Tuesday Open Thread

Trump continues to self-destruct and feed his aides to the wolves. Yesterday he sent staff out to make denials, only to personally admit today what they denied. Yesterday:

“I was in the room — it didn’t happen,” Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, Mr. Trump’s national security adviser, said in an appearance outside the West Wing, which was sent into chaos on Monday afternoon by reports that the president had disclosed extremely sensitive information about an Islamic State plot.

Trump today: I had every right to disclose whatever I disclosed to Russia.

Israel is the country whose intelligence information was exposed by Trump. [More...]

Has anybody confirmed the information was relayed or shared orally -- as opposed to demonstratively, such as he showed them a graphic or photograph containing classified information received from Israeli intelligence on how ISIS was going to build a laptop bomb? If it was a graphic, I wonder if his staff in the room even saw what was on it. Would Trump have let the Russians keep a copy? There are reports Trump might not have known the source, which also makes me wonder if he was sharing a photo or document, rather than just orally providing information. I doubt an intel document or photo would say "Israel" on it, so maybe he didn't know its origin. McMaster today:

"I should just make the statement here that the president wasn't even aware of where the information came from," he said. "He wasn't briefed on the source or method of the information either."

The Russians could probably identify both the source country and the method by which the information was collected. Especially since he purportedly also disclosed the city in Syria where ISIS was developing its plot.

In other news, Kimberly Guilfoyle of Fox News said during an interview with a California news station she's in talks to replace Sean Spicer. (no link, autoplay video.) She's has as much substance as Ms. Most Unimportant Person in the World, and a voice only slightly less annoying. That she used to be a prosecutor doesn't make her smart or a good strategist or possessed of good judgment. The show she is on now on Fox is the most banal of them all. A bunch of people having a coffee klatch and laughing at their own insider jokes. I change the channel immediately if it comes on Sirius. Bad choice by Trump if its true.

In other Trump news, Donald, Jr. was back in Dubai last week, giving the commencement address at an American school. I think anyone who believes the Trump Org. isn't going to open any foreign businesses during the next four years is drinking kool-aid.

Every day is a dismal news day now. Trump will traveling on his foreign tour soon. Let the foreign press have at him. We're already the laughing stock of the world thanks to Trump, how much worse can it get?

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    BREAKING: And the hits just keep on coming. (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue May 16, 2017 at 04:39:16 PM EST
    A memo from James Comey has apparently just been released / leaked, which purportedly states that Trump asked him to close the investigation into Gen. Flynn:

    New York Times | May 16, 2017
    Comey Memo Says Trump Asked Him to End Flynn Investigation - "President Trump asked the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, to shut down the federal investigation into Mr. Trump's former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, in an Oval Office meeting in February, according to a memo that Mr. Comey wrote shortly after the meeting. 'I hope you can let this go,' the president told Mr. Comey, according to the memo. The existence of Mr. Trump's request is the clearest evidence that the president has tried to directly influence the Justice Department and F.B.I. investigation into links between Mr. Trump's associates and Russia."

    Anyone who continues to defend this guy is obviously a big part of the problem, and should be treated accordingly.


    More (none / 0) (#11)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 16, 2017 at 04:54:02 PM EST
    to come
    Mr. Comey created similar memos -- including some that are classified -- about every phone call and meeting he had with the president, the two people said.

    On the brightside for tRump, loose-lips-gate has been knocked off the headlines.


    supposedly Burr just said (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:24:37 PM EST
    the burden is on the NYTimes to provide the memo.

    that seems more than anything like a slowball lined up to be knocked out of the park.

    setting aside the possibility of Comey confirming it in testimony.


    Easy (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:27:58 PM EST
    Peasy Burr, you can simply subpoena Comey's memos.Duh.

    reporting (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:30:47 PM EST
    Comey wants to testify.

    only in public.

    popcorn please.


    sure, still (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:44:57 PM EST
    raise your hand if you think they can not produce the memo.

    Breaking: NSA McMaster (none / 0) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:30:17 PM EST
    Broke with apolitical speechifying. Passionately defended President Trump in getting intelligence operatives and anyone else suspicious looking near an ISIS plot killed. Then discovered James Comey, being a member of the FBI, kept detailed memos of President Trump's attempts at obstruction of justice.

    He stole a gold pillow from a couch in the oval office, ran into the situation room and locked himself in. White House aides are now turning up the volume on televisions trying to drown out the muffled screams before the press hears him.


    I could actually believe this (none / 0) (#26)
    by MKS on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:49:56 PM EST
    so weird is everything around the Cheeto.

    Seriously MT (none / 0) (#30)
    by smott on Tue May 16, 2017 at 06:26:07 PM EST
    What is your take on McMaster, up til now well respected as a straight shooter.
    As was Rosentstein similarly respected, and both now have apparently flushed their reputations in the service of our grotesque excuse for a CIC.

    I'm no longer able to think they're playing some Obama Long Game 37-dimensional Chess that might actually nail Trump.

    What say you?


    HR McMaster only "GOOD" (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 01:22:34 AM EST
    If his CIC is "GOOD". Typical jarhead, the worst militaty mindset. He's a  soldier scholar but can't see past small scale cog in the mechanism soldier. Will be shocked and butt hurt when he is held accountable for anything that went down today. Does not understand the enormity of his new position. Served his CIC today in a Tom Clancy fashion, then got on the copter that flew directly to and into the Washington Monument... just for shits and giggles fun.

    A great low ranking soldier. A horrible high ranking citizen of this democracy. Clueless of the basic needs of democracy outside of standing on the wall. Everyone thought he was something better, not just deep, but wide too. Cuz Petraeus said so. Turns out he's just a blow hard, lacking basic understandings.

    Petraeus "saved" McMaster. McChrystal saved Flynn. Both saved visited such horrible incompetence on this democracy I forgive neither. Get over yourselves. Just because you feel "friendly" doesn't mean they are competent. Both Flynn and McMaster peaks horribly of Petraeus competence.


    ... to bet the family farm on Trump. Yep, the timing of his public support couldn't have been any more impeccable. The guy now reminds me of Colin Powell, when he chastised the United Nations about Iraqi WMDs.

    I have nothing much to add (none / 0) (#82)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 01:32:42 AM EST
    Other than my firm opinion that he's a blatant fucking toxic leader idiot from hell. Headed back to hell very soon.

    Just flat out incompetent on all levels other than sucking President Trump's BLANK. Has no clue about governance of democracy or rule of law and doesn't care, or he'd have those aides.

    Incapable of adequately serving in any office of governance in a successful democracy.


    Wow! (none / 0) (#121)
    by smott on Wed May 17, 2017 at 03:35:19 PM EST
    Glad I asked! I think.

    Seriously MT thanks for the honest view.

