Memorial Day (Evening) Open Thread

Subtropical storm Alberto made landfall this afternoon in Laguna Beach, Florida near Panama City. It's moving north, up through the Florida Panhandle. I hope everyone stays safe. Two TV news persons died when a tree fell on their car.

On Donald Trump and Memorial Day, from David Frum in the NY Times:

It’s not news that there is something missing from Trump where normal human feelings should go. His devouring need for admiration from others is joined to an extreme, even pathological, inability to return any care or concern for those others. But Trump’s version of this disconnect comes most especially to the fore at times of national ritual. Donald Trump cares enormously about national symbols—the flag, the anthem—when he can use them to belittle, humiliate, and exclude.


On the Presidential election outcome in Colombia today: Ivan Duque, the hard-right candidate who wants to (among other bad ideas) ramp up the drug war, with US assistance, eradicate coca crops and pull back on the Peace deal with FARC got the most votes, but not enough to win. Duque has been (justly in my view) criticized as a puppet of former President and current Colombian Senator Alvaro Uribe Velez. There will be a run-off June 17 between leftist candidate Gustavo Petro and Ivan Duque.

Hopefully, the third candidate Fajardo, who got 23% of the vote, will throw his support behind Petro. Will it happen? Unknown right now.

I don't have the interest in another season of The Bachelorette. This season's guys don't seem very attractive and the Bachelorette is pretty but lacks sex appeal. The show seriously needs a reboot.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< An (Obligatory) Harvey Weinstein Thread | Celebrity Pardon Store Now Open >
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    Lucid Dreaming (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon May 28, 2018 at 10:04:00 PM EST
    this story at SLATE gives me an excuse to bring this up
    While a recent study found that 47 percent of respondents have had at least one lucid dream, Doyle's guests reported frequent and prolonged experiences. It is unclear why certain individuals are predisposed to lucidity, but research suggests that oneironauts tend to possess a greater puzzle-solving ability. It was also evident, from my conversations with dreamers, that training is critical for developing any innate potential.

    This is something I've been experiencing for many years.  It's become an important part of  my life but it's a little hard to talk about.  I've considered mentioning it here many times but was not sure how to approach the subject.  It sounds a little new age-ish.  It's really not.  I've mentioned it to people who as they listened politely I could tell they did not believe it.  So I've become sort of careful when and where I bring it up.

    But I bring it up because it's very very cool.  It's really almost impossible to describe what the experience is like if you have never experienced it.  OTOH I've encountered quite a few people who have experienced it at least once.

    For me it's not much like the therapist stuff described in the story.  It just happened to me.  I honestly don't remember the first time.  But it was many years ago.  As far back as the eighties at least.  For many years it was something that just happened.  Occasionally.  Then, as described in the story, I learned "keys" to tell me if I was dreaming.  I guess they would be different for everyone.   For me there is basically two.  Though there have been the odd trigger once in a great while.

    The first, that is the first time I learned to turn it on intentionally,  started years ago.   After I left NY.  I found I had a recurring dream.  It was never exactly the same but the point was I was looking for my car and couldn't remember where I parked it.  Always it a very urban NY like setting.  Which is odd because I never had a car when I lived in NY.  

    The second more recent trigger is another recurring dream.  Of trying to use a cell phone that I can't make work.  This has become a very common theme.  Like the parked car never exactly the same but very similar.  I'm trying to call someone, interestingly (I guess) always or nearly always some one dead, and the phone is displaying all this gibberish and pop ups or whatever and no matter how I try I can't make it work.


    I have gotten so those two dreams particularly and a couple of others less so I can always realize, in the dream, wait, this is a dream.  The story described what some people do to test this.  What I usually do is make everything I'm looking at either change to something else or disappear entirely so I can start on a sort of blank canvas.

    Again, anyway,

    I share this because, trust me, you really really should try to do this.  I can not tell you how to do it.  I have no idea about how to beyond what I have said.  But trust me.  Imagine for a moment a world where literally anything is possible.  

    For me there are basically to modes.  The first most common is to simple say ok I'm dreaming and just go with it.  The second a bit less frequent but not rare is actually taking charge and "making" things happen.

    Without going into TMI territory I will tell you most but not all of the latter are erotic in nature and leave the rest to your imagination.  

    Oddly I'm finding as years go by this whole lucid thing seems to be happening more frequently.  To say I'm fine with that would be an understatement.  Not long ago I was having a lucid experience and in the dream I remembered wondering if I was dreaming of if maybe I was dead.  When I woke up an wrote it down, that's one thing I have started doing which the story suggests is why they might be increasing, it occured to me it would be pretty cool if they increase and increase with old age  and I find that death is an unending lucid dream.  It's really not a bad approximation of heaven.

    I was curious about others experiences.

    I had a dream a few years ago where (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by McBain on Tue May 29, 2018 at 10:13:14 AM EST
    I was walking outdoors along a paved pathway.  I realized I was dreaming somehow and also realized it was clear I was supposed to follow this path.  

    I decided to challenge my brain and turn around and head the other direction and walk inside a building. It was pretty funny... it was as if an actor decided to walk away from the camera that was following him and walk completely off the set.  Suddenly my dream lacked the creative detail it previously had and I slowly woke up.  It was as if I broke the rules.


    Really? (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 04:03:58 PM EST
    No one?

    Occacionally, a (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 29, 2018 at 04:42:52 PM EST
    recurring dream: the long ago taking of a college calculus exam.  But, nothing as interesting as you describe.

    Recurring : taking the state bar exam (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by oculus on Wed May 30, 2018 at 01:21:30 PM EST
    in a different state.

    Excellent (none / 0) (#148)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 06:14:40 AM EST
    I hate that one (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 06:02:51 PM EST
    And I'm naked too. And that's when I know. Because I've been traumatized about sitting there naked while everyone is clothed so many times, I remember that I've been here before like this. That is when I know I'm dreaming.

    I have had that (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 29, 2018 at 06:08:24 PM EST
    dream. One I remember very vividly I was going into one of my college classes and everybody was staring at me. I looked at myself and noticed that I had no clothes on. I guess this dream is supposed to mean something but I don't know what it is.

    I'm always taking an exam (none / 0) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 06:31:57 PM EST
    That the outcome of my life hinges on.

    The being naked in public thing (none / 0) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 06:42:04 PM EST
    Is just about the most common dream in the world.  

    Google it.


    That is my give away though (none / 0) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 06:49:45 PM EST
    That I'm dreaming. That's when I know

    I have such strong (none / 0) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 06:52:15 PM EST
    Emotions about it, and I'm so upset and asking myself how this happened, it exposes the dream.

    Cool (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 06:52:22 PM EST
    Try using

    I had one in which (none / 0) (#106)
    by jondee on Thu May 31, 2018 at 08:56:03 AM EST
    I was walking around naked in the park and this dog came up and said "you do realize you don't have any clothes on, right?"

    Remembering (none / 0) (#52)
    by MKS on Tue May 29, 2018 at 07:24:42 PM EST
    days away from Finals that I have missed calculus class all semester and am likely to fail.

    Or, I am in my mid 40s and somehow getting ready to play senior football in high school--as a 40 year old.   The coach says go for it, and somehow I never actually make it into a game, as I slowly realize how ridiculous the whole thing is.  Had this one over a number of years.


    Yes (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 07:38:07 PM EST
    Another common theme I've had many times.  The "test" you are not prepared for.

    Most of my dreams are not lucid.


    The "lucid" part (none / 0) (#54)
    by MKS on Tue May 29, 2018 at 08:42:26 PM EST
    being when I realize I am no longer in high school or college, etc., and so I must be dreaming.

    I get these types of dreams once a week or so.  


    When you have to worry (none / 0) (#155)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 10:16:18 AM EST
    is when you dream about an old guy offering to give you a boat ride across a river.

    I too have the "unprepared for an exam" (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by vml68 on Tue May 29, 2018 at 11:08:22 PM EST
    dream quite often. Thankfully, unlike MT and Ga6thdem, I am never naked. One stressor at a time, please!

    I have other fairly recurrent dreams. I don't know if these qualify as "lucid".

    In one, I am usually in some foreign country. But, no matter where I am, I am always able to speak and understand whatever language is spoken there. As the dream progresses, I am amazed at my own fluency in the language and then soon after, I start questioning how it is possible for me to be fluent in a language I have never learnt or heard spoken before. The answer is always the same, I knew it in another life and that's when I wake up!

    In another dream, I am stuck in a relationship (ex-boyfriend) in which I am absolutely miserable and I keep waiting for my husband to find me and get me out of it. He never comes for me because he thinks that I want to be in that relationship or because he and I have fought and he has moved on. In both scenarios, I get more and more upset, almost to a point I feel like I am having a panic attack because I am so afraid I will never break free of ex-boyfriend. Then it gets to where I realize that it has to be a dream because I know my husband would never give up on us. I wake up pissed at my husband for not reacting appropriately in my dream :-)!!


