Tuesday Night TV and Open Thread

We already have a debate thread up, so I'm moving on to other TV topics. The Bachelorette's ratings have been gold this season and last's night first half of the finale reached 7.1 million viewers. Telemundo is really happy with the ratings for La Reina del Sur, which had its finale last night. In fact, Telemundo has crowned the show the Queen of Primetime.

I loved this season of La Reina del Sur and watched every one of the 60 episodes, most of them twice. There were so many plot twists, many of which I did not see coming, and the action was non-stop. Kate del Castillo and the entire cast went all in -- terrific performances by all. The only thing I didn't care for was the ending. It was a cliff-hanger. Considering it took 8 years to film the second season, does this mean we have to wait to 2027 for the next one? [More...]

Here are some of the stats Telemundo is citing for the show:

  • Shot in eight countries and 14 cities
  • More than 300 different locations used
  • Filming included 187 actors from multiple nationalities and more than 7,000 extras
  • More than 860 hours of raw material shot
  • Filmed with cinema optics and post-produced in 4K
  • Production team of more than 700 crew members
  • 89 action scenes filmed utilizing all modes of transportation, including cars, trains, planes, motorcycles and more than 40 hours on civil and military helicopters

I was thinking about whether there is any similarity between the character Teresa Mendoza on LRDS and Hannah B. on the Bachelorette. It's a stretch.

Teresa began as a money-changer on the streets of Culiacan in Sinaloa with a knack for numbers. It's her ability to calculate and memorize numbers that propels her into becoming the largest cocaine distributor in Europe. She doesn't use, buy or sell the drug. She creates the shipping and distribution routes from Mexico to Europe and with her talent for numbers and dollar counting, makes a fortune, all parlayed into legitmate companies. Her closest allies are her friends from prison and the brothel/bar she worked at when she first ran for her life from Mexico to Spain. She is fearless and independent. I wrote after season one that she was a terrific role model for women.

Hannah too, for all her awkwardness on last year's season the Bachelor, turned into a role model of sorts on this season of the Bachelorette -- she fought back against being slut-shamed. When she was a contestant last year, she could't put 10 words together. This season, she was able to express her feelings and thoughts pretty coherently (other than her over-use of the word "clarity"). You could see her growing in self-esteem each week, although she was always held back somewhat by her lousy instincts in men.

Hannah had some iconic lines this season -- "Yes I've had sex and Jesus still loves me". And her disclosure to one overly arrogant and controlling contestant that she had sex in a windmill with another contestant, not once, but twice, in the same night. (Amazingly, the sex partner's parents were in the audience as she disclosed last night it was four times not twice, and they cheered.) Her whole being resonates "you don't own me" and "even if we get married, you never will". Good for her.

Teresa also has lousy judgment when it comes to romantic partners (after her first love, who unbeknownst to her until after he was killed was a DEA informant while working for a cartel.) She is prone to keeping the good ones at bay (like Santiago in season one) and letting the conniving ones in (Like Teo last season and Lupo this season).

Teresa has self-confidence that only comes with life experience and Hannah is not there yet. Teresa is comfortable balancing her hell-bent, risk-taking nature with a softer side that endears her to friends and allies, and even competitors. She is fiercely protective of her inncer circle. She loves who she wants when she wants. It is this combination that earns her the lifelong dedication of the biggest Russian mafioso in Europe.

Hannah is still teetering on a see-saw trying to balance her self-confidence and independence on the one hand with her need for a man to unconditionally profess his love and promise to protect her on the other.

When it's all said and done, I could never watch 60 episodes of Hannah B or any Bachelor/ette, while La Reina del Sur, after watching 60 episodes five nights a week for three months straight, leaves me wanting more.

And that's what I have been watching. This is an open thread, all topics welcome, TV or not.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Got a call (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Jul 31, 2019 at 03:33:12 PM EST
    ...from the Opinion Page editor of the local rag, informing me that my letter would run today.

    He also told me that he can only use my material about every three weeks. I specialize in one-sentence letters.  Here is today's.

    I am noticing that the commentary in the media is insisting that any potential Democratic candidate for president must have detailed and specific "policy goals" if they intend to beat a man who ran on the deep policy goals of, "Look at the size of my hands," "Build the wall" and "Lock her up."

    Hidden lefty history (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Dadler on Sat Aug 03, 2019 at 01:40:23 PM EST
    Non-(sh)Amazon link (none / 0) (#24)
    by Dadler on Sat Aug 03, 2019 at 01:41:47 PM EST
    "adlerpoems" @ SPD in Berkeley

    Peas & Loaves to all.


    Poem on the back cover (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Dadler on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 04:05:29 PM EST

    You are not worth
    As much as a bullet

    You are not worth
    As much as our delusions

    You are not worth
    As much as an AR-15

    You are not worth
    As much as our feces

    You are not worth
    As much as our Amazon discount

    You are not worth
    As much as our parking spaces

    You are not worth it.
    Abandon us now, save yourselves

    I would not lie to you,
    Run for your lives, roll over us, crush us

    You cannot be children

    from "adlerpoems"
    Dr. Cicero Books 2019

    R.I.P. Toni Morrison (5.00 / 4) (#103)
    by Zorba on Tue Aug 06, 2019 at 10:08:59 AM EST
    Great writer.  Great woman.

    The girlfriend (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 06, 2019 at 12:41:03 PM EST

    He talked about mass murder. On the first date he showed her videos of mass murder.

    "It was weird but not in the sense of psychology"

    Honey.  Get in line for f'ing counseling

    Was just reading the same. (none / 0) (#105)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 06, 2019 at 12:55:56 PM EST
    Caitlyn "Adelia" Johnson, 24, and Betts briefly dated this spring, NBC reported. She told The (Toledo) Blade the two met in their psychology class at Sinclair Community College. They bonded over their struggles with mental illness; Johnson said she has depression and anxiety, and Betts told her he was bipolar and had Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

    Well, (none / 0) (#107)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 06, 2019 at 02:15:26 PM EST
    if he was truly mentally ill then frankly that one could have been prevented. Remember Trump undid the mental health requirement Obama had in place when it came to buying guns.

    From CNN (none / 0) (#109)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 06, 2019 at 03:09:29 PM EST
    The Obama administration's rule, which took effect two days before Trump's inauguration, restricted people who required help managing government benefits and had a mental impairment from buying guns. That includes those with eating disorders, cognitive impairments and depression. Multiple disability groups, along with the American Civil Liberties Union opposed the regulation.

    but, before anyone starts making up in their heads some sort of imagined story of my actual intent, usually in direct conflict with the words that I actually wrote, that they can then justifiably and heroically oppose, please understand that I do not oppose more stringent background checks.

    Nor do I (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 06, 2019 at 08:01:21 PM EST
    Actually the point of my comment was that the girlfriend, who thought it was not a problem psychologically that he showed her images of mass murder on the first date, was the "sane" one.

    Gotcha. (none / 0) (#114)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 10:29:25 AM EST
    You know what? (none / 0) (#111)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 06, 2019 at 04:40:54 PM EST
    I have a mentally ill sister. She has shown no propensity to violence but she should never own a firearm. There are just some people that should not own them. And Americans have shown that they absolutely cannot handle assault weapons.

    You did read my comment #110, right? (none / 0) (#112)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 06, 2019 at 05:08:16 PM EST
    Tucker Carlson goes fishing (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 08, 2019 at 06:24:20 PM EST
    Nixon resigned (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 08, 2019 at 09:22:50 PM EST
    45 years ago today.  Miracles do happen.

