The Underinformed Masses Who Put Us All At Risk

Thank you Governor Jared Polis for being such a strong leader and positive example for all Coloradans during this crisis. I have watched most of your press conferences and I wish that public officials in all parts of the country cared as much about their fellow citizens as you do.

The far right, especially those posing as libertarians in cities protesting "stay at home" orders have their head up their as*. Northern and rural Michigan are as far apart politically as you can get from Detroit and the surrounding urban areas where thousands of people are dying. Think Terry Nichols country (since it is the anniversary of the OKC bombing today). [More..]

As for the throngs of people ignoring advice of the CDC, medical and scientific experts to roam the beaches and swim in packs in Jacksonville, FL because their Trump-puppet Governor says it's okay, how about if when you get sick you pay for your own damn testing and respirators -- and those of the people you had contact with who later come down with covid-19?

It's unsettling, to say the least, that these underinformed people and their unleader with a desk in the oval office, albeit for different reasons, cannot see the forest through the trees. Donald Trump doesn't care about freedom or any individuals outside his family. He just wants people back at work so he can falsely claim that his administration didn't hold court over the worst economy collapse in U.S. history. The realization that he will likely go down as the worst and most inept occupant of the oval office in modern history probably makes him apopleptic.

As for the residents of rural and upper Michigan and Jacksonville, FL, maybe they just can't stand being with their families or are uncomfortable being alone and want out of the house. Is it just a coincidence that when looking at the beach pictures, almost all of them are white, just like the people who attend Trump rallies? How many of them really care about going back to work? They are acting like they are on vacation. Shame on them. Their conduct will just result in the disease sticking around much longer than it would otherwise.

Please, ignore these ignoramuses and focus on the advice from good leaders like Colorado governor Jared Polis. Listen to the tragic stories told by the medical workers of people dying without being able to see their loved ones and families who are saying goodbye via Facetime.

Go over to Broadway actor Nick Cordero's wife Amanda' Instagram page and leave some good wishes and play his song. Before contracting coronavirus, he was young and in good health. He's now been in the ICU at Cedars-Sinai in LA for three weeks. He had breathing and kidney problems and blood pressure problems. He and his wife have a two year old son and had just moved to LA from New York so he could take a role in a new production of Rock of Ages. You may remember from his Broadway role in "A Bronx Tale." And even if you've never heard of him, his story is compelling and frightening. His wife Amanda says:

Although everything went smoothly after Cordero, 41, was initially put on the [breathing] machine, his health then took a turn.

“I got a phone call at 2:30 in the morning, they needed my consent to put him on dialysis to assist with his kidneys,” Kloots said. “Now he’s on a ventilator, dialysis and this ECMO machine.”

“We were waiting again and this afternoon we got a phone call that things were really moving in the right direction and that his life was being saved, which was huge. And we all kind of celebrated for a minute until we got a phone call shortly right after saying one of the cannulas for the ECMO was stopping blood flow to his right leg and they had to go into immediate surgery to save the blood flow to his leg,” she added.

Yesterday they amputated his right leg. Amanda has not seen her husband in weeks. She gets all her info by telephone.

A 41 year old actor and dancer having his leg amputated while he's unconscious and won't even know about it until he comes out of his coma? A devoted wife with a toddler in a new city who hasn't been allowed into the hospital in the weeks he's been there, but has to make the decision for him of whether to approve his leg amputation?

This disease is a nightmare, and not just for people over 65.

Listen to the scientists, not the politicians. We need testing and tracing. We need people to stay at home. People should wear masks in public, not for themselves, but to minimize spreading the gunk from their mouths and noses into the air where it might infect others, even if they have no symptoms.

Tell stories of the pandemic's heroes and victims, not the misguided, underinformed selfish supporters of Donald Trump. What goes around will come around for them, eventually. It always does.

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    The 25th anniversary today of April 19, 1995 (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by Peter G on Sun Apr 19, 2020 at 07:18:30 PM EST
    the truck bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building. As most members of the TalkLeft community know, our hostess, Jeralyn, was a key participant in the defense team at trial for Timothy McVeigh, who was convicted of -- and eventually executed for --  carrying out that bombing. Presenting an effective and ethical defense in such a case is a career-defining contribution in a professional life dedicated to standing up for the rights of all. Only if the "worst" defendants in the "worst" cases can have the benefit of a dedicated defense will anyone be protected against the power that the government wields in criminal cases. I am thinking of you, J. Proud to be called your friend.

    Jeralyn's task was a thankless ... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Apr 19, 2020 at 09:58:48 PM EST
    ... and frankly unappreciated one, given the tragic magnitude of the Oklahoma City atrocity. Nevertheless, she performed a valuable and I daresay patriotic service to her country, for those very reasons already stated so eloquently by you. It's certainly no fault of hers that she had a right-wing fanatic for a client, an otherwise bright and affable young man who was consumed by his own rage, and was foolishly determined to martyr himself on behalf of his own grievously misguided cause.

    I apologize for not mentioning (none / 0) (#24)
    by Peter G on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 10:44:09 AM EST
    as I should have: 168 killed, including many children.

    Over 41,000 dead and climbing... (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by desertswine on Sun Apr 19, 2020 at 08:29:51 PM EST
    this is the Trump and Republican legacy.  A few days without work and thousands crush the food banks;  this is our strong economy.

    I read that upward of 70% of Americans ... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Apr 19, 2020 at 10:09:15 PM EST
    ... had less than $500 in savings when the pandemic struck. If that's true, then ours was truly a Potemkin-style economy, a increasingly ramshackle façade of universal prosperity in which the only ones who were ultimately fooled by its illusion were its own primary architects and financial beneficiaries.

