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Impeachment the Second Time Around

Does practice make perfect? Here is the Impeachment Resoulution now circulating in the House of Representatives.

The charge (Article I): Incitement of Insurrection. The alleged misconduct: Willfully inciting violence against the Government of the United States.

"Willfully" is the required state of mind. (Every crime except strict liability crimes like not wearing a seat belt have two components -- an Actus Reus (act) and a required Mens Rea (Mental State).

"Willfully" is a higher standard than "knowingly". It requires proof the person acted voluntarily and purposely, with the specific intent to do something the law forbids (here, to incite violence). It also includes voluntarily and intentionally assisting or advising another to do something the person knows disobeys or disregards the law.

It is not a defense to acting "willfully" that a person may have believed that his conduct was politically or morally required, or that he believed ultimate good would result from his acts.

So, did Trump intentionally violate a known legal duty? In my view: he intentionally violated dozens if not hundreds of them over the past four years. [More...]

That said, I do not want him removed from office before January 20. Why? Because if he is, Pence will likely pardon him, just like Ford pardoned Nixon. We must not let Pence become President before Biden takes office.

< PGA Pulls Championship From Trump Golf Course | House Votes on Impeachment of "World's Most Dangerous Man" >
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  • Display: Sort:
    In a typically subtle move (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 09:39:08 AM EST
    Trump is going to Alamo, TX tomorrow for an "event".  Not THE Alamo, a town called Alamo.  Much like Four Seasons Total Landscaping.  

    Very curious what he does and how the media covers it.  I do not agree with those who say there should be a media blackout.

    Cover it live and in full.  After days of being muzzled like a rabid dog he is going to have a lot to say.

    I say, let him say it.

    Trump's farewell tour includes border wall stop in Alamo, Texas, on Tuesday



    Giuliani is Already There... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 05:35:25 PM EST
    Maybe a drug cartel (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 06:06:41 PM EST
    will come swooping in from Mexico and kidnap the whole bunch and ask for ransom.

    Nah, we're good.  Keep um.

    Parent

    It looks like he's at (none / 0) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 06:08:41 PM EST
    the Alamo rent a car at the airport.

    Parent
    Wait a second (none / 0) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 06:11:08 PM EST
    He IS at Alamo rent a car.

    Those clever photoshoppers

    Parent

    Hold the presses! Tr*mp spoke the truth (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Peter G on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 02:21:28 PM EST
    On his way to the Wall visit, he said:
    "This impeachment is causing tremendous anger, and you're doing it and it's really a terrible thing that they're doing. For Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Shumer to continue on this path, I think it's causing tremendous danger to our country and it's causing tremendous anger."
    It is apparent that this is true. The move to impeach him again is no "danger to the country," but yes, it is "causing tremendous anger" in him.

    Parent
    He's Clearly Not Right... (none / 0) (#81)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:03:28 PM EST
    ...it's sad to see him try and pretend nothing bad happened last week and that his legacy will live on forever.  But like your comment, it's true, just not in the way he would like it to be true.

    Parent
    Do you think he knows (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 02:08:26 PM EST
    everyone at the Alamo died?  I can see aids "shh, let's not tell him"

    Parent
    And don't tell him (none / 0) (#19)
    by jondee on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 03:14:11 PM EST
    that the Alamo isn't in Alamo, Texas.

    Seriously, the site was probably because 99.9% of the 57 people in Alamo voted for him.

    Parent

    Oh, man (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 11:37:09 AM EST
    I'm still more impressed (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 11:17:09 AM EST
    but trust me, there is self interest here.

    Cotton Halted Landslide of GOP Objections In Senate

    January 11, 2021 at 12:11 pm EST By Taegan Goddard Leave a Comment

    "Senior Republicans are crediting Arkansas Sen. Tom Cotton's surprise break with President Trump for preventing a flood of his GOP colleagues from objecting to the certification of President-elect Joe Biden's Electoral College victory," the Washington Examiner reports.

    The one smart enough to understand a bunch of his 2024 rivals were about to set themselves on fire take the advantage.
    Smart and dangerous.

    link

    Here's the thing (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 03:16:28 PM EST
    How is going to look for those Republicans that do not vote to impeach when Trump is criminally charged by the legal system? IMO they are going to look like a bunch of fools.

    Parent
    If he's impeached (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 07:17:08 PM EST
    hopefully we can not do this

    President Trump would almost certainly have Secret Service agents charged with protecting him even if he winds up in prison, former agency officials told Business Insider.

    link

    You know, I still think that Trump ... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 02:57:56 AM EST
    ... will flee the country -- to Russia perhaps, or maybe Saudi Arabia or the U.A.E. It's doesn't matter. He's almost certainly facing multi-count felony indictments on any number of state and federal charges in places like New York, Georgia and D.C. And he really doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who's going to wait around to get arrested. No, he's the type who'd even abandon his family and leave them all holding the bag, if need be.

    What say you, Jeralyn? Do you think Trump is a flight risk, or am I just Trump-drunk?

    ;-D

    Will he (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 08:38:27 AM EST
    Take the kids on his road trip?

    Parent
    I've been saying for a long time (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 09:10:00 AM EST
    he could flee.  They, Trump and Pence, just released another statement saying he would never resign.  He's being told by everyone if he self pardons he's f'cked.

    Brazil is lovely this time of year, for people with lots of money.  No extradition treaty, that was just discussed in tv.  Bolsonaro is a soul mate who would certainly take him in.  For a price.

