisdiction over the case). Often that issue is clear and obvious, and will be disposed of in a single, formulaic sentence. But if the matter is debatable, then the court will address it. The explanation is that a court "always has jurisdiction to determine its own jurisdiction." If the answer is "no," then that will be the only issue addressed. If yes, they will say so, explain that conclusion to the extent necessary, and go on to address the appeal on its merits.

    Parent
    Stupid question (none / 0) (#87)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 10, 2023 at 05:46:35 PM EST
    If Meadow's complaint is unappealable what happens? Can the 11th circuit just say nothing or do they just rule it is unappealable?

    Parent
    It seems to me (none / 0) (#67)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 08:31:23 PM EST
    to have some other sub rosa agenda other than jury pool.  I have been wondering if the idea of federal officer removal is not linked to presidential pardon and escaping Georgia's difficult pardon procedures.

    Perhaps Meadows believes it can be argued that (if successfully removed to federal court, despite remaining a Fulton County prosecutorial case) as a federal officer acting under color of federal office, if convicted, he may be eligible for  a presidential (federal) pardon. These are un-chartered waters.and open to actions of a corrupt sea captain and desperate sailors. And, a corrupt Supreme Admiralty.

    Parent

    Possibly (none / 0) (#71)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 09, 2023 at 02:17:12 PM EST
    I have heard the dismissal issue raised but the prosecution is actually the state of Georgia. Fulton County doesn't have separate criminal codes.

    Parent
    That (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 09, 2023 at 08:08:32 AM EST

    "inexperienced federalist society judge"

    did a pretty kick azz job in the first round

    They also want to avoid the trial being televised.

    None will be moved to Federal Court.  I betcha.

    Parent

    I think (none / 0) (#73)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 09, 2023 at 02:20:24 PM EST
    none are going to be moved to federal court. If Meadows can't get past the requirements then certainly the rest of them aren't going to be able to. The most ridiculous claims are from fake electors. I think some of these low level players may take a deal or that time may have passed for them since it seems a lot of deals were already made before the indictments.

    Parent
    Definitely expect deals (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 09, 2023 at 02:50:11 PM EST
    I think that might have always been part of the plan to weed out some of the 19.

    Parent
    It is definitely not too late for some of (none / 0) (#85)
    by Peter G on Sun Sep 10, 2023 at 02:52:10 PM EST
    the 19 to make deals. Maybe not the same deals they could have gotten before indictment, but still very much to their advantage as compared with standing trial.

    Parent
    I should (none / 0) (#88)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 10, 2023 at 05:49:04 PM EST
    have been clearer. What I meant was to get the good deals. I am sure that Fani will take a plea deal. Even if there are "good deals" the others got will we find out? I read that we might in discovery motions.

    Parent
    The deal that each defendant got will be disclosed (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Peter G on Sun Sep 10, 2023 at 06:58:07 PM EST
    in connection with the hearing on acceptance of that defendant's guilty plea, or if there is no plea (or the plea is postponed) then in connection with that defendant's testimony as a cooperating witness (if they are called by either side to testify).

    Parent
    Thanks (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 10, 2023 at 07:17:12 PM EST
    for all your answers Peter!

    Parent
    Nice to see you (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 05:30:46 PM EST
    I been saying that was not going to work.

    Parent
    The FDA has (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by KeysDan on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    approved the new Covid booster today.  The CDC is expected to follow up tomorrow, Tuesday, with an advisory to discuss administrative tactics for the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna  vaccines.  

    After a final decision by the CDC Director, thr vaccines will be made available to pharmacies and other health care systems in short order.  Private insurers and Medicare are expected to provide the vaccine at no cost. The idea of "booster" is likely to give way to the idea of an annual immunization shot.

    and of course, (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 04:00:47 PM EST
    the Floriduh Surgeon General has warned "Floriduh Man" not to take the shot.


    Parent
    Coujld that be (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by KeysDan on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 05:14:19 PM EST
    DeSantis' public health appointee, Dr. Joseph Ladapo, who aids and abets the idea that gynecological problems are due to having dreams of s3x with demons?   Why yes, I believe it is.

    Parent
    The CDC Director (none / 0) (#126)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 08:41:47 PM EST
    has given final approval for the updated Covid booster for those six months old and above.

    Parent
    HA HA (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 05:07:39 PM EST

    Joe Biden has a literal Trump card to play against the House's new impeachment inquiry.

    In January 2020, the Donald Trump-led Justice Department formally declared that impeachment inquiries by the House are invalid unless the chamber takes formal votes to authorize them.

    That opinion -- issued by the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel -- came in response to then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's decision to launch an impeachment inquiry into Trump without initially holding a vote for it. Not only is it still on the books, it is binding on the current administration as it responds to Tuesday's announcement by Speaker Kevin McCarthy to authorize an impeachment inquiry into Biden, again without a vote.

    Formal opinions of the Office of Legal Counsel (none / 0) (#115)
    by Peter G on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 05:28:31 PM EST
    are "binding" only on Executive Branch agencies, not on C0ngress (or the courts). So this opinion may "bind" the DoJ and the White House on how they respond to McCarthy's bogus "inquiry," it does not have any impact on whether the "inqury" can proceed in general.

    Parent
    What it does (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 05:35:04 PM EST
    is give them a great reason to say talk to the hand until you vote.

    It's says it's binding on the administration response.  He, Biden, could change it but I don't know why he would

    Parent

    It is now an impeachable offense (none / 0) (#117)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 05:52:56 PM EST
    for having the gall to be a Democrat in the White House. Certainly a high crime and misdemeanor.

    Parent
    I read they have been preparing for this (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 06:07:13 PM EST
    for months.  I don't think they plan to roll over.  This gives them permission to say we will ignore you until you vote.

    They do not have the votes or they would have voted already.

    This will blow up in their faces

    Parent

    So (none / 0) (#122)
    by FlJoe on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 06:34:07 PM EST
    what if it blows up in their faces? They will just move on to the next crazy scheme.

    The base is so fkng stupid they think Wiley Coyote was brilliant.

    Parent

    It's funny you mention cartoons (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 06:40:31 PM EST
    I was just thinking that if you can take a step back
    you almost have to admire the showmanship.
    The way Trump is exiting the stage.  Straight from slightly less that 50% chance of being president to prison.

    It reminded me of that WB cartoon about the magician and the fabulous trick, where he blows himself up, that he could only do once.

    Parent

    This (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 06:43:43 PM EST
    Class act... (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by desertswine on Wed Sep 13, 2023 at 12:37:22 AM EST
    Boebert gets kicked out of Denver theater.

    The incident report, which did not include any names, said two patrons were asked to leave the theater about five minutes after the second act began of the touring Broadway musical "Beetlejuice." It claimed the two patrons were vaping, singing, recording and "causing a disturbance."

    "They told me they would not leave. I told them that they need to leave the theater and if they do not, they will be trespassing. The patrons said they would not leave. I told them I would [be] going to get Denver Police. They said go get them," an usher said in the incident report, according to The Denver Post.  Police reportedly arrived and stayed in the lobby until the two patrons left.

