Tuesday Open Thread: Keys Update

I think all TalkLeft readers will welcome the news that I received word today from Fishcamp (though two of his friends) that he is fine and wanted me to let his friends in Aspen, his sister and TL readers know. I've called his sister and a friend of his in Aspen who can notify his (very large) community of friends there. I'm sure when he gets power and cell phone service back, he will tell more in his own inimitable way.

I'm inundated with finalizing two large cases both of which go to court tomorrow and should be back to normal by Friday.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Thanks for sharing the news about Fishcamp, (5.00 / 10) (#1)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 02:46:32 PM EST
    Jeralyn. Good to hear that he came through okay.

    Thanks J!... (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 02:58:37 PM EST
    I figured he was safe and holed up with some Tito's till the power and internet came back...but the media sensationalization can even make the "what, me worry?" crowd crazy.

    I add my thanks at this (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by caseyOR on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 03:11:41 PM EST
    news, J. So glad that fish camp is okay. I await his stories of this adventure.

    Whew. (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 03:19:33 PM EST
    Yeh (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by Zorba on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 03:22:18 PM EST
    No kidding.

    Yay Fishcamp! (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by desertswine on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 05:04:15 PM EST
    Don't encourage his risk-taking! (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 08:30:48 PM EST
    You are not kidding about the media (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 03:59:53 PM EST
    sensationalization but there are some truly sad and frightening stories out there.
    Husband told me that a woman who works at the same company had a tree fall on the house in the middle of the night. She was in bed and was injured. Lost her leg from the knee down. One of her dogs was also seriously injured.

    Irma was a Cat2 in her area. Irma was a Cat4 where Fish is. I was really worried for him. Most of us tend to think nothing bad will happen to us or our loved ones, until it does. Mother nature can be brutal.


    Yes, there are so many sad stories (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 09:49:29 AM EST
    Many local deaths here due to CO poisoning from misuse of generators. And the horrible story of the 8 elderly people that died from overheating in a nursing home.

    You don't have to be washed away in the initial storm to have dire effects.

    I'm sure we have not heard half of what has or will happen in Houston either due to the chemical spills in the water there.


    Thanks for the news (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 03:30:32 PM EST
    on Fishcamp. I think we all have been thinking about him with concern. And yes, he will have more fabulous stories to tell us I'm sure.

    Thank you for letting us know - (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 03:44:55 PM EST
    greatly relieved fish is okay!

    Good news, after Islamodora (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by Towanda on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 03:45:46 PM EST
    was shown on CNN, as an example of some of the worst devastation from the hurricane.  

    Watch for the visuals and interviews.  Amazing.

    Cat V sigh of relief !!!! (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 03:46:13 PM EST
    Great news. I have not been optimistic with the other news out of the Keys.

    Dilemma (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 04:05:25 PM EST
    Power and air conditioning are here at work....booze and the dog are at home.

    I'm going home.

    Aren't you due a bring your dog (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:26:48 PM EST
    To work day where you work very late? Blow up mattress? Bottle of red blend hidden in the bottom of the trash can?

    How can Google have nap pods and you get zero?


    Yeah! Really! (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 12:02:07 PM EST
    Still no  at home. They are saying worst case is probably end of Sunday, so I can deal with that, but I hope it is sooner.

    It is so localized - there is power a mile away. So at least I can go out for food. Went over to a friends' in the evening to cool off, and it was cool enough to sleep when I got back. Just eerie to see whole neighborhoods pitch-dark.

    My biggest 1st world problem : gees, generators are frickin' LOUD. there is one in the neighborhood across the pond from me that sounds like I am sleeping next to a jet engine.


    My friend outside (none / 0) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:02:18 PM EST
    of Orlando in Seminole County says she is probably not going to get electricity until Sunday.

    Great news about fishcamp and all our (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 04:58:34 PM EST
    FL TL'rs!

    I imagine fishcamp will have a few stories to tell!

    He was telling stories up to the (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:24:12 PM EST
    Moment he lost power.

    I would expect no less. (none / 0) (#20)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:26:22 PM EST
    FTR, that last story (none / 0) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:28:49 PM EST
    Had To Be Bull$hit! I still can't get my mind around it hahaha

    Irma wind speeds (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 12:22:47 AM EST
    Irma's statistics from Colorado State University

    185 mph max winds for 37 hours - the longest any cyclone around the globe has maintained that intensity on record.

    So grateful (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 07:50:50 AM EST
    That the loss of life is thusfar not as horrific as feared.

    The destruction we are now seeing today is hard to grasp.


    "140 mph at 3:45 am here at stormcamp." (none / 0) (#23)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:32:29 PM EST
    This one? 140 is a big number for sure.

    So in your possible last moments (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 07:01:09 PM EST
    You thought about what time with who?

    I've got fishcamp's


    Ooo, I believe it!!!! (none / 0) (#55)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 09:08:32 AM EST
    Disaster averted (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 09:44:59 AM EST
    The Tampa Bay Rays will indeed be returning home this weekend! My Cubs game will happen on Tuesday!!!

    That was a real nail biter. You can all relax now.

    Whew! (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 10:26:37 AM EST
    Glad to hear it Ruff!

    My nephew is now employed by the Metsies as a clubhouse attendant, he's been on the job a few weeks having the time of his life. He got to serve as a ballboy during the Rays 3 game series in Flushing Meadows that just completed.  Wild seeing my nephew on tv on a major league diamond in a major league uniform.


    that is so exciting!!!! (none / 0) (#129)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 06:43:03 PM EST
    Glad he is getting that experience - he'll never forget it!  If the Cubs play the mets I will ask you if he is on TV.

    Never judge a book by (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 01:34:28 PM EST
    its cover---or its coverage.  "What Happened" by Hillary Clinton is a candid and funny (in an almost gallows humor way) account of the 2016 presidential campaign from its cynosure.  A postmortem in which Mrs. Clinton is at once coroner and corpse....along with the rest of America which is suffering the deleterious consequences.  

    The publication of the book seems to indicate that the "lock her up" crowd holds diplomas from the Evelyn Wood School of Speed Reading; Amazon reports that within hours of release of the 512 page tome, they were flooded with "one star" reviews.  However, of verified purchasers, the average for real buyers was 4.9 (out of five stars).  Amazon has removed some reviews.