    In the end this could be IMO the best outcome. Exiled, humiliated, exposed for the criminal fugitive he is.  Utterly discredited forever.  

    Plus we could probably pay Jair to pop a cap in his pompadour.

    Parent

    Come On... (none / 0) (#33)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 09:40:55 AM EST
    ...Trump just spent four years showing Hispanics how much he hates them.  He's not fleeing for no other reason then he can't stand foreigners.  I can just see him freaking out because the Big Mac in Dubai tastes like GD goat meat.

    He's never been held accountable for anything and he sure as hell isn't gonna to start now.  Tax trouble, please, that's at least 5 year before any sort of resolution.  He's got years, maybe he flees when prison is the alternative, but that seems very unlikely considering he's weaseled his way out of responsibility for 50 years.  

    His wealth allows him to pretty much do what he wants and even if it comes down to a trial, how in the hell are they going to make sure a trial of his peers doesn't have one of devotees seated.

    A conviction, either in the Senate or in Federal/State court is a fantasy.  Not saying it's not possible, but if you got money bet on Trump.  

    That being said, I think I would fall over with pure joy if I were to see Trump on the TV getting a perp walk.  Second best would be knowing that he has fled the country to never return guaranteeing no lineage could ever run for political office with a wanted patriarch.

    Parent

    I really don't think so (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 10:05:01 AM EST
    I think it will be different this time even tho your assessment justice for the rich is correct.

    There is a literal starting gate of prosecutors on their mark for the 20th.

     I think it's likely he could by hook or crook avoid federal charges.  He will not, I will take bets, avoid state charges.  And I'm not sure that's terrible.  Any federal prosecution is going to be portrayed as political.  For that matter so will state prosecutions.  But personally I think it's better he be taken down by the states, as a person for civilian crimes and as head of a personality cult, than as a politician and former president for political crimes.

    State prisons are less fun than federal prisons in general anyway.

    I was just reading something about the arguments being made to him about his legal problems and how self pardoning is a very very bad idea.  The guy reportedly said "think OJ." (no kidding, OJ) In reference to the riot.  "You might beat the criminal charges and get killed by civil charges."

    Parent

    ....think, OJ (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 10:15:36 AM EST
    Sued by whom? It's not like OJ at all. (none / 0) (#41)
    by Peter G on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 11:04:56 AM EST
    OJ was sued for wrongful death by the estate of someone who alleged he killed her with his own hands.  The causation in a civil suit against Tr*mp is too attenuated for the families of those who died, who are the ones most likely to consider suing. Nor do I see actionable causation for any other individual who was personally injured. The Civil Division of US DoJ, even under Biden, is certainly not going to try to sue him for the property damage at the Capitol.

    Parent
    I'm sure you are right (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 11:09:12 AM EST
    I have no idea.   Obviously.

    I was really just amused by an advisor to Trump saying "...think, OJ"

    Parent

    Aren't Government Officials... (none / 0) (#44)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 11:30:52 AM EST
    ...protected from personal civil suits ?

    Qualified Immunity

    In the United States, qualified immunity is a legal principle that grants government officials performing discretionary functions immunity from civil suits unless the plaintiff shows that the official violated "clearly established statutory or constitutional rights of which a reasonable person would have known". It is a form of sovereign immunity less strict than absolute immunity that is intended to protect officials who "make reasonable but mistaken judgments about open legal questions", extending to "all [officials] but the plainly incompetent or those who knowingly violate the law". Qualified immunity applies only to government officials in civil litigation, and does not protect the government itself from suits arising from officials' actions.

    The U.S. Supreme Court first introduced the qualified immunity doctrine in Pierson v. Ray (1967), enacted during the height of the civil rights movement, it is stated to have been originally enacted with the rationale of protecting law enforcement officials from frivolous lawsuits and financial liability in cases where they acted in good faith in unclear legal situations. Starting around 2005, courts increasingly applied the doctrine to cases involving the use of excessive or deadly force by police, leading to widespread criticism that it, as summarized in a 2020 Reuters report, "has become a nearly failsafe tool to let police brutality go unpunished and deny victims their constitutional rights".

    They could argue Trump is "plainly incompetent", which isn't covered.  You only a majority.  I would think the lawsuits would come from the family of the dead cop or from anyone who was injured.  People will get sued, the question is will they go after the Trumps or Giuliani.  Giuliani's 'Trial by Combat' comment seems like the one that was way over the top and clearly promoted violence.

    Parent

    Fleeing (none / 0) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 10:28:36 AM EST
    is what all fascists who don't end up dead or in jail do. So yeah, if Trump escapes jail or death I'm sure he will end up in a foreign country. Nazis seemed to like Brazil.

    Parent
    The price of a Medal of Freedom (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 11:33:36 AM EST
    Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) is calling on House Republican Conference Chair Liz Cheney (R-WY) to be removed from leadership for announcing her plans to vote to impeach President Trump for inciting last week's riot at the Capitol, The Hill reports.



    Gym Jordon is on (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 11:37:06 AM EST
    FI - ya!

    Parent
    What in the F... (none / 0) (#116)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 11:42:57 AM EST
    ...do the Wright Brothers and Neil Armstrong have to do with impeaching Donal Trump?  

    That guy is an idiot, if I am understanding his argument, it's we shouldn't impeach Trump because he only has a week left.

    Parent

    Matt Gaetz (none / 0) (#119)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 12:20:48 PM EST
    is worse. He is one lying POS.

