Friday Open Thread

How symptomatic of an insane Trump Administration that Trump would appoint little miss torture , praised by her colleagues for just following orders, to Deputy Director the CIA. I wrote a long post about it and Abu Zabaydah on my other computer and will publish it tonight. How did he really lose his eye? The CIA webpage has declassified transcripts of his review board hearing up and other documents showing his horrendous treatment. And Americans want to know, why do they hate us???? He has not even been charged with a crime.

El Chapo goes to court today. Why does he still have court appointed counsel? Because no lawyer can take a dollar on his behalf until he gets an OFAC license (google it)

The only show I watch while James Corden is out of town is El Chema on Telemundo. It's a good week, the cartel wars are starting with Feyo, the Robles brothers, the sick American and the sick DEA agent who as we all know from Senor de los Cielos, sells out and joins Chema.

I wonder what Trump will do if anyone ever tells him how many undocumented violent cartel guys are assured of remaining permanently in the U.S. following their prison sentences as part of their plea bargains allowing them to get lower sentences in exchange for telling "the truth" (from the Government's point of view.) In some cases, not just them, but their wives, kids, mothers, inlaws, and on and on. Answer: He can scream and rant, but he can't do anything about it. They are as free to roam the streets of Miami and elsewhere as he is.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Sen. Comm. Pushes Sessions Thru to Full Vote | Nordstrom Drops Ivanka Trump's Line >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    CentCom put video up they claimed (5.00 / 6) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 04:40:48 PM EST
    Was bomb making instructions that they seized in the Yemen raid. Journalists informed CentCom this video is nothing new, it's 10 yrs old, journalists covering Al Qaeda have seen it all before.

    CentCom has now taken down the evidence of the intel they collected that was worth killing an 8 yr old girl, a baby, and everyone else nearby for.

    Another good example of why the press (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Peter G on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 05:01:43 PM EST
    should just "shut up," right?

    They are bailing on the Correspondence dinner (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 06:10:35 PM EST
    If I was the Lugenpresse I wouldn't allow Steve Bannon to herd us all into a single enclosed area either. I am only half joking here.

    Samantha Bee (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by ding7777 on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 07:21:47 PM EST
    is having a "Not the White House Correspondents' Dinner" on the same date

    Kudos, MT, an 11 on the Nastymeter (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 09:10:08 AM EST
    You've got sharp, sharp elbows.  

    Our side needs sharp elbows.


    I am a nasty woman (5.00 / 4) (#75)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 07:21:23 PM EST
    Thinking about getting my first tattoo...Nasty Woman

    Our youngest (26-y/o) daughter (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 12:42:03 PM EST
    needlepointed a "Nasty Woman" wall hanging for her mother for Christmas. Well received by all.

    That is wonderful! (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Feb 06, 2017 at 01:03:57 PM EST
    How creative and unique. A family heirloom for sure.

    I'm with you (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 06, 2017 at 03:58:17 PM EST
    I might actually think about springing for that one and I loathe tattoos.

    Me too (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 07, 2017 at 01:47:11 AM EST
    I think they are yucky. I'm not sure I can die now though without being properly branded.

    I guess their estimation (none / 0) (#8)
    by jondee on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 05:04:19 PM EST
    of the intelligence of the average American has lowered considerably since the last election.

    It's like a bad dream all over again (none / 0) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 05:35:02 PM EST
    At the start of the Bush presidency CentCom just lied their asses off until their butt rotted off. How does this work? Oh boy...the CIC is a Republican again! Lying is allowed!

    I'm not even the one saying they're lying about the intel, it's other soldiers who are. You get intel when you have to call in jets and gunships and one SEAL is dead and 3 others are shot.


    The whole (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 06:17:32 PM EST
    thing is just tragic. People are all dead and for nothing.

    A fairytale (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 06:18:51 PM EST
    They are all dead for a fairytale right now.

    Not new or news, however (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 09:11:22 AM EST
    Half a million dead Syrians have piled up over the past few years.

    Helluva world...


    Had to let him go. Sad. (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by KeysDan on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 05:08:58 PM EST
    Two weeks ago, hired a new manager. an unorthodox hire, no experience for the job, but claimed he was great and we would win until we were sick of winning.

     Didn't get off to a good start, but hoped against hope he might make it. But,he immediately dropped associations and buyer groups. We could go it on our own, he said.

      He was very rude to even our best customers, insulting them and hanging up on them in mid-sentence. Told our banks we may not pay them back.  Nasty to suppliers, telling them that if they did not get our orders delivered more quickly, he would send our own security officers to break into their warehouse and get the supplies ourselves.  

    He insulted, at least, half of our customers, deriding the religions of some and showing partiality to the religions of others. Disdain was shown for all our non-white customers.

     He hired misfits and doofusses as assistants; and when questioned about anything, either he lied or got subordinates to do so for him.  And, he claimed he was a businessman, and we are a business, and should be run like a business.

     What a disaster. He came to us, albeit unsolicited, from the head hunting firm, of Comey and Putin, Ltd. I do not recommend them.

    Speaking of Alan Dershowitz, (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by fishcamp on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 09:15:02 PM EST
    he was just on CNN, and looked really old, so I looked him up and he's three months and one day younger than me...Yikes.  

    Dershowitz doesn't (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by MKS on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 08:57:08 AM EST
    go to the gym.

    Elliott Abrams (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by MKS on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 10:35:53 AM EST
    Elliott Abrams is apparently going to picked as Deputy Secretary of State.

