Monday Open Thread

I'm out and about in the snow, which is already melting. Our last open thread is full, so here's a new one, all topics welcome.

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    New election in the UK they say (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 09:30:18 AM EST
    Once upon a time I thought a parliamentary system was better than ours.

    Not so sure.  Watching Israel and the UK have political spasms.  And really they are not facing the kind of existential threat we are with Trump.

    We are all dealing with some version of toxic nationalism.

    Canada just squeaked by.

    The next few months will be interesting.  And not just here.

    A few Israelis might disagree with you ... (none / 0) (#26)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 01:38:29 PM EST
    ... about Bibi Netanyahu not being an existential threat. In my honest opinion, Israel was enveloped by its own dust clouds and lost its way the moment a right-wing assassin's bullet cut down Prime Minister Yitzak Rabin in November 1995.

    Props to Liz Cheney. (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 05:42:35 PM EST
    In her admonition of GOPers questioning the patriotism and loyalty of Lt.Col. Vindman. And trust me, I have zero love for Liz Cheney. I find her reprehensible most of the time.

    On this subject, I am finding myself becoming increasing agitated by this message being put out by orange jesus and his minions that if you are anti-trump, you are somehow anti-American. The increase in calling into question someone's loyalty to country because of disloyalty to this abomination in the White House is really ticking me off. A lot!

    Luckily, I travel in small circles. I have little contact with people anymore since my mobility has become limited. I go to work about three days a week. I may actually interact with no more than 3 or 4 people all day. But if someone questioned my loyalty to my country due to my complete contempt for orange jesus, I am afraid they would more than likely get a very violent reaction. And I walk with a cane. Nice to have a weapon always handy.

    Yes (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 05:58:05 PM EST
    That's the worst part.  
    Good for Liz.  It sounds like the panic might be because he has additional information about the call represented by those "..."

    Despite their bellicose rhetoric, ... (none / 0) (#33)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 06:22:51 PM EST
    ... I think a number of congressional Republicans  are likely preparing themselves for that moment when cutting Trump loose will be necessary if they want to save themselves. Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy might have trouble keeping his caucus together.

    Do you have (none / 0) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 06:57:00 PM EST
    any idea who these reps might be because frankly I am not seeing it. I think the ones that have said they are not running again will definitely vote for impeachment but the rest?

    I think D has a point (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 07:03:25 PM EST
    Trump has his toadies but cracks are happening.  Liz is a good example.  

    I think it's starting to dawn on everyone that this really could be a first in history kind of thing.  And what that could mean.

    I understand why they are terrified

    It's terrifying


    We likely won't see it until the articles of impeachment are brought to the floor for a vote. Because that's going to be the defining vote.

    I'm just speculating, of course, but if the evidence of Trump's conduct is as overwhelming as we've been led to believe, I'd venture that as many as 40-50 House Republicans may break ranks. Their careers will depend on it.

    Or, maybe they'll all just be as stupid as ever, and decide to go the way of "Thelma and Louise."



    I don't expect many republicans (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 30, 2019 at 09:26:28 AM EST
    On the early votes.  Maybe some for the articles after public hearings.

    Voting present might be popular


    NYTmes just now (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 08:26:07 PM EST
    Vindman tried and failed to add key details to rough transcript of Trump call

    The devil is on the details


    Yes Chuck0 and walking with two canes (none / 0) (#34)
    by fishcamp on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 06:23:42 PM EST
    Is even better.  I've had to use canes several times after ski injuries and hip operations.  You can get going much faster with two canes than with crutches, and you can bat people out of the way if necessary..  sorry to hear you have to use a cane.

    I understand (none / 0) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 06:55:05 PM EST
    how you feel but frankly at this point they don't bother me. Maybe it is because I live among so many Trumpers that I've gotten thick skin or what but I look them in the eye and tell them I don't accept definitions of patriotism from treason weasels.

    I'm also walking with a cane (none / 0) (#40)
    by Peter G on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 07:15:37 PM EST
    at the moment. But hopefully some not-too-serious knee surgery right before Thanksgiving will get me back on my bicycle.

    I was on crutches for over a week. (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 09:09:45 PM EST
    But now I've got a walking boot, which I've got to wear for another four weeks. Just saw the orthopedist at Hilo Medical Center this afternoon, and my leg seems to be healing nicely.

    ago. Separate operations, 6 months apart.

    My doc was very reluctant to prescribe pain meds upon my release. Although he was quick to quadruple my prescription when I called him in agony in the wee hours of the morning.

    Anyway, you probably will only need the meds for a day or two, so don't be shy about insisting that you don't want to spend hour after hour in writhing in pain.


    "Props to Liz Cheney" (none / 0) (#48)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 08:24:29 PM EST
    Oh man, you may be right, but it is hard to read that....She is a bad egg imo.

    Agree, (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by KeysDan on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 09:35:22 PM EST
    Doubt it was the taking of umbrage at the attack on the Colonel's patriotism.  As we know from the attack on the patriotism of Senator Max Cleland, a grievously  injured veteran, that would be of no concern if it was thought to play well.  Instant feedback must have been grim, sending Ms. Cheney, flanked by her Republican cohorts, out for damage control.  

    Didn't mean to suggest (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 30, 2019 at 07:55:54 AM EST
    Anything but damage control.  But that's still a crack in this case.  
    FOX doesn't do anything without Trumps approval.  You know that stuff cam straight from the White House.  
    Rocket science is not required by lawmakers to see this was a bad plan.  

    Expect more cracks.  Yesterday Trump said stop talking about process and defend me on substance.
    Looking forward to that.

    Also there is increasing talk that Trump will force and government funding shutdown to distract from his other bad news.
    Hard to imagine republican law makers being thrilled about that.

    I expect more and better cracks.


    Take that, Erdogan (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by Peter G on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 07:56:41 PM EST
    The House finally condemns the Armenian genocide of 1915. Better late than never. Current events opened the door.

    ... from issuing a statement condemning Russia for the seizure of Ukrainian naval vessels in the Sea of Azov in November 2018, because of course Trump would do that since he's obviously an agent for the Kremlin.

    Gordon Sondland... (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by desertswine on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 12:39:52 AM EST
    All those bald guys (none / 0) (#75)
    by leap on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 08:26:19 AM EST
    look like penii.

    There is good penii (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 09:46:08 AM EST
    And bad penii

    Vin Diesel - Gordon Sonland


    There is something so incredibly wrong ... (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 03:52:11 PM EST
    ... on so many levels about the slut-shaming of Rep. Katie Hill (D-CA) at the collective hands of her vengeful soon-to-be former husband, an opportunistic bunch of crass GOP political operatives and a salacious male-dominated GOP social media network. Former GOP Congressman Steve Knight should not be allowed to capitalize on it.

    Wow! (none / 0) (#90)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 08:59:41 AM EST
    Here I thought sleeping with your congressional staff underlings was a big no no in the MeToo era.  So Nancy asked for resignation on account of a divorcing hubby and GOP operatives!!!  Yikes!!!!

    FYI, Rep. Hill has adamantly denied ... (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 01:47:45 PM EST
    ... any personal relationship with any member of her congressional staff. She's acknowledged an "inappropriate" relationship with a member of her campaign staff last year before she was elected.

    That's not the same thing. Congress last year adopted rules prohibiting personal relationships between members and staff. Of course, that hasn't yet prompted Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) to offer his own resignation, even though he's presently under federal indictment for misusue of campaign funds, some of which were allegedly spent to facilitate his sexual liaisons with House staff members.

    Further, Speaker Pelosi did not request Hill's resignation; in fact, she asked her to remain in office. Hill is leaving office of her own volition.

    If you're going to comment on such issues here, please do at least make an effort to inform yourself first as to the facts of the matter at hand before taking to the keyboard.



    Dude (none / 0) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 09:31:41 AM EST
    the people doing the slut shaming at the GOP who certainly don't care about people having affairs. oddly enough though this slut shaming they do never seems to apply to Melania and she is called "classy" by them despite all the nudes on the internet.

