Friday Open Thread

CNN says Florida will be a direct hit. South Florida is evacuating. How are our Florida readers doing?

I think I have good news -- my month long trial that begins 9/18 may settle after all, which means my blogging hiatus will be over next week.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Hurricane Irma Nears Antigua and Barbuda | Florida Hurricane Irma Updates >
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    Most of my prep is done (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 05:47:20 PM EST
    I won't take the screen room windows out until the winds are about to get crazy, but I have all of the furniture and potential projectiles moved indoors.

    I don't like the latest projection models, but nothing I can do about it. Checked in with my neighbors so we know to check on eachother.

    Wish it would just get over with now.

    Riding the storm out in S PBC (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 09:00:59 PM EST
    Plenty of food & water, my moms 1930s era oil lamp (tradition),  tea kettle,  grill and French press.

    Good luck, Molly. (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by caseyOR on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 09:06:20 PM EST
    I hope you come through this okay. If you can, keep us posted.

    Good luck- are you close to where (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 09:15:04 PM EST
    there would be storm surge?

    I'm mostly worried about losing power and trees.


    About 2 miles from the beacho (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 09:51:58 PM EST
    Just past the FEC RR (wrong side of the tracks, right side for the storm though).evacuation zone D, which has not been ordered to evacuate. Doubtful we will need to.

    We upgraded to hurricane impact windows and doors about 10 years ago. Loss of power is a possibility. If the predictions hold true I think we should avoid most of the high winds.

    Depending on power loss I may not be able to post anything after the storm for awhile. I'll post when I am able.

    I still read blogs, including this one.  I just don't comment as often as I once did. The Bush era took a lot out of me and life has been complicated since 2010. December 2015, I heeded the counsel of several of my friends and accepted a position that has been fast paced, rewarding and challenging. I've haven't been this happy practicing law in awhile and I was stagnating and being suffocated in my previous position.  


    Gad to hear your new position (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 05:08:34 AM EST
    worked out so well for you. Very good!

    Looks like it lightly rained all night. Radar shows the storm that came through here yesterday moving out. Don' think it was part of Irma, probably just a normal storm.

    I do want to get the dog (and myself) to the park one more time before we have to hunker down so I hope for a dry morning.


    Good luck yourself. (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 09:09:28 AM EST
    I will be looking for your posting post storm. Last forecast I saw shows we should be in pretty good shape (if one can be in a hurricane). We will see  how well Frequent Power Loss  does in handling this crises.

    Fill the bathtub (5.00 / 6) (#31)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 11:32:17 AM EST
    I knew everything to do for weather-related emergencies except for one, when I lived in a place where we lost water service. I learned to fill the bathtub to be able to flush the toilet.

    The rest of my tips are for blizzards, and you are spared those.


    Filled up two bathtubs! (5.00 / 5) (#34)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 11:39:48 AM EST
    Heck with the flushing, I plan to drink it if I have too. Run it through a filter pitcher and it's good to go.. Better than driving all over town looking for bottled water like many of my neighbors did. My personal pet peeve.

    Lol, to be clear...drinking the water in the (5.00 / 5) (#35)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 11:40:41 AM EST
    Bathtub....not the toilet. I'm not crazy!

    Pool water works for that (none / 0) (#36)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 11:54:11 AM EST
    Yes, our apartment had a pool (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 01:28:31 PM EST
    and I well remember the sight of all of us heading to the pool with buckets, even wastebaskets. . . .

    We have Duke Energy up here (none / 0) (#32)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 11:37:04 AM EST
    I was impressed last year, I didn't lose power for a minute during Matthew. Hope I am as lucky this time!

    Been I touch with a friend whose father in law with Alzheimer's was in a nursing home near Tampa that got evacuated to someplace near Disney. but the family took him to a Spring Hill to family home because he gets violent around strange people and the situation with the shelter was going to be tough. Now Spring Hill is getting evacuate too. They have other family nearby too they are trying to get situated with.

    What a mess. Can only imagine the million other similar stories, and worse, since at least these people have plenty of resources.


    i have relatives in Naples (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 07:57:01 AM EST
    the last i heard they were not planning to leave.  

    just heard (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 08:18:23 AM EST
    they decided to go north so they went to other relatives in Port Richey.

    which ended up still being right in the path.

    so much for evacuation i guess.


    depends on where they were v were they are now (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 09:39:21 AM EST
    Could be they were in a evacuation zone due to surges and are now in a place where they are much safer from a storm surge. You have to know the local terrain.

    Here we have Zones A-E.  A & B were ordered to evacuate, C (last I heard)  was voluntary evacuation. I am in D. I've never known it to be evacuated or flooded. There is a  Zone B is just on the other side of RR tracks about 1/4 of a mile from me. The ocean is about 1.5 to 2 miles away.

    I am looking outside my home office window and I can see the 25" Areca Plams* swaying to the wind gusts every few minutes. I have 2 banana trees with green bananas that need more time before harvesting that I am worried about. Miniatures and sweeter than anything you can buy in the grocery store.

    *along the back fence providing a zone of privacy from my neighbor. We can hear each other, but we can't see each other without a ladder.


    My sister is in the Tampa area. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by caseyOR on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 01:25:36 PM EST
    Not in Tampa itself and not, thank god, on the bay. She is more inland.

    As of two hours ago they were staying put in their house. This worries me to no end as they do not have impact windows or even plywood.

    They are fairly certain that their house is not in an area that will be impacted by the storm surge. They are a bit northeast of Brandon. I have no knowledge of that area, so I don't know how much danger they are in.

    And so I worry. And remained glued to All Irma All the Time on MSNBC.


    My French bird dog is from Brandon (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 01:44:24 PM EST
    I know the area. Can't say for certain but my guess is they are correct.

    You can get an idea from flood insurance maps  

    Just plug in their address

    I hope they are in. C or at least B area


    Me too Casey (none / 0) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 06:03:01 PM EST
    Josh's old high school in Southern Alabama sent out a message of no school on Monday, just in case Irma doesn't make that sharp turn North.

    I may be headed South to pick up oldest child and grandchildren.


    word is now (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 09:40:19 AM EST
    they plan to go to still other relatives (theirs not necessarily mine) that is at least farther inland.

    no place to hide.


    stay safe Molly and Ruffian! (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 04:19:56 PM EST
    We're thinking about you.

    Glad to hear about your new position Molly. No one  should have to work at a job they don't enjoy.


    Where are you, more or less (none / 0) (#11)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 08:06:36 PM EST

    Orlando (none / 0) (#12)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 08:37:21 PM EST
    East of the airport, kind of near UCF.

    Looks,like it's gonna be breezy!