    Abrams was a Reagan era Department of State official who was apologist for Rios-Montt, who has been convicted of genocide.

    Trump is picking people involved in the genocide in Guatemala.  I could smell it with Trump.  Now, proof.

    This is gawdawful.

    Someone who (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 03:02:05 PM EST
    supports genocide of Hispanics is actually perfect for the Trump Administration.

    Trolling the left also, IMO (none / 0) (#51)
    by vicndabx on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 11:00:08 AM EST
    Goldman Sachs, now this guy.

    Abrams is like the bad penny (none / 0) (#52)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 11:15:14 AM EST
    that keeps coming back.

    I'm starting to wonder if he has blackmail material on people. Probably hidden under his heat rock in the DC zoo reptile house.

    He was an active player in the whole Iran-Contra rogue's gallery, as well.

    Indicted for giving "false testimony", i.e., lying, to investigators, before being pardoned by George I.


    Yes, Elliott Abrams (none / 0) (#53)
    by KeysDan on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 11:19:11 AM EST
    was up to his ears in the Iran Contra scandal; Lawrence Walsh, Independent Counsel, prepared multi-felony counts but did not indict when Abrams cooperated with Walsh entering into a guilty plea agreement of two misdemeanors--withholding information from Congress.

     Abrams was sentenced to a fine, community service and two-years probation.  However, on his way out the door, in Dec 1992, President George HW Bush pardoned Abrams.  In 1997, the DC Court of Appeals publicly censured Abrams for giving false testimony on three occasions before Congressional committees.


    The Nation says this (none / 0) (#60)
    by MKS on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 02:26:56 PM EST
    about Abrams:

    As assistant secretary of state for human rights, Abrams sought to ensure that General Efraín Ríos Montt, Guatemala's then-dictator, could carry out "acts of genocide"--those are the legally binding words of Guatemala's United Nations-backed Commission for Historical Clarification--against the indigenous people in the Ixil region of the department of Quiché, without any pesky interference from human-rights organizations, much less the US government.

    As the mass killings were taking place, Abrams fought in Congress for military aid to Ríos Montt's bloody regime. He credited the murderous dictator with having "brought considerable progress" on human-rights issues. Abrams even went so far as to insist that "the amount of killing of innocent civilians is being reduced step by step" before demanding that Congress provide the regime with advanced arms because its alleged "progress need[ed] to be rewarded and encouraged."

    Promoted to assistant secretary of state for inter-American affairs, Abrams repeatedly denounced the continued protests by organizations seeking to call attention to the mass murders of both Ríos Montt and the no less bloodthirsty President Vinicio Cerezo Arévalo, who came to power fewer than three years later. In one village during the latter's reign, "the army herded the entire population into the courthouse, raped the women, beheaded the men, and took the children outside to smash them to death against rocks," according to Inevitable Revolutions, Walter LaFeber's classic history of the United States in Central America. At the time, a leader of the Guatemalan Mutual Support Group (an organization of mothers of the disappeared), her brother, and her 3-year-old son were found dead in their wrecked car. Abrams not only supported the nonsensical official explanation (there was "no evidence indicating other than that the deaths were due to an accident"), he also denounced a spokeswoman for the group who demanded an investigation, insisting that she had "no right to call herself a human rights worker." When The New York Times published an op-ed challenging the official State Department count of the mass murders under way--by a woman who had witnessed a death-squad-style assassination in broad daylight in Guatemala City without ever seeing it mentioned in the press--Abrams lied outright in a letter to the editor, even citing an imaginary story in a nonexistent newspaper to insist that the man's murder had, in fact, been reported.

    Abrams doesn't belong in Washington (5.00 / 5) (#61)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 02:41:12 PM EST
    he belongs in the dock at the International Criminal Court.

    Here is the Wikipedia link (none / 0) (#72)
    by Peter G on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 04:56:58 PM EST
    for KeysDan's discussion of Abrams. Pleaded guilty to misdemeanor charges, after being threatened with felony indictment, in exchange for "cooperating" with the Special Prosecutor, then received a purely political (otherwise undeserved) pardon. Censured by the Federal Court of Appeals for lying to Congress, over the Bar's recommendation that this law license be suspended. As a defense lawyer, I supposed I should say I am impressed how he has gotten a second chance 20 years later, after rehabilitating himself (one hopes). Those who support Abrams now must also be cheering President Obama's many acts of clemency extended to non-violent drug offenders who received excessive sentences.

    Peter, (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by MKS on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 07:35:25 PM EST
    I could look the other way on the violations you list that happened 20 years ago.

    The participation in and cheerleading of the genocide in Guatemala: no, not ever.


    Not that you suggested such (none / 0) (#78)
    by MKS on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 07:40:50 PM EST
    To see the Goebbles of Central America about to assume real power (the other Deputy position at State will not be filled, and Tillerson don't know squat) is bone chilling terrifying.

       Torture will be back toot sweeet.


    tout de suite (4.00 / 1) (#79)
    by linea on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 07:43:55 PM EST
    Wala! (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by MKS on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 08:25:26 PM EST
    The American versions have a swarthy earthiness.

