Trump's Ukranian Mess

The case for impeaching Donald Trump got an uptick last week when news emerged that Trump tried to get the Ukranian President to investigate Joe Biden as he was considering whether to provide the Ukraine with a military aid package.

CNN reports:

[I]f Trump used his power to try to coerce a foreign leader into influencing US elections, it could precipitate the worst political crisis of a presidency that has been mired in notoriety from its first hours.

It would amount to a situation in which Trump's team, which according to the Mueller report expected to benefit from Russian election meddling in 2016, is now using the power of the presidency to incite collusion ahead of the 2020 election.


As to what Trump thinks Biden and his son Hunter did wrong:

Trump's claims that Biden pushed for the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor because he investigated a business for which his son served as a board member have previously been found to be false. The prosecutor was seen as corrupt by multiple governments and international institutions, not just the former vice president.

The former Ukranian Attorney General said:

The then-Ukrainian prosecutor general Yury Lutsenko said in May that Burisma Holdings, a major energy company, did not violate Ukrainian law by having Hunter Biden on its board and paying him.

Trump, with his customary inarticulate manner of speaking said yesterday:

Trump on Sunday...said that he did indeed discuss Biden with Ukraine's president at a time when Kiev was awaiting a $250 million military aid package from the United States. The call with Zelensky took place on July 25. Congress passed the bill in August and the White House lifted a hold on the money in September.

"The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, with all of the corruption taking place and largely the fact that we don't want our people like Vice President Biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine," Trump said.

I assume he meant "contributing". Is he losing his marbles or does he just not have very many to begin with....or both? I think America deserves a leader who can properly express his thoughts in the English language.

I don't think Senate Republicans will vote to impeach Trump over misconduct pertaining to Joe Biden, especially in an election year. But it is another reason not to nominate Biden. Trump will turn the election into a referendum on whether Biden and his son engaged in misconduct rather than the important issues facing the country. The post-primary campaign would be a replay of Trump's distortion of the Hillary email story that will resonate with his underinformed supporters who will just love a rally where they can shout "lock him up".

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    Neither do I (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 05:49:09 PM EST
    I don't think Senate Republicans will vote to impeach Trump over misconduct pertaining to Joe Biden, especially in an election year

    But I do think there is a strong argument to be made for impeaching the mofo and forcing them to defend not convicting him.

    In an election year.

    Collins, Ernst, McSally (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by MKS on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 02:59:31 PM EST
    and Gardner.....Let them vote for Trump.  They could all well lose for other reasons....This could one more reason they lose.

    Not a big fan (none / 0) (#39)
    by MKS on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 03:00:13 PM EST
    of opposing Biden using Trump's arguments....

    The biggest (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 05:13:20 PM EST
    rap on Biden has been his handling of this entire situation. He just doesn't seem up to the job.

    For the record (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 03:03:45 PM EST
    And in spite of what we may have heard, acknowledging the fact that this is not good for Biden is NOT "opposing Biden using Trumps argument"

    It's living in the real world.


    Which would require (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 05:50:48 PM EST
    Democrats being able to put one freakin foot in front of the other



    This ... (none / 0) (#57)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 05:36:58 AM EST
    and if Trump's numbers get to the point where he's averaging about 35% approval (that means some polls will have in the 20s), then the GOP may see some value in dumping him, and rolling the dice on Pence.

    Especially, if those numbers seem to be effecting key Senate races.

    When the polls go upside down, you'll quickly see many members of the GOP vying for Profile in Courage Awards.



    You know (none / 0) (#58)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 25, 2019 at 03:52:01 PM EST
    at that point they probably would be willing to roll the dice but the truth is I don't think it is going to matter. A majority of the country has been begging the GOP to oppose Trump and they have done nothing but been sycophants. So now they're likely going to be in the middle of an impeachment trial during primaries and then there's still going to be the trials that were spawned from the Mueller investigation to come next year also.

    Well (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by FlJoe on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 03:53:56 PM EST
    the deed is done, Pelosi gave a good steely eyed speech.

    She was good (5.00 / 6) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 04:00:39 PM EST
    If you can take it (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 04:16:00 PM EST
    Switch over to FOX.  they are calling out the professional terd polishers.

    Currently Trey Gowdy.

    After a looooong AOC segment.


    Let's hope that at the end of it all, many, (5.00 / 4) (#50)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 04:40:58 PM EST
    many people say that it was the best impeachment, better than any other impeachment, an impeachment like we've never seen before.

    Goodbye to Volker... (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by desertswine on Fri Sep 27, 2019 at 08:17:42 PM EST
    Kurt D. Volker, the State Department's special envoy for Ukraine who got caught in the middle of the pressure campaign by President Trump and his lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, to find damaging information about Democrats, abruptly resigned his post on Friday.

    Soon to be thrown to the wolves, no good deed goes unpunished.

    "He should step forward and explain what he did," Mr. Giuliani said on the show. "The whistle-blower falsely alleges that I was operating on my own. Well, I wasn't operating on my own!"

    Reportedly (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 10:51:14 AM EST
    This guy is a pretty straight shooter and his resignation is not good for team Trump because they can no longer influence what he says.

    And some seem to believe he might have quite a lot to say having been very unhappy about the position Rudy put him in.


