Tuesday Open Thread

Sorry for the lack of posting, but I'm in the middle of a two day sentencing hearing (which I worked on all weekend.) I won't be done until 5 pm tomorrow. Assuming I'm not totally exhausted, I will check the news then.

In the meantime, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Friday Open Thread | Saturday Open Thread >
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    OK. I'm dropping "dotard." (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 07:57:52 AM EST
    In honor of a real American hero, Tammy Duckworth, it's full on "Cadet Bone Spurs" going forward.

    It's chilling how casually and easily (5.00 / 6) (#2)
    by Anne on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 08:23:24 AM EST
    Trump tosses off an accusation of treason for Dems not clapping or giving him a standing ovation at the SOTU.

    This from the man who delivered most of his speech with his back to Dems.  

    I don't have words to describe the depth of my loathing for him and all that he stands for.


    The only thing (5.00 / 8) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 08:27:30 AM EST
    I want to call him is former president

    I (5.00 / 6) (#4)
    by FlJoe on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 08:33:49 AM EST
    would prefer convicted felon.

    That works too (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 08:35:48 AM EST
    North Korea just called him an old lunatic (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 08:43:57 AM EST
    And he's got a nasty dirty body odor woven with fraud and sexual abuse...or something like that.

    What are we gonna do? When has North Korea ever had anything this ridiculous to say about our President and our only honest response could be, "So?!"


    Ok (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 08:54:38 AM EST
    Get this...new chemical attack in Syria (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 09:03:32 AM EST
    Trump has troops on the ground that he plans on leaving there.

    President says nothing.

    And nobody can even pay attention to any of that.

    To repeat...US troops on the ground in Syria and new chemical weapon use just occurred there.


    We are seriously running out of time to (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Anne on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 09:30:07 AM EST
    remove this cancer on the republic.  It's all well and good to resist and vote and change the composition of the Congress, but what worries me is the momentum of Trump's policies and actions gaining speed such that they will not only be difficult to stop, but will have consequences we haven't even seen yet.

    Nothing this man touches with his tiny little hands is ever better for it, nothing.

    Maybe it will come down to Putin making him an offer he can't refuse, and Trump and his odious family can defect to Russia, where, after Trump's usefulness runs out, the lot of them - and whoever of his minions make the trip with them - can be shipped off to the gulag and live out their days in the misery they deserve, and where there is no fast food, Diet Coke, hair products, Botox or tanning beds.


    I'm not sure Vlad (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 11:04:45 AM EST
    Is all that happy with the House of Trump.

    There are going to be some really (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 11:41:03 AM EST
    Terrible things happen in the next 3 yrs. And the troops in Syria are very very vulnerable while this President is spineless with Russia. I do expect troops in Syria to get hit before it's all finished.

    And Trump will push whatever Russian narrative fits to explain why what happens to them happens. They know what they signed up for.


    You are correct (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 11:48:23 AM EST
    It's easy for us to laugh at this.  The troops very different.
    Let no comment suggest I don't understand that.

    I honestly can not imagine.

    All I can say is we are closer to the end than the beginning.

    That's all i got


    Yes, but I don't think Trump's going to (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Anne on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 12:11:09 PM EST
    meet the end of his presidency before a lot of other people have come to a much worse end.

    I am increasingly feeling like our troops, wherever they are, are working without much of a net.  I think our diplomatic corps is more of a corpse, world leaders are more and more irritated and offended and disgusted by us - to the point where I feel like "serves you right" may be the more likely world response to tragedy than "how can we help?"

    I just don't know how much longer this can go on.


    Bad things are happening (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Coral on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 12:34:03 PM EST
    I've seen a number of stories about ICE agents asking for proof of citizenship on public transportation. That's shocking to me.

    The level of deportations and the treatment of migrants in detention centers is shocking.

    The contempt for rule of law in PA legislature regarding the gerrymander ruling is shocking.

    Even if Trump is eventually impeached/indicted there are excesses and breaking of norms that cannot easily be undone.


    ICE will open fire (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 01:13:18 PM EST
    On brown US citizens before this is over :(

    Not shocking to me (4.00 / 1) (#58)
    by linea on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 08:11:32 PM EST
    Border Sweeps in North Reach Miles Into U.S.
    Border Patrol agents in the north routinely board Greyhound buses and Amtrak trains to check the immigration status of riders.
    Published: August 29, 2010

    Immigration agents have been doing immigration checks on public transportation for a long time. This practice continued unabated during the Obama administration. While most immigration stops occur in the Southwest within 50 miles of the Mexican border, immigration checks can extend 100 miles in to the US along any coast or border based on a 1953 rule. Scotus has affirmed this - a decision of which I disagree.

    In my opinion, these stops are un-American and intrinsically a violation of civil rights. Because there is no legal requirement for US citizens to carry identification and citizenship papers, immigration agents are left with `you look funny' or `you talk funny' as the only basis to ask additional questions or detain someone. Also, at the moment they decide to ask additional questions you are no longer free to leave and are effectively under arrest.

    Personally, I find these stops inside the US border so odious that I would accept the Trump Wall in exchange for a complete elimination of these checks and the restriction of immigration enforcement to border crossings, points of entry, and within one mile of an international border. However, there doesn't seem to be any political will to eliminate these stops by either the Dems or Republicans.


    Yeah, I'm waiting for the day that happens. (none / 0) (#31)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 01:26:19 PM EST
    How quick can an ICE agent go pound sand? Granted, I don't exactly take much public transportation, but I am taking an AMTRAK vacation trip to Portland, ME in May. We will have to see what happens. Have to change trains in Philly and Boston on the trip. I have heard of cases of TSA people stopping people in train stations in the past (not recently).

    I remember taking Greyhound from Phoenix to Dallas to pick up a truck and I believe it was around Weatherford, TX, at the bus terminal, local cops came on board and asked everyone to step off the bus. They then proceeded to rifle through the carry on bags of anyone who left their bag on the bus. Without permission. Without search warrants. This came to light in the press at some point and was put a stop to for being so obviously unconstitutional.

    I take my belongings with me, always, in such circumstances. But I do believe one of them asked to look in my bag as I walked off the bus (a small soft sided brief case). I simply walked past him without reply and they didn't push it. They knew what they were doing was illegal so they let it go. But a large number of Greyhound travelers (at least in the southwest and Texas are Hispanic and/or don't speak English and were not about to challenge cops. That's how they got away with it for so long.


    I agree Anne that the military (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 01:24:43 PM EST
    Is high wiring without a net, and moorings we have all become accustom to are gone now also. Someone(s) within the military is/are going to do some really stupid things. Just a matter of time as the power hungry realize they aren't accountable any longer.

    Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, (none / 0) (#41)
    by KeysDan on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 02:48:31 PM EST
    former chief of staff to Sec. Powell, gives his remorse about selling the Iraq war and warns about a repeat performance in the making for Iran.

    In his NYTimes op ed (Feb 6) he describes how he helped Collin Powell prepare for his infamous UN presentation so as to get the American people on the Bush war wagon...a war of choice that resulted in catastrophic losses for the region, US, allies, and destabilized the Middle East.  He sees it again...for a war with Iran.  


    History is replete with examples ... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 04:22:32 PM EST
    ... of empires which ultimate had their teeth broken in some misbegotten overseas adventure. The tide of the Peloponnesian War (431-404 BC) turned against the great Athenian Empire not due to any direct action against rival Sparta in Greece, but instead to a remarkably ill-advised two-year military campaign against the remote Greek city-state of Syracuse on the island of Sicily (415-413 BC).

    What was originally meant to be a short punitive raid conducted by 20 ships in retaliation for nominally neutral Syracuse's tacit support of Sparta, for some reason eventually escalated into a full-blown attempt at conquest by a fleet of over 200 vessels and some 25,000 soldiers, which then constituted nearly two-thirds of Athens' available armed forces.