    Apropos (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by FlJoe on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 08:40:37 PM EST
    of nothing
    Psycho killer
    Qu'est-ce que c'est

    It shouldn't be forgotten (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 09:07:09 PM EST
    that in the early eighties, Abrams, Jeanne Kirkpatrick, and other Reagan racketeers worked overtime to smear the victims and hide from the public information about the murder of the Maryknoll sisters and the massacre of 900 men, women, and children in the village of El Mozote by the junta in El Salvador.

    so (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by FlJoe on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 09:22:06 PM EST
    "There are a lot of killers. We have a lot of killers," Trump said. "Well, you think our country is so innocent?"
    and then he proceeded to hire on only the best killers.

    I can't figure out (none / 0) (#85)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 09:36:50 PM EST
    is he trying to channel Putin or Michael Corleone?

    This could be the truest public statement (none / 0) (#91)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 12:53:09 PM EST
    yet made by Tr*mp. I cannot even fathom what he intended to convey by it, from his own POV. But I have no doubt that it is true.

    I couldn't help flashing on (none / 0) (#95)
    by jondee on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 02:27:15 PM EST
    the scene in The Godfather when Al Pacino says to Diane Keaton "who's being naive now, Kay?"

    Patton Oswalt (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 06:06:02 PM EST
    "..And then the shit storm REALLY started.
    Pro-Trump accounts BOMBING my feed with
    "wife murderer Patton Oswalt" tweets and
    "libtard cuck" tweets and death threats
    and every variety of misspelled rage.

    Cuz here's the second thing I learned.

    The main thing that Trump supporters are
    excited about, now that he's president? is that finally, at LOOOOONG LAST all of the awful things they want to say, that used to lose them friends and jobs and marriages? They're EXCITED about potentially getting say with ZERO repercussions. Just like Trump did All the way into the Whitehouse. All the way into unlimited, forever power to spew any awful sh*t that comes into your head and no one dares correct you, rolls their eyes, or punches you in the nose..

    But I'm afraid Peoria Realtor is going to be the first in a long line of Trumpers who will realize, on the other side of firings and divorces and black eyes, that Trump's Teflon Umbrella covers Trump and no one else.

    His cabinet and staff are going to learn that as well.

    That might be fun".

    Pucker up (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by FlJoe on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 08:47:01 PM EST
    Pucker up for Putin
    In an interview with Fox News's Bill O'Reilly, which will air ahead of the Super Bowl on Sunday, Trump doubled down on his "respect" for Putin -- even in the face of accusations that Putin and his associates have murdered journalists and dissidents in Russia.

    "I do respect him. Well, I respect a lot of people, but that doesn't mean I'll get along with them," Trump told O'Reilly.

    O'Reilly pressed on, declaring to the president that "Putin is a killer."

    Unfazed, Trump didn't back away, but rather compared Putin's reputation for extrajudicial killings with the United States'.

    "There are a lot of killers. We have a lot of killers," Trump said. "Well, you think our country is so innocent?"

    Trump added that he thinks the United States is "better" getting along with Russia than not.

    See my comment above (none / 0) (#92)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 12:55:10 PM EST
    at #91.

    Melissa McCarthy was brilliant... (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by desertswine on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 01:14:42 PM EST
    last nite on SNL as Sean Spicer.  Funniest thing I've seen in a very long time.  Instant Emmy award.

    She was (none / 0) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 01:52:56 PM EST
    and Steve Bannon as the grim reaper was so close to true it almost wasn't funny. The funniest part of the skit with Baldwin as Trump was when he called the African dictator.

    Rosie O'Donnell as Bannon (none / 0) (#104)
    by Towanda on Mon Feb 06, 2017 at 11:02:42 PM EST
    is trending like mad on Twitter.  And she has agreed.

    With his hatred of O'Donnell, Trump's head would explode.  Pleeeeeze, SNL, call to cast her now!


    I'm with you, Towanda (none / 0) (#106)
    by jondee on Thu Feb 09, 2017 at 08:59:57 PM EST
    Please please please please please.

    It's too perfect.


    The Holocaust message (none / 0) (#1)
    by MKS on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 12:35:19 PM EST
    by Trump that eliminated any reference to the Jewish people was no accident.

    Prior announcements and the State Department announcement that referenced the Jewish people were reviewed by Trump people.

    The Holocaust was not about the Jews, is apparently the new policy of Trump.

    Among the more surreal events this last week.  These Trump people are.....well....you fill in the blank.  

    The Trump administration (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by jondee on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 02:04:53 PM EST
    doesn't want to ruffle any feathers. They know what side their bread is buttered on.

    Russia's always had an ambivalent relationship at best with the Jews.


    Orwellian (none / 0) (#3)
    by MKS on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 02:45:48 PM EST
    1984 is here.  

    Trump will mess up royally.  But he will count on lying about the facts to rally his base.


    Just wait till he tweets (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by jondee on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 03:12:50 PM EST
    about Merkel being a great head of state for a "3".

    I think we're past Orwell and into Salvador Dali territory.


    Remember the Bowling Green Massacre! (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 07:28:48 PM EST
    "Citizens of every nationality wept as the truth died that day. Nearby, also slaughtered, lay responsibility, class, journalism, and shame." LINK.

    i googled this (none / 0) (#19)
    by linea on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 07:45:27 PM EST
    (as an aside, i hate when people post obscure references to wonky memes without a link.)

    it's supposed to be "bowlng green terrorists" not massacre.

    2011 arrest of two Iraqi nationals for terrorism in Bowling Green, Kentucky... charged with federal terrorism had attempted to send both money and weapons to al-Qaeda in Iraq. Before entering the U.S., both had used improvised explosive devices (IEDs) in Iraq...

