George Floyd: Protests, Violence and Official Inaction

Bump and Update: Protesters have set a Minneapolis police precinct on fire. The police are no longer there. There are no sirens and no one coming to put out the fire. Their philosophy seems to be we are outmanned, we're heading out and they're on their own. There are thousands of people in the streets.

The sad thing is that attention is being drawn from such a legitimate protest. People will focus on the violence of the protesters rather than the actions of the police that precipitated them. [More..]

Original Post: Protests in Minnesota over the May 25, 2020, death of George Floyd turned violent overnight and the National Guard was called in. Here is DOJ's and the FBI's latest statement.

Reactions to this tragic killing will get worse. This is a case of police misconduct that the entire nation can relate to. I doubt anyone will try to justify the actions of the cops, four of whom have been fired -- so far.

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    This is worth reposting (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 28, 2020 at 03:10:11 PM EST
    I think

    Klobuchar Declined to Prosecute Cop Who Killed Floyd

    May 28, 2020 at 2:36 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 403 Comments

    While serving as Minnesota's chief prosecutor between 1999 and 2007, Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) "declined to bring charges against more than two dozen police officers who had killed citizens while on duty - including against the officer that killed George Floyd" in Minneapolis this week, MintPress News reports.

    The Washington Post examined Klobuchar's record as a prosecutor early last year: "As a prosecutor in heavily white Minnesota, Amy Klobuchar declined to go after police involved in fatal encounters with black men."

    The Week has more details.

    Jonathan Capehart: Why black voters don't want Klobuchar as Biden's running mate.

    defense site (1.00 / 3) (#5)
    by thomas rogan on Thu May 28, 2020 at 07:17:02 PM EST
    I'm sure someone can release the information on the cases Klobuchar didn't file charges on, but since none of the cases are household names or involved rioting then I suspect that there wasn't much of a case to be made.  Since most other prosecutors seldom go after cops, I don't know why Klobuchar is especially being singled out except for political reasons.  
    You haven't mentioned the numerous times Kamala Harris went after cops involved in killing black suspects when she was DA and then attorney general of California.  Wonder why.

    "Wonder why?" (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Yman on Thu May 28, 2020 at 08:30:02 PM EST
    Why not say it?  Didn't think you Trumpers worried about being "politically correct".

    As I recall (none / 0) (#161)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat May 30, 2020 at 06:03:28 PM EST
    The decedent pointed a shotgun at the wrong people.

    Klobuchar (none / 0) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 29, 2020 at 11:59:41 AM EST
    Is on MSNBC trying to clean this up.  Not doing a very good job IMO.

    Or was minutes ago.  I'm on a delay.


    Media reports she submitted the cases (none / 0) (#108)
    by oculus on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:05:50 AM EST
    to the grand jury.  Which is the usual practice.

    The attempt to deflect responsibility (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by Peter G on Sat May 30, 2020 at 01:28:01 PM EST
    from Klobuchar by saying that she submitted the case to a grand jury is disingenuous. It is the prosecutor who decides what evidence to present to the grand jury (and what evidence not to present), who explains to the grand jurors what statutory charges might or might not be available and why, and who makes a recommendation to them, which may be based on the prosecutor's view of the defense case and the chances of conviction, and may include her view of the public interest. The transcript of the prosecutor's presentation before the grand jury is ordinarily kept under seal and not made public. To suggest that a cross-section of the community made the non-prosecution decision, rather than the prosecutor herself, is very unlikely to be a fair characterization of what really happened.

    Do you acknowledge it was common (none / 0) (#145)
    by oculus on Sat May 30, 2020 at 02:07:48 PM EST
    practice at the time?

    That *what* was (none / 0) (#156)
    by Peter G on Sat May 30, 2020 at 03:25:17 PM EST
    "common practice"?

    For an elected District Attorney to (none / 0) (#162)
    by oculus on Sat May 30, 2020 at 08:03:56 PM EST
    submit the decision whether to criminally charge a law enforcement officer to the grand jury.

    Yes, I think it is common practice (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Peter G on Sat May 30, 2020 at 09:34:04 PM EST
    in states where the criminal procedure rules and State Constitution allow the prosecutor that choice. It gives the elected DA political cover.

    So, the accusation would be (none / 0) (#163)
    by MKS on Sat May 30, 2020 at 08:28:42 PM EST
    the DA (Klobuchar) pull her punches and presented a deliberately half-as&ed case to the grand jury?

    So she could cover for the police and also say she tried but blame the grand jury?

    That is a lot of work if you could just blow off the whole thing as prosecutorial discretion in the first instance.

    But you would know.  Does this type of contrived CYA happen often?


    I can't say how often it happens (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Peter G on Sat May 30, 2020 at 09:40:42 PM EST
    not having looked for any academic research on the practice, and having only my personal experience to rely on, and since the proof of it would be in sealed transcripts. But yes, that's the accusation I am making. It provides political cover to the elected DA, so no I don't agree it's too much work to be worth it. Just look at how angry people get over these cases, and rightly so. Yet the DA cannot do her job effectively without the cooperation of the police, who she therefore does not want to view her as an adversary. Our current elected DA in Philadelphia, a political progressive and former police misconduct civil rights lawyer, is having exactly this problem.

    And Yet (none / 0) (#178)
    by RickyJim on Sun May 31, 2020 at 09:35:51 AM EST
    There is no movement in the US to get rid of grand juries and elected prosecutors and have the police investigation supervised by a judge rather than a prosecutor.  Of course not.  The American way is always the best and the hell with what the rest of the world does.

    In the inquisitorial system, which is what (none / 0) (#183)
    by Peter G on Sun May 31, 2020 at 12:00:32 PM EST
    you are referring to, there is also no privilege against self-incrimination as we know it. Look, the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments (restricting federal and state procedures respectively) to the U.S. Constitution guarantee that no one can be deprived of "liberty" without "due process of law." The "due process" that the Framers of the 1790s and 1860s understood is the basic system you want to overthrow. (Grand juries, by the way, are not an essential part of that process, according to the Supreme Court.) It cannot happen in America, and not because no one is as smart as you are.

    Thanks for Enlightening Me (none / 0) (#184)
    by RickyJim on Sun May 31, 2020 at 02:00:55 PM EST
    I never knew before that elected prosecutors, running police investigations, (also elected or politically chosen judges?) are essential to due process.

    I apologize if you were unable to ascertain (none / 0) (#185)
    by Peter G on Sun May 31, 2020 at 02:14:01 PM EST
    -- from my specific reference to the "inquisitorial system" -- that I was responding solely to your advocacy (which you have written on previously on TalkLeft) of judge-supervised pre-charging investigations. I agree that there is no necessary connection between that idea and whether DAs are elected or not (nor judges, for that matter). I happen to favor non-political professionalization of both, fwiw. I will try, if you are actually interested in what I have to offer, to be more clear and precise in the future. As you may have noticed, I tend to try in my comments to address only one thing at a time.

    I Think Out Basic Disagreement (none / 0) (#186)
    by RickyJim on Sun May 31, 2020 at 02:54:09 PM EST
    is whether adversarial or inquisitorial systems result in a better quality of justice, not whether one has more "due process" than the other.  On something we may agree about, just what is preventing any of the 50 states from making judges and prosecutors civil service positions?  In reading the comments in recent threads, it seems that many people are uncomfortable that being a public prosecutor can be a stepping stone to a political career.

    Personal supposition : Prosecutor elects (none / 0) (#187)
    by oculus on Sun May 31, 2020 at 02:56:26 PM EST
    to present case to grand jury. Grand jury indicts. Prosecutor is somewhat shielded from criticism by law enforcement--grand jury issued the indictment, not prosecutor. If prosecutor didn't want to prosecute that case, could Have just declined to prosecute.

    My non legal opinion (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 31, 2020 at 03:20:20 PM EST
    Of what is being suggested is that declining would have "looked bad".  


    Better to toss it to a GJ you are pretty sure will ignore it.


    Actually, it is trial juries that so (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by oculus on Sun May 31, 2020 at 04:54:55 PM EST
    Often do not convict law enforcement defendants.

    None of the cops (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by CST on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 07:48:49 AM EST
    That Klobachar sent to the grand jury were indicted.  Not even one.

    Child's play (none / 0) (#189)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 31, 2020 at 03:56:19 PM EST
    To get juries (Grand or criminal) to to fail to indict or convict police officers in the death of black men. Regardless of the evidence, only one member of the jury needs to be afraid of black men for them to buy into the officers claim that they feared for their lives.

    True of trial juries, if by "fail to indict (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Peter G on Sun May 31, 2020 at 06:01:23 PM EST
    or convict" you mean a hung jury at trial. (A hung jury is not an acquittal and does not prevent retrial.) Indictment only requires a majority vote of the grand jury finding probable cause. A single holdout on the grand jury does not prevent indictment.

    Thanks (none / 0) (#198)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 31, 2020 at 09:18:36 PM EST
    For the correction. I'm stilling of the opinion, that police are not held responsible for their actions due to the in grained "scary black man" response of jury members. It often provides police with a get out of jail free card.

    Very true. But police accused of crimes (none / 0) (#199)
    by Peter G on Sun May 31, 2020 at 09:24:24 PM EST
    actually get a gigantic benefit of the doubt from jurors, regardless of the race of the civilian complainant/victim. Probably true in the grand jury as well. I'm not saying otherwise. Just that in the GJ, the jurors are much more susceptible to pressure and influence from the prosecutor who, for lack of any judge or defense attorney, completely runs the show.