    There are more (none / 0) (#25)
    by ragebot on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 11:50:45 AM EST
    economic illiterates than political illiterates.  While there are lots of reasons for this most Americans have no knowledge of economics or how it works.  I can remember in the 9th grade my Dad was in a book club and got a book "https://www.amazon.com/Worldly-Philosophers-Lives-Economic-Thinkers/dp/067163318X/ref=sr_1_2?crid=4 GOHQ25HIBC1&dchild=1&keywords=the+worldly+philosophers+by+robert+heilbroner&qid=15874013 15&s=books&sprefix=the+worldly+%2Caps%2C174&sr=1-2".  After reading the book my Dad had a sit down talk with me and in the end forbid me from reading any more books about economics because it depressed me so much.  There is a good reason economics is known as the dismal science.  The bottom line is that there is more demand for goods and services than the supply in the aggerate so not everyone will get what they want/need.  On a more optimistic note while US citizens have little savings they are light years ahead of most of the rest of the world in terms of their economic well being.

    That's mighty cold comfort right now. (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 06:41:01 PM EST
    ragebot: "[W]hile US citizens have little savings they are light years ahead of most of the rest of the world in terms of their economic well being."

    That blunt fact of the matter is that while the average American worker has lost earning power over the last 50 years, the wealthy have made out quite nicely.

    Prior to the crisis, many people were living paycheck to paycheck and had incurred significant amounts of debt. And now, they're underwater. Many who've lost their jobs can't even pay their rent, and they're waiting in line for hours at food pantries. I don't think they care whether or not they're better off than residents of Mumbai or Zimbabwe.

    The Gilded Age was unsustainable in the late 19th century, and eventually resulted in the Panic of 1893 and a subsequent 4-year economic depression that was both widespread and deep. I don't know why we thought recreating its conditions would somehow lead to a different outcome this time around.



    Interesting you mention (none / 0) (#56)
    by ragebot on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 07:16:12 PM EST
    Mumbai or Zimbabwe as examples of places worse off than the US.  Plenty of Mexicans (and citizens of Central and South America) are in far worse shape than Americans and until recently flooded into the US for better economic opportunities.

    But you seem to have missed the bigger point of my post; that there will never be a big enough supply goods and services to meet the demand for them.

    I do agree that the middle class has taken a big hit while a small number of the wealthy have done better than they probably should have.  But a lot of this has to do with globalization.  Jobs in the US that use to pay well have been shipped to lower wage locations like Mexico and Asia.  Something Trump has railed about endlessly and something those who vote for him believe.

    One of the bigger results of the corona virus pandemic will likely be many of those jobs will return to the US.  Along with stricter border controls; another big Trump issue.  Whatever you think of Trump's policies it is clear he claims he want's to rebuild the middle class.


    tRump (5.00 / 4) (#62)
    by FlJoe on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 08:31:34 PM EST
    "claims he want's to rebuild the middle class." and you believe him? His tax plan screwed a lot of the middle class while stuffing the pockets of him and his corporate buddies and did nothing to restore good paying jobs. His tariffs have also done nothing except raise prices and put the heat on exporters, especially farmers.

    Of course a small(?) number of wealthy "did better", they are the ones who gamed the system, sacrificing American workers so they could pad their profits. Trump can rail against that all he wants but he will not really do sht about it (nothing effective at least). Of course his base, and apparently you, keep lapping it up.


    Look at what Trump does, not what he says. (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 21, 2020 at 08:36:23 PM EST
    Here is a short history of confirmed coronavirus cases in the United States over the last 90 days:
    • Jan. 21: 1 case, 0 deaths
    • Feb. 21: 31 cases, 0 deaths
    • Mar. 21: 25,772 cases, 311 deaths
    • Apr. 21: 824,698 cases, 45,297 deaths (as of 3:30pm HST)
    This is what a logarithmic increase looks like. This is why scientists and public health officials were sounding the alarm at the beginning of the year.

    While I don't fault President Trump for the pandemic itself, I do hold him responsible for the epic and tragic failure of the federal government's near-impotent response once the virus made its way to our country, despite being warned repeatedly about it.

    Donald Trump swore an oath as president to defend the country. Not only did he fail to do so, he's failed in horrific fashion. The still-unfolding consequences of that failure are going to be devastating.

    Apparently not content with having allowed a serious problem to devolve into a nationwide tragedy, Trump's administration now seems hellbent on turning the COVID-19 pandemic into a full-blown national catastrophe. Seriously, what the f*ck is wrong with these people?

    Speaking for myself only, I am going to work very hard over the next seven months to ensure that he and members of his administration are held to account for their criminal misconduct, neglect and conduct, first at the ballot box and then afterward, hopefully, in a court of law.

    Pay very close attention to what they actually do, ragebot, not merely to what they say. They may talk like they're on your side, but truth be told, they don't give any more of a rat's a$$ about you as a conservative than they do about me as a liberal.

    This isn't about politics. In fact, it was never about politics. First and foremost, the Trumps and their cronies are grifters and given the opportunity, grifters will grift a naïve mark regardless of political or religious affiliation. Because when you're a grifter, your existence depends upon your ability and willingness to identify and exploit another's weakness for your own ends. That's what you do.

    Don't be played for a chump.


    Even more interesting (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Apr 21, 2020 at 09:20:50 PM EST
    The fact that the first cases of Covid 19 were reported in the US and South Korea ON THE SAME DAY

    Today South Korea has 10,694 cases (just checked)

    The US has 824,698 cases.

    Will be break 1 million by the weekend?

    USA!  USA!  USA!


    Not logarithmic, but exponential ... (none / 0) (#93)
    by Erehwon on Sat Apr 25, 2020 at 09:17:42 PM EST
    And you decide whether who is Trump and who are his enablers: "... looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

    And some animals (none / 0) (#102)
    by Peter G on Sun Apr 26, 2020 at 10:35:25 PM EST
    are more equal than others.

    Maybe if we are lucky (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 19, 2020 at 10:34:10 PM EST
    A small part of the legacy will be once and for all showing all the MFA skeptics how unwise it is to have your health care tied to your job.