    One can (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Zorba on Sat Sep 28, 2019 at 01:42:43 PM EST
    Only hope that he has a lot to say, and all of it damaging.

    So Biden (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 04, 2019 at 04:36:40 PM EST
    who has said Trump is awful and crazy was asked if he would vote to remove Trump from office if he was in the senate and he says he doesn't know. So he would be okay with keeping someone he has called crazy in office?

    Joe is just flat terrible when it comes to campaigning.

    Funny (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 09:41:44 AM EST
    Yesterday I ran into one of "those people" at the dog groomer.

    He was sooo happy because Trump was taking out Biden.

    Side note.  This one believes every conspiracy theory.  Every one.  Also I've told him before the nominee would be a woman, we did not want Biden or Bernie.

    He thinks Trump is winning.

    I smirked and said in a low conspiratorial voice, you guys, so easy to manipulate.
    Can't you see this whole thing is a result of the deep state resistance manipulating Trump into getting rid of Biden for us.
    (I Chuckle, eye roll)
    We couldn't attack Uncle Joe.  We needed Trump to do it for us.  
    (I affect sincerity)
    We on the left are shock and stunned and deeply saddened by the baseless attack on the former VP but maybe it's time to pass the torch for the good of the party.
    Big sinister grin
    His face was so great.  You could literally see him thinking, oh my god..........

    Perfect (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 06, 2019 at 06:01:12 PM EST
    TUESDAY: Trump will present the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Edwin Meese.

    1988 (none / 0) (#109)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 06, 2019 at 06:06:07 PM EST
    Insufficient evidence to indict. The words are not an endorsement. Yet Edwin Meese III waved them like a badge of honor Tuesday as he announced his long overdue resignation as U.S. attorney general.

    Independent counsel James C. McKay delivered the 800-page summary of his 14- month investigation of the multiple misconduct charges against Meese to a special panel of appellate judges just hours before the attorney general revealed his plans to leave office.

    While the contents of the report aren't expected to be made public for several days, it has been known for some time that there would be no criminal charges brought against Meese. It also has been known, however, that the report will criticize the attorney general's chronic insensitivity in ethical matters.

    That would prompt an internal investigation by the Justice Department's Office of Professional Responsibility. All of the old allegations -- of influence peddling, selling federal jobs, cronyism, financial finagling, and the manipulation of federal investigations -- would be reviewed again, this time for possible violations of federal ethics laws. By quitting now, Meese lessens the likelihood of further embarrassment for the Reagan administration


    While conservative Republicans might brush off such criticism as partisan rhetoric, the man most pleased by the resignation has to be George Bush, the GOP nominee for president. With his affinity for questionable deals and associations with indicted buddies, Meese has been a sitting duck, a sleazy target for every Democrat running for office and a major distraction for the Bush campaign.

    In accepting his longtime friend's resignation, President Reagan said he had no one in mind to succeed him. It won't be easy to find a capable replacement for the short time remaining in Reagan's second term. Considering the attorney general's performance, an empty desk could be an improvement.

    To paraphrase an old cliche, Edwin Meese has brightened up an administration just by leaving it.

    So basically (none / 0) (#111)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Oct 06, 2019 at 09:18:12 PM EST
    he would have fit right in with the current administration.

    So who's the next (none / 0) (#112)
    by Zorba on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 08:29:25 AM EST
    Person Trump will present the Medal of Freedom to?  Dick Cheney?

    I (none / 0) (#113)
    by FlJoe on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 09:23:41 AM EST
    hear Rudy Giuliani is on the short list...if he doesn't get thrown under a bus first.

    I was thinking (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 09:32:47 AM EST
    The black guy in the giant cowboy hat.

    I can't quite figure (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 09:38:01 AM EST
    This thing with the abandonment of the Kurds.  Is he really so stupid and power mad he would do something so horrible even Ms Lindsey is in a lather?

    So often you wonder is there some scary plan here or just random shi+.

    Not sure which is scarier


    David Frum (none / 0) (#116)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 09:44:06 AM EST
    listed a few possiblities one being that it helps Trump's potential business in Turkey. Another one is fealty to Putin, the boss man, but then that reason can be used for almost everything he does.

    Well sure. (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 09:54:27 AM EST
    All that.
    My question was why/how would he do this, right now.  Guaranteeing a backlash from his own party.  Is it a distraction?

    Is it pure hubris?

    Who knows.  Which is worse.


    I'm doubting there ... (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Yman on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 11:36:49 AM EST
    ... will be a real backlash from his party.  Just the usual, few outliers expressing "concern" over the decision.  They're all a bunch of craven cowards held prisoner by a sycophantic base that doesn't know a Syrian Kurd from a cheese curds - and couldn't care less.

    Yeah, (none / 0) (#125)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 02:35:08 PM EST
    they will be fine with Kurds being slaughtered simply because well, they either have the wrong religion or the wrong skin color or both.

    Surprised by McConnell's ... (none / 0) (#126)
    by Yman on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 03:00:10 PM EST
    ... relatively forceful statement.  We'll see if they actually DO anything ... but I'm not holding my breath.  Like you said, they're our allies, but they're the wrong color and religion in Trumpland.  Not to mention that Trump has a couple of towers in Turkey he has to worry about.