    ---The Hill

    My rural country is right on the center line (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 16, 2023 at 04:35:58 PM EST
    One of the kid's favorites, back in the day... (5.00 / 2) (#202)
    by desertswine on Mon Sep 25, 2023 at 05:44:06 PM EST
    David McCallum, the Scottish-born actor who became a surprise sensation as the enigmatic Russian spy Illya Kuryakin on "The Man From U.N.C.L.E." in the 1960s and found television stardom again almost 40 years later on the hit series "N.C.I.S.," died on Monday in New York. He was 90.

    Judge Skeptical of a 19 Person Trial (2.00 / 2) (#24)
    by RickyJim on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 03:29:19 PM EST
    I agree with Judge McAfee and Counselor Grubman about having several instead of one RICO event.
    Chesebro's attorney Scott Grubman argued that trying Chesebro with the other defendants would be unfair, since Chesebro only engaged in a portion of the conduct alleged in the indictment. Grubman argued that the Fulton County case boils down to three distinct conspiracies: one related to the alternate elector scheme, a second related to tampering with ballot computers in Coffee County, and a third related to the effort to intimate poll worker Ruby Freeman.

    "Mr. Chesebro is only concerned in terms of the evidence or allegations with what I'm going to call the alternate elector alleged conspiracy," Grubman said.

    Since there were 3 separate conspiracies, why not have 3 trials, one for each? I don't buy the prosecution's argument that each trial would require exactly the same set of witnesses and evidence. The Jan. 6 capitol rioters were involved in a conspiracy. Why did they all get separate trials?

    Chesebro's (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 04:24:57 PM EST
    argument is weak because he was part of the conspiracy even though he didn't directly conspire with Kraken. My understanding from local legal experts is that since it is a RICO case none of that applies. It's an argument apparently often made but never successful.

    There probably will never be all 19 at trial simply from a logistic standpoint.

    Parent

    It's going to be (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 04:41:21 PM EST
    Cheese and Kraken with a side of whine.

    Parent
    The Whine (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 04:43:12 PM EST
    being Eastman who they say is going for an early trial too.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#32)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 04:58:24 PM EST
    I have heard that about Eastman too but as far as local reporting, he hasn't filed anything yet. Maybe he is just too busy with his disbarment proceedings. Or maybe he is waiting to file for an early trial so he gets the next session which starts in November.

    Parent
    The judge (none / 0) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 05:09:55 PM EST
    just ruled that Cheese and Kraken are going to trial together RICO husband and wife.

    Parent
    The judge (none / 0) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 05:09:55 PM EST
    just ruled that Cheese and Kraken are going to trial together RICO husband and wife.

    Parent
    The theory of the indictment is (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Peter G on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 07:16:23 PM EST
    not that there were three separate conspiracies with a common objective. The indictment charges that there was a single criminal ("RICO") enterprise that engaged in a pattern of criminal activity, and that all 19 defendants were "associated with" and "participated in carrying out the affairs of" that enterprise. If the prosecutors do not prove that overarching charge beyond a reasonable doubt, the defendants are entitled to be acquitted. But they don't get to say in advance, before trial, "No, we organized our criminal activity differently than you say we did." The trial will decide that. Of course, if what the indictment describes does not amount to a RICO enterprise under the law, the defendants can file motions to dismiss that count without a trial.

    Parent
    Has a Challenge to RICO Reached the SCOTUS? (none / 0) (#42)
    by RickyJim on Thu Sep 07, 2023 at 10:27:10 AM EST
    It wouldn't surprise me if the whole concept will someday declared to be unconstitutional. Its abuse has been noted elsewhere in this thread.  I think that Fani Willis could have found other charges for each of the defendants in her Jan 6 case.

    Parent
    The definition of a RICO "enterprise" (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Peter G on Thu Sep 07, 2023 at 05:37:19 PM EST
    in the statute, and the kind of conduct that violates it, is modeled on a Mafia family. The courts are not going to invalidate the statute, which works well when used properly against that sort of top-down, multifaceted crime gang. A court many invalidate the misuse of the statute, but they will not strike it down entirely. Relatedly, the "Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization" title, with the acronym of "RICO," was chosen deliberately as an ironic reference to the 1931 Jimmy Cagney gangster movie, "Little Ceasar", where his dying line is "Mother of Mercy, is this the end of Rico?"

    Parent
    The GA AG (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 06:37:40 PM EST
    I have not read the Stop Cop City indictment (none / 0) (#38)
    by Peter G on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 07:20:55 PM EST
    but from what I have read about it, it is an outrageous misuse of the state RICO statute and a gross violation of the First Amendment.

    Parent
    The legal (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 07, 2023 at 08:56:58 AM EST
    experts here agree with you simply because there appears to be no criminality in protesting. The people that have read the indictment agree with you on this.

    Carr is a POS who was head of the GOP governor's association aiding in attempting to overturn the 2020 election. He should be prosecuted.

    Parent

    A little history: Indictments against political (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Peter G on Thu Sep 07, 2023 at 09:25:09 AM EST
    movements like this were common in the 1920s into the '30s, targeting anarchists and early communists. The Supreme Court did not stop them. Those precedents underlay the Red Scare indictments against Communist Party leaders and members in the 1950s under the Smith Act, which the Supreme Court at first upheld but later reversed course.  By the early '60s courts had articulated some pretty strict First Amendment principles to differentiate between those who "conspire" (agree to achieve political ends by criminal activity) and those who merely "agree" with the ends, and express that through speech and demonstrating, without directly participating in or aiding illegalities. Those precedents were reiterated in the '60s and '70s to protect the NAACP and other civil rights groups, as well as anti-Vietnam War organizers. The same precedents tend to explain who was indicted and who wasn't around January 6 actions. Same with who was prosecuted and who wasn't for the BLM uprisings in May 2020. So the state of the law is pretty good on this now, and should help those charged in Atlanta.

    Parent
    Yes it.appears to be (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 08:04:35 PM EST
    He seemed to think 19 was a lot

    Parent
    Well, I guess I posted that last comment (none / 0) (#1)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 07:49:03 AM EST
    on the wrong thread.  We still have no electricity, but the guy is allegedly arriving around 10:00 this morning.  Anyway it's good practice for the big tropical storms out in the Atlantic that could become hurricanes.
    The Honda generator I have is balanced for charging iPhones and other devices, so I'm doing that now.  Hopefully we will have electricity soon since it's already 86 degrees here with an index of 95 degrees.

    So (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 10:55:06 AM EST
    I'm watching this story on CNN that I was reading about earlier.
    It's about a "controversial" new law in TN about holding third graders back who can't read.

    Maybe I'm just really old but when did this become controversial?  

    My question (none / 0) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 11:28:29 AM EST
    is is it not being able to read at all or not being able to read on grade level?

    And here in GA not being able to read is a hold back in 1st grade thing.