    No matter how good it or the job is.


    Op Ed (none / 0) (#19)
    by Coral on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 09:57:16 AM EST
    Bernie has a good op-ed on this in today's NY Times.

    P Wire (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 01:56:06 PM EST
    White House Scrambling to Cover Virus Treatment

    April 20, 2020 at 2:05 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 94 Comments

    Politico: "The White House pledged over two weeks ago to cover coronavirus treatment for uninsured Americans -- but the administration still doesn't have a plan for how to do it. Trump officials are still grappling with key questions about how exactly to implement the treatment fund, including how to determine if a patient qualifies for the new federal dollars."

    "Adding to the challenge, they're still figuring out how to divvy up funding that hospitals and physicians say is desperately needed. The delay in setting up the fund indicates the difficulty building a massive entitlement on the fly amid an unprecedented crisis. And there was little time to fully vet the plan before President Trump announced it earlier this month."

    131 years ago this week ... (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Apr 19, 2020 at 09:28:41 PM EST
    ... on April 15, 1889, a willful and headstrong Jesuit priest named Damien De Veuster, aka Father Damien and St. Damien of Molokai, died quietly in Kalawao on Molokai's isolated Kalaupapa peninsula, where for 16 years he had ministered to the needs of thousands of desperate leprosy-afflicted residents and through sheer force of character and his own manual labor, had forged out of chaos a functioning community where none had heretofore existed.

    To all those white-wing sissy ninnies out there who are feeling so put upon and oppressed by current orders to stay at home and shelter in place for the sake of their families, neighbors and communities, this is what true sacrifice looks like. The nun in the right of that photo is Mother Marianne Cope (aka St. Marianne of Molokai), the founder of St. Francis Hospital in Honolulu who succeeded Father Damien at his personal request, and who was likewise canonized by The Vatican in 2012 for her own selfless 40-year mission on Molokai in the service of others.

    To visit Kalaupapa National Historic Park on Molokai today is to walk on hallowed ground in the footsteps of saints and to bear witness to the determination of a few hardy and compassionate souls, who transformed a rank injustice to humanity into a consummate triumph of the human spirit.

    Aloha a Mālama Pono.

    Give me liberty and give me death. (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by KeysDan on Wed Apr 22, 2020 at 12:57:43 PM EST
    Dr. Birx, one of Trump's public health experts, responds to Georgia's Republican Brian Kemp's OK to re-open "essential" businesses such as movie theaters, tattoo parlors, and hair and nail salons:

    "I believe people in Atlanta would understand that if their cases are not going down that they need to continue to do everything that we said--social distancing, washing your hands, wearing a mask in public--so if there's a way that people can social distance and do those things, then they can do those things.  I don't know how, but people are very creative."

    Maybe, cut hair and nails with tree cutting extension.

    However, a creative response on her part might have been, don't get a tattoo, a massage, or go to the movie theater at the height of a deadly virus. Because your governor is reckless and irresponsible does not mean you have to be.

    It seems (none / 0) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 22, 2020 at 06:09:29 PM EST
    that most restaurants are not going to open up their dining rooms. They are going to continue to do takeout. I don't know about hairdressers etc. It is such a mess. Once again Kemp completely screwed the pooch on this one.

    Kemp went (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by KeysDan on Wed Apr 22, 2020 at 07:04:56 PM EST
    out on Trump's tree limb, only to be sawed off by Trump.  Kemp is holding on to the fallen limb.

    I know. (none / 0) (#78)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 22, 2020 at 07:17:51 PM EST
    LOL. Nobody accused Kemp of being the smartest tool in the shed.

    Now he's got Trump rolling the bus over him and most of the state angry at him for only listening to the crackpot conspiracy theorists.


    and to think (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by leap on Wed Apr 22, 2020 at 07:25:11 PM EST
    Georgia could have had a real governor, and almost did.

    And, Kemp (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by KeysDan on Wed Apr 22, 2020 at 10:06:17 PM EST
    appointed Kelly Loeffler to the senate seat vacated by Johnny Isakson for health reasons over Trump's preference for his rabid impeachment supporter, Doug Collins..  Kemp may have been trying to redeem himself with his being first to move on Trump's fever dream of early  economic re-opening, not taking into account Trump never missing an opportunity for retribution.

    A Spoon full of Clorox (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Apr 25, 2020 at 03:20:47 PM EST
    For those who live or grew up in the Boston area (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Peter G on Sun May 03, 2020 at 05:14:45 PM EST
    Yesterday, May 2, was the 65th anniversary of the day (5/2/1955) that WGBH television first went on the air. The first voice to be heard that afternoon, and one of the first two faces to be seen, was that of my uncle, Tony Saletan, an underappreciated force in the folk music boom of the '50s and early '60s, as well as in the development of educational television. (In addition to debuting WGBH, he was also the first first musical guest to be seen and heard on "Sesame Street" (season 1, episode 27), about 15 years later, a few months past 50 years ago.

    Here's a link (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Peter G on Sun May 03, 2020 at 07:38:25 PM EST
    for the first two songs Tony sang on that 1969 Sesame Street episode.

    Snopes (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 19, 2020 at 06:26:20 PM EST
    Just today (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 19, 2020 at 06:30:43 PM EST
    Cheeto has lashed out at both FOX NEWS and DRUDGE REPORT

    I think the crazy incitement tweets from Trump are causing some of this.

    Piers Morgan (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Apr 19, 2020 at 07:31:05 PM EST
    was on CNN explaining what Trump needs to do to "win" reelection in November. All the things he listed like telling the truth and using facts and showing empathy are not things Trump is capable of doing. He said the press conferences are nothing short of a disaster. He also said Boris Johnson has been a disaster in the UK with coronavirus. Basically their bag of tricks don't work with the virus.