    You guys are hilarious (none / 0) (#112)
    by Yman on Sat Nov 02, 2019 at 01:47:37 PM EST
    Pretending that allegations she's denied ("sleeping with your congressional staff underlings") are facts and just making $hit up ("So Nancy asked for resignation") out of tinfoil and pretending it's real, all the while supporting a POTUS who $exually assaults multiple women and openly promotes conspiracy theories and has lied over 13,000 times.

    Guess lying and ignoring hypocrisy is easier than dealing with facts.


    I love this (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 03:41:37 PM EST
    Rats love driving tiny cars

    If you're going to teach rats to drive, first you need to build them a car (or Rat Operated Vehicle). The chassis and powertrain came from a robot car kit, and a transparent plastic food container provided the body. Explaining the idea of a steering wheel and pedals to rats was probably too difficult, so the controls were three copper wires stretched across an opening cut out of the front of the bodywork and an aluminum plate on the floor. When a rat stood on the plate and gripped a copper bar, a circuit was completed and the motors engaged; one bar made the car turn to the left, one made it turn to the right, and the third made it go straight ahead.

    The video is great

    Love this (none / 0) (#103)
    by CST on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 05:18:32 PM EST
    The mouse and the motorcycle was one of my favorite books as a kid.  Not too far off!

    The Beautiful Wall (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by KeysDan on Sat Nov 02, 2019 at 01:48:44 PM EST
    Smugglers have been sawing through brand-new sections of Trump's border wall using common cordless power tools. Gaps are cut through the bollards so as to permit people and drug lords to pass through.  We saw this coming.

    Happy Birthday, MileHi! (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by vml68 on Wed Nov 06, 2019 at 05:42:03 PM EST
    I hope you had a wonderful day.

    And, an early Happy Birthday to you, CaptHowdy and you, KeysDan.

    I hope your birthdays turn out to be all that you wished for and more!

    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 06, 2019 at 06:09:54 PM EST
    And the same to all

    Thank you so much. (5.00 / 2) (#186)
    by KeysDan on Wed Nov 06, 2019 at 08:09:39 PM EST
    My day is November 12.  Birthday wishes to all TL Scorpios.

    And thank you as well for all of the next sign (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by fishcamp on Wed Nov 06, 2019 at 09:26:06 PM EST
    Sagittarius.  My day is December 2nd.

    It's the (5.00 / 3) (#192)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 07, 2019 at 09:06:57 AM EST
    Scorpio/Sagittarius birthday season, so Birthday greetings are in order.  Happy Birthday---May the fish bite more and the mosquitos less!  

    Hopefully (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by jmacWA on Thu Nov 07, 2019 at 05:04:38 AM EST
    whichever one of us TL Scorpios gets election day next year will get the kind of present I got this year... nice Democratic gains across the board

    And not the kind I got in 2016 (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 07, 2019 at 06:03:36 AM EST

    Now that I know (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by jmacWA on Thu Nov 07, 2019 at 06:36:56 AM EST
    the exact date, I will expect you to respect your elder :)

    It really was (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 07, 2019 at 07:34:13 AM EST
    The worst birthday ever

    Yes, it was. (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by vml68 on Thu Nov 07, 2019 at 09:18:21 AM EST

    Thank you so much! (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Nov 10, 2019 at 12:57:09 AM EST
    You made me day!

    Sadly, probably my last birthday in Colorado though - looking at moving to WA next year so my family can keep an eye on me.


    Saturday we're having a rideout (5.00 / 5) (#185)
    by fishcamp on Wed Nov 06, 2019 at 07:13:15 PM EST
    with several big boats to spread the ashes of one of our beloved captains who recently passed away.  while they are somber it is quite unique.  All the boats go to one radio channel and in this case a catholic priest will speak first and then friends on any boat can say some words.  We will probably go four miles out to the huge Alligator light where he fished for over forty years.  There will be a long string of big charter boats going out to honor him.  Of course there will be many drinks and stories afterwards.

    The Baby Trump balloon (5.00 / 3) (#204)
    by desertswine on Sun Nov 10, 2019 at 12:06:09 AM EST
    has been assassinated in Alabama.  It was at the LSU-Alabama football game protesting Trump's presence when someone ran up to it and stabbed it to death.

    We have a new open thread up (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Nov 10, 2019 at 11:13:36 PM EST
    I'm sorry this one filled up before I got to chime in with birthday wishes for you Scorpio's and Sagitarius's like Fishcamp who has a milestone birthday this year. Loved his fishing story about the eulogy to the captain. Reminded me of SNL last night where the super-centarian came on Weekend News update to give news of the 100 year + citizens who all did great things....and then keeled over and died.

    Thanks Jeralyn, (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by fishcamp on Sun Nov 17, 2019 at 10:33:28 AM EST
    but I'm not ready to have my ashes spread on the warm dark waters just yet...🕶

    Also (5.00 / 1) (#208)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 17, 2019 at 10:35:11 AM EST
    Your ashes, like mine, would make the fish test positive for things

    Witness intimidation? (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 05:13:52 PM EST

    "We're going to review every witness' background.

    Steve Bannon

    Why (none / 0) (#2)
    by FlJoe on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 05:22:47 PM EST
    the question mark?

    I guess (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 05:53:22 PM EST
    A functioning justice dept would be needed for that to be a problem.

    And now for something (none / 0) (#4)
    by Zorba on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 06:24:11 PM EST
    Completely non-political.  I have been meaning to make some anginaropita (artichoke pita) for quite awhile now, and I finally did.  We loved it.
    Served with a Greek salad and some white wine.

    zorba, that sounds like a (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 06:37:30 PM EST
    really good pairing!

    This weekend it snowed for the first time so I got a bunch of beef soup bones and neck bones and boneless short ribs and made my first vegetable beef barley soup from scratch (with tiny red potatoes, carrot, celery and onion and parsley.) I didn't have a recipe so I just went by instinct. It took about 7 hours (for some reason I didn't trust the slow cooker or instant pot since there's so much fat I wanted to skim it frequently during the last few hours of cooking when the beef has fallen off the bones). By the time it was done it was almost midnight and I wasn't hungry so I'm going to have it tonight with some crusty italian bread.

    Anyone know any tips for cooking with these bones or if oxtails would be a good addition?


    I have made (none / 0) (#9)
    by Zorba on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 09:21:36 PM EST
    Beef stock for French onion soup with both bone-in short ribs and oxtails.  I don't see why you couldn't add oxtails to your beef soup next time.  Yes, all these kinds of bones and beef cuts do take a long time to get tender.
    If you're worried about fat, make it a day ahead, refrigerate it overnight, and scoop out the solid fat the next day.  
    The soup sounds delicious!  Crusty bread, and have a glass of red wine, too.

    I made (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 07:03:45 PM EST
    White Chicken Chili today.  It was excellent.

    I love (none / 0) (#10)
    by Zorba on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 09:22:44 PM EST
    White chicken chili!

    RIP Robert Evans (none / 0) (#7)
    by McBain on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 07:32:02 PM EST
    Robert Evans, the Paramount executive who produced "Chinatown" and "Urban Cowboy" and whose life became as melodramatic and jaw-dropping as any of his films, died on Saturday night. He was 89.

    The 1970s was an incredible decade for film and Evans deserves some credit.  I enjoyed the 2002 documentary about him,  "The Kid Stays In The Picture"

    and Love Story and (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 10:31:08 PM EST
    the Godfather. And Goodbye, Columbus, Harold and Maude and Lady Sings the Blues.

    Kupperman gets his day in court (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 08:19:56 PM EST

    (CNN) Judge Richard Leon wants to hear from lawyers for the Trump White House, the House of Representatives and from impeachment witness Charles Kupperman on Thursday after Kupperman filed a lawsuit asking the federal court to decide whether he would need to testify.