    Parent

    It's reading at grade level (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 11:55:25 AM EST
    When I was in school if you couldn't do the work you were usually held back.

    Reading writing or whatever.

    That's seems to be controversial.  

    Parent

    Well, I can (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 02:48:32 PM EST
    tell you I have a learning disabled son who was held back in Kindergarten because he could not do the work which meant everything. We later found out after testing he was/is ADHD. He never got to grade level in math his entire school career because of this. So I think the issue may be solely basing it on reading if they can do the rest of the work.

    Parent
    It is kind (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 02:50:05 PM EST
    of hysterical here in GA lately with all the RICO defendants acting like crabs stuck in a pot each trying to get out.

    Trafficking Cubans? (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 04:20:45 PM EST
    22 years (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 04:55:01 PM EST
    Wow (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 05:47:47 PM EST
    He got a serious sentence. I feel that all this has to be keeping the magats kind of down and low these days.

    Parent
    All the Proud Boys and Oath Keeper leaders (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Peter G on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 08:01:18 PM EST
    who were convicted got "serious sentences."  22 years is quite severe. I will be curious to learn, if I can, why the judge thought the sentence for Tarrio that was "sufficient, but not greater than necessary" (the legal standard for a federal sentence) had to be more than 20 years, and four years longer than Stewart Rhodes'. Presumably the judge tried to explain this in connection with imposing that particular punishment.

    Parent
    Rhodes might get more (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 09:00:51 AM EST

    Prosecutors are dissatisfied with the severity of the sentences handed down by the federal judge overseeing the case. The Justice Department on Wednesday appealed the sentences handed down to seven members of the Oath Keepers -- including founder Stewart Rhodes -- for their roles in the Jan.Jul 12, 2023
    https://www.politico.com > news



    Parent
    Such appeals, seeking a higher sentence, (none / 0) (#21)
    by Peter G on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 01:06:05 PM EST
    are very rarely successful. Not sure whether they are somewhat more likely, or less likely, to succeed than a defendant's appeal of the length of their sentence. But both are among the longest of longshots. Appellate courts' deference to the trial judge's discretion is extreme.

    Parent
    Donald Trump can not possibly (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 05:50:44 PM EST
    now be given less than 22 years.  

    That's the floor.

    Parent

    He will die (none / 0) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 07:23:32 PM EST
    in some sort of confinement whether an actual jail or a cell in the desert by himself.

    Parent
    Hopefully (none / 0) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 07:34:42 PM EST
    My comment was "aspirational" but I first thought yours was about dessert.  Yes.  He probably won't care as long as there is dessert.


    Parent
    Wow (none / 0) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 05:47:48 PM EST
    He got a serious sentence. I feel that all this has to be keeping the magats kind of down and low these days.

    Parent
    Is "extrajudicial" another way of (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 06:08:07 PM EST
    saying illegal?

    Justice Department lawyers complained again to Judge Tanya Chutkan about Donald Trump's barrage of social media posts about his prosecution.

    From a court filing: "Defendant's daily extrajudicial statements that threaten to prejudice the jury pool in this case."



    In this context (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Peter G on Tue Sep 05, 2023 at 07:55:35 PM EST
    "extrajudicial" means "made outside of a courtroom."

    Parent
    Peter is correct, it means (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 03:37:42 PM EST
    a statemout made outside of court.

    Parent
    Perry (none / 0) (#23)
    by jmacWA on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 03:26:55 PM EST
    HAS got to go.  I'm not in York (Allentown) so I hope Chuck has some good news for us.   The guy is a disgrace.

    Texans have a new option (none / 0) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 03:44:55 PM EST
    Row vs Wade (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 03:57:12 PM EST
    The Rio Grande

    Parent
    Having (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 06, 2023 at 04:21:28 PM EST
    visited Mexico many times I don't know how they ever enforced those anti-abortion laws in the first place.

    Parent
    Peter (none / 0) (#47)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Sep 07, 2023 at 06:25:12 PM EST
    I had to delete your comment. You were obviously being sarcastic but it reads as if you are advocating physical harm to the person. Sorry!

    My comment noting that a Democrat has (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by Peter G on Thu Sep 07, 2023 at 06:41:20 PM EST
    announced a run against Scott Perry? It wasn't sarcastic. The expression you may have taken issue with was a direct quote of the headline from the linked Philadelphia Inquirer article, which literally described the Marine Corps veteran credentials of the candidate. I wasn't even aware it could be read any other way.

    Parent
    If you take down Peter G's comment, (none / 0) (#54)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 11:27:56 AM EST
    you should probably remove mine as well. I insinuated Perry could be taken out with the right ammo. That can be read many way. As in political ammo. But I suppose a person not being able to read nuance could assume actual ammunition.

    Parent
    The Special Grand Jury recommended 39 indictments (none / 0) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 10:06:23 AM EST
    I'll offer my own speculation here. (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 05:10:07 PM EST
    Fulton County D.A. Fani Willis is likely not done with indictments. Donald Trump and the other 18 charged under the RICO statutes are simply the first tranche of defendants.

    That's just my gut instinct. Sen. Graham and Co. are still in the D.A.'s legal crosshairs. She just hasn't pulled the trigger yet. But she will.

    I hope that report sends shivers down their spines. Oh, wait - Miss Lindsey doesn't have one. My bad.

    ;-D

    Parent

    Is it unusual to release that kind (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 05:32:01 PM EST
    of list?

    Parent
    I have (none / 0) (#66)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 08:01:41 PM EST
    never heard of it happening before here in GA but the press sued to get the report released. So that may be why this one was released and not others.

    Parent
    Being (none / 0) (#65)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 08:00:33 PM EST
    too wishful here because apparently there just wasn't enough against Lady G to issue an indictment.  The rest of them may have worries though. Some of the ones that were fake electors have already turned state's witness so that's why they didn't end up being indicted. However I am curious as to what kind of deal they got. Probably probation or we would have heard about it IMO.

    Parent
    I actually (none / 0) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 10:46:11 AM EST
    was sad about Flynn not getting indicted. I hope Jack Smith will get him.

    Parent
    And this (none / 0) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 10:47:12 AM EST
    ought to quiet the nuts for a bit since Fani didn't indict everybody.

    I wonder if there will be separate indictments for that cast of clowns.

    Parent

    Mark Meadows (none / 0) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 08, 2023 at 05:12:32 PM EST
    lost his attempt to move his trial to federal court. The others who are trying like David Shafer (fake elector) should just really give it up.

    I also read that if you get a trial in Fulton the jury pool is +45 Biden and if you get moved to federal court it's +35 Biden. So the odds aren't a whole lot better as far as jury pool goes. Even in Fulton though you could get a MAGA juror who won't vote to convict.

    There was 1 that declined to convict anyone from the special grand jury report that was released today.

