Happy Father's Day and Open Thread

Why are most of the songs about fathers so sad? I was looking for an upbeat song and came up empty. On my third try, I found one that resonated with me, probably because my dad took me to a lot of NY Yankee games when I was a kid. There was Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, Yogi Berra, and my personal favorite, Hector Lopez (because we had seats at third base and he was right in front of me.) I'd stand up and hoot and holler "Hector! Hector!" till I was hoarse. My dad never told me to pipe down and sit, because even though I was probably embarrassing the hell out of him, he could see how much fun I was having.

As for the song: A great version by Carly Simon, that turns very upbeat after a minute or so.

I hope everyone remembered to call their dads today (if not, it's not too late), and for those like me, whose dad is no longer here, I hope you took a moment to look up at the sky and whisper "thanks!"

Let us know how you spent Fathers Day. This is an open thread, all topics welcome!

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    Happy Fathers day (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 18, 2023 at 06:55:13 PM EST

    our country can't be a therapy session for a troubled man like this

    -Bill Barr

    But we can.  And are.  Thanks to the Bill Barrs of the world.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 08:58:48 AM EST
    I guess we should be glad on some level that people like Barr are coming out against Trump publicly but all the things he is saying were known back in 2015-the toddler tantrums etc.

    Good news (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 07:44:25 AM EST
    Happy Summer Solstice... phew made it (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by desertswine on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 12:35:56 PM EST
    No $1000 a bottle wine, though. (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 02:15:30 PM EST
    Justice Alito provided a preemptive response in the Wall Street Journal to a story about to be published by Pro Publica regarding a luxury fishing trip to Alaska at the expense of right-wing billionaire, Paul Singer.  Mr. Singer frequently has cases before the Court; but unlike Clarence's "dear friend" relationship with Harlan Crow, Alito hardly knows Singer. It was just that there was a vacant seat on the jet anyhow, and the trip to the fishing lodge was not fancy. Rustic, no crystal chandeliers in the bathroom, even. Food was family style, no high priced wine.

    Alito knew of the imminent ProPublica article because he was asked for a pre-publication response, but his  response was to the favored WSJ.

    Alito's WSJ defense was not as persuasive as he seems to think. He attempted to slither into compliance with the personal  hospitality exemption so as not to have to report the fishing treat. Alito maintained that personal hospitality includes use of facilities and a jet airplane is a facility--a definition bolstered by Webster's and Black's Law Dictionaries.

    The trip was, apparently, facilitated by Leonard Leo, head of the Federalist Society. Perhaps, Leo could arrange a spa get-away for Alito. Surely there is a billionaire who would be willing to help Alito with his anger management issues, there probably is a vacant spot in a sauna with his name on it. Just going to waste, might as well use it.

    It's worth noting (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 04:26:39 PM EST
    that Ron D. Santis has started saying he will only nominate justices like Alito and Thomas.

    I thought it was good that he suggested it would have been more costly and troublesome to fly commercially because he would have needed protection.

    Also, how nice to be able to respond to any perceived slight with a WSJ oped with same day service.

    How much do you think that's worth?


    The (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 04:30:30 PM EST
    ProPublia article, Pulitzer-worthy journalism, worth the read.

    Pulitzer worthy journalism? (none / 0) (#59)
    by coast on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 11:15:48 AM EST
    Maybe for some of their other articles, but this one falls well short IMO.

    The apparent intent of the article is to link Alito and Singer and allude to some possible quid pro quo between Alito receiving some benefit from Singer in exchange for favorible treatment on cases before the SC.

    There are two key parts to the article that completely fly in the face of this accertion.  The first is that Singer and Alito appear at best to be acquaintances.  If this becomes the bar for recusal, then not a whole lot will get done at the USSC.

    The second is that Arkley, the owner of the lodge was the one who invited Alito. If there were any arguement for recusal or appeance of conflict it might be if Arkley were a party to case.  However, as the article states, none has been found.

    The only area where you might have an arguement where Singer provided a benefit to Alito would be the plane.  However even this is spurious.  The writers assert that the benefit is worth $100k because that's what a comparible charter would cost.  Anyone who has dealt with valuing private air travel, whether in industry or in preparing taxes, knows that's a worthless comparison.  If the writers had taken the time to actually look at how this benefit is arrived at, they would have found that the actuall benefit to Alito, or any guest on the plane, would have been between $1500 and $3000.  That's a steep decline from the asserted $100k.

    As they say "there is no there there"


    The reason there are rules for disclosing (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 11:54:44 AM EST
    even small gifts for every person who works for or in government, except the 9 Nazgul, is not because there is a fear buying someone lunch will influence them.  It's because appearance is important.  Especially when it comes to the freaking supreme court.

    No one thinks a Alito was influenced in a series of 7-1 rulings. That's not the point.


    Agreed (none / 0) (#63)
    by coast on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 02:06:03 PM EST
    So look at the rules in place at the time.  From that perspective it seems that the trip was not reportable, so it was righfully not disclosed (Based on Judge Randolph's, who was also on the trip, notes at the time and his discussions with whatever entity judges report this type of item to).

    The problem is that your dealing with an institution where disclosure or non-diclosure really doesn't matter so long as justices are able to control their recusal..

    Look at some recent cases -
    Harvard admissions case - I believe four of the nine judges have direct links to the either the case or Harvard itself.  Robert and Jackson attended Harvard, Kavanaugh I believed taught there, and Kagan was Dean of the Law School.  Jackson recused herself, but the other three did not.  Do any of the three that did not appear to have a conflict?  Its subjective, so who knows.

    Random House - Breyer, Sotomayor, and Gorsuch all had book deals with Random House.  Only Breyer recused himself.

    The list can go on.

    At the end of the day if the justices have the right to either recuse themselves or not, disclosure is fairly irrelevant.  That's kind of the basis of the institution itself is it not?  Justices put aside their beliefs and follow the law.  These are nine people who have reached the pinnacle of their profession.  I'll defer to someone like Sotomayor that she can put aside the fact she has been paid in excess of $3m from Random House and can make a fair decision based on the facts.

    ProPublica and others jumping on this train are like Trump standing there yelling there's fraud in our elections when there's no evidence to support it.  Standing there saying that justices are ruling on cases where there is the appearnce of a conflict of interest only becomes relevant if its shown that a justice was swayed by that association and made a ruling they otherwise would not.  To my knowledge that has never happened.  Good luck trying to find it.


    Judicial ethics (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 02:23:15 PM EST
    expect recusal if the judge's impartiality may be reasonably questioned.  And, this is the issue that both Thomas and Alito present.  Without disclosure, there is no basis to question, reasonably or unreasonably.

    I understand your point (none / 0) (#67)
    by coast on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 03:28:15 PM EST
    So if Alito had disclosed that he received say $20k-$30k in gifts from Arkely, then you'd be fine and nothing else would be needed?

    Coast, I regret (5.00 / 5) (#71)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 05:23:05 PM EST
    that I did not make my point clear. No I would not be fine and nothing else would be needed but disclosure for large cash, or in-kind gifts made to Alito.  Or, any other justice.

    However, disclosure is a foundational ethical component to assure credibility of, and confidence in,  the work of the Supreme Court. Disclosure alone is necessary but may be insufficient.(Court reform is needed, but that is for another discussion).

    If a rule was proposed that Supreme Court justices must disclose and post any cash or in-kind gifts over $500 on the Supreme Court website, my guess is that it would be resisted. If luxurious free travel of the type provided to Clarence Thomas by Crow or to Alito by Singer/Arkely were required to be disclosed on the SC website, my guess is that enthusiasm for acceptance of the grand fishing trip would have been diminished.

    In the history of the nation, it is not uncommon for the executive and legislative branches of government to be closely scrutinized, mostly for the benefit of each branch and the for the country as a whole. This is less the case, for the third branch, the Supreme Court. Indeed, the Court has been more adverse to the shine of sunlight than Count Dracula. It seems to prefer working in the dark, if not in secret.

    There are several potential ways and means to influence the work of the Court, not necessarily corrupt, but ways and means that may create the impression of unfairness, conflicts or giving a leg-up to favored individuals.

     For example, each Term the Supreme Court considers about 8,000 petitions for a writ of certiorari, and grants and hears oral arguments in about 80 cases. Several factors may be deployed in reaching the vote of four.

     Or, amicus briefs supported by a think tank supported by a benefactor of a justice may receive disproportional weight.

    The Supreme Court is comprised of nine justices who make important decisions that affect over 325 million Americans.

     Moreover, life-time appointments are intended to provide a shield from outside influences and pressure. The Supreme Court's enforcement of its decisions is its legitimacy and credibility. Americans need to live with decisions it likes and does not like. It needs to have confidence that decisions are made on the facts and the law.

    Marbury v Madison (1803) established the principle of judicial review, meaning the Courts have the power to strike down laws and statutes they find violate the US Constitution. Essentially, the un-elected Court has veto power over the two elected branches of government. This is awesome responsibility and authority.

    Expecting SC justices to disclose and recuse does not seem to be an inordinate burden for the justices.  And, the need to recuse owing to the need to disclose gifts should be minimized to give the full Court to the issues at hand.  


