Democrats Debate: Night Two Live Thread

Night One of the Democrats' first debate drew in 15.3 million viewers on NBC, MSBNC and Telemundo. Another 9 million watched on the internet.

What will tonight bring? I don't have high expectations, but I'm hoping former Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper makes a positive impression. These are the candidates debating tonight.

I don't think either Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders should be President. They are just too old and Joe Biden has a horrible record on criminal justice. He also talks too much about himself and his family. Too bad there's no live band for the debate. I'd have them play the first few lines of "You're So Vain" every time someone asks Biden or Bernie a question.

Please share your thoughts as you watch or afterwards. I'll update later with my impressions. [More...]

Update: What a depressing debate, there was not a star or original idea among them.

Biden is such a flip-flopper. On immigration, they were all asked who agreed that undocumented presence should be a civil violation rather than a crime. Biden raised his hand with the others as if he were agreeing that undocumented presence should not be a crime -- although he went back and forth between raising his hand and pointing with his index finger as if he had a question. When the moderator from Telemundo called him out on his response, he refused to give a direct answer.

The moderator asked him very specifically, first whether undocumented presence, in the absence of any other crime, should be a civil or criminal violation. He answered that commission of a serious crime should warrant deportation. But the question excluded people who had committed other crimes. When that was pointed out to him, he waffled further and said unlawful presence "should not be the focus" of deportation -- in other words, he refused to endorse a policy that undocumented presence should be only a civil violation or that undocumented persons who have not committed a crime should not face deporation. (What does that even mean, that they "should not be the focus of" deportation. That it's okay if they are incidentally deported?)

I thought Sen. Michael Bennet from Colorado did very well. (Unfortuately, one hour in, Hickenlooper has all but disappeared. Maybe he is on the verge of dropping out of the race and the moderators know it. The camera has not even shown his face in ages. Next song in my Democrats Debate playlist: Disappeared for Hickenlooper and Andrew Yang).

The same people seem to be getting the questions tonight -- it seems much less balanced than last night. How did Marianne Williamson, the motivational speaker, and Andrew Yang, the wealthy tech guy, even make the cut?

Kamala Harris showed her true colors: A prosecutor and a voice for crime victims rather than a voice for all of us. She is a good orator, but most successful trial lawyers are. She did nothing tonight to change my impression of her as a career prosecutor. She really does not have the credentials to govern a nation. Her closing statement: "She will be a prosecutor." Cased Closed. She is definitely not the one.

Now to Climate Change. The most important issue ever to the moderators. And finally, the moderators remember John Hickenlooper is there and asked him a question.

Bernie did well, as usual, pontificating about what is wrong. He's not so good with solutions. He's just going to be Superman, battling and conquering Wall St, the insurance companies, the military industrial complex and every other power that be on day One.

Mariane Williamson? Again, why is this motivational speaker on the stage? Couldn't she just write another book? Or perform a karaoeke of "All You Need is Love"?

Does Joe Biden have a hearing problem or a comprehension problem? It seems like one or the other and I think both are age-related. The moderators ask all the candidates if they only get one shot to effect change during their presidency, what topic ould it be on?

Biden answers "Beating Donald Trump." Hello? If Biden is serving his term as president, by definition, Trump would already have been defeated. This is the second time he either intentionally or unintentionally missed the question (the first being when the Telemundo anchor asked him whether unlawful presence should be a crime or a civil violation, assuming the person had committed no other offense, and Biden answered if the undocumented person had committed a serious crime, he should be deported.

The topic is now gun control. Memo to Kamala Harris: you are no different than Donald Trump when you say if Congress doesn't act on gun control, you will take executive action to bypass Congrass and make it a crime to export guns to the U.S. Not your job. Bye-Bye.

Biden gets worse and worse every time he tries to defend his indefensible record. "I'm the guy who got the Brady bill passed. I got the assault weapons ban passed" (that was later repealed). He wants guns to have biometric capabilities to identify who pulled the trigger. Seriously? He doesn't see a privacy issue with that? All his protestations aside, civil liberties have never been his strong suit,

All in all, there was a lot of pontificating tonight and very few fresh ideas or concrete solutions. There were too many one-trick ponies: Gillebrand on women's rights (Memo to Gillebrand: Unless you demonstrate some knowledge and interest in other issues, you will have lost 50% of the voters. Men are Americans too.) Sanders on the bullies of Wall St and private insurance companies, promotor in chief of Medicare for All. And of course the congressman who changes diapers and lives and breathes gun control.