    Kupperman's House testimony had been set for Monday, but Kupperman didn't show up, citing White House and Justice Department reasoning that he was immune from testifying because of his previous work on the National Security Council.

    Leon will meet the parties in court at 3 p.m. on Thursday, "due to the time-sensitive nature of the issues raised in this case," the DC District judge wrote Monday night.

    Well, tomorrow's witness (none / 0) (#11)
    by Towanda on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 09:26:19 PM EST
    is on the NSC, and he will show up.  So, there goes that argument?

    His (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by FlJoe on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 05:40:48 AM EST
    opening statement here Pretty much verifies what Taylor said but no "heresy" here, he was in the room.

    About the call

    I was concerned by the call. I did not think it was proper to demand that a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen, and I was worried about the implications for the U.S. government's support of Ukraine.
    (my bold) Relatively bland except for that one word.

    Yes, it is (none / 0) (#46)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 08:14:05 PM EST
    important to avoid heresy--it can get one hanged or worse in some quarters.

    Hearsay can be problematic too.


    Well (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by FlJoe on Wed Oct 30, 2019 at 07:29:49 AM EST
    the truth is heresy to the tRump cult.

    Actually, burned at the stake (none / 0) (#54)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 10:01:46 PM EST
    Vindman definitely sounds like trouble (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 09:56:55 PM EST
    Decorated vet, active duty, on the call.

    He a naturalized American I think.  Laura Ingram just accused him of "espionage".  Apparently because he speaks a second language.

     not a lawyer but a quick decision in the Kupperman case seems like very bad news for Trumplandia


    Even worse (none / 0) (#13)
    by Yman on Mon Oct 28, 2019 at 10:12:24 PM EST
    It was John Yoo on her show accusing him ("Some people might call that espionage") along with Alan Dershowitz sitting there with an idiotic grin on his face the entire time.

    "A crime called libel" (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 08:13:24 AM EST
    Libel is not a crime in America (none / 0) (#22)
    by Peter G on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 10:47:20 AM EST
    but otherwise, Yes; just outrageous.

    I did not include the part where he said (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 11:02:13 AM EST
    "In some countries"



    If libel was a crime, ... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 01:31:02 PM EST
    ... I daresay most of the Fox News prime time hosts and guests would likely be behind bars at this point.

    I guess Vindman (none / 0) (#47)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 08:21:44 PM EST
    may be a public figure, so the New York Times v. Sullivan requirement of proving malice in libel cases would apply.  But, that seems unfair. Vindman never sought the limelight.

    But even so, I think he could prove malice.  It is Fox, after all.


    The term "malice" in this context (none / 0) (#52)
    by Peter G on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 09:10:10 PM EST
    does not mean "animosity," it means (oddly) "knowing the claim is false, or with reckless disregard as to whether it is false or not." Although I would say the Foxies probably acted with "malice" in both senses.

    It was a sickening performance (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 07:55:40 AM EST
    Particularly Dooshawitz

    Hours after Fox News host Laura Ingraham accused the Ukrainian-born Vindman of being a double agent, former GOP Rep. Sean Duffy (R-WI) went on CNN to question his loyalty to the United States.

    During an interview with host John Berman, Duffy argued that Vindman might not be the most trustworthy witness because he was born in Ukraine before his family moved to the United States when he was three years old.

    Duffy said this made him wonder if Vindman really had America's best interests at heart.

    "It seems very clear that he is incredibly concerned about Ukrainian defense," Duffy said. "I don't know that he's concerned about American policy... we all have an affinity to our homeland where we came from... he has an affinity for the Ukraine."

    I thought (none / 0) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 03:39:08 AM EST
    he was a spy because he immigrated from the Ukraine. I also guess that it depends on which wingnut welfare promoter you listen to as to which version of "traitor" you are going to hear against the guy.

    Gee, how did (none / 0) (#24)
    by KeysDan on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 11:31:23 AM EST
    an active duty officer who is a spy and traitor get so close to the president?  

    Not a very good spy, apparently (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Peter G on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 02:23:18 PM EST
    Instead of reporting his gold nugget find to a foreign adversary, he reported his concerns through secure and official channels to the lawyers and higher-ups at the U.S. National Security Council. Some spy!

    You (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by FlJoe on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 02:42:38 PM EST
    under-estimate those wily Ukrainians. After all they managed to fool the FBI, CIA, NSA, DNC, Mueller, the Senate Intel committee, the press. All while framing the hapless Russians.

    Recruiting Vindman when he was two years old was a master stroke.

    Vindman's life of patriotism, service and doing things by the book was a devious plan to fool the Republicans who are confused by such foreign behavior.


    Wow, that is fast (none / 0) (#45)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 08:12:41 PM EST
    action by the Court.

    Filing a Complaint by itself does not trigger quick Court action afik.  I suppose someone could have filed a motion for a Temporary Restraining Order and Preliminary Injunction, which would get immediate judicial attention.  


    More Jared (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 04:06:13 PM EST
    on tv please.

    He should do a podcast or something.

    Gaetz just filed an ethics complaint today against House Intel Committee Chair Adam Schiff. And his assertions must be true, because the document was notarized. (Cue eye roll.)

    These guys just don't know when to stop digging.


    No grand jury documents (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 05:39:33 PM EST

    The DC Circuit Court of Appeals issued an emergency order on Tuesday blocking Congress from obtaining grand jury materials from special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation.

    The order was issued by a three-judge panel.

    A federal judge had ordered the release of the material to the House Judiciary Committee, but the stay from the Appeals Court will block that order pending appeal from the Department of Justice.

    Normal "stay" to preserve (none / 0) (#38)
    by Peter G on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 07:09:44 PM EST
    the status quo, and not prejudge the appeal. Not a significant loss.

    How long (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 07:14:16 PM EST
    Ya think?

    Hmm, I suppose (none / 0) (#41)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 07:26:25 PM EST
    But would the Court of Appeal just deny the stay if they thought the appeal to be without merit?

    If they agreed with Judge Howell (none / 0) (#43)
    by Peter G on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 08:03:34 PM EST
    that the issue was clearly already decided by the Haldeman Watergate appeal, then I guess they would have denied a stay. This means that the three judges on the emergency motions panel, at least (which will not necessarily be the merits panel), thought it remains an open question whether an impeachment is a "judicial proceeding" within the meaning of the grand jury disclosure rule, Fed.R.Crim.P. 6(e)(3)(E)(i).

    Yeah, that is what (none / 0) (#44)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 08:10:33 PM EST
    I feared.

    I have to admit I do not have a good batting average in getting stays from the Court of Appeals....in civil cases.....


    The World Series fans (none / 0) (#55)
    by KeysDan on Tue Oct 29, 2019 at 10:08:27 PM EST
    better lawyer-up.  Frank Luntz, Republican opinion guru and pollster, said on Fox, that  they must be held accountable for the boos of Trump.  A big task, but it would not be surprising if AG Barr is on it---maybe checking ticket sales for information on the 44,000 fans.  

    I think you would agree that Republicans are generally a Bible-thumping crowd. Rather than merely thump the Good Book, let them instead actually read it for a change, and perhaps ponder Hosea 8:7 from the Old Testament:

    "For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind. The stalk has no head; it will produce no flour. Were it to yield grain, foreigners would swallow it up."

    The foreigners in this particular case are, of course, the Russians. And while we're quoting the Bible, the Republicans can also consider Jesus's teachings in Mark 8:36-37 from the New Testament:

    "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"

    Yea, though we walk through the valley of the shadow of derp, let it be known that it was foretold by the prophet Garry Trudeau in the Gospel According to Doonesbury (October 24, 1999 - 20 years ago!) that Republican voters would inevitably bring great misfortune upon the land.

    Aloha. ;-D


    Speaking of the World Series, ... (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 30, 2019 at 09:52:51 PM EST
    ... if the Washington Nationals hang on in Houston tonight to beat the Astros in Game 7 -- and they're currently up 4-2 in the 8th inning -- it will mark the very first time in the 116-year history of the Fall Classic that the home team failed to win a single game.

