Saturday Open Thread

Donald Trump didn't make the G2 meeting on Africa today. Ivanka took his place.

The first daughter was spotted slipping into Trump's seat at a working session on “Partnership with Africa, Migration and Health,” putting her shoulder to shoulder with British Prime Minister Theresa May. Russian President Vladimir Putin was sitting one seat down.

The protests in Germany over the G-20 meetings have been huge.

Iraqi troops finally defeated ISIS in Mosul.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Nikki Haley says: (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by desertswine on Sat Jul 08, 2017 at 03:05:04 PM EST
    "I think she sees herself as part of a public servant family, and she doesn’t want to waste this time by not putting forward some effort to try and help the world."
    "And so, I think that’s what she’s doing is fighting for small businesses in our country, fighting for women entrepreneurs, fighting to make sure that we are not only being just good with the United States, but we’re also internationally doing our part, whether it’s poverty or famine or whether we see it’s migration, and so those are the things I think that she’s working on, and I think she’s been very well accepted nationally and internationally."

    This is crazy talk.  Obviously, Haley has rented a condo in Trump's colon.  The bullsh!t never stops.

    she is running (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 08, 2017 at 04:25:07 PM EST
    in 2020.  i think thats what she is doing.  working hard to keep enough space between her and the crazy without losing the crazy vote.  a delicate dance.  i doubt she is that light footed.

    Aaaaa... I just get so p-o'ed... (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by desertswine on Sat Jul 08, 2017 at 05:41:46 PM EST
    at the idiocy.

    did ya ever think (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 08, 2017 at 05:49:07 PM EST
    we would see the government of our youth as the good ole days?

    Proud take be an amurkan (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 08, 2017 at 06:18:23 PM EST
    President Trump, in the meantime, stands ready to be turned into a footnote on the international circuit once more, and this time in actual writing. The final communiqué this afternoon pits 19 other G20 countries that consider the Paris Agreement to be "irreversible" against him.
    And the president's team didn't exactly smooth things over when they insisted on adding the threat that the US will "work together" with other member states in order to help them access "fossil fuels more cleanly and efficiently."

    Environmental activists are happy that "the isolation of the United States is becoming visible," but this is not primarily what Merkel was going for. As summit host she was determined to send a strong signal that all other nations would remain loyal to the Paris agreement and worked hard to persuade some of the other nations to stand up to President Trump. Although, another major factor, according to environmental lobbyist Christoph Bals, were "the obvious economic arguments" for continuing to endorse the Paris Agreement.

    Her career is (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 08, 2017 at 06:16:12 PM EST
    dead. She doesn't realize it yet. There is a reason why a lot of Republicans with their eye on the future did not join the Trump administration.

    I hope that's true (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 08, 2017 at 06:19:38 PM EST
    I'm afraid it's not

    Be interested to see (none / 0) (#39)
    by smott on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 05:25:30 PM EST
    If/when she realizes she is Over, unless she gets off the Trump Train ASAP.

    I think there may be still time for her if she bails right away. Dunno.


    Enough of these (none / 0) (#26)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 01:33:58 PM EST
    spokespersons, including Tillerson (what does he know, just because he was in the room).  I am waiting to hear it straight from the horse's (so to say) mouth, or tweet.   Surely up will be down, and vice versa.  

    That's just great! (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 08, 2017 at 06:18:35 PM EST
    Ivanka could show them all how to make champagne popsicles.

    I fear that we're trapped in a cosmic moment where Warhol collaborates with Fellini, with the soundtrack scored by David Lynch.


    New Q poll... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by desertswine on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 02:25:00 AM EST
    What is the first word that comes to mind when you think of Donald Trump?

    The first word I think of is a--hole, but it doesn't seem to have been on the list.

    It was there! Came in 11th (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 10, 2017 at 07:31:03 AM EST
    These are just the top section, with the number of people that used the word. I waver between 'jerk' and 'jackass', neither of which made the list at all.

    idiot         39
    incompetent   31
    liar          30
    leader        25
    unqualified   25
    president     22
    strong        21
    businessman   18
    ignorant      16
    egotistical   15
    asshole       13
    stupid        13
    arrogant      12
    trying        12
    bully         11

    How about (none / 0) (#51)
    by Lora on Mon Jul 10, 2017 at 02:57:17 PM EST

    Psychopath (none / 0) (#52)
    by fishcamp on Mon Jul 10, 2017 at 03:24:45 PM EST
    25 people called him a leader? (none / 0) (#53)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 10, 2017 at 04:02:47 PM EST
    Of what?  The He-Man Woman-Haters Club?  