    Trump wants to terminate Constitution (none / 0) (#70)
    by john horse on Sat Sep 09, 2023 at 01:11:02 PM EST

    According to CNN Trump calls for the termination of the Constitution in Truth Social post

    "Do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution," Trump wrote in a post on the social network Truth Social

    Unlike the rest of us, Trump doesn't believe he has to follow rules and regulations, including the Constitution.  


    Ridiculous to suggest you can tell (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Peter G on Sun Sep 10, 2023 at 02:45:25 PM EST
    what Tr*mp "believes" by what he writes and posts (that one was in early December 2022). He has no "beliefs" at all, imho. Just impulses and various psychological conditions.

    Parent
    If they show you who they are, believe them (none / 0) (#111)
    by john horse on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 09:20:45 AM EST
    I agree that Trump, like most con men, says many things that he doesn't believe.  But deep down Trump is an authoritarian, and therefore, a threat to our democracy.  I mean there is nothing more antidemocratic than saying you want to "terminate" the constitution.  

    I've been thinking of arguments I can use with my conservative relatives regarding why they shouldn't support Trump.   Most conservatives profess to deeply believe in rules, regulations and the constitution.  So why do they support someone who doesn't.

    Parent

    Because they are in a cult (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 10:42:27 AM EST
    I feel your pain.  But I gave up on this years ago.  You can not reason with them.  Facts do not matter.

    If you quote him about this they will say he's kidding.  I don't believe they believe that but that the answer they are trained like seals to give.

    Parent

    Yes, (none / 0) (#113)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 02:31:51 PM EST
    if they are going to get off the train tracks they have to figure it out themselves. Attempting to talk to them is like banging your head on brick wall.

    Parent
    Given how close the two parties are (none / 0) (#119)
    by john horse on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 06:10:41 PM EST
    being able to peel off even a tiny percentage from Trump can make the difference between victory and defeat.  I'm thinking of the small number of Republicans who are neither MAGA or QANON.

    We should always keep the light on for them.

    Parent

    You are talking about (none / 0) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 06:28:29 PM EST
    the good part of my family tree
    :)

    I have had some recent family conversions.  A couple,  so yeah.  

    Parent

    By conversions (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 06:29:45 PM EST
    I mean they have turned against Trump.  Looking for someone else or saying they will stay home.

    Parent
    Personally (none / 0) (#128)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 13, 2023 at 06:29:13 AM EST
    I have found that those were driven away by four years of Trump or the insurrection already.

    Parent
    Personally (none / 0) (#129)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 13, 2023 at 06:29:13 AM EST
    I have found that those were driven away by four years of Trump or the insurrection already.

    Parent
    Not everyone (none / 0) (#135)
    by john horse on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 08:17:13 AM EST
    For example, there is Mitt Romney.
    Oh wait. . .  never mind.

    Parent
    Armando (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 09, 2023 at 02:23:48 PM EST
    posits a question on twitter about what happens when Trump is convicted? That is assuming he will be out on bail pending appeal.

    I think the delegates at the convention with throw out his nomination and nominate someone else if he wins the primary. Perhaps they will go with a convicted criminal as their nominee but I think that would even be too much for them. However they have shown they have no bottom so maybe it's anyone's guess.

    This sounds plausible (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 09, 2023 at 02:53:25 PM EST
    But if they did this IMO it would be entirely for history and appearances.  
    Since half the party would absolutely stay home or write in Trump.
    Since they have not shown much interest in history or appearances they might just go down with the Capt on the bridge.

    Still don't think it will get that far.  While admitting I have no idea what else would happen.

    Parent

    It sure (none / 0) (#79)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 09, 2023 at 07:00:36 PM EST
    is hard to know but it's also not an uncertain bet to say they are willing to go down with the ship because most of them have shown zero ability to stand up to Trump. Brian Kemp gets all kinds of kudos for just keeping himself out of jail and unindicted but even he says he will vote for Trump.

    I'm sure there will be calls from the usual suspects like Romney and McConnell for Trump to drop out but we all know he won't.

    Parent

    It sure (none / 0) (#80)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 09, 2023 at 07:00:36 PM EST
    is hard to know but it's also not an uncertain bet to say they are willing to go down with the ship because most of them have shown zero ability to stand up to Trump. Brian Kemp gets all kinds of kudos for just keeping himself out of jail and unindicted but even he says he will vote for Trump.

    I'm sure there will be calls from the usual suspects like Romney and McConnell for Trump to drop out but we all know he won't.

    Parent

    My life is so exciting (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 09, 2023 at 03:01:47 PM EST
    I've been going back in history on this site.
    it starts with his 5th Ave comment
    This is a killer thread that starts with this comment which has to be one of my high points here.  It's dated.

    Why it's not funny (5.00 / 6) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jan 24, 2016 at 07:43:42 PM EST
    Not that hardly anyone here would think it was but apparently many do.   I've been reading it all afternoon.
    I have been saying for months, long before most here were taking him seriously, that we should take him seriously.   That was in part because of conversations I had with a very old friend of mine who very early on was making comparisons with a certain notorious historical figure who will here remain nameless because 1.) the comment would probably be deleted and 2.) many might stop reading if it was.
    But stay with me for just a minute
    It is my opinion that we are at this point dangerously deep in personality cult.  It was often said that Obanas support was more or less a personality cult.  Particularly by those on the right but also by more than a few right in these threads.  This is BS of the highest order IMO but in a way the constant harping on it probably helped pave the way for an actual honest to god personality cult.  IMO
    Obama had actual policy proposals.   Plenty of them.  What policy has Donald proposed?  In fact what of any substance has he ever said about anything.  Tell me the last time a person was expected to be the nominee of a major party, or even a minor  one, with saying one single solitary thing of substance about anything.

    If this is not the definition of personality cult I don't know what would be.

    My old friend made a few points about Donald.  He has picked  an ethnic group to be the enemy within and to blame all the countries problems on.  Mexicans.    And he has picked an enemy without to whip up fear and loathing.  Muslims.   Like this other person people are not taking him seriously.  This allowed this person to take power while most people were still joking about it being possible.
    Finally there is this.    In a 1990 Vanity Fair interview Ivana Trump said he kept a collection of Hitlers speeches by his bed.    The book is called My New Order and it was the sequel to Mein Kampf.  This was later confirmed by Donald himself in a separate interview.

    Look, I know it's not 1939.  I'm just sayin.

    Reply to This

    Actually, I think it is 1939

    Wow I had (none / 0) (#81)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 09, 2023 at 07:08:53 PM EST
    no I idea I was prophetic when I said this:

    Everything he's said so far and a lot of it has been pretty bad has not only not lost his supporters but gained him supporters.

    LOL.

    Parent

    Lots of the old crew (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 10, 2023 at 06:47:26 PM EST
    That was literally in The Before Time.
    I enjoyed reading that thread.

    Parent
    A coworker (none / 0) (#82)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 09, 2023 at 07:17:03 PM EST
    of mine, ex-Republican BTW, said that Donald is very good at zeroing in on people's fears and using that fear. She is dead on about this. There are a whole lot of white people in this country afraid of the changing demographics and that is what they need to "save" America from.