    ... charges included "conspiracy to kill U.S. nationals abroad, conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction against U.S. national abroad, distributing information on the manufacture and use of IEDs, attempting to provide material support to terrorists"  and "conspiracy to transfer, possess and export Stinger missiles."

    Kellyanne Conway said "massacre." (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 08:23:37 PM EST
    "I bet it's brand new information to people that President Obama had a six-month ban on the Iraqi refugee program after two Iraqis came here to this country, were radicalized and they were the masterminds behind the Bowling Green massacre." (Emphasis is mine.)
    - Kellyanne Conway, White House Senior Advisor, "Hardball with Chris Matthews," MSNBC (February 2, 2017)

    Here's what actually happened. In May 2011, Waad Ramadan Alwan and Mohanad Shareef Hammadi, who had both been admitted into the United States as refugees from Iraq and resided in Bowling Green, KY, were arrested as part of an FBI undercover sting operation, and indicted on a series of terrorism and weapons charges related to an attempt on their part to assist al Qaeda in Iraq carry out attacks on U.S. troops in that country.

    Both Alwan and Hammadi later pleaded guilty in federal court on all counts, and were thus convicted of facilitating al Qaeda's activities in their former country, and conspiring to ship weapons and money from the United States to that terrorist organization. But as a point of fact, per the U.S. Dept. of Justice, at no time did either man ever have operable weaponry in their possession or under their control, nor did they plot to carry out any attacks inside the United States itself.

    Alwan and Hammadi were less "masterminds," than they were fools. And as a consequence of their arrests, per CNN:

    "[T]he Department of Homeland Security re-vetted 58,000 refugees already in the country, imposed vetting on 25,000 other Iraqi citizens still in Iraq and significantly tightened the processing of Iraqi visa/refugee applications for six months. The move was different from Trump's travel ban, which has ensnared people who already have green cards and valid visas."



    i dont understand (none / 0) (#21)
    by linea on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 08:35:37 PM EST
    you paint a portrait of inept or innocent fools? they werent teenage boys posting on 4-chan. these were the charges they plead guilty to:
    • conspiracy to kill U.S. nationals abroad

    • conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction against U.S. nationals abroad

    • distributing information on the manufacture and use of IEDs

    • attempting to provide material support to terrorists

    • conspiracy to transfer, possess and export Stinger missiles

    No, you don't understand (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Towanda on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 09:32:06 PM EST
    because it requires listening/reading closely.

    1.  What word, exactly, did Conway use to describe what occurred in Bowling Green?

    2.  Did that actually happen in Bowling Green?

    3.  If not, do you understand that Conway is a liar?

    Honestly (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Yman on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 10:17:51 PM EST
    Sometimes, it makes my head hurt.

    Yes (none / 0) (#32)
    by Towanda on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 12:53:21 AM EST
    and I don't know why I bother.  I have taught this type.  It generally takes two or three retakes of a course, with one-on-one tutoring, too.

    I've noticed lots of impatience and ... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 02:12:50 AM EST
    ... short attention spans, particularly amongst millennials and Gen-Xers. I can't tell you how many times I've had to repeat myself during business meetings not just once, but two or three times, usually because the person asking me to repeat what I just said was checking emails on the SmartPhone or texting.

    Just my theory, but I believe that rapid advances in technology have subjected people to too many outside distractions. They like to think they're multi-tasking, but they're really not. Rather, their attention is being pulled in so many directions simultaneously, that there's no real focus on the primary task at hand. As a result, they're doing everything mediocre.

    And they don't read. At best, they skim. How I'd love to channel Faye Dunaway in Network: "And by the way, the next time I send a research report around, you'd all better read it, or I'll sack the fckng lot of you. Is that clear?"



    Sounds like (none / 0) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 05:48:51 AM EST
    my millennial. You literally have to sit him down and make him read something. I told him a number of times to leave his phone in the car when he's at work because there is nothing that cannot wait until he is at lunch or at home.

    And the operative phrase here is ... (none / 0) (#70)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 04:10:46 PM EST
    ... "there is nothing that cannot wait[.]" Exactly. Unless we're physicians, there is nothing so important that we need to ignore everyone / everything around us and respond to that email or text immediately. It's both rude and disrespectful -- and when driving a car, it can further be fatal. Good for you for hammering that point home with your son. Eventually, he'll finally get it, as did my daughters.

    linea, she misspoke (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 10:11:53 AM EST
    She was probably confusing Bowling Green with Orlando or Boston or Chattanooga or San Bernardino or Little Rock...

    Of course as a hated political opponent and the first woman to manage a winning presidential campaign she should get no mercy.


    She was the one (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by MKS on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 10:24:46 AM EST
    who first used the term "alternative facts."  She practices what she preaches.

    No, that makes no sense (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by mm on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 10:30:21 AM EST
    She is lying about her lie that she used to promulgate another lie.  It's lies all the way down.

    There have been (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 10:32:36 AM EST
    many women managing campaigns and we even had a woman candidate for president this past year.

    Kellyanne is vile and she has been a propagandist for the GOP for decades spreading alternative facts and false information. Leni Riefenstahl would be jealous.


    No, Conway meant Bowling Green (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by ding7777 on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 11:29:36 AM EST
    how else could she try to equalize Republican Trump's ban with a non-existent Obama ban?

