Tuesday Open Thread

What a hail storm we had yesterday. This is not snow, but hail.

Time for a new open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Stepped right in it, did ya? (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Repack Rider on Tue May 09, 2017 at 01:08:48 PM EST
    United Airlines goes there again.

    Man has dispute with ticket agent, who wants to charge $300 for luggage on a return trip that cost the passenger $125 on the first flight.

    Passenger video-recorded the exchange, which took place in a public area with other members of the public watching.  IOW there is no expectation of privacy.

    Ticket agent then revokes formerly valid ticket, forcing passenger to fly home on another airline.

    UA spokesperson says this is not company policy, and the company "is investigating."  

    What's to investigate?  Fire the agent.  Then PLEASE find out why UA employees never seem to know what the company policy is.  Maybe the company could release a copy of its policies to the public.

    Is it wrong... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by kdog on Tue May 09, 2017 at 01:52:07 PM EST
    to strongly dislike United and the ways of the airline business, and also dislike the idea of videotaping working stiffs like this?  I don't know, it just seems to be getting out of hand.  

    This isn't an agent of the law with great powers to arrest and use physical force and deny liberty here, it's an overworked and underpaid clerk.  Rubs me the wrong way...I hate being watched while I work, I think it's rude, and never mind videotaping my every move while I work...I'd lose my sh&t too.

    Whatever the details of the baggage charge dispute may be, can't human beings treat each other with basic human dignity anymore?  On both sides of the vendor/customer relationship?

    No argument it was wrong to void the ticket, but I can understand the frustration at being videotaped causing the clerk to lose it.


    Please explain (none / 0) (#3)
    by Repack Rider on Tue May 09, 2017 at 02:48:08 PM EST
    I can understand the frustration at being videotaped causing the clerk to lose it.

    If you are doing business in public, with any number of un-involved witnesses observing, there is no expectation of privacy.  You are representing your employer, who has a right to know how you interact with the public.  A video of the event is a better witness than someone emotionally involved, who might color his or her statement in a self-serving way.

    What if one of the OTHER people standing around decided to record the event?  Would the ticket agent have been justified in voiding a ticket because a video was being made, even if it was not being made by the passenger involved in the dispute?

    It does not take much examination for your argument to fall apart.


    Lies, Damn Lies, and Videotape... (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Tue May 09, 2017 at 03:08:00 PM EST
    Just because there is no "expectation of privacy", legally speaking, doesn't mean it is cool to videotape people without their consent.  Legal vs. Moral & Kind. At least in my book, Repack.  Though I realize that ship has sailed and we are all videotaped dozens of times a day, at work or otherwise, mostly by automation but by human hands as well.  Personally, I find it kinda creepy, and a dickish thing to do. Point your iphone someplace else Spielberg!

    Just because United was wrong (again), don't make the actions of the customer right.  They can both be wrong.  Don't you find it at least a bit rude, as well as childish? That's all I'm trying to say.



    Nope. Still nope. (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Repack Rider on Tue May 09, 2017 at 03:36:38 PM EST
    Don't you find it at least a bit rude, as well as childish?

    Not at all.  The video was made for the same reason we should all record interactions with police, to create an accurate record of the event.  The customer was entitled to DESCRIBE what took place, wasn't he?  The video merely complements a written statement.

    Remember how the police were never liars until there was a video camera in every pocket?  And the presence of a video recorder turned hundreds of them into racists and brutal thugs? The video made them do it!

    You are saying it was the VIDEO that made the agent a jerk.  The agent, like so many police officers, was already a jerk.  The video is just the proof.

    It was in an AIRPORT, where just about every square inch has video surveillance.  Any of the others standing around could have made a video, and if they had, would the agent have been justified in punishing the passenger?


    Police is a different ballgame... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Tue May 09, 2017 at 03:59:25 PM EST
    in my view, as they have great powers to arrest, use physical and sometimes deadly force.  Very different than a ticket clerk for an airline. United Airlines no less, whose low level employees must take more abuse for their corporate overlords than I ever could stomach...and I'm familiar with eating a pile of customer sh&t so my corporate overlords don't have to.  

    I'm not saying for sure the Spielberg routine led to the clerk overstepping...just that it could have.  And regardless, it's just not cool to do unless your literal life or liberty is in danger like when dealing with a cop.

    Then again, I'm not the type to compile a dossier of video evidence to go with my written complaint to an evil corporation over a 300 dollar baggage fee and ticket revocation...even if 300 dollars is a lot of money to my broke-arse, I'm weird like that.  


    How could he revoke a (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 09, 2017 at 04:12:19 PM EST
    valid paid for ticket?

    Looks like some more nice vacation destination flights free from UAL.


    Regardless of whether or not the reason for doing so will eventually be upheld by United Airlines as a valid one, that option was certainly within the check-in agent's discretion, just as it is for the gate agent and flight / cabin crew. That said, airline employees should clearly be more circumspect whenever exercising that option, and not act mercurially out of personal pique or annoyance.

    While customers rarely remember good service unless it's truly a unique and exceptional moment, they will almost always be able to recall in painful detail those times when they've felt disrespected, disregarded or worse by a company employee / representative -- and further, they tend to share that particular shabby experience with their friends and acquaintances. It's the type of public testimonial that nobody in business ever wants to hear about themselves.

    One can ask my mother sometime about how she was treated by American Airlines personnel on a flight from Baltimore to L.A. way back in November 1960, when she had a six-year-old and toddler in tow and was six months pregnant with me. She'll actually turn red while recounting the tale, and she's refused to fly on American ever since.



    Not to be outdone... (none / 0) (#30)
    by Repack Rider on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:46:26 PM EST
    American Airlines turns a first-class ticket held by a Black woman into "back of the plane" seat, while her white companion is seated in First Class.

    AA follows it up by refusing to talk to the Black woman, while answering the same questions asked by her white companion.


    i had forgotten (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 08:36:00 PM EST
    that Sessions is also supposed to be recused from matters relating to the Clinton email stuff,

    Schumer has asked all (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 09:50:36 PM EST
    Democratic senators be in their seats tomorrow morning.

    Let's hope he's going to say they will stop all business until a special prosecutor is appointed.

    It said to be a very unusual request.

    Sounds intriguing (none / 0) (#67)
    by MKS on Tue May 09, 2017 at 09:55:05 PM EST
    Trump actually claims ... (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Yman on Thu May 11, 2017 at 01:42:43 PM EST
    ... he invented the phrase, "prime the pump."

    I kid you not.

    "We have to prime the pump....Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it a couple of days ago."

    Not only is the man a constant, pathological liar, but his lies are often stupid and pointless.

    Trump could (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by KeysDan on Thu May 11, 2017 at 01:56:45 PM EST
    have shared the fame with his friend and co-inventor, Frederick Douglas.  Trump worked on this all through the Bowling Green massacre--non-stop.

    Not for nothing does ... (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 12, 2017 at 05:55:12 PM EST
    ... the inimitable Charles Pierce often refer to the self-propelled empty suit otherwise known as House Speaker Paul Ryan as a "zombie-eyed granny starver." Time and again, Congress's most passionate Ayn Rand devotee and Dickensian socio-economic zealot proves Pierce's point by promoting the nonsensical idea of Social Security and Medicare privatization.

    some people (none / 0) (#155)
    by linea on Sat May 13, 2017 at 08:13:27 PM EST
    need an actual cult de-programming.

