It's Official: Pelosi Announces House Impeachment Inquiry

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi today announced the House will launch an impeachment inquiry against Donald Trump for trying to pressure the Ukraine into investigating Joe Biden.

The process is explained here.

Today, impeachment is a longshot that may or may not succeed, but tonight, no one cares. We're just dancing in the streets.

< Trump's Ukranian Mess | Bernie and the Fever >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    Philadelphia PA (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by Peter G on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 08:48:22 PM EST
    They're dancing in the street.
    Baltimore, and Washington, DC, now.
    And don't forget the Motor City.

    One word: (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 09:04:21 PM EST

    Acting DNI just (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 01:46:16 PM EST
    Threatened to resign if he is instructed to stonewall tomorrow.


    Going out for popcorn and vodka

    The cobbled together White House (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by KeysDan on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 02:10:55 PM EST
    call memo is devastating. But, of course, we need to be vigilant on media misinformation.  For example, Peter Baker, of the NYTimes, can't find an explicit quid pro quo---but he does note that Zelensky talks about US aid and, immediately, Trump raises his desire for a political investigation (I would like you to do us a favor, though).

    The context is important.  Both Zelensky and Trump knew that military aid that Ukraine was to have received was frozen. There was clearly an unstated understanding between the two.

    And, too, there was that asking of a foreign head of state to help him get at a domestic political rival. All the we have been very, very good to you (unlike Germany and France).

    Zelensky was obsequious and assures Trump that he buys US oil, and stayed at the Trump Tower in NYC. Understandable on Zelensky's part, he is trying to get the military aid to fight against Putin, Trump's good friend. He can be a good friend  as well.

    It is useful to keep in mind that impeachment is not a legal, but a political process. And, too, it should be noted that the White House call memo, indicates that Trump wanted Zelensky to investigate not only Biden and son, but also, to look into the "Crowdstrike" matter.

     Crowdstrike being the firm hired by the DNC regarding the email hacking and the firm that identified Russia as being the hackers.

     Trump apparently believes the server is in the Ukraine--a conspiracy pushed by Rudy. This conspiracy seeks to discredit the US intel community's conclusion that Russia was the hacker and lets Putin off the hook.  As Trump tells Zelensky, "I'm sure you will figure it out." And, says Barr is available to help.

    There looks to be bribery, extortion and abuse of power for personal gain. The quo is, explicitly, Trump.

    55% (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 01:55:29 PM EST
    Any other polls out there yet? (none / 0) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 02:38:10 PM EST
    That needle of support moved off 37% rather abruptly. But exactly how dialed in to this emerging scandal are Americans at this point? I'd like to believe that this will likely grab their attention.

    There's a brand new poll just out in California that shows Trump underwater by 38 points with that state's voters, 67-29% -- and that was taken BEFORE this Ukraine scandal broke wide open. Here in Hawaii he's down, 74-26%, and a rather astonishing 81% of women say they plan to vote against him.

    What blows me away is that how the Trump crowd learned absolutely nothing from the Mueller / Russia experience. They just brazenly repeated the original playbook, oblivious to the fact that there were lots of eyeballs now watching them for that sort of thing.

    The truly damning facts here are that Trump unilaterally ordered the withholding of $391 million in military aid already appropriated to Ukraine by Congress and further, even made the July 25 phone call itself with President Zelensky wholly contingent upon the latter's prior agreement to discuss an investigation of the Bidens. Trump is so busted, I really don't know how he blusters his way out of it.



    NPR Has it 49% - 46% (none / 0) (#52)
    by RickyJim on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 03:34:19 PM EST
    Trump is truly unhinged. (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 02:55:31 PM EST
    The Los Angeles Times has obtained an audio recording of his remarks to a group of diplomats in New York, in which he called the whistleblower's source a "spy" with an air of implied menace. The New York Times further reports that the whistleblower is a CIA officer who had been detailed to the White House.

    Tulsi Gabbard sez (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 11:53:55 AM EST
    Impeachment is ok.

    PRAISE JEAsus we are saved

    Praise Krishna (5.00 / 3) (#76)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 02:38:04 PM EST
    I think you mean.

    Oh. My. Gawd. (none / 0) (#71)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 01:26:33 PM EST
    Now we know for sure that it's really serious.



    Trump will be impeached (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 12:04:36 PM EST
    Currently removal is, IMO, 50/50.

    Moving to us.

    Agreed. (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 02:54:02 PM EST
    Actually, in my view, there is enough to impeach with the information now available--assuming corroborating witnesses and documents such as the IG testimony and some of the "half dozen" knowledgeable individuals mentioned by the Whistleblower.

    However, while still maintaining focus, the lens on the Ukraine investigation needs to be broadened so as to fully illustrate the conspiracy, treachery,and Russian backdrop and involvement in the plot.

     It should be made clear, that any Articles of Impeachment are not "just" based on one phone call (as self-incriminating and betraying as it is), but, rather, a longer-term corruption scheme of the president to solicit interference from Ukraine in the 2020 election, with the aid and abetment of administration officials and a private fixer.


    Rest in peace, Joseph Wilson (1949-2019). (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 02:12:52 PM EST
    As we discuss the current Trump whistleblower case, let's please pause for a moment to acknowledge the passing of a no-nonsense career diplomat who called out the Bush administration's bullsh*t rationale for the 2003 U.S.-led inasion of Iraq in a rather remarkable New York Times op-ed, which led to Vice President Dick Cheney's office deliberately blowing the CIA cover of Wilson's then-wife Valerie Plame in retaliation. Ambassador Joe Wilson was a whistleblower extraordinaire, and he's a true American hero.

    A good guy. I spent a day (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by Towanda on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 05:38:38 PM EST
    with him, as his host at our campus, when he campaigned for Clinton. He was easy to meet, excellent at engaging with students and others, gave very thoughtful answers.

    Thanks, Joe Wilson, for your courage.


    A smirk remover..? (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by KeysDan on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 03:16:23 PM EST
    Pompeo was on the July 25 call between Trump and Zelensky.

    But wait! (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 03:41:13 PM EST
    Call NOW and you also get Australia

    Trump reportedly pushed Australian PM to investigate Mueller inquiry - live

    You get the feeling leaks are popping up faster than there are fingers to plug them.


    I think this is the part of the movie (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 03:45:49 PM EST
    Where the rich people start killing each other over the steerage life jackets

    At this point (none / 0) (#141)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 04:00:54 PM EST
    maybe we would be better off trying to guess which countries Trump DID NOT try to shake down. I'm thinking maybe Burma? I have no idea. LOL.

    AG Barr (none / 0) (#144)
    by desertswine on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 04:38:39 PM EST
    has been traveling to the UK and to Italy in an effort apparently to discredit the Mueller report.

    Forgot linkage.. (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by desertswine on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 04:51:33 PM EST
    So (5.00 / 3) (#167)
    by FlJoe on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 10:22:10 AM EST
    there is a 5 alarm fire going on in DC and first Barr and then Pompeo decide to go to Italy.

    To top things off Pompeo is taking Gorka of all people, scary sht.

    Holy smokes... (5.00 / 4) (#188)
    by desertswine on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 12:07:01 PM EST
    Anyone who caught Trump's performance with the pres.of Finland in the room could easily tell that he's off his rocker.  Obviously nuts as h-ll.

    I think he's (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 12:36:27 PM EST
    Losing it even more than he lost it before.