    Trump is certifiably nuts (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Coral on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 09:59:58 AM EST
    I don't believe there is a rational bone in his body. It's all instinct, anger, and raging mental incapacity/illness at this point.

    That GOP leaders are still going along with this madness is, for me, the most horrifying aspect of what we are living through.


    The right (none / 0) (#3)
    by KeysDan on Sun Apr 19, 2020 at 06:55:08 PM EST
    to infect others with a deadly virus.

    Guns (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 19, 2020 at 07:55:34 PM EST
    Pro-Gun Activists Push Anti-Quarantine Protests

    April 19, 2020 at 8:12 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 50 Comments

    "A trio of far-right, pro-gun provocateurs is behind some of the largest Facebook groups calling for anti-quarantine protests around the country, offering the latest illustration that some seemingly organic demonstrations are being engineered by a network of conservative activists," the Washington Post reports.

    "The Facebook groups target Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York, and they appear to be the work of Ben Dorr, the political director of a group called `Minnesota Gun Rights,' and his siblings, Christopher and Aaron. By Sunday, the groups had roughly 200,000 members combined, and they continued to expand quickly, days after President Trump endorsed such protests by suggesting citizens should `liberate' their states."

    Didn't (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by FlJoe on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 04:39:59 PM EST
    think about this
    The doomsday preppers who've spent their lives preparing to hunker down during a crisis are the same people completely unable to deal with the stresses of a 1 month stay-at-home guideline. They didn't last 2 weeks without breaking down, yet somehow everyone else is the snowflake.

    And, Putin (none / 0) (#7)
    by KeysDan on Sun Apr 19, 2020 at 08:18:26 PM EST
    at the bottom of the pile.

    What concerns me is (none / 0) (#11)
    by ragebot on Sun Apr 19, 2020 at 10:06:34 PM EST
    the fallout unrelated to politics.  I was late starting my normal cruising plans this year and the corona virus put an end to cruising.

    But the cruising forums are all wondering just how soon anyone will be cruising.  Back in the day we use to carry yellow cards to show we had been vaccinated for tropical diseases.  They were more important than passports and customs would not let you in their country without them.

    Not just for cruising on boats like I do but airlines as well may require some type of proof you are not carrying disease.

    It is hard for me to imagine the Southern border going back to the way it was before.  Already there are reports of bodies rotting in the streets in South America.  Many of the islands I use to frequent are not allowing anyone to enter and some are forcing cruisers to leave.  Cuba won't even let boaters in a marina stay on their boats they have to go to a hotel or leave the country.  In big part this is due to food and fuel shortages in Cuba.

    There have been three previous pandemics similar to this one the 1958 H2N2 Asian Flu, the 1968 H3N2 Hong Kong Flu, and the 2009 H1N1 flu which had several names due to disagreements about stigmas.  Popularly known as the Asian Flu, Swine Flu, and Mexican Flu there is no agreement on just where it originated.  It was claimed to have first appeared in China but later claims that it originated in Mexico.  The largest claimed death toll in the US it said to be around 100,000 or a little more.  With today's larger population if the death toll is less than 100,000 it will probably go down in history as being successfully controlled.

    But already there is a significant movement to blame China for not just being where the virus originated, but more importantly how China seemed to cover up significant important facts about how soon they knew about it and how it was transmitted.  Hard to see how China may suffer the most from the fallout.

    There are too many unknowns for me to even speculate on how it will affect the coming election.  

    The closest (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 05:52:18 AM EST
    comparison to our current situation is the 1918 pandemic. The 2009 H1N1 had tests out within 2 weeks.

    As far as the election, the Carnival Barking Clown has literally zero to run on due to the fact that prior to the coronavirus the only thing he was going to run on was the economy. His incompetent handling of the virus along with senators using the virus for their own personal financial windfall and the fact that 2020 was slated to be a bad year for the GOP anyway makes it look like a very bad November for team red.


    I hope it's that simple (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 08:48:37 AM EST
    I really do

    It's actually (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 10:01:18 AM EST
    not going to be simple since we're going to have to fight white supremacy at every turn. I was just laying out the big picture.

    Trump's three-legged (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 12:01:46 PM EST
    re-election stool, division, deception, and dough, has had its third leg kicked out from under him by his inept response to the pandemic. The bottom fell out of his expectation that even if many voters found him to be a buffoon, his idiocies will be overlooked because he is making dough for them with the sky's the limit stock market rise. Now, he must ramp up division--e,g. Those. People, China, WHO, Democratic governors taking away rights and guns, Nancy Pelosi, and the nasty du jour. And, deception. His strength, and that of every good con man. Lies, flim flam, false hopes, misinformation and scapegoating.

    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 01:30:01 PM EST
    the only thing he had going for him was the economy and that is gone. The same ones that have continued to allow themselves to be scammed will continue to be scammed.

    The big picture is (2.50 / 2) (#27)
    by ragebot on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 11:57:17 AM EST
    Biden is a bozo who has little to no support from rank and file dems.  He is the anyone but Bernie candidate who got in by default.  Not to mention his comments about China not being a threat to the US and the fact that his son got a billion and a half dollars in investment money from China right after Biden's official visit there.

    I get it that you are on a "race is everything rant" but you are in the minority in that view point.  Even Carville knew "it's the economy, stupid" and most folks think Trump would have a much better economy than Biden.

    Not saying Trump is a shoe in to win, just that Biden is possibly the worst candidate the dems could have come up with.


    Biden is not (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 01:45:23 PM EST
    The possibly worst candidate.  Not even close.  

    How about Eric Swalwell.

    Not to mention Warren and and Sanders.

    Sorry, not even close..  Biden is the candidate Trump was worried enough about to get himself impeached.

    Biden is many things.  including possibly not the best candidate.  But he is far from the "worst candidate".


    Warren is not (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 01:47:47 PM EST
    Going to be VP.

