Thursday Open Thread

I wrapped up my three biggest (as in most serious with the most work) cases yesterday in court. My month long trial is officially off.

I have a bunch of personal errands to run, and have five nights of Senor de los Cielos to catch up on, and quite a few Peloton rides, all of which I have unable to do more than a week.

I hope to have that done by Saturday, and will be blogging as usual from then on.

Sometimes you just have to stop and smell the roses, and that's my plan for the next two days.

I got a text from Fishcamp saying restoration of cell phone service and internet is ongoing.

Thanks for putting up with the light blogging, and here's a new open thread, all topics welcome.

< iPhones and Face Recognition | Monday Open Thread >
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    NASA's Cassini spacecraft will plunge... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by desertswine on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 08:29:10 PM EST
    spectacularly into Saturn's atmosphere in order to protect possible life bearing moons Enceladus and Titan from contamination.  Friday morning they will be streaming "live" shots.

    There are 2 kinds of people (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 01:22:22 PM EST
    In the world (at least)

    Ones who think the most important thing happening in 2018 is the midterm elections.

    And those who think it's the James Webb telescope coming on line.


    Must have... (none / 0) (#67)
    by desertswine on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 08:38:08 PM EST
    the James Webb telescope...

    Here's some beautiful Cassini images of Saturn and its moons via Vox.


    I didn't know CAssini was still out there (none / 0) (#39)
    by McBain on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 11:25:19 AM EST
    ....very cool it lasted that long.

    I heard from fishcamp (5.00 / 8) (#26)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 08:40:11 AM EST
    this morning.  I had called him days ago and left a message, knowing it would be a long time before he called back.  He was out in his car charging his cell phone and was calling back people who had left messages.

    He is fine.  Obviously, they have cell service, but still no electricity.  His generator died a couple days ago, so he lost the food in his freezer and fridge, but he had enough food to keep going.  The road opened up to go north (but not south yet) so his landlady was able to drive up to Islamorada to get more food.

    They had some flooding in the house, but the landlady has a super-sized water vacuum, so they got the water up (this was before the generator died).  It didn't get high enough to damage the sheet rock, fortunately.

    He seems hale and hearty.  He seems mostly annoyed, after losing the generator, at not having fresh-brewed coffee.
    He says to tell everyone he is fine, and he will write all about it but it may be awhile before they get electricity and he finishes cleaning up.

    Thanks for the update (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 09:37:16 AM EST
    on fishcamp. Coffee is the nectar of the gods, so I understand his annoyance.

    Thanks for the detail (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 10:39:30 AM EST
    really helps you to know what is going on.

    There's nothing quite like hearing someone's (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 10:50:27 AM EST
    voice after an event like this to provide reassurance; thanks for passing this along!

    Everyone involved and on-site has to just be exhausted - so much to do, so little salvaged, plus dealing with the trauma of riding out something of that magnitude has to take its toll, too.

    I hope it won't be long before we're getting the play-by-play as only fishcamp will be able to deliver, in his usual riveting, fishcamp way.


    Thank you, Zorba, for (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by caseyOR on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 12:25:11 PM EST
    sharing the good news about fishcamp. I am glad to hear he is okay and the damage is manageable.

    His coffee situation, though, that's bad, very bad. I hope fish can hang on until real coffee is once again possible. In his situation I would be pretty darn cranky about the lack of decent coffee, too.


    I got a text a few hours (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 05:35:34 PM EST
    from Fishcamp saying he got a second generator and they are in pretty bad shape but surviving. He said conditions are terrible.

    Here's a news article yesterday with some pretty awful news about the conditions in Isla Morada where he is.


    J, yes it's not great there (none / 0) (#63)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 07:57:11 PM EST
    But I talked to fishcamp for quite awhile this morning, and he did seem to be in good spirits, considering all the damage.
    People have helped get the downed trees off the roads and seem to be helping each other.  They have food and water.
    It's not easy but I think he will be fine.
    And at least he's not in Key West.

    Key West wasn't as devastated though. (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 08:32:46 PM EST
    Don't know (none / 0) (#78)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 03:30:03 PM EST
    the comparisons, but reporting from friends is that Key West is in bad shape....unlike, say, Hurricane Wilma, where the damage was from rising water, Hurricane Irma took its toll as a windstorm.  Severely damaged homes, power erratic (very hot and uncomfortable without AC), and running water only periodically.  Plantings and foliage took a big hit. The island is not readily for visitors, although the hospitality industry is anxious for a return to normalcy.

    Also sewage and contaminated water (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 03:41:41 PM EST
    Since a pumping station was severely damaged. It must be horrible not to be able to get to your home or business. Hope they are keeping looters out too.

    Power outage... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 09:52:05 AM EST
    ain't keeping me from my coffee...ya just start a fire and do it the old fashioned way.  Unless he ran out of coffee beans, in which case EVERYBODY PANIC!!!

    Camp stove to heat up the water, (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by vml68 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 10:42:18 AM EST
    French Press to brew.

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 11:17:18 AM EST
    Or a Melitta drip cone.  Although I think French press is better.  Makes for a richer brew.  We have both.
    The only problem is if you only have whole beans, and don't have electricity for the grinder.  We do have a hand-crank coffee bean grinder, but not everybody does.  (What can I say?  The End Times may come, but we will have our decent coffee!)
    Fishcamp is reduced to drinking instant coffee, and he is not a happy fishcamper about that.
    At least he still has his sense of humor, though.

    When I first came to this country I was totally (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by vml68 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 11:58:57 AM EST
    intimidated by the electric coffee makers. I had only seen them on TV and had no clue how to use them. So, I stuck to my french press and Bialetti Moka maker.
    After being here a while, I bought an electric coffee maker but I barely used it because I could never get the coffee to taste right. It ended up being kitchen counter decoration.
    Now, I am more of a tea drinker, so the few times I drink coffee, I stick to my french press.

    And, of course, whole beans! What kind of heathen buys anything else ;-)!!


    And what kind (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 02:33:04 PM EST
    of heathen makes tea out of tea bags, as well?
    Loose leaf only!

    my tactical error (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 03:42:46 PM EST
    was to forget to grind the beans before the power went out!  I had enough hot water in the tank to make due, but no ground coffee.I just had to go a mile to get some, so not exactly a catastrophe but next time I will remember that as part of my prep!

    My power came back on about 4pm yesterday. Just had a roofer patch the worst part in case it rains before the insurance adjuster makes it out here.  Now I guess I get to play that game - the hurricane damage deductible is higher than the normal wind damage deductible, so they are probably going to want to 'total it out' and fix it under that deductible.

    Curse you Irma!!!!


    Among factors (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 01:26:38 PM EST
    resulting in our leaving Key West was the changes in insurance eligibility and coverage, resulting in unacceptable risk.  After Hurricane Andrew,in 1992, many of the big carriers such as State Farm, Chubb and Allstate reduced/eliminated their market presence. And, after Andrew, 22 insurers failed, leaving a million policy holders without coverage.

    The vacuum was filled by the state's Citizens Property Insurance--a non-profit of last resort.  The Republican Governor, Rick Scott, after assuming office in 2010, spearheaded the offering of new insurers into the market--private, little known insurers that have back-up of the Florida Hurricane Catastrophic Fund (since no major hurricanes in the past 12 years) is at $17 billion.  A sum that may still not be enough.

    One small insurance firm, Heritage (founded in 2012), was offered $52 million to take over 60,000 accounts (Heritage made $100,000 donation to Gov. Scott's re-election).

      Whether policy holders can be made whole depends on re-insurance, insurance that the Florida insurers take out. Re-insurance allows insurance companies to transfer some of their exposure to other more well-capitalized firms.  This increases capacity, but reduces profits.

    In 2011, Citizens let private insurers buy its most profitable policies to reduce the role of the state's Citizens Insurance.  Now Citizens only takes customers too risky for private companies to insure (and has taxing power of the state).

    As of Jan 1, 2017, maximum coverage limit is $700,000; the exception being the Counties of Miami/Dade and Monroe (Florida Keys).   The maximum means the dwelling value.  Those residences/condos over the maximum are not eligible for Citizens coverage and insurers are of the ilk of Lloyds of London for Monroe, or owners self-insure.  A risk not many can handle.