    Despite some early Athenian successes, which placed Syracuse under siege, the sheer logistics of sustaining such an overly ambitious enterprise proved too much to overcome for even the powerful Athenian navy. The resultant breakdown in supply and reinforcement ultimately doomed the campaign to failure. Stranded in western Sicily, the entire Athenian expeditionary force was eventually beaten and destroyed, and its remaining survivors were compelled to surrender.

    The Sicilian Expedition was a devastating defeat for Athens, which was further compounded because it prompted Persia to intervene on the side of Sparta against her old enemy. While the Athenians held out for another nine years before finally surrendering, their city-state's fate had been sealed on the faraway battlefields of Sicily.



    I just read on Twitter that Shanahan at the (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 02:55:35 PM EST
    Pentagon has now told journalists that they are seeking a way to make troop deployment decisions within 8 hrs instead of weeks or months. Not even pretending they need or want any kind of Congressional approval for troop deployment.

    Well, good luck with that, ... (none / 0) (#27)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 01:01:43 PM EST
    ... as long as our U.S. mainstream media employs the congenial but terminally clueless likes of college dropout Chuck Todd, who vigorously upholds the dubious journalistic standards of his late mentor Tim Russert, from whom he inherited his current post as senior pastor at Our Lady of False Equivalence.

    Let's be clear: Trump is calling for execution (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Towanda on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 11:53:43 AM EST
    of Democrats in Congress.

    Treason is punishable by death.

    Of course, today his staff says that he was just joking.

    Joking, just like the "locker room talk" that did not stop him from being elected. Nor did "lock her up" calls for imprisonment of his opponent.

    Now, claims of treason and thus calls for public execution of opponents are normed, again, in this nu US in which we now live. What's next, and how swiftly will it be minimized -- and so, allowed?


    BABYLON BERLIN (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 09:08:46 AM EST
    thanks for the heads up.  I love this.

    Just wanted to point something out so it doesn't slip by unnoticed.

    I love the "club scene".  It totally looked like a place I would go.  But just wanted to point out that the "banana Dance" was an homage to the fabulous Josephine Baker


    It's 16 episodes. (none / 0) (#14)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 11:14:36 AM EST
    I'm up to episode 14. It gets better as you watch through them all. Lots of intrigue.

    Started the first one (none / 0) (#23)
    by Coral on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 12:35:09 PM EST
    wasn't completely sold, but will keep watching since you say it gets better after beginning.

    Seriously (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 12:32:14 PM EST
    Why has there never been a Josephine Baker bio pic?

    I see Zoe Saldana or Lupita Nyong'o or maybe Viola Davis.


    Alicia Keyes? (none / 0) (#24)
    by Anne on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 12:35:30 PM EST
    Just a thought

    Rihanna works. (none / 0) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 12:40:54 PM EST
    Totally.   Brianna works

    This is a few years old but

    I think we will see it

    Wilder than her pet cheetah, the sex-mad Black Venus who outwitted the Nazis: Remarkable story of Josephine Baker as Rihanna is set to play legendary seductress in biopic

    If you doubt she could do it (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 07:38:41 PM EST
    HBO (none / 0) (#35)
    by RCBadger on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 02:03:35 PM EST
    There was an HBO biopic that aired in 1991 starring Lynn Whitfield.  

    There was a HBO biopic... (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 02:06:09 PM EST
    years ago with Lynn Whitfield starring as the legendary Ms. Baker...The Josephine Baker Story.

    But I haven't seen it since it debuted so I can't say I really remember the film, nor was I old enough then to appreciate it as anything other than a vehicle to crush on Lynn Whitfield.


    We need a do over (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 07:19:24 PM EST
    I thought there was a couple of years ago (none / 0) (#139)
    by ruffian on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 07:39:13 PM EST
    OK, it was 1991 -  NBC - The Josephine Baker story - Lynn Whitfield

    1991 (none / 0) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:08:03 PM EST
    17 years ago, roughly.  I have never seen it.  And the trailer doesn't make me want to.

    I'm pretty sure that is not the Josephine Baker story I would like to see.

    After that exchange I went looking for more info on the Rihanna/Josephine thing.  I did not find much newer info on the bio pic but if you Google it's clear Rihanna is sort of obsessed with Baker.  Including this knock out crystal dress said to be an homage to Baker.


    I think that dress answers my question (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:20:01 PM EST
    whether Rihanna would be willing to include Baker's notorious banana dance in a biopic she might star in.

    Though you didn't (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:21:52 PM EST
    Like the tv stuff




    Cultural history, I'm into. (none / 0) (#152)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:30:44 PM EST
    And, of course, like Jeralyn, the pop and rock music of our youth. But not contemporary TV dramas, for whatever reason.

    If this is made (none / 0) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:35:44 PM EST
    I would bet it's cable.  If it's worth watching it would have to be R if not NC17.

    Movies don't do that any more.


    Speaking of which, here is Baker (none / 0) (#157)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:40:28 PM EST
    singing Dylan, in 1973. Amazing and bizarre.

    That's some pretty breathy Dylan (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:50:46 PM EST
    The most interesting part of her story, for me, is after the 20s heyday.  The work for the resistance against the Nazis.  Of which it was said she could get through blockades because because she'd had sex with most of the men before the war.

    Then she loses her money.  Then she has a comeback which probably produced that great Dylan song.

    Always on the right side.


    Are there dubbed (none / 0) (#39)
    by KeysDan on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 02:37:24 PM EST
    versions or just the sub-titles?

    There is both (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 05:52:07 PM EST
    The dubbing (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 03:18:54 PM EST
    Is a bit clunky.  As usual.  But I prefer it to reading subtitles with so much to see.

    I have been doing the (none / 0) (#124)
    by KeysDan on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 04:44:16 PM EST
    the subtitles and like the German language ambiance.  But, the subtitles move a bit fast for spouse, so will try the dubbing.  thanks, again.

    I never (none / 0) (#66)
    by linea on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 10:06:54 PM EST
    I never liked people using a nickname-slur coined by a totalitarian communist dictator who brutalizes his population. I suppose `cadet bone spurs' is fine as a perjorative but, as I've mentioned before, it doesn't resonate with me and I doubt it will resonate with anyone my age.

    No one's forcing you to use any nickname, (5.00 / 5) (#79)
    by Anne on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 10:22:54 AM EST
    so I don't see what the problem is.

    And I say this as someone who typically doesn't adopt the various nicknames.

    But I can sure understand why Tammy Duckworth, who lost her legs fighting for her country, and who can only ever dream of getting bone spurs, would choose to tag Trump with a nickname that exemplifies the hypocrisy of a draft-avoider who now fairly drools at the prospect of sending other people's loved ones to armed  - and possibly nuclear - conflict.

    Since Trump doesn't apparently have the cojones or basic human decency to acknowledge it, I'm not going to take issue with a genuine hero making sure he can't run from it.

    One thing's for sure, Duckworth doesn't need your approval.


    Cadet Bone Spurs (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 02:53:16 PM EST
    Colbert was in rare form last night. (none / 0) (#120)
    by desertswine on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 04:22:47 PM EST
    I need to explain how a forum works? (none / 0) (#137)
    by linea on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 07:09:16 PM EST
    No one's forcing you to use any nickname,
    by Anne
    so I don't see what the problem is.
    One thing's for sure, Duckworth doesn't need your approval.

    This is an open thread.

    [1] Chuck0 commented on Trump nicknames.
    [2] I replied with a comment on Trump nicknames.
    [3] I never said Tammy Duckworth needs my approval. It's ridiculous that you would even post that.


    linea, all you ever do is "explain;" (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by Anne on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:10:14 PM EST
    if it's not serving as a self-appointed dictionary, or lecturing us about everything from what Democrats should be doing to explaining the meaning of things we already know, it's shouting at us in bold-faced type because we aren't giving you the props you think you deserve.

    It may actually be you who needs an explanation of how these forums work.  You post a comment, others respond - sometimes they agree, sometimes they don't.

