Another Health Care Setback for Donald Trump

The bully in the oval office lost today. The Senate voted against repealing the Affordable Health Care Act (Obama Care) without a replacement. Also,

On Tuesday night, a version of a repeal and replace plan, called the Better Care Reconciliation Act, failed to overcome a parliamentary objection that the bill had not yet been scored by the Congressional Budget Office.

Here's how they voted

There are a lot of Republican plans in the works. Here's how they compare.

There may be a vote later this week on whatever Republicans settle on. But they are all bad.

< John McCain's Speech to the Senate | Scaramucci Goes Off the Charts With Fuming Tirade >
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    The Republican senators (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 10:03:36 AM EST
    really should know what they are voting on---maybe even read something, anything..about it. Health coverage is easy for those who know nothing about anything, but actually has moving parts. Move one, another moves too, and not in the desired direction.

    The Republicans hate the expansion of Medicaid, but the "Skinny" may lead to, essentially, ....expansion of Medicaid. Because "Skinny" repeals their dreaded mandate.

    Obamacare's individual mandate is geared to produce group-like (broad pool) predictability so as to track and average premiums, based on sick and healthy.

     The "skinny" mandate repeal increases insurer's risk and increases premiums. The CBO estimates an increase in premiums of about 20 percent.  For those eligible for ACA subsidies, the increase in those premiums will be picked up by larger government subsidies.  Those in the exchanges get more government subsidies to offset the increase in premiums.  More, not less government spending.   Those with higher incomes than for traditional Medicaid continue to get subsidies...as with expanded Medicaid.

    However, those with incomes above subsidy-eligibility (middle income) get stuck with paying the higher premiums.  So much higher that they can't afford it, and will have to drop out (CBO, 16 million).

     For these middle income working people, health care becomes Emergency Room.  For hospitals, they are likely to get a bad debt, and smaller ones, will find themselves in trouble, especially the small rural hospitals.

    "Skinny" is more diabolic that it may, at first, seem.  But, loss of insurance for some because of higher premiums and more government spending for subsidies to offset the increase in premiums for working poor, are among the grand features of "Skinny."

    But there is some danger lurking in the (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 12:10:26 PM EST
    skinny repeal strategy:

    Rank-and-file Republican senators are girding themselves to vote for a trimmed-down repeal of Obamacare that pulls out the unpopular individual and employer mandates without touching much of the rest of the program, convinced that the House wouldn't just take their exact bill and send it along to President Trump to sign.

    Their argument is the bill buys them time and acts as an empty vessel for congressional leaders to pour the magic potion of a passable replacement into during a conference between House and Senate leaders. They say the worst-case scenario at that point is that no bill materializes and the effort collapses later instead of this week.


    There's no reason to think a conference committee will have any better luck finding a bill that 50 GOP senators and 218 GOP congressmen can support. At that point, there's a real possibility that whatever the Senate passes would be passed into law by desperate House Republicans before the Senate ever gets to touch it again.

    If the Obamacare repeal debate has proven anything, it's that many GOP lawmakers are a lot more interested in what's politically possible than what's good policy. It's easy to see how passing something, anything, might become the mantra if conference negotiations fall apart, President Trump demands a win while congressional leaders make the "but you promised" argument to reluctant lawmakers. It's what they've been doing from the start.

    Senate leaders are already hinting at that prospect. Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-TX) floated the idea of Republicans just passing the skinny repeal into law and calling it a day Wednesday afternoon, telling reporters, "The House could take up the Senate bill and pass that or they could amend it and send it back."

    Passing a bill that repeals the individual and employer mandates would be nothing short of disaster, which means its chances with Republicans may be better than we think.


    Yes, it's sad (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 01:49:11 PM EST
    but it's all too true, Anne.
    Removing the individual mandate, in particular, would lead to even more healthy people not purchasing health insurance.
    Which would lead to the most expensive people left purchasing health insurance.  Which would inevitably lead to huge increases in the cost of health insurance.
    Of course, we all know what needs to be done.  Universal health care, the way most of the Western countries approach health care.
    We could call it "Medicare For All" and the commercials in favor of this almost write themselves.
    "Does your Granny like her Medicare?  Wouldn't you like to have it, too?"

    to be understood (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by linea on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 11:34:31 PM EST
    Removing the individual mandate, in particular, would lead to even more healthy people not purchasing health insurance.

    i wish folk would realize that NOBODY who can afford healthcare goes without healthcare. high-paid consultants and wealthy businessmen - who dont get company subsidized health-care - pay for healthcare and have healthcare for themselves and their families.

    it is people who cant afford healthcare who dont have healthcare.

    some seem to imply there are 'evil selfish healthy young people' refusing to pay for healthcare. we want healthcare but we dont qualify for a subsidy and thus cant afford healthcare.