    He's not used to being crossed, and it shows.  He does not seem to have read, or understood, the Constitution, or he believes it does not apply to him.


    538 (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 03, 2019 at 07:56:29 AM EST
    I think republicans are just (4.00 / 1) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 04:00:03 PM EST
    Hoping to look at their shoes until Trump has a complete psychotic break and starts attacking bystanders and rending his garments.

    I (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by FlJoe on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 04:16:36 PM EST
    bet a large majority of them are hoping for a sudden and fatal heart attack.

    I would wager that Pence prays for it morning, noon and night.

    Republicans are probably too cowardly too pull off a 25th amendment solution, although I do think Pence, Pompeo and Barr might try to pull it off. Whitewash all their own complicity by scapegoating the crazy guy.


    Pence may have other (none / 0) (#195)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 05:54:36 PM EST
    I can't see that (none / 0) (#196)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 06:10:45 PM EST
    helping Barr or Pompeo. I can however seeing maybe Devos, Carson and maybe some others attempting to do it. Sure Pence has been lusting after the job ever since he moved into the naval observatory.

    I (none / 0) (#194)
    by FlJoe on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 04:16:44 PM EST
    bet a large majority of them are hoping for a sudden and fatal heart attack.

    I would wager that Pence prays for it morning, noon and night.

    Republicans are probably too cowardly too pull off a 25th amendment solution, although I do think Pence, Pompeo and Barr might try to pull it off. Whitewash all their own complicity by scapegoating the crazy guy.


    Now we see ... (none / 0) (#3)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 05:33:13 AM EST
    the value in her waiting till the appropriate time.

    If she'd held this position all along.

    This announcement would have no value.

    Plus, until the Ukrainian mess was revealed, it was not even a sure thing that she could whip the votes of her own caucus to pass Articles of Impeachment out of the House.

    Pelosi knows what she's doing.

    Maybe (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by CST on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 02:44:50 PM EST
    I'm glad Pelosi is here now and I supported her as speaker.   This doesn't mean people who thought the Mueller report was an impeachment request were wrong.   It just means that Trump can't help himself and politicians are generally cowards.

    FWIW he's not going to be removed over this either.  I really don't understand why so many people were so worried about doing the right thing. Better late than never, but I disagree that "better late than on time".


    I think (none / 0) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 03:44:05 PM EST
    a lot of it was timing. The fact that she was having to go to court to get even tax returns slowed down any impeachment that may have come up. Did congress ever even get the underlying evidence that Mueller had on Trump? The Mueller report while should have been bad enough still needed his assertions backed up with the evidence he gathered.

    One of the big reasons (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by CST on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 05:13:12 PM EST
    People were pushing for an impeachment inquiry is that it would strengthen their case in court to get those documents.

    I heard (none / 0) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 05:31:55 PM EST
    legal arguments both ways. So I was never sure if an impeachment inquiry would help get documents or not.

    If he's talking crazy now (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 11:44:57 PM EST
    We are about to hear weapons grade, industrial strength, bat-chit, tractor pull, job rated, road tested, all-pro, military spec, hall of fame insanity. He will lap George III III or IV times. He's like Caligula without the charm. He's an idiot savant except for the savant part.

    Hillary said you can bait this guy with a tweet. How much will Congress bait him with impeachment? He will continue to shoot his mouth off and add incriminating admissions long before any proceedings begin.


    Orange jesus is already (none / 0) (#45)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 12:54:45 PM EST
    calling the whistleblower and spy and claiming it is treason.

    And should be executed (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 01:15:40 PM EST
    Ehh? Somebody Explain to Me (none / 0) (#4)
    by RickyJim on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 08:33:55 AM EST
    why a President Pence would make you guys happier.

    Pence (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 12:37:08 PM EST
    Is up to his eye balls in this.  Try a google

    Hello President Pelosi


    Pence has the personality (none / 0) (#17)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 12:49:26 PM EST
    of stale Wonder bread. He would excite no one but the out there fundamentalist so-called christians.

    Stale is (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 03:46:52 PM EST
    being nice. To me he's creepy.

    Me too.. (none / 0) (#31)
    by KeysDan on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 05:11:19 PM EST
    An interesting religious background.  Karen (nee Batten)Whitacker met at a Catholic Church where she played guitar. Pence was taken with the young divorcee, and they married in 1985, in a Catholic Church (either the first marriage was annulled or was celebrated in a civil marriage). Pence was raised Catholic, but became a born-again Christian in college, but still called himself Catholic. Ten years after they married, both who were raised Catholic, became Evangelicals in a Megachurch.

    Pence has referred to himself as a Christian, conservative, and Republican--in that order. No ranking for American or patriot, it appears.

     (side note: Mother's first husband was a medial student at the time they were married), and later became a medical researcher at Eli Lilly.  He was involved in the development of the ED drug, Cialis. Lilly recently settled a patent infringement claim)


    He won't (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 03:45:09 PM EST
    but who says that he's not up to his eyeballs in all this do. Remember he was handpicked by Manafort to be Trump's running mate. That's Manafort the Putin stooge.

    Good question (none / 0) (#6)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 09:01:29 AM EST
    I doubt will happen.

      Would a gravely wounded Trump be better, i.e., easer to defeat, than Pence?

    But the GOP may throw Trump over the side if it gets really bad.  They could regain support from the never Trumpers.


    Pence may not (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by KeysDan on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 11:13:37 AM EST
    be out of the woods.  

    Pence is implicated (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by Coral on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 01:45:05 PM EST
    In pressure on Ukraine to dig up dirt on Biden

    Barr too (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by smott on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 07:22:26 AM EST
    He needs to be impeached as well

    If Trump goes (none / 0) (#15)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 12:04:05 PM EST
    and Pence is President, then Kasich could challenge Pence for the nomination.

    Kasich is clean of Trump.  If he gets the Nomination, could be trouble for Dems.  


    I would (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 03:46:07 PM EST
    have agreed with you 3 years ago but since then I would say his record in Ohio is basically identical to Pence's in Indiana.

    "Medicare for All (none / 0) (#38)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 10:14:16 PM EST
    is a framework."

    Armando quotes this as an Elizabeth Warren quote.

    Me, feeling much better about an Elizabeth Warren candidacy.

    She is getting the hang of this politics thing.


    Before we contemplate Step No. 3, ... (none / 0) (#72)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 01:32:17 PM EST
    ... let's please first get past Step No. 1. Unless and until Trump is gone, Mike Pence and John Kasich won't be president or nominee of anything.

    I do think (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 05:25:11 PM EST
    Trump is very likely to win an Impeachment vote in the Senate; and, I am not that sanguine about
    Warren being able to beat him.  That could be a very, very close election.....

    Worse yet, (none / 0) (#86)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 12:07:42 PM EST
    Impeachment does not remove Trump from office but knocks Biden out with all the talk of his son, etc.

    So, Trump shapes the battlefield by knocking out the more moderate candidate, thus leaving him to run against a Leftist, who at least at present does not have much African American support.

    Disaster in River City.


    You think (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 12:10:25 PM EST
    African Americans will just, what, stay home?



    Nope, vote (none / 0) (#91)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 01:54:10 PM EST
    for Elizabeth Warren in Hillary numbers, instead of Obama numbers.  And.....

    If you are going (none / 0) (#92)
    by MKS on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 01:58:36 PM EST
    to lose Moderate voters, better make it up through increased turnout of base, i.e., minority voters....