    Kellyanne Conway didn't "misspeak." Jim. (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 01:06:22 PM EST
    She only backed off the word "massacre" when called out -- and even then, she still deliberately misstated the facts. She's a malevolent bullschitt artist who seeks to spin and mislead public opinion, rather than set the actual record straight.

    Conway's entire modus operandi is completely antithetical to the cause and mission of responsible journalism. The sooner that network news shows stop chasing click bait and cease booking her for appearances, the better for everyone -- Trump included. Her burgeoning and dubious reputation for serial bullschitt as a member of his senior staff only makes matters worse for him.



    Just the facts... (none / 0) (#58)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 02:15:27 PM EST
    At one point, Conway made a reference to two Iraqi refugees whom she described as the masterminds behind "the Bowling Green massacre."


    The Fact Checker sent her a query about her remarks, she tweeted that she meant to say "Bowling Green terrorists."


    I wonder what Obama meant to say when he claimed to have visited 57 states? Is there any record of anyone asking or of his answer?

    Ain't gotcha politics fun??


    So, you actually think (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Towanda on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 03:07:04 PM EST
    -- because you do understand sentence structure -- that she meant that they were not terrorists but were the masterminds behind the terrorists.

    Okay, then:  Who were the terrorists?


    crap. (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by mm on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 03:13:07 PM EST
    that makes no sense at all.

    Here is what she said, verbatim:

    I bet it's brand new information to people that President Obama had a six-month ban on the Iraqi refugee program after two Iraqis came here to this country, were radicalized, and they were the masterminds behind the Bowling Green massacre. Most people don't know that because it didn't get covered.

    Is the lie now that she meant to say,


    two Iraqis came here to this country, were radicalized, and they were the masterminds behind the two Iraqi terrorists. Most people don't know that because it didn't get covered.

    So the two Iraqis were the masterminds behind the two Iraqis.  Got it.

    And furthermore,

    1. these were not refugees
    2. President Obama did not have a six-month ban
    3. the media covered it extensively at the time

    Other than that, "sugar lips" Conway was perfectly truthful.

    Don't try to change the subject, Jim. (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 03:33:48 PM EST
    The issue under discussion here is serial bullscheisser Kellyanne Conway, not Barack Obama.

    There's a world of difference between the words "massacre" and "terrorists." Conway knew exactly what she was doing on Chris Matthews' show Thursday evening. She deliberately intended to mislead the low-information members of the general public, just as she did when she sought to re-characterize Press Secretary Sean Spicer's bullschitt about the size of Trump's inaugural crowd as "alternative facts."

    Conway's done this so often that she's no longer receiving any benefit of doubt, hence the widespread well-justified public ridicule over her "Bowling Green massacre" comment. She's become her own best parody. Yesterday, the Trump White House offered her to CNN for its Sunday morning "State of the Union" talk show, and the network turned it down flat.

    Good for CNN.


    The point is that she claims to have meant they (2.00 / 1) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 03:48:54 PM EST
    were terrorists.

    Sentence structure is meaningless.

    You either accept her answer or you don't.

    But no one ever asked Obama about his visiting 57 states.

    Anyway, any further discussion on this subject his useless. You hate all things Trump...and that's okay.

    But the Left is making the Right look reasonable.

    Now that is something!


    No one ever asked Obama.. (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 04:02:18 PM EST

    You microencephalic dittoheads obsessed for months over such minutiae as whether Obama didn't intentionally NOT hold his hand over his heart during the pledge of allegiance.

    The un-American activities detector was turned on ten every bloody second he was in the Whitehouse.

    Your own blog being exhibit A of every paranoid, loony tunes, far-right conspiracy theory that ever spread a noxious odor through the blogosphere.


    She lied, Jim. (5.00 / 4) (#71)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 04:15:26 PM EST
    This is not a debatable point. It's what she does. Deal with it.

    i don't accept her answer (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Yman on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 12:13:07 PM EST
    Because she offers outright lies and then claims they are just "alternative facts".  She has no credibility.

    We shouldn't accept her answer. (none / 0) (#96)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 03:23:14 PM EST
    And we should similarly dismiss the "she misspoke / it was an honest mistake" crowd as well. Most of those who are making that argument are being disingenuous at best. For the others, well, I'd offer that such willful naiveté is best left to the realm of minor children and ingénues. In the actual art of governance, it's both consequential and dangerous.

    Were this a baseball game and Conway was manager of one of the teams, the umpires would've tossed her by the second inning and sent her sorry a$$ to the showers.



    She (none / 0) (#46)
    by FlJoe on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 10:32:01 AM EST
    was speaking about a very specific event that she was using to back a very specific talking point. If she is that confused that she mangles the facts, maybe it's time for her to retire.

    Here's a thought (none / 0) (#55)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 12:23:12 PM EST
    Of course as a hated political opponent and the first woman to manage a winning presidential campaign she should get no mercy.

    What if we hated her for being a liar and a traitor who managed her "winning campaign" (3,000,000 fewer votes) with the help of a corrupt FBI and Russia?

    That would make you happier about our reasons, and we could still hate her just as much as we already did for all the "wrong" reasons.

    What a country!


    Nope (none / 0) (#87)
    by Yman on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 12:11:34 PM EST
    She was probably confusing Bowling Green with Orlando or Boston or Chattanooga or San Bernardino or Little Rock...

    Nope - not even the excuse she offered.  But keep trying to Trump'splain ...