    Some Democrats have dreaded the book; even Senator Franken is quoted as saying "I love Hillary, she's the smartest, toughest, hard-working person I know, And I think she has a right to analyze what happened. But, we have to move on."

     Yes, this smart person who was the standard bearer of the Democratic party, should, really, move on. Yet, the country has been riveted by questions about the campaign to the extent that there are counter-intelligence, unlawful collusion with a foreign government and/or criminal investigations ongoing by Senate and House committees as well as by a Special Counsel.  

    Mrs. Clinton's  take on the election is surely a part of informing and understanding what happened and what to do about it all. And, it is a good read, to boot.  

    It is not contradictory for the losing candidate to own up to her mistakes, as she does, but, also, to  point to persons and factors that impacted or exacerbated her mistakes, and subsequent loss.

    And, that she does: Comey, Bernie, the Media, pundits, voter suppression, Putin, and, of course, Trump and family.

     And, the times: running a traditional campaign with policies, when a TV reality show was in vogue that stoked angers and resentment. The year of bluster--She could not be trusted to do what she said she would do, so the vote went to him, who said, flat out, that he would do what they did not want. All the same, Coke v Pepsi, when the reality shows, Coke v Sewer Water.

    Then there is the not insignificant factor of misogyny and sexism. What it was like to run as the first female nominee of a major political party. (Senator McConnell, empaneled a working committee of senators on Obamacare replacement with not a single women).

     How can the Democratic party "move on," from this discussion and its experiences, and consider Senator Kamala Harris?  Or, for that matter, dissect that "economic anxiety" of those fabled Scranton workers, and consider Corey Booker?  And, then there is the demonization of whatever Democratic nominee.   Emails; swiftboating, brown suits....

    From its primer on Russia spying to Trump aspirations for "Moscow on the Potomac,"  Mrs. Clinton's "What Happened" is a good story, and, tragically, one in which, at a minimum, history conspired against her.

    I am listening to HRC narration. (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 02:11:00 PM EST
    Quite engaging.  Rueful, reflectve, historical.  

    Well, We Both Liked Franken's Book, (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by RickyJim on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 03:53:49 PM EST
    "Al Franken Giant of the Senate."  However in this case, I am not sure I want to read or listen to "What Went Wrong." Does she analyze her message, or lack thereof, and explain how it could have been improved or better presented?  

    I feel that explaining well how all the improvement in the economy, since the recession, has gone to the wealthiest, with the middle and bottom staying the same, and what to do about it, would have won the presidency for the Democrats.


    Probably not (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 07:38:58 PM EST
    Does she analyze her message, or lack thereof, and explain how it could have been improved or better presented?  

    I doubt she spent much time on the Tooth Fairy or Easter Bunny, either.


    Does she analyze (none / 0) (#121)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 03:46:55 PM EST
    her message, or lack thereof, and explain how it could have been improved or better presented?

    Yes, as indicated in my review of "What Happened," she engages in a critical analysis along with considerations about doing things differently or better.  It is, of course, a self-analysis, but, never-the-less, one with first-hand insights and information. An important component of the body of knowledge to be discovered and studied about the 2016 presidential campaign.


    Excerpt from recent interview (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Nemi on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 05:57:36 AM EST
    Sen. Al Franken talks Trump, 'SNL' and 2020:

    Harwood: ... I concluded from your book that you remain a little bit irritated with Obama and the distance that he kept from you in 2008.

    Franken: Not really. I know it might sound like that. I was a little peeved because I clearly was the closest race that year in 2008. But I can understand better now why he didn't.

    Harwood: Even after the election when you were trying to raise money for your recount?

    Franken: That, I still -- I don't know who to fault for that, him or his team.

    Harwood: Have you talked to the president about it?

    Franken: I have not. And I hope to. I hope to because I know he'll probably see it in the book. I had to raise, like, $13 million for the recount. People might say, "What?" Well, it was lawyers.

    And he was, like, high-60s [approval rating]. All he had to do was put on a tux and, boom, $3 million, you know? That would be a lot of call time. By the way, I think he was a great president.

    Maybe he himself needs to "move on", eh!


    Sounds like an interesting book (none / 0) (#71)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 02:26:52 PM EST
    for people who read political books.  Maybe an HBO movie at some point down the road for people who like movies? Not sure who should play the leads yet.  

    I think Trump won because he was different and he outworked Clinton.  


    "Outworked" Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 07:42:08 PM EST
    That was funny.

    I think he won because there are a lot of clueless people who get their news from FB memes and the Clinton-hating emails sent by their Uncle Joe, rather than dealing with reality.  Plus, there's the antiquated electoral college, Comey's October nothingburger and help from his Russian friends ... and sexism.


    SRSLY? (none / 0) (#72)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 03:38:34 PM EST
    I think Trump won because he was different and he outworked Clinton.  

    Outworked?  In what universe?

    And when you say "different," in every respect that he was different from Hillary, he was worse.  Give me one example of how his difference was a better quality than hers.

    If we can believe a Republican Congress, Hillary Clinton is the most honest politician who ever lived.  The GOP spent millions of dollars and decades on investigation, and didn't manage to pin a parking ticket on her.  The Benghazi Committee alone exonerated her eight more times than the Constitutional standard (Double Jeopardy) for criminal tribunals.  She is squeaky clean.

    Knowing that, how do you explain the meme that took hold that Hillary, overwhelmingly proven to be honest, was somehow crooked, and Trump, with a decades long record of dishonesty and lies, was considered more honest than Hillary?

    I believe the Facebook invasion was one of the keys.  I noticed an uptick of venom and outright lies about Hillary with no real reason for it.  Now we know that Russia was working very hard to swing the election with Facebook as one of the tools.


    Bill Maher says (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 03:45:56 PM EST
    if you hate Hillary, you must have been molested by a real estate lady--Hillary is a Centrist.

    Hillary is very conventional.  Married once.  Mother.  Grandmother. No affairs.  No drugs.   No crimes....

    Middle of the road Democrat.....

    My theory, when being charitable, is that Hillary has the same issue as Al Gore--not slippery or unctuous enough to be a natural politician, and so they come off stiff.  But in reality, both really good, honest people.  Being a good politician means being less than real.