    Maybe (none / 0) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 10:01:09 AM EST
    he made no decision on the timing and it was Turkey calling the shots. After all Turkey has all the information about the journalist that was murdered and cut into pieces. Maybe Erdogan is the one saying you have to do this now or I'm gonna drop the tapes.

    Maybe he is a fascist autocrat wannabe (none / 0) (#119)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 10:07:42 AM EST
    And he helping Erdogan because they are members of the new cool kids table, with Kim an Xi and Vlad.

    OK (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 10:35:09 AM EST
    I'm really scared.  

    Donald J. Trump
    As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I've done before!). They must, with Europe and others, watch over...
    10:38 AM · Oct 7, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

    He (none / 0) (#121)
    by FlJoe on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 11:07:42 AM EST
    left out the "I am Oz" part.

    Yikes.. (none / 0) (#123)
    by desertswine on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 12:04:36 PM EST
    Head-case Alert!

    Mother Jones article states (none / 0) (#124)
    by desertswine on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 12:19:19 PM EST
    that trump has major real estate investments in Turkey.

    "I have a little conflict of interest 'cause I have a major, major building in Istanbul," Trump told Bannon during a Breitbart radio show. "It's a tremendously successful job. It's called Trump Towers--two towers, instead of one, not the usual one, it's two."

    surely this is a parody (none / 0) (#127)
    by Peter G on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 04:37:11 PM EST
    and not real

    If you don't have Twitter (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 04:47:46 PM EST
    And follow Trump you really should.

    As crazy as I know that must sound.

    It's real.


    It will be how we learn the missiles are flying (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 07, 2019 at 05:09:33 PM EST
    The White House (none / 0) (#1)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 04:16:33 PM EST
    is laughing at Mrs Pelosi and the rest of the Democrats in Congress because they know she has no inclination to do anything but blather. She has turned out to be an immense disappointment.

    We are in uncharted political territory, for which there's really no modern historical precedent. Given that Democrats only control one half of Congress, the potential consequences of any mistake on her part -- such as an overreach -- could be catastrophic.

    We would do well to remember that up until this point in the opinion polls, even though a clear majority of the general public disapproves of Trump and is likely to vote against him in 2020, support for impeachment has been consistently hovering around 37%. While that number may change with the recent revelations, there's no guarantee that it will.

    Look, given the opportunity and her history, I'm more than certain that Nancy Pelosi would move immediately for Trump's impeachment if the public support was there. But it hasn't been, and that's the cold hard truth. Her many successes during her political career have come about because her liberal bona fides aside, she is also a sober realist who knows how to count numbers very well.

    And in that regard, I place my trust in Pelosi's judgment. I believe, as she does, that any attempt by House Democrats to move on impeachment absent the poll needle moving above 50% in support would likely be a profoundly foolish one, which could well place at risk everything we've gained in 2017-18.

    In football terms, it's like going for it on 4th-and-two from your own 43-yard line late in the 4th quarter when you're only up by two points. Yeah, you might succeed and then be able to run out the clock -- but what happens if you don't succeed, and turn the ball over on downs in your own territory as a result? A good coach will game out all aspects of that scenario prior to making that call. A lousy coach will simply channel Gen. Custer at the Little Bighorn River in 1876, and call upon his men to take no prisoners as they charge forward.

    At this critical juncture, I'm reminded of an appropriate observation that the late Susan B. Anthony once offered about religious zealotry, which similarly applies in our own circumstance: "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."

    In other words, let's please act with caution and resist the temptation to substitute our own personal desires for the collective wisdom of the majority, even though we may disagree vehemently with that majority opinion. Most people who attempt to buck a rip current in politics tend to not fare very well. It's best to wait for that tide to change to more favorable conditions, and then be ready to act decisively when it does.

    It serves no useful purpose to believe in your own infallible judgment when you lose. We need to win this one.



    How about this (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 05:36:03 PM EST
    In the absence of president we do what is right.  We follow the law.  



    Per the Federalist Papers No. 65, ... (none / 0) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 06:10:04 PM EST
    ... our country's founders ensured that the impeachment of a federal official would be as much a political call as a legal one. In that respect, the constitutional term "high Crimes and Misdemeanors" means whatever the House majority will want it to mean at a particular moment.

    And as we saw in President Bill Clinton's case 21 years ago, the term came to represent a perceived violation of the then-GOP majority's shape-shifting notion of private behavior and sexual decorum.

    Now, you guys can fume and fulminate all you want about the prospects for Trump's impeachment, but unless you can round up 218 votes in the House, it just ain't gonna happen.

    Hopefully, that will change. Perhaps this past week's revelations about Trump's shakedown of Ukraine might move the public to finally seek his removal from office prior to the end of his term, much like the "Saturday Night Massacre" of October 1973 did for Richard Nixon.

    But honestly, I don't have any confidence that it will do that, given the still-influential New York Times' absurd spin that the present scandal is somehow bad news for Joe Biden. The public will likely just wind up being confused and paralyzed as a result.

    From what I see, we no longer have a mainstream media that's up to the task. They're clearly more interested in ratings and clickbait and from their perspective, the best way to achieve that is to toss out a few false equivalences to foment public controversy. Thus, we're seeing Ken Vogel's baseless allegations about Joe Biden and Ukraine still being repeated in the media, even though they've been just as consistently debunked.