Who failed to register to me? Pete Buttigieg ( a likeable guy, but certainly in over his head) and Andrew Yang (he seems smarter than Marianne Williamson but still, why is he even there? Because he can afford to be? Can we have the second chorus now of "You're so Vain"?)

Biden ends with: May G-d protect our troops. Hello? We are not at war. Where did that come from? There was no discussion of war all night. Come to think of it, how strange that there were no questions about ISIS, as if it no longer exists just because it no longer controls any physical territory.

I'll be suprised if Biden doesn't fall to the back of the pack after tonight. He is definitely showing his age and inability to adapt to new ideas and change.

Joe Biden's chances of defeating Donald Trump: Less than Zero.

< Democratic Debate: Live Thread | Kamala Harris' Non-Progressive Past >
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    Hickenlooper's needs to face facts... (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 12:24:59 AM EST
    drop out of the Presidential race and run against Cory "Conman" Gardner for the US Senate seat.

    I don't care if doesn't like the job description because he's an "executive" and wants that kind of control - Cory needs to go and he is the most vulnerable Republican out there.

    Do what is right for Colorado, John!!!

    My take, Second Debate. (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 01:53:04 PM EST
    Foundational Considerations: To a question about the greatest threat to the country, it is clear to me that it is a tie between Trump and the Republican Party. If Trump's behavior at Finland was shockingly unpatriotic, his performance at the G-20 in Japan shows new and openly brazen subversion. A second term with continued Republican toadying, is a clear and imminent danger to our democracy.  Hence, consideration of candidates needs to take into prime account, the ability to win--given the tricky and deceit likely to abound.

    The most viable candidates over the two debates were Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, Elizabeth Warren, and Julian Castro.

    Harris demonstrated passion and precision in her answers. Her exchange with Biden provided convincing evidence that she has the ability to challenge the record of the apparent front-runner with determination and courage, and to face Trump and to effortlessly take Trump apart.

    Buttigieg articulates his liberal views in a serious, sober and thoughtful manner. A well-crafted response to tough questions can be expected.  The response to the question about the recent tragedy in his city and the urgency for police accountability demonstrated vulnerability which was at once honest and heartfelt.

    Joe Biden seemed weary--not so much physically as in having to deal with, what he no doubt feels, as not this again--sort of, you know we tried that many years ago and it did not work. Or, I did that, already. He may have hoped to stay above the fray, but that was not to be.

    Bernie Sanders was--well Bernie. Some of his ideas of 2016, although not all new at that time, have been embraced by the other candidates. Hopefully, he will see that as an attaboy and call it a day.

    Kirsten Gillibrand has many good ideas and has been a good senator, standing up to Trump appointments relentlessly.  But, the debate did not help, only making her seem desperate. Should have learned from deBlasio's tactic.  Micheal Bennet is a decent and kind man. A fine liberal thinker, but is likely to be eaten alive by Trump. Eric Swalwell over-worked his I am young, Joe you are old, pass the torch.  His contribution may have been not so much the age issue, as the unprepared response from Biden.

    Andrew Yang was there.  Marianne Williamson was out there.  John Hickenlooper reminds that what makes for a popular governor does not necessarily translate nationally.  But, beyond his lackluster responses (fortunately for him, he did not get many questions), he did a disservice.

    Hickenlooper's misleading references to "socialism" played into the Republican's campaign.  The Democratic candidates may be progressive, but that socialist.  Even Bernie.  None propose what socialism is: government ownership of the means of production.

     The candidates, rather, are proponents of a stronger safety net, regulations to avoid capitalistic greed, and human rights. Still a private sector economy.  Indeed, steps that will solidify our system. The socialism is the same argument against FDR's new deal, the best thing that even happened to capitalism. Although, the Republicans still will not admit it.  

    Maybe a Warren/Harris ticket. A bold step for sure, but that is what is needed.

    After (none / 0) (#39)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 03:12:28 PM EST
    the first round of debates these are the ones who should remain on the island, IMO.