    Of course as a hated political opponent and the first woman to manage a winning presidential campaign she should get no mercy.

    Actually, the problem is her "alternative facts".  But she should get the same amount of "mercy" the wingers and Trump gave to Obama and HC when they pushed their lies and conspiracy theories.


    The So Called Massacre. (none / 0) (#86)
    by KeysDan on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 08:47:16 AM EST
    by A. DePlorable

    We are all Bowling Greenies,
    Don our patriotic Trumpian beanies,
    We will always remember,
    that day in Septmeber,
    when no one was killed,
    as Kellyanne billed.


    Judge won't extend order halting Trump immigration (none / 0) (#7)
    by ragebot on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 05:03:59 PM EST
    "A federal judge in Seattle on Friday issued what he described as a nationwide ruling that temporarily blocked President Trump's ban on travelers from seven Muslim-majority countries, as immigrants scrambled to enter the United States and lawyers fought over the executive order in Boston federal court and others. US District Judge James Robart in Seattle ruled that the states of Minnesota and Washington had standing to challenge Trump's order and said the states showed their case was likely to succeed."

    Sounds like the Boston ruling has been superceded.


    Those cartel people (none / 0) (#14)
    by fishcamp on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 06:27:45 PM EST
    that will be free to roam the streets of Miami will be the only roamers.  The city is not safe.  Maybe South Beach is ok, but I wouldn't even go there.  South Miami is ok, but the rest of it...no bueno.

    The Drama (none / 0) (#15)
    by FlJoe on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 07:21:44 PM EST
    And so it goes: (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 07:45:22 PM EST
    Honolulu Star-Advertiser | February 3, 2017
    Hawaii sues Trump administration over immigration ban - "The state of Hawaii is suing President Trump over his executive order temporarily banning immigration from seven majority-Muslim countries and suspending the admission of all refugees to the United States, Hawaii Attorney General Doug Chin announced today during a news conference. 'We did so for one simple reason: everyone in the United States, including the president, must follow the law and follow the Constitution,' said Chin. 'The executive order that President Trump issued last Friday keeps Hawaii families apart, it blocks Hawaii residents from traveling, it harms Hawaii's tourism industry, it establishes a religion in Hawaii in violation of the Constitution, it blocks Hawaii businesses and universities from hiring as they see fit. Most importantly, it degrades the values that Hawaii has worked so hard to protect.'"

    We're the third state to file suit, after Washington and Minnesota. And in Los Angeles on Tuesday night, U.S. District Judge Andre Birotte Jr. became the fifth federal magistrate to act, placing a temporary hold on the executive order Trump signed late last week, and making it applicable nationwide.



    Here's the nationwide TRO (none / 0) (#24)
    by Michael Masinter on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 09:08:56 PM EST
    And as I suspected, the legal precedent (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Peter G on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 09:21:09 PM EST
    cited by the Washington federal judge for a nationwide injunction against the *President's immigration policy, entered at the behest of two States, is "Texas v. United States (2015)" - the nationwide injunction that Texas won in their favorite jurisdiction, the Eastern District of Texas (as affirmed on appeal by the generally reactionary Fifth Circuit) against President Obama's attempt to set priorities for deportation.

    can you (none / 0) (#27)
    by linea on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 09:27:19 PM EST
    explain what this means or what this implies, please?
    i dont quiet understand.

    "nationwide" (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by MKS on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 09:00:00 AM EST
    means the whole nation.

    Identify what part of what I wrote (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by Peter G on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 10:52:54 AM EST
    you don't understand and I will try to explain. Ask a specific question or refer to a specific vocabulary term that you have tried to look up but still don't understand. I already tried to be clear:  There is precedent for a single, lower-level federal judge putting a stop to a nationwide presidential policy change regarding immigration. Ironically, that precedent was set by wingers opposing President Obama's policies. How's that?

    thank you {{ }} (none / 0) (#69)
    by linea on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 04:06:38 PM EST
    how i think i understand what you wrote (after researching texas v u.s.):

    the WA judge who placed a temporary injunction on trump's presidential order restricting immigration from 7-countries cited DAPA...

    ... a 2015 court decision where obama attempted to set priorities for deportation - to defer indefinately any deportation of illegal migrants who are parents of children born in the u.s. or of green card holders - which obama lost in a lower court.

    on appeal to scotus:

    Supreme Court announced it had deadlocked 4-4 in a decision that read, in its entirety, "The judgement is affirmed by an equally divided court." The ruling set no precedent and simply leaves in place the lower court's preliminary injunction blocking the program.

    i dont understand the IMPLICATIONS of citing that case. was it a poor choice for the WA judge? i dont see that the cases are similar emough to draw any conclusion.


    No, it's a good choice of precedent to cite (5.00 / 4) (#73)
    by Peter G on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 05:26:54 PM EST
    It supports the notion that a State has standing to sue the federal government to stop an immigration policy change that has a detrimental impact on the state's citizens and on its economy, and which the State contends is unconstitutional or otherwise unlawful. And it supports the notion that a single district judge, acting on the complaint of one or two State governments, can issue a nationwide order even though no representative of the other states is before the judge. Both of those legal issues are debatable (as shown by the 4-4 split at the Supreme Court), and before Texas v US, I don't think any such precedent at all existed. The irony is, of course, that the politics of it are now on the other foot, so to speak.