     The av. rate for $300,000 coverage (built pre-1992) is about $11,500, and higher near the coast. Lloyds rates are stratospheric. And, with a substantial deductible.

    Hillary Clinton (5.00 / 7) (#51)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 02:55:19 PM EST
    gave a eulogy for human rights pioneer, Edith Windsor, at Temple Emanu-El, in Manhattan.  In honoring the 88-year old activist (US v Windsor, 2016), Mrs. Clinton said "she helped change hearts and minds, including mine, and we are forever grateful to her for that."

    FACEBOOK (5.00 / 7) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 05:55:50 PM EST
    I really hope they get nailed for their weaseling.

    I hate Facebook.  I really hate Facebook.  I used to just find it annoying but I have come to believe it's evil.  I really believe it's one of the worst things to happen to society and the body politic it a generation.  

    And the damage it can continue to do is only beginning to be understood.

    I hate Facebook and I'm damn sick and tired of people acting like there is something wrong with me because of it.

    I hope they get nailed and forced to police the incredibly damaging krap the dump on the public.

    There are thousands who get pretty much all their news from Facebook.  That makes them rich and it comes with responsibility

    I here ya, Howdy. I have always (5.00 / 4) (#70)
    by caseyOR on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 09:10:33 PM EST
    hated Facebook. I am not on Facebook, do not visit Facebook, have asked my friends to keep me out of photos they post to Facebook.

    And, Facebook (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 03:56:26 PM EST
    was paid in Rubles.  You would think that might be a tip off of something awry.

    Speaking of scumbags (none / 0) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 05:58:40 PM EST
    I don't know much of anything about... (none / 0) (#91)
    by desertswine on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 09:01:30 PM EST
    Facebook.  I didn't know that people got news off of it before the election.  I thought that it was just for pictures of your boyfriend or children and other chit-chat.  Catching up with your old highschool girlfriends and that kind of thing.

    That's how it started (none / 0) (#148)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 09:54:19 AM EST
    I just heard "at least" 50% of American voters get their news from FB.  

    Let that sink in.

    For a pittance Russin got direct access to the bloodline of American democracy.  

    I also just heard Russia has been more open about their efforts on FB than Facebook has.

    Not acceptable.  IMO this means controls are needed that many here will quote the likes of Snowden to clutch pearls about.

    We have some difficult decisions ahead.

    FB is no longer a platform for self absorbed yuppies who think I not only care what they had for lunch but I NEED TO SEE IT.

    This is now an issue of National Security.


    Just because you see something on (none / 0) (#153)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 11:09:53 AM EST
    FB doesn't make it true or real, and those who just assume it is probably do the same thing with stuff they see on the TV or, well, they probably don't read newspapers, so I won't go there.

    The part I like about FB is staying in closer touch with people I might otherwise not, as well as seeing pictures of my grandkids and other family stuff.  There are now community groups that are quite helpful, it's easier to support some local people in their business endeavors, which is good.  The day-to-day things people post are not all that different from the conversation that happens here at TL.

    On FB, if I like something, all my friends can see that I liked it - and FB now knows, too.  If one of my friends shares something from someone I'm not friends with, I can comment on it and now I'm connected to a whole new network of people.

    It's designed to expand like this, and that's why it is so susceptible to a Russia-type involvement.

    I also hate when people post other people's news before they get a chance to personally tell their families and friends - like a death in the family or an engagement or pregnancy.  

    I'm not one of those people who has 1,000 friends, either.  I won't accept friend requests from people I don't know fairly well, but there are people on FB who will accept anyone's friend request.  

    What I also don't like about FB are all the built-in algorithms, that pick up on what you're looking at online, what you're buying, what you're "liking," and not just posting ads, but posting from "sites you might like," or "stories you might be interested in."  

    But this is how FB makes money, because it costs nothing to be on it.  

    Considering the billions of people that can be reached by advertisers and others via social media, it's no wonder there's so much junk on it.  We'd be seeing it on TV if it weren't so much more expensive, and if so many people didn't pretty much live on their social media.

    Don't hate me because I'm on FB, please!


    I don't hate you, not for being on FB (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by caseyOR on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 12:11:28 PM EST
    or any other reason. Many of my friends are on FB because of the grandkids. Just cannot get enough of those adorable pics.

    dont (5.00 / 3) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 12:24:02 PM EST
    most of my friends are.  i hate Facebook.  i always suspected it was ultimately up to no good.

    i totally understand the social linking.  that is the hook.  it hooked me for a long time.

    but i have to admit, how many pictures of those grandchildren, or children, or dogs, or cats, or pigs, or hamsters are we expected to...

    dont mind me.

    and get off my lawn.


    LOL. (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 12:34:36 PM EST
    Yeah. Get off my lawn.

    I've never been on Facebook. Ever. But then, I'm somewhat antisocial so I don't care about keeping up with people. And I damn sure don't need to tell everyone what I bought from Amazon this week. No twitter. No instagram. nada.

    Used to be on LinkedIn because it was professional. But then I got tired of them trying to force connections. And then there was the deal they signed with USDOJ. That was the final straw. I shut that down as well.

    My number one career goal is to no longer have a career, the professional part of LinkedIn is of no real value to me.


    Get off of my lawn...ha (5.00 / 3) (#168)
    by fishcamp on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 05:09:42 PM EST
    You can't get on my lawn for the debris.  The guy next door rents his big house to families, so he has all kinds of water toys and they are all on my lawn, along with his porch screens, railings, tables, chairs and other unidentifiable stuff.  

    Drove up to the dentist office today for this stupid broken molar.  He wants $3,600 to fix one tooth.  It's a two or three stage fix and I can get it done in Costa Rica way cheaper including the air fare.  I may do this since it's so unbelievably bad down here.  Saw several signs along the highway saying, you loot, we shoot.  

    They still won't let my Cuban cleaning lady come down from Homestead.  The dental assistant today is from Homestead and has no problem.  She's not Cuban.  The plan is for Mayra to write my name, address, and phone number down to show the officer.  Also have my number dialed and ready so I can speak to him.  This racial profiling is really getting to me.


    hard times (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 05:31:56 PM EST
    im thinkin about you.  

    Me to a T! We have a lot more in common than (none / 0) (#172)
    by vml68 on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 06:02:00 PM EST
    I've never been on Facebook. Ever. But then, I'm somewhat antisocial so I don't care about keeping up with people. And I damn sure don't need to tell everyone what I bought from Amazon this week. No twitter. No instagram. nada.

    just the rage :-)!


    this (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 12:27:39 PM EST
    Just because you see something on (none / 0) (#153)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 11:09:53 AM EST
    FB doesn't make it true or real


    needs to be made clear BY Facebook.  often.  and clearly.


    Facebook has really changed the landscape (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 19, 2017 at 08:42:54 AM EST
    I have members of my family I will likely never speak to again because of the racist things they posted on Facebook. If they ever feel like a relationship with me is important they can contact me some old fashioned way and we'll talk about it.

    I thought it through too. It wasn't a hasty decision. Facebook awakened sides of people though that I couldn't believe, and then inspired them to double and triple down.

    I decided that my silence was a form of complicity, and my continued friended was also a form of complicity.

    I took some NLP classes 20 yrs ago. Even then they had started behaviorally data mining all of us. Since then they have perfected the science in order to sell us things. Now we are really being sold garbage.


    It really is telling (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by CST on Tue Sep 19, 2017 at 09:09:01 AM EST
    About some people.  I'm grateful that for me it's not my family - but I certainly learned a lot about some of my "acquaintances" the past year.  I think the most disturbing part of it all is the rage.

    If it were people I was close to I probably would've done the same as you, for me though I keep them around just to keep an eye on them, and try to figure out what the hell is going on.

    And note to self who I should never mention anything about my family to.


    I have to say that I have been (5.00 / 2) (#181)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 19, 2017 at 09:12:09 AM EST
    unpleasantly surprised by some of the views expressed by people I thought I knew, and it really has changed the way I see them.  

    I remember my husband telling me that one of his FB friends, someone he'd known since he was a teenager, had come out in support of Trump, and he just couldn't make sense of it - said he really had to question who this guy really was and he just didn't feel the same sense of connection.