    I would say the political savior thing started with Reagan in 1980 and the political Jesus thing started with Bush. Thank heavens no one thinks Joe Biden is Jesus. Evangelicals believe Trump was sent by God calling him "his David". And people wonder why Christianity is in decline in the US. The answers are simple but no one wants to listen.

    Parent

    Lets all clutch our pearls (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 10, 2023 at 06:09:24 PM EST
    I can't (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 10, 2023 at 07:15:47 PM EST
    read the article but I am glad to hear it. So scream at me or whatever. In 2016 every time Brock's name came up too many on our side had a literal meltdown. The only person that we go high when they go low worked for was Obama and maybe that was because he was African American and couldn't go low? I don't know but I do know we're up against a bunch of power hungry autocrats and unfortunately the old rules don't apply.

    Parent
    He can start (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by KeysDan on Sun Sep 10, 2023 at 09:03:58 PM EST
    with. Ginni.

    Parent
    There has (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 04:25:54 AM EST
    certainly has been a lot of dirt coming out on Ginni lately not even related to J6 mostly about the years of corrupt dealings with Leonard Leo.

    Parent
    Ginni puts me (none / 0) (#134)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 13, 2023 at 02:26:35 PM EST
    in mind of the Mayor's wife in The Witches of Eastwick.

    Clarence may end up bashing her with a fire poker.

    Parent

    9/11 (none / 0) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 08:29:10 AM EST
    22 years ago this morning I had recently bought my first home.
    Pretty much every morning of my adult life I wake up and turn on the news.  It's like feeding the dog or making coffee.

    That morning for whatever strange reason I did not. I took my coffee and went straight out into the yard which I had been working on for days.

    Around noon (LA time) one of my new neighbors popped up over the back fence and asked me if I had seen the news.  I guess maybe he had heard the news coming from my house every morning but this one.

    That how I found out.

    9/11/2001 (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 09:06:16 AM EST
    Was my father's 85th birthday, with a family celebration planned. Did not happen and was never made up. September 11 is also the anniversary of the Pinochet/Kissinger coup in Chile against the democratic government of Salvador Allende.

    Parent
    On 9/11 1964 during the coup (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by fishcamp on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 09:32:25 AM EST
    Peter speaks about I was on a train traveling from the south of Chile to Santiago.  I had been ski racing for a month in Argentina and had not heard about the devastating problems going on in Chile.  Upon arriving the train station was total chaos.  I managed to get to a hotel downtown and watched the fighting from a window.  The next day I walked across the street to a mailbox to send a postcard home to my parents.  There were flames shooting out of the mailbox, and water gun vehicles pinning groups to buildings which their powerful water.  Fortunately I was able to make it back up to the mountain resort of La Parva where it was safe and quiet.  After about ten days things calmed down enough for me to get to the airport and catch an old prop airplane to Panama and Miami.

    Parent
    I should perhaps have mentioned (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 07:41:46 PM EST
    that my parents lived (and I grew up) seven miles into New Jersey from the George Washington Bridge to upper Manhattan, and thus about 15 miles from the World Trade Center.

    Parent
    Me too... (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by desertswine on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 11:22:13 PM EST
    But by 2001 I was long gone seeking bluer skies.

    Parent
    9/11 (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 05:13:59 PM EST
    was also the day Salvador Allende "committed suicide."

    Parent
    Here is a video that I hadn't seen before... (none / 0) (#101)
    by desertswine on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 12:37:40 PM EST
    of the second plane, apparently taken from a tour boat.  Language warning.

    Parent
    I was (none / 0) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 09:06:04 AM EST
    at home with a 5 week old baby. A neighbor called me to turn on the news. She said an airplane flew into the twin towers. I thought it was a Cessna or other small passenger plane since that is something that happens here from time to time. At the beginning nobody was sure what to make of what was happening then we went into full crazy a few days later where baby powder left in the Walmart was now thought to be Anthrax.

    Parent
    It's worth a try I guess (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 03:59:40 PM EST
    Well, no, actually, I would say it was not (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 07:52:07 PM EST
    worth a try. The cited comments by the judge provide no grounds for recusal, as I wrote here a month ago.  And my general instincts based on decades as a criminal defense attorney is that filing a baseless motion for recusal, accusing the judge of being biased against your client, does not raise your chances of the client getting a fair shake in court, nor does it enhance your credibility as a lawyer.

    Parent
    What was the point of this? (none / 0) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 08:27:38 PM EST
    Seriously.  It's up to the judge, they say.  So I would say, clearly she is not going to recuse herself.
    So whats the point?  Kill time? Some kind of long shot appeal option?

    Parent
    I kind of smacks of lawyers' yielding (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 11, 2023 at 08:39:56 PM EST
    their good sense and judgment to the insistent demands of an irrational, bullying client.

    Parent
    I have heard (none / 0) (#110)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 05:48:08 AM EST
    pandering to the base. After all the complaining about Chutkan I guess he had to do this and also to grift. I sued that radical left Marxist judge donate here.

    Parent
    Fun football fact. (none / 0) (#125)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Sep 12, 2023 at 07:32:42 PM EST
    Josh Allen has thrown more completed passes to Jets than Aaron Rodgers.

    Don't rub it in (none / 0) (#148)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 05:07:25 PM EST
    sez me, as a Bills fan, and probably sez, Aaron 'Out For the Season' Rodgers.

    Parent
    I got no issue with the Bills. (none / 0) (#156)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Sep 17, 2023 at 05:22:42 PM EST
    Except when they are playing the Ravens.

    It was a jab at Rodgers. I am not a fan

    Parent

    I will say (none / 0) (#174)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 19, 2023 at 03:35:38 PM EST
    that over the years, when the Ravens play the Steelers, I'm the world's biggest Ravens fan.

    Parent
    A billion here a billion there.... (none / 0) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 13, 2023 at 11:58:08 AM EST
    .....pretty soon you are talking about real money.

    Political Ad Spending Set to Reach Record $10.2 Billion in 2024 Campaign Cycle

    I think ad spending has reached a point of diminishing returns.

    Denied (none / 0) (#131)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 13, 2023 at 12:59:11 PM EST

    This matter appears before the Court on Defendant Mark R. Meadows's
    Emergency Motion for a Stay Pending Appeal.1 Doc. No. [74]. The State filed its
    expedited opposition response. Doc No. [78]. The Court has reviewed the
    Emergency Motion and concludes that Meadows failed to show a stay should be
    granted. Thus, the Court DENIES Meadows's Motion for an Emergency Stay.
    Doc. No. [74].

    Link


    That link is for the order of the (none / 0) (#132)
    by Peter G on Wed Sep 13, 2023 at 01:19:51 PM EST
    District Judge. The Eleventh Circuit (appeals court) will issue its order on the stay application next, followed by either Justice Thomas (or, if he refers the matter to the Court) the Supreme Court as a whole. The rules require that any appellant who seeks a stay must try each level in sequence, starting at the bottom.  The last of the three stages is the one that matters most, of course.