    Lawsuit filed in youth mob BART robbery (2.00 / 1) (#79)
    by McBain on Wed May 10, 2017 at 04:34:50 PM EST
    Three members of a Dublin family who were beaten and robbed by a mob of teenagers at BART's Coliseum station in Oakland last month have filed a $3 million claim against the transit agency accusing it of failing to protect its passengers....
    .... BART officials said a mob of 40 to 60 young people streamed onto a Dublin-bound train at the Coliseum at about 9:30 p.m. on April 22 and committed at least seven robberies and injured at least two people.

    Lots of bad behavior in this bizarre event. Political correctness has prevented BART from showing video of the event to the public to help identify the criminals.

    I've been to this BART station many times. The parking lot can be a little sketchy but I always felt safe once in the train.  

    Comey is an a**h*** (none / 0) (#6)
    by Cashmere on Tue May 09, 2017 at 03:44:13 PM EST
    Make that a fired a**h****. (none / 0) (#31)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:48:02 PM EST
    I can't say that I didn't expect it. But with his summary termination occurring in the midst of a full-blown FBI counter-intelligence investigation into the Trump campaign's ties with Russia, it's nevertheless a shocking development because Trump's motives more likely stem from a desire to shut down that investigation, rather than provide the bureau with enlightened and competent leadership.

    Given the excuse provided by the White House,
    I'd be half on guard now for a re-opened investigation into Hillary Clinton's emails:

    "The FBI's reputation and credibility have suffered substantial damage, and it has affected the entire Department of Justice. I cannot defend the director's handling of the conclusion of the investigation of Secretary Clinton's emails, and I do not understand his refusal to accept the nearly universal judgment that he was mistaken. Almost everyone agrees that the director made serious mistakes; it is one of the few issues that unites people of diverse perspectives."
    - Rod Rosenstein, Deputy Attorney General (May 9, 2017)

    It should be apparent to everyone with a brain and a functional sense of personal honesty that this administration doesn't operate with a moral or ethical compass.



    Surfs Up For A Wave Election (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 04:07:14 PM EST
    Wow on the hailstorm (none / 0) (#9)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 09, 2017 at 04:09:30 PM EST
    We had three that I remember in the 17 years I was there. Two made roof replacement and painting a must. On the second roof replacement, which was the third storm, the insurance companies said that no matter what the HOA nazi said, they would not pay for another shake roof.

    I was out of town and many cars at DIA had their windows knocked out with the resulting water damage...lucky me had been running real late on the outbound and had decided to pay for close in covered parking instead of the usual cheap long term.

    Holy s**t (none / 0) (#11)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 09, 2017 at 04:48:07 PM EST
    TRump fires Comey, "terminated and removed from office" per CNN.

    WOW... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Cashmere on Tue May 09, 2017 at 04:51:09 PM EST
    I despise Comey, but this is pretty amazing and Comey is investigating Trump....  Bad optics for Trump.

    So much for the FBI (none / 0) (#15)
    by MKS on Tue May 09, 2017 at 04:58:58 PM EST
    investigation into Trump's collusion with Russia.

    Given Sally Yates's testimony that she twiced visited and had a follow up call to warn the White House about Flynn, and Trump blowing it all off, Flynn appears to have been acting with Trump's approval.

    Trump was freaked out about Yates's testimony yesterday, tweeting like a madman.

    Shades of Archibald Cox and the Saturday Night Massacre.


    i dont think thats true at all (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:02:00 PM EST
    Comey was not the FBI.  whatever investigation was happening will certainly continue.  not only that as i said below this is going to light a fire under this whole thing.   this makes it look like there has to be something to investigate.

    What other reason (none / 0) (#22)
    by MKS on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:05:37 PM EST
    would Trump have to fire an FBI Director (who has a ten year term), which I do not believe has ever been done before?

    The only reason for Trump to fire Comey is to put his own stooge in as Director.  

    Cheeto certainly does not care that Comey overstated the case against Huma/Hillary in his testimony yesterday....


    well (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:09:30 PM EST
    if that was his reason i think there will be unintended consequences.

    the director has to be confirmed, right?  that shoud be fun.


    Who is going (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:44:01 PM EST
    to believe that he fired Comey because of the email investigation? Nobody. He could have done that back in January. And if lying under oath is the case then he needs to fire Sessions too.

    well (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:49:20 PM EST
    why exactly now is a valid question.  but its pretty impossible to say he did not earn this.  and its being greeted with bipartisan approval.  and it was urged not only by Foghorn Leghorn but even apparently more so by his deputy.  who is not widely seen as corrupt.

    IMO the hair on fire crisis stuff is premature and overstated.  


    Yes, (none / 0) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 09, 2017 at 06:10:58 PM EST
    I hear his deputy is very much a straight shooter much better than Comey. However the name being bandied around for Comey's replacement is none other than banjo boy who shops conspiracy theories.

    i meant Sessions deputy (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 06:16:44 PM EST
    who do you mean?   the only person ive heard is the second at the FBI.  i forget his name but there are some odd things including some sort of pow wow with Pleabus about that MI6 guy and his dossier

    Comey's (none / 0) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 09, 2017 at 06:25:42 PM EST
    deputy at FBI. I didn't hear that about the Asst. FBI person.

    Schumer says that a special prosecutor has to be appointed now because anybody who doesn't go along with it is going to look like they are part of the cover up.


    his second is Andrew McCabe (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 06:46:40 PM EST
    but he would be next to impossible to confirm see






    Yeah, (none / 0) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 09, 2017 at 07:03:28 PM EST
    I don't think they are going to nominate him. They need a Putin stooge to fill the position and McCabe does not fit the bill.

    well (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 07:07:03 PM EST
    Mark Halperin, prominent Trump mouthpiece and butt boy, just said McCabe met with The Orange this afternoon and will for the time being be acting director.

    He kind of has (none / 0) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 09, 2017 at 07:54:56 PM EST
    to put McCabe in the position at least for now but I'm sure that he will find a Putin stooge to replace him.

    your SNM (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:02:52 PM EST
    reference is very appropriate IMO.

    Wasn't it just a few days ago you Lefties wanted (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:40:55 PM EST
    Comey fired?

    Why yes. Yes you did.

    Now you have your wish and what do you? You complain!

    You should have been careful what you ask for.



    Silly (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:48:03 PM EST
    Jim Trump fired Comey because he got too close to the facts about Trump and Russia. Do you seriously believe that Trump fired him because he lied about the emails? Nobody believes that. Nope, we wanted Obama to fire Comey after the election but he did not so most of us had moved on. Comey gave Trump an opening to lop off his head with regards to how he handled the email investigation by breaking DOJ regulations. He's just using this email thing as an excuse. So if what Comey said the other day was wrong under oath I guess he will be firing Sessions any day now?

    All I know is you wanted him gone (none / 0) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 09, 2017 at 09:17:37 PM EST
    and you got what you wanted.



    Well (none / 0) (#60)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 09, 2017 at 09:23:02 PM EST
    now there is going to be a Clintonite running the FBI. Delicious irony I would say.

    A "Clintonite" (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 09:27:47 PM EST
    Who perhaps legally gave the Trump administration a heads up and assistance managing the PR on the dossier

    Here (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 09:29:27 PM EST
    Sounds (none / 0) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 09, 2017 at 10:12:02 PM EST
    like he was entirely too friendly with Comey who also broke the rules. Ugh. I guess Comey thought he was so special that the rules just did not apply to him.

    Yes, here are two thoughts I can have (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by ruffian on Wed May 10, 2017 at 12:27:23 PM EST
    at the same time:
    1. Comey violated FBI policy, interfered in an election, and deserves to be fired

    2. Firing him now is obstruction of justice.

    So yes, I am simultaneously happy he is gone and ready to impeach.

