Sunday Open Thread: In Other News

The Washington Post this week has two long-form news articles that contain far more detail than any of us need to know. The first is (in my view) a clear example of just how far off the deep end some Americans have jumped. Irrational and uncivilized behavior seems not only to be the norm for these people, but they are teaching and promoting it to their young children, passing the violence off as a "sport."

If it didn't contain the names of American cities, I would have thought the article was referring to Brazil, El Salvador, or Indonesia. This is no sport -- it's savagery. It's the kind of violence you would expect from caged animals. Only it's children who are in the cages.

The parents who not only endorse, but pay for their kids to engage in this violence, and who attend and cheer on their kids, don't deserve to raise kids. Maybe we could ship them all to El Salvador to live for a year, after which authorities check in with them and see if the kids still think that beating the sh*t out of another kid is cool, and if the parents are still cheering when watching their kid get their as* kicked by a gang member with no training. [More...]

As for anyone who thought the next generation will be less prone to violence if we take away guns, guess what? Fists can be just as lethal, especially to the head. And much more so to a young head with a not-yet fully developed brain.

The era of striving to raise a happy, well-rounded, educated, perhaps artistically talented and/or physically active, who embraces diversity and is able to resolve differences without resorting to violence, is sadly over.

The second article is Anger and heartbreak on Bus No. 15 , about a bus driver driving the downtown route in Denver, which includes Colfax Avenue and Union Station. (Downtown Denver, particularly Union Station, has been deluged with increasing homeless people this past year, many of whom are seriously mentally challenged or drug-dependent).

Denver's Union Station problem with the homeless and mentally ill has been reported by local news several times but nothing like this exposé.

The driver, a Turkish immigrant who has driven this route for 10 years and whose smiling face is on the side of many buses, indeed seems to be a saint, but the stories of her poor, mentally troubled, drug-addicted, violent, physically impaired passengers go from sad to sickening as the incidents get more and more bizarre. As I read further along, I don't even recognize my own city. But because the author names the streets the bus stops along, and I am familiar with those intersections, I have no doubt he's accurately describing the scene. (I can't speak to whether those he interviewed who told him the stories are embellishing or not).

Seriously, the negativity unleashed by this long-form article is so great I think some people may get PTSD just from reading it. I can't imagine how the journalist who wrote the article could stand to delve into such sadness and madness for the months it it likely took him to elicit such minutiae from so many different people.

Sometimes exposing the truth can result in change as people get outraged by the plight of one group or another. Unfortunately, I think this article will just make more people turn away in disgust, determined to avoid downtown Denver at all costs, which will be a shame. Especially if Union Station, which was recently re-developed as an upscale transportation hub and tourist attraction at a cost of $500 million, with nearby expensive new high-rise apartments, restaurants, bars, supermarkets and even some historic buildings, ends up like the equivalent of the Bowery in Manhattan. The Denver bus union president calls it a "lawless hellhole".

As for the bus driver, I hope she opts for a different job. Driving the same bus route for 10 years (making the same 228 stops on Colfax Avenue each shift) can't be healthy for anyone. She's a vibrant young woman -- her life should be more than driving this bus route and going home to an empty apartment to burn sage incense and drink "a calming herbal tea". She's obviously dependable, caring, and accomplished. She should be elevated to a managerial position or be offered a managerial job by some other company reading the WaPo article.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Peaky Blinders (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 06:30:29 PM EST
    When I went to watch the new season that just dropped (6) I realized I never got around to 5.

    What a great show.

    No spoilers! (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 12:37:08 PM EST
    I'm restarting Netflix on 1 July just to see the new season of Peaky Blinders.

    I read yesterday (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 12:42:31 PM EST
    that there was going to be a 7th season but now it's going to be a movie.  

    That will be the end of the story as far as the current show runners are concerned.


    When I die (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 12:31:22 PM EST
    I want to be burned in a gypsy wagon.

    While living (none / 0) (#83)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 04:50:20 PM EST
    I want Gina's apartment--Art Deco-ish/Hollywood Regency out of the 30s

    The previous brush with fascism (none / 0) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 10:31:17 AM EST
    Joseph P.Kennedy, Sr. (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 12:09:19 PM EST
    is, in my view, the most fascinating of the Kennedy Family. Not necessarily, of course, in a good way but as a very interesting historical figure. Two biographies, The Patriarch and Sins of the Father, are great reads.  Joe, Sr is the guy who created the fortune , married Rose, daughter of Boston mayor, John Fitzgerald, and a devout Catholic, who overlooked the assorted mistresses and shady dealings.

    Joe Sr. paid a price for his fascist flirtations before the war in terms of a subsequent stymied political career and, personally, in the wartime loss of his eldest son, Joe,Jr. his daughter,Kick, and the injury of Jack.

    And, as if a member of the Media, it is incumbent upon me to do some bothsiderism:  Prescott Bush, grandfather of W. and  father of Daddy Bush , carried on business arrangements with the Nazi's before the war.


    I think probably more people (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 12:22:37 PM EST
    know about Bush and the Nazis.

    Oh no, no one could have predicted.... (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by desertswine on Fri Jun 17, 2022 at 04:08:37 PM EST

    The lead Republican negotiator for what would be the US Senate's first gun control bill in a generation has walked out of talks with Democrats.

    Texas Senator John Cornyn has played a key role in drafting the framework of a proposed firearms bill following mass shootings in Texas and New York.

    Leaving Washington, he said: "I'm through talking."

    My way or the highway. (none / 0) (#140)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 17, 2022 at 05:46:21 PM EST
    Only if you are a Republican (none / 0) (#141)
    by jmacWA on Sat Jun 18, 2022 at 04:56:53 AM EST
    And only if you can spin it (none / 0) (#142)
    by Peter G on Sat Jun 18, 2022 at 10:59:38 AM EST
    to look like your bad faith is the other side's fault.

    Unfortunately (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jun 18, 2022 at 11:48:05 AM EST
    they have that technic down pat from decades of employing it successfully.

    I would like to think that it won't work this time but it probably will.


    Before the Republicans are done (none / 0) (#144)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jun 18, 2022 at 12:14:50 PM EST
    they will allow more people to get there guns back under the red flag law than will lose them.

    "The question of restoring the gun-ownership rights of romantic partners has opened a debate about whether spouses, ex-spouses and current or former co-habitants should also have a pathway to regaining gun-ownership rights after being convicted of misdemeanor abuse charges. "


    AXIOS (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 02:05:40 PM EST

    AG Garland: States can't ban FDA-approved abortion pills on safety grounds

    Attorney General Merrick Garland said in a statement Friday, in the wake of the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, that states cannot ban mifepristone, a medication that is used to bring about an abortion, based on disagreement with the federal government on its safety and efficacy.

    Why it matters: With Roe overturned, prescribed drugs that terminate pregnancies are likely to become the next major contention between abortion rights activists and opponents of abortion rights.

    President Biden (none / 0) (#190)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 02:10:04 PM EST
    mentioned this.in his emotional takedown of the Supreme Court's decision.

    I also want to see a clear (none / 0) (#191)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 02:12:52 PM EST
    federal pronouncement that no state has the legal authority to regulate what can be carried and delivered by U.S. Mail, even within or into that state.

    I would think the next square of crazy (none / 0) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 02:21:40 PM EST
    will be laws to prosecute women who go to another state for an abortion.

    I have not kept up.  Perhaps this is already a thing.  If not it will be.


    Yes, that is another federally-protected right (none / 0) (#194)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 02:39:17 PM EST
    that should be articulated. That is it the position of the US DoJ (or should be) that the constitutionally protected right of interstate travel does not leave room for a state to attempt to penalize someone for traveling out of state to engage in conduct that is lawful in the other state, even if the same conduct would be unlawful in the home state. E.g., West Virginia may have no exception to its drug laws for medical marijuana, but cannot penalize a WV resident for traveling to PA to acquire and use (in PA) what PA law allows to be done in PA. Nor does any state have authority to regulate international travel, even by its own citizens. (Texas cannot bar a Texan from going to Mexico for an abortion.)

    Kavanaugh says he agrees with me (none / 0) (#198)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 04:21:51 PM EST
    (Ok, he didn't mention me specifically):  "some of the other abortion-related legal questions raised by today's decision are not especially difficult as a constitutional matter. For example, may a State bar a resident of that State from traveling to another State to obtain an abortion? In my view, the answer is no, based on the constitutional right to interstate travel."

    Email from local ACLU (none / 0) (#199)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 04:31:04 PM EST
    re planned protest starts with the leaders pronouns in parentheses followed by a link to video re pronoun choices.  Get to the point!!

    President Biden (none / 0) (#200)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 04:31:56 PM EST
    agrees with you, too.

    This image (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 07:40:42 AM EST
    Showed up on one of my relatives FB post yesterday.

    the shirt is better than the sign

    I contacted her offline to ask if she understood what it meant and how hateful and offensive it was.

    She said she did not.  But it has not been taken down.  

    One more in a long list of people I once thought were reasonable in their heart gone forever from my life.