    Parent
    Onto the supreme (none / 0) (#133)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 13, 2023 at 01:25:12 PM EST
    court now? It would seem to be a waste of money and time but then he's been doing a lot of Hail Mary's lately.

    Parent
    Hey Ga6th (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 10:41:06 AM EST
    Long time here

    If I show up here sounding intelligent let me know on Elmo's hell site since the hack LOL. Will ya? Might have to ask J to change my password.

    Parent

    Good to hear (none / 0) (#138)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 01:28:55 PM EST
    from you!

    Was TL hacked? I haven't even run across you on the hell site. Are you doing much there?

    Parent

    Good to hear (none / 0) (#139)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 01:28:55 PM EST
    from you!

    Was TL hacked? I haven't even run across you on the hell site. Are you doing much there?

    Parent

    Tracy!! (none / 0) (#142)
    by Peter G on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 03:01:10 PM EST
    I have definitely missed you. How's the family? And how are you? What have you been up to?

    Parent
    No Trial for 19 in October (none / 0) (#136)
    by RickyJim on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 09:48:28 AM EST
    I guess that forcing a defendant to accept a speedy trial is illegal in Georgia. Or maybe the judge doesn't agree with the prosecution that a 19 person RICO trial is feasible.  I wonder if their threat of presenting the entire RICO case with all those witnesses in the Oct trial will really happen.  There are enough non RICO charges against Chesebro and Powell to send them to jail.

    McAfee wrote "that severing the remaining 17 co-defendants is simply a procedural and logistical inevitability."

    "Severance is an absolute necessity. Additional divisions of these 17 defendants may well be required," the judge added. "That is a decision for another day once the many anticipated pretrial motions have been resolved and a realistic trial date approaches."



    They will all be tried (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 02:10:34 PM EST
    on the RICO charges. And because Fani asked the judge to make them wave their right to a speedy trial if they don't want to go in OCT there will be two groups (possibly more division later probably not) the early trial in Oct and everyone else whenever it happens.  

    Most people expect some of the remaining 17 to plead out.

    Parent

    According to the Prosecution (none / 0) (#141)
    by RickyJim on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 02:53:19 PM EST
    Each RICO trial will take 4 months require at least 150 witnesses. Judge McAfee has told the remaining defendants that they will be part of the first trial unless they waive their speedy trial right by the time it begins in October. I don't know of any besides Trump who has done that yet.  If they all do, it remains unknown whether the judge will allow a single 17 person RICO trial.

    Parent
    They have all waived (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 03:20:50 PM EST
    Not According to the Article you Cite (none / 0) (#144)
    by RickyJim on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 03:25:02 PM EST
    The judge, however, said that any defendant who does not waive their right to speedy trial before Oct. 23 will "immediately" join the trial. Trump has already waived his speedy trial rights.


    Parent
    Maybe this is not clear (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 04:00:25 PM EST
    As I understand it
    The judge agreed with Willis that if they want to be severed from the Oct trial they will be with everyone else.
    This was done by making them waive the right to a speedy trial.  This is to prevent a cascade of defendants saying they want speedy trials to end up with different trial dates strung out for the next few years.

    This way there's SO FAR two trial dates.  Oct and everyone else.

    Parent

    Alrighty then (none / 0) (#145)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 03:47:56 PM EST
    I'll try one more link and I'm done

    Trump, 16 others to be tried separately from Powell, Chesebro

    A judge in the Georgia election subversion trial ruled that former President Donald Trump and 16 other co-defendants will be tried separately from Trump's former attorneys, Sidney Powell and Kenneth Chesebro.



    Parent
    Text of Judge's Ruling Not Online Yet (none / 0) (#147)
    by RickyJim on Thu Sep 14, 2023 at 04:20:18 PM EST
    But the only way I can make sense of the reporting is that the judge said or implied that a defendant first must waive their speedy trial right in order to get severance.  He didn't want new speedy trial and severance requests after Oct 23 when the speedy trial starts.

    Parent
    Text of Ruling Available (none / 0) (#151)
    by RickyJim on Fri Sep 15, 2023 at 11:40:35 AM EST
    Link.
    I don't claim to understand all of the 7 page document.  In particular this footnote:
    3 Should any defendant who has not yet filed a waiver invoke the statutory speedy trial deadline before the trial of Defendants Chesebro and Powell has commenced, those defendants will immediately join the October 23rd trial. And the Court will revisit the issue of severance for any defendant who has not filed a waiver by September 29th. Regardless, the Court has received assurances that other members of the Fulton County bench stand ready to begin a second trial within the November/December term.
    Is he saying that there might be another RICO trial, conducted simultaneous to the one of Chesebro and Powell?


    Parent
    Yes, that is what the judge (none / 0) (#154)
    by Peter G on Sat Sep 16, 2023 at 11:14:09 PM EST
    is saying. According to footnote 1 of the opinion, 14 of the 17 remaining defendants have filed motions to sever their cases from the speedy trial demanded by Chesebro and Powell. The judge is granting a severance to all 17. Nine of the 17 have also expressly waived their own right to a speedy trial. The judge is directly the remaining eight to say expressly that they do not wish to avail themselves of (i.e., that they waive0 their rights under Georgia's unusually strict speedy trial rule. If they do not waive speedy trial, he may revoke the severance or may pass their cases on to be tried in December before a different Fulton County judge. At least, that's what I think he is saying in this opinion.

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    Was There a Mistake in Setting Trial Start? (none / 0) (#157)
    by RickyJim on Sun Sep 17, 2023 at 08:03:40 PM EST
    It seems that Fulton County court terms begin the first Monday of every two months starting in January.  The RICO indictment was delivered during the July term.  The defendants had to the end of the Sept. term, i.e. the first Monday in November, Nov. 6, to ask for a speedy trial.  If the "speedy trial" was set for Nov. 7, instead of Oct. 23, would that have avoided the prospect of two simultaneous RICO trials?

    Parent
    Is It All About Picking a Jury? (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by RickyJim on Mon Sep 18, 2023 at 02:23:19 PM EST
    From the 9/14 document:
    Second, to eliminate any doubts that the statutory speedy trial deadline has been met, the Court will endeavor to have a jury selected and sworn by November 3, 2023. See O.C.G.A. § 17-7-170(b) ("If the defendant is not tried . . ., the defendant shall be absolutely discharged and acquitted")Bowman v. State, 315 Ga. 707, 711 (2023) ("Without the [O.C.G.A. § 15-12-139] oath, there is no jury; and without the jury, there is no trial."); Bailey v. State, 209 Ga. App. 390, 391 (1993) (finding defendant's speedy trial "began and jeopardy attached when the jury was selected and sworn")

    My new guess is that since Nov. 3 is the last day of the August/September term, the judge fears the defendants will be automatically acquitted if somehow jury selection goes past that date.  Another abomination from the Georgia legal code.  Have a look at this article about another Georgia RICO case in which jury selection has been going on for 9 months.  Fortunately for the prosecution in that case, nobody asked for a speedy trial.