    Let me understand (1.00 / 1) (#110)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 11, 2017 at 08:18:31 PM EST
    Exactly how is firing Comey an obstruction of justice???

    Last thing I have heard is the new FBI guy said they have all the needed resources and are moving full speed ahead/

    But, if you want to see obstruction at its best.

    President Bill Clinton fired FBI Director William S. Sessions on July  19, 1993

    Vince Foster was found dead on July 20, 1993

    Was the suspicious death of Vince Foster and the firing of Republican FBI Director William S. Sessions firing a coincidence? Did President Clinton need an FBI Director who was willing to look the other way when it came to the alleged criminal activities of the Clintons?



    Hahahahahahaha ... (none / 0) (#111)
    by Yman on Thu May 11, 2017 at 09:07:25 PM EST
    Did you really just try to revive the b@t$hit, crazy, wingnut conspiracy theory about Vince Foster?, then link to some pathetic, Breitbart wannabes as your "evidence"???

    I can't decide if that means you're running scared or desperately need meds ...

    ... or both.


    One good piece (none / 0) (#115)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 11, 2017 at 11:47:40 PM EST
    of b@tshit crazy Leftie conspiracy theory deserves another.

    The difference being ... (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Yman on Fri May 12, 2017 at 07:51:04 AM EST
    ... your wingnut, Vince Foster CT was never anything more than a laughable CT.  Trump, OTOH, just fired the FBI Director who was actively investigating his campaign for colluding with the Russians.  He lied about why he did it, but was now forced to admit the real reason when Rosenstein threatened to go public/design.  The same investigation that has now convened federal grand juries and started to issue subpoenas.  The evidence continues to be gathered and the lies continue to grow.  Unlike your laughable Foster CT, I can cite numerous legal experts who agree that Trump committed obstruction of justice.

    Tick, tock ...

    Tick, tock ...


    Actually there is more believabkle (none / 0) (#128)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 12, 2017 at 09:41:36 PM EST
    info on Vince than has been provided on Trump.

    You have nothing on Trump. Comey says he isn't being investigated.

    Fake news.


    More LIES (none / 0) (#130)
    by Yman on Fri May 12, 2017 at 10:30:10 PM EST
    Setting aside your laughable claim about the Vince Foster CT that we already established was b@t$hit crazy, your claim is a lie.

    You have nothing on Trump. Comey says he isn't being investigated.

    No.  Trump claims Comey says he's not investigating Trump.  You're basing this laughable claim on the word of a pathological liar who lies on a daily basis.  But that fits you perfectly.


    What Olsen Johnson said to Howard Johnson ... (none / 0) (#34)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:53:08 PM EST
    ... applies to you as well.

    He was fired because he no longer (none / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 09, 2017 at 09:29:25 PM EST
    could run the agency.

    Somewhat sad because this all started with Leftie Loretta Lynch meeting with her Godfather, Bubba of the Arkansas Clinton Clan embarrassing Comey.

    So he stopped being an investigator and turned into a "I wish I was" prosecutor.

    That enraged the Left who wanted him gone.

    You got what you wanted.



    The only thing that's "embarassing" (5.00 / 4) (#75)
    by Yman on Tue May 09, 2017 at 10:30:25 PM EST
    ... is that post.  Comey was fired because he embarrassed your joke of a POTUS and has convened a grand jury that is issuing subpoenas.  Your Cheetoh is running scared.

    Tick, tock ... tick, tock ...


    Nope (none / 0) (#70)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 09, 2017 at 10:15:49 PM EST
    you are 100% wrong but then again what else is new?

    Quit trying to blame everybody else for your problems. Trump could have fired Comey in January if that was the case. The grand juries are going forward regardless of what has happened to Comey. They have issues subpoenas. The Russian investigation is too far along for Trump to change anything and there are a lot of other people working on the case.

    Let's just get a special prosecutor to handle all of this and we won't have to even discuss Comey or anybody else. Reports are sealed indictments have been already issued on some.


    wow (none / 0) (#13)
    by MKS on Tue May 09, 2017 at 04:51:52 PM EST
    good news (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 04:55:47 PM EST
    bad news

    still the guy had to go.  this latest was...im at a loss for adjectives.


    Comey may have (none / 0) (#16)
    by MKS on Tue May 09, 2017 at 04:59:57 PM EST
    wanted to redeem himself by really looking closely at Trump.  Cheeto could not have that.

    from everything (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:06:29 PM EST
    i have heard and read the deputy is a straight shooter

    the deputy AG i mean (none / 0) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:18:02 PM EST
    who seems to have had a hand in this

    President George W. Bush had nominated him in 2007 for a position on the U.S. 4th Circuit Court of Appeals, which was blocked by Sens. Barbara Mikulski and Benjamin Cardin of Maryland. Other than that, he appears to be a career DOJ guy, having first joined the department in 1990. He became U.S. Attorney for the Maryland District in 2005, and President Obama kept him on in that post after 2009. He was nominated for his present position as Deputy AG by Trump in January.

    Comey gave me the (none / 0) (#35)
    by fishcamp on Tue May 09, 2017 at 06:08:46 PM EST
    Heebie Jeebies after the first email debacle.  The second one was handled like a bad horror film.  Can't wait to get to the gym tomorrow.

    this would seem to me to (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:00:00 PM EST
    seal the deal for an independent counsel.  how could it not?

    Fascist (none / 0) (#19)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:02:50 PM EST
    take over or Nixonian failure, a flip of a coin, I'm nervous.

    nervous is probably not a bad idea (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:04:56 PM EST
    still, I actually think this might be just the kick in the a$$ this whole thing needed.

    Muy optimistic (none / 0) (#24)
    by MKS on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:07:13 PM EST
    But maybe so.

    One word, Cap'n: (none / 0) (#38)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue May 09, 2017 at 06:11:18 PM EST
    CaptHowdy: "this would seem to me to seal the deal for an independent counsel. how could it not?"



    he might see himself (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 06:18:55 PM EST
    as a dictator.  he is not.  

    Only if we stand up and say otherwise. (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue May 09, 2017 at 06:50:33 PM EST
    The public backlash was enormous back in October 1973, when President Nixon successively sacked Attorney General Elliot Richardson, Deputy AG William Ruckelshaus and Watergate Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox in what's since become infamously known as the "Saturday Night Massacre."

    I can't say what might happen today if the public just shrugs its collective shoulders here. Fortunately, I think people have a heightened sense of political awareness right now -- as well they should.



    Tuesday (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 09, 2017 at 05:42:19 PM EST
    night massacre and we now have a constitutional crisis on our hands.

    i just got a text (none / 0) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 06:41:18 PM EST
    from my brother, a nominal Trump supporter and defended, who i was just earlier today bantering with about the russia thing.  he was trying to pooh pooh it.  pretty hard.  the text had no text just a photo that i would so love to share but wont was of my brother with a belt around his neck that he was holding up with one hand, like a noose, with bug eyes and extruded tounge

    So, your brother (none / 0) (#48)
    by MKS on Tue May 09, 2017 at 07:10:48 PM EST
    is over Cheeto?  Cool.  His soul can now be saved.....

    more like (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 07:16:42 PM EST
    he is over defending him i think

    What is it with the GOP? (none / 0) (#50)
    by MKS on Tue May 09, 2017 at 07:18:25 PM EST
    They will fight for team R almost no matter what, even if the "R" electeds reject all their GOP values....

    some will of course (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 09, 2017 at 07:19:36 PM EST
    some are already bailing

    second day of jury selection (none / 0) (#52)
    by linea on Tue May 09, 2017 at 07:47:24 PM EST
    in the betty shelby trial

    asking 43 potential jurors -- 33 women and 10 men -- for more information

    Do you know if the jury will be (none / 0) (#54)
    by McBain on Tue May 09, 2017 at 07:59:38 PM EST
    sequestered?  I'm not sure if that's as important as it was in other high profile trials because Shelby and her legal team did a good job with the 60 minutes interview.

    i cant find (none / 0) (#56)
    by linea on Tue May 09, 2017 at 08:50:13 PM EST
    any info on that. perhaps the judge doesnt announce that until after the jury is selected?