    Technically (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 08, 2019 at 09:25:40 PM EST
    I guess the announcement was 45 years ago today and the resignation tomorrow

    Enjoyed Once Upon a Time In Hollywood (none / 0) (#1)
    by McBain on Wed Jul 31, 2019 at 11:50:45 AM EST
    yesterday.  Tarantino movies with long scenes of dialog are a nice alternative to all the CGI superhero movies, horror flicks and most of everything else that gets released for mass consumption.

    As for TV, I'm struggling to get through the third season of Stranger Things.  It's not bad just tired. I finished season two of Big Little Lies. Meryl Streep was a good addition but other than her storyline, there wasn't much else to get into.  I think the success of season one forced a second effort that really wasn't needed.  

    HBO's latest true crime documentary Who Killed Garrett Philips is worth a view if you like that genre. Based on what was shown in the documentary, it looked like a rush to judgement. There's a ridiculous scene where the police wouldn't let their prime suspect leave the interview/interrogation room even though he wasn't under arrest.

    Thank you (none / 0) (#2)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jul 31, 2019 at 12:38:21 PM EST
    for the reviews.  Hollywood is on my list, so your comments are appreciated.  As for TV, I am behind you and the Captain...just midway through Season One of Jack Ryan, finished Mindhunters and looking forward to the next season, and have enjoyed Happy Valley (which you recommended some time back). In the Line of Duty sounds like something to watch, so it is on my TV list.

    The wife and I walked out. (none / 0) (#14)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Aug 02, 2019 at 06:33:07 AM EST
    Just could not get into it. YMMV.

    I saw that Tarantino movie, too. (none / 0) (#6)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 31, 2019 at 06:02:06 PM EST
    I freely admit that I went against my better judgment, and I'm now very sorry I did. 25 years ago, Quentin Tarantino's work product was deservedly considered stylish, edgy and avant-garde. Nowadays, I find the celluloid swill he dispenses to be kitschy, retrograde and at times embarrassingly adolescent.

    Once again, the director has chosen to literally rewrite history as a means to indulge both his own fairly toxic rage / vengeance fantasies and his fetishes about violence and masculinity. And shame on me for being foolish enough to think that this outing would somehow be different.

    Honestly, I found "Once Upon a Time ... in Hollywood" to be nothing more than 150 minutes of whitewashed nostalgia p0rn, emphasis on the white, in which we're supposed to pine for a simpler time when men were men, and women were madonnas and / or wh0res -- or in the case of Brad Pitt's wife, a bikini-clad nag who deserves to be killed.

    I mean, never mind that in the America of 1969, the country was actually struggling with the burden of its own mythologized identity in the wake of the assassinations of Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert Kennedy, racial unrest on our cities and the ongoing quagmire that was the Vietnam War.

    Because through Tarantino's rose-colored glasses, 1969 is a magical era when most cars still had fins and got 11 miles per gallon of gas (which was okay because gas cost only 30 cents a gallon), the two top TV shows were "Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In" and "Gunsmoke," and masculine straight white guys were both underappreciated and always the heroes of everything. Gee, who wouldn't long for such an  era -- right?

    You know who probably doesn't long for that? People who aren't white male Christian heterosexuals. People like my wife, who's of Mexican descent, and who literally cringed right next to me in the theatre when the line "Don't cry in front of the Mexicans" was played for laughs. I can assure you, the only people who are in on that so-called joke are white.

    (And don't get me started on the film's unnecessary Bruce Lee interlude, which was both offensive and incredibly disrespectful to the memory of that late actor.)

    Look, I won't deny that Tarantino clearly has the technical talents necessary to be an astounding filmmaker, because he's a gifted writer with an ear for casual banter and a brilliant cinematographer with an eye for framing the shot. But in my opinion, he undercuts his own potential for genius with his own apparent lack of emotional maturity. And because of that, his films have unfortunately become tediously repetitive variations of the same themes.

    Unless and until Quentin Tarantino finally grows up, I'd say the odds are better than even that future film historians will argue the director's creativity likely peaked with 1997's "Jackie Brown" because in my estimation, everything he's done in the 22 years since then has been increasingly self-absorbed, grounded in caricature and often bordering on self-parody.



    The Jackie Brown Tarantino (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 31, 2019 at 08:21:21 PM EST
    Probably would not have been given the next Star Trek movie.

    He is directing the next Star Trek movie.


    Well, the Star Trek franchise, ... (none / 0) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 12:38:24 AM EST
    ... like Tarantino's work, also ain't what it used to be. "Star Trek Into Darkness" was so unoriginal they had to purloin the storyline of "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan."

    Maybe Tarantino can weave a rage fantasy into his Star Trek story, and have Captain Kirk and Lt. Uhura sodomize Khan with a can of Crisco, a broomstick and a bag of doorknobs, while Mr. Spock and Dr. McCoy patiently await their turn to set him alight with a flamethrower before dismembering him with a hacksaw.



    I thought the Bruce Lee scene was (none / 0) (#8)
    by McBain on Wed Jul 31, 2019 at 10:13:04 PM EST
    the best part.  I also liked the Spahn Ranch scene.

    I'm not sure where I'd rank this with Tarantino's other work yet but, overall, it was refreshing to see something  politically incorrect.  

    My main criticism of Tarantino is he needs just a little bit more editing.  He should keep his scenes long but not quite that long.  I also think the violence is too cartoonish.  I know he's a big comic book guy but his death scenes are so over the top they remove some of the tension he worked so hard to establish..... Django Unchained being a good example.  



    Tarantino just always (none / 0) (#9)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 01, 2019 at 12:01:14 AM EST
    struck me as a super smart sixteen-year-old who saw every action movie and cop show ever made in the sixties and seventies.

    His got this whole "this would be a really cool way to kill someone" thing that a lot of teenage boys have.


    Great filmmakers need great editors (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by McBain on Fri Aug 02, 2019 at 04:52:18 PM EST
    Maybe they should hire (none / 0) (#29)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 03, 2019 at 07:48:51 PM EST
    a great editor to direct.

    Tarantino's stuff is reminding me more and more of Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter.

    But, to each his own, as they say.


    Bruce Lee and (none / 0) (#72)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 02:12:23 PM EST
    Spahn Ranch scenes had Brad Pitt knocking the crap out of other people.

    The "Mexican" comment (none / 0) (#71)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 02:10:15 PM EST
    was unfortunate....trying to make bigotry funny is not a good thing.

    But I thought the rewrite of history was sweet.  An innocent joyous Sharon Tate lives....


    I saw it last night. I think Tarantino's line "Don't cry in front of the Mexicans" was meant to be cringey. To point out marginalization.

    imo, the Bruce Lee scene was mainly to develop Cliff's previously laconic character as having an edgy and volatile side, when he wasn't dutifully playing butler to his boss, Rick. Heck, maybe he had that edge because he spent so many years playing second-fiddle to Rick.

    That said there are many, many other ways to develop that w/o trashing Bruce Lee's memory.

    I think the main thing "rose colored" was his depiction of Tate's character, I have no idea how accurate it actually is.

    Most everything else was pretty much a downer, imo. Exposing the fears and insecurities that lie just underneath the glitz and glam.

    It did seem relatively plotless for much of its almost 3 hours.