    Thanks Keys! (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by coast on Fri Jun 23, 2023 at 01:35:20 PM EST
    I completely agree that it realy doesn't seem like a burden.  But until there is some change in the recusal process, the current process simply deminishes any value you get from disclosures.

    Good discussion.  Have a great weekend!


    That might be overstated (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 04:19:43 PM EST
    but mostly true.  

    Perhaps.  In this case,  


    Clarence Thomas (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 01:43:54 PM EST
    claims accepting luxury travel on yachts is just fine because he and Ginni are dearest friends with the billionaire.  Alito claims it is just fine to accept a ride on a facility because he does not know the billionaire.

    I wonder why Alito feels that he was invited on a luxury fishing trip, gratis,--his sparkling and engaging personality?  Were such invitations commonplace before being on the  SC?

      Maybe, he thinks he is owed luxurious gifts/grifts since the country gets his sagacity  for a mere  $275,,000 per nine- month year. And, he could be making ten times that at some right-wing law firm.  
    The invitation to the Alaskan fishing trip was arranged through Leonard Leo, the architect of court-packing by conservatives, and the shepherding of Alito to the Supreme Court two years prior to that opportunity to sip $1000/ bottle wine.

    The ProPublica journalism was painstakingly thorough. The investigation involved interviews with former service staff, former pilots, analysis of flight records, fishing licenses, menus.  

    While views may differ on the conclusions, the reporting appears solid (Alito's WSJ prebutal was defensive and subject to ridicule--essentially weak tea).


    KD (none / 0) (#66)
    by coast on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 02:52:56 PM EST
    I'm sure that the reporting was painstaking.  But it doesn't negate the fact that the only benefit to Alito that can somehow tied to Singer is the plane ride, which was worth less than $5k.  Now they insinuate a whole lot.  But that's all this article actually proves with regards to Alito and Singer.  Not ground breaking stuff IMO.

    I don't know if Alito was ever invited on trips like these before he became a SCJ.  But I do think that all the justices live in a circle that I, or many of us, will never attain.  God bless'em.  Good for them.

    All this means nothing really unless you think that justices opinons are being influenced by these "gifts", understanding that this occurs for all the justices (I think its naive to think this only occurs with the right leaning justices).


    we are (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 03:40:41 PM EST
    at a point in this country where support for the supreme court as an institution is the lowest in history mostly due to the Federalist Society and their crappy judges. So this is a problem and they know it is a problem because Amy Coney Barrett goes to a political meeting claiming she's not a hack and the supreme court isn't filled with hacks. But if it walks like a hack and talks like a hack people are going to think it is full of nothing but hacks. So in order to restore confidence in the courts ignoring all this is not the solution. It is important that the country have faith that the court is making decisions based on sound principles instead of their funders.

    Alito also got flown to Rome by another group. So it's not just one incident from him but what do you expect from someone who bases his legal decisions on a witch burner?


    The value of the trip is immaterial. (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 03:03:31 AM EST
    Rather, it's the fact that like his good buddy Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito didn't even bother to disclose the gift. Supreme Court justices are NOT exempt from federal disclosure laws. If I as a mayoral-appointed county employee have to file truthful annual financial disclosures regarding my assets, non-county income and gifts, then godammit, he and the other justices can do the same thing.

    We can talk about the propriety or impropriety of Supreme Court justices receiving lavish gifts from wealthy benefactors, but that's really a separate matter. Legally speaking, there wouldn't even be a problem here had Justice Alito simply disclosed the trip as he was required by law. The fact that he did not is a pretty good indication that he knew the ethics and optics were a bad look, especially since Singer's hedge fund had business before the justices. Further, a Supreme Court justice's black robes shouldn't be used as a "Get Out of Jail Free" card.

    It's the obvious double standard at play here and the sheer arrogance of these jackwagons that really pi$$ me off. The U.S. Supreme Court's authority has always rested upon the public's perception of the justices as fair and impartial arbiters of the law. But per a new Quinnipiac poll, public confidence in the High Court has now plummeted to 30%. And its conservative majority has only themselves to blame for that.

    At the end of the day when all is said and done, the U.S. Supreme Court is in the public domain. The justices are entrusted to be its stewards. They have no right to treat it as their exclusive private reserve.

    Nobody is above the law. Nobody.


    Meatball Mussolini (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 04:35:16 PM EST
    wishes he would be able to nominate any judge on his own, if president.  For any Republican president, that is Leonard Leo's wheelhouse.

    John Eastman Disbarment (5.00 / 5) (#50)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 11:21:51 PM EST
    The small amount of video I have located of the Eastman hearing is riveting. Finally one of these clowns has to answer under oath. The prosecutor or whatever he is called knows the right questions.

    I don't know why this isn't bigger news.

    It will be... (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by jmacWA on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 05:15:34 AM EST
    as soon as the major media figures out an angle to both-sides the issue.  Sadly, there does not appear to be a Democratic equivalent on this one. </snark>

    It's getting strange over there (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 23, 2023 at 06:37:10 PM EST
    Russia (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 23, 2023 at 06:44:57 PM EST
    is coming unglued as we speak.

    Tanks in the streets (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 23, 2023 at 07:46:38 PM EST
    It's hard to find any straight information.. (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by desertswine on Fri Jun 23, 2023 at 08:16:11 PM EST
    so you know something serious is going on.

    Oh let me stop for a minute and (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by desertswine on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 12:12:08 PM EST
    bask in the words of the Orange genius:

    Former President Donald Trump on Tuesday described Russian President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine as "genius" and "savvy," praising his onetime counterpart.

    "I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, `This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine -- of Ukraine -- Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that's wonderful," Trump said in a radio interview with "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show." "He used the word `independent' and `we're gonna go out and we're gonna go in and we're gonna help keep peace.' You gotta say that's pretty savvy."


    Alexander Vindman (none / 0) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 08:19:45 AM EST
    Is saying this has gone from an insurrection to a full blown coup in just a few hours.

    He say there are in fact columns headed for Moscow and more than halfway there.
    He say Russia has started attacking the approaching forces but Prego has good air defenses.

    Everyone seems to think this is all good for Ukraine. Prigozhin is a criminal thug but it's "not his war"
    And his big announcement involved saying Russia never had a real reason to attack Ukraine.  They or NATO were never a threat to Russia.


    Looks like it might not be a boring weekend for nooze.


    Guess I need a Telegram account (none / 0) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 08:28:34 AM EST

    Vindman was talking about this app

    The Limits of the Kremlin's Information Controls
    June 24, 2023 at 9:19 am EDT By Taegan Goddard Leave a Comment

    "Despite years of creeping Kremlin control over the internet, the mercenary tycoon Yevgeny Prigozhin continued to comment live on Saturday through videos, audio recordings and statements posted on the messaging app Telegram," the New York Times reports.

    "His remarkable continued access to a public platform amid a crisis demonstrated both the limits of official restrictions and the rise of Telegram as a powerful mode of communication since the start of the war in Ukraine in February 2022. The app, along with the proliferation of virtual private networks, has effectively loosened the information controls that the Russian authorities had tightened for years."

    So I joined telegram (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 08:36:49 AM EST
    Yevgeny is there.

    ... of the cities of Rostov-on-Don and Voronezh. Under orders to block Wagner PMC forces advancing north, Russian soldiers and government personnel instead laid down their arms at the Bugaevka border crossing in the Voronezh Oblast, rather than resist.

    Vladimir Putin may be in far more serious trouble than we realized just 18 hours ago. The Wagner mutiny is the gravest domestic challenge to his authority since he first took power in 1999. He addressed the nation a few hours ago to denounce Wagner Group CEO Yevgeny Prigorzhin and vowed to crush him. But reportedly, not yet confirmed, his presidential plane departed Moscow and is headed in the direction of St. Petersburg.

    Even if he survives the Wagner mutiny, Putin's hold on power may be crippled, leaving him vulnerable to other threats from his own inner circle and current allies.

    Yesterday morning, I quipped to a work colleague that Prigozhin would either be master of the Kremlin by Monday, or he would be in hiding, jailed or dead.

    Amazing to think it could be the former, not the latter.


    My money (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 09:04:53 AM EST
    is on the guy with the pi$$ed off army.

    Not the one hiding in an undisclosed location.


    Prigozhin (none / 0) (#90)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 09:47:50 AM EST
    I just found out was the one running interference for Trump in 2016 via the Internet Research Agency troll farm.

    So yeah, a thug and authoritarian as much as Putin. He just is tired of fighting in Ukraine. So Putins propaganda training can come back to bite him it seems.


    Prigozhin (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 01:59:32 PM EST
    is one of the Russians indicted by Special Counsel Mueller for 2016 election interference.

    Vlad has checked out (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 09:51:20 AM EST
    Maybe, (none / 0) (#100)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 02:01:58 PM EST
    to Yekaterinburg.  For old times sake.

    The Russian insurrection (none / 0) (#92)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 10:22:08 AM EST
    or coup should re-enforce the danger and world instability of Trump's January 6 coup.attempt.  The nation should not become inured by time to its  threat to our democracy or to the world order.