    Day 2: Potential jurors for Betty Shelby's manslaughter trial narrowed down to 28

    Opening statements today (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by McBain on Wed May 10, 2017 at 06:31:31 PM EST
    McMurray (Shelby's lawyer) said only person who acted out of fear in this case was District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler who filed charges too fast....
    McMurray says another 911 caller said, "I think something dangerous is going to happen", Crutcher behavior sent chills down spine....
    McMurray says Crutcher's vehicle window halfway down. DA agrees with that, ending debate over if window up at time.

    more notes (none / 0) (#84)
    by linea on Wed May 10, 2017 at 08:47:29 PM EST
    newson6.com reports:
    [Assistant District Attorney Kevin Gray] says Shelby gave statement days later. Says detectives showed her the videos of what happened, then questioned her. Gray says Shelby broke down during interview, crying, collapsed on floor.

    tulsaworld.com reports:

    Assistant District Attorney Kevin Gray began the trial by portraying Shelby as an overemotional officer whose unnecessary fear of Crutcher resulted in him bleeding to death in the street...

    kevin gray seems to assert that because officer betty shelby was distraught over the incident - she is too emotional to be a police officer. the obvious sexist subtext is that women are by nature over-emotional and thus shouldn't be in policing. it seems to me that kevin gray believes the male emotional response - which sometimes include decreased empathy and heightened rage - are normative while the female emotional response is maladjusted.

    newson6.com reports:

    [Defense Attorney Shannon McMurray] says Shelby's actions not unreasonable, just because her voice was raised in stress. She said you can be afraid and courageous.

    McMurray says Shelby did get emotional during her statement, which is normal reaction to taking a life. McMurray says it is not unusual to show videos before asking questions, that works that way for all citizens.


    seems to me, police officers should be upset and distraught when forced to shoot someone. unlike the boys on the s.w.a.t. team getting an erection and high-five-ing each other after shooting the suicidal teen who locked himself in the bathroom with a knife.

    also read:
    Officers testify Shelby was visibly shaken, crying after Crutcher shooting


    State rests it's case (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by McBain on Fri May 12, 2017 at 02:32:18 PM EST
    Sgt. Dave Walker testified about the rush to bring charges...
    Walker also said the autopsy results weren't in before the DA charged Shelby, neither were toxicology reports nor tests to see if Crutcher's vehicle was operable.

    And...? (none / 0) (#121)
    by Repack Rider on Fri May 12, 2017 at 04:46:19 PM EST
       Walker also said the autopsy results weren't in before the DA charged Shelby, neither were toxicology reports nor tests to see if Crutcher's vehicle was operable.

    What sort of information would the autopsy reveal that the video did not?

    There is a video of him getting shot and subsequently dying. Was there a supposition that he had a heart attack and died simultaneously with the shooting, but that the bullet wounds were not the cause of death?

    DUDE WAS SHOT AND KILLED.  Pretty sure the autopsy will agree, but there IS a video of the event, which shows clearly that he was SHOT.

    Toxicology tests?  Was there a suspicion that he was POISONED?  

    Dude was shot.  He was not armed and he was not threatening anyone.


    state rests its case (none / 0) (#126)
    by linea on Fri May 12, 2017 at 08:57:20 PM EST
    from the prosecution case we learned:

    ctutcher stopped his running SUV in the middle of the road blocking both lanes of traffic, a woman stopped and asked if she could help but ctutcher exhibited threatening behavior and she left fearing he had a gun. ctutcher then started walking down the middle of the road screaming, "it's gonna blow!"

    when officer betty shelby arrived, she tried to talk to crutcher but he only mumbed. crutcher repeated put his hands in his pockets. officer betty shelby repeatedly ordered him to not put his hands in his pockets but he was non-compliant. betty shelby is a drug recognition expert and she believed he may be high on PCP.

    at this time, crutcher seemed determined to return to his car. officer betty shelby drew her service weapon and repeatedly ordered crutcher to stop but he disobeyed her commands.

    officer betty shelby was joined by another officer who drew his taser as an alternative to lethal force. the officer stated that had officer betty shelby deployed a taser, he would have drawn his service weapon. when ctutcher reached through the open car window, both officers fired simultaneously fearing crutcher was retrieving a weapon. the officer with the taser stated he would have used lethal force and fired his service weapon had he drawn that rather than his taser.

    the prosecution contends:

    • because betty shelby's voice was high-pitched and excitable when speaking on the police radio; this proves she was emotional and frightened and over-reacted.
    • because betty shelby cried immediately after the incident; this proves she is overly-emotional.
    • because betty shelby cried and was distraught when viweing the video of the incident; this proves she is overly-emotional.
    • additionally her behavior of being "visibly upset, anxious, and nervous" during the interview with detectives; proves she did something wrong.
    • a training officer from when betty shelby worked in the sherif's department stated he "never once found her (Shelby) to not handle stress very well." but the prosecution made him describe an incident where betty shelby became upset and cried after doing poorly on a pop quiz.

    re: state rests its case (none / 0) (#129)
    by linea on Fri May 12, 2017 at 10:05:24 PM EST
    just a word question.

    prosecutions can be state and federal. thus we have, "the state rests its case." what is the u.s. equvalent to, "the crown rests its case"?


    Federal prosecutors refer to themselves (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Peter G on Sat May 13, 2017 at 08:15:28 PM EST
    and their side of the case as "the Government." That's the equivalent expression in federal court. Great question, Linea. In some U.S. states, by the way, the prosecution side calls itself "the State" or "the Commonwealth" (in those states whose Constitutions use that expression, such as Virginia and Pennsylvania) and in some others, "the People."

    Different people react differently (none / 0) (#85)
    by McBain on Wed May 10, 2017 at 08:56:00 PM EST
    to stressful situations.  Some keep their feelings inside, some let them out all at once.  I usually don't like the prosecutor's tactic of basically saying someone is guilty because they didn't act correctly after an incident. That's usually means a weak case.

    Shelby's defense will be she followed her police training. Going by the information she had at the time the shooting, while being tragic, was justified under the law.  


    I always wonder ... (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Yman on Wed May 10, 2017 at 09:52:32 PM EST
    Shelby's defense will be she followed her police training. Going by the information she had at the time the shooting, while being tragic, was justified under the law.

    ... if people who state their opinion as fact actually believe it's more convincing.


    exactly (none / 0) (#87)
    by linea on Wed May 10, 2017 at 09:58:03 PM EST
    the prosecution is asserting exactly that.
    that being distraught is proof of guilt.

    Six Police Officers Testify At Betty Shelby Manslaughter Trial

    The next witness was Dean Montgomery, a member of TPD's Critical Response Team. Montgomery has been on the force for 19 years.

    He said he responded to the scene when he heard Shelby asking for additional back-up.

    Montgomery said when he got there, Shelby was "very humble, aware of her surroundings, aware of what just transpired."

    Once they arrived back at the Gilcrease Division, Montgomery said Shelby kept asking, "Why didn't he listen to my commands?" He said, at that point, Shelby was visibly upset and became anxious and nervous.