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    I Meant September/October Term (none / 0) (#162)
    by RickyJim on Mon Sep 18, 2023 at 04:37:21 PM EST
    I (none / 0) (#158)
    by FlJoe on Mon Sep 18, 2023 at 08:50:13 AM EST
    think they skip November December term

    Parent
    Paxton is not impeached (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 16, 2023 at 04:31:41 PM EST

    Texas AG Ken Paxton was acquitted at his impeachment trial. He still faces legal troubles

    The republican party is not really a political party anymore.

    Nope (none / 0) (#155)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 17, 2023 at 12:55:52 PM EST
    they are an autocratic cult.

    Parent
    Has DeSantis (none / 0) (#159)
    by KeysDan on Mon Sep 18, 2023 at 12:54:25 PM EST
    Now acknowledged what most everyone has long observed----that his Republican primary presidential bid has completed its circling the drain?  

    DeSantis is defending TFG--he is not a Putin puppet,  he is strong and had a great Russian policy (just don't ask what it was).

    I suspect DeSantis has turned his hopes to being TFG's running mate.  Does not seem to fit the non-threatening, lickspittle qualities of a Trump running mate (cf. Pence)but Trump is transactional and would take him, pudd'n, boots and all if he felt it would help him.. And, too, whatever hopes he might have had with "Republican stars" such as Noem and Boebert may have dimmed.  But, then again, they maybe just what he and the base are looking for.

    Interesting (none / 0) (#164)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 18, 2023 at 07:20:04 PM EST
    you say this because his campaign has been circling the drain for quite a while and he has continually denied it is happening.

    Personally I think DeSantis would be about at the bottom of the list for VP. I think Kari Lake, Marge, & Elise Stefanik are in the top tier with maybe Nikki Haley. He seems to be interested in a woman VP because I guess he thinks it will work against Kamala.

    Parent

    Interesting (none / 0) (#165)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 18, 2023 at 07:20:04 PM EST
    you say this because his campaign has been circling the drain for quite a while and he has continually denied it is happening.

    Personally I think DeSantis would be about at the bottom of the list for VP. I think Kari Lake, Marge, & Elise Stefanik are in the top tier with maybe Nikki Haley. He seems to be interested in a woman VP because I guess he thinks it will work against Kamala.

    Parent

    Pres and VP from same state (none / 0) (#166)
    by BGinCA on Mon Sep 18, 2023 at 09:35:18 PM EST
    What's the law about this?

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    If you are (none / 0) (#167)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 19, 2023 at 06:52:53 AM EST
    talking about Stefanik, Trump moved his residency to Florida so I don't think that's an issue.

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    Was (none / 0) (#168)
    by BGinCA on Tue Sep 19, 2023 at 09:33:28 AM EST
    asking about DeSantis

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    I'm sure there's no "law" restricting (none / 0) (#169)
    by Peter G on Tue Sep 19, 2023 at 09:35:07 AM EST
    where a President's VP can be from, other than the law of political common sense.

    Parent
    Article 2 (none / 0) (#170)
    by BGinCA on Tue Sep 19, 2023 at 12:44:09 PM EST
    I was mostly thinking about Article II  "The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves."

    Does this mean that state electors cannot vote for both a President and VP who comes from their, the electors, state or that the two candidates cannot come from the same state. I think the former, but in that case must the elector split his/her vote or can they not vote at all?
    Is it possible to split votes between Pres and VP?


    Parent

    That clause of Article II was superseded (none / 0) (#171)
    by Peter G on Tue Sep 19, 2023 at 01:55:18 PM EST
    by the Twelfth Amendment. But the amendment still has the "one of whom, at least" language. So you may be right. I hadn't thought of that.

    Parent
    This was an issue (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 19, 2023 at 03:06:21 PM EST
    In the presidential election of 2000. Dick Cheney, then an executive of Halliburton and living in Dallas, TX, was appointed chair of a search committee to identify a running mate for the Republican presidential nominee, Texas Governor George W. Bush. Who was living in Austin.  Cheney looked high and low for the perfect candidate and lo and behold, that candidate was right there.under his nose, Dick Cheney himself.

    Cheney was then a Texas resident for five years, a Texas voter and taxpayer.   However, after the Republican ticket accepted the recommendation of their search committee chair  and Cheney became the Republican nominee for Vice President, Cheney got  a Wyoming driver's license, put his Texas house on the market and his second home in Wyoming (the state he once represented in Congress) became his residence.

    Bush/Cheney finally won that controversial election with an electoral tally of 271 electoral votes (one more than the 270 needed)v 266 for Gore/Lieberman. The " one of whom, at least" of the Amendment  language would have had an impact on securing all of Texas' 32 electoral votes, if both Bush and Cheney were from the same state.  And,  American history would be very different.  

    Parent

    Question for any Jewish TalkLefters. (none / 0) (#161)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Sep 18, 2023 at 04:31:28 PM EST
    If your faith is Jewish and you are a US citizen, to whom is your primary loyalty? Is it to the United States or the country of Israel?

    Recent comments by blathering idiot(s) in the media or social media seem to assume that US Jews have an allegiance to Israel over the US. Or perhaps equal allegiance to both countries. I do realize that there are persons who have dual citizenship and that's a quagmire of their own making.

    I am genuinely curious about how Jews who are US citizens (and have never been in Israel) view Israel. Last night's 60 Minutes story on Israel protests contributes to my asking this question.

    That this is even a (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by BGinCA on Mon Sep 18, 2023 at 06:38:28 PM EST
    question offends me. Right in line with sending Japanese citizens to concentration camps for suspicion of `dual loyalty.' I have 0% loyalty to the state of Israel. I am a third generation US citizen, whos forbears came from Eastern Europe and Germany. What is meant by `primary loyalty?' Would I support Israel in a conflict with the USA, or do I believe US policy should be structured to benefit Israel to the detriment of US interests?
    As far as internal Israeli politics (including the treatment of Arab'citizens' - who are only partial citizens- and residents of the occupied territories) I would say that Israel can be either a democracy or a theocracy and apparently the choice has been made that it will not be `the only democracy in the Middle East,'  but merely an ally of the US, much like Qatar or Saudi Arabia.

    Parent
    It's very important (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 19, 2023 at 03:28:05 PM EST
    not to lose sight of the distinction between ethnicity and "faith."

    Jews who simply have some emotional attachment to the idea of Israel as a perceived safe harbor, or because they have friends and relations there, aren't the problem. From a realistic, historical perspective, it's all perfectly understandable.

    It's the whacked-out religiously conservative Jews, AND the religiously conservative Christians and Muslims, who become uniformly unhinged at the mere thought or mention of "the Holy Land," that are the cause of 99.99% of the chaos and violence in that part of the world.

    If the aforementioned were somehow magically out of the picture, we could move on to addressing a lot of the actual pressing issues of the day that concern the adults in the room.