    On the not so charitable side, Hillary had it right: about half of Trump voters fitting into a basket of deplorables. (Aside, "basket" sounded like such a feminine thing to say.)i


    Yes, Hillary hate (none / 0) (#77)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:18:11 PM EST
    continues.  Martin Shkreli (he of the hiking prices of AIDS drugs and convicted felon for securities fraud) who was out on $5 million bail awaiting sentencing, had his bail revoked by the judge. He was taken to jail.

    Mr. Shkreli placed on Facebook his offer of $5,000 to grab a hair from her while she was on her book tour; he would pay $5,000 per hair provided it included the follicle for DNA testing/verification. Shreli's defense attorney attempted a claim of humor, but the judge didn't get the joke...rather she saw it as solicitation of assault.  It would not be hard to find, among Shreli's 70,000 followers some one who might oblige him and then some.

    As we know from the right wing wacko's claim of child trafficking by Clinton and associates (cf. General Flynn's son) in D.C.'s Comet Ping Pong Restaurant's basement, where there was, of course, nothing of the kind, including a basement, the North Carolina guy, Edgar Welch, got in his truck and traveled 300 miles to "self-investigate."  And, his subsequent shooting up the place was not because some of the diners were eating their pizza with knife and fork.

     I think the judge made a good call so as to control Shkreli and cut him off from his followers.


    between Shkreli (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:21:00 PM EST
    and Flynn Jr and Trumps new BFFs Chuck and Nancy (i never say that without remembering Sid and Nancy and the comparison makes me giggle) this has been bad week for the fever swamp.

    And (none / 0) (#98)
    by Nemi on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 06:08:29 AM EST
    NYT trying to downplay the seriousness with this headline: "Martin Shkreli Is Jailed for Seeking a Hair From Hillary Clinton."

    No big deal, right ...


    Aside, (none / 0) (#82)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:56:49 PM EST
     "basket" sounded like such a feminine thing to say."

    Mrs. Clinton may have appropriated the term "basket" from her time as Secretary of State.  Organizing and categorizing issues into baskets is often a term that is used in treaties and pacts.  Its use may have stemmed from Buddism, where early writings were organized and put, literally, into baskets. (e.g. The Three Baskets,... three scriptures or canons at the heart of Buddist teachings).


    funny (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 05:06:41 PM EST
    i took it as a ref to the great FX series BASKETS.

    with Zack Galifianakis as a neurotic depressed clown and Louie Anderson as his mother.

    "basket of deplorables"  was perfect.


    best promo ever (none / 0) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 05:23:40 PM EST
    Very serious (none / 0) (#75)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:00:25 PM EST
    Obama was a Democrat who served two terms.  After 8 years the other party tends to win. Historically, Democrats have feared worse than Republicans on that. In addition, Trump didn't have the typical political background and we already had a Clinton for a president.  Trump was VERY different.

    Trump outworked Hilary by miles.... flying, driving all over the country for rallies.  He also gave more interviews.  You can say whatever you want about who is more honest, but you can't deny Trump was a hard worker.



    Sure, I can (5.00 / 3) (#76)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:03:59 PM EST
    Trump rarely spent the night away from Manhattan.  He usually flew back in time for a late dinner.  

    Three rambling speeches a day for a total of three hours constitutes hard work?

    Doing no studying of the issues, so he knew nothing.  That is hard work?

    Not a fan of Trump hagiography.


    I guess he's forgotten Trump's first (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:46:10 PM EST
    trip abroad, when he was reported - by his own spokespeople, no less - to be exhausted, which was the explanation for some of his verbal gaffes.

    This is the man who needed a golf cart to walk 700 yards for a group photo with the rest of the G7 members - and was late for the photo.

    Trump didn't work hard during the campaign, and I see no signs of him working hard now. He'd have fallen over dead if he'd had to maintain the schedule Clinton did when she was Secretary of State.


    Now there's a possibility I (none / 0) (#80)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:54:16 PM EST
    hadn't thought of. Keep playing golf, mr.  

    hair (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 04:55:23 PM EST
    he must work hard on his hair.  it cannot be easy to keep that twisted misshapen mega combover under control.

    i realized the other day Trump is the first president we will not see get increasingly grey over the years.  clearly he gets colored almost daily.


    He got his message across (2.00 / 1) (#85)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 07:18:40 PM EST
    to votes in key states with his hard work.

    If doing all those rallies and interviews was so easy why didn't Hilary do that?    


    "He got his message across" (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 07:22:56 PM EST
    With a little help from Putin and Comey?

    The Russians (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 07:24:29 PM EST
    Facebook pro-Trump propaganda hit the mark.....

    Time will tell how the Russians knew whom to target...


    Two words: Cambridge Analytica. (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 02:09:51 AM EST
    MKS: "Time will tell how the Russians knew whom to target ..."

    I first wrote about this here at TL early last February when I read this article in Motherboard, which sent my antennae poking right through my tinfoil hat. And who's on Cambridge Analytica's board of directors? Steve Bannon.



    Cambridge Analtica, (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 07:30:58 AM EST
    is owned by Robert Mercer, Trump supporter and patron of Breitbart.

    I don't think Comey had anything to do (none / 0) (#89)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 08:02:42 PM EST
    with Trump's win.  I don't know what role Russia played and neither do you.  I do know Trump put out is message, over and over, at countless rallies.  He also used social media.

    At some point Democrats need to stop making excuses and figure out how to win. Figure out how to get my vote.  They should probably start with a fresh face.  


    Message? (5.00 / 4) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 08:11:41 PM EST
    The Muslim ban, the Wall, repeal Obama care, that message?  He sure got it out, no doubt about that.

    What has followed probably means we don't need your vote.


    I think Hillary was so right about (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 08:15:57 PM EST
    the "basket."

    And, McBain's comments about not punishing men for just being aggressive men, really reinforces my theory that it has been the changing role of women, and its backlash, that explains conservative and Trump voters.....They vote on culture, and the greatest change has been the advancement of women....

    Some guys just can't deal....and so we have the Trump reactionary movement.


    The Rachel interview (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 08:32:15 PM EST
    Has been pretty good

    I'm finishing your sentence... (none / 0) (#103)
    by vml68 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 11:01:25 AM EST
    They vote on culture, and the greatest change has been the advancement of women....

    the advancement of women...and non-white people of either sex/gender.


    Yes, that was part of his message (none / 0) (#94)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 10:17:01 PM EST
    so was helping create more jobs.  

