Friday night open thread

I am stuck in traffic headed up I 70 with all the Skiers —
only I’m going to the jail not the slopes. I’ll be back writing Tomorrow .

This is an open thread all topics welcome

< Trump's State of the Union | The Grammy's: So Many Awards, So Little Time >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    Already sick of this (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 08:53:57 AM EST
    Quick, name a male senator who's biggest issue was being "mean" to staffers.
    It might be true it might not.  She might be the best candidate and she might not.  But this IMO is bullsh!t and I will not decide to vote for her based on this.  

    I think it's clear someone thinks she is a threat and this is some kind of silver bullet

    Minnesota Democrat Klobuchar `Cruel And Mean' Mistreatment Of Staff Leaked

    Several staffers of Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar, who is expected to announced her candidacy for the 2020 presidential race shortly, have complained to leftwing publication the Huffington post about the `cruel and mean' demeanor which she shows off-camera.

    The timing of the leak, and the publication that was chosen to launch it, is surprising.

    As long as her politics are right, (2.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 09:10:36 AM EST
    then mistreating, abusing, and exploiting her workers is no biggie.  Playing the gender card is just sad.

    Is it? (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Yman on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 10:01:22 AM EST
    As long as her politics are right, then mistreating, abusing, and exploiting her workers is no biggie.  Playing the gender card is just sad.

    So it's safe to assume you didn't vote for Trump?



    LOL (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 10:09:03 AM EST
    If they have some evidence they need to come forward with their names and provide it. It looks like she made people do their jobs not slack off. Something conservatives wouldn't understand with with an idol who spends the majority of the day watching TV and eating KFC.

    Come forward (none / 0) (#77)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 05:57:00 PM EST
    and ensure you never work for a congressional Dem again. Fat chance.

    Your crocodile concern ... (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Yman on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 08:05:07 AM EST
    ... for these Congressional staffers is duly noted - as is your deafening silence for Trump's workers/staffers/subcontractors.

    Thanks (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 09:14:19 AM EST
    For your support

    Ok that was an odd site (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 09:06:36 AM EST
    Doesn't mean it's not right in this case.

    I absolutely think HuffPo is the place she would be attacked by those who think she is not "progressive" enough


    Yeah, (none / 0) (#10)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 10:10:04 AM EST
    I feel the same way. This kind of does not pass the smell test. I wonder who put this out there? There also were people who worked for her who said she was wonderful.

    I doubt she is wonderful (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 10:13:55 AM EST
    I doubt very much any Senator is wonderful to work for.

    They are famously high pressure jobs.


    This story is not new (none / 0) (#13)
    by ragebot on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 10:43:37 AM EST
    HUFPO may simply be trying to get the bad stuff out early so it is really old news in crunch time.

    Maybe the key blurb from the HUFPO article is this.

    What is indisputable, however, is that Klobuchar's office consistently has one of the highest rates of staff turnover in the Senate. Klobuchar's rate of turnover ranked No. 1 in an analysis of all Senate staff salaries between 2001 and 2016, conducted by LegiStorm, a widely used database of congressional staff salaries. (Klobuchar was sworn into office in 2007.) She's now third, behind Maryland Democrat Chris Van Hollen and Louisiana Republican John Kennedy.

    Something to watch.


    What I think (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 10:47:32 AM EST
    Is someone, almost certainly a democrat - or democrats, are very worried about her candidacy.

    And I think if this is the best they can do they should be.


    Lots of (none / 0) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 11:46:50 AM EST
    rumors out there on places like twitter that all this stuff is coming from Biden's camp and not just Klobuchar that is getting hit.

    So f'ing believable (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 11:56:26 AM EST
    But that's more reflective of Twitter... (none / 0) (#23)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 12:01:07 AM EST
    ... as a readily available tool with which to traffic in gossip, rumor, innuendo and insults, and otherwise engage in generally trashy behavior, than as a place to receive accurate news and information. I've seen more manners and decorum from drunks in a barroom, than I have on Twitter.

    That's why (none / 0) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 06:46:22 AM EST
    I always qualify anything coming from twitter as "rumor".

    Sen. Klobacher has long had ... (none / 0) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 09:41:18 PM EST
    ... a notorious reputation among Democratic D.C. staffers as someone who's extraordinarily difficult to work for. Similarly, she's also known to be a workaholic herself, who puts in a full 10-12 hour day at the office and then takes several hours worth of constituent-related work home with her at night. It's not surprising that some staff members might find it difficult to keep up that frenetic pace.

    Her announcement today (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 09:45:24 PM EST
    In a blizzard with a big crowd was pretty good.

    Then Trump of course was tweeting about how the fact it was snowing disproved global warming.

    Of all the stupid sh!t we have to hear I think that might be the most annoying.

    If there is a dialog about climate in the election I really think we have to stop making the Obama mistake of underestimating the stupidity of the average American and slowly and clearly explain global warming does not mean it won't get cold until the mouth breathing morons understand it.  If we did nothing else that would be a major victory.


    Sen. Klobuchar is going to have to ... (none / 0) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 04:40:08 AM EST
    ... do much better at addressing the stories about her alleged abuse of staff, which actually pre-date her Senate tenure and first came up back in 2005-06 when she was Hennepin County (Minneapolis) Attorney, and became the subject of an official complaint by AFSCME, the public employee union.

    It certainly didn't help that her office actually drafted a list of staff protocols that included instructions for doing household chores and personal errands as directed, which is both demeaning and against Senate rules. Even some of her own longtime supporters in Minnesota are ell aware of the issues she's had in that regard, which apparently include temper tantrums and thrown objects.

    As someone who worked for years in both state legislative and congressional staffs, I take such matters very seriously, because how Sen. Klobuchar treats her staff is entirely reflective of her own personal character. I can respect a boss who's tough and demanding, but also fair and civil. I draw the line at divas, prima donnas, bullies and a$$holes.

    Further, dismissing questions about her relationships with staff or her temperament as misogyny, sour grapes or "politics as usual" will pretty much guarantee that the story's not going to go away any time soon, and will bubble beneath the surface until someone chooses to raise it again at a time of their own choosing.



    Oh (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 10:49:31 AM EST
    And I don't think headlining the story hours before her official announcement would really qualify as "getting it out there early"

    But that's just me


    "The political anatomy of disgust" (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by leap on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 07:29:46 PM EST
    Let me recommend.. (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by desertswine on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 01:15:51 PM EST
    Peter Jackson's "They Shall Not Grow Old." It's a documentary about WWI using restored 100 year old footage.  The restoration of the old film is nothing short of amazing.  It looks as if it was shot yesterday.  

    Trailer (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 06:13:20 PM EST
    History, Stephen said, (none / 0) (#26)
    by jondee on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 02:10:50 PM EST
    is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake.

    And speaking of history (none / 0) (#29)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 03:24:57 PM EST
    The Governor-for-now of Virginia does not know the difference between the conditions under which enslaved Africans were brought to Jamestown -- exactly 400 years ago -- and the terms and conditions under which (for example, Irish and English) indentured servants came to the American colonies.

    Not defending Ralph (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 04:57:31 PM EST
    But not being completely familiar with the difference myself it seems a bit more complicated.

    History of Slavery in Virginia

    Though the history of blacks in Virginia begins in 1619, the transition of status from indentured servant to lifelong slave was a gradual process. Some historians believe that some of the first blacks who arrived in Virginia were already slaves, while others say they were taken into the colony as indentured servants. Historians generally believe slavery in the English colonies in North America did not begin as an institution until the 1660s.[7

    Well, I'm certainly not a professional historian (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 06:11:39 PM EST
    I thought that the African captives brought to Jamestown by pirates in 1619 (who had stolen them from slavers in the Caribbean or the Gulf of Mexico or something) then sold those persons -- not contracts for the labor of those persons for a set period of time, but the persons themselves -- to Jamestown settlers. That's the difference. In fact, if it is correct that the Africans were brought to Jamestown by pirates, and that the pirates had acquired them as booty, then the notion that what the pirates sold to the settlers was a contract for labor, rather than a slave, seems implausible to me. But what do I know about the economics of 17th Century piracy? Hey, we have (at least) two professional historians among us -- Towanda and Donald. Perhaps they can shed some light on this, if in fact there is some legitimate confusion about it.