    All this explaining, and yet, you don't seem to understand what others are writing.  I, for example, never said that you said Duckworth needed your approval.  You said the nickname thing didn't resonate with you or people your age - what I more or less said was that it doesn't matter.  Because the reality is that it doesn't have to resonate with you, you don't have to like it.

    But you apparently have no interest in understanding why it might resonate with someone else, why it has meaning for someone else.

    In short, I guess what it comes down to is that I don't really care what you think - mostly because I am weary of your drama.  I should probably just scroll on by your comments, because responding is an exercise in futility.


    I am happy to explain my use of a derogatory (none / 0) (#160)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 09:02:23 PM EST
    nickname for the pretender at 1600 Pennsylvania.

    I absolutely refuse, in writing or conversation to join together the words "president" and "trump" ever. I have nothing but contempt and disgust for that worthless SOB. To reference him with those words would be the slightest hint of respect that he does not deserve and will never, ever receive from me. Under any circumstances. If my wildest dreams were to ever come true, it would be to spit in his face or even better pi$$ on his grave.


    I don't know how old you are. (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 11:33:17 AM EST
    But I'm coming up on 59 years on this planet. And I could care less what resonates with anyone your age or mine.

    Being the voice of a generation (1.00 / 1) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 10:36:45 PM EST
    You obviously are

    So you're claiming Tammy Duckworth (2.00 / 1) (#70)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 12:42:54 AM EST
    was quoting Kim Jong-un?

    Personally, I don't like passive-aggresive types who rewrite history the way totalitarian dictators do.


    Really? (none / 0) (#138)
    by linea on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 07:24:20 PM EST
    Really Jondee?

    I need to explain this to you?

    Chuck0 wrote [1] he isn't going to use dotard anymore [2) he's going to use cadet bone spurs instead.

    I replied [1] I was never fond of people using a nickname coined by a totalitarian communist dictator [2] the new nickname is fine but it's not particularly meaningful to me.

    If you read Chuck0's post, you will notice there are two parts: not using dotard and using cadet bone spurs instead. My response addressed both parts: the word dotard and the new nickname cadet bone spurs. Neither Chuck0 nor myself attributed the nickname dotard to Tammy Duckworth. That's something you alone fabricated in your frenzied zeal to attack me with some arbitrary ridiculous distortion. My post was not `passive aggressive' and I didn't `rewrite history like a totalitarian dictator.' That would be evident if you were not rushing past the clear meaning of my post to spew crazy nonsense in an attempt to irritate and insult me.


    Aside from the triple-snide intro (none / 0) (#141)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 07:50:03 PM EST
    and unnecessary use of bold-face, linea is correct about this one, if you don't mind my saying so.

    And (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 07:55:25 PM EST
    Minding deter your tireless enabling ?

    I am against making this personal, (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:08:10 PM EST
    or almost anything else here, frankly. I'd rather encourage the good points and ignore most of the rest. But that's just me. Same way I cherish your political insights, ignore your TV reviews (cuz I'm not a TV fan), and actively dislike your mocking attacks on some of linea's comments, even if your responses conform more or less to what I'm thinking privately.

    IMO (none / 0) (#147)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:14:44 PM EST
    That does not make you morally superior.  It makes you a troll enabler.   I like you and like most here I think you contribute a lot here.

    I also suspect most here are puzzled by the latter.


    I was explaining my preferences and (none / 0) (#151)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:27:56 PM EST
    manner of responding, Howdy, or trying to. Not claiming to morally superior to you or to anyone else here.

    I have no wish (none / 0) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:33:11 PM EST
    To argue with you.  Lot of people do lots of things I do not understand.

    I just hope the 1s and 2s make you feel better because they will have very little other effect.


    When I express my disapproval (rarely) (3.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:38:19 PM EST
    I do not expect you to change your behavior unless you are moved to change it. If I wanted to persuade, I would write something.

    When I express my disapproval (rarely) (none / 0) (#155)
    by Peter G on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:38:02 PM EST
    I do not expect you to change your behavior unless you are moved to change it. If I wanted to persuade, I would write something.

    And if you had not noticed (none / 0) (#148)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:18:03 PM EST
    I am only possibly more honest and direct but I am far from alone.

    The word "dotard" has been around (none / 0) (#158)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:49:39 PM EST
    a long, long time, therefore it seemed odd to me for someone to think it could be somehow "coined" for all time by Kim Jong-un for his exclusive use as a nickname. I assumed you were referring to Tammy Duckworth's "Cadet Bonespurs",  which actually sounds like a traditional nickname and not simply a descriptor.

    Excellent interview with Nassar's lawyer (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by McBain on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 02:58:46 PM EST
    Criminal defense attorney Shannon Smith talks about why she defended Nassar, the death threats and why Nassar might not have received a fair trial.

    "Everyone is entitled to defense under the constitution, the more people criticize me the more it makes me realize that I understand what's important; they may not realize it. And the more it highlights how important this job is. I have no problem representing someone like Larry Nassar. I feel like I get energized from the fact that other people don't understand and don't appreciate what our constitution is about," she said.

    General Kelly, chief of staff (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by KeysDan on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 03:17:24 PM EST
    for Trump, says some Dreamers were "too lazy to get off their asses" to register for DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals).  

    Of course, there just might be other reasons, such as trust in Republican government, having to give up real addresses etc after being in hiding, and the registration fee of $495, which may well be a lot of money for many.

    I am still waiting for General Kelly to get off his ass and apologize for his false attack against Congresswoman Frederika Wilson and the grief caused to the military widow, Myeshia Johnson.

    Grand Military Parade? (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by Anne on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 05:08:54 PM EST
    I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

    President Trump's vision of soldiers marching and tanks rolling down the boulevards of Washington is moving closer to reality in the Pentagon and White House, where officials say they have begun to plan a grand military parade later this year showcasing the might of America's armed forces.


    Surrounded by the military's highest ranking officials, including Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Joe Dunford, Trump's seemingly abstract desire for a parade was suddenly heard as a presidential directive, the officials said.

    "The marching orders were: I want a parade like the one in France," said a military official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the planning discussions are supposed to remain confidential. "This is being worked at the highest levels of the military."

    I have to go have a drink.

    Do you think he will include nuclear missiles (none / 0) (#60)
    by Redbrow on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 08:14:19 PM EST
    Like JFK did in his military parade?

    He won't be able to resist... (none / 0) (#103)
    by Jack E Lope on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 01:39:31 PM EST
    ...if someone tells him they're live nukes.

    During my Army service (none / 0) (#162)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 02:29:07 AM EST
    I had to participate in a bunch of parades. It is a monstrous pain is the butt, you have to get the uniform perfect and give up what would otherwise be time off, to stand at attention for an hour and not look at anything, while some officer gives a speech.

    Then you march, always to the Colonel Bogey March, past the reviewing stand, where some retiring officer is being honored.  

    "Eyes...RIGHT!" Now you have to look at the fool.

    Every one of those people marching hates the person they are having to look at and the one who is making them do it.

    The guys who had it easy were the post marching band.  They only had to know one march, the above mentioned Colonel Bogey. The monthly parade for retiring officers was always the last weekend of the month.  When their services weren't needed, i.e. all but one day a month, the musicians were jamming in the barracks. They all played in bar bands off post.

    Once a month they had to play their song.


    Ok (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 06:08:57 PM EST
    Could we please stop saying 73% OF REPUBLICANS THINK THE FBI IS OUT TO GET TRUMP.

    Like it actually means anything.  24% of the country is republican

    I don't feel like doing the math but 73% of 24% is probably less than think the earth is flat

    Cadet Bone Spurs... (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 12:04:33 PM EST
    has no hair.  Trigger warning: Do not watch before, during or after eating.

    Normally, I would say there is no shame in (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by vml68 on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 01:06:04 PM EST
    thinning hair or a balding pate.
    But, since the pumpkin p00pstain's stock in trade is mocking other people's appearances, I say we should put that image up on billboards everywhere, constantly show it on tv and laugh about it every chance we get.

    The vainglorious ba$t@rd deserves it.