    In fact (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 06:19:59 PM EST
    The comparison of Trumps many violations of law and humanity to the entirely bogus entrapment of Clinton is just another version of both siderism

    It's a ridiculous comparison


    That's why I am a Baltimore Ravens fan (none / 0) (#12)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 06:09:33 PM EST
    Because they WILL go for it on 4th and 2 on the 43 yd line when up by 2.

    The time for caution is over. The time for testing the political wind is gone. Sometimes you have to what's right morally  or legally and throw caution to the wind. The Dems look weak to the American public. If they would act instead of blather those polls numbers would most likely invert.


    That's merely your perspective. (none / 0) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 06:44:39 PM EST
    You don't actually speak for the American public because per the most recent polls -- which were admittedly were conducted before this latest scandal broke -- that public clearly disagrees with you. Insulting Pelosi and Democrats as weak isn't likely to change their minds.

    If you seek change, then you must embody the change you seek. That means you need to get out there in your community and engage your neighbors on this subject, rather than rant to the Hallelujah Chorus here at TL, where I daresay most already agree with you about impeachment, myself included.

    In that respect, our work is cut out for us. Even in uber-liberal Hawaii, impeachment is only favored by 41% of the populace, even though Trump's approval rating has just about cratered at 18%. This is the political conundrum that our Democratic elected officials have to take into account.

    more to the point, look at what pandering to minority agitation has gotten the GOP. 40% of Republicans who were elected / re-elected to Congress in 2016 will be gone in January 2021. They are staring at a real disaster. I'm not willing to mitigate their problems by flouting public opinion ourselves with a similar act of reckless abandon on our part.

    So, unless that public opinion ratchets up significantly in favor of impeachment by December, pursuing it like Lord Cardigan and The Charge of the Light Brigade will be a fool's errand. Our efforts are best spent at beating Trump like an old rug in the November 2020 election, and then seeking his criminal indictment after he leaves office.

    That's all I have to say. Peace to all. Aloha.


    Washington Post (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 06:49:52 PM EST

    As many who support impeachment hearings have pointed out, in early 1973, Gallup polling showed that only 19 percent of Americans supported removing President Richard M. Nixon.

    The Democrats will lose (none / 0) (#29)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 12:31:03 PM EST
    bigly in 2020 (House, Senate, POTUS) if they go in looking weak. Americans consume the weak. Then discard them.

    Appearing to be weak is not a feature that appeals to the American electorate.


    Jeralyn: "I don't think Senate Republicans will vote to impeach Trump over misconduct pertaining to Joe Biden, especially in an election year. But it is another reason not to nominate Biden. Trump will turn the election into a referendum on whether Biden and his son engaged in misconduct rather than the important issues facing the country. The post-primary campaign would be a replay of Trump's distortion of the Hillary email story that will resonate with his underinformed supporters who will just love a rally where they can shout "lock him up"."

    ... aided and abetted in great part by the U.S. foreign policy apparatus which Trump already controls, seek to recreate a "Benghazi 2.0" by convincing Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to open a criminal investigation into Joe Biden's son Hunter based on - what, exactly? Giuliani's outlandish story about the then-vice president abusing his office to quash an investigation into his son? In fact, there was never an ongoing investigation in Ukraine in the first place for Biden to quash.

    Now, I've already stated here on numerous occasions that I'm not supporting Joe Biden's campaign for the 2020 Democratic nomination and that my preference lies with another candidate. That said, I'm also not going to stand idly by while others who purport to be Democrats embrace convenient portions of the Trump GOP's false narrative about the Bidens in order to further their own agendas.

    This is exactly what happened in 2016 with Benghazi, "But her emails!" and the Russian / Wikileaks hack of the DNC and Clinton campaign. Why are some of us so intent on lathering, rinsing and repeating?

    So, let me be perfectly clear here. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to support Democratic candidates other than Joe Biden during our party's primary process. The fact that he's being subjected to a nasty and baseless smear campaign by the Trump machine is not one of them.

    And as far as I'm concerned, any Democrat who publicly cites the Trump / Giuliani smear campaign as a rationale for not supporting Biden's nomination -- or candidacy, should he gain that nomination -- ought to check his or her party credentials at the door, go their own way and perhaps consider writing a check to Jill Stein's Russian-colluding Green Party.

    Because whether you realize it or not, you're carrying Trump's water for him. You are advocating exactly what Trump wants, out of some misguided fear that that a bunch of half-witted GOP delegates will shout some variant of 2016's "Lock her up!" at their next national convention.

    Well, guess what? Since the Republicans really don't have anything else to run on besides fear and envy, they're going to do that anyway, regardless of whoever our nominee finally is. We can't control their actions, so why worry even about it? Instead, direct your concerns and energy toward things you can actually influence and effect in your own community during the upcoming campaign.

    We are presently facing what is likely to be the most consequential presidential election of our lifetimes. This is our generation's "All hands on deck!" moment. So, for Heaven's sake, let's please dispense with our propensity to form circular firing squads by which we diss members of our own side, heedless of the possible ramifications of that internecine abuse.