    Dare I ask you about Mattis???


    good luck (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:42:23 PM EST
    naming a new FBI director Orange Boy.

    The dates are interesting. (none / 0) (#28)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 16, 2017 at 06:05:35 PM EST
    January 27, 2017, Trump/Comey dinner at the WH residence.  (Loyalty, Honesty, no Honest Loyalty); February 14, Trump/Comey Oval Office (Flynn is a nice guy, let him go).

    How did Comey plan to use this information if he had been able to stay on?  Maybe, was the cause for intensifying the investigation, and, then, too, there was Sally Yates' testimony.


    I do not understand why (none / 0) (#91)
    by ding7777 on Wed May 17, 2017 at 11:22:55 AM EST
    Comey would have dinner,meetings, and phone calls with Trump since he thought Bill Clinton meeting with Loretta Lynch was very wrong

    I don't think he meant to "use" it (none / 0) (#93)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 11:34:10 AM EST
    Just keeping a record for posterity. He's done this when Presidencies have been unethical before. And history, all of us, rewarded him for it.

    Nobody is going to arrest the President. We say our President isn't above the law, but our President is. The only judgement for Trump right now is looking us all in the eye when we all know.

    Trump did the most unethical thing, and now we all know. All of us. And we can use this knowledge in our future decision making. All of us


    i disagree (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 11:38:09 AM EST
    i think Comey has seen this coming.   possibly since the election.  IMO he made these extensive records because he saw this coming.

    i am aware he is well known for doing this but IMO this is "other".


    Not what I'm saying (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 12:04:23 PM EST
    He made the records because the truth is the only justice available right now. Everyone who has the memo has already said he thought where we are right now was possible.

    But on torture and Ashcroft, he was right about that stuff too. He called it where they were going, how history would judge them all. And he wrote all that down too.

    When chits going bad and Comey gets unethical vibes, he writes it all down and it becomes part of the public record.


    I think (none / 0) (#99)
    by FlJoe on Wed May 17, 2017 at 11:57:43 AM EST
    Comey has long been obsessed with CYA, I would argue that was a main driver of his antics in the e-mail investigation.

    I would agree (none / 0) (#110)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed May 17, 2017 at 01:10:54 PM EST
    with you on that. He's one of those note people that write down a lot of stuff.

    Santorum is on the tube (none / 0) (#102)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 12:07:14 PM EST
    Saying Comey was trying to be Hoover. I'm like....whatever, this "record" was not going to get Trump arrested or charged with anything.

    Santorum (none / 0) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 12:17:58 PM EST
    the frothy by product of....

    whatever.  i agree with you about Comy.


    Whats funny is that (none / 0) (#113)
    by jondee on Wed May 17, 2017 at 01:28:45 PM EST
    if Santorum had actually known Hoover, he would've fought for first place in line to do what Mozart described: "lech mir den arsch fein recht schon sauber"

    His eyes were all lit up (none / 0) (#123)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 04:43:50 PM EST
    He was getting off on being a troll again. Comey was painted in a corner. A high power corner sure, but still in an effed place.

    The extreme satisfaction he gets out of telling rape victims it's their fault is repulsive.


    Alan Dershowitz (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:34:16 PM EST
    really needs to just STFU

    you failed to provide any reference or link (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by linea on Tue May 16, 2017 at 07:25:22 PM EST
    so i googled and found this:

    Alan Dershowitz: This is the most serious charge ever made against a sitting president, let's not minimize it. Comey is in the wastebasket of history, everything else is off the table. This is the most serious charge ever made against a sitting president of the United States. Let's not underestimate it.

    Erin Burnett: So Alan, what does that mean, though? Because you're saying this is the most serious charge ever made against a sitting president, and yet it's not criminal, it's not impeachable.

    Dershowitz: It's not criminal. That's right.

    Burnett: But it is more serious than things that were?

    Dershowitz: Absolutely right, absolutely right.

    Not what he said on Greta's show (none / 0) (#50)
    by MKS on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:19:22 PM EST
    on MSNBC.

    Sounds like he is changing his tune.


    i gave that comment a 5 (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:28:24 PM EST
    only because it totally, and perhaps unintentionally - who really knows, supported my comment it was replying to.

    why are you so mean go me? (none / 0) (#70)
    by linea on Tue May 16, 2017 at 10:11:44 PM EST
    why can't you accept that i can be nuanced? do you treat your daughters like this! you go out of your way to frustrate and upset me.

    Linea (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed May 17, 2017 at 09:17:24 AM EST
    with all due respect maybe blogging is not for you. Everybody here has been the subject of an attack myself included. You just have to brush these things off and move on. It is just someone on a blog after all.

    I'm gay (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 10:19:59 PM EST
    No daughters.  The gender card won't work. I actually made no assumption about yours don't get into mine.

    I will not blog clog with you.  This is a public forum.  You don't want opinions of your opinions, don't offer them.


    Just because the victim/gender ... (none / 0) (#74)
    by Yman on Tue May 16, 2017 at 11:00:24 PM EST
    ... card won't work, doesn't mean she won't try it anyway.



    still laughing about beer (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 11:21:09 PM EST
    ftr i hate beer

    you arent fair (none / 0) (#76)
    by linea on Tue May 16, 2017 at 11:28:16 PM EST
    You don't want opinions of your opinions, don't offer them.

    you didnt offer an opinion on my assertion. you just called me stupid. you're just being meam. you're just picking on me because it's easy.


    the lame (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 11:39:41 PM EST
    transparently manipulative passive aggressive victim BS wont work either.

    and you dont understand the term (none / 0) (#78)
    by linea on Wed May 17, 2017 at 12:01:02 AM EST
    "passive aggressive" - it means an indirect display of agression or hostility. for example, a 1970s housewife wants a vacation but when her husband explains they cant afford a vacation she "accidentally" burns his toast at breakast.

    you are a contrarian. nothing you post is helpfull.


    Amen! (none / 0) (#24)
    by MKS on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:48:19 PM EST
    It is not just about criminal charges, which is what Dershowitz is talking about....Just ask Nixon......

    Even Cheeto apologist Greta can't take Dershowitz.


    the best is (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:56:09 PM EST
    Bill Kristol laughing in his bulbous face.

    ... who has been diagnosed with Stage 4 kidney cancer, and is currently in Georgetown University Hospital undergoing surgery to remove her right kidney. She's one of the good guys.

    I am so sorry to hear this about Mazie. (none / 0) (#128)
    by caseyOR on Wed May 17, 2017 at 08:27:24 PM EST
    I hope the surgery is successful and she recovers. She has been a excellent voice on the Judiciary Committee.