    The institution of slavery ... (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 03:29:05 AM EST
    ... ... was already well-established in North America by the time the concept of indentureship took root. One's status as a slave was more or less permanent and involuntary, whereas an indentureship was ostensibly by one's own choice for a finite amount of time. Once you fulfilled the terms of your contract, you were free to leave.

    When the British Empire began to outlaw human slavery and its attendant slave trade in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, the system of indentureship was quickly adopted as a means to ensure that the ready supply of cheap labor could continue more or less uninterrupted.

    Sadly, in many such instances, indentureship existed merely as slavery by another, less odious name. The question became whether you were ever really stood a chance of fulfilling the terms of your contract, given your particular circumstances. Most who suffered under indentureship were not native Britons.

    The people most affected by this particular system were Indians, which accounts for the presently large populations of ethnic Indians in such far-flung places as Fiji (central Pacific), Malaysia and Singapore (southeast Asia), KwaZulu-Natal (South Africa), Trinidad & Tobago (southern Caribbean) and Guyana (northeastern South America), all of which are former territories of the British Empire.

    These ethnic Indians are mostly descendants of the indentured class, who had been relocated by their British overlords to suit the Empire's needs or their own business purposes. Evidence strongly suggests that many of these people did not exercise agency on their own behalf.

    The majority signed their contracts by affixing their thumbprints, which underscores the fact that they were illiterate and could neither comprehend nor understand the terms therein. Those contracts were more often than not written in English which was, after all, a foreign language to them.

    Further, most were deceived about their final destinations; protestations for release generally fell on deaf ears. And a significant percentage were duped, kidnapped, coerced and exploited into indentureship. The indentured were almost never repatriated back home by their bosses, because the terms of their contracts seldom if ever accounted for the means of their return.



    Indian indentured servitude (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 08:23:46 AM EST
    Indeed came after slavery was established.  But indentured servitude did not begin there and in fact predated slavery in the colonies according to everything I have found to read on the subject.


    Indentured Servants In The U.S.

    Indentured servants first arrived in America in the decade following the settlement of Jamestown by the Virginia Company in 1607.

    The idea of indentured servitude was born of a need for cheap labor. The earliest settlers soon realized that they had lots of land to care for, but no one to care for it. With passage to the Colonies expensive for all but the wealthy, the Virginia Company developed the system of indentured servitude to attract workers. Indentured servants became vital to the colonial economy.

    The timing of the Virginia colony was ideal. The Thirty Year's War had left Europe's economy depressed, and many skilled and unskilled laborers were without work. A new life in the New World offered a glimmer of hope; this explains how one-half to two-thirds of the immigrants who came to the American colonies arrived as indentured servants.

    Servants typically worked four to seven years in exchange for passage, room, board, lodging and freedom dues. While the life of an indentured servant was harsh and restrictive, it wasn't slavery. There were laws that protected some of their rights. But their life was not an easy one, and the punishments meted out to people who wronged were harsher than those for non-servants. An indentured servant's contract could be extended as punishment for breaking a law, such as running away, or in the case of female servants, becoming pregnant.

    For those that survived the work and received their freedom package, many historians argue that they were better off than those new immigrants who came freely to the country. Their contract may have included at least 25 acres of land, a year's worth of corn, arms, a cow and new clothes. Some servants did rise to become part of the colonial elite, but for the majority of indentured servants that survived the treacherous journey by sea and the harsh conditions of life in the New World, satisfaction was a modest life as a freeman in a burgeoning colonial economy.

    In 1619 the first black Africans came to Virginia. With no slave laws in place, they were initially treated as indentured servants, and given the same opportunities for freedom dues as whites. However, slave laws were soon passed - in Massachusetts in 1641 and Virginia in 1661 -and any small freedoms that might have existed for blacks were taken away.

    As demands for labor grew, so did the cost of indentured servants. Many landowners also felt threatened by newly freed servants demand for land. The colonial elite realized the problems of indentured servitude. Landowners turned to African slaves as a more profitable and ever-renewable source of labor and the shift from indentured servants to racial slavery had begun.

    Indian indentured service (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 08:42:34 AM EST
    Seems to be a response to the end of slavery

    Between 1838 and 1917, western European governments allowed their planters in the Caribbean to import an estimated 500,000 Indian indentured servants from India to work on their plantations. The arrival of these indentured laborers was in direct response to a so-called labor shortage emanating from slave emancipation.

    It was a direct response to it. (none / 0) (#61)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 01:29:07 PM EST
    And as I noted above, many aspects of indentured servitude came to resemble slavery. Plantation-based colonial societies tended to be the worst. Even in the Kingdom of Hawaii, the sugar plantation system in place in the late 19th century was terribly brutal toward and exploitive of its imported laborers, who first came from China and then later from Japan and the Philippines. Our bloody labor battles out here in the early 20th century were in direct response to workers' wretched conditions.

    Ok (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 09:12:28 AM EST
    This this turning into the Dean Scream

    I am watching the Mornng Joe crew spew information, according to PBS and Oxford biographies etc, that is flatly not true.  I just heard that the first blacks brought to VA were brought there as slaves and "whitewashing" it by calling them indentured servants was like "talking about the War of Northern Aggression"

    This is nuts.

    Look, I'm not defending Ralph.  I'm happy to concede even using the term indentured servant was stupid on his part.  But he was not incorrect. And throwing flat lies and disinformation about what he said is low and lazy.

    I hope someone sends them some links to actual information.


    One thing about this that bugs me (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 09:57:51 AM EST
    Is I'm pretty sure some media figures know they are misrepresenting the fact.  Different ones for different reasons.  Joe Scarborough might do t because he simply wants to rat f'k democrats.

    Some democrats because they want to use to force him to resign.  Which you can choose to justify or not but personally I think it's not only despicable but stupid because given the situation it could easily end up giving the governorship to a republican who won his office by a coin flip.

    Another example of stupid democrat circular firing squads.

    That poll was telling that VA blacks 20+% more likely to practice pragmatism than clutch pearls.


    OMG (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 10:22:32 AM EST
    I just heard the very first correction to someone saying "year they were actually slaves"

    Explaining exactly what I said above including the part that Ralph was stupid to say what he said.

    Perhaps there is hope.

    Bless you Geoff Bennett


    My bad (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 12:20:55 PM EST
    Bennett's previous response was forced to be revised and extended by Ms Greenspan.

    F'k this BS.


    And linking to wiki doesn't make me one (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 06:22:37 PM EST
    I could not have told you the precise difference between a slave and an indentured servant.  Which is why I looked.

    But it sort of appears, if that's true, Ralph was not necessarily incorrect in saying this -

    We are now at the 400-year anniversary -- just 90 miles from here in 1619. The first indentured servants from Africa landed on our shores in Old Point Comfort, what we call now Fort Monroe, and while--," Northam said, before King cut him off.

    In fact (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 06:29:30 PM EST
    I wouldn't be surprised if Ralph read that wiki page.

    The other major difference (none / 0) (#43)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 09:23:53 PM EST
    which I forgot to mention, is obviously that the status of being a slave is hereditary -- the children of enslaved persons are born into slavery. (That's how slavery continued and expanded in the U.S. for sixty years after the importation of slaves was abolished in 1808.) The status of being an indentured servant is not inherited.

    Inherited from the mother (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 09:37:17 PM EST
    Regardless of the father according to the link.

    After this case, the colonial legislature adopted the principle of partus sequitur ventrem, saying that all children born in the colony would take the status of their mothers, regardless of paternity. Thus children born to enslaved mothers would be enslaved, regardless of their ethnicity or paternity.

    Which makes a horrific kind of sense.