    Saw a gator in the retention pond today (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 08:40:17 PM EST
    Hoping it's not a precursor of Gatornado!

    Now it looks like this damn storm (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by fishcamp on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 01:19:37 AM EST
    may go right over my house on it's way to the Gulf side.  Naturally they don't really know until it finishes smashing Cuba.  We're getting the first rain and wind bands now.  Direct TV is in and out.  Don't know why I'm still up after a long day of wrangling hurricane shutters, especially since tomorrow is another big day with my neighbors shutters.  He's an old guy, even older than me.  Buenas noches.

    Good (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by FlJoe on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 05:16:33 AM EST
    luck, it looks like my neck of the woods is pretty safe for now. Looks like the eye will pass 100 miles to our west.

    You and (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 08:13:55 AM EST
    Fl Joe please stay safe and know that we all here care about you guys.

    Yes, it now looks like the keys are going to get hit hard. I'm so sorry and I hope your home comes out relatively unscathed.


    Yes, Irma is here now. (5.00 / 7) (#26)
    by fishcamp on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 09:21:27 AM EST
    It's getting wild and wet, and it's just starting.  Looks like it will pass over the lower keys on it's way to the Gulf side of Florida.  We'll be ok.  More to do with my neighbor and his stuff.  later,   stormcamp

    Bless you for being a good neighbor (5.00 / 6) (#33)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 11:38:05 AM EST
    . . . as I well remember when friends had to head into hurricanes, over and over, to help parents in Florida ready for the storms.  All of their friends there had died or moved back north with their children, for this reason -- as my friends' parents finally had to do, moving back here.  They enjoyed seing more of their family here, but they would have liked to be able to stay there.  You make that possible for your neighbor.

    Hang in there, fish. (none / 0) (#40)
    by caseyOR on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 01:26:13 PM EST
    Thanks for the update.

    The trigger Trump cronies (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 11:27:07 AM EST
    Who can't get to him anymore because of The Church Lady Kelly, now have a nickname for his female deputy. She is nurse Ratched. You can't see the President without an appointment through Kelly, and you can't see Kelly without an appointment through Kirstjen. Multiple perimeters.

    It will in the end probably drive Trump out of his mind. Too controlled. But he's friendly right now.

    Ha! (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by leap on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 12:31:06 PM EST
    This could push Drumphth over the edge. That Vicente...Donny John's best troll!

    I love that guy (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 05:49:10 PM EST
    Vincente is my President

    My thoughts and best wishes (5.00 / 5) (#43)
    by Zorba on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 02:26:15 PM EST
    Are with all those affected by Irma, as well as those recovering from Harvey.  And those in the West dealing with the fires.

    And to perhaps get people's minds off of the terrible news, here is a Greek recipe.  I realized that I haven't posted one in quite awhile.

    Agginaropita (Artichoke Phyllo Pie)

    Two pounds artichoke hearts, canned or frozen and defrosted, cleaned and chopped
    Handful of dill, finely chopped
    Handful of Italian parsley, finely chopped
    One bunch green onions, chopped
    2 eggs
    1 pound good quality Feta, crumbled
    1/3 cup grated Kefalotyri, Parmesan or Pecorino Romano
    3 tablespoons olive oil
    One stick of melted butter or more, as needed
    Freshly ground black pepper
    12 sheets of phyllo

    Preheat oven to 375 degrees. Oil the baking dish and set aside. In a large bowl, combine the artichokes, dill, parsley, Feta, grated cheese, pepper and eggs and stir until mixed thoroughly. Add the 3 tablespoons olive and stir (adding a little more if the mixture seems too dry).

    Working quickly, take a sheet of phyllo and layer it in the baking dish, which has been brushed with melted butter. Brush the top with butter and repeat layering with 5 more sheets of phyllo (brushing each with butter before topping with the next). Spoon filling evenly over phyllo and then begin layering remaining 6 sheets of phyllo over top, brushing each with butter before topping with the next. Pinch edges of phyllo to form a crust around the pie and brush top layer well with butter.

    With a sharp knife, score only the top layers of phyllo into serving sizes (this will make cutting the pie later much easier). Bake the pie in the center of the oven until the phyllo is golden, about 45 minutes. Let it cool before serving.

    Zorba, I love your recipes (none / 0) (#155)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 02:26:51 PM EST
    Please keep them coming!



    Ditto Zorba. Stay safe all you Floridians! (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by vicndabx on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 06:17:12 PM EST
    Remember to bring an axe or other chopping tool inside just in case you are forced to retreat to an indoor location without egress and need to get out/on your roof.

    Chainsaws (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 06:38:49 PM EST
    were at an absolute premium after Hugo for my family members. So desperate were people for them that my grandfather left his on his porch for a little while and when he got back it was gone.

    After Irma's Black Throated Wind... (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 02:25:19 PM EST
    pours in, there is good news for Floridians...two stops on The Dead & Co. Fall Tour in Orlando & Sunrise.

    After seeing them in Camden this summer, and Bob & Phil two weeks ago, and Phil in Central Park with Melvin Seals on 8/30...Wheel is turnin' and we can't slow down now!

    Our cousins in St. Augustine (none / 0) (#2)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 02:44:53 PM EST
    (one of whom is on dialysis) have evacuated for Georgia. (Their place is maybe 250 yards from the beach.) Although looking at the map, Georgia is exactly where Irma is heading next. Our friends in Puerto Rico are without power (although somehow their email is working), but otherwise feel they experienced a near miss. Our friend who lives on St. Croix, USVI, is ok, with power restored, but a colleague on St. Thomas, USVI, which was one of the islands worst hit, has not yet been heard from.

    We are (none / 0) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 04:08:50 PM EST
    (Metro Atlanta) supposed to be getting hit with either a tropical storm or a category 1 hurricane Tuesday morning. Though wherever they are in GA they're most likely much safer than they would have been in Florida.

    floods, fires, earthquakes and (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 03:58:41 PM EST
    solar flares

    NASA has reported a huge solar flare being emitted by the Sun, the most powerful since 2006, which has already caused some radio blackouts on Earth - and it may cause aurora visible as far south as London.

    The flare was one of two emitted by the Sun yesterday morning (September 6), seen by NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO). At 5.10am EDT, the Sun unleashed an X2.2 flare, with X-class denoting the most intense flares. Then, at 8.02am EDT, a much bigger flare measuring X9.3 was unleashed.