    I think, it winds up, (none / 0) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 03:07:27 PM EST
    that Biden is a good candidate for these times.  The election will turn on voters against Trump and turnout by Democratic and Democratic-leaning independent voters.

     Trump is doing a good job all by himself on the first and Biden has done a very good job toward the second---unifying the party and having the strong support of key Democratic voters, the African American community. True, Biden is not as fit as say, Falwell's pool boy, but he will do just fine, And, after all, his opponent is off the rails on his best days.


    Capt (none / 0) (#51)
    by ragebot on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 06:32:11 PM EST
    who was your choice for prez.  Seem to remember you liked Mayor Pete.  Jeralyn has made it clear Biden is far from her favorite choice.  I could go back and find plenty of posts from plenty or regulars here bashing Biden.

    The guy is a laughing stock with his gaffs.  He can't seem to carry on a coherent conversation even when he is on something like The View.

    As I have often posted Trump is far from my idea of a good candidate.  But many of his espoused policies seem in hindsight to be ones voters will favor.

    Things like strict border controls, making crucial products in the US, stopping China from stealing our innovations, making better trade deals.  Biden still has his history of his kid getting rich with deals from China and Biden's comments about China not being a threat to the US.  I can see Trump beating Biden like a rented mule in any debate.

    As for impeachment Trump's current position is it was not just a joke but something that wasted valuable time, effort, and money that would have been better spent addressing the virus.  Impeachment is out of the rear view mirror for most voters.  They are more concerned with how to get out of the current mess as a result of the corona virus.

    Not just the US but other countries (German, UK, and Australia have sent China a bill of billions of dollars in damages) are blaming China for their obvious failure to deal with the Virus.  Biden will have a hard time reconciling his previous positions on China, not to mention his kid's dealing with China, with the current world wide mood blaming China for the current pandemic.  Bottom line for me is Biden is terrible candidate.  But I do agree a guy like Stillwell might be a worse candidate.


    LOL! Get real, guy. (5.00 / 5) (#54)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 06:55:40 PM EST
    ragebot: "As I have often posted Trump is far from my idea of a good candidate. But many of his espoused policies seem in hindsight to be ones voters will favor."

    The November election will be a referendum on the incompetence and negligence of the president and party presently holding sway in Washington, and not about their ideology.

    Look, I do policy development for a living. I can craft the best policies in the world but what good is that, really, if the officials in charge don't know how to actually govern - or worse still, disdain to govern altogether?

    Trump & Co. have done serious damage, and they're compounding it on daily basis with their ineptitude and unwillingness to take responsibility. And that's not something voters are necessarily willing to overlook.



    What voters will not over look (1.33 / 3) (#58)
    by ragebot on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 07:22:24 PM EST
    is Biden is a lackey for China and his son has reaped the benefits of Biden flacking for them.

    Biden has made silly statements like China is not a competitor to the US and they are no threat.

    It is obvious to over 75% of voters according to polls that China is responsible for the corona virus.  Several countries have sent China a bill for billions of dollars for the damage the virus has caused in their countries.  There is a bill in the US Senate for the US to do the same.

    If you think there will not be a huge backlash against China over the damage the virus has caused you need to get up to speed on the issue.

    Trump has been a leader in this while Biden is still trying to stutter his way out of his previous positions and his son's payoffs for what Biden has done as VP to enrich China.

    This will be the key issue in the election; what the US can do to recover from the damage China has done.


    "Trump has been a leader in this" (5.00 / 8) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 08:22:36 PM EST
    Did you type that with a straight face?

    Heh! Trump can be called many things. (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 21, 2020 at 08:47:59 PM EST
    I daresay "leader" isn't one of them. Viruses have been an integral part of the world's flora and fauna from its inception. Nobody is to blame for a friggin' virus.

    If your primary reaction to COVID-19's existence is to seek a scapegoat, then you're a fool who is doing your very best to seal your own fate.

    Don't be a fool.


    only trump supporters (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Apr 25, 2020 at 11:34:07 PM EST
    believe what you wrote about Biden and his son and China. Most people are not interested in any of those topics.

    Hilarious (5.00 / 5) (#40)
    by Yman on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 02:25:12 PM EST
    Please, tell us more about what "rank and file Dems" believe.



    It's not about (none / 0) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 01:26:40 PM EST
    Biden and against a carnival barking clown he looks normal and normal is what people want. It would seem they are tired of the three ring circus of incompetence.

    November is going to be a referendum on Trump. Do you want 4 more years of a carnival barking clown who destroys everything in his wake or a return to normalcy?


    I disagree (none / 0) (#26)
    by Jack E Lope on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 11:55:22 AM EST
    ...with, "...the only thing he was going to run on was the economy".  

    He still gets strong ratings from his supporters in another category: cruelty-to-foreigners.


    Well (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 01:30:56 PM EST
    i was talking about getting enough votes to win. yeah, the cruelty part is loved by his base but it's a turnoff to the majority of people.

    Did you ignore (none / 0) (#29)
    by ragebot on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 12:02:13 PM EST
    the part of my post about how Cuba is treating foreigners.  And Cuba is far from alone in harsh restrictions on who can enter and stay in the country.

    What ever happens it should be obvious to everyone that strict immigration controls will be in place (and in many cases already are) to limit the spread of disease.

    Like it or not entering a different country will require papers proving you are disease free; not just in the US but in most of the world.


    Seriously (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 02:18:35 PM EST
    making people not get out of the boats or stay in a hotel is harsh when Trump puts people in cages? You did the nearly impossible by making Cuba look like a bastion of human rights compared to the US.

    Not jsut staying in hotels (none / 0) (#52)
    by ragebot on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 06:33:53 PM EST
    boaters are not allowed to leave hotels.  Kinda like being in a cage; but having to pay rent on the cage.

    Because (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 22, 2020 at 06:11:01 PM EST
    staying a hotel is exactly like sleeping on a concrete floor with a blanket and drinking out of a toilet. Only you could make Cuba sound good.