    Parent
    Voltaire--- (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by desertswine on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 02:07:20 PM EST
    "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: Oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it."

    Parent
    I really want it to end (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 02:12:53 PM EST
    because I can't stop watching it.

    Parent
    Ridiculous (none / 0) (#130)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 03:29:47 PM EST
    even in dress.   Rep. Jeff Van Drew's attire looked like it was borrowed from the Joker's wardrobe. And, Gaetz...hairdo.

    Parent
    What is Kevin doing? (none / 0) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 12:27:38 PM EST
    Wowee (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 12:29:31 PM EST
    He doing it.  

    Parent
    He doing it (none / 0) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 12:30:35 PM EST
    with a condom.

    Parent
    Scattered applause (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 12:35:23 PM EST
    probably from democrats

    Parent
    Doing what? (none / 0) (#127)
    by Peter G on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 03:04:45 PM EST
    Not everyone can take the day off to watch.

    Parent
    I Was Half Way Watching (none / 0) (#128)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 03:20:35 PM EST
    McCarthy calls for censure but not impeachment.  He did go after Trump pretty hard, should make the highlight reels for the nightly news.

    Parent
    He took a shower (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 03:28:11 PM EST
    In a raincoat

    He said mumble mumble Biden won the election.  Mumble mumble the man baby was very bad and he is responsible for the riot.  But I'm too limp to vote to impeach him.  Please don't give Liz my job.

    Or something like that.

    Parent

    One perk from the pandemic. (none / 0) (#133)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 04:06:56 PM EST
    Working from home. I get to have the news on all day. I was astonished watching the taking of the Capitol in real time.

    Parent
    Gaetz.. (none / 0) (#134)
    by jondee on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 06:02:33 PM EST
    I usually don't like 'going there' but in Gaetz's case I'll make an exception..

    By going there I mean asking what's the deal with Matt's handsome and very adult "adopted son" when a couple of years ago Gaetz was telling everyone he had no family?

    I mean, what would Paula White say?

    Parent

    Pride goeth before the fall (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 11:35:50 AM EST
    Trump supporter nabbed by FBI after Facebook boast about breaking down Pelosi's office door

    CBS 7 interviewed Cudd prior to her arrest and she expressed pride in her actions and said she'd do it again.

    Cudd is just one of the many insurgents who are more than willing to incriminate themselves and provide evidence for their conviction.


    True (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 11:44:10 AM EST
    They could also hope to persuade Nixon not to put the nation -- and the party -- through more torment, especially with midterm elections coming."

    "It's unlikely that Republican leaders in Congress now believe that Trump cares about either the nation or the party."

    link

    Parent

    This (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 07:07:40 AM EST
    We must not let Pence become President before Biden takes office.

    As unlikely as it seems that Trump would ever resign I think the very fact that we would hate it makes it more likely.

    I think one wild card is, would Pence do it.  They said yesterday Trump and Pence has not spoken once since Wed.

    I think Pence would do it.  Out of pure craven ambition.

    Pence (none / 0) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 10:57:44 AM EST
    can pull out the pardon pen anytime with or without impeachment. Might be why Mitch is holding off a vote until the 19th.

    Parent
    how can Pence (none / 0) (#11)
    by leap on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 11:22:50 AM EST
    pardon a still-sitting president (ugh, I hate writing that)? He doesn't pardon  power until he's top-dog, correct?

    Parent
    Correct (none / 0) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 03:10:59 PM EST
    you are right. I am wrong. Not sure what i was thinking.

    Parent
    Talk radio (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 07:35:23 AM EST
    "After months of stoking anger about alleged election fraud, one of America's largest talk-radio companies has decided on an abrupt change of direction," the Washington Post reports.

    "Cumulus Media, which employs some of the most popular right-leaning talk-radio hosts in the United States, has told its on-air personalities to stop suggesting that the election was stolen from President Trump -- or else face termination."



    Cumulus Media killed off one of my ... (none / 0) (#105)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 03:46:31 AM EST
    ... favorite rock'n'roll radio stations, KFOG-FM in San Francisco, and replaced it with an all-sportstalk network. If there's one thing I find even more annoying than right-wing radio squawk, it's sports radio punditry.

    Cumulus Media is evil.

    Parent

    Really ? (none / 0) (#109)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 08:34:32 AM EST
    I love sports radio, especially last year living in Houston with the Bill O'Brien era and when Hopkins got traded.  It was CraZy entertaining.  Even now I am in Missouri, I tune in to I Heart for the Houston sports radio.  And although Dallas is 250 miles away, they get Cowboy fans on and they never cease to entertain.

    I guess maybe if you live in a town were owners, GM's, and coaches make good decisions it would get on your nerves, but in a city where all they do is make bad decisions, it pretty entertaining.  Right now, the Jack Easterby saga and trying to figure out how a guy whose greatest accomplishment is Inspiration Coach for the Patriots is basically running the Houston Texans, especially after the SI article.

    Parent

    I like sports as much as anyone. (none / 0) (#135)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 01:21:49 AM EST
    But personally speaking, I find 90 percent of sports punditry to be pretentious piffle.

    Now, don't get me wrong, there have been some tremendous sports columnists and writers over the years such as the late Frank Deford, Grantland Rice and Heywood Hale Broun ("Sports do not build character; they reveal it"). They were journalists who could turn an eloquent phrase with the very best of them, who through the lens of sport would often reveal to their readers a sometimes harsh truth about the human condition.