    The last time we saw a flare this big was in 2006, which measured at X9.0. The number shows the intensity, with X2 being twice as intense as X1, X3 three times as intense, and so on.

    the good news is if you are far enough north (I am not) you might see the Northern Lights

    "The Amazing Adventures of Pharma Bro": (none / 0) (#5)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 04:41:35 PM EST
    "So on HRC's book tour, try to grab a hair from her. I must confirm the sequencing I have. Will pay $5,000 per hair obtained from Hillary Clinton. Payment after the sequence matches. Good luck patrollers."
    - Martin Shkreli, Facebook post (Sept. 4, 2017)

    In which corporate America's favorite self-indulgent little brat outside the Trump family -- and now-convicted felon -- is now facing immediate incarceration by federal authorities, for having apparently violated a federal law prohibiting threats against the immediate family members of former presidents.

    While Martin Shkreli insists that he was joking when he publicly put out a bounty on Hillary Clinton's locks, the U.S. Secret Service doesn't find it very funny and has increased security around the former first lady accordingly. Given the crackpot who recently fired a shot inside a crowded suburban D.C. pizza parlor that white-wing human incendiary bomb Alex Jones insisted was a front for a child prostitution ring controlled by Mrs. Clinton, I can't say I'm surprised. There are a lot of nuts out there.

    To paraphrase the now-immortal words that an almost certain target in Robert Mueller's Trump-Russia investigation now likely wishes he never uttered at the 2016 Republican National Convention, "Lock him up."


    United Airlines won't be fined for the (none / 0) (#7)
    by McBain on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 06:20:42 PM EST
    Dr. Dao dragging incident.
    According to the Department of Transportation letter, its investigation of the April 9 incident found that United Airlines failed to calculate the proper compensation for one of the five passengers who were removed from the flight.
    But the Transportation Department also said it found no proof that United used race, national origin, gender or religion criteria to discriminate against any of the passengers removed from the plane.

    Not surprising (none / 0) (#10)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 07:31:11 PM EST
    How much did United end of paying him in the settlement?

    Education Department to change how campus (none / 0) (#8)
    by McBain on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 07:20:20 PM EST
    sexual assault cases are handled.

    Judging by DeVos's speech, what has been portrayed as a rollback of Title IX is really an embrace of a framework of compatibility: one in which Title IX seriously addresses sexual violence and also requires fairness to the accuser and the accused.

    Hopefully, this will result in fewer expulsions with flimsy evidence.

    She pointed to a recent case in which the University of Southern California disbelieved a female student's insistence that she had merely "roughhoused" with her boyfriend, and expelled him for his alleged abuse over her objection.

    "Flimsy evidence"? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 07:28:24 PM EST
    You're familiar with the evidence against Boermeester?  That would be strange, considering it's confidential.

    i agree with (none / 0) (#29)
    by linea on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 10:55:49 AM EST
    Title IX has been law for 45 years, ... (none / 0) (#45)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 04:40:11 PM EST
    ... having been signed by President Richard Nixon in a White House Rose Garden ceremony at 9:30 a.m. on June 23, 1972. My former boss Congresswoman Patsy Mink (D-HI), who was the primary author of Title IX (since renamed the Patsy T. Mink Equal Opportunity in Education Act after her death in Sept. 2002), was an invited guest at that signing and received one of the pens that Nixon used to sign the bill into law.

    And immediately following that ceremony, Nixon returned to the Oval Office for a scheduled meeting with White House Chief of Staff H.R. "Bob" Haldeman at 10:00 a.m., during which he ordered the CIA to impede and derail the FBI's investigation of the break-in at Democratic National Committee headquarters in the Watergate Hotel and Office Complex.

    Thus, within one hour of having signed Title IX into law, Nixon committed felony obstruction of justice by initiating the attempted cover-up of what soon became known as the Watergate scandal. It was a charge he would vehemently deny until the public release of the audiotape of that "smoking gun" conversation finally compelled the president's resignation from office on August 9, 1974.

    And as Mrs. Mink often observed in telling that story of the Title IX Rose Garden ceremony, Nixon was a complicated man capable of both great and horrible things. Who would've ever known or guessed that immediately after signing into law one of the most progressive pieces of legislation in the history of women's rights, he'd then sow the seeds of his own political destruction by ordering the Watergate cover-up? She found it one of the more strange yet fascinating historical coincidences in timing.



    I don't think DeVos is going to get rid of (none / 0) (#49)
    by McBain on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 06:08:35 PM EST
    Title IX.  I think she wants to make some much needed changes on how those accused of sexual assault are treating by universities.  

    Speaking from a university (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 06:12:27 PM EST
    the Obama letter made quite clear the protections to be in place for all involved.

    Have you read the Obama letter?


    The actual implementation of the Obama-era (4.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Peter G on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 09:37:46 PM EST
    Dept of Education letter at many, many colleges and universities --  including very liberal ones -- virtually precluded fundamental fairness to the accused. I have seen it up close, both as applied to students who sought assistance in our office and as applied to sons of friends. The process was crying out for reform. Not saying DeVoss has the answer (that seems rather unlikely), but real reform is very much needed.

    I have read that, but nothing (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Towanda on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 11:16:14 AM EST
    that I have read about the changes to come suggest that this problem of implementation is addressed.  

    Of course, the variance between intent and implementations of laws is too common.

    And I continue to read of just as many cases in which campuses continue to victimize the women students, most often the victims.

    If Vos figures it out, fine. But nothing about her or this administration suggests that is ahead.


    i'm sorry. that's not right. (2.00 / 1) (#59)
    by linea on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 01:34:39 AM EST
    If I interpret wrong, than I'm sorry, but i'm tik angry!! nothing is crying out for reform. the absurd (misnomer) 'men's rights' women hating echo-chamber has relentlessly been pushing an agenda complaining that they can't drug and date-rape. they repeatedly post discredited false naratives.

    The actual implementation of the Obama-era
    by Peter G
    Dept of Education letter at many, many colleges and universities --  including very liberal ones -- virtually precluded fundamental fairness to the accused.

    I stated the factual basis for my opinion (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Peter G on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 07:47:55 AM EST
    There was nothing to "interpret." Facts are facts. They don't always conform to preconceived opinion. To imply that I am part of a "woman hating echo-chamber" that pushes "men's rights" is insulting and absurd. Nor did I deny that that involuntary drugging or date rape exists; of course they do. I made a direct and clear comment about procedural fairness for the accused. That some of the accused are guilty is essentially immaterial. You claim (although you immediately apologize (twice) for doing so, which I also don't understand) that what I assert is not "right." On what basis do you say so? I doubt you have any.

    I think there are two things going on: (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Anne on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 09:17:18 AM EST
    One: a lot of  people who claim to be staunch defenders of people's rights sometimes balk when those rights slam up against actions and behaviors they find abhorrent.  And while it's true that what is taking place isn't happening within the criminal justice system, the decisions made nevertheless have the power to affect not just the accuser, but the accused.