    I discussed this issue via ZOOM today w2 (5.00 / 2) (#200)
    by oculus on Sun May 31, 2020 at 09:27:00 PM EST
    former colleagues. I must apologize to you. They agree with you that in many states, not CA, the prosecutor goes the grand jury route to stifle not indict.

    The usual practice (none / 0) (#122)
    by CST on Sat May 30, 2020 at 11:11:33 AM EST
    Led to no charges ever being filed against cops in any circumstances.

    Sometimes "usual practice" is not a good thing.


    The usual practice (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 11:15:12 AM EST
    Is in fact the problem

    Not entirely accurate. Grand jury (none / 0) (#127)
    by oculus on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:12:50 PM EST
    may or may not return an indictment. If it does, case goes to trial.  Jury decides whether to return a guilty verdict.

    How about the thing about (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:14:39 PM EST
    How if they choose a prosecutor can get a GJ to indict a ham sandwich?

    My point. Klobucher (none / 0) (#131)
    by oculus on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:22:20 PM EST
    Submitted the cases to the grand jury. The burden of proof is not "beyond a reasonable doubt."  In my opinion, this was an appropriate choice within the discretion of an elected District Attorney.

    As you likely are aware, trial juries frequently do not unanimously vote guilty in cases where the defendant is a law enforcement officer.


    As I said (none / 0) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:25:20 PM EST
    The usual practice is the problem

    And in the cases of police violence (none / 0) (#130)
    by CST on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:20:25 PM EST
    They almost never indict.

    The usual practice is one thing for civilians, and an entirely different thing for the police.


    If the issue is Klobucher's (none / 0) (#133)
    by oculus on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:27:00 PM EST
    Handling of officer-involved shootings while she was elected District Attorney, how many such cases were presented to her office; of that number, how many were brought before a grand jury.  How many resulted in an indictment by the grand jury?  As to the indictments returned, what was the subsequent result.  Jury verdicts. Change of plea before trial.

    Its not a new subject (none / 0) (#135)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:35:12 PM EST
    The Washington Post examined Klobuchar's record as a prosecutor early last year: "As a prosecutor in heavily white Minnesota, Amy Klobuchar declined to go after police involved in fatal encounters with black men."

    Doesn't address the questions I posed. (none / 0) (#137)
    by oculus on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:43:28 PM EST
    She apparently did submit cases to grand jury.

    Being non legal (none / 0) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:50:46 PM EST
    I have zero interest in a legal debate.  But as a non legal person it was not my impression the duty and responsibility of a prosecutor was tossing it to the GJ and whatever happens happens.

    From the reporting I've seen (none / 0) (#136)
    by CST on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:39:35 PM EST
    All but one (out of 25) was referred to the grand jury and none of them were indicted.



    That is a deceptively worded headline. (none / 0) (#139)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:53:57 PM EST
    Amy Klobuchar was no longer serving as Hennepin County Prosecuting Attorney when the Reyes case -- which was the officer-involved shooting that specifically involved Officer Derek Chauvin -- was first presented to a grand jury in Sept. 2007, having already taken office as U.S. senator nine months earlier.

    The case had first been referred to Klobuchar's office for further investigation by the Minneapolis police in the final weeks of her term, which ended on Dec. 31, 2006. Per a public statement by the Hennepin County Prosecutor's office, she had no role at all in the decision making, grand jury investigation and outcome.

    Klobuchar's record as Hennepin County's prosecuting attorney is certainly fair game in any discussion of fatal African American encounters with police officers. But to use the Reyes case as the ostensible rationale to conduct such a public examination is highly misleading to the point of inflammatory, when she really had nothing to do with that case and her connection to it was tangential at best.

    Further, I believe it was fairly standard for prosecutors to refer officer-involved shootings / deaths to grand juries when Klobuchar served in that capacity from 1999-2006, rather than make a decision in-house whether or not to indict and prosecute.

    In my opinion, it was a lamentable and dubious practice that allowed elected prosecutors and district attorneys nationwide to punt such cases and shirk public responsibility for the decisions. And in that regard, it's rather unfair for media to now single Klobuchar out as that practice's poster child when most everyone engaged in it.

    Now, I'm not at all advocating for Sen. Klobuchar's consideration as the Democratic vice presidential nominee. I think Joe Biden can do much better by looking elsewhere. But we should be honest in our criticisms of her. For the media to use the Reyes case as a cudgel to bash her publicly, given the actual facts, is rather shabby.



    Yeah (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:59:23 PM EST
    The source cited in the linked article (none / 0) (#105)
    by Peter G on Thu May 28, 2020 at 04:52:28 PM EST

    does not support its claim that Chauvin has "killed multiple times" previously, and with impunity. Which in no way excuses the present incident. The law -- even at its most indulgent -- does not allow a police officer to apply deadly force when its use is not necessary to protect someone's life or to stop a fleeing felon, nor beyond the point at which deadly force ceases to be necessary, even if it was initially. That said, I have to assume that Klobuchar's chances at becoming VP are now toast.


    Yeah no kidding (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 28, 2020 at 05:05:06 PM EST

    That was updated
    George Floyd's death in police custody is renewing criticism of Sen. Amy Klobuchar's (D-MN) prosecutorial record, The Week reports.
    "Before she became a senator and a top contender for former Vice President Joe Biden's vice presidential spot, Klobuchar spent eight years as the Hennepin County attorney, in charge of prosecution for Minneapolis. And while in that position, Klobuchar declined to prosecute multiple police officers cited for excessive force, including the officer who kneeled on Floyd's neck as he protested."

    As for the officer who apparently killed Floyd, The Guardian reports that Klobuchar "did not prosecute and instead the case went to a grand jury that declined to charge the officers with wrongdoing in 2008."

    The Washington Post examined Klobuchar's record as a prosecutor early last year: "As a prosecutor in heavily white Minnesota, Amy Klobuchar declined to go after police involved in fatal encounters with black men."

    Jonathan Capehart: Why black voters don't want Klobuchar as Biden's running mate.

    Note to readers: An earlier version of this post linked to a source that may not be credible, although the reporting is similar.

    Parent | Reply to This

    Was disheartened to see a video (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Chuck0 on Thu May 28, 2020 at 07:08:27 PM EST
    of a Target being looted. That does nothing for the protest or the cause of stopping police violence against black men. It only feeds the right wingers.

    There's this (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 28, 2020 at 08:15:41 PM EST

    Right-Wing `Race War' Wannabes Could Make Police Protests Go Nuclear

    Fears are growing over right-wing provocateurs exploiting the protests of police violence as they seek to start a second civil war in America, that they call the "boogaloo."

    "The Minneapolis protests this week--which resulted in fires and broken windows and reports of at least one adjacent shooting death--aren't just drawing racial justice activists. They're attracting attention from heavily-armed forces on the right. Some of them, members of a growing white supremacist movement, openly hope to co-opt the protests to start a race war," The Daily Beast reported Thursday. "Others claim to make common cause with anti-police protesters, but may be inclined to turn guns on protesters when they appear to threaten private property."

    Published (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by KeysDan on Thu May 28, 2020 at 08:36:30 PM EST
    February 17, 2020.

    that comment was deleted (none / 0) (#171)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:47:51 PM EST
    as off topic and unacceptable portrayal of four month old news as current.

    Misleading, recycled headlines ... (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by Yman on Thu May 28, 2020 at 08:48:56 PM EST
    The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention will be testing for the coronavirus in people in five major cities who show up at clinics with flu-like symptoms but who test negative for the seasonal varieties.

    If that testing shows the virus has slipped into the country in places federal officials don't know about, "we've got a problem," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told USA TODAY's Editorial Board Monday.

    ... from mid-February is the best you guys can do?  When the orange buffoon was telling people it was totally under control and going to disappear weeks afterwards?


    Freeman (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 29, 2020 at 01:11:36 PM EST
    Is really excited about how quickly they "charged" him.

    Avoiding all questions about why it took a week to arrest him.

    Anyone else -- and I do mean anyone -- (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by Peter G on Fri May 29, 2020 at 02:19:36 PM EST
    who strangled another person to death in the presence of several police officers, while the victim was restrained and incapacitated, would be arrested on the spot, even if the perpetrator claimed to be acting with justification, such as in self-defense, or responding to a pattern of abuse as a battered woman, or for the purpose of making a "citizen's arrest," or whatever. Tell it to the jury, the prosecutor would say.

    The charges are third degree murder (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Peter G on Fri May 29, 2020 at 06:49:09 PM EST
    which is causing a person's death by actions taken with a depraved indifference to the value of human life and the risk of fatal consequences, but without an actual subjective intent to cause death. 25 yr maximum penalty. In most American states (and in the federal criminal code) this is called "second degree murder."  And second degree manslaughter (generally known in America as involuntary manslaughter), which is causing the death of a person by gross negligence, that is, taking an unreasonable risk of causing serious bodily injury or death. Ten year max. To be honest, the difference between the two is entirely subjective, and determined in the judgment of a jury of ordinary citizens exercising what is sometimes called "the conscience of the community."

