Polls Begin to Close: A Nail-biter or a Landslide?

Update 8:06 p.m. MT: The latest numbers are not encouraging. Trump is now ahead in Ohio, PA, NC, and GA. Trump is on the rails in Arizona. John King keeps comparing Biden's numbers to Hillary's 2016 numbers. I'm not sure they mean that much. He also keeps talking about the "suburban revolt" against Trump. And the changing demographics. But if Trump takes PA, FL, Ohio, WI, NC and MI, I don't see a Democrat win, no matter what Arizona does.

Update 7:31 pm MT: Biden takes Colorado! Hickenlooper wins the U.S. Senate seat, dethroning Trump ally Cory Gardner. John King is talking faster than I can listen. But I suspect Trump will take Florida, Michigan, North Carolina and Texas. I don't know about Ohio or PA.

Update: John King on CNN says Trump is out if Biden takes Ohio. No Republican has ever won the White House without winning Ohio.

Update: 6:30 pm MT: Donald Trump has won Alabama, Mississippi, Oklahoma and Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana; West Virginia; Democrat Joe Biden has won Connecticut, Delaware, Vermont, the District of Colombia, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey and Rhode Island.

Ohio, PA and Florida are still in play. Trump is currentlhy ahead in Michigan. Biden is ahdead in Ohio including the suburbs of Cleveland. Polls close in Colorado in 30 minutes.[More...]

****Original Post**** Polls on the east cost have begun to close. . NBC News has called Indiana for Donald Trump.


Police everywhere are bracing for street protests.

My prediction: Biden and Harris win decisively but not in a landslide.

What network coverage are you watching? Who has the least chatter and least ingratiating pundits?

I'll be updating throughout the evening, please chime in. This is one night no one should feel alone.

< Monday Open Thread | Biden-Harris About to Cross the Finish Line >
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    I am watching movies on FX. (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 07:53:38 PM EST
    Checked HuffPost a couple of times. I have avoided the news for the past couple of days. My stomach has been in knots since Sunday. I just can't watch the non stop talking and prognosticating.

    This election will decide if I have to retire or not. My druthers was work at least a couple of more years. However, I work for a company whose only customer is the United States government. I made the decision a couple of months ago, that I could not live with my self by continuing to work for a company that sells armaments to a government headed by an individual I find so vile and repugnant. Like it or not, but I find the rise of Trump (first time I have typed that name here) and Trumpism to be on par with the rise of Hitler in 1930s Germany. If it cannot be stopped here and now, it will not be stopped and the end of the republic is at hand. Continuing in my job would be tantamount to providing aid and comfort to the enemy.

    If this election does not go well for us, I will most likely become an enemy of the state. I will find like minded folks and join whatever efforts are out there to bring down any government headed by this orange moron, by any means necessary.

    Why not just (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 08:25:03 PM EST
    move to another country? No need to become an enemy of anyone. There are plenty of countries you can move to and have a good and comfortable lifestyle without working (assuming you get social security)

    I am physically limited. (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 09:02:06 PM EST
    I cannot stand or walk for more than a few minutes at a time. Moving to another country with my mobility issues is daunting. And where would I go? Americans have limited options. And with the surge in COVID-19 cases, I would expect those options to get fewer.

    I would leave tomorrow if I thought I was able. I have a sister in China, a cousin in Mexico City. I should have left for Ireland like I wanted to in 2016. I was still able to get around back then.


    I can relate. (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 09:19:40 PM EST
    I can only stand for about 90 seconds before the crippling stomach and/or tailbone pain hits. Makes it hard to do anything,even simple things like making coffee, much less moving to Seattle. Still not sure how I managed that feat.

    Saw a new Dr. today with hopes that a fresh pair of eyes would help. But no, the only thing it accomplished was getting my pain killers taken away. Grrrrrrr.


    Hang in MileHi... (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by fishcamp on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 09:30:49 PM EST
    Sorry to hear things are not so good, but great to hear from you. Your presence has been missed.

    Thank you for the kind words. (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 09:59:35 PM EST
    I'm trying to hang on but so many days it is oh so tempting to give up. It helps having family around me now. I promised myself long ago that my Mom would not have to see me go before her, so I keep fighting for her and the rest of the family. But I know how hard it is on them to see me now (under 100 lbs and basically bedridden) and have to listen to me screaming in agony and not be able to do anything about it.

    I guess nobody ever guaranteed life was fair.


    Oh Jeezus, MileHi. I am so sorry to hear (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by vml68 on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 10:25:20 PM EST
    you are suffering so much. Why in G0d's name did your new doctor take your pain pills away?
    I hope you find another doctor that is more helpful.
    I know it's 3 days early but I am going to wish you a Happy Birthday, anyway. Take care of yourself. Sending a ton of good healing vibes your way.