    Biden: a stale pol running on stale ideas, remains only because of inertia.

    Bernie: a stale pol, running on fresh ideas pretending that he invented them, plenty on the left still dig his greatest hits.

    Warren: the policy queen who can play Bernie's songs much better than anybody.

    Harris: Made her presence felt far more than anyone else. Waffly on policy but almost the perfect person to prosecute the tRump/Republican crime syndicate.

    Mayor Pete: Extremely calm and collected, he projects deep thoughtfulness that resonates, a policy mystery but he engenders trust.

    Castro: Made his presence felt, a policy wonk on Immigration, played his way into the next debate.

    Booker:  Made his presence felt, policy wonk on gun control, played his way in.

    All the rest should just go home, that includes you Beto.


    pretty much agree with you (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdm251 on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 03:29:13 PM EST
    accept I'd trade Tulsi for Mayor Pete, she's the best anti-war voice

    A (5.00 / 5) (#42)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 03:36:18 PM EST
    Tulsi fan in these parts? Your English is very good, comrade.

    No Pete. (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 03:56:45 PM EST
    Putin no like gays.  He can sort of tolerate them, but he says: "some things do appear to be excessive to us."..."should not be allowed to overshadow traditions and traditional family values."   Similar sentiments of Jerry Falwell Jr. Although his pool boy may have a different view.  Tulsi like gays of late.

    If only russian spies don't suport Pete (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdm251 on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 04:02:52 PM EST
    I guess about 99% of the population is are Russian spies.  Who knew

    Pulling (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 04:09:39 PM EST
    bogus stats out of your ass, better up your game if you want more Rubles in your pay check.

    Russian spies (none / 0) (#49)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 04:32:55 PM EST
    do what President Putin wants.  President Putin, on gays, does what Russian Orthodox Church wants.  particularly. Moscow Patriarch Kirill and the polonium tea server have a mutual destruction pact. Some might think the Russian Orthodox Church would have learned its lesson in 1917 when the Czarist government and the Church, riding in the same car, went off the cliff.  

    It sounds like Falwell Jr.'s pool boy ... (none / 0) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 05:43:41 PM EST
    ... appears to have had a fling with his wife, rather than with him. Anyway, their very strange story is really none of my business and I'd kinda sorta like to keep it that way, even it does likely run entirely counter to their own public image. Perhaps Liberty University's motto should be "Who Would Jesus Schtupp?"

    meant to reply to this (none / 0) (#45)
    by kdm251 on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 03:48:21 PM EST
    but did a general reply instead.  But happy to get a chance to reference the Americans

    Bill Weld says (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 01, 2019 at 05:30:50 PM EST
    He would like to debate Alex Baldwin in his Trump wig.

    I would totally watch that.

    Oh, me too. (none / 0) (#71)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 01, 2019 at 05:55:24 PM EST
    Maybe they will do it for SNL.

    You're So Vain (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 07:53:19 PM EST
    Oh, my that is perfect. I hope I never have to get between Biden and a camera but Bernie all you have to do is ask him a question he doesn't like and he will walk out in a huff.

    Biden seems like (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 08:11:15 PM EST
    Someone forgot to wind him tightly enough.

    Pete is looking better (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 08:12:52 PM EST
    By the answer.  And Senator Harris too.

    They (none / 0) (#4)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 08:14:49 PM EST
    both look much calmer than the rest.

    Time for the Bernie hook (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 08:16:22 PM EST
    Cosmetics foundation manufacturers (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 08:15:33 PM EST
    A probably contributing to Biden's campaign.  

    Wow (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 08:17:52 PM EST
    Marianne drops the mic.

    Whatever else (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 08:22:44 PM EST
    This seems very bad for Biden.  At least so far.

    Yeah, (none / 0) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 08:38:14 PM EST
    the pundits are saying the same thing. What do you think the reason Biden is doing so poorly? Didn't bring his A-game (not that I think he has one to begin with) but whatever.

    He just seems really out of it (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 08:41:47 PM EST
    Like he's having trouble following along.   It's weird.  I have noticed him seeming this feeble

    I have NOT noticed him (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 08:42:24 PM EST
    Just (none / 0) (#12)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 08:54:42 PM EST
    keeps snapping back to his rather tedious talking points, and unlike Sanders he does it with little passion.