    And I coulda done with a lot fewer examples of Tarantino's fetish with women's feet, tbh.


    The "rose colored" (none / 0) (#115)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 12:42:03 PM EST
    Sharon Tate was the point....An alternate history that was better than the original....

    I think there are people like the "rose colored" Tate, at least some.


    Agreed. (none / 0) (#116)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    Tarantino's Sharon Tate was a Barbie doll. (none / 0) (#120)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 05:05:19 PM EST
    As far as the "Mexicans" line goes, if you view the arc of Tarantino's work, he is obviously less interested in pointing out the fallacies of racial and ethnic marginalization, than he is merely comfortable with casual racism.

    Such dialogue is not uncommon in Tarantino's work. Consider his "dead ni--er storage" remark in his 1994 film "Pulp Fiction." It wasn't inserted in there to open the public's eyes about the inherent societal perils of casual racism. Rather, it IS casual racism, uttered for its own sake.

    Casual racism certainly exists in everyday life. I don't think Hollywood should necessarily whitewash it out of existence onscreen, and as long as it services the plot, I don't have a problem with it.

    But we should also keep in mind that in many respects, casual racism is insidious in nature because it's often latent in its expression. That is, we can be so comfortable with how we talk and act that we become impervious to its actual impact upon those whom it effects.

    For that reason, I don't think we should ever be so nonchalant about casual racism's existence to the point where we just blow it off because, well, that's just the way it is. For persons of color who have to deal with it, it's a burden that requires them to constantly justify their humanity to the white majority.

    In that regard, I'm reminded of an observation once offered by the late author and Nobel laureate Toni Morrison: "In this country, 'American' means white. Everybody else has to hyphenate." As white people, we ought to be far more conscious of the truth in that statement than we are.



    of Tarantino's work, but I wonder if T's point might have been not that casual racism is the way it is, but rather that that is the way it was.

    Anyway, here is another Mexican-American's take on the line. :

    There was a moment in Once Upon a Time ... in Hollywood when Leonardo DiCaprio's character Rick Dalton is crying at the valet station at Musso & Frank. Brad Pitt's character Cliff Booth covers him up with sunglasses and says, "Don't cry in front of the Mexicans." And us, the Mexicans sitting in the sold-out movie theater Thursday night, cheered like we were watching our niece graduate from Stanford.  

    The moment underscored both the genius of the film's structure and one of it's running themes about the ways the film and TV industry were complicit in marginalizing Mexicans and subsequently all Latinx peoples.

    Quentin Tarantino's Once Upon a Time In Hollywood is a long twisting ode to westerns and the business of westerns. And a fable that seems to create three parallel worlds: the "real world" in which the story is set, the magical world of movies and T.V. that are interwoven throughout like plays within the play, and our world as audience members taking it all in. And throughout all this, there is that inescapable truth that the industry town that's nearly 50 percent Latin American has a long history of whitewashing, appropriating, and ignoring them.

    Lastly, as much as I respect the recently deceased Toni Morrison, that comment might be a little simplistic. For example, I consider myself both "white" and "Italian-American," and my dad told us he felt the same way as a youth growing up in Boston, although he also told us that back then some others did not view him the same way.


    That character Quentin (none / 0) (#122)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 05:45:27 PM EST
    played in Pulp didn't ring true to me at all. Even Aryan Brotherhood guys don't rattle off the n-word like that. And his character was supposed to be pals with Samuel L Jackson's? Didn't buy it.

    It was like T was asserting some sort of director-artist's prerogative to be edgy and shocking just for the hell of it.


    Pretty much any time Tarantino (none / 0) (#130)
    by McBain on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 07:26:01 PM EST
    appears in his own films, I don't buy it.  

    Just read the LAT and NYT reviews. (none / 0) (#124)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 05:56:12 PM EST
    I guess you agree pretty well with them.

    Wondering about how (none / 0) (#3)
    by ragebot on Wed Jul 31, 2019 at 12:40:54 PM EST
    LA REINA DEL SUR compares with Queen of the South.  I have never seen the former but do remember watching an episode of the latter.  Not sure I remember much about it other than it dragged a little and was not interesting enough to get me to watch another episode.

    Truth be told well before Sony against Universal I was time shifting; and today with the ease of digital recording and sharing I don't really watch much "live TV".

    Queen of the South (none / 0) (#4)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jul 31, 2019 at 01:35:45 PM EST
    is just an American remake of La Reina del Sur.

    It's very different than Reina del Sur (none / 0) (#11)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Aug 01, 2019 at 01:49:26 AM EST
    I didn't care for Queen of the South at all. In the first episode of the first season, it opened with Teresa taking a hit of coke. I turned it off. Teresa Mendoza does not use drugs other than she may smoke pot in a blue moon. She's a tequila lover.

    When Mexico copied Colombia's version of Rosario Tijeras, the script was the same, just different personalities and cultures. I liked the Colombian much better than the Mexican one. The Colombian version starred Maria Fernanda Yepes who is simply captivating in that role and has become my favorite   favorite female leadnow. It's on Netflix still, filmed in the barrios (called communes) of Medellin, and is just an amazing tale. It, like La Reina del Sur, is fiction. Both have good English subtitles, so there;s no reason to watch the English onw when the Mexican/Colombians one are so much better.


    Thanks for the reply (none / 0) (#12)
    by ragebot on Thu Aug 01, 2019 at 01:21:47 PM EST
    This was an answer to my question; and a well informed one.  May need to do some more time shifting.

    So that Equifax payoff... (none / 0) (#10)
    by desertswine on Thu Aug 01, 2019 at 12:27:12 AM EST
    turns out to be a classic "bait and switch" scam.

    Few if any of the 147 million Americans screwed by Equifax in its 2017 data breach will actually see the $125 checks that were touted in a settlement announced on July 22, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) warned Wednesday.

    "FTC Says `Overwhelming' Number of Equifax Claims Means Consumers Likely Won't Get $125," the Wall Street Journal's headline screamed.

    Just one more scam in America, there are so many.

    Epstein update (none / 0) (#13)
    by ragebot on Thu Aug 01, 2019 at 01:24:58 PM EST
    Claims surfacing that he was an FBI informant in order to help with the sweetheart deal he got.

    Whitey (none / 0) (#15)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Aug 02, 2019 at 06:34:17 AM EST

    How much did he (none / 0) (#16)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 02, 2019 at 01:30:41 PM EST
    'cooperate' in the Steven Hoffenberg investigation?

    trumpenfuhrer toady Ratcliffe (none / 0) (#17)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Aug 02, 2019 at 04:13:44 PM EST
    will not be the next DNI.

    Yes (none / 0) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 02, 2019 at 04:25:21 PM EST
    that was great news. They just need to promote the person who is the assistant there. Apparently she doesn't have any Russian problems and has already made it through security clearances.

    Ratcliffe's (none / 0) (#19)
    by KeysDan on Fri Aug 02, 2019 at 04:30:37 PM EST
    anti-terrorist credentials were fake. And, he was the Republican Congressman who questioned Mueller's integrity. Although, I must say that I enjoyed his five minute Trump audition during the Mueller hearings, especially the conspiracy ranting.

    Well, maybe a position for Barr's daughter or son-in- law (just shifting from the White House), but more likely, another job for Jared, or maybe, Ivanka---who probably has a new fall line of shoe phones.


    How many Ratts does it take (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 02, 2019 at 08:12:10 PM EST
    To jump off a Cliffe ?