    I live in California.  My individual vote is meaningless.  But getting me to vote democrat means they're probably going to win the swing states.  

    Time to stop complaining.    


    That you may not have been (5.00 / 4) (#99)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 07:22:12 AM EST
    aware that Clinton was attending rallies and giving interviews doesn't mean it wasn't happening - it was.

    And the Comey letter most certainly did have an effect on the election:

    Hillary Clinton would probably be president if FBI Director James Comey had not sent a letter to Congress on Oct. 28. The letter, which said the FBI had "learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the investigation" into the private email server that Clinton used as secretary of state, upended the news cycle and soon halved Clinton's lead in the polls, imperiling her position in the Electoral College.


    The impact of Comey's letter is comparatively easy to quantify, by contrast. At a maximum, it might have shifted the race by 3 or 4 percentage points toward Donald Trump, swinging Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Florida to him, perhaps along with North Carolina and Arizona. At a minimum, its impact might have been only a percentage point or so. Still, because Clinton lost Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin by less than 1 point, the letter was probably enough to change the outcome of the Electoral College.


    The effect of Comey's late intervention into the election is also clear in the national polls. As neuroscientist Sam Wang showed, Clinton's margin over Trump falls dramatically in national polls directly after the Comey letter and never recovers. At the time, statistician Nate Silver noted that the Comey letter coincided with "a swing of about 3 points against her" -- a massive swing in a tight election. These public polls are supported by internal polling from both campaigns suggesting that Comey was a massive blow to Clinton at a pivotal moment in the election.

    This is not information or analysis that is hard to find, so I guess this is just more of the same kind of thinking that brought us the "women want men to be aggressive" nonsense.

    The more you reveal about how your mind works, the less credibility you have.


    The polls were BS (none / 0) (#102)
    by McBain on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 10:55:59 AM EST
    manipulated  for clicks and ratings.  Clinton would have a big lead and then suddenly Trump catches up.  Then a big lead again...  You just had to change the % of dems, repubs, and independents sampled.

    Yes, I'm aware Clinton did some rallies.  Nowhere near the number Trump did.  Nowhere near the number of interviews.  Talking to people wasn't her strength while Trump's stamina was amazing.

    Time to stop making excuses.  Time to find someone who can get people excited to vote Democrat. Gavin Newsom? Someone else?  I'll listen to someone engaging with an actual message. That's how my mind works and many swing state voters are similar.  


    What are you smoking? (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by vml68 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 11:08:36 AM EST
    while Trump's stamina was amazing

    Please share because I sure could use it to get through the next few months/years till the pumpkin-hued pustule gets the boot.


    Sigh. Find me a poll that doesn't show (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 11:52:25 AM EST
    the Comey effect, if you can.

    Here are some stats on all-things campaign-related, in case you are of a mind to check them out.

    I am still laughing about your claim that Trump's stamina was amazing.  It actually wasn't.  Within 4 months of taking office, Trump was exhausted well before his 9-day foreign trip was over.

    Many of Trump's interviews were the result of his TV addiction and inability to not constantly be part of the conversation, and the media being suckered into giving him all that free air time. I notice you haven't addressed the quality of what he was saying to the media, which I think actually matters. How hard is it, exactly, to watch TV and use Twitter and the telephone to ramble incoherently and inconsistently?  

    I think there are more than a few people who wish he'd spent that time actually educating himself on the issues, but he either didn't have the stamina for that kind of mental work, or he just wasn't interested - neither possibility there being at all comforting.

    But here's the really important part: you seem to be the one making arguments about stamina and Comey and such, and then accusing people of making excuses for challenging your grasp of the facts, and things we all saw and heard and read with our own eyes and ears.

    I do not believe, in a million years, that you would ever vote for a Democrat, so please do us the courtesy of laying off the chain you're trying so hard to yank.  We're not buying it.

    And no, our rejection of your faux interest in maybe, possibly, voting for the Democrat that checks all your boxes does not mean we are making the same mistakes that Clinton did.  It just means we've seen enough of you to know phony when we encounter it.


    IMO, he just does not have the mental capacity (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by vml68 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 12:08:27 PM EST
    he either didn't have the stamina for that kind of mental work, or he just wasn't interested

    to grasp anything beyond the most basic concepts, if that.
    Afterall, "Nobody knew health care could be so complicated."


    I've voted Democrat in the past (none / 0) (#107)
    by McBain on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 12:15:11 PM EST
    even donated money to Obama. It probably won't take a million years for me to vote that way again.  I've listed my stance on several issues before that don't align with most Republicans....  abortion, death penalty, religion....  You should really stop guessing as to my beliefs because quite often, you're wrong.

    Here's several articles on how Trump outworked Clinton.
    You don't have to like his interviews, rallies, 2am tweets but stop pretending Clinton was his equal in terms of effort.

    No go ahead and write another bloated response where you change the subject and make false allegations.



    Heh - your "evidence" (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 07:47:53 PM EST
    A google search to articles from fellow wingers that are also pushing your laughable theory.

    That's funny.


    Gavin Newsom (none / 0) (#108)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 01:01:08 PM EST
    Heh, all, this is why I have thought Gavin might be a good candidate....

    He can con people into voting for him based on style......as McBain is suggesting, perhaps not all that honestly.....

    But Kamala Harris is I think the better Californian.   Never made a mistake.   Has more personality than I thought.

    But, McBain, with his superficial take on a "fresh face" getting his vote, may have a point....sizzle wins out over steak....Doesn't make me happy....

    Armando is spinning over his own future grave beside himself with the realization and trying to warn that people voted for Trump, not out of economic anxiety, but white insecurity (to put it charitably.)  Bernie Sanders was the economic insecurity guy, not Trump.  And, I think, Armando is close to saying, if he hasn't already, that ploys like Bill's Sista Soulja pandering to whites, is what it might take.....Gavin Newsom, to finish the point, is more like Bill in appealing to whites than anyone else out there.

    And maybe that is what it will take to win......Makes one sick....But it appears Armando, (and maybe he will hate me for speaking for him here) will accept even that--if it results in a win.

    A week out from the election, Armando tweeted that the white voters of Michigan etc. scared the hell out of him.....I said he was worrying for no reason....Guess he was right....So, I think he may be right again...  