    Well, I'm curious to find out (none / 0) (#48)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 10:38:35 PM EST
    what the status under U.S. slavery laws was of the child of a white woman (an indentured servant, let's say) who was impregnated by a black slave.

    My guess would be case by case (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 10:44:25 PM EST
    I would think the law was passed about maternity they make it easier to deal with any children from an owners relations with a slave.

    Which I suspect was very common.


    According to Higginbotham's history of (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Peter G on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 10:57:39 AM EST
    the law of slavery in colonial times, while the child of an enslaved mother was born a slave, even if their father was white (often, the master), the child of a white mother -- typically an indentured servant, but potentially a member of the master's family -- impregnated by an enslaved black father was born into a 30-year term of indentured servitude, but not into slavery. Even this sicko code of hyper-regulation of the institution was racially and sexually fraught.

    Also one became the other (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 10:01:06 PM EST
    Hugh Gwyn petitioned the courts, and the three servants were captured, convicted, and sentenced. The white servants had their indentured contracts extended by four years, but the courts gave John Punch a much harsher sentence. The courts decided that "the third being a negro named John Punch shall serve his said master or his assigns for the time of his natural life here or else where." This is considered the earliest legal documentation of slavery in Virginia. It marked racial disparity in the treatment of black servants and their white counterparts, but also the beginning of Virginian courts reducing Negros from a condition of indentured servitude to slavery. Leon Higginbotham believes the case is evidence that the colony was developing a policy to force Negro laborers to serve terms of life servitude.[8]

    In other cases, masters refused to acknowledge the expiration of indentured contracts of blacks, most of whom were illiterate in English.

    A term of servitude for life (none / 0) (#47)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 10:36:16 PM EST
    as punishment for some offense -- no matter how cruel or unjust -- is not the same as chattel slavery, as I understand it, even if racially discriminatory (as shown in this account), so long as the condition is not visited upon the person's children. I have a copy of Judge Higginbotham's book in my office. (I had the privilege to know him. A great man.) I'll see what he says about that tomorrow, if I get a chance.

    Higginbotham's scholarly book (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 03:24:40 PM EST
    examines slavery from a legal perspective. He notes that the first 20 Africans arrived at Jamestown in 1619 on a Dutch-flagged ship with an English crew (he does not call them pirates) who had seized or stolen them from a Spanish ship they had attacked. These Africans were sold as a form of property to Jamestown settlers. The dispute about whether they were slaves or "indentured servants" has to do with the limited legal vocabulary of the time; English law in 1619, which applied to the Jamestown colony, did not provide for slavery as we understand that term. But that is not to say that slavery in fact (if not in law) did not exist. That is, these Africans did not enter into a contract to provide their labor for some period of time, in exchange for something of value to themselves. And their children were not free until and unless their freedom was purchased from the settler that "owned" the parent. So, while the term "indentured servant" was used prior to the 1660s, Higginbotham says, to describe their status in legal documents, the facts of their condition were essentially what we would call today "slavery" -- even if not entirely regulated by a detailed, written "slave code" as came to exist some 40 years later.

    This. (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Towanda on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 11:44:19 AM EST
    Virtual Slavery (none / 0) (#56)
    by ragebot on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 09:27:33 AM EST
    was well established in North America well before Europeans arrived.

    The stronger Native American Indians would capture weaker ones.  A common practice was that when an Indian would die his tribe would capture an Indian from another tribe to replace him.

    Once the Europeans arrived stronger Indian tribes would capture Indians from other tribes and sell them to the Europeans, or other tribes.

    Mission San Luis has regular lectures on this topic, as well as several other topics.  Well worth a visit if you are in the area.


    Slavery was a not-uncommon practice ... (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 01:33:40 PM EST
    ... among many tribal-based societies throughout history. But in the United States, slavery was actually codified into law as an institution and it took a bloody civil war to dismantle it. That's the primary difference.

    The US Civil War (none / 0) (#63)
    by ragebot on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 02:47:40 PM EST
    and the rebellion in Haiti are the only two examples I know of where slavery was ended by armed conflict.

    There are economists who claim the reason slavery ended most every where else (I know it still exists today but not as a competitive labor source) is because other sources of labor were more efficient.

    Slaves were not cost free; they required significant investment to obtain, food, shelter, clothing, medical care, and some form of motivation at a minimum.  Even then they were not as cheap or productive as other labor source where incentives matter.

    It is not easy to explain why there are only two examples of armed conflict to end slavery while in the rest of the world it kinda died out because of better sources of labor.


    The US Civil War (none / 0) (#64)
    by ragebot on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 02:48:27 PM EST
    and the rebellion in Haiti are the only two examples I know of where slavery was ended by armed conflict.

    There are economists who claim the reason slavery ended most every where else (I know it still exists today but not as a competitive labor source) is because other sources of labor were more efficient.

    Slaves were not cost free; they required significant investment to obtain, food, shelter, clothing, medical care, and some form of motivation at a minimum.  Even then they were not as cheap or productive as other labor source where incentives matter.

    It is not easy to explain why there are only two examples of armed conflict to end slavery while in the rest of the world it kinda died out because of better sources of labor.


    Slave and feudal peasant revolts (none / 0) (#66)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 03:34:22 PM EST
    throughout history are of course another story altogether.

    Spartacus, Wat Tyler, Gabriel Prosser, and Nat Turner being a few who got tired of chafing at the bit waiting for the established order to die a natural death.


    Slavery was codified even by Romans (none / 0) (#92)
    by Towanda on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 11:48:17 AM EST
    so what distinguished American slavery of Africans was that it was inherited.

    That's true. (none / 0) (#104)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 05:24:50 PM EST
    But the Romans also faded from the scene in the 5th century, and the first slaves didn't arrive in Virginia until 1619. Clearly, mankind didn't advance very far morally in the nearly 1,200-year interim.

    In Europe, slavery was replaced by an equally odious institution, serfdom, which wasn't fully abolished there until Czar Alexander II finally did so in the Russian Empire by proclamation in 1861. The Ottoman Empire, which controlled a good portion of southeaster Europe until 1912, abolished involuntary servitude in 1882. Brazil abolished slavery in 1888.

    The United States didn't really begin the formal process of abolishing slavery until 1780, one year before the Battle of Yorktown ended the Revolutionary War, when the Pennsylvania legislature passed "An Act for the Gradual Abolition of Slavery" which provided for the freedom of all future children born to slaves. But unfortunately, all those who were held captive prior to the Act's passage were left enslaved for life. Nevertheless, Pennsylvania's Abolition Act became the model legislation that other northern states soon began to emulate.

    The last slaves to be legally held in Pennsylvania were finally freed in 1847, 67 years after the Act's adoption. The last U.S. territory where slavery was legal was Guam, which had been seized from Spain by the U.S. during the Spanish-American War in 1898. Adm. Richard Leary, USN, who effectively functioned as military governor for the island, unilaterally abolished slavery by decree in February 1900.

    The final country to ratify the 1926 Slavery Convention was Kazakhstan in 2008. At this point, slavery is now abolished de jure in every country and political dependency throughout the world.



    And yet it isn't (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 05:50:54 PM EST
    Since the Modern Slavery Act of 2015, British companies over a certain size have been required to report on slavery in their supply chains. Their statements are both shocking and admirable. Shocking because they make clear that the incidence of slavery has become normalised

    once again - and not just in criminal operations such as the illegal drugs trade or trafficking for prostitution, but in the mainstream economy. The declarations are prefaced with management expressions of abhorrence, of course, but there they are, another note alongside the annual accounts. They are admirable, however, in that transparency must be the first step to tackling this phenomenon.

    Last month the National Crime Agency reported a 35% annual rise in the number of suspected slavery victims found in the UK, with more than 5,000 people referred to the government mechanism that supports them in 2017. Labour exploitation, rather than sexual exploitation, was the most common type of modern slavery cited.



    It's not that simple (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Towanda on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 11:46:51 AM EST
    because what distinguished American slavery of Africans and then African Americans was, as noted above, that it was inherited.