    Just one as it turns out.

    I just wonder if, now we know pretty much his entire "resume" was BS , someone might consider if he should not be on the "Intelligence" Committee.


    This doesn't seem to be anything... (none / 0) (#20)
    by desertswine on Fri Aug 02, 2019 at 04:51:02 PM EST
    that Kushner can't add to his resume.

    So (none / 0) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 03, 2019 at 07:04:20 PM EST
    They stopped making VCRs.  Not sure when that happened.  Google would tell me if I cared that much but I decided I wanted to buy one, can't really say when I last had a working VCR, when I noticed something on HBO.

    The have a big CG open for the Saturday premier movie.  This has been a tradition for decades.  They premium, on cable, a new movie every Saturday night in prime time and they were one of the firsts to get a snappy "3D CG" open.  Sometime in the 80s.  They have become ever progressively more elaborate and flashy since then but in the newest version which is a long camera pull back in a crazy urban/rural Escher like world of people watching tv and in the last shot we have a family watching a tv on which the very first "3D CG" open they did back in the 80s is playing on a tv.

    I worked on that.  I even have it on a reel someplace.  One of the many VHS Graphics demo reels I made in the 80s.

    So I decided to buy a VCR.

    holy Krap.  6-700 bucks for VCRs.

    You can find cheaper ones.  The one I got was about 80 bucks.  

    Anyway, if you want a VCR don't wait.

    Future archeologists (none / 0) (#26)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 03, 2019 at 07:08:46 PM EST
    when excavating ruins of our cities, etc., will be able to date the era by objects such as VCRs and Eight Track tapes....They only existed for a short period of time.....

    El Paso shooting (none / 0) (#27)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 03, 2019 at 07:15:42 PM EST
    A white male Anglo from Dallas shoots and kills 20 in El Paso Walmart.

    El Paso is more than 80% Latino.  So, for an enterprising young MAGA, go West young man and you will find lots of Latinos in El Paso.

    When lone wolfs (5.00 / 5) (#28)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 03, 2019 at 07:19:04 PM EST
    kill in the U.S. claiming ISIS allegiance, we do not ignore that and say it was just a nut.  No, we say it was a terrorist, ISIS inspired shooting.

    The El Paso shooting is a MAGA inspired terrorist shooting.  Can anyone really have a problem with that characterization?


    Remember when they were railing (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 03, 2019 at 08:18:00 PM EST
    on endlessly about Obama supposedly not explicitly calling out Islamic terrorism?

    My wife's family in Corpus Christi, TX ... (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 02:22:19 PM EST
    ... has been dealing with anti-Hispanic bias from some local Anglos for decades. But Saturday's attack on shoppers in El Paso specifically targeted people of Hispanic descent, and the event has clearly shaken Latino communities across the country, particularly in south and west Texas.

    The El Paso tragedy has prompted my father- and mother-in-law to openly broach the idea of returning to Mexico even though they've lived in Corpus Christi since 1960 and further, have been U.S. citizens since 1987. For the first time, they've acknowledged to us the sharp escalation of abrasive rhetoric, attitudes and conduct which they've seen in many Anglos in south Texas since Trump first announced his candidacy in 2015.

    They're now resigned to the very real possibility that things will not improve and in all likelihood only get worse. I'm sorry, but the fact that two upstanding 80-year-old u.S. citizens of Mexican heritage are no longer feeling welcome in their own adopted country just really frosts me right now. I'm just embarrassed and ashamed to be a white man.

    That said, seeing them move back to Mexico -- which has its own obvious problems -- is out of the question. If my in-laws are that uncomfortable in south Texas, I'd rather have them move out here to Hawaii, where tolerance and acceptance of each other's ethnic and cultural differences are the rule rather than the exception, and are generally celebrated rather than ridiculed, insulted and targeted.

    This white-wing bullschitt is horrifying. It's disgraceful. It's unacceptable. And yes, it's Donald Trump's fault. Presidents have a moral obligation to set a respectful tone for the rest of the country. And in that regard, this phuquin' jackwagon has done practically everything contrary to that, short of personally hosting a KKK cross-burning in Lafayette Park.

    What makes Trump's conduct particularly egregious and infuriating is the fact that he refuses to take personal responsibility for anything he says and does. This morning, he gave a speech that blames this weekend's carnage on video games, among other things. And his minions are now out there on the huckster circuit that's become our D.C. media establishment, echoing his disingenuous sentiments.

    Gawdalmighty, but Trump really needs to go.


    Agreed (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 02:49:06 PM EST
    This not "just" the racism of the guy at the end of the bar; this is presidential racism.

    I grew up in El Paso (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 05:22:51 PM EST
    Went to the same elementary school as Beto.

    That this gunman drove from Dallas to kill Latinos shows how obsessed he was.  That is one long, long drive, over very flat, featureless ground.  It takes all day, without a lot in between.   No mountains until just on the outskirts of El Paso.

    Latinos were in Texas and New Mexico and California well before Anglos.  Some Latino families have been in New Mexico since the early 1600s--before Plymouth Rock and Jamestown....

    By now, probably a majority of kids enrolled in public school in Texas are Latinos....It was close to half just a few years ago.

    The cowboy culture aped by many Southern bigots is Mexican vaquero culture.   The "Western" saddles, the broad brimmed hats, lassos--Mexican.

    Your relatives are where they belong.  The shooters do not belong--and hopefully will be driven out soon.


    I once drove from Memphis to L.A. ... (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 05:49:22 PM EST
    ... with a friend. The ride between Dallas and El Paso has to be one of the dreariest in the country. The trippiest part was seeing the tall buildings of Midland's skyline suddenly arise on the prairie horizon. Talk about appearing out of nowhere!

    I was last in Corpus Christi a few years ago for a family wedding. My wife will go occasionally but while she loves her family, she no longer feels any real affinity for the city. She has nine siblings, and only the eldest two still live there. Of the seven others, two are now in Houston, two are in Phoenix, and there's one each in Ogden UT, Las Vegas and San Diego.

    My in-laws much rather prefer to visit us in Hawaii, which they do for a couple weeks annually. And they make the rounds to all the other locales, as well. But like me, they prefer to fly rather than drive. In fact, they're going to be out here in late September.



    Corpus Christi (none / 0) (#131)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 07:37:26 PM EST
    When I was growing up in El Paso as a kid, I dreamed of living in Corpus Christi....It was about being on the ocean, etc.....

    I really thought I would end up there....But only drove through Galveston outskirts once on the way to Houston from New Orleans....

    Totally forgot until your post that Corpus Christi was where I wanted to go...


    There is blood on trumpenfuhrer's hands. (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Aug 03, 2019 at 08:02:12 PM EST
    I posted on July 21 here that someone, somewhere was going to end up dead over his "go back where you came from" BS. There 20 dead someones in El Paso.

    This all leads back to this ahole and this administration.

    Nothing will come of it though. Nothing happened after Las Vegas. Nothing changed. And if that shooting did not bring about change, I am convinced nothing will.


    There's blood on Trump (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 03, 2019 at 08:10:11 PM EST
    but also on a lot of other people.

    Check out conservative talk radio sometime. They broadcast, Radio Rwanda style, all the things Trump is afraid to say (out loud). Stuff that would gag a maggot, thought not a Magat.