    But for every Jim Murray or Chris Dufresne at the L.A. Times, there have been eight Bill Plaschkes, egotistical hack writers whose incredibly childish partisanship would shame a Little League All-Star team, and who more often than not debase the very teams and sports they ostensibly love.

    During the 2013 college football season, Plaschke used his near-daily column to wage a relentless campaign against then-interim USC football coach Ed Orgeron, viciously ridiculing his thick Cajun brogue, etc., to imply that crackers like him simply didn't belong in L.A., especially at a high-brow school like USC.

    Many subsequently credited Plaschke with having effectively torpedoed Orgeron's chances at becoming the Trojans head coach on a permanent basis, with the job going instead to a frequently inebriated Steve Sarkisian. How'd that ultimately work out for the USC faithful?

    Sports punditry tends to amplify the noise and the glitter at the expense of the subject matter itself. At least, that's how I see it.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Rockets Trading Away... (none / 0) (#136)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jan 14, 2021 at 12:00:52 PM EST
    ...their best player since Hakeem 'the dream' Olajuwon, James 'the beard' Harden.  It would be a crime to not listed to Houston Sports Radio today.

    Parent
    IMO one way or another (none / 0) (#3)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 07:59:33 AM EST
    Trump, legally or not, Trump will be pardoned.

    The ball is in Trump's and Pence's court. IMO, there are 2 chances of the 25th Amendment being employed...slim and none. If Trump refuses to resign, Pence cannot pardon him and he will IMO try to pardon himself. OTOH, if Trump waits to the last minute and resigns, Pence will pardon him rather than upset Trump's base.

    I doubt that any Democratic action, including impeachment, will change the outcome.

    The purpose of impeachment, at this point (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by Peter G on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 10:49:47 AM EST
    is that conviction comes with a bar to holding public office in the future. And potentially with being stripped of his public pension and even of his lifetime Secret Service protection. I say, if he wants a private right-wing militia to do his bidding extralegally, then let them be his bodyguards in old age. None of this becomes moot at noon on January 20.

    Parent
    I'm all for the impeachment and (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 03:41:03 PM EST
    Trump being stripped of the benefits. I'm also for this effort to take as long as it takes. I just don't believe the Republicans will allow it to happen. If I had my druthers, a Grand Jury would be created on January 21st to pursue multiple charges against him. IMO he has committed multiple crimes and I think his security should be prison guards. Unfortunately, I have little faith that Trump will be held accountable.

    Parent
    He'll be the John McAfee... (none / 0) (#12)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 11:52:28 AM EST
     ... of south Florida.

    Also Trump isn't allowed to live at Mar-a-Lago come January 21st.

    Next-door neighbors of Mar-a-Lago, President Trump's private club in Palm Beach, Fla., that he has called his Winter White House, have a message for the outgoing commander in chief: We don't want you to be our neighbor.

    That message was formally conveyed Tuesday morning in a demand letter delivered to the town of Palm Beach and also addressed to the U.S. Secret Service asserting that Trump lost his legal right to live at Mar-a-Lago because of an agreement he signed in the early 1990s when he converted the storied estate from his private residence to a private club. The legal maneuver could, at long last, force Palm Beach to publicly address whether Trump can make Mar-a-Lago his legal residence and home, as he has been expected to do when he becomes an ex-president after the swearing-in of Joe Biden on Jan. 20.




    Parent
    That was (none / 0) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 03:14:18 PM EST
    more than a month ago. Has there been any action towards keeping him from living there since then?

    Parent
    Where is Article II? (none / 0) (#5)
    by RickyJim on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 10:12:20 AM EST
    The one dealing with Trump's attempts to have various officials change vote counts to his advantage.

    "Prior efforts" (none / 0) (#6)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 10:49:39 AM EST
    Including the call to Georgia election officials are integrated into Article 1,

    Parent
    Are the "Prior efforts" (none / 0) (#9)
    by RickyJim on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 11:03:13 AM EST
    an element of the charge of "Incitement of Insurrection"?  I think it makes sense to make them part of a separate charge.  

    Parent
    Works for me (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 01:52:52 PM EST
    President-elect Joe Biden said he's already spoken with senators about a way to "bifurcate" President Trump's impeachment trial so he could continue to advance his agenda, adding it's "obvious" the House will move to impeach, ABC News reports.

    Said Biden: "Can we go half day on dealing with the impeachment, and half a day getting my people nominated and confirmed in the Senate, as well as moving on the stimulus package -- so that's my hope and expectation."



    Warned (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 02:26:59 PM EST
    White House counsel Pat Cipollone and former Attorney General Bill Barr have warned President Donald Trump that they do not believe he should pardon himself, CNN reports.



    10 republicans (none / 0) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 03:04:32 PM EST
    I bet more

    As many as 10 House Republicans are very seriously considering supporting impeaching President Trump -- and GOP Conference Chair Liz Cheney (R-WY) is said to be one of them, Politico reports.



    I do too. (none / 0) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 03:13:29 PM EST
    I think it will be more like 40. Nothing really to back that up other than I think it will be the same number that did not contest the electoral college.

    Parent
    Up to 20 (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 08:37:19 AM EST
    Now

    Parent
    They just said (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 12:05:52 PM EST
    Republicans are not going to "whip" the vote.  Meaning they said they will let people vote however they want.

    They mentioned it might have something to do with Liz Cheney.  Who is supposed to vote for it.

    I think Kevin is worried Liz is after his job.