    I am reminded what a privileged bubble (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Peter G on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 12:42:40 PM EST
    I am lucky to live in. Yesterday, I "tabled" for ACLU at a local Pride festival organized by queer and trans public high school students. Hundreds of supporters of all ages turned out, including many parents and other family members with their queer kids. Lots of community groups of all sorts had tables, along with craft and food vendors. The musical performances were good, too. (Quite a few of all ages responded to an invitation to gather before the stage to dance to a rendition of the B-52s' "Love Shack.") Also present were older members of the local gay community, and dozens of supportive local residents of all sorts.

    I should have mentioned also (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Peter G on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 01:58:35 PM EST
    a fairly large number of gay and trans parents with their (to all appearances) straight kids. Super-positive atmosphere all around.

    We just elected a gay mayor (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 02:44:06 PM EST
    I have my own bubble (none / 0) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 12:58:04 PM EST
    Reporting on these things, which I feel I need to do, might give you a skewed view of my life.

    I never interact with these people.  Unless I choose to for a holiday or something which happens less and less.

    Facebook is the extent of our contact.  Pretty much.


    And then there's this story from Idaho, ... (none / 0) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 05:04:54 PM EST
    ... in which 31 armed members of the neo-Nazi militia group Patriot Front were intercepted on Saturday by state and local law enforcement officers while allegedly en route to attack a Pride event in Coeur d'Alene.

    Some of these far-right yahoos traveled from 11 different states across the country to northern Idaho in order to engage in this sort of nonsensical violence against people they don't even know, only to instead find themselves arrested by the Deep State on charges of conspiracy to riot.

    You can't reason with the irrational. But what we can and must do is exact a high price from them for the trouble.



    Yes, exactly. It was hearing that story (none / 0) (#22)
    by Peter G on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 05:16:42 PM EST
    on NPR that inspired me to post about my experience at yesterday's community festival.

    Ut will they be convicted? Doubt it. (none / 0) (#25)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 07:16:27 PM EST
    Also, too, (none / 0) (#28)
    by leap2 on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 07:56:31 PM EST
    it must have been painful for [some of] those cops to arrest people with whom they sympathize.

    Crossing state lines with the intent (none / 0) (#29)
    by Peter G on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 10:01:24 PM EST
    to foment a riot is a federal offense (pertinent definition of "riot" found here), as is a conspiracy to deprive others of their civil rights (such as the rights of peaceable assembly and freedom of expression). And those offenses are not misdemeanors.

    Social media plus (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 11:54:03 PM EST
    Ill-advised blabbering may do it.

    To the point if your post (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 07:50:00 AM EST
    this is her banner FB pic.  Her grandchildren.

    I promise you they are being trained per you post.

    It's starting to show in the face of the kid on the left.  Who's parents are probably the most hateful and dangerous relatives I have.  Both are cops.


    Update (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 07:04:09 AM EST
    The dead eyed Opie holding the sign was arrested for assaulting a clerk in a convenience store.

    Don't really know the details but I was glad to hear it.


    Better than nothing (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 01:20:14 PM EST
    I guess.  The most important thing it will do is allow them to say they did "something".

    Still, it is something.

    Senators Reach Bipartisan Deal on Gun Safety
    June 12, 2022 at 12:35 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 220 Comments

    "Senate negotiators announced on Sunday they had agreed on a bipartisan outline for a narrow set of gun safety measures with sufficient support to move through the evenly divided chamber, a significant step toward ending a yearslong congressional impasse on the issue," the New York Times reports.

    "The plan, endorsed by 10 Republicans and 10 Democrats, would include funding for mental health resources, boosting school safety and grants for states to implement so-called red flag laws that allow authorities to confiscate guns from people deemed to be dangerous. It would also expand the nation's background check system to include juvenile records for any prospective gun buyer under the age of 21."

    Washington Post: "That indicated that the agreement could have enough GOP support to defeat a filibuster, the Senate supermajority rule that has impeded prior gun legislation."


    Apparently they have to say it is a plan (none / 0) (#6)
    by Peter G on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 01:56:09 PM EST
    for improved "gun safety" not "gun control."

    Gun safety (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 03:09:24 PM EST
    is the term coined by Moms Demand Action for gun control. Both are essentially regulating gun ownership.

    Let's hope it is better than nothing (none / 0) (#9)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 02:48:09 PM EST
    This is basically Republican legislation that discounts entirely the impact of guns on the carnage.

    I will be very interested in seeing the details of what  mental health components are actually enacted.

    If the reality of the implementation turns out to be funding for more guns and a more prison like atmosphere in our schools, it will IMO be worse than nothing.


    My (none / 0) (#10)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 02:59:19 PM EST
    impression is that it is marginally better than nothing, most Dem's seemed resigned to the fact that's the best they are going to get and are resigned to the fact that baby steps are better tghan no steps.

    I do cringe at thought of the tounge bath these "reasonable" Repugs are going to get from the media.


    Even this (none / 0) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 03:08:03 PM EST
    mild legislation has Republicans threatening to sit home in November.

    At least it is a start moving the ball forward.


    FWIW (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 03:04:54 PM EST
    here is Chris Murphy's take on the legislation: link

    "Don't let perfect (none / 0) (#18)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 04:21:15 PM EST
    be the enemy of the good."  But, don't let deceit be the friend of the good, either.   While Senator Chris Murphy deserves great credit for his sincere and tireless efforts, some  senators party to this working agreement can be recognized as being among the least trustworthy of senators (e.g., Susan Collins, Lindsey, Tillis, Manchin, and Cornyn) or Coons, who believes that if bipartisan it is good if not perfect.  Of course, we might also be buoyed by hope that even these senators have seen the light---at least until they think the heat is off and provides gun safety talk for Republicans.  See, they are not such fascists, after all.

    Such legislation, puny to the problem, may be a baby step or a bully sop. Never-the-less, the  agreement does offer the important benefits of closing the "boyfriend loophole", straw purchases, and funding for mental heath, which may have good unintended consequences even if misdirected or undirected.

     Additional school security surely does not mean banning AR 15s, but hopefully it does not mean banning doors.  Or, funding school police departments or bullet-proof blankets to be donned  in case of a shooter on the rampage.

    The more responsibility given to the states for administration and enforcement and the less federal involvement the more skepticism is warranted.


    Surprise, surprise (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 09:59:46 AM EST
    Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) characterized the new gun safety legislation as a political loss for President Joe Biden.

    Don't be surprised if the final legislation is watered down even further. Lucy is still holding the football.


    I agree with Steve M (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 06:02:25 PM EST

    So it's a done deal, right? Well, no:

    "The details will be critical for Republicans, particularly the firearms-related provisions," said a GOP aide familiar with the talks. "One or more of these principles could be dropped if text is not agreed to."

    Money also stands to be a sticking point. The framework proposes funding commitments that could easily run into the billions of dollars, and Republicans want any new spending to be offset with cuts elsewhere in the federal budget, people involved in the negotiations said.

    At least one of the ten Republicans who agreed to this framework will have to back away in order to prevent the legislation from passing. (Republicans, who protect their own, won't isolate one senator that way, so several will undoubtedlyturn against the bill.)

     Some excuses:the gun provisions "deprive law-abiding citizens of their fundamental right to protect themselves and their loved ones," ...It costs too much... Dems won't agree to offset the spending with the precise mix of budget cuts Republicans demand...it's the gays...

    And then in the right-wing news silo the message will go out that Republicans were reasonable, but radical left socialist Democrats killed the bill. And so the libs will be owned, the football will be yanked away from Charlie Brown yet again, and victory will be achieved. Rinse and repeat, ad infinitum.

    Okay. (none / 0) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 10:45:29 AM EST
    So what is the solution? Nothing we want is going to happen right now.

    And don't let Cornyn gaslight you.


    Cornyn is not gaslighting me (none / 0) (#35)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 02:09:22 PM EST
    He may be gaslighting the Dems who he is supposedly working with in a bipartisan way. As proven, there is no intent on his part to be bipartisan. What minute solution available is for the Dems to start blowing their own horn and stop with the BS of wonderful bipartisan solutions and fantastic reliable Republicans.

    Cornyn's job (none / 0) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 08:59:43 PM EST
    is to demoralize Dems and lie to Republicans. I really don't care what he says. If you don't think he's an honest broker on legislation then I don't know why you'd care what he says about whether Biden is getting what he wants or not.

    I saw a program with David Gergen yesterday and he said Biden needs to find 3 things and run with those over and over.


    As usual, (none / 0) (#55)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 11:53:37 PM EST
    you are completely missing the point.

    No (none / 0) (#57)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 05:38:41 AM EST
    Cornyn is trolling you, the whole Republican party is nothing more than a pack of lame trolls.

    We all know any bill is going to weak tea, if they want to portray themselves as obstructionists more interested about dunking on Biden then helping Americans have at it.


    Thank you. (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 08:59:32 AM EST
    This is exactly my point. Look at what is or isn't in the bill and ignore the Republicans.