    The way of the World these days. (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 11:23:25 PM EST
    I was warned that would probably happen before I moved. Docs are afraid of the Feds coming after them, so unless you have cancer they won't prescribe opioids for more than a couple of weeks.

    Thanks for the BD wishes and the good vibes! All I want for my BD is Trump gone.

    On the plus side, my new place is nice, even comes with a view of Lake Washington. Not the urban vista of my old place - lots of trees and no busy, dirty, noisy street. I've been coming to Mercer Island for years and years, so it is somewhat comfortable for me here. Not home, but still.

    It's a retirement place with continuing care, so shouldn't have to move again. I am the youngest person here, so everyone is just itching to meet me. I've been quarantining so I'm sure it's killing them. Dinner comes at 4:30, which is brunch for me.

    Today was the first day it rained since I've been here but I know I'll miss the Colorado sunshine.

    Hope you are well!


    You are amazingly adaptive. Best wishes. (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 11:44:54 AM EST
    ohmygosh, MileHi (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by leap on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 10:51:39 PM EST
    How awful. I'm glad you are around family. That has to help. Maybe you need to find a different doctor.

    So sorry, and I empathize (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Towanda on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 09:40:52 PM EST
    I had retired with hopes to travel, but my postpolio syndrome has taken too much from my legs to stand, or to walk for long. And stairs are agony,

    We still might have made travel doable, as my spouse long has literally carried a lot of the load, even though he is several years older. But my retirement coincided with his diagnosis of Parkinson's. We are quite a pair!

    But moving closer to my daughter has meant help when we need it, so we are not moving again. And thank heavens that we moved in time from the old house with lots of stairs and no bathroom on the first floor to a single-floor condo.

    I had so wanted to get back to Ireland. But I am grateful to have gotten there at all.


    My aplogies, I did not know (none / 0) (#12)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 09:05:54 PM EST
    about your mobility issues. I totally understand why you would not be comfortable starting over in a unfamiliar location.

    My friend Nico (none / 0) (#18)
    by ragebot on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 09:35:50 PM EST
    who lives in Mexico City just suffered through the death of both of his parents; victims of COVID-19.  He is a young guy, 28, who shares my passion for making moving pictures but is convinced Mexico is hiding the true extent of COVID-19 deaths.  I was shocked when he openly told me he trusts the cartels more than the Mexican government.  Just for the record I am not buying there have been no new COVID-19 cases in China.

    As unhappy as I am with how the US response to COVID-19 has been it is a sad state of affairs that the US is way ahead of many other places.


    My sister lives in Nanjing. (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 10:38:16 PM EST
    COVID-19 is very much under control there. Everyone, without exception, wears a mask. Most bldgs still do temp chex. But there is no spread. Believe what you want.

    Asians have had concern for their fellow citizens for a long time. When I lived in Japan 50 yrs ago, it was a common sight to see Japanese wearing face masks in public during cold and flu season. 50 years ago! Americans suck.


    They called a win for Hickenlooper too. (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 09:00:21 PM EST
    Not unexpected but nice to hear all the same.

    Bye-bye Cory, you good for nothing piece of human excrement. Good luck selling tractors to all the farmers you helped bankrupt.

    I was very excited to hear that (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 09:07:10 PM EST
    Hickenlooper won. Cory Gardner was just a Trump puppet. He's the first Senate seat to turn, and according to CNN, we need three more.

    PA will not be decided tonight. (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 09:06:18 PM EST
    Maybe not even tomorrow. Legally they cannot begin counting mail in ballots until today. And some counties will not even do that. They focus their attentions on the same day voting on election day. I saw a news story about Dauphin County. The election administrator there said flat out, they will not be counting mail in ballots today. Dauphin County includes Harrisburg, which usually goes Dem.

    Local NPR just opined that PA's absentee (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Peter G on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 09:32:16 PM EST
    and mail-in votes cannot be counted fully until Friday, given the state legislature's refusal (R obstruction, trying to coerce a deal from D's to ban drop-boxes) to allow counting to begin before Election Day. The machines can do 10,000/hour, but even at that rate it will take more than two days!

    Pa Dems (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 01:46:42 PM EST
    are predicting Biden carries Pa by anywhere from 70K to 100K when all the votes are counted. Yay!!! These are the people who are watching the numbers. That means AZ, NV, GA and NC are just gravy outside of the senate races.

    I feel like I can take a nap now.

    Georgia (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 05, 2020 at 05:29:53 AM EST
    is down to 18K lead by Biden with 98% reporting.

    I hope (none / 0) (#1)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 06:24:18 PM EST
    I hope it is a landslide. No mater which one wins.

    Ugh Florida (none / 0) (#2)
    by CST on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 06:26:27 PM EST
    My nails are already gone.