    Agree he had trouble (none / 0) (#19)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 10:26:49 PM EST
    following along, see my update.

    I like Joe Biden, but ... (none / 0) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 05:30:07 PM EST
    ... whenever I look at and listen to him, the Beatles song "Yesterday" comes immediately to mind. Sen. Harris's takedown of him last night pretty much rendered him a walking anachronism.

    Harris is doing (none / 0) (#13)
    by CST on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 08:54:45 PM EST
    What I'd hoped she would do. Pete is doing well but struggling somewhat with the South bend answer.  Hickenlooper hit him hard.

    Harris with the very hard, very well deserved shot at Biden.

    That (none / 0) (#14)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 09:00:53 PM EST
    was intense but Bernie and Gillebrand change the subject away from racism back to heir safe zones.

    She sure knows (none / 0) (#22)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 10:38:36 PM EST
    how to slip into righteous grandstanding prosecutor mode at the drop of a hat.

    Almost like she's had a lot of practice.

    Old Joe's being culled from the herd and  sent to glue factory. That seemed to be one the commonly agreed upon projects of the night.


    If they take down (none / 0) (#23)
    by MKS on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 10:45:29 PM EST
    Joe, I am not sure who can win....

    Maybe Booker.


    Booker (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 06:02:34 AM EST
    and his eternally cheerful demeanor and his message of love may be the perfect antidote to the dark and menacing message of Trump.

    I certainly expect Biden's numbers in SC and nationally start to go down after this debate.


    Swalwell (none / 0) (#15)
    by MKS on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 09:26:30 PM EST
    is really, really annoying.

    Kamala is pushing hard, but a little too much...

    Agree (none / 0) (#20)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 10:27:59 PM EST
    he is obnoxious and she is trying too hard to convince us she's something other than she is -- a former prosecutor.

    Pretty much unimpressed (none / 0) (#16)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 09:58:09 PM EST
    with the entire group. Though I'd like hear more from Bennett. That said, I really want someone other than an old white guy as the nominee.

    Harris did well (none / 0) (#17)
    by MKS on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 09:59:25 PM EST
    but against Trump?  Pennsylvania, Wisconsin?


    The premise (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by MKS on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 10:25:02 PM EST
    underlying much of the analysis of tonight's debate, is who can be the best debater against Trump.

    I don't think it matters that much.  Hillary beat Trump in the debates decisively.  It did not matter.

    Kamala would eviscerate Trump in the debates.  But to what end?

    Kamala I think shows more electability imo by avoiding adopting the Bernie agenda in full.



    Kamala sounds good because (none / 0) (#21)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 10:30:02 PM EST
    she's a trial lawyer and successful trial lawyers are good orators. The question is, is she consistent in her positions and as others have pointed out many times, she is not. She saw an opening and grabbed it, but that doesn't make her qualified to govern a nation.

    Kamala needs to stay (none / 0) (#24)
    by MKS on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 10:54:19 PM EST
    away from Medicare from all.  

    If we give up on blue collar whites, then white suburbia will have to make it up....

    And telling middle class suburbia that they will lose their employer based health care in favor of a new medicare idea....


    Interesting Harris followup (none / 0) (#53)
    by ragebot on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 07:00:14 PM EST
    NBC had a weird exchange with her about abolishing private insurance.

    She said she did not understand the question and claimed she thought it was about abolishing her private insurance; not private insurance for everyone else.

    Have to say it sounds fishy to me.  Kinda like her claim she listened to Snoop in college; problem was he did not record anything till after she graduated. I get the impression she will say anything she thinks will get her elected.


    Not ideal (none / 0) (#54)
    by MKS on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 07:43:10 PM EST
    But compared to Trump....

    Will say anything (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 07:50:56 PM EST
    that will get her elected.

    Sounds like every person who's ever run for President in my lifetime.


    ran for President (none / 0) (#57)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 07:51:49 PM EST
    I don't think (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 05:58:09 AM EST
    we have to worry about PA and WI. I think almost all of the candidates will carry those states with Trump's current numbers. My concern is places like Florida and Ohio.