    I doubt that (none / 0) (#63)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 11:35:21 AM EST
    the Republicans will be labeled as obstructionists.  If this bill is weakened into a non event or does not pass, the Republicans and the press will strongly state the Republicans tried to be reasonable but the Democrats and the radical socialist left prevented gun safety.

    You haven't been paying attention if you believe this will play out any differently.


    I (none / 0) (#71)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 02:08:38 PM EST
    have little faith in the media, but there is no reason to help them along by unilaterally conceding that we are losers.

    Helping the Republicans along? (none / 0) (#80)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 04:32:04 PM EST
    IMO, Democrats discussing reasonable and responsible Republicans while these same "reasonable and responsible Republicans" are using every opportunity to label Biden and their Democratic counterparts as losers is conceding to the Republicans framing.

    The fact that their comments do not resonate with you does not mean they do not have impact with the voting public.

    Also, to think for a moment that I'm the target of their remarks is IMO laughable.


    SAD but TRUE (none / 0) (#76)
    by jmacWA on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 03:38:35 PM EST
    You haven't been paying attention if you believe this will play out any differently.

    The mainstream media is definitely anti Democrat, and will praise the GOP if it is given the slightest opportunity.


    Well (none / 0) (#79)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 04:27:19 PM EST
    lets read the script.

    No matter what happens Republicans beat themelves on the chest and declare victory, the media cover this.

    No matter what happens a certain percentage of Democrats bemoan their defeat, the media covers this.

    Voila, the Democrats are labled losers or at best in "disarray".

    It's hard to change the narrative if you are contributing to it.


    It is hard to change the narrative (none / 0) (#81)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 04:43:03 PM EST
    If you continue to label Republicans as reasonable and responsible all the while they continue to label Democrats as socialists losers. Of course, the corporate and conservative Dem PACs and politicians reinforce this narrative at every opportunity.

    I'm not the one contributing to the loser mentality.


    Unfortunately (none / 0) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 05:50:29 PM EST
    we do have people in the party stupid enough to label themselves "socialists" so in essence they are the ones helping the R's with that label. It would be a lot more helpful for us if there were Republicans calling themselves Fascist-Republicans wouldn't it?

    What's truly unfortunate (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by jmacWA on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 04:47:55 AM EST
    is that the people of this country have been dumbed down enough by the GOP master plan, to equate socialist and communist.  

    I would have no problem with this IF all those who thought socialism was in and of it self BAD would simply refuse Social Security and Medicare.

    IMO there is nothing wrong with a Social Democracy.


    I get that (none / 0) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 09:15:20 AM EST
    but why slap such a toxic label on yourself?

    I think they (none / 0) (#93)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 07:51:06 AM EST
    are running as Democratic Socialists.

    What is truly unfortunate is other Democrats who actually know this fact and should know the difference, are enthusiastically jumping on the Republican bandwagon to label them as socialists. They would much rather support so called Dem candidates who vote to defeat cheaper drug prices and label the impeachment of Trump as a lynching. Then, of course, they do not stop there. In order to try and elect their corporate funded Dem, they label candidates who have never ran as Democratic Socialists, such  as John Fetterman, as socialists.

    For those who are still confused (willing or otherwise), here is a brief tutorial

    American politicians today who are associated with democratic socialism generally favor New Deal-style programs, believing that government is a force for good in people's lives and that a large European-style welfare state can exist in a capitalist society. They generally support ideas such as labor reform and pro-union policies, tuition-free public universities and trade schools, universal healthcare, federal jobs programs, fair taxation that closes loopholes that the wealthiest citizens have found, and using taxes on the rich and corporations to pay for social welfare programs.

    Nobody (none / 0) (#95)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 09:21:08 AM EST
    knows what a Democratic Socialist is. It's a completely made up term by Bernie Sanders. Even the Democratic Socialist label reinforces the negative image of socialism by implying that they are not "that kind of socialist". It isn't about what other democrats think. It's about the general toxicity of the label they have chosen for themselves. Their equivalent in Europe calls themselves "Social Democrats" but the only reason I can guess for their name is because they hate the D party so much they don't want the party name in their self identification.

    If you're explaining you're losing and you're pretty much backing up my claims if you are have to explain exactly what "democratic socialism" is.   Even the PM of Denmark rejected that label.


    You asked why politicians would (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 02:05:08 PM EST
    label themselves a toxic label like socialists. The answer is they don't. You and the Republicans chose to assign them the label and proceed to tell everyone in your sphere how toxic they are.

    The statement that "nobody knows what a Democratic Socialists is" is completely false. Millions of Americans have voted for politicians who have run as Democratic Socialists. They actually like policies like universal, affordable healthcare, good education and affordable college, good paying jobs and preserving SS.

    You lose when people of the party chose to adopt Republican talking points and chose to label people running against Republicans as socialists especially when they know that is a false statement. The explanation of the difference between a socialist government and a Democratic Socialists or Social Democrat government is extremely simple. You could choose that option rather than help defeat our candidates by adopting the Republican framing.

    BTW, the meme "If you're explaining you're losing" is total BS; unless of course, you choose to label Biden and all Democratic candidates who spend a great deal of time explaining their agenda as losers.

    I'm done with this subject. So you can proceed with your need to call people socialists.


    They are (2.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 03:09:38 PM EST
    labeling themselves with a toxic label. Socialism is a toxic label no matter how you try to twist or or what other words you combine it with. Do you think Fascist Republican is better than just Republican?

    The people labeling themselves is not my fault. The fact that socialism is a toxic word is not my fault. It is called dealing with the reality. Have some people voted for "democratic socialists"? Sure. But they also might be voters who would vote for outright socialists. There is around 38% of the country after all that would vote for a socialist. It's just toxic to 62% of the country. There's no GOP talking points there.


    Give (none / 0) (#107)
    by FlJoe on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 06:03:54 PM EST
    it GA, it's like arguing with bernie-bots or toddlers.

    For many reasons the word socialism has accquired a negative connotation and IMO outmoded anyway.

    Instead of just ditching the word and come up with some new rhetoric all they can do is whine about how unfair it is that their precious ideology  is misunderstood by the public and undermined by the likes of us.

    They rather cling to their rhetoric than win elections.


    No one is whining about being misunderstood (none / 0) (#108)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 06:27:38 PM EST
    What is objectionable is lying. The politicians are not labeling themselves as socialists. That is a lie. It doesn't matter how many time you or anyone else write that they are labeling themselves socialists, it is still a lie. Talk about an alternative reality. As you cling to your erroneous rhetoric, you lecture others to cease using a label that the politicians do not in fact use. You and the Republicans use that label. The politicians do not.

    Evidently, the Dems who want to label politicians as socialists would rather have Oz in the Senate than John Fetterman (only one example) since they spent big during the primary to label him a socialist. A well financed lie, is still a lie. So please don't lecture about winning elections. Evidently, your erroneous labels are more important to you than winning elections.

    Also, I can't think of anything more infantile than chanting socialists over and over again thinking it will make the lies true.


    Bernie (none / 0) (#109)
    by FlJoe on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 06:37:44 PM EST
    Sanders come on down, I mean come on. Selective memory or something.

    The S word should never be used as an identifier or an attack IMO.


    You seem to be arguing (none / 0) (#118)
    by jmacWA on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 04:50:19 AM EST
    that there are words that should be banned.  When the issue is that there are ignorant people who are being swayed to give meanings to words that just aren't there.

    Just because the GOP's 40+ year effort to dumb down Americans has been so successful is no reason for those of us not effected by it to give in.


    You (none / 0) (#119)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 05:15:47 AM EST
    I agree that the Republicans have been winning the rhetorical war for decades.

    Obviously the Democrats are doing something wrong, I think they should go on the attack and I absolutely think that defending "misunderstood" words is a waste of time. It may not be "giving in" but it is surely fighting thj last war.


    SO (none / 0) (#121)
    by jmacWA on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 05:46:59 AM EST
    you're are advocating dumbing down the rest of the American population to meet the lowest common denominator?

    If so, I don't agree at all.  Although I can see that the oligarchs who seem to be controlling our government would love this idea.


    No (none / 0) (#122)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 06:43:42 AM EST
    I am not worried about the undumb, presumably they can think for themselves.

    Republicans discovered a long time ago how to weaponize the political dumbness of most Americans and frankly Democrats have been a total failure in countering it.

    I am not pretending to know the answer to this, but going all pedantic on them just isn't going to work.


    When I was employed by (none / 0) (#128)
    by leap2 on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 09:10:57 AM EST
    the USForest Service in the early 1990s, part of my job was working on interpretive signs and brochures. I endured workshops and committee meetings and brainstorming sessions and presentations by experts-in-the-field. One of things that was drummed into us was to write texts at an "eighth-grade level." Short sentences. Short words. Uncomplicated contexts. That was really hard to do.

    Now, I think the rule-of-thumb is to write at a sixth-grade level.

    Or maybe, not write at all. Pictographs and hieroglyphs are the way  to go.