    If 20 massacred first-graders ... (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 04:02:01 AM EST
    ... at Sandy Hook Elementary wasn't enough to move Republican hearts, then 20 dead Mexicans at Walmart sure aren't. The NRA first needs to be destroyed -- and I mean DESTROYED -- before common-sense firearms legislation can be enacted. Fortunately, the NRA may accomplish that task for us.

    But "guns don't kill people" (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Yman on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 11:22:03 AM EST
    Easy access to guns just makes it very simple for people to rapidly kill or mame large numbers of people.  Then Joe Trumper we can continue to pretend that they're not a problem and that white nationalism also isn't a serious threat.

    Any bets on how long we have to wait for Trump to use the word "terrorist" when describing these white radicals?


    Yeah, he traveled hundreds (none / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 03, 2019 at 08:05:02 PM EST
    of miles to, among other things, forestall "The Great Replacement"(of whites by Hispanics) and keep Texas from turning Democratic - according to his manifesto.

    Interestingly, popular wingnut radio jackdaw Michael Savage published the shooter's entire manifesto online without any commentary. Which is troubling due to the fact that minus the explicit call to violence, it could be a rough outline of one of Savage's very own radio rants.

    Savage's way of issuing a call to arms?


    Invasion rhetoric... (5.00 / 5) (#34)
    by desertswine on Sat Aug 03, 2019 at 10:31:15 PM EST
    "We cannot allow all of these people to invade our country." - Don the Con Trump

    The killer wrote that his actions were a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas.

    Trump is despicable.


    We used to have a guy (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 12:44:29 PM EST
    posting here who liked to talk about the threat posed to the U.S by "southern european culture".

    A poster who also happened to be another big 2nd Amendment hero.

    These thought complexes seem to lodge themselves in some people's brains like a virus. Talk about alien invasions..


    Yeah, I remember him. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 04:19:49 AM EST
    He lived in his own customized white-wing Fox fantasy bubble. He thought that doctored photo of President Obama as a witch doctor with a bone in his nose was hilarious, and it was rather sad seeing him struggle to understand why nobody else here did. I hope the times never pass me by like that.

    The Idiot Trump... (none / 0) (#39)
    by desertswine on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 02:59:11 PM EST
    is in this place:

    Consideration is being given to declaring ANTIFA, the gutless Radical Left Wack Jobs who go around hitting (only non-fighters) people over the heads with baseball bats, a major Organization of Terror (along with MS-13 & others). Would make it easier for police to do their job!
    12:55 PM - 27 Jul 2019

    Beyond words.  In my opinion, what's left of the Republican Party should be declared a terrorist group.


    Absurd and infuriating. (none / 0) (#40)
    by Dadler on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 04:01:13 PM EST
    Only you have to slandering an actual thing or person, and Antifa is neither, it's a phucking idea. It's a call to action. I worked with those kids during Occupy, after they'd gotten the sh*t beaten out of them by police. They had bruises and welts on them, dirty clothes, but they were sweet and nice and hard-working, even though for about the first hour they all assumed I was an undercover cop, with my Cal hoodie and Prius.

    Police dress up like Antifa all the time to gin up violence and blame it on them, as anyone can wear black and cover their face and do anything and say they are Antifa. And the police identify with the right wing, there is zero identification with anything perceived to be on the left. Antifa kids do one thing, show up when Nazis do. Glad someone has the nads to.


    I remember that guy (none / 0) (#66)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 11:01:23 AM EST
    Latin culture was inherently inferior, etc.

    A caricature of a bigoted right winger.


    I Never Have Agreed with Bill Maher More (none / 0) (#35)
    by RickyJim on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 11:20:13 AM EST
    "Now, do I want Biden to be president? Not really. But Biden is the only Democrat who beats Trump in Ohio," he said. "He's like non-dairy creamer. Nobody loves it, but in a jam it gets the job done. I can't figure people out, but they just like Joe. Maybe it's the familiarity. He's like a McDonald's when you're in Europe."

    Ohio.. (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 02:16:43 PM EST
    one of the beating hearts of the opioid crisis.

    Maybe rather than running a familiar brand name the folks can dimmly recognize through the mist, we run someone who inspires people and gives them hope.

    Biden is about as inspiring as a cold rectal thermometer. And probably too nice and reticent to compete with the big, loud, terminally FOS guy.


    As Maher Points Out, (none / 0) (#50)
    by RickyJim on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 07:22:03 PM EST
    if voters are faced with a choice between Trump and left wing extremism, they (gasp) might choose Trump.  What is the plan to make things like free healthcare for illegal immigrants and reparations for descendants of slaves not to scare away too many from voting for a more "progressive" candidate?

    "free healthcare for illegal immigrants" (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Peter G on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 09:02:03 PM EST
    means, of course, "universal healthcare," either by single payer (government run) or by "Medicare for All" (government paid to private medical providers, supplemented - if it is designed like today's Medicare - by private insurance) where no one in the U.S. who needs medical services is excluded from coverage by virtue of immigration status or any other irrelevant criterion. (As non-citizens are not excluded under such systems in other countries.) Of course, when it's described as "free healthcare for illegal immigrants" it is made (wrongly, and often deliberately) to sound like some special benefit for the undocumented, above and beyond what would be available to others. Which is untrue.

    That Explanation Satisfies Me (none / 0) (#57)
    by RickyJim on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 09:04:02 AM EST
    But is there anyone among the progressive candidates who can convince the voters, who put Trump in office, to switch?

    It doesn't take 70 minutes to explain (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Peter G on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 09:56:26 AM EST
    but it may take more than one to three minutes, even by a skilled teacher, like E. Warren. Meaning that the TV debate format was not designed to allow this (or any other important) issue to be addressed in response to a question that contained a built-in fallacy, as so many of the questions did. Nevertheless, I was frustrated at the inability to the candidates to recognize the errors in the questions and give coherent, informative answers anyway.

    Another key thing in Peter's explanation ... (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 09:03:29 PM EST
    ... is that the key word in the term "universal healthcare" is "universal." That is, for it to be truly effective, you have to cover everybody in this country regardless of their status and station in life. When you start exempting groups of people you don't like for whatever your reasons, you undermine the very premise of public health.

    All you need as an example is the anti-vaccine crowd and the potential health crisis they facilitated with their nonsense. When people are allowed to opt out or are excluded from our vaccination policies, society become vulnerable to outbreaks of serious but otherwise preventable diseases such as measles and chicken pox.

    There is also a distinct fiscal benefit to us in having a physically healthy society. It's far cheaper for government to assist people in maintaining good health through a proactive practice of preventative medicine with regular checkups, etc., than it is to help them recover their health retroactively once they've been struck down by serious illness due to neglect.



    "Left-wing extremism"? (none / 0) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 04:31:14 AM EST
    That's just a mindlessly empty slogan. Wanting people to have health care as a right is not extreme. Crafting legislation and going to court to take health care coverage away from 30-40 million Americans is not just extreme, it's wickedly so.

    Don't rely on Bill Maher for your political advice (none / 0) (#79)
    by vicndabx on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 03:05:19 PM EST
    Instead, do your own advocacy with your own family and friends.

    Bill Maher, a man who talks $hit for a living, can't handle people talking $hit about him on a website.  I say this as a regular viewer of his show.  He seems a little scared IMO, and the reality is, his life will barely change under most things this admin has done.

    The only candidate that proposed actual reparations is Marianne Williamson.  EVERYONE else is talking about studying it, that's it.  Congress funding a study.  Tell your fellow Americans not to panic.