    On and on and on and on... (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:49:28 AM EST
    Just saw this: (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Jun 01, 2020 at 01:14:27 PM EST
    Question (none / 0) (#150)
    by Repack Rider on Sat May 30, 2020 at 11:39:02 AM PST
    As you know, Richard Nixon was the first GOP presidential candidate to enlist the aid of a hostile foreign power in order to win an election.

    His conspiracy with the North Vietnamese was followed by Reagan conspiring with Iran, and Trump having full knowledge of the Russian interference that worked perfectly without his assistance.

    How close do you think the 1968 election would have been if Richard Nixon had not been a traitor?

    Bonus question:



    And it led me to the google:

    1960 election (by Soviet Union)

    Adlai Stevenson II had been the Democratic presidential nominee in 1952 and 1956, and the Soviets offered him propaganda support if he would run again for president in 1960, but Stevenson declined to run again.[113] Instead, Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev backed John F. Kennedy in that very close election, against Richard Nixon with whom Krushchev had clashed in the 1959 Kitchen Debate.[114] On 1 July 1960 a Soviet MiG-19 shot down an American RB-47H reconnaissance aircraft in the international airspace over the Barents Sea with four of the crew being killed and two captured by the Soviets: John R. McKone and Freeman B. Olmstead.[115] The Soviets held on to those two prisoners, in order to avoid giving Nixon (who was the incumbent Vice-President of the United States) an opportunity to boast about his ability to work with the Soviets, and the two Air Force officers were released just days after Kennedy's inauguration, on 25 January 1961. Khrushchev later bragged that Kennedy acknowledged the Soviet help: "You're right. I admit you played a role in the election and cast your vote for me...."[114] Former Soviet ambassador to the United States Oleg Troyanovsky confirms Kennedy's acknowledgment, but also quotes Kennedy doubting whether the Soviet support made a difference: "I don't think it affected the elections in any way."[114][116]

    Preliminary autopsy report in this link (1.00 / 1) (#67)
    by McBain on Fri May 29, 2020 at 06:03:57 PM EST
    Page 3
    no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation...
    ...the combined effects of being pinned down by an officer as well as his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death."

    Floyd's relatives wil bring in Dr. Baden to perform an independent autopsy.  

    In that case (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Repack Rider on Fri May 29, 2020 at 08:50:10 PM EST
    He must be alive.

    Sad to say (1.00 / 2) (#86)
    by ragebot on Fri May 29, 2020 at 09:45:01 PM EST
    tonight seems to be worse than last night.  Already a couple of arson incidents in Minneapolis where the curfew seems to be little more than a bad joke.

    Atlanta and NYC have also had incidents involving arson; the one in NYC at a police station.  It is still early; not just tonight but for the weekend as well.  There has been small arms fire in all three cities.

    The longer this goes on the stronger the calls will be for a strong law and order candidate.  This only hurts the dems and helps Trump.

    Why do you keep posting (5.00 / 4) (#88)
    by CST on Fri May 29, 2020 at 10:04:49 PM EST
    The same comment over and over?

    There is no one left on the fence.


    He distinguishes truth from falsehood (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by jondee on Fri May 29, 2020 at 10:29:46 PM EST
    about as well as a maladjusted middle schooler, but somehow he represents law and order to you. How does that work exactly?

    Talk about assuming facts not represented by the evidence.

    Is he going to "make the trains run on time" like Il Duce?


    National Guard (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 28, 2020 at 04:37:57 PM EST
    Where was the National Guard (5.00 / 5) (#57)
    by Chuck0 on Fri May 29, 2020 at 02:25:02 PM EST
    when heavily armed white guys were showing up at state capitols to demand their right to get a haircut?

    If charged, which I assume at least one (none / 0) (#7)
    by McBain on Thu May 28, 2020 at 08:16:33 PM EST
    officer will be, they deserve a fair trial.  A trial based on the facts specific to this case not the crimes and perceived crimes of others.  Is that possible? I hope so.  

    con·cern troll (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 28, 2020 at 08:25:30 PM EST

    a person who disingenuously expresses concern about an issue with the intention of undermining or derailing genuine discussion


    No Howdy (none / 0) (#12)
    by McBain on Thu May 28, 2020 at 08:41:02 PM EST
    This is something I feel very strongly about.  I don't know anyone who has defended the actions of any of these officers but they still have rights.

    Of course they do (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by Yman on Thu May 28, 2020 at 09:14:50 PM EST
    Unlike the actual victims, the police always have rights.

    Actual victims (none / 0) (#35)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri May 29, 2020 at 10:25:51 AM EST
    You mean like all of the people whose livelihoods were destroyed by fire because the mayor and the governor were content to let the rioters reign uncontested.

    Why is it that Republicans (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Yman on Fri May 29, 2020 at 10:18:22 PM EST
    ... always place a greater value on property than they do on human lives?

    Well, ... certain lives.

    Then they claim to be "pro life", the "party of God" and of "family values".

    What a pathetic joke.


    Yeah, but here's the thing ... (5.00 / 6) (#17)
    by Peter G on Thu May 28, 2020 at 09:18:32 PM EST
    NOBODY has suggested that if charged the killer or killers shouldn't have all their rights protected; certainly no one on this site. So that's not the issue. The discussion is about the persistent and plainly racist scourge of deadly force being employed abusively by police and vigilantes against young black men (primarily, although not all young and not all males), and what can be done about it. There is no societal problem I am aware of, of police accused of wrongdoing being denied fair trials. Au contraire; their chances of acquittal are orders of magnitude greater than those of almost anyone else. So "concern troll" seems an apt suggestion.

    We can have two discussions (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by McBain on Fri May 29, 2020 at 09:50:05 AM EST
    one specifically about this case and one about the country but many people are going to let their opinions of race relations impact their opinion of these officers.  I hope, if there are jury trials for this case, that won't happen there.

    The discussion is about the persistent and plainly racist scourge of deadly force being employed abusively by police and vigilantes against young black men (primarily, although not all young and not all males), and what can be done about it.

    What's the evidence of that?  I'm not saying racism doesn't exist but I'm not aware of any proof of anything persistent. In the cases I've followed the most... Zimmerman, Wilson, Freddie Gray officers, there wasn't evidence of racism.

    I have seen plenty of evidence of people exploiting the perception of racism at great cost to innocent people.


    You seem determined (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 29, 2020 at 09:56:35 AM EST
    To prove my point.  

    The evidence of systemic racism in the (5.00 / 9) (#33)
    by Peter G on Fri May 29, 2020 at 10:04:35 AM EST
    criminal justice system is overwhelming in the scholarly literature using multiple regression analysis to test the effect of given factors in a multi-factor problem. The court mandated data collected from the court-ordered monitoring in the stop-and-frisk litigation, just for example, shows unjustified police interference with young black men's freedom of movement at about six times the rate for young white men. Data on arrests for simple possession of marijuana are similar. By "persistent," I mean from about 1870 to the present. If you are "not aware" of it, I am very sorry about your lack of attention to the most significant and best-known problem in our society.

    Peter, you said "deadly force" (none / 0) (#36)
    by McBain on Fri May 29, 2020 at 10:42:21 AM EST
    in your original reply, that's what I'm referring to.  The only related study I'm aware of is this Harvard study...
    On the most extreme use of force -officer-involved shootings - we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account.

    It's only one study and not perfect for the Floyd case but it's the only one I've come across.  If you have links to others, please share.  

    The Harvard study also says...

    blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian behavior reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities.

    That could be an important discussion but it's not really what I'm talking about now.

    If you look only at the details of each (5.00 / 8) (#34)
    by Peter G on Fri May 29, 2020 at 10:07:47 AM EST
    individual case, you are guaranteed not to see the big picture. Which appears to be your goal.

    At least there are some white people ... (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 29, 2020 at 05:06:25 PM EST
    ... who see the big picture. When police squared up to move against black protestors at Minneapolis City Hall last night, a line of white citizens (mostly women, from what I can see) moved in between the two, linked arms and defied police orders to get out of the way.

    That took some real courage. From what I understand, the police subsequently backed off. Sadly, the standoff personifies what's wrong with law enforcement in this country. They are perceived by all too many people as the aggressors.



    People rip on (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by MKS on Fri May 29, 2020 at 10:18:10 PM EST
    Millenials a lot as being selfish and frivolous, but actually I think many young people are quite moral and ethical and civic minded.  And meet the challenge when called.

    "I am not aware of any proof (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by MKS on Fri May 29, 2020 at 11:58:21 PM EST
    of anything persistent," you write.

    That really tells it all.   Willfully blind, I would say.....

    Stacking the deck with impossible hurdles to admitting actual racism.


    Here's an interesting article (none / 0) (#115)
    by McBain on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:45:45 AM EST
    about fatal officer involved shootings.

    "Until now, there's never been a systematic, nationwide study to determine the characteristics of police involved in fatal officer-involved shootings," said Joseph Cesario, co-author and professor of psychology at MSU. "There are so many examples of people saying that when black citizens are shot by police, it's white officers shooting them. In fact, our findings show no support that black citizens are more likely to be shot by white officers."


    By connecting the findings of police officer race, victim race and crime rates, the research suggests that the best way to understand police shootings isn't racial bias of the police officer; rather, by the exposure to police officers through crime.

    Selective Outrage (none / 0) (#89)
    by MKS on Fri May 29, 2020 at 10:14:31 PM EST
    The main issue I have with your approach is that you support the powerful and the establishment when they are accused.

    But I am unaware of your concern for the weak and powerless.   They are the ones who need the help.  Not white America.