    I agree (none / 0) (#125)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 08:48:15 AM EST
    with you here. I would just say if anybody asked that every party has nuts and the Dem-Soc are our nuts. Don't explain what it is. You can explain until you're blue in the face and it makes no difference. The GOP actually wants us to spend time "explaining" what Dem-Soc is because if you're explaining you're losing.

    I said (none / 0) (#124)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 08:44:42 AM EST
    nothing about banning. I am just pointing out it's pretty stupid to slap a known toxic label on yourself.

    On another blog (none / 0) (#96)
    by jmacWA on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 10:02:52 AM EST
    I comment on I got into this same discussion, and someone posited that we should talk about pro-social welfare politicians and anti-social welfare politicians.  

    I think this pretty much sums up the way I think about it, and there are very few pro-social welfare politicians and many anti-social politicians including many in the Democratic party.


    Well (none / 0) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 10:35:54 AM EST
    that is at least a move in the right direction but I'm not sure I would use the word "welfare". Outside of Manchin I'm not aware of any D's against most of these things.

    I know (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by jmacWA on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 03:24:11 PM EST
    you know what welfare in that context means.

    If you chose to look at it differently there is not much I can do about that.

    One Democrat who is definitely a problem is Connor Lamb, who labled Fetterman a socialist.  This makes him part of the problem not part of the solution.


    This discussion (3.00 / 2) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 09:05:38 AM EST
    is starting to sound like defenders of the confederate flag here in GA. It's a symbol used by the KKK for quite a while but they are constantly embracing it saying oh, it doesn't mean that. It means southern pride or being against the government or some such. However the fact of the matter is the flag is the symbol of the KKK and the symbol is ruined. The swastika used to be a benign symbol too. Certain words, phrases and symbols are ruined either fairly or unfairly. Even if something is ruined unfairly it doesn't change the fact that it is ruined.

    Didn't (1.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 09:10:02 AM EST
    at one point Fetterman self identify as a socialist?  Or was it just his embrace of Bernie Sanders where he got that label? But then didn't he stomp on that label too saying he isn't a socialist?

    Connor Lamb lost so does it matter what he said at this point?


    Of course it matters (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by jmacWA on Fri Jun 17, 2022 at 06:20:10 AM EST
    because it will likely be used in GOP ads against Fetterman.

    No he did not (none / 0) (#130)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 09:50:58 AM EST
    At no time did Fetterman ever say he was a socialist. Maybe you could do some actual research before you start spreading your socialist BS.

    Bipartisan my azz (none / 0) (#40)
    by jmacWA on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 03:27:29 PM EST
    Agreed MO.

    Exactly what I predicted, Republicans will use this bill against the dems.  If there are any principled Dems who vote against this the wailing will be high decibel.

    This is NOT the gun control bill that the majority of Americans want, this is a GOP CYA bill.


    Axios (none / 0) (#21)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 05:13:41 PM EST
    The framework discussed  is the maximum and not necessarily the minimum of what might be in the final legislation. It could definitely be pared back during the write up.

    What to watch: As always with major legislation, especially something as controversial as gun safety, how the bill is ultimately written will be crucial.

    The biggest obstacle the group faces is translating an agreement on principles into legislative text that doesn't alienate any of the Senate Republicans it needs to get over the 60-vote finish line.

    "The details will be critical for Republicans, particularly the firearms-related provisions. One or more of these principles could be dropped if text is not agreed to," a Republican aide involved in the negotiations told Axios.



    $$ for mental health treatment. (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 07:18:52 PM EST
    And support (?) for states that choose to enact red flag laws.

    Only for the GOP (none / 0) (#14)
    by jmacWA on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 03:34:54 PM EST
    For the Democrats this bill is NOTHING that should have the word Gun in its title.  This is simply a bill that will allow the GOP to claim they did something about guns.  That is the sole purpose of this 'bipartisan' law, totally useless for anything but GOP butt covering.

    To me it looks like what they did was not much, the only thing that approaches keeping guns out of anyone's hands is the fact that if you are under 21, now the background check will include your juvenile record.

    Any state that might consider implementing the so called 'Red Flag' laws would have already done so, and encouraging states to do so will have zero affect (IMO) on any states which have not yet implemented such laws.


    That's all true (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 03:53:09 PM EST
    But I actually think doing anything

    like, at all

    is a not insignificant act.  After, what, 30 years?

    The thing about a "slippery slope" is, it's true.


    As stated by jmacWA, (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 04:13:00 PM EST
    the encouragement of red flag laws is a non event.

    This band aide on a gaping wound will allow Politicians to say we did something to address the problem and justify not doing anything else for the next 30 years.  


    The most (2.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 04:35:00 PM EST
    important thing I see is now gun trafficking is a federal offense or will be when this passes. Maybe the gun sellers in places like here in GA will think twice before doing all those straw purchases when they are looking at time in the pen for trafficking.

    Because what we need in this country (none / 0) (#23)
    by Peter G on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 05:18:48 PM EST
    is more federal crimes. Not a chance in hell that this law will result, in the real world, in anything other than locking up more hapless Black male 20-somethings.

    I agree (none / 0) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 04:14:40 PM EST
    with you. I bet there are a lot of Republicans that vote against even this bill. I bet those 10 Republicans that are writing the bill with the Dems are the only ones to vote for it. And Tom Tillis is one of the 10. Expect this to cost him votes in NC in November. Too many NRA purists there.

    Enough foreplay (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 12, 2022 at 07:46:03 PM EST
    I think (none / 0) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 04:56:07 AM EST
    Fani Willis is going to be the first to indict Trump. Rumored also is that Lindsay Graham is going to get indicted along with Trump.

    Both of J's articles are behind paywalls (none / 0) (#34)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 12:38:50 PM EST
    so I can't comment on them, but our kids did karate for a time when they were young (after a year or so other sports became more important). It was super fun for them, to the point that I looked into taking lessons too.

    Here is a youtube video of a MMA-style school for young kids.

    I'm going to assume the articles J linked to are much more violent than the above?

    the paper gives free links so my readers can view (none / 0) (#56)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 02:28:01 AM EST
    it. Guess that one doesn't work or maybe it didn't pick up the whole link. I;ll check next time before I hit post. Thaks for letting me know.

    So After the June 13 Hearing (none / 0) (#36)
    by RickyJim on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 02:13:08 PM EST
    Do we have the evidence yet that shows beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump knew he had lost but still tried to overturn the results?  Is "He had become detached from reality." a defense that might work in court?

    IMHO, the evidence shown today ... (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 09:54:28 PM EST
    ... by the House J6 Committee demonstrates conclusively that President Trump was told repeatedly by senior administration and campaign officials - which include son-in-law Jared Kushner, Atty. Gen. Bill Barr and campaign manager Bill Stepien - between the period of Nov. 7, 2020 to at least Dec. 19, 2020 that he had lost the election fair and square, and that there was no election fraud.

    The assumption in any prospective prosecution of Trump will be that he deliberately ignored and / or dismissed these advisers and instead latched onto the squalid, ingratiating and delusional likes of Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, Jenna Ellis and Michael Flynn, who were all too willing to tell Trump what he so desperately wanted to hear, rather than what he really needed to know.

    If indicted and charged, a decision by Trump to plead not guilty due to mental incapacity is, I believe, an affirmative defense. But on that issue, I must defer to the knowledge and experience of the criminal defense counsels we have around here, who can discuss it in far better detail than I ever could.



    Fine (none / 0) (#41)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 03:44:20 PM EST
    charge him and let him plead insanity.

    Yes, he could (none / 0) (#44)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 06:07:18 PM EST
    pled  delusional disorder insanity, win and Republican would still vote for him, giving him credit for a smart defense.

    Dana (none / 0) (#45)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 06:25:20 PM EST
    Bash on CNN pondering how and why anybody could vote for him again after what Barr and others said about him. George Conway points out that Barr already said he would, laughter ensues.

    The press (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 08:55:25 PM EST
    in this country is completely clueless when it comes to creeping fascism.

    It's (none / 0) (#61)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 08:25:19 AM EST
    more like they get it, then they forget it. They react the same way every time suprise > mild to moderate outrage > allow it to become normalized.

    The Vinnie the Chin defense? (none / 0) (#42)
    by desertswine on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 03:45:26 PM EST
    Yes (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 08:52:56 PM EST
    the evidence is there.

    However I personally expect an indictment from Fani Willis here in GA before anything happens in DC. Hopefully she finishes up on her desired timeline of ending with indictments at the end of July.


    I can't speak (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 08:54:22 PM EST
    for this case but my sister was seriously mentally ill, schizophrenic, and she could not make a mental illness claim here in GA for her writing bad checks.

    Not guilty by reason of (none / 0) (#87)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 06:26:19 PM EST
    insanity is not a psychiatric term.  Which is what psychiatrists as expert witnesses state before proceeding to testify either the criminal defendant is or is not NGI in their opinion. Amazing really.