    The 239 pound (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by KeysDan on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 02:06:07 PM EST
    elephant in the room....Not a good advertisement for the Propecia Dr. Ronny Jackson says Trump takes.   Or, the strength of the glue used.

    No balding pattern ever known (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by Towanda on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 02:08:57 PM EST
    by natural processes is posited,  by some in the know about hair growth, as the result of a vanity procedure, long warned against by reputable medicos, called scalp reduction -- plus hair transplants, twking roots from the back (and leaving it looking like a baby's butt) for transplanting to the balding front.

    (But we already knew that Trump patronizes quack doctors.)

    This explains the awful footlong hair from the front and also too-long hair from the sides all swept back over the collar and lacquered in place with aerosol hairspray, which he has praised -- because what does he care about ozone levels causing cancer to others, as in Australia, which suffers for our anti-environmental excess.

    But, to prevent this, why doesn't he wear a hat when on the tarmac? He likes hats. Red ones. And he can get them for free from his store . . . and spare the rest of us from seeing this result of his vanity.


    I have always said (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 02:29:13 PM EST
    If he shaved his head his approval would go up 5-10 points.

    Just not making people look at that ridiculous embarrassing doo every day.


    Yes re the hat. I see that in his (none / 0) (#205)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 08:26:37 PM EST

    So, what is that? (none / 0) (#92)
    by desertswine on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 12:38:02 PM EST
    Some sort of weave?

    My guess is... (none / 0) (#93)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 12:46:06 PM EST
    one very,very long hair.

    Ha... one hair. (none / 0) (#94)
    by desertswine on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 12:53:58 PM EST
    It looks like a rear view (none / 0) (#98)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 01:13:52 PM EST
    of the crypt ceeper.

    Jesus (none / 0) (#109)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 02:22:08 PM EST
    Can not unseen indeed.

    It reminds me of the occasional makeup booboo in THE STRAIN

    how much would a picture be worth of him exiting the shower, assuming he showers and it not some kind of formaldehyde dry cleaning process, with the hair undone no applied skin color so he is all the dead white around the eyes etc.  

    It almost makes you have renewed respect for Melania


    Ha (none / 0) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 02:33:47 PM EST
    I didn't read.

    "Imagine what those locks look like soaking wet," the journalist mused, articulating something no one wants to think about

    Oh man (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 02:39:47 PM EST
    Google Trump hair.

    The "head" lines are great.







    Here (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 02:43:35 PM EST
    Can understand (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by KeysDan on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 02:54:21 PM EST
    why Trump needs all morning for "Executive Time," aka coiffure arranging.  And, his "no entry" to his WH bedroom by housekeeping staff...and, maybe, pee hookers.

    Rather than pie in the face (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 03:16:20 PM EST
    The goal should be bucket of water on the head.  In front of many cameras.  Like Carrie except water instead oh pig blood.

    Although that would also be cool.


    Sorry, one more (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 03:40:49 PM EST
    You would think (none / 0) (#125)
    by KeysDan on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 04:48:16 PM EST
    Trump would be able to get really good toupee.  If he can't afford one, maybe a Russian bank can finance him.

    From the article you linked to... (none / 0) (#161)
    by vml68 on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 09:15:39 PM EST
    MAGA - Must Apply Glue Again!

    Boycott the Republican Party (5.00 / 3) (#122)
    by Anne on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 04:39:08 PM EST
    Read the whole thing - here's just a tiny bit:

    The Republican Party, as an institution, has become a danger to the rule of law and the integrity of our democracy. The problem is not just Donald Trump; it's the larger political apparatus that made a conscious decision to enable him. In a two-party system, nonpartisanship works only if both parties are consistent democratic actors. If one of them is not predictably so, the space for nonpartisans evaporates. We're thus driven to believe that the best hope of defending the country from Trump's Republican enablers, and of saving the Republican Party from itself, is to do as Toren Beasley did: vote mindlessly and mechanically against Republicans at every opportunity, until the party either rights itself or implodes (very preferably the former).


    We're suggesting that in today's situation, people should vote a straight Democratic ticket even if they are not partisan, and despite their policy views. They should vote against Republicans in a spirit that is, if you will, prepartisan and prepolitical. Their attitude should be: The rule of law is a threshold value in American politics, and a party that endangers this value disqualifies itself, period. In other words, under certain peculiar and deeply regrettable circumstances, sophisticated, independent-minded voters need to act as if they were dumb-ass partisans.

    THANKS (none / 0) (#163)
    by jmacWA on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 06:31:28 AM EST
    That was a great article.

    Another quote:

    So why have we come to regard the GOP as an institutional danger? In a nutshell, it has proved unable or unwilling (mostly unwilling) to block assaults by Trump and his base on the rule of law.

    77 year old Nancy Pelosi just finished (5.00 / 3) (#130)
    by caseyOR on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 05:09:18 PM EST
    delivering the longest speech ever given in the House of Representatives. She spoke for more than eight hours without a break and wearing 4 inch heels.

    The purpose of the speech was to push Paul Ryan to hold a fair vote in the House on DACA and the future of the Dreamers.

    It was an extreme measure by a Democratic caucus that is using every tool at the disposal of the minority to save the Dreamers.

    I hav no idea if this will move Ryan at all, but huge props to Pelosi for pulling out all the stops.

    Yes, and Leader Pelosi (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by KeysDan on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 05:16:49 PM EST
    then turned it over to 79-year old Maxine Waters.

    INancy Pelosi is one of the most (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by caseyOR on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 05:34:13 PM EST
    effective Congressional leaders in history. I do not always agree with her. I am well aware of that she is not perfect. She is, however, whip smart, extraordinarily knowledgeable about the rules the govern the Congress, very effective at holding the Democratic caucus together, and appropriately withering in her view of Speaker Ryan.

    Today, by sharing the stories of countless Dreamers in her speech, Pelosi made real the humanity of the Dreamers. And she showed the Congress the path to salvaging it's humanity in regards to these young people.

    Go, Nancy.


    I, too, am (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by KeysDan on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 06:27:01 PM EST
    a fan of Leader Pelosi.  We have all heard of the need for "a new face," but, my view is that the effective workings of Congress depend on experience and savvy.  She knows how to count and deliver.  Plenty of space for new and younger leadership in Committees, and, of course, to consider the presidency.

     My biggest, probably only,  bone of contention is her impeachment is off the table announcement after assuming Speakership.  But, she was probably right to not move in that direction, but she did not have to announce her intention. Keep them on edge. I could almost hear the sigh of relief from Cheney's lair.


    My biggest bone of contention... (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 09:40:45 AM EST
    is the appearance of impropriety with her husband's real estate and venture capital business.

    The appearance of insider trading and congressional actions boosting the value of real estate holdings...that sh*t is shady as f&ck to me, though "business as usual" for Congress, and not illegal (go figure).

    Of course, saying good things and doing some good things while grifting is better than saying terrible things and doing terrible things while grifting like Donald and his corrupt and cowardly GOP enablers.  But that don't make it right Boss.


    That's the objection re DiFi. I hadn't (none / 0) (#202)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 08:13:57 PM EST
    heard it re Pelosi.  Maybe immed after Congress ightens up re sexual harassment of subordinates by Congress persons, Congress will make insider trading by themselves a crime. Not holding my breath.

    tRump (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by FlJoe on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 10:18:34 AM EST
    and his mini-me both want to build a wall
    Devin Nunes is spearheading a plan to build a literal wall to separate Republicans and Democrats in the House Intelligence Committee's secure spaces.
    no word yet if he expects the Democrats to pay for it.

    I saw someone make the point (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 06:49:33 PM EST
    that Kelly got rid of the Mooch immediately after one curse filled tirade to the New Yorker but with Porter he defended him and covered for him?

    Kelly really should be gotten rid of. Of course Trump will just find another clone to replace him. It's not like things are going to get any better in the white house with Kelly gone unless someone picks for Trump and doesn't let him have any input on the decision.

    We are expecting ice (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 11:02:48 AM EST
    Up to a half inch.  More than enough for power outage.