    It's kind of a creepy topic Capt (none / 0) (#38)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 05:58:41 PM EST
    You don't want to know my dreams and I'm willfully doing in them. Trust me

    It can be creepy (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 06:40:59 PM EST
    You will notice I gave no real content.  But if you didn't you really should read that piece.  

    Once discussing this someone ask me if I never had "nightmares".  I really found that part of the story interesting.  The part that says no matter what you see in a dream, it's part of you.  Instead of running from monsters you try being nice to it. Giving it a gift.  Asking what it wants.

    Because I do have what some people would call nightmares sometimes.  But you know me well enough to know dark imagery does not bother me.  I believe that quality might be the result of a life time of very strange dreams and not the reverse.
    Trust me when I say I've had dreams I would never recount to a living sole.  But for some reason I can be detached for the most part.  But it's also true there are some I do not wish to dwell on.

    As I said.  It can be difficult to talk about.  As most important things are.


    You think lucid dreaming is important? (none / 0) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 07:00:24 PM EST
    I'm not sure

    It is an odd stress reliever, I'll give it that. And stress is a trigger for me, big stressors like moving or changing jobs when I worked. If I am undergoing negative stress it can flip it, and I begin to feel the stress positively the next day.

    I just filed it under private, weird, cool, and maybe even a little unsettling.

    I never had a lucid dream that made me feel better about the Iraq War though or my spouse being deployed. No magic window in my psyche ever opened for that.


    Fair point (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 07:06:52 PM EST
    Never had a war to deal with on a personal basis.

    But I'm not alone in thinking lucid dreaming is important.  Part of that story is about using it to treat PTSD.


    Hmmmm? (none / 0) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 07:15:27 PM EST
    Hmmm? I'm doing a leadership workshop next month. One of those things where you get your psyche poked and trampled on.

    I will try to focus on it then.

    I did something like that about 25 yrs ago and it was a trigger for it.

    I'll try to focus. Hard though, because I will dream heavily when I've effed everything up in the workshop, so that will be what I'm trying to dig out of.


    Hey Tracy, I remember you mentioning (none / 0) (#83)
    by jondee on Wed May 30, 2018 at 10:31:41 AM EST
    at one point that you were interested in Buddhism. Have you ever listened to any of Ajahn Brahm's talks on youtube? He's really good. Very positive without being at all superficial.

    I can't do what he says, but mine is a thorny, tangled karmic web ;)


    I used to meditate regularly (none / 0) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 30, 2018 at 09:09:14 PM EST
    And read different practitioners until I had Josh. There was something about fighting insurance, and how the insurance companies were legally successfully denying very sick people, and I stopped. It's really hard contemplating letting go enough to let go...if that makes any sense.

    Josh's birth was really horrible too. He was born in a military hospital and they refused to fly him to a NICU. They thought he was going to die no matter what anyone did. He didn't.

    They fought with me about nursing him too, said he wouldn't be able to, but he did. Months later we discovered he was aspirating. If he wasn't nursed, he would have developed pneumonia from aspirated formula. Aspirated breast milk absorbs with little issue. It was the path the got me through that. Don't know if I can grow enough to get back on it :)

    I will check him out on YouTube.

    My husband brought a 400 yr old Buddha home from South Korea. It is one of my favorite things. The Buddha has bees resting on him. I haven't been able to find much on the significance of the bees. Perhaps something lost in time.


    Made me look (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 30, 2018 at 11:02:26 PM EST
    When the Buddha observed rites in the Parilyeyok forest, a monkey brought him a beehive rich with nourishing honey. ... To this day Madhu Purnima is celebrated in Bangladesh and India by gifts of honey and fruit--both products of the bees' labor--to Buddhist monasteries.
    Buddhism and Pollinators

    Josh is lucky to have a mom like you (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by jondee on Thu May 31, 2018 at 06:18:27 AM EST
    He is (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 31, 2018 at 01:59:57 PM EST
    for sure.

    Thank you jondee (none / 0) (#103)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 31, 2018 at 07:45:24 AM EST
    He's headed off into his life now, and I'm going to have to get one.

    Don't we all (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by jondee on Thu May 31, 2018 at 07:49:37 AM EST
    the good news is that it's there for the getting.

    Josh is going to be just fine (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Zorba on Thu May 31, 2018 at 04:16:14 PM EST
    I'm not saying his life will be easy, because of his physical problems, but he is so smart.  Mr. Zorba and I were very impressed with him when we met you all.
    And he has you and his dad at his back.

    I wouldn't say I have lucid dreams (none / 0) (#71)
    by CST on Wed May 30, 2018 at 07:48:41 AM EST
    But I do occasionally "figure out" that I'm dreaming mid-dream.  It's usually some kind of inconsistency with the real world that just makes it all click, often something very inane in an otherwise absurd dream.  The most particular example of this I can think of is one time I had a dream I was coming home from vacation, and there was a war going on on my street.  The cops and residents were throwing grenades and shooting at each other in the park at the end of the block.  I figured out it was a dream because in the dream I was driving, I was on my way home from vacation, I was on my street, and my friend was still in the car.  I knew that if we'd gone on a vacation together I would have dropped her off at her house before getting to my street.  And that's how I "woke up" in that dream.  

    It's usually something like that, but then the dream just kind of gets stuck in a limbo state where I go through the motions of the dream knowing it's not real, rather than me controlling it.


    That's the definition of lucid (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 30, 2018 at 07:53:51 AM EST
    From the linked story,

    Dr. Keith Hearne, a psychologist, defines lucid dreaming as becoming "fully aware of being in a dream."

    The taking controller part takes practice.  Or training or both I guess.  


    I pretty much had to develop (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by Zorba on Thu May 31, 2018 at 11:11:59 AM EST
    Lucid dreaming when I was a young kid, out of self defense.
    I had horrible nightmares, to the extent that I was afraid to go to sleep.  I finally learned how to let myself know it was just a dream and to wake myself up, although I could sometimes also "order" the monsters to jump off a cliff or something and destroy themselves, before I woke myself.  After that, the nightmares didn't really bother me, and they also happened less and less often.

    The thing that freaked me out as an adult was sleep paralysis.  This is when you are convinced you are awake, but you cannot move a muscle.  For me, at least, it was also always accompanied by a feeling of dread or doom, the feeling that someone was going to break into the house or something else horrible was going to happen, and I couldn't do a thing about it.
    Fortunately, I finally learned that it mainly happens when I fall asleep on my back, which I trained myself to stop doing, so sleep paralysis hasn't occurred in quite awhile.

    This comment has gone on too long.  At some point, I may write about the absolute creepiest dream I ever had.


    There is a ton of stuff (none / 0) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 30, 2018 at 07:56:15 AM EST
    Online about how to develop the skills.  Seems worth the time since we spend about a third of our life sleeping.

    Now my dreams will (none / 0) (#75)
    by fishcamp on Wed May 30, 2018 at 09:46:09 AM EST
    be about all your dreams.  My usual dream, that I have mentioned before, is running between garages covered in hundreds of baby red spiders while being chased by a man wearing  ten cowboy hats.  Thankfully I had all my clothes on.

    I would say sorry (none / 0) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 30, 2018 at 11:47:30 AM EST
    But it sounds like an improvement

    Roseanne Barr (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 11:16:24 AM EST
    Needs to STFU.  

    seriously, just STFU

    Barr is a goner. (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 29, 2018 at 12:40:46 PM EST
    Maybe, Bari Weiss still will defend her, but not ABC.    And, MIchelle Wolf did not even joke about Sarah Huckabee S's looks. And, the right wingers went nuts (easy since already there). Just said she burns facts and uses the ashes to create a perfect smokey eye.  (of course, minds did go to from the jocular to the ocular).

    Canceled (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by jondee on Tue May 29, 2018 at 12:52:09 PM EST
    I remember Rosanne telling Norm McDonald on his podcast that she had a car hood ornament driven into her skull when she was a child..

    Maybe another one would reverse the effects of the first one.


    Honestly, I liked the rebooted 'Roseanne.' (none / 0) (#59)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue May 29, 2018 at 09:42:00 PM EST
    I always seek to separate the artist's politics from the work product. It was a well-written show. But even though it was No. 1 in the ratings, Ms. Barr just couldn't keep from her big mouth shut. The horrible stuff she tweeted this morning about Chelsea Clinton, George Soros and Valerie Jarrett was simply unforgivable. ABC made the right call here by cancelling the series as a consequence.

    Donald, now that the trade winds (none / 0) (#78)
    by fishcamp on Wed May 30, 2018 at 09:51:00 AM EST
    are about to end, I think, will the vog drift to your side of the island and possibly to other islands?

    We were in Waikoloa this past weekend for ... (none / 0) (#98)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed May 30, 2018 at 10:01:40 PM EST
    ... the Hawaii Democratic Party's state convention. The vog was pretty bad in Kailua-Kona and Keahou, but not up the Kohala coast where we were.