    Why Was it Even Close? (none / 0) (#113)
    by RickyJim on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 05:10:34 PM EST
    Because Clinton was a lousy candidate - no charisma, no warmth and no obvious message.  The things you are obsessing about: Russia, Comey, deplorables, etc, only came into play because the Democrats nominated a candidate with enough negatives to be comparable to the one the Republicans nominated.  Close elections can be decided on all sorts of stuff.  You don't think Biden, say, would have slaughtered Trump?

    Her negatives were only high (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 07:45:50 PM EST
    ... because there are a lot of ignorant people who bought the ridiculous conspiracy theories pushed about her for the past 25 years, along with the kind of garbage you're selling.

    You don't cave to ignorance - you fight it.


    Perhaps (none / 0) (#119)
    by FlJoe on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 05:19:08 AM EST
    Hillary was a lousy campaign(she's not a natural politician like her husband or Obama). However by most metrics tRump was a terrible candidate, he had the charisma of a schoolyard bully, the message of a bigoted demagogue and the warmth of a rattlesnake on a winter's day,

    Maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself "why was it even close", if you can't answer that without laying the entire blame on Hillary, then you are complicit.


    i do (none / 0) (#93)
    by linea on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 08:59:25 PM EST
    I don't think Comey had anything to do (#89)
    by McBain
    with Trump's win.

    i do. i was driving to work and listening to npr when i head the anouncement. i was shocked and had no reason to disbelieve that this wasn't a legitimate concern from federal investigators and disturbed by the alledged weiner nexus.

    The Comey Letter Probably Cost Clinton The Election


    The question is: (2.00 / 1) (#109)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 01:32:04 PM EST
    Why was the race so close in the first place? Blaming Comey's letter for Hillary's loss can be, easily negated by, "Why did Hillary ignore Wisconsin?"

    As a football fan I consider all these excuses similar to the example of the #1 football team in the country losing to the worst team in the country.....by one point, and, blaming the loss on an official's "bad call." If they had been stomping the bad team by 40 points (like they should have)the official's bad call wouldn't have mattered at all.


    Not really fair (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 01:39:54 PM EST
    If Hillary had spent more time in Wisconsin and even won it, so what?  

    She lost Pa--by more than she lost Michigan and Wisconsin--combined, I think.  And she spent a lot of time in Pa.  I think she got more Pa votes than Obama....I think they got every vote they could out of Pa.....Not fair to place so much blame on Hillary.    

    Democrats always blame the candidate who loses....Maybe there are other reasons.....


    I guess you were thinking that, the (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 02:31:19 PM EST
    GOP candidate being doltish Don, Hillary should have won with a significant margin of victory, but those huge margins haven't been in evidence for quite some time.

    This may help.

    Obama in 2008 only won by 7.27%; in 2012 it was down to 3.86%.  You have to go back to Reagan to find a margin that is remotely significant.

    The Comey letter was a factor - it wasn't the only reason she didn't win, but 12 days before the election, you can clearly see in the polls what kind of effect it had - and that she never recovered - she didn't have time to recover.  So, to use your football analogy, she scores in the first quarter, manages to stay ahead in the second, loses some ground in the third.  She is up by a field goal in the fourth quarter, and all she has to do is stop the other team and get the ball back.  With the clock winding down, and the other team in 3rd and long, her team gets called with pass interference, and the ball is spotted on the 2-yard line.  Other team scores, kicks off, but her team's attempt to run it back to get good field position ends at their own 10 yd line.  Twenty seconds on the clock to drive 90 yards to maybe get 6 points and win, but the clock runs out.  Game over.

    If she'd scored more points early, she'd have a cushion.  No penalty late, and they get the ball back and run out the clock to win.  If-if-if.  

    And absolutely no guarantee that if she'd spent more time in Wisconsin, that would have made the difference.

    Maybe she spent too much time on an anti-Trump message instead of a pro-Dem message.  I think she clearly misread the mood of the country, didn't realize that being "better" than Trump seemed elitist and entitled.  

    It was a lot of things and it was no one thing.  But to ignore the effect of the Comey letter is, I think, kind of silly.


    Nice football analogy (none / 0) (#112)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 02:33:58 PM EST
    That's just (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Nemi on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 06:13:08 AM EST
    such a lazy, uninformed meme to repeat over and over and over. For starters

    Whenever a Democrat says, "Hillary lost because she didn't campaign in Wisconsin!" I cringe, because upwards of 200,000 Wisconsinites were purged from the polls this year, many of them in Milwaukee, a city containing 70% of the state's black population. Hillary's share of the black vote there decreased by 13% in comparison to Obama's in 2012, and many students were deemed ineligible without voter IDs. Had these laws not been in place, she would've won the state handily.

    As an analogy fan (none / 0) (#116)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 07:43:41 PM EST
    ... I consider that one ridiculous, on many levels.

    One thing (none / 0) (#122)
    by ragebot on Sat Sep 16, 2017 at 09:16:25 PM EST
    Trump did do that Clinton did not do was stand on his own two feet.  Not one mention so far about her collapse on 9/11 in NYC caught on video when she was literally dragged into her van.  The video went viral and contributed to the idea that Trump was  healthier than Clinton was.  Combined with other reports about her poor health causing her to wear heavy prescription glasses only confirmed in some folks mind that she was not physically up to the job.  To make matters worse Clinton was diagnosed with pneumonia and took time off in crucial late stages of the campaign to recover.  The Huffington Post tried to put the best face on this incident, but ignoring the fact that a candidate had to be carried, even a short distance, to a vehicle and then needed medical attention to deal with pneumonia is just plain silly.

    Not saying this was the only thing that hurt Clinton's chances, but I have to wonder why no one has mentioned it so far.  Seems like something I would put high on the list of factors.


    Greetings from the not so fabulous (5.00 / 9) (#123)
    by fishcamp on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 02:51:04 PM EST
    Florida keys.  Electricity, air conditioning and football just came on.  Yay...I'm back and alive.  Our electrical guys were from Wisconsin.  Many very helpful people in America.  We did have some looters, but they got caught.  Will have some stories soon.  Still way too much to do.  Hopefully they will let my Cuban cleaning lady down here tomorrow from Homestead.  Lotta heavy profiling going on.   Starving here...back soon.  xoxo

    Great to see a first-person post from you! (5.00 / 3) (#125)
    by Anne on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:28:44 PM EST
    Can't even imagine the reality of what you and many others have been coping with, but glad to hear you are getting back some of the basics.

