Server Issues Done, New Open Thread

The company that physically hosts TalkLeft's server is in the process of moving its servers a short distance from where they are presently located. Our server was not scheduled to be moved until midnight tonight, but apparently someone pulled the wrong plug somewhere when moving another server last night, and TalkLeft was down for several hours last night and this morning.

Obviously, we are back up now, but we are still on schedule to be moved tonight around midnight, and we should be down for only 90 minutes or so (n a perfect world).

I apologize for any inconvenience to those of you who clicked this morning and got no response -- I only realized it around 9:00 am, by which time Colin, our webmaster, was already on it and we went back up soon after.

This is now an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Keep up (5.00 / 7) (#1)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Mon Mar 09, 2020 at 06:12:28 PM EST
    The good work. Thanks for hosting.

    Can this be an open? (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 09:25:35 AM EST
    Not that much to say about servers.   Maybe others think there is

    Just asking

    And what Abdul said.

    Why not? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Peter G on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 09:50:23 AM EST
    Just go for it.

    Sure, thanks for thinking (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 12:29:12 PM EST
    of that. I'll be offline until this evening and won't have anything new up till then.

    This is good (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 11:01:30 AM EST
    Biden Gets Into Heated Debate Over Guns

    March 10, 2020 at 11:47 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 3 Comments

    In a heated argument caught on video, Joe Biden rejected a worker's claim that Biden was "actively trying to end his second amendment right."

    Biden told the worker "you're full of sh!t."

    Is there a Chinese year (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 11:45:56 AM EST
    of the cranky old man?

    If there is one (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 02:48:55 PM EST
    then this year must be it considering how many cranky old men we have out front and center.

    For those who are not from (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Peter G on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 11:57:52 AM EST
    the Greater Philadelphia Area (which for present purposes may be defined as extending from Scranton, Pa., on the north, to Wilmington, Del., on the south), "You're full of sh*t" means, "Your understanding of my position on gun control is unfortunately mistaken. Whoever is giving you information on that subject may be trying to mislead you, in order to get you riled up and induce you to vote against your economic interests. Please check out my campaign website for accurate information on the subject. I am sure I will be able to win your vote if you do."

    In Joe's defense, (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 12:32:21 PM EST
    Democrats taking away everyone's guns has been a right wing talking point for years now. It gets hammered on by every wacko and not so wacko 2nd amendment organization out there. I know some people who will swear to this all day.

    So, anyone claiming Joe Biden is going to take away their guns, is exactly that, full of $hit.

    Other than Beto claiming to want to take away "assault rifles," no Democrat, to my knowledge, has run on mass gun confiscation, ever. Not even Obama ever proposed this. And he was a kenyan/nigerian communist.


    The definition of an "assault rifle" (none / 0) (#16)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 03:15:33 PM EST
    Is whatever a particular piece of legislation says it is. My old Browning .22 caliber rifle fits some bills because the tube magazine holds a bit more than 10 rounds.  Actually 11 LR or 16 shorts.

    Depends on what you mean by mass confiscation. Many folks would consider any confiscation of more than a million to be "mass."


    "Mass" hysteria (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 04:08:33 PM EST
    and paranoia is more like it..

    Brought to you by the mindset that's waiting on The Rapture and the QAnon mothership.


    ... but here goes. Per the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), which compiles such statistics because gun violence represents a serious public health concern:

    • 7,410 people have died from gun violence in the United States in the year to date, of whom 191 were children under the age of 18.

    • 2,790 of those deaths are classified as homicide (murder, unintentional, etc.) and another 4,620 are classified as suicide.

    • Another 4,856 have been wounded by firearms in the year to date, of whom 498 were children under the age of 18.

    • There are more than 393 million guns in circulation in the United States -- approximately 120.5 guns for every 100 people.

    • Those people who live in homes where firearms are present are over three times more likely to die from an accidental shooting, than are those who reside in gun-free households.

    • 89% of all unintentional shooting deaths occur in the home.

    • People who have access to firearms are over five times more likely to be involved in a gun-related personal confrontation, over two times more likely to die from gun-related homicide, and over three times more likely to die from a gun-related suicide, than are those who do not own or have access to firearms.

    • Suicide rates are much higher in those states with higher rates of gun ownership, even after controlling for differences in rates of poverty, urbanization, unemployment, mental illness, and alcohol or drug abuse.

    • In states with increased firearms availability, death rates from gunshots for children were much higher than in states with less availability.

    • In incidents of domestic violence, an abusive partner's access to firearms increases the victim's risk of homicide over eight-fold.

    The statistics don't lie. Those Americans who reside in homes where firearms are present and readily available are actually far less safe in their persons than those who live in gun-free households.

    There are actual real-life consequences of public policies and rhetoric that promote rather than discourage gun possession and ownership, of which one is an annual national casualty rate that's readily comparable to the worst year of the Vietnam War (1968).



    If you dig a little deeper (none / 0) (#62)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 09:25:08 PM EST

    You will find so called "assault rifles" have almost nothing to do with those statistics.  

    Firearm fatalities are majority suicide with handgun, but virtually all of the common gun control proposals would have zero effect.  Using those stats as an excuse to ban or confiscate rifles of any type is just bait and switch.

    BTW, do you think it is honest to refer to a military age male (17 years old) as a child?

    Do you think including criminals justifiably shot to death by law enforcement officers in those totals is more likely to inform or to mislead?


    Where did I mention assault rifles? (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 03:10:23 PM EST
    Abdul: "You will find so called "assault rifles" have almost nothing to do with those statistics."

    I don't believe I did. but if you'd like me to mention assault rifles and give you a few statistics for those, I will. Let's start with October 2017 Heartland Music Festival massacre in Las Vegas, NV, shall we? 59 people were killed -- originally 58, until one more woman finally succumbed to her wounds two months ago -- and another 413 were injured from the gunfire. And if you throw in those who were hurt in the ensuing panic and flight of countless thousands of people from the scene, that latter number rises to 869.

    You're in my wheelhouse, dude. I've been studying the issue of gun violence for the better part of a quarter-century, because it's the biggest single immediate threat to public safety that U.S. society faces today. Nearly one-third of all deaths of young people between the ages of 15 and 24 years are firearms-related. Only auto accidents account for more fatalities in the young.

    Abdul: "BTW, do you think it is honest to refer to a military age male (17 years old) as a child?"

    Yes, I do. The law itself considers persons under 18 years of age to be minor children. Parents can be held civilly liable and in some instances even legally culpable for the actions of their 17-year-old offspring. Further, young people can't legally join the military at age 17 without first obtaining the consent of their parents or guardians. If you think otherwise, then you're truly ignorant and this discussion is over.

    Abdul: "Do you think including criminals justifiably shot to death by law enforcement officers in those totals is more likely to inform or to mislead?"

    And exactly how many do think you that is, Abdul? Well, I'll tell you. But first, let's update the casualty figures I cited yesterday. As of this writing (12:15 p.m. PDT, 03/11/2020):

    • 7,513 people in the United States have died this year as a direct result of gun violence (homicides, suicides and accidents inclusive), of whom 19 were children under the age of 18.  Those figures have increased by 103 and 4, respectively, since yesterday.

    • 2,827 of those deaths are classified as homicide (murder, unintentional, etc.) and another 4,892 are classified as suicide. Those figures have increased by 37 and 272, respectively, since yesterday.

    • Another 4,892 have been wounded by firearms in the year to date, of whom 513 were children under the age of 18. Those figures have increased by 36 and 15, respectively, since yesterday.

    Now, let's get to those numbers of which you're so interested. In all officer-involved shooting incidents in the U.S. for the year to date, 10 officers and 259 subject/suspects have been killed, and another 49 officers and 182 subject/suspects have been injured. For perspective, that represents approximately 3% and 5%, respectively, of the total gun violence casualties for the year.

    I'd note that two of those officers killed this year were from the Honolulu Police Dept., who died along with the subject/suspect and another victim when a domestic violence incident tragically escalated into neighborhood-wide mayhem last January 20.

    I would further note, for the record, that not everyone who's been shot by a police officer should necessarily be classified as a "subject/suspect," even if the officer(s) initially believed otherwise at the time of the incident.

    So honestly, guy, if you're going to debate me on this issue, you need to do far better than offer up NRA-generated political clichés and / or whatever else passes for so-called "conventional wisdom" within your increasingly constricted circle of addle-brained white wingbats. Because right now, you're the rhetorical equivalent of a candy-loaded piñata hanging from the rafters at a children's birthday party, and the kids have a baseball bat and a sweet tooth.

    Ciao 4 now.


    I'm aware that current policy (none / 0) (#125)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 10:12:43 AM EST
    Is to require parent or guardian consent to join the military. That does not change the fact that 17 year olds serve in uniform as I did. Further, 17 year old males are in the militia as defined by the Militia act.

    Oh, for f***'s sake! (none / 0) (#148)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 08:43:03 PM EST
    Abdul: "I'm aware that current policy [i]s to require parent or guardian consent to join the military. That does not change the fact that 17 year olds serve in uniform as I did. 17 year old males are in the militia as defined by the Militia act."

    What in the world is wrong with you? Stop being so obtuse. The law defines persons under the age of 18 years as children. If you need Mommy's or Daddy's written permission, then you're not an adult. Period. Full stop. End of discussion.




    Well, to be fair, (none / 0) (#131)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 01:19:30 PM EST
    regarding your comment about Vegas and "assault rifles," the Vegas shooter used semi-automatic rifles modified with "bump stop" devices. (Contrary to one TL poster's false insistence that the guns were unmodified automatics.) Who knows which, if any, of the 20 or so "definitions" of "assault rifle" they would fall under in their un-modified state.

    These bump-stop devices "hacked" the semi-auto guns into shooting automatically, something the guns were manufactured not to do. Automatic weapons were banned in the 1930's.

    So not at all your average "assault rifles" which, as you know from your copius research, have been used in plenty of other incidents.