    Surprisingly, it really hasn't been too bad in Hilo. If the trade winds dissipate, meteorologists are predicting that the vog will likely affect Oahu and Maui much more than us, because the prevailing upper atmosphere wind currents tend to blow westerly. You can see the ash plumes from Hilo when it's clear, and they're leaning away from us.



    I don't know if it was the right call (none / 0) (#86)
    by McBain on Wed May 30, 2018 at 12:51:53 PM EST
    so much as the only call.  I don't think they had much of a choice.  Sponsors would have backed out.  There would have been protests/boycotts.

    Is it right for the people involved with that show to be out of a job because of what one person said? Probably not but that's how it goes. We don't know all the rules of political correctness but we do know at least one rule... not to say what she said.

    I always seek to separate the artist's politics from the work product.

    Me too.  Some of my favorite actors, filmmakers, musicians, artists and athetles have significantly different world views than me.  Speaking of that...
    Glad to see the Golden State Warriors advance to the NBA finals again.  

    Roseanne sounds like ... (none / 0) (#99)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed May 30, 2018 at 10:06:41 PM EST
    ... she's mentally ill, and I don't mean that in a flippant manner. It sounds like she's in a manic episode, up all night tweeting apologies and then deleting them, and then re-tweeting some nasty anti-Semitic stuff about George Soros. She's obviously unstable and not well. I hope somebody gets her some help.

    I can't tell if she's racist, crazy or both (none / 0) (#110)
    by McBain on Thu May 31, 2018 at 10:18:02 AM EST
    Sounds like she might try to get the show back on the air somehow.  There's been at least some sympathy towards her.

    Jimmy Kimmel

    What @TheRealRoseanne said is indefensible, but angrily attacking a woman who is obviously not well does no good for anyone.  Please take a breath and remember that mental health issues are real.  The Roseanne I know could probably use some compassion and help right now.


    My guess is she's not mentally ill. (none / 0) (#114)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 31, 2018 at 11:40:26 AM EST
    At least not the way I think you meant it.

    If you meant mentally ill like she's got a substance abuse problem, then, ya, that would be my guess too.


    However, on second thought, (none / 0) (#115)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 31, 2018 at 11:51:46 AM EST
    your description of her does align pretty well with how my mom was when she was manic. All that, plus a super-hefty dose of impatience and anger.

    And, if she's like my mom was, she may believe that nothing can touch her; that she can take on all comers and beat them without breaking a sweat, including alcohol & drugs, etc.

    So, yeah, maybe so. Who knows.


    ...and there you go, (none / 0) (#130)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 31, 2018 at 03:51:02 PM EST
    apparently she's said for decades that she has multiple personality disorder. So there's that...

    I am with (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by MKS on Thu May 31, 2018 at 08:15:56 PM EST
    Chris Hayes.  The attempt to explain it away by saying she is sick is too easy.

     No, she is typical of many Trump supporters and Trump himself.  She is reflecting him.


    I worked on set with her, back in the day. (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed May 30, 2018 at 01:32:09 PM EST
    When she was with Tom Arnold.

    She could be very nice, but most often was simply oblivious to anyone else but herself and Tom. Tom had to physically cajole her into doing just about every scene.

    She never learned any of her lines; she simply took a pair of scissors and cut the lines out of the screenplay and taped them to the props around her, so she could read them.

    Pretty much a daily train wreck.


    Sounds like (none / 0) (#94)
    by Zorba on Wed May 30, 2018 at 05:46:07 PM EST
    A lazy, self-centered, spoiled brat.

    Pretty sure that's what (none / 0) (#7)
    by McBain on Tue May 29, 2018 at 11:33:55 AM EST
    everyone involved with her career wish she would do.  Assuming she meant what I think she meant I could see this killing her successful show.

    We can hope (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 11:36:42 AM EST
    Personally I'm sure it will add to the shows audience

    Sponsors might pull out (none / 0) (#11)
    by McBain on Tue May 29, 2018 at 12:25:37 PM EST
    It will be interesting to hear what Bill Maher says this weekend.  He's made similar jokes about Trump and usually defends comedians who say something offensive.

    My initial prediction is this is a career killer but we'll have to see how it plays out a bit more.  


    Celebrities and Twitter (none / 0) (#13)
    by jondee on Tue May 29, 2018 at 12:31:37 PM EST
    mix about as well as celebrities and Fentanyl do.

    Done (none / 0) (#16)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 29, 2018 at 01:10:30 PM EST
    deal, according to CNN her show has been canceled. Queue up the snowflakes on the right complaining about her first amendment rights.

    Why wouldn't they? (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by jondee on Tue May 29, 2018 at 01:37:15 PM EST
    it'd be just like when they went to the mat for the kneeling NFL players.

    Good (none / 0) (#19)
    by MKS on Tue May 29, 2018 at 02:25:41 PM EST
    Not the first time for Roseanne.  She had previously compared Susan Rice to an ape.

    Roseanne shows that "shaking things up" and being a Trump supporter is all about racism and bigotry.


    Not sorry to see it go (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 04:00:59 PM EST
    But this has the feeling of playing into a Trump meme.

    IMO it might have been better to keep the show and muzzle her


    Trump did say (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 04:03:24 PM EST
    This is a show about "us"!!

    A little to much so.  As it turns out.


    Watched the first 5 minutes of Don Lemon (none / 0) (#55)
    by McBain on Tue May 29, 2018 at 08:51:14 PM EST
    tonight.  He managed to turn this into something that will probably help Trump.  I shouldn't have been surprised but I was.  

    Yes ... We know (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by Yman on Tue May 29, 2018 at 09:02:16 PM EST
    Trump or one of his supporters make some incredibly offensive statement (bigoted, racist, sexist, etc.) and the media reports it, at which point you blame the media and say it will help Trump, because Trump/Trump supporter is the victim.

    Lather, rinse, repeat.

    It's called concern trolling.


    There are a lot of (5.00 / 4) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 09:17:34 PM EST
    Pi$$ed off rednecks tonight.  To the extent that Trumps very existence depends on keeping people pi$$ed off, in could help him in a way.

    But the more I hear about it the better I feel about the political implications.  We may be in Trumps America but there are still rules.  And you may have a man in the white house but you are NOT a majority.

    Just heard something funny about ABC congratulating itself about this.

    That the bar has been lowered to the point that all Roseanne had to do to stay on top was NOT compare a black woman to an ape.  And she couldn't help herself.  Not exactly a high watermark.


    What sort of bias (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 09:35:35 PM EST
    Could you have that would cause you to say such a/an ...........................................................................................extraordi nary thing?

    I watched Dom Lemon

    I think you're in some sort of fugue state


    Fugue state? (none / 0) (#74)
    by Zorba on Wed May 30, 2018 at 09:38:55 AM EST
    You're being exceedingly kind to him with that characterization.  ;-)

    If you watched it (none / 0) (#87)
    by McBain on Wed May 30, 2018 at 01:12:48 PM EST
    then you saw the classic overreaction that's all too common on cable news and the internet.  Somehow, other people including the president get blamed for one woman's words.  

    I watched it, too (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by Yman on Wed May 30, 2018 at 04:58:20 PM EST
    There was no "overreaction" at all.  There was a massive underreaction by people who sympathize or agree with her scummy, racist opinions and nutjob conspiracy theories.  Some of them even try to blame the media.

    But no one needs to tell you that ...


    Be very interesting (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 04:35:58 PM EST
    How Trump and/or Marsha respond to this tonight at the rally.  

    It seems unlikely it will not be addressed.

    DJTj has been retweeting Roseanne all day.


    Trump will be (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 29, 2018 at 04:57:32 PM EST
    fair on both sides as he was in Charlottesville. As with NFL players who take a knee, Trump will say that Miss Barr should not only lose her job, but "shouldn't be in the country."   Believe me... a lot of people are saying that.

    He didn't mention it (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 09:42:03 PM EST
    Guard rails

    Hannity says it's abhorrent (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 04:44:29 PM EST
    Seems like they are trying to be guardrails

    Did Trump Jr.re-tweet her remarks ... (none / 0) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue May 29, 2018 at 09:49:24 PM EST
    ... about George Soros being a Nazi agent who capitalized on the deaths of his fellow Jews? The Valerie Jarrett / Planet of the Apes nonsense was bad enough, but to me the Soros tweet was the most hateful comment of all today. WTF is wrong with these people, that they'd feel it's perfectly okay to traffic in all this openly anti-Semitic and racist rhetoric?

    How about her response (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 10:14:21 PM EST
    To being told the planet if the apes tweet was racist?  She said -

    Muslims r NOT a race.

    Seriously.  That's a quote.


    A twitter-er who clams to closely (none / 0) (#89)
    by oculus on Wed May 30, 2018 at 01:28:42 PM EST
    follow politics SD. has no idea who Valorie Jarrett is.