    Ironically (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 10:40:11 AM EST
    conservatives are saying this is "real" coup attempt while J6 wasn't a real one. Trying to confuse people I guess since I would call J6 a failed coup.

    Maybe there (none / 0) (#94)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 11:22:02 AM EST
    will be clarification for them when Putin seeks asylum at Mar-a-Lago.

    There is a school of thought that a key factor (none / 0) (#95)
    by Peter G on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 11:31:06 AM EST
    in finally forcing the U.S. out of Vietnam was the disaffection and lack of will to support the war, coupled with a bit of open rebellion, among our own troops.

    If this works (none / 0) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 12:03:41 PM EST
    I doubt very much it was a surprise to either Ukraine or the US.

    Also (none / 0) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 12:05:05 PM EST
    I wonder if this will finally kick off the "big offensive" we have been hearing about for months.

    Per reports, Prigozhin (none / 0) (#81)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jun 23, 2023 at 09:45:48 PM EST
    Is marching on Moscow with 25,000 troops. If true, that is 25,000 less soldiers fighting in Ukraine.

    Prigozhin (none / 0) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 08:06:28 AM EST
    apparently is as bad as Putin it seems.

    Good news is this probably ends the war in Ukraine pretty soon.


    Wagner chief says his troops (none / 0) (#101)
    by desertswine on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 02:25:14 PM EST
    are turning around.  I'm expecting a statement by Trump saying that's he's responsible for brokering a deal between Putin and Prigozhin.

    I predict an unfortunate accident (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 03:23:20 PM EST
    in his future.

    Prediction (none / 0) (#109)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jun 25, 2023 at 03:11:21 PM EST
    Prigozhin won't last 60-90 days, says retired Admiral James we Stavridis.

    I'm not sure (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 25, 2023 at 03:53:35 PM EST
    if the crowds of Russians lining the street and cheering for him make that more or less likely.

    But I think his personal media empire that specializes in disinformation, and presumably information, makes tossing him out a window more problematic.

    Stavridis could be right.  I think it could also be Putin who's days are numbered.

    There really seems to be a confluence of bad news for Putin.


    In addition to the (none / 0) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 25, 2023 at 03:55:29 PM EST
    rumores of his health.

    He will (none / 0) (#102)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 02:57:23 PM EST
    have  to duke it out with Belarus' Lukashenko for the honors.

    I'm unclear on the deal (none / 0) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 03:24:06 PM EST
    It seems unlikely Putin will want him to live.  Maybe it's just a pause.  He's going into to exile in Belarus?  I think I would want a more distant exile.

    This is a monumental humiliation to Putin.  Doesn't seem over.


    Yeah, there's gonna be some killin' over this. (none / 0) (#105)
    by desertswine on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 04:21:09 PM EST
    That's probably (none / 0) (#106)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 04:37:24 PM EST
    the best possible outcome. They are all saying this make Putin look weak and he will now be forced to NOT look weak.

    Not comforting to think about how he might decide to that


    Also (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 04:45:56 PM EST

    He saved Putin's bacon.  I would be worried how Putin would process that if it was me.  

    Maybe him and the Rogue will join up.


    apparently (none / 0) (#108)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 04:51:12 PM EST
    it not being over is the conclusion by some Russia experts.

    There's a guy on CNN (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 06:33:53 PM EST
    saying that "the elites" will convince him to leave and just name a successor and not run again next March.

    Ok.  I still think it might happen sooner.  


    Any Jack Ryans out there (none / 0) (#147)
    by coast on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 07:29:17 AM EST
    who might kno who the successor would be?  Putin is at least "the devil you know".

    Federal Judge (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jun 23, 2023 at 08:20:39 PM EST
     rules against new DeSantis drag show law in Florida...First Amendment rights.

    U.S. District Judge Gregory A. Presnell agreed, writing that the language of the law is vague and "dangerously susceptible to standardless, overbroad enforcement."

    Presnell also said the law clashes with another DeSantis priority -- the "Parents' Bill of Rights" -- because it allows the state to decide what performances children can attend, rather than leaving that choice up to parents. He added that existing obscenity laws already protect children from "any constitutionally unprotected obscene exhibitions or shows."

    Definite clashes with Parents Rights

    Howdy (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 07:38:09 PM EST
    are you doing cartwheels? Rudy met with Jack Smith voluntarily and the legal pundits are saying he may be attempting to proffer a deal to avoid indictment. I would think even a deal would include a guilty plea on some count since I can't imagine Smith letting him totally walk.

    It's like the mafia where you get 1 to break and bring down the entire criminal enterprise. And IMO we are finding out more everyday that the GOP has been a criminal enterprise for decades.

    Yes (none / 0) (#139)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 08:10:04 PM EST
    But is he a perfect witness or a clown.

    Or both.  He should know where many bodies are buried.  And who buried them.


    I wonder how Fani figures into this (none / 0) (#141)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 08:14:31 PM EST
    He might let him slide.  She seems less inclined.  

    Would you rather be in a nice federal prison or GA state prison?


    Fani (none / 0) (#144)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 09:04:29 PM EST
    has been quiet lately seemingly just getting ready for indictments late July early August. Just from the available information it seems Rudy is a target of Jack but not Fani as she called him in to testify. I am not sure lying to the GA legislature is a crime. From what i read from people like Greg Bluestein it seems that the targets from Fani are Trump and the fake electors.

    Fani (none / 0) (#145)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 09:04:29 PM EST
    has been quiet lately seemingly just getting ready for indictments late July early August. Just from the available information it seems Rudy is a target of Jack but not Fani as she called him in to testify. I am not sure lying to the GA legislature is a crime. From what i read from people like Greg Bluestein it seems that the targets from Fani are Trump and the fake electors.

    Rudy literally ran the fake ejector (none / 0) (#148)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 07:40:29 AM EST

    But it would make sense (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 09:41:08 AM EST
    For Smith to grab Rudy because he can link him to all 7 states with fake electors.  

    I can see Smith making some sort of deal (none / 0) (#165)
    by Peter G on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 03:28:16 PM EST
    with Giuliani for a plea and debriefing, given the extent of his knowledge, but I cannot see Rudy becoming a witness. He is totally lacking in credibility or jury appeal. A witness has to have at least one of those, if not both.

    I agree (none / 0) (#166)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 03:44:49 PM EST
    See comment 139

    It it likely (none / 0) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 03:48:46 PM EST
    or even possible for both Fani and Smith to charge him for the same crime?

    Legally possible as far as feds are concerned (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Peter G on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 04:41:18 PM EST
    but unlikely. Double jeopardy is subject to a "same sovereign" limitation, which would allow a dual prosecution. But DOJ has a policy against exploiting that loophole unless the state system is dysfunctional (e.g., federal civil rights prosecutions in the '60s following baseless acquittals by all-white juries). Many states by statute do not allow prosecution for the same offense conduct following a federal conviction or acquittal; dunno whether Georgia is one of those states.

    Another day (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 11:01:15 AM EST
    another window

    Russian Bank Executive Falls to Her Death
    June 29, 2023 at 11:37 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 32 Comments

    "The glamorous vice-president of a Russian bank has reportedly plunged to her death after falling from the window of her Moscow apartment," the Daily Mail reports.

    The demmand (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 11:43:12 AM EST
    for basement apartments must be on the rise.

    Finally (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 07:39:57 AM EST
    The best SciFi novels in a long long time

    the 3 body problem

    Bad LTE Editing (none / 0) (#3)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 08:25:30 AM EST
    I often contribute letters to the editor, and most of them get printed. Recently our local paper got a new LTE editor, who takes all the sting out of my letters, and turns them into bland statements.

    Brevity is the soul of wit. I wrote two sentences, but the editor had to add two more to wreck the thought.

    Here is the original version, followed by the published version.


    GOP members of Congress don't seem terribly concerned about photographs of boxes spilling open and documents with nuclear secrets and defense capabilities strewn across a floor in Mar-a-Lago.

        If Hunter Biden's laptop had stolen thousands of secret documents and stored them in a bathroom, I'm sure every member of the Republican Party would be outraged.

    The published version:


    I am writing about the reaction to the recent indictment of former President Donald Trump for allegedly taking classified documents from the White House.
        GOP members of Congress don't seem terribly concerned about photographs of boxes spilling open and documents with nuclear secrets and defense capabilities strewn across a floor at Trump's home in Florida's Mar-a-Lago resort.
        Republicans have been obsessed with Hunter Biden's laptop in recent years. If the president's son had stolen thousands of secret documents and stored them in a bathroom, I'm sure every member of that party would be outraged.

    how can the paper publish that (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by leap2 on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 08:53:49 AM EST
    under your name when you didn't write it that way?

    I wondered the same thing (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 11:06:39 AM EST
    I didn't realize letters to the editor are edited.

    Sort of defeats the purpose beyond bleeping swear words.


    UFOs in the news (none / 0) (#6)
    by McBain on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 09:24:37 AM EST
    With the recent stories of a UFO whistleblower and aliens crash landing in a Las Vegas backyard, I've had UFOs on the brain.  