    I didn't miss the part about Cuba, (none / 0) (#80)
    by Jack E Lope on Wed Apr 22, 2020 at 08:41:27 PM EST
    ...my statement was more-general.  Cruelty-to-foreigners has been a feature of the Trump Administration from Day 1, not just a response to the current situation.  

    Yes, I am horrified by the cruelty of not being able to stay on one's boat at the marina.  Cuba is no longer perfect in my eyes.

    Only a heartless totalitarian government would make people pay for the very walls that exclude those same people.


    Watch that first step (none / 0) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 08:58:20 AM EST
    None of these people should (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 02:23:39 PM EST
    be allowed into any hospital or medical facility. To heck with paying for their own medical bills. Make them die at home. Why should their absolute stupidity be allowed take up bed space in hospital? Why should they use up the resources needed for people who caught COVID-19 through no fault of their own. Or from one these idiot yahoos.

    Again, let them go home and die in their own beds.


    I so agree (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 02:31:41 PM EST
    I saw a sign yesterday


    excellent.  Starting today he is also your healthcare provider

    Won't happen of course but I'm dammed if I can stop myself from being a littlest bit happy some of the dumb f'ckers are going to die.

    If that makes me a bad person I'll take it.


    And by August, ... (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 07:14:09 PM EST
    CaptHowdy: "I saw a sign yesterday[.] JESUS IS MY VACCINE[.]"

    it wouldn't surprise me if you run across a gravestone that reads:

    Beloved Husband and Father
    "Jesus Was My Vaccine.
    The Lord Had Other Ideas.
    This Is All Obama's Fault."



    #fireFauci (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 09:41:44 AM EST
    In an ABC News interview, Dr. Anthony Fauci warned those protesting stay-at-home orders that their efforts would backfire.

    Said Fauci: "If you jump the gun, and go into a situation where you have a big spike, you're going to set yourself back. So as painful as it is to go by the careful guidelines of gradually phasing into a reopening -- it's going to backfire. That's the problem."

    Trump's daily rallies, (none / 0) (#49)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 05:39:11 PM EST
    of misinformation, deception, rage, blaming, and boasting conveys to many credibility when flanked by infectious disease and epidemiology experts, such as Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx. At best, they "walk on eggs" and, at worst, they give a patina of science to Trump's campaign of personal and political interest and the expense of public health and interests.

    Dr. Birx has enjoyed a very good reputation in infectious and communicable disease, particularly HIV/Aids.  But, everyone Trump touches, he contaminates.

    Dr. Birx will be remembered, if at all, by this statement during an interview on the Christian Broadcasting Network: "He's been so attentive to the scientific literature and the details and the data."  "I think his ability to analyze and integrate data that comes out of his long history in business has really been a real benefit during the discussions about medical issues because in the end, data, is data."

    Dr. Fauci has become somewhat of a hero, and, in fairness, Fauci is in a difficult position so long as he is in government. And, he no doubt feels he is still an influencer.  I am likely the lone ranger in this, but I feel he is serving his objectives less as time goes on, and he should move on.

    He tried this balancing act during Reagan's presidency regarding HIV/AIDS.  Now, at age 79, and in view of the pandemic, he needs to be unrestrained, especially from protecting a monster in any shape or form.  Liberate Fauci.


    Where would we be without hm (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 05:46:35 PM EST
    I understand why he is doing what he is doing.

    Will (none / 0) (#22)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 10:01:53 AM EST
    we even know if any of them are stricken with coronavirus? I mean these people are probably willing to die for Trump.

    We are learning about these guys (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 10:15:14 AM EST
    Had the orange clown been in office (none / 0) (#18)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 09:49:59 AM EST
    on 9/11/2001, he would have spent the next three years blaming the whole thing on Clinton (and is wife's emails).

    And NY and PA would have been on their own to cleanup and investigate.

    I'm old enough (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 02:07:19 PM EST
    to remember when Dubya blamed Clinton for both 9/11 and the economic meltdown in 2008. This is all conservatives know how to do.

    Its a complicated subject. (none / 0) (#30)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 12:43:56 PM EST
    It is not helped by arbitrary restrictions.  What is allowed in one state is barred in another.  Yes you can buy paint where allowed and maintain safe social distance.  Yes you can curbside pickup this product but not that product.  Arbitrary restrictions always cause backlash.

    Then there are the moving goal posts.  Initially this was all about flattening the curve so as not to overwhelm the health care system.  We certainly are there in many places but now even limited loosening now will require broad based testing among other requirements.

    Perhaps most importantly there is ZERO consideration of the lives lost due to the lockdown.  Experience shows increases in unemployment are coupled with increases in suicide.  Increases in burglary and robbery will result in increased deaths as well.

    Deferral of elective surgery will cost lives.  On a personal note my beautiful bride of 48 years had a valve and her aorta replaced last year.  That kind of surgery is being postponed.  That will cost lives.

    From the London Times:

    It's chilling to know that many hospital wards, waiting rooms and car parks are now empty. Before this country was hit, only 800 of the NHS's 4,125 critical care beds were vacant at one time. Now it's 2,300. Even with some of the worst fatality rates in Europe, some hospitals now report being half empty since they paused almost all non-emergency work.

    The number of deaths due to the disruption of cancer services is likely to outweigh the number of deaths from the coronavirus itself over the next five years. Cancer screening services have stopped, which means we will miss our chance to catch many cancers when they are treatable and curable.

    Tumors that were survivable will become inoperable.

    Matt Hancock, the health secretary, refuses to give a figure for the potential non-Covid fatalities from this catastrophe but the cabinet was told it could be up to 150,000 avoidable deaths.