    Why would you choose the Vegas shooting?


    It's bump stock, not stop. (none / 0) (#136)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 03:37:40 PM EST
    As in rifle stock. Full-auto is not what defines  assault rifle. There are plenty of semi-automatic rifles that would be defined as an assault rifle by "reasonable" people (that excludes the resident gun nuts and right wingers). An SKS is a semi-automatic rifle that, I, would call an "assault" rifle. It's made for war, not hunting. They usually come equipped with a bayonet. No one is running around the woods trying to stab Bambi.

    Stock, yes. I misstyped. (none / 0) (#140)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 04:13:54 PM EST
    The rest stands.

    Plenty of other incidents to choose from, why use the one incident (that I am aware of) in which the semi-automatic guns were physically modified by the shooter to be fully-automatic?

    Dude almost always ruins an actual reasonable point by over reaching.



    Not sure where you are buying (none / 0) (#141)
    by ragebot on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 04:30:05 PM EST
    assault rifles in general of SKS rifles in particular but I have never seen any rifle, assault or not, "usually come equipped with a bayonet".

    Not sure any current military even issues a bayonet any longer.


    Then you aren't looking at many SKS rifles. (none / 0) (#142)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 04:53:12 PM EST
    The freaking pictures on the SKS Wikipedia page have folding bayonets fer chrissake. A five second Google search for SKS rifle images will show nearly 80% of them with folding bayonets.

    I bought two of them at a gun show about 16 years ago. Both had folding bayonets.

    You are without a doubt either 1) completely clueless on the subjects to which you post (IMHO) or 2) a troll.


    Bayonets are old-school (none / 0) (#165)
    by Jack E Lope on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 12:59:51 PM EST
    I think some misunderstanding comes from the fact that bayonet lugs were - past tense - one of the factors in defining an assault weapon in the old federal ban.  (The word "ban" was an exaggeration, I think.  It was more of a Buy American law than an outright ban.  The GCA of 1968 also made some things illegal-if-imported.  Beretta started making their tiny guns in the US, in response to the GCA of '68.  A lot of cheap-junk-gun manufacturers in the US were started after the GCA of 1968 went into effect.)

    I thought a bayonet was a way be sure to bring a knife to a gun fight.


    According to investigators, ... (none / 0) (#145)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 08:21:51 PM EST
    Sarcastic: "Why would you choose the Vegas shooting?"

    ... during Stephen Paddock's opening salvo from his 32nd floor suite in the Mandalay Bay Hotel on October 1, 2017, he popped off 280 rounds in only 31 seconds into that defenseless crowd of concertgoers. Ultimately, he managed to fire over 1,100 rounds between 10:05-10:15 p.m. PDT. So, why would I NOT use the Las Vegas massacre as an example?

    The argument offered by some NRA apologist that the weapons Paddock wielded were not "assault rifles, per se" is really and truly a distinction without a difference to the average person, and it's one that's entirely meaningless to Paddock's nearly 1,000 victims and the countless numbers of grieving family members and friends who've since had to deal with the residual effects of that trauma.

    But more to the point, the guns wielded by Paddock are weapons of war for which there's no rational purpose other than to kill as many enemy combatants as quickly as possible. As such, individual Americans who reside in otherwise peaceful communities really have no business being in possession of them.



    So, why would I NOT use the Las Vegas massacre as an example?

    Because the difference between the modified/hacked guns used in Vegas, and your basic "assault rifle" is 280 rounds in 31 seconds vs. about 25 rounds in 31 seconds.

    But you knew that.


    Hence automatic weapons being illegal since the 30's.

    Sarcastic: "Because the difference between the modified/hacked guns used in Vegas, and your basic "assault rifle" is 280 rounds in 31 seconds vs. about 25 rounds in 31 seconds. But you knew that."

    Do you honestly believe that surviving family members of massacre victims in Las Vegas or Newtown, CT give a rat's a$$ about the difference between an AK-47 assault rifle, a bumpstock-modified AR-15 or a semi-automatic Glock 9mm handgun? The point here is that tens of thousands of people are dying from this epidemic of gun violence. The question of whether or not those deaths occur at the business end of a rifle or a pistol is completely immaterial to the broader discussion of this issue.

    It's long past the point of rational argument whether or not we have a deadly fetish with firearms in the United States, because the statistics don't lie. We do. Americans comprise about 4% of Earth's human population, but they possess about 46% of the entire global stock of nearly 860 million civilian-owned firearms. In fact, the U.S. ownership rate of 120.5 guns for every 100 residents is well over twice that of the No. 2 nation on that list, Yemen, which has 52.8 guns per 100 residents. And the Yemenis are presently consuming themselves in a heartbreaking civil war.

    Further, and this should concern us all, a 2017 Gallup poll found that only 42.4% of American households reported owning firearms. Given the estimated 118 million U.S. households per the 2010 U.S. Census, that translates to the 393 million-plus civilian-owned guns in this country in only 50 million of them. That represents a remarkably dangerous and volatile concentration of weaponry, which strongly suggests that some American households in our neighborhoods are veritable arsenals and we likely don't even know where they are.

    So, why don't you and Abdul at least try to address the actual problem of gun violence in your next posts, rather than repeatedly attempt to deflect from that issue with these nonsensical NRA-inspired semantic sidebars about the difference between automatic and semi-automatic weapons or worse still, whether a 17-year-old child is still a child for statistical purposes?

    Because it really doesn't matter whether that 17-year-old is killed by a Rohm R23 Snub Nose .22 double action revolver that neatly put a small hole in his chest, or by a Daniel Defense DDM4 rifle that fired multiple .223-calibre military-grade tracer bullets which pulverized his rib cage into smithereens and left exit-wounds the size of softballs. Either way, the boy's still dead.

    Wise up.


    The difference in lethality (none / 0) (#203)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 06:23:34 PM EST
    between the modified guns that the shooter used in Vegas and an "assault rifle" is literally an order of magnitude.

    The Vegas guns were modified to essentially be machine guns, while "assault rifles" are not even close. By an order of magnitude.

    That you think (hope?) few people are aware or care about the modified Vegas guns now explains why you use Vegas as your preferred example of "assault rifle" violence.


    You know Donald (none / 0) (#163)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 12:41:19 PM EST
    When nearly NOTHING happened with regard to changes in gun laws after Las Vegas, gun availability, etc., I become convinced that nothing will ever change in this country. It will take at least of couple of generations and massive change to the gun culture in this country for this to stop.

    I really thought Las Vegas would create a turning point. Instead we got people calling for more guns.


    Nearly 60% of Americans do not own firearms. At some point, the majority will grow terribly weary of the carnage and mayhem and will finally boot the NRA's subsidized congresscritters out of office.

    That's what we said (none / 0) (#171)
    by smott on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 02:28:37 PM EST
    About Sandy Hook

    You can accomplish the same thing (none / 0) (#157)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 11:26:08 AM EST
    as a bump stock with a medium strength rubber band. That will work on Semi-Auto pistols also.

    Why am I not surprised that you'd know this? (none / 0) (#201)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 06:04:04 PM EST
    (Sigh!) No wonder the country's going to hell.

    Anything other than (none / 0) (#174)
    by MKS on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 02:39:53 PM EST
    handguns and hunting rifles seems suspect to me.

    And, even we hold off banning assault because of issues regarding definitions, we need to prevent the mentally ill and those who have restraining orders against them from obtaining or possessing firearms.

    But too many are invested in keeping the "boyfriend loophole" and related exceptions that create a danger to public safety.


    I gotta say (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by Yman on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 01:02:03 PM EST
    I kinda like the Philly version.  :)

    I like this Joe Biden I'm seeing. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 05:48:05 PM EST
    This is the Joe Biden we saw in the 2012 campaign, the Happy Gladiator who chewed up Paul Ryan in the vice presidential debate, spit out the remains, picked his teeth with the bones and then asked Republicans what was for dessert.

    No longer should we have to suffer such willful ignorance like some overly devout Catholic serving a perpetual penance in pergatory. If the guy demands an apology, I hope Biden responds, "I'm very sorry you're that fckn stupid." To hell with these people.

    Per Hosea 8:7, "They sow the wind and reap the whirlwind." There are no fiercer warriors in battle than those persons who first sincerely tried to avoid and diffuse such a confrontation in the first place. They wanted a fight. Well, they've now got one.

    So, bring it on.


    Friends (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 12:03:56 PM EST
    March 10, 2020 at 12:09 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 116 Comments

    Washington Post: "Some friends have told Trump that the coronavirus does not seem like a major threat, noting that they don't know anyone in their communities who has been infected. Some also have sought to flatter Trump by saying that unlike the two septuagenarians running for the Democratic nomination -- Joe Biden and Sen. Bernie Sanders -- Trump, 73, is so healthy that he is not personally at particular risk, according to a senior administration official."

    Seriously Donald, I bet you can't even BE infected by a virus.  You would kill it on Twitter

    The Trump Coronavirus (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 01:12:14 PM EST
    Plan (such as it is) is using a provision of the Affordable Care Act to require that insurers cover the virus (HHS has stated that coverage is an Essential Health Benefit).

    The Trump Administration and Republicans have tried to repeal and roll back ACA as well as promote junk plans with limited coverage. And, the Trump Administration is presently in Court to invalidate the entirety of the ACA.

    Moreover, While ACA-compliant plans for individuals, small employers (under 50 employees), Medicare, and Medicaid are included, as an HHS designated EHB, self-insured or employee provided insurance may or may not be covered.

    Good plan (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 02:14:29 PM EST
    Bonus Quote of the Day

    March 10, 2020 at 3:05 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 18 Comments

    "It will go away, just stay calm. Be calm. It's really working out. And a lot of good things are going to happen."