    My family is well aware of my flaming liberal-ness, so none of the political stuff I post comes as any surprise to them.  It helps that I am not alone in my views, though it sometimes makes in-person family gatherings lively with the more conservative members!


    so (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 19, 2017 at 10:06:43 AM EST
    being the laughably optimistic person i am, maybe some good will come from this.  in the way we see others.

    i have similar experiences.  several people i called "friends" i will never ever see the same way.

    even if they call me and talk about it, Tracy.  i will remember Maya, 'when someone shows you who they are, believe them.  the FIRST time.'

    its a painful thing to think if the ever predicted civil war ever came i would be on the opposite side of many people who were closest to me.

    i had a new u derstanding of the "other" civil war.


    I used to be able to not fully (none / 0) (#184)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 19, 2017 at 12:24:16 PM EST
    Know how racist some of my cousins are. Can't unknow that now. One of my cousins is at least 1/4 Latino though and SHE was putting up speak English and no wet backs stuff. I don't even know what to say to that.

    I grew up with several Latino family members. Not unusual in Colorado if your family settled there when it was still being settled. And I had never really thought about it. It took me a minute to say to myself, "Hey, wait a damn minute here!"

    Some of my cousins argue with me that our Great Grandfather wasn't Native American, even though his daughter (my grandmother) whispered many times to me about her discomfort over people knowing this. I could give zero shits, but I didn't have to grow up in the time that she did.

    I even pulled out his ancestory dot com birth certificate that says he was born in the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma. That's not what that means though Captain :)

    All my racist family members need a 23 and Me moment...bahahaha


    i wish i could rate this comment 10 (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 19, 2017 at 10:01:41 AM EST
    But Howdy - it isn't in their financial (none / 0) (#163)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 12:33:34 PM EST
    interest to do that!  

    Zuckerberg would likely just say that if FB is  going to be expected to fact check and weed out the bots and scammers, fine, but it will now cost X dollars a month for that premium service...


    I can't imagine using Facebook for actual news (none / 0) (#185)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 20, 2017 at 09:44:47 AM EST
    It is really scary that people do that. I now ignore pretty much anything that is not personal updates from friends. And I have gotten pretty bored with that, so I rarely go seeking that information. If it pops up in the first few items in my feed I will ready it, but if not I don't. So people get exasperated with me thinking I must have seen something.

    I post a lot of dog pictures :-) Who tires of an adorable golden retriever?

    And an occasional political rant, music video, or link to an article by someone like Charlie Pierce if it is particularly striking.

    I get my news from a much more reliable source - Twitter!!!


    Just got my copy of What Happened (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 03:57:47 PM EST
    Delayed due to Irma....

    I am well stocked with alcohol and kleenex..I'm diving in!

    My copy of What Happened (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by caseyOR on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 05:05:29 PM EST
    arrived today. Bourbon and kleenex close at hand.

    I am smiling when I listen to (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 06:35:14 PM EST
    Hillary narrating. She is tough.

    Is Trump certifiable, (5.00 / 4) (#108)
    by KeysDan on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 12:15:23 PM EST
    or on something?   This morning, perhaps while driving the porcelain bus, Trump retweeted a violent, misogynistic message from "Mike" who goes by the charming, Mike @Fuctupmind.  Trump, the so called President of the United States, retweets his amazing golf swing that hits Mrs. Clinton and knocks her down.  

    seriously (5.00 / 3) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 12:50:05 PM EST
    you can not make this stuff up.

    Is that a rhetorical question, Dan? (5.00 / 5) (#128)
    by caseyOR on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 06:31:02 PM EST
    If not, let me answer. Yes, Trump is certifiable and may well be on something.

    That he was elected president is a stain on our nation's soul that may never be erased.


    If it were anyone else, the Secret Service (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 12:28:16 PM EST
    would be knocking on his door and asking a few questions, in order to "assess" the "threat" to the former First Lady, who is a "protected person."

    This is fun (5.00 / 8) (#130)
    by fishcamp on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 07:12:45 PM EST
    reading old (new) posts and catching up on everything, while watching football.  The Emmy's yes.  This is like awakening from a long nightmare.  I'm stunned and flattered about how much you all care.  Thank you very much.

    DACA (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:02:09 PM EST
    believe me yet?

    Does Trump actually believe that (none / 0) (#4)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:26:53 PM EST
    Republicans are going to go along with supporting this so-called deal he made with Schumer and Pelosi?

    I don't see that happening. I think Trump's trying to get Dem support for tax reform, thinking he can leverage this so-called deal to get it, hoping GOP can somehow get it passed, and has no intention of working to keep the Dreamers here.

    Chuck and Nancy may believe they have Trump's number, but I would caution them not to go all in on that.  Still room for getting played, I think.

    Best comment I heard all day was some rabid anti-immigration Republican saying he had picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue (I think that's am Airplane quote).


    all possibly true (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:30:27 PM EST
    let me repeat

    the DACA people will not be deported.  they will win this in the end.

    this was never going to happen.  i have no idea how it will be climbed down from but it will.  republicans dont want this any more than democrats.  this is an 80-20 issue.  Coulter, Levine and Limbaugh squealing wont make a figs worth of difference.

    this was never going to happen.


    I hope you're right that they won't (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:52:21 PM EST
    be deported, but the hell he is putting these people through is just too painful to think about for too long.

    Trump is truly the poster child for amorality or sociopathy.  Or both.


    do i have this wrong? (none / 0) (#16)
    by linea on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 08:18:45 PM EST
    I hope you're right that they won't (#12)
    by Anne
    be deported

    my understanding of DACA is that it is a deferment with the final allowed petition when you are 28 years old. eventually, under this Obama deferment, they^ would have been asked to leave voluntarily or deported in their early 30s (though, in my opinion, the extra years to acquire education is still invaluable).

    ^ by 'they' i mean kids who grew up in america, had their formative years in america, and graduated from an american high school. americans, by any reasonable standard.


    If Trump is so high on the Dreamers - (none / 0) (#18)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 08:40:35 PM EST
    and his tweets certainly are expressing that - wouldn't it have been more humane and made more sense to leave the executive order in place and push the Congress to pass the Dream Act?

    Why put almost a million people living here under DACA in more or less immediate jeopardy if he actually supports them?


    To be clear (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 08:51:32 PM EST
    I do not think he supports them.  Or opposes them.  

    I believe you are over thinking it.

    He is entirely transactional.  He said he would "take care" of them during the campaign because he thought the current audience wanted to hear that.  He said he would deport them and their families, in the same campaign, for the same reason.

    He made this tweet/announcement to distract from other things.  He doesn't give a sh!t about them or the hell he puts them through.  They are pawns.  Just like the rest of us.

    My belief they will not be deported is based on how massively unpopular that would be entering an election year when republicans are already screwed.

    We are talking about currently serving active military.

    They will not be deported.


    Howdy, it's not that I think he actually (none / 0) (#20)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 09:00:32 PM EST
    supports them - I think his actions - rescinding the order and talking about how they "have to go," and within hours waffling on what would happen in 6 months, and now talking about them in glowing terms because he thinks he can leverage them with Dems and knock the GOP off its pins a little - actually demonstrate how little he cares about them as people, and how willing he is to use them to get something else he wants.

    Exactly (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 09:22:51 PM EST
    And right now it's not clear he is going to get much of anything except tweeting the republicans for their lack of loyalty.

    I don't think there is a grand plan.  I don't think he plans anything past the next news cycle.

    Your comment summed it up very well IMO.
    It's really as simple as that


    That said (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 09:25:50 PM EST
    I do think the benefits of "saving them", never mind he put them in jeopardy, are beginning to sink in.

    in fact (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:34:11 PM EST
    i think the right fringe freaking out while the rest of the country applauds may have allowed Donald to look around and realize, wow, everyone hates me because ive been listening to these people.

    he has no ideology.  he just wants wins.  if C & N can give him some he will absolutely take it.


    Listening to him talk about working (none / 0) (#14)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 07:46:20 PM EST
    with Dems to "protect" the Dreamers, and reading his tweets where he asks:
    Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.....They have been in our country for many years through no fault of their own - brought in by parents at young age.

    reminds me of the press conferences where the grieving boyfriend/husband pleads with the public to help find his missing girlfriend wife, and it turns out that he was the one who killed her.

    It's like he doesn't think we know that HE was the one who rescinded the order that would allow them to stay here.