    In this country is the government doing its part?  Well the hottest hot spot is New York City, and research from MIT points to the subway as the main disseminator of the virus.  Did Trump, or Cuomo, or de Blasio order the subway shot down? No.  Well, the MTA did play a part.  With the fall off in  ridership the MTA reduced the frequency of departures.  If the frequency of departures had been maintained more social distancing of the riders would have been the result, but the MTA preferred a "pack 'em in" policy.

    Now let's talk about that gal fishing on the riverbank 100 yards from the nearest person.  She is newly unemployed and the fish will feed the family.  Is she putting us all risk?  Apparently the answer is yes if the governor of the state in question chose proscribe that activity, but no is the governor decided to allow.  Is this understanding correct?

    "Arbitrary restrictions". LOL! (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by Yman on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 02:32:28 PM EST
    It is not helped by arbitrary restrictions.  What is allowed in one state is barred in another.

    Hilarious.  The fact that something is allowed in one state but not in another makes it "arbitrary", even though those states can be facing entirely different circumstances.


    Perhaps most importantly there is ZERO consideration of the lives lost due to the lockdown.

    Who is this imaginary person who isn't considering the costs (including lives lost) of a lockdown?

    Gotta love those strawmwn.


    As to arbitrary (1.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Apr 21, 2020 at 08:14:35 AM EST
    Is fishing by yourself so likely to spread disease or not?

    Some beaches in Florida and California were opened with safe distancing guidelines to gasps of disapproval from lockdown supporters. While at the same time as of April 20 the parks in the nation's hottest hot spot remain open.

    As to consideration of lives lost due to the lockdown, then perhaps I missed it. Having watched a number of the briefings the sainted doctors Birx and Fauci never mentioned the trade off, nor has any lockdown governor to my knowledge. Trump did say the lockdowns cause lives, but offers no quantification.

    So if you have a link to the consideration of that trade off by any policy maker, please share.


    Ever been to NYC Abdul? (5.00 / 4) (#65)
    by vml68 on Tue Apr 21, 2020 at 08:47:33 AM EST
    Seen a picture of the city?
    People live in high-rises. Some of these people  have dogs. Dogs need to urinate/defecate. One option is to let them use your tiny apartment as their bathroom, another is to walk down to a city park and let them do their business there.

    State parks, city playgrounds, etc., are closed. City parks are open for the reason I mentioned above.


    Not my job (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Yman on Tue Apr 21, 2020 at 11:32:01 AM EST
    As to consideration of lives lost due to the lockdown, then perhaps I missed it. Having watched a number of the briefings the sainted doctors Birx and Fauci never mentioned the trade off, nor has any lockdown governor to my knowledge. Trump did say the lockdowns cause lives, but offers no quantification.

    So if you have a link to the consideration of that trade off by any policy maker, please share.

    I've heard many policy makers discuss the costs of a shutdown.  Providing links to everything you've missed would guaranty full employment for the entire country - and I already have a job.


    Oh, for Heaven's sake, Abdul. (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 21, 2020 at 09:19:18 PM EST
    Here is a short history of confirmed coronavirus cases in the United States over the last 90 days:
    • Jan. 21: 1 case, 0 deaths
    • Feb. 21: 31 cases, 0 deaths
    • Mar. 21: 25,772 cases, 311 deaths
    • Apr. 21: 824,698 cases, 45,297 deaths (as of 4:15pm HST)
    This is what a logarithmic increase looks like. This is why scientists and public health officials in our country were sounding the alarm at the beginning of the year.

    When the final numbers on COVID-19 are eventually reconciled and tallied sometime next year, we'll likely see that a U.S. death toll in excess of 100,000. It could've been worse. Had the various state governors and city mayors not taken action themselves to suppress the coronavirus's virulent spread to the extent possible in their jurisdictions, had we all done nothing and instead let nature take its course, that toll in the U.S. alone was projected by analysts at London's Imperial College to be 2.2 million.

    You don't know what you're talking about, Abdul. Speaking for myself only, I've always thought that you never have known what you're talking about, and even now I think you likely never will, because old habits die hard and your addiction of choice is to right-wing extremist talking points.

    But at this particular point in time, trafficking in bull$hit can have deadly consequences. A just-released study by the University of Chicago's Becker Friedman Institute for Economics underscores what many have suspected, that the willful dissemination of misinformation by Fox News hosts and guest contributors during the early stages of the pandemic likely led to a subsequent and corresponding spike in COVID-19 cases and deaths among that network's viewers.

    So, please do a big favor for those people in your own life whom you love and respect, if not for the rest of us, and cease opining in willful ignorance on those matters which are clearly outside your wheelhouse of knowledge and / or expertise. Who knows, the life you save may not be your own.



    This is a big experiment (none / 0) (#66)
    by McBain on Tue Apr 21, 2020 at 10:53:49 AM EST
    Hopefully, we'll learn from the mistakes.

    Thank you for calling attention to one person... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Jack E Lope on Wed Apr 22, 2020 at 08:56:14 PM EST
    Thank you for calling attention to one person who can't go fishing, which might have seemed to the rest of us like a small price to pay - until you made us aware of the injustice.

    It's sad that hastily-created attempts to slow the spread of a deadly disease didn't include a fully-worked-out plan for fishing.  

    If there's a next time, let's make a plan and not toss it out.


    Kemp opens GA (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 04:06:08 PM EST
    Movie theaters in about a week but massage parlors now

    No kidding.  This is breaking nooze.

    Robert Kraft just called. (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 07:20:51 PM EST
    For the medically fragile (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 04:07:49 PM EST
    It's your call.

    How bad do you want a massage?


    Allongeorgia (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 04:10:02 PM EST
    The only hold-up, (none / 0) (#48)
    by KeysDan on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 05:05:09 PM EST
    Kemp say, is getting tests for everyone. But, he is working on it with Universities. No mention of Trump saying, on March 6, at the CDC (with Kemp standing next to him), "anyone who wants a test can get a test."

    Kemp's phase I permits theaters and restauratns to open next Monday. Places of worship, too--if the abide by social distancing guidelines. I call foul..what is good for the theater should be good for the church.