    The second January 6 (none / 0) (#37)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 02:30:05 PM EST
    hearing brought credible testimony that Trump was repeatedly told the election was stolen and that each reporting of election fraud or irregularity was found to be without merit.  Similarly, cases brought to Court by Trump was dismissed or found to be without merit or a wrong interpretation of the Constitution or law.

    The Big Lie started even before Election Day and continues. Moreover, fund raising for election challenges was a big scam, or, the Big Ripoff, with non-existent funding groups and diversion of funds.

    Trump knew the election was not stolen or he was willfully blind to the facts made available to him.  Trump chose wacko conspiracies and the boozy advice of Rudy, according to his campaign advisor. Absurdities ruled his day.

    What is new is the clarity of facts supporting what even well-informed citizen knew or suspected.  For swing voters and those less well engaged, it should begin to register and match their own eye witnessing and suspicions.   For  the deplorable and TFG cultists---lefty socialists despoiling their god. After all, if you are a celebrity they should let you do it.

    Trump, is likely to declare his candidacy for president sooner than later, not so much because of DeSantis nipping at his heels, but for protection from Merrick Garland.  The careful to a fault AG will really be in a bind to indict a candidate,  someone may say--political!

    Well the careful to a fault AG (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 02:44:30 PM EST
    could indict Trump tomorrow and avoid indicating a candidate.

    Do I think he will do that? No. Trump IMO will remain above the law. I would love to be proven wrong. Oh, yay!


    Not (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 03:15:21 PM EST
    stolen.    Typo

    At this point, IMHO, ... (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 09:57:20 PM EST
    ... given the growing body of evidence that Trump and his merry band of schemers plotted a coup d'etat, it would constitute a political decision to NOT indict him.

    Can this guy really win in PA (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 07:28:47 PM EST
    I just can't believe he can.

    Doug Mastriano Hires Ex-Trump Legal Adviser
    June 13, 2022 at 5:30 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 77 Comments

    "Jenna Ellis, who was among the most high-profile attorneys involved in the Trump campaign's efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, has joined Pennsylvania Republican Doug Mastriano's gubernatorial campaign as a senior legal adviser," Reuters reports.

    In my state, maybe.

    I don't believe it either. Today's Phila (none / 0) (#47)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 08:44:11 PM EST
    Daily News has a column on Mastriano's education plank:  Cut state subsidies to school districts IN HALF (dropping Pennsylvania to 49th place, ahead only of Mississippi) and convert those grants to direct payments to parents to spend on public, private, parochial or HOME school as they wish. In other words, completely destroy the public education system. Presumably because it teaches civic values and critical thinking, both of which are anathema to the christofascists.

    4 is not a lot (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 07:31:32 AM EST

    Democrats Lead In Pennsylvania
    June 15, 2022 at 8:23 am EDT By Taegan Goddard Leave a Comment

    A new USA Today Network/Suffolk University poll in Pennsylvania finds John Fetterman (D) leading Mehmet Oz (R) by nine points in the U.S. Senate race.

    In the race for governor, Josh Shapiro (D) has a 4-point advantage over Doug Mastriano (R).

    Well based on (none / 0) (#59)
    by jmacWA on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 08:01:09 AM EST
    his past statements, we can be sure that Mastriano will claim the election was stolen if he looses.

    Being a PA resident it really kills me that the GOP could pick such an idiot for their candidate for Governor.  However, having been here for 9 years now, I am really fearful that the MAGAs of the state will carry the day and he will win.  

    If a contested election is somehow put into the state legislature there is little doubt that Mastriano would win.  ARGHHH


    The MAGAs can win in PA only ... (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 02:10:02 PM EST
    ... if enough Democrats fail to cast their ballots. Democratic voters clearly outnumber their Republican counterparts in registration. If Democratic turnout is high, as I suspect it will be given the stakes, you should be fine.

    Truth is (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 08:14:58 AM EST
    the failure of being able to imagine something is why we had president Trump.


    I'm not promoting the idea.  It was in the end a powerful weapon for Trump.  And maybe him.


    I don't know. (none / 0) (#65)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 12:34:55 PM EST
    Even some republicans don't like him. That said, I am starting to see Mastriano signs around here. I had to run over to Lancaster County Sunday morning. Saw a few signs driving over to US30.

    If elected, I will be relocating to Maryland (where I was born). I can take Hogan, but no way will I live in the new Gilead under this lunatic.

    I would REALLY like to move to New Mexico, but my wife doesn't want to move that far away from her daughter (in GA). My wife was born in Maryland as well.


    Yes, New Mexico! (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 01:16:53 PM EST
    We have a home in Southwest NM.  No more beautiful land imo.

    You may be thinking of the kitty corner other side of the state in Santa Fe, etc.

    The views are endless in NM.  Sunsets are amazing with purple skies and red and orange hues.

    And the skies at night are amazing.  Very little light pollution.  The Milky Way looks like a distant wispy cloud bank.  


    One f my best friends (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 01:39:09 PM EST
    And goal of a planned road trip just bought a farm north of ABQ (I think) and retired there.  it looks beautiful.  She has three mules and several other animals.

    The southwestern U.S. is beautiful. (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 02:25:05 PM EST
    We're flying to L.A. in a couple of weeks and then driving to Flagstaff, AZ with my aunt and my mother for my niece's wedding on July 2. It's gorgeous up there. After the nuptials, we're going to drive over to the Grand Canyon before returning to SoCal. It'll be a nice little road trip.

    New Mexico is also awesome. My favorite place is Carlsbad Caverns National Park. I remember being blown away by the place the first time we visited when I was 10 years old. But a return visit will have to wait for another time.



    The attraction for me (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 03:03:15 PM EST
    is the food. I love NM style Mexican food. Beat Tex-Mex hands down.

    Inquiring minds want to know (none / 0) (#75)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 03:28:20 PM EST
    What is the difference between NM style Mexican food and Tex-Mex?

    Cumin, IMO (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by jmacWA on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 03:46:06 PM EST
    Much TexMex thinks they can make anything Mexican if they add enough cumin.  I am not a cumin fan... a little is OK, but it's way to easy to over-do it.  For this reason I had a real hard time trying to find a salsa I liked until I found Herdez.  IMO the best salsa, and their Green guacamole salsa is phenomenal,

    My favorite thing about NM style was that every dinner was followed by their fantastic sopaipillas.


    Chile Verde. (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 04:22:18 PM EST
    Tex-Mex is all about chili powder, cumin and red peppers. NM has more flavor. More use of green chilis.

    Love a chicken burrito with green chili. Green chili in NM and Colorado is a green chili sauce. Not at all like what most people think of as chili (a bowl of red).


    Green Chile Fettuccine (none / 0) (#85)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 06:01:14 PM EST
    Wonderful variation on Fettuccine Alfredo.....

    Green Chiles are the key.....


    May have to (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Yman on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 04:51:35 PM EST
    give that a shot.  Never know what to do with the giant container of roasted hatch chilis from Costco, but that might do the trick.

    Gotta say (none / 0) (#89)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 07:41:27 PM EST
    I'm with ChuckO on this one!

    I prefer southwest NM. Or even NW (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 01:33:06 PM EST
    around Tucumcari. Not at all interested in ABQ and Santa Fe is too expensive. I am very interested in the Silver City area. It's a university town. Not too big, not too small. Decent climate too.

    We are 12 miles west (none / 0) (#117)
    by MKS on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 10:10:03 PM EST
    of Silver City.   My Dad's family is from there going back to the 1890s.

    Silver City has beautiful rolling hills with grassland and pine trees.   Interesting mix of cowboys, miners, old hippies and retirees from the East Coast. Grant County is very Democratic.  


    And that's before we consider Santa Fe Opera. (none / 0) (#88)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 06:29:07 PM EST
    I moved here in 1972 and have never regretted it. (none / 0) (#90)
    by desertswine on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 08:33:29 PM EST
    I just got back from Santa Fe (about an hour's drive) where I had tickets for an Antiques Roadshow that they were doing.  If standing around in the hot New Mexico sun for four hours plus with little or no shade is your idea of a good time, you're probably dehydrated and woozy.  Not enough appraisers, the line for the tribal arts alone was two and a half hours.  Suffice to say, it was not as much fun as I thought that it would be.  I'll give it only one star, if only because it was nice to talk to the other people who brought stuff.

    Those of us (none / 0) (#68)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 01:03:34 PM EST
    Who live in Maryland will welcome you back.

    It's not the same PA I grew up in (none / 0) (#82)
    by Yman on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 04:47:25 PM EST
    It's always been Philly and Pittsburgh with Kentucky in-between, but even more so at this point.  I think Mastriano can win.