    I got the generator, pot, vodka and propane.

    Bring it.

    We are expecting snow, sleet and (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Anne on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 11:36:24 AM EST
    freezing rain, after just having that all day and through the night Sunday.  It was beautifully glittery on Monday when the sun came out, and we never lost power, but the driveway was not fun, and my street - I live at the top of a hill - was like a luge track.  Thank goodness it flattens out far enough before it T's into the road that I could stop.

    I would much prefer snow - enough of it that there's no question no one's going to work; it gets plowed and life goes on.

    We shall see - not like we have any control over it - but I wouldn't mind a guilt-free day home with a good book!


    My driveway (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 12:02:00 PM EST
    Is roughly 45 degrees

    No such luck here. (none / 0) (#26)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 12:49:11 PM EST
    I have not one, but two company issued laptops. I have a docking station and dual monitor setup at home as well. Can't get to work, no excuses not to be able to work.

    It's 75 here in Hilo. (none / 0) (#40)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 02:37:44 PM EST
    Unfortunately, we had at least three to four inches of rain after midnight and our back yard flooded again, prompting me to break out the sandbags from the garage just in case. We're going to have to re-landscape and install some sort of drainage system, or we're going to have some significant problems sooner rather than later. While it's relatively calm at present, there's still a four-inch-deep pool back there, so I just took all the hoses around the house to siphon the water to the street. Severe thunderstorms are forecast for later this afternoon and evening, and Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa are under a winter storm warning.

    Sump pump (none / 0) (#72)
    by jmacWA on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 05:50:26 AM EST
    Good Luck Donald...

    IF it is legal, perhaps a sump pump running to the street in the low spot would be the simplest fix.


    Thanks for the advice. (none / 0) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 01:31:46 PM EST
    I'll look into its legality. The problem is that while our house is sited on a rise overlooking Hilo, our backyard itself is a bit of a bowl. And when we get monsoon-like downpours, which happens more often than I'd like to admit, especially in the wintertime which is our rainy season, the runoff tends to quickly pool there. The other option is to partially re-landscape the backyard, which would require removing or tamping down a side of the bowl to allow for natural drainage, either toward the front yard or into the forest reserve out back.

    Also downloaded (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 11:08:10 AM EST
    Two books and a of Baybalon Berlin.  Just in case.

    Ok (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 01:20:55 PM EST
    I FU@KING LOVE that Musk has named the first off world transport the Big Fu@king Rocket

    Such a waste of a Tesla... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 01:34:03 PM EST
    Roadster though. It would do much more good in my hands!

    What I found to be totally cool ... (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 01:35:34 PM EST
    ... about that launch was seeing those two solid rocket boosters return to Kennedy Space Center in a controlled landing, and gently descend to the launch pad in an upright position.

    I agree, Donald. That landing (none / 0) (#126)
    by caseyOR on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 04:48:25 PM EST
    by those booster rockets was one of the coolest space things I have ever seen.

    As a effects person (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 04:55:52 PM EST
    I had to keep telling myself it was real.

    His cars have three Models: S 3 X (none / 0) (#32)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 01:30:45 PM EST
    When you search for that (none / 0) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 07:23:18 PM EST
    The little pics of the rocket are pixelated



    Trying to post this again (none / 0) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 02:03:20 PM EST
    Julian Castro headed to New Hampshire testing out a 2020 run!!!

    Quentin Tarantino, everybody. (none / 0) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 02:07:05 PM EST
    One word: Yikes.

    Get thee to a P.R. firm pronto, Quentin, before thou openst thy mouth to say anything else.

    Oops, too late.


    Stern missed his calling (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 02:23:54 PM EST
    as an interrogator or a prosecutor. He seems to have the ability to deftly lead a lot of people down a garden path till they step in it, and often jump up and down in it.

    I don't know why Tarantino spoke ... (none / 0) (#44)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 03:05:46 PM EST
    ... spoke to Mike Fleming, Jr. in Deadline, either. He comes across as both arrogant and self-absorbed. I get it that he currently feels himself in the crosshairs and wants to defend himself, but he really should've kept his mouth shut publicly.

    Tarantino was incredibly irresponsible to insist that actress Uma Thurman get behind the wheel of that car, given her stated trepidations to perform the stunt. The film of that crash is chilling. When he heard about it, Uma's estranged then-husband Ethan Hawke felt compelled to journey to the "Kill Bill" set and castigate the director for needlessly endangering the life of the mother of his two children.



    Ultimately, I don't agree with Tarantino here (none / 0) (#119)
    by McBain on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 04:02:35 PM EST
    There are a a few instances where sex with a minor should not be punished such as when an 18yo has consensual sex with a 17yo significant other. Or if an older looking minor lies about their age.  

    I'm all for the Polanski case to go away. I commented many times about how California had it's chance to prosecute and blew it. However, I don't agree with Tarantino's comment that Polanski's action wasn't rape. The only thing I like about it is it's refreshing to hear someone speak their mind.  I used to listen to Stern years ago and often found his show to be more honest about certain things like sex.  


    Please (none / 0) (#48)
    by FlJoe on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 05:38:23 PM EST
    make it stop
    President Trump's vision of soldiers marching and tanks rolling down the boulevards of Washington is moving closer to reality in the Pentagon and White House, where officials say they have begun to plan a grand military parade later this year showcasing the might of America's armed forces.

    The protests and the protesters (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 06:23:45 PM EST
    Will be insane. Protesters will probably die in this. How can our military leaders who are entertaining him not see how this ends? Jesus Christ!  

    And there is this (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 06:11:11 PM EST
    If that parade happens (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 08:13:23 PM EST
    we actually might be able to start to sympathize with the North Koreans and their forced parades to dear leader. We have our own Kim Jung-un now.

    At least our dear leader (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 08:29:19 PM EST
    Doesn't have a goofy cartoon hairdoo



    So many parallels to `Camelot' (none / 0) (#62)
    by Redbrow on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 08:31:01 PM EST
    "An Army Pershing missile mounted on a tank-like carrier catches the sunlight as the inaugural parade for President John F. Kennedy draws attention of spectators along Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington, Jan. 20, 1961. Other missiles, from front, are: Lacrosse, Nike Hercules and Nike Zeus. This view toward the Capitol was made from a stand at the Treasury Department."

    Redbrow: "So many parallels to 'Camelot.'"

    President Andrew Johnson also held a Grand Review of the Armies of the Potomac and Cumberland on May 23 and 24, 1865, to celebrate the Union's military conquest of the rebellious Confederacy. None of this has anything to do with our country in the year 2018.

    And so what if President Kennedy had missiles at his inaugural parade during the Cold War? It was another time and era. At least JFK was opposing the Russians' expansion beyond the Warsaw Pact, and was not actively colluding and conspiring with the Kremlin to subvert our elections and undermine our democratic institutions.



    Our world standing has changed in 57 yrs (none / 0) (#87)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 11:41:08 AM EST

    The global beacon of freedom and democracy doesn't need a military parade. Military parades dim the beacon of freedom, replaces it with force projection.


    Except Jackie was a citizen (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 08:40:19 PM EST
    And had her own money

    Yes, so many (none / 0) (#85)
    by KeysDan on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 11:35:06 AM EST
    historical parallels.  Nurenberg, Berlin in 1939.. very festive for the birthday boy.  While Albert Speer is no longer available, surely General Kelly can organize a grand parade on June 14, Trump's 72nd Birthday.  I can see it now: an old Mercedes touring car, Trump bedecked in a golden military uniform, bands playing " Springtime for Trump and the Deplorables," followed by a medley from Gilbert and Sullivan.

    It will be great.  Please clap.


    Unlike (none / 0) (#99)
    by FlJoe on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 01:29:12 PM EST
    you apologists, we do not hold our leaders up as deities. It was a DK swinging contest then and it would be more of a Dk swinging contest today.