    I've posted many commments (none / 0) (#118)
    by McBain on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:52:06 AM EST
    about poor, powerless people (often black) who have been wrongfully convicted or overcharged. Rarely does anyone respond to those.  But when I suggest there might be a rush to judgment for a police officer, people get bent out of shape.  My approach is very fair and consistent. You just haven't noticed.

    Did you read my comment in Jeralyn's post about Archie Williams?


    As we know from (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Repack Rider on Thu May 28, 2020 at 08:35:03 PM EST
    Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown, the standard tactic is to put the victim on trial, and claim that the much better armed shooter was only defending himself from one of those...animals.

    They are even more dangerous when wounded, you have to put them down.


    That "press conference" was something (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 28, 2020 at 08:43:12 PM EST
    It's really amazing you could literally mix and match what the pasty white bureaucrats say.  EVERY time.  And you could not tell them apart

    That video was (fill in the blank) awful horrible terrible yadda yadda

    This should NEVER happen to anyone yadda yadda

    This must never happen again yadda yadda

    Meanwhile it likely already happened again.


    A better comparison would be (none / 0) (#32)
    by McBain on Fri May 29, 2020 at 09:58:46 AM EST
    the Eric Garner case, although there are significant differences.  

    One difference (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Repack Rider on Fri May 29, 2020 at 01:46:06 PM EST
    Garner's killing was on video.  Brown and Martin were killed with no video, and the only "side" that was heard was the shooter's.

    That allowed the victims to be smeared and blamed for their own murders.


    CNN (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 28, 2020 at 09:03:42 PM EST
    Trump (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 28, 2020 at 10:12:42 PM EST
    Loves this.  No talk of his polls or his failure.  Just brown and urban people wild in the streets.

    Do you remember (1.00 / 1) (#20)
    by ragebot on Thu May 28, 2020 at 11:09:21 PM EST
    the Democratic convention in 1968.  A lot of folks think this is what destroyed the dems and allowed the pubs to win in a landslide.

    There is a talking head on CNN saying he hopes 500 National Guard troops will be enough to regain control of the streets.  The on scene CNN reporters are being attacked by protesters. MSNBC claims the fire department could not get to the fires even if they wanted too.

    I agree this helps Trump.  It simply re-enforces the image of lawlessness on the part of some.  The ads for Trump make themselves.


    Landslide? (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 29, 2020 at 08:47:12 PM EST
    Ragebot: "Do you remember the Democratic convention in 1968.  A lot of folks think this is what destroyed the dems and allowed the pubs to win in a landslide."

    In the 1968 election, Richard Nixon (31,783,783 votes) beat Hubert Humphrey (31,271,839 votes) by only 511,944 votes nationwide, or 0.7% of the popular vote. George Wallace finished a distant third with 9,901,118 votes (13.5%).

    Those facts were readily available to you, if only you were actually interested in informing yourself before commenting.

    Don't show up here armed with only a bag of wind.


    As is typical of under informed folks (1.00 / 4) (#85)
    by ragebot on Fri May 29, 2020 at 09:38:00 PM EST
    you seem to be laboring under the delusion that the popular vote has some relation to electing the president so let me try and help you get up to speed.

    The US Constitution charges the Electoral College with electing the president.  Nixon had 301 votes in the Electoral College, Humphry had 191, and Wallace had 46.  If Wallace had not been running most likely his votes would have gone to Nixon.  Even 301 to 191 is a big victory and qualifies as a landslide in my book.

    Maybe you have a different definition of an Electoral College landslide, assuming you understand what the Electoral College is.


    Who has ever (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by MKS on Fri May 29, 2020 at 09:55:03 PM EST
    referred to the 1968 Nixon win as a landslide except for you?  

    Heh, do you realize (none / 0) (#111)
    by MKS on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:13:33 AM EST
    you just admitted that racists are basically Republican?

    Wallace was a segregationist.  And you are saying his votes were basically GOP votes.....

    Not sure you realized you were making this point.


    Heh. He's just stating fact: (none / 0) (#116)
    by leap on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:49:09 AM EST
    the R Party = Racist Party

    Question (none / 0) (#150)
    by Repack Rider on Sat May 30, 2020 at 02:39:02 PM EST
    As you know, Richard Nixon was the first GOP presidential candidate to enlist the aid of a hostile foreign power in order to win an election.

    His conspiracy with the North Vietnamese was followed by Reagan conspiring with Iran, and Trump having full knowledge of the Russian interference that worked perfectly without his assistance.

    How close do you think the 1968 election would have been if Richard Nixon had not been a traitor?

    Bonus question:



    Trump (none / 0) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 29, 2020 at 06:02:02 AM EST
    has to love CNN getting attacked. It sure helps him with the white nationalists which are his base. The rest of the country is just generally horrified.

    I would assume (none / 0) (#25)
    by jmacWA on Fri May 29, 2020 at 07:14:33 AM EST
    that the arrest was at least somewhat predicated on the crew being from CNN... those known purveyors of 'fake news'.

    Didn't say it helps Trump (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 29, 2020 at 06:46:09 AM EST
    And I don't think it does

    I said he loves it.  


    This doesn't help Trump (none / 0) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 29, 2020 at 07:15:18 AM EST
    It's for the 39%

    Twitter restricts new Trump tweet for `glorifying violence'
    `When the looting starts, the shooting starts,' tweeted the President of the United States of America

    I am not promoting violence.  But.

    They are demanding the guy with his knee on Floyd's throat be arrested.  I am with them.  No matter what they do until that happens.

    If they stop this will go like all the others have.

    Enough.  Arrest  the killer and your problems will be solved.

    Easy peasy

    Don't, and buckle up.


    Historically (1.00 / 2) (#37)
    by ragebot on Fri May 29, 2020 at 10:58:30 AM EST
    there are three capital crimes; murder, rape, and arson.  No question with over 50 fires set last night there are lots of arsonists at work.

    It is one thing to to advocate someone being arrested.  Setting buildings on fire is a completely different act.  Attacking firemen trying to put out fires is a completely different act. Breaking into businesses and looting goods and money is a completely different act.

    Almost no one I am aware of is trying to justify LEOs actions in arresting Floyd.  But it seems there are lots of folks trying to justify arson and looting.

    I have little doubt Trump and his minions will flood the airwaves with images of burning buildings and individuals looting businesses.  I have no doubt it will garner Trump lots of votes from swing voters who simply want to go about their normal daily lives.

    CNN is now showing Walz explaining why he called out the National Guard due to the failure of local authorities to maintain normal order.

    I am predicting here and now that Trump will win in 2020 in great part due to pent up rioting.  

    I am also predicting the LEOs will be charged with something.  Lets remember Floyd was convicted of armed robbery and home invasion and served time for it.  If, and that is a big if, the LEOs who took him into custody were aware of his criminal past that would result in them being cautious in dealing with him.  In yesterday's presser there was a claim, now disputed, that there was other evidence.  To some extent this explains why there is a delay in charging and arresting the LEOs.

    Again I would point out even Trump said what happened to Floyd was not acceptable.  There will be action taken against the LEOs.  But in high profile cases it is important to not make mistakes early on that could result in problems prosecuting later on.

    Just as an aside the MSM can only show the Floyd arrest so many times before it becomes old news.  On the other hand new images on a daily basis of arson and looting (not to mention shooting in other cities) will crowd out almost any other news.


    Oh my god (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 29, 2020 at 11:08:02 AM EST
    That's all this is worth

    Just OMG

    and I could really care less about you opinions of my thoughts.

    Just FYI


    Ignore reality all you want (none / 0) (#41)
    by ragebot on Fri May 29, 2020 at 11:22:51 AM EST
    If you think burning down a police station, as well as 50 other buildings, will not result in a call by the majority of voters for order in the streets you are living in a fantasy world.

    The ads write themselves.  Weak dem city governments allow rioters to run wild burning and looting and the National Guard has to be called in.  This can only help Trump.


    What you are saying is (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Repack Rider on Fri May 29, 2020 at 01:47:27 PM EST
    ...if you want to loot something, loot the Treasury, because there are no consequences.

    Looting a Best Buy would be criminal.


    You know what really gets them? (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 29, 2020 at 01:54:33 PM EST
    This worked.  At least in the short term.

    And the next time a cop is on video killing a helpless person begging for their life, what ever community it occurs is will think....

    .....maybe we should arrest his sorry azz BEFORE the fires start.

    This will have "effects".


    I'm sure everyone on your culdesac (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by CST on Fri May 29, 2020 at 02:43:26 PM EST
    Will be clutching their pearls.

    Strange how this logic never seems to apply to the 100,000 people killed by Covid, or the murder of civilians by the police state.


    Certainly (none / 0) (#66)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 29, 2020 at 05:36:39 PM EST
    can't speak for a lot of them but this incident seems to have finally penetrated the minds of some Trumpers I know. I really think it is the combination of Aubery and Floyd within such a short time frame in the news.

    "Reality" - heh (none / 0) (#94)
    by Yman on Fri May 29, 2020 at 10:41:42 PM EST
    Your laughable opinions are about af fat from reality as you can get.  Moreover, your party and its POTUS don't represent "the majority of voters," so don't pretend to speak for them.