    We could call it "Medicare For All"

    yes. that's a very interesting idea. if only we could get the american democratic party to champion such a novel idea.

    i support the democratic party platform on these issues:

    • Ensure the Health and Safety of All Americans
    • Supporting Community Health Centers
    • Reducing Prescription Drug Costs
    • Securing Universal Health Care

    but the platform FAILS without mentioning medicare-for-all.
    in my oponion.

    and (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 10:06:58 AM EST
    a collapse of the entire insurance industry.

    which is why it will not pass.  screw people,  its insurance companies we need to worry about.


    Appears that the House (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 03:38:27 PM EST
    will attempt to make the skinny bill law before the weekend is up if the Senate passes it. No conferencing. Pass it and declare victory. Either Ryan has been lying to the Senate or McConnell has been lying to his fellow Senators

    I think this was (none / 0) (#18)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 03:43:41 PM EST
    the plan.  whatever the senate passed, the House would take it lock, stock and barrel.

    Press Conference in 10 minutes (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 04:03:31 PM EST
    McCain, Graham, and Johnson.

    Could be the death of skinny if they band together.


    You better get out of there pronto, CG, ... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:19:21 PM EST
    ... before all their sanctimonious hot air sucks the oxygen right out of the room.

    Too Late (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:37:53 PM EST
    The hot air exceeded Death Valley levels.

    What do you think the odds are ... (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 06:21:58 PM EST
    ... that all three will find a way to vote for the bill's final passage on Third Reading, regardless of whatever version appears? I'd say it's better than even.

    Watching TV (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 04:18:27 PM EST
    now and McCain and Graham and pretty much saying we can't vote for a blank bill.

    Meanwhile, 20 Republican members of (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 09:19:26 PM EST
    the House Judiciary Committee are calling for the appointment of a new special counsel to investigate Hillary Clinton, James Comey and Loretta Lynch:

    House Republicans call for a second special counsel -- to investigate Clinton, Comey and Lynch

    From the letter:

    "The unbalanced, uncertain, and seemingly unlimited focus of the special counsel's investigation has led many of our constituents to see a dual standard of justice that benefits only the powerful and politically well-connected," the letter said. "For this reason, we call on you to appoint a second special counsel to investigate a plethora of matters connected to the 2016 election and its aftermath, including actions taken by previously public figures like Attorney General Loretta Lynch, FBI Director James Comey, and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton."

    Don't mind me - I'll just be over here in the corner, banging my head on the desk...

    Worst f***ing government that money cay buy. (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by desertswine on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 11:20:07 PM EST
    All bad (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 26, 2017 at 05:31:50 PM EST
    And almost certainties only all dead.

    It's looking more and more that ultimately they will repeal the medical device tax and call that reform because that's all they are going to get.

    Geez (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 26, 2017 at 05:33:02 PM EST

    Might wanna put the pen down Donnie... (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Wed Jul 26, 2017 at 05:45:42 PM EST
    before the little right hand cramps up...it's gonna be awhile before you have papers to sign that you will not have read, attempted to understand, or even mildly contemplated for more than a few fleeting ADD moments.

    There are other things (none / 0) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 26, 2017 at 06:12:23 PM EST
    He could do with that pen

    I could send him a list


    POLITICO (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 26, 2017 at 06:15:33 PM EST
    Yeah (none / 0) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 26, 2017 at 10:13:46 PM EST
    because if you take away the mandate preexisting conditions collapse and the insurance companies are against the mandate removal.

    Because (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:39:59 AM EST
    The insurance market would collapse because only sick people would be in it.

    Skinny could be close (none / 0) (#7)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 26, 2017 at 10:24:53 PM EST
    Going to have to find someone (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 26, 2017 at 10:26:26 PM EST
    other than Murkowski and Collins and not sure who that might be.

    Reportedly some right wingers (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:41:11 AM EST
    Don't like the "skinny" part.

    Although Paul seems onboard


    Heller (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 06:50:11 AM EST
    is in a bad spot with all this.

    If not Heller (none / 0) (#16)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 02:38:46 PM EST
    I'm not sure there is a 3rd. This is a kick the can to keep it alive and I'm looking at 50-50.

    if they are depending on (none / 0) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 04:42:21 PM EST
    assurances and leadership from Ryan.........

    i dont even know how to finish that


    i know one thing (none / 0) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 04:50:09 PM EST
    if they vote yes

    if the house passes it

    that press conference just provided a gold mine of political ads for 2018

    a disaster, a fraud, it will make things worse.  but we did it anyway.


    Pleasant surprise (none / 0) (#20)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 04:17:49 PM EST
    "The `skinny bill' as policy is a disaster." -- Sen. Lindsey Graham.

    It sounds (none / 0) (#22)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 04:27:04 PM EST
    like he doesn't trust the house to not screw over the senate with a bill. And if I were him I would say the same thing.