    Surely, we can advocate positively for the candidates of our choice by highlighting their own attributes, rather than snarling at and denigrating other Democrats who are similarly pursuing the nomination. In this particular instance, Joe Biden is not the central issue because he and his son didn't do anything wrong in Ukraine. Rather, they are clearly the aggrieved party here.

    The bad actor in this case would be Trump himself, who's both flouting the law and thumbing his nose at us while he's doing so. That should be unacceptable to all of us. And that's where our attention should be properly focused.


    Thank you (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 05:04:18 PM EST

    Just the facts (none / 0) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 05:10:05 PM EST
    Donald (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 05:21:15 PM EST
    And as far as I'm concerned, any Democrat who publicly cites the Trump / Giuliani smear campaign as a rationale for not supporting Biden's nomination -- or candidacy, should he gain that nomination -- ought to check his or her party credentials at the door, go their own way and perhaps consider writing a check to Jill Stein's Russian-colluding Green Party.

    I don't know if the problem is reading comprehension or what but seriously, pi$$ off.

    Your opinion is duly noted. (none / 0) (#8)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 05:37:08 PM EST
    I've the right to my own opinion, and I stand by what I said. As for your penchant to take and make things personal, I'm content to let Jeralyn deal with that if she so desires.



    Yeah ya do (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 05:42:50 PM EST
    You do not have a right to throw shade at anyone who disagrees with you by silly shi+ like the Jill Stein quote and then whine when called out for it.

    House Democratic Leaders (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 06:38:55 PM EST
    Have called a caucus meeting tomorrow at 4 to discuss impeachment.

    Or I should say (none / 0) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 06:39:54 PM EST
    Questions of impeachment.

    And I expect questions of leadership.


    Johnathan Allen (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 06:46:40 PM EST
    "House Democrats have been pulling together a wide-ranging case to impeach President Donald Trump on a series of alleged past and ongoing crimes against the country -- a set of charges that goes far beyond the Mueller report -- and all signs point to a possible public inflection point later this week, when acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire testifies before the House Intelligence Committee," wrote Allen. "`The dam could break on Thursday,' said one senior House Democratic aide, whose boss has not endorsed impeachment."

    Joaquin Castro (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 07:18:44 PM EST
    "I sit on the Intelligence Committee and can't speak to what we were briefed on last week by the Inspector General, but between Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani, they basically confirmed about seventy-five percent of the reporting," Castro noted.

    "And I believe that the Speaker has laid down a gauntlet and asked that the whistle-blower information be brought to Congress by Thursday. If that information is not presented on Friday we should move forward with a formal impeachment proceeding."

    Debbie Dingle Sr majority whip (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 08:56:21 PM EST
    Just jumped on the impeachment train on live tv.

    This is happening.


    Yes, (none / 0) (#22)
    by KeysDan on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 09:49:38 PM EST
    Not just an impeachment inquiry, but, I believe, impeachment.
    And, Pence, Pompeo, and Mulvaney appear to be complicit,  

    As I stated, earlier, this is not a on-off, but a pattern.

    Now, the Democrats need lessons on how to conduct hearings, including how to deal with hostile, disrespectful witnesses, and obstruction at every turn.  


    You go to war (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 10:17:29 PM EST
    With the army you have.  Even if they can screw up a two car parade.

    There are some very pointed things about this.

    Unlike Russia it's really easy to understand.  And at the same time it reinforces the whole Russia narrative.

    You can only hope the recent fiasco left a mark.  

    Republicans are getting nervous.  Mitt is the canary.  But there have been other cracks.  I said before, when the bottom falls out it will happen fast.  


    As far as impeachment (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 23, 2019 at 10:22:00 PM EST
    Numbers are growing by the minute.  Rosa Delauro released a statement.  And thevreporting is Nancy is actively asking other leaders if its time ahead of this caucus meeting tomorrow.

    I think it's time.  But she didn't ask me.


    John (none / 0) (#26)
    by FlJoe on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 11:55:34 AM EST
    Lewis went there it looks inevitable now.

    This way more "real time" than that oldie moldy Mueller report, giving the public and the media the play by play excitement.

    If Nancy's strategy was to give tRump enough rope to hang himself then it is now or never.


    Nancy says announcement later (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 12:04:46 PM EST
    It might be this

    We want the transcript.  We want the report.  We want them by Thursday or on Friday we go.


    I like this (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 12:08:51 PM EST
    Fineman's reporting echoes that of journalist David Shuster, who reports that Pelosi "will green light a `narrow' impeachment inquiry" to obtain a vote on impeachment "in weeks not months."

    I absolutely think it should be narrow and focused.  On this event.  Mueller has passed the sell by date.


    The stable genius opens his mouth and... (none / 0) (#25)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 11:54:00 AM EST
    Trump asked a foreign power to interfere in United (none / 0) (#30)
    by ChiCity on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 12:39:14 PM EST
    States elections. Trump asked the Head of a Foreign Sovereign Power to actively interfere in the US Presidential election. Even if I had been positive (or even neutral) about his Presidency before, this deserves removal.

    Just don't expect any acknowledgement (none / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 12:58:39 PM EST
    or help whatsoever from the party that's sold it's soul to the theocratic culture warriors and armed militias.