    He (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 10:31:24 PM EST
    These right-wingers are fckn crackpots. (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed May 30, 2018 at 05:11:33 AM EST
    George Soros was only 14 years old when Nazi Germany surrendered in May 1945. The notion that he was somehow an adolescent Jewish Nazi agent is patently absurd.

    Yes, and (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Zorba on Wed May 30, 2018 at 09:48:34 AM EST
    He was all of nine years old when WW II began.
    These people do not deal in facts.  They believe what they want to believe, what they are told to believe, by Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Breitbart News, Donald Trump, et al.
    They swallow it all.  If you show them facts to the contrary, they call it "fake news."
    I do think we will eventually climb out if this abyss, but it's going to take awhile, and an even longer while to repair the damage that the Trump administration have done (so far) in only sixteen months.



    These rw conspiracy theories.. (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by jondee on Wed May 30, 2018 at 10:01:54 AM EST
    I think a lot of the people promulgating this stuff are the same people who thought The Rapture was coming when Bush Jr was president.

    When their one big apocalyptic conspiracy theory didn't pan out, their fall-back was Soros, crisis actors, The New World Order, pizzagate, etc etc


    You know what's really bothering me, Zorba? (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed May 30, 2018 at 10:13:03 PM EST
    I find it both appalling and pathetic that the cable news networks are devoting about four times as much airtime to the cancellation of "Roseanne," than to any inquiry why Puerto Rico's death toll from Hurricane Maria (4,645) wound up being over 70 times higher than the official count we were previously given (64).

    Screw "Roseanne." FEMA's handling of Puerto Rico's relief in the wake of Maria is the real scandal du jour here.



    The networks (none / 0) (#105)
    by Zorba on Thu May 31, 2018 at 08:25:37 AM EST
    not only have the collective attention span of a very young toddler, they seem unwilling or unable to deal with heavy, very important topics like the Puerto Rican death toll.

    Of course Fox won't touch it, but what about the others?  Are they too afraid of airing anything that might show the Administration as liars and incompetents?  (Or deliberate "incompetents.")

    Where's Walter  Cronkite when we need him?


    Cher should've done that (none / 0) (#77)
    by jondee on Wed May 30, 2018 at 09:50:42 AM EST
    to Gregg Allman.

    Fwiw, I always liked her better with that Italian earth mother look.


    I'm of the opinion that Cher's celebrity tended to overshadow her talent as an actress. Nonetheless, she won an Oscar for "Moonstruck," and arguably should've won two others for "Silkwood" (for which she was nominated as Supporting Actress) and "Mask" (for which she won Best Actress at the Cannes Film Festival). While she has a relatively thin movie portfolio, she chose her roles wisely and made the most of her time onscreen.

    Where do these people come from? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Chuck0 on Tue May 29, 2018 at 11:55:54 AM EST
    Porn causes school shootings.

    Are they allowed to drive? How do they manage to dress and feed themselves?

    Forrest was right.

    Dear God (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Yman on Tue May 29, 2018 at 05:44:08 PM EST
    The best part of her statement was the part where she talks about how people get their pr0n.

    "Pornography," she said.

    "It's available on the shelf when you walk in the grocery store. Yeah, you have to reach up to get it, but there's pornography there," she continued."

    Wait till she finds out about the interwebs!


    But, of course. (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue May 29, 2018 at 10:02:40 PM EST
    "It's available on the shelf when you walk in the grocery store. Yeah, you have to reach up to get it, but there's pornography there."

    Yeah, I bet she found it right there in Aisle 5, next to the Lucky Charms and Capn' Crunch -- boxes and boxes of an illicit video series called "Pop Tarts."

    Join us next time, boys and girls, when Congresswoman Black tries to explain to you where the "Frosted" in Sugar Frosted Flakes comes from.



    I learn new things on TL all the time and am (none / 0) (#84)
    by vml68 on Wed May 30, 2018 at 11:04:46 AM EST
    very appreciative of it.
    I am not sure how much finding out the slang definition of "frosted" has contributed to my continuing edumacation.

    Not only that, (none / 0) (#79)
    by Zorba on Wed May 30, 2018 at 09:53:03 AM EST
    They can vote.  And worse, run for office and win, which means there are people even stupider than she is who vote for her.
    Be afraid.  Be very afraid.

    Ivanka, Businesswoman Extraordinaire. (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 29, 2018 at 12:31:35 PM EST
    Miss Trump has won 13 trademarks in China over the last three months and 8 provisional trademarks pending a three month comment period.  The trademarks enable marketing of products from baby blankets to coffins, and a lot in-between, such as perfume, make-up, coffee, honey, chocolate (for beautiful cakes),and books.  Of course, these business interests are in a family-run trust with profits for Ivanka.

    In other news, Trump is working on saving jobs--in China.  Trump wants the cheap Chinese phone company, ZTE, "back in business, fast."  ZTE has been blacklisted by the US Dept of Commerce because it sold its products (with US parts) to North Korea and Iran in violation of US Sanctions Law.

     Trump may not have been aware of this law (or the DOD's ZTE phone ban because espionage) since he may have been preoccupied with getting the Chinese government loan of $500 million for a Trump-project in Indonesia.

    Where's Melanie? (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 04:15:17 PM EST

    The White House has released almost no information about Trump's condition since May 14, when her spokeswoman said the first lady was undergoing a routine embolization procedure at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center "to treat a benign kidney condition."

    Her team chose to leave unexplained her extended five-day hospital stay for a procedure that is typically completed in one, or her subsequent disappearance from events where the public has come to expect to see her next to her husband.

    One Word: (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 29, 2018 at 04:22:00 PM EST

    Gov. Eric Greitens (R. MO) (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 29, 2018 at 04:37:47 PM EST
    will resign the governorship of Missouri. "This ordeal hs been designed to cause maximum damage to his family..." the governor said in his announcement.

    Mr. Greitens was initially charged with invasion of privacy for taking nude photos of a woman he had an affair with so as to blackmail her.

    No ethos for this Navy SEAL (none / 0) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 09:43:53 PM EST
    Only pathos

    Cowardice is the new courage, predation is the new benevolence


    I'll say this to no one in particular (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by vicndabx on Thu May 31, 2018 at 02:27:51 PM EST
    Samantha Bee <> Roseanne Barr

    If you can't see that you may be an idiot.

    WTH is going on with people in this country? Do words no longer have any meaning?  Do people no longer understand context?

    One America News Network host Liz Wheeler tweeted that she is "waiting for the liberal outrage and firing of Samantha Bee."

    NBC's Megyn Kelly called Bee's language "disgusting" and criticized the media coverage of Bee's segment. "How is this acceptable?" Kelly wrote on Twitter. "And how are we expected to take any of these publications seriously if they gleefully repost something like this at the same time they (rightfully) condemn @therealroseanne?

    I think it is simple. (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Chuck0 on Thu May 31, 2018 at 04:05:22 PM EST
    It is absolutely impossible that Valerie Jarrett is the product of coitus between a member of the planet of the apes and the muslim brotherhood. On the other hand, it could be entirely possible that Ivanka Bone Spurs is a feckless c**t.

    Apples and oranges.


    Yes, (5.00 / 3) (#133)
    by KeysDan on Thu May 31, 2018 at 04:17:18 PM EST
    and the media bloviators are up to their false equivalencies, in an attempt to mollify the Roseanne Barr deplorables.

     No difference, apparently, between a racist and crude slur and a crude ad hominem to make a point about a presidential adviser'r tone deafness.  Sam Bee's mistake was using c**t, instead of the the Trump approved, Evangelical muligan-ish, pussy.

    But, the critical issue is that no one seems to be explaining how the First Amendment works.  Either in the case of Barr or Bee.   When presidential spokeswoman, Sarah Huckabee S. speaks from the WH on behalf of the president saying " her (Sam Bee) disgusting comment and show are not fit for broadcast,"  this gets pretty close to offending the First Amendment protection of government interference in free speech.  

    Maybe the real problem is that Samantha Bee used the adjective, feckless, in her ad hominem, making it really sound unbecoming to a princess.

      Samantha Bee will probably survive this episode, since so few deplorables even know who she is.  If so, I hope Samantha will be more circumspect and just call this presidential adviser,  Crooked Ivanka.

     Perhaps, Hillary can steel the poor newbie against this and the thirty years of assorted slurs, curses, and assorted pejoratives by Republicans, including operative Rover STone's political organization against Clinton, Citizens United Not Timid, and C. U. Next Tuesday.


    No, it's not the same, but still (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by Peter G on Thu May 31, 2018 at 09:24:06 PM EST
    there is no excuse for calling any woman a "c*nt" under any circumstances. None. I do like using the adjective "feckless," though; I mean, how many people, much less how many of the deplorable "base," have any idea what it means? I myself have been feeling a bit short of feck recently, if not entirely feckless.

    Hate that word, I do, and it's not (5.00 / 3) (#163)
    by Anne on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 11:51:14 AM EST
    one I would use, ever.