    I saw a preview of it - looked amazing (none / 0) (#199)
    by ruffian on Sun Feb 17, 2019 at 10:14:30 AM EST
    Is it in wide release yet?

    I know EVERYONE hates (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 09:32:50 AM EST
    The Nazi comparisons, but c'mon that THING in El Paso wreaked of a Nuremburg rally. This is not going well.

    Not to mention (none / 0) (#85)
    by Zorba on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 10:14:35 AM EST
    That there was a BBC cameraman who was attacked at that rally by a MAGA hat wearing Trumpist.
    I'm worried that it's only a matter of time before one of these loyalists does something even more serious to a member of a group that Trump has disparaged.  The press, immigrants, Democrats..........

    It really isn't (none / 0) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 11:17:41 AM EST
    Pretty sure the more pushed Trump is by Mueller and/or the house the more at risk the republic is.

    Anyone who thinks he would not encourage his mouth breathers to violence has not been paying attention.


    Meant to write. (none / 0) (#99)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 03:27:23 PM EST
    This is not going to END well.

    BAD LIP READING (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 07:57:23 AM EST
    Representative Ilhan Omar (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by KeysDan on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 05:39:20 PM EST
    will increasingly become a target of Republicans,  Today, during the House Foreign Affairs Committee session, Congresswoman Omar, rightly reminded the country of Elliot Abrams criminal past in the Iran Contra scandal of the Reagan Administration.

     On Abrams watch, as Assistant Secretary of State for Human Rights and Humanitarian Affairs, a US trained battalion of El Salvador's military massacred  1000 villagers, wrongly claimed by Abrams as being "communists."

     Faced with several felony charges, Abrams cooperated with Iran Contra Special Counsel, Lawrence Walsh, in exchange for pleading guilty to two misdemeanors of lying/withholding information to Congress.  He was sentenced to 2 years probation and 100 hours of community service.  President George HW Bush, in consultation with his AG, Wm. Barr (soon to be, once again, AG in the Trump Administration), pardoned Abrams.  

    Abrams, now Special Envoy to Venezuela, was subjected, for the record, to his past role, and asked by  Ms. Omar, if and how he could be believed in Congressional testimony given his record.  Abrams became indignant in the session; however, he should be happy that all he faced is a few questions about his tawdry history.  Of course, Abrams is a darling of the neocons and we can expect a push-back--not on him, but on the questioner.  

    Lyndon LaRouche has died. (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 08:41:54 PM EST
    He, like Bone Spurs, believed climate change to be a hoax.

    I remember - quite unhappily - when (none / 0) (#155)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 10:09:54 PM EST
    in the late '60s through the 1970s, goons from crazy LaRouche's crazy "National Caucus of Labor Committees" (later, the "U.S. Labor Party") moved from being merely disruptive and distracting to actually attacking peaceful progressive (anti-war, pro-civil rights) demonstrators with bats and metal pipes. He later developed into a right-wing, conspiracy-mongering, anti-semitic cult figure. And made a nice living at it, apparently, dying yesterday at 96.

    They are called (none / 0) (#167)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 09:01:17 AM EST
    "Trumpsters" now.

    I hadn't realized that he was... (none / 0) (#177)
    by desertswine on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 01:02:56 PM EST
    among the living.

    Watching BIRDBOX (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 11:12:12 AM EST
    While I make lunch.  SO f'ing good.

    Sandra Bullock is an under rated actor

    Yes, amusingly so. (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 10:12:10 AM EST
    And speaking of amusing, check out this adorable owl video. Personally, I think owls are just the coolest birds, and never more so than when one of them snatches a cute little bunny rabbit from the clutches of a cat, and then flies off with it in its talons to later be devoured at its leisure.

    Finally got back (none / 0) (#1)
    by ragebot on Fri Feb 08, 2019 at 08:27:14 PM EST
    from the boat.  I am buying a new mainsail and the guy at the loft wanted measurements.  Not nearly as easy as I thought.  Had to raise the dinghy anchor line to the mast head with the anchor on it to measure the mast rake.  Also measure the luff with a string to the top of the mast.  Then raise the main sail to measure the foot on the boom.  Measure all the full battens length.  Also a lot of smaller measurements on the reefing points and the reefing strap.  Several other measurements on the clew and end of the boom.

    I checked with a couple of local lofts in Florida.  One builds the sails in Stuart and wanted around $US9,800 for a panel cut main with Dacron.  Another Florida loft has their sails built in Asia and they wanted $US5,400.  Found a loft that seems to be based in the US to import but everything else is in Asia.  They wanted $US3,100 for a TriRadial Challenge Warp Drive (that is a brand name) main.

    It will take 4-8 weeks no matter where I buy it so looks like I am stuck in port for a while.

    I feel like I am in a Jimmy Buffet song

    There's a cowboy in the jungle
    And he looks so out of place
    With his shrimp skin boots and his cheap Cheroots
    And his skin as white as paste

    Better to be stuck in port (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Feb 08, 2019 at 11:08:39 PM EST
    than here on Desolation Row.

    Although this is where (none / 0) (#3)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Feb 08, 2019 at 11:15:51 PM EST
    In high school (none / 0) (#12)
    by ragebot on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 10:30:07 AM EST
    my debate partner my junior year was an illegitimate Cuban refugee who's Dad was a German businessman on vacation to Cuba.  He dropped out of school and went to Columbia.  After I graduated from high school I flew to Bogota for his wedding.  I had been a busboy over the summer and was basically broke.  So it was a shock when he warned me to be careful on the streets since I was a rich man.  When I questioned him why he thought that he said 'you are wearing glasses so you obviously are rich'.

    It is all to easy for Americans to not be aware of how we are viewed by the rest of the world.


    An unprecedented winter storm ... (none / 0) (#19)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 09:29:18 PM EST
    ... is headed our way from up north, with hurricane-force winds of 75+ m.p.h. and lots of rain expected. It's a good thing I had all the trees trimmed in our yard this week. Temperatures have been in the mid-to-low 50s at night this week, and in the low 40s up at Volcano. I know that sounds like balmy conditions to most of you caught in the polar grip right now, but keep in mind that we live only 19 degrees north of the equator. Even in January, our average temperature is in the high 60s / low 70s at night. We're not used to this. These have been a very wet last twelve months, even for a town like Hilo, which averages 130 inches of rain annually.

    Rivers here are at or above flood stages (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 10:26:29 PM EST
    2-4 more inches of rain in the next few days.  And we are not even in the rainy season.  The spring here is when there are usually always floods.

    People are very worried.  Fortunately I live on a big hill.


    I'm going to be 58 next week. (none / 0) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 09, 2019 at 11:35:33 PM EST
    In all those years, I've never seen it rain as intensely as it did first in east Honolulu last April, in which we had a 15-inch microburst in a 2-1/2 hour period, and then in Hilo last August, when we received over 50 inches in three days thanks to Hurricane Lane. Both events caused significant flooding in both communities.

    Seattle received a snowfall yesterday afternoon that was greater than the city's average aggregate amount for an entire year, with a lot more on the way. Los Angeles' rain totals this season are 204% of its yearly average. Ski resorts throughout the Sierra Nevada have been forced to close because the snowfall has been in such prodigious amounts that nobody can get up there. I-80 between Sacramento and Reno is closed, as is I-5 over the Grapevine between L.A. and Bakersfield.

    All across the country, prevailing weather patterns have indeed been far from the norm over these past 10-15 years. Only those who specialize in perpetual denial of the obvious refuse to acknowledge that.

    Hope it doesn't get too bad in your neck of the woods.


    Well, I can count this winter storm ... (none / 0) (#69)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 04:48:17 PM EST
    ... as something else I've never seen out here before now. We had wind gusts above 100 m.p.h., and one such gust early Sunday morning was clocked at 191 m.p.h. on Mauna Kea. Both Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea are snowcapped down to the 6,500 ft. level, and it's been so cold here that we've actually busted out some of the warmer clothes we take with us to the mainland on winter trips. With the wind chill factored in, it feels like it's below 50. BRRRRR!!