    No sh!t. (none / 0) (#3)
    by vml68 on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 06:44:28 PM EST
    I have been obsessively refreshing the page for my county's results.
    About 94% of the vote tallied. Biden with a slim 3k vote lead. (Provisional and Overseas ballots not included)

    Panhandle is still out though (none / 0) (#4)
    by CST on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 06:45:19 PM EST
    Trump is almost certainly winning Florida.

    Unofficial Results for Pinellas (none / 0) (#7)
    by vml68 on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 07:14:57 PM EST
    with 100% of precincts reporting. Biden ahead by a slim 1300 votes.
    Now, I am going to hope and pray that all the prognosticators were right and Pinellas is a predictor for the rest of Florida.

    Florida (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 06:46:12 PM EST
    I am afraid is going to remain red.

    Polls are now closed in Pennsylvania (none / 0) (#6)
    by Peter G on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 06:53:50 PM EST
    ... except for folks who were waiting in line at 8, who are entitled to vote in person no matter how long that may take. And of course mail-ins continue to be counted, and may arrive (if not post-marked later than today) and be counted through Friday. Florida, damn!

    Of the three possible outcomes (none / 0) (#19)
    by ragebot on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 09:40:37 PM EST
    Biden winning early going away seems to be the first one to be gone.

    A tight Biden win or a tight Trump win are still in play; but what worries me most is not the delay in counting the votes but how long the multiple court cases will drag out.

    On the bright side unlike last year it looks like I will be able to get a good nights sleep.

    Graham wins (none / 0) (#21)
    by ragebot on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 09:42:57 PM EST
    and is complaining about his victory in what seems to be the most expensive Senate in history.

    Such a disappointment (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Peter G on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 10:44:22 PM EST
    is that one. I was really hoping for a miracle in South Carolina.

    Graham (none / 0) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 04:27:47 AM EST
    is an international embarrassment but he is from SC after all and the state excels in sending embarrassments to Washington.

    Looks like its up to (none / 0) (#23)
    by desertswine on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 10:22:29 PM EST
    PA, OH, MI, and WI.

    Jeralyn, have you found (none / 0) (#25)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 10:34:34 PM EST
    another country to which you may legally immigrate?

    Lots of talking heads (none / 0) (#29)
    by ragebot on Tue Nov 03, 2020 at 11:02:59 PM EST
    are pondering how the polls could be so wrong.  In the span of one hour earlier this evening the betting has gone from 70% of the money on Biden to 78% of the money on Trump, and then dropped to 65% of the money on Trump.  No matter who wins the claims that Biden was favored to win in the 90% range was not simply wrong but wrong even more than the claims in 2016 that Hillary was favored to win.

    As a sailor I closely follow the weather and most of us have complained about weather men being wrong as much as they right and still keep their jobs, seems like political polls are even worse than weather reports.

    I could name probably a dozen states where Biden had a double digit lead before today and he is now losing or fighting tooth and nail in a cliff hanger.

    And this is not just limited to the prez race.  Several of the Senate races that were suppose to be close seem to be easy wins for the pubs.

    Hang in there, everyone. (none / 0) (#31)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 12:21:05 AM EST
    Most of the votes that are still outstanding are in Democratic urban strongholds, and a lot of it consists of the early vote cast prior to today.

    One-third of Pennsylvania's population resides in and around Peter's hometown of Philadelphia, and most of that vote has yet to report. Detroit and Milwaukee have yet to report and again, most of that is early voting.

    We've got two major local mayoral races out here in Hawaii County (Big Island) and Honolulu, so I've got one eye watching for those results, too.


    Yes. Milwaukee results m ing along (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Towanda on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 12:38:04 AM EST
    in counting of mail and early ballots -- counting nit allowed until today, owing to our Republican legislators -- and now estimated for 3 a.m. Central time. ((Wisconsin also insanely requires that the count continue without rest, literally, which is why we will have results days sooner than in Pennsylvania.)

    And ballots still are being counted in Brown County, with Green Bay, and Dance County, with Madison, although the numbers will not have the imoact of the county in Milwaukee.

    The total of outstanding ballots makes a win for Biden/Harris still possible in Wisconsin, say the local analysts.

    I would be surprised -- but heck, we even made Waukesha County a bit bluer. You're welcome.


    *moving along* (none / 0) (#35)
    by Towanda on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 12:38:49 AM EST
    UPDATE: Milwaukee delivered, big time. (none / 0) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 04:36:21 AM EST
    As of 12:50 a.m. HST (4:50 A.M. CST):

    Biden (D): 50% (1,572,151 votes)
    Trump (R): 49% (1,553,512 votes)

    Still waiting on Green Bay, but that favored Hillary Clinton in 2016.