    I heard this before... (none / 0) (#46)
    by NoSides on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 06:04:43 PM EST
    I think just the opposite.

    For the Democrats to turn their backs on the progressive wing of the party - on those who inspire hope - and give us Biden as a candidate is a recipe for defeat.

    Personally, I will never forget the treatment he gave Anita Hill and his refusing to call corroborating witnesses as to Thomas's behavior.

    His questions to her were voyeuristic and creepy: eg: "Can you tell the committee what was the most embarrassing of all the incidences that you have alleged?"  

    This is one of those moments in time.
    We can't settle for a person like Biden.


    I'm sure he's a decent guy (none / 0) (#47)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 06:13:37 PM EST
    but this no time for decency, as a fella once said.

    I don't know if it's as much ... (none / 0) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 09:27:24 PM EST
    ... "a recipe for defeat," given the extent of Trump's unpopularity. I am reasonably confident that Joe Biden would not only beat Trump in the 2020 general election, but would likely do so quite handily.

    However, I will readily concede that Biden's election would also probably preclude us from learning necessary and valuable lessons from this current miserable debacle. Because first and foremost, Biden is a creature of the current and decrepit political establishment who would, if elected, maintain the same self-serving insider culture in D.C. that eventually fostered the rise of right-wing populism in the first place.

    And that, of course, would thus leave us vulnerable to the entreaties of yet another right-wing ideologue, who probably won't be repulsively coarse and buffoonish like Trump, but will instead sound suave, seductive, utterly sophisticated and entirely reasonable.



    Moscow Mitch trips up. (none / 0) (#42)
    by KeysDan on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 05:00:02 PM EST
    Senate Majority Leader, Mitch McConnell fractured his should after tripping over patio furniture while at his Louisville, KY home.  

    Early reports that the 77-year old senator was rushed to Moscow General are false.  He is resting at his home.

    Deep state (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 05:15:44 PM EST
    Patio furniture

    I'm (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by FlJoe on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 05:39:17 PM EST
    sending my thoughts and prayers......to the lawn chairs.

    ROTFL (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 06:43:49 PM EST
    Another reminder about Biden's age too.

    Coincidental all this happened right after his anger at being nicknamed Moscow Mitch.


    I wonder if he actually.. (none / 0) (#48)
    by desertswine on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 06:38:31 PM EST
    broke his shoulder, or if he's just hiding.

    Patio furniture? (none / 0) (#90)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 05:08:58 PM EST
    Maybe Trump slapped him too hard on his back laughing at his new campaign masterpiece: a photo with mock tombstones with names on them, including Merrick Garland, Socialism, and his opponent, Amy McGrath.  

    His broken shoulder matches the state of his morals.


    And no no (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 05:43:47 PM EST
    Mitch supporters, don't get any ideas about shooting any of these people.

    He doesn't mean it that way. It's not like he put them in crosshairs


    Of course not. No violence, (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by KeysDan on Tue Aug 06, 2019 at 09:16:13 AM EST
    No misogyny. That's the Russian way, after all.

    Teen boys sporting "Team Mitch" T-shirts pose choking and groping a cardboard cutout of AOC. Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez called out Moscow Mitch, and the Mitch Campaign responded:  "..the teens are not campaign employees."  and, accused liberals and news media of looking "for every possible way to demonize, stereotype, and publicly castigate every young person who dares to get involved with Republican politics."

    Not at all what was said or done, but it does sound like a good idea.


    Don't tell me (none / 0) (#117)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 01:31:04 PM EST
    the Covingtin kids again?

    Well, at least (none / 0) (#56)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 07:35:44 AM EST
    He didn't get beaten up by a neighbor, the way his fellow Kentucky Senator Rand Paul did.

    The media (none / 0) (#45)
    by NoSides on Sun Aug 04, 2019 at 05:51:55 PM EST
    are already describing the shooting in El Paso as a "hate crime".

    In other words, they are shifting the focus of the story to the motivation of the shooter - rather than focusing on the easy assess to weaponry in this country, and the lack of will on the part of the government to do anything about it.

    Shorter Trump (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 09:07:08 AM EST
    God god god
    God god video games
    God god god god
    God god capital punishment

    Taking bet on the over under (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 09:09:54 AM EST
    In hours

    Till he backpedals on the white supremacy remark.

    I say by noon.


    White supremacy? (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by vml68 on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 10:06:20 AM EST
    Another idiot (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 02:21:31 PM EST
    Made famous by their utter stupidity.

    Even local republicans were condemning and running from this as fast as they could

    Registered Drag Queen Advocate


    I'll (none / 0) (#60)
    by FlJoe on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 09:13:03 AM EST
    give 15  minutes until some wag say's that this is the moment tRump became president.

    Obviously (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 09:25:10 AM EST
    You are not watching MSNBC

    You underestimated


    Yes, Usually, ... (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 05:58:46 PM EST
    ... you have to wait for Brian Williams to come on the air before that's said. I swear, if he tells us one more time that Republicans were the real heroes of Watergate, I'm going to fly back to New York just to slap him hard upside the head on the air and yell, "What's the f--- is wrong with you?" I'm pretty confident that no jury would convict me for it.



    Seriously tho (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 09:30:46 AM EST
    For him to do that he realized this was spiraling out of control.

    It feels different.  Not in a "legislation" way.  Pfffft

    But in that it's becoming more widely seen and stated he is causing this.  But this hostage video is not what he wants to say.   So it's not what he will say.  He will lose the teleprompter and say what he thinks.

    Especially once he gets some of the StormFront reaction to his betrayal


    One thing already (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 09:33:04 AM EST
    8 Chan has been shut down.

    What will he say to his fans on 8 Chan about the suppression of their free speech?


    Just heard this is (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 02:43:25 PM EST
    Sort of cascading now.  StormFront and others are now down and will probably stay down until they go, this guy said who follows this stuff for a living, to shady providers like Eastern Europe.   This means they will be blocked by a lot of service providers because of the spam and malware those guys are famous for.

    This, as Joe says, is a big f'ing deal.  It really is.  Not least because of the debate it will start that FOX will not be able to stay out of because they share the same space on the Venn diagram.

    So Trump will also almost certainly have something to say about this.

    I look forward to hearing it.


    Like this (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 07:23:59 PM EST
    As several comments quoted in the cited article (none / 0) (#132)
    by Peter G on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 08:58:51 PM EST
    state and explain, this idiotic idea is a non-starter under the First Amendment.

    Liberal cesspools of venom (none / 0) (#133)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 09:10:36 PM EST
    whose language is that?

    Do they have apocalyptic pentacostal preachers working in the Whitehouse now?

    Also, does this mean Trump is interested in reinstating the Fairness Doctrine? Who would've thought?


    My guess (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 09:53:32 PM EST
    Would be Miller.

    He has never gotten over (none / 0) (#135)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 09:55:05 PM EST
    What social media did to him over the spray on hair.

    That was the first one (none / 0) (#136)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 10:29:28 PM EST
    that came to mind to me, as well.

    Cesspool of venom (none / 0) (#137)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 10:31:51 PM EST
    sounds like another one of those death metal bands.

    Was it a hostage (none / 0) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 11:36:27 AM EST
    video like the one apparently someone made him do after Charlottesville?

    I did (none / 0) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 11:35:22 AM EST
    not watch but one of his fans, a friend of a friend, was having a meltdown on Facebook acting like Trump supported red flag laws.