    Ya'll (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 08:50:41 PM EST
    need to keep us Georgians in your thoughts and prayers. Seriously we are going to have a massive outbreak of coronavirus since Kemp basically caved into the Trumpers. I'm planning on sheltering in place until the end of May when the scientific models say it is safe. There is no way restaurants or any of these other businesses he is opening can be safe because there is no testing. If he is working on testing then he should have waited until the testing was up and running before reopening. And our church already was planning to be closed until May 24th. Our cases are going up and we have not yet peaked.

    Biden interview (none / 0) (#59)
    by ragebot on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 07:36:02 PM EST
    speculates on Michele Obama as his VP.

    Answering a question (5.00 / 6) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Apr 20, 2020 at 08:17:29 PM EST
    Is not speculating



    Morning Consult (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Apr 21, 2020 at 07:49:07 PM EST
    This is a good one (none / 0) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Apr 22, 2020 at 07:56:51 AM EST

    America's senior citizens are growing critical of his approach.In mid-March, this group approved of Trump's handling of the outbreak at a higher rate than any other age group, with a net approval of +19. A month later, that level of support has dropped 20 points and is now lower than that of any age group other than 18-29-year-olds.

    I've always wondered about seniors (none / 0) (#85)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 24, 2020 at 07:45:04 AM EST
    A good percentage of them seem to get more self-centered/selfish as they get older.  Maybe just a survival instinct?  The thing that's finally hurting their support for Trump is an issue that threatens them personally - as opposed to the many others they've ignored that threaten society/others.



    This senior (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by Zorba on Fri Apr 24, 2020 at 05:50:19 PM EST
    (Me) is, if anything, even farther to the left than I was when I was younger.   And I was pretty far to the left back then.

    Yeah - just a generalization (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 24, 2020 at 09:16:30 PM EST
    But it's reassuring to hear that there are some liberal seniors out there.

    You're in conversation with a bunch of them (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Peter G on Sat Apr 25, 2020 at 06:25:08 PM EST
    in these here parts.

    I think they are the (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Apr 25, 2020 at 11:49:24 PM EST
    majority here, or at least I hope so.

    I'm probably closer to an anarchist than a centrist or a socialist. We have so many laws and regulations we don't need. Freedom is highly underrated in this country.


    I would agree (none / 0) (#98)
    by Zorba on Sun Apr 26, 2020 at 12:24:00 PM EST
    About too many laws we don't need, J.  
    There are too many people in prison here who should not be.
    We need to make prisons more humane, and emphasize rehabilitation rather than incarceration.
    And stop locking up people who are not a danger to society.  If they are a danger to themselves, then offer them rehab, job training, help with housing, counseling, whatever they need.

    I'm probably edging (none / 0) (#96)
    by Zorba on Sun Apr 26, 2020 at 11:46:35 AM EST
    A bit closer to communism at this point.  Not anything like what any countries call or have called "communism," because none of them are actual communists.
    Maybe call me a socialist-communist.

    While ski racing in Chile during the 60's (none / 0) (#100)
    by fishcamp on Sun Apr 26, 2020 at 01:20:32 PM EST
    there was a presidential election going on.  There were communists running around lighting fires and causing havoc.  I remember trying to mail a letter home and smoke was roiling out of the mail box in front of the Post Office in Santiago.  A Chilean ski racer friend walked me down a street where the communist headquarters were located and pointed out at least ten socialists offices too.  He tried to explain how communism was just another form of socialism, but I didn't really understand that back then.

    I am probably a little less to the left. (none / 0) (#89)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Apr 24, 2020 at 07:29:15 PM EST
    My heroes in my late teens were Abbie Hoffman, the Weather Underground and the Black Panther Party.

    I still admire Abbie Hoffman. I met him at a debate at University of Maryland in College Park after he resurfaced. I have autographed copy of one of his books.


    In my experience (none / 0) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Apr 24, 2020 at 07:52:36 AM EST
    They also often get more paranoid and frightened.  

    I would guess seeing signs like this are a bit of a shock to a demo used to being pandered to.


    They may be getting (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Zorba on Sun Apr 26, 2020 at 12:15:27 PM EST
    More paranoid.  They for sure are getting more frightened, at least according to the people I am in contact with.

    Many in my demographic are beginning to become alarmed at Trump and his idiocies.  To which I tell them, good, I warned you guys.


    Yeah (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Apr 26, 2020 at 12:38:34 PM EST
    As it's worth mentioning while we represent a significant part of TalkLeft we do not unfortunately represent a significant part of our age demo.

    It's sad, (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Zorba on Sun Apr 26, 2020 at 02:39:35 PM EST
     But it's true.

    I see (none / 0) (#88)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Apr 24, 2020 at 06:44:25 PM EST
    that with my mother. That idiotic caranvans thing really worked on her. And then they watch Fox News which is the worst with selling fear to their viewers.

    Earlier than we thought (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 23, 2020 at 12:40:10 PM EST

    I continue to think I had this stuff before there was a reported case in my area.  When there was only a couple in my state.

    Looking forward to the antibody test.

    Anitbody (none / 0) (#84)
    by FlJoe on Thu Apr 23, 2020 at 02:12:42 PM EST
    testing in NY shows 14% positive.
    New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Thursday a screening of 3,000 people found nearly 14% tested positive for antibodies for the novel coronavirus, suggesting that 2.7 million residents across the state may have been infected with the disease.
    10x the current official count, not quite a random sampling but in line with other studies and modeling showing the rate of infection is much higher.

    Bottom line it looks like a lot of people had it with only mild, moderate and even no symptoms.


    ironically (none / 0) (#105)
    by thomas rogan on Thu May 28, 2020 at 07:21:35 PM EST
    The people in Northern Michigan would be delighted to be experiencing the level of restrictions imposed by Colorado's enlightened governor.