    -- President Trump, quoted by CNN, on the coronavirus pandemic.

    can we hope for this quote? (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 03:06:28 PM EST
    "I will go away, just stay calm. Be calm. It's really working out. And a lot of good things are going to happen." will go away, just stay calm. Be calm. It's really working out. And a lot of good things are going to happen."

    The Trump Coronavirus Economic (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 03:58:10 PM EST
    Proposal: Take two payroll tax cuts and call me after the election.

    As an economic stimulus, a payroll tax holiday has shortcomings for those not on a payroll.  And, the pandemic containment strategy is based on avoiding public places such as shopping malls and travel. Although, the extra money that may be received could go toward Netflix and home deliveries.

    And, of course, payroll taxes pay for Social Security and Medicare.  Both are matching programs, SS 6.2 % each employer and employee (12.4% total) and MC 1.45% each employer and employee (2.9% total). SS wage base limit is $137,700; MC no wage base limit, but an additional MC employee tax of 0.9% in excess of $200,000.

      A payroll tax holiday gives the employee the additional take home of their match; the employer does not have to pay their side of the match----sounds like corporate welfare, or maybe, socialism.  

    If the idea is to help the worker, just send a check or, at least, some government cheese.

    If I understand correctly what (none / 0) (#119)
    by Peter G on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 10:31:00 PM EST
    a "payroll tax" cut is, it does not mean an actual tax cut. It means that less of the anticipated tax the person will owe on income for the year will be taken out of wages each week. In the following spring, the person still owes the full amount of tax for the past year, but less has been withheld. This is no favor to anyone. If I am wrong, and they are only talking about the weekly contribution to Social Security and Medicare, 50% from the employee and 50% from the employer (if I am not mistaken), and will not require it to be made up when the employer's and employee's tax returns are eventually filed, then yes, it is a further attack on the solvency of Social Security.

    The payroll tax (none / 0) (#127)
    by KeysDan on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 11:25:05 AM EST
    refers not to income tax withholding, but to the deduction for Social Security and Medicare (the rates are indicated in my comment, matching amounts for employee and employer).  

    The Trump proposal, unsurprisingly,  is still a work in progress, but the outline as presented by Peter Navarro, a Trump adviser, is for a payroll tax suspension until the end of the year.  SS and MC taxes would not be collected from either employee or employer. The employer may or may not pass their matching share along to the employee.

    The resulting increase (absent the payroll tax deduction) would be subject to income tax. It is estimated that this proposal would cost about $1 trillion. Apparently, neither the House nor the Senate leaders have warmed to the proposal, at this point.


    Whats the over/under (none / 0) (#133)
    by jmacWA on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 02:56:29 PM EST
    The employer may or may not pass their matching share along to the employee.

    I don't think I'd be too far out on the limb to assume no more than a couple of dozen will pass along, and most of them will be small S-corps with few employees


    Well, this (none / 0) (#138)
    by KeysDan on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 03:52:52 PM EST
    would be a nice windfall for the employer.  And, if passed along, upon expiration and return to the payroll tax, employees   may feel as if they were getting a pay cut.  And, the next thing you know, there would be an expectation for an equivalent pay increase.  So, an estimate of "a couple of dozen" is likely way too generous.

    It's increasingly hard (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 04:47:24 PM EST
    To tell.   But my bad.

    Yeah, mine too (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 04:49:47 PM EST
    The payroll tax thing is just stupid (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 05:10:50 PM EST
    I hope they can stop it.  Apart from being a stealth attack on Social Security it would only help people who are working at full time jobs.

    Larry Clodlowe is talking about how BOLD it is.

    They can't stop it (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by coast on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 07:25:25 PM EST
    Because it is something that most can understand and  more importantly can see via a higher paycheck.

    How do you figure it only helps those with full time jobs?  I'm pretty sure anyone that earns a wage pays FICA in some way, self-employed included.

    Doesn't really matter, but have to ask if you felt the same in 2009 when Democratic House, Senate and White House passed a similar measure.  It was popular enough that Obama demanded it be extended.


    It's not 2009 (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 07:39:13 PM EST
    Several prominent economists say no. In 2011 and 2012, the economy was still struggling to emerge from the Great Recession of 2007-09, unemployment was high at 8% to 9% and wages were barely growing, Zandi says. Now, unemployment is at historic lows and wages are rising solidly.

    If you work for tips or other ways as many lower income people do it's not going to help you.  And those are the people who most need the help.

    We will see if they can stop it.  Or change it.


    Completely agree on the lower income side. (none / 0) (#73)
    by coast on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 07:46:43 AM EST
    Something additional would need to be done on that front.

    The circumstances (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 09:30:46 PM EST
    are not the same as in 2009 and a payroll tax holiday is not the  right treatment.  Economic stimulus aim to encourage immediate increase in aggregate demand by boosting consumer spending.  A stimulus of this nature does not help those out of work without pay.  And, for those working and doing reasonably well, the increase take home is most likely to be saved, not spent right away.   The pandemic containment does not support new demand or encourage consumer spending. And, too, employers will be more likely to save their tax break in face of decreased consumer demand and spending.

    What form of stimulus would you propose? (none / 0) (#71)
    by coast on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 07:45:55 AM EST
    You're correct its not like 2009.  We have been through recessions and understand how to work our way out them.  This is completely different.  Explain to me how you increase demand and consumer spending in Italy where people are basically locked down?  How are you going to encourage people to buy that ticket to go travel to a destination and spend their money?

    Also to your last point "employers will be more likely to save their tax break in face of decreased consumer demand and spending", is completely incorrect.  A payroll tax holiday, as implemented in the past, only benefits the workers.  The company continues to pay its share of employment taxes at its full rate.


    The current proposal (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 09:35:59 AM EST
    is a tax holiday for workers and employers. The company would be paying nothing.

    Agreed. (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 11:24:51 AM EST
    This is the difference in dealing with the economic impact of a financial crisis and an infectious disease crisis. For the latter, the surest way, of course, to limit economic damage is to limit the spread of the disease. This requires adherence to public health expertise, effective management and a willingness of the federal government to spend what is necessary. And, to do so quickly.

    The states are on the front line and the federal government should do whatever it can to assist so as to avoid increases in state taxes. For example, the federal government can pick up more of the share for Medicaid.  The unemployment insurance requirements for people to be seeking work to receive benefits should be waived (a difficult requirement if avoiding person contact or quarantined).  And, too, rules that call for work requirements for food stamps and other anti-poverty programs should be changed.

    The payroll tax holiday of the past had several drawbacks both in effectiveness and inequity (as a percentage of earnings, biggest tax cuts go to those who need it the least. And, those who lose their jobs or have no paid sick leave get no benefits). You are right that the Obama payroll tax holiday terms required employers to continue to pay their matching share. However, as that tax holiday was to expire, concern for the effects of abruptness brought consideration of switching to employers.  And, the present discussions of the Trump Administration have included both employee and employer, although that is a moving target.

    George W. Bush tried a cash rebate program in 2008, but it was found to be too small to be really effective.  The Wall Street Journal has suggested a one-time payment of $1,000 to every adult plus $500 for every child.

    While this approach, too, seems to benefit rich and poor alike, apparently, the idea is to act fast without having to determine need, and to kick-start the economy once the outbreak has passed. Lump sums tend to get spent more than incremental increases in a paycheck.  So, on balance, I believe this is a better way than a payroll tax holiday. And, it does not jeopardize the future of our critical safety net, Social Security, and Medicare.


    Well put. (none / 0) (#115)
    by coast on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 08:04:36 PM EST
    Agree with you.

    Unfortunately, I think the time it would take to even produce and distribute the number of payments necessary we would be looking at several months.  With how fast things are moving I'm not sure how effective it would be.  But I agree that it would be better than the payroll tax holiday.


    Nancy is said to have been working (none / 0) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 07:53:29 AM EST
    On her own version fir a while.

    Pelosi Has Trump Over a Barrel

    March 11, 2020 at 6:42 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 39 Comments

    Playbook! "Amid the Bach and forth over the federal response to the coronavirus, this much the top ranks of Republican and Democratic leadership and the White House can agree on: Speaker Nancy Pelosi, once again, has extraordinary leverage over President Trump and the White House. One Republican put it to us this way: Pelosi has Trump over a barrel."

    "Here's why: Trump and his White House are the public faces of the fallout over the deadly virus rippling across the nation, and he needs Pelosi -- his nemesis -- to cut a deal, and pass a bill. The U.S. just surpassed 1,000 confirmed cases as of Tuesday night."

    "Of course, Pelosi has a laundry list of priorities of her own. But rarely is the leverage as skewed as it is here."

    "Something to keep an eye on: In our conversations, Tuesday, one influential Republican made sure to tell us that this is not like TARP. No one had suggested it was, so clearly the GOP is feeling anxious about having this branded as a massive bailout."

    Barrel (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 03:36:37 PM EST
    Trump May Support House Coronavirus Package

    March 11, 2020 at 1:07 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 62 Comments

    Playbook: "We hear from senior Republican sources close to President Trump that the White House likes what it has heard so far about the bill House Democrats are putting together, and Trump would be inclined to sign it as long as it doesn't include surprise provisions that the administration opposes. This is a preliminary assessment and, like everything, could change."

    The Hill (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 06:33:46 PM EST
    President Trump's push to cut the payroll tax as part of an effort to revive the economy is facing steep headwinds on Capitol Hill.

    Trump has spent days making the pitch publicly, as well as privately, as Washington is under growing pressure to try to shore up the stock market, which has plummeted this week over growing concerns about the growing coronavirus outbreak.

    House Democrats are set to unveil an economic response package that does not include a payroll tax cut.

    Trump and Republicans (none / 0) (#143)
    by KeysDan on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 04:55:36 PM EST
    are opposed to the House Bill. They do not like all the help being given to workers and want something, it seems, that focuses on helping the economy. Speaker Pelosi should consider sweetening the Bill with some grifting opportunities, such as supporting Invanka's spring line of Hazmat suits or funding copies of Don Jr.'s book as a substitute for scarce toilet paper.