    G W Bush tweet on Ailes (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 18, 2017 at 01:30:11 PM EST
    George Bush ✔ @GeorgeHWBush
    He wasn't perfect, but Roger Ailes was my friend & I loved him. Not sure I would have been President w/o his great talent, loyal help. RIP

    you can be sure.  so can agent orange.

    send us a postcard from --- Rog

    No chocolate for you! (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by Chuck0 on Thu May 18, 2017 at 04:55:11 PM EST
    Cheeto in chief said twice in remarks with the Colombian president that we had to eradicate the production of cocoa in Colombia. Can this clown be any dumber?

    DAY-UM (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 03:58:52 PM EST
    damn damn damn

    i have waited for a week for my first trash pickup day - today - and some how complwtely missed it and the fact that its tues-freakin-day till i saw this.

    i was like Darth Vader


    According to The Hill (none / 0) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 16, 2017 at 04:12:13 PM EST
    Bibi is livid about all this. However Bibi should have known all this when it comes to Trump.

    The GOP has pretty much said that they are fine with Trump giving intel to Russia as long as they pass tax cuts and healthcare reform aka Trumpcare.

    livid about what exactly (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 04:15:43 PM EST
    the fact Agent Orange did it?  the resulting firestorm?  

    i refuse to web search Bibi just crrious.


    The fact (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 16, 2017 at 04:26:44 PM EST
    that Trump gave intel to Russia would could be then passed onto Iran or so they think. I think the whole situation. Bibi actively supporting the GOP has come back to bite him big time.

    well (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 04:38:01 PM EST
    if Bibi is pi$$ed lets take the silver linings we get.

    About the lout handing Israeli intel (none / 0) (#20)
    by Towanda on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:31:33 PM EST
    to Russia. Israel was the source.

    And Israel's worst enemy is Iran, Russia's friend.

    The deaths of Israelis will be on his orange head. Frankly, security issues arising from this ought to put a stop to the lout's trip to Israel . . . in addition to the insult of him going there.


    Bibi seems a fan (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 09:16:04 PM EST
    By the time he gets there Orange may have to ask him for asylum

    And, Mitch McConnell's (none / 0) (#25)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:49:46 PM EST
    wife, Elaine Chao, is Secretary of Transportation in Trump's cabinet. So, there is co-opting like a player in a Greek tragedy.  And, the Irish Undertaker, Paul Ryan, sees his Ayn Rand dream of eliminating social security and medicare coming true, or at least, making them unrecognizable. So, they just don Don's Make America Great Again hat and lead the anti-democratic insurgency called the Republican party.

    Israel (none / 0) (#31)
    by smott on Tue May 16, 2017 at 06:30:49 PM EST
    Will never give us f-ck all intelligence info about anything until Trump is gone.

    Trump may likely (none / 0) (#32)
    by smott on Tue May 16, 2017 at 06:34:32 PM EST
    Have gotten sources killed with his ignorant jr high braggadocio.

    Violation of Oath of Office.

    But the GOP will never impeach


    We shouldn't ask that question, Jeralyn, ... (none / 0) (#4)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue May 16, 2017 at 04:17:58 PM EST
    Jeralyn: "[H]ow much worse can it get?"

    ... because whenever we do so, Trump has displayed an almost uncanny knack for then showing us exactly how.


    They said (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Repack Rider on Tue May 16, 2017 at 04:45:27 PM EST
    "Cheer up, it could be worse."

    So he cheered up and it got worse.


    just saw what is i guess (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 04:40:47 PM EST
    the only republican willing to stick their head up today.

    came down to one talking point

    the National Security Advisor say he did nothing wrong.  so end of conversation.  but Hillary.....

    that McMaster sure is a swell guy and a paragon of freakin virtue.

    Apparently (none / 0) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:10:04 PM EST
    Fox News has gone all Hillary conspiracy theory and is doing no reporting on Trump and Putin. So that should explain some of it.

    There are no words (none / 0) (#9)
    by Repack Rider on Tue May 16, 2017 at 04:44:18 PM EST
    We need new words to describe the levels of failure in the White House.  Nothing in the dictionary seems adequate.  I am submitting "treasincompetence" as my entry in the meme lexicon.

    there is a word (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:25:47 PM EST

    seriously (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:30:00 PM EST
    if anyone has not seen this movie

    you really should.

    in 10 years they will be playing it in HS civics classes.  assuming ther are still HS civics classes in 10 years.


    The most popular tv show (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by jondee on Wed May 17, 2017 at 12:41:37 PM EST
    in the movie "Ow! My Balls!" is pretty much what the whole Jackass franchise is about.

    Were this a championship boxing match ... (none / 0) (#29)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue May 16, 2017 at 06:20:00 PM EST
    ... between the White House and Intelligence Community, I'd say that the IC just delivered three straight hard blows to Trump's head. Should this steady stream of bombshell disclosures continue, it would not surprise me in the slightest if Air Force One's destination is changed on Friday from Riyadh to Moscow, so that Trump can request asylum.

    Respectfully Donald (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by smott on Tue May 16, 2017 at 06:39:44 PM EST
    You're dreaming.
    No one will impeach him. Failing that -
    The Senate would have to vote to allow SAA to arrest him, which isnt happening.
    He's got pardons already lined up for everyone in his cabal to save them from federal charges.

    The ONLY thing left is NY AG and the RICO charges. Here's hoping they're wide-spread!

    But this Republican House will never put their country above their party.



    i disagree (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 06:49:56 PM EST
    but wait (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 06:55:54 PM EST
    you could be right about Ryans house.  but i disagree the other options are as limited as you say.  the FBI is pi$$ed.  this is now very personal for them.  and the rest of the intel community has pretty much had it.  

    months ago, during the campaign, i said if you f@ck with the intel community they will f@ck with you.  president or not.  they will win.  period.  they will.  politicians make nooze.  the intel community rules the world.  Orange Boy is about to learn that.


    if this is true (none / 0) (#46)
    by linea on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:00:14 PM EST
    than the intelligence community should be abolished.

    Sanders once urged abolishing CIA

    by CaptHowdy
    the FBI is pi$$ed.  this is now very personal for them.  and the rest of the intel community has pretty much had it. months ago, during the campaign, i said if you f@ck with the intel community they will f@ck with you.  president or not.  they will win.  period.  they will.  politicians make nooze.  the intel community rules the world.

    holy hell (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:04:36 PM EST
    unpacking the stupid in those two comments would take way longer than im willing to provide.  

    go with Czernobog


    that being (none / 0) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:06:42 PM EST

    that being (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:07:16 PM EST
    #42 & #46

    dumfam (none / 0) (#59)
    by linea on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:50:49 PM EST
    you claim that the intell community manipulates the elected government and rules the world and when i assert that if this true the intelligence communities need to be abolished... SO YOU CALL ME STUPID?

    you and your slavic god should learn some manners. im sorry you are such a bad-tempered, difficult, cantankerous person.


    technically (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:56:46 PM EST
    i called your comments stupid.  

    dont be sorry.  im not.


    döda dig själv! (none / 0) (#66)
    by linea on Tue May 16, 2017 at 09:16:15 PM EST
    you are acting like as ass. i have a right to my opinion without being called stupid. i even provided a link to an article to buttress my position.