    Montgomery said that's normal behavior for someone who has just been in a critical situation like she had.

    The state then asked, "Don't you think those are the behavior traits of someone who has done something wrong?"

    Montgomery responded, "I don't have an answer for that."

    So her distraught reaction was ... (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Yman on Wed May 10, 2017 at 10:13:17 PM EST
    ... being introduced as evidence of her mental state (i.e. guilt over having done something wrong), rather than being a sexist attempt to suggest that all women are too emotional and therefore should not be police officers.

    So confusing.


    Cops often make good witnesses (none / 0) (#95)
    by McBain on Thu May 11, 2017 at 11:33:33 AM EST
    Shelby has that going for her, assuming an impartial jury.  I still don't know if they are sequestered.

    I agree (none / 0) (#100)
    by Repack Rider on Thu May 11, 2017 at 01:48:51 PM EST
    Cops often make good witnesses

    ...but for different reasons.

    I sat next to a California Highway Patrolman when I defended myself in traffic court.  He lied his butt off.  His lies were smooth and practiced.  He had clearly done this before.  Of course I knew he was lying, and so did he.

    He picked the wrong defendant to lie about. I knew what his lies were going to be, and I was ready with the questions that I wanted the judge to ask him. The judge was happy to do so, because administering traffic court is boring but necessary, and I was the first defendant all day who was prepared with an actual defense.

    After the judge acquitted me and admonished the CHP officer for lying to the court, my friend the criminal defense attorney expressed astonishment that an amateur like myself was able to win a case in what he called "the most rigged tribunal in the world," i.e. traffic court.  He knew from his criminal practice that police lie on the witness stand, but the fact that I was able to demonstrate that to the court was what amazed him.


    Seems to be a pattern with CHP. (none / 0) (#120)
    by Chuck0 on Fri May 12, 2017 at 02:38:22 PM EST
    Many years ago I was ticketed by CHP in San Diego. Went to court and a completely different officer showed up claiming to be the officer who cited me.

    "Assuming an impartial jury" - heh (none / 0) (#102)
    by Yman on Thu May 11, 2017 at 05:34:03 PM EST
    Cops are generally good at testifying because they are professional witnesses.  Moreover, while prosecutions of police officers is notoriously difficult for several reasons, a lack of "impartiality" on behalf of jurors tends to work in the officers favor.

    day 4 betty shelby trial (none / 0) (#108)
    by linea on Thu May 11, 2017 at 07:17:24 PM EST
    because someone on this site parroted the absolutte fabrication that the windows were closed and falsely accused officer betty shelby of being a liar:

    Crime Scene Photos Shown On Day 4 Of Betty Shelby Trial

    The detectives took pictures of the scene and Thursday, the jury and those in the courtroom saw about 45 of those pictures.

    The pictures were taken from just about every possible angle and included pictures of the car, pictures of a pack of cigarettes and pictures of Crutcher's identification.

    After pictures are taken, the detectives take video of the scene, measure the evidence and then collect it.

    Describing this process in the courtroom helped set the scene for the jury, so prosecutors could start presenting any evidence that was significant. So Thursday morning's witnesses were mostly a set up for that.

    Calling those witnesses allows the DA to get that evidence admitted, Taser on the ground and a shell casing, Taser barbs in the pants and shirt of Crutcher still at the scene, and the bullet fragment removed from Terence Crutcher at the medical examiner's office.

    The photos also showed the rolled down windows of the vehicle and the vial of PCP found inside it.

    The last officer to testify took pictures of Crutcher's vehicle once it was in secure storage, once again showing the windows were halfway down, like at the scene.

    Facts don't matter to people who (none / 0) (#112)
    by McBain on Thu May 11, 2017 at 09:41:29 PM EST
    have already made up their minds. False narratives don't die easily.

    True (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 11, 2017 at 09:45:19 PM EST
    They are like cockroaches and trolls.

    Exactly (none / 0) (#122)
    by Repack Rider on Fri May 12, 2017 at 04:59:35 PM EST
    Facts don't matter to people who have already made up their minds.

    Agreed.  There are some here who feel that if a police officer shoots and kills an unarmed Black man who is not committing a crime and is not threatening anyone, the police officer is acting within operational parameters.  Nothing seems to change that attitude, not facts, video evidence, basic morality, logic or the law.

    Apparently in the eyes of some, shooting innocent unarmed Black people is what we pay police to do. These people do not care about society as much as they enjoy seeing Black men die.

    Not naming names.  Just agreeing with you.


    No one in TalkLeft wants to see innocent (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by McBain on Fri May 12, 2017 at 06:52:55 PM EST
    people die.  I doubt any here want to see guilty people die either unless it's something extreme... serial killer, terrorist. I don't support the death penalty, so I don't want anyone dead.

    The real disagreement is over the rush to file charges, the rush to judgement and the definition of reasonable doubt.   In a criminal case, might be guilty isn't good enough for me.  Probably guilty isn't good enough either.  I don't need 100% certainty but definitely somewhere  north of 90%.

    As for your other post below (#121)...
    The toxicology report was necessarily to show the presence of PCP.  I suspect that will be game changer in this case.

    The only thing the state has going for them so far is the manslaughter charge. While I don't believe they had enough evidence for that, at least they didn't go all Angela Corey and say it was murder.


    And... (none / 0) (#136)
    by Repack Rider on Sat May 13, 2017 at 11:58:42 AM EST
    The toxicology report was necessarily to show the presence of PCP.  I suspect that will be game changer in this case.

    You seem to be saying that if the VICTIM had taken drugs, the OFFICER was justified in shooting him.

    How would the officer have known that there were drugs in his system, and that she was therefore entitled to shoot him, if a toxicology report is required to find that out?

    Lots of people have taken drugs before interacting with police, and it is not considered an excuse to kill them.  Police are supposed to be TRAINED to deal with such people.  The VICTIM did not display any indication of drug use.


    Officer Shelby (none / 0) (#140)
    by McBain on Sat May 13, 2017 at 02:33:00 PM EST
    is a drug-recognition expert.  She was trained to make such observations.

    "The VICTIM did not display any indication of drug use. "

    Not according to officer Shelby and other witnesses and other witnesses.

    She (non police witness who called 911) and other witnesses testified right before the shooting, Crutcher seemed zombie-like, high and acting strangely.

    Too make observations (none / 0) (#143)
    by jondee on Sat May 13, 2017 at 03:11:21 PM EST
    such as what?

    That unarmed, outnumbered drug users with their hands in the air should be terminated with extreme prejudice just to be on the safe side?


    Not to mention (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Yman on Sat May 13, 2017 at 03:39:45 PM EST
    The training that they receive involves a 12-step process that takes about an hour in a controlled environment.  They're not trained to do roadside evaluations.

    An "expert" who yelled and screamed (none / 0) (#149)
    by jondee on Sat May 13, 2017 at 04:06:05 PM EST
    and ran out of class when she got a zero on a quiz.

    Remind me again, who was supposed to be on drugs here?


    The one with a lengthy criminal record (none / 0) (#150)
    by McBain on Sat May 13, 2017 at 04:54:10 PM EST
    who tested positive for PCP and was shouting, "it's gonna blow!"

    But of course....
    He had his hands up
    He was gentle giant
    He was turning his life around
    He wanted to be an astronaut

    Let's all pretend Shelby was an unstable mess and Crutcher was just minding his business.  


    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Yman on Sat May 13, 2017 at 05:27:11 PM EST
    Or we could pretend that having a criminal record (not admissible for obvious reasons) and being under the influence justifies the use of deadly force.