    Back in the day, some Republicans saw the writing on the wall and turned on Nixon. That won't happen again in this time and place.


    I don't think that's necessarily true (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 01:02:24 PM EST
    I think the minute Trump becomes a problem for them, which is coming, they will kick him to the curb.

    Trump just tweeted he is releasing the transcript of a phone conversation with Z.

    He's sweating.  And so are his republican enablers


    Should (4.75 / 4) (#34)
    by FlJoe on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 01:19:22 PM EST
    we expect the transcript to we written with a sharpie?

    Schiff (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 01:21:34 PM EST

    Adam Schiff
    We have been informed by the whistleblower's counsel that their client would like to speak to our committee and has requested guidance from the Acting DNI as to how to do so.

    We`re in touch with counsel and look forward to the whistleblower's testimony as soon as this week.
    1:29 PM · Sep 24, 2019·Twitter for iPad

    Minutes ago (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 01:04:23 PM EST

    Donald J. Trump
    I am currently at the United Nations representing our Country, but have authorized the release tomorrow of the complete, fully declassified and unredacted transcript of my phone conversation with President Zelensky of Ukraine....
    1:12 PM · Sep 24, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

    Donald J. Trump
    Replying to
    ....You will see it was a very friendly and totally appropriate call. No pressure and, unlike Joe Biden and his son, NO quid pro quo! This is nothing more than a continuation of the Greatest and most Destructive Witch Hunt of all time

    Moscow Mitch (none / 0) (#36)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 01:51:57 PM EST
    knows nothing.  Nothing, I tell you.  McConnell said today that he was given no explanation for the delay in military aid to Ukraine. And, he asked Sec of Defense Espper about it, and Pompeo, twice.  He wants us to know that he was very much in favor of that aid package to Ukraine.

    Oh. oh.

    Mitch just now (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 03:01:16 PM EST
    Hot lined a resolution calling for the release of the whistle blower report.  Schumer calls for unanimous consent.

    Like I said.  The bottom will drop out


    And this (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 03:08:42 PM EST
    Moscow Mitch (none / 0) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 03:22:00 PM EST
    got tripped up by that deep throat, Paddy O' Furniture.

    I am struggling (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 03:28:08 PM EST
    With alcohol and chemical assistance to get my mind around the fact impeachment was dead.


    Trump single handedly, unapologetically revived it.

    There is now a serious chance he will be the third president impeached and the FIRST removed from office.

    I can not wait for the cults reaction.


    Yes, and (none / 0) (#46)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 03:34:05 PM EST
    the resolution, unanimously, passed by the Senate indicates that Moscow Mitch will not be able to blow off a House Impeachment, as has been argued. This is serious business.  

    I can now (none / 0) (#56)
    by MKS on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 10:41:57 PM EST
    envision a President Pence running for re-election against Elizabeth Warren.

    Senate passed, unanimously, (none / 0) (#45)
    by KeysDan on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 03:29:38 PM EST
    a non-binding resolution calling on IG to proved the whistleblower complaint to House and Senate Intel Committees.

    Trump offering up (none / 0) (#37)
    by CST on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 01:55:49 PM EST
    The transcripts and gun control.

    Someone sweating?

    I have to wonder (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 05:47:15 PM EST
    if the transcripts are going to be legit. They've been known to doctor something as simple as a press conference before.

    A transcript is much easier to doctor (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Peter G on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 07:13:12 PM EST
    than a weather map.

    I'm seein Bryan Cranston (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 07:28:55 PM EST
    As Trump.

    Sarah Paulson (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 24, 2019 at 07:52:50 PM EST
    As Nancy

    Vlad has discussed this (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 02, 2019 at 08:14:53 AM EST
    In a public forum.  There is some great moments here but my favorite was when Putin was asked how he would feel about his conversations with Trump being made public.

    He said he thought they would make HIM look very good.  

    If I was Trump that would terrify me.


    Republicans (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 04, 2019 at 11:15:18 AM EST
    Apart from the usual "Grooms of his Stool" seem very very quiet.

    Don't seem to be lining up for (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 04, 2019 at 11:18:13 AM EST


    FOX    "Fox News Sunday": Panel: Karl Rove, Julie Pace, Josh Holmes and Juan Williams. Power Player of the Week: Kennedy Center President Deborah Rutter.
    CNN    "State of the Union": Panel: Linda Chavez, Mitch Landrieu, Amanda Carpenter and Karen Finney.
    ABC    "This Week": Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) ... Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio). Panel: Matthew Dowd, Terry Moran, Yvette Simpson and Alice Stewart.
    CBS    "Face the Nation": Rep. Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.) ... Rep. Jim Himes (D-Conn.) ... Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) ... Bob Woodward and Peter Baker. Panel: Ramesh Ponnuru, Susan Page, Julie Hirschfeld Davis and Jamelle Bouie.
    CNN    "Inside Politics": Julie Hirschfeld Davis, Jeff Zeleny, Seung Min Kim and Toluse Olorunnipa.


    I imagine them (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 04, 2019 at 11:21:57 AM EST
    In a room holding hands, like people in a burning building, and praying for guidance about when jumping is better.