    You have a right to your opinion (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 09:20:20 PM EST
    There is no right to not having it called a stupid opinion.

    Welcome to amurka


    NOT IN MY AMERICA (none / 0) (#72)
    by linea on Tue May 16, 2017 at 10:33:59 PM EST
    i do have a right to my opinion and i also have a right to not have a horrible cantankerous person CALL ME STUPID because he thinks it's perfectly reasonable that my country is manipulalted and controlled by an unchecked intelligence apparatchik.

    assuming that's true. my position is, that if this 9th-circle-of-hell is the status quo... it needs to be dismantled. but oh no! capt howdy is too busy drinking beer. you treat me poorly and it's not appreciated!!


    beer (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 10:45:31 PM EST

    ok j
    im done.  but seriously...beer?


    im done with you too!! (none / 0) (#80)
    by linea on Wed May 17, 2017 at 12:28:41 AM EST
    keri persse! sa panid mind nutma.

    You speak both Swedish and (none / 0) (#125)
    by Peter G on Wed May 17, 2017 at 07:32:48 PM EST
    Estonian? Very impressive. (I thought you had immigrated from Norway; perhaps I got that wrong.) Access to a variety of language for parlaying crude insults is a very useful skill!

    Nope - you are correct (none / 0) (#133)
    by Yman on Wed May 17, 2017 at 09:41:14 PM EST
    Norway was the story.

    With enchiladas (none / 0) (#89)
    by MKS on Wed May 17, 2017 at 10:19:43 AM EST
    on the beach....Dos Equis....Not bad.

    It's not nice to be a beer snob.


    hope this does not offend you (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 11:24:58 AM EST
    but for the longest time i "thought" (to the extent i thought about it which is almost not at all) you were a female.

    clearly i was not reading your comments closely enough.

    you are totally a guy.

    i drink for the same reason i do any of the other drugs i routinely do.  to get drunk.  i dont really "like" the taste of any alcohol, with the possible exception of properly mixed Kalua.

    people have tried to get me to understand beer since i was about 12.

    i dont get it.  

    shots.  even of good liquor.  i sometimes do mixed drinks but rarely and usually not to offend whoever made them.


    i do like (none / 0) (#95)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 11:45:36 AM EST

    and like Pot Roast have been refining the perfect Martini for years.


    MKS (none / 0) (#98)
    by MKS on Wed May 17, 2017 at 11:55:25 AM EST
    looks like "Mrs."  Perhaps the reason....

    I also imagined you as female, MKS (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Peter G on Wed May 17, 2017 at 07:39:58 PM EST
    Which is a compliment.

    Like I have (none / 0) (#127)
    by MKS on Wed May 17, 2017 at 08:16:03 PM EST
    a high EQ?  Ha!

    I am absolutely sure (none / 0) (#129)
    by Peter G on Wed May 17, 2017 at 09:01:09 PM EST
    that I could not articulate or explain why I thought so.

    Same here (none / 0) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 09:02:43 PM EST
    Like I said, to the extent I thought about it which was not at all.

    I never thought for a second that MKS (none / 0) (#134)
    by vml68 on Wed May 17, 2017 at 10:04:19 PM EST
    was female. My very unscientific and probably sexist theory, the capitalized "MKS"(I am assuming his initials) seem very aggressively masculine.

    MKS are the consonants (none / 0) (#139)
    by MKS on Thu May 18, 2017 at 10:21:20 AM EST
    of the name of a household pet.  

    I think female and male posters may perceive me differently.


    Which just goes to show, that (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by Peter G on Thu May 18, 2017 at 11:04:17 AM EST
    on the Internet, no one knows you're a dog.

    LOL! (none / 0) (#175)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun May 21, 2017 at 04:26:34 PM EST
    recently (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 12:23:19 PM EST
    i was having a conversation with my "guy" doctor.  who is also my friend who I really like and actually see socially, about my drinking habits and the health impacts of same.  you might remember (or not) i recently had the Mother of All Kidney Stones.  one of the treatments for this os fluids.  and lots of them.  Chris said, "why dont you dringk beer?  it would help with the fluids thing"

    "yeah, i hate beer"

    puzzled look as if i was speaking Swahili


    Beer, like coffee, is an acquired taste. (none / 0) (#174)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun May 21, 2017 at 04:08:16 PM EST
    That said, is you're going to drink either beverage, let it be one you actually like. I'd no sooner drink a can of Coors, than I would consume a cup of piping hot Maxwell House. I consider both to be an affront to good taste, literally and figuratively.

    Call me a snob if you must, but if I learned nothing else in college, it's that when it comes to imbibing -- whether it be coffee, alcohol or cannabis -- I very much prefer quality over quantity.



    I have become a coffee snob (none / 0) (#176)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 21, 2017 at 04:32:44 PM EST
    Don't remember being so much in the past.

    So also say I love good wine.  But I hardly even consider that alcohol

    As far beer, IMO the dark expensive stuff is worse than  Bud.


    Never going to happen. (none / 0) (#84)
    by Chuck0 on Wed May 17, 2017 at 08:28:52 AM EST
    There have been spies as long as there have been governments and armies. The ancient Greeks, Romans and Egyptians all had some kind of "intelligence community."

    Puts me in mind of the old joke.. (none / 0) (#101)
    by jondee on Wed May 17, 2017 at 12:04:27 PM EST
    about the cannibal mother talking to her son: "But son, we cannibals have Always eaten people!"

    Speaking of jokes (none / 0) (#177)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 21, 2017 at 04:35:10 PM EST
    I just watched last weeks Leftovers.

    What is the difference between a priest and a pimple?


    Of course (none / 0) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 16, 2017 at 07:00:21 PM EST
    they are never going to put the country above the party. However there is something called self preservation and if they think it's between them and Trump, they are going to dump Trump.

    i used to think so (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 07:11:18 PM EST
    but i really think that may no longer be the world we live in.  lets be honest, if facts or logic or justice or shame or whatever had any traction in the republican base Trump would not be president.  i begin to think they, perhaps rightly believe, nothing matters.  nothing. nothing but tribal partisanship.  
    obviously there could be events easily imaginable that would force them to rethink that.  but IMO we aint there yet.
    unless legal matters overtake this i can easily see this coming down to who votes in 2018.



    Well (none / 0) (#43)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 16, 2017 at 07:42:01 PM EST
    I was thinking that something legal would have to happen. I guess I wasn't clear about that. But yeah, Trump giving aid to the enemy? No problem. Breaking the emoluments clause? No problem. Stealing all the silver out of the white house? No problem.