    "Repulsive" about covers it for me - on a number of levels.


    It doesn't surprise me, Anne. (none / 0) (#54)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 10, 2017 at 05:54:27 PM EST
    According to a new Pew Research Center poll, 58% of Republicans now think that colleges are bad for the country. And 49% of Republicans admire Vladimir Putin and think of Russia as an ally. The GOP is collectively going off the deep end.

    Taking a leave of absence (5.00 / 6) (#17)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 10:11:30 AM EST
    ...from my favorite political discussion group.

    Off to UK to ride mountain bikes and plug the book with a lecture tour.  Back in about three weeks.  Stay safe and watch out for the ad hominems and the strawmen.

    Stay safe (none / 0) (#19)
    by jmacWA on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 10:42:35 AM EST
    AND have fun

    Have a good time... (none / 0) (#23)
    by desertswine on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 12:57:00 PM EST
    if it ain't fun, it ain't nothin'.

    Have fun. (none / 0) (#43)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 06:11:39 PM EST
    We look forward to hearing all about it on your return. Britain in summertime sounds wonderful.

    "The G20 became the G19 as it ended." (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 03:41:31 PM EST
    "There is a tendency among some hopeful souls to confuse the speeches written for Mr. Trump with the thoughts of the man himself. He did make some interesting, scripted, observations in Poland about defending the values of the West. And Mr. Trump is in a unique position -- he is the one man who has the power to do something about it. But it is the unscripted Mr. Trump that is real." (Emphasis is mine.)

    Australian journalist Chris Uhlmann's quietly devastating analysis of President* Trump's performance in Hamburg deserves serious consideration by any and all Americans who value the opinions of our country's closest and staunchest allies.


    Imagine Hillary Clinton (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by smott on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 05:29:22 PM EST
    Wandering aimlessly as we've seen Trump lately....unable to find a limo directly in front of him as he wobbles down the steps from AF1... Sitting at the table as all other heads of state get up and move away....

    Given the wank-fest we endured when Clinton got pneumonia...the press' carefully ignoring startling symptoms of confusion/dementia/sun downing /whathaveyou is truly amazing.

    Better that Trump doesn't show up. (none / 0) (#3)
    by fishcamp on Sat Jul 08, 2017 at 05:19:32 PM EST

    "G20 Welcome 2 Hell" protests (none / 0) (#10)
    by linea on Sat Jul 08, 2017 at 07:19:11 PM EST
    the black-hooded anarchists and antifa (anti fascist action - communists) were once again; smashing windows, looting, using flares to light fires, destroying cars, assaulting people, throwing bottles and bricks at police, and attacking police with iron bars. the police used water-cannons and tear gas.

    Okay (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Jul 08, 2017 at 09:08:23 PM EST
    Was there some aspect of this that you wanted to discuss?

    i dont understand (none / 0) (#14)
    by linea on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 12:19:41 AM EST
    jeralyn posted:"The protests in Germany over the G-20 meetings have been huge."

    i posted that the anarchists and antifa are once again being violent and destructive (and ruining peaceful protests).


    linea, were those the majority (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 03:19:59 PM EST
    of protesters? I haven't read that. I saw thousands of people peacefully marching. Your comment is offensive to all those who peacefully protested. If you think you are going to take the place of the few posters here were banned a month ago, you'll end up just like them: banned permanently. No one here wants to read right wing crap.

    ok, that's fair (none / 0) (#36)
    by linea on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 03:38:44 PM EST
    i'll put "anarchist/antifa" on my list of topics to not post on. you told me not to post on "isis/al-qaeda/al-nusra" because i conflate them - and i haven't posted on those threads since. i dont mind being told that.

    but it is all over the news. google "g20 protests." but i wont post on it. i just hate them so much when they destroy things in seattle during the may day parades.


    linea, it's not an uncommon practice for ... (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 06:07:42 PM EST
    ... the ruling establishment to seek to parlay the disreputable tactics of a relative handful of malcontents into a public perception that it's something much worse, as a means to attempt to discredit the political opposition.