    And the NATS win it! (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 10:45:20 AM EST
    woo hoo.

    The Nats went to the White House today ... (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 04, 2019 at 03:09:15 PM EST
    ... sans their bullpen ace Sean Doolittle, who pushed back on those who claim he's not respecting the office of the president by declining the invite:

    "People say you should go because it's about respecting the office of the president. And I think over the course of his time in office he's done a lot of things that maybe don't respect the office. The rhetoric, time and time again, has enabled those kind of behaviors [racism and white supremacy]. That never really went away, but it feels like now people with those beliefs, they maybe feel a little bit more empowered. They feel like they have a path, maybe. I don't want to hang out with somebody who talks like that."

    Good for him.


    Fall (none / 0) (#60)
    by FlJoe on Wed Oct 30, 2019 at 01:37:01 PM EST
    in Florida, the low temperature the past two nights has been 79 degrees! On track to be warmest October ever.

    It was very hot here (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 30, 2019 at 04:18:56 PM EST
    Until it wasn't.  Then it was very cool.  Literally in the same day.  And it stayed cool.  Fall has been beautiful because of all the rain all year.  It's been perfect fall weather.  

    Haven't (none / 0) (#64)
    by FlJoe on Wed Oct 30, 2019 at 04:33:26 PM EST
    had a real cold front pass yet, a couple of nights in upper 60's but consistent highs in the mid to upper 80's. Supposed to cool down a tiny bit this weekend with highs around 80, brrr.

    I've been having a fire at night (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 30, 2019 at 04:37:00 PM EST
    On another subject

    This is the top link on DRUDGE
    Specter of Nixon impeachment looming over Republican Party

    Sometimes history repeats itself in bizarre coincidences. Consider the intersection of the expected House vote tomorrow to begin a public phase of impeachment, and what happened 46 years ago today. Past and present may portend the future. On October 30, 1973, the House began a process to impeach President Nixon.

    Happy Halloween!


    Ninja Foodie users? (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 30, 2019 at 04:42:10 PM EST
    I thinking about it.  It says it's big.  My kitchen is not.

    If you're like me in following the Trump-Ukraine scandal, you sometimes have trouble differentiating your Kolomoisky and Lutsenko from your Zlochevsky and Leshchenko. And if that's the case, well, we're in luck because the Los Angeles Times has thoughtfully provided a quick and dirty cheat sheet of the 11 Ukrainians and Americans of Ukrainian descent who've collectively proved to be the primary catalyst for Trump's impeachment headache, along with a brief description of each man's respective role in this burgeoning affair. This list may prove to be quite helpful when trying to figure out exactly who's standing on what base.

    So Bolton just (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 30, 2019 at 05:24:38 PM EST
    Invited a subpoena, as they are calling it.  Says he won't do it without a subpoena.  But it sounds like he wants to do it.

    cue background music

    Yeah, (none / 0) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 30, 2019 at 05:46:54 PM EST
    that sure came off as a wink wink nod nod for sure.

    "I stand ready at all times.... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 30, 2019 at 05:56:03 PM EST
    ...to accept service of a subpoena on his behalf"

    don't know about wink and nod.

    That's more like YOOhoooooo


    That would be (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by MKS on Wed Oct 30, 2019 at 07:31:57 PM EST
    the proper and reasonable thing to do.

    Friendly witnesses often ask for subpoenas to protect themselves.


    Don't forget Rudy (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 08:34:07 AM EST
    Couple of days ago Rachel reminded us that while we watch the impeachment show we should not forget about the criminal investigations that are also advancing.

    Rudy who is involved in two federal criminal investigations we know of and who's straight up Russian Mafia helpers have already been grabbed was in charge of the WHOLE thing.

    If by chance Rudy is charged with crimes related to Ukraine or not it could have some serious effects on the impeachment show.

    TIME cover story on Rudy

    Watching the hearing on CSPAN and it took about 5 minutes to clarify for anyone wondering why they have been hearing closed hearings.

    The best thing they did in the rules committee was set it up so staff professionals question witnesses.  

    Nancy speaking (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 09:00:33 AM EST
    Repeating his quote over and over "I can do whatever I want" is very smart.

    The GOP votes (none / 0) (#79)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 12:16:31 PM EST
    in lock step for the Trump.  So, it would appear they will support anything.  The Senate trial appears to be a foregone conclusion.

    Warren, I think, will fumble. She is to the left of Hillary and appears headed for fewer votes and states....  

    ... once the impeachment hearings emerge from behind closed doors, and the parade of witnesses start repeating in public what they've already told the House committees in private. The polling trends are already sliding against Trump, and I don't expect them to improve once people really start focusing on the evidence. Congressional Republicans will have start start asking themselves whether or not they're willing to own this president's misdeeds as his enablers.

    House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy railed against the resolution today on the House floor, which now prompts me to remind everyone that by virtue of having accepted illegal campaign contributions of laundered Russian money from Rudy Giuliani's mobbed-up associates Igor Fruman and Lev Parnas, McCarthy directly implicated in the influence peddling and bribery scandal that's at the heart of impeachment inquiry.



    That would be a rational (none / 0) (#81)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 02:46:44 PM EST
    reaction to more evidence.....

    Public opinion has changed to be more in favor of Impeachment, but I sense it will remain static from here on out.


    Old houses (none / 0) (#82)
    by CST on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 02:47:54 PM EST
    It can be hard to find new things that fit.  For example, the only bathroom is tiny (60 IN x 60 IN). Replacing the floor, figured I'd spring for some new appliances. Apparently they don't make toilets as small as they used to.  So now I have to either hope the old one never breaks or move some walls... I guess people's butts got a lot bigger?

    Also I found some pipes that apparently used to be used for gas lamps, which is kind of cool.  And square nails galore.

    Yes, old-house (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Towanda on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 04:23:14 PM EST
    toilets had smaller footprints, because the tanks were high up on the walls.  We dealt with this in remodeling a small bathrooms. Iif the toilet lid was down, the door could not open or close. . . . We did move the doorway. At least we didn't have to move a wall.

    Other solutions included the more expensive installation of a pocket door or a European toilet that was smaller, but rviews said its tank was too small to work well.

    And there are the reproductions of the old toilets with the tanks high up on the walls, but we could see why that design was changed, Having that tank overhead when seated on the, um, facility felt exceedingly discomfiting (read:  downright weird).

    And oh, the other oddities of old houses abound. Yes, square nails. And studs turned sideways, which made our construction crew shake their heads and laugh.  And rogue wiring by amateur electricians. And . . . . the list goes on and on.


    Square nails? Wow, that is pretty cool! (none / 0) (#83)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 03:10:03 PM EST
    I was surprised (none / 0) (#104)
    by CST on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 05:23:53 PM EST
    It suggests a different age of the house than I originally thought.  The records around here aren't great.

    Per RealPro.com, ... (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 06:26:57 PM EST
    ... the presence of square nails in a structure strongly suggest a pre-1890 construction. Nails after 1890 were of machine manufacture and are round. Square nails were generally hand-cast/-forged. The linked article is actually pretty interesting and informative.

    People have gotten bigger. (none / 0) (#85)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 04:06:33 PM EST
    The average height of the American male at the time of the Civil War was 67.4 inches. At the close of the Second World War, it was 68.6 inches. It peaked at 70.4 inches in 1996, and has since receded to 70.1 inches in 2018. I'm sure there are any number of factors that accounted for this fluctuation, i.e., diet, environment, genetics, etc.

    Further, a 2004 study by the National Center for Health Statistics at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that the average American male and female were at least an inch taller and 25 pounds heavier than their counterparts were 44 years prior in 1960.