    Seriously I have a few of those on social media and I know. Trump was correct when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue. I might be the only true thing he said in the last 18 months.


    Did I say that he'd be impeached? (none / 0) (#38)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue May 16, 2017 at 07:13:59 PM EST
    No, I didn't. Please don't put words in my mouth.

    i vagt recall a (none / 0) (#42)
    by linea on Tue May 16, 2017 at 07:39:13 PM EST
    intelligence community power-play in the early days of the obama administrations. im not sure what's going on but the I.C. isnt a branch of government and if the are pulling shenanegans and getting involved in politics (i read these departments are moslty staffed with evengelicals and libertarians) then all these departments need to be disbanded. in my opinion.

    great idea (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 07:53:27 PM EST
    lets "disband" the intelligence community.

    we could just ask our global adversaries what we want to know, rght?  why wouldnt that work?


    you donkey (none / 0) (#61)
    by linea on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:54:42 PM EST
    yes, disband and disbanded are the correct spellings.

    Though I wonder... (none / 0) (#88)
    by kdog on Wed May 17, 2017 at 09:53:01 AM EST
    if we'd have so many adversaries without the "intelligence" community and a military industrial complex making trouble for over 70 years.  

    I'm with your whipping girl...disband and evolve.  High risk perhaps, but also high reward.

    Just because The Chump is bad news, that don't make the shadow government good news all of a sudden.  They can both be swamp creatures in a swamp in need of an epic drain.


    good luck with that (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 10:59:11 AM EST
    You might as well cut to the chase (none / 0) (#97)
    by jondee on Wed May 17, 2017 at 11:54:45 AM EST
    and say lets get rid of violence, fear, dishonesty, greed, egoism, and ignorance.

    You'd have to get rid of the human race to (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by vml68 on Wed May 17, 2017 at 01:42:48 PM EST
    lets get rid of violence, fear, dishonesty, greed, egoism, and ignorance.

    achieve this.


    One step at a time Jondee.. (none / 0) (#111)
    by kdog on Wed May 17, 2017 at 01:22:19 PM EST
    one step at a time...disbanding the CIA would be a small leap forward on that eternal mission.

    Speaking of "Russian meddling" (none / 0) (#116)
    by jondee on Wed May 17, 2017 at 01:52:53 PM EST
    we happened to catch The Falcon and The Snowman on the tube the other night, and were reminded of the efforts of our CIA in the seventies to undermine that scourge of democracy, the Australian Labor Party..

    Which got me thinking about the longstanding CIA tradition of having ex-Wall Street profits-before-people company men at the helm "making the hard decisions" about whats best for America.


    Amen... (none / 0) (#117)
    by kdog on Wed May 17, 2017 at 02:25:19 PM EST
    the hypocrisy over foreign meddling truly astounds.  Iran, Australia, Central America...show me a right to self-determination anywhere in the world our "intelligence" community hasn't tried to sh*t all over.  

    And the comparative total lack of concern as to the much more pervasive and effective Citizens United brand domestic meddling.  Why on earth would I worry about Pootie stealing our and democracy and puppeteering our president when there is a branch of shadow government right across the East River that done already helped steal it, and has been puppeteering presidents, legislators, and regulators since I was watching "Red Dawn" as a VHS new release in the 80's.


    ... and making an effort yourself to at least cast a vote for the Democratic candidate of your choice, rather than reclining on your sofa with your bong and a six-pack, dreaming up all-but-unattainable tasks for the rest of us to accomplish while you track our progress on TV and critique our shortcomings, would constitute that "small leap forward" you're talking about.

    Because unless and until you decide to put some skin in the game and contribute in some small yet meaningful way, rather than regale everyone with your moral superiority from the supine position of the barcalounger liberal, such suggestions as "disbanding the CIA" are not unlike the inebriated musings I used to hear from patrons back in the day when I held court behind the bar at Murphy's. From a practical standpoint, talk that cheap is neither productive nor helpful.

    So, here's the contact info for New York Democrats. You can get started today by filling out the boxes, and becoming informed about the various party activities which may be going on in your very own local community.

    Because this is what resistance actually looks like, kdog. It starts at home, by meeting with your like-minded friends and neighbors and making a difference through political organizing. Don't just talk. Do.



    I had an aunt ... (none / 0) (#57)
    by Yman on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:44:24 PM EST
    ... who read the craziest stuff online about the dangers of electricity.  She thought we needed to get rid of electricity.

    ha (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:48:25 PM EST
    are you a fan of Better Call Saul?

    Big fan (none / 0) (#64)
    by Yman on Tue May 16, 2017 at 09:10:33 PM EST
    The idea of disbanding our intelligence apparatus is right up there with some of Chuck McGill's ideas about electricity.

    I think that it was James Thurber's... (none / 0) (#122)
    by desertswine on Wed May 17, 2017 at 04:11:38 PM EST
    grandmother, in "My Life and Hard Times," who believed that electricity was leaking out of unused sockets.

    Watergate started out (none / 0) (#16)
    by MKS on Tue May 16, 2017 at 05:29:39 PM EST
    as a cheesy burglary.

    It was the subsequent attempt to derail investigation that brought Nixon down.

    after yesterday (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 07:31:36 PM EST
    and today the question we should be considering is

    what the f happens tomorrow

    "Tomorrow"? (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by Yman on Tue May 16, 2017 at 07:43:41 PM EST
    I keep wondering what the f is going to happen every time I hit the refresh key on the MSN page.

    Yes, and Comey (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:37:22 PM EST
    apparently, memorialized every meeting and conversation with Trump.  This was just the first to hit the NYTimes.  Sprinkling them out among WaPo, WSJ etc., will keep this spiraling downward, ending, the Trump Administration in effect, or, in fact.

    Makes me wonder (none / 0) (#55)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:41:11 PM EST
    if Comey did not deliberately lie in that testimony about Huma so he could get fired. You know sometimes it is easier to work on the outside than on the inside.

    Don't know (none / 0) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:39:20 PM EST
    if this counts but it says Trump's transition team was moving around classified information in DC without permission.

    What Nobody is Discussing (none / 0) (#54)
    by RickyJim on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:40:49 PM EST
    Is replacing Trump with Pence, this year, better for Republicans or Democrats?  Is it good for the country?

    Pence (none / 0) (#56)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:42:52 PM EST
    is dirty too. So no, replacing Trump with Pence will not be good for the country. The unfortunate thing is there are no good options for the country. The constitution has no way for handling this kind of mess.

    Truly the best thing would be to have another election but we can't do that. So here we are.


    We could be looking at... (none / 0) (#79)
    by desertswine on Wed May 17, 2017 at 12:20:38 AM EST
    President Hatch.

    Well, at least sane is better than insane (none / 0) (#131)
    by Lora on Wed May 17, 2017 at 09:14:13 PM EST
    About the only good thing I can say about Pence vs. Trump as president.