    I remember when the Seahawks won the NFL Super Bowl a few years ago, which brought sizable and exuberant crowds out into the streets of Seattle that evening in celebration of the hometown team's championship triumph.

    Fox News that very same night attempted to convey to their own biased viewers the impression that anarchists had somehow taken over this admittedly very liberal city, by showing video footage of a handful of dimwitted punks lighting a dumpster ablaze, all of which was obtained from multiple and divergent camera angles, which all simultaneously recorded the same scene.

    It was a calculated (if entirely ham-handed) effort by that right-wing network to otherwise deceive and mislead people into believing that liberal Seattle had devolved into an urban hellhole consumed by chaos -- which, of course, further implied that the city's elected officials are inherently incapable of responsible governance.

    And no doubt, it probably worked like a charm on a sizable percentage of Fox News' generally gullible audience, most of whom are already predisposed to hear only what they want to hear and disregard the rest.

    Given the mindset of those who control our media, that is likely what is happening here. Conversely, the leftist government in Venezuela is currently doing the same exact thing to their conservative opponents, using that country's own state-run media to discredit them as rioters and looters.

    Jeralyn is simply requesting that you be more skeptical about what you see on television and the internet, and to not merely accept the media's coverage as gospel. Oftentimes, reality and truth are far more complex than someone's biased take, and can even be the opposite of what we've otherwise been led to believe.



    ok, thank you (none / 0) (#47)
    by linea on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 06:50:10 PM EST
    it's true. my research was watching all the videos at the top of the google page.

    deceive and mislead people into believing that liberal Seattle had devolved into an urban hellhole consumed by chaos

    that's pretty funny!! seattle is awesome actually.


    And what was Ms. Trump wearing (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 08, 2017 at 09:10:37 PM EST
    when she slipped into DT's seat?  Not power red. A pink dress with a huge bow on each sleeve.

    She sure looked happy (5.00 / 6) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 08, 2017 at 09:18:20 PM EST
    And why not.  Not many people can go from schlock fashion accessories to acting Secretary of state in one move.

    Or, standing in (none / 0) (#20)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 10:47:28 AM EST
    for the guy was is acting as president. Unlike Ivanka's pink presidential dress,  Melania's colorful dress, in which she appeared in Poland, contrasted nicely with the white nationalist rant of her husband.

    i never heard of power red (none / 0) (#15)
    by linea on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 12:33:24 AM EST
    this pink dress? it looks fine to me. but almost everthing i own is black.

    her roots are showing. but i suppose if you pay $1100 for cut-n-color you tend to not do it as often.


    The "roots showing" (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by MKS on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 10:54:46 AM EST
    is the new thing.....it is somehow stylish now....That look is created from scratch with a first color of dark, then a second of blonde....some I have been told.

    really? (none / 0) (#22)
    by linea on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 11:17:27 AM EST
    it's like distressed and ripped/shredded jeans. i wear distressed (cant do shredded) now. but i feel there is some inital uneasiness if you grew up feeling poor.

    popular where i live: younger women dyeing their hair the most hideous grey (often with a few purple, pink, or green highlights).


    What you are calling gray (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 03:12:28 PM EST
    is really silver. I have silver hair given to me my genetics and it's crazy the amount of compliments I get on my hair. This has never happened to me my entire life. Hairdressers have told me people come in wanting their hair the same color as mine. Maybe I should have a green or pink streak put in it too. LOL.

    Think of it this way, (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Zorba on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 03:22:38 PM EST
    Ga.  Nature gave you what a lot of women are paying a lot of money for.

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 06:28:08 PM EST
    and I finally quit fighting nature. I started getting gray hair when I was in college. For years I highlighted my hair and dyed it but then since I had my thyroid removed my hair because dry and was breaking off from the coloring. So I just quit coloring it and have let it go natural.

    true (none / 0) (#45)
    by linea on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 06:43:08 PM EST
    the chemicals are brutal on your hair.

    ... my aunt imparted to me off-handedly in an entirely unguarded moment the wisdom of seeking to age with grace and dignity. Back then, she had become ever more exasperated by the sometimes embarrassing antics of her husband, who in retrospect was likely suffering from male menopause and its accompanying self-perceived loss of masculine virility.