    There seem to be a number of tropical storms lining up across the Atlantic; fingers crossed there's no further damage anywhere.

    If you know of some specific things you aren't getting that we could in any way help with, I hope you won't hesitate to let us know.


    Hope your cleaning lady's name is not (none / 0) (#132)
    by ragebot on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 08:49:53 AM EST

    Not sure what is happening with the wave behind her but  yesterday the harbor master at my marina said we dodged one bullet, hope we don't have to dodge any more.

    Keep safe.  In BKH they are warning to stay out of the water due to high bacteria level, worse than red tide.


    Hurricane Maria (none / 0) (#133)
    by fishcamp on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 05:28:23 PM EST
    is on it's way and hurricane Lee is behind it.  Hopefully these storms will turn north like good hurricanes and miss us.  Funny my cleaning lady's name is Mayra.  Hopefully Mayra can get here and Maria can't.  

    DOJ won't bring charges against the (none / 0) (#12)
    by McBain on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 04:41:11 PM EST
    officers in the Freddie Gray case.

    No surprise there.

    Three officers were acquitted at trial. Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby dropped the remaining state cases...

    Five officers face internal disciplinary trials, scheduled to begin Oct. 30.

    No surprise at all (none / 0) (#27)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 07:20:35 PM EST
    Given that federal civil rights criminal violations are extremely difficult - and civil rights are more of a punchline for this administration.

    I would expect this current (none / 0) (#58)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 09:27:33 AM EST
    DOJ will not file charges against any police officers anywhere for the duration of the current administration. It free passes for LEOs nationwide.

    a Florida mind-set (none / 0) (#14)
    by leap on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 04:58:54 PM EST
    This is a funny bit of insight/dialogue about why some stay put during hurricanes. Definitely a personality type. Such as:

    ...If I die in this (I won't), but if I do, tell people I went saving manatees, not the truth that I was drinking bourbon.

    In the past authorities wouldn't allow residents (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:22:41 PM EST
    Back in for days and days after a hurricane. This past mindset kept many from signing up for Irma evacuation.  The history of those in power worked against them with the Conch Republic. Would I easily leave everything I'm financially responsible for when they've dragged their feet so horribly in the past allowing me back home?

    I think they know that their past mindset has now encouraged Key dwellers to not evacuate. They are very quick getting residents back to their homes and businesses today and stating this is their first mission.


    Hooray!!! (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:13:04 PM EST
    And thank you Jeralyn

    My thanks, too (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Towanda on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 06:48:29 PM EST
    for the good news re fishcamp, and to all of the TLers in FL keeping us updated.

    The news is not so good for some social-media friends, from another group, all faculty, in the Caribbean.  One in the Virgin Islands has lost almost everything -- probably including her job, as the campus is a wreck -- and we have yet to hear from some others.


    Nooooo! (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 07:12:36 PM EST
    I'm in a certain mindset. Josh did transfer schools his senior year. Spring Brook is wonderful. His career teacher helps those who want to go to college sell themselves. A phenom of a man. With this guy at Josh's side I have no idea where he'll be accepted and for what price. The man is driven.

    We are going to the college convention in Boston though. Every college matters in a parents mind when you're 11 months out. Very blessed with Montgomery County Public school system though. UBER blessed.

    But a campus lost? Terrible news. Josh is applying to Toronto too, because go places and do things.


    I'm so glad (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 08:38:47 PM EST
    that Josh is doing well in his new school. It really sounds like moving to Maryland has been a good thing for the entire family. I would guess the only downside would be the grandchildren still in Alabama but maybe your daughter will decide to move towards that way.

    If he is considering Canada, McGill University (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 09:33:27 PM EST
    is a pretty good school.

    McGill is excellent (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by Towanda on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 11:35:42 PM EST
    in many fields. And ohhhh, to live in Montreal, my favorite city.

    welcome to Boston (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by CST on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 09:03:59 AM EST
    Hope you enjoy it, let me know if you want any advice/suggestions.  It's probably the nicest time of year here right now.  I didn't apply to any schools in Massachusetts because like Josh I wanted to go places and do things that weren't at home, but I hear we have some pretty good schools.

    I second the recommendation about McGill if you are looking at Canada, while Montreal for me comes second to Quebec City it's still a great city and an excellent school.

    I guess I'd just warn for all these places he should be prepared for winter.


    Our turn around is quick (none / 0) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 12:33:38 PM EST
    Sadly not enough time to get to enjoy Boston yet. We are missing our extended family there doing a quick turn around also for the Notre Dame game.

    One thing I'll say (none / 0) (#68)
    by CST on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 12:59:58 PM EST
    Is if he's hoping for a good college-sports town this isn't it.  Unless he's really into hockey. There will probably be more ND fans in town than BC fans for this game.

    It's a college town but professional sports rule the day.


    game are the SAT/ACT scores. Sure, the other stuff can  come into play, but the test scores are the main thing.

    Not if you are asian, apparently! :-( (none / 0) (#31)
    by vml68 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 09:31:06 PM EST

    i don't understand (none / 0) (#33)
    by linea on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 10:16:08 PM EST
    Not if you are asian, apparently! :-(

    is josh part ethnic-asian american? i agree that americans of part asian-ethnicity suffer an insidiousness questioning their 'nationality' that never seems to end; generation after generation.


    I understood vml68 to be suggesting (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Peter G on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 11:18:46 PM EST
    that Asian-Americans score disproportionately high on college-admission standardized tests but are subjected to a quota system that keeps "too many" of them from being accepted at any particular university or college. The comment had nothing directly to do with MT's Josh.

    oh (4.00 / 1) (#35)
    by linea on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 11:25:18 PM EST
    i'm sorry (2.00 / 1) (#36)
    by linea on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 11:34:31 PM EST
    Now, Irma damage in Atlanta. (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Towanda on Tue Sep 12, 2017 at 11:38:47 PM EST
    where my nephew's car was totaled by downed trees.

    Fortunately, it was parked, and he was not in it.

    But he's a grad student who didn't budget for this. . . .


    What part (none / 0) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 03:39:06 AM EST
    of town does your nephew live in? Up where I am losing power was mostly the worst thing that happened. However Marietta and south seemed to get hit harder with a lot of downed trees.

    feministing.com (none / 0) (#40)
    by linea on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 12:40:00 AM EST
    has DeVos even read the guidance she's revoking?