    So sad, (none / 0) (#69)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 01:40:17 PM EST
    About what happened in TOLEDO.

    That's a good bet. (none / 0) (#80)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 03:08:25 PM EST
    The media fell all over themselves on Saturday afternoon to report that Trump condemned the El Paso shooting and white nationalism in his Twitter feed, but when you clicked on the hyperlinks to his specific tweets (two of them), they had already been deleted.

    Trump, from the White House: (none / 0) (#70)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 01:45:08 PM EST
    "may God bless the memory of those who perished in Toledo, may God protect those....from Texas to Ohio.."   Toledo???

    This should be Biden protection insurance if he mixes up a call number.

     Maybe it is the raking over of his comments such as at his May 9, 2019 MAGA rally at Panama City Beach, Florida, when bemoaning legal protections afforded migrants and espousing the need for a border wall, Trump brought up, and then ruled out, using deadly force, ...some other countries do, we can't. "how do you stop these people,"  "You can't"

    Someone in the crowd yelled "shoot them."

    Trump chuckled, smiled and shook his head.  The crowd cheered and laughed. Trump then said:  "that's only in the Panhandle you can get away with that stuff." "only in the Panhandle"  he repeated.

    With God being said about 20 times (5.00 / 4) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 02:23:27 PM EST
    That should be known as The Holy Toledo speech.

    Biden already (none / 0) (#78)
    by CST on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 03:00:03 PM EST
    Referred to the shootings in Houston and Michigan this weekend.

    Reason number 6397 he should not be the nominee.


    Agreed. (none / 0) (#82)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 03:28:33 PM EST
    Did you hear Biden's remarks about millennials at the AFSCME candidate forum this past week? I swear, the guy is tone deaf and behind the times by about a quarter-century. His remarks were so out of touch and insulting that they were cringe-worthy.

    Millennials didn't create our country's present predicament and mess. Their parents, grandparents and great-grandparents did. Young people deserve hope, not our scorn and ridicule. I mean, geez, if Joe Biden is the best that we as Democratic elders have to offer millennials, then we shouldn't feign surprise when the kids tell us to pi$$ off because our "best" really blows chunks.

    The more I listen to Sen. Warren, the more I like her.


    Lordy (none / 0) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 03:43:56 PM EST
    Biden and cringe worthy have become synonymous.

    As the mother of a millennial I definitely have some issues with them but blaming them for anything when in reality they have had zero political power in this country? I mean that is just stupid.


    Well, Houston is (none / 0) (#87)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 04:32:29 PM EST
    in Texas after all, and Michigan is not all that far from Toledo...ur  Dayton.

    Shorter (none / 0) (#81)
    by FlJoe on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 03:09:23 PM EST
    NYT "if the good Nazis would only turn in the bad Nazis, everything would be copacetic.
    Those who sympathize with the white nationalist ideology but who deplore the violence should work closely with law enforcement to see that fellow travelers who may be prone to violence do not have access to firearms like semiautomatic assault-style weapons that are massively destructive.

    Yes, the enlightened (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 04:11:39 PM EST
    wing of white supremacy must responsibly control the radical wing, so as not to jeopardize the white supremacy movement.   You need to keep your sheets clean and white or they all will look dirty.

    The New York Times is ... (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 07:11:49 PM EST
    ... the equivalent of Italy's military in the wake of its badly botched invasion of Greece in the fall of 1940, in which the Italians were first repelled and then routed by a country one-tenth its size, prompting Mussolini to lament: "The human material I have to work with is useless."

    Past reputation and legacy appear to be the only things going for the Gray Lady nowadays. The quality of the NYT's political reporting and opining often ranges from mediocre to atrocious. It's like they've learned nothing from their experiences over the last quarter-century with Whitewater, the Iraq War and the Clinton Benghazi-email kerfuffle, except perhaps how to double down on their own egos.



    The "editorial" being lampooned (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 03:39:03 PM EST
    Is just so depressing and sad.  This is the title

    We Have a White Nationalist Terrorist Problem
    Mass shootings like the one in El Paso should be condemned by America's leaders as terrorism.

    God we are so lucky to have a media led by the paper of record to tell us such radical things.  Boy, I never thought of that.  Did you?

    Notify the Pulitzer committee


    Why? (none / 0) (#126)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 06:02:21 PM EST
    Do you want a Pulitzer Prize? I'm sure that can be arranged. In Trump's America, everybody has their price. Oh, wait -- that's "Animal Kingdom." I'm so confused.

    This (none / 0) (#86)
    by FlJoe on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 04:15:53 PM EST
    is really disturbing
    "Before he killed nine people in a mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio, early Sunday, Connor Betts was deeply involved in the misogynistic, male-dominated `goregrind' or `pornogrind' hardcore music scene. It has a regional following in the Midwest and is known for sexually violent, death-obsessed lyrics and dehumanizing imagery depicting women," Vice News reported Monday.
    "Over the past year, the 24-year-old shooter occasionally performed live vocals in the band Menstrual Munchies, which released albums titled `6 Ways of Female Butchery' and `Preeteen Daughter Pu$$y Slaughter,' with cover art showing the rape and massacre of female bodies. He also performed with a group called Putrid Liquid," Vice noted.

    Has there been any (none / 0) (#88)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 04:36:21 PM EST
    official information on Betts deliberately seeking out his sister and her boyfriend?  

    Jeezus. I read that he was suspended in (none / 0) (#89)
    by vml68 on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 05:06:17 PM EST
    High school for having a "hit list" and a "rape list". I thought that was bad. I really could have lived without knowing about the existence  of "goregrind" and "p0rn0grind".

    How was he ever allowed to buy a weapon?


    Brett Kavanaugh (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 05:10:23 PM EST
    without the connections.

    So, basically it's (none / 0) (#92)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 05:10:46 PM EST
    sadistic violence and hatred p*rn in a musical setting.

    Who are these people?


    I am very reluctant to draw conclusions (none / 0) (#96)
    by Peter G on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 08:05:39 PM EST
    about people's real world actions, past or intended, from their musical performances. I would not want Jamaican authorities issuing a warrant for Bob Marley because he admitted in a song that he shot the sheriff (albeit not the deputy), or California authorities arresting Johnny Cash for that guy he admittedly shot in Reno, just to watch him die.

    I might get concerned (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 08:40:42 PM EST
    about what was going on in his psyche, if every one of Marley's songs was about shooting, stabbing, or methodically disembowling someone and selling the hide to Ilsa Koch.

    And Jimi Hendrix could've been held ... (none / 0) (#128)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 06:24:38 PM EST
    ... as a material witness, since he asked his friend Joe where he was going with that gun in his hand, and Joe admitted that he was going to go shoot his old lady, after he caught her messing around with another man.

    And let's not forget Axl Rose of Guns'n'Roses, who confessed that he used to love his woman but had to kill her and put her six feet under, but even then he can still hear her complain.



    ... we all knew in high school, who:
    • Couldn't get a date with girls;
    • Tended to be academic underachievers;
    • Were the last guys picked in P.E. class when it was time to choose teams;
    • Had a standoffish-to-vicious streak a mile wide that repelled most all attempts by their peers to establish some sort of rapport or bond; and
    • Were generally mocked by us and considered social zeroes as a result.