    Jared Kushner (none / 0) (#66)
    by KeysDan on Fri Oct 04, 2019 at 11:27:57 AM EST
    is ridding to the rescue. Along with Mulvaney, and Lindseybelle.  Kushner will do for Trump as he has done for Middle East peace.  And, everything else he touches, including 666.

    I read this yesterday (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 04, 2019 at 11:34:15 AM EST
    Which was "change of stratgerie " day.  New plan, say yeah I did it.  So what.

    You could literally hear Jared's puky preppy voice.  Listen to it again.

    After The Orange Shitgibbon got the question he wanted so he could say his lines he said "It's a very simple answer really"

    Can't you just hear it in his voice.

    Also the next part (add whiny entitled affectation) "China was really just as bad as that other one, um wh, Ukraine....

    Jared to the rescue

    Yeah baby.


    2 words (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 04, 2019 at 12:05:43 PM EST
    Well, a word and a number

    ROMNEY 2020


    It would (none / 0) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 04, 2019 at 02:32:42 PM EST
    seem that they are hiding from the press or play avoidance like "I haven't read it" when it comes to any reports of what has been going on with Trump and the Ukraine and China and Russia.

    Joy Reid (none / 0) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 10:06:30 AM EST
    Just put up a list of every republican senator they had contacted repeatedly to give them a chance to comment on Trump In The Driveway, as it will come to be known.

    It was every one.  No takers.


    This is new (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 04, 2019 at 04:56:12 PM EST
    Our Senator RoJo (none / 0) (#89)
    by Towanda on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 10:54:44 AM EST
    is so stupid that he got himself mixed up in this mess. So stupid that in attempting to help his hero Trump, our Senator RoJo did the opposite and may land on the witness stand.

    If so, all of you will be able to see just how Senator RoJo is,


    The fact he thought he was helping (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 11:14:03 AM EST



    another RoJo performance for the ages (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 06, 2019 at 09:53:44 AM EST

    Chuck Todd blows up on Ron Johnson in stunning shouting match after Trump defender refuses to answer his questions

    I hate ChuckieCeeze as much as any one but ...
    Let us give thanks for useful idiots.


    You know (none / 0) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 11:41:53 AM EST
    when I saw that I wondered what was going on since Johnson has been such a Trumper. I thought why is helping us out? Well, now that makes a lot of sense.

    Johnson always reminds me of the stereotypical dumb Midwesterner that my aunt in MN talks about with her Ollie and Lena jokes.


    Couldn't believe it ... (none / 0) (#92)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 11:45:39 AM EST
    ... when I heard his statement.  My first thought was, "Wow - an honest Republican not afraid to blow holes in the laughable attempt at feigning "No quid pro quo here!".  Guess he's just another stupid Republican who has no clue what he's doing.  Almost as good, I guess.

    Did RoJo (none / 0) (#94)
    by MKS on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 12:05:44 PM EST
    retract his comments to WSJ about what Sonland told him about withholding aid to trigger Biden investigation?

    I heard somewhere that the light went on in Johnson's head and he said he was misquoted?  Can't find this "retraction" anywhere.   But,then again, I think it was Cuomo who said there was a retraction.  Maybe just dumb and dumber at work?


    The White House (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 04, 2019 at 05:08:56 PM EST
    Is officially served

    2nd Ukrainian whistleblower (none / 0) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Oct 04, 2019 at 08:16:46 PM EST
    Howdy, (none / 0) (#74)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 04, 2019 at 08:55:16 PM EST
    The odds, I would say, are probably greater than 50/50 that Trump is gone by year's end.

    By (none / 0) (#75)
    by FlJoe on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 05:45:08 AM EST
    what mechanism?

    Resignation (<1%), impeachment and conviction(~20%), 25th amendment(~10%)? (my current odds).

    In my mind those odds have not changed over what has been revealed so far.

    We are at the point where tRump is committing crimes/abuses of power in public and having daily rants that are pure lunacy.

    All we get is a slight quiver on Romney's "troubling" meter.


    Well (none / 0) (#76)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 06:30:34 AM EST
    at least Moscow Mitch has said that he will hold an impeachment trial in the senate. My guess at this point is we're going to have an impeachment trial happening the same time as the primaries.

    I agree with MKS (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 07:20:57 AM EST
    This is getting worse every day.  And I really think we are only seeing the proverbial tip of the iceberg.

    More will be coming forward.  

    This is what I think, for us a senate vote is a win win.  If they vote to remove him they are screwed.  If they do not vote to remove him they are screwed.  

    I actually think there could well be more than a few republicans watching his freak out and thinking removal might be the only way to get rid of him not only because he will foul the election to win but even if he loses he won't leave.

    Also when republicans start to switch opinion will change.

    There will always be the cult core but I think it's smaller than generally thought.  And if it gets bad enough they could actually gain as many votes in the middle as they lose from the cult.

    One other thing.  Violence.  If anything happens, which it totally could, and even seems like incitement  it could dramatically change the equation


    The Hill (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 07:33:22 AM EST
    President Trump's approval ratings appear to be softening among members of his own party and independents, according to a series of polls conducted by The Hill and HarrisX since July.

    The president's approval rating among Republicans sat at 87 percent in July, but has slipped to 79 percent in the latest Hill-HarrisX survey conducted earlier this month

    I (none / 0) (#79)
    by FlJoe on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 07:38:05 AM EST
    agree to a point, if the fall comes it won't be gradual, I just don't know what the tipping point is.