    These are key points of the House bill:

    Free Testing: private health insurance plans should provide free testing and waives cost-sharing rules for Medicare/Medicaid and federal retirement programs.  It boosts federal matching funds to state Medicaid programs.

    Paid Sick Leave. Benefits are to be paid through Social Security; 2/3 of wages up to three months, expires January 2020.

    Federally Mandated Sick Leave for private businesses. Employees can accrue seven days paid sick leave, and 14 additional days in event of health emergencies.

    Food Aid. Funding $1.3 Billion in food for low-income pregnant women, their children, senior citizens, and food banks. Food stamps for lost lunch benefits if children are kept home.

    Support for unemployment benefits.


    GOP senators demand Hyde prohibition (none / 0) (#146)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 08:34:32 PM EST
    Here's my (none / 0) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 01:37:38 PM EST
    question: how are you going to get people to buy anything regardless of how much money you throw at them? If people are having to go without pay I can't see it making much of a difference.

    Yes, that is (none / 0) (#104)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 04:42:56 PM EST
    the uniqueness and difficulty of addressing the economic impact of an infectious disease crisis. Shut-ins do not purchase goods and services other than necessities. No new model auto, etc.

      As I indicated, the best approach is to treat the economy, as with the disease itself, symptomatically.  Stimulus programs, such as infrastructure, tax credits and cash,  come into play in the aftermath.

     Right now, there is no confidence in the Trump Administration and no evidence of its competence to stop the spread or otherwise control the virus. The fear is not so much the viral disease, itself, but the fact that we know we are on our own. Trump has experience in cover-ups and he is using it so as to let his p.r. take hold.  But this is not the Ukraine, we can see the "lock um ups".


    I would propose direct-payment - like the WSJ? (none / 0) (#106)
    by Jack E Lope on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 06:09:58 PM EST
    What form of stimulus would you propose?
    I propose that Italy cut its payroll tax to zero.  Since I am so much smarter than the current POTUS, I have already made it happen.  Now, we can ignore that distraction.

    Payroll tax "holidays" have a sort-of-upside-down progressiveness to them, in that fewer dollars go to the people who are likely to spend a greater percentage of the money they get.   I'd suggest that payroll-tax holidays should be revenue neutral (to eliminate the Social Security benefits destruction Republicans crave) by raising the cap (the point at which the marginal FICA tax rate goes to zero, $137,700 for 2020).   That would help preserve President Ronald Reagan's plan to save Social Security, but I'm sure that Republicans would not go for a fast rollout of that sort of plan, for some reason.  (I can't tell you what they might say is their reason for opposing such a revenue-neutral plan.  However, I'm sure they'd fabricate something.)

    The biggest argument for using a payroll tax cut is that it can show up on everyone's next paycheck (except those who have already been paid $137,700 so far this year), and a speedy rollout is most effective.   (The financial crisis that started during the last year of Dubya's Administration dragged on for a while, in part because the direct-cash stimulus was too small, and additional stimulus that was calculated for 2009 conditions was delayed - in part by the Republicans preventing cloture in the Democratic-majority Senate, so it didn't get fully rolled out until 2012ish...which was too late to have all of the intended effect.)

    KeysDan mentions that the WSJ is suggesting a record-setting direct-payment stimulus.   I agree, and I think it would be more effective per dollar than a payroll tax "holiday" or cut.  (I am amused by the fact that the right-wing pundits suddenly become Keynesian when their interests are threatened - coincidentally, in election years.  I am surprised that I agree with a WSJ editorial stance.  I have to go wash my hands.)

    The part that coast gets right, though, is that the idea of a payroll tax cut is fairly easy to sell to the public.  I suspect there's a lot of private money that would like to promote that idea, too.


    Direct (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 06:19:39 PM EST
    payment would make the most sense especially to people who are going to lose pay. At least they could keep a roof over their head and food in the stomachs.

    Couldn't agree more. (5.00 / 3) (#75)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 09:34:06 AM EST
    And I am still working full time and collecting a paycheck. This would give me about $600 a month. But I wouldn't spend it. It would go straight into retirement savings. WHICH IS WHERE IT'S GOING NOW.

    The deficit is higher now than ever. Social Security and Medicare cannot afford this. This is a surefire recipe to surreptitiously end both programs. "Hey we're out of money. Sorry if you were counting on this healthcare and food in your old age."

    This is a plan by a guy who doesn't give two $hits about anyone or anything but his own aggrandizement. It's trolling for votes from people working two and three jobs. His older supporters won't notice anything until after 2020 when they can't buy food or get a medical appt.


    Biden vs Trump is (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by hilts on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 09:58:49 PM EST
    the most depressing matchup possible. It's a choice between 2 incredibly inarticulate, incoherent buffoons.  

    Don't forget that Biden is the person who said that Republicans will experience an epiphany once Trump leaves office. If Biden beats Trump, Mitch McConnell will eat his lunch every day because Biden is too dumb to defend himself.

    That's why (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 06:05:52 AM EST
    people need to change their focus to the senate. It actually won't matter who we beat Trump with as long as the senate is in the hands of McConnell.

    Trump Wins Presidency But Dems Win Congress (none / 0) (#78)
    by RickyJim on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 09:52:59 AM EST
    Both Houses.  Trump will then play ball big time with Chuck and Nancy.  He can then safely ignore his base and billionaires.  That is why I think retaking the Senate is even more important than the Presidency.

    Paul Gosar (R.AZ) (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 02:57:47 PM EST
    who is self-quarantining after the CPAC coronavirus exposure, thinks it's all so funny. He tweeted that it was totally untrue that he and Ted Cruz (who is also in quarantine after viral contact at the CPAC meeting) were going to meet with 86-year old Justice Ginsberg.    A real knee-slapper.  No doubt, Chief Justice Roberts will be sending a sternly-worded letter to Gosar.

    That was the crappiest speech.. (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by desertswine on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 09:37:38 PM EST
    I ever heard.  I asked my wife not to put it on, but she did anyway.  Trump looked bad, sounded awful, and looked like he was barely functioning. Also, stupid. The first sentence was a lie and went downhill from there.

    Yeah, but Europe is now verboten. (none / 0) (#118)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 09:55:33 PM EST
    My elder sister, who lives in Provence, FR, is now stranded over there and can't visit. The far right would likely cheer, saying it serves her right for marrying a cheese-gorging, wine-swilling surrender monkey. "Freedom Fries 4ever!"



    The Europeans (none / 0) (#121)
    by desertswine on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 11:23:14 PM EST
    are his scapegoats of the day. Rather than accept responsibility for his own incompetency, he blames the Europeans.  Except for the Brits I wonder why.

    A nod to Putin. (none / 0) (#126)
    by KeysDan on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 10:49:11 AM EST
    Give a knock to the European Union--- never let a crisis go to waste.  At first I wondered if the crazy-quilt ban was based on non-English speaking viruses, but Ireland was included in the ban.  So, EU.

    Provence? (none / 0) (#122)
    by MKS on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 11:28:21 PM EST
    Not such a bad place.  Maybe she is better off.

    If she still is a U.S. citizen (none / 0) (#123)
    by Towanda on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 06:47:58 AM EST
    she's fine to fly here.

    ... last month. She's now a citizen of France.

    It's going to be a golden opportunity (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by jondee on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 02:37:05 PM EST
    for Biden and Sanders to team-up and definitively drive a stake through the heart of the conservative quasi-religious dogma that privatized Free Markets are some sort of universal panacea for the needs of the citizenry..

    They might also have a little talk about the pathetic % of the national budget that's devoted to pandemic 'defense' and prevention compared to what's spent on military defense.

    I hope they take full advantage of the moment.

    Yeah, I'd like to see that too (none / 0) (#134)
    by jmacWA on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 02:59:12 PM EST
    BUT... I am not going to hold my breath

    March... (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by desertswine on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 03:42:21 PM EST
    Broadway theaters (none / 0) (#139)
    by KeysDan on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 03:56:26 PM EST
    going dark, per gathering size restrictions set by NY Governor Cuomo.

    Off Broadway offering refunds. (none / 0) (#147)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 08:40:34 PM EST
    Familiar with the "Nextdoor" app? (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 04:16:56 PM EST
    In my area it's mostly people whining about other people not picking up after their dogs and such, but today my belief in mankind was ratcheted up a few notches.

    Over the past couple days a bunch of HSs and colleges went to on-line classes, so there are a bunch of kids sitting at home now.

    Today, several of these local kids posted on ND that they will volunteer to help out with shopping, etc., for anyone who is self-quarantined, or feels that going out to public spaces might be dangerous for them, or needs help for any reason.

    House Democrats win (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by KeysDan on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 05:12:32 PM EST
    en banc Appellate Court review of its three-member panel's decision not to require McGhan to comply with the House Judiciary Committee subpoena.  

    Pangolin smuggling gangs.. (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by jondee on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 08:50:25 PM EST
    it's not a Captain Beefheart song, it's looking like it may be what started the coronavirus outbreak in China.

    Peter told me to (none / 0) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 10:32:05 AM EST
    Dispatches From Elsewhere

     is not like most of prestige tv.  It's mor like Legion on FX.  not really linear storytelling.
    It's great.  First three episodes have been background on 3 of the 4 main characters.
    Last night it was the Sally Field character.  There is an amazing scene any 70 years old will enjoy that has her talking to her younger self, on her wedding day, who is not happy with what she has done with their life.

    'Dispatches from Elsewhere' Episode 3 Review: Janice's backstory is woven in a wistful tale of loneliness
    Janice fumbles through her facade but her persistence is worth commending -- thereby proving once again why she is the biggest delight on a show that tries to be too edgy at times

    Biden and Sanders (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 03:43:54 PM EST
    Have both cancelled rallies because of virus fears.