    Parent

    I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone. (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Sep 19, 2023 at 05:27:27 PM EST
    I've asked the same question of followers of christianity who are US citizens. Is your primary loyalty to your faith or your country. Many think the two are synonymous.

    As an atheist, I salute the flag, but the bible is just a book good for a doorstop.

    Parent

    I'm sure you didn't realize, but (none / 0) (#179)
    by Peter G on Tue Sep 19, 2023 at 09:50:43 PM EST
    the suggestion of "dual loyalty" is an antisemitic trope, implying that Jews are unreliable citizens of their home countries. My Hungarian Jewish ancestors (on my father's side) may have referred to themselves, in terms of nationality, as Hungarian, but their Christian neighbors didn't agree; they were always considered to be "Jews," not just as adherents of a certain religion but also as an ethnic group and a separate nationality, of a unique sort, that is, at least a subculture. I don't think I need to go into more detail about what history teaches about the potential (worst-case) consequences of viewing an ethnic or other group as "other."

    Parent
    I agree with you (5.00 / 3) (#181)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Sep 20, 2023 at 11:54:39 AM EST
    100%. I have always considered Judaism a religion. Never a nationality. Israeli is a nationality. There are non-Jewish Israelis.

    I have always made it clear in conversations with people (not here) that when I criticize Israel, I am criticizing the government of a sovereign nation, not the majority religion of that nation.

    I don't like Netanyahu one bit. The fact that he is Jewish does not factor into that. I don't like him because I think he's a borderline fascist. My distaste for his policies does not make me antisemitic, it makes me anti-fascist.


    Parent

    Chief among these (none / 0) (#175)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 19, 2023 at 03:42:46 PM EST
    "blathering idiots" you reference is Trump. In his greeting on Rosh Hashanah, he attacked "liberal Jews" who did not support him claiming that in so doing they voted to destroy America and Israel.

    And, in what appears to be a threat he says further, "Let's hope you learned from your mistakes and make better choices moving forward."

    And, we can be pretty sure the message was actually written by Trump since he misspells Nazi (who else puts a "t" in Nazi?)

    Parent

    The t was just Trump's (none / 0) (#176)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 19, 2023 at 03:57:19 PM EST
    way of attempting to make a distinction between the Nazis over and the Nazis here, like his father.

    Seriously, that "destroy America" bit puts me in mind of Musk claiming that George Soros wants to destroy the human race, or words to that effect.

    Kudos to Larry David for getting in Elon's face over his right-wing nonsense.

    Parent

    This is something (none / 0) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 19, 2023 at 07:32:32 PM EST
    This leaves (none / 0) (#180)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 20, 2023 at 06:04:03 AM EST
    questions in my mind. So he wrote to do lists on classified documents and? Did they go to the store with the classified documents or what happened next?

    No wonder the FBI couldn't find all the documents.

    Parent

    Willis (none / 0) (#182)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 20, 2023 at 03:09:10 PM EST
    announced that Lin Wood, the other half of the Kracken team, turned states witness. I kind of suspected this with him surrendering his law license with no charges brought.

    Lin Wood strikes me as being at least as (none / 0) (#184)
    by Peter G on Wed Sep 20, 2023 at 04:38:28 PM EST
    crazy as Sidney Powell, and thus hardly a credible witness.  Interesting that the D.A. feels she can use and rely on him, and get a jury to trust his word.

    Parent
    The thing (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 20, 2023 at 08:07:48 PM EST
    is he has a history of not being crazy and actually being a good attorney prior to hooking up with Trump. I would imagine there's more than just his word. There were a number apparently that seem to have flipped like Cleta Mitchell.

    Parent
    Willis (none / 0) (#183)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 20, 2023 at 03:09:10 PM EST
    announced that Lin Wood, the other half of the Kracken team, turned states witness. I kind of suspected this with him surrendering his law license with no charges brought.

    Go Ducks... (none / 0) (#186)
    by fishcamp on Sat Sep 23, 2023 at 01:55:18 PM EST


    They are kicking (none / 0) (#188)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Sep 23, 2023 at 05:30:20 PM EST
    Butt.

    Parent
    It must be.. (none / 0) (#187)
    by desertswine on Sat Sep 23, 2023 at 02:49:36 PM EST
    So much for neon Dion... (none / 0) (#189)
    by fishcamp on Sat Sep 23, 2023 at 05:40:24 PM EST


    Oh cruel reality.. (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by desertswine on Sun Sep 24, 2023 at 12:37:28 PM EST
    Oregon is ranked #9 now... (none / 0) (#193)
    by fishcamp on Mon Sep 25, 2023 at 06:51:18 AM EST
    I've been rewatching (none / 0) (#191)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 24, 2023 at 05:47:56 PM EST
    The man In The Hign Castle

    I forgot how good it was.  

    I also liked the Philip K. Dick novel (none / 0) (#192)
    by Peter G on Sun Sep 24, 2023 at 07:11:15 PM EST
    of the same name, on which the series was loosely based.

    Parent
    Bitt on the butt by a brown recluse spider (none / 0) (#194)
    by fishcamp on Mon Sep 25, 2023 at 07:04:57 AM EST
    last Thursday, and it's sore today.  I didn't see this one . but did see a brown recluse last month scampering behind my pillows. I saw the fiddle back design. Did a full vacuuming and clean up along with two sided scotch tape on the floor like they recommend.  No sick feeling yet, but I'm going to the doctor today.  The torture never stops.

    GOOD (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by jmacWA on Mon Sep 25, 2023 at 08:48:34 AM EST
    Hopefully going this quickly will lead to no skin of your azz.

    Parent
    Glad (none / 0) (#195)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 25, 2023 at 08:27:05 AM EST
    you are going to the doctor. My brother in law didn't go soon enough and he had to have surgery to remove the dead skin.

    Parent
    Beware Spider's Revenge. (none / 0) (#197)
    by desertswine on Mon Sep 25, 2023 at 01:40:11 PM EST
    A friend of mine in college (none / 0) (#198)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 25, 2023 at 04:08:39 PM EST
    Had a 1951 Chrysler Imperial.  Front seat was like a small living room.

    Anyway, she was bitten on the ass twice.  In the car.  Once after having the car fumigated after the first one.

    Hers was pretty serious.

    Parent

    Just give him the Glock (none / 0) (#199)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 25, 2023 at 04:10:22 PM EST
    And make sure it's loaded.

    MeidasTouch
    @MeidasTouch
    ·
    Follow
    BREAKING: Trump spokesperson Steven Cheung just DELETED his post claiming his boss purchased a Glock in South Carolina after learning that it is a federal crime. He is now doing damage control and telling networks Trump did not actually buy the firearm.




    He probably bought (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 25, 2023 at 04:28:44 PM EST
    the gun the way he buys lunch for everybody as in pretends to pay but doesnt.

    Parent
    Kind of a similar (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 25, 2023 at 04:51:24 PM EST
    thing with Hunter Biden

    😛

    Parent