    I do find the selective outrage of Trump and his feckless followers to be nauseatingly hypocritical.  We've all seen the pictures of Trump supporters sporting t-shirts with that word on it - usually directed at Hillary.  We've all heard about Ted Nugent's comments.

    I'm pretty sure it's a word that has rolled out of the overly-pursed lips of one Donald John Trump, but GOD FORBID someone would use it to describe the daughter Trump himself once called a "piece of a$$," a woman who had the utter gall to post a picture of herself cradling her darling child at a time when many asylum-seeking moms and dads had been separated from their babies for weeks and months on end.

    The same woman who has done NOTHING for America's women and children but mouth platitudes while she waits for the wheels of government to load up a dozen or so Chinese trademarks.

    That word Samantha Bee used might be the nicest thing Mrs. Kushner could be labeled.


    I agree, Peter. (none / 0) (#178)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 02, 2018 at 06:59:26 PM EST
    I love Samantha Bee's show, but I literally cringed when she used that word to describe Ivanka Trump.

    Ivanka is a woman of wealth and privilege who was born on third base and thinks she hit a triple. But she's no more responsible for her father's immigration policy, than is Chelsea Clinton for her own father's questionable decision to pursue welfare reform with Newt Gingrich.

    Ms. Bee really should've known better than to allow emotion to get the best of her.



    I disagree, Donald. (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jun 02, 2018 at 08:40:41 PM EST
    Chelsea Clinton was not a senior advisor to her father. She had no job in his administration. She was a teenager during Bill Clinton' time in office.

    Ivanka Trump, on the other hand, is a senior advisor to President Trump. She holds an actual, official job in his administration complete with security clearance. As a senior member of this admstraton Ivanka bears at least as much responsibility for immigration policy as John Kelly or Stephen Miller or any other senior member of this administration.

    As to whether Sam Bee should have called Ivanka a "feckless c**" , it is a word I choose not to use, but, considering President Trump's own use of the word c**, and its proliferation on all manor of merchandise sported by Trump supporters and targeted at Hillary Clinton, the faux outrage expressed by the Trump administration and its lackeys is disingenuous at best.


    No idea why that section appears (none / 0) (#180)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jun 02, 2018 at 08:42:12 PM EST
    in bold.

    Just fyi (none / 0) (#182)
    by jmacWA on Sun Jun 03, 2018 at 05:38:31 AM EST
    Its the  **asterisks**.  I bet you used 3 twice and that was interpreted to be markup of the text in between the first and last

    Thank you. I did not know that (none / 0) (#184)
    by caseyOR on Sun Jun 03, 2018 at 03:31:56 PM EST
    about asterisks.

    Surely we can criticize Ivanka Trump ... (none / 0) (#188)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 04, 2018 at 01:54:28 AM EST
    ... without referencing her derogatorily through our own use of the word "c*nt." At this point in her father's presidency, it's readily apparent that her presence in the West Wing is purely ornamental, and that she holds little if any sway over her father's decision making. Trump respects her husband Jared Kushner's opinions far more than he does hers.

    But more to my point, I fail to see what if anything gets accomplished whenever we degrade our own share of the public discourse with our use of such crude and vile vernaculars -- particularly when there are such obvious double standards at work here, given the wide discrepancies by which Democrats and Republicans are judged respectively on such matters by the mainstream media.

    Yes, absolutely, it's not fair but then, very few things in politics are. And that's all the more reason in these troubled times for Democrats and their allies to avoid such unforced errors to the extent possible.



    Bee's (none / 0) (#153)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 10:06:49 AM EST
    comments were ugly, Barr's were ugly and racist, which IMO jumps bumps them up an order of magnitude.

    Of course  Ted Nugent has topped them both for decades..... and he gets invited to the WH.


    First (none / 0) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 10:24:02 AM EST
    I love Sam.  I really do.
    She just saved Rosanne.  Was that the point?  Who knows but otherwise it was dumb.  Just fking dumb.  Sam is not dumb.

    Her show won't be cancelled, I think.

    Let's hope.  If not, IMO this was approved


    Rosanne has a history of saying/doing (none / 0) (#157)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 10:28:30 AM EST
    odd/stupid/offensive things... the Hitler pic, the national anthem debacle, she even tweeted the address of George Zimmerman's parents years ago.

    I had never heard of Samantha Bee.  If this is her fist stupid comment, I don't think she or her producers should be fired. In general, I don't like the knee jerk reaction to demand someone should lose their job.


    Samatha Bee's (none / 0) (#165)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 12:22:48 PM EST
    offending word was bleeped out in the broadcast. It was uncensored on the clip that was posted on-line, although subsequently (the next afternoon) removed. The show broadcasts at 10:30 pm on Wednesday night.

    "Full Frontal" airs ... (none / 0) (#189)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 04, 2018 at 02:04:30 AM EST
    ... at 4:30 p.m. HST due to the six-hour time difference between Hawaii and the east coast, so more often than not I'm still at work. It also re-runs here on Friday evenings, but that's well after midnight for you folks back east. I tend to catch the show on YouTube, and so I caught the unbleeped version of Samantha Bee.

    The GOP (5.00 / 4) (#140)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 31, 2018 at 09:09:08 PM EST
    has been calling Hillary that four letter word for a long time. Nobody said one thing about it. Personally I don't think the word should be used ever.


    However, in some cultures it's pretty common slang. In Australian slang it's used kind of as a term of endearment: "That Bobby, he's a funny c*nt." Kinda like how the N word can be used here in the US.


    Yes, while still powerfully offensive, (none / 0) (#166)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 12:25:53 PM EST
    it is a gender-neutral slur in UK.

    Understand, and (none / 0) (#177)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jun 02, 2018 at 01:32:33 PM EST
    never ever consider using that word.  But, I believe its use by Samantha Bee needs to be taken in the context of (a)Sam being a prominent feminist comedian, and (b)the piece was to draw attention to the ghastly Trump policy of grabbing children out of the arms of immigrant mothers, by contrast with a presidential advisor/president's daughter in a loving Madonna and Child photo.

    It has been claimed that Ivanka and Child was simply a tone deaf happenstance, but, with this Administration it is also possible that this was another of those "messages" to the deplorables--this one being of re-assurance, don't fret this immigration policy applies only to Black and Browns, White mothers and babies are exempt and safe.

    Yes, Sam could have made the point without the language used, and, importantly, not used feckless making the deplorables reach for a dictionary (the second word they knew from their Trump rallies).

     But, Sam, I believe, was using the word (a woman to a woman) as a powerful slur as well as in the manner that oppressed groups often appropriate a such a slur, transforming it to transgressive from oppressive.  


    Greek food (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 02:15:09 PM EST
    Making Greek meatballs for dinner.  Made Tzatziki sauce last night.  Going to serve the meatballs and Tzatziki sauce on pita breads, with feta, lettuce, tomatoes, onions, sautéed peppers, and pitted Kalamata olives.

    Ahh! Sounds like a delightful (none / 0) (#172)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 02:33:42 PM EST
    summer supper. Add ice cold beer or a chilled rose' and that is all one needs.

    Beer and (none / 0) (#173)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 02:45:54 PM EST
    Hard cider are in the fridge, even as we speak (or type).

    Saw the Han Solo movie today (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 08:44:16 PM EST
    it was OK....  7/10.... B-   Not great, not terrible. You probably don't need to see this in the theater.  The new Han Solo guy does a good job but the story is kind of blah.  The Lando is pansexual hype was mostly hype.  

    Anyone see anything else new?  I'm pretty tired of superhero movies.  Any good small or independent films like A Quiet Place or Three Billboards?

    I've seen Solo (none / 0) (#181)
    by linea on Sun Jun 03, 2018 at 01:03:02 AM EST
    I have friends and film enthusiasts who bring me to most every film. I'm tired of comic book based films too but I see enough films to realize that I'm not always the target audience and that these films offer something that other people strongly identify with or strongly enjoy.

    I appreciate the `night out for film' experience even if the film is lackluster. For me, it's more about the overall experience than the actual film. If that makes sense.

    In the box office right now, you might like:
    A Quiet Place
    Dead Pool 2


    Go see "The Rider." (none / 0) (#190)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 04, 2018 at 02:40:38 AM EST
    It's received near universal acclaim, with many critics hailing it as the best American film thus far in 2018. Having just seen it this afternoon, I'm hard-pressed to disagree with their assessment. Simply put, this is a beautiful movie. What's even more amazing is that its director and screenwriter Chloé Zhao hails from Beijing, and her work here is already drawing comparisons to that of the great director Terrence Malick.

    It's the third of June.. (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by desertswine on Sun Jun 03, 2018 at 01:10:03 PM EST
    another sleepy, dusty, delta day.

    (I jest know'd it was a baby)

    Bill Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 04, 2018 at 10:03:10 AM EST
    Needs to STFU.

    Seriously.  Just STFU and retire.  As a friend and supporter. For the love of God.  STFU.