    Why skip the GHW Bush-era (none / 0) (#104)
    by Jack E Lope on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 01:45:41 PM EST
    parade?   (Note: The 4th paragraph may imply that Trump attended that parade.)

    Is it because that Bush-era military parade followed Constitution?


    Military parades (none / 0) (#65)
    by linea on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 09:47:14 PM EST
    Typically, military parades are held on National Day in the capitol city. However, in most countries, the capitol city is also the largest city. It would make most sense to have a military parade in New York (rather than DC) and on the 4th of July (rather than Veteran's Day or some other date).

    Hahaha. That does not meet (4.75 / 4) (#67)
    by Towanda on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 10:22:21 PM EST
    the purpose of this proposed parade, which is not for our country, our capital. . . . This is for Trump's ego.

    And his hometown, New York City, hates him.

    Check the talking points. You're off-script again.


    Maybe some expensive (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 07:57:18 AM EST
    Toy tanks and rockets for him to play with while he watches FOX news

    Most roadways in most cities (none / 0) (#86)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 11:40:27 AM EST
    cannot handle the damage a 25 - 30 ton tracked vehicle would inflict. In NYC, you'd probably end up with military vehicles in a subway tunnel. My company manufactures the Bradleys, the M109A6 Howitzer, M109A7 Howitzer and M88 Recovery tracked vehicles. We have a earthen test track for these vehicles. They run across the parking lot black sparingly because of the crack they cause. Cadet bone spurs should be required to personally pay for all infrastructure damage his toy parade causes.

    Art of the Deal... (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 12:32:49 PM EST
    Bone Spurs can have his Tonka Tank Parade in NYC if the Army Corps of Engineers fixes all our potholes in all 5 Boroughs after the conclusion of the goose steppin' show.

    Never allow the perfect be the (none / 0) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 01:10:55 PM EST
    Enemy of the good?

    Armando wants to negotiate DACA for goose stepping demonstration.


    Jack Jacobs (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 05:11:04 PM EST
    Pointed out something so obvious but that I had not heard.
    That a parade is the worst possible way to honor the troops because they are the people for who the parade sucks the most.  
    Let, he said, Trump line up all the republicans and March them by the reviewing stands filled with troops eating popcorn.

    Or better yet spend the time and money to reduce the wait time at VA clinics.


    I vote VA clinics (none / 0) (#167)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 08:38:11 AM EST
    Am I the only one who didn't know (none / 0) (#53)
    by Anne on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 07:05:53 PM EST
    that if we could just get all the immigrants out, this would be Eden, totally crime-free!

    Sheriff orders the killing (none / 0) (#54)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 07:13:31 PM EST
    ...of an unarmed motorist who was leading deputies on a slow-speed chase.

    Caught on the body-cam mic, the sheriff says in effect that he doesn't want his cars damaged by a "Pitt Maneuver," so he says, "Don't ram him, shoot him."

    So they shot him and he's dead.  Arriving too late to add to the gunfire and unaware he was being recorded, the sheriff talked about how much he enjoyed ordering the shooting.

    This should cost him prison time, but more likely a paid vacation.

    It's a two part process (1.00 / 2) (#63)
    by linea on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 08:31:41 PM EST
    For every police shooting, there is a local/state investigation and an additional Federal review by the Department of Justice to determine whether the person's civil rights were violated.

    In this case, the local District Attorney closed his investigation. I don't believe the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation has closed their review and the DOJ hasn't commented on any investigation at this time.

    The investigation concluded that Dial "was a dangerous and unstable subject who posed a serious and immediate risk of serious bodily injury or death to both law enforcement officers as well as other citizens in the immediate area."

    A toxicology report following Dial's death revealed that his blood tested positive for drugs, including methamphetamine, amphetamine and carboxy-THC.

    Nope. Many police killings (5.00 / 5) (#68)
    by Towanda on Tue Feb 06, 2018 at 10:26:57 PM EST
    in my city are not investigated by the state or the feds.

    What is your source?


    Sigmoid? (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 07:48:10 AM EST
    There is NO automatic investigation (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 11:30:25 AM EST
    by DOJ of local police shootings. There isn't even a single database or reporting mechanism in place on a federal level to track police shootings/murders of citizens. I follow Radley Balko closely (he reports on this stuff for WaPo and wrote a book on the militarization of the police). That has been a complaint amongst anyone who tracks or reports these incidents. The total lack of accountability and lack of data on shooting nationwide.

    Gloria Copeland of Trumps (none / 0) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 07:53:22 AM EST
    Evangelical advisory board on flu outbreak-

    "Jesus himself is our flu shot. He redeemed us from the curse of the flu."

    "We have a duck season, a deer season, but we don't have a flu season and don't receive it when someone threatens you with `everybody is getting the flu,'" Copeland added. "We've already had our shot: He bore our sicknesses and carried our diseases. That's what we stand on. And by his stripes we are healed."

    The (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 07:56:07 AM EST
    You should read the comments (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 08:05:05 AM EST
    These people actually believe Jesus protects them from the flu.  No sh!t.
    Even with all my exposure to religious nuts I did not know this was a thing.

    I like it in the Darwinian sense.


    I'll believe them (none / 0) (#78)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 10:10:19 AM EST
    when they say Jesus is our double decker cheeseburger and our botox.

    Obviously, there's still a "stupid" .. (none / 0) (#91)
    by desertswine on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 12:34:49 PM EST

    So are we supposed to believe that evangelicals (none / 0) (#80)
    by Anne on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 10:25:47 AM EST
    don't get the flu? Or are those who do get it assumed to be not faithful enough?

    Wonder what Jesus thinks about that kind of hubris?


    Sadly (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 10:31:53 AM EST
    I know several evangelical flu sufferers who might take issue.

    A war in heaven?


    These are the same people (none / 0) (#101)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 01:33:13 PM EST
    who say that hurricane victims in other countries, including the children, are being punished for their sins, and that American Christian hurricane victims are being punished for the sins of gay people.



    Miss Copeland sounds (none / 0) (#82)
    by KeysDan on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 11:23:50 AM EST
    like the perfect Trump choice for the open position of Director of the Centers for Disease Control (CDC).   The best people. Even better than Brenda Fitzgerald who simply bought all those cigarette stocks after getting a premier health care position.

    Judge who sentenced Brock Turner (none / 0) (#88)
    by McBain on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 12:03:28 PM EST
    To face recall vote in June
    Voters in California's Santa Clara County will decide this summer whether or not to recall the judge who sentenced Brock Turner to six months in jail for sexually assaulting an unconscious woman outside a fraternity party.

    When you look at the public reaction to this judge and the judges in the Nassar case, the message is clear.... you better be tough on crime.  I don't think that's the right message at all.  

    And yet you didn't seem (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 12:55:08 PM EST
    to have much of a problem with the message sent when a cop shoots a fleeing unarmed man several times in the back..

    It's all a bit puzzling..


    It shouldn't be puzzling to you (none / 0) (#108)
    by McBain on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 02:12:41 PM EST
    If you read my comments you should be able to see a consistency in my philosophy of crime and punishment.
    • Don't rush to judgement based on emotion
    • Don't trust early media reports
    • Better to error on the side of leniency than extreme punishment
    • When there's doubt vote not guilty

    Erring on the side of leniency (none / 0) (#121)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 04:26:51 PM EST
    applying to every situation, or just some situations?

    Of course John Kelly likes Rob Porter. (none / 0) (#106)
    by Anne on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 02:08:15 PM EST
    Of course he urged Porter not to resign.

    White House staff secretary Rob Porter resigned on Wednesday following allegations from both of his ex-wives that he physically and emotionally abused them.

    In a statement confirming his departure, Porter denied the allegations.


    When the White House confirmed Porter's resignation, the administration also circulated statements from several individuals defending Porter's character and work ethic.

    "Rob Porter is a man of true integrity and honor and I can't say enough good things about him. He is a friend, a confidante and a trusted professional. I am proud to serve alongside him," chief of staff John Kelly said in a statement.