    I also think Romney (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 07:46:42 AM EST
    Is more important that some think.

    This Times OpEd (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 07:51:25 AM EST
    Does not mention Romney.  But it's a open letter to him

    Republicans Don't Have to Nominate Trump in 2020


    I (none / 0) (#97)
    by FlJoe on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 12:50:44 PM EST
    thought he would be a thorn in his side from the get get go, but so far just a few furrowed brows.

    Romney, like most of the Repug Senators is a coward, albeit a politically calculating one.

    There are 4 breeds of Repug senators; Compromised (Lindsey), Stupid (Johnson), power hungry (Tom Cotton) cowards (Susan Collins).

    Of course there are mongrels who are a nasty mix of all four( Mitch McConnel).

    You are correct in thinking that someone like Romney who is a mix of coward and power hungry would me most likely to turn on tRump.


    None of the three (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 04:55:25 PM EST
    Declared republicans have any real chance of actually winning a primary.

    Romney just might.  And in the process begin the long journey to retaking the party from the white nationalists.

    It would be very hard to not have a primary anywhere if Romney jumped in.

    Then there is the fact he is self absorbed enough to see himself as on a mission from god.

    Not likely I suppose but if the tide turns, and they all know if they expect it to, Romney as a guiding light is not bad.

    And btw IMO Romney could be a real problem in the general.  Way more than Trump or Pence


    My thoughts (none / 0) (#82)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 08:14:27 AM EST
    on him resigning are I won't believe Trump will want to be facing charges that are going to happen once he leaves office. There may not need to be an enticement of no charges but just the announcement that there are the votes to remove him. If it comes to that either way Trump is screwed. He can stand and have a big trial and then be removed or he can just go ahead and quit. Frankly in that scenario there's really no advantage to Trump staying. All staying would do is delay the obvious criminal charges that are coming his way.

    Also (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 09:16:07 AM EST
    When they start using the Impeachment as as hammer there are many other things they could crack open.

    Taxes, for example.  This new story about the IRS whistle blower is I think a not so subtle reminder of this.


    Exit strategy (none / 0) (#95)
    by MKS on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 12:08:20 PM EST
    Get Pence to Pardon....do a deal.

    I wish I was ... (none / 0) (#93)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 11:57:28 AM EST
    ... that optomistic.  Given all of the things he's done openly while campaigning and now in office, I think he was right when he said he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Ave. and not lose a vote.  He's already made public requests for foreign governments to investigate his political opponents, called whistleblowers traitors who should be executed and  now we know he's offering quid pro quos to those governments. He might lose a few votes, but I'm not sure what else could come out that would cause his supporters to turn on him.

    As was said.. (none / 0) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 12:15:50 PM EST
    We are all on 5th Ave now.

    We (none / 0) (#98)
    by FlJoe on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 12:55:11 PM EST
    are all the pu$$y being grabbed now.

    When you're the president they let you do it.


    Yesterday (none / 0) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 10:16:11 AM EST
    I heard without really listening some guy talking about how this whole "whistle blower" thing is the new way.  After two years of stonewalling they wanted a way the information could go straight to congress bypassing Justice.  That this will continue.  A big blow is coming.  

    Gregory Meeks just sort of said the same thing I think.

    Not bad.

    Funny to think if this is true the interception of that first one was sort of like grabbing the cheese in the trap

    So fortunate (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 10:44:31 AM EST
    Some committee members were aware of the report and its interception.

    Even paranoids (none / 0) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 10:45:41 AM EST
    have enemies.

    The New Way (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 06, 2019 at 10:09:33 AM EST
    Which (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by FlJoe on Sun Oct 06, 2019 at 11:06:36 AM EST
    begs the question. How many whistle blowers does it take to flip 20 Republican Senators.

    We may (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 06, 2019 at 11:29:43 AM EST
    Find out

    One whistleblower (none / 0) (#110)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Oct 06, 2019 at 08:23:16 PM EST
    seems to have a lot of them hiding in the senate cloakroom.

    Yep (none / 0) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Oct 06, 2019 at 10:40:50 AM EST
    it is going to be a cascade of whistle blowers from now on.

    Honestly (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Oct 06, 2019 at 10:47:07 AM EST
    I'm kind of impressed

    So far, (none / 0) (#99)
    by KeysDan on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 01:39:34 PM EST
    There is Pence, Barr, Pompeo, Mulvaney, and Perry---with Trump, of course, at the top of the pile.  And, then there are all the lower tiers inhabited by the likes of Sondland.  Rudy, at a minimum, is likely on his way to disbarment sharing in that honor with Trump's previous fixers, Roy Cohn and Michael Cohen.

    The whole lot of them need to go--pronto.

    Went to see "Where's My Roy Cohn" tonite (none / 0) (#101)
    by Peter G on Sat Oct 05, 2019 at 08:28:54 PM EST
    A documentary by Matt Tyrnauer. While constructed as a revealing profile of the power-mad, amoral, closeted, ultimate crooked lawyer (imagined also as a character in "Angels in America"), it is actually an anti-Tr*mp expose, showing the roots of his strategy and style as a devotee and client of Cohn's. See it if you can.