    That actually (none / 0) (#22)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 04:19:45 PM EST
    is a good thing especially for Sanders who has a serious health condition.

    Coronavirus cases in MA (none / 0) (#18)
    by CST on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 03:46:36 PM EST
    Just (more than) doubled overnight.  State of emergency is now official.

    In the "you can't make this $hit up" category, the vast majority of cases here are due to a biogen conference.

    St. Patrick's Day parade is officially canceled.  The Boston Marathon is likely next.

    On the upside my commute is a lot better this week...

    I saw (none / 0) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 04:20:38 PM EST
    that they were due to a conference in Boston. Truth is stranger than fiction these days.

    Murphy's Bar & Grill cancelled ... (none / 0) (#56)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 08:01:35 PM EST
    ... the popular St. Patrick's Day block party in Honolulu. The Ivy League has cancelled its men's and women's basketball conference tournaments, while the Big West just announced that its conference tournaments will be played without any spectators at Anaheim, CA's Honda Center. And So-Cal's Coachella Music Festival has been postponed from April to October, contingent upon concert organizers getting commitments from most the acts booked to return at that time. Otherwise, this year's event will be cancelled altogether.

    The big debacle right now (none / 0) (#77)
    by CST on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 09:43:38 AM EST
    Is that the colleges are shutting down and telling people not to come back after spring break.  Which is all well and good for wealthier students with someplace to go but heaven forbid you don't have a place to stay - they are not helping anyone find housing.

    Harvard just made a lot of their lower income students homeless. There are people organizing in the community to try and help but this is a complete failure on their part and they aren't even trying to resolve it.


    Same thing happened in Ohio yesterday. (none / 0) (#96)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 03:17:52 PM EST
    What exactly were University of Dayton officials thinking, when they unilaterally disrupted students' on-campus living arrangements in the middle of the spring term by abruptly closing all the dorms and evicting the residents? Where are all these young people supposed to go now?

    I have no idea (none / 0) (#102)
    by CST on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 04:08:39 PM EST
    The only "upside" I can think of is that it's starting to be warm enough to sleep in a car... And to top it off the hospitality industry  - where many of these people work - is well and truly f*cked.

    Of course those jobs often come with a reliance on tips, no paid time off, no health insurance, etc.  And now we can add homeless to the mix.


    My campus and many others (none / 0) (#120)
    by Towanda on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 10:49:38 PM EST
    are allowing students to stay in dorms, if need be. This may not be a boon for those students, as it is being widely said in academe that dorms are like cruise ships. . . .

    Anyway, some campuses apparently are mishandling this aspect of the situation, but many are not making it a debacle.  As usual, sweeping statements are not useful -- while more accurate statements clarify how to handle this correctly, if anyone wants to pressure their alma mater to do the right thing.


    I was referring (none / 0) (#162)
    by CST on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 12:37:27 PM EST
    To local MA universities, as a contiuation of my previous post.  And specified Harvard as being one of the worse actors.  Now Tufts, Boston College, Brandeis, Babson College, Bentley, Framingham State, Mass College of Art, Mass College of Pharmacy, MIT, Mount Holyoke, Simmons, Suffolk, UMass, Wentworth, and Amherst college are also in the same boat.

    As far as I know of the large universities only BU and Northeastern are bucking the trend.

    Sorry if that was unclear.

    We have over 100 confirmed cases in MA right now, 4th highest in the nation and a ton of universities/students.


    I'm starting to be very worried... (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 03:57:24 PM EST
    the Phil Lesh show is going to get cancelled this weekend in Port Chester.  Nearby New Rochelle is now a "containment zone".

    You can have all the toilet paper, but please don't take my Lesh!

    I grew up in (none / 0) (#26)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 04:36:32 PM EST
    New Rochelle. Yesterday they had 98 cases. Today Cuomo sent in the National Guard for containment. It has 108 cases of the 173 total in the state. It's a small city (next to Scarsdale and Larchmont which are even smaller and more like villages.

    Cuomo Just said on tv (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 04:40:27 PM EST
    It was the largest outbreak in the country.

    My friend the nurse has been keeping up with the nursing home stories since he works in one.

    Supposedly multiple people went from no symptoms to dead in less than 24 hours in the nursing home outbreaks.


    Gov. Cuomo's not quite correct. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 07:39:03 PM EST
    As of this writing, the state with the highest number of diagnosed cases of coronavirus is still Washington, where 17 of the 20 overall deaths attributed to COVID-19 in the U.S. have occurred.

    Of those 17 deaths in Washington state, 16 were elderly residents at The Life Center in the Seattle suburb of Kirkland. Authorities are now performing post-mortem tests on the bodies of 11 other Life Center residents who had died in the three weeks prior to the first diagnosed case, to see whether or not the virus was actually present at the facility far earlier than was initially suspected.

    The Hawaii Dept. of Health announced on Sunday night that Honolulu now has two confirmed cases of COVID-19 infection, both of whom are older male state residents of 68 and 78 years, respectively. The former had recently returned from a trip to China via Singapore, while the latter had been visiting family in Seattle. In a bit of good news, no tourists have been reported as infected thus far.

    (I had earlier thought that due to Hawaii's geographic remoteness, the first diagnosed coronavirus cases in the islands would likely be tourists, rather than local residents.)

    I think what Gov. Cuomo was trying to say is that the cases in New Rochelle, NY appear to be the largest cluster of COVID-19 infections in the country that is not apparently attributable to a single source of infection, such as the nursing home outbreak in Kirkland, WA. And that's scary, because that means the virus is probably already well-established within that community's general population.

    In fact, the exponential increase in COVID-19 diagnoses over the past couple of weeks is simply staggering to behold and ponder from an epidemiological perspective. The United States is likely well past any hope of containment, and public health officials across the country are engaged in varying stages of mitigation.



    NPR (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 06:40:51 AM EST

    New York is creating a "containment area" around a community in New Rochelle, in an attempt to limit the spread of coronavirus in an area that quickly became the state's largest source of COVID-19 infections, Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced Tuesday.

    "It is a dramatic action, but it is the largest cluster in the country," Cuomo said. "And this is literally a matter of life and death."

    A synagogue in the city has become the epicenter of an outbreak in Westchester County -- which accounts for 108 of New York state's 173 coronavirus cases. Hundreds of people in the Young Israel congregation have already been under a voluntary quarantine order that was issued last week. The congregation's rabbi has confirmed that he is among those who have tested positive for the virus.

    ... that the COVID-19 virus has already spread well beyond any single containment area. I would therefore expect the number of cases in neighboring communities throughout Westchester County, NY to escalate dramatically over the next couple of weeks.

    King County (WA) health authorities noted yesterday afternoon that the virus has since been found in ten different senior assisted living and skilled nursing facilities in the greater Seattle area. Were I an epidemiologist, that would lead me to think that these facilities likely share a products distributor, one of which may be a potential primary source of the outbreak.

    As of this writing, at least 24 persons in Washington have been confirmed to have died as a result of COVID-19 infection. All but one has been in the Puget Sound region of the state. In an attempt to slow its spread, Gov. Jay Inslee has now prohibited all gatherings of 250 or more people within King, Snohomish and Pierce counties throughout the rest of March and possibly beyond. This will affect sporting events, concerts, large weddings and more.

    I have every confidence that public health officials throughout the country can eventually mitigate the impact of COVID-19 in their respective communities, but they're going to need the full and unconditional support of the federal government's resources to accomplish that. And right now, the Trump administration itself -- particularly the self-absorbed megalomaniac wearing the big sombrero -- is the weakest link in that particular chain of command.

    Malama pono.


    Yes (none / 0) (#113)
    by Jack E Lope on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 06:41:41 PM EST
    Yes, the long incubation means that there are likely to be a lot of people who are infected and don't know it yet.  Eventually, I expect that almost everyone will have been exposed - but, by slowing the spread we buy time to develop prevention and treatment methods.  Plus, if too many acute cases occur at once, there may not be enough ventilators (or ECMO lung-bypass devices for the more-acute cases) to support all the patients.  (My wife, a nurse who is ECMO-trained, estimates that Seattle metro area might have 50 ECMO devices - which could require 24-hour intensive-care nursing for each patient, too.)

    King County (WA) health authorities noted yesterday afternoon that the virus has since been found in ten different senior assisted living and skilled nursing facilities in the greater Seattle area. Were I an epidemiologist, that would lead me to think that these facilities likely share a products distributor, one of which may be a potential primary source of the outbreak.
    It makes me think of other vectors - staff and outside service providers.  Residential care often uses a lot of part-time or single-shift workers, who are likely to pick up work at other sites and may* lack sick pay.  Medical providers are another likely vector - my mother lives in a small care home that gets housecalls - an FNP, under the supervision of an MD, is the primary care provider for everyone (I think) in that home.  That medical practice covers a lot of different care facilities, and there's probably something similar going on in the Seattle area.

    *Washington now has a statewide safe-sick law, but I don't know the details.  It should reduce the pressure to work when sick - but Covfefe-19 is supposed to be communicable before symptoms are obvious, so people don't know they might be spreading the disease....


    Andrea Mitchell (none / 0) (#41)
    by MKS on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 06:04:45 PM EST
    said today on tv that she grew up in New Rochelle.

    Andrea Mitchell (none / 0) (#53)
    by fishcamp on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 07:46:44 PM EST
    is way older than our Jeralyn.

    Video of Biden telling a voter he's full of blank (none / 0) (#24)
    by hilts on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 04:24:02 PM EST
    This video shows Biden using crude language to a voter with whom he disagrees.

    https:/www.mediaite.com/news/youre-full-of-sht-joe-biden-argues-with-voter-who-accused-him-of-tryin g-to-take-away-guns

    I agree with Biden on the substance, but his utter lack of civility and gravitas is a huge turnoff for me.

    If it's Trump vs Biden in Nov, it will be the first time, since the advent of radio and tv, that we have 2 major party candidates who each have 0% gravitas.