    DeVos misleadingly claims the guidance requires schools to deny accused students a fair investigation process. To be clear, I agree (just like Title IX activists everywhere) that school discipline must be impartial, procedurally robust, and fair to all parties. But I don't believe for a second that the "Grab `Em By the Pussy" Administration is going to build a system that's fair to both accused students and gender violence survivors - especially when DeVos' speech included some highly misleading statements about the Dear Colleague Letter.

    I read the Dear Colleague Letter (none / 0) (#44)
    by McBain on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 10:33:59 AM EST
    and didn't find much that supports the rights of the accused.  Can you point something out that does?  The author of the article you linked to didn't really do that.

    i'm sorry (none / 0) (#48)
    by linea on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 07:25:15 PM EST
    i posted the link to the article so that those interested may read. it was not trying to continue the debate from the previous open thread.

    Coloradoans, you are so lucky! (none / 0) (#46)
    by Towanda on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 03:51:27 PM EST
    You now can enjoy "the finest of cuisine down by Wisconsin" here, dere, ain'a, at the new Wally's Tavern in Denver -- brought to you by a boy from Sheboygan, Bratwurst Capital of the World, who began his culinary career working da ubiquitous Friday fish fry at a supper club.  

    (Sorry that I can't make embedding work for the url, but you can find the story on jsonline.com -- and see another story about the continued popularity of ye olde supper clubs here, too.)

    But you dassn't come here and call cheese curd batter "tempura." I guess that you will have to come down by here to get authentic beer batter . . . which goes so well with bratwurst marinated in beer (especially if by the dozens, in a garbage can), y'know.

    I of course (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 07:37:53 AM EST
    had heard of cheese curds but never tasted them until I visited a friend in Ohio. Delicious!

    Poutine!!! (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 12:26:17 PM EST
    I understand (none / 0) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 12:42:55 PM EST
    it is quite delicious. I guess I might try it one day if I'm ever somewhere that offers it and I can get over its unappetizing appearance.

    I thought it would be awful (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 08:02:14 PM EST
    Until I actually ate it I could not fancy it

    Pharma-Bro ordered to jail... (none / 0) (#47)
    by desertswine on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 05:56:26 PM EST
    I can't understand it, he's such a nice guy.

    Sept 13 (Reuters) - A U.S. judge on Wednesday ordered Martin Shkreli to be jailed while he awaits sentencing for securities fraud, citing a Facebook post in which the former drug company executive nicknamed the "Pharma Bro" offered a $5,000 reward for a strand of Hillary Clinton's hair.

    The Aryan Brotherhood (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 07:34:19 PM EST
    ...just raised the price of protection by 5000%

    Can someone explain to me (none / 0) (#53)
    by Peter G on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 08:42:40 AM EST
    what is the twisted logic behind the joke (or whatever) of Shkreli saying he wants a strand of HRC's hair with follicle to do DNA testing? Testing for what purpose? What conspiratorial or other anti-Clinton theory does this relate to? I'm baffled.

    I think he was more or less forced to (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 09:12:28 AM EST
    claim he was joking, because he was accused of encouraging violence against Clinton by putting out a reward for strands of her hair.

    Now, the reason he said he wanted the sample was to compare it to the one he claims to already have, so that he could confirm the "interesting" thing(s) the sample he allegedly has supposedly reveals about her.

    All very vague and non-specific, and possibly just more attention-getting nonsense, but as we know, there is no shortage of people who hate Clinton enough to take on that mission in the hope there was something to it.

    Something tells me this guy is going to keep lawyers busy for some years to come.


    Chalk (none / 0) (#57)
    by FlJoe on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 09:21:16 AM EST
    it up to a symptom of advanced affluenza.

    Would I be joking if I hoped that ... (none / 0) (#96)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 15, 2017 at 02:20:26 AM EST
    ... Pharma Bro becomes Big House bunkbuddy Bubba's bodacious buttboy?

    Try to say that three times really fast.



    He was previously pushing (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 10:27:52 AM EST
    ... a conspiracy theory about her taking a drug for a neurological disease (you can Google for specifics - I won't post them).  I'm assuming he wants hair for testing his loony CT, but I wouldn't pretend to know how a twisted mind like his works.

    Started watching the latest Netflix true crime (none / 0) (#50)
    by McBain on Wed Sep 13, 2017 at 08:26:55 PM EST
    documentary, The Confession Tapes.  Two episodes in, it's not as addictive as Making a Murderer or The Keepers but it's still interesting.  

    Hopefully the general public will eventually understand that sometimes people confess to crimes they don't commit.  I don't think I would do that now but maybe when I was younger and didn't understand that law enforcement can lie to you to get what they want.

    What I still don't understand is why some of these obviously coerced confessions, like the one in Making a Murderer, are admissible in court?

    I started watching it too before (none / 0) (#54)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 09:05:20 AM EST
    I lost power. Really want to get back to it. I didn't even make it through the first episode, but it was maddening. The police tactics are so familiar after you see so many of these stories.

    I guess the Mr. Big tactic isn't allowed in US (none / 0) (#63)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 10:59:28 AM EST
    but because it was carried out by Canadian cops it was somehow allowed in court.  

    They're baaack (none / 0) (#52)
    by CST on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 08:20:47 AM EST
    "The organizers of last month's free speech rally say they're planning another get-together for the fall."

    Apparently they didn't learn the last time, that when you have a "free speech" rally, you aren't the only ones entitled to free speech, the entire city can show up to oppose you and exercise their own first amendment rights as well.

    I highly recommend this article if you want a good laugh this morning (you may have to clear your cookies to read it).

    The substance of the whole "debate" on the actions of the counter-protesters is here though:

    "Make sure everyone knows that the rally is about free speech, and the fact that all the speakers are obvious right-wing extremists is merely coincidental.

    It can be hard to carry on inane arguments over the dull roar of 40,000 marching in opposition to your dumb event. After all, is speech really free if nobody is paying attention to what you're saying? (Hint: yes.)"

    Nothing says fall with leaves crushing underfoot (none / 0) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 14, 2017 at 12:21:18 PM EST
    Like a torch carrying parade

    Football sounds great (none / 0) (#124)
    by MKS on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 02:59:10 PM EST
    Profiling, not so much.