    In the interest of trying to make it possible for victims to have procedures to follow and the support of the system, I don't think it's impossible that those procedures could be overlooking or giving short shrift to the accuseds' ability to defend themselves.

    Two: If a woman had written your comment, would she be a woman-hater?  Is Betsy Devos a woman-hater?  Because as Secretary of Education, this is all happening at her direction.  

    Not that we have any reason to believe Devos will not make a hash of this - this is the same person who is trying to end the CFPB's oversight of the student loan industry (which is all of a piece with her other decisions on student lending).

    Finally, maybe this could really be distilled to the fact that being a defender of rights doesn't make anyone a defender of unacceptable behavior.


    Anne, RAY DONAVON (none / 0) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 11:30:54 AM EST
    i would be interested in the take of another fan.

    i am mixed.

    i get the logic.  everyone is suddenly vulnerable in new ways.  still,  so far, its a little weepy for me.  this has not been a weepy show.  i am hoping it gets less weepy.

    Bunchy is to stupid to live.  my sympathy for that character is over extended.



    Howdy, I had high hopes for this season, (none / 0) (#86)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 12:46:56 PM EST
    as I was edging into "not-sure-I-can-take-too-much-more-of-Donovan-family-dysfunction" after last season, but I have found my eyes beginning to roll quite a bit this season.  I feel like the writers are trying to make the characters more real, but I feel like they're just more maudlin.  Because underneath, they are still the same.  Are we supposed to feel better about Ray's infidelity because, poor fella, his wife's got terminal brain cancer?  Is it more understandable now?  I feel like it's just one more thing he can feel bad about himself for doing.

    Agree about Bunchy, but then, I'm beginning to think maybe the gene for "stupid" is a dominant one in the Donovan line.  

    I guess I keep waiting for these people to be more than just the caricatures the writers have made them - and so far, they aren't.  

    I actually fell asleep watching last night, so I have about half of the episode to finish.  I guess the plot line of a drunken Avi being shoved into a trunk by Mickey was too much for me.  Last week's slice-and-dice was just ridiculous.  Can't wait for the just-poured concrete to dissolve and body parts to start washing up on the shore...

    The series I need to get started on is The Deuce - I've recorded the first episode and from the reviews, at least, think it will be miles better than Ray.

    I'm going to keep watching Ray, for now - maybe it's going to get better, but it has a long way to go to get there.


    thank you (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 01:06:21 PM EST
    i thought it was me.

    oh (none / 0) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 01:07:13 PM EST
    The Deuce
    OMG yes.  so good.

    Doesn't matter - you're a man (none / 0) (#64)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 08:02:18 AM EST
    Feelings trump facts.  Anger rumps logic.  Sexism (real or imagined) trumps all, including the need to conflate your genuine/informed concerns with those of a "women hating echo chamber".

    You have the patience of a saint.


    go away (none / 0) (#77)
    by linea on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 08:02:46 PM EST
    i don't believe anyone, other than the same few trolls that you pander to, takes your absurd misrepresentation of my character seriously.

    Doesn't matter - you're a man
    by Yman
    Feelings trump facts.  Anger rumps logic.  Sexism (real or imagined) trumps all

    Heed your own advice (none / 0) (#83)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 09:22:23 PM EST
    My "representations" are spot on.  But you're probably quite accustomed to people not taking you seriously ...

    i didn't mean that (none / 0) (#73)
    by linea on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 07:26:03 PM EST
    To imply that I am part of a ...

    i never meant to imply that.

    i was trying to explain that there has been, for many years, a vocal anti-Title-IX movement pushed by the same traditionalist-monarchist types who hysterically assert that women are 'destroying western civilization.'

    we are talking about college students getting expelled for conduct. this isn't some lowered standard for legal criminal conviction. it's little more than holding ADULTS to the same standard of conduct that would get a High School student expelled from school.


    If that was some sort of apology, Linea (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Peter G on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 08:30:28 PM EST
    I accept it. If you are denying that your comment could only reasonably be understood as containing a vile, calumnious, personal attack, on an issue that is one of the most important to me and closest to my heart -- that is, my feminism -- then, at very least, you need to practice rereading what you write a few times before you hit "post."

    thank you? (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 11:31:44 AM EST
    I also found that comment (#81) (none / 0) (#89)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 02:57:15 PM EST
    a little confusing. Ok, more than a little.

    Really? (none / 0) (#91)
    by NYShooter on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 03:30:39 PM EST
     "...you need to practice rereading what you write a few times before you hit "post."

    Linea found your advice/suggestion worthy, so, she says, "thank you."

    That's strange?


    I didn't say it was strange. I said (none / 0) (#94)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 04:01:03 PM EST
    it was confusing. I offered Linea two different responses, based on two possible interpretations of her message that I took to be highly insulting. She said "thank you," which failed to clarify her intentions, and might have been a reply to either alternative response, or perhaps both. Thus, it was confusing. But thanks for trying to help.

    thank you (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 04:23:49 PM EST
    Do you consider this exchange (none / 0) (#97)
    by oculus on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 04:36:34 PM EST
    a worthy use of your considerable intellect?

    I do (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 04:39:31 PM EST
    thanks for asking

    Peter, linea may have been thanking you (none / 0) (#98)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 04:37:41 PM EST
    for accepting her apology.  Perhaps she will pop in and clarify.

    Yes, I agree, that is quite possible (none / 0) (#100)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 04:53:54 PM EST
    but I think Oculus has the best point. Enough with all this. Back to issues.

    thank you (none / 0) (#81)
    by linea on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 08:41:23 PM EST
    I did and I don't remember (2.00 / 1) (#54)
    by McBain on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 09:01:57 PM EST
    it doing much to protect the rights of the accused.  Can you elaborate?

    I do remember the letter including the famous "1 in 5" statistic that listed unwanted kissing as sexual assault.


    re: "unwanted kissing" (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by linea on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 12:57:42 AM EST
    are you serious?
    from the link you provided:
    sexual battery (assaults involving sexual contact only, such as forced kissing or fondling).

    do you have any idea? any idea what it's like to be grabbed and to realize you are powerless as some perv shoves his tongue in your mouth? it was quite a shock for me. i actually, foolishly, thought i could push or shove his arms off me. but the first time it happened to me (i was grabbed, like a bear-hug) i realized i was powerless. it's a horrible, shocking, thing to experience. i still think about it!


    It's too vague (none / 0) (#74)
    by McBain on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 07:33:45 PM EST
    One person's interpretation of an incident (not necessarily yours) could be assault.  Another person could see it as someone making an awkward pass. This is why I believe the 1 in 5 statistic is misleading.    