    But (none / 0) (#23)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 04:28:29 PM EST
    he is going to vote for it, hoping the jackals in the house will make it better...or something.

    How nuts is that (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 04:39:39 PM EST
    3 Senators agreeing to vote for a new law if they get a "verbal" promise that it won't become law.

    When (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 04:56:37 PM EST
    he said this bill is a fraud, he meant this whole process is a fraud and deep down in his heart he know the whole Republican party is a fraud, led by the biggest fraud of all time.

    a disaster (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:01:46 PM EST
    and its also not good for people


    Because a closer look at the map of states where the Obamacare exchanges are already without multiple insurer options is decidedly Republican-dominated. It's filled with red states like Alaska, South Carolina, Wyoming, Arizona, Mississippi, Alabama, and Oklahoma. Not all the GOP senators in those states will resist ending the mandate, but Arizona's Senator John McCain said Tuesday he wasn't ready to vote for any replacement bill and his state's dwindling insurance options could be why. Without McCain alone, the "skinny bill" is doomed, and don't be surprised if a few other Republicans like Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski vote against it too.

    But this isn't just about protecting constituents from losing all their insurance coverage choices. From the beginning, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has put insurance company priorities at the top of his list in this Obamacare replacement process. The one thing he's fought to keep in every bill is some form of subsidies to help Americans buy insurance plans, which is an indirect taxpayer money hand off to the insurance industry.

    Even the "skinny bill" keeps those subsidies in place. But that won't be enough for the insurance companies if the mandate is killed and fewer people are buying insurance. The Obamacare insurance mandate is a clear example of a government-imposed rule meant to boost a private industry; its powerful lobbyists aren't letting go of it easily.

    Throw in the very powerful argument that private health insurance exchanges in several states across the country could disappear in a hurry if the "skinny bill" is passed, and you can see why this measure is already dead on arrival.

    what the hell does this mean (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:10:36 PM EST
    BREAKING: The House has invoked martial law. If the Senate passes skinny repeal, the House can vote on it without notice.

    martial law (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:13:15 PM EST
    House Republicans leaders are instructing lawmakers to hold off leaving for August recess this weekend in case the Senate passes Obamacare repeal legislation and the House comes under pressure to act.

    In an email to lawmakers Thursday, House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), raised the possibility that they might need to take votes in the coming days if the Senate approves a health care bill. House Republicans are also gearing up to waive chamber rules mandating they wait three days after a bill is made public to vote on the legislation on the floor, what's known as "martial law" in the House.

    The latter gives Republicans flexibility to take up the Senate repeal bill immediately.

    Graham (none / 0) (#31)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:17:13 PM EST
    says he'll vote for if it passes the pornography test.

    You can't make this up.

    And if you've read the Scaramucci interview in the New Yorker...then Graham actually sounds almost sane by comparison.


    we live in interesting times (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:26:08 PM EST
    in the chinese sense

    We do (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:27:39 PM EST
    and I'm ready to go back to boring real quick.

    i think its going to be a while (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:56:10 PM EST
    i could not get to the interview (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:27:31 PM EST
    not being a subscriber.  but ive been raeding about it.

    holy hell.

    Trump has found his soul mate


    Try this link, Cap'n. (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 06:15:45 PM EST
    LINK. And if that doesn't work, here's a representative sampling:

    "'They'll all be fired by me,' he said. 'I fired one guy the other day. I have three to four people I'll fire tomorrow. I'll get to the person who leaked that to you. Reince Priebus -- if you want to leak something -- he'll be asked to resign very shortly.' The issue, he said, was that he believed Priebus had been worried about the dinner because he hadn't been invited. 'Reince is a f*cking paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac,' Scaramucci said. He channelled Priebus as he spoke: '"Oh, Bill Shine is coming in. Let me leak the f*cking thing and see if I can c*ck-block these people the way I c*ck-blocked Scaramucci for six months."' (Priebus did not respond to a request for comment.)"


    "Scaramucci also told me that, unlike other senior officials, he had no interest in media attention. 'I'm not Steve Bannon, I'm not trying to suck my own c*ck,' he said, speaking of Trump's chief strategist. 'I'm not trying to build my own brand off the f*cking strength of the President. I'm here to serve the country.' (Bannon declined to comment.)"

    Yep. Real class act, that Tony the Mooch. And if youz guys say anything otherwise to try and c*ck-block him, he'll fire the whole f*cking lot of youz.

    I wonder if Mikey Whitebread, our vice president, asked Mother what he's supposed to think about this guy.



    im seeing Mooch (none / 0) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 06:21:20 PM EST
    walking around the cabinet meeting table with a baseball bat.


    ive gotten most of it.


    That's so Untouchables! (none / 0) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 07:19:08 PM EST
    Where's our Elliot Ness when we need him?