    Elizabeth Warren as Democratic Nominee will breathe life back into Trump's chances.


    Yup, he's more of a traditional ... (none / 0) (#10)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 10:17:18 AM EST

    So, considerably easier to run against.


    Smoking gun (none / 0) (#5)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 08:59:10 AM EST
    Watergates tapes = transcript read out?

    I think so.

    Ouch, the transcript (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 09:21:21 AM EST
    even worse than I would ever have imagined.

    Pretty Quid Pro Quo-ish


    I would say, as a defense attorney, that (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Peter G on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 07:37:46 PM EST
    that exchange would get to the jury, under the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard, to prove a crime requiring a "quid pro quo."  Proof of a "quid pro quo" need not be express or explicit. The ", though" at the end of Tr*mp's response is enough to show he was linking the two parties' "wants"; he was not changing the subject. Do I remember right that you are a former prosecutor, MKS? Do you agree with this analysis?

    Lawyers, Guns and Money blog (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 09:00:17 PM EST
    I do agree (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 09:06:37 PM EST
    Civil litigator.

    In plain (none / 0) (#37)
    by KeysDan on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 09:19:39 PM EST
    language, "though" is acting as a conjunctive.  As for "quid pro quo",  it is as if  those who don't see it are expecting a signed, notarized contract detailing the this's for that's.

    I think to some degree (none / 0) (#44)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 12:53:27 PM EST
    it's like what Cohen said to Congress. He speaks in code. And like Schiff says, he sounds like a mob boss speaking on a tapped line.

    Pretty safe to say (none / 0) (#8)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 09:29:11 AM EST
    we will have an Impeachment Trial in the Senate.....

    Don't see how the House does not vote to Impeach.


    That transcript was just a summary.. (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by desertswine on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 10:09:42 AM EST
    I wonder what was left out.

    DOJ OLC (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by KeysDan on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 11:10:05 AM EST
    asserts that the DNI does not have to provide the full complaint to Congress.   Hope the impeachment of Barr is thrown into the mix. Barr is already claiming he knows nothing.  Guess that mafia-like offer of having Barr help in the investigation of a Trump opponent. (along with Rudy) never got to Barr.

    Probably (none / 0) (#11)
    by FlJoe on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 10:18:46 AM EST
    the part where tRump mentions that  Ukraine girls are really hot.

    Ukraine Girls (none / 0) (#12)
    by Steve13209 on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 10:37:06 AM EST
    Those Ukraine girls really knock me out
    They leave the West behind...

    A better analogy for the Watergate tapes (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 05:19:02 PM EST
    Might be this referenced "secret file" where they put all the looney toons conversations Trump has with foreign leaders they don't want anyone to know about.

    Along with the Ukraine one.

    How many people might be involved in just that?  

    I'm bettin a lot of energy is right now being focused on finding and unlocking that file.


    Politico (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 05:28:04 PM EST
    Trump and Zelinski live (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 01:09:08 PM EST
    Is better than science fiction.

    Holy hell.

    He's talking about Ms Universe

    Oh my god (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 01:16:56 PM EST
    Republicans are cringing, weeping and making future plans watching this.

    He is untethered


    Zeliniski thought bubble (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 01:18:25 PM EST
    More than anything, I want this to be over.

    "The other shoe just dropped." (none / 0) (#25)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 03:36:56 PM EST
    Seems like an appropriate phrase for the past few days, from comedian John Mulaney.

    If you've never seen standup comedian John Mulaney, you must watch his videos (several are on youtube).

    From "John Mulaney: The Comeback Kid."

    Setup: Mom loves Bill Clinton - they went to college together. Dad decidedly does not.

    Let's flash forward five years to 1997. It is now 1997. I am a sophomore in high school, Bill Clinton is in his second term as president. And on the morning that the Monica Lewinsky scandal breaks on the cover of The New York Times. It had been on the Drudge Report, and then it was on the cover of The New York Times.

    That morning, I wake up to the newspaper hitting me in the face. I am a teenager asleep in bed, and the newspaper hits me in the face and falls open on my stomach. And I open my eyes to see my dad standing there dressed for work, and he says, "The other shoe just dropped."

    And then my dad went in to work to find out that his law firm had been hired to defend Bill Clinton.

    I (none / 0) (#30)
    by FlJoe on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 04:24:52 PM EST
    was working in a phone room the previous evening, 5 minutes before we started shift the boss came running in telling us to drop everything, Dick Morris had called, needed 300 interviews stat.

    We grumbled as starting a project like that on the fly was a royal pain. Once we read the script we saw the reason for the rush.

    Dick Morris actually called me up and boy did he sound desperate. We delivered on time, sex and politics keeps everyone interested.


    From The Guardian:

    "[T]he complaint is a record of a months-long attempt by Trump to extract from Ukraine two silver bullets, one that would 'prove' his opponents cheated in the last election, and one that would win him the next election.

    "If that seems like a lot to hope for from Ukraine - if the plan seems a bit implausible, wild even - no one, of any political stripe, can be heard at the moment to be saying that it was a good plan."

    "But the complaint indicates with damning detail that that was indeed the plan; that Trump went a long way toward carrying it out; that he was helped in his scheme by his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, as well as by lawyers and officials in the White House and apparently in the departments of justice and state allegedly including [William] Barr; and that the Ukrainians had begun to try to understand what silver bullets Trump wanted and where they could get them, so as not to risk missing out on US aid worth hundreds of millions of dollars."



    Turn on your tv (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 08:05:40 AM EST
    Hello President Pelosi

    I am on the road to (none / 0) (#42)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 09:20:22 AM EST
    NC taking my youngest son for a college visit. Can you do a play by play? Thanks.

    Basically (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 10:11:08 AM EST
    The report has been released

    And it's worse than we could have hoped.  The hearing has been pretty bland but the guy is basically saying the thing is real.  It's serious.  He totally supports the whistle blower and yeah, it's a big deal.

    He has spent a lot of time covering his own ass trying to explain why "shall" provide can be interpreted as after consulting with the subject of the complaint might provide.

    The real news of the day so far is not the hearing.  It's the whistle blower report itself.

    I do not expect any real bomb shells from the hearing.  But it's not good for Trump, Barr, Pence, Rudy et al


    What has come out in regards to (none / 0) (#49)
    by Peter G on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 02:25:02 PM EST
    Pence's role, if any. I assume something significant if you are saying, "Hello, President Pelosi." I have not seen it, but I'm trying to work and therefore behind on the news.

    The comment may (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 04:27:56 PM EST
    derive from the unfolding developments that this is not just one corrupt phone call, but a conspiracy to commit wrongdoings, including the abuse of presidential power for personal gain, possibly campaign finance violations, bribery, and extortion--along with  the aiding and abetting and cover-up of such wrongdoing by administration officers.

    As the complainant states, records of the Ukrainian call and others, worried White House officials that the calls may have been a problem, if not a crime. So, such calls were put in "lock down"--removed from the computer system where such records are typically stored, and moved to a separate  electronic system used to store and handle classified information of an especially sensitive nature.  Thus, hiding the call records and corrupting the national intel system's purpose.

    Rudy, the personal lawyer, and Barr, the AG, are mentioned as part of the plot, but there appear to be several others. Pence was sent out to try to explain to Dept of Defense and Dept. of State officials, why Trump froze the direly needed military aid funds.  Pence was part of the corruption issues/need to investigate Biden and son story line.