    Parent

    Times (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 02:11:39 PM EST
    "House Republican leaders have decided not to formally lobby members of the party against voting to impeach President Trump, making a tacit break with him as they scrambled to gauge support within their ranks for a vote on Wednesday to charge him with inciting violence against the country," the New York Times reports.

    "While Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA), the minority leader, has said that he will `personally' oppose impeachment and sought to steer Republicans in a different direction, his decision not to officially lean on lawmakers to vote against the move constituted a subtle shift away from the president."

    "In the Senate, Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY), the Republican leader, has also conspicuously declined to defend Mr. Trump in any way or to speak out against the impeachment push, which -- if it resulted in a Senate conviction -- could bar the president from holding public office again."

    link


    Parent

    Morning Joe (none / 0) (#58)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 02:30:21 PM EST
    was talking about how McCarthy now has to get ready for an election with the stain of treason and sedition on GOP house members. Joe said there is no way they are able to shake it off. It will be an issue in congressional races in 2022. And many of these people will have much less money if even enough money to run a campaign.

    Parent
    The growing list (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 03:06:15 PM EST
    Of major corporations who have said they will give no money to anyone who voted to challenge the election is the single most important thing, as far as b!tch slapping republicans, to happen since Wed.

    Parent
    Mitch is all in (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 03:48:00 PM EST
    this seems consequential

    Sen. Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, has told associates he believes President Trump committed impeachable offenses and that he is pleased that Democrats are moving to impeach him, believing that it will make it easier to purge him from the party," the Washington Post reports.

    "At the same time, Rep. Kevin McCarthy, the minority leader and one of Mr. Trump's most steadfast allies in Congress, has asked other Republicans whether he ought to call on Mr. Trump to resign in the aftermath of last week's riot at the Capitol."

    link

    Parent

    That is Literally, Unbelievable (none / 0) (#82)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:11:13 PM EST
    I guess those drying up dollars and 2022 have got a lot of R's re-evaluating their loyalties.

    I hate that Trump has spun the country so upside down now I am feel like I'm supporting people like McConnell and Cheney.  Just the though makes my skin crawl and yet they are both spot on.  I don't feel like this is political theater, if Mitch is acting, he needs a Grammy because I feel like this really hit him hard.

    I feel like I'm might have to walk back a comment or two about the Senate hitting 2/3rds.  At the very least it seems possible.

    Parent

    Enough to convict (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 09:19:31 PM EST
    A former senior Trump administration official tells CNBC that he believes there are enough Republican votes in the Senate to convict and remove President Trump if they get articles of impeachment from the House.



    Parent
    If there is a wave of attacks (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 08:44:56 AM EST
    Across the country as the FBI is warning

    Armed protests being planned at all 50 state capitols, FBI bulletin says
    An internal FBI note obtained by ABC News shows warnings of "a huge uprising."

    These people are going to lose most of whatever popular support they now enjoy.  And don't kid yourself, they enjoy some.

    As DC becomes more hardened this seem more likely to me.

    They are not going to be able to touch the inauguration.  And they will do something.

    Biden, Harris (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 11:58:32 AM EST
    and Pelosi should not all be together at the inauguration.  Harris should be sworn in at a separate location. Security procedures are being portrayed as being tight and  they no doubt will be.  However, a part of security should be to sacrifice some ceremony for prudence.

    The prime domestic enemy, Trump, will not be in attendance clearing the way for the possibility of unimaginable tactics by the insurgents.

    Parent

    Here's the Thing... (none / 0) (#34)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 09:52:28 AM EST
    ...would they really take out Joe if they had a chance?  They might be CraZy, but they aren't President Kamala Harris CraZy and after that President Pelosi, OMG they would all have simultaneous strokes.  Inauguration will be fine.

    I think it's a lot of talk, these big bad gun owners who are always inching for a fight will have their chance in just over a week.  Wednesday was like fighting toddlers, next week will be armed soldiers who won't be opening gates and taking selfies.  

    Time for the militias to put up or shut up.
    Of course they will do neither.

    Parent

    I was gonna say (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 11:54:53 AM EST
    maybe just Kamala could be sworn in in a safer place.

    Parent
    Biden, Harris (none / 0) (#50)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 11:59:24 AM EST
    and Pelosi should not all be together at the inauguration.  Harris should be sworn in at a separate location. Security procedures are being portrayed as being tight and  they no doubt will be.  However, a part of security should be to sacrifice some ceremony for prudence.

    The prime domestic enemy, Trump, will not be in attendance clearing the way for the possibility of unimaginable tactics by the insurgents.

    Parent

    The Oregon State Insane Asylum (none / 0) (#53)
    by fishcamp on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 01:56:05 PM EST
    (I doubt they use that wording now) was just down the street from the Capitol building in Salem back when I was a kid.  They could just herd the nutters down there and lock `em up.  They filmed much of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest in that building and it was old then.

    Parent
    Best Way To Prevent Trump From Running Again? (none / 0) (#37)
    by RickyJim on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 10:27:38 AM EST
    Use the 14th Amendment.
    Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, passed in the aftermath of the Civil War, bars Trump from holding another federal office if he is found to have "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against" the Constitution of the United States.
    The finding could be accomplished by a simple majority vote of both houses, in contrast to the requirement in impeachment proceedings that the Senate vote to convict by a two-thirds majority. Congress would simply need to declare that Trump engaged in an act of "insurrection or rebellion" by encouraging the attack on the Capitol. Under the 14th Amendment, Trump could run for the White House again only if he were able to persuade a future Congress to, "by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

    Section 3 was enacted to bar any "civil or military" officer who had served the United States before the Civil War from regaining a position of authority if he betrayed his country by supporting the Confederacy. During the height of Reconstruction, a number of former Confederates were, in fact, barred from holding office. It was only in 1872 that Congress once again allowed these men to serve the United States by passing an Amnesty Act with the requisite two-thirds majorities.