    A few nights ago, while walking my dog, I noticed a long thin line of several lights in the sky moving very slowly. Too many lights to be a single aircraft and too close together to be multiple aircraft. I thought it could be one plane dragging a  sign like you see at sporting events and maybe they went digital?

    I checked the two closest venues but there weren't any events that night.  Then I did an internet search and figured out what it was....The Starlink Satallites

    Now with that mystery solved I'm hoping there will be congressional hearings about whistleblower claims.  Something is going on.  Either actual extraterrestrial vehicles have visited us or some kind of elaborate cover story to shield top secret human technology.  

    Remember... (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 12:40:56 PM EST
    ...a few years ago when a fireball raced across the sky over Russia and exploded?

    With dashcams and surveillance cameras everywhere, there were thousands of videos of the ephemeral and unexpected event.

    Most adults carry a video camera these days, but no one ever seems to get cell phone video of an alien craft.


    There's plenty of video (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 01:13:25 PM EST
    If you look.  Mostly taken by military aircraft.

    I have no idea or opinion about if they are alien or what but UFOs are not really a secret any more.

    Just called UAPs now.

    As the U.S. government expands UFO investigations, a new group forms for pilots who spot them
    Airline passengers are encouraged to report suspicious activity in the name of national security, but the pilots have a harder time reporting UAPs.


    I really recommend the Showtime (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 02:07:58 PM EST
    documentary series

    It asks the right questions and explores top secret earth based possibilities

    The problem is some of the things documented are not only impossible based on known technology but known physics.


    Marco Rubio says there are other high ranking (none / 0) (#129)
    by McBain on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 10:09:32 AM EST
    government officials making similar claims to David Grusch.
    Rubio told NewsNation on Monday that he has heard from firsthand witnesses in "high positions in our government" to some of the claims made by Grusch.

    "There are people that have come forward to share information with our committee over the last couple of years. ... I want to be very protective of these people. A lot of these people came to us even before protections were in the law for whistleblowers to come forward," Rubio told NewsNation's Joe Khalil during an exclusive interview.

    Let's get these people before congress and get some more information.


    Read the Three Body Problem (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 11:05:08 AM EST
    The second (of three) book is called The Dark Forest.

    Which is a metaphor for the universe.   The lesson being when you are in a dark forest sometimes the best idea is to be very quiet.

    But I agree more should be done.  There is a pretty good series on Showtime but it's coming out.  One way or another.


    Second shingles shot today (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 05:01:25 PM EST
    Theoritical I am safe forever


    You got the (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 09:03:47 PM EST
    Shingrix? I got mine a couple of years ago.  I had gotten an earlier shingles shot before the Shingrix was available. Once it was, Daughter Zorba (a molecular biologist/pharmacologist) advised me to get the new one even before my family doctor did.

    Medicare only started paying (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 08:21:01 AM EST
    for it this year I believe.

    I had not gotten it because it was more than 200$


    Did you have a reaction (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 06:23:56 AM EST
    Boy, I felt like I was hut by a truck yesterday.

    Pretty much back to normal today.


    Yah, that first shot I had (none / 0) (#35)
    by leap2 on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 10:51:59 AM EST
    whacked me down for more than 30 hours. Within an hour, I could not even raise my left arm where I had the injection. And then I came down with a fever, headache, muscle aches--as if it were the flu. When I called the Costco pharmacy where I got the shot, to report the horrible side effects, and that I was considering skipping that second shot, the pharmacist talked me down from not getting the follow-up injection. She said she got her vaxx on a Wednesday, and missed three days of work! That's how badly she was affected. Three days. Oy. She said reports were that about 1 out of 10 people had reactions like that; her anecdotal records figured 9 out of 10 had some sort of bad reaction. Of course, people like me would call in reports, probably not those who had no problems. But everyone is different. She said DO NOT SKIP the second shot, nevertheless. She said she scheduled her second shot on a Friday, just in case....

    I had absolutely no ill effects from the second injection, other than the usual sore arm at the injection site. So there's that.


    When I got the first shot (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 12:28:05 PM EST
    I also got 2 other injections.  Stupidly. Won't do that again.  But I had a serious reaction.  At least as bad as this.  But I didn't know which it was from.  Or if it was a combination.  
    This time
    I had no reaction except a sore arm day 1.  Day 2 I could hardly get out of bed.  Today I still feel crappy but I just had lunch.  Yesterday I hardly ate anything.

    I have to be pretty sick to lose interest in eating.

    But totally worth it if it prevents shingles forever.  


    I had (none / 0) (#45)
    by Zorba on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 06:06:16 PM EST
    A very sore, and hot arm after the first one and just a sore arm the second time. No flu-like symptoms.
    OTOH, I have a friend whose brother-in-law got shingles on his optic nerve and went blind in one eye. They were worried that he would get it in his other eye and go totally blind. Fortunately, that didn't happen, but it was sure an incentive for me to get the Shingrix vaccine.

    Sure (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 06:21:13 PM EST
    I had one very mild experience but it was on my forehead and the side of my head so not minor.

    And by minor I mean visually.  Just a few little bumps you could not see from across the room. But da-um.  Like nails in my head.

    I sure don't want a serious case.


    This story of the turmoil in the DOJ (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 05:13:15 PM EST

    In the Washington post Is probably worth reading.  

    Ibthink it's a paywall but I just watched Carol Leonnig discuss it.

    It sounds like most of the DOJ was as pi$$ed about Garlands dithering as we were.

    Here is a gift link (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 03:56:48 AM EST
    to the article (I'm allowed to share them)

    ... the Washington Post's decision to publish this story right now is impeccably ill-timed. Yes, it's news - but it's also not urgent. Carol Loennig would've been better advised to save it as a chapter for a book about DOJ's Jan. 6 Trump investigation.

    As a stand-alone piece, it's mostly a lot of insider speculatio. There's no evidence that DOJ sought to suppress the investigation. If it's proof of anything, it reflects an undue amount of caution on DOJ leadership's part, driven by an unfounded fear of being perceived as overly political.

    It was an absurdly illogical position for DOJ to hold if you really think about it, since Trump's Jan. 6 crackpot coup plot was itself a violent act of political extremism. It's actually a mistake to try and ignore the radical right-wing politics that motivated the insurrectionists that day, when thousands of hours of media and security footage from that day vividly underscores it.

    I think the one guy who comes off rather badly here in the Post article is FBI Director Christopher Wray. That's now two directors in a row now who've showed badly flawed personal judgment at a critical juncture. We've simply got to do a better job picking and vetting candidates for that post.



    Well it appears true (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 08:28:34 AM EST
    we could be a year farther along with getting this over before the election if they had not had the silly in house rules about Trump.  

    Personally I think they should be embarrassed that they were dragged to it, as the story says, by information from the J6 committee and investigative reporting.

    I also think refusing to act looks every bit as political as anything they could have done.   And cowardly.

    My 2 cents


    Last night Rachel (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 08:32:20 AM EST
    Talked a lot about how people like the Michigan AG referred the fake electors to the DOJ a couple of years ago and the simply ignored it.

    That's almost unbelievable.  


    Here (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 08:42:17 AM EST
    Agreed. Merrick Garland (none / 0) (#26)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 02:33:13 PM EST
    Seems to have placed priority on restoring public trust in the DOJ by rebuilding a reputation battered by Republican's weaponization of whining about its accurate Russian/election interference investigation and Barr's deployment of the Department as Trump's defense team.

    And, did so by carefully crossing those t's and dotting the i's so as not to appear political, despite the visual and physical predicate for a prompt investigation of the entire scheme, to extinguish American democracy-- protect from all enemies foreign and domestic--no one who attempted to overthrow the government, Trump and other prominent Republicans included.

      Allowing any actors to attempt overthrow the government with impunity will hardly restore faith in the DOJ or the rule of law.

    The issue is prompt investigation. If there is not a good case and appears very difficult to obtain a conviction, then, of course, the Attorney General exercises prosecutorial discretion. But, to do nothing out of fear of MAGA Republicans is objectionable and repugnant. The AG had a duty to get right on it.

    The only plausible reason for Garland's hesitancy (if this reporting is accurate) might be that he saw that to thoroughly prosecute J6. foot soldiers and ringleaders, meant investigating a large part of the Republican Party.  As time has already shown, so much of the Republican leadership was in on, or supported afterward, the entire plot. Indeed, the Republican Party declared that J6 was "legitimate political discourse" , and 147 Republican Representatives voted to overturn the Biden election results. US senators Cruz and Hawley were exhilarated.

    The job required an AG with a stomach for a fight.  While no silver lining, perhaps there is a pewter lining, in that Garland, under pressure from the librations and historians at NARA and the courageous work of the J6 Committee is now moving ahead with th work of Jack Smith.

    . And, it may be alright that Trump will not get to trial before the primaries and election.  Trump's continued public utterances only help the Biden ampsign.