    Confession or projection (none / 0) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 14, 2022 at 06:12:11 PM EST

    Doug Mastriano Sees Parallels with Hitler's Rise
    June 14, 2022 at 5:24 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 231 Comments

    Pennsylvania gubernatorial candidate Doug Mastriano (R), who was at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, compared the riot that day "to historical events staged by the Nazis, saying that he saw `parallels' between the criticism of the Jan. 6 attack and the 1933 Reichstag fire, which Hitler used to seize more power," NBC News reports

    I suppose it would (none / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Mon Jun 13, 2022 at 10:09:56 PM EST
    be better if the cage fighting parents instead paid homage to the inviolable, brought-down-from-Sinai nature of the 2nd Amendment by training the young lads one-and-all to stand up to government tyranny by wielding AR-15s.

    Start em early, the way our forefathers did with assault weapons back in the 1790s.

    Instead of cage fighters, we'll train little shock troops to bolster and honor the 2nd in order to forestall an all out assault on the 4th and on the very foundations of a rich and meaningful life here in America.

    Eternal vigilance and a healthy dose of childhood PTSD being the new price of freedom here in America.

    An Idle Thought (none / 0) (#105)
    by RickyJim on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 04:40:40 PM EST
    The candidates for President in 2024 will be Kamala Harris and Liz Cheney.  How did the Republican race look at this point in 2014?

    Maybe not the worst idea (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 07:15:07 PM EST

    CNN Chief Wants to Stop Use of `the Big Lie'
    June 15, 2022 at 5:36 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 186 Comments

    New CNN president Chris Licht discouraged staff from using "the big lie" to refer to former President Donald Trump's false claims about the 2020 election, Mediaite reports.

    He encouraged producers to instead use the terms "Trump election lie" or "election lies" instead.

    Soon (none / 0) (#112)
    by FlJoe on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 07:21:52 PM EST
    to become little white lies, I've seen this movie too many times.

    I can't say what his reasons are (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 09:15:19 PM EST
    but I think referring repeatedly to what Trump did as "The Big
    Lie" trivializes it.

    It's the most serious crime against this country in generations.  It should not be called the big lie.  It's a stupid thing I have always hated.


    I (none / 0) (#120)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 05:28:58 AM EST
    like it and I really don't see how it trivalises it any more any other adjective would.

    Calling it tRump's lies lets the rest of the Republicans off the hook calling it election lies makes it seem to be blameless.


    My thoughts (none / 0) (#129)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 09:12:38 AM EST
    are it's not the only big lie the GOP has told. The GOP is the party of the Big Lie. Trump's election lie is a big lie but then so is Bush's Iraq war lies.

    very (none / 0) (#111)
    by FlJoe on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 07:20:08 PM EST
    "The House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol has obtained email correspondence between Virginia "Ginni" Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, and lawyer John Eastman, who played a key role in efforts to pressure Vice President Mike Pence to block the certification of Joe Biden's victory, according to three people involved in the committee's investigation," the newspaper reported. "The emails show that Thomas's efforts to overturn the election were more extensive than previously known, two of the people said. The three declined to provide details and spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters."
    I suspect this is the reason for the delay.

    Eastman was a law clerk for Justice Thomas (none / 0) (#113)
    by Peter G on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 08:23:45 PM EST
    years ago. So he would know Ginni personally, and typically would have an ongoing and confidential relationship with the Justice, if like most ex-law clerks. I had that kind of relationship with the judge whom I clerked for, for decades after, and continue to be friendly (like distant family) with his widow and grown kids.

    WaPo (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 09:11:29 PM EST
    "The committee's members and staffers are now discussing whether to spend time during their public hearings exploring Ginni Thomas's role in the attempt to overturn the outcome of the 2020 election."



    It would not (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 15, 2022 at 10:04:10 PM EST
    be surprising if the Clarence/Ginni line is one Liz Cheney is reluctant to cross.  Hope not, but this would be a tough one for the Conservative Republican lawmaker.

    The leaking of Alito's draft for the overturning of Roe is, it seems, the "crime of the century".  The Chief Justice has sicced  the. U S Marshalls on-- well, just about every law graduate over the past 50 years so as to get to the bottom of this horror.  

    But, as to the role of Justice Thomas's wife, Ginni, in the overthrow of the government, his curious lone dissent in the case to turn over documents to the Jan 6 investigation, Thomas and Ginni's connection to Eastman,the architect of the unlawful  plot, and his refusal to announce future refusals in similar cases, get zero comment from the Court.  

    If Thomas checked into the hospital to duck scrutiny, that ploy will wear thin.  Thomas should resign if he has any respect for the Supreme Court.


    I (none / 0) (#131)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 10:22:47 AM EST
    was also thinking that, so far I beleive Cheney's price includes the rehab of Pence and other Republicans. Taking down Ginni(and by extension Clarence) might be.

    On the other hand Eastman is such a central figure it would be hard to leave any signifcant involvement by her.


    Pence (none / 0) (#132)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 11:05:29 AM EST
    can never be truly rehabbed. he has never renounced Trump who wanted him lynched. That will stick to him forever.

    Close (none / 0) (#133)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 11:35:57 AM EST
    enough for Republicans, lipstick pig and all that. Right now I am watching tapper and 2 Pence aides giving him a tongue bath.

    sure (none / 0) (#134)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 11:41:09 AM EST
    he is dead to the base, but  potential hero to team normal, which appears to be a growing club now that their ass is on the line.

    He is political (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 02:42:03 PM EST
    roadkill regardless of what people like Tapper do. He was creepy before Trump even put him on the ticket but he had the creepy evangelical voting base. However now he has no constituents. The never Trumpers wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole and the Trumpers loathe him for not breaking the law.

    Pence and his entire staff, ... (none / 0) (#137)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 17, 2022 at 02:50:31 PM EST
    ... despite the clearly abusive and threatening behavior they received from the Trump's troglodytes, chose to say nothing to anyone in authority and do nothing about it for an entire month prior to January 6, when such otherwise-timely notification possibly could've made a difference and headed off the resultant tragedy at the Capitol, in which nine people ultimately lost their lives.

    Let that sink in. They watched the Eastman plot unfold in real time - and they said and did NOTHING.

    Donald Trump sure had Team Normal's number. He called them wimps. And that's exactly what they were.



    If I were casting a movie (none / 0) (#123)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jun 16, 2022 at 07:36:00 AM EST
    that had an alcoholic, defrocked priest who preys on small children, I would contact Steve Bannon immediately. I can't think of one other person who would fit the role quite as well.

    Satire is getting more difficult (none / 0) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 17, 2022 at 03:50:14 PM EST

    Lauren Boebert Says Jesus Needed More AR-15 Rifles
    June 17, 2022 at 4:51 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard Leave a Comment

    Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO) joked at a Christian conference that Jesus Christ didn't have enough AR-15 assault rifles to "keep his government from killing him."

    The muckrakers (none / 0) (#145)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 18, 2022 at 07:21:31 PM EST
    who went after Cawthorne are now saying they are going after Boebert and they said that she used to be an escort and Ted Cruz gave her over 100K to run for congress. I guess we will see if they actually have anything or not.

    More to the point (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 18, 2022 at 07:27:41 PM EST
    does anyone care.

    An escort would be a step up from what she is.


    I (none / 0) (#147)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jun 18, 2022 at 08:33:00 PM EST
    am still trying to get over that whole Jesus and the AR-15 thing.

    What's next, the parable of hookers and blow?


    Well my (none / 0) (#148)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 19, 2022 at 03:15:39 PM EST
    thought is does she have any opposition in November? If she doesn't I guess they are hoping to shut her up since getting her out of office couldn't be a goal.

    Boebert is from Delta, Co. (none / 0) (#155)
    by fishcamp on Tue Jun 21, 2022 at 08:39:21 AM EST
    or somewhere near there.  Delta is a terrible small city in western Colorado.  They have drug and gang problems in the schools, and just about everybody has guns.  It is a great deer hunting area, but many of their guns tend to be the semi automatic type that are not designed for deer hunting.

    Well, Kerry Donovan (none / 0) (#156)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 21, 2022 at 08:59:57 AM EST
    the Democratic Colorado State Senate President was going to run against her--until she was redistricted out of her district.....

    Terrible result.


    I read (can't remember where) that these (none / 0) (#172)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 22, 2022 at 03:25:37 PM EST
    allegations are false.

    Maybe if we just say it very quietly .... (none / 0) (#149)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 20, 2022 at 07:43:56 AM EST

    Supreme Court Rushes to End Term Like No Other
    June 20, 2022 at 7:39 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 50 Comments

    CNN: "Under normal circumstances on decision days at the end of June, the Supreme Court emerges from behind crimson curtains to finally issue the most controversial cases of the term after months of closed-door deliberations. Wearing their judicial robe and exhausted from the final push of work, the justices take their seats and the majority opinion is read by its author."

    "None of that is expected to happen this month."

    "With no pomp and circumstance, an official will push a button and opinions changing the contours of some of the most divisive social issues of the day including abortion, gun rights, religious liberty and the environment -- will simply be released via the internet."

    The gist of this is probably right (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 20, 2022 at 10:22:48 AM EST
    but the traditional public announcements have not included the author of the majority opinion actually reading the opinion out loud. Such opinions are typically between 12 and 40 printed pages in length. What they read is a carefully written one- or two-paragraph summary of the opinion. And only when they wish to do so, to emphasize the importance of the issue, will the author of the dissent then also read a summary of their opinion.

