Monday Open Thread

It's a court day for me, which means an open thread for you.

All topics welcome.

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    The use of outrage, (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 27, 2017 at 04:42:38 PM EST
    by Professor Paul Krugman, NYTmes, February 27: "The first weeks of the Trump Administration have been marked by huge protests, furious crowds at Town Halls, customer boycotts of businesses seen as Trump allies.  Democrats responding to the base, have taken a hard line against cooperation with the new regime. "

    " But is it all that wise?  One hears some voices urging everyone to cool it...to wait and see, to try to be constructive, to reach out to Trump supporters, to seek ground for compromise. Just say no.  Outrage at what is happening in America isn't just justified, it is essential.  In fact, it may be our last chance of saving democracy."

    Outrage is outrage though (none / 0) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 07:35:13 PM EST
    It's like trying to tell one of the veterans from Afghanistan to relax about the not fighting to win thing. Relax when he said this morning that the SEAL killed in Yemen isn't his fault in any way. Just don't, he said it was President Obama's fault before it was his fault.... try telling those people to relax though, their outrage is real and it's right now. I have never seen people so phricken angry, well except last week and the week before. But those were different people. He outrages someone different every four days or so.

    I had missed this last Friday, but (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 27, 2017 at 05:29:00 PM EST
    the Dept of Justice asked the Ninth Circuit court of appeals to put the proceedings concerning their appeal of the Seattle district court order enjoining enforcement of the travel ban on hold until the White House (supposedly imminently) revises or clarifies the policy. The State of Washington etc. opposed any stay on the ground that what the Dept of Justice says the White House is doing or is going to do has proven unreliable. Today, the court of appeals denied a stay and issued an expedited briefing schedule for the government's appeal.

    So Twittler telling us all 5 different (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 07:39:31 PM EST
    Things has legal ramifications for him?  Thank the Gods!!!!

    The Veteran and Military Family groups (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 07:01:34 PM EST
    Unite on Twitter tonight during the President's address. There's some folks out there pissed as hell about this "we don't fight to win anymore"....they served in Iraq and Afghanistan and he served no place and neither did his kids, they're super pissed! One of our hash tags #FightToWin

    That and him (none / 0) (#70)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 07:55:57 PM EST
    blaming the generals for the mess in Yemen.

    Yemen (none / 0) (#78)
    by KeysDan on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 09:00:17 PM EST
    was a dinner conversation.  The deportation raids were a military operation.

    What a mess (none / 0) (#83)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 09:50:36 PM EST
    I was doing the Twitter thing. I just saw what he did to that poor woman. I think all the men are misreading her too. That woman was incrediblely stressed. She was doing her duty too. She does not look like a stupid or naive woman. Her father-in-law wants an investigation. I am not convinced she is not going to join him. She is in shock right now, and she was doing her duty.

    Ryan is not coming home though ever again, and being held up by a President for a moment will not keep you warm at night. Men misread women a lot. I'm listening to all men on the tube think they know what that woman was thinking and feeling, she gave me not one indication that she has abdicated her right to question. She showed her President the respect of his office, but not adoration or mindless embrace.


    I did not (none / 0) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 08:45:07 AM EST
    watch but I truly felt sorry for the woman. Trump sent her husband on a botched mission.

    LOL! Not only did it originate ... (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 08:03:11 PM EST
    ... in ancient Greece, but the Athenians and the Romans were developing and refining the concept of democracy at a time when northern Europeans were marauding tribes of pagan barbarians.

    But then, when it comes to northern European cultural superiority, we're talking about people who recast Jesus Christ in their own image.


    Whoops (5.00 / 3) (#110)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 08:32:55 PM EST
    Jeff Sessions spoke to the Russians twice during Trump's presidential campaign

    And he lied about this during confirmation hearings.

    Biggest Loser trainer/host has heart attack (none / 0) (#1)
    by McBain on Mon Feb 27, 2017 at 01:44:35 PM EST
    Fitness trainer and host of NBC's "Biggest Loser" Bob Harper says he is recovering from a serious heart attack that left him unconscious for two days.

    Harper tells TMZ he was working out in a gym in New York City this month when he collapsed. He says a doctor who also was in the gym performed CPR on him.

    Apparently he has heart disease in his family.  Also, fitness doesn't equal health.  

    Anyone know the deal on... (none / 0) (#2)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Feb 27, 2017 at 04:09:11 PM EST
    ...all the hate for Planned Parenthood?

    Congressional Republicans want to de-fund it.  If there is a logical argument for opposing the use of birth control, I haven't heard it.


    It is part (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 27, 2017 at 07:27:24 PM EST
    of the white nationalist agenda. Getting rid of birth control is about forcing white women to have more children since these people don't think we are having enough children. It's also about taking away control from women over their own bodies. Taking choices away from women apparently makes conservative men very happy. Someone else will have to explain why that makes them happy.

    i think perhaps... (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by linea on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 08:33:59 PM EST
    the erroneous assertion that opposition to planned parenthood clinics is primarily a "white nationalist agenda" rather than acknowledge that it is part the fundamentalist religious beliefs of catholics and baptists; seems to me to be part of the american tendancy to consider all religion sancrosant.

    in my opinion.


    Baptists (none / 0) (#76)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 08:41:25 PM EST
    do not have a problem with birth control though generally.

    evangelicals (baptists) (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by linea on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 09:27:53 PM EST
    oppose all abortion as a religious belief and want PP defunded for that reason.

    yes, PP is already defunded by why would republican politicians ruin a completely good meme that has served them so well over the years by pointing out that fact?


    Pray tell me (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 12:26:18 PM EST
    where is this white nationalist agenda published?

    I would like to bone up on the finer points.

    And you better be careful. All those ignorant women gonna be having themselves a bunch of babies and you ain't never gonna win another election. They be just out breeding you'ns.


    Really, GA. You talk about such things and then call someone else paranoid????


    Especially when the pervert fundamentalists... (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 01:06:24 PM EST
    in Congress take full advantage of the useful idiot in the WH and restrict access to birth control and useful honest sex ed...there will certainly be more young'uns than they can afford to bloody feed in white rural America Jim!

    I hope PepsiCo is on the ball and planning for an explosion in Mountain Dew demand in the next 5-20 years.  


    Don't you'n be all nasty, kdog (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 01:12:43 PM EST
    or else I'll have my buds burn up the fields of the  State Weed and you'll be having to depend on Mexico....until President Trump shuts down the border.



    Ain't enough matches... (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 01:19:36 PM EST
    in the world to burn all that bud you're growing out there, old friend.  

    And if by some freak occurrence Jeff Sessions cracks down and cracks down with tyrannical efficiency, Canada got much better sh&t growing than Mexico.  

    Any way the munchies crumble, I am covered. Ain't no wall high enough or moat deep enough to keep the people from their favorite recreational crop;)


    Good point about Canada. (none / 0) (#32)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 03:05:17 PM EST
    Jim really is out of touch.  lol.

    The gummi bears available in California will turn you to jelly, btw.  (I'm told, for purposes of plausible deniability.)  


    The Gummies... (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 03:37:37 PM EST
    available in CA and CO are now readily available in NY.  

    Nobody moves more THC than USPS, UPS, & FedEx...and how thankful we are for their vast distribution networks, state borders be damned!

    Sh*t...all borders be damned! ;)


    Back in the day (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 05:36:48 PM EST
    use drive over to Raleigh from Johnson City. SE and then up and over through Cherokee National.

    And it was understood when you were on the edge and drove by a barely standing shack with two or more Caddies and various antennas that you didn't stop to say howdy.


    Jim, your championing here (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 01:13:32 PM EST
    of