    And exactly what did that get him (Garland)? (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 01:29:16 PM EST
    Exactly what he was afraid of anyway. GQPers accusing the administration of weaponizing the DOJ and going after political enemies. His dithering and cross the t's got him absolutely nothing. Garland should have been on this from day one. To hell with the GQP and appearances. They no longer care.

    AG Garland was overly cautious. (none / 0) (#83)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 24, 2023 at 03:22:53 AM EST
    Further, he and Dep. AG Lisa Monaco had apparently decided to pursue the J6 investigation as they would an investigation of mob figures - that is, working from the bottom, flipping witnesses and climbing the ladder. In reality, it required a simultaneous two-pronged approach, both from the bottom up and the top down.

    That said, we are where we are. Trump & Co. are now in Jack Smith's crosshairs and DOJ's efforts right now need the public's support, not its second-guessing of decisions Garland did or did not make two-plus years ago. That's for the post-investigation review and report, for which the bureaucrats and leadership alike can be critiqued and held accountable at that time.

    Right now, let's please keep our eyes on the ball.


    A material typo. (none / 0) (#27)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 02:45:46 PM EST
    librations was to be librarians. Now, if it had been libations, that may have been apt.

    You know (none / 0) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 09:47:52 AM EST
    I get how nobody wants to be Ken Starr but this is really ridiculous.

    Father's Day music (none / 0) (#14)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 19, 2023 at 09:02:29 PM EST
    Groucho Marx 1951:  "According to our mother, you're our father/ And that's good enough for us."   And here's a 1970s version (I think) with Dick Cavett.

    Horace Silver... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by desertswine on Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 03:00:07 PM EST
    Hunter takes a plea (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 08:52:29 AM EST

    Hunter Biden expected to plead guilty to tax-related misdemeanor crimes as part of a plea agreement

    The Trump-appointed U.S. Attorney for Delaware has reached a plea agreement with Hunter Biden, in which he is expected to plead guilty to two federal misdemeanor counts of failing to pay his taxes.

    The Hunter Biden deal strikes me (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 09:17:27 PM EST
    as the criminal-law equivalent of a "nuisance value" settlement of a civil case. Plead guilty to two misdemeanor tax counts for an agreed term of probation, and diversion for being a habitual drug user in possession of a firearm -- an offense that is almost never prosecuted and is probably unconstitutional under the Supreme Court's current interpretation of the Second Amendment. No prosecutor would offer that deal unless s/he felt there was a significant possibility that a jury would not convict the suspect of anything they were being investigated for. From that perspective, the deal, although super-lenient, is probably harsher than most suspects would get after a full criminal investigation came up dry of anything significant.

    Is it normal (none / 0) (#33)
    by coast on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 08:19:22 AM EST
    for the government to plea the charges out yet state that the investigation is on going?  Hunter's lawyers, from statements, seem to believe this wraps things up.  Why wouldn't this end the investigation?

    I don't understand the prosecutor's statement (none / 0) (#34)
    by Peter G on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 08:25:51 AM EST
    No way this deal get made without concluding the investigation, at least assuming nothing new were to come up.

    My understanding (none / 0) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 09:51:09 AM EST
    is failing to pay his taxes on time. He is going into a diversion program also. The GOP is raging livid about this but it's a TRUMP prosecutor that cut the deal. he probably cut the deal because it would be even harder to get a jury on board IMO.

    I wish this would shut down the Hunter Biden nonsense but I am also sure it will not.


    Update to a couple civil cases we discussed here (none / 0) (#25)
    by McBain on Tue Jun 20, 2023 at 10:57:55 AM EST
    Romeo and Juliet lawsuit dismissed...
    A judge in California on Thursday dismissed a lawsuit brought by the lead actors in the 1968 film adaptation of "Romeo and Juliet" against Paramount Pictures over a scene in which their characters wake up in bed together nude.

    The actors, Olivia Hussey and Leonard Whiting, asserted in the lawsuit filed last year that they were underage at the time of filming, and that the movie's director, Franco Zeffirelli, had assured them that they would be wearing flesh-colored undergarments during the bedroom scene. But on the morning of the shoot, the lawsuit claimed, he told the teenage actors that "they must act in the nude or the picture would fail."

    I think that's the correct decision.

    Jury finds in favor of former Starbucks manager...

    Jurors in a federal court have awarded $25.6 million to a former Starbucks regional manager who alleged that she and other white employees were unfairly punished after the high-profile arrests of two Black men at a Philadelphia location in 2018.

    Shannon Phillips won $600,000 in compensatory damages and $25 million in punitive damages on Monday after a jury in New Jersey found that race was a determinative factor in Phillips' firing, in violation of federal and state anti-discrimination.

    $25.6 million seems a bit much but Starbucks looked terrible here.  This was the case where they decided to force employees into racial bias training even though there wasn't evidence of racism.  They also changed their policy to allow anyone to use their restrooms, not just paying customers, which led to problems with drugs and the homeless population.

    The Mooch is reading the signs (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 07:14:17 AM EST

    He was probably using six cans of hairspray during the campaign, he's probably using one now and he's got to straighten this out. He's a very image conscious guy," Scaramucci told CNN. "You can tell that he's unraveling. People who know him can tell that this start to come undone."

    Public Safety reminder (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 01:13:03 PM EST
    If you spend 250,000 to take a minisub to the Titanic go ahead and spend the money for a GPS tag

    OK (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 03:16:46 PM EST
    I was ignorance shamed on FB for not knowing GPS didn't work under water.  Which made me Google

    Scientists conduct first test of a wireless cosmic ray navigation system
    System could be used to guide underwater or underground robots.


    Welcome to the Future... (none / 0) (#47)
    by desertswine on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 07:40:33 PM EST
    Lab grown chicken meat approved for sale.

    'Cultivated meat is grown in steel tanks, using cells that come from a living animal, a fertilized egg or a special bank of stored cells. In Upside's case, it comes out in large sheets that are then formed into shapes like chicken cutlets and sausages.'

    Oh sure, chicken cutlets sounds tempting today, but wait till they get to the Soylent Green stage.

    Seriously (none / 0) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 08:28:48 PM EST
    This sounds creepy but it will probably be about a 1000 times more sanitary than the old way.  Not to mention the pollution and chicken waste created today.

    I have a personal horror story about trucking chicken waste.

    Better for resources used to feed and care for them.

    And it will probably tase the same.

    Its good.


    My state is famous for chicken (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 08:33:44 PM EST

    Nothing smells as bad as a chicken factory. Except maybe a pork factory.

    They can not be called farms.


    I know that those poor animals (none / 0) (#51)
    by desertswine on Wed Jun 21, 2023 at 11:26:41 PM EST
    live and die under horrible conditions. But its still going to take some getting used to.

    Ever been to an egg farm? (none / 0) (#180)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 09:39:03 PM EST
    CaptHowdy: "Nothing smells as bad as a chicken factory."

    It's kinda sorta the same, except there are way more chickens. I'm sure you probably have them back in Arkansas. On Oahu, there's Peterson's Upland Farm in Wahiawa, about 12 miles north of Pearl Harbor. A visit there will both take your breath away and make your eyes water.



    I remember saying sometime (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 08:13:21 AM EST
    In 2020 when it started looking like we could lose the House that a House controlled by these fools that was limited to doing their performative BS might not be the worst thing in the two years before the 2024 election.

    Boy.  Have they delivered. Beyond the wildest dreams.  And seem to be just getting warmed up.  It really is a perfect model of how they would run things.  It will add to the mountain of repulsive regressive toxic waste that will be dumped on them come election time.

    Please, impeach Biden.

    I don't disagree (none / 0) (#54)
    by jmacWA on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 08:48:57 AM EST

    1. IMO the MAGA fools eat this stuff up, and this will rile up the rubes.

    2. The Media will not call out this BS, and thus the unread masses will tend to believe what they are seeing on the News.

    My faith in the intelligence of the average American has gone WAY down hill since the advent of Trumpism.  Most Trumpers would rather have 1000 views on TikTok and the best way to get them is to act as outrageous as possible.  Then others try to outdo them it spirals and then this is what gets the coverage on the evening news.

    The legitimate (none / 0) (#56)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 09:05:25 AM EST
    news allowing this BS to go unchallenged in service of same siderism is definitely a problem. However it appears that there are enough people who are onto their BS that it doesn't work.

    Riling up the MAGA base drives the majority of voters away.


    Not sure what news we are talking about (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 10:43:02 AM EST
    Ours or theirs.

    MSNBC is pretty much hammering them 24/7.  CNN has tried to hard for both sides but might be getting better.  But they are never friendly to republicans. Even when they let them ramble on air.

    What they are doing is news and it's being covered. Including the Durham hearing. It's been running on a loop since it happened on MSNBC.  

    And more importantly IMO it's reaching into the public discourse.  Late night tv and stand up comedy.

    Most people don't watch news.  Unless there is a lookie-loo story.  Death or destruction.  
    But republican insanity is beyond news.


    And while it's true that typically (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 11:04:20 AM EST
    FOXgets more viewers than MSNBC and CNN combined this is also true

    MSNBC Beats Fox News In Primetime Last Week Amid Trump Indictment--Ending Fox's Years-Long Streak

    People are paying attention.