    Umbrella Academy season 3 (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 20, 2022 at 12:48:31 PM EST
    drops on Wednesday.  I've been watching the first 2 seasons.

    I forgot how great it is.

    As a friend.... (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 20, 2022 at 04:09:52 PM EST
    ...stop saying you are "nearing decisions" on stuff.

    Seriously.  Just stop.

    Biden says he's nearing decisions on gas tax holiday and student loans as he tries to tame costs

    I don't know (none / 0) (#153)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 20, 2022 at 06:24:53 PM EST
    if he has always been this bad at messaging or if he just was around Obama too much and absorbed his bad messaging habits. Either way it needs to change.

    I have had (none / 0) (#154)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 20, 2022 at 07:00:17 PM EST
    a 35% increase in my insurance premiums, auto insurance. So I called my insurance company to find out why and they said Georgia has been doing huge rate hikes. For someone who is supposedly so worried about inflation Kemp's actions don't follow. FL Joe and Fish, get ready. My insurance company told me Florida is putting through huge rate hikes.

    Any explanation of what justifies (none / 0) (#157)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 21, 2022 at 10:00:12 AM EST
    the hikes?

    He has a point (none / 0) (#158)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 21, 2022 at 06:49:03 PM EST
    an idiotic one but a point

    In an old interview, Herschel Walker explains why he didn't think his Multiple Personality Disorder is a mental illness: "Do our Lord Jesus Christ have a mental illness because he said he's the father, the son and the Holy Spirit? To me, those are 3 different personalities."

    I admit I am no expert on Christian theology (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 21, 2022 at 10:50:34 PM EST
    but isn't "Our Lord, Jesus Christ" the son, not the entire Trinity? Did he ("He") ever claim otherwise?

    No (none / 0) (#164)
    by FlJoe on Wed Jun 22, 2022 at 05:47:22 AM EST
    expert here either, but I always thought it was a theological contrivance by the early church to allow Christ to be worshipped under the "only one God rule".

    Yes, apparently, (none / 0) (#165)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 22, 2022 at 11:28:59 AM EST
    after some complicated discussions, over many years, in the process of making of a religion, Trinity was settled at the First Council of Nicaea in 325AD.  This agreement reconciled the belief in One God with Jesus as Christ or Messiah, and experiences of the Spirit.  

    God, united in essence, but distinct in three persons: God the Father,  the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit.  Sort of like water, it comes in ice, liquid and steam.


    They should not have dropped (none / 0) (#166)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 22, 2022 at 02:00:06 PM EST
    The Book of Enoch.  It rocks.

    Same meeting, right?


    Yes, same meeting. (none / 0) (#167)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 22, 2022 at 02:13:23 PM EST
    Book of Enoch was too scary and origins/authenticity were a subject of dispute.  And, Constantine, who convened the Council, wanted unity in the realm.  So, the bishops had to get their acts together and do some serious editing.

    I obviously love the stuff about (none / 0) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 22, 2022 at 02:32:47 PM EST
    Watchers and the Nephilim.  He's got all the stuff on my new favirite Azazel.  But Enoch was one of two, Elijah being the other, who got to go to heaven without dying.

    It has long been a favorite of the Ancient Aliens crowd because the account is a perfect description of an alien abduction.

    Plus he was the great grandfather of Noah.  Whos father was Methuselah, right.  So, old school.


    Lamech (none / 0) (#169)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 22, 2022 at 02:37:41 PM EST
    My bad, Methuselah was his grandfather

    I think (none / 0) (#170)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 22, 2022 at 03:08:01 PM EST
    the idea of Azazel is among reasons that the Book of Enoch got in trouble----only one named demon allowed, could it be Satan?  And, demons may not be for eternity.    

    Yes! (none / 0) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 22, 2022 at 03:22:33 PM EST
    I have read a lot of stuff on the subject and there are several different ideas of exactly who or what Azazel is.

    In some versions they go as far as saying Azazel is the name of a cliff the scape goat jumps off.  In IMO a clear effort to make Azazel NOT an entity. In spite of that troublesome verse in Leviticus that clearly says the goat should be sent off to Azazel.

    Another says it's another name for the scale goat itself.

    Fascinating stuff.

    here is a sampling of various translations  of that verse
     As you can see that are all over the map


    Scapegoat (none / 0) (#174)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 22, 2022 at 03:56:58 PM EST
    or just an escaped goat?

    Most rabbis (fearing contamination from polytheism) interpreted "Azazel" as the rugged mountain cliff from which the scapegoat was cast down on Yom Kippur, but some (such as Nachmanides) argued that Azazel belongs to the class of "se'irim," goat-like demons haunting the desert, to which the Israelites were wont to offer sacrifice. Both views have been variously endorsed and debated in Jewish tradition. Viewed as a demon of the desert, Azazel seems to have been closely interwoven with the Book of Enoch as the seducer of men and women, and leader of the rebellious hosts

    Actually, not every branch of (none / 0) (#173)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 22, 2022 at 03:28:13 PM EST
    Christianity accepts the doctrine of the Trinity.

    It does start to look like an asset (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 21, 2022 at 08:32:52 PM EST
    when you consider how many senators have no personality.  At all.

    Makes you proud! (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 21, 2022 at 07:05:26 PM EST
    Happy Solstice! (none / 0) (#162)
    by desertswine on Tue Jun 21, 2022 at 11:15:41 PM EST
    It's gonna be a hot summer.

    Excerpt from Stormy Weather

    Thanks for posting that! (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by leap2 on Wed Jun 22, 2022 at 12:38:27 AM EST
    What fun. The Nicholas Bros always make me smile, and then wince. I  wonder how long their hips lasted....

    Elliot Page (none / 0) (#175)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 23, 2022 at 07:25:21 AM EST
    Is the actor formerly known as Ellen Page.  

    I'm so behind the times.  I only found out about this when the new season of Umbrella Academy dropped.

    I am 1000% supportive of his choices but it's odd, I really liked Ellen.  I will miss her a little.

    Hot car murder conviction overturned for (none / 0) (#176)
    by McBain on Thu Jun 23, 2022 at 08:58:24 AM EST
    Justin Ross Harris.
    The Georgia Supreme Court on Wednesday overturned the murder conviction of a Georgia father sentenced to life in prison after he left his 22-month-old son in a hot car, a stunning turn of events in a case that made international headlines.

    Chief Justice David Nahmias wrote in an opinion that an "extensive amount of improperly admitted evidence" presented during Justin Ross Harris' 2016 trial affected the jury's guilty verdict. Some of the evidence included graphic images and details about Harris' extramarital affairs.

    Harris was also convicted of exchanging lewd text messages with an underage girl.  That conviction stands.

    This appeared to be a character assassination trial.  Make the jury hate him as a person so he'll be easier to convict.  Hopefully, this will be one of many recent high profile trials that will be overturned.  

    Holy chit (none / 0) (#177)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jun 23, 2022 at 09:48:27 AM EST
    Harris was convicted of malice murder and other charges in the June 18, 2014, death of his toddler son, Cooper, who was left in Harris' Hyundai Tucson for seven hours in sweltering heat while Harris was at work.

    Yeah, I got your stare decisis - right here! (none / 0) (#178)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 23, 2022 at 09:51:50 PM EST
    I don't know which I find more infuriating, SCOTUS's decision today to blow off another 100+ years of precedent in New York State Rifle & Pistol Assn. vs. Bruen, or Justice Clarence Thomas's tone-deaf decision to cite Roger Taney's infamous 1857 Dred Scott opinion as part of his legal rationale for doing away with a 109-year-old New York statute regulating conceal / carry permits:

    "A short prologue is in order. Even before the Civil War commenced in 1861, the Supreme court indirectly affirmed the right to keep and bear arms in public. Writing for the Court in Dred Scott v. Sandford 19 How. 393 (1857), Chief Justice Taney offered what he thought was a parade of horribles that would result from recognizing the free blacks were citizens of the United States. If blacks were citizens, Taney fretted, they would be entitled to the privileges and immunities of citizens, including the right to 'keep and bear arms wherever they went.' Id., at 417 (emphasis added.) Thus, even Chief Justice Taney recognized (albeit unenthusiastically in the case of blacks) that public carry was a component of the right to keep and bear arms - a right free blacks were often denied in antebellum America."

    (Hawaii's conceal / carry firearms law, which was even stricter than New York's, was likewise struck down by today's ruling.)

    And yet, the media wonders aloud why public confidence in the U.S. Supreme Court has sunk to its lowest level in over 50 years at 25%.


    The (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 09:13:47 AM EST
    supremes have spoken, life begins at conception and ends with a bullet, American exceptionalism!

    Today's abortion rights decision (5.00 / 4) (#180)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 10:37:02 AM EST
    will do down in infamy as one of the worst and most disreputable Supreme Court decisions of all time. Along with Dred Scott, Bradwell, Korematsu, and Bowers v Hardwick, etc.