    Well, they tried non-violent (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by Chuck0 on Fri May 29, 2020 at 02:32:55 PM EST
    protest (see kneeling during National Anthem - NFL.). That freaked the MAGAts and the orange clown out. They refused to understand. It didn't get their attention. Maybe burning down a city will get their attention. Perhaps burning down Minneapolis is a message from this community that you're not going to murder us anymore. I don't condone, but I certainly understand it.

    I don't know where you studied legal history (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by Peter G on Fri May 29, 2020 at 07:24:30 PM EST
    but I am not aware of any  place or time where "historically there were three capital crimes: murder, rape and arson." At common law (that is, before Anglo-American criminal law was generally codified by legislative action, including at the time of the Founding) there were as many as 300 offenses that constituted "felony," which by definition meant punishable by death, ranging from murder, to treason (very broadly defined), to heresy, to theft of anything valued at more than a shilling. According to the classic 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica, "In 1800 over 200 and in 1819 about 180 crimes were capital. ... [T]here are now only four crimes (other than offences against military law or naval discipline) capitally punishable in England --- high treason, murder, piracy with violence, and destruction of public arsenals and dockyards." As recently as 1965 various American states recognized more than a dozen capital offenses, including treason, robbery, sodomy and burglary.

    ragebot you should take those (none / 0) (#172)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:49:51 PM EST
    thoughts to a right wing website. I think you are delusional on this.  I also think Trump is now toast.

    Please don't spread propoganda here, in the guise of your opinion. it will be quickly shut down -- zapped.


    More (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 29, 2020 at 07:59:26 AM EST
    After President Trump tweeted "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" earlier this morning, Twitter marked the tweet for inciting violence.

    A tweet with the same wording has now been posted to the official White House account.

    White House social media director Dan Scavino tweeted this response: "Twitter is targeting the President of the United States 24/7, while turning their heads to protest organizers who are planning, plotting, and communicating their next moves daily on this very platform. Twitter is full of shi+ - more and more people are beginning to get it."

    Whatever help Trump (none / 0) (#64)
    by KeysDan on Fri May 29, 2020 at 04:47:01 PM EST
    might have gotten (and, I agree with you, little or none) was lost by his incitement to violence tweet and the aftermath. This is not 1968 for other than Republicans.  He, lost the news cycle. And, he would not even take questions at his Rose Garden soiree.

    Btw (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 29, 2020 at 07:19:24 AM EST
    It's not 1968.  

    It is though quite (none / 0) (#173)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:52:58 PM EST
    horrible that so little progress for minority groups , particularly in the criminal justice system, has been made since then. And it's sickening (to me) that the Dems are about to nominate a primary cause of such lack of progress -- the man who either wrote or pushed through Congress the worst criminal justice bills of the last 40 years, from mandatory minimums, to crack penalties, to time restrictions on habeas corpus. We finally get a chance to throw Trump out and we're going to replace him with Biden? The Democrats need an angel, and fast.

    It is. (5.00 / 3) (#177)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 31, 2020 at 08:46:53 AM EST
    It really is.  Two things.

    That comment was more about me thinking that in spite of the similarities there are very big differences from 68.  The biggest probably being media and social media.  This isn't being covered by three networks at 6 in the evening.  It's being covered, across the political spectrum, 24/7.  As with the tech that makes it possible this is both good and bad.  And as with the tech I tend to think in the long run more good than bad.  

    Demonstrations are no longer a chaotic rabble with no leadership once it starts.  This time the cops are not the only ones with a radio and a plan.  I was an activist then so I would never say activists now are more committed or determined or resourceful.  But they are better informed, generally better organized, and even more angry to find us in the exact same place after 50 years of lip service.  

    I think this country is even more on a knife edge than 68.  And as I said.  I was there.  Trump has lit the fuse and is fanning the flames.  And he has been doing it with the presidential megaphone for 4 years.  Johnson or even Nixon never worked as hard to split the country.  He has succeeded.  That's the bad news.  The good news is he is an idiot.  Most of the people still supporting him are idiots. He has no idea what he is doing.  In fact I don't think he gives this subject one earnest thought a day.  He neither understands or cares what he is doing.   He is just doing what he does.  And I agree with you he might as well set himself on fire.  He is toast.

    Now, about Biden.

    I share your pain.  I said from day one he was my last choice.  It really is heartbreaking that in this time this is what we have.
    Why could we not have an Obama NOW?  Well, I honestly think the reason is Obama is part of the reason we are where we are.  I (for the Obama bashers) mean that as no reflection on the man.  He was a good president.  Maybe a great one.  But he was black.  And that, like it or not, created the empty vessel Trump filled with rage and hate and QAnon.  Without Obama there would be no Trump.  
    That said,  I think Biden has been very good the last few days.  He might be a doddering fool but the man understands loss and he is able to talk about it in a way that is such a stark contrast to the Orange Fuhrer that in this moment he might just be the best spokesman.

    Also, in spite of all the talk about the wonderful rainbow that was the early democratic primary IMO we had a bunch of well meaning B teamers.  If there had been a stand out candidate they would have stood out.

    One more thing, just about winning.  Race just became the central issue of this campaign.  The simple truth is Biden has black America.  Whether you and I like it or not.  More than any other candidate.  It's why he won.  It's why he will win.

    My 2.5 cents.


    What's (none / 0) (#181)
    by FlJoe on Sun May 31, 2020 at 10:48:11 AM EST
    up with the skateboarders who keep showing up in the video feeds? I'm not buying for minute that some young white dude in LA is that upset about Floyd's death.

    Worst night yet (none / 0) (#19)
    by ragebot on Thu May 28, 2020 at 10:50:58 PM EST
    Precinct 3 has been set on fire after the station seems to be abandoned by LEOs, seems they left on orders from higher up. Helos showing multiple fires in the area.  On the scene camera shots show empty 24 beer pacts on the ground and reporters saying lots in the crowd are drunk and you can smell pot.  The fire department is making no effort to put out any of the fires on what seem to be orders from higher up.  The pols in Minneapolis seem to have taken the position to back off and let the city burn and the looters loot.

    L.A., Denver, and NYC have had arrests and injuries in protests.  Other protests in Louisville and other cities being reported but there seems to be a real police presence everywhere but L.A.

    Seems this will get worse before it gets better.

    Where is the 2A crowd? (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Repack Rider on Fri May 29, 2020 at 09:27:04 AM EST
    All my life I have heard from the Second Amendment crowd that only armed Americans can protect the country from tyranny. The reasoning usually given is that the government would be unable to withstand a revolution by angry, armed citizens.

    Now brave, UNARMED people are marching all over the country in protest of an egregious act of tyranny, and they are being met by police violence. I want to know why the Second Amendment advocates are not marching WITH them to protect them from more "tyranny."


    You seemed to have missed the part (none / 0) (#38)
    by ragebot on Fri May 29, 2020 at 11:03:27 AM EST
    where the LEOs left Precinct 3 and the arsonists set it on fire; along with 50 other buildings.  In none of these cases were any LEOs trying to prevent arsonists from setting fire.

    In Lousiville the LEOs were met with gun fire from the protesters and seven protesters were hit.  CNN was showing the protesters throwing things at the LEOs.  Not sure what protection you think they need.


    So the protesters (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Repack Rider on Fri May 29, 2020 at 01:50:17 PM EST
    ARE taking advantage of the 2nd Amendment in the way that the advocates promote?

    Why would any 2A advocate have a problem with that?  After all, don't they claim that the 2A gives them the RIGHT AND DUTY to shoot police in defense of freedom?


    Denver is OK (none / 0) (#21)
    by Jeralyn on Fri May 29, 2020 at 12:58:31 AM EST
    there were a lot of police sirens and a lot of protests around Capitol Hill, Colfax, the State Capitol, in lower downtown and on 1-25 20th St and Commons Park. At one point, protesters shut down the highway in both directions.

    Police used pepperballs and tear gas. One protester got hit in the eye and was bleeding, he got bandaged him up at the scene.  

    One of the most unusual events of the night had nothing to do with the police. A driver of a black SUV turned onto 14th Ave, a one way street around  Lincoln when a protester jumped on the hood of his/her car. The driver swerved and the protester fell off the hood onto the ground, and the driver swerved turned his car around (now going the wrong way on the one way street) to run him over. Here is a 23 second video of it. Truly amazing. Even Gov. Jared Polis commented on it:

    bq. I was absolutely shocked by video evidence of a motorist attempting to run over a protestor. Coloradans are better than this.

    Not all of them. Most of the comments to the video support the driver.


    I saw the vid (none / 0) (#40)
    by ragebot on Fri May 29, 2020 at 11:19:04 AM EST
    As a small kid my mother always warned me to not play in the street.  At some point in many protests LEOs had to get involved to clear streets so normal traffic could freely pass.

    The guy who jumped on the hood of the car and fell off quickly jumped up and ran towards the car.  After the car swerved towards him and he was knocked down he again quickly jumped up and chased the car, along with the crowded.

    I have to say when folks block a street they assume some risk since they are not suppose to be there and vehicles may well injure them.

    Just as an aside there was gun fire at the main protest in Denver; as well as in Louisville were folks were injured.  In both cases the gun fire was not from LEOs.


    that's not the truth (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 30, 2020 at 11:05:48 PM EST
    First: No one saw or filmed how he got on the hood of the car. Second, he jumped off the hood and was walking away from her when she turned and ran him over, so that is a lie that he ran after her.  Your eyes can see that part. More lies will get you banned.