    And wautung on Kenosha (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Towanda on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:28:01 AM EST
    where the violence may have hurt Dems.

    Plus there are pockets of votes still not reported from other, redder areas.

    It's still too close. Within recount territory by Wisconsin law, and a recount could make it even uglier here. One of the Michigan kidnap plotters is a Wisconsinite and not alone.

    And could it mean that Clinton wasn't a "flawed candidate;" after all?


    The late Maya Angelou ... (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:50:41 AM EST
    ... once counseled us, "When someone shows you who they really are, believe them the first time."

    Rep. Adam Schiff told us last February, "Truth matters little to him. What's right matters even less, and decency matters not at all."

    Time and again, Donald Trump has told and shown us who he really is. Given tonight's electoral results, perhaps it's our own decency as an American people which should be called into question.



    The meme (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by MO Blue on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 08:49:23 AM EST
    "This is not who we are." is a unproven statement when applied to the country as a whole. For too many, this is exactly the country that they want.

    Agreed. (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 08:37:58 PM EST
    For Americans to have elected Donald Trump once, well, that can perhaps be written off as an aberration and freak occurrence, a dreadful mistake in collective judgment that most of us thought was unlikely to be repeated this year.

    But that said, and now knowing who Trump is, for tens of millions of people to double down and vote for him again in 2020 is something entirely different. How else to explain it other than as a mass affinity for ignorance, stupidity, racism, xenophobia, homophobia and misogyny? Call it the unbearable whiteness of our being.  

    Apparently, a large portion of the country isn't prepared to repudiate Trump for behavior that included willfully incompetent mismanagement of the COVID pandemic, funneling tens of millions of dollars in federal money into his own businesses, inviting foreign countries to meddle in our elections, and stoking the most racist and extremist right-wing sentiments we've seen in over 50 years.

    And that's just a very frightening thought. And although Trump may be gone, we're going to be dealing with the stench of his toxic presence for a long time to come.

    So, yeah, this is exactly who we are.


    So What Should Be Done About It? (none / 0) (#118)
    by RickyJim on Thu Nov 05, 2020 at 09:51:01 AM EST
    How else to explain it other than as a mass affinity for ignorance, stupidity, racism, xenophobia, homophobia and misogyny?
    Is that different than what was prevalent when the US Constitution was drafted in the summer of 1787?  I hope a committee of scholars drafts one, more appropriate for this century, and posts it online.  After a few years, there maybe overwhelming public sentiment to adopt it.  I think that will happen because polls over a long period show that the populace believes the country is on the wrong track.

    What's needed is for us ... (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 05, 2020 at 03:44:47 PM EST
    ... to finally see the problem for what it is and take it seriously. For years, we've seriously underestimated and even denied the genuinely corrosive effect that a steady diet of right-wing propaganda via Fox News and talk radio has upon their listeners' psyche.

    Personally, I have otherwise-pretty smart relatives who've parroted the most amazing political bull$H!+ things to me, and I know exactly where and how they came to believe such cockamamie notions. I'm pretty sure that others here can likewise attest to something similar within their own families.

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a conservative point of view. But being conservative does not give one license to publicly assert increasingly outrageous claims about people that aren't even remotely true, nor does being called out for doing so render one a victim of the Deep State.

    For the long-term sake of our democracy, we have to find a way to shut that $chitt down or at the very least, mitigate it to the effect that it no longer permeates and pollutes mainstream political debate.



    I couldn't agree more (none / 0) (#121)
    by jmacWA on Fri Nov 06, 2020 at 05:54:12 AM EST
    denied the genuinely corrosive effect that a steady diet of right-wing propaganda via Fox News and talk radio has upon their listeners' psyche.

    It seems to me that a study should be done of people who are now batšⱨȋṱ crazy to see how many of them spent years listening to drive time Limbaugh, et al, on their commutes.  I know several who would fit into this category.

    It is my personal opinion that the GOP played their long con of dumbing down the population to perfection and Trump is the culmination of their project.  Hopefully now we can begin to rebuild, but it won't be easy.  The education system has failed us to such an extent that now aided by social media there is a lot of heavy lifting to be done.  I read in the local paper about a middle school teacher who said she had to vote for Trump because Biden is a socialist... it's one thing to fool the rubes, but when you fool the people laying the basic education for our children it shows how successful the GOP has been.

    Every Elected/Selected member of the GOP, in all branches of government, at all levels of government MUST go.


    UPDATE No. 2: I think Biden's won WI. (none / 0) (#40)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:32:25 AM EST
    As of 2:45 a.m. HST (6:45 a.m. CST) and per the Associated Press, with 99.95% precincts now reported:

    Joe Biden     1,630,334 (49.6%)   
    Donald Trump  1,609,586 (48.9%)

    It's not called yet, and subject to recount, but with almost everything in, it's hard to see where Trump makes up the ground.