    Kelly urged Porter to stay in his position at the White House after the allegations became public, according to reports from the Washington Post and Axios.

    Both of Porter's ex-wives told the Intercept that they told the FBI that Porter abused them in interviews for his security clearance. Kelly was aware of a 2010 protective order Willoughby obtained against Porter and the order kept Porter from obtaining a full security clearance, a senior administration official told Politico.

    Only the best people, right?  I mean, what's a little domestic violence from a person of "true integrity and honor?"

    Kelly is a horror show.

    A man of John Kelly's age and experience (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 08:37:01 AM EST
    Doesn't wake up one morning and out of no where decide to protect wife beating subordinates. I think most women at this point know his past military career now needs some investigative journalism applied to it. We have beaten Marine wives skeletizing in his closet.

    Some Generals run very tight staff ships. And it isn't necessarily a bad thing until the illegal or unethical begins to occur and the General is less than ethical.

    The way Kelly begged Porter to fight to stay and the way Kelly immediately went to guns for Porter until we all got photos, he's done this before and got away with it in the Marine corp.

    Oh yeah....and John Kelly's lies to date? Rep Wilson's speech turned out to be a blatant Kelly lie that he doubled down on until we got video of the speech, then he tripled down on a revamped lie.

    John Kelly is very comfortable with blatant lying. This isn't his first experience with being a liar.

    We need to make certain we have checked Marine corp spouses for damage though. We owe it to Marine spouses to investigate his career thoroughly. Seems pretty obvious he has hurt people, and in the Marine corp being a whistle blower often brings on even more abuse and harrassment that spouses can't escape.


    I wondered about this, too, Tracy; (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by Anne on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 09:01:56 AM EST
    there's just no way this is a one-off - it had too much of a feel of been there, done that.

    And it sends me back to the comments he made some months ago about those good old days when we revered women - there's a thread here, that if pulled, might finally unravel Kelly.  Which would be a good thing - I'm increasingly feeling like he needs to go.

    One thing's for sure: John Kelly and I don't agree on what makes a person someone of honor and integrity; he apparently doesn't see the verbal and physical abuse of one's spouse as a disqualifying factor.  And that's not a judgment he's just now coming to, either.

    And here's another thing: the matter of security clearances.  How is it that so many people in the West Wing, with so many questions and omissions and issues are even allowed to get past the front gate?


    I can't understand how people who (none / 0) (#170)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 09:13:50 AM EST
    Can't pass background checks for security clearances are in the White House handling the most sensitive information.

    And with Kelly, the truth about him is obviously going to be what we can prove. He will lie like a rug until we reveal photographic evidence. Because he operates that way, there has to be some hellacious caca in his military career closet. He's a retired General, he is a creature of habit.


    Porter quite the ladies' man, apparently: (none / 0) (#174)
    by Anne on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 10:16:51 AM EST
    An ex-girlfriend of Porter, who also works in the Trump administration, also reached out to White House counsel Don McGahn in recent weeks when she learned Porter was romantically involved with White House Communications Director Hope Hicks, and she warned McGahn about the abuse allegations from Porter's ex-wives, Politico reported.

    Though the allegations of domestic violence reportedly kept Porter from obtaining a full security clearance, the White House kept him on staff. Porter was a crucial part of White House operations and frequently traveled with President Donald Trump. He also participated in some National Security Council meetings in which classified material was discussed, per Bloomberg News.

    Two White House officials told the New York Times that Porter misled Kelly about the allegations and claimed that his ex-wives were fabricating stories and just trying to cause trouble.


    I am having a little trouble parsing Kelly's later statement, though:

    "I was shocked by the new allegations released today against Rob Porter. There is no place for domestic violence in our society," Kelly said, though he went on to say in the statement that he stood by his previous comments about Porter's work.

    He's shocked by the "new allegations?"  Maybe he means that, as has also been reported, Porter misled him about the accusations ("fake news") and now that more of the story has come out, he's shocked?

    Whatever, Kelly just seems to be digging himself in a little deeper.

    And Hope Hicks?  Dating her is like dating the president's daughter, and we all know how Trump feels about Ivanka...Kelly knowing about Porter and not telling Trump might be a bigger mistake than he realizes.


    See noweasels (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by MKS on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 02:30:54 PM EST
    diary at Big Orange telling Hope Hicks to leave now.

    To leave which of the dangerous situations (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by Peter G on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 08:06:06 PM EST
    she finds herself in? Personal, or employment?

    There are reports that a girlfriend (none / 0) (#177)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 10:40:25 AM EST
    Who he was abusing also called both of his ex wives to see if they had also experienced the abuse.

    I wonder if this is the same girlfriend who contacted McGahn?

    I think the only thing that shocked Kelly was that we were going to get photos.

    Sen Hatch says he doesn't believe all of the women, but he believes some of the women? How many women is Hatch talking about? Porter worked for Hatch before the White House.


    Now Amy Suskind reporting (none / 0) (#178)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 10:46:15 AM EST
    That Hope Hicks may have fabricated Sen Hatch's statement on Porter. WTF?

    Apparently, the FBI specifically asked (none / 0) (#179)
    by Anne on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 12:00:37 PM EST
    one of Porter's ex-wives if Porter would be vulnerable to blackmail, and she said yes, and the reason she gave was that so many people knew about his history of abuse.

    So, Sarah Sanders tells us that it isn't the policy of the WH to discuss security clearances, but that doesn't mean it's not important.  If Porter didn't have a security clearance, how was the WH protecting the secret, sensitive and classified information someone in Porter's position would have had access to?  What safeguards were there?

    Would it be the policy of the WH to discuss why it's seemingly okay for people who can't or shouldn't get clearance to work in the WH?



    No safe guards (none / 0) (#180)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 12:15:17 PM EST
    And they use private email and unencrypted phones too.

    They are a leaking cesspool.

    Trump probably hasn't had a phone conversation with anyone that Russia and North Korea didn't collect.

    Remember when they had compromised John Kelly's phone and broke it?


    In a lot of ways (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by CST on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 09:04:32 AM EST
    Kelly is the perfect stereotype of the worst kind of Bostonian - racist, smug, snobby, good ole boy.  It fits since Trump is the perfect stereotype of the worst kind of New Yorker - racist, snake-oil salesman, con-man, good ole boy.

    I think one of the things I find so frustrating is just how familiar these people are, and the fact that somehow they've made themselves out to be the saviors of the heartland.  They don't give a $hit about the heartland.


    Hey off topic but (none / 0) (#187)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 03:27:15 PM EST
    Wassup with the rash of creepy voodoo murders in Boston?  Voodoo is not part of my memory of the area.

    The area has changed (none / 0) (#199)
    by CST on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 07:47:32 PM EST
    Massachusetts has the third largest Haitian population in the country, after Florida and New York.  It's one of the larger immigrant subgroups in the area.  

    That said, I'm not sure I'd call it a "rash" of voodoo murders, I am only aware of one.


    If Porter's wives had been mugged (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by Towanda on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 03:16:38 PM EST
    and slugged by a guy with brown skin, would Kelly have been more concerned? Would Trump have tweeted about it? Would they have dismissed the issue until there were photos of the beaten women? (because women's testimony is not evidence to be taken seriously, of course).

    I think we know the answer . . . as well as the answer to whether Hicks would be dating the guy.


    Just heard it suggested (none / 0) (#186)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 03:25:48 PM EST
    That Kelly and others were doing what they were at least in part because Kelly is so desperate to keep a person he thought was at least marginally competent because at this point no competent person would consider working there.

    I don't doubt for a minute what you said but this also sounds possible.


    I don't really believe that (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 04:41:43 PM EST
    I know an aide from the Obama White House that was doing backflips trying to stay in the Trump White House, but Kelly kicked him to the curb. He was a military man too.

    I think plenty of folks would Secretary for Kelly. Maybe would have is a better way to put that now. But this job requires a special hand because the President is insane. You have to have staff you can trust and who are willing to lie and misdirect, and manipulate, and schmooze. The Trump up close staff needs to be reliably soulless.