    We should talk about all the information re: Shelby's past that not admissible, since you want to go there.  Suddenly, domestic violence, protective orders and drug use are irrelevant when it comes to a cop, right?


    i suppose (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by linea on Sat May 13, 2017 at 05:44:03 PM EST
    people here are:
    • free to criticize current police policies.
    • free to criticize the legal frameword under which the police operate.

    but that really isnt part of this case and i have my own ideas of police reform and police policies. i suppose in hindsight i could propose a scenario of events with hopefully a better outcome, that's fine as an imaginative exercize. but the adults here are actually interested in this case in the real-world with the real-facts and the real-law as it applies in a real-court-of-law.

    if this were an actual law blog:

    • people should be able to discuss the case based on the facts presented in court.
    • people should be ablie to discuss the law - the actual law - rather than hysterically shouting "DUDE GOT SHOT" as a legal argument.

    Oh, dear GAWD ... (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Yman on Sat May 13, 2017 at 06:16:15 PM EST
    Hop off that fake high horse you're on and join the actual adults who aren't engaging in the silly, strawman arguments you're making.

    How many times do you need it spelled out (none / 0) (#144)
    by McBain on Sat May 13, 2017 at 03:34:39 PM EST
    for you?  Shelby observed that Crutcher was acting as if he was under the influence of drugs. She was trained to do that. Turns out, she was correct.

    What is it you want?  Shelby to go to prison for decades?  Cops sometimes have to make difficult decisions involving the use of deadly force.  If we make the penalty too harsh for guessing wrong, why would anyone want to be a cop?


    "Guessing"? (none / 0) (#146)
    by Yman on Sat May 13, 2017 at 03:45:14 PM EST
    Being under the influence of drugs is not a summary execution offense.  Neither is refusing police commands.  When officers assume the great responsibility of authority to use deadly force, I want them to recognize that simple fact.  I want them to recognize the fact that deadly force should only be used when someone is actually threatening to use deadly force against the officer or someone else.  If they can't do that, they shouldn't go in to law enforcement.

    Right (none / 0) (#147)
    by jondee on Sat May 13, 2017 at 03:55:32 PM EST
    needless to say, as it is, too many of the wrong kind of people want to be and end up being cops.

    People who consider killing an acceptable first response instead of an absolute last resort.


    It doesn't always work like that (none / 0) (#148)
    by McBain on Sat May 13, 2017 at 04:05:33 PM EST
    It's not like you see on TV.  Cops don't, and shouldn't, have to wait until they are shot at first before using deadly force.  There isn't always time for a lengthy conversation or for exhausting all other means.

    Shelby didn't just walk up to Crutcher and shoot him. She gave him several chances to comply.  


    friday - day 5 notes (none / 0) (#132)
    by linea on Sat May 13, 2017 at 09:14:03 AM EST
    Defense asked Judge if they could now tell the jury about Crutcher's criminal history since DA brought up he was peaceful person.@newson6

    Judge originally said no but agreed DA opened door with TCC ladies who said Crutcher peaceful, polite 15-30 mins before shooting.@newson6

    Judge said defense could talk about Crutcher's prior police contacts, resisting arrest, 4 times, but not entire criminal history.@newson6

    Seems like an error (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Yman on Sat May 13, 2017 at 10:42:02 AM EST
    If the testimony from the "TCC ladies" had to do only with his temperament immediately before the shooting, conduct from the past doesn't seem relevant to that.

    Wonder if they'll be allowed to introduce evidence from Betty Shelby's past.


    Peaceful people can do violent things (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by McBain on Sat May 13, 2017 at 11:25:28 AM EST
    on drugs, especially PCP.  

    Does this trial seem like it's moving much faster than other high profile trials?  


    DA: crying is proof of emotional instability (none / 0) (#137)
    by linea on Sat May 13, 2017 at 12:38:39 PM EST
    Does this trial seem like it's moving much faster than other high profile trials?

    the prosecution has very few witness to present.

    the police officers at the scene support officer betty shelby's version and they consider it a justfiable shooting. the homicide unit that investigated the incident concluded in their report that it was a justifiable shooting. the citizens who encountered crutchner thought he was dangerous and on drugs.

    rather than evidence, the prosecution has resorted to pushing this sexist narative:

    • because betty shelby's voice was high-pitched and excitable when speaking on the police radio; this proves she was emotional and frightened and over-reacted.
    • because betty shelby cried immediately after the incident; this proves she is overly-emotional.
    • because betty shelby cried and was distraught when viweing the video of the incident; this proves she is overly-emotional.
    • additionally, her behavior of being "visibly upset, anxious, and nervous" during the interview with detectives; proves she did something wrong.
    • a training officer with the sherif's department stated he "never once found her (Shelby) to not handle stress very well." but the prosecution made him describe an incident where betty shelby became upset and cried after doing poorly on a pop quiz.

    Sexist? (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by Yman on Sat May 13, 2017 at 02:52:51 PM EST
    The officer's mental state is extremely relevant to the crime charged.  It has NOTHING to do with her gender, despite your attempts to make everything in this case about gender.

    KILLING an unarmed, outnumbered (none / 0) (#138)
    by jondee on Sat May 13, 2017 at 01:04:41 PM EST
    human being in situation in which the police have All the power and they have absolutely none, because the person wasn't cooperating 100%, isn't an example of any gender-based incapacity so much as it's an expression of a disasterously gross incompetence on the individual and group level.

    When the outnumbered, unarmed Crutcher first had his hands in the air, that should've been the end of the situation.


    Oh, look! Another "sexist" ... (none / 0) (#159)
    by Yman on Sat May 13, 2017 at 09:21:06 PM EST
    ... prosecutor showing a videotape of a cop crying and being emotional after shooting an unarmed, meth addict.  It's an epidemic of "sexist" prosecutors unfairly attacking police officers by attempting to show their "overly emotional" reaction after the shooting.

    Oh, ... wait ...

    ... this cop was a male.

    Never mind.


    Yes yes (none / 0) (#139)
    by jondee on Sat May 13, 2017 at 01:11:35 PM EST
    we've all heard the stories about big black guys on PCP and how the have the strength of ten men..like silverback gorillas..

    In New Orleans insituations like this, the cops didn't "find" vials of PCP, it was usually a spare untraceable handgun they euphemistically referred to as a "ham sandwich."


    Of course they can (none / 0) (#141)
    by Yman on Sat May 13, 2017 at 02:48:09 PM EST
    The problem is, this person didn't.

    men slamming tables in anger (none / 0) (#157)
    by linea on Sat May 13, 2017 at 08:44:03 PM EST
    is normal. any behaviour seen as female (like crying) is considered by men to be maladjusted.

    Here's Why Some Men Actually Try to Make Women Cry at Work

    Consider the difference in perception of anger. In the new book What Works for Women at Work, the coauthors reference an interview with Sallie Krawcheck, the former head of wealth management at Bank of America: Krawcheck recalled male colleagues slamming tables in anger and throwing things across the room, behavior that was considered the norm.

    Did Shelby shoot ... (none / 0) (#158)
    by Yman on Sat May 13, 2017 at 08:59:53 PM EST
    ... an unarmed banker at Bank of America, too?

    CNN is (none / 0) (#57)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 09, 2017 at 08:58:44 PM EST
    reporting that grand juries have been empaneled in VA and have issued subpoenas to Flynn and others.