    And as the urban areas start to report, Trump's lead in MI is down to 12,994.

    As I said, hang in there. The numbers are there for Biden to win it.



    I think (we know how much that means this morning) (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:51:58 AM EST
    Trumps performance last night showed he also thought the numbers were there for Biden.

    Everyone who said all Hillary needed to do was go to the rust belt and she would have won should apologize.  Sorry Hillary.
    It wasn't you.  It was the country.

    I guess the polling industry should be burned to the ground.


    Abso (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:58:00 AM EST
    f-ing lutely. Hillary deserves a huge apology from a lot of people. Biden dropped Hispanic votes by 30 freaking points in FL. Hillary was a way better candidate than Biden because she had a hostile press and Russian intelligence to fight none of which Biden has had to deal with on the same scale.

    The need to more aggressively court (none / 0) (#46)
    by MO Blue on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 07:22:04 AM EST
    the Hispanic vote was very obvious to everyone but the Biden campaign. Stupid mistake.

    Well (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 07:59:02 AM EST
    the good news is it did not cost him the election.

    Let's hope they were at least correct (none / 0) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:53:19 AM EST
    About the "red mirage"

    P Wire (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 12:29:06 AM EST
    Don't Expect an Election Call Tonight

    November 3, 2020 at 11:58 pm EST By Taegan Goddard 1048 Comments

    CNBC: "Election results from Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania could take until later this week to complete official tallies."

    Every decision desk is different (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 12:22:46 AM EST
    a lot.  FOX is best for Biden


    This morning (none / 0) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:21:13 AM EST
    things look a lot better for Joe than they did last night. We will not know who won GA until Friday it looks like but the votes coming in are not favorable to Trump.

    2020 and the hits just keep on coming! (none / 0) (#45)
    by coast on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 07:03:07 AM EST
    Only thing decided in this election is that polls are done for.

    Biden (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 08:04:43 AM EST
    has taken the lead in Michigan, according to the AP
    Along with AZ, NV and WI, he now leads in states worth 270 electoral votes--the number needed to win.

    Awesome. Trump is gonna be gone.

    Let's not start... (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 08:32:33 AM EST
    s*cking each others d*cks just yet...it's still razor thin close and we have recounts and court challenges to worry about.  

    But yeah...if Nevada, Wisconsin, and Michigan hold we are in like Flynn.  We don't need PA.  But I won't breath easy until it's official official.  If there's a stunt or scam to pull Trump will pull it...a unethical thief is an unethical thief.


    An "interesting" cautionary phrase. (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 11:49:50 AM EST
    Not mine old friend... (none / 0) (#117)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 05, 2020 at 08:45:20 AM EST
    that's a Tarantino line delivered so eloquently by the great Harvey Keitel as Mr. Winston Wolf in Pulp Fiction.

    He solves problems!


    How could I have forgotten (none / 0) (#119)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 05, 2020 at 10:09:01 AM EST
    Best thing abou Wisconsin recount. (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Towanda on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:28:40 PM EST
    He has to pay in advance. An estimated $3 million.

    Let's see if he really is willing to do so -- when even Scott Walker, who has been through recounts, said today that requesting a recount would be futile.p, with a 20,000+  margin.


    it'll be campaign money (none / 0) (#102)
    by Yman on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 07:01:27 PM EST
    As cheap as Donald can be with his own money, he has no trouble spending other people's money.

    And campaign finance law does not permit (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Peter G on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 07:12:09 PM EST
    a candidate to keep leftover donations as if they were personal gifts. Assuming he were to comply with campaign finance law. So saving $3 million in recount costs does not net Tr*mp any personal profit. Typically vendors to losing candidates wind up getting paid less than they are owed. That's where that $3 million would otherwise go. Sign printers, hat makers, advertising producers, etc.

    WI (none / 0) (#60)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 10:50:51 AM EST
    has been called for Biden. It's unlikely that Trump is going to win MI + NV and that's the ballgame folks. There are going to be no court challenges other than bogus ones from Trump it seems.

    Do you think (none / 0) (#49)
    by jmacWA on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 08:25:38 AM EST
    there is still a chance of Biden taking GA?  I can't seem to find where the uncounted votes are... If they are Atlanta metro area then I would think there is still a chance

    Atlanta Metro (none / 0) (#50)
    by CST on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 08:31:15 AM EST
    had a water main break so they decided not to count mail in ballots last night.  I believe that is a large portion of the outstanding votes and should flip hard for Biden.  Not clear yet if it will be enough.

    I think (none / 0) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 10:51:30 AM EST
    he has a good chance if what I have read is right and that is there are 500K ballots from deep blue collar counties.