    I agree (none / 0) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed May 17, 2017 at 09:18:36 PM EST
    I can see no difference in the possible policy outcome.  At least Pence would not be a flat out embarrassment and walking insult to the office and the country.

    Besides, squat is getting done for the foreseeable future.  Thank you Prenit Orange


    I disagree... (none / 0) (#136)
    by kdog on Thu May 18, 2017 at 09:00:15 AM EST
    I could see a big difference in possible policy outcomes if Pence replaced Trump...all we got going for us right now is Trump's ADD and his bumbling, which is sabotaging the complete implementation of the McConnell/Ryan agenda.  Under Pence, there would be no stopping the bastards, because Pence knows how to play the game.

    there is an argument to be made (none / 0) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 18, 2017 at 09:37:21 AM EST
    that this Trump sh!tstorm, as bad as it is for the Rs, is actually saving them from an even worse fate, electoraly, which would be passing the bat sh!t crazy things they want to pass making a tsunami in 2018 an absolute certainty instaed of just very very very likely.

    in any case as i said IMO the possibility of them actually doing anything now is approaching absolute zero.

    and even if it wasnt i find the idea of tollerating Trump for one additional second for some percieved or expected political benefit would make us worse than them.  i am unable to imagine the mind of a person who would advocate that.


    Tolerating Trump... (none / 0) (#138)
    by kdog on Thu May 18, 2017 at 10:16:26 AM EST
    is an awful idea indeed...but this Pence mother*cker is pretty intolerable in his own right.  

    Intolerable and politically incompetent v. intolerable and politically competent...pick your poison.


    i dont even buy the premise (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 18, 2017 at 11:02:34 AM EST
    Pence has hardly been a shining light of competence.  before or after his Trump infamy.   he screwed himself as a governor to the point he was going to be routed in the coming election which is probably the major reason he was picked.

    most of the news today is chatter about his endless seemingly pointless but certainly serious lies since becoming VP.

    he is up to his t!ts in this and in my opinion will not be president whatever happens to Trump.  if you want to talk about potential president Ryan you might have a better argument.  but that doesnt scare me either.


    I'm glad (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 18, 2017 at 11:37:24 AM EST
    he's finally getting called on his lies. Tim Kaine had him pegged with that during the VP debate but the press wouldn't run with it.

    You are probably right, but (none / 0) (#160)
    by Lora on Fri May 19, 2017 at 09:51:38 AM EST
    At least I'd hope we wouldn't have to worry about WW III

    Also, consider... (none / 0) (#161)
    by Lora on Fri May 19, 2017 at 09:58:21 AM EST
    If Pence would be able to push through the right wing agenda better than Trump, why hasn't the GOP turned against Trump yet?

    My thoughts (none / 0) (#168)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 19, 2017 at 11:53:50 AM EST
    are there are some Trump supporters that are only Trump supporters and don't care for Pence. There was a poll a while back that showed something like the drop off in approval from Trump to Pence was at least 5 points maybe up to 7 points. With Trump's numbers they cannot afford to drop even five points. So the short of it would be that all the Pence supporters support Trump but not Trump supporters who would support Pence.  

    are you actully suggesting (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:54:06 PM EST
    we should ignore - insert endless list of unbelievably outrageous violtions of law and trust - just because not ignoring it might be "bad" for democrats?  or the "country"

    no (none / 0) (#62)
    by linea on Tue May 16, 2017 at 08:56:45 PM EST
    pence and paul ryan are worse.

    NOTHING! (none / 0) (#106)
    by Chuck0 on Wed May 17, 2017 at 12:29:21 PM EST
    Absolutely nothing is worse then Donald J tRump occupying the White House. Charlie Manson would be an improvement.

    If Trump ordered an attack (none / 0) (#108)
    by jondee on Wed May 17, 2017 at 12:35:18 PM EST
    on Roman Polanski's house, his base would cheer him putting the Gollywood elites in their place once and for all.

    Pence has charisma of (none / 0) (#68)
    by Coral on Tue May 16, 2017 at 09:36:31 PM EST
    a lump of coal. GOP will be severely weakened with DT resignation (which I sense is coming sooner than we expect).  I don't believe we will get to the point of articles of impeachment. He will resign for health reasons.

    I've been saying this for months (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue May 16, 2017 at 10:03:38 PM EST
    He will quit.  And I agree it could come soon because we are rapidly approaching the point were quitting might not save him from serious legal problems

    IF he was complicit it the Russian election stuff, for example, that seems pretty close to treason.

    And the sudden involvement of the international organization that monitors things like money laundering with the FBI investigation ....


    It is kind of strange (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed May 17, 2017 at 07:31:41 AM EST
    but it seems there are a chunk of Trump voters that do not care for Pence. Mostly the ones that are not evangelicals.

    It is my hope that the stink (none / 0) (#86)
    by Chuck0 on Wed May 17, 2017 at 08:40:31 AM EST
    of Trump permeates Pence as well. He will be unable finish out the term.

    How could it not? (none / 0) (#96)
    by jondee on Wed May 17, 2017 at 11:47:52 AM EST
    How (none / 0) (#103)
    by FlJoe on Wed May 17, 2017 at 12:10:01 PM EST
    could it not? The media just may portray him as the "adult in the room" who will rescue the country.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#107)
    by jondee on Wed May 17, 2017 at 12:30:33 PM EST
    there is that impulse in some circles to crave "stability" and normalcy and a return to business-as-usual above all things..

    I remember all the people during Iran Contra whose post-Watergate stress disorder kicked in and who could do nothing but fret about how much the investigations would permanently "damage the presidency" and cause people to "lose trust in their elected leaders."


    Chelsea Manning is free today. (none / 0) (#85)
    by Chuck0 on Wed May 17, 2017 at 08:39:10 AM EST
    Thank you President Obama.

    Joke of the Day... (none / 0) (#112)
    by kdog on Wed May 17, 2017 at 01:23:48 PM EST
    Why won't the Republican Congress impeach Donald Trump?

    ...Because Republicans believe every baby should be carried for the full term.

    Obviously (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by FlJoe on Wed May 17, 2017 at 01:37:47 PM EST
    with no exceptions for rape or to save the life of the country.

    Three Men & A Baby... (none / 0) (#119)
    by kdog on Wed May 17, 2017 at 02:37:09 PM EST
    That baby really tied the room (none / 0) (#120)
    by jondee on Wed May 17, 2017 at 03:21:36 PM EST
    together, and those Russian women peed on it.

    Russian Women... (none / 0) (#158)
    by kdog on Fri May 19, 2017 at 09:23:56 AM EST
    is not the preferred nomenclature Dude, Slavic-Byzantine Broads, if you please.