    Plan B (none / 0) (#83)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:17:05 PM EST
    I don't feel like they are mutually exclusive.

    Parent
    It's pretty funny (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 10:41:36 AM EST
    that the only, literally only, argument Gym Jordan had way waaaa waaaa waaaa the Democrats are being mean and it's bad for unity.  unity

    After leading an armed insurrection they are really really worried about unity.

    I doubt it's an argument that will work beyond the (now) 30ish%.

    I'm not sure I understand (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 10:57:33 AM EST
    why they are going on and on about the 25th.  It's not going to happen.  Pence said so.  Everyone knows it won't happen.

    I think going on and on about it is just confusing and complicating the article of impeachment unnecessarily.  

    Just debate thing and pass it.  The sound you hear is the eyes of American glazing over from this 25th amendment stuff.

    Can anyone tell me why they are doing it this way?

    Parent

    It's Getting on My Nerves... (none / 0) (#43)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 11:10:54 AM EST
     ...that all these folks are saying if D's want to bring the country together they can't go after Trump.

    The blame here is Trump, not the people doing their constitutional obligation of holding crooks accountable for their actions.

    I wish I could sit off camera with a 2"x4" that says "I dare you to blame democrats".  Then when they can't help themselves, dunk goes the 2x4.  Not hard enough to cause damage, just enough to leave a nice red mark.

    Let's hold everyone accountable, then the heeling can start.  No healing before justice.

    Parent

    I like the idea of bringing them to heel (none / 0) (#47)
    by vml68 on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 11:48:04 AM EST
    then the heeling can start.  No healing before justice.

    before we start the healing ;-)

    Parent

    this experience seems to feel (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 11:32:23 AM EST
    more and more like post 9/11

    Remember "Bin Laden Determined To Strike in US," President's Daily Brief Dated 6 August 2001

    FBI Report Warned of Violence and `War' at Capitol

    January 12, 2021 at 12:22 pm EST By Taegan Goddard Leave a Comment

    A day before rioters stormed Congress, an FBI office in Virginia issued an explicit internal warning that extremists were preparing to travel to Washington to commit violence and "war," the Washington Post reports.

    An internal document contradicts a senior official's declaration the bureau had no intelligence indicating anyone at last week's pro-Trump protest planned to do harm.

    link

    Trump departs for TX (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 12:36:45 PM EST
    Really should hear this.  I actually enjoyed listening to it.  It is completely untethered   The first this he says is "as you know we've completed the wall."

    it's pretty short

    He doesn't (none / 0) (#57)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 02:26:59 PM EST
    seem to know that Mitch is the senate majority leader not Schumer.

    Parent
    It's causing tremendous anger.. (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 02:54:34 PM EST
    translation: and if they're not, hopefully they will be, after Rush, Tucker, Hannity, Laura, Alex, Mark Levin, 'Dr Savage', Kenneth Copeland and Paula White get through with them.

    Parent
    See my comment (none / 0) (#66)
    by Peter G on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 04:15:05 PM EST
    OK (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 02:14:01 PM EST
    The Joint Chiefs of Staff is preparing a statement to service members reminding them of their duty to support the U.S. Constitution and reject extremism, CNN reports.



    Right (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 02:33:40 PM EST
    A PSYOPS Captain from Fort Bragg and a retired Lt Colonel were part of the mob on Wednesday. No doubt there others.

    Parent
    Dershowitz's groveling (none / 0) (#61)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 03:05:45 PM EST
    twitter feed offering his services to Trump in case of impeachment is pretty hilarious when you read the responses he's getting.

    Parent
    Signed by (none / 0) (#64)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 03:53:29 PM EST
    eight top officers of US,  generals//admirals.  A chilling reminder.

    Parent
    Is That a Subtle Way... (none / 0) (#84)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:19:46 PM EST
    ...of letting people know the military won't be participating in any of Trump's fantasies of remaining President ?

    Parent
    Not that subtle (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:21:45 PM EST
    Now that Mitch has said (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 04:08:28 PM EST
    Let's impeach him, let's see if he puts his leadership where his mouth is and joins Chuck in demanding the senate return now under emergency rules passed after 9/11 and drops the unanimous consent krap.

    Wow (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 04:28:21 PM EST
    A source familiar with the relationship between the two men told CNN that McConnell is furious with Trump. The source said McConnell "hates" Trump for what he did last week following the attacks on the Capitol that left at least five people dead including a Capitol Hill police officer.



    Parent
    Furiously (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 04:43:41 PM EST
    trying to wash the blood off his hands.

    Liz Cheney to vote for impeachment.

    The attempt to wash the stench of tRump off the Republican party has begun in earnest.

    IMO Cheney will be a major force in a reconstituted GOP.

    Parent

    She wants Kevin's job (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 04:55:18 PM EST
    my money is on her getting it.

    Parent
    Maybe even (none / 0) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 05:54:38 PM EST
    LIZ 4 PREZ 2024.

    Parent
    She (none / 0) (#75)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 06:13:05 PM EST
    has her on that prize for sure, the Republicans could do worse.