    Google Pence Ukraine (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 04:14:07 PM EST
    Trouble (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 05:50:48 PM EST
    Comin Everyday

    "Inside Fox News, tensions over Trump are becoming harder to contain as a long-running cold war between the network's news and opinion sides turns hot," wrote Sherman. "Fox has often taken a nothing-to-see-here approach to Trump scandals, but impeachment is a different animal. `It's management bedlam,' a Fox staffer told me. `This massive thing happened, and no one knows how to cover it.'"

    Meanwhile, Lachlan Murdoch, the son of right-wing media tycoon Rupert Murdoch, has been huddling with officials at Fox to discuss how the network should handle a post-Trump political landscape -- and former House Speaker Paul Ryan has been privately advising the younger Murdoch that Fox should stop cheerleading for the president.

    Is this Ryan's Revenge?

    A fire in the street (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Peter G on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 07:16:46 PM EST
    ain't like a fire in the heart.

    Or was that (none / 0) (#62)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 09:52:49 AM EST
    "a fire in the hearth"? I was never sure.

    Heart (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 09:56:48 AM EST
    I think

    Fire on MY heart (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 09:59:02 AM EST
    Which ch is way better

    Well I'm about to get UPSET
    From watchin' my TV
    Been checkin' out the news
    Until my eyeballs fail to see
    I mean they say that every day
    Is just another rotten mess
    And when it's gonna change, my friends
    Is anybody's guess
    So I'm watchin' and I'm waitin'
    Hopin' for the best
    Even think I'll go to prayin'
    Every time I hear 'em sayin'
    That there's no way to delay
    That trouble comin' every day
    No way to delay
    That trouble comin' every day
    Wednesday I watched the riot...
    I seen the cops out on the street
    Watched 'em throwin' rocks and stuff
    And chokin' in the heat
    Listened to reports
    About the whisky passin' 'round
    Seen the smoke & fire
    And the market burnin' down
    Watched while everybody
    On his street would take a turn
    To stomp and smash and bash and crash
    And slash and bust and burn
    And I'm watchin' and I'm waitin'
    Hopin' for the best
    Even think I'll go to prayin'
    Every time I hear 'em sayin'
    That there's no way to delay
    That trouble comin' every day
    No way to delay
    That trouble comin' every day
    Well you can cool it,
    You can heat it...
    'Cause, baby, I don't need it...
    Take your TV tube and eat it
    'N all that phony stuff on sports
    'N all THOSE unconfirmed reports
    You know I watched that rotten box
    Until my head began to hurt
    From checkin' out the way
    The newsmen say they get the dirt
    Before the guys on channel so-and-so
    And further they assert
    That any show they'll interrupt
    To bring you news if it comes up
    They say that if the place blows up
    They'll be the first to tell
    Because the boys they got downtown
    Are workin' hard and doin' swell,
    And if anybody gets the news
    Before it hits the street,
    They say that no one blabs it faster
    Their coverage can't be beat
    And if another woman driver
    Gets machine-gunned from her seat
    They'll send some joker with a brownie
    And you'll see it all complete
    So I'm watchin' and I'm waitin'
    Hopin' for the best
    Even think I'll go to prayin'
    Every time I hear 'em sayin'
    That there's no way to delay
    That trouble comin' every day
    No way to delay
    That trouble comin' every day
    Hey you know something people
    I'm not black
    But there's a whole lots a times
    I wish I could say I'm not white
    Well, I seen the fires burnin'
    And the local people turnin'
    On the merchants and the shops
    Who used to sell their brooms and mops
    And every other household item
    Watched the mob just turn and bite 'em
    And they say it served 'em right
    Because a few of them are white,
    And it's the same across the nation
    Black & white discrimination
    They're yellin' "You can't understand me!"
    And all the other crap they hand me
    In the papers and TV
    'N all that mass stupidity
    That seems to grow more every day
    Each time you hear some nitwit say
    He wants to go and do you in
    Because the color of your skin
    Just don't appeal to him
    (No matter if it's black or white)
    Because he's out for blood tonight
    You know we gotta sit around at home
    And watch this thing begin
    But I bet there won't be many left
    To see it really end
    'Cause the fire in the street
    Ain't like the fire in my heart
    And in the eyes of all these people
    Don't you know that this could start
    On any street in any town
    In any state if any clown
    Decides that now's the time to fight
    For some ideal he thinks is right
    And if a million more agree
    There ain't no great society
    As it applies to you and me
    Our country isn't free
    And the law refuses to see
    If all that you can ever be
    Is just a lousy janitor
    Unless your uncle owns a store
    You know that five in every four
    WON'T amount TO nothin' more
    THAN watch the rats go across the floor
    And make up songs about being poor
    Blow you harmonica son!

    Blow you harmonica (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 10:04:41 AM EST

    Don't get me started (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 10:08:09 AM EST
    "Blow your harmonica, son!"
    The catchphrase "Blow your harmonica, son" originates from Lightnin' Slim.

    This quote, and variations, can be heard in:
    Trouble Every Day - Freak Out! (5:07)
    Prelude To The Afternoon Of A Sexually Aroused Gas Mask - Weasels Ripped My Flesh (3:12)
    In France - Them Or Us (2:28) "Oh, smell your harmonica, go on, smell it, son"
    In France - You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 3 (2:01) "Well, suck that harmonica, son"
    The Downtown Talent Scout - You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 5 (3:59)

    What is that from? (none / 0) (#67)
    by leap on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 10:56:20 AM EST

    "Trouble Every Day" (1966) (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 10:59:39 AM EST
    by Frank Zappa, as recorded several times by his band, The Mother of Invention.

    Mothers of ... (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 11:03:46 AM EST
    not "Mother of ..."  The same demon that produces (and hides until it's posted) "you" for "your."

    FZ (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by Steve13209 on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 07:47:38 AM EST
    Love/miss this guy.

    Ryan had (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 26, 2019 at 08:13:49 PM EST
    The power as  speaker to do something but just went along with Trump. Fox would be stupid to listen to him.
    But this is interesting in the fact that this could literally destroy their operation.

    Pure politics aside, ... (none / 0) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 01:41:32 PM EST
    ... what's really hurting Fox News is the fact that the median age of their audience is 71 years and rising. For CNN and MSNBC, that median is 12-15 years below that. The Fox News crowd is gradually aging out, and younger viewers aren't replacing them nearly as quickly as they're passing from the scene.

    Against its direct competitors, CNN touts a slightly younger median age viewer: 61 years old. Fox News is at 65 and MSNBC, 66.
    I am stunned at the oldness of TV news watchers.

    I lived with my parents for a few years (none / 0) (#75)
    by CST on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 02:24:42 PM EST
    After college and my mom was watching non-stop MSNBC and occasionally CNN. It was enough for me to never watch cable news ever again. I can't even imagine how bad Fox is.

    I like reading the news. I can't stand any of the talking heads. By the end of it I was even sick of Maddow and she was the best of them.


    What are the commercials? (none / 0) (#77)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 02:56:32 PM EST
    Fixodent? Depends?

    That or (none / 0) (#80)
    by CST on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 09:59:46 PM EST
    Cialis and Sandals Resorts.  First they get you all worked up and then they sell you the solution to your problems.

    As a regular consumer (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 08:38:24 AM EST
    Of cable news I would say it's like almost everything else.  Some of it is very good.  Most of it is annoyingly stupid.  MSNBC is my standard BG noise.  Meaning my ADHD requires supplemental input when I'm not really watching anything.