    Susan Collins dips below 50% (none / 0) (#52)
    by CST on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 08:33:20 AM EST
    This morning.  Maine has ranked choice voting so that is a significant development.

    I have not seen a reliable, credible report (none / 0) (#53)
    by Peter G on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 08:46:21 AM EST
    of whether the Dems have or have not failed to win the Senate, and if not clear, then what is outstanding to make the difference. Can anyone lay that out plainly, please?

    So far Dems are +1 (none / 0) (#55)
    by CST on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 08:49:44 AM EST
    Because Kelly + Hickenlooper - Jones.

    Georgia has two seats up for grabs and it is unlikely either gets decided now, they are probably both headed to a runoff.

    The other close seats all look like R wins, with the possoble exception of Susan Collins, as described above.

    Dems need at least 1 GA seat plus ME to have 50 senators, or both GA seats without ME.


    So, at best the Senate goes 50-50 (none / 0) (#56)
    by Peter G on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 09:09:22 AM EST
    with the Vice President as tie-breaker? Not reassuring, much less an exciting prospect.

    Yup (none / 0) (#57)
    by CST on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 09:29:06 AM EST
    And that 50-50 is a longshot right now.

    Even if we get absolutely nowhere... (5.00 / 6) (#58)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 09:52:25 AM EST
    the next 4 years with a Republican controlled senate, not being embarrassed by our president multiple times every damn day feels will feel like winning the World Series.

    Agreed. (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by KeysDan on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 10:48:29 AM EST
    While greatly disappointing and concerning, ousting fascist governments by voting has been difficult historically, worldwide. And, apparently, it will be a step-wise process to not only be rid of Trump, but also,  Trumpism.

    A Biden presidency will save democracy, or at least, pump the brakes while Article II governance is restored. No DeJoy, DeVos, Pompeo, Stephen Miller. et. al. And, some Republican senators may become pragmatic on occasion, as did the always troubled Susan Collins who may have saved her  bacon with her vote against the Handmaiden (and whose vote Moscow Mitch did not need).

    Joe Biden's greatest contribution as president, may well be his defeat of Trump, the rest is gravy--keeping in mind that that gravy boat still holds substantial lawful executive action.


    Yes (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 10:53:36 AM EST
    someone said think about the fact that we are now going to control the DOJ, the EPA etc. That's not nothing and 2/3 of DC.

    Then there's always adding 2 senate seats in DC.


    It's certainly (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by CST on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 11:08:43 AM EST
    Not nothing.

    But I don't think we can add a state without already having the Senate.


    Who gets to (none / 0) (#70)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 12:09:05 PM EST
    decide which bills to bring forth for votes or not (the way McConnell and other past Senate Majority leaders have done) if there is no Senate majority?
    I mean, do the Democratic and Republican Senate party leaders get to mud wrestle for the privilege, or what?

    Good news bad news (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 10:57:07 AM EST
    There really was shy Trump voters.  I guess it's good they felt some shame about it.

    20% of Trump Voters Kept It Secret from Friends

    November 4, 2020 at 12:08 pm EST By Taegan Goddard Leave a Comment

    Some interesting findings from a post-election Public Opinion Strategies (R) survey:

    Donald Trump won the 30% who voted on Election Day by 26 points (59% for Trump/33% for Biden).
    Late deciders broke heavily towards Trump. Among voters who decided in October or later (11% of the electorate), Trump won by 16 points (51% Trump/35% Biden/14% Third Party Candidate).
    Trump continued to enjoy crushing margins among non-college white men (67% Trump/27% Biden)
    Joe Biden did win seniors, but by just one point (48% Trump/49% Biden).
    There were more "shy Trump voters" than "shy Biden voters." Nineteen percent (19%) of Trump voters said they kept their support for Trump a secret from most of their friends, compared to just 8% of Biden voters.

    I (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by FlJoe on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 01:04:45 PM EST
    have one question for these jamokes, WTF are you so ashamed of?

    Will Pelosi remain speaker? (none / 0) (#65)
    by coast on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 11:13:08 AM EST
    Given the projected numbers for the House, will she maintain her speakership or will she be challenged?

    I believe (none / 0) (#66)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 11:20:36 AM EST
    she said she would be stepping down in 2020. So I guess it will be a free for all as to who is speaker.

    Didn't know that (none / 0) (#67)
    by coast on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 11:29:14 AM EST
    Should be interesting to see who steps up.

    Some random thoughts (none / 0) (#73)
    by ragebot on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 02:04:18 PM EST
    The dems really did a bad job in this election.  

    My take is the biggest mistake they made is spending probably more than $US200,000,000 in KY and SC Senate races both of which they lost while taking a beating in House races where the money would have been better spent.  Not only did the dems not expand their majority in the House they will likely lose some seats there.