    Happy Starbucks Racial Bias Training Day (none / 0) (#3)
    by McBain on Tue May 29, 2018 at 10:28:06 AM EST
    All Starbucks stores are closed today.  As far as I can tell this is because of the one Philadelphia incident.

    Starbucks' employees will participate in the racial bias program that will include videos of top executives and board members speaking to the importance of diversity and improving as a company. The program will also have employees reflect on their experiences in a workbook, and watch a video that features Common, an Academy Award-winning rapper and artist.

    I wonder if the program will include an appearance b Albi The Racist Dragon?

    It's funny ... (5.00 / 6) (#25)
    by Yman on Tue May 29, 2018 at 04:20:10 PM EST
    ... how it's always the white males who downplay the significance of racism and sexism is our society.

    No (none / 0) (#82)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed May 30, 2018 at 10:15:13 AM EST
    But it may include how to avoid needle sticks when emptying the trash in the rest rooms.

    Squash blossoms (none / 0) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 10:29:06 AM EST
    Curcubit (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by jmacWA on Tue May 29, 2018 at 02:04:14 PM EST
    Definitely a curcubit... If you planted cucumber or pumpkin could be one of those, but zucchini is a good bet.

    Thanks (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 03:44:10 PM EST
    I did

    My grandmother, (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Zorba on Thu May 31, 2018 at 11:20:26 AM EST
    "Yia-Yia" in Greek, would sometimes stuff squash blossoms.
    She made a colorful and beautiful platter of stuffed tomatoes, peppers, zucchini, eggplant, potatoes (yes, potatoes) and squash blossoms, arranged in a pleasing pattern.
    Of course, this was for company, not everyday meals, because it was a pain in the @ss- I know, because I would often help her.

    Trump pardons Jack Johnson (none / 0) (#5)
    by McBain on Tue May 29, 2018 at 11:03:21 AM EST
    Johnson, the first African-American world heavyweight boxing champion, was convicted in 1913 under the Mann Act for taking his white girlfriend across state lines for "immoral" purposes. The Mann Act purported to prevent human trafficking for the purpose of prostitution, but critics have argued it was applied inconsistently to criminalize African Americans and those with dissenting political views.
    Johnson was convicted by an all-white jury in less than two hours and was imprisoned for a year. The sentence and imprisonment destroyed the boxing career of the "Galveston Giant." He died in 1946.

    The initial movement to get Johnson pardoned started in 2004 by a group that included John McCain, Sugar Ray Leonard and filmmaker Ken Burns. Not sure why Bush and Obama didn't do it but I'm glad Trump did.  

    Perhaps, David Frum's comments...

    something missing from Trump where normal human feelings should go.

    aren't quite accurate.  

    Nice try. But no cigar. (5.00 / 8) (#9)
    by Chuck0 on Tue May 29, 2018 at 11:46:37 AM EST
    The quote from Frum is about the oompa loompa's Memorial Day message. Has nothing to do with Jack Johnson. To cadet bone spurs, Memorial Day is about him and what he thinks he's done, not the service of those who sacrificed. Next.

    Trump wished (5.00 / 5) (#29)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 29, 2018 at 04:39:52 PM EST
    a "Happy Memorial Day."   A day honoring the fallen, sort of like have a happy funeral.  

    Trump did a good thing here (none / 0) (#33)
    by McBain on Tue May 29, 2018 at 05:00:47 PM EST
    not acknowledging it weakens your criticism.

    Sort of like how ... (5.00 / 6) (#34)
    by Yman on Tue May 29, 2018 at 05:38:32 PM EST
    ... your failure to acknowledge the hundreds (thousands?) of examples of Trump's sexism, racism, bigotry and otherwise scummy comments and behavior weaken your defense of Trump?  Just ignore those and pretend that a single pardon of a man who's been dead for 70+ years means Trump isn't all bad.

    That's funny.


    Now he's pardoning Dinesh D'Souza (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by jondee on Thu May 31, 2018 at 09:14:37 AM EST
    to make up for pardoning Jack Johnson.

    Both Sides (none / 0) (#109)
    by jmacWA on Thu May 31, 2018 at 09:38:17 AM EST
    Had to happen... right

    Good for Jack Jackson. (none / 0) (#69)
    by Chuck0 on Wed May 30, 2018 at 07:35:13 AM EST
    Feel better now? Bone spurs is still a narcissistic sob.

    I can imagine (none / 0) (#81)
    by jondee on Wed May 30, 2018 at 10:13:19 AM EST
    what the conservative noise machine's response would've been if "the food stamp President" pardoned Johnson..

    Every talk radio jackdaw in the country would've signed up for lets-re-prosecute-Jack-Johnson-week.


    And now, its hurricane season again... (none / 0) (#36)
    by desertswine on Tue May 29, 2018 at 05:44:32 PM EST
    According to a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine Tuesday, researchers have concluded that the death toll in Puerto Rico from Hurricane Maria is more than 70 times the official count of 64 casualties, adding a lowball figure of at least 4,645 unrecorded deaths.

    That story on Puerto Rico's (5.00 / 5) (#37)
    by caseyOR on Tue May 29, 2018 at 05:56:50 PM EST
    actual Hurricane Maria death toll is the saddest, most infuriating, most horrific thing I read or saw or heard today.

    Not that I ever gave a bit of credence to that ridiculous official count of 64, but geez, almost 5, 000 deaths. In the USA. In the 21st century.

    Good god.


    ANNIHILATION and THE SOUTHERN REACH (none / 0) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 07:03:22 PM EST
    I finished the last book a few days ago and now the movie is on PPV.  I just watched it again.

    So good.

    But just want to say if you liked the movie you should go to the books.  The books are the movie on steroids.  There are many significant differences in the story and to mention any would be a spoiler but just one thing to make the point.

    It has this theme of not knowing what is really happening.  In the books this is so much more.  One example is unlike the movie in the books none of the characters have names.  At least at first and some never do.  They are the psychologist the biologist etc.

    I don't think it would be possible to literally make the books a film.  

    They are to (none / 0) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 29, 2018 at 07:08:11 PM EST

    Read the trilogy (none / 0) (#68)
    by jmacWA on Wed May 30, 2018 at 05:56:59 AM EST
    I was not overly impressed... I would have liked a bit more on what really caused the event.  

    Did you see the movie? (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 30, 2018 at 07:39:19 AM EST
    If not it you might like it more.  It definitely tries to make the story more.....more what, accessible?

    I get why.  And I liked the movie a lot but it's almost two different stories

    If you did see it I wondered what the thought about leaving out the "tower" entirely.

    If you did not you can see how much that one thing would change the story


    Build the Wall! (none / 0) (#91)
    by CST on Wed May 30, 2018 at 01:53:23 PM EST
    No not that wall, this one.

    "Building a massive barrier wall in Boston Harbor to protect the city from the increasing risk of flooding isn't worth a price tag that could reach $11 billion, according to a new study for a City Hall-led commission."

    "The concept of a wall, which under one design would stretch 3.8 miles from Winthrop to Hull and be the largest in the world, was considered a year ago to be a bold but possibly necessary solution to combat the effects of climate change."

    IMO, 11 Billion now, or 50 Billion later, we're going to have to deal with this one way or the other.  It's better (and probably cheaper) than canals.  Bandaids in the meantime are just that.  I don't necessarily disagree that maybe now is not the time, as there may not be enough information yet about what the impacts of climate change will look like, but I do think we're headed here eventually.

    I think now is the time (none / 0) (#111)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 31, 2018 at 11:10:19 AM EST
    It is already the hottest May on record. I don't think any of this gets easier. Not in my lifetime

    Hurricane season starts (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by fishcamp on Thu May 31, 2018 at 08:37:06 PM EST
    at midnight tonight.  It's supposed to be 90 degrees here through the weekend.   Gaak

    We have hit the 90s just about (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by caseyOR on Thu May 31, 2018 at 09:07:08 PM EST
    every day for the last two weeks. A month ago we had snow.

    Yes, summers here in my part of the Land O'Lincoln can be hot and steamy, but the 90+ days usually hit us much later in the season. They are certainly not normal for May.

    Although, what is normal anymore.

    fish amp, my friend, I hope hope hope that hurricane season leaves you unscathed.


    Same here (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 31, 2018 at 09:11:05 PM EST
    Coldest April on record and looking like the hottest May.  

    I think relying on the seasonal norms is gone (none / 0) (#147)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 06:08:45 AM EST
    We will have to be ready for a wide array of possible weather.

    I am told that the wind storms we had here twice this spring are not considered  normal for the DC area.


    Supposed to be (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 31, 2018 at 09:10:01 PM EST
    A heat index of 105-110 here Saturday.  I have out of town guest coming Sunday and my grass needs cutting.  Guest may have to just deal with it.

    You could always rent a goat for a day or 2 (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by jmacWA on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 05:49:40 AM EST

    I wonder if there (none / 0) (#149)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 08:21:16 AM EST
    Is an app for that

    Goat (none / 0) (#151)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 09:59:23 AM EST
    Uber or Uber Goat? Should we worry about possible sexual exploitation of farm animals?