    Perfect job for a social climbing wife beater. They are masters of charm, cover up, and manipulation. And Kelly had something on Porter, so Porter was more controllable. One less worry for Kelly who has a White House that leaks madly. Just like one of Porter's exs stated, because of his secrets Porter is easily compromised...even by John Kelly.


    Any inside dish re Kelly? (none / 0) (#204)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 08:19:19 PM EST
    Was/is he respected by the military personnel he commanded?

    I (none / 0) (#188)
    by FlJoe on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 03:37:01 PM EST
    don't think the line is feckless/competent it's vile/decent.

    Jaw dropping is dead (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 05:02:50 PM EST
    Jaws are in a permanent state of drop.

    Between this and Tillerson saying "yeah, Russia interfered in the election.  And they will again.
     And there is really nothing we can do about it"

    I give up.  I am out of outrage adjectives

    Please let it be Mueller time soon.


    Jesus but Chuck Todd is a tool. (none / 0) (#123)
    by Anne on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 04:42:26 PM EST
    A tool who so obviously wants disarray within the Democratic Party and wants Nancy Pelosi to be its poster child.

    I un-muted just in time to hear him warn Dems they could be falling into a Trump trap on this military parade thing.


    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 05:54:50 PM EST
    Todd is one of the worst out there. I have to wonder if it had been TOM Pelosi attempting to defend the Dreamers he would have acted completely different. I keep waiting for a few more of these media people to be found out to be serial abusers of women Todd is one along with Chris Cilizza.

    His reasoning being what? (none / 0) (#128)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 05:00:21 PM EST
    that not exuding universal praise for Tump's plan will be the equivalent of uppity NFL players taking a knee to the outrage of all red-blooded, white-sheeted Americans?

    Ulysses Grant (none / 0) (#132)
    by KeysDan on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 05:14:57 PM EST
    said "The one thing I never want to see again is a military parade."  Trump says, I want to see a controversy that distracts from the parade of subpoenas from Mueller.

    While the odious Todd's take shakes my opinion a bit, it may be best, at this point, to let him at it.  It may be best, given the energy to be expended by his charges of treason and unAmericanism, to focus on the costs...unless Trump agrees to forego two trips to Mar a Lago to pay for it.  Trump as martinet should hit the pavement with a thud...like the Nunes memo. You just know they will muck it up. I am starting on the jokes as of today.


    I really want to like Elizabeth Warren (none / 0) (#140)
    by ruffian on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 07:42:53 PM EST
    as more than a Senator, but I can't get there. Same same same since she came on the scene. I don't see any new thoughts even fleet across her face.

    It's a good same same same though! (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by kdog on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 09:52:44 AM EST
    I am fine with a president with a lazer sharp focus on the greatest challenge facing this nation, outside maybe climate change....the distribution of wealth, income disparity, and all the god damn grifting.

    A president who worked on nothing else for 4-8 years would be welcome to me...especially considering we haven't had a president seriously address it at all since Reagan really opened the cash register to the grifters almost 40 years ago.


    I know what you mean, ruffian. (none / 0) (#143)
    by caseyOR on Wed Feb 07, 2018 at 07:56:07 PM EST
    In her area of expertise she is great. Knows the material. Good at explaining the material. Excellent advocate.

    But. . .  Her knowledge base beyond that is thin. Too thin for my liking.


    That she actually has a documented area (none / 0) (#164)
    by Anne on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 06:50:49 AM EST
    of expertise probably contributes to the perception that her knowledge is lacking in other areas; I actually don't know much about where she stands or what she knows about things other than the consumer finance-type issues we usually see her talking about.

    Maybe she goes into those other areas in the many town hall events she does - I just don't know.  I feel like I should do some homework/research on this, but I haven't.

    In general, though, I guess where I come down on this is that in a position like the presidency, the things she cares the most about end up getting diluted because there's so much else to do.  

    For sure, she could nominate and appoint people to carry on in her specialty areas - and Lord knows they would be orders of magnitude better than the people Trump has brought in - but I'd have to know a lot more about where she stands on the many other issues that are also important.  I have a sense she's probably very centrist - which in this day and age means she may be a little too much to the right for my taste.


    Yea I've been there (none / 0) (#165)
    by CST on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 07:56:41 AM EST
    For a while.  That's fine.  There are others.

    Frankly, it's the same way I felt about Bernie.  They make great Senators.


    Here we go (none / 0) (#172)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 09:44:27 AM EST
    This from Barbara Starr

    "JUST IN: Russian contractors may have been involved in pro-regime attack on US military advisers and their partner forces  in Syria that led to US counterattack with aircraft and artillery in east of Euphrates. No US wounded."

    And this added (none / 0) (#182)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 12:57:45 PM EST
    U.S. counter-attack in Syria included Air Force AC-130 gunships, F-15s, F-22s, Army Apache helicopter gunships and Marine Corps artillery killing 100 Russian and Assad-backed fighters in 3-hour battle beginning around midnight last night.

    The moon is in the 7th house..... (none / 0) (#176)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 10:31:55 AM EST
    Everyone... (none / 0) (#198)
    by desertswine on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 07:13:27 PM EST
    should have their mind blown once a day.

    ...Neil deGrasse Tyson


    Sports Illustrated to use nude models (none / 0) (#181)
    by McBain on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 12:29:21 PM EST
    for the first time in their swimsuit issue. They'll also have painted words written on them.  Somehow that empowers women and will help prevent sexual assault.
    Still, Day told Vanity Fair that she sees connections between the #MeToo movement and her own work. "It's about allowing women to exist in the world without being harassed or judged regardless of how they like to present themselves," she said. "That's an underlying thread that exists throughout the Swimsuit Issue. You have Harvard graduates, you have billion-dollar moguls, you have philanthropists, you have teachers, you have mothers--you have a full range of women represented in the alumnus of this magazine, and not one of them failed because they wore a bikini."

    -1,032.89 (none / 0) (#184)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 03:08:42 PM EST
    meet the second biggest one day drop ever.

    a thousand here a thousand there....

    They saw the budget (none / 0) (#194)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 06:03:51 PM EST
    and ran away. Apparently tax cuts don't look so good if they add a trillion or so to the budget plus all the military spending which has a low ROI at this point in time. We've gotten whatever we're gonna get as far as the economy goes when it comes to military spending.

    Father who tried to attack Larry Nassar (none / 0) (#189)
    by McBain on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 03:49:51 PM EST
    To donate money he received
    The father of three of Larry Nassar's victims who tried to tackle the former USA Gymnastics doctor last week in court says he will donate more than $30,000 from an online fundraiser created in his name to Michigan groups that help survivors of sexual assault.

    Good move here.  I just hope he doesn't have any tax problems from this.

    He's responsible for the taxes. (none / 0) (#201)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 08:07:14 PM EST
    Why would there be tax issues? (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by Peter G on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 08:15:03 PM EST
    There is no income tax on receiving unsolicited gifts, and if you do receive money as gifts and then donate it to charity, you get the benefit of the charitable deduction against your taxable income. Seems to me like a total win for the would-be Vigilante Dad.

    Ohmygod (none / 0) (#191)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 05:39:23 PM EST
    This was my favoritist thing all day (none / 0) (#192)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 05:57:51 PM EST
    Now I know I've lost my mind!!!!

    But it makes me giggle every time. Everything is such a $h*t$h*w.

    Rand and the golden fleece awards were pretty comical too, but not as good as Omarosa. She's going to make me watch reality tv.


    But which is funnier (none / 0) (#193)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 06:02:27 PM EST
    Crocodile tears Omo or the silly queen with the Kim haircut.

    I loved them both (none / 0) (#195)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 06:10:26 PM EST
    And (none / 0) (#196)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 06:12:04 PM EST
    The snuggie

    CST (none / 0) (#206)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 08, 2018 at 09:38:38 PM EST
    True one did not result in death.   There was the two boys and this

    Police: 5-year-old girl burned in voodoo ritual; 2 are charged