    He said in a news interview today that she turned into the crowd, a few were able to escape running to the side but he was right in front of her and didn't think he had time to make it out of the way. She started to accelerate towards him and he jumped on the hood. We can all see what happened next, he gets up and is walking away from her when she turned around and ran him over.

    He just graduated from C.U. Boulder with a degree in with a degree in Integrative Physiology and a minor in Philosophy. He plans to apply to medical school.

    bq. While in college, he was active in the Black Student Alliance and he also runs an organization that feeds the homeless.


    Guy did jump on the hood of the car (none / 0) (#195)
    by ragebot on Sun May 31, 2020 at 06:44:36 PM EST
    unless he was lying in this interview with the local TV station.

    "Some people on the sides, jumped to the sides. I didn't think I had the time, she kept accelerating, to get out to the side. I didn't want to go under her car. So I just put my hands on the hood and launched myself up on the hood," he said.

    To keep from getting run over (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by jondee on Sun May 31, 2020 at 06:58:25 PM EST
    hence "I didn't think I had time".

    The fact that she turned back to try again to run him over, leads one to believe she wasn't just some peace loving, civic-minded person yearning for "law and order".


    Laughably false (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Yman on Sun May 31, 2020 at 07:27:21 AM EST
    Not to mention the fact that these people were protesting, not "playing in the streets".

    But good to know you think drivers can run over people who are in their way.  I'll look for your ridiculous comments next time the "Reopen!" ammosexuals have on of their stupid protests.


    I looks like the driver has a clear path (none / 0) (#180)
    by McBain on Sun May 31, 2020 at 10:31:13 AM EST
    to escape and no rational reason for turning back towards anyone.  Perhaps fear or anger contributed to acting irrational. Whatever the case, bad idea to block traffic, bad idea to try to plow through a protest.

    Here's a video of an altercation between a police cruiser and protestors in New York.


    Just (none / 0) (#22)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 29, 2020 at 05:16:08 AM EST
    watched a entire CNN crew get arrested in Minneapolis. The camera is still live lying in the middle of the street.

    Questions that need answers (none / 0) (#42)
    by ragebot on Fri May 29, 2020 at 11:30:18 AM EST
    In Walz presser a reporter asked since the CNN team was arrested how many arsonists and looters have been arrested; the answer was some but the number was not available.

    My question is who made the decision to vacate Precinct 3 and why there was no police presence in the area.

    Do you think this helps Trump? (none / 0) (#154)
    by MKS on Sat May 30, 2020 at 03:07:32 PM EST
    Good development?

    I think he's talking about (none / 0) (#160)
    by jondee on Sat May 30, 2020 at 05:39:01 PM EST
    the right exploiting the situation by running inflammatory Willie Horton-style ads to scare undecideds into voting Republican. Which is about their speed.

    Split screen (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 29, 2020 at 12:05:41 PM EST

    Playbook: "Campaigns, it is said, are about contrasts. And rarely is a candidate afforded the opportunity Joe Biden has today: the ability to sift through the wreckage and unrest piling up on his opponent's watch in real time."

    "If ever there were an opportunity in this frenzied, crowded, loud and confused media climate for Biden to sear a split-screen image into the minds of Americans, it is today, May 29, 2020 -- 158 days before Election Day. Biden will speak about the unrest in Minneapolis from his home in Delaware sometime early this afternoon, and President Trump will hold a news conference in the White House Rose Garden at 2 p.m."

    Not (none / 0) (#60)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 29, 2020 at 02:59:57 PM EST
    one word about Minneapolis from tRump, not one fkng word.

    China,China,China and fk the WHO and then he stalks off. Sad.


    Absolutely untrue, there was a word (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Peter G on Fri May 29, 2020 at 03:39:17 PM EST
    "If you protest too vigorously, by attacking the City government's or other people's property, then expect us to shoot you down."

    Claire McCaskill (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 29, 2020 at 12:13:24 PM EST
    Who is a former prosecutor just said she thought the delay in the release of the autopsy and blood work was because they were looking for health issue or something in his blood to blame for his death.

    Apparently (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 29, 2020 at 12:26:12 PM EST
    They didn't find anything

    Derek Chauvin arrested (none / 0) (#46)
    by ragebot on Fri May 29, 2020 at 12:19:18 PM EST
    according to FOX news.  looking for a link

    And, then, (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by KeysDan on Sun May 31, 2020 at 11:35:59 AM EST
    Kellie, wife of Derek Chauvin filed for divorce.

    link (none / 0) (#47)
    by ragebot on Fri May 29, 2020 at 12:20:08 PM EST
    FOX news reporting (none / 0) (#51)
    by ragebot on Fri May 29, 2020 at 01:39:57 PM EST
    Chauvin and Floyd both worked as bouncers at the same bar.  No confirmation that they knew each other or if there may have been bad blood between them.

    That was first reported on MSNBC last night. (none / 0) (#63)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 29, 2020 at 04:40:41 PM EST
    Minneapolis City Councilwoman Andrea Jenkins, who also serves as the Council's vice president, told the network that the two men both worked as bouncers at El Nuevo Rodeo Club:

    "They were coworkers for a very long time. George Floyd worked at that restaurant, so did Officer Chauvin. They were both bouncers at that restaurant for seventeen years."

    Councilwoman Jenkins' statement has since been confirmed by the club's former owner, Maya Santamaria, who sold it in 2019. However, Ms. Santamaria further speculated that because Floyd worked indoor security while Chauvin worked outside the club, there was little or no indication that the two were actual acquaintances, either casual or otherwise.



    ... for his provocative tweets last night, one of which was flagged by Twitter last night for "glorifying violence."

    I saw some chatter on cable news this morning that when Trump tweeted "when the looting starts, the shooting starts," he was quoting Gov. George Wallace during the 1968 presidential campaign. However, there's no evidence that Wallace ever said it although to be fair, he did offer somewhat similar sentiments in Sept. 1967:

    "Bam, shoot 'em dead on the spot! Shoot to kill if anyone throws a rock at a policeman or throws a Molotov cocktail. Don't shoot any children, just shoot the adult standing beside the kid that throws the rock. That may not prevent the burning and the looting, but it sure will stop it once it starts."

    The actual quote belongs to then-longtime Miami (FL) Police Chief Walter Headley from Dec. 1967, an old retrograde white supremacist from the Jim Crow era (he had been chief since 1948) who clearly had it in for "Negro Thugs":

    "I've let the word filter down that when the looting starts, the shooting starts. These are my orders. Not three days after, but now. This is war. I meant it, every bit of it."

    Either way, Trump's in cahoots with some rather dubious historical company.

    Rioters eating their own (none / 0) (#69)
    by ragebot on Fri May 29, 2020 at 06:52:58 PM EST
    Rioters in Atlanta have damaged the front door of CNN headquarters and are smashing windows in the building.  White House is on lockdown as big crowd is protesting there.

    This will get out of hand.

    One can only hope. (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Chuck0 on Fri May 29, 2020 at 07:23:18 PM EST
    Americans should have been on the White House lawn 2 years ago with pitchforks and torches.

    This country has been out of hand (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by CST on Fri May 29, 2020 at 07:40:54 PM EST
    For quite some time now.

    Add unprecedented unemployment, 100,000 people dead, and as soon as people start going outside again, police violence and blatant displays of racism.

    And then we have people crying about some broken windows.


    Their own.. (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by jondee on Fri May 29, 2020 at 07:47:18 PM EST
    you're suggesting that CNN has been encouraging people to riot?

    That's a sentiment without evidence worthy of your orange baboon hero.


    This is something (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 29, 2020 at 08:39:15 PM EST
    you Trumpers should be cheering shouldn't you? Trump has gone after CNN time and again. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Trumpers were using this to harass and terrorize CNN and their employees. How many times has Trump attacked CNN and call them fake news?

    Sounds to me (none / 0) (#82)
    by Repack Rider on Fri May 29, 2020 at 08:53:53 PM EST
    Like people who have no philosophical reason to be there enjoy the diversion of the REAL protesters to loot.

    If you're gonna loot, loot the Treasury.  Looting a Best Buy would be a crime.


    Watching (none / 0) (#74)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 29, 2020 at 08:04:36 PM EST
    live protests from Minneapolis and it looks to be 90% white.

    Every single person (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by CST on Fri May 29, 2020 at 08:14:11 PM EST
    I've seen smashing windows - including CNN in Atlanta - has been a white guy.

    White (none / 0) (#76)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 29, 2020 at 08:19:17 PM EST
    guys with skateboards are pretty common among the crowds.

    Very interesting. Can you tell whether (none / 0) (#78)
    by Peter G on Fri May 29, 2020 at 08:40:52 PM EST
    they are showing legitimate anger and solidarity, or are acting as antifa-style provocateurs, or are perhaps even acting deliberately as agents provocateurs to bring discredit on the demonstrations?

    Looked (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 29, 2020 at 09:08:00 PM EST
    mostly peaceful in Minneapolis, the protests looked earnest but not particularly angry, hopefully that area has calmed down some.

    Most of the protests I've seen across the country tonight seem similar but with more pockets of violence, I am sure there are provocateurs of all stripes among the crowd but there is a vibe of lots of young people blowing off steam after a long spring of quarantine.



    Then (none / 0) (#84)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 29, 2020 at 09:19:00 PM EST
    again maybe not
    Protesters have overrun a police station in New York City, according to a CNN law enforcement analyst.