    Baaa-baa-Uber (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 10:03:35 AM EST
    It's too bad Eddie Cochran (none / 0) (#154)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 10:10:34 AM EST
    isn't still around to record a new version of Summertime Blues. He'd have a lot of new material to work with.

    It's also become increasingly clear (none / 0) (#164)
    by CST on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 11:56:49 AM EST
    That the federal government/international community action is going to be insufficient.  As a result, it's going to come down to individual states/cities/towns to protect themselves from whatever changes are coming down the road, or die.

    Part of me wonders if the urbanized coasts will even exist in 100 years, as we know them today.


    I am certain that the urbanized (none / 0) (#170)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 02:15:03 PM EST
    coasts 100 years from now will be very different than they are today. If nothing else rising ocean levels and erosion will drastically alter the coastlines.

    Locations that are inland today may be coastal in 100 years. I am not suggesting that Indiana will be a coastal city, but up and down both the Atlantic and the Pacific coasts land will be lost and so towns and cities will be changed and in some cases lost.

    I have seen modeling that shows Portland OR, which is not on the ocean, losing land due to rising ocean levels causing a corresponding rise in the Columbia River. The Columbia River is the border between Oregon and Washington and serves  as the northern city limits of Portland.


    And casey the Columbia River (none / 0) (#175)
    by fishcamp on Sat Jun 02, 2018 at 07:45:06 AM EST
    is one mile wide in Portland and is affected by the tide.  By river the Columbia is 105 miles from it's mouth with the Pacific Ocean, where it is five miles wide.  The Columbia is the second largest river in the U S, behind the Mississippi.

     During high school a group of us built a big raft, loaded it with beer, and were prepared to float the entire river.  We got caught by our mothers as we were launching.  Not sure if we had a plan when we got to Astoria at the mouth of the river, which can be quite dangerous.


    The Columbia is an impressive river. (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jun 02, 2018 at 11:15:38 AM EST
    I have travelled on the Columbia from Portland east to Bonneville Dam, but never west to the Pacific Ocean. The Columbia River Gorge is jaw-droppingly stunning. Many's the time I would make the easy drive from Portland to the Gorge to spend the day meandering on the trails at this or that waterfall.

    I miss the Gorge. Nothing like it here in Illinois. At least not that I have found.

    Interestingly, the Mississippi I not the longest river in US. That honor goes to the Missouri River. The Mighty Mississippi is second. I was surprised to learn the Columbia comes in around tenth longest.


    "Code Red" (none / 0) (#93)
    by KeysDan on Wed May 30, 2018 at 05:11:36 PM EST
    "American democracy is truly threatened today, by the man sitting in the Oval Office and the lawmakers giving him a free pass."

    Tom Friedman (NYTimes, May 30, 2018)
    , the non-Democrat writes that the mid-term elehttps://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=2ahUK Ewi-k-3Xu67bAhVDi1kKHeZpAF0QFjACegQIARBA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2018%2F05%2F29%2Fop inion%2Fmidterms-trump-democrats.html&usg=AOvVaw0ixLRfEh70CskZ4s1d3xggction requires Democrats..vote for a Democrat, send money to a Democrat, canvas for a Democrat, and drive a Democrat to the polls to vote Democratic.  Not a choice, he says, between basket of policies..no the election is about your first chance to vote against Trump since the 2016 election.. its a choice between letting Trump retain control of all levers of political power and face two more years ...Or Not.

    The Republicans have made the craven choice to stand with Trump as long as he delivers policies they like..tax cuts, gun control, fossil fuels, abortion and immigration.

    Tom is on fire.. now.  

    Started watching the new Casey Anthony (none / 0) (#95)
    by McBain on Wed May 30, 2018 at 05:57:11 PM EST
    docu series on the Oxygen network last night.  In the first of three episodes they talked about an important part of the case that was mostly overlooked during the trial... the chloroform theory.  

    During the trial the prosecution told the jury that Anthony killed her daughter Caylee with chloroform and duct tape. They said she learned how to make it by searching the internet but they never really explained how difficult/easy it is to actually make it at home.  

    In the docu series the investigators concluded that making chloroform is no easy task and thought it was very unlikely someone with Anthony's background would be able to do it.

    That entire trial was very strange.  The state of Florida was asking for the death penalty without really knowing what happened.  I don't know what role, if any, Casey played in her daughter's death but I'm glad the jury didn't convict her.

    Right out of a spy movie (none / 0) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 30, 2018 at 07:31:23 PM EST
    `Dead' Russian Journalist Appears at News Conference in Ukraine

    MOSCOW -- The assassination bore all the hallmarks of yet another contract killing carried out in the murky shadows of the conflict pitting Russia against Ukraine.

    A photo of the victim, a dissident Russian journalist, showed him lying face down Tuesday in a vermilion pool of his own blood. He was found by his wife, and died on the way to a hospital from multiple gunshot wounds to the back, said the police in Kiev, Ukraine's capital.

    Then on Wednesday, the journalist, Arkady Babchenko, to all appearances very much alive, walked into a news conference that Ukrainian security officials had called to discuss his "murder."

    "First of all, I would like to apologize that all of you had to live through this, because I know the horrible feeling when you have to bury your colleagues," Mr. Babchenko told stunned reporters after the gasps died down. "Separately, I want to apologize to my wife for all the hell she had to go through."

    Bodycam video released of NJ woman (none / 0) (#108)
    by McBain on Thu May 31, 2018 at 09:25:18 AM EST
    who was punched by cops.
    When the video comes back, the officer is on top of Weinman with his arm on her neck. He then appears to swing his arm and hit her repeatedly - a moment apparently captured in a now widely-shared cellphone video showing an officer punching Weinman in the head. As she's being handcuffed, Weinman appears to spit at one of the officers. Later, the officers can be heard explaining their version of the events.

    "She kicked him. And then I just, I hit her a couple of times," one officer said.

    Another example of how bad things can happen when someone, possibly under the influence, doesn't cooperate with the police.

    Her attorney released a statement saying in part, "These videos coupled with the bystander video show the officers involved overreacted to a situation which had no elements of violence or the need for anyone to be taken into custody."

    I disagree with the last part of that statement.  I saw a need for her to be taken into custody.  Not sure about the overreacted part.

    The police may not lawfully use force (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by Peter G on Thu May 31, 2018 at 01:06:11 PM EST
    for the purpose of retaliating against (i.e., summarily punishing) someone who uses force against a police officer, even unjustifiably (as in - "she kicked my partner, so I punched her a couple of times").

    Peter, do they not (5.00 / 3) (#123)
    by Zorba on Thu May 31, 2018 at 01:46:19 PM EST
    train police how to deal with people who are, perhaps, inebriated, high on drugs, mentally ill or emotionally disturbed, suffering from brain injury, etc?  And if not, why not?

    For pity's sake, when I taught Special Ed, I had students (middle and high school aged, and young adults) who were severely emotionally disturbed, behavior disordered, autistic, you name it.  A number of them would get violent, aggressive, self abusive, from time to time. We were taught ways to deal with them, "talk them down," and even take them down physically if necessary, without hurting them.  And it was usually just me and one or two aides in the room.

    I can't believe that LEO's can't be trained to do the same things.  (And I don't mean if somebody pulls a weapon on them, that's a different thing.)


    Of course police are (nominally) trained (none / 0) (#136)
    by Peter G on Thu May 31, 2018 at 08:49:18 PM EST
    to deal with difficult people. Not all police act in accordance with their "training," though, or at least not all the time.

    but how much force can they use (none / 0) (#122)
    by McBain on Thu May 31, 2018 at 01:45:54 PM EST
    to get an angry, uncooperative, possibly intoxicated person into handcuffs?  I believe that's the important question here.  

    Everything up until the punches could be perfectly justified by the police and she could be guilty of some significant offenses.  However, the punches might have been excessive.  



    Get serious, McBain (5.00 / 6) (#124)
    by jondee on Thu May 31, 2018 at 01:56:37 PM EST
    if three cops can't physically subdue a smallish, unarmed woman without punching her while she's on the ground, they need to go flip burgers somewhere.

    What would they be "justified" in doing with a large, fit man in the same situation? Two rounds to the back of the head?


    ianal, obviously, but from what I read, in NJ, you cannot legally refuse to identify yourself to LEO if they have reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime. Underage public possession of alcohol is illegal in NJ.

    However, she may have a case that the officer used unlawful force:

    New Jersey Code 2009 New Jersey Code TITLE 2C - THE NEW JERSEY CODE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE 2c:3 2C:3-7 - Use of force in law enforcement

    2009 New Jersey Code

    2C:3-7 - Use of force in law enforcement
    2C:3-7.  Use of force in law enforcement
          a.  Use of force justifiable to effect an arrest.    Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 2C:3-9, the use of force upon or toward the person of another is justifiable when the actor is making or assisting in making an arrest and the actor reasonably believes that such force  is immediately necessary to effect a lawful arrest.

          b.  Limitations on the use of force.