    It's been raining here non-stop (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 04:58:52 PM EST
    For 4 days.  Nonstop.

    the little wet weather thing that runs through my backyard has been an on and off white water

    Check out a map.  No end in sight.  And the rainy season starts in about a month.


    Another snowy day in the PNW. (none / 0) (#75)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 05:42:58 PM EST
    Turning to a cold rain later.

    I'm getting more than a little concerned about being able 1. get to SeaTac and 2. actually being able to fly home on Thursday.


    The good news is (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 05:55:15 PM EST
    It's been raining for 4 days and I haven't lost DirecTV service once.

    Until 12:00am CST, Tue Feb 12

    Action Recommended: Avoid the subject event as per the instructions
    Issued by: Little Rock - AR, US, National Weather Service,

    From 12:00pm CST, Mon Feb 11 until 9:00pm CST, Wed Feb 13

    Action Recommended: Avoid the subject event as per the instructions
    Issued by: Little Rock - AR, US, National Weather Service,

    Thank you Jesus for my big hill


    Different view (none / 0) (#79)
    by ragebot on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 06:58:47 PM EST
    Blackface link (none / 0) (#27)
    by ragebot on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 02:20:48 PM EST
    Blackface link that I found (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 03:17:21 PM EST
    not the least bit funny. But extremely informative.

    Interesting (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 04:38:16 PM EST
    A child might be required to play a minstrel in school, where curriculums derived from state guides featured plays and music selected by the Works Progress Administration.

    I heard something I did not know or at least didn't d not realize the significance of yesterday.

    The first feature length movie made in America was BIRTH OF A NATION

    The first talking movie was THE JAZZ SINGER


    Criminal Defense Site (none / 0) (#32)
    by thomas rogan on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 05:16:14 PM EST
    Is there going to be analysis of the case of Justin Fairfax, whether he should resign, whether there should be hearings, should it come up in an impeachment or not?  Maybe he's being wrongfully accused, for all we know.  People here were vociferous enough about Kavanaugh.

    There are no criminal charges (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 06:20:38 PM EST
    against Fairfax, and will not (cannot) be, because of the statute of limitations. The issue is whether he can or should continue as Lieutenant Governor of Virginia based on these accusations from his student days. That's a political question, not a criminal law or constitutional rights question. (Basically the same thing I kept saying about Kavanaugh, btw, when his defenders (who generally care not a whit for criminal justice) demanded due process and invoked the presumption of innocence.) Fairfax's call for an FBI investigation of the charges against himself is a political ploy also, imho. The charges are not within the FBI's jurisdiction. (The rapes he's accused of having committed were not federal crimes, even if they occurred, and he is not a federal official now. As a lawyer, I'm pretty sure he understands this, and knows what the "F" in "FBI" stands for.)

    Who would investigate (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 06:33:26 PM EST
    Surely someone could.  Is that the states responsibility?

    No police agency should investigate (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 07:03:31 PM EST
    because it is clear as day that the statute of limitations for criminal charges has expired. As a political matter, it is possible that the VA legislature (is that still called the House of Burgesses?) has authority to consider impeachment, depending on what the Virginia state (Commonwealth) Constitution says, which of course I know nothing about.

    I don't know--am not a lawyer (none / 0) (#175)
    by thomas rogan on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 12:42:37 PM EST
    https:/masslawyersweekly.com/welcome-ad?retUrl=2019/02/14/suffolk-da-prepared-to-review-fairfax-c ase

    You cannot post a link at TalkLeft (none / 0) (#176)
    by Peter G on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    that way. Also, if you seriously want a response, please say what you think is found at or learned from that link.

    The (none / 0) (#178)
    by ragebot on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 01:23:52 PM EST
    15-year statute of limitations for what Fairfax is accused of runs till spring or early summer.  Seems the LEOs/DAs are willing to talk to Tyson about it.

    Been on TV since last night.  Here is the first link I have found but there are probably more.


    Well, that's interesting, if indeed (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Peter G on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 03:26:44 PM EST
    there is an applicable and unexpired statute of limitations for criminal charges. I had (foolishly, I guess) wrongly assumed otherwise.

    Others weren't "vociferous" ... (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Yman on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 08:27:18 AM EST
    ... about the Kavanaugh accusations, but preferred to lie/smear the victims ("... may have a face made for radio", etc.).  FYI - There are no criminal charges against Fairfax and he's not being interviewed for a lifetime appointment on the SC.  But you already know that.

    There should be an investigation (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 05:20:21 PM EST
    Next question

    sorry I haven't been (none / 0) (#40)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 06:45:00 PM EST
    following any criminal cases in the news besides El Chapo for the past few months. A lieutenant governor of a small east coast state is outside my interest range -- and much different than a Supreme Court Justice. Also, I spent the better part of a few months in Virginia filming a movie on a possible wrongful conviction there in 2000 (Was Justice Denied? for TNT)-- happily the woman was later found by the courts to be innocent and released from prison, but there's nothing about the state I find particularly newsworthy.

    Sounds interesting (none / 0) (#42)
    by McBain on Sun Feb 10, 2019 at 07:05:01 PM EST
    but I'm waiting for some details on Rest In Power.  Did you watch the finished product?  

    "Small east coast state"? (none / 0) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 03:45:08 AM EST
    FYI, Jeralyn, Virginia is the 11th largest state in the Union by population, with an estimated 8,517,685 residents as of July 1, 2018. OTOH, your home state of Colorado is but two-thirds Virginia's size and ranks no. 22, with an estimated population of 5,695,564.

    Colorado has a land mass... (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 03:46:16 PM EST
    of 104,185 square miles. Virginia is only 42,775 square miles.

    QED - small east coast state.


    So....... (none / 0) (#93)
    by Zorba on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 11:51:21 AM EST
    Land mass counts more than people?
    Get back to me when mountains and prairies can vote.

    Virginia's bigger than Colorado. (none / 0) (#113)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 09:09:16 PM EST
    Sagebrush and Rocky Mountain peaks don't pay taxes.

    More people also live on the island of Oahu (597 sq. mi.; 992,605 pop.) than in the entire State of Alaska (663,267 sq. mi.; 735,795 pop.). Glaciers don't vote; they melt.

    Just sayin', I don't think you want to sound like one of those Republicans who take pride in meaningless maps like this.



    Virginia is more populous than Colorado (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Peter G on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 09:42:12 PM EST
    But Colorado is bigger. Seriously, Donald. "Big" -- as applied to places -- is a description of size, not of population. Nor of anything subjective, like political importance. It's not like asking who has a bigger family (more people, not more pounds), or a bigger bank account (more money), or a bigger heart (more compassion, not a more capacious aorta). Context matters in language. To say Colorado is bigger than Virginia is not to say it has more votes or anything else than that it encompasses more acreage. What a silly argument.

    If you refer to my original comment #51, ... (none / 0) (#186)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 08:55:17 AM EST
    ... which was in response to Jeralyn, I specifically noted that Virginia is the 11th largest state in the union by population. Her initial and dismissive characterization of Virginia as a "small east coast state" clearly implies its insignificance, when that commonwealth is really anything but that.

    By her measure, would you similarly characterize your own home state of Pennsylvania as a "small east coast state," since its area by square mile is roughly comparable to that of Virginia and likewise less than half that of Colorado? And for that matter, is the city of New York (pop. 8,622,698) therefore a "small city"?

    Seriously, Peter. Context does matter.


    I wasn't responding to how the thread started (none / 0) (#195)
    by Peter G on Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 12:57:26 PM EST
    as much as to how it developed. But let's call it quits now, ok?

    Give the gentleman (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by desertswine on Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 03:26:48 PM EST
    Comments (none / 0) (#60)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 12:30:33 PM EST
    on this matter in earlier threads.

    Amy will be on Rachel tonight (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 04:17:45 PM EST
    I would expect "mean mommy" issues will be explored

    The potential and (none / 0) (#71)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 05:01:33 PM EST
    declared Democratic candidates sure have a bad flaw (singular).  As Chuck Todd says the Democrats are in disarray because bothsiderism.