    I hoped Biden (none / 0) (#26)
    by MKS on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 01:37:48 AM EST
    would have done better.  Supposed rising star Kamala Harris just hitched her wagon to Medicare for all.  

    How depressing.  Looks like Trump wins again.

    Well, (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 05:55:52 AM EST
    I would say Harris did us all a favor by showing us that Biden is not the best we have. He was totally unprepared for what came at him and I would say he should have known. Trump would make mincemeat out of him.

    Trump may or may not win (none / 0) (#30)
    by CST on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 08:23:18 AM EST
    But I have a hard time believing that its going to come down to people fighting for the right to private health insurance.

    Trump is an anomaly.  He'll win or lose because he's Trump.


    Taking (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 09:14:05 AM EST
    away what people have is never going to be a winning political argument and that's the unfortunate argument too many have been making.

    What should be offered is just a Medicare buy in for those that want to buy in. Easy, simple and not taking anything away from the people that want private insurance. One question that I ask is do we want Mike Pence running women's healthcare? You see how they have been legislating crap when it comes to women. MFA like Bernie is proposing would give people like Pence MORE POWER over women.


    What power (none / 0) (#34)
    by CST on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 09:47:17 AM EST
    Does the Vice President have over Medicare? FWIW I'm not saying it's a "winning political argument", I'm saying its not really going to matter in 2020.

    Personally while I don't think it's the best possible way forward I do think that on the off chance it happens we're still much better off than we are today.  And what I don't see is any Dem vetoing a public option because it doesn't ban private insurance.


    Perhaps (none / 0) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 10:42:35 AM EST
    Mitch McConnell would be a better question? He and other Republicans have budgetary power over Medicare. However, McConnell's ideology is indistinguishable from Pence's.

    Personally I prefer the Bismarck Plan where there are sickness plans that you pay into.


    On the subject of bussing (none / 0) (#31)
    by CST on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 09:01:48 AM EST
    I was also bussed to a school where people did not look like me, although I went in the opposite direction as Harris.

    There's a lot to be said about how bussing did or didn't work (it didn't, because people just abandoned the public school system). However, I will never trust the original opposition, especially on "states rights". That goes for John Kelly and Joe Biden. It's why I never gave John Kelly the benefit of the doubt. Joe Biden could have been okay if he acknowledged the mistake and showed personal progress, but he did the opposite of that last night.

    Biden is incapable (none / 0) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 09:16:29 AM EST
    of admitting that he has grown or anything. This is another rendition of his botched response to Anita Hill.

    Biden is just a bad candidate. So far he has been able to coast but last night showed why he should not be allowed to coast.


    Both nights were about Bernie (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdm251 on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 12:11:47 PM EST
    for the most part the candidates have been talking about how they would implement Bernie's ideas, accept for maybe Biden who seems to think this time he'll be able to implement Obamas goals from 2008.  

    With the exception of Sanders, all the other candidates seem like they are auditioning for the VP slot.  If you want your VP to be an attack dog Harris seems like the best choice, although Tulsi is showing she can bring the pain as well.  

    I'm old enough to remember (none / 0) (#38)
    by CST on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 02:19:34 PM EST
    When Medicare for All was proposed on West Wing during the Bush administration. I didn't realize it was actually Bernie Sanders who invented the idea of public healthcare...

    Not a single person on either stage was auditioning to be Bernie's VP, except maybe Bernie himself since apparently he just can't trust anyone else.


    why not take the income cap off medicaid (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdm251 on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 03:33:17 PM EST
    I really wonder why no one has ever suggested that they make Medicaid available to everyone, now I think if you make over about $30k you're not eligible, do away with that limit and you could pretty much end medical bankruptcy and if anyone really wanted to keep their insurance they could.

    It's funny (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by CST on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 03:37:43 PM EST
    Because a lot of the M4A plans essentially try to turn Medicare into Medicaid.  The reason no one calls it Medicaid for all is because Medicare has better marketing  (every old person gets it, Medicaid is for the poors).

    Amazing observation (none / 0) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 29, 2019 at 10:28:00 AM EST
    I believe you are right

    did you watch the americans? (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdm251 on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 03:40:37 PM EST
    after the illegals program ended I decided to stay here for the nicer weather

    Wha? (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by desertswine on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 06:56:46 PM EST
    I love (none / 0) (#55)
    by MKS on Fri Jun 28, 2019 at 07:47:07 PM EST
    the double verb "are/is."  