              (1) The use of force is not justifiable under this section unless:

              (a) The actor makes known the purpose of the arrest or reasonably believes  that it is otherwise known by or cannot reasonably be made known to the person  to be arrested;  and

               (b) When the arrest is made under a warrant, the warrant is valid or reasonably believed by the actor to be valid.

    I think it was pretty clear in the video that the cop did not let the girl know why he was arresting her, and that he could not reasonably believe that the purpose of the arrest was otherwise known to her, since she clearly said in the video that she did not believe she had to give the cop her name, and that she believed the cop was "was mad" at her (retaliating against her) because he "thought they were drinking but weren't."


    Not sure that's such a good thing for his client. ;-)

    "He hadn't told her that she had committed any crime. He hadn't told her 'I'm going to issue you a summons.' He hadn't told her any of those things. And then he says, 'Oh, you're about to get dropped,'" said Weinman's attorney, Stephen Dicht.

    Another example of how bad things (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by jondee on Thu May 31, 2018 at 01:34:09 PM EST
    can happen when stunted individuals with too much bottled-up rage become cops.

    Yes. Completely justified. (none / 0) (#116)
    by Chuck0 on Thu May 31, 2018 at 12:10:21 PM EST
    Her transgressions of the law were so severe that it was imperative that she be be subdued to protect the public. /s

    Seriously. Possible underage drinking? That "needs" to be stopped by violence and custody? I read an article that she passed a breathalyzer. But still, she had to be subdued. To protect New Jersey.


    I have no problem with her being subdued (1.50 / 2) (#117)
    by McBain on Thu May 31, 2018 at 12:18:05 PM EST
    she brought that on herself.  What I'm not sure about is how they did it.  Not sure if the punches were warranted.

    I guess you've never heard of (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Chuck0 on Thu May 31, 2018 at 01:09:56 PM EST
    "punishment fitting the crime."

    I guess you're good with a jaywalker being tazed or beaten as well. You seen to have no perspective on law enforcement using any judgement on what's warranted in relation to a given offense. No she did not need to be subdued in relation to her perceived offense.


    The initial reason for being questioned (none / 0) (#121)
    by McBain on Thu May 31, 2018 at 01:38:24 PM EST
    by police isn't always the "crime" or action that warrants a physical use of force.  Sometimes it's when someone resists being put in handcuffs that's the justification.  In this incident, the officers claim the woman assaulted one of them.  Hard to tell from the bodycam footage what she actually did just before being punched.  

    See what Peter G said. (none / 0) (#126)
    by Chuck0 on Thu May 31, 2018 at 02:15:59 PM EST
    According to this article... (none / 0) (#129)
    by McBain on Thu May 31, 2018 at 03:06:09 PM EST
    two of the cops are new to the force and the woman has a criminal record...

    Mayor Troiano noted that Wildwood's special officers go through extensive training, adding that two of the officers at the scene are new to the force while the third has been with the department since last year. He did not say if the officer who delivered the blows was one of the new officers...

    ...According to court records, Weinman was arrested in 2016 on charges of burglary, simple assault, criminal mischief, criminal trespass and recklessly endangering. She eventually pleaded guilty to misdemeanor counts of simple assault and reckless endangerment and received probation.

    McBain, so what? (5.00 / 5) (#138)
    by Jeralyn on Thu May 31, 2018 at 08:53:30 PM EST
    Being new to the force is no excuse. You are supposed to get appropriate training before being put on the street. And having a prior record? Absolutely irrelevant.

    (And I don't even know what case you are talking about. That comment is troll-like, request to others, don't take the bait.)


    I disagree but I respect your opinion (none / 0) (#144)
    by McBain on Thu May 31, 2018 at 10:04:41 PM EST
    These are the cases I like to talk about, much more so than Trump related stories but I understand I'm in the minority.  

    I do agree that being new to the police force is not an excuse but I disagree that it's absolutely irrelevant to the discussion. I see your point more so on the assault charge.  


    "TalkLeft the politics of crime" (none / 0) (#158)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 10:54:30 AM EST
    'Twas a time, back in the misty origins of the interwebs, when TL was a blog about crime, and the politics thereof...

    And you were.... (none / 0) (#160)
    by jmacWA on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 10:57:02 AM EST
    Anonymous.  :)

    We all were! Miss those days. (none / 0) (#162)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 11:05:22 AM EST
    Trump changed that (none / 0) (#167)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 01:00:29 PM EST
    and a lot of other things, especially cable news.  The way things used to be, the Cosby trial would have been a much bigger deal.  Same with Weinstein.

    CNN used to cover the stories I was interested in but now they're full Trump.  Fox started changing even earlier during the Obama years.

    I think the Trump obsession is unhealthy but my high profile legal case obsession probably isn't any better.  



    first found it, like 15-16 years ago...

    16 years ago on June 15 (none / 0) (#199)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 06, 2018 at 04:33:16 PM EST
    I converted TalkLeft to a blog on June 15, 2002. (From 2000 to 2002 it just provided news headlines and links to the articles.) How many people pursue an unpaid hobby daily (with a few days off to re-group)for 16 years? Trump is ruining my interest in the news, but it's not dead yet.

    Props to you J, on your (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jun 07, 2018 at 11:01:13 AM EST
    persistence to see it through 16 years. I know I couldn't have done it!

    it still is (none / 0) (#198)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 06, 2018 at 04:30:08 PM EST
    corruption cases are just more prominent right now.

    She was taunting the police and (none / 0) (#137)
    by fishcamp on Thu May 31, 2018 at 08:51:03 PM EST
    turned her back on them while walking away which is a no no, but there were three cops there for crying out loud.  They claim she spit on them, but that doesn't deserve being punched at least twice while she was down.  The police are here to serve and protect, and I guess that means them, not us.

    I've said for a long time (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 09:12:48 AM EST
    don't give them a reason, because some of them are just looking for an excuse.



    Truth (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 10:56:24 AM EST
    When interacting with the police, in the words of Howard Stern's father: "Don't be stupid, you moron."

    Ya agreed. (none / 0) (#168)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jun 01, 2018 at 01:18:34 PM EST
    Here are a some things I noticed...

    The cop specifically asks her to do the breathalyzer test, he did not order her to do it, which leads leads me to believe she was not legally required to do it. Makes sense, as she was not driving. And at that point anyway, she certainly wasn't making a public disturbance or endangering anyone.

    Also, I don't know the legal definition in this case of the word "possession."

    New Jersey State Law (§ 2C:33-15) it is illegal for a person under the age of 21 to purchase, consume or possess an alcoholic beverage in a motor vehicle, school, place of public assembly, public place or public conveyance.

    She said the alcoholic drinks were not hers, that they were her of-age aunt's. OK, let's say the aunt bought the alc. But the aunt is not present. Did she give the alc to her niece? Did she have her niece bring the alc to the beach for her? Did the aunt bring the alc to the beach herself, but then leave it with the girl? At what point does a person who is clearly, and admittedly, with alcohol, become a person with alcohol in their possession?

    Anyway, from what I can find in NJ law, if a cop is going to cite you or arrest you for breaking the law, they can legally require you to identify yourself. If they are not going to cite/arrest you, you have no obligation to identify yourself to them.

    Also, where is the body cam footage from the second cop?

    And, apparently the first cop shut his body cam off a couple times during the encounter, I believe in NJ the cops are supposed to leave the cam on for the entire encounter.


    Cape May Prosecutor: No charges (none / 0) (#194)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jun 05, 2018 at 01:45:08 PM EST
    I wonder if she will be convicted of anything (none / 0) (#195)
    by McBain on Tue Jun 05, 2018 at 04:08:08 PM EST
    or if she'll file a civil suit?

    If the charges are not dropped, (none / 0) (#196)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jun 05, 2018 at 07:37:24 PM EST
    I do not see how she would not be convicted. I would expect her to file a civil suit.

    Anyone watching PATRICK MELROSE? (none / 0) (#185)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 03, 2018 at 05:42:20 PM EST
    It's not at all what I expected but it's great.  The promos made it look like a comedy.  

    Also tonight a new series on HBO after WESTWORLD,SUCCESSION

    it looks good

    And tomorrow on AMC DIETLAND which looks very good.

    Waiting on Preacher. (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Jun 03, 2018 at 08:46:13 PM EST
    Because I don't watch enough TV.

    Howdy (none / 0) (#187)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Jun 03, 2018 at 10:37:09 PM EST
    Have you seen The Honourable Woman on Netflix? Stars Maggie Gyllenhaal. British / Israeli / Palestinian intrigue. I'm on ep. 6. It's been good.

    On the list (none / 0) (#191)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 04, 2018 at 06:45:32 AM EST

    SUCCESSION (none / 0) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 04, 2018 at 06:46:07 AM EST
    Is excellent