    As far as ads I would suggest to you that when you find yourself in your mid 60s you will, apparently, surprise yourself by having interest that go beyond adult diapers, ED drugs and cheesy vacation destinations.

    Surprisingly your interests are not that different than your average judgmental 40-50 year old.


    As for the 60ish demo watching a lot (none / 0) (#82)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 10:01:57 AM EST
    Of news, we are retired.  We have time to be civil minded.

    CIVIC (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 10:02:16 AM EST

    I (none / 0) (#89)
    by FlJoe on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 01:10:07 PM EST
    agree, though CNN is my background. It's sometimes informing, often repetitive and all to many times infuriating.

    IMO you cannot see what is wrong with this country without seeing what is wrong with the media.

    It is fascinating (for an old guy) to watch propaganda being launched and narratives created.


    Sunday shows (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 08:33:12 AM EST
    Are worth the time.  

    Depending on individual tolerance.

    Jim Jordon was just on CNN and all I could see was that bug eyed monkey who jumps up and down and bangs cymbals


    Gotta (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 02:40:02 PM EST
    say I agree with you even though all I have watched is the clips.

    You described Gym Jordan well. I saw it and thought what is wrong with him? Why is he hopping all over the chair like that? My conclusion was the entire GOP knows they are going down.

    I also have come to the opinion that this whole Ukraine thing will probably hurt Biden because his response has been nothing short of lackluster and because Hunter worked for a Russian Oligarch. In any other year it wouldn't matter one iota but this year with all the Russian issues and with Russia attacking us in 2016 it's going to matter. Then Biden also has the problem of keeping his mouth shut about Russia attacking us in 2016 while Russia actually was attacking us.


    It is a sad unfortunate thing (none / 0) (#109)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 04:36:36 PM EST
    But the fact is every time these professional mouths give a run down of the sordid story of Trump they have this Pavlovian response that makes them believe they have to say something about Biden to continue to appear balanced.

    Something like "there is no evidence at all there was any wrong doing but it `looks bad'"

    I still don't think it's clear if it will hurt or help him.  Or neither.


    How can it look anything but bad - very bad - (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by Peter G on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 04:45:36 PM EST
    that the son of the Vice President of the U.S. was given a $50,000/mo. position on the board of directors of a foreign energy company, a business in which he had no apparent expertise or other legitimate basis to bring value to that company, at a time when his father, the Vice President, had a role in forming and enforcing U.S. foreign policy toward that other nation? Come on, put partisanship aside for a minute. It stinks. Someone try to explain to me how it doesn't stink.

    Not arguing that at all (none / 0) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 04:53:24 PM EST
    But as some one said in response to that question this morning, `if you want to talk about passing laws against the children of the president using their proximity to power for personal gain it is not hard to find more recent examples'

    Which to be very clear is not a justification.  But it would be just a disingenuous to treat this charge FROM THIS SOURCE as anything but a distraction.

    Right up there with deep concern about corruption in Ukraine.


    Ok, then. We have (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Peter G on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 05:03:57 PM EST
    no disagreement. I don't think "Ivanka does it too, and just as bad, in her own way" is going to keep this from tainting Biden as a candidate. The fact that what Hunter Biden did may not be a crime  under U.S. or Ukrainian law cuts no ice with me, either. Nor the fact that Tr*mp is raising it, dishonestly, hypocritically and cravenly, as always, for his own self-serving reasons. It still stinks.

    It won't keep them from trying (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 05:12:08 PM EST
    And probably succeeding

    But I was surprised how many time it was mentioned today.  More in the context of how stupid do you think we are?

    Like this

    "The president's daughter right now is having all sorts of copyrights granted in foreign countries," Tapper said. "That doesn't alarm you? The president's sons are doing all sorts of business all over the world. That doesn't alarm you?"

    "Come on," Jordan replied dismissively.

    "Either there's a principle that people should not benefit from foreign actions or there isn't," Tapper said

    CaptHowdy: "Jim Jordon was just on CNN and all I could see was that bug eyed monkey who jumps up and down and bangs cymbals."

    ... that ubiquitous and unofficial mascot of the MLB Los Angeles Angels.

    According to legend (or old wives' tale), the Rally Monkey helped carry the Angels to the 2002 World Series championship. With the team down to the San Francisco Giants 3 games to 2, and trailing in the bottom of the seventh inning of Game 6 in Anaheim by a 5-0 score, the Rally Monkey appeared onscreen and ignited the crowd, and the Angels then came from behind late with six runs over the final two innings to win that game, which proved to be the pivotal moment in that series.

    The Republicans, of course, are no L.A. Angels.



    I don't watch (none / 0) (#98)
    by CST on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 09:42:33 AM EST
    TV with ads at all.  There's a sea change happening there.

    The ads were never the problem though.  It was the constant outrage that I didn't need in that kind of a format.  And I almost never felt better informed.


    Nor do I (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 09:53:59 AM EST
    I record anything with ads and FF them on delay.

    Been surfing the morning shows this way  this morning.

    I would say I've learned things


    Like (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 09:57:17 AM EST
    Just watching Steven Miller get pummeled by Chris Wallace I learned Trump World is flat out bed wetting panic mode.

    That should be up by now

    It's pretty good.


    Stevie (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 09:59:30 AM EST
    Another thing I learned today (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 10:04:45 AM EST
    Is that Rudy is definitely being groomed as the goat.

    Oh oh (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 10:16:51 AM EST
    All (none / 0) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 10:21:29 AM EST
    The best people

    Yes, the Nazi (none / 0) (#108)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 02:42:35 PM EST
    refused to answer why Trump sent private lawyers to the Ukraine instead of using the government. Well, we all know the answer to that. It's because he didn't want it to show up in a whistle blower report.

    I agree (none / 0) (#107)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 02:41:08 PM EST
    I don't watch much cable news for the same reason. It seems to create anxiety for me. I read the news and am probably more informed than when I did get all my news from cable sources.

    Ha! I've heard stories (none / 0) (#84)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 10:36:51 AM EST
    about those retirement communities...

    That's why they need (none / 0) (#90)
    by Zorba on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 01:36:11 PM EST
    Cialis. ;-)

    Ha! (none / 0) (#105)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 10:48:03 AM EST
    80% of cable news channel commercials ... (none / 0) (#156)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 08:23:25 PM EST
    ... are for prescription drugs, which is hardly surprising given the age of TV viewers skews older: "Do you have feelings of inadequacy? Do you suffer from shyness? Do you wish you were more assertive? If you answered 'yes' to any of these questions, then ask your doctor or pharmacist if Tequila is right for you."

    Mor like 50% (none / 0) (#157)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 08:33:50 PM EST
    Adweek top cable news advertisers 2018 Q3

    Progressive (1,036 airings)
    Purple (838 airings)
    T-Mobile (803 airings)
    Sono Bello (641 airings)
    AARP (579 airings)
    SoClean (563 airings)
    Humira (558 airings)
    NutriSystem (392 airings)
    Otezla (356 airings)
    Neulasta (306 airings)

    Not all adult diapers and ED treatments.  We get walk in tubs, reverse mortgages and A Place for Mom (or Dad if he makes it long enough to be a problem)


    Fox is preparing (none / 0) (#93)
    by smott on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 02:08:53 PM EST
    For life Post-Trump

    Ha ha ha ha (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 09:48:46 AM EST
    The mind cycles back (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 09:52:06 AM EST
    To the pee tape.