    Fortunately (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 05:04:06 PM EST
    Chuck is a moron and in spite of his best efforts we are not at all in disarray

    Cold open (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 05:08:01 PM EST
    MTP with Chuck, Peggy Noonan and Gene Robinson.  Who I have to admit I had no issue with until his history of VA slavery this morning.

    Cold open on Bezos privates


    They portray Peggy (none / 0) (#81)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 11:37:06 PM EST
    as some sort of connoisseur, but I bet she hasn't thought about penises since Reagan died.

    I saw an (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 05:28:48 PM EST
    encouraging analysis where Democrats felt there was not a great difference between positions among potential and declared candidates and were putting forward the criterion of electability... even if not their favorite at the moment.

    The Todd's should be silent about flaws such as mean or, mercy. me, a prosecutor, or a Naytive American legacy....and wait until Amy or Elizabeth are dating a porn star and having a felonious personal lawyer pay for their silence.


    Virtual caucuses? (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 06:48:20 PM EST
    Does this make the caucus process slightly less stupid?

    I honestly don't know

    Iowa Democrats propose major 2020 change: `Virtual caucuses'

    They were (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 11, 2019 at 07:13:57 PM EST
    supposed to do mail in ballots. Yes, this is stupid because not everyone can "virtual caucus" but everybody can fill out a piece of paper.  

    El Chapo verdict is in. (none / 0) (#87)
    by caseyOR on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 11:16:08 AM EST
    According to MSNBC, the jury in the El Chapo case has reached a verdict. We don't know what it is yet, but the verdict is in.

    Guilty (none / 0) (#91)
    by Zorba on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 11:47:25 AM EST
    He was found guilty on all counts.

    Trouble for Harris (none / 0) (#94)
    by ragebot on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 01:06:47 PM EST
    Of course (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 03:58:14 PM EST
    you silly snoop sisters are going to obsess over something like that. Just love the smarm that is reeking from Republicans these days.

    If only she had done it with the Russians then you would advocate voting for her.


    More swift boat garbage? (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by Yman on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 05:59:09 PM EST
    You wingers are funny.  You forgot a critical part from your winger source:

    Update: The Huffington Post, among other sources, question whether Harris was talking about what music she listened in college or whether she was answering a more general question of what sort of music she likes. Due to crosstalk among people on The Breakfast Club, it's not totally clear.

    And the attempt to reincarnate the Corsi smears against Kerry is pathetic.


    Thank for bothering to say this (none / 0) (#131)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 06:14:02 PM EST
    This is going to be something

    I was just reading this on SLATE

    A Veep Joke About Leg-Shaving Was Inspired by a Rumor About Amy Klobuchar

    When this gutter garbage starts being used by leftie websites and HBO comedies .....

    I don't know how to finish that.

    About the legs, even if it's true who cares.  If I had an assistant 20 years ago they should have definitely shaved my back.


    Oh my god (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 01:54:40 PM EST
    It's truly over for her.

    I am so deeply appalled and offended.


    That was snark (5.00 / 5) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 01:55:36 PM EST
    If it wasn't clear

    Harris may have 99 problems.  That ain't one.


    This OTOH (none / 0) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 02:01:56 PM EST
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 03:55:36 PM EST
    I agree. Something that happened in the DAs office is going to be a bigger problem for her than some stupid Snoop Dogg story.

    That is pretty funny. (none / 0) (#98)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 02:38:47 PM EST
    one of the comments (none / 0) (#103)
    by ragebot on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 05:22:09 PM EST
    was even funnier

    If you got high in college listening to Milli Vanilli and Paula Abdul, you'd be ashamed and lie, too.


    The stupidest things.

    OMG! Kamala smoked pot! (none / 0) (#114)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 09:11:44 PM EST
    Stop the presses.

    Nope. That ain't it, as you know. (none / 0) (#120)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 11:02:37 AM EST

    1. Is a big ol' Pander Bear
    2. Is lying
    3. Prosecuted MJ users/crimes and actively opposed marijuana legalization during her time as California Attorney General

    Is this the death knell of her campaign?

    I think not.

    Is it legit funny and revelatory?

    I think so.


    A person who uses mj (none / 0) (#121)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 12:56:31 PM EST
    and then turns around and goes out of her way to stick it to mj users strikes me as someone who's mercenary and empathy deficient.

    Not to put too fine a point on it.


    A fair observation. (none / 0) (#122)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 02:37:54 PM EST
    Well, what do we like to say? (none / 0) (#123)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 03:17:57 PM EST
    don't make perfect the enemy of the slightly-above-average.

    That's easy for us to say. (none / 0) (#187)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 09:26:53 AM EST
    But when one takes the oath of office as a district / state's / prosecuting attorney or a state / federal attorney general, one swears to faithfully defend, uphold and execute the laws of the United States and he state /commonwealth in which one resides.

    Nowhere in that oath is there a caveat, included or implied, that you need only enforce and / or defend those ordinances and statutes with which you're in general agreement, and can therefore reinterpret, ignore or dismiss those which you might otherwise find objectionable in all or in part for whatever your reason.

    Now, that's not to say a given law on the books can't be obsolete, unjust or just plain old stupid. But that law is still the law until it is otherwise revisited by legislators and amended or repealed, or reviewed by judges and declared unconstitutional.



    Well, yes and no (none / 0) (#196)
    by Peter G on Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 12:59:56 PM EST
    Every prosecutor adopts and implements enforcement priorities, and exercises substantial discretion in carrying out her duties. By no means is it as simple as "the law's the law."

    Are we doing this now? (none / 0) (#200)
    by ruffian on Sun Feb 17, 2019 at 10:29:56 AM EST
    Obsessing over a candidate's memory of who she heard on the radio 25 years ago while she was getting high?

    I don't think this one has legs folks.


    Do we have any (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 05:17:08 PM EST
    WALKING DEAD fans?

    Used to watch (none / 0) (#107)
    by MKS on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 07:42:16 PM EST
    Yes! (none / 0) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 07:59:40 PM EST
    Be curious when you stopped.  They lost me, tho I had been losing interest for a while, when they did not kill Negan.

    That was it for me.  The last straw for obvious plot devices.  A. It was not believable.  B. If they actually did it they are to stupid to live and don't deserve to survive.

    I just sort of FFed through the last season because the teasers for the new season looked good.

    The season ended (I trust I'm not spoiling anything judging from the response) with Negan escaping.

    Seriously ?

    That was it.  I'm done.

    Which is sad it was once so good.


    PS (none / 0) (#109)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 08:00:40 PM EST
    I don't  care what happened in the books.

    It was stupid.


    Ha (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 08:15:06 PM EST
    Just decided to look for support for my opinion.

    I typed in "walking dead has...

    And it finished with

    .....jumped the shark"

    As the first choice.

    They just jumped the shark


    Btw (none / 0) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 08:22:02 PM EST
    They decide this for the precisely opposite reasons I listed.


    Whatever.  I hope it gets cancelled.


    Stopped watching (none / 0) (#124)
    by MKS on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 04:31:32 PM EST
    at the beginning of season where Jeffrey Dean Morgan was going to kill one of the captured with a ghastly cudgel.

    Just lost interest somehow.  It struck me as allegory in the beginning as settlers fighting Indians (the walkers) in the Old West.


    Made it one more season (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 04:45:16 PM EST
    Than you.

    He did that, two main/loved characters the red haired guy and Glenn the asian, and a lot of other ghastly things, they defeated him at the end of the season at great cost and didn't kill him.

    After all the other people killed for so much less.

    Disbelief unsuspended.


    The Netflix series KINGDOM (none / 0) (#185)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 07:12:03 PM EST
    Is a beautiful and better take on the subject.