    Oh, ... the rich, delicious irony (none / 0) (#58)
    by Yman on Tue May 09, 2017 at 09:10:38 PM EST
    By most accounts (none / 0) (#61)
    by MKS on Tue May 09, 2017 at 09:24:06 PM EST
    there are two budding political superstars in California with national prospects:  (1) Sen. Kamala Harris, and (2) Gavin Newsom, candidate and I think frontrunner for Governor of California.

    I always thought Harris fine but a bit of plodder and wallflower.  Not dynamic or interesting.

    Newsom I have always liked, a dynamic and telegenic pol.   As I have said, the cabbies in San Francisco talked for weeks when as Mayor he walked the picket line with striking hotel workers.

    But Harris has really done something that I find just great.  In discussing publicly the House passing the Trump health care bill, she said, "What the f*&k is that?"  

    Harris has showed great fire on this.   Good for her.  


    i googled (none / 0) (#65)
    by linea on Tue May 09, 2017 at 09:34:49 PM EST
    kamala harris

    and found this article

    Some speakers Sunday called for a single-payer national health insurance, also known as "Medicare for all" whereby all U.S. residents would be covered for all medically necessary services, while others, including Harris, were more vague in how far they would like the nation's health care coverage to go.

    I will say that as California (none / 0) (#68)
    by MKS on Tue May 09, 2017 at 09:55:45 PM EST
    AG she dinged the banks pretty good.

    as in? (none / 0) (#71)
    by linea on Tue May 09, 2017 at 10:21:48 PM EST
    "the countess dinged the bell twice to summon her butler."

    Attorney General Kamala D. Harris Reaches $470 Million Joint State-Federal Settlement with HSBC to Address Mortgage Loan Origination, Servicing, and Foreclosure Abuses

    i agree. seems she did some very good work as attorney general.


    And (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by MKS on Tue May 09, 2017 at 10:25:00 PM EST
    with other AGs she got a billion dollar judgment against bank servicers.t

    Different colloquial meaning of "ding" (none / 0) (#80)
    by Peter G on Wed May 10, 2017 at 04:56:43 PM EST
    Not "to cause the bell to ring slightly" but rather "to cause moderate damage or injury to a solid object."

    Dang n/t (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Repack Rider on Wed May 10, 2017 at 06:26:40 PM EST
    colloquialism (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by linea on Wed May 10, 2017 at 07:28:51 PM EST
    thank you.

    to me, "dinged the banks" sounded oddly nautical. but now i recall hearing (u.s. english only) "my car got dinged."


    How funny the different ways people (none / 0) (#72)
    by caseyOR on Tue May 09, 2017 at 10:24:34 PM EST
    perceive things. I find Harris very interesting. I have been following her for the last few years and have always thought of her as smart and determined and, yes, dynamic and telegenic.

    I think she did a good job as CA AG. And she has the potential to be a very good senator, and perhaps, beyond that.

    I like Gavin, too. His personal life has been kind of messy, and, before Trump, I thought that might hurt him on the national stage. Post-Trump I wonder if there will be any standards at all. Anyway, I think Gavin could be a very good governor.


    Gavin (none / 0) (#74)
    by MKS on Tue May 09, 2017 at 10:27:33 PM EST
    needs to get absolution from those like Donald H.

    One can only hope Gavin has grown up.   His wife is very accomplished and pretty, so.....

    Gavin can also screw up professionally,....and the gay community is not as fond of him as I would think....the idea being he was less than smart in how he did things.

    But I do like Gavin.....and agree with Bill Maher.


    Regardless, I'm no longer a California resident so I really have no say. I hope Gavin Newsom's grown up. Seducing and sport-fckng the wife of his best bud and campaign manager just because he could, destroying the guy's marriage and personal life in the process, was a truly reprehensible thing to do, a shocking act of personal betrayal to someone who'd otherwise shown him nothing but friendship and loyalty.

    I consider that sort of appallingly schitty behavior to be reflective of a sexual opportunist who can conveniently disable his moral and ethical compasses at will for a self-perceived personal advantage. Speaking as someone who's worked for elected officials as long as I have, yeah, that concerns me. Once upon a time, Sen. Bob Packwood was great on the issues, too.

    If you want to rationalize what Newsom did for whatever your reasons, that's entirely your business and I respect that decision. I would simply ask that you afford me the same respect, when I say that I would prefer to support someone else during the 2018 Democratic gubernatorial primary.



    Not rationalizing (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by MKS on Wed May 10, 2017 at 06:59:15 AM EST

    And you are obviously free to support whomever you choose.


    From (none / 0) (#89)
    by FlJoe on Thu May 11, 2017 at 05:55:59 AM EST
    the Pucker up for Putin files,

    When President Donald Trump hosted Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in the Oval Office on Wednesday just hours after firing the FBI director who was overseeing an investigation into whether Trump's team colluded the Russians, he was breaking with recent precedent at the specific request of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

    The chummy White House visit--photos of the president yukking it up with Lavrov and Russian Ambassador to the United States Sergey Kislyak were released by the Russian Foreign Ministry since no U.S. press was allowed to cover the visit--had been one of Putin's asks in his recent phone call with Trump, and indeed the White House acknowledged this to me later Wednesday. "He chose to receive him because Putin asked him to," a White House spokesman said of Trump's Lavrov meeting. "Putin did specifically ask on the call when they last talked."

    They let Russian electronic equipment (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by ruffian on Thu May 11, 2017 at 07:42:31 AM EST
    and operators into the Oval Office. Think about that. Maybe I've seen too many episodes of The Americans, but that seems like a dream scenario for planting a bug.

    but why do they need a bug? (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 11, 2017 at 08:41:09 AM EST
    they have an agent.

    but the other thing (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 11, 2017 at 08:41:56 AM EST
    so so good this year.

    Kind of a slow burn (none / 0) (#96)
    by ruffian on Thu May 11, 2017 at 12:28:56 PM EST
    but I am liking it. Loved that wedding scene.

    This is not going to end well for our favorite spies, is it?


    unclear (none / 0) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 11, 2017 at 01:02:11 PM EST
    She gets killed/He ends up back (none / 0) (#114)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 11, 2017 at 11:19:19 PM EST
    In mother Russia where self awareness is a big miserable making negative. Lose/Lose. The kids go on without them. Paige suffers endlessly knowing what happened and dedicates her life to whatever the pastor says. Genius son believes a tall tale, enriches capitalism, mostly forgets about them. Lose/Lose

    Amazing (none / 0) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 11, 2017 at 08:47:37 AM EST
    Putin asked Trump for a meeting and he did what Putin wanted and the press actually reported it. The press reporting it is the most amazing part.

    But (none / 0) (#94)
    by FlJoe on Thu May 11, 2017 at 08:59:13 AM EST
    tRump is the real victim here
    WH furious over Russian government photos of Trump meeting with Lavrov/Kislyak. "They tricked us," an official said of Russians "They lie."
    The lying press knows no borders.

    Gee, the Russians (none / 0) (#98)
    by KeysDan on Thu May 11, 2017 at 01:35:52 PM EST
    tricked Trump et al.  Which quote comes to mind first: "I have a really good brain,"   "I am a great negotiator," "Putin is, at least, a leader."

    From our "Tone Deafcom 5" file: (none / 0) (#103)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 11, 2017 at 06:37:46 PM EST
    In a bold move to prove to Americans across the country that it's not just Trump and the Republicans in D.C. who've put to sea without mainsail, rudder and compass, a newly formed Republican Platform Caucus in the Oklahoma legislature, presently comprised of 22 GOP State House members, is currently promoting an idea that would turn over 82,000 non-English speaking children in the state to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents.

    It's too bad we can't build a border wall around Oklahoma Republicans.