    Has it's time come?


    Both the whistleblower's (none / 0) (#78)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 04:08:10 PM EST
    complaint and its evaluation by Michael Atkinson, the Inspector General for the Intelligence Community (IGIC), are tightly written--clear, concise and to the point.  It is understandable that most Americans were unable to read the 448-page long Mueller Report, but these two documents are easy reads save for keeping track of the several Ukrainian characters which was a bit like something out of a Dostoevsky novel.

    These documents along with the White House's own reconstruction of the call are cross-pollinates. And, their legal analysis undermines the "prudence" claimed by Joseph Maguire, DNI(Acting), in referring the complaint to the WH and DOJ. Clearly, bad judgment, to be generous, on the part of Maguire. It was, as if, Maguire did not realize that he was being set up by his appointment.

    The White House and Barr knew about the complaint--the first complaint to (probably) the CIA general counsel (who called her WH counterpart, and that complaint then wound up in the circular file), and later, by easy deduction when Mr Atkinson, in his letter of transmittal to Maguire, states that while he did not access records of the president's call, he sent, concurrently, a notice of document access and a document hold notice to the White House.

    While more investigation and confirmation may be needed, the nut of it all is there for all to see.

    It appears that Speaker Pelosi wants the impeachment process to move rapidly, maybe, by Thanksgiving...or, at least, by the end of the year.

     Republicans, including those never-Trumpers have a lot of advice for Democrats...Trump is guilty, but don't impeach (e.g. David Brooks). Apparently, the logic is those moderates will vote for a Democratic presidential candidate if we don't impeach Trump, but not if we do.

     And, the polls (e.g. NYTimes interviews with the economic anxious).  Enjoyed the diner interview of the "swing voter" who went to 30 some MAGA rallies and had a MAGA hat, and a photo of General Robert E. Lee in his living room, who won't vote for the Democrat if they impeach Trump.

    And, of course, we must wait and remove Trump in 2020 at the polls, fair and square... as if impeachment is not a Constitutional remedy for the likes of a Trump. And, too, never mind that Trump, according to the whistleblower,  "is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 election."  Fair and square like.

    What About the Tax/Business Records? (none / 0) (#88)
    by RickyJim on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 12:54:36 PM EST
    Trump seems to be much more worried about hiding them than he is about his phone calls with foreign leaders.  Will the current impeachment hullabaloo make them any easier to obtain?

    Six House Committees, (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 02:34:35 PM EST
    Judiciary, Intel, Ways and Means, Financial Services, Oversight, and Foreign Affairs will continue to look at different elements of Trump's presidency and his businesses.  Each will provide input for Articles of Impeachment to be drawn up by the Judiciary Committee, which will vote (or not) to refer the Articles to the full House.  A simple majority vote is needed to impeach.

    The Committees, to date, have bumped into stonewalling by Trump resulting in ongoing Court cases.  The powers of the House Committees are at their zenith in an impeachment process.

    The issue becomes can one branch of government, the executive branch, impede or prevent another branch of government, the House, from proceeding with its Constitutional obligation to investigate the executive for high crimes and misdemeanors.   My guess, is that it cannot.  


    In the meanwhile... (none / 0) (#96)
    by desertswine on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 10:25:20 PM EST
    the State Department is still investigation Hillary's e-mails.

    The Trump administration is investigating the email records of dozens of current and former senior State Department officials who sent messages to then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's private email, reviving a politically toxic matter that overshadowed the 2016 election, current and former officials said.

    As many as 130 officials have been contacted in recent weeks by State Department investigators -- a list that includes senior officials who reported directly to Clinton as well as others in lower-level jobs whose emails were at some point relayed to her inbox, said current and former State Department officials. Those targeted were notified that emails they sent years ago have been retroactively classified and now constitute potential security violations, according to letters reviewed by The Washington Post.

    Trump, it seems is determined to take as many people as he can to hell with him.

    State Dept. intensifies email probe of Hillary Clinton's former aides

    Maybe the search for "her emails," (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by KeysDan on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 11:26:24 AM EST
    is the reason why the extreme right winger, Sebastian Gorka, and Secretary of State Pompeo are traveling together today to Europe.  They may think that the "but her emails" are stashed in a bunker.

    The Whistleblower (none / 0) (#114)
    by KeysDan on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 08:11:22 PM EST
    Has been placed under federal protection, fearing for his safety.  

    Trump attacked Adam Schiff calling for him to be questioned "by the highest levels" for fraud and treason.

    Trump has been calling for the good old days when we knew how io punish traitors the right way apparently by execution.

    Hope Mr. Schiff has protection, too.

    Tr*mp's attack on Schiff for "fraud" (5.00 / 3) (#115)
    by Peter G on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 10:22:36 PM EST
    is almost hilarious. The basis, such as it is, is that Schiff characterized and summarized, entirely fairly (rather than quoting verbatim) the non-verbatim reconstruction (not transcript) of Tr*mp's extortionate and improper phone call with the Ukrainian president. As for "treason," we have discussed on the blog many times Tr*mp's complete ignorance of the legal meaning of that term. As well as his alarming tendency to describe disloyalty to himself as "treason," as if he were the State ("l'etat c'est moi," as Louis the XIV is quoted as saying.) And more to the point, under pre-Revolutionary English law, speaking ill of the King was in fact considered a form of treason. That's one reason why treason is defined very differently in the U.S. Constitution (the only crime to be defined there).

    And of course (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 08:10:26 AM EST
    The inevitable threat of violence from the red hats

    "If the Democrats are successful in removing the President from office (which they will never be), it will cause a Civil War like fracture in this Nation from which our Country will never heal,'" Trump quoted pastor Robert Jeffress as saying.

    I really think there might be a point when republicans reconsider blind support for this stuff.


    Perhaps I am just too careful a reader, and (none / 0) (#152)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 07:23:24 PM EST
    perhaps overly inclined to be fair-minded, but to me, a prediction of a "Civil War-like fracture" in the nation, if certain events were to occur, is not at all the same as a threat of an actual civil war. It is not even a prediction of a civil war.

    I'm sure you are right (none / 0) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 08:02:17 PM EST
    After all Trump has never said or done anything along the lines of threatening violence if he was removed from office.

    That was sarcasm (none / 0) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 08:02:47 PM EST
    To be clear

    True enough, but (none / 0) (#158)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 08:42:44 PM EST
    not this time.

    How about ... (none / 0) (#160)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 09:27:09 PM EST
    Trump (Twitter): "His lies were made in perhaps the most blatant and sinister manner ever seen in the great Chamber. He wrote down and read terrible things, and said it was from the mouth of the President of the United States. I want Schiff questioned at the highest level for Fraud & Treason....."

    ... threatening to arrest the Chair of the House Intelligence Committee for treason, as he did this weekend?

    Look, we're not talking about some inebriated slob at a bar who wants to fight you because he thinks you laughed at him. This is the President of the United States -- you know, our head of state who has ultimate command over U.S. marshals, the FBI and the most awesome military machine on Planet Earth. Further, federal courts have ruled in Trump v. Hawaii that because he's president, his tweets have the weight of official statements.

    Given his well-documented record of lying and bullying, Trump does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. The old rules do not apply. When people in high positions of authority have proved themselves more than willing to flout the rule of law and bully others into submission, then you cannot necessarily depend upon that rule of law to somehow protect you when they are right in your face.