    Oh, and the old gas pipes (none / 0) (#87)
    by Towanda on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 04:30:20 PM EST
    . . . for wall sconces were all over our house, usually paired with electrical wiring, because -- I found from researching this oddity -- our house was built when electrification was new and unreliable. So, wall sconces had two bulbs, with gas on one side and electricity on the other side. Reproductions are available, but I consider those just ugly.

    Plus, we were assured that all of the lines to the sconces were no longer active, and we could just shear off the caps to be even with the wall or hammer them in.  Well, it turned out that some still were active. And that hammering in an old gas cap could almost collapse an entire wall.

    In sum, we learned that any assurances that the logical thing s had been done were not to be trusted. Old houses are inherently illogical.


    The old house I just sold a couple (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 05:02:47 PM EST
    Of years ago was sort of "hand made" so in addition to all that (I had one of those raised box toilets, and a gigantic six foot long ball and claw tub ) was there was not a square corner in the entire structure.  

    Our house was constructed in the late 1940s. (none / 0) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 06:40:37 PM EST
    The previous owners had the entire place re-wired to modern codes in 2002. It's solidly constructed, not pre-fabricated like so many places built during that same period on the U.S. mainland. But it does need a new roof, which we're having done in a couple weeks before the rainy season starts. It's presently pitch and gravel, and we're having it redone as shingle. So many roofs on the Big Island are pitch and gravel -- or worse still, corrugated aluminum, which amplifies the rain and makes it sometimes problematic to converse with anyone indoors during a heavy downpour.

    Judge reopens Sandmann/WaPo lawsuit (none / 0) (#89)
    by McBain on Thu Oct 31, 2019 at 08:28:18 PM EST
    The lawsuit can move forward but the focus is much more specific. In the lawsuit, Nick Sandmann accuses The Washington Post of libel, saying stories written about the January incident in Washington, D.C., shed a negative light on him, which led to him being disgraced on social media.

    Attorneys Lin Wood and Todd McMurtry filed the lawsuit on behalf of Sandmann and his family. It was the first in a series of lawsuits filed against several media outlets...

    ...On Monday, McMurtry tweeted: "NEWSFLASH: Federal Judge William O. Bertelsman partially reversed his ruling to dismiss #nicksandmann's claims against the @washingtonpost. Nick's case may now proceed into discovery. The ruling bodes well for the NBC and CNN cases, as well."

    I know the world doesn't work like this but there's a simple solution here....
    The Washington Post, NBC and CNN should give Nick Sandmann a full apology and pay for his college tuition. That should be enough to get his reputation back and help him do well in life.

    Pity the poor, oppressed white preppie. (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 01:55:12 PM EST
    What can we do to alleviate their pain and distress?

    (Cue eye roll.)


    Another "simple solution" (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Yman on Sat Nov 02, 2019 at 01:54:22 PM EST
    Don't give any apology since none is even remotely warranted - then send Wood and McMurtry packing again after discovery is complete.

    Also in what parallel dimension (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by jondee on Sat Nov 02, 2019 at 02:42:28 PM EST
    is being Trump's adopted house-pet and personal weapon to flog Fake News! media outlets with in any way good Sandmann's damaged reputation?

    Nick has the Trump-stink all over him at this point. And it's going to do nothing but get smellier.


    Today I'm making (none / 0) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 09:49:10 AM EST
    crispy shiitake mushrooms

    I usually make it with half meat.  Pork today.

    Tip (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 10:00:06 AM EST
    Toast the seeds

    Norman Ornstein (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 10:43:42 AM EST
    Just said a very interesting thing I did not know.

    Senators have the option of "absenting themselves"

    ....in other words, the constitution does not say 2/3 of the Senate has to convict it's 2/3 of those present

    Maybe this will (none / 0) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 03:25:58 PM EST
    be the strategy of the GOP: just don't show up and let whomever shows up decide what to do with Trump.

    Senator Warren has released (none / 0) (#100)
    by KeysDan on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 04:02:29 PM EST
    her Medicare For All plan.  A good summary of the plan is described by Ezra Klein.

    Dr. Paul Krugman's review describes the Warren plan as a serious one whose numbers, though you can argue with them, add up. Moreover, he opines that no proposal to remake American Health Care will be the final one, but it is surely a plan to discuss and work with.

    Warren's consultants include Don Berwick, former Director of Centers for Medicare and Medicaid, Simon Johnson, former chief economist of World Bank; Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's; and Betsy Stevenson, former economist at the US Department of Labor(the quality of the consultants, itself, augurs well for the type of people America might expect in a Warren Administration). Of course, not as terrific as Trump's "best people", e.g., Betsy DeVos.

    In my view, Senator Warren's plan is a vision and more--a concretized idea that demonstrates that America can have a much better health care system than it has.  Coverage for all for, essentially, with no net change (adjusting for an increased expenditure owing to expansion of coverage for all).

    The Warren plan, of course, is subject to fair analysis, questions and criticisms. It does, as all plans,  especially a ten-year plan of this magnitude, rest on presumptions that may be overly ambitious or optimistic.  They may be seen as idealistic, but not realistic.  But, it is a plan, and like the best laid ones, it may not come to pass as set forth.  But, for me, it is better than proposing an incremental and incomplete solution for the stepping stone of the ACA, being chipped away at, since outright repeal did not work,  so far. No need to propose a plan of compromise right out of the starting gate.

    Medicare for All Who Want It, or Public Option, are not free either, in cost or in political reality. These plans, too, should be set forth in detail.  And, too, Republicans can be depended on to misrepresent and lie.  Socialism, Communism, Anarchy.  

    And Beto (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 04:32:52 PM EST
    Is out

    And, Kamala (none / 0) (#102)
    by KeysDan on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 04:39:19 PM EST
    Is on the ropes.

    Amazing to (none / 0) (#110)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 07:53:03 PM EST
    me is Booker and Castro are still hanging in there.

    We (none / 0) (#107)
    by FlJoe on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 07:15:27 PM EST
    are  reaching the sure he did it stage
    A growing number of Senate Republicans are ready to acknowledge that President Trump used U.S. military aid as leverage to force Ukraine to investigate former vice president Joe Biden
    but of course they see nothing wrong with it
    these Republicans are insisting that the president's action was not illegal and does not rise to the level of an impeachable offense

    Besides Biden & Son, (none / 0) (#108)
    by RickyJim on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 07:38:58 PM EST
    and the secret server, what other corruption did Trump try to have the Ukrainians investigate?  The Republican talking point is that the Biden affair was just one of several corrupt things going on in the Ukraine that Trump wanted fixed before he released the money.

    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by FlJoe on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 07:52:21 PM EST
    zero. In fact they tried to slash money for anti-corruption programs in Ukraine and elsewhere. Link

    GOP senators might want to note ... (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 01, 2019 at 08:13:48 PM EST
    ... the apparent consciousness of guilt on the part of deputy White House counsel John Eisenberg, who sought to lock down the transcript and notes of the Trump-Zelensky call, and further told Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman to not talk to anyone about the phone call, after Vindman had approached him twice to relay his concerns.

    If Trump had done nothing illegal, as so many Republicans are insisting, then why the concerted effort to suppress both the whistleblower complaint and evidence of the phone call, and further order career civil servants at the State Dept. and Intelligence Community to not cooperate with the inquiry?

    For folks who obstinately insist that they're innocent on all things Ukraine, Trump & Co. are sure doing a great job of conveying the totally opposite impression to the public.



    Look into when Ukraine stopped (none / 0) (#117)
    by ruffian on Sat Nov 02, 2019 at 09:20:13 PM EST
    cooperating with the Mueller investigation...right before the Trump admin allowed them to buy missiles....

    The call in July was by no means the first rodeo.


    Did the Ukraine Ever Investigate (none / 0) (#121)
    by RickyJim on Sun Nov 03, 2019 at 01:19:12 PM EST
    anything to get the aid they wanted?  According to this Republican, they got the aid so there was no "quid pro quo."