    A Bush appointed judge (none / 0) (#22)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 08:46:16 PM EST
    So, you've joined the resistance have you? (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 08:58:39 PM EST
    This is crucial, a blow to the WH (none / 0) (#29)
    by Towanda on Fri Feb 03, 2017 at 09:39:10 PM EST
    because, leakers tell us, President Bannon counted on an Obama-appointed judge to so act, as the plan was for President Bannon to then tell his large orange loutish puppet to denounce and discredit the decision on that basis.

    And now, while his puppet is vacationing in Florida, President Bannon has had his responses edited, in minutes, by wiser heads. The initial WH reaction called the decision "outrageous," and that word already has been edited out of a revised handout.  We await the next revision momentarily.


    Unable to resist his own ignorant instincts (none / 0) (#50)
    by Peter G on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 10:58:24 AM EST
    the "President*" has referred to the GWB-appointed Seattle federal district judge as "a so-called judge."  No wonder his sister, the excellent jurist Maryanne Trump Barry, age 79, announced Thursday that she is assuming "inactive" status on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit, to which she had a lifetime appointment.

    It never fails to fascinate me ... (none / 0) (#57)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 01:31:05 PM EST
    ... how siblings can sometimes become polar opposites in demeanor, temperament and intellect.

    On another subject.. (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 02:19:57 PM EST
    Donald, did you happen to catch wind of the little firestorm that erupted after the gang of Trumpanzees were taunting Patton Oswalt on Twitter about his recently-deceased wife?

    No, I didn't. (none / 0) (#99)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 04:03:02 PM EST
    I do know that online anonymity can bring out the absolute worst in some people, and that Mr. Oswalt had been subjected to some rather horrific personal treatment after his wife's sudden death, not unlike what some bereaved parents of Sandy Hook victims have been experiencing at the hands of Alex Jones and his merry band of "truthers."

    Can't say that Patton Oswalt is a favorite comedian of mine, but that's neither here nor there. Nobody deserves to be tormented like that on the occasion of their loved one's passing, and I'm happy to see that decent people are finally pushing back against such unbridled and conspicuous malevolence.

    As for myself, I sincerely wish Mr. Oswalt nothing but peace and love, as I'm sure others do as well.



    ... against Hawaii State House Minority Leader Beth Fukumoto (R-Mililani), stripping her of her post for having taken an active role in the Jan. 21 Women's March at the State Capitol, in conjunction with the various Women's March activities being held nationwide that same day.

    Joining her in the GOP docket was 83-year-old GOP State Rep. Cynthia Thielen (R-Kailua), who is now being targeted herself with a motion for censure by the RNC for her own role in addressing the massive Women's March crowd from the podium and denouncing President* Trump's crude behavior toward women.

    This past Wednesday, possibly in anticipation of today's action, Rep. Fukumoto sent the following message to her central Oahu constituents:

    "In the last couple years, I've watched leaders in the Republican Party become less and less tolerant of diverse opinions and dissenting voices. I am under constant scrutiny for working across the aisle to pass common sense legislation that will benefit my district and the people of Hawaii.

    "Today, I'm being confronted with demands for my resignation from leadership and threats of possible censure, because I raised concerns about our President's treatment of women and minorities. I've been asked by both my party and my caucus to commit to not criticizing the President for the remainder of his term and to take a more partisan approach to working in the Legislature.

    "That is not a commitment I can make. As a representative of my community, it is my job to hold leaders accountable and to work with anyone, regardless of party, to make Hawaii a better place for our families."

    Now that the hammer has fallen, Rep. Fukumoto isn't backing down. Instead, she's sent a letter to her constituents this evening that fired a shot directly across the GOP's bow:

    "It is my belief that I can no longer remain a member of a party that punishes dissent. Furthermore, I believe that it is my job as your representative to work with everyone, regardless of party, to accomplish things for Mililani. I have always said that we should work to find common ground, even when we disagree, but powerful voices in the Republican Party continue to fight against compromise."

    I apologize not providing a link, but these documents are PDF files which I have on my hard drive and are not online. Further, these events took place at the Capitol only three hours ago.

    On the State House floor this afternoon, Rep. Thielen defended her fellow Republican against the GOP's assault, vigorously asserting that Fukumoto was being punished in large part because she -- like Thielen -- had spoken publicly at the Women's March. She pointedly accused President* Trump and the GOP of wanting to crush internal party dissent, noting that both she and Fukumoto are but two of the very few Republican elected officials nationwide who's been willing to speak out bluntly against the racism, sexism and intolerance that's come to dominate their own party.

    "I think it's a total disgrace, and it further sends an alarming message to people not only in Hawaii but all across America, that unless you share our national party leadership's narrow-minded sexism and bigotry, don't you even think about joining the GOP," Rep. Thielen concluded, before receiving a standing ovation from both her colleagues across the aisle and a substantial audience in the gallery above, who had heard the news about Rep. Fukumoto and showed up in anticipation of seeing fireworks erupt in the House chambers today. They were not disappointed.

    It would not surprise me if during next couple of days, Reps. Fukumoto and Thielen were to resign their memberships in the GOP and formally switch their affiliations to the Democratic Party. It's come to that point. To that effect, we've reached out to both lawmakers tonight accordingly, to offer to facilitate that transition should either one or both of them decide to act.

    This is what resistance looks like.

    Part I: In which an angry crowd of protestors follows Congressman Tom McClintock (R-Roseville, CA) out of a town hall meeting in suburban Sacramento, and chants "Shame! Shame!" as he dashes to his SUV under police escort and is hastily driven off by aides.