    Set in feudal Korea. 6 episodes with another season coming



    DEADWOOD fans (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 09:00:19 PM EST
    The movie is finally coming this year

    why I decided to finally binge

    Al/Ian (none / 0) (#165)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 08:26:57 AM EST
    Ian McShane: Return to 'Deadwood' was a 'surreal, out-of-body' experience

    Filming was completed in December. HBO last year targeted a spring premiere, but no date has been announced.


    Also a Breaking Bad movie (or series, not entirely clear) coming


    I'll watch the Deadwood movie (none / 0) (#170)
    by McBain on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 10:14:45 AM EST
    since I enjoyed the short lived show but I really don't think we need more Breaking Bad.  That show got more and more ridiculous and we already have Better Call Saul.

    Rare good news (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 09:35:04 PM EST
    But some of them, I'm sure (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by Peter G on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 09:45:08 PM EST
    are very good people.

    They definitely look like (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 at 09:58:40 PM EST
    VERY good people.  I've been looking for the pictures I just saw on tv online.

    54 of the.  


    Breaking just now (none / 0) (#127)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 05:54:04 PM EST
    the judge sides with Mueller on Manafort's cooperation agreement on special counsel agreeing that Manafort lied. We're back to Manafort is going to die in jail.

    Beat me by (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 05:55:40 PM EST
    1.02 seconds

    On what basis do you (and Howdy) say (none / 0) (#137)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 07:55:26 PM EST
    "die in prison"? The ruling frees the prosecutors from their obligations under the cooperation plea agreement, but does not inevitably result in a particular sentence being imposed next month. The sentence, in the end, depends on a balancing of a dozen or more factors.

    Just (none / 0) (#138)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 08:02:31 PM EST
    taking into account what his age is, the fact that prison isn't a picnic and what I have read about sentence times.

    Perhaps after all this even the GOP will sign onto criminal justice reform?


    69 (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 08:09:18 PM EST
    Looking at decades in jail.

    Do the math.


    I do not see why he is sentence would be (none / 0) (#144)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 08:36:15 PM EST
    "decades" long. That is possible, but not at all likely in my experience. Plenty of defendants receive federal sentences of five years or more -- which is my definition of a "substantial sentence" -- at age 65+ and do not "die in prison."

    THINK PROGRESS (none / 0) (#145)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 08:39:29 PM EST
    Journalists like to add up the statutory maximums (none / 0) (#152)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 09:40:14 PM EST
    for all counts, and say that's what the person is "facing." It's misleading nonsense. Yes, I have had cases where the judge imposed the maximum on each count and then "ran them wild" (as prisoners say). But it's extremely rare. Not seeing it here at all.

    Rachel explained this (none / 0) (#148)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 08:42:03 PM EST
    At some length tonight.  Airs again at midnight EST

    Manafort's sentencing (none / 0) (#149)
    by caseyOR on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 09:00:26 PM EST
    range, according to former US attorney on Maddow, is 24-30 years. Manafort is 69 years old. He could live into his late 90s, but probably not.

    If the range is 24-30 years does that mean 24 years is the shortest sentence Manafort could get?


    She specifically said (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 09:07:53 PM EST
    They probably wouldn't bother to go for the charges in the second trial because they would get a sentence "longer than his natural life" already.

    Federal sentences are imposed with reference (none / 0) (#153)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 09:50:44 PM EST
    to a system of "guidelines," but the Guidelines are not mandatory. the judge still has broad discretion to "vary" from the Guidelines, so as to impose a sentence that is "sufficient but not greater than necessary" to achieve justice, after considering a list of statutory factors. In high-dollar white collar cases (and in drug cases, child p*rn cases, and a few other categories) the Guidelines notoriously recommend sentences that many federal judges consider excessive and unreasonable. Statistically, judges impose sentence within the guidelines range about 80% of the time, but in certain categories, within-Guidelines sentencing is seen in as few as 50% of the cases.

    I dont think this is a typical case (none / 0) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 09:59:11 PM EST
    What seems likely to me is they will throw all the books at him in an attempt to flip him.

    We will see.


    This cloud be important (none / 0) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 10:11:30 PM EST
    To what happens next

    Adam Schiff Just Shredded Any Hope Paul Manafort Had For A Trump Pardon

    I  think [Manafort] clearly felt that he couldn't maintain any possibility of a pardon if he was honest about what kind of a relationship the campaign had through him with this Russian intelligence-linked individual," Rep. Schiff said.

    Following the congressman's logic, it will be nearly impossible for Manafort to receive a "get out of jail free" card from Trump now that his lies have been exposed in court

    As for any federal defendant, the rules allow (none / 0) (#157)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 10:23:24 PM EST
    a year to re-think the decision not to cooperate, or allow him to cooperate further, and obtain a reduction in sentence as a reward. You are correct that judges sometimes impose a more severe sentence initially, as an incentive to defendants to cooperate and thus gain this benefit.

    You are better (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 08:13:31 AM EST
    Than Wikipedia

    Gosh, Howdy, that's one of the (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Peter G on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 09:36:33 AM EST
    nicest things anyone has ever said to me .... ;)

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but ... (none / 0) (#188)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 09:48:57 AM EST
    ... Paul Manafort betrayed his country and ours by inviting, welcoming, and aiding and abetting Russian interference in our elections. We're now paying a dreadful price for it, and we still don't know the full extent of the damage he caused us.

    Therefore, and speaking for myself only as someone whose father gave his life in service to his country, I'm not at all inclined to mitigate such willful -- and, I daresay, treasonous -- acts on Manafort's part by reasons of his advanced age or now-claimed physical infirmities.

    That greedy, self-serving and duplicitous jackwagon can die and rot in his prison cell, for all I care.



    Nooze (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 05:55:02 PM EST
    Manafort just lost in court.  The judge just said he lied and no longer deserves leniency for cooperation

    Meaning he will probably die in jail.


    Beto for senate against Cornyn.  This is a good idea.  As is Abrams running in GA.

    Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer met with former Texas Rep. Beto O'Rourke last week to discuss a possible 2020 Senate campaign against GOP Sen. John Cornyn, according to a source familiar with the meeting.

    Also (none / 0) (#132)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 06:24:24 PM EST
    Amy McGrath in KY. I hope Stacey decides not to run and somebody else runs here in GA.

    McGrath beating Mitch (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 06:31:06 PM EST
    Would be almost too good

    I know (none / 0) (#134)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 07:15:03 PM EST
    especially since he's the one that told her she couldn't be a pilot.

    Eric Holder (none / 0) (#135)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 07:28:43 PM EST
    Puzzling (none / 0) (#136)
    by NoSides on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 07:52:44 PM EST
    I have the sense that the fate of Julian Assange is of little or no interest to people on the left.

    I honestly don't understand it.

    Greek Veal Sofrito (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by Zorba on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 05:44:38 AM EST
    Ingredients - 2 pounds veal thinly sliced. 4 cloves of garlic, chopped. 1 medium onion, chopped, 1 shot glass of white wine vinegar. 1 wine glass of dry white wine. 1 bunch of fresh Italian parsley, chopped (leaves and tender stems). 1 stalk of rosemary, remove and save leaves and discard stem. 3 sage leaves, chopped. 1 teaspoon of salt. 1 teaspoon of freshly ground black pepper. Dash of cayenne pepper. 2 tablespoons of olive oil. Olive oil for frying. Flour for dredging. 2 cups or more chicken broth.

    In a large frying pan, add a little oil and bring it to a high heat. Put the flour on a large plate, dredge the strips of meat, and brown on both sides. Place in a large pot and set aside. Clean out the frying pan, add four tablespoons of oil and bring to a medium heat. Saute the garlic, onions and parsley. When the garlic starts to change color, onions are tender, and the parsley wilted, add the pepper, salt, wine, vinegar, cayenne . Stir well and pour over the meat. Add enough chicken broth to the pot to barely cover the meat. Holding the handles, shake the pot gently to mix the ingredients without stirring. At the point where it comes to a boil, add the rosemary and sage and shake the pot gently again. Lower heat to medium low, cover, and cook about an hour or so, until meat is tender.

    Serve with French fries, mashed potatoes, or oven roasted potato wedges. Plus some crusty bread and, of course, the rest of the wine.