    Tr*mp's "ask" was not for Ukraine (none / 0) (#122)
    by Peter G on Sun Nov 03, 2019 at 02:09:22 PM EST
    to investigate anything; it was for the Ukrainian president to announce on U.S. TV that Ukraine was conducting an investigation. The whole point was not to trigger an investigation -- the FBI/DOJ or CIA could do that just as well, if not better -- but rather to influence U.S. political opinion with a fake, partisan investigation announcement.

    But the Ukrainian President Didn't (none / 0) (#123)
    by RickyJim on Sun Nov 03, 2019 at 03:27:07 PM EST
    do that and the Ukrainians got their aid.  That seems to be why the Republicans claim no high crime or misdemeanor was committed. I still think the best bet for getting some Republican support for impeachment is to get Trump's financial records ASAP.  Ukraine/Mueller is too subtle to sell to the masses.

    The crime is in the trying to pull it off (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Peter G on Sun Nov 03, 2019 at 03:52:05 PM EST
    Guilt is not dependent on succeeding.

    They got their aid the day after the (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by ruffian on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 06:41:59 AM EST
    news of the whistleblower broke. Damage control so they could use that talking point.

    They are working on the financial records (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 03, 2019 at 03:29:43 PM EST
    As well as several other investigations

    They released the aid AFTER ... (none / 0) (#130)
    by Yman on Sun Nov 03, 2019 at 05:30:21 PM EST
    ... the White House was informed of the whistle blower complaint.

    Financial records (none / 0) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 04, 2019 at 12:21:56 PM EST
    Now it will (none / 0) (#133)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 04, 2019 at 12:41:05 PM EST
    go to the supreme court if they take the case?

    Hello Peter...... (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 04, 2019 at 12:47:43 PM EST
    They are saying it's a slam dunk.

    Paging Peter.


    No court case with a potential national political (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by Peter G on Mon Nov 04, 2019 at 01:11:37 PM EST
    impact is a "slam dunk" before the Supreme Court. That said, this morning's decision is a 34-page unanimous ruling by a three-judge panel, issued just 12 days (a very short time) after an oral argument at which Tr*mp's lawyers couldn't find a remotely convincing answer to the judges' questions. If the case does go to the Supreme Court, a decision on the merits couldn't be issued before late winter, and the real question will only be whether the Court issues a stay in the meanwhile.

    Pete Williams (none / 0) (#136)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 04, 2019 at 12:58:50 PM EST
    Says going to the SC within the next 10 days.

    For argument's sake, let's suppose ... (none / 0) (#135)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 04, 2019 at 12:51:27 PM EST
    RickyJim: "But the Ukrainian president didn't do that and the Ukrainians got their aid.  That seems to be why the Republicans claim no high crime or misdemeanor was committed."

    ... you attempt to rob a local branch of a bank, and the branch staff responds by first pressing the alarm and then locking themselves in the vault, compelling you to depart the premises quickly with no loot in hand.

    Now, please explain to us how no crime occurred. ;-D


    RickyJim: "Ukraine/Mueller is too subtle to sell to the masses."

    And further, I daresay he speaks for me and a lot of others, as well:

    "I do not think that conduct, criminal or not, is okay. And the day we do think that it's okay is the day we will look back and say, `that is the day America lost its way.'"



    Ya (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 03, 2019 at 03:28:10 PM EST
    Kellyann said the same thing today.

    Just one thing, they got the aid two days after the whistleblower exposed the shakedown.


    VOX (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 03, 2019 at 03:37:58 PM EST

    Sept. 9, 2019: Atkinson expresses his concerns to House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff and ranking member Devin Nunes in a letter

    After Maguire did not disclose the information to Congress, Atkinson did. In a letter to the top Democrat and Republican on the House Intelligence committee, Atkinson wrote that he had "received a disclosure form an individual regarding an alleged 'urgent concern.'"

    Sept. 10, 2019: Schiff pens a formal request for the full whistleblower complaint

    Schiff responded to Atkinson's letter by issuing a request for the full whistleblower complaint, the inspector general's formal determination on the complaint, and any documents related to the director of national intelligence's involvement in the matter.

    Sept. 11, 2019: The State Department gives Congress notice it wants to send an additional $141 million in aid to Ukraine

    These funds were announced in addition to the $250 million previously allotted

    It's today's talking point (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 03, 2019 at 03:51:23 PM EST
    "All of them top foreign policy officials to this president have all testified about repeated instances where they saw the support for Ukraine dependent on Ukraine investigating the Bidens," Wallace began. "Isn't that the definition of a quid pro quo?"

    "The fact is Ukraine has that aid, they're using that aid as we sit here " Conway shot back.

    Fox's Chris Wallace scorches Kellyanne Conway for blowing off testimony about Trump's quid pro quo


    The thing (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Nov 03, 2019 at 04:40:51 PM EST
    is Ukraine ONLY got their aid when the whole thing went public. If it had not gone public, Trump would still be holding up their aid demanding that they do what he wanted.

    Go Ducks... (none / 0) (#116)
    by fishcamp on Sat Nov 02, 2019 at 05:47:32 PM EST
    caseyOR  where are you?  Sorry about those Huskys Donald

    ... as the pigskin prognosticators thought they'd be. That first loss to Cal, 20-19 at home in Seattle, really should've tipped everyone off to that. The only reason UW was even ranked in the Top 25 at this late stage of the season -- until yesterday, anyway -- was the program's perceived pedigree. Oh, well, at this point they're out of the running, and Oregon and Utah will likely be facing off for the Pac-12 title in December.

    However, if I had to pick a surprise in the Pac-12 conference right now, it's a suddenly resurgent UCLA. Most everyone wrote the Bruins off a month ago when they were 1-5, but they've since reeled off three straight wins and currently sit in second place in the Pac-12 South behind Utah with a 4-2 conference record.

    Now, beating Utah in Salt Lake City on Nov. 16 is admittedly going to be an awfully tall order for UCLA but that said, the Utes best not take them lightly. The Bruins rallied from a 49-17 deficit in the 3rd quarter to stun Washington State on the road earlier this season, a game in which they displayed some rather remarkable resiliency. And in the last few weeks, they've upset both Stanford and Arizona State.

    So, forget the horrible start to the season. Coach Chip Kelly has them finally clicking on all cylinders, and they have some serious horses on offense who can inflict real damage upon an opponent if given the opportunity. Further, they know that they now control their own destiny in the Pac-12. If they can win out, they and not Utah will take the division crown.



    Hey, fishcamp, here I am. (5.00 / 2) (#199)
    by caseyOR on Thu Nov 07, 2019 at 09:29:48 PM EST
    Living in "flyover country". Patronizing the occasional diner. Waiting, futilely I suspect, for The NY Times to interview me.

    Tore a meniscus. Hurt so bad. Physical therapy and exercises at home are dominating my days right now.

    Speaking of the Oregon Ducks, I must confess to feeling a little tiny bit of schadenfreude when Florida State sent Willkie Taggart packing.

    How are you doing, fish?


    So glad (5.00 / 3) (#200)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 08, 2019 at 03:59:16 AM EST
    to see you posting. I hope you feel better soon.

    And speaking of football, ... (none / 0) (#139)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 04, 2019 at 01:52:02 PM EST
    ... apparently I'm not alone in thinking that the NFL Chargers should've never left San Diego. By moving to L.A., they've proved that greed is the Achilles' Heel of major league sports.

    As a former San Diegan (none / 0) (#142)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Nov 04, 2019 at 05:25:54 PM EST
    I completely agree. I rooted for the Chargers for many years in San Diego. If I still lived in San Diego, I would feel much like my wife does about the Colts. As a Baltimore native, she routinely roots against them and holds a long grudge for them sneaking out of town in the dark of night during a snowstorm. Though, it was a tough call for yesterday's game betwixt Pittsburgh and Indianapolis. As Ravens fans, we ALWAYS want the Steelers to lose. No matter the opponent.