    My spouse told me tonight that word (none / 0) (#104)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 11, 2017 at 06:44:35 PM EST
    Floating around the Army is that Bannon wants McMaster gone, hates him, and infighting with Bannon backstabbing is starting. I Googled McMaster infighting and there are a few news reports on some speculation. General McMaster has been in the worst muck and hell though, and survived and led. Does Steve Bannon actually outwit and backstab him to career death? Because he'd be done after that. He didn't make promotion. He was getting out until Trump selected him.

    Why am I more downhearted about that than Trump firing someone who could actually hold him to some accountability? Feels really hopeless I guess. I know McMaster could curse Bannon through a wall. He's very intelligent but my spouse says he cusses like a wild heathen when ticked.

    If Trump fires McMaster though....I dunno. I suppose the FBI and the US Army will have something in common, a shared deer in the headlights shock.

    Also, Bannon hates Mattis but Mattis isn't in range. Bannon can't get anything useable to attempt to damage Mattis with.....yet.

    personally (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 11, 2017 at 06:48:55 PM EST
    i doubt that ever happens.  but if it does it will be short lived.  

    i think he and a couple of others must be fully aware they are what they are carrying.


    I would have never foreseen Comey (none / 0) (#106)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 11, 2017 at 07:08:11 PM EST
    Getting fired.

    My spouse is a peer with someone close to McMaster. So I know the Army as a whole is going to get chafed, already is.

    I just read a rundown from The Hill and had a giggle. They quoted a past member of the Trump transition team saying McMaster won't survive the press. And Bannon represents a constituency and McMaster only represents 1,000 DC "people".

    That's just another "planted story". Nobody survives bad press like the US Army...let's see, Abu Ghraib, Fallujah, Rape Crisis....and on and on. Not that I think those are good things, but don't try to sell me that a US General at this point in our history doesn't know how to handle some bad press.

    And has Bannon ever had to live with, work beside, and survive enough to thrive with personalities that clash with him? Because most successful soldiers have done that and can do that pretty well. Good luck Bannon.

    Truly though Captain, at the end of the day those who speak straight don't fair well with Trump. That's just reality.


    Just my opinion (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 11, 2017 at 07:14:15 PM EST
    But I think there are a few things he could do that would be deadly.  Firing the general would top that list.

    According to 'Foreign Policy' (none / 0) (#109)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 11, 2017 at 07:22:06 PM EST
    Trump wishes he had chosen Bolton for the position. He can still do that anytime he chooses Captain.

    Trump has a few more clashes with McMaster on policy with strokes from Bannon and he'll do it. He's a freakin idiot. But bad press won't eat McMaster's lunch and his "constituency" is the US Army but okay The Hill.


    If it came down (none / 0) (#117)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 12, 2017 at 12:12:05 PM EST
    publicly to McMaster vs. Bannon my money would be on the public backing McMaster and not Bannon. What the GOP would do about it is anybody's guess. As we've all seen they could not care one iota about the country and the people that reside in it.

    The GOP would remind everyone (none / 0) (#118)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 12, 2017 at 02:22:00 PM EST
    That McMaster was passed over for promotion until David Petraeus pitched a fit. Then they would remind us he missed getting his 4th star (cuz he's not a good butt kisser, not even close). His last job before they were about to kick him to the curb was to single handedly (fire thousands of Army pilots) downsize Army Aviation due to sequestration. Here's a duffle blog video making fun of how thankless and vile and resource-less his final assignment was.

    WARNING: A massive worldwide cyberattack ... (none / 0) (#124)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 12, 2017 at 06:42:28 PM EST
    ... employing the ransomware WannaCry has infected the United Kingdom's National Health Service, Spain's largest telecommunications firm Telefónica, and U.S. logistics giant FedEx, and it appears to be spreading rapidly. All told, tech systems in about 100 countries have been infected thus far.

    The ransomware, which first encrypts the victim's data and then demands a ransom to unlock it, has spread to at least 99 countries across the world as of Friday. The NHS has been all but shut down today, taking only emergency cases, and about 85% of Telefónica's computers have been affected.

    WannaCry's virulence appears to based in its exploitation of an existing flaw in Microsoft Windows operating software, which first infects the machine by encrypting all its files and then, using a remote command execution vulnerability through SMB, is distributed to other Windows machines on the same network.

    A snarky congratulations must be offered to our very own National Security Agency, which first spotted the design flaw in Windows software and sought to exploit it for its own use, only to see its secret stolen when NSA databases were subsequently hacked, likely by the Russians and their allies, who then naturally employed the very same exploit for their own ends.

    While this exploit was patched several months ago by Microsoft, those systems which have been infected by WannaCry appear to have not sufficiently updated their Windows software to install the fix, which rendered them vulnerable to this sort of attack.

    Therefore, to the extent possible, please protect your own computers by making sure that their Microsoft operating platforms are updated accordingly. Those of you who, like Jeralyn and Jim, have your own websites ought to further check with your ISPs or whoever hosts those websites to make sure that their own systems are sufficiently updated and protected from this insidious form of cyberattack, as well.


    good advice for windows users (none / 0) (#127)
    by linea on Fri May 12, 2017 at 09:03:08 PM EST
    i only buy apple macbook and iphone.

    Don't lean on that false confidence, linea. (none / 0) (#131)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri May 12, 2017 at 11:07:32 PM EST
    Mac users can be hacked, too -- and they are. It's not like it used to be, when PCs dominated 97% of the market and it really wasn't worth a hacker's time to develop malware for Apple-manufactured products. Once Apple cut substantially into that share, it was inevitable that Mac and iPhone users would be targeted as well.

    thanks donald (none / 0) (#153)
    by linea on Sat May 13, 2017 at 06:13:54 PM EST
    i loath windows.

    it's what they make you use at school and work (ugg).

    it was explained to me the windows operating system is running one-million DLL files on top an old DOS kernal. that's adorable but without the friendly paper-clip tapping on your screen, what's the point?

    macbook and iphone are all running on modified unix-linux clones. and i believe that is the case with Android phones too.


    We listened to Trump give the commencement (none / 0) (#133)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 13, 2017 at 10:36:23 AM EST
    At Liberty University, and rolled around the bed giggling. Because what else ya gonna do?

    He told Falwell Jr's wife to stand up in a semi derogatory tone. Claimed the family was very close to him and then read their names uber obviously off the teleptompter. Told the graduates he had made the commitment to be there with them a long long time ago, as if others were clamoring for his presence. Told the graduates boy they really voted too, at least those old enough to vote...their parents. My God, Donald Trump thinks the voting age is 21!

    Every sentence could have just as easily been out of an SNL cold open.

    is TrumpCare2 dead? (none / 0) (#160)
    by linea on Sun May 14, 2017 at 10:32:33 AM EST

    GOP representatives take a verbal beating at town halls across America -- House representatives tried to sell the Trumpcare to constituents this week. It went badly.

    Meadows was peppered with questions from the crowd. He told a nurse concerned about Medicaid that nothing would change in North Carolina because the state didn't opt in to Obamacare's Medicaid expansion, but he failed to mentioned that Trumpcare would also impose a per-capita cap on Medicaid spending and cut $880,000 billion from the program over all, which would have an impact on Medicaid.

    This type of dodge was typical throughout the week, as lawmakers stretched the truth to defend their decision to pass the bill without a current CBO score, to roll back Medicaid, and to dissolve protections on health insurance for people preexisting conditions. The CBO score for a previous, similar version of the bill estimated that it would cause 24 million fewer people to be insured by 2026. The new CBO score is expected the week of May 22.