    All (none / 0) (#159)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 19, 2017 at 09:44:19 AM EST
    together now

    Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out
     They leave the west behind
     And Moscow girls make me sing and shout
     That Georgia's always on my my my my my my my my my mind

    Obama had his "apology tour" (none / 0) (#162)
    by jondee on Fri May 19, 2017 at 10:28:29 AM EST
    and Trump has urology tours.

    I suppose the germophobe rationale is that it's sterile.

    One might say Russia has staked out Trump the way a dog stakes out a fire hydrant.


    "Well I went home with a waitress... (none / 0) (#164)
    by kdog on Fri May 19, 2017 at 10:51:48 AM EST
    the way I always do.
    How was I to know,
    she was with the Russians too."

    I was watching an "Archer" ... (none / 0) (#172)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat May 20, 2017 at 08:47:17 PM EST
    ... marathon on FX last night, which included several hilarious episodes involving the title character's infatuation with a certain buxom and scantily clad KGB double agent named Katya Kasanova. Double entendres abound, and then she falls in love and runs off with Archer's nemesis Barry in a scene that pays homage to "The Graduate." "Archer" is one of my guilty TV pleasures.

    RIP, Chris Cornell (1964-2017). (none / 0) (#135)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 18, 2017 at 05:41:59 AM EST
    The lead singer and guitarist of Soundgarden, one of the premier bands that with Nirvana and Pearl Jam popularized and defined the Seattle grunge music scene in the early 1990s, died unexpectedly last night at age 52 of unknown causes in Detroit, only hours after Soundgarden performed in what would be his final concert.

    Ironically, Cornell's death came only one day after the band had dismissed an earlier false report of his demise as a cruel internet hoax. Sadly, this morning's report appears to be for real, as it has since been confirmed by Cornell's representative Brian Bumbery and Detroit police.

    Cornell's vocals were renowned for their 4-octave range. Here he is in two cameos from the 1992 Cameron Crowe film "Singles," a Gen. X romantic comedy set in Seattle during the height of grunge, which remains one of my guilty movie pleasures.

    A gifted musician, he will be missed.

    Found alone in his hotel bathroom (none / 0) (#143)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 18, 2017 at 11:54:58 AM EST
    with a band around his neck, according to the NYT...

    The Wayne County (MI) M.E.'s office ... (none / 0) (#153)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 18, 2017 at 05:13:30 PM EST
    ... has now officially ruled that Cornell's death was a suicide:

    "The Medical Examiner has completed the autopsy on 52-year-old Chris Cornell, the Soundgarden musician who died last night in Detroit. The cause of death has been determined as suicide by hanging. A full autopsy report has not yet been completed. There is no additional information at this time."



    in Times Square, one dead. Happened about 1/2 hour ago.

    Suspect in custody, 26 y/o Richard Rojas. (none / 0) (#147)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 18, 2017 at 01:37:18 PM EST
    19 injured, 1 dead. (none / 0) (#148)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 18, 2017 at 01:37:38 PM EST
    Protests after Officer Shelby found not guilty (none / 0) (#145)
    by McBain on Thu May 18, 2017 at 01:10:30 PM EST
    A jury late Wednesday acquitted a white Oklahoma police officer who says she fired out of fear last year when she killed an unarmed black man who had his hands above his head. The verdict led almost immediately to protests.

    This never looked long a strong case. The DA rushed to file charges before the investigation was complete.  When the toxicology report came back positive for PCP, there wasn't much change of a conviction.  Another misleading, politically motivated trial.

    Funny thing about opinions (none / 0) (#154)
    by Yman on Thu May 18, 2017 at 05:51:32 PM EST
    They're really no more convincing when someone states them as though they're facts, and they don't need to bear any relation to reality.

    More social justice warriors (none / 0) (#156)
    by jondee on Thu May 18, 2017 at 06:32:15 PM EST
    making a big deal over a run-of-the-mill murder.

    TRUE justice (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 18, 2017 at 06:45:04 PM EST
    True justice over social justice.  If that doesn't induce projectile vomiting you haven't eaten today.  

    Jurors in Shelby case releasing statements (none / 0) (#169)
    by McBain on Fri May 19, 2017 at 05:52:52 PM EST
    The jury foreman wrote this letter...
    The Jury concluded that any officer put in that situation at that exact moment and regardless of the skin color, gender or size of the suspect, would have performed the same way, which is in accordance with their law enforcement training

    serious consideration given to whether she be allowed to return to practicing law enforcement

    Another juror said this...

    We also didn't know how long we would have to deliberate," he said. "We were thinking `How long do we have to stay in here before they do a mistrial? I was kind of irritated because I was hungry, I was tired -- we all were -- and we kind of felt that we needed to just come to a decision."

    I don't like criticizing jurors but this wasn't a long trial or long deliberation.  An important decision shouldn't be made because someone is hungry and tired.  Sounds like this juror was on the fence but knew there wasn't going to be a conviction. Probably happens all the time.

    My complaint is this should have never gone to trial in the first place.  12 people had to stop their lives and come to a stressful decision because of politics.


    By//$hit (none / 0) (#170)
    by Yman on Fri May 19, 2017 at 08:12:55 PM EST
    Twelve people had to stop their lives and come to a stressful decision because a cop decided to shoot an unarmed man.

    Joe-mentum! (none / 0) (#151)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 18, 2017 at 05:01:41 PM EST
    Trump has indicated that 75-year-old former Sen. Joe Lieberman is his top choice as the new FBI Director. Sen. Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii) called the possible nomination "shocking."  

    just said this (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 18, 2017 at 05:07:31 PM EST
    in the other thread.

    hey democrats why dont you like this?  hes a DEMOCRAT.

    nothing pleases you guys.


    Yeah, cuz he's his own man (none / 0) (#163)
    by jondee on Fri May 19, 2017 at 10:38:05 AM EST
    he is a man? (none / 0) (#166)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 19, 2017 at 11:30:51 AM EST
    i thought (none / 0) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 19, 2017 at 11:43:48 AM EST
    I really thought he might nominate (none / 0) (#165)
    by jondee on Fri May 19, 2017 at 10:59:36 AM EST
    Joe Arpaio. Fabulous guy.

    He probably had to be talked out of it.


    ... for the NBA's Oklahoma City Thunder, was detained at an airport in Romania today by the police because his Turkish passport had been revoked.

    Was it only a coincidence that Kanter also so happens to be a prominent supporter of exiled Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen, and an outspoken critic of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan? I think not.

    This incident could've ended very badly for the young man, who's not been at all shy about sharing his opinion of Erdogan with the media, had he been sent by Romanian immigration officials to Turkey. Instead, having been barred from entering Romania, Kanter was eventually put on a flight to London. He's now on his way to the United States, where he'll hold a press conference in New York tomorrow.