    And how about those Ravens? Slapped Tom Brady, Bill Belichick and the rest of the Patriots around a bit last night. Took the lead early and never lost it. They just didn't know how to respond to Lamar Jackson. Or, by the time they did, it was too late.


    It probably would've been (none / 0) (#143)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 04, 2019 at 05:34:05 PM EST
    even worse for the Pats if the Ravens didn't cough up the ball a couple of times.

    Trying out the new AppleTV+ service (none / 0) (#118)
    by ruffian on Sat Nov 02, 2019 at 09:27:22 PM EST
    Haven't gotten past the 'Dickinson' show yet. It is so good!!! If you like genre blending and modern language in period costume, you will love it. The cast is outstanding - I love Anna Baryshnikov who played Emily's sister. She must be related to Mikhail, she looks just like him - daughter or granddaughter (heaven forbid, I guess we could be that old). She is so funny, and dances a little in the combination of old and new style the show embraces.

    Anyway, I'll try the show with Jennifer Aniston too, but for now this one is highly entertaining.

    His Dark Materials starts tomorrow (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 03, 2019 at 06:09:11 AM EST
    Catherine Was Great (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 09:37:14 AM EST
    Really enjoyed the discussions of Crimea this week.  

    Catherine - "....umm, Crimea. That's always been a Russian dream."

     Would that make Trump Cathrine and Putin the horse?


    It's home to a major Black Sea port facility and huge Russian naval base in Sevastopol, which was the focal point of a major British military siege operation (assisted by the French) in the Crimean War (1854-56).

    That war, is of course, the setting of the epic poem by Alfred, Lord Tennyson, "The Charge of the Light Brigade," which recounts Lord Cardigan's grievously erroneous order to a British light cavalry unit that was subsequent shot to pieces at the Battle of Balaclava when they charged headlong into Russian gun emplacements defending Sevastopol.

    While that battle was inconclusive, the war tilted sharply against Russian when Sevastopol fell in September 1855, which encouraged other European nations to enter the war on the side of Britain and France. Successive British naval attacks on the Russian Black Sea port cities of Odessa, Novorrosisk and Rostov, coupled with Anglo-French military assaults on Russia's Baltic Sea ports in the north, compelled Czar Nicholas I to sue for peace in 1856.

    The defeat was a major humiliation for Russia and ironically, proved a boon to the fortunes of the Kingdom of Sardinia, a minor Mediterranean power which had joined the side of the Allies and contributed its army to the siege of Sevastopol. Sardinian successes on the battlefield encouraged that country to embark upon a much more ambitious but ultimately successful undertaking, the unification of Italy by military force between 1858 and 1866.



    Don't forget ... (none / 0) (#119)
    by desertswine on Sat Nov 02, 2019 at 10:11:52 PM EST
    to change your clocks tonite.  It's Fall Back time.  I usually wait till the morning.

    The technical term for a cat's hairball is a "bezoar."

    House Republicans (none / 0) (#131)
    by KeysDan on Mon Nov 04, 2019 at 09:27:18 AM EST
    have refused the offer of the Whistleblower to provide written answers to their questions.  Guess it would be OK only if the Whistleblower hand-delivered his/her responses to Trump.  

    Election Day in Kentucky (none / 0) (#145)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 08:09:20 AM EST
    And Mississippi that's should be easy for republicans but are not looking that way.

    This is the best election result of the night: (5.00 / 3) (#170)
    by leap on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 08:38:49 PM EST
    It looking like Andy Beshear (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 07:18:41 PM EST
    Is about to pull a pretty big upset in KY.

    Mitch has to be watching this with some dread.

    92% in


    Yes (none / 0) (#153)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 07:27:39 PM EST
    there are sites that have called it already for Beshear. How Moscow Mitch moves forward is going to be interesting to see. Does he dump Trump to save himself possibly?

    If Beshear wins it will be yuge (none / 0) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 07:38:49 PM EST
    Trump went all in on this one.  So did Bevin for Trump all about Trump all the time .  Trump really stuck it out there.

    Well (none / 0) (#156)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 07:47:46 PM EST
    it's yuge because it seems almost everybody has called KY for Beshear. Where Trump campaigned went 2 to 1 for Beshear.

    The dem is now ahead in Mississippi (none / 0) (#155)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 07:47:09 PM EST
    Trump was there yesterday begging them to save him.

    Now that I cannot believe (none / 0) (#157)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 07:48:57 PM EST
    If the GOP loses there it truly is going to be a bloodbath in 2020.

    It was brief (none / 0) (#158)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 07:51:08 PM EST
    Watching MSNBC now. (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 09:52:58 PM EST
    Shows R at 54% to 45% for D. Remember, it's Mississippi. "We're 49th! We're 49th!"

    99% of polls have reported in Kentucky. (none / 0) (#159)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 07:51:34 PM EST
    Democrat Andy Beshear is up by just under 10,000 votes, 706,865-696,918. I don't think there's enough electoral real estate left for Gov. Bevin to make up the ground.

    Kornaki just said (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 07:52:58 PM EST
    It's pretty over.  Even tho not called

    Just called (none / 0) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 07:58:01 PM EST
    Beshear wins

    Bevin was the second most unpopular (none / 0) (#163)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 08:10:36 PM EST
    Governor in the country.

    Mitch McConnell is the most unpopular Senator in the country.

    The Hill
    Last summer

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is America's most unpopular senator with voters in his state, with Maine Sen. Susan Collins (R) coming in as a close runner-up, a new Morning Consult poll has found.  

    Also democrats just won (none / 0) (#164)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 08:16:11 PM EST
    Control of the state senate in VA.

    Still watching the House


    Associated Press ... (none / 0) (#166)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 08:25:25 PM EST
    ... is strongly intimating that Democrats have also won the VA House of Delegates.

    They have flipped 3 seats (none / 0) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 08:27:26 PM EST
    Which is more than enough but there are still 19 (they just said) that have not been called.

    But as of now with no more flips, yes.


    Republicans do not (none / 0) (#173)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 09:55:53 PM EST
    respect Reason; they do respect Power.

     Losing the Kentucky Governor's race will be noticed by the GOP and will have more effect than the undisputed facts about Trump withholding aid to Ukraine in return for dirt on the Bidens.


    It will. (none / 0) (#174)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 06, 2019 at 06:45:34 AM EST
    It definitely will.

    And next week in Louisiana (none / 0) (#175)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 06, 2019 at 06:54:34 AM EST
    There is another race for gov that a democrat is going to win.

    Edwards is ahead in every poll.



    And incredibly (none / 0) (#176)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 06, 2019 at 09:51:27 AM EST
    They just said Trump is going to Louisiana to embarrass himself again.

    In another last minute "love me or die" appearance

    I would not be surprised if "scheduling conflicts" prevent that presidential appearance.

    Or he really has lost his mind.  I'm good either way.


    MKS: "Losing the Kentucky Governor's race will be noticed by the GOP[.]"

    Things may be taking a rather ominous turn, with Kentucky's GOP legislative leadership now threatening to invoke an obscure and antiquated provision found in commonwealth's constitution that hasn't been used in over a century, which in theory could allow the Republican-dominated General Assembly to toss aside the electoral results on a pretext and instead decide the matter themselves in favor of you-know-who:

    Louisville Courier-Journal | November 6, 2019
    Senate president: Kentucky governor's race could be decided by state legislature - "Kentucky Senate President Robert Stivers threw another wrench into the state's razor-thin gubernatorial outcome late Tuesday night, saying that the legislature could decide the race. [...] A candidate can file a formal election contest with the state legislature, but it must be filed within 30 days of the last action by the state board of elections. The state board is scheduled to certify the results of the race for governor on Nov. 25 this year. [..] Such an election contest is covered under Section 90 of the state constitution, which addresses a 'contest of election for Governor or Lieutenant Governor.'"