    But unwanted kissing IS assault. (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 06:03:56 AM EST
    It's no different than unwanted grabbing or fondling. Honestly, why can't men just keep their hands (and tongues) to themselves, and why can't you refrain from making any further excuses for them? We don't have a right to cop a feel just because we want to do so.

    Because human romance/sexuality (2.00 / 3) (#76)
    by McBain on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 07:40:17 PM EST
    is often awkward and frustrating.  Men usually  have to make the first move and guess if it's the right time.  It's not easy reading someone's mind.

    Maybe you want men to ask permission before they try to kiss a woman?  


    Why not? How hard is it to (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by caseyOR on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 08:25:29 PM EST
    ask someone if you can kiss them? That takes the guesswork out of things.

    A woman should, also, ask before kissing (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by caseyOR on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 05:15:39 PM EST
    someone. This conversation has focused on men kissing women, but that is not the only romantic/sexual scenario in the real world.

    So, anyone who wants to kiss someone, regardless of gender, should ask first. And if the answer is "no thanks" do not kiss that person.


    Everyone, male or female, should ask (5.00 / 3) (#103)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 06:09:00 PM EST
    anyone they wish to kiss - even children - and respect the response.  Maybe especially children, who need to know from a young age that they have the right to dominion over their own bodies, and the right to refuse to be kissed, or hugged or touched.

    One thing that has always driven me nuts is when parents insist their children kiss/hug people, and shame them with "that's not nice," when they decline or shy away.


    What an interesting comment, Anne. (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 07:54:57 PM EST
    Thanks for getting me to think about something I never considered before.

    Agree so much (none / 0) (#113)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 10:11:50 AM EST
    Forcing children to be physically affectionate sure sends a mixed signal when you want children to be able to do whatever they are able to do to protect themselves from predators.

    I am still a bit disturbed by the Deep South's cultural teachings to children. They must be obedient to someone simply because they are an adult.

    I was not raised that way out West. I was not raised to be disrespectful to others either. I was raised that respect is earned though.

    I may be wrong, but I believe when it comes to hidden child molestation, the South is 20 yrs behind in dealing with that. Their predators are very enabled.  They don't understand the dynamics nor do they want to.


    Southerners are 20 years behind (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 10:32:07 AM EST
    in dealing with any kind of family dysfunction. They refuse to deal with anything. They just sweep everything under the rug. As the child of two Mississippians, I know from experience. The book Prince of Tides really spoke to me in that respect. Pat Conroy is spot on about growing up in the south and growing up military. The Great Santini spoke to me on the latter subject. My parents were from Mississippi and my father was career Navy.

    I really (none / 0) (#119)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 11:16:23 AM EST
    could relate to Pat Conroy too. It's all about the perfection illusion. I have a cousin who went through rehab for alcoholism and came home with his one year coin. He showed it to his mother and she just said nothing and handed it back to him. I told him I thought it was great he had made it a year. I guess she was ashamed that he had been an alcoholic and did not want to discuss it. My mother's favorite phrase is "we're not going to talk about that right now".

    Is there some reason a man shouldn't (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by Anne on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 08:25:31 PM EST
    ask permission to kiss a woman?

    I'd be shocked if that's what most women (2.00 / 1) (#90)
    by McBain on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 03:03:18 PM EST
    really want.  

    It sometimes takes courage for a man to make a move.  Women tend to like brave men.  


    Asking if you can kiss someone (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by caseyOR on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 03:38:48 PM EST
    does not take any less courage than "making a move."

    As to what women want, well, it certainly seems you have no clue.


    Yes, we do tend to like brave men. That is why we (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by vml68 on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 03:43:20 PM EST
    like men who have the courage (also respect) to ask our permission before kissing us.

    It sometimes takes courage for a man to make a move.  Women tend to like brave men.

    If you ask first, then it takes the guessing out of whether a woman is just being very friendly or if she is really into you. Plus, it also avoids a slap to your face/knee to your groin situation. A win win for everyone!


    I don't know where you're getting (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 04:35:44 PM EST
    your information about what women want, but it seems pretty clear to me that you would rather impose your own perceptions upon a woman rather than pay her the respect she deserves by asking her.

    A man who doesn't have enough respect for a woman to ask her if he may kiss her isn't brave, he's selfish and maybe not too bright.  And he telegraphs a rather offensive message that he somehow knows better than she does what she wants.  

    That is not a trait that bodes well for a relationship.


    I'm getting my info from the real world (1.00 / 2) (#105)
    by McBain on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 08:06:24 PM EST
    not the crazy politically correct version some choose to live in.  In the real world men take charge, take risks and women usually appreciate them for it.  Sometimes they don't and it's awkward but not a crime.

    Well, finally we have something to agree on (5.00 / 3) (#106)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 08:19:22 PM EST
    Being a boor and a bully is (usually) not a crime.

    I have a feeling in your (un)real world, (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by vml68 on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 10:11:18 PM EST
    women also appreciate it when men club them over the head and drag them by the hair back to their cave.

    In the real world men take charge, take risks and women usually appreciate them for it.

    I guess we live in different worlds, then. (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 07:53:36 AM EST
    I am a woman, and am also the mother of two grown daughters, so perhaps I can enlighten you just a little on why asking permission is important.

    This has nothing to do with political correctness; it has to do with vulnerability and maintaining control over one's body.

    It has to do with what most people know and something which hasn't changed since time began: starting from about the age of 12, pretty much all guys think about is s-e-x.  High school and college guys?  The hormones rage like a river, and all the first base/second base/third base stuff is what leads to the holy grail of the home run.

    So, kissing, my friend, is a gateway to the big prize.  And every woman alive knows this.  They know that it doesn't take much to turn a nice guy into a caveman who can use his physical advantages to dominate and overpower and take from her what is not his to take without her express permission.  Throw copious amounts of alcohol into the mix, and the potential for trouble is significant.

    Ever been afraid you were going to be raped?  I don't know a single woman who hasn't had that feeling or fear.  Not a single one.  

    The only thing I can think is that you must live in Stepford, a land where women are like pieces of property, there for the taking, just waiting for you to take charge and have your way with them, and where they are happy to be of service.

    I sincerely hope you do not have daughters absorbing the message that they aren't deserving of basic respect, or sons who are absorbing the message that women don't matter.


    It has to do with you convincing yourself (1.00 / 1) (#117)
    by McBain on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 10:45:40 AM EST
    things are different than they really are.  Like it or not, most women prefer the man to be the aggressive one in the bedroom.  

    I think we've pretty clearly determined (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 11:12:12 AM EST
    that you don't have a clue what "most women want," so you should probably stop trying to so aggressively force your uninformed opinions on us.