    As it stands, however, because President Erdogan is a vindictive man with a very thin skin, Kanter -- who actually lives in Zurich, Switzerland -- is now effectively a man without a country.

    Given that we so often take for granted our own First Amendment right to free speech, let this be a timely reminder to us that it takes real courage and personal risk for many other people in the world to speak out against wrongdoing and injustice in their own countries. Enes Kanter deserves our admiration.


    TPM's Josh Marshall offers his own take ... (none / 0) (#173)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun May 21, 2017 at 03:48:34 PM EST
    ... regarding Deputy Atty. Gen. Rod Rosenstein's recent performances this week on Capitol Hill, which he characterizes as "a minor bureaucratic masterpiece and a tour de force of evasion":

    "What remains undiscussed through all of this is that Rosenstein knew that whatever Comey's errors, Comey was in fact being fired to stymie the investigation into Trump's and Trump's associates ties to Russia, and that Rosenstein chose to make himself a party to that bad act." (Emphasis is mine.)

    Yep. That about sums it up.

    Wizard of Lies (none / 0) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 21, 2017 at 04:37:32 PM EST
    Just saw the HBO movie with De Niro as Bernie Madoff.

    Pretty darn great.  Many excellent performances

    AV Club (none / 0) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun May 21, 2017 at 04:52:13 PM EST
    Wizard of Lies raises more questions than it answers


    i never followed this story very closely.  but i remember thinking the idea the two sons were completely innocent was ridiculous.  the movie, while it portrays this does not convince me.  i can believe his wife was ignorant.  not the sons.  just my opinion.

    still it was gripping from beginning to end.  Madoff is a monster.  the last line of the movie is perfect.  it asks a question and does not answer it but allows you to do that.  not a difficult question for me.


    He did that with his business as well as in his personal life. Sons Mark and Andrew managed the trading arm of Bernard Madoff Investment Securities, which was the one part of the operation that was legitimate. They were walled off from the rest of the operation by their father.

    Both sons were completely blindsided by Bernie's duplicity when his Ponzi scheme unraveled during the Fall 2008 economic crash. Neither of them ever spoke to their father again after the morning of December 8 of that year, when he confessed his crime to the family. In fact, they went straight to the feds that afternoon, and turned him in. Bernie was arrested by the FBI the following morning.

    When Mark attempted suicide in 2009, he left a note for his father which read:

    "Bernie: Now you know how you have destroyed the lives of your sons by your life of deceit. F--- you."

    That first attempt, done with sleeping pills, failed. The following year, on the second anniversary of his father's arrest, Mark hung himself with his dog's leash. His father-in-law, alerted by his daughter after she had received a distressing text message from her husband, had rushed to the family's apartment to try and stop him, but it was already too late. He found the body.

    You're right, Bernie Madoff was a monster. While his family certainly benefited personally in his ill-gotten gains, none of them had a clue that anything was amiss until he finally confessed to them that he was a fraud. While Ruth Madoff and her sons were never the focus of the FBI's criminal investigation, they essentially shared the fate of Bernie's victims, having also lost everything.



    yeah (none / 0) (#181)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon May 22, 2017 at 07:14:04 AM EST
    i saw the movie Donald.

    i call BS.  thats clearly what they wanted you to think.   i dont buy it.  clearly lots of others including the investigators in charge didnt either.
     he took the fall.  the least he could do i guess.

    i would recommend people the HBO movie.  and decide for yourself.


    this is what Sheehan (none / 0) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon May 22, 2017 at 07:27:36 AM EST
    the chief coulsel of the liquidator Picard said on 60 minutes
    "Of all the people that should have known, his brother and his sons who worked under the same roof with him, should have known," Safer noted.

    "One would think so," Picard said.

    Asked if the brother and sons did know, Sheehan said, "My belief is, yes, they knew. And the reason I believe that is they were officers of this, of these companies, and directors in certain instances as well, and also compliance officers in a very highly regulated environment. So, I think clearly they would have to have known what was going on given their own personal transactions, the longevity of what was happening, and the responsibilities as officers of the company."

    what he said


    also (none / 0) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon May 22, 2017 at 07:41:01 AM EST
    i said the movie portrayed them as innocent.  well, sort of.  it told the story more or less the way Donald just did.  but it left plenty of room for other viewpoints.  things that Madoff and his sons say on record.  like Bernie saying to the interviewer he never worried about legal danger to his family because he had made sure NOTHING COULD BE PROVEN.  true enough.

    as far as the sad fate of the sons, its very clear there could have been many reasons the one hanged himself.  like living a life of unbounded white priviledge and excess until he didnt and in addition being despised.  


    Well, I DIDN'T see the movie. (none / 0) (#184)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 22, 2017 at 02:23:30 PM EST
    I based my comments on the actual facts as I know them, and as they relate to a news story which by your own admission you did not follow closely at the time it occurred.

    Someone else's guilt isn't established solely on the basis of your own personal opinion, particularly when said opinion appears to be rooted at least in part upon your emotional response to a made-for-cable TV movie you just watched.

    Suffice to say that the FBI did in fact investigate this matter exhaustively, and subsequently determined that Bernie Madoff's wife and sons had no prior knowledge of and were not complicit in his Ponzi scheme.

    Both Ruth Madoff and the respective estates of her late sons were (and still are) civilly liable for Bernie's crimes, to the extent it can be established that whatever assets they held (and still hold) were (and are) derived directly from his fraud, i.e., the fruit of a poisonous tree.

    If you have any actual evidence conclusively showing Mark and Andrew Madoff's criminal culpability, I'd love to see it, as I'm sure would federal investigators as well. Failing that, your personal feelings about both the sons and the quality of said FBI investigation are immaterial and irrelevant -- or in your own words, "BS."



    maybe you should (none / 0) (#185)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon May 22, 2017 at 02:25:18 PM EST
    consider it

    just one other thing (none / 0) (#186)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon May 22, 2017 at 03:34:09 PM EST
    saying that i believe the sons knew is not the same as saying they were responsible.  quite a bit seems to have been said about that authors staunch defense of the family and their innocence.   quite a bit as in not everyone with knowledge of the events agree.  i quoted a couple.  

    there is a great scene in the book/film at Madoffs 50th anniversary party when one of the sons, the one who hanged himself, is eating.  a steak.  Madoff tells him he should be eating lobster.  the son rather meekly says he doesnt like lobster.  its like Madoff never even hears this.  he waves over a waiter and demands he take the steak he son is trying to eat away and bring him a lobster.  which he does and the son eats.

    IMO this scene is not about surf and turf.  its about the absolute utter control he weilded over both sons.  i agree with the investigators and the liquidator who said they thought the sons knew.  that doesnt necessarily mean they were in every sense guilty.  

    its perfectly easy to believe everything was done at Madoffs direction.  including turning him in to help bloster their story.