    Dominion (none / 0) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 12:56:30 PM EST
    may have done Fox a favor by forcing them to change. However right now all it has done is cause their viewers to flee to Newsmax and OANN.

    There are (none / 0) (#55)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 09:02:44 AM EST
    rumors that the J6 indictments are going to drop any day now and that is the reason for the sudden crazy nonsense because once those indictments drop everything the GOP is going to attempt to do is DOA.

    The pro life party (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 02:30:28 PM EST
    Not incentivising murderers

    Nearly all Louisiana's death-row inmates have filed for clemency
    The lame-duck governor could grant it before his term ends in 2024

    Despite newfound support from the outgoing governor, a bill to ban the practice died in committee in May. Abolishing it, Republicans and prosecutors argued, would incentivise murderers to go rogue.

    I would probably pay to see this (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 22, 2023 at 04:27:16 PM EST
    This could be important (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 23, 2023 at 11:25:37 AM EST
    Keeping it moving (none / 0) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 23, 2023 at 11:35:35 AM EST

    witnesses are being told to appear before the grand jury with no chance for delay.

    Prosecutors have played hardball with some of the witnesses in recent weeks, refusing to grant extensions to grand jury subpoenas for testimony and demanding they comply before the end of this month

    The compelled testimony has allowed the special counsel's office to lock in witness statements and potentially information that other investigators who have looked at the aftermath of the 2020 election couldn't obtain.

    In recent weeks, the special counsel's office has also shown interest in several members of Trump's post-election legal team who promoted baseless claims of widespread voter fraud, including his former lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell, as well as former Justice Department appointee Jeffrey Clark

    Yes (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 23, 2023 at 12:12:07 PM EST
    I think it explains the impeachment hysteria coming from the GOP

    Asteroid City... (none / 0) (#112)
    by desertswine on Sun Jun 25, 2023 at 04:28:56 PM EST
    I've been going to movies for a long time now, and this is the first time that I ever fell asleep in one.  I couldn't wait for it to be over, and I'm a WA fan.  I loved "Moonrise" and "Budapest Hotel" but this one was too much.  Anderson outdid himself on this one.  It was like a dozen celebrities in search of a story.  The acting was awful, but it wasn't the cast's fault as the deadpan delivery was typical WA.   The sets and colors were gorgeous though.  I want my money back.  I'm sure that the reviewers loved it but I thought it was terrible. And that's my nickel review.

    I've heard this (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 25, 2023 at 04:37:53 PM EST
    One said it was like you asked AI to makes a Wes Anderson movie in the style of Wes Anderson



    I honestly hated this movie. (none / 0) (#114)
    by desertswine on Sun Jun 25, 2023 at 04:52:08 PM EST
    Thank you. (none / 0) (#127)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 27, 2023 at 08:19:42 PM EST
    I'll avoid it. Wes Anderson has always been hit or miss with me as a director. I think he's reached a point in his career where his "quirky" style is no longer a novelty with the audience. I felt much the same way about Brian De Palma, whose last film I saw, "The Black Dahlia", turned out to be a stylishly hot mess.

    There are two upcoming films I'm looking forward to seeing this fall:

    • Martin Scorsese's "Killers of the Flower Moon" with Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert De Niro, Jesse Plemons and Lily Gladstone, a Native American actor who delivers what's been described as an Oscar-worthy bravura performance.

    • Ridley Scott's "Napoleon" with Joaquin Phoenix in the intriguingly cast title role. Napoleon Bonaparte is a complex historical figure who even after 200 years is still reviled as a brutal conqueror in many parts of Europe, even as he's hailed in France as one of its greatest and most farsighted leaders. Phoenix himself is a rather complex man, so it could be a match made in heaven.

    Anybody else have any movie suggestions, including what NOT to see?



    No (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 08:16:59 AM EST
    But I'm very much looking forward to Oppenheimer

    Big week? (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 25, 2023 at 06:07:38 PM EST

    Supreme Court Set for Furious Round of Decisions

    June 25, 2023 at 5:37 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 53 Comments

    "The Supreme Court is set to hand down key decisions this week on student debt relief, affirmative action and federal election laws as it enters the last week of its summer session with 10 cases pending," The Hill reports.

    "The court has given no indication it will break its norm of finishing decisions by the end of June, and the next batch is slated to be released Tuesday morning."

    Yes, big week. And probably (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Peter G on Sun Jun 25, 2023 at 06:50:51 PM EST
    a lot of bad news. At best, maybe one or two pleasant surprises and perhaps a sigh of relief here or there.

    Hopeful start (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 26, 2023 at 09:32:41 AM EST

    "The Supreme Court said Monday that Louisiana's congressional map must be redrawn to add a second majority-Black district," CNN reports.

    "The justices reversed plans to hear the case themselves and lifted a hold they placed on a lower court's order for a reworked redistricting regime. There were no noted dissents."

    This decision comes just a few weeks after justices ruled that Alabama must redraw its congressional map.

    Affirmative action (none / 0) (#119)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 26, 2023 at 09:57:35 AM EST
    is probably toast and not optimistic about President Biden's student loan forgiveness program.  

    This is good news (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 27, 2023 at 09:22:21 AM EST

    Justices Reject Independent Legislature Doctrine
    June 27, 2023 at 10:18 am EDT By Taegan Goddard Leave a Comment

    In a 6-3 decision, the Supreme Court has rejected the independent state legislature doctrine in Moore v Harper.

    It's a solid rejection of a controversial legal theory pushed by supporters of former President Donald Trump.

    Justices Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch and Clarence Thomas dissented.

    There should be some happy folks in NC (none / 0) (#123)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Jun 27, 2023 at 11:13:59 AM EST
    I am in the middle of a New Yorker article about exactly this subject. The Supremes should have sent out a spoiler alert.

    Yes (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 27, 2023 at 12:23:08 PM EST
    Maybe one of the lawyers will explain this. I've been seeing versions of "yes it's good news, but"

    I mean we're they not always going to do this -

    the Supreme Court has now set itself up, with the assent of the liberal justices, to meddle in future elections

    The Time Bomb in the Supreme Court Voting Case
    June 27, 2023 at 1:08 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 12 Comments

    Rick Hasen: "It is indeed a cause for celebration that the United States Supreme Court, on a 6-3 vote in Moore v. Harper, rejected an extreme version of the `independent state legislature' theory that could have upended the conduct of elections around the country and paved the way for state legislatures to engage in election subversion."

    "But after the celebration comes the inevitable hangover, and with all the hoopla it is easy to miss that the Supreme Court has now set itself up, with the assent of the liberal justices, to meddle in future elections, perhaps even deciding the outcome of future presidential elections (as it has done in the past). Chief Justice John Roberts drove a hard bargain."

    A stitch in time saves nine (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 27, 2023 at 04:28:48 PM EST
    This is a good decision, certainly given this Court. It seems to me that the political environment, including Court reform talk,  has impacted the Court with Chief Justice Roberts persuading Kavanaugh and Barrett.  

    I do not see the cause for concern for the Supreme Court now meddling in elections.  Bush v Gore seems convincing in that regard.

    This may be the bone thrown this term, along with the immigration win for President Biden. The stitch----  Now, we get the end of affirmative action and an OK on discrimination against gays because religion---this time.


    Oops (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 27, 2023 at 12:23:56 PM EST
    So Prigozhin turned around because (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 26, 2023 at 08:22:05 AM EST

    Russian Intelligence threatened his family

    Boy.  I would say they better kill him quick if that's the plan.

    It's been reported that ... (none / 0) (#183)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 10:00:41 PM EST
    ... the FSB has arrested Gen. Sergei Surovikin, who was until February the overall commander if the Russian military effort in Ukraine. Supposedly, he was sympathetic to Wagner Group, and may have known of plans for the mutiny before it happened.

    Or, maybe Putin just needs a scapegoat.


    DeSantos v Mouse (none / 0) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 26, 2023 at 05:22:24 PM EST
    Would (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 26, 2023 at 06:49:16 PM EST
    like to hear what our attorneys here on TL have to say about this case.

    DeSantis has (none / 0) (#130)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 05:14:25 PM EST
    asked the federal judge to wait two years to start the trial, delaying the beginning of the trial until after the 2024 elections. DeSantis does not want to begin depositions for several reasons, but not expressly because of his campaigning--so he claims.

    DeSantis seems not to have thought through his fight with Disney.


    I saw (none / 0) (#131)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 05:34:32 PM EST
    Rick Wilson on some show and he said that DeSantis has had the worst campaign rollout he's seen in his 30 years of politics. His terrible campaign is also the result of having a sycophantic FL press and his refusal to face any unfriendly press. So when put in the bright sunlight of the entire country he collapses.

    People are starting to look at Brian Kemp. I guess this is a sign of desperation. I tell people y'all think Kemp is something because he didn't want to go to jail for Trump but he is every bit as bad as DeSantis. He is unelectable.