    It's almost like (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 08:06:49 PM EST
    He literally does not remember what he says from one day to the next.  I wonder if he actually does.

    Its really sort of encouraging that the country has even been able to function, however poorly, under this leadership.  Our republic may be more resilient than we thought.


    I don't think he remembers (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 12:28:36 PM EST
    What he said yesterday, and I don't think he cares.
    A combination of a huge ego, narcissism, and some kind of dementia. At least, IMHO.  

    I don't know (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 10:07:54 AM EST
    Bannon's fighting back and from the looks of the tweets this morning a phone call or two has taken place.

    Trump is still in play on DACA I believe.


    Oh noooo (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 05:28:17 PM EST
    they are burning their hats

    They will buy more.


    I saw that (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 05:50:30 PM EST
    Do you think Steve Bannon is paying them? I do ;)

    I think Steve Bannon knows exactly how to pull the Trump chain. Smartest thing Trump could do is never take another call from him ever again. But Trump has always needed these heinous scumbag strokes whether it's Bannon, or Roger Stone, Mike Flynn.

    Just when some people thought he was finally pivoting or he was learning. I think Scarborough said Trump finally realized almost everybody hates his guts. I think that was true, and didn't we know he was going to have trouble holding the sane line when his rally chanters started getting angry?

    His rally attendance numbers started plummeting though. Had to try something different but the rest of us (anyone mildly sane) is never going to a Trump rally 10 months after his election.

    He's trying to fill the huge gaping wound that is his soul with trips to the hurricane ravaged. After all Obama and Christie got a hurricane bump.


    The Juggalos (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 09:31:49 PM EST
    drew a larger crowd today on the Mall than the pro-Doofus rally in DC.

    Starting to (none / 0) (#6)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:32:38 PM EST
    But still the Hell he is putting the Dreamers through in the meantime.....The best case scenario is he is using them as pawns.  Still just awful.

    I know, and oddly neither Trump or Republicans (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 10:11:49 AM EST
    Understand this. They didn't understand that the pain they were inflicting via healthcare was going to screw them and they don't understand that the suffering they are inflicting on dreamers is affecting a majority of us.

    i said that from day one (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:35:23 PM EST
    if you remember.  they would go thru hell.  that it sucked.  that it was awful and vile and they would not be deported.

    I just want to avert my eyes (none / 0) (#9)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:37:08 PM EST
    Let's hope you are right and this is all over soon.

    who can know the mind of the Trump (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:40:13 PM EST
    but i think its possible he thinks he will trade this for some wall fig leaf.

    and who knows.  maybe they will give him one.  but i doubt it.  you cant find an employed republican outside the entertainment industry and Steve King who will touch the wall OR deporting the DACA people.


    i just realized (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:43:47 PM EST
    how broad a description "the entertainment indusrty" was.  up to and including POTUS

    how many have frozen your credit? (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:11:36 PM EST
    i went to the site and it said "your information MAY have been involved" or something lke that.

    pretty sure that is the response for everyone since unfreezing it is not free even if they have forced the knobs at EQF to freeze it for free.

    this might be the revenge of bad credit.

    My credit is Frozen... (none / 0) (#24)
    by jmacWA on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 06:01:18 AM EST
    AND it said I might be involved.  Now I guess that means my credit records could have been compromised but since my credit is already frozen it should not harm me.

    Equifax just trying to make some money so they can pay the sure to be WAY TO SMALL fine that will be levied on them.

    Just my opinion


    What, me worry? (none / 0) (#28)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 09:48:25 AM EST
    If somebody wants to scam a bank on my digits, go for it...I ain't freezing sh&t, one of my main goals in life is to avoid dealing with these bastards at all.  

    Shady-arse Equifax sh*ts the bed big time and now we're supposed to suffer the hassles?  F&ck that and f*ck them.


    That's great (none / 0) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 10:55:13 AM EST
    until you are the one the police come after for committing bank fraud.

    Show me my signature... (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 11:09:27 AM EST
    and I'll be happy to pay that bill Officer...till then, I think you're looking for the guy who gave my social security number away...last I heard he insider traded his stock away and is living on a yacht down in the Caymans.

    Seriously (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 05:59:21 PM EST
    It's the revenge of those with a CR of 500 and below.

    Good luck getting a loan.  Pffft.


    Good job, Jeralyn. (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:21:43 PM EST

    PREACHER (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 05:14:21 PM EST
    the second season finale was monday.

    i absolutely love this series.  i doubt many here follow.  we are probably not the target audience.  but the finale was just great.  i urge interested to watch it.  cold.  i usually would not do that but in this case you will not learn anything that would spoil the fun of the rest but you will definitely see why i like it.  it was fast and furious.  poignant and hilarous.  i lost count of the times i laughed out loud.  example - Eugene escapes from hell (where he ended up by mistake) with the help of Adolph Hitler.  they are standing at the bus stop after being dropped off and Eugene says, "My dad is going to get a real kick out of meeting you.  he loves the History channel"


    It's no surprise that Preacher has the gritty, urban crime underpinnings of Breaking Bad. That show's former Emmy-winning EP Catlin is Preacher`s showrunner. But it's always a wonderful surprise that Evan Goldberg and Seth Rogen are hands on with this Vertigo comic adaptation, which originally struggled to be a feature film, only to be rightfully realized as a TV show. Rogen and Goldberg continue to prove in season 2 that their creative fruits are so much more than stoner and raunchy comedy films. Preacher is beautifully shot (tonight's opening scenes in the deep South echo Don Burgess' color and DP work on Forrest Gump), designed (the trio's shotgun New Orleans apartment doesn't ring any false bells in its messy, dirty details), and continues to balance its hip factor with hyper action and riveting, emotionally grounded, storylines without overdoing it in any one of those departments. Many have acknowledged that the show is a great Tarantino mimic and that's a justifiable comparison in regards to its style, but the series is strong enough to stand on its own with its Confederacy of Dunces strings and characters. Above all during its second season, Preacher has mastered one of the best cold opens on recent TV (HBO's Six Feet Under is the standard), with each set-up tightly wound, set off by a built-in spring before the harmonica-Gospel Preacher theme rocks in.

    It's Negga who continually steals the show, her Tulip is so much more than your run-of-the-mill La Femme Nikita or Foxy Brown. Sure, she's got that Grier yell down pat, but Negga exudes Tulip's pain through her eyes, her nuanced facial movements and the drop in her voice.

    soooo true about Negga.  she is the show.

    stand with her (none / 0) (#23)
    by linea on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 09:53:21 PM EST
    Elizabeth Warren Co-Sponsors Medicare For All Bill

    I'm co-sponsoring Medicare for All
    Health care is a basic human right -- and it's time to fight for it.

    The giant insurance companies will send our their army of lobbyists to fight our Medicare for All bill every step of the way. We need you with us.

    Buried (none / 0) (#25)
    by CST on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 07:54:06 AM EST
    Deep in the technology section of the NYTimes:

    "Google Sued by 3 Female Ex-Employees Who Say It Pays Women Less Than Men"

    "The suit cites the Labor Department's review of compensation data for all 21,000 employees at Google's Mountain View, Calif., headquarters for 2015, which found that the pay disparity between men and women was significant enough that there was "a one in 100 million chance" that it was occurring r by chance."

    It's a class-action suit.

    nothing to worry about, (none / 0) (#45)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 01:04:59 PM EST
    Just remember Google's motto, "Don't be evil."

    And, Google wouldn't lie.....would they?


    I think that ... (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 03:25:00 AM EST
    ... Google will just take the money and run:

    Buzzfeed.com | September 15, 2017
    Google Allowed Advertisers To Target People Searching Racist Phrases - "Google, the world's biggest advertising platform, allows advertisers to specifically target ads to people typing racist and bigoted terms into its search bar, BuzzFeed News has discovered. Not only that, Google will suggest additional racist and bigoted terms once you type some into its ad-buying tool. Type 'White people ruin,' as a potential advertising keyword into Google's ad platform, and Google will suggest you run ads next to searches including 'black people ruin neighborhoods.' Type 'Why do Jews ruin everything,' and Google will suggest you run ads next to searches including 'the evil jew' and 'jewish control of banks.'"

    Now playing: "The Voyage of the Damned."