    Seriously, ask your good friend Alexander Silvert in Honolulu how the law worked to protect his client Gerard Puana. It was only by pure chance that Puana drew Silvert as his public defender. Even then, it required an extraordinarily heavy lift on Silvert's part before the tide finally turned and justice began to prevail.

    But for your friend, all the pieces were otherwise in place for an innocent man to be framed by the Chief of Police and the Prosecuting Attorney's office for a crime he didn't commit, and for that man's 95-year-old mother to be defrauded of the valuable title to her family home and land by people who clearly had no problem abusing the inherent authority of their office for their own financial benefit.

    And you know what? They'd have gotten away with it, too, because they knew exactly how to manipulate the system to ensure that the due process of law would fail Puana and his mother at each step of the way in both civil and criminal court. Nobody was willing to call them out on it, until Silvert finally came into the picture through the sheer luck of the draw.

    I guess what I'm saying here, Peter, is nothing that you don't already know, which is that the good guys don't always win, and that you have to be prepared to make people to do the right thing and not be resigned to your fate.

    And if that means sometimes coloring outside the lines then so be it, as far as I'm concerned. You don't have to be the guy who throws the first punch to start a fight. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with you throwing the last punch to end one.



    There are plenty of valid grounds to bring (none / 0) (#161)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 10:06:48 PM EST
    charges in article of impeachment. No reason to bring bogus ones. Plenty of valid accusations to level against Tr*mp based on his actual statements. No reason to twist what he says into something he didn't say; that only weakens the prosecution case against him. It's not a hard reach; no reason to overreach.  

    It seemed to me, (none / 0) (#163)
    by KeysDan on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 10:25:56 PM EST
    that Trump seized upon the pastor's arguable prediction putting it into service as a cagily indistinct threat of violence.  And, in the frenzied state of his mind, inciting not so much a civil war as the more likely domestic terrorism.

    We know it doesn't take a nuanced MAGA reader to get the message---like the guy who got in his truck, drove 300 miles. so as to shoot up that nefarious Clinton pizza parlor.


    Trump actually misquoted him (none / 0) (#165)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 06:12:29 AM EST
    The preacher said he "feared it would lead to...."

    Trump left out "feared" and went straight to "it would lead to.."

    He knew exactly how to imply what he wanted the Red Hats to hear..


    Here (none / 0) (#166)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 06:57:12 AM EST

    Brian Stelter
    ICYMI: Trump butchered a quote from
    , turning his fear of a "Civil War-type fracture" into something more like a threat



    A NYTimes editorial (Oct l), (none / 0) (#169)
    by KeysDan on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 11:34:10 AM EST
    by Charlie Warzel:  The right wing's civil war fantasy--to Russian Trolls--to Trump tweets.

    (Sigh!) If he insists. (none / 0) (#116)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Sep 29, 2019 at 10:50:45 PM EST
    KeysDan: "Trump has been calling for the good old days when we knew how io punish traitors the right way apparently by execution."

    After all, Trump and his family are the ones who cut the Faustian bargain with Putin and betrayed their country. Oh, and by the way -- is everyone ready for another round of "But Her Emails!"? Also, is anybody up for a game of "Benghazi"?


    It seems (none / 0) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 07:52:19 AM EST
    Moscow Mitch has relented on his threat to not hold an impeachment trial in the senate and will go ahead and hold one if Trump is impeached in the house.

    Mitch sez (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 11:32:22 AM EST
    The senate rules are clear, a vote on impeachment is required.

    Strangely he did not mention they also required a vote on a legitimate Supreme Court nominee from a US President.



    Grim Reaper, this is Donald (none / 0) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 08:12:12 AM EST
    Donald, Grim Reaper.

    Mac Thornberry (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 09:44:01 AM EST
    Who is that and why should you care?

    He is yet another Texas Republican who is not running in 20.

    That is interesting (none / 0) (#123)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 10:10:47 AM EST
    based on the fact that apparently he represents the most Republican district in the country. It doesn't appear that he is in any legal trouble. It's probably a sign that he's tired of being in the minority.

    Sick and tired (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 10:13:19 AM EST
    Of being sick and tired?

    He is the 6th TX republican.


    Rats leaving (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Zorba on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 03:51:01 PM EST
    A sinking ship, perhaps?

    THIS is interesting (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 10:26:35 AM EST
    In a statement posted on his website, Thornberry said that "for everything there is a season."

    "[A]nd I believe that the time has come for a change," he continued. "Therefore, I will not be a candidate for reelection in the 2020 election."

    Thornberry -Yardbirds? (none / 0) (#126)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 10:30:09 AM EST
    Holy shi+

    What's your name?
    Who's your daddy?
    (He rich) Is he rich like me?
    Has he taken, any time (any time)
    (To show) to show you what you need to live
    Tell it to me slowly (tell me what)
    I really want to know
    It's the time of the season

    Yeah yeah bible bible (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 10:33:55 AM EST

    I'm saying Yardbirds


    Actually (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by FlJoe on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 11:11:36 AM EST
    it was the Zombies.

    And "to everything there is a season" (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 11:19:15 AM EST
    as a song lyric (as well as a Biblical quotation) is from Pete Seeger's "Turn, Turn, Turn," recorded  (inter alia) by the Byrds.

    Peter you and Jeralyn (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by fishcamp on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 03:18:09 PM EST
    Seem to have a vast knowledge of rock and roll songs and words.  She knows most all the words to all the songs.  Since I rather doubt they offer a class in rock and roll in law school it must come from using your memory with all those laws.

    They are so (none / 0) (#131)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 11:21:51 AM EST

    Hopefully (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by FlJoe on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 11:31:50 AM EST
    we will all be singing "Another one bites the dust" many times over the next several months.

    Here's a start

    Buffalo Congressman Chris Collins is expected to plead guilty Tuesday in connection with an insider trading case.

    Things to know about Kurt Volker (none / 0) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 09:55:00 AM EST
    He was close to McCain.  He continues to be close to the McCain family.  He is the head of The McCain Institute.  A position he has not resigned as he did his State Dept job.


    deuxième partie (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 11:05:58 AM EST
    Trumps "civil war" (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 03:58:39 PM EST
    But not the one he wanted

    MORE Civil War At Fox: DiGenova Claims 'Trump Haters Outed Me'
    Joe DiGenova doesn't even deny he was working with Guiliani in Ukraine while a Fox network "analyst." He just lashes out at the "Trump haters" at Fox News who "outed" him. Wow

    On Monday, diGenova lashed out at Fox News during an interview on WBAL.

    "They did it for a very simple reason," diGenova charged. "This is payback. This is about my criticism of [Fox News analyst Andrew Napolitano] last week, which became a huge fight between Shepard Smith and Tucker Carlson, then devolved into more criticism of everybody involved in this matter."

    "What happened was, Judge Napolitano and others got together and got this question planted with Chris Wallace Sunday in order to stir up a hornets nest," he added

    Couldn't (none / 0) (#147)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 05:22:19 PM EST
    happen to a nicer group of people.

    I wouldn't call them "nice" people. (none / 0) (#149)
    by leap on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 05:31:24 PM EST
    Maybe, "Couldn't happen to a more deserving group of people."

    A clear case of irony detection deficit (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 07:08:39 PM EST

    Que ominous music (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 04:03:29 PM EST
    Twitter > SteveKornacki
    Steve Kornacki
    New Quinnipiac poll: Do you think President Trump should be impeached and removed from office? NOW Yes 47% No 47% LAST WEEK Yes 37% No 57%

    More (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 04:07:58 PM EST
    Twitter > POLITICO_Steve
    Steven Shepard
    New CNN/SSRS poll shows support for impeaching and removing Trump from office at 47-45%, very similar to the @QuinnipiacPoll result of 47-47%. cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019...