    A polite troll (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 04:37:07 PM EST
    Would at least figure out how to post a link.

    Or at least use the idiot tiny url thing like Trevor.


    Also (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 04:49:40 PM EST
    It rich for a Bernie supporter to be upset by an

    utter lack of civility and gravitas

    Ohhhh noooooo! (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by Yman on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 05:15:51 PM EST
    A "lack of civility"! (clutching pearls)

    Guess he's following Bernie's lead and Bernie has no "gravitas", as well.



    Next thing you know (1.00 / 2) (#25)
    by TrevorBolder on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 04:31:16 PM EST
    He will be calling voters "Dog Faced Pony Soldiers"

    He is losing it

    His campaign is trying to keep his public appearances limited,

    He shushes his campaign aide


    Right (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 04:40:52 PM EST
    Biden needs to be refreshingly "un-pc" the way the slob in the Whitehouse is.

    In other words, keep doing what he's doing but be a Republican.


    Not good (1.00 / 3) (#49)
    by TrevorBolder on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 07:25:03 PM EST
    Angry old man yells get off my lawn, anyone who disagrees with him is a dog faced pony soldier or gets a finger in the face.

    His campaign attendants appear to be caregivers, not campaign workers.

    Symone Sanders is ready to catch Joe as he stumbles, they are all well aware of the frailty exhibited by Ole Joe.
    No way he makes it to the convention...well maybe if they eliminate all public campaign stops, all debates....This is elder abuse, let him go home and play with his grandchildren. He deserves it.



    Do they pay you guys in rubles? (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by Yman on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 10:05:06 PM EST
    These ridiculous, laughable smears from Trumpers not only demonstrate your hypocrisy, but how panicked you are.

    If you're so certain about Biden, no doubt you'd like to make some easy money.  Care to put your mrubles where your mouth is?


    They have a whole collection (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 07:46:04 AM EST
    Of video compilations of Trump lost confused and screwing up this morning on MJ that will be making the rounds today.

    If they really want to go down this road it will be fun.


    Trump's Best Words (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 12:00:37 PM EST
    Biden was (none / 0) (#37)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 05:22:35 PM EST
    interviewed by Lawrence O'Donnel last night on a wide range of topics.  Biden was thoughtful and respectful of Bernie. Overall, impressive.

    No, Joe Biden is not ''losing it.'' (5.00 / 4) (#46)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 06:52:00 PM EST
    But you sure are.

    Maybe after 2016 political advisers (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 05:45:23 PM EST
    are thinking being crudely 'unfiltered' is some kind of winning strategy..

    You almost can't blame them for drawing that conclusion.

    Not just political advisors I think (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 05:56:37 PM EST
    The real question is will he be able to get his fur up just as much the next time someone mentions his son.  He really really needs to.  And its something he has not been willing to do.

    I think he has to do it.


    What's next (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 06:07:10 PM EST
    If you believe 538 Biden is going to win everything tonight.

    Quotes from P Wire

    Sanders plans to take off for his home of Burlington, Vermont, on Tuesday evening...

    "But there's disagreement within the party over how -- or even whether -- to try to prod Sanders to clear the way for Joe Biden. Democrats agree they want to avoid a repeat of 2016's prolonged primary and risk turning over a bloodied and bruised nominee to face off against President Trump. Singed by the devastating general election loss four years ago, some Democrats say they refuse to go down that road again."

    "But others say Sanders has signaled that this time will be different -- that he's far more likely to jump than wait to get pushed."

    Maybe if it's as clear as it looks like it will be Sanders will surprise us.

    Hard to say (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 07:19:31 PM EST
    since Bernie hates the "establishment" so much that he would listen to them. Also different in the fact that he would be losing to a man instead of a woman. He has a history of having a problem with women candidates and refusing to acknowledge their wins.

    Kornaki (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 07:50:27 PM EST
    Has been going over all the places, which is literally all the places in MI, where Biden is beating Sanders where he won last time.

    Sanders is having the same problem Trump is going to have compared to 16

    He is not running against Hillary.


    Or any (none / 0) (#55)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 07:58:39 PM EST
    woman sorry to say. And Trump is now known to be a clown by the majority of Americans.

    Kornacki has to be having a bad night then.


    I don't agree about any woman (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 08:03:20 PM EST
    They just call MI

    not sure what you mean about Kornaki.  He seems to be having fun.


    Well (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 08:31:51 PM EST
    I think it would have been the same problem for any woman. We're still not to the point where women can get elected president it seems.

    Kornacki has been well known to be a bro. That is why I said he must be having a bad night.


    I don't think that bro thing is true (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 08:38:33 PM EST
    I was surprised you said it so I googled to see what I missed.  What I found was people who seemed unhappy he was saying good things about Sanders when he was winning.

    Kornaki might be Cronkite but I think it's silly he's a "bro"

    He get excited no matter who is winning.  He is just as excited tonight Biden is winning.

    I'm on MSNBC all the time.  He ain't a bro.


    Might NOT be (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 08:40:03 PM EST

    Did you see (none / 0) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 09:03:04 PM EST
    Chris Hayes about to cry? Apparently that is a "thing" but I haven't seen any clips and Carville taking down Maddow?

    Sunday debate in AZ (none / 0) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 06:23:02 PM EST
    Will have no audience

    And no press spin room (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 06:43:56 PM EST
    Could be interesting.

    Trump (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 10, 2020 at 07:13:40 PM EST

    Dana Bash

     Hours after Dems cancelled tonight's rallies and said they would take the rest day by day, the Trump campaign announced rally in Milwaukee March 19th.

    6:18 PM - Mar 10, 2020

    Will people show up.  Will he pay people to show up.  Either way, this is good.  The more and bigger Trump rallies the better.


    We haven't done so well (none / 0) (#68)
    by NoSides on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 07:12:54 AM EST
    nominating candidates who supported the War in Iraq - Kerry, Hillary Clinton, that it is with some trepidation that I see it once again with Mr. Biden.

    But I'm sure it will be different this time.

    "We" ... heh (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by Yman on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 07:28:08 AM EST
    You think anyone really buys that?

    By "we" (none / 0) (#153)
    by NoSides on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 09:54:31 PM EST
    I meant people on the left of the political spectrum.

    People who opposed Bush.

    People who supported candidates who were opposed to the war in Iraq.

    I did not mean to infer that included you


    Trust me, comrade (none / 0) (#186)
    by Yman on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 03:33:27 PM EST
    In no way do I fall into your группа.

    BTW - Your definition of "we" makes no sense in the context of your prior post,  but perhaps something wad lost in translation.


    They say the plan is (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 07:41:32 AM EST
    To do the next debate and next Tuesday and then see where they are.

    I hope it's true

    Next Tuesday will almost certainly be worse for Sanders than yesterday was.  And the debate is going to be a whole different experience without the hooting booing morons in the audience.

    Plus, like Trump, Sanders can't do his thing without big rallies


    Not sure (none / 0) (#87)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 01:40:14 PM EST
    why the debate is still scheduled.  The Democratic nominee is, essentially, Joe Biden.   There are other ways for Bernie to make his case and influence the platform.  At this point, the runner-up is debating the winner.  Sort of a Trump stand-in.

    Hard to cancel now, but change the format to a round table, or in chairs across from one another.  A friendlier format.  With the usual moderator, and usual go after the one in the lead, the debate is not likely to help the Democrats.  Although, Biden does gracious well, and could use the debate as an opportunity to unite supporters, if not Bernie.


    One on one (none / 0) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 01:41:49 PM EST
    It's the first one on one

    That's their excuse.



    That said (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 01:45:48 PM EST
    A scrimmage before Cheeto might not be the worst thing.

    For Joe.


    Interesting thing (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 01:50:21 PM EST
    I was listening to Sanders earlier, as long as I could, and what struck me is he said "what he was going to ask Joe".

    It was like, I'm giving you the test, you better have some answers.

    And to be fair, they were good questions.

    I say debate.


    Stream of consciousness (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 02:03:25 PM EST
    I'm working on it

    Funny (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 12:58:45 PM EST
    I just made a major Walmart run.  It's a superstore so the market and especially the produce is the best around.  I made a "first of the month run".

    Thing is, I wore Nitrile gloves

    I keep them in my kitchen because I don't like getting icky things between my fingers.  And for slicing hot peppers.  Ever slice a Serrano and scratch an itch?

    Anyway it was like a social experiment.  A mixture of knowing and/or approving nods,  looks like, `right, where are those things' and outright hostility.  The last from obvious Trumper candidates.

    It was interesting.  

    You should wear a MAGA hat (none / 0) (#82)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 01:05:36 PM EST
    one these times. A MAGA hat and a camoulflage hunting vest.

    Walmart might start giving you things for free.


    Yeah (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 01:11:01 PM EST
    I'm pretty sure they would not do that

    In fact (none / 0) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 01:16:01 PM EST
    A surprising thing about this one and I expect other rural superstores is the employees clearly, if you know what to look for and I do, span the political spectrum.

    I imagine the size of the company contributes to this.  They do not use the same qualifiers for employment local businesses might.  Like what church you go to.

    So really for me Walmart is an oasis of multiculturalism.


    I live (none / 0) (#86)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 01:39:08 PM EST
    in the exurbs and Walmart is one of the best places to buy international food. It is one of the one places I can find the same jerk rub I had in Jamaica. Now the Hispanic section is the best because we have a lot of Hispanics in my area but other areas of the world are definitely not left out.

    You can view it as a bad thing (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 02:22:20 PM EST
    Or a good thing but the thing is, if you have been in one Walmart Superstore you have been in them all.  Been all over, have friends and visitors from all over and that is the bottom line.  They are all the same.

    I am personally fine with that because no one else around here is going to give me the same selection as the exurbes


    They do not, however (none / 0) (#95)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 03:14:45 PM EST
    all carry the same products. I cannot find the same products at Walmart in PA that you can find in AR or GA.