    St. Louis braces for protests (none / 0) (#38)
    by McBain on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 11:22:32 AM EST
    after officer Jason Stockley found not guilty of first degree murder.  This was a bench trial.

    Here's a link to a dashcam video.
    The prosecution claimed Stockley planted a gun.

    Another murderer walks free. (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 12:08:18 PM EST
    Notice cops never want to go to a jury. It's always trial by judge. Cause judges just know cops never lie. Only us regular folks ever lie.

    Michael Slager chose a jury (none / 0) (#42)
    by McBain on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 12:20:29 PM EST
    for his criminal trial and was found not guilty. Same with Betty Shelby.  It's a big gamble to choose a bench trial but if the law is clearly on your side, it might be the best option.  

    That's not true. (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 03:44:48 AM EST
    McBain: "Michael Slager chose a jury for his criminal trial and was found not guilty."

    Michael Slager was not found "not guilty." In fact, it was a hung jury, with 11 of the 12 jurors apparently favoring conviction. South Carolina did not try him for murder again after he pleaded guilty in federal court in May 2017 to violating the late Walter Scott's civil rights by shooting him in the back, and was further compelled to stipulate to the facts as they had been presented in the State's case. Additionally, the City of North Charleston, Slager's employer, settled with Scott's family in October 2015 to the tune of $6.5 million.



    Thank you for the correction (none / 0) (#76)
    by McBain on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 10:21:20 AM EST
    but I don't believe there was only one juror who didn't want to convict.  That was a misconception from a note the foreman sent to the judge about one juror "having issues".  

    I read somewhere they were unanimous in voting not guilty for murder but split somewhere on manslaughter.  


    Here's an interview with the jury foreman (none / 0) (#77)
    by McBain on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 01:52:15 PM EST
    who corrects the myth that there was one hold out. He says there were 6 who were  undecided.  What's not clear is what they were undecided on.

    In my opinion Slager was overcharged.  They should have focused on a lesser charge. It will be interesting to learn what Slager's sentence will be for the civil right's violation.



    moot (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by linea on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 05:34:45 PM EST
    the myth that there was one hold out.

    Michael Slager admited to federal charges of violation of civil rights and the use of excessive force.


    To you maybe (none / 0) (#89)
    by McBain on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 07:48:33 PM EST
    To me it was another example of the media misrepresenting things to fit an agenda.

    It also shows that judges aren't the only ones who take verdicts seriously.  The implication in an earlier post was that cops don't want juries deciding their fate.  


    I swear, were this 1964 and we were discussing the tragic events in Neshoba County, MS, you'd likely be here defending the actions of Sheriff Lawrence Rainey and Deputy Sheriff Cecil Ray Price.

    Michael Slager shot Walter Scott in the back and in cold blood. He attempted to plant evidence at the scene of the crime, and he falsified his police report. His crime has been preserved in infamy on video.

    There's no excuse whatsoever for Slager to have done what he did. He's going to be residing in federal prison for an awfully long time, and the taxpayers of North Charleston are on the hook for millions of dollars because of him.

    End of discussion.


    He hasn't been sentenced yet (none / 0) (#94)
    by McBain on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 09:39:33 PM EST
    and he won't ever be convicted of murder for that event.  

    As for other cases, I often defend the actions of those falsely accused, overcharged and victimized by a rush to judgement.  Those things happen far too often.  


    Enough already with your white-wing spin. (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 09:54:41 PM EST
    Do you not understand that Slager admitted under oath in federal court that the State's contentions about the murder of Scott were correct? That's how he avoided his retrial for murder in state court. I'm through discussing this with you. You're wasting bandwidth with this race-based nonsense.

    jebus! (none / 0) (#97)
    by linea on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 10:08:45 PM EST
    he won't ever be convicted of murder

    that's a state charge.

    with all kindness, slager is a poor example for you to use as a poster-child for state prosecurial overcharging. in our two-part system of checks and balances of police misconduct; slager has admited guilt for civil rights violations and excessive use of force. there are better examples. don't double-down on this poor example. just my opinion.


    While "murder" is not (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by Peter G on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 11:18:24 PM EST
    the technical name of the crime, a guilty plea to a federal charge of willful violation of civil rights resulting in death, as in this case, exposes the defendant to "imprisonment for any term of years, or for life." In common parlance, I think this can fairly be described as a murder conviction. The sentence recommended by the United States Sentencing Guidelines will be life imprisonment, which in federal sentencing law is life without parole. While it is true that there is no mandatory minimum, probation is not a lawful option. So Slager is certainly going to federal prison, and I would predict for a long time; could be 30 years, if not life.

    Why would he plead guilty (none / 0) (#104)
    by McBain on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 11:27:11 AM EST
    If there's a good chance at life imprisonment? Doesn't make sense to me.  It only makes sense if he thinks he's going to get a lesser sentence than a murder conviction would bring.

    Same reason anyone pleads guilty (none / 0) (#152)
    by Peter G on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 10:57:31 AM EST
    to a serious charge (ideally). After private and confidential consultation with his lawyer, he concluded that the odds of a better outcome at trial, weighed against the likely consequences (a sentence of life without parole in a maximum security federal prison), made a guilty plea the better of two bad alternatives. A federal judge will give meaningful credit at sentencing to remorse and what the federal sentencing rules call "acceptance of responsibility." An unqualified guilty plea is step one to showing remorse and/or acceptance. Not enough credit to erase the aggravating factors (like the victim's death) but enough to change the Guidelines recommendation from "life" to a suggested range of "292-365 months," it looks like to me.

    I'm entitled to my opinion (none / 0) (#105)
    by McBain on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 11:33:36 AM EST
    I don't believe there was proof of murder.  I'll defend someone who's overcharged even if they're guilty of a lesser charge.  Like O.J. Simpson in the stolen memorabilia conviction.  I don't have to like them.  

    Being entitled to one's own opinion .... (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 03:07:44 PM EST
    McBain: "I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't believe there was proof of murder."

    ... doesn't necessarily mean that one is therefore right or correct about the subject in question. About 48 hours ago from the time of this writing, more or less, you had claimed that Michael Slager had been acquitted of murder, when that was quite obviously not the case.

    So, whatever you still "believe" Slager to have done or not done in the shooting death of Walter Scott has been rendered more or less irrelevant by your own earlier and clearly erroneous contention. Rather, you've since been grasping at various straws to justify your own stubborn and fact-resistant personal biases, aka "doubling down."

    Slager is guilty of murder, and even HE knows it. That's why he pleaded guilty in federal court to violating Scott's civil rights by killing him, and further stipulated in that court to the State's case rather than face retrial on the murder charge in state court. As Peter noted, he's going to prison for a long time, at least 30 years if not for life.

    Deal with it.


    I thanked you for correcting my mistake (none / 0) (#132)
    by McBain on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 09:52:30 PM EST
    about the hung jury.  I then corrected your mistake about there being only one juror holding out.  

    I still disagree about Slager being guilty of murder. If all you do is look at the shooting video once or twice, I can see how one would come to that conclusion.  But when you look at both videos and read about the physical evidence it's clear there was some kind of struggle involving Slager's taser shortly before he fired any shots.

    One of the questions the jury pondered had to do with time.  How much time does an officer need to realize what was once a potential deadly situation has become non deadly.  One second?  3 seconds?

    When Slager starts to reach for his firearm, Walter Scott is only about 3 feet away from him.  I believe pulling his weapon was the correct thing to do at this point.  When Slager fires his first shot Scott is 20-25 feet away and running the opposite direction.  I believe firing his weapon was the wrong thing to to at this point.

    Again, the question is how much time does it take to realize the situation has good from OK to shoot to not OK to shoot?  This time difference was less than 3 seconds.  Based on the short amount of time and the extreme pressure Slager was under, I don't see murder.  Neither did the jury foreman and several of jurors.


    Enough, already. (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 11:16:00 AM EST
    You're making yourself look foolish here, flailing about as you are in defense of an opinion for which there is really no justification other than bigotry. You were wrong. By his own admission, Slager is guilty. The case is over. Deal with it.

    Donald, those who wear a uniform and (none / 0) (#162)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 12:28:36 PM EST
    a badge, and who carry weapons that have the power to take lives, are supposed to be trained to know how to act and react.  If they don't have any better judgment than your average citizen, they shouldn't be working in law enforcement.  