    By most accounts the pubs will also retain the Senate.  Collins seems to win by much more than I expected.  Seems like packing the SC is out of the question now as well as adding new states.

    While Biden seems to have an edge in getting to 270 I am still up in the air about who will be prez.  Not much question there will be a recount in WI; not that I think it will change much.  I have no idea what the outcome of the multiple existing and planned court cases will wind up doing other than delaying any real certification of the EC electors.  

    Bottom line is the dems underperformed in the Senate and House races and even if Biden wins they underperformed in the prez race as well.  But the real question is how the court cases wind up.

    Nope (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 02:52:30 PM EST
    because it made Mitch McConnell empty his pockets to keep a red seat. We had plenty of money and will continue to have plenty of money. The GOP is heavily dependent on funding from fossil fuel industries. So their money is drying up.

    Biden is going to be president. It's looking like GA will flip taking Trump out of the equation. He's already lost MI and WI and is losing PA. Those three are the game and Trump can sit around and wait for the indictments to roll out.


    You really missed the point (none / 0) (#83)
    by ragebot on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 04:30:27 PM EST
    If the dems had plenty of money why did they not spend some of it on the 5-10 house seats they will wind up losing.  I just saw an op-ed that used the figure of $US350,000,000 the dems spent on six senate seats the pubs wound up winning.

    Both McConnell and Graham wound up winning going away.  Not to mention Bloomberg spending who knows how much for no obvious return.

    Maybe the biggest waste of money was what the dems spent on polls.  While I was kinda shocked by how bad the polls were in 2016 now I am numb to how much worse the polls were in 2020.


    Dude (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 04:45:31 PM EST
    do you realize that every candidate was flush with money? Probably they didn't rush in because the data didn't show they needed to.

    Using that money in places like SC again emptied the pockets of Mitch McConnell. All the candidates had money for the most part. I know you're sore about having to spend money in red states to defend cretins like Leningrad Lindsay but it is what it is.

    You don't think the GOP spent a ton of money on polls? To be honest though money spent on polls was way better money spent than giving it to Trump who stole the money and lined his own pockets with it.  


    Do you think (none / 0) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 02:55:44 PM EST
    2004 was a bust for the GOP? This election pretty much mirrors what went on in 2004. The GOP gained senate seats, retained the presidency and lost a few house seats.

    Trump is not going to recount WI. The SOS already said he needs to pay 3 million up front. Do you really think he's going to pay that for a recount he's gonna lose when he can line his own pockets with the money?


    Actually, the Republicans picked up seats (none / 0) (#76)
    by coast on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 03:29:41 PM EST
    in the house in 2004.  I think there is a vast difference between this election and that one.

    Are you kidding?  You don't think the most narcissistic person to hold the office, which is saying a lot, won't pony up $3m for a recount.  I think its a given.  He'll fail, but that won't matter to him.


    I should have (none / 0) (#78)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 03:33:27 PM EST
    said retain the house in 2004. Either way it wasn't billed as a "disaster".

    I just can't see Trump passing up the chance to steal a cool 3 mil from his supporters. Even the idiot Scott Walker says having a recount in WI is an exercise in futility and telling him not to do it. He'll get the money and then make up some excuse why he's actually not doing a recount.


    CNN (none / 0) (#81)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 04:06:18 PM EST
    is reporting that Trump is now not going to ask WI for a recount. So whatever money he got is going straight into his pockets.

    Trump (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 03:30:01 PM EST
    supporters are embarrassing themselves all over the place. The idiots want to stop MI counting and are attempting to break doors down so that the police had to be called. Then they are screaming that Biden is stealing the election in Nevada. So we're already seeing the reaction to Trump losing. I imagine it's only going to get worse with conservative domestic terrorism.

    Trumps lead in GA (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 03:59:28 PM EST
    Is now 68,000 with 400,000 mostly democratic votes to count.

    Yes, it (none / 0) (#82)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 04:06:55 PM EST
    keeps going down but the number of outstanding ballots keeps changing. I understand almost all of them are from Fulton.

    Wonderful if Biden carries Georgia, but (none / 0) (#92)
    by Peter G on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:26:05 PM EST
    I am downright embarrassed -- and a bit frightened -- about whether we will win Pennsylvania. At the current rate, and based on the number of uncounted mail-ins, times the D/R ratio of those, Biden could wind up 100,000 - 200,000 ahead out of more than 6 million votes cast, but who knows. Tickled to see the results in our part of town (the part my wife represents on the Township Board) were over 85% Biden. Talk about living in a bubble!

    Carvill (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:39:15 PM EST
    Just said Biden would win by 100,000.

    Pennsylvania Democratic officials are privately telling Biden campaign officials that they believe final margin of victory for Biden in Pennsylvania will be 100,000 to 200,000 votes when the counting of ballots is finally finished, Politico reports.