    DeSantis, in an interview (none / 0) (#132)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 06:05:21 PM EST
    today, said, if president, he will eliminate the departments of energy, commerce, education, and the IRS.  All too woke.

    DeSantis has filed a suit against the Secretary of Education over the Department's deployment of accreditation agencies in decision-making in providing student.loans. In accord with statutes, the Department deploys accrediting agencies in decisions regarding  the investment of public funds.

     In turn, accrediting agencies are required to be recognized by the Secretary of Education, in keeping with exacting recognition criteria.  

    Accreditation is a uniquely American system to assure educational and professional standards and overall quality. We do not have a minister education.

    Private entities, such as Foundations as well as state.licensing agencies deploy accreditation of programs in determining compliance with educational and professional standards and eligibility for licensure.

    DeSantis has expressed his opposition to accreditation, apparently owing to push back from his fascist ideas for education from accrediting agencies.


    I think he could be the second best of the lot (none / 0) (#133)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 06:29:29 PM EST
    I am pretty (none / 0) (#135)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 06:56:39 PM EST
    Sure Trump will be the Republican nominee. But, it may be getting harder and harder for him with every indictment.  Although the rules do not seem to apply to Trump, multiple indictments  including espionage act charges, is not a good look on any candidate's resume
    Rhonda is dropping like a rock-- there is an inverse relationship between knowing and liking him. My

    Not sure about Trump (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 08:12:43 PM EST
    being the nominee.  His numbers are slipping and Jack has not even used the big stick.

    You would (none / 0) (#142)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 09:01:44 PM EST
    think all this would change his numbers but yet they don't. The one that really seems to be collapsing already is DeSantis. Nobody else is out of low single digits.

    Not everywhere (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 07:25:22 AM EST

    DeSantis Running Much Stronger in Wisconsin
    June 28, 2023 at 4:55 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 136 Comments

    A Marquette University Law School Poll in Wisconsin finds Donald Trump edging Ron DeSantis in the GOP presidential race, 31% to 30%.

    But in a head-to-head matchup, DeSantis was favored by 57% and Trump by 41%.

    You would (none / 0) (#143)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 09:01:44 PM EST
    think all this would change his numbers but yet they don't. The one that really seems to be collapsing already is DeSantis. Nobody else is out of low single digits.

    DeSantis (none / 0) (#137)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 07:27:51 PM EST
    is worse than Trump in a general election. I don't know if the apt comparision is Jeb Bush or Scott Walker. He hasn't even started getting into the campaign swing yet and people already want him to go away. Those numbers are probably baked in now.

    There (none / 0) (#136)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 28, 2023 at 07:24:53 PM EST
    are consequences to loading up boards with white supremacist conspiracy theorists and grifters. Casey DeSantis and I graduated from the same college. I don't know where she got that crackpot garbage from.

    I get that Trump is way ahead right now. (none / 0) (#149)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 07:53:52 AM EST
    Right now is very early.  If you look you can find an increasing number of republicans, elected and otherwise, who know Trump can not win.

    Trump has never ran against a republican who was not afraid if him.  

    I really think Jack Smith, and this is 100% speculation, is going to drop charges that are going to be a legal bomb.  It looks like he could indict a whole bunch of MAGA heros.  Some, like Rudy but probably others, who will turn on Trump.

    I do not believe Trump will ultimately be the nominee.   If it looks like he will lose he will find a reason to quit or withdraw.

    As far as his lead increasing with each (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 09:27:43 AM EST
    new indictment, republicans are stupid and ill informed.  

    They are only hearing NEWSMAX and OAN.  but eventually ignoring  reality will become harder and harder.  It will, IMO, begin to break through that he is a loser and enough of them will have second thoughts about "owning the libs" by losing not just the three branches of federal but right across the country.  



    I would like to think (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by coast on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 11:37:25 AM EST
    that I don't fit into either of those categories, but I understand your point of view. :)

    Republicans (none / 0) (#163)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 12:30:13 PM EST
    who are responding to those polls.  

    Probably some owning the libs too.


    Koch (none / 0) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 10:26:07 AM EST

    Koch Network to Spend $70 Million Against Trump
    June 29, 2023 at 11:10 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 3 Comments

    "The political network established by the conservative industrialists Charles and David Koch has raised more than $70 million for political races as it looks to help Republicans move past Donald Trump, a Federal Election Commission filing will show," the New York Times reports.

    "With this large sum to start, the network plans to throw its weight into the G.O.P. presidential nominating contest for the first time in its history. The network spent nearly $500 million supporting Republican candidates and conservative policies in the 2020 election cycle alone."

    TFG's (none / 0) (#155)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM EST
    understudy, Meatball Mussolini,  is tanned, rested, and ready to take over "Loving Fascism, or Else".  The Republican show must go on.  

    What I think Meatball and his supporters miss (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 11:07:07 AM EST
    is Trump won because he is an entertainer.  IMO his popularity has nothing to do with policy.  You can not run to the right of Trump.  And you really can't do it with the personality of a root vegetable.

    Nothing funny or entertaining about the meatball.  Just the hateful stuff turned up to 11.

    I honestly don't know who the nom will be but I don't think it will be Trump or DeSatans.


    IMO (none / 0) (#176)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 06:33:12 PM EST
    this only "breakthrough" will happen once the trial starts for Trump. Then the conservative propaganda channels will be forced to cover it.

    Agreed (none / 0) (#158)
    by coast on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 11:35:23 AM EST
    I think its starting to sink in that he can't win the general, so many are starting look at the alternatives harder.

    The vast majority of my friends simply want him to simply go away (whether that's in a orange jumpsuit or not who knows).


    The big question is (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 12:27:14 PM EST
    will he go away.  He's totally nuts enough to call for a write in campaign or whatever it takes to remain the center of attention.

    "Hoist with his own petard" is a phrase from a speech in William Shakespeare's play Hamlet that has become proverbial. The phrase's meaning is that a bomb-maker is blown off the ground by his own bomb, and indicates an ironic reversal or poetic justice.

    The simple answer is no. (none / 0) (#164)
    by coast on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 12:33:11 PM EST
    He won't go away on his own.  No narcissist would.  Simply not in their nature.

    Now (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 09:56:48 AM EST
    the bad news

    Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action at colleges and universities

    Biden is on with Nicole Wallace this afternoon.  

    The Supreme Court (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 11:40:32 AM EST
    seems to have given the game away with a footnote to the majority's finding.  " The Court exempts military academies from its ruling in light of the `potentially' distinct interests they may present"

    In dissent, Justice Sotomayor says " to the extent the Court suggests national security interests are `distinct', those interests cannot explain the Court's narrow exemption,  as national security interests are also implicated at civilian universities"

    The carve out so as to reflect the diversity of the forces military officers will lead and the country they defend applies, in my view,  to the societal leadership incumbent upon an educated workforce and the nature of the  educational preparedness.


    I hear (none / 0) (#154)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 10:36:25 AM EST
    the Dom Perignon bottles popping at the Leonard Leo manse.

    Here's Bidens interview (none / 0) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 04:08:57 PM EST

    with Nicole Wallace

    Don't know if they include this in that video but when Nicole said thank you for your time (or whatever) he just hopped up and scampered off the set instead of sitting in his chair till they cut for commercial.

    It seemed unscripted.

    President Biden (none / 0) (#170)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 04:55:44 PM EST
    did a good job, as did Nicole Wallace as interviewer. Indeed, she helped him out on a couple of occasions when he seemed constrained by all the information he has but needed to be measured in what he said.

    Yes, I did notice his exit as well. I thought he would sit there until the break started and then leave.

    My only quarrel would be his stance on expanding the Supreme Court. He believes it would only increase its politicalization.  The Court is re-litigating the past century's progress.  He did, at least, assess that this Court is "not normal".  Yes,  just you wait Mr. Biden until tomorrow.  Just you wait.  


    If we are blessed by the gods (none / 0) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 05:01:49 PM EST
    and Trump is the nominee and we sweep both houses of congress I think he would reconsider that thing about expanding the court.

    But it's probably best to NOT talk about it.


    Yes, you're right. (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 05:17:58 PM EST
    In my view, Court reform is needed.  However, the President advocating for it, at this time, when it would go nowhere in the House and maybe not even in the Senate, would not be helpful.

    If they take away (none / 0) (#172)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 05:15:51 PM EST
    Student debt forgiveness tomorrow it will give Biden another 3-5%

    And, the case of a woman (none / 0) (#174)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 05:36:12 PM EST
    who is thinking about starting a web design firm, but if she does she will not design a web for same sex couples, because religion.  The trial court and appellate court have upheld the State of Colorado's anti-discrimination laws.  The Supreme Court's upholding the right of a baker not to make a cake for gays, does not augur well for this case either.

    If purported religious rights are lurking somewhere in the case, this Court is likely to find Constitutional protection.  This term, the Court ruled in favor of a Christina postal worker's accommodation for working on Sundays (a USPS agreement with Amazon), despite re-scheduling causing issues for co-workers.


    I have a hard time with (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 06:20:20 PM EST
    the cakes and websites.  
    I understand why it's needed but life would be easier if when someone says I don't want to make your web site you move on to one of the zillions of other people desperate to make your web site.  Or bake your cake.