    You can pretend all you want (1.00 / 1) (#121)
    by McBain on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 11:44:59 AM EST
    it won't change reality.  Won't change how people are wired.  I'm not forcing my opinions on anyone.  If you don't want to continue the discussion, don't respond. Human sexuality is a very interesting topic that people should be able to discuss honestly.  

    This tread started with a post I made about potential changes to the Title IX campus sexual assault guildlines/procedures.  The  unrealistic mentality that men should ask permission for making a move can lead to unfair rulings/penalties.  It's time to move forward, not back.



    bottom line (5.00 / 3) (#122)
    by CST on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 11:56:35 AM EST
    No one will be offended if you just ask.

    People have different boundaries.  Personally, if anyone touches me intentionally, even so much as an arm around my shoulder, without asking - we will have a problem.  I've had people I just met through mutual friends try to get buddy-buddy with me and it makes me deeply uncomfortable to the point where I just don't hang out with those people.  And that's not sexual assault that's just habitual personal space invaders.

    Now, maybe you think it's not your problem if your actions make someone else uncomfortable - but that doesn't make you morally in the right, it makes you an @sshole.

    Whether women want men to be the aggressor is besides the point, asking to kiss someone IS making the first move. Human sexuality is complicated, that's why conversations are necessary, to uncomplicate them.


    Anecdote: plumber recommended (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 01:58:19 PM EST
    on Yelp, upon leaving my house, having met me maybe 20 minutes earlier, gives me a big hug.  Huh?

    California. (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 02:13:22 PM EST
    Yeah california (none / 0) (#133)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 05:46:02 PM EST
    Just check both hands to see which one the shiv is in before it finds your back.

    Phony new age pond scum.


    Wow. (none / 0) (#134)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 05:51:39 PM EST
    Something tells me (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by CST on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 03:02:13 PM EST
    We shouldn't move to Italy.

    How did you react? (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 03:02:52 PM EST
    I would have freaked. Male or female, I don't like strangers hugging me.
    I find hugging and the saying of "I love you", to anybody and everybody (not close friends and family), for just about any reason, a very american thing.

    I didn't. But I (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 03:23:53 PM EST
    won't be calling him again.  He also asked me how I got his name and seemed quite surprised when I said "yelp."  

    Note to self... (none / 0) (#145)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 11:16:36 AM EST
    Don't bring oculus to anymore Dead scene shows or hippie festivals.  Did no one give you a patented "free hug" at Ratdog?

    Down at the Lockn Festival a few weeks ago, I was sitting in my lawn chair for a respite after grooving hard to Widespread Panic, and a whimsical hippie girl goes and sensually runs her fingers through my hair as she walks by.  It was an electric moment...aided by the mushrooms I'm sure, but electric nonetheless.  

    The next night we're down in front for Avett Bros. and a young lady is trying to exit the crush, walks up to my buddy who tries to make way for her to pass in the mass of people...yet she locks eyes on him and gives him a major-league hug and a big fat wet one on the cheek.  My buddy remarked it was the greatest hug he had ever received in his 59 years....better than anything his mother, wife, or kids ever laid on him.

    Time and place setting is a major factor in appropriateness of unsolicited physical contact...as is personality.  Some people are touchy-feely and others aren't....there's a spectrum.  

    I'd like to think there's a happy medium between written consent contracts for any/all human contact and unwelcome aggressive invasions of personal spaces.


    Ooh. Female sexual assailants (none / 0) (#146)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 12:16:05 PM EST
    Wild horses could not drag me to a repeat Ratdog concert.  But, no, I' don't recall anyone hugging me at the Long Island concert.

    Hardly lol... (none / 0) (#147)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 12:43:05 PM EST
    Strangers loving strangers in a loving environment...that is all. And affection inducing drugs more than likely;)

    The time another friend got his junk squeezed by a very amorous drunken woman at an Umphreys McGeee concert, that was probably sexual assault. Yet he still swapped numbers with the perp!

    Ya dodged a hippie love bullet in Westbury;)


    I got my quotient of unsolicited touching (none / 0) (#148)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 01:20:09 PM EST
    when we decided to join the crowd to walk around a Sufi shrine.  Unbelievable.  Not accidental. Bad decision on our part.

    Was that in India? (none / 0) (#152)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 02:02:32 PM EST
    A chauvinistic patriarchal society with densely populated urban areas is a bad recipe for the ladies.  See "ladies only" subway cars in Japan.

    I wouldn't be the least bit surprised, if it was. (none / 0) (#153)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 02:41:38 PM EST
    I think my aversion to being touched by anyone except close friends and family, stems from being in India for 2 years (age 16-18).
    I cannot count the number of times I was groped, bumped into deliberately, and flashed, when out in public.
    It was a real shock to the system (not to mention the feeling of powerlessness, fear, humiliation, frustration, etc.,) after years of living in the middle-east and having never encountered any of the above.

    I was woefully unprepared to deal with these incidents. I still remember the feeling of awe I had when one of my friends and I were walking down the street and a guy deliberately bumped into us and managed to grope both of us, she screamed at him at the top of her lungs and he took of running. My days of stewing in silent, impotent fury slowly came to an end after that incident.


    yes - powerlessness (none / 0) (#158)
    by linea on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 09:41:08 PM EST
    being in India for 2 years (age 16-18).

    did you graduate secondary school [high school] in india? was it a private english/american foreign student school? what was that like? may i ask?


    Yes. An unforgettable experience. (none / 0) (#154)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 02:17:11 PM EST

    Yes, human sexuality is an interesting topic, (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 12:54:12 PM EST
    but a man thinking he doesn't need to ask a woman's permission to kiss or otherwise assert himself isn't about human sexuality, it's about power.  "Aggressive in the bedroom" doesn't convey an element of sexuality, it conveys an interest in maintaining power.

    I guess you missed that whole thing where women gained the right to say no, and men had to be held accountable for proceeding anyway.  Even if she consented to kissing, and even if she was dressed like a slut and even if she was drunk out of her mind and even if she didn't resist and even if she changed her mind.  

    Those of us who live in the 21st century, and not in your fantasy world where women just live to have their clothes ripped off their bodies and are okay with vaginal tearing, understand that having the mentality that men should not have to ask permission before making a move is something that can lead to...rape.  

    Or, perhaps you prefer to think of that as just giving women what they really want: a beast who won't let some little woman who isn't smart enough to know she should stop suppressing her "wiring" and just relax and enjoy herself get in the way of his needs.


    Anne, you post is perfect example (1.00 / 1) (#124)
    by McBain on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 01:19:20 PM EST
    of why Title IX needs reworking.  

    Let's not equate kissing with ripping off clothes and causing trauma to certain body parts. While all of that could be a part of healthy relationship, they are quite different.

    "Aggressive in the bedroom" doesn't convey an element of sexuality, it conveys an interest in maintaining power.