    Walmart actually does very good data collection on inventory. If something doesn't move at a certain store, they will quit stocking it. I, unfortunately, got used to certain brands of some items while living in Texas, that I just cannot find at Walmart in south central PA. Examples, Pioneer Brand products. Dixie Lily yellow grits. Any kind of salsa (other than Pace) spicier than Mild.


    My biggest (none / 0) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 03:25:31 PM EST
    problem is many times I end up having to go to another store to get things. If you're talking canned tomatoes etc. they have two kinds but there are a number of things I have found that they do not carry at all, specialty type items I guess you would call them. I do emeals and there is always a few things I cannot find.

    Have you asked? (none / 0) (#98)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 03:31:22 PM EST
    They have been pretty good about getting things you ask for in my experience.  Meat, fish, arugula

    What you say makes sense I guess.  If no one buys it.  I think this area is a little more Whole Foods than I expected it to be but I have lived in cities where I would have had to drive farther to find the same stuff.


    well (none / 0) (#103)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 04:39:17 PM EST
    that's kind of the rub. Other stores do have it. So most people just go to another store and get it. Usually it's not that far. Generally what I have been doing lately is ordering from Walmart and picking it up since it is right around the corner from where I work part time. So I know what time I am going to get off work and schedule a pick up. That way I can pick up at Walmart and then go to another store to get the rest.

    I'm thinking of getting a MAGA hat (none / 0) (#101)
    by leap on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 04:00:45 PM EST
    to keep people at a distance. Corona virus, ya know.

    Noam Chomsky: "Bernie Is Vilified Because (none / 0) (#105)
    by NoSides on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 06:02:49 PM EST
    he Has Inspired a Movement"

    Noam Chomsky speaks about the Bernie Sanders campaign, the obstacles standing in its way - and why the US business class will bitterly resist any attempt at social democratic reform.

    Full interview with Chomsky <here>.

    It is a perspective from the left of the political spectrum. A welcome one in my opinion.

    Bernie (none / 0) (#114)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 06:47:34 PM EST
    should suspend his campaign. This is an election, the successes of the movement may be incorporated into the Democratic platform and influence the governance of a Biden Administration.  The passion of Bernie and his supporters needs to continue to assure  that Trump is defeated and a Democratic Administration is, thereby, enabled.  

    How worried do you think (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 06:17:51 PM EST
    Endangered republicans are about this evenings address to the nation?

    Trump is concerned that declaring an emergency would hamper his narrative that the coronavirus is similar to the seasonal flu.

    YEs, (none / 0) (#109)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 06:23:14 PM EST
    my rep made a district wide phone call that I somehow got a call to listen in on. Maybe it is because I call his office regularly to tell him what a putz he is. Anyhow he was reading spin apparently fed to him by some GOP PR flak about how all these kits are just sitting around waiting to be used. I'm wanting to say he's a liar but of course all questions are screened. He kept talking about what Azar says. I'm thinking Azar has not got a clue. Then he had some guy that owns an ambulance company and some public health official here in GA speaking who couldn't pronounce the word "respiratory" right and called it re-spire-a-tory. I just shook my head. We're doomed in GA if this is what we have that is supposed to be managing a pandemic.

    Trump declaring (none / 0) (#111)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 06:36:14 PM EST
    An emergency awaits Jared Kushner's research and recommendation.  

    To be clear (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 11, 2020 at 06:40:27 PM EST
    ... and impart the gravity of the situation. Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the National Basketball Association is suspending its season indefinitely.

    Cynthia Erivo as Aretha on NatGeo Genius (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 08:35:36 AM EST
    This should be good

    Taking a page out of Netflix's playbook, National Geographic will premiere "Genius: Aretha" just before the Emmy qualifying deadline. "Genius" Season 3, starring Cynthia Erivo as the legendary musician, has set a Memorial Day 2020 release date, debuting four episodes on consecutive nights starting Monday, May 25.

    Those four episodes are key. Emmy rules require at least half of the season's episodes to air on or before May 31, and "Genius: Aretha" runs eight episodes. That means the new season will get in just under the wire by hitting its midway mark on May 29. National Geographic Global Television Networks President Courteney Monroe made the announcement from the TCA stage in Pasadena and said the series just started production, so the team shooting in Atlanta will be pushing to finish final cuts in the next few months.

    She probably already has one Emmy nomination for The Outsider

    Debates can be important (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 12:53:31 PM EST
    This might be important.  If it is not it is IMO a missed opportunity.

    Democratic Debate Moved to Washington, DC

    March 12, 2020 at 1:12 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 72 Comments

    Sunday's Democratic presidential debate is being moved from Arizona to Washington, D.C. "out of an abundance of caution" over the spread of coronavirus, Politico reports.

    "The debate, the first one-on-one clash between Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders, was originally scheduled to be held in Phoenix, Ariz. The DNC and CNN, which is hosting the debate alongside Univision, announced earlier in the week that there would be no live audience, spin room or media filing center as campaigns, media organizations and other groups take steps to curb the spread of coronavirus."

    Your head is gonna spin (none / 0) (#130)
    by ragebot on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 01:18:48 PM EST
    if you watch the talking heads spinning after the debate.

    I would almost bet Sanders will have an interview lined up shortly after the debate; it will be interesting to see if Biden keeps limiting his exposure to questions or not.


    I certainly don't wish this but (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 01:15:15 PM EST
    If Trump becomes ill because of the Cronovirus, there might be a God

    I've had MSNBC on all day. (none / 0) (#135)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 03:33:22 PM EST
    I thought it was a news channel. But it's more of a remake or sequel to Dumb and Dumberer. It's Dumb, Dumber, Dumberer and Dumbererer. (they keep showing clips of orange jesus and the white haired elf).

    Well (none / 0) (#144)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 07:28:14 PM EST
    I went to Walmart today and yes, they were sold out of toilet paper along with cleaning supplies and bleach.

    I went to Costco. No toilet paper there, either. (none / 0) (#154)
    by vml68 on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 09:55:50 PM EST
    I was told they were also out of paper towels but I wasn't looking for any so did not care.
    I did notice that they were almost out of bottled water, rice, boxed mac and cheese, ramen and other similar dry goods. There were signs on some of the items saying that customers would be limited to two.
    The store I went to is usually pretty empty on weekdays, today it was packed!

    I went to my local (none / 0) (#156)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 04:30:59 AM EST
    store and got everything I needed -- food and supplies. There were empty shelves but not for anything I wanted. I was less concerned about toilet paper than rubber gloves, large trash bags and laundry and dishwasher detergent.  And bandaids.

    I think I'll make a run to the spirits store tomorrow and stock up on Ketel One and Patron and a few bottles of Sauvignon Blanc.

    I have federal court in the morning in a multi-defendant case -- the clients' appearances have all been waived. I'm not sure what to think about going to the jail, if I had my way I'd suspend all criminal cases since I doubt there will be any jury trials until the impact of the pandemic is clearer.


    A hot to tip from me (none / 0) (#167)
    by Towanda on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 01:36:32 PM EST
    as I am so old that I shopped for bulk supplies before Costco, Sam's Clib, etc.
    I bought tp in bulk at Office Depot. Seriously, that's where small businesses and offices shopped.

    Our supply was low, so Spouse Towanda took my tip and drove past our megagrocery store across the road, past our Costco and Walmart and Target two miles down the road, -- all of which were, um, wiped out, according to neighbors --  and went another mile to Office Depot. Supplies of tp were plentiful there yesterday. And we did not hoard so ledt plenty for others.

    But now that I have shared this tip, with neighbors and others, move fast.


    I was in a supermarket this morning (none / 0) (#169)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 02:25:12 PM EST
    There was two ladies who did not look like the brightest bulbs one had a cart full of toilet paper the other had two carts full of toilet paper with a few paper towels.

    The checkout lady who I know shot me an eye roll


    ... to the state's prisons and jails for 30 days. I'm not sure whether that applies to federal facilities at Metro L.A., Lompoc, Victorville, Solano, Terminal Island, etc.

    Personally, Jeralyn, given the present situation we're in, I think your suggestion of suspending further criminal proceedings until the emergency has passed is certainly well worth considering and discussing. Perhaps you should broach the subject with a federal judge you know.



    It's far from over, (none / 0) (#152)
    by NoSides on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 09:51:17 PM EST
    but Chelsea Manning has been freed.
    Unjustly persecuted and jailed for years, she attempted suicide upon several occasions - the most recent one being a few days ago.

    Her release from prison is rare victory for justice and human rights in America. A rare breathe of fresh air.

    The information she helped bring to our attention is shattering.

    She is a profile in courage.

    <Manning freed>.

    A beautiful performance (none / 0) (#155)
    by NoSides on Thu Mar 12, 2020 at 10:49:10 PM EST
    First (none / 0) (#158)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 11:53:12 AM EST
    Louisiana Postpones Democratic Primary

    March 13, 2020 at 12:17 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 59 Comments

    "Louisiana has postponed its presidential primaries set for next month, becoming the first state to take the step as fears about the coronavirus outbreak spread," CNBC reports.

    "The state will push back its nominating contests to June 20 and July 25."

    A Seattle research project was reportedly told not (none / 0) (#159)
    by NoSides on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 11:56:25 AM EST
    to conduct coronavirus tests on swabs from flu patients -- a missed opportunity early in the US outbreak

    Federal officials told a Seattle research lab not to test flu swab samples for coronavirus in January, before the outbreak took hold of Washington state, according to The New York Times.  

    Researchers at the Seattle Flu Study told The Times that they had repeatedly asked state and federal officials if they could begin testing their flu samples for coronavirus in January, but were unable to cut through red tape.