    "NYPD source informs me 88 Pct in Brooklyn just been overrun," former FBI Agent James Gagliano reported Friday evening.

    Haven't watched (none / 0) (#79)
    by MKS on Fri May 29, 2020 at 08:45:51 PM EST
    the news for a couple of days.....What a lifetime of events I am behind on.

    No (none / 0) (#97)
    by ragebot on Sat May 30, 2020 at 03:25:53 AM EST
    Riots are all pretty much the same, grainy night time images of building burning and looters walking away with arms or carts full of stuff.

    The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. (none / 0) (#92)
    by Zorba on Fri May 29, 2020 at 10:28:43 PM EST
    "A riot is the language of the unheard."

    Also this: (none / 0) (#99)
    by leap on Sat May 30, 2020 at 08:58:50 AM EST
    "Racism isn't getting worse, it's getting filmed." - Will Smith

    African proverb (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 09:34:31 AM EST
    "A child that is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"

    Seems tonight was worse than last night (none / 0) (#96)
    by ragebot on Sat May 30, 2020 at 03:22:42 AM EST
    Just watched Walz presser.  The largest mobilization of Minn history was not able to deal with the rioters.  He said he was simply out manned.  

    Not only could the FD not keep up with putting fires set by arsonists the FD had to have National Guard troops protect them from small arms fire when they did arrive on scene.  Walz said there was an intel failure since charging a LEO was suppose to calm things down and reduce the number of rioters.  Instead the numbers increased with something like 185 cases of arson; too many for the FD to deal with.

    Walz says he is calling up all the National Guard members he can.  He also said he had seen where Trump put the military on alert and he would likely ask for them to help put down the large number of rioters expected.  Walz was not optimistic about this ending any time soon based on the intel he was getting; certainly not by the weekend.  He said he is getting intel about cartels and out side agitators were taking advantage of the chaos.  When asked about white supremacist involvement he said there was no hard evidence to support that.

    Of interest to me is when asked why there seemed to be no police or National Guard around Walz said they were out in all the force they could muster.  The thing was they were deployed away from what I will call the real action to protect high priority targets like power plants, Interstate highways, some police stations, and choke points to get to the burbs.  The result was that the rioters hit easy targets and avoided areas where LEOs and the NG were posted.

    Bottom line is Walz said he does not have enough warm bodies to deal with the number of rioters in his streets and needs help from the feds.

    You need (5.00 / 3) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 30, 2020 at 06:44:37 AM EST
    to start taking responsibility for conservatives and mostly Trump fanning the flames of this. The guys that murdered Ahmad Aubery here in GA were Trumpers. Trump has attacked football players using PEACEFUL protest.

    Lots of us predicted all this when Trump was running in 2016. It was easy to see this was the road we were going down as a country. When you elect a white supremacist there are consequences for everybody.  


    arsonists, looters, dems, pubs... (none / 0) (#100)
    by desertswine on Sat May 30, 2020 at 09:02:28 AM EST
    intel, feds.  Must be a slow night in St. Petersburg.

    Wow (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 09:09:13 AM EST
    That sounds just terrifying.

    Maybe in the future more thought will be given to the wisdom of public executions of helpless restrained people and failing that the wisdom of communities allowing it to happen.


    Every one in the presser (none / 0) (#106)
    by ragebot on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:03:54 AM EST
    said what happened last night had nothing to do with George Floyd; it was looting and arson.  Today they are saying it was all outside agitators.

    It is interesting that Walz and others keep talking about getting intel from the feds that seem to back up the claim that while there are protestors who are legit the problem they are facing is not from them; rather the problem is criminals who are seeking to take advantage of the chaos.  He went on to say the rioters were well organized and were using radios to communicate where to go and what to do to cause maximum problems.  

    Walz and Frey both asked the legit protesters and citizens to rat out the out of towners who were causing trouble.  Not to mention there will be a curfew tonight and Walz specifically said stay home and don't protest.

    Maybe it is time for the legit protestors realize they are being used by offering cover to allow a riot to happen.


    This country (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:05:33 AM EST
    Sits on looted land and was built with looted labor.

    One more thing (none / 0) (#109)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:07:26 AM EST
    Maybe it is time for the legit protestors realize they are being used by offering cover to allow a riot to happen.

    Maybe who exactly is being used by who is not as clear as you think.


    Geez, people are po'd. (none / 0) (#104)
    by Chuck0 on Sat May 30, 2020 at 09:57:57 AM EST
    Who'd have thunk it?

    An interesting phenomenon (none / 0) (#191)
    by Repack Rider on Sun May 31, 2020 at 05:28:48 PM EST
    ...has developed around the protests.

    In some cities, the police are marching WITH the protesters.

    And there is no violence.


    Like (none / 0) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 31, 2020 at 05:58:05 PM EST

    Mid-Michigan NOW
    As cities across the country burned Genesee County Sheriff Chris Swanson embraced protesters and marched with them on Miller Road in Flint Twp.

    Excellent tactic. The police chiefs of our county (none / 0) (#194)
    by Peter G on Sun May 31, 2020 at 06:11:29 PM EST
    just northwest of Philadelphia issued a public statement condemning the behavior of the Minneapolis police. (Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to find a link for it.) I have never seen such a thing before.

    They are right about one thing (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 09:25:36 AM EST
    This is no longer just about George Floyd.

    It about 4 years of threats, lies and the coddling of white supremacy.  People have had enough.  After years of listening to soft pink entitled a-holes who are afraid to show their stupid face without a long gun over their shoulder threaten us about how they were going to "take to the streets" if we didn't all love the Dear Leader we are seeing real people take to the streets.
    And even without guns they have the police on the run.

    As depressing as this is it gives me hope.  Because know this soft pink redneck idiots, this is nothing compared to what you will see if Trump tries to use his power to subvert democracy.

    Consider it a warning.

    They just said (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:01:24 AM EST
    They estimate 20% of state residents involved in orotests

    Would like to see a source for the 20% claim (none / 0) (#110)
    by ragebot on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:12:53 AM EST
    LEOs in Minneapolis said 20 arrests so far and 15-20 in St. Paul when pressed.  Frey basically said the LEOS would not arrest looters.  Walz keeps claiming the real trouble makers are all outside agitators and not from either city.

    A couple of nights ago Walz said it was peaceful till the local leaders went home around 11:00PM or so and then the outside agitators took over.  Everyone at the presser kept pleading with the residents to rat out the outside agitators.  Specifically asked residents if knew where they were sleeping to turn them in.

    I have no idea how anyone would know the breakdown of outside agitators verses locals; it is not like someone is checking IDs.


    I believe the (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:16:32 AM EST
    Governor said it

    I saw the claim that (none / 0) (#114)
    by ragebot on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:41:55 AM EST
    around 35-40 people were arrested and the claim none of them were from Minn.  I saw literally hundreds of people who were committing crimes.  The FD had at least 185 fires to deal with so arsonists were busy.  But given that the governor said he and the mayor both agreed there were not enough LEOs to control everything and for what ever reason the LEOs were stationed away from the hot spots how would anyone even know how many people were involved.

    Trump was bashed, and rightly so, for his claims about the size of the crowd at his inauguration.  What is good for the goose is good for the gander.


    MSNBC (none / 0) (#119)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:59:49 AM EST
    Ok misleading banner perhaps (none / 0) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 11:05:11 AM EST
    I think that was part of this

    "Shaken by another night of chaos that overwhelmed law enforcement, Gov. Tim Walz (D) said Saturday he will fully mobilize the National Guard to combat what he called a `tightly controlled' group of outside agitators, some of them from out of state, who have turned city streets into scenes of looting and arson," the Minneapolis Star Tribune reports.

    Said Walz: "Our cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul are under assault... an organized attempt to destabilize civil society."

    "Walz said as many as 80% of the people causing destruction and fire in the cities could be from elsewhere."

    So 20% of the protesters not of the state.  Fair enough.

    If I was leading this I would say stay home tonight.  Let the nazis and the cops go at it.

    That's just me.  I would not presume to give advise.  


    Some real numbers (none / 0) (#174)
    by ragebot on Sat May 30, 2020 at 11:03:51 PM EST
    from a FOIA request by a local NBC TV station.  Most of the arrests are locals.  One possible out of state white supremacists link out of 69 arrests.  Makes the claim that outside agitators being involved questionable; or alternatively that the outside agitators are very clever and avoid arrest.

    Minn is a special case (none / 0) (#113)
    by ragebot on Sat May 30, 2020 at 10:32:48 AM EST
    Walz keeps saying intel he is getting tells him the problems are caused by outside agitators.  The problems in other cities are basically nothing compared to what is happening there.

    I am not convinced there are that many folks who are willing to take to the streets.  More importantly there has been no real effort in Minn to stop the rioting.  In Atlanta last night problems were quickly shut down with a real show of force while in Minn the LEOs basically ran away.  When a truck with loud speakers drives up and someone says there is a curfew and then drives off one has to wonder how serious it is.  On the other hand when a armored vehicle drives up and breaks up a crowd with tear gas there is no doubt who means business.

    It is all too easy to take to the streets when the protestors and outside agitators vastly out number the LEOs and the local pols basically have telegraphed there will be no effort to stop looting and arson.  But everywhere else but in Minn the number of folks in the streets has not been all that big compared to the number of LEOs with the result that the LEOs were easily able to control things.