    One Republican (5.00 / 3) (#183)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 11:55:37 AM EST
    coup failed, the other didn't.  

    I really think there are lots of women (none / 0) (#187)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 01:17:14 PM EST
    who may be republicans or casual Trump supporters that really do not understand how, and how quickly, this is going to directly effect their lives.

    Think of the Bright Side :-) (none / 0) (#181)
    by RickyJim on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 10:48:08 AM EST
    1. With at least 60% of the population against a national ban on abortion, it will never get through the House or survive a Senate filibuster by Democrats.

    2. The idea of a spanking, brand new US Constitution, up to 21st century international standards, might get some serious support among the non-lunatic fringe.  

    There is absolutely NO (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 12:09:26 PM EST
    bright side---unless you own coat hanger stock. And, you are a mortician.

    I might not call it a (5.00 / 2) (#185)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 12:44:36 PM EST
    "bright side" but I think this decision particularly when you add Clarences whacko concurrence has completely upended any presumptions about the fall election and who is going to show up to vote.

    Adding this to the J6 effect is going to matter.  I think.


    Interesting (none / 0) (#186)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 12:55:15 PM EST
    Clarence did not mention Loving v VA

    Well, I have (5.00 / 3) (#189)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 02:06:36 PM EST
    a feeling that the Inspector Clouseau investigation of the "leaker" will soon go the way of those caravans of immigrants from Central America descending on our border just before the 2020:election.

    Ginni is already in enough hot water, and if she is the leaker, as I have long maintained, the Court can't afford any more  shadows on its already shamefully dark opinion.   But, if the intent of the leak was to lock in any wavering fascist justices, it worked.  Chief Justice Roberts would have, sort of, kept Roe, with the 15-week ban of Dobbs(the actual case before them to decide) saying that amount of time was enough to make a decision, but no further.

    Roberts, the moderate maneuver, still concurred and voted  with the majority.  So, it does not really count. But, a nice try.

    Clarence, as with Republicans, will keep Loving safe since it directly affects him and Best Friend.  The only hope for Alito's saving Obergefell would be if all his kids came out. And, then it would be a roll of the dice.


    Loving is premised primarily on (none / 0) (#195)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 02:52:11 PM EST
    Equal Protection and racial anti-discrimination. Less so on the fundamental right to marry. And the right to marry, as an aspect of "privacy" (in the sense of autonomy) has a heck of a better grounding in "history-and-tradition" than Lawrence (the invalidation of sodomy laws). Frankly, that's the only one of this line of decisions that is essentially indefensible under the "reasoning" of Dobbs, as best I can figure.

    FWIW, in Kavanaugh's concurring opinion (none / 0) (#197)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 04:17:21 PM EST
    he writes, "the parties' arguments have raised other related questions, and I address some of them here. First is the question of how this decision will affect other precedents involving issues such as contraception and marriage -- in particular, the decisions in Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U. S. 479 (1965); Eisenstadt v. Baird, 405 U. S. 438 (1972); Loving v. Virginia, 388 U. S. 1 (1967); and Obergefell v. Hodges, 576 U. S. 644 (2015). I emphasize what the Court today states: Overruling Roe does not mean the overruling of those precedents, and does not threaten or cast doubt on those precedents." I note that he does not mention Lawrence v Texas. Dunno whether to make much of either what he says or what he omits, or not.

    Yes, curious. (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 05:00:17 PM EST
    Griswold and Eisenstadt kinda run together (contraceptives for married and unmarried couples), and Obergefell derives from Lawrence (as Scalia warned and was horrified by-- that Lawrence will clear the way for same sex marriage).

     Of course, the explicit mention of Loving was understandable, doing for Thomas what he, in a rare moment of ethical self-awareeness, did not want to do for himself.)

    The dissent does point out the risk to contraception, same sex intimacy, and same sex marriage, so Kavanaugh may have been attempting to address that.

     The way Thomas put his threat seems odd to me, saying that yes, overturning Roe did  not mean these other precedents are in jeopardy, therefore, they should be re-considered.

     But we sure know where he is going, and has, in effect, solicited some good cases.  All the more reason, I have long been in favor of removing the "cert" part of the Supreme Court's responsibilities. Congress should formulate a new procedure for acceptance of cases to be heard.


    This is now the law (none / 0) (#193)
    by MO Blue on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 02:27:40 PM EST
    in Louisiana.

    "Louisiana Governor John Bel Edwards signed a bill that would make abortion providers subject to prison terms of up to 10 years and fines up to $100,000. NBC News' Chloe Atkins reports how this law would take effect if Roe v. Wade were overturned."


    The citing of (5.00 / 2) (#182)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 11:45:24 AM EST
    Dred Scott was, in my view, more trolling than obtuse insensitivity. Clarence Thomas' bizarro opinion that NY state's concealed carry statute, enacted during the Taft Administration, was not part of the American tradition of regulating firearms,  almost seems  sane when Alito is taken into account.  (Almost, emphasized)

    Alito, in ridiculing the dissent's citing of CDC statistics, attempts to be clever in pointing out that the recent mass shooting of elderly Black women in a Buffalo grocery store was not prevented by New York's law.. so see, libs!    Gee, Sam, you got us on that one.  The shooter in Buffalo used an AR-15, so that 100-year old statute about hand guns would not have prevented the slaughter of those shoppers.


    Troubled (none / 0) (#196)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 03:50:54 PM EST
    Senator Susan Collins, fresh off the chalkgate scandal, feels let down since she was assured by Kavanaugh that Roe was safe, being a long-time precedent that could be relied upon.

    Senator Manchin,, also believed  both Gorsuch and Kavanaugh,  when they told him Roe was settled law.

    And, in fairness, how were they ever to know?  

    Maybe Manchin will repent and work with Sinema to unpack the Court.

    How were they to know? (none / 0) (#201)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 04:32:38 PM EST
    Listen to Roberts's Mom.

    Peter (none / 0) (#203)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 05:05:18 PM EST
    You mention twice what Kavanaugh "said".

    FTR He also said at least a couple of time he woukd not repeal Roe.  When it was convenient for him to say that.

    As it is now convenient for him to say what you mention.

    After all.  Susan Collins needs a talking point.

    Personally (none / 0) (#204)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 05:15:33 PM EST
    I think if you believe for a second those "rights not mentioned in the constitution"
     (that all just happen to be icky rights they hate - unlike the right to be armed in public)
    are not now squarely in the crosshairs of the Gini Thomas wing of the party

    you have not been paying attention.  

    Whatever else (none / 0) (#205)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 05:37:21 PM EST
    he has good political instincts

    Trump Would Rather Limit Than Ban Abortion
    June 24, 2022 at 6:38 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard Leave a Comment

    Washington Post: "Trump has largely stayed away from the looming Roe decision in recent weeks, only decrying the leak of a draft opinion in the case from the Supreme Court and avoiding opportunities to talk about it publicly."

    "He has complained privately that the overturning of Roe could hurt Republicans politically in independent and suburban districts, two advisers said, and has told allies they should emphasize that states can set their own laws. Trump has also told some of his advisers he thinks a better position would be to limit but not ban abortion."

    Said one adviser: "He is convinced it won't help him in the future."

    What Kavanaugh said (none / 0) (#206)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 06:02:22 PM EST
    Please provide a link, if you can, to anywhere that Kavanaugh said he would not vote to overturn Roe. I do not believe he or Gorsuch or Barrett ever said that. They mouthed carefully-memorized weasel-worded promises to "respect precedent." But precedent, even when respected, can be overturned. We all realize that and sometimes celebrate it. (Brown overruled Plessy; Lawrence overruled Bowers; etc.)

    And your point is (none / 0) (#207)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 06:21:48 PM EST
    he is not now using weasel words?

    What he wrote may be untrue, and he (none / 0) (#208)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 06:36:12 PM EST
    may not believe it, but it is not weasel-worded, no.

    Sorry, I neglected to answer your direct (none / 0) (#209)
    by Peter G on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 06:42:38 PM EST
    question:  My point was that I believe the particular claim you made, that Kavanaugh committed perjury on this point during his confirmation hearing, was mistaken. I believe he committed perjury on other points -- what he did and remembered in connection with Dr. Blasey Ford, for instance, and the extent of his current drinking habits -- but the Roe question, like all the other R appointees, he succeeded in evading not lying about. I honestly thought, by the way (and obviously, sadly, I was wrong), that Kavanaugh was weak enough, and respected his mentor Kennedy's legacy enough, that he would join Roberts' separate concurrence and deprive Alito of his majority.

    I'm (none / 0) (#210)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 06:42:38 PM EST
    so relieved.

    FTR (none / 0) (#211)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2022 at 06:49:54 PM EST
    I didn't say perjury.  I said, unartfully, that hesaid he-

    woukd not repeal Roe

    By which I meant to say he certainly left that impression.  So far today both Collins and Manchin have mentioned this.  So it's not just me I think.
    I'm sure your are correct about the legalese.