    Power, dominance is part of human sexuality.  



    I understand that some people seem (5.00 / 4) (#132)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 05:27:49 PM EST
    to prefer a dominant role, while others prefer a submissive one, but your argument that somehow men are wired for dominance doesn't explain that some men prefer a submissive role and some women prefer a dominant one.

    I get that sexuality is a spectrum.  I also understand that whatever people's preferences are, they are best exercised with consenting partners.

    And apparently, the law agrees.

    The DOJ defines sexual assault as:

    ...any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient. Falling under the definition of sexual assault are sexual activities as forced sexual intercourse, forcible sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling, and attempted rape.

    FindLaw says:

    Specific laws vary by state, but sexual assault generally refers to any crime in which the offender subjects the victim to sexual touching that is unwanted and offensive. These crimes can range from sexual groping or assault/battery, to attempted rape.

    Whether one is "wired" for dominance or aggression, that does not make the resulting behaviors acceptable, which is why we have laws against them.  You may feel it is your right to act in accordance with your mind-reading of what women want, but you would be wrong: it isn't okay, and you don't have the right to impose your needs on a woman without her consent.

    To echo somewhat what Yman said, if you don't think you need permission to kiss someone, what do you need permission to do?  And why should kissing be exempt?  I guess you've never had someone jam their tongue down your throat while grabbing your body parts, have you?  

    I do not oppose a mechanism for those accused of sexual assaults to be able to defend themselves, especially if the consequences have the potential to ruin or end someone's college or future careers.  But victims of sexual assault need protection, and potential students need to know how educational institutions respond to reports, and how prevalent sexual assaults are.

    All people deserve the respect of being asked before their bodies and personal spaces are invaded; your insistence that your caveman genes aren't getting enough respect is pretty disturbing, and I just hope you don't have children who are absorbing that message as normal.


    You speak for a minority (none / 0) (#135)
    by McBain on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 05:52:11 PM EST
    which is fine but it isn't going to suddenly get men to ask permission before they kiss someone.  It isn't going to make women suddenly expect that.  Preach to your choir if it makes you happy.

    We're always going to have awkward moments when someone makes a pass that was unexpected or unwanted.  Unless it invloves other extreme circumstances, it's not a crime and not something that should be counted as sexual assault for a study that influences a president.


    I've stayed out of this (none / 0) (#136)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:03:00 PM EST
    But I have to submit that a "pass" is light years away from an uninvited and unwanted kiss.  I'm a little flabbergasted that you seem to see them as the same.

    I think the problem is you have seen to many Hollywood movies.  And brother, when you hear that from me....

    Here's what I think.  If you have a smidge of empathy you might very well not have to verbally "ask" permission.  Any more than the receiver would say "do it".  Sort of guts the moment.  

    I approach this from a different point of view.  Sans gender. But "permission" verbal or otherwise is just as important.  Maybe more important since you just might your kisser rearranged.


    I think we agree here Howdy (none / 0) (#137)
    by McBain on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:15:16 PM EST
    Verbally asking for permission can ruin the moment. It's often better to trust your instincts.

    Just about everything in Hollywood is unrealistic.  The famous window breaking scene in "Body Heat" comes to mind.  Who does that?  I could go into more detail about how other typical scenes are ridiculous but it would get too graphic.    


    We do not agree (none / 0) (#139)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:17:49 PM EST
    Oh (none / 0) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:17:14 PM EST
    And any stranger who hugs me will not hug the next person unexpectedly.  I guarantee it.



    Reminds me of the time the guy grabbed (none / 0) (#140)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:21:44 PM EST
    my junk at Mardi Gras. He got a little rearranged...

    My very point (none / 0) (#141)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:31:50 PM EST
    Gay men grow up with this.  I don't ever remember "asking".  But you learn to be sure.  I never got punched.  

    Well (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:32:33 PM EST
    Most gay men.  At least the smart sober ones.

    NO was a different world then, (none / 0) (#143)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:43:21 PM EST
    not sure about now. Mostly hammered tourists who all but disappeared by 10-11pm. About the time the black leather, chains, and exposed body hair crowd took to the streets...

    the world (none / 0) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:48:09 PM EST
    was a different world

    You really don't (none / 0) (#151)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 01:48:31 PM EST
    know if the woman does not want you to kiss her?

    You just blunder ahead and kiss her even though she pulls away?

    Lordy, this explains the Trump phenomenon.   Just kiss 'em, huh?  No big deal?  Men should be allowed to assert themselves without consequence....

    This explains a lot.


    Stop, just stop. (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 11:27:05 AM EST
    "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

    Your life experience sounds like an episode of Leave it to Beaver or Father Knows Best.


    Sounds more like (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Zorba on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 04:06:16 PM EST
    he's channeling Sharia Law 101.  Women must be kept totally subservient to whatever men want.

    More like the (none / 0) (#150)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 01:44:27 PM EST
    guy in high school who bragged about his "conquests."

    "What most women want" (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 04:42:55 PM EST
    Heh.  You don't speak for "most women".  Your opinion of what women want is not "reality" - it's your baseless opinion.  It's about as far from reality as you can get.  

    Just curious - if your "logic" is that unwanted kissing is not a form of sexual assault because: 1) women want men to "take charge" and "take risks" 2) most women want the man to be the sexual aggressor, and  3) it's not easy reading someone's mind, why stop there?  Why doesn't this logic apply to other forms of unwanted sexual touching (i.e. groping, fondling etc.)?  Do you have a daughter named Ivanka?


    McBain, you know (none / 0) (#149)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 01:43:29 PM EST
    what "most" women want in the bedroom?

    No, you don't,   You have done a scientific survey?    I wonder if you even know what the women you have slept with want.   Have you been with hundreds and thus know?

    Your stereotyping reminds me what the gay community often said:  That gay rights and equality would free heteros from trying to conform to certain confining norms and allow people to just be who they really are.

    This comment screams Republican in loud caps. No, actually, Trump lover....Just kiss 'em no matter what.


    My opinion comes mostly from (none / 0) (#156)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 02:42:18 PM EST
    personal experience but I have read books and articles.  I recently read an interesting book on a related but different topic titled   Dollars and Sex about the economics of relationships. Based on the immature responses to my comments on title IX, I doubt many in here would be able to handle it. Too much honesty about money, gender and race.

    "Immature" (none / 0) (#157)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:07:26 PM EST

    No, oy vey.


    I repeat. (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 08:59:47 AM EST
    Are you effing serious??? How old are you, twelve? That seriously sounds like something an adolescent would say or believe.