    We have seen many instances of cops de-escalating situations so that no lives are lost, so we know it can be done.  We've seen them apprehend seriously violent and dangerous people - Dylan Roof comes to mind - without firing their weapons, so we know there are clear heads and smart cops out there.

    If the failures are the result of inadequate vetting, followed by inadequate training, there are solutions to that, but unfortunately, our current DOJ does not seem much interested in implementing or even caring about them.


    If I see an injustice I'm going to speak up (none / 0) (#166)
    by McBain on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 02:26:26 PM EST
    about it if I feel like it.  For some reason, you can't deal with that and have to make false accusations about bigotry. I don't care what race someone is.  If they got a raw deal, they got a raw deal.  

    I just finished another episode of The Confession Tapes on Netflix. In this one several black kids were convicted of a brutal rape/murder, mostly because the youngest and most vulnerable one was pressured into, what looks like, a false confession.  But people like you would say he confessed so he must have done it.  Or he was convicted, end of story.  I don't agree with that mentality.  


    I believe the person who got a raw deal would be (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by vml68 on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 05:52:43 PM EST
    I don't care what race someone is. If they got a raw deal, they got a raw deal.

    the one with three bullets lodged in his back. YMMV.


    McBain: "If I see an injustice I'm going to speak up about it if I feel like it. For some reason, you can't deal with that and have to make false accusations about bigotry."

    The injustice was suffered by Walter Scott, a black man who was shot in the back in cold blood by Michael Slager, a white police officer. With regards to your puff-up umbrage over being associated with bigotry, well, how should one characterize your stubborn defense of a man who engaged in what was by any standard a lynching?

    Slager's now behind bars, facing 30 years to life. If you adamantly refuse to believe that to be justice, fine. Have it your way.

    We'll just call it karma.


    No, it doesn't (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 02:23:26 PM EST
    But when you look at both videos and read about the physical evidence it's clear there was some kind of struggle involving Slager's taser shortly before he fired any shots

    I've looked at both.  There is no such physical evidence that makes it "clear", which is why you only allude to it.  Not only were the DNA results inconclusive, even IF you assume the DNA was Scott's it merely shows the taser came in contact with his body, not that Scott had taken or even attempted to take the teaser.

    But you already knew that, which is why you rephrased your old attack with vague, allusory language about a struggle "involving" the taser.


    Threat. Not a threat.

    End of story.


    checks and balances (none / 0) (#84)
    by linea on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 05:27:21 PM EST
    Michael Slager... pleaded guilty in federal court in May 2017 to violating the late Walter Scott's civil rights

    law enforcement is subject to a two-part, state and federal, process of checks and balances with police shootings. some people don't seem to understand how this process works in our country.

    but also - it is significant when a police officer is not convicted in state court and the department of justice finds no cause to file a charge for a federal civil rights violation. some people don't seem to understand that.


    Who? (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 11:59:50 AM EST
    checks and balances

    law enforcement is subject to a two-part, state and federal, process of checks and balances with police shootings. some people don't seem to understand how this process works in our country.

    but also - it is significant when a police officer is not convicted in state court and the department of justice finds no cause to file a charge for a federal civil rights violation. some people don't seem to understand that

    Who is it that you think doesn't understand these basics?  People here are actually far more educated than you appear to think.  If you think someones doesn't understand it, you should call them on it ... with evidence.  I suspect it's just one, more baseless accusation based only on your misinterpretation of their comments.


    Unfortunately, that can depend upon ... (none / 0) (#96)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 10:03:43 PM EST
    linea: "but also - it is significant when a police officer is not convicted in state court and the department of justice finds no cause to file a charge for a federal civil rights violation. some people don't seem to understand that."

    ... whether you have an honorable person like Loretta Lynch heading the U.S. Dept. of Justice, or a guy who once ran interference for the Ku Klux Klan in his capacity as U.S. Attorney for Alabama.



    Prosector must also agree to court trial. (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 01:45:30 PM EST
    Oops. In Missouri state court, (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 02:12:17 PM EST
    Defendant waives jury, court, in its dscretion, may grant the request.

    Miscarriage for sure (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 06:17:12 PM EST
    Dude had an AK-47, not an authorized police weapon, victim was unarmed.  Cop planted a gun on the victim, said on recording before the shooting that he was going to kill the guy.

    But he was scared, so no harm, no foul.


    According to the officers, decedent (none / 0) (#60)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 06:22:03 PM EST
    tried to strike defendant with his vehicle. And then fled n it resulting in a pursuit.

    the judge reviewed all the evidence (none / 0) (#61)
    by linea on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 07:23:32 PM EST
    The Court finds the State's contention that Stockley planted the handgun found in the Buick is not supported by the evidence.

    Judge Wilson also offered the ... (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 10:10:14 PM EST
    ... following baseless contention as justification for his finding in this case, which will hopefully forever define his professional reputation and leave his progeny to apologize for him into eternity:

    "Finally, the court observes, based on its nearly thirty years on the bench, that an urban heroin dealer not in possession of a firearm would be an anomaly."



    yes (none / 0) (#99)
    by linea on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 10:45:10 PM EST
    i cringed when i read that too. but i also haven't spent thirty years on the bench dealing with urban heroin dealers.

    just say it!
    if somebody wants to accuse Saint Louis Circuit Judge Timothy Wilson of being a racist, just say it!  don't equivocate. don't 'use ambiguous language so as to avoid committing oneself.' because i read the judge's ruling and i believe he was heartfelt and dedicated to the law. if someone here believes Judge Wilson is a racist or his ruling was racist, speak up or shut up!


    I don't it is racism. (5.00 / 4) (#103)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 09:07:26 AM EST
    But rather cop fellatio. Unquestioning support of cops no matter the evidence. It is common.

    I was simply noting a fact, linea. (none / 0) (#113)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 04:48:07 PM EST
    Whatever conclusion others may wish to draw from that particular fact is entirely up to them. In that regard, I would simply note that we all harbor latent personal biases in some form and to some degree, and Judge Wilson is no exception to that basic rule about human nature.

    The primary difference, I would offer, is that Jeralyn, Peter and other TLers who are attorneys would likely acknowledge their own latent biases if only to themselves, and would therefore take great pains to avoid expressing them so baldly in a legal opinion, as Judge Wilson did here.

    In referencing that quote from Judge Wilson's ruling, I thought I had made my opinion on this matter perfectly clear. I assumed wrong, I guess. So, I'll further expound.

    With the obvious exceptions being white nationalists, neo-Nazis and the KKK, most personal biases in this country tends to be of the latent variety, which unfortunately can sometimes lead us to embrace certain racial or ethnic stereotypes all too readily for our own good.

    Personally, I don't believe that Judge Wilson is an openly or intentionally racist individual, which is why I would never have said that so bluntly. I'll further concede the contention of his defenders, although admittedly without much if any examination on my part, that his 28-year-record on the Missouri bench likely speaks for itself.

    Nevertheless in this particular instance, Judge Wilson offered a truly sweeping, generalized and cringeworthy assertion about "urban" drug dealers that's far more suitable to a run-of-the-mill Hollywood TV or film script, than to a duly considered judicial ruling.

    Speaking for myself only, I'd offer that most people would logically assume that the judge's use of the term "urban" as an adjective was probably, albeit perhaps unconsciously, a euphemism for black or African-American. Such blatant stereotyping should really be unacceptable, even in Hollywood.

    While Wilson may indeed believe that his experience on the bench entitles him to assume that most "urban" drug dealers would be armed, that sort of personal assumption should never have been subsequently invoked by him as a legal basis for a murder acquittal, even in part -- especially when the deceased in this case was in fact unarmed, while the accused was wielding an unauthorized AK-47.



    not you (none / 0) (#127)
    by linea on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 06:14:05 PM EST
    my post was not directed at you and it was too strident too.

    it seems to me, one must be implying that the judge is a racist when one accuses him of "ugly ex post facto justifications that go into exonerating white men in uniform when there's evidence that they have assassinated black motorists." as the article that repack rider links to states.


    Because it was a bench trial (none / 0) (#62)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 07:26:37 PM EST
    i read that (none / 0) (#64)
    by linea on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 08:02:48 PM EST
    St. Louis Circuit Judge Timothy Wilson is well-respected and that he has ruled both for and against police during his 28 years on the bench.