    Graham and McCain (none / 0) (#48)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 08:49:48 PM EST
    received their pornography call from Ryan. Looking more and more like a 50-50 vote to advance it further.

    How recent is this (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 08:54:36 PM EST
    I just heard McCain said whatever Ryan said was not good enough

    Yeah, (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 08:59:31 PM EST
    I just read the same thing though many are not saying how they are going to vote. Like that is going to change an ad by their opponent in 2018.

    All Franken (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 09:02:02 PM EST
    Just said they don't have the votes

    Graham and McCain (none / 0) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 09:38:19 PM EST
    Have gotten personal assurances

    I've read (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 09:01:08 PM EST
    A couple of places (TPM) that Ryan cant really give them an ironclad promise of this.

    I'm not sure why that would but that's what they say.


    TPM (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 09:05:52 PM EST
    House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) issued a statement Thursday asserting the the House is "willing" to keep working on an Obamacare repeal-and-replacement plan, after the Senate passes the so-called skinny repeal, but he had some conditions of his own.

    It's not clear whether Ryan's assurance would be sufficient to convince GOP senators who are reluctant to vote for skinny repeal and risk the House simply passing it, too.


    Full statement (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 09:10:31 PM EST
    It is now obvious that the only path ahead is for the Senate to pass the narrow legislation that it is currently considering. This package includes important reforms like eliminating the job-killing employer mandate and the requirement that forces people to purchase coverage they don't want. Still it is not enough to solve the many failures of Obamacare. Senators have made clear that this is an effort to keep the process alive, not to make law. If moving forward requires a conference committee, that is something the House is willing to do. The reality, however, is that repealing and replacing Obamacare still ultimately requires the Senate to produce 51 votes for an actual plan. The House remains committed to finding a solution and working with our Senate colleagues, but the burden remains on the Senate to demonstrate that it is capable of passing something that keeps our promise, as the House has already done. Until the Senate can do that, we will never be able to develop a conference report that becomes law. We expect the Senate to act first on whatever the conference committee produces. Obamacare is collapsing and hurting American families. We have to keep working at this until we get the job done."

    Release the hostage and I will give you the money.

    Give me the money and I will release the hostage


    Unless something really strange happens (none / 0) (#57)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 09:47:36 PM EST
    between now and midnight (like Capito flipping back to a no), this oddball of a bill is going to pass the Senate.

    Well (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 09:56:33 PM EST
    If it does there are least not going to be able to delay the effects until after the election which was the plan

    They say the sh!t will start hitting the fan in a matter of days.


    et tu Heller? (none / 0) (#59)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 10:07:21 PM EST
    Vote on skinny bill at 12:00 a.m. EDT (none / 0) (#60)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 10:13:53 PM EST
    Enzi speaking now (none / 0) (#61)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 10:42:24 PM EST
    Just stalling....trying to use up his side's one hour of debate time.  Nearly incoherent.....just talking about health care in general.

    Clearly not many GOP Senators want to talk in favor of skinny bill.

    Dems fighting, asking for Enzi to yield to questions--he will not.  Dems have an edge to their voice....Not looking good.


    Ryan will give (none / 0) (#63)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 11:23:17 PM EST
    a Conference. A few minutes, the chamber of deputies, nods..looks good to us.  House adopts. New law.  McCain, LIndsey happy, Ryan kept his word. (Ryan is to truth telling as McCain is to mavericking).

    McCain is holding the line (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by MKS on Fri Jul 28, 2017 at 12:22:50 AM EST
    He is saving Obamacare.

    So they are not going (none / 0) (#32)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:18:47 PM EST
    to go to conference with the bill. Paul Ryan just shot down the few senators who wanted that guarantee.

    And, they will vote for it (none / 0) (#38)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:49:16 PM EST
    anyway.  They have streamlined the means by which they can hurt people.  The grotesqueness of it all will, in large measure, fade from the public consciousness--in Trump-thug-land, there will be so many horrible happenings by the minute, that this process will get buried under it all.  And, the cruelty and, actual, death from this mess becoming law will be covered up for as long as possible (which will not be that long), as Trump is want to do.

    Nope (none / 0) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 05:51:09 PM EST
    won't last for long. The GOP is going to own all the insurance increases in 2018. They can run with them.

    Look, there's a squirrel there! (none / 0) (#42)
    by Erehwon on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 06:21:03 PM EST
    Of course, they won't own up to the insurance increases: "That was all the fault of Obamacare and the Dems didn't cooperate ... if only they had cooperated, there would have no insurance decreases and everyone would have great insurance." And the deplorables will fall for it all over again!

    all i can say is (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 06:23:00 PM EST
    if democrats allow that to happen they deserve to lose

    As long as they (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 27, 2017 at 06:57:32 PM EST
    keep repeating that the GOP controls all three levels of government. I mean even Republicans don't believe that is going to work outside of the deplorables.