    You must have seen a lot....

    Couldn't really see much Howdy, (none / 0) (#126)
    by fishcamp on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 05:49:53 PM EST
    with the hurricane shutters up and the little peek throughs were covered in Mangrove leaf bits.  The upstairs master suite deck has a wall around it and has six big drains.  They plugged up and more than 500 gallons of weird salty green water breached the doors and came flooding down the spiral staircase.   Was kind of dreaming of waterfalls, but snapped awake realizing I didn't have a waterfall.  I did right then.  

    After firing up my trusty Honda generator and heavy duty water extractor vacuum, I extracted water for two days.  I knew this would be a wet one so I rented the water vac the day before the storm.  My cat was standing on my JBL Studio Monitors which were up on the coffee table instantly.  They weigh 65 lbs.  Amazing what adrenaline will do.  BTW Nicks Gym roof is gone.  Lots of stuff is just gone.  The few remaining leaves on our luxurious trees are dead but don't realize it yet.  I can almost see Africa.


    So good to hear from you, fishcamp. (none / 0) (#127)
    by caseyOR on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 06:37:18 PM EST
    And I am so glad your damage was, relatively speaking, not awful.

    I think I speak for many, if not all, TLers when I say we await your stories of Hurricane Irma and her aftermath.


    And I second Anne's request (none / 0) (#128)
    by caseyOR on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 06:38:56 PM EST
    that you let us know if there is anything you need that we might be able to get to you.

    Thank you for your kind words. (none / 0) (#130)
    by fishcamp on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 08:38:53 PM EST
    There aren't a lot of stories to tell other than disaster and terrible messes all along the highway. The additional police, phone and electric workers and the military presence is quite amazing.  Today at Publics Mkt. I spoke with five cops from Pensacola who came to help.  They each bought an entire roasted chicken for lunch.  Big guys.  They were helping at the Turtle Hospital and the many dolphin show locations.  Richi the turtle guy has saved thousands of turtles.  Great guy.  Used to fish all the tournaments, but then so did I.

    Tomorrow I need to find a dentist since I lost a molar when Irma first hit.  Great timing.  It has never hurt, thankfully, but I need a temporary tomorrow.  I'll have loads of hurricane dental stories by evening.


    If it doesn't hurt (none / 0) (#131)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Sep 17, 2017 at 11:28:36 PM EST
    It may mean the root is dead (which is a plus, in my view, although I'm not a dentist). Like having had a root canal without the pain.

    Today I found out my tooth (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by fishcamp on Mon Sep 18, 2017 at 05:38:34 PM EST
    had previously had a root canal, so I could just leave it and look more keys authentic with missing teeth.  I'm telling you, the torture never stops.

    Gawd... root canals.. (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by desertswine on Tue Sep 19, 2017 at 12:36:06 PM EST
    don't get me started.

    re: root canals (none / 0) (#136)
    by linea on Tue Sep 19, 2017 at 08:11:45 PM EST
    and braces. i don't understand (from what co-workers tell me) how families with several children afford dental care for their kids even when both parents are fully employed. the single dental option that employers offer isn't adequate.

    i've stated this before; ALL CHILDREN  should be covered under medicaid/medicare (national coverage of children) for medical care and dental care. it just makes me so angry that this isn't the case!!


    You make payments (none / 0) (#137)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 19, 2017 at 08:40:13 PM EST
    Most orthodontists have payment plans

    Is that the (none / 0) (#138)
    by ragebot on Wed Sep 20, 2017 at 02:16:19 PM EST
    Turtle Hospital in Marathon.  They are really good peeps.  One of the best vids I have made is of a release of Patti the turtle.  Until I made this vid I did not know that turtles don't always swim, sometimes they simply "run" on the bottom kicking up little puffs of sand.

    Excellent video ragebot, (none / 0) (#139)
    by fishcamp on Thu Sep 21, 2017 at 02:43:39 PM EST
    and I'm in it somewhere in the lineup.  Richi the turtle man and I meet for breakfast to talk of old times in the keys and I stopped in to see her in the huge rehab pool a few times.  Patti the turtle knew that she was going to be released, and you can see her getting excited.  Great coverage of her swimming away very fast.  Wish we had drones and Go Pros back when I was filming ski races since I was always the guy that had to ski the downhill courses holding a camera in my hand...a big camera.

    Technology is improving but (none / 0) (#140)
    by ragebot on Thu Sep 21, 2017 at 09:07:11 PM EST
    I still think there is a lot of FUD about RC platforms.  That raw footage was taken using an older Inspire 1 which has a flight time of maybe 18-20 minutes; or even less in stiff winds on the day of the shoot.  I was a little back in one of the tiki huts at the park.  There was another guy there with a Phantom who was trying to shoot but gave up due not only to the wind but also because his battery ran down due to the delay. I ran through four batteries waiting and when I went to the Turtle Hospital van I was told the delay was due to Patti biting one of the handlers who had to get medical attention before the release.  

    As you note you are there someplace, but no one in the vid is recognizable.  If I recall I was flying around 50 feet and there are vids on youtube where a Phantom takes off with a split screen showing the altitude and the pilot in the field of view.  At around 30 feet the only thing you can tell is the pilot is a fat white guy.  The camera an most RC platforms (that cost less than six figures) are similar to smart phone cameras in terms of the lens they have.  Once you get across the street you really can't see anything.

    By the by I have been keeping up with what is going on and hope to get back to the Keys by Thanksgiving if there are no late season hurricanes.  But the city marina at Boot Key is still not fully functioning and there is no real hard date for full recovery.  Not sure if you have seen the NOAA pix but you can zoom in and see just how bad it is in the Keys.


    Thanks ragebot, you can see my house (none / 0) (#141)
    by fishcamp on Sat Sep 23, 2017 at 11:40:18 AM EST
    on Sapodilla Drive at the southern end of Islamorada.  Mine has a white roof next to a big blue roof and a brown one on the other size.  Can't see my little bonefish skiff under the rat tree, but the rats know it's there.  It's difficult to find streets unless you know the layout.  I'm on a peninsula about 200 yards from the highway.  Channel two and five bridges are just a couple of miles south of me.  After crossing the very high channel five bridge you are traveling west instead of south.  Kinda confusing.