    Julian or Julienne? (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by Jack E Lope on Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 10:14:34 AM EST
    I'll have to try a Julian's Old Fashioned some time.  (Watch out for the Burly Russian at that website, though.)

    But man does not live by cocktails alone, so here's some sustenance:
    Mushroom Julienne:
    I was going to post the recipe here, but it seems a waste of space if you're not going to appreciate it.  Many recipes can be found online by a simple search.

    I'm told that it is an adaptation of a Russian recipe - and we all thought Russian cuisine was bland, boring and weird!


    Not all (none / 0) (#191)
    by Zorba on Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 10:33:53 AM EST
    Russian cuisine consists of cabbages, beets, and potatoes.
    Mushroom Julienne is somewhat similar to veal Orloff.
    Other tasty Russian dishes are beef stroganoff, chicken Kiev, and blini.  Also quite good are pelmeni and pierozhki (not sure of the spelling on that).

    Veal Orloff ala Zorba (none / 0) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 10:47:56 AM EST

    I only made it once (none / 0) (#198)
    by Zorba on Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 05:35:19 PM EST
    It was a royal pain in the rear and I'm not making it again.

    It's basically Julia Child's recipe and it's much too long to post the whole thing here.

    But Link.


    I ate at (none / 0) (#194)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 12:04:05 PM EST
    the Russian Tea Room one time long ago. I remember it being very expensive and very good though I don't remember what I ate. LOL.

    Can't speak for "the left" (none / 0) (#139)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 08:08:00 PM EST
    I'd like his balls in a jar on my mantel

    better on (none / 0) (#141)
    by leap on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 08:10:49 PM EST
    your mantel than mine. Oh, wait, I don't have a mantel.

    Me either (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 08:11:40 PM EST
    But I would install one for his balls

    Do you have a top? (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 08:18:29 PM EST
    Or bottom?

    This is not a silly question (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 15, 2019 at 10:50:48 AM EST
    NoSides and no top or bottom would suggest we are dealing with a commenting singularity

    You may remember my comparisons to this commenter (in its former incarnation) as a black hole sucking in everything that engages it.

    Jus sayin


    In the immortal lyrics of Tim Rice (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by ruffian on Sun Feb 17, 2019 at 10:32:50 AM EST
    in the musical "Chess"

    Nobody's on nobody's side

    One (none / 0) (#160)
    by NoSides on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 07:39:59 AM EST
    person answers with a recipe.

    Another answers with a disgusting image of male genitalia that he (or she) would like to have in their home.

    In any case, there is no interest or compassion here for a publisher who is being persecuted. In fact, there is only a level of hostility I would expect from the far right.

    And, as I said, it is puzzling to me.


    Moussaka (5.00 / 5) (#166)
    by Zorba on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 08:35:02 AM EST
    2 Tbs olive oil
    1 1/2 lbs ground lamb or half lamb half ground beef
    1/2 cup chopped onion
    3 cloves garlic, chopped
    1/2 cup red wine
    8 ounces tomato sauce
    2 Tbs chopped Italian parsley
    1/2 tsp ground cinnamon
    Salt and freshly ground black pepper to taste
    3 lbs eggplant
    4 to 6 Tbs olive oil
    1 recipe Béchamel sauce (see below)
    1 cup bread crumbs
    2 cups grated kefalotyri cheese, or use Parmesan or Romano
    3 Tbs melted butter

    Heat the 2 tablespoons of olive oil in a large skillet over moderate heat. Add the chopped meat and onion and garlic and brown, stirring frequently to crumble the meat. Add the wine, parsley, cinnamon, salt, and pepper, and bring to a boil. Reduce the heat to low and simmer, partly covered, for 30 minutes, until most of the liquid has been reduced. Meanwhile, peel and cut the eggplant into slices 1/2 inch (1 cm) thick and arrange on baking sheets. Brush both sides with olive oil and bake in a preheated 350F (180C) oven for 25 to 30 minutes, until the eggplant is tender. Arrange half the eggplant slices in the bottom of a medium-sized baking dish. Sprinkle with half the bread crumbs and 1/2 cup of cheese. Spread the meat mixture over the eggplant, followed by another 1/2 cup of cheese. Add another layer of eggplant, followed by the béchamel. Sprinkle the remaining Parmesan and bread crumbs on top, add another grating of nutmeg on top, and drizzle with the melted butter. Bake in a preheated 350F (180C) oven for 30 to 40 minutes, until the top is lightly browned. Serves 6 to 8.

    6 Tbs butter
    8 Tbs flour
    4 cups milk
    Salt and white pepper to taste
    A grating of fresh nutmeg
    Two eggs

    Melt the butter in a saucepan over moderate heat. Stir in the flour and cook for 3 to 5 minutes, until it has lost the floury aroma. Do not allow to brown. Add the milk and stir, making sure to dissolve any lumps that have formed. Heat, stirring frequently, until the sauce comes to a simmer and becomes thick. Add the salt, pepper, 1/2 cup cheese, and nutmeg. Beat the eggs. Let the sauce cool a bit, then add a little of it at a time to the eggs, beating all the while, until about two cups has been incorporated, then slowly pour this back into the pot, still beating the whole time. Makes 4 cups.


    Free on-line puzzles! (5.00 / 3) (#168)
    by leap on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 09:12:59 AM EST
    My macaroni and cheese (5.00 / 3) (#171)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 10:40:15 AM EST
    ...costs me about $35 to make.  It includes bacon, Gruyere, Bleu Cheese and Cheddar.

    I hope that you are (none / 0) (#182)
    by desertswine on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 04:56:47 PM EST
    writing these recipes down.  They are classic and you'll be missing something special if you don't.

    Most are available on a website (none / 0) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 05:00:25 PM EST
    Contact either of us

    Desertswine (none / 0) (#184)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 05:01:58 PM EST
    I mean.

    House Judiciary (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 13, 2019 at 09:12:25 PM EST
    Just passed background checks.  Now on to the full house.  First gun legislation, per Lawerence, since 1993.

    The NRA (none / 0) (#161)
    by ragebot on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 07:40:01 AM EST
    has long supported background checks.  Problem is the Senate has to pass the bill and then the prez sign it.  Not sure it is going anywhere.

    Same thing for the 'Green Deal Bill' the Senate is voting on.

    In fact it would be interesting to know how many bills pass one chamber and fail, or never see the light of day, in the other chamber.

    Bills like this are a big reason Congress is in such disfavor.  The pols spend more time running around in circles than doing the real business of government.

    When was the last time there was a real budget and not a CR.  How many of the bills that do pass are stuff like renaming a post office or pandering to nonsense issues that mean nothing.


    This is one of the issues (5.00 / 3) (#163)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 08:03:23 AM EST
    Democrats were elected to deal with.  You are going to see them passing lots of other things that will not pass the senate.  Then they will run on those thing in 2020.

    And of course people like you will spread the "bothsider" bullshi+ as wide and deep as they can to try to convince the mouth breathers that passing something 90% of the country wants and they were elected to pass is EXACTLY like having a show vote for something they hate that they believe will embarrass democrats after they spread all the bullshi+ they possibly can about what it actually says.

    I'm happy to see how well that works for both sides.

    I don't think the idea of a green new deal will be the "golden goose" Mitch thinks it will.


    The NRA (5.00 / 4) (#172)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 10:43:39 AM EST
    ..acts as a conduit for Russian money to the GOP.  That is why Russia, operating through its cutout the NRA, owns the GOP Congress.

    The PRESIDENT of the NRA is a known traitor, Ollie North.

    There is nothing good to be said about the NRA by a patriotic American.


    My favorite part (none / 0) (#173)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 11:01:10 AM EST
    has long supported background checks

    So republicans just hate background checks so much they defy their funders

    You just have to laugh


    Baa Waa Waa (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Feb 14, 2019 at 03:52:35 PM EST
    go shop the NRA has always supported background checks to Cult 45. We were around when the NRA fought against the Brady Bill.