    From Lt. Gov. Allison Lundergan Grimes:

    "It hasn't been used in a governor or lieutenant governor's race in over 100 years. What happens is an 11-member board comprised of members of the Senate and House are able to make an inquiry based on a specific statement made by a candidate pointing out errors in the election. In terms of what they could ultimately do, they could issue a new election."

    The Republican Party has become completely unhinged.


    NBC News calls it. (none / 0) (#162)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 08:08:04 PM EST
    Andy Beshear is the "apparent winner." He won this race by running up overwhelming margins in Louisville, Lexington and the Cincinnati suburbs around Covington, KY on the south side of the Ohio River, and he certainly benefited from a voter turnout that was nearly 50% higher than the last gubernatorial election in 2015.

    Just finished The Spy (none / 0) (#147)
    by CST on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 10:24:05 AM EST
    On Netflix.   Sasha Baron Cohen takes a serious role and, IMO, knocks it out of the park. I got tired of his schtick  a while ago but this isn't that.  I thought they did a great job of telling the human story, and how lives are treated carelessly.  They also cast the FBI agent from The Americans to play a Mossad agent and I spent the entire series referring to him as "the FBI guy".  His accent was a bit forced, he was a weaker link of the film but that may be biased due to my previous strong association (he's excellent in the Americans).  The woman who played Nadia Cohen was excellent.

    I am all in for Medicare for All. (none / 0) (#149)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 02:37:43 PM EST
    I've been wanting to retire for some time. Mostly because I just don't like my current job anymore. I am wore out. I've worked since I was 10 years old.

    A series of events at work convinced me it was time to go. But wait! I have enough through retirement accounts and savings to live for more than a couple of years. EXCEPT for health care costs. My prescriptions (that literally keep me alive) would run about $2500 a month retail. Insurance for me and my wife through an exchange would run about $1700 a month, with a $15,000 deductible. And one of my injections is not covered by nearly any plan. None of these options is affordable. I can file for Social Security for another year and half.

    I'm tired of living in a country whose health care system's number one goal seems to be to bankrupt its citizens. I moved around a lot, so I was never a big fan of health insurance tied to a job. Before the ACA, you had to wait 3 to 6 months to enroll or qualify. The plans constantly changed, etc.

    Be careful you are not confusing retirement (none / 0) (#150)
    by Peter G on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 04:35:45 PM EST
    with taking Medicare, or with Social Security for that matter. I started on Medicare a couple of years ago (plus a Medicare supplement for $145 or so per month, plus a drug plan for another $32.50/mo.), started drawing Social Security a couple of months ago, and am still not retired. These are 3 different things.

    I won't qualify for Medicare (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 09:43:20 PM EST
    For another 4.5 yrs. I know the difference between SS and Medicare.

    Donald Trump Jr (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 05:35:18 PM EST
    Has apparently written a book about Roy Rodgers horse.

    Good for him.

    Trivia Note: After Trigger died in 1965, ... (none / 0) (#165)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 08:22:59 PM EST
    ... Roy Rogers and wife Dale Evans had the horse's hide removed from the carcass and then stretched over a plaster likeness, which was then mounted for display in his museum at Branson, MO. Rogers also had his dog Bullet stuffed and mounted upon his death. When the Rogers museum closed in 2009, both Trigger and Bullet were purchased by RFD-TV president president Patrick Gottsch, and they now stand sentinel inside the company lobby in Omaha, NE.

    They should have added (none / 0) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 08:25:33 PM EST
    Roy and Dale to the diorama.

    I would pay to see that. (none / 0) (#169)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 05, 2019 at 08:30:04 PM EST
    Even drive to Branson.  Never been.

    Roy and Dale ... (none / 0) (#177)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 06, 2019 at 12:30:02 PM EST
    ... are planted out in the Victor Valley at Sunset Hills Memorial Park in Apple Valley, CA. Trivia Point No. 2: Roy Rogers was originally Leonard Franklin Slye from Cincinnati, OH.

    I am a font of useless trivia. (none / 0) (#178)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 06, 2019 at 12:34:03 PM EST
    Maybe that's just my training as an historian. I read things and they just get lodged inside my head.

    Maybe we should talk about ... (none / 0) (#180)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 06, 2019 at 02:22:51 PM EST
    ... how vulnerable and credulous right-wingers are to the disingenuous entreaties of con artists.

    I read (none / 0) (#181)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 06, 2019 at 03:16:04 PM EST
    an article where con men and scammers the norm with evangelicals. So there should be no surprise with Trump having so much support from evangelicals that other people have recognized this as a great way to con people.

    Too much information? (none / 0) (#182)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 06, 2019 at 03:27:06 PM EST
    In a word, yes:

    Los Angeles Times | Nov. 6, 2019
    Whitney Houston's best friend reveals a lesbian affair with the singer - "Seven years after the death of Whitney Houston, and well into a time of consciousness about gender and sexuality, one of the most sensational story lines in the late singer's life has remained: What was the deal between the singer and her best friend, Robyn Crawford?"

    Speaking for myself only, I'm certainly not interested in pursuing this particular story line. Just my opinion, of course, but I believe a true best friend would realize that some matters are inherently personal and best left unsaid in public, especially when the other party can no longer speak on her own behalf. Let's please allow Ms. Houston to rest in peace.


    Bloomberg is Ready to Jump In (none / 0) (#194)
    by RickyJim on Thu Nov 07, 2019 at 04:58:53 PM EST
    at age 77.  It is hard to regard him as the savior of the Democrats.  Why doesn't he use his wealth to back one of the moderates in the race?

    A Bloomberg candidacy (none / 0) (#195)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 07, 2019 at 06:43:14 PM EST
    Would get at least as many republican votes as democrat.

    A NY billionaire is not what the current left is interested in.  

    But those republicans and "independents" fed up with Trump might



    Maybe he's (none / 0) (#196)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 07, 2019 at 07:27:15 PM EST
    going to be a decoy to take votes away from Tulsi since she has GOP support.

    I really don't know what his game is but some are saying it's because Biden is faltering. I don't see how Bloomberg helps a faltering Biden unless he's going to take the heat and attempt to take down Bernie and Warren.


    I think his candidacy ... (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Yman on Thu Nov 07, 2019 at 09:05:10 PM EST
    ... would actually help Warren.

    I think (none / 0) (#202)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 08, 2019 at 10:13:40 AM EST
    It might be the time to have that particular conversation within  the party

    A futurist might see, with the gruesome death of the Republican Party, the birth of a new center right party as a result.  Giving us again two competitive parties.

    The left and the third way democrats Bloomberg Steyer etc

    I know. I love Rosy Scenario.

    May we live to see it.


    Here's something a little different... (none / 0) (#198)
    by desertswine on Thu Nov 07, 2019 at 09:26:13 PM EST
    Mexican archaeologists say they have made the first ever discovery of pits built around 15,000 years ago to trap mammoths.

    Announcing the find on Wednesday, researchers from Mexico's National Institute of Anthropology and History said the two pits contained about 824 bones from at least 14 mammoths.

    Hunters may have used torches to scare the mammals into the area with the traps, which are about 6ft (1.70m) deep and 25 yards in diameter, but one of the skulls found also had marks of a spear wound on the front.

    Mmmmm...  mammoth meat.

    The stuff the White House is saying (none / 0) (#201)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 08, 2019 at 08:17:38 AM EST
    About ANONYMOUS, the person, sure is inviting them to unmask and prove them liars.

    I expect this to happen fairly soon.

    ... are saying is pretty whacked out, too:

    The Guardian | November 8, 2019
    Secret chats involving Republican lawmaker reveal fresh evidence of plots and paranoia - "Leaked Signal messages from an online chat network around six-term Washington state Republican representative Matt Shea show new evidence of violent fantasies, surveillance of perceived adversaries, conspiracy thinking, Islamophobia, and support for white nationalists. [...] They also show participants, including Shea, preparing for economic and societal collapse even as they campaign for the secession of eastern Washington from the remainder of the state."

    "Yaah-HOOOOOO!! I'm cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs - cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs - cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs ..."