    I hope our side wins but I'm not particularly invested in the outcome.


    The case is (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 09:00:46 PM EST
    Bigger than cakes and websites.  The claim is that the Colorado anti-discrimination law weaponizes speech it does not agree with and silences free speech. Moreover, the case involves whether a business can invoke religious objections to deny the sale of goods or the provision of services.

    The 10th Circuit in Denver , in upholding the district court, found a compelling interest in protecting dignity interests of marginalized groups through the anti-discrimination law.

     The  business has not been yet established, no one has been harmed, no gay couple has asked for a wedding website design, and no gay couple has been denied.  A finding of standing will require some major pretzel logic, which of course, is a challenge this Court has shown it is quite up to if necessary to reach the desired outcome.  


    The case seems grown in a think tank (none / 0) (#181)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 09:44:02 PM EST
    So I have a question.  If the website person loses and I was a web designer in CO, I considered web design once between contract jobs, and a group that I considered to be white nationalist - even tho there was no swastikas - wanted me to design them a website would I have to do it?

    Because I wouldn't.


    The thing is (none / 0) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 09:50:16 PM EST
    however just this cause may be, I gave no doubt it's just, it's a great example of the kind of thing that makes people who know nothing else about us dislike us.

    Making you (none / 0) (#184)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 10:17:15 PM EST
    design a website for white supremacy messaging would be view point discrimination, by my lights, which is a form of content discrimination.  The government must abstain from regulating speech motivating ideology, opinions or perspectives.

    The Colorado anti-discrimination law does not regulate speech, but this is the issue the Supreme Court is deciding. Is discrimination of the provision of services and goods on the basis of religious ideology the exercise  of free speech and, therefore, permissible?.


    I understand (none / 0) (#185)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 10:45:18 PM EST
    It would absolutely be against my religion to aid dissemination of white supremacy.

    And I understand it would never happen.  Just as this homophobe would never be asked to design gay stuff.

    They have become artists at isolating that one fact that pushes the buttons.  Cat boxes in middle school, boys competing against girls on high school sports, being forced to design a gay website by a law that was never intended to do that.

    We need to be smarter and better at framing.


    The case of the Colorado baker (5.00 / 3) (#177)
    by Peter G on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 07:16:27 PM EST
    was decided on narrow and unique-to-that-case grounds. Roberts claimed (disingenuously, but still) that in the hearing before the state human relations commission, the hearing examiner's comments displayed prejudice and hostility to religious claims. So the guy (supposedly) did not get a fair hearing before a neutral judge. They did not decide that he had a constitutional right to disregard the state's public accommodations law. When a racist hot dog vendor made that claim in 1968 (that the Bible prescribes separation of the races; therefore, he could not be required by federal law to serve Black customers) the Supreme Court laughed him out of the courthouse (end of footnote 5).
      The imaginary website lady has not been harmed in the real world; I don't understand how she has "standing" to sue. Guess we'll find out tomorrow.

    About today's news (none / 0) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 29, 2023 at 07:30:22 PM EST
    I'm hearing over and over by people who are supposed to know that the decision today was not just bad but wrong on the law?

    Is it?

    Not that I suppose it matters now.  Being done.


    6 to 3 (none / 0) (#186)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 09:07:25 AM EST
    No forced website creation.

    "Today is a sad day in American (5.00 / 3) (#189)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 01:47:32 PM EST
    constitutional law and in the lives of LGBT people.  The S.C. of the USA declares that a particular kind of business, though open to the public, has a constitutional right to refuse to serve members of a protected class.  The Court has done so for the first time in its history.  By issuing this new license to discriminate in a case brought by a company  that seeks to deny same sex couples the full and equal enjoyment of its services , the immediate, symbolic effect of the decision is to mark gays and lesbians for second-class status. ..inflicting a stigmatic harm, on top of any harm caused by denial of service."

    Justice Sotomayor, in dissent and for Justices Kagan and Jackson.

    Gorsuch, writing for the Court, sees a collision between Public Accommodation laws and the US Constitution.  And, the Free Speech Clause shields "customized expressions".

     Justice Sotomayor reminds that backlash has long given rise to exemptions for public accommodations and  legal claims of rights to discriminate, including First Amendment rights

    The issue of standing or "pre-enforcement challenge" was pretty much glossed over, other than if 303 Creations(Lorie Smith) started to design wedding websites for the public, her for-profit company would face a "credible threat" of running afoul of Colorado discrimination laws.

    Gorsuch was seemingly stung by the dissent, taking on the opinions and words of Sotomayor, such as her claim that the majority's logic, in some instances, was amusing if not embarrassing.  

    303 Creatives (Lorie Smith) was defended by Alliance Defending Freedom, whose founder describes as a Christian Legal Army. And, an amicus brief on behalf of 303 Creations was filed by the right-wing Manhattan Institute, whose Board Chairman is Paul Singer, the billionaire benefactor of Salmon Sam.


    Unintended consequences (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 02:00:20 PM EST
    Theres the obvious ones that will flow from the permission inferred.  

    But I can see others.  Some they might not like.  


    I agree. (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 02:07:03 PM EST
    My church has young people call and as if we do gay weddings (we do). They absolutely do not understand how important this issue is to young people. If you don't support gay rights they don't want to hear anything else you have to say. The supreme court again is way out of touch with America and if they think they can legislate us back to 1950 they have another thing coming.

    Best idea I have seen to the solution to the court is term limits. Make it 18 years and make it retroactive. That way we won't have this type of garbage happening.

    There is a reason that only 25% of Americans support the supreme court. This sort of hackish legisation justifies their opinions.


    Sorry, But I Don't Understand Your Logic (none / 0) (#196)
    by RickyJim on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 02:31:22 PM EST
    Among current Supreme Court justices, only Thomas has been on the Supreme Court for more than 18 years.  We only allow judicial supremacy in this country because the legislative branch is so poorly designed and ineffective.  In my ideal world (a.k.a new constitution), everything the Court has meddled in this week, should have been handled by a balance of the executive and legislative branches.

    It is to get rid (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 02:45:11 PM EST
    of these lifetime appointments for bought off Federalist Society judges. It would create staggered terms where every so many years a judge would roll off and we wouldn't be at the mercy of them dying. Thomas' term would be tricky and someone who replaced him might not get a full 18 year term but Roberts would roll off in September and Alito in January.

    I see (none / 0) (#187)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 09:12:10 AM EST
    unintended consequences.  

    I am so (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 02:02:27 PM EST
    tired of all this. I think businesses should just be required to state who they serve like this person should say on their website they will not work for gay Americans. Save everybody the time and trouble.

    Allegedly - as I understand it (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 02:16:56 PM EST
    that was her plan.  But her concern was when she did that the state would come after her using it's scary DEI stuff.  So she had to sue to see if she could safely open a business without a government jackboot on her neck.

    This is made up crap IMO. this whole thing was thought up by a think tank.

    The person will probably realize she can make more on the right wing talk circuit and forget about web design.  If that was ever the plan.


    Well (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 02:48:28 PM EST
    all the courts have done is make things worse for conservatives IMO. Now are restaurants going to be able to refuse service to black people? Many baptist churches teach that black people are inherently evil. Are you going to deny women a job because it's against your religious values? Any pharmacy would be crazy to hire a catholic after this. You can refuse to do anything because of your religious beliefs and I am old enough to remember conservatives being mad because Muslims were refusing to check out pork at Target.

    Well (none / 0) (#199)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 02:48:28 PM EST
    all the courts have done is make things worse for conservatives IMO. Now are restaurants going to be able to refuse service to black people? Many baptist churches teach that black people are inherently evil. Are you going to deny women a job because it's against your religious values? Any pharmacy would be crazy to hire a catholic after this. You can refuse to do anything because of your religious beliefs and I am old enough to remember conservatives being mad because Muslims were refusing to check out pork at Target.

    Lot's. of consequences, (5.00 / 3) (#200)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 03:53:44 PM EST
    starting with blowing off standing.  Just take a case in which the majority is sympathetic to the plaintiff.   No need for real facts, or circumstances, what coercion was exercised, you know, an actual case,  Now hypothetical cases and controversies will do.

    This is the kind of the the press loves (none / 0) (#188)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 09:19:49 AM EST
    I hope it doesn't crowd out the coverage of the student debt decision which is less divisive so less attractive as a subject.  

    This opinion by (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 02:26:02 PM EST
    Chief Justice Roberts was a mess, including in the opinion, his defense of the Court's integrity--when you have to do so, you have already lost it.

    The student loan forgiveness is a big issue and will not be lost, even in the coverage of the loss of a 50year program, affirmative action, and the license to discriminate so as to run your business the way you like. This affects a lot of people in number and in their finances.  President Biden tried, only to be vetoed by these political hacks.


    I am so (none / 0) (#192)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 30, 2023 at 02:02:27 PM EST
    tired of all this. I think businesses should just be required to state who they serve like this person should say on their website they will not work for gay Americans. Save everybody the time and trouble.