    Where is the entire opinion? (none / 0) (#68)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 08:39:03 PM EST
    here (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by linea on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 08:54:08 PM EST
    the entire Findings and Verdict can be found here: npr.org
    i read it before posting on this topic

    Actor Harry Dean Stanton has passed away (none / 0) (#65)
    by McBain on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 08:19:56 PM EST
    He was in one of my favorite films, Alien.  He was also in a bunch of other stuff including Escape From New York and several David Lynch projects. He was 91.

    Repo Man (none / 0) (#71)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 10:50:43 PM EST
    ...was his greatest role.

    Yes indeed. And Paris, Texas. (none / 0) (#72)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 10:57:19 PM EST
    And don't forget his understated turn as ... (none / 0) (#75)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 04:32:03 AM EST
    ... Paul of Tarsus in Martin Scorsese's 1988 film "The Last Temptation of Christ," painting an unflattering portrait of that renowned New Testament proselytizer as an opportunistic huckster.

    Paris TX was a great movie (none / 0) (#101)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 01:16:15 AM EST
    very haunting

    He was also a decent country singer and guitarist (none / 0) (#80)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 03:45:19 PM EST
    I saw him open for John Prine once many years back. Seemed like a true original that did exactly what he wanted with his life. Glad it was long and varied, don't know if he was happy, but I hope so!

    After (none / 0) (#86)
    by FlJoe on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 06:15:38 PM EST
    a 3 quarter snooze fest, all hell breaks loose in the Swamp, with the Gators winning on a 63 yard Hail Mary as the clock expired after the Vols tied it with less then a minute left.

    Well BTD must be very happy (none / 0) (#88)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 06:51:37 PM EST
    Unless he bet against his heart :-)

    That may explain his sudden silence. (none / 0) (#102)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 01:23:52 AM EST
    Never bet on or against your own team. (none / 0) (#117)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:17:10 PM EST
    One is too close to the subject to make an qualitative and objective analysis. And speaking of college football, the San Diego State Aztecs look particularly formidable this season, having now beaten both Arizona State and Stanford back-to-back.

    Last night's 20-17 victory over the Cardinal was an old-fashioned slugfest that was won in the trenches, with SDSU utilizing the sort of ground and short passing game which was once the hallmark and pride of Big 10 powers. By grinding it out and controlling both the ball and the tempo, the Aztecs efficiently ran the clock and kept the high-octane Stanford offense standing on the sidelines for over two-thirds of the contest.



    SDSU is now ranked #25 (none / 0) (#136)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 11:38:02 PM EST
    In some national polls.

    Many, many moons ago. (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 10:16:29 AM EST
    (seems like a lifetime ago, late 70s, earlier 80s). I worked as a typesetter and graphic artist on all the SDSU sports publications. Media guides, game programs, etc. One perk was the Sports Info Director would give me concert tickets to the SDSU outdoor ampitheatre. I think that was the best part of the job. (I got turned on to the Kinks and Warren Zevon from those tickets).

    The company I worked for also did USD, USIU and the San Diego Clippers media guides. I loved the work and living in that city. Again, a different life than today.


    free with Amazon Prime (none / 0) (#90)
    by linea on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 08:58:16 PM EST
    highly recommend: The War Bride

    EMMYS! (none / 0) (#106)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 11:46:49 AM EST
    I am as excited as the next person about tonights awards.

    i think either BETTER CALL SAUL or WESTWORLD will win as best drama series.  i will cheer either.

    i would be really happy if BETTER CALL SAUL won for best drama series (because its great) and WESTWORLD won for all the other things they are nominated for.  because its great.

    but i just watched a DVRed series thats being rerun on STARZ which is something to keep in mind tonight.  PILLARS OF THE EARTH.  one of the best things to ever grace the small sceen.  which got small notice by the EMMYs.  they won some.  were nominated for others.  but .....

    just sayin.

    Disappointed Kyle MacLachlan (none / 0) (#109)
    by McBain on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 12:25:06 PM EST
    didn't get a nomination. The recent season of Twin Peaks was a mixed bag but he was excellent. He played at last three versions of the same character.

    He played three versions (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 03:28:38 PM EST
    Of Kyle MacLachlan.

    Twin Peaks should be politely ignored   IMO


    VOX (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:03:07 PM EST
    But one name whose absence might provoke alarm is that of Showtime's Twin Peaks revival, which will not be nominated in any categories. And the reason is simple: Though it aired four episodes before the May 31, 2017 eligibility cutoff, the majority of its 18 episodes will air during the next Emmy eligibility period, which runs from June 1, 2017, to May 31, 2018.

    There was plenty to ingore this season (none / 0) (#134)
    by McBain on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 10:44:06 PM EST
    but also plenty of highlights.  I don't know why they made  18 episodes.   Had they cut it down to six it could have been much better.  

    I was hoping you'd be on talking Emmys (none / 0) (#115)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:10:14 PM EST
    I confess I have not even looked at nominations...will be pulling for Better Call Saul, The Americans, and Westworld...I take it American Gods is not eligible this cycle, or you would have mentioned it!

    For comedies, I don't see how anything (none / 0) (#116)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:14:19 PM EST
    beats VEEP this season. Every episode was just flat out LOL funny.

    I also love Insecure and Silicon Valley.  All three on HBO. I don't even know any good regular network comedies anymore. Am I forgetting something?


    SNL (none / 0) (#119)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:21:23 PM EST
    Is going to have some wins.  Probably not in the same category as VEEP.

    I expect Steven will get political.


    This is the first time in a while (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:28:04 PM EST
    There are several nominations I have not seen.

    Haven't seen Handmaids Tail or The Crown.


    The Crown was very good, I thought (none / 0) (#126)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:56:19 PM EST
    Claire Foy is excellent, as is the writing.

    Have not seen Handmaid's Tale...waiting to be able to see it someplace other than hulu.  Elizabeth Moss might take Keri Russell's Emmy.


    I am so out of it I don't know Atlanta (none / 0) (#131)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 09:07:56 PM EST
    is a comedy. I'll have to check it out!

    AMERICAN GODS (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:19:30 PM EST
    Has two nomination I know of.  Visual effects and main title sequence.  

    I think it will probably win for title sequence even tho it's up against WESTWORLD which is also pretty awsum.

    I think WESTWORLD has the most nominations.


    STRANGER THINGS (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 09:16:20 AM EST
    won for both Title Sequence and Title Sequence Music.  And I'm good with that.  It deserved it.  I sort of forgot about them.

    WESTWORLD won for Visual Effects.  Also totally deserved


    I loved the Stranger Things 80s throwback (none / 0) (#149)
    by McBain on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 10:02:34 AM EST
    electronic music.  I'm a big Tangerine Dream fan and they used some of that and were inspired by that.

    ... starts tonight. So I'll be watching that instead, while quietly rooting for "Better Call Saul" and "Feud: Bette and Joan" at tonight's awards show.  

    FEUD (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:42:24 PM EST
    Has a buttload of nominations but I hope I loses for limited series to THE NIGHT OF

    I'll be taping the Viet Nam series (none / 0) (#124)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:49:58 PM EST
    I'm sure it will be amazing.

    Taking the opportunity for live light entertainment tonight.


    We ended up watching the Emmy Awards ... (none / 0) (#137)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 02:56:52 AM EST
    ... because unlike past years, they didn't show it on a delayed primetime basis, and so it aired live at 2:00 p.m. out here. It was over before 5:00. Besides, it was pouring rain all afternoon as it has most of the weekend, so there was nothing else to do. I'm going to have to catch up on yard work this week. I'll come home early tomorrow if the weather cooperates and mow the lawn.

    My lawn is covered with (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by fishcamp on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 08:24:11 AM EST
    so much hurricane debris that I can't even see it.  It's still an unbelievable mess down here.  They won't let my cleaning lady down here from Homestead since she doesn't have keys residency paperwork, and she's Cuban.  Usually I barely need her but this time I really do.

    I can only imagine. (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 12:00:07 PM EST
    Hurricanes are not fun. I've only experienced three in my life -- Agnes in Florida back in 1972, and Iniki and Iselle out here in 1992 and 2014, respectively.