    This is a typical (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 09:07:26 AM EST
    world view of conservatives. Men are to make the decisions and women are supposed to go along with it but not only go along but appreciate it. They believe that women should not be able to make their own decisions. You must only hang out with conservative door mat women then if that has been your experience but it's no where representative of the "real world" or women in general. I love how people use "politically correct" to deflect from their odious behavior and beliefs.

    My father taught me there is a cure (none / 0) (#111)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 09:48:59 AM EST
    For this awkwardness, a swift kick in the balls.

    My mother (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 10:14:41 AM EST
    was the one that told me that :)

    And if they're a real phecker (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 10:21:02 AM EST
    (More artfully known as a bully and a boor), when they bend over knee them in the face. Right in the face. Just be careful you don't knee them in the upper teeth. No reason to wound yourself

    Ok. (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Sep 11, 2017 at 05:55:33 PM EST
    You got 3 good responses from women. Now here's one from a man. Are you effing serious??? I expect you to live a very lonely, celibate based on your presumptions of what women want.

    With an ice pack (none / 0) (#112)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 09:50:44 AM EST
    On his bits:)

    Why wouldn't it include it? (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 07:16:41 AM EST
    I do remember the letter including the famous "1 in 5" statistic that listed unwanted kissing as sexual assault.

    Do you really need someone to explain to you the concept of sexual assault?  Or are you one of those guys that think it's just "locker room" contact?


    Heh, if Trump does it, (none / 0) (#66)
    by MKS on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 10:16:05 AM EST
    it must be okay.  Have a tictac.

    Did you google for the letter (none / 0) (#68)
    by Towanda on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 11:18:24 AM EST

    Yes, I read the letter (none / 0) (#75)
    by McBain on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 07:36:53 PM EST
    and I don't see where you came to this conclusion...
    the Obama letter made quite clear the protections to be in place for all involved.

    Can you provide a quote or explain your opinion?

    Irma shifting (none / 0) (#17)
    by ragebot on Fri Sep 08, 2017 at 09:39:10 PM EST
    West which means Tallahassee may get more weather than was expected.  But the storm is still not past Cuba yet and there could be more course corrections.  Right now it looks like only TS winds for me and I am on San Luis Ridge, on one of the bigger hills in Tallahassee.  Not the fastest connection but here is a link to the Cuban state radar showing the eye wall replacement cycle seems to be completed.  With the storm around 700nms away I still have to wait till at least Monday for any real effects from Irma; except for the horrible traffic on the roads, long lines at gas stations and Walmart.  Not to mention the FSU gym is shut down till the storm is over so no more sitting in the hot tub there and watching coeds in bikinis.  

    leaves are really beginning to fall here (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 12:38:42 PM EST
    much earlier than i expected.

    lots of leaves.

    its really quite hypnotic.

    Hypnotic? :) (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 05:57:27 PM EST
    I'll be getting hypnotic tonight or I won't sleep a wink. Armando and family not in danger, Molly Bloom seems stable, it hasn't got to ruffian much yet, but I'm terrified about fishcamp's location.

    worrying wont help (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 06:25:52 PM EST
    i have been unable to watch much of the "storm coverage" thats been going on non stop for days already but i just had MSNBC on for a quick check and they had yet another caller on the phone who had decided to stay they were brow beating and humiliating for that decision.

    the guy was trying to politely tell them he had a house built to survive they had plenty of food and water and they would be fine and they just would not shut up woth their wheedling and mewling.

    i really wish some one would just tell them to f off and hang up.

    we are all grownups.  i believe all those folks are plenty smart enough to make their own decisions.


    It's so hard to reconcile the predictions (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 09:38:48 PM EST
    of doom when there is nothing bad happening at the moment. It seems impossible to imagine until I remember the pictures from Houston. This does not seem like any one place will be hit that hard - it will be more scattered.

    People have to make their own decisions -as they do every day. I have to turn the TV off from time to time, they are all driving me nuts - the reporters, and the people convinced prayer is going to save them. I'm too much on edge!

    Reporter just now: "People left their boats?"  Well of course they did, wtf!


    I'm sure most people will be fine. (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 06:22:13 AM EST
    My cousin and his wife live in Tampa, and they're staying put. They're inland and not in an evacuation or flood zone. Their house is well built and the roof has hurricane clips. They're not the kind who take uncalculated risks. I trust that both they and you will use common sense, and hang tough through the worst of it. Suffice to say that all Floridians are in our thoughts this morning. I look forward to hearing from you post-Irma.

    Take care. Stay safe and dry.


    Planes heading to Marathon Key. (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 04:01:17 PM EST
    Miami Herald says widespread devastation in the Keys.

    Leaves are falling a bit here also tonight (none / 0) (#55)
    by CoralGables on Sat Sep 09, 2017 at 09:15:29 PM EST
    But guessing for a completely different reason.

    Lord Lord (none / 0) (#69)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 03:05:28 PM EST
    Could Chris Hayes look more out of place and uncertain? Why is he there? Obviously not his thing.

    I don't kniw who at MSNBC is in Naples but in the dueling banjos of out doing each other hr had grabbed a huge palm frond to show us what was blowing off the tree. He was standing in the wind, and he looked like he was about to take off on that thing like a witch.

    I think Kerry Sanders was in Naples for MSNBC (none / 0) (#71)
    by caseyOR on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 05:18:24 PM EST
    this afternoon.

    I, to, am wondering who thought it was a smart idea to send. Chris Hayes into a hurricane. He is completely out of his element. I keep waiting for breathless coverage of the effort to rescue him from storm surge or a flying palm frond or something.


    Ha! I caught that too. It was funny. (none / 0) (#72)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 06:45:50 PM EST
    I knew what he meant though. Those things are heavier than they look and I would not want one flying at me.

    The DEUCE (none / 0) (#82)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 10, 2017 at 09:16:10 PM EST
    the new HBO series that started tonight by the creators of The Wire set in NY Times Sq of the early 70s is excellent.  excellent.


    It's hard to outdo the mix of humanity and tragedy in the conclusion of A Tale Of Two Cities, but David Simon and George Pelecanos sure try--and they put Sydney Carton's trip to the guillotine in there to boot. Midway through the pilot of The Deuce, a prostitute and one of her regular clients watch the conclusion of MGM's A Tale Of Two Cities adaptation. Darlene, played by Dominique Fishback, is at the foot of the bed, transfixed by the film. "She loves him, right?" she asks Louis, who's sitting over in the corner in his undershirt. Her knees are drawn to her chin, and that's the most physical contact that will occur in the room. Louis just wants someone to watch a movie with. Darlene needs to ask for an extra $20, because a Dickensian historical epic lasts longer than her usual "date," and she doesn't want to risk angering her pimp, the volatile Larry Brown. Louis obliges--he's just happy for the company.