    Further, I'd offer odds of better than even that their home life during childhood was probably less than optimal, and many were subject to neglect and / or abuse. Eventually, they became full of rage and learned to blame others for their issues and shortcomings, thanks in no small part to the parental figures in their lives who repeatedly ignored them and / or let them down. Many learn to really hate on women in particular; their misogyny is often palpable.

    Young men like these are vulnerable to the extremist appeals of far-right groups like Proud Boys, and disingenuous charlatans like Trump and David Duke. And now, thanks to the wonders of the internet, they're managing to find one another on 8chan or wherever and not surprisingly, more than a few have also developed firearms fetishes and are armed themselves to the teeth. And so of course, it's all our fault that they now have to avenge themselves on our society.



    Another thing to consider (none / 0) (#101)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 05, 2019 at 09:32:02 PM EST
    in the nineties in the U.S, there was a noticable movement away from providing long-term therapy for some of these troubled kids and in place of that, in a lot of instances, just relying on medicating the hell out of them. At a rate four times higher than they do to kids in Western Europe.

    There's times when I wonder if that phenomenon has played a role in the uptick of the incidents of murderous rage against everybody and anything on the part of some young adults.

    I suspect it has, though it'd be ne'er to impossible to prove.


    Ouch (none / 0) (#106)
    by MKS on Tue Aug 06, 2019 at 02:14:24 PM EST
    Can't get a date in High School; social zeroes...

    That describes a lot of us in High School....

    The vast majority of social zeroes do not kill....

    It is about the guns and racism....  


    I doubt you were a social zero. (none / 0) (#127)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 06:15:38 PM EST
    Like many teenage boys, you were probably just awkward and weren't wise in the ways of the opposite sex. For those of us who acted like we were, well, we really weren't, any more than you. We were probably just little bit better at faking it, that's all.



    Hey (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 04:53:26 PM EST
    Joaquin Castro (the candidate's twin) (none / 0) (#118)
    by Jack E Lope on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 03:02:40 PM EST
    Appears to be trying to call the Republicans' bluff about whether words can incite violence:
    The 44 names Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-Tex.) tweeted late Monday have at least two things in common: They're all constituents in his district, and they all donated the maximum amount to President Trump's campaign this year.

    The congressman and brother of presidential hopeful Julián Castro said the people listed -- including retirees, business owners and other individuals whose names are public record -- were "fueling a campaign of hate."

    I see conservatives (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 07, 2019 at 04:24:27 PM EST
    freaking out about this and I'm like this is public information. If Trump is so great why is it shameful to donate to him?

    WSJ (none / 0) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 08, 2019 at 03:43:46 PM EST
    According to a report from the Wall Street Journal, major Wall Street financial institutions have handed a wealth of information on Russians linked to Donald Trump and members of his family to congressional committees.

    The report states, there are "thousands of pages of documents related to Russians who may have had dealings with Mr. Trump, his family or his business," according to sources

    "Some banks are also giving documents related to Mr. Trump's business, the Trump Organization, to New York state investigators," the report continues.

    Among the institutions turning over documents, are Bank of America Corp. , Citigroup Inc., Deutsche Bank AG , JPMorgan Chase & Co., Morgan Stanley and Wells Fargo & Co.

    The Journal adds, "The investigators are working on a joint probe into potential foreign influence on Mr. Trump and his family by the House Financial Services Committee and the House Intelligence Committee. More information will likely be handed over in coming weeks as the banks continue to respond to subpoenas sent in April."

    You can read more here, (subscription required).

    Rachel and Lawerence (none / 0) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 08, 2019 at 09:20:37 PM EST
    Both did segments on this.  It really sounds like a pretty big deal.  The big deal being in spite of all Trumps lawsuits and appeals they are already getting actual documents.

    I think (none / 0) (#147)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 04:41:05 AM EST
    it was Nancy that hired forensic accountants and prosecutors who specialize in money laundering in preparation for this.

    Hope this is true (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 08, 2019 at 06:42:37 PM EST
    I understand (none / 0) (#141)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 08, 2019 at 08:07:44 PM EST
    from legal analysts that McCabe and Strok have very strong cases. Trump might be better off settling these cases before they go to discovery. It's not gonna be his money anyway and we all know how he loves to waste tax payer money.

    McCabe was screwed out of his pension (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 08, 2019 at 08:24:33 PM EST
    Less than 24 before he could collect it.  IMO compensating him for that would not be a waste.

    The waste (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by CST on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 09:20:58 AM EST
    Would be fighting it in court.

    Yeah, (none / 0) (#148)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 04:45:18 AM EST
    didn't mean it like it sounded. McCabe was due his retirement. Just meant that Trump has no problem flinging tax payer money around to farmers and his voters.

    Trump will not settle (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 08, 2019 at 09:05:52 PM EST
    Not in this universe

    Well (none / 0) (#149)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 04:46:34 AM EST
    settling for sure would blow up the narratives that wingnut welfare has been shopping for a few years now.

    I am just (none / 0) (#151)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 10:11:44 AM EST
    completely sick. Trump revels in people suffering, families being torn apart and Hispanics in MS going into foster care? Yeah, that's great that Hispanic children are going to be put into a system full of white supremacists.

    I really think people need to start (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 10:31:51 AM EST
    Pressuring advertisers to stop buying ads on cable news unless they stop carrying Trumps driveway rants in full live.

    I just watched one.  Just to see if I could make it all the way thru.  He babbled and blathered on and on.  Repeating the same nonsensical lies over and over and over and over.  This time for more than a half hour.  And the "White House press" was there hanging on every word like he was some f'ing biblical prophet.  It was completely insane

    THEN we cut to the talking heads and the very first sentence was "he said he was open to background checks over a dozen times.  Let's listen to what he said"



    It's insane.  They need to be forced to stop covering this shi+


    The world reacts (none / 0) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 11:35:09 AM EST
    Armando (none / 0) (#154)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 12:26:05 PM EST
    has pointed out over and over on twitter that the press is just not up to handling Trump. They keep treating him as he was "normal" and he is not. They seem incapalbe of understanding what is going on here or choose to stick their head in the sand. One or the other.

    I just went to Fubo TV streaming. So I no longer have cable. I think I can do my part by never watching the press conferences or anything having to do with Trump.

    AT&T which is a Trumper supporting organization is no longer getting any of my money.

    But I am with you. Trump is supporting absolutely vile white supremacy and I will figure out a way to not support any organization that allows his ideology unquestioning propaganda opportunities.


    Actually (none / 0) (#155)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 12:42:26 PM EST
    I think it's worse than that.  I think they fully understand.  They do it for ratings.  Which is way worse.  If they were just stupid and naive it would be forgivable

    Yes, they know. (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by KeysDan on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 04:10:21 PM EST
    The NYTimes headline today was "Trump is studying background checks".  Does anyone, the least of which is the press who covers him, believe Trump studies anything?  And, they know that all this "studying" is just "let's pretend", until the heat is off. But, we hear, today is the day Trump is president and other nauseous pronouncements.

    Maggie Haberman (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 04:12:31 PM EST

    I swear I have not checked.


    You didn't (none / 0) (#160)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 05:50:31 PM EST
    miss anything by not checking but I don't think this particular disaster was Haberman's.

    Actually (none / 0) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 06:01:22 PM EST
    It was.  I checked.  With 2 others.

    Well, (none / 0) (#156)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 09, 2019 at 04:08:59 PM EST
    they have been playing footsie with white supremacists for decades. So yeah, I can see the ratings thing and I agree that it is even worse.