    And so at the time, my uncle was going to some rather absurd lengths in his wardrobe, grooming habits and personal mannerisms / behavior in an effort to prove otherwise to everyone. Sadly but perhaps inevitably, he soon became romantically involved with a much younger woman. He and my aunt ultimately split up just short of their 28th wedding anniversary, which came as a profound shock to this then-16-year-old.

    (40 years later, it still saddens me a little to remember it. I think that's why Beatrice Straight's 5-minute Oscar-winning tour de force as William Holden's betrayed wife in Sidney Lumet's 1976 film "Network" has always struck a powerful chord within me. Given the movie's initial release at the same time when my aunt and uncle first separated, it was like watching art imitate life.)

    Personal appearance and comportment are not some artificial and / or superficial constructs, if only because other people's impressions of us do matter. What looks way cool on a younger person who's aged 20-30 can often look all too incredibly foolish when adopted by someone who's 30-plus years older. As we are both now of a certain age, we've chosen to embrace this time in our lives rather than fight it. Silver hair gives us a distinguished air of seniority which we've no doubt earned.

    But similarly, I can also understand linea's point. When women (and men) much younger than us attempt to look and act much older than they really are, they often wind up appearing rather silly -- or even worse, mocking of one's elders as though oblivious of where they'll likely find themselves several decades hence. Accepting one's own age with grace and dignity is a concept that's equally applicable to anyone, regardless of our own respective stages of life.



    oh! (none / 0) (#41)
    by linea on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 05:32:15 PM EST
    He and my aunt ultimately split up just short of their 28th wedding anniversary, which came as a profound shock to this then-16-year-old.

    you made cry.

    it's like you writing has gotten better or maybe i just like the topics better but i enjoyed your last several topics {{smile}}.


    Personally, I believe that the sooner were come to accept that otherwise unavoidable reality, the happier we're likely to be as we grow older.

    Aging well certainly doesn't mean that we simply allow ourselves to fall apart and go to seed, or to resign ourselves to our fate in anticipation of obtaining some better reward in the great beyond. What's so graceful or dignified about that? As my former boss's husband once quipped to me as he struggled good-naturedly with the onset of Parkinson's disease, "Growing old sure ain't for sissies."

    Rather, aging gracefully allows us to embrace and cherish ourselves and our loved ones at a particular moment in time, while not dwelling excessively or morbidly on any perceived shortcomings of the present or squandered opportunities of the past. By doing so, one comes to understand that indeed, maturity is often as much about our present state of mind, as it is reflective of our current physical being.



    I wish my mother would listen to that. (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Jul 10, 2017 at 08:51:40 AM EST
    She is 82 and exasperatingly vain. She doesn't want to appear "old". She has had both knees replaced and teeters when she walks unaided, yet gets angry when me or my wife insist she bring her cane along when we take her somewhere. She has fallen in the past numerous times and we want her to be safe. I am 58 and walk with a cane. I have for a few years now. It is a stabilizer. She just thinks it makes her looks old. Looking old is better than being on the ground unable to get yourself up.

    Why don't you talk to her doctor, and ... (none / 0) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 10, 2017 at 06:03:32 PM EST
    ... then ask that he or she broach that sensitive subject with your mother? Oftentimes, even though we're clearly middle-aged ourselves, it's hard for our parents to look upon us as anything but their children, and they tend to not appreciate being told what to do by us. Perhaps your mother might better accept such well-meaning advice if it comes from a third party.

    Does she like elegant things? (none / 0) (#56)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 13, 2017 at 01:24:49 PM EST
    Or appreciate art?

    I'm kind of vain like that. I picture my children getting peeved at me over this. But if they found an elegant cane or had a local artist paint one of those horrible hurrycanes for me I might be persuaded.


    NPR to be defunded (none / 0) (#18)
    by linea on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 10:33:04 AM EST
    i just read that npr will be defunded. it is the only radio i listen to but it is also decidedly liberal/democratic-party and seems to me much like govt spending on football stadiums, opera halls, and classical orchestras - which im not enthusiastic about.

    some argue that in rural areas npr is the only counter-balance to right-wing radio. not the best point but interesting. i did learn that npr subsidises native american (first peoples) radio broadcasting incuding lakota language broadcasting. that is something that should be funded.