    I guess I should be a political consultant (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Peter G on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:48:27 PM EST
    I did the arithmetic myself and got the same result!

    The money's probably a lot better ... (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 08:45:26 PM EST
    ... than what we're presently being paid.

    The predictions (none / 0) (#96)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:41:01 PM EST
    for PA are 70K to 100K win for Biden in PA. What is awful is there are so many people that support Trump. Exorcising fascism is harder than I thought and I thought we were a better country than that. I guess not.

    Even if the margin is only 100,000 (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Peter G on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:56:07 PM EST
    the Supreme Court challenge to votes mailed by Tuesday and received by Friday will be moot. That appears to be amounting to anywhere between a few dozen and maybe 1000 per county (times 67 counties), which -- even if 100% were for Biden -- would not be anywhere near enough to change the result. And hey, here's a talking point for you: military ballots have long been received by mail with a requirement to count them up to ten days after the election. The Tr*mp campaign's demand for a court order against counting any ballots after Tuesday, or at most no ballots received after Tuesday, is another sign of Tr*mp's disrespect for Our Military.

    I believe (none / 0) (#107)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 07:32:44 PM EST
    this estimate is from ballots already received and being counted not ballots that have been mailed.

    But we won't know that for days (none / 0) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:41:34 PM EST
    It could become moot if we get both NV and AZ.  Which look very likely.  And we should by by tomorrow at least.  If not tonight.

    Yeah Peter. (none / 0) (#99)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:49:41 PM EST
    I'm not liking the PA numbers  Republicans seem to be ahead in most statewide races. Are they all that mad at Gov Wolf?

    I know it is not over yet, but I just did not see orange moron coming on this strong in PA. I was sure Joe would would win PA. Makes me very disappointed in the citizens of this Commonwealth.

    Maryland is looking attractive. My wife is from Baltimore and I was born on a US Navy base in MD that no longer exists. So we are both technically native Marylanders. I now work full time from home so I don't have a commute.


    A friend of mine (none / 0) (#106)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 07:30:25 PM EST
    moved to MD and loves it.

    Our #1 Marylander is (none / 0) (#108)
    by Peter G on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 08:12:23 PM EST
    Ms. Zorba.

    FOX has Bidens EV count (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 04:01:44 PM EST
    Ralston (none / 0) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 04:47:02 PM EST
    is making a prediction about NV and if Biden holds NV, that will be the end of all this. Biden will be declared the next president.

    Jon King just said (none / 0) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 05:04:52 PM EST
    We should get a batch at about 8 eastern and again at 12

    From NV (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 05:05:17 PM EST
    NV (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 05:42:19 PM EST
    Although Nevada officials said early Wednesday that no new election results would be released until 9 a.m. on Nov. 5, the Secretary of State's office is now saying more results will be released Wednesday afternoon," KLAS reports.

    Said Deputy Secretary of State for Elections Wayne Thorley: "Obviously, there's a lot of interest in how the vote is going in Nevada and we recognize that. We will have a fairly large update hopefully later today which again get us even closer to final unofficial election results."

    Fulton (none / 0) (#88)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 05:20:11 PM EST
    County is saying they will be done at 9:00 tonight. I guess we will see if that is enough for Biden and possibly force a runoff in the senate.

    Lead is now 57,000 (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 05:21:29 PM EST
    Fulton Co elections director (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 05:58:37 PM EST
    Is saying they will finish tonight.  Maybe by midnight.

    Down to (none / 0) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:38:33 PM EST
    44K now.

    Just heard from GA (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 06:50:47 PM EST
    149,000 left.

    My estimate (none / 0) (#105)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 07:29:00 PM EST
    Biden wins GA by about 25K votes.

    Trump (none / 0) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 04, 2020 at 07:26:59 PM EST
    down to 35K lead with 150 ballots outstanding.

    Georgia's differential is now 18,098. (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 05, 2020 at 05:42:39 AM EST
    Winning Georgia would be huge not just for Joe Biden, but Stacey Abrams and Black Democratic women as well. They've has done a marvelous job to reinvigorate the state's Democratic Party.

    It could also be important for control (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 05, 2020 at 06:12:35 AM EST
    Of the senate.  Alaska will stay red.  Arizona will go blue.  That leaves the GA senate races.  All these late ballots could also get Perdue below 50%.  Last I saw he was 50.2

    The other is going to runoff.  If both go to runoff control of the senate will be right there.


    Correction (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 05, 2020 at 06:16:47 AM EST
    And NC (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 05, 2020 at 06:24:02 AM EST
    Still winnable with a >2% gap and 7% still to report.



    They just said GA hoped to be done by noon (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 05, 2020 at 06:50:09 AM EST