    Your tax dollars at work.

    link? (none / 0) (#160)
    by leap on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 11:57:36 AM EST

    Here is (none / 0) (#161)
    by NoSides on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 12:26:33 PM EST
    the <link>

    thank you (none / 0) (#164)
    by leap on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 12:55:07 PM EST
    Republicans are bad for our health, safety, sanity, pocket-book...They are just all around evil, incompetent, useless, and a waste of and on our precious resources.

    I agree (2.00 / 1) (#184)
    by NoSides on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 03:27:29 PM EST
    with you.

    The only thing I would add, and what separates me from some in this group, is that I feel that your characterization: "bad for our health, safety, sanity, pocket-book...They are just all around evil, incompetent, useless, and a waste of and on our precious resources" is also applicable to the other side of the aisle.

    With, I must add, the exception of Sanders - who hasn't a prayer.


    A lot more than that (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 03:51:17 PM EST
    Separates you from "this group"

    I (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by FlJoe on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 05:48:10 PM EST
    agree, Saint Bernie and his acolytes are too holy for for the Democratic party. So kindly pi$$ off.

    After the SARS coronavirus (none / 0) (#166)
    by jondee on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 01:17:03 PM EST
    outbreak in 2002, a lot of people wanted to go to work immediately to develope a vaccine that might very well be effective against against the present outbreak, but interest for whatever obscure reasons couldn't be sustained..

    Because, I would guess (none / 0) (#185)
    by NoSides on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 03:31:22 PM EST
    our government didn't think it was worthwhile spending the money to safeguard our health.

    Coronavirus: Survival of the Richest! (none / 0) (#168)
    by NoSides on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 01:37:24 PM EST
    A hilarious but unfortunately accurate portrayal of what we are being faced with - the virus - and even worse - the "response" by government.

    <Jonathan Pie>

    From my homie in Italy (none / 0) (#170)
    by ragebot on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 02:27:20 PM EST
    Taiwan experts provide a simple self-check that we can do every morning.
    Take a deep breath and hold your breath for more than 10 seconds. If you complete it successfully without coughing, without discomfort, stiffness or tightness, etc., it proves there is no Fibrosis in the lungs, basically indicates no infection. In critical time, please self-check every morning in an environment with clean air.
    Serious excellent advice by Japanese doctors treating COVID-19 cases: Everyone should ensure your mouth & throat are moist, never dry. Take a few sips of water every 15 minutes at least. Why? Even if the virus gets into your mouth, drinking water or other liquids will wash them down through your throat and into the stomach. Once there, your stomach acid will kill all the virus. If you don't drink enough water more regularly, the virus can enter your windpipe and into the lungs. That's very dangerous.

    FactCheck.org (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by jondee on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 03:42:54 PM EST
    Is saying that a lot of that advice is not well-sourced and questionable at best.

    I see that The Donald (none / 0) (#172)
    by smott on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 02:30:15 PM EST
    Is having a do-over presser in a few minutes. Here's hoping the DOW stays green....

    He's going to declare a National Emergency (none / 0) (#173)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 02:36:52 PM EST
    He has been resisting it because he's afraid it would make it look more serious (seriously, that's what they said) but those mean fake news people kept bringing up the fact he had no problem declaring a National Emergency to get money fir his idiotic Wall so some saneish republicans said something like "cut the shi+ and get this done"

    Yep (none / 0) (#176)
    by smott on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 02:45:16 PM EST
    He did do that.
    He has a script but anytime he takes his eyes off it he loses the thread. He was barely coherent at times.
    It's been awhile since I've seen him live. Terrifying.

    This morning (none / 0) (#177)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 02:46:15 PM EST
    Trump Resists Declaring a National Emergency

    March 13, 2020 at 10:02 am EDT By Taegan Goddard 131 Comments

    James Hohmann: "President Trump declared a national emergency last February to divert billions that had been appropriated for the military to fund construction of his wall along the southern border. White House lawyers told Trump he could reprogram that money without the declaration. But the president was determined to announce a national emergency, we reported at the time, for fear of looking weak if he didn't."

    "Thirteen months later, Trump has appeared afraid of looking weak if he does declare a national emergency to respond to the outbreak of the novel coronavirus. He's resisted a growing chorus of pleas from local leaders, as well as congressional Democrats, to declare a national emergency. Under the 1988 Stafford Act, this would enable the Federal Emergency Management Agency to take disaster-level action and free up billions in assistance for states and municipalities on the front lines of the pandemic."

    "Trump's reluctance to claim executive power amid the gravest crisis of his presidency, when he's had a penchant for doing so in less dire circumstances, is one of the more puzzling elements of what has been his administration's muddled and confused response to the outbreak."

    Funny and useless (none / 0) (#175)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 02:44:29 PM EST
    Never Trump Republicans.   They have absolutely no clue what they have released on the world in Donald Trump.

    They are so clueless and helpless it's almost endearing

    Peter Wehner: "The coronavirus is quite likely to be the Trump presidency's inflection point, when everything changed, when the bluster and ignorance and shallowness of America's 45th president became undeniable, an empirical reality, as indisputable as the laws of science or a mathematical equation."

    Right.  Because the people who need convincing so give a shi+ about science and math.

    "It has taken a good deal longer than it should have, but Americans have now seen the con man behind the curtain. The president, enraged for having been unmasked, will become more desperate, more embittered, more unhinged. He knows nothing will be the same. His administration may stagger on, but it will be only a hollow shell. The Trump presidency is over."

    Again.  Really?  They saw him before they elected him and they still don't care.  
    Never Trump republicans should be tolerated for now, they might be useful.  Then after the new president takes office they should be euthanized

    Yeah. He was trying (none / 0) (#178)
    by smott on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 02:47:36 PM EST
    To take an I Told You So victory lap.
    But the MAGAS are never gonna turn on Trump.

    I do agree that we're watching the end of his presidency. Every sentient person who's not a total MAGA knows what they're looking at now.


    Sure (none / 0) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 02:52:42 PM EST
    But they will drag him out of the White House with 35% of the public in tow.

    OTOH (none / 0) (#195)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 05:07:41 PM EST
    The Lincoln Project (republicans against Trump)

    First in a series of commercials to air on FOX

    Grifters.  Episode 1


    How does Mike Pence (none / 0) (#180)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 02:59:32 PM EST
    keep his hair so white when his nose is so brown?

    One thing about this that's chafing me (5.00 / 2) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 03:11:52 PM EST
    I have heard many times that one major reason for not closing the schools is that for many kids the food they get at school is all they get.

    I have not heard anyone say "Wait, WTF?  Did I just read that? That f'ing crazy.  We are worried about a virus when huge numbers of kids in public school only get food at school?  We got bigger problems than viruses people."


    At least 30 million (none / 0) (#194)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 04:34:50 PM EST
    I just heard

    That press conference was a laugher. (none / 0) (#181)
    by desertswine on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 03:08:29 PM EST

    Not in (none / 0) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 03:13:38 PM EST
    A good way.

    They really really screwed up on the swine flu you know.


    MIA, Jared Kushner (none / 0) (#190)
    by KeysDan on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 03:56:09 PM EST
    All the CEOs and Pence, being obsequious in extremis, as a substitute for the cancelled MAGA therapy sessions. But no Jared, the new corona czar. However, Jared must have completed his "research" since Trump announced "two very big words,"  National Emergency (to deal with the hoax).

    Trump calling a National Emergency awaited completion of Jared's research and a recommendation. It has been reported that Jared's research included enlisting his younger brother's wife's father to the cause---Dr. Kurt Kloss, an ER physician.

    Dr. Kloss asked for suggestions on how to combat the viral outbreak by soliciting his Facebook group BAFERDs (bad a*s f***ing E.R. doctors). "I have a direct channel to person in charge at White House" he prefaced his request.

    An odd approach and not as targeted as, maybe, infectious disease/epidemiology experts, it is probably better than Jared reading books as he did when he "solved" the Middle East problem. And, the ER docs had some good ideas, such as nationalizing production of test kits.   Maybe, too, they could have advised Trump not to shake hands, as he did at his news conference. At least, one businessman refused, and gave an elbow bump.

    Paul Krugman (NYTimes, March 13) said it best. We need a leader. What we have is an incompetent, delusional blowhard.


    Trump's QAnon fans (none / 0) (#189)
    by jondee on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 03:52:32 PM EST
    are apparently telling people to drink bleach. I almost wanna say good.

    Baby Q (none / 0) (#193)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 04:25:30 PM EST

    QAnon believers should be living high on the hog these days. The president recently posted a blatantly pro-QAnon meme, and Tom Hanks--the Terminal star who plays an arch-villain role in the QAnon mythos--has come down with the coronavirus.

    Instead, QAnon is in turmoil. The reason: a young upstart with a YouTube account is bossing around the old guard by claiming that he is himself Q.

    QAnon watchers--both believers and non-believers--have been very curious about Q's identity. So it was a big deal last week when Steinbart revealed who Q really is: him! As a result, Steinbart's fans have dubbed him "Baby Q."

    Steinbart initially said he was just following QAnon clues. More recently, though, he's claimed that he actually is Q. How does that make sense? Well...time travel.

    In Steinbart's telling, Q is Steinbart from the future, who's traveled back in time to leave present-day Steinbart clues. This is obviously a lot of nonsense, but plenty of people are getting on board with it!

    It's not clear exactly what kind of scheme Steinbart is running, or if that's even his real name. His Instagram account goes back for more than a year, and features pictures of him or someone who looks like him with Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and the late John McCain--pics that have been fodder for his critics, who see McCain and Graham as deep-state stars. Otherwise, though, it's difficult to learn anything about Steinbart, or what exactly he's gaining by screwing with QAnon fans.

    Bleach can probably only help.



    Stores here overrun (none / 0) (#191)
    by MKS on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 04:00:46 PM EST
    No toilet paper anywhere. Panic in the air.

    And only 5 cases in Orange County.

    We got plenty down here MKS (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by fishcamp on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 05:19:35 PM EST
    I could ship you some.

    VICE (none / 0) (#198)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 at 05:43:55 PM EST