    Very premature to say NPR (or anything else) (none / 0) (#30)
    by Peter G on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 02:55:27 PM EST
    "will be defunded." That's what the Tr*mp budget proposal suggests. What Congress winds up approving remains to be seen.

    hi peter (none / 0) (#31)
    by linea on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 03:11:21 PM EST
    i dont understand how the voting works. they have both houses of congress but -- best sense i can make of this -- some items require a simple majority vote and some legislation requires more?

    i dont get the sense that crazy republican pet-legislation is getting passed in a wild frenzy to launch the cultural revolution.

    where are the federally funded "noah and the dinozaurs" museums? do the republicans need to get 3 or 6 democratic-party members on board to pass these things?

    thank you.


    I find NPR skews right down the middle... (none / 0) (#24)
    by desertswine on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 01:07:17 PM EST
    in fact slightly conservative for my money.  Here's a list of their stories, right now.

                                                      Mosul Has Been Liberated From ISIS Control, Iraq's Prime Minister Says

    • Facing Cancer Is Even Tougher If The Only Radiation Machine Is Broken
    • Trump Says He Pressed Putin, While Casting More Doubt On Election Meddling
    • Have Israel's Religious Authorities "Blacklisted" 160 Rabbis?
    • While Corals Die Along The Great Barrier Reef, Humans Struggle To Adjust
    • Hot, Dry Madrid Aims For A Cooler, Greener Future
    • For Many, Medicaid Provides The Only Route To Mental Health Care
    • Protesters Surround KKK Gathering In Charlottesville
    • Judge Overturns Utah's 'Ag-Gag' Ban On Undercover Filming At Farms
    • 'G19' Nations Affirm Climate Plan, Acknowledging U.S. Withdrawal

    Yep (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Yman on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 01:23:16 PM EST
    I listen every day, and they are most definitely NOT "decidedly liberal/democratic-party."

    Nice, polite, Repulicans--- (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 02:25:21 PM EST

    Exactly so, (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Zorba on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 03:19:57 PM EST
    Years ago, they were very slightly to the left (not a lot, but moreso than now).
    They're right down the middle now, and sometimes they even seem to have more conservative pundits on than either liberal or middle of the road.

    you're right (none / 0) (#27)
    by linea on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 01:38:17 PM EST
    i guess im thinking of specific shows i sometimes listen to late at night. not the news reporting.

    checking wiki: PBS is funded by the non-profit Corporation for Public Broadcasting which has a board of directors appointed by the u.s. president. CPB was created per the Public Broadcasting Act of 1967.


    Yeah, but (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Peter G on Sun Jul 09, 2017 at 02:53:04 PM EST
    CPB provides only 10% or so of the funding for NPR, and all government funding is roughly 15%.

    What went wrong? (none / 0) (#48)
    by Nemi on Mon Jul 10, 2017 at 06:19:18 AM EST
    From Der Spiegel: Black Friday. Hamburg's G-20 Security Failure:

    Friday, July 7 [...] that morning, a marauding gang was raging through the Hamburg neighborhoods of Ottensen and Altona, setting cars on fire by the dozens. Later in the day, a mob raged for hours in the alternative Schanzenviertel neighborhood, long a hotbed of leftist activity. They broke windows, lit barricades on fire, looted stores and threatened to kill police. Many would later say hyperbolically that it was like "a war zone." Others described the scene as anarchy -- as though the state had receded before the mob.
    [M]any high-ranking officials were skeptical from the very beginning about holding a G-20 summit in a large city like Hamburg. One official predicted "ugly scenes." After all, Hamburg is the center of Germany's far-left autonomous movement. Leftist radicals in the city have access to effective structures and sophisticated logistics.
    Even the prediction by authorities that up to 8,000 potentially violent left-wing extremists could converge on the city did little to deter the decision-makers. "Politicians carry sole responsibility for the numerous police officers who have been injured and for the destruction wrought in the city," says Jan Reinecke, the head of the state chapter of the union that represents Germany's detectives. "Hamburg never should have been the venue for the G-20 summit."

    Emphasis mine.