    Parent
    Full statement (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 06:17:10 PM EST
    For Immediate Release: Contact: January 12, 2021 Jeremy Adler, 202-226-5421
    Cheney: I Will Vote To Impeach The President
    Washington - Wyoming Congresswoman and House Republican Conference Chair Liz Cheney (R-WY) released the following statement ahead of votes in the House this week:
    "On January 6, 2021 a violent mob attacked the United States Capitol to obstruct the process of our democracy and stop the counting of presidential electoral votes. This insurrection caused injury, death and destruction in the most sacred space in our Republic.
    "Much more will become clear in coming days and weeks, but what we know now is enough. The President of the United States summoned this mob, assembled the mob, and lit the flame of this attack. Everything that followed was his doing. None of this would have happened without the President. The President could have immediately and forcefully intervened to stop the violence. He did not. There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution.
    "I will vote to impeach the President."

    Parent
    That is Pretty Damn Forceful (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:27:50 PM EST
    But... where were all these people when Trump stirring this pot and sewing seeds of violence before Wednesday and propping up all the armed nut jobs ?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they see the light, but they also need to do a little self reflecting as to why they sat by and watched it all unfold.  None of these people called out Trump and his 30,000 lies until after people died.

    Parent

    One specific instance out (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:38:16 PM EST
    of many, many that really sticks in my craw is how not one of the amoral cowards on the right ever publicly called out the loathsome a-holes who participated in a campaign of harassment against the Sandy Hook families and Parkland survivors.

    Anything to avoid offending 'champions of the Second Amendment'.

    Parent

    To be fair (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:40:43 PM EST
    Liz has been pretty consistent in opposing Trump on everything from foreign policy to wearing masks.

    Parent
    My Memory is Bad... (none / 0) (#110)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 08:59:57 AM EST
    ...where did Cheney vote on impeachment ?  
    Just kidding.  

    Just another opportunist who is posing as the conscious of the republican party.  But at this point, who cares, she is doing the right thing.

    I say lets get this done soon before any of them realize that the voting republicans still love Donald Trump.  

    Parent

    They should take a secret vote (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 11:13:18 AM EST
    Can they even do that?  It would not be close.

    I was thinking, if I was Pence (shudder) I would wait for him to to impeached - voting against it - then Pardon him out of sympathy.  Get lots of MAGA love.

    If they remove Trump they should do it at noon on the 20th.

    I have question
    If he pardoned the rioters could anything be done about it?

    Because he would absolutely do it out of spite.

    Parent

    I read she (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 06:27:57 PM EST
    Turned down recruitment to run for the senate.  Saying she wanted to stay in the House.  I remember thinking she is either planning to be Speaker or more.

    Parent
    The time of rationality (none / 0) (#70)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 05:04:07 PM EST
    is over for the GOP.

    They've painted themselves into a corner by pandering for so long to the megachurches, gun nuts, and scorched earth libertarians. And now, in the last four years, they have a new congealed faction they have to appease: the conspiracy theorist contingent.

    Parent

    WaPo reporting, (none / 0) (#103)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 09:39:54 PM EST
    Trump specifically identified Liz Cheney in his incitement speech as one that they need to get rid of.  Her father phoned her to tell her what he heard Trump saying.

    Liz may have taken umbrage that Trump put a hit out on her.

    Parent

    Mitch is (none / 0) (#71)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 05:13:09 PM EST
    nothing if not pragmatic.   He feels the pressure of the occasion, an occasion which will become more damning as more becomes known about it.   Also, I suspect Schumer is playing hardball and squeezing on chairmanships.   We got a clue when his wife resigned, also.

    Parent
    Far be it from me to (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 05:31:40 PM EST
    stick up for Mitch but I think it's possible he is genuinely horrified.  He did speak out in opposition to the Big Lie on the senate floor BEFORE the riot.  Twice.

    Not a pol know for passion they were actually pretty passionate.

    Boy this has the feeling of spiraling out of control.  I had a lot to do tomorrow, second Wednesday, but I am postponing it till Thursday.  I'm in front of the tv.

    Parent

    If more stuff happens (none / 0) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 05:58:53 PM EST
    like violence in the states, stand back and stand by, it could trigger a 9/11 style response to domestic terrorism.

    Long overdue

    "The Justice Department and FBI have created a sedition and conspiracy task force to pursue charges against participants in the storming of the U.S. Capitol and are investigating any links to domestic or foreign instigators," the Washington Post reports.

    "The investigation, one of the largest ever undertaken by the department, includes counterterrorism and counterterrorism facets and has charged 70 individuals and identified 170 suspects to date."

    Said U.S. attorney Michael Sherwin, citing video footage not yet public: "The gamut of cases is mind-blowing... People are going to be shocked with egregious activity in the Capitol."



    If actors outside the country (none / 0) (#76)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 06:15:34 PM EST
    were trying to sow chaos in the U.S, it's going pretty well, I'd say..

    One (to me) plausible conspiracy theory you hear very public figures addressing for some reason.

    Parent

    Very few.. (none / 0) (#77)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 06:15:58 PM EST
    Why do you think (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 06:21:35 PM EST
    foreign influence is necessary?  It's not impossible and no doubt there are "bots" saying go for it but trust me, there is plenty of potential domestic insurrection without any foreign help..  Plenty.