    Part II: In which a large crowd of protestors gathers at a GOP meeting in suburban Chicago to voice their displeasure with local GOP Congressman Peter Roskam (R-Hinsdale, IL).

    Part III: In which a much larger crowd gathers at the Utah State Capitol in Salt Lake City to voice their support of refugees.

    Part IV: In which a crowd gathers at a "Never Remember" rally in Bowling Green, KY to mockingly commemorate the massacre that never happened.

    Part V: In which thousands of protestors gather in downtown Philadelphia to protest Trump's immigration ban.

    If anybody has any other public actions to add, please do.


    Wife and I joined daughter and several (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 12:48:33 PM EST
    of her girlfriends at the Philadelphia rally and march yesterday. Very diverse and entirely peaceful crowd in the range of 3000-5000. Organized by the American Friends Service Committee, based in Philly, and co-winner of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1947. Many in the crowd had posters with pictures of their immigrant parents or grandparents.

    Way cool, and Mahalo. (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 03:42:31 PM EST
    People generally don't see and comprehend just how personally empowering and invigorating such public participation can be, until they actually join an event themselves and realize that lots of others feel likewise. Those here who haven't yet done so but are thinking about it, just do it!

    This is what resistance looks like. It can be seen in the faces of our spouses, parents and grandparents, children and grandchildren, siblings, uncles and aunts, cousins, nieces and nephews, and neighbors, friends, co-workers and our own selves.

    We must neither be silent nor be silenced. And by acting together in concert and common purpose, we won't be.



    To be clear, the daughter and her friends (none / 0) (#98)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 03:49:45 PM EST
    are twenty-somethings, "millenials," most of whom consider themselves "gender-queer." They voted, and they care deeply about the world around them and their role in that world.

    Then there's hope for millenials yet. (none / 0) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Feb 05, 2017 at 04:19:32 PM EST
    It does my heart proud to see young people getting involved in public affairs. As I told young and disappointed Bernie Sanders supporters in my district after the primaries were over and their candidate had fallen short, political campaigns may end, but the causes underlying them tend to endure.

    I've gone out of my way as a state Democratic Party official to mentor them and keep as many of them actively engaged as possible. About 25% of our state party's central committee are now under 30 years of age, and they've infused the entire organization with a renewed energy and sense of resolve.



    Secretary of the Army (none / 0) (#35)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 05:19:31 AM EST
    Vincent Viola, the billionaire owner of the Florida Panthers and President Trump's nominee for secretary of the Army, withdrew his nomination Friday night citing difficulties in divesting himself from his businesses.

    A Pentagon spokesman, Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, said Defense Secretary James Mattis is "disappointed but understands and respects Mr. Viola's decision" and believes Viola "will remain a stalwart supporter of America's soldiers." Mattis, Davis added, "will recommend to the President another candidate soon."

    Not sure if Mattis is displeased with this. I remember reading that he wasn't happy  that he wasn't consulted on this choice

    You (none / 0) (#37)
    by FlJoe on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 06:35:53 AM EST
    are probably right about the "disappointed" part, but like a normal person he is able to speak and think in a diplomatic way(unlike his boss).


    Mattis, Davis added, "will recommend to the President another candidate soon."
    seems to signal that Mattis still considers it his choice to make.

    IMO, Mattis is the best pick Trump made, it appears for now that he will not allow Trump to FU the Pentagon too badly. However the botched(YMMV) Yemen raid gives me pause.


    I wonder (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 10:30:00 AM EST
    how much input Mattis had on that botched Yemen raid. There are some reports that Trump and Bannon did that pretty much all by themselves because they wanted to have a repeat of Obama's success with the OBL raid.

    I (none / 0) (#62)
    by FlJoe on Sat Feb 04, 2017 at 02:49:15 PM EST
    do find that a little worrisome, I find the whole presentation(and decided) at dinner thing to be weird.

    I do think that the Trump team wanted an early military victory and probably pushed the pentagon to come up with something quickly but it's hard to tell who exactly is to blame.


    My imagining of the decision making process: (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Feb 06, 2017 at 03:57:22 AM EST
    1> The Great Man leans back into Jack Kennedy's old oval office chair.  A joker smirk slits his face.  His handmade shoes are propped on the edge of a desk around which thoughtful men have decided wars.  

    The desk is spattered with paint.  Steve Bannon has been using it to spray paint the oval office chairs.  Gold.  The Great Man likes gold.  Bannon likes fake.  They work well together.  It's a marriage made in hell.

    2> The Generals make their pitch. They bring models.  The Great Man likes models.  He has been shown developer models his entire life, architectural models showing projects, construction, and building integrated into cityscapes.  The Great Man is the Great Developer.  

    But the Generals bring a very different sort of model.  They show simulations of un-building, of disintegration, of deconstruction and destruction.  They show him first-person shooters, terse and sweaty animations, triggers pulled, implosions and explosions.  They show him simulations of the surgical precision that surgeons know to be the falsest trope of all, no collaterals, no dead babies, no broken hearts.

    3>The Great Man grins and claps his hands.  The Great Man decides.  He's the decider. He stands.  He manhandles his crotch.  He looks around to make sure everyone noticed.

    4> The Great Man issues his orders:  "Who's got the man hands now, baby?  I'll show you some grabbin'.  The Donald's gonna grab some al qaeda a$$."