    Bottom line is when local pols take the position to not enforce the laws about looting and arson; not to mention not having the numbers to do much anyway you get chaos; but when local pols take a position to enforce laws you get order.


    Trump to English translation (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 11:09:27 AM EST
    He is scared shi+less

    President Trump thanked the "very cool" Secret Service agents for protecting the White House on Friday night against demonstrators protesting the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police.

    Said Trump: "I was inside, watched every move, and couldn't have felt more safe."

    He added that had protesters would "have been greeted with the most vicious dogs, and most ominous weapons."

    He also bragged that officers were quickly replaced "with fresh agents, like magic" quoting one officer telling him, "We put the young ones on the front line, sir, they love it, and... good practice."

    The Mayor (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 11:13:08 AM EST

    on Saturday pushed back on President Trump's claim that the city's police force didn't assist the Secret Service during protests the previous night at the White House.

    "My police department will always protect DC and all who are in it whether I agree with them (such as those exercising their First Amendment Right) or those I don't (namely, @realdonaldtrump)...," Bowser tweeted.

    "While he hides behind his fence afraid/alone, I stand w/ people peacefully exercising their First Amendment Right after the murder of #GeorgeFloyd & hundreds of years of institutional racism."

    So now (none / 0) (#125)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 30, 2020 at 11:44:07 AM EST
    it's not quite dogs and fire hoses but dogs and weapons. He's really stuck in 1960 George Wallace/modern day Pat Buchanan world it seems.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#126)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:03:31 PM EST
    I've noticed a change in the mood outside.  As Trump gets more frightened and angry I think his hard core supporters are doing the same.  I am seeing open hostility to, for example, masks for the first time.

    It's a pretty small group but it's unmistakable.  I wonder if you have seen this.

    As far as that, yeah.  It's great to know what a pathological liar he is.  If he is actually saying he "couldn't have felt more safe" everyone knows it because he was shi++ing his pants and sucking his thumb.  

    Screaming at anyone listening that the mayor should be sending DC police to protect him.


    I have not (none / 0) (#134)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:33:46 PM EST
    seen much verbal resistance to masks but I have seen a good many people not wearing them.

    Just today a Trumper said that the black CNN reporter being arrested was something the MPD did to make Trump look bad. Another told me that Cuomo shut down NY to hurt Trump in November. The variation of every story coming from them is Trump is the victim of some nefarious person or operation. Then you can get the whole globalists want to bring him down nuts too.

    Sadly I have seen some people FINALLY get what has been going on. I have seen people still screaming about the football players. They still think the football players were protesting the military.


    Yes agreed (none / 0) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 01:45:03 PM EST
    Many, most even, are getting it.  I think that makes them even crazier.

    Shi+less (none / 0) (#197)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 31, 2020 at 07:25:14 PM EST
    He said that he was never even ascared. (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by desertswine on Sun May 31, 2020 at 10:07:58 PM EST
    Mr. Trump remained cloistered inside, periodically sending out Twitter messages like "LAW & ORDER!"

    Have to say (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 12:17:36 PM EST
    The Governor and Lt Governor, speaking now, seem to actually talking TO people and not at people.

    They are doing pretty good job of making sure the issue of violent white supremacists is not conflated with legitimate protests.

    The Idiot Trump... (none / 0) (#142)
    by desertswine on Sat May 30, 2020 at 01:30:23 PM EST
    on his way to the helicopter to go to Florida, blamed Antifa and radical left bad people (for Mindianapolis).  

    For the (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 01:44:01 PM EST


    It will almost be fun watching him try to take all the credit.  Unless it explodes on the launchpad.  Then not.


    Got (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by FlJoe on Sat May 30, 2020 at 03:00:31 PM EST
    a interesting launch story to tell.

    One early evening in the mid 70s I was living on beachside, me and my brothers were out in the front yard throwing the frisbee. Suddenly the sky lit up and soon we saw the missle streaking into the sky. It was an unannounced test of a sub launched ICBM.

    The timing was perfect, just turned dark but the missile caught the sun when it reached altitude, nothing, the launch was pretty(solid fueled rockets are just a giant sparkler) but nothing really spectacular.

    What was really weird was the con trail it left behind, fluorescent blue in last rays of the sun. Soon the curlicues stated to form letters in near perfect script(at least by my standards), and suddenly the words were perfectly clear "Beware Earth", I sht you not, no hallucinogens involved.


    Well, that is interesting. (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by desertswine on Sat May 30, 2020 at 03:16:00 PM EST
    Just (none / 0) (#146)
    by FlJoe on Sat May 30, 2020 at 02:16:38 PM EST
    had a TS pass thru here, it's clearing up but doubt I will be able to get an eyeball on it from my front yard.

    The trajectory is to the NE away from me and those Falcons are not that bright any way.


    I think CNN (none / 0) (#147)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 02:24:51 PM EST
    Screwed up the launch coverage.

    I was able to switch over to MSNBC and rewind or I would have missed it.


    I was watching CNN too (none / 0) (#152)
    by desertswine on Sat May 30, 2020 at 02:54:06 PM EST
    and they did screw it up.

    Nope (none / 0) (#148)
    by FlJoe on Sat May 30, 2020 at 02:26:06 PM EST
    too cloudy but I did hear it.

    Weirdly the audio feed on CNN of the countdown was 20-30 seconds behind the actual launch. They had a shot of the vehicle well clear of the pad whole they were still counting down.


    Yes yes (none / 0) (#149)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 02:28:47 PM EST
    The totally f'ed it up.  Hilarious

    See previous


    The REENTRY CAM (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat May 30, 2020 at 02:44:40 PM EST
    Really is amazing

    Antifa (none / 0) (#179)
    by RCBadger on Sun May 31, 2020 at 09:48:01 AM EST
    Andy Ngo, who is a conservative journalist, has done a lot of work about Antifa violence and the general refusal of public officials to do anything about it.  

    ITA with Bret Weinstein (of Evergreen State College fame) who says that he doesn't agree with or like everything Andy does, but he was prescient about what inaction towards Antifa would lead to.

    Obviously, if Trump is claiming that it's only far leftwing nutjobs and Antifa that's responsible for the violence, he's wrong.


    Hawaiian shirts? Really? (none / 0) (#157)
    by Chuck0 on Sat May 30, 2020 at 03:30:44 PM EST
    They have to go and besmirch my trademark sartorial choice for summer by associating Hawaiian shirts with the right wing "boogaloo"?

    I am just hearing about this on the news over the last couple of days. MSNBC pointed out some heavily armed individuals wearing Hawaiian shirts in Louisville.

    I have been noted for my loud and colorful shirts for years. When I was a typesetter for the Del Mar News Press (Del Mar, CA) many, many years ago, the editor said I should be arrested for sight pollution.

    This is mildly upsetting to hear about these nutball's clothing choice. I don't want to be associated with them. In my area of PA, it is certainly a possibility. Of course I don't parade about with bandoliers and an AR-15. Maybe that will get me a pass.

    Is this the Idiot Trump's Reichstag Fire? (none / 0) (#159)
    by desertswine on Sat May 30, 2020 at 04:31:55 PM EST
    I fear that they're preparing to make a move.

    "In many places, it appears the violence is planned, organized, and driven by anarchistic and far-left extremists, using Antifa-like tactics, many of whom travel from out of state to promote the violence."  - AG Barr

    "In that regard, it is a federal crime to cross state lines or to use interstate facilities to incite or participate in violent rioting. We will enforce these laws."  -  Barr

    "It's ANTIFA and the Radical Left. Don't lay the blame on others!" -  the Idiot Trump

    I'm getting worried.


    Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms (none / 0) (#158)
    by KeysDan on Sat May 30, 2020 at 04:04:00 PM EST
    addresses protestors.  The Mayor as well as the police chief, Erika Shields, are impressive. Mayor Bottoms gives a heartfelt plea to protestors and a chastisement to houligans.

    Different Minn tonight (none / 0) (#164)
    by ragebot on Sat May 30, 2020 at 08:56:44 PM EST
    Instead of announcing a curfew on loud speakers on a truck and driving off the LEOs have blasted the crowd with tear gas to drive them away from the Precinct 5.  They are not messing around as they are using flash bangs as well.  LEOs advancing on the crowd.

    Huge difference from last night and the night before. Looks like the pols have made the decision to not put up with any foolishness.  Now LEOs are also breaking up the crowd from behind as well with tear gas.  LEOs have upped their game.

    On the other hand it does not look so good in some of the other cities.

    Looks like (none / 0) (#165)
    by Repack Rider on Sat May 30, 2020 at 09:00:07 PM EST
    ...the police WANT violence.

    You fail (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by ragebot on Sat May 30, 2020 at 09:04:31 PM EST
    to understand what the meaning of curfew means.

    CNN crew hit with rubber bullets (none / 0) (#166)
    by ragebot on Sat May 30, 2020 at 09:03:41 PM EST
    as they are running scared with the crowd from the LEOs who are advancing towards the crowd.

    Rep Omar is towing the party line about bad elements being responsible for the rioting and the need for peace.

    Still problems in NYC and LA with fires burning.


    MSNBC is having technical problems (none / 0) (#168)
    by ragebot on Sat May 30, 2020 at 09:08:33 PM EST
    on scene and studio cameras fail with audio and they switch to commercials.

    FOX and CNN still reporting both on scene and in studio.