    For example, I could write:  We are is hoping Trump gets defeated.....


    Cover needs work (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 29, 2019 at 06:01:15 PM EST
    This bugs me about Kamala (none / 0) (#59)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 29, 2019 at 12:59:47 PM EST
    During her vaunted cross of Attorney General Barr, she asked him if he had discussed investigating certain people with Trump.

    She used various phrases to get around Barr's evasiveness.   At one point, she asked if someone "inferred" that such an investigation be conducted.

    Wrong word.  She meant "implied."  But isn't this one of those standard SAT questions?  

    Maybe trivial, but it bugs me every time I see this clip of her cross.

    Not as smart as Hillary.

    And HIllary knocked the stuffing (none / 0) (#60)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 29, 2019 at 01:01:29 PM EST
    out of Trump during the debates.....Just what the Armando types say Kamala will do.

    I don't think describing (none / 0) (#61)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 29, 2019 at 01:28:36 PM EST
    Climate Change in the debate as merely an "existential threat" was at all a skillful, accurate use of the language either.

    She saw someone say that (none / 0) (#62)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 29, 2019 at 02:09:47 PM EST
    on t.v.

    Yeah, there's a lot (none / 0) (#63)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 29, 2019 at 05:08:23 PM EST
    of existential threats going around these days.

    IMO (none / 0) (#66)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 29, 2019 at 07:15:46 PM EST
    nobody is of Hillary's caliber this year. However, Hillary also went through the ring of fire many times and for many years. So maybe once they are severely tested they will rise too.

    If irony (none / 0) (#64)
    by MKS on Sat Jun 29, 2019 at 05:59:16 PM EST
    not necessarily untrue.

    Entertaining (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 30, 2019 at 03:37:16 PM EST
    Didn't agree with every point but enough

    POLITICO on Dems having an actual primary and how that's a scary thing

    MIAMI--Marianne Williamson narrowed her eyes and gazed into my soul, channeling some of the same telekinetic life force she'd used minutes earlier to cast a spell on Donald Trump in her closing statement of Thursday's Democratic presidential debate. Inside a sweaty spin room, with swarms of reporters enfolding Kamala Harris and Bernie Sanders and Kirsten Gillibrand, the author and self-help spiritualist drifted through the madness with a mien of Zen-like satisfaction. It was only when I asked her a question--what does she say to people who don't think she belonged on that debate stage?--that Williamson's sorcerous intensity returned.

    "This is a democracy, that's what I say to them," she replied, her hypnotic voice anchored by an accent perfected at Rick's Café. "There's this political class, and media class, that thinks they get to tell people who becomes president. This is what's wrong with America. We don't do aristocracy here. We do democracy."


    Leaving Miami, it was apparent to Democrats that they have a very different race on their hands--and a very different front-runner. Biden's team talks openly about a strategy of disengagement, an approach that sounds reasonable but in fact puts the entire party at risk. The danger Democrats face is not that a talented field of candidates will be systematically wiped out by a dominant political force. The danger is that there is no dominant political force; that at this intersection of ideological drift and generational discontent and institutional disruption, an obtrusively large collection of candidates will be emboldened to keep fighting not just for their candidacies but for their conception of liberalism itself, feeding the perception of a party in turmoil and easing the president's fight for reelection.

    The "gay waiter" thing is just sort of (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 01, 2019 at 11:28:02 AM EST

    It's the kind of thing I expect to hear from local elderly folks who want to try to be "hip".  Or possibly "hep".

    You smile roll your eyes and move on.

    This guy is running for President.  Biden would be as reliable a source of cringe worthy pronouncements as Cheeto.  It would just be a matter of degree.

    I would say (none / 0) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 01, 2019 at 01:02:25 PM EST
    it's his age but then he's always been this way. He's too old to change.

    Kamala (none / 0) (#72)
    by MKS on Tue Jul 02, 2019 at 03:24:17 PM EST
    doing real well in the polls....

    Okay, let it be her.  Can we be done now with the Primary and go after Trump?