    Should Trump be offered (none / 0) (#145)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 04:47:26 PM EST
    Some kind of pardon deal to resign?

    I would support that.  I think.

    I don't think (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 05:25:44 PM EST
    I would. I can understand the desire to be rid of him quickly but I think he and the entire GOP needs to face the music. This is going to keep happening again and again until the GOP gets some sort of consequences and the since they don't recognize democracy and believe every D elected is illegitimate the only consequence that will have any effect on them is for them to sit a long time in a jail cell.

    Not sure what part of the GOP (none / 0) (#155)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 08:10:38 PM EST
    Besides some cabinet members we are expecting to face the music

    Trump being bribed to leave office with a pardon of some kind would certainly not stop the rest of the Republican Party from being punished at the ballot box.  

    But we have no idea where this could go.  IMO Trump will do absolutely anything to protect himself.  Anything.  If he could be removed with out violence or god only knows what and save the country from the hell we are headed for it's my opinion that might just be worth it.

    And besides no pardon for state crimes.  He might believe he can beat those.  And if he doesn't he ends up in state prison.


    I'm thinking (none / 0) (#164)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 05:49:35 AM EST
    actual impeachment trial where the crimes of the GOP and Trump are all played out for everybody to see. People get amnesia about Nixon because he resigned. I guess if Trump had a Goldwater moment he might resign but do you really think he would resign even if a deal was reached? I mean he has the ultimate grift going on and resigning means facing state charges sooner than later.

    But wouldn't a 'Goldwater Moment' ... (none / 0) (#197)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 07:54:26 PM EST
    ... first require congressional Republicans to have someone in their ranks with the stature of Barry Goldwater?



    Heard some one say today (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 09:02:23 PM EST
    Some one supposed to know about this stuff that the House could include Barr, Pompeo and whoever else in any articles of impeachment

    And so, as I understood it, impeach and remove them all at once.

    Anyone know if this is right?

    This person suggested one advantage of that would be it would be such a massive story it would grab the attention of everyone.  It would probably do that.

    As long as each Article is separately voted on (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 30, 2019 at 10:11:13 PM EST
    by the House, as against each person to be impeached, I don't see why Articles of Impeachment couldn't name multiple officials in some or all of the Articles. I don't think I've ever heard of it being done, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be. And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it has been, in the course of British constitutional history, where the Framers borrowed the concept from. I am not an actual historian, like Towanda or Donald.

    Historically, each impeachment .. (none / 0) (#198)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 07:59:43 PM EST
    ... has been directed at individuals. Constitutionally, I'm not sure if trying multiple persons simultaneously in the docket of the Senate is legal or even feasible.

    Personally, at this point I'd rather we just take them all out to sea, and then make them walk the plank.



    Ahh. A man after my own heart. (none / 0) (#200)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Oct 03, 2019 at 10:40:59 AM EST
    "Personally, at this point I'd rather we just take them all out to sea, and then make them walk the plank."

    I had visions of the The Handmaid's Tale and certain types of scaffolding.


    I love the House (none / 0) (#170)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 12:17:42 PM EST
    Is just letting this "simmer"

    Let's be clear, we are at a nexus.

    I'm liking the response so far.

    To Pompeo, et al.  (For those otherwise involved)

    Keep your eye on the Volker appearance

    Question of the day (none / 0) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 12:38:03 PM EST
    Will Twitter shut him down?

    Why would they? (none / 0) (#177)
    by Peter G on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 08:12:52 PM EST
    I don't recall hearing that lunacy violates their Terms of Service.

    Ok.... (none / 0) (#172)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 04:54:29 PM EST
    The State Department's inspector general is expected to brief staffers from several House and Senate committees on Wednesday afternoon about documents obtained from the department's Office of the Legal Adviser concerning documents related to the State Department and Ukraine, sources familiar with the planned briefing told ABC News.

    Details of the briefing, expected to be conducted by Steve Linick, the inspector general at State, remain unknown. Linick is expected to meet with congressional staff in a secure location on Capitol Hill.

    The unusual nature and timing of the briefing - during a congressional recess - suggest it may be connected to a recent intelligence community whistleblower allegation which describes, in part, the State Department's role in coordinating interactions between Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal attorney, and Ukrainian officials.

    I believe (none / 0) (#173)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 05:17:42 PM EST
    Pompeo is melting down and calling this "harassment" of his employees. More than likely he's been the one harassing his employees.

    Pompeo's. (none / 0) (#174)
    by KeysDan on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 07:39:08 PM EST
    stonewalling of his and other state department officers testimony is, hopefully, a brief show of loyalty to his master.  If not, he needs to be a show case.for serious consequences for obstructing Congress.  

    So is Pompei in Italy... (none / 0) (#176)
    by desertswine on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 08:05:29 PM EST
    or is he back in the US.  I had read that he had gone to Italy with Adolf Gorka.

    Not back (none / 0) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 08:46:05 PM EST
    One wonders if his absence is the cause of the urgency sited by the State Department IG.

    Very curious what that's about.  

    Pompeo will be leaving that in the rear-view mirror, however, as the former CIA director meets tomorrow and Wednesday with Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte

    That's what I was thinkig. (none / 0) (#179)
    by desertswine on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 08:57:09 PM EST
    Very interesting and getting pretty crazy.

    It really is (none / 0) (#180)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 09:01:30 PM EST
    Three chairmen have replied to Pompeos tweeted threat about state department staff testifying.

    Lawerence is reading it.  I can't find it to link but it's oretty dam muscular.  It actually addressed to the Deputy Secretary because they say Pompeo has no business telling any one anything and he really needs the STFU and sit down until he's addressed.  


    Some body is getting anxious (none / 0) (#175)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 01, 2019 at 07:57:11 PM EST
    Donald J. Trump
    As I learn more and more each day, I am coming to the conclusion that what is taking place is not an impeachment, it is a COUP, intended to take away the Power of the....
    6:41 PM · Oct 1, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

    Donald J. Trump
    Replying to
    ....People, their VOTE, their Freedoms, their Second Amendment, Religion, Military, Border Wall, and their God-given rights as a Citizen of The United States of America!

    Pelosi/Schiff news avail (none / 0) (#181)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 08:18:12 AM EST
    In one hour

    Right now many people (none / 0) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 09:57:53 AM EST
    Are thinking...."ya know, she really might not be such a bad president".

    Schiff has not even spoken yet.


    Schiff opens with (none / 0) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 10:00:29 AM EST
    The anniversary of the Kashoggi murder.

    Nadler would not have done that.

    Jus sayin


    PS (none / 0) (#184)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 10:03:44 AM EST
    and fortherecord

    My confidence in Nancy was boosted when she made Schiff the point and gave Nadler cleanup.


    Nancy is forcing (none / 0) (#185)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 10:06:14 AM EST
    The press to discuss things they have done.  Brilliant.  

    OMG (none / 0) (#186)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 10:21:33 AM EST
    Nancy is Winston f'ing Churchill

    This will be news.


    In what way? (none / 0) (#187)
    by leap on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 10:40:40 AM EST

    In the sense (none / 0) (#191)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 03:57:28 PM EST
    She was talking to history