    For Agnes, we were stuck in an Orlando hotel for two days, and that city was little more than a rural town back then. Iniki was a Category 4 and really scary, but it only sideswiped us on Oahu, doing its worst on Kauai. Iselle was only a Category 1, but it hit us directly on the Big Island, dumped one helluva lot of rain on the area and was much more messy, as far as the yard clean-up after the storm had passed.

    There was a whole grove of albezia trees behind our house that were just flattened, and they covered and closed the road on the other side. Thankfully, they blew down in a direction that was away from us and not toward us, otherwise our mess would've even been worse.

    Albezias are very tall, stately and beautiful trees, but I really had no idea they were so fragile. They were all over Hilo and Puna but not any more, because they snapped and toppled en masse in the 80 mph winds, leaving our roads and highways looking like they were smothered by giant toothpicks. It took the County weeks to clear the debris. Lesson learned. Now, the State and County are proactively removing the remaining albezias as best they can, in anticipation of the next storm.

    Anyway, I'm glad you're okay. Yards, trees, belongings and houses can be replaced, but you can't be.



    About half way thru (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 10:43:00 AM EST
    The first installment while making lunch.

    Brilliant, astonishing, adjectives fail me.

    They can just give him the documentary EMMY right now and save time.


    Both AMERICANS (none / 0) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:37:03 PM EST
    Are nominated.  And overdue IMO

    I would love to see Jonathan Banks win for Mike in BETTER CALL SAUL.


    I suspect a lot of the awards will go to (none / 0) (#125)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:53:12 PM EST
    "This Is Us". It is a very good Big3 network TV drama, with one really outstanding performance by Sterling K Brown. If the powers that be are in the mood to throw some love to network TV, it could dash the hopes of my favorite shows.

    And I am wrong except for (none / 0) (#133)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 09:58:06 PM EST
    Sterling K Brown.  Hard to argue with that one though I do like other shows a lot better. Is he as good as Matthew Rhys though? Maybe a coin toss?

    Maybe The Americans will get something next year after the final season. It really is weird how it has been consistently overlooked.


    But then they will be (none / 0) (#145)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 09:07:24 AM EST
    Up against the final season of you-know-what.

    oh no!! (none / 0) (#186)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 20, 2017 at 09:46:40 AM EST
    Actually if The Americans airs this winter and the tother show not until late next year as they are threatening...that other show will be up for Emmys 2 yrs from now!!!  By then some of there show will come along and rob it.

    Sean Spicer came at during Colbert's (none / 0) (#129)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 07:10:26 PM EST
    opening monologue to attest to the size of the audience. The looks on the faces in the audience was precious and hilarious! Melissa McCarthy included.

    Spicey memories (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by KeysDan on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 11:01:49 PM EST
    should be restricted to those of Melissa McCarthy's send ups.   No need to see Spicey himself. ever again....just rewards him for being a Trump agency for lies.  

    i agree (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 05:36:34 AM EST
    that was weird.  the grinning doofus rolls out on stage and makes jokes about his lies from the press briefing podium.  how craven do you have to be to do that.

    no, sorry.  you dont get to get applause for that.

    very weird.

    i get that the joke was at his expense.  still,  weird.

    lots of choices i did not agree with.  but Riz won for THE NIGHT OF.

    i really want to see Handmaids Tail.  the movie with Robert Duvall and Faye Dunnaway was excellent.


    Sean Spicer is never going to be funny, (none / 0) (#140)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 07:47:58 AM EST
    at least not to me.  McCarthy's ongoing send-ups of Spicer weren't even really all that funny, either, just dead-on in showing people that this administration wasn't going to lie just about the big things, it was going to lie about everything.

    And it has.  Craven doesn't begin to cover it. And just because Spicer was willing to make himself the butt of an Emmy joke doesn't make him one of the good guys, either.  

    Just so not funny.

    Was delighted to see Riz Ahmed win for The Night Of, which was just heartbreakingly good.

    And I really want to see The Handmaid's Tale, as well, but may read the book instead.


    I read the book (none / 0) (#141)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 08:07:23 AM EST
    After seeing the movie.

    I believe you will love it.


    I didn't say Spicer was funny. (none / 0) (#143)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 08:27:44 AM EST
    They panned the audience when he came out. It was the looks on the faces in the audience that was funny to me.

    Yes (none / 0) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 09:05:44 AM EST
    The reaction shots were pretty good.  Melissa was very WTF?

    He did get in a WIZARD OF LIES joke about Spicer later.

    I wonder if maybe the point of inviting him, knowing he would of course accept, was to show the depth of his moral rot.


    It was Greek Theatre, (none / 0) (#167)
    by KeysDan on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 02:46:36 PM EST
    Comedy (Mellissa McCarthy as Spicey) and Tragedy (Spicey as Spicey).  Yes, I, too, observed Chuck's audience reaction...startled and laughter, maybe nervous laughter.  And, I agree, the Wizard of Lies joke, a little later in the show, helped.  But, still.

    Re Sean Spicer (none / 0) (#139)
    by Nemi on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 05:55:26 AM EST
    David Frum asks Will America Accept Refugees From Trump's White House?

    Love the opening paragraph:

    The first wave of Trump White House refugees is now landing on American shores. The instability of their former abode has already set nearly a dozen senior staffers into motion, with who knows how many more to follow. No question, many of them have suffered horrible abuse and maltreatment. But compassion must be joined to realism. Are these migrants bringing with them values consistent with our way of life?

    ... and the closing:

    In the second presidential debate of 2016, in the course of offering some thoughts on how to deal with the war in Syria and all the refugees that conflict generated, Donald Trump wondered: "How stupid is our country?" From the welcome American institutions extend to Trump refugees, we will receive an update on the answer.

    But seriously I'll never be able to even begin to understand the degree of loyalty and devotion -- from anyone -- to Donald Trump. It's mindblowing.

    And totally agree about Melissa McCarthy. Her first stint as Sean Spicer still cracks me up. So perfect, and so professional, that she herself never cracked up but stayed in character the whole time. "Also I don't talk so good" ... I know, right. :)


    Has Agent Orange (none / 0) (#147)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 09:38:04 AM EST
    Tweeted about his EMMY thrashing?

    I have seen no news of it and don't care enough to look.

    Kelly probably moved his phone to an undisclosed location after the Hillary golf ball tweet.  And knowing the EMMYs were coming up.

    Kelly might want to keep that phone and himself (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by vml68 on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 06:11:11 PM EST
    been watching pols squirm (5.00 / 3) (#174)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 06:17:21 PM EST
    today when asked if they "agree" with Clinton.

    it needed to be said.  good for her for saying it without a hedge.


    "Bu-bu-bu-but, your EMAILS!!!" (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 19, 2017 at 04:05:02 AM EST
    LOL! Hillary was raised with manners, and is much too polite to tell Terry Gross and the east coast media, "This is what resistance really looks like, you silly bee-yitches!"

    Look first to what we knew nine months ago, and then fast forward to what we know now. Hillary Clinton's no fool. Given the trajectory of Mueller's investigation and the mounting evidence of Russian chicanery and likely Trump campaign collusion, why should she summarily rule out questioning the legitimacy of the 2016 election, or even challenging the results legally in a court of law?

    Honestly, I don't get this "oh, well!" shrugging of the shoulders by the media, as though we should simply accept what fate has ordained for us and move on. If the evidence eventually shows that Trump's election was fraudulent and that victory was indeed stolen from Clinton, all hell should rightly break loose across the country.



    didn't read the article yet (none / 0) (#175)
    by NYShooter on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 06:49:28 PM EST
    Her reasoning..........Russia?

    That's the reason (none / 0) (#176)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 07:13:18 PM EST
    Although the headline is misleading.

    NPR's Terry Gross asked Clinton directly during the interview whether she would "completely rule out questioning the legitimacy of this election if we learn that the Russian interference in the election is even deeper than we know now?"
    "No. I would not," Clinton said.
    Gross asked: "You're not going to rule it out?"
    "No," Clinton said. "I wouldn't rule it out."

    Help us, Obi-wan Kenobi. (none / 0) (#157)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 12:08:51 PM EST
    You're our only hope.

    this is not (none / 0) (#170)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 05:34:08 PM EST
    the phone you are looking for