    Parent
    It just seems like (none / 0) (#86)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:22:49 PM EST
    something some people and intelligence services in countries with an adversarial attitude toward the U.S might be inclined to do. Fanning the flames of insurrection in a country you hate.

    People not famous for a lot of independent introspection need 'thoughts' and encouragement serve up for them often. And Fox, the megachurches, and The Heritage Foundation can't do everything.

    And then there's identity politics on the left to consider as well. To keep 'the races' at each other's throats.  

    Parent

    I think you dangerously (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:44:18 PM EST
    Underestimate our enemy.  I see this a lot with folks who do not regularly interact with them.

    I don't think it's an understatement to say you have no idea how much rage there is right here in River City.

    Parent

    Um, overstatement (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:44:51 PM EST
    I look at the right-wing (none / 0) (#92)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:50:59 PM EST
    sites frequently. They're off the rails, through the weeds, and somewhere out in the woods. Believe me, I get it.

    Parent
    No offense (none / 0) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:54:16 PM EST
    But looking at right wing site will not do it.  Half the people I'm talking about, the dangerous ones, don't do websites

    Parent
    The ones posting (none / 0) (#96)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 08:00:26 PM EST
    at Breitbart, Parler etc are bad enough.. "My trigger finger's itchy" "this is 1776!" "round 'em all up" "Boogaloo time!" You don't need a weatherman..

    That kind of sh*t plus last Wednesday is all I need to know

    Parent

    My very point is (none / 0) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 08:03:29 PM EST
    99.5% of that is Cheeto stained wannabe BS.  The dangerous ones live where I live and probably don't know what Breitbart is.

    Parent
    Talk radio (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 08:30:07 PM EST
    Actually (none / 0) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:58:14 PM EST
    there were some Russian agents arrested. To the extent that they had a part in instigating anything seems marginal. This match was lit by domestic terrorists and foreign influence if any just decided to help it along.

    Parent
    I would think (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 07:59:46 PM EST
    you, of everyone here, would understand what I'm talking about.

    Parent
    The bad thing about them (none / 0) (#98)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 08:06:01 PM EST
    is that they're crazy and violent. In that context, the good thing about them is that they're stupid.

    Which is why so many couldn't resist live-streaming and bragging and self-aggrandizing while they were breaking numerous laws.


    Parent

    I did not see the ZipTie Guy (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 08:18:08 PM EST
    Live-streaming.  He and his friends were wearing ski masks.  Once again you are confusing the dilettante tourists with the actually dangerous ones.

    There were thousands of idiot followers with their cell phones out.  As much as they tell you they are on Brietbart they are NOT the problem.  I think it will become clear there was a lot not live-streaming.  And that they are what you should be worried about.

    Parent

    Yeah but they brazenly traipsed (none / 0) (#101)
    by jondee on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 08:44:19 PM EST
    into a place with more high-def security cameras than there are in the money vault at the biggest Vegas casino.

    They're crazy, dangerous, morons - with apologies to all the dangerous, crazy, morons out there.

    Parent

    I guess they forgot their hoods. (none / 0) (#104)
    by desertswine on Tue Jan 12, 2021 at 11:14:25 PM EST
    The security (none / 0) (#107)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 04:49:53 AM EST
    camera footage that caught all of this that gets released daily backs up what you are saying. On 60 minutes they showed video from one of her staff where the rioters were trying to break down her door while the staffers were hiding under the table.

    Paul Begala was right 20 years ago when he called these people banana Republicans. This is the kind of thing I grew up seeing in 3rd world countries.

    Parent

    I Have to Side with Captain... (none / 0) (#108)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 08:20:25 AM EST
    ...on this one.  Don't confuse opportune tourists with the real deal, people who have been angry and ready for battle long before Donald Trump.  One requires tear gas, a curfew, and riot shields to disperse. The other will engage in full on battle and a lot of people will die.

    Hard to say at this point whose going to show up next week, but if the people who are willing to lay down their lives do, it will not be done in a day or two.  The fact that the chatter has moved over to encrypted sites does not bode well for America.

    Parent

    I do (none / 0) (#106)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 04:45:54 AM EST
    and I agree with what you are saying. I was just pointing out to Jondee that even though there appears to be some foreign involvement they are not the issue here.

    Parent
    Trump Determined to Attack US, continued. (none / 0) (#111)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 09:38:27 AM EST
    Jordan Klepper, "Sr. Correspondent" on the Trevor Noah Show, interviewed insurrectionists--probably group #2 (those serving as beards for group #1).

    Feels like watching (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 12:05:58 PM EST
    the trial of The Big Lie.  So far the prosecution is winning.

    The Big Lue (none / 0) (#126)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 02:41:34 PM EST
    Politico: "As the Republican Party begins to reckon with the fallout from the deadly insurrection, it's being forced to confront a disquieting truth: the lie that ultimately led to the violence -- that the election was stolen from President Donald Trump -- drew far-reaching support from the party's governing class at every level, extending far beyond Congress and reaching deep into America's statehouses."

    "One week after the deadly insurrection and the certification of Joe Biden's victory, institutionalist Republicans are desperate to move the party past the events of last week. But in statehouses across the country, the prospect of a clean break has never seemed more remote."



    Parent
    Basically (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 03:51:45 PM EST
    sounds like the GOP has gone full Nazi. So the only solution is to beat them at the ballot box over and over until they start telling the truth.

    Parent
    Voltaire again... (5.00 / 4) (#132)
    by desertswine on Wed Jan 13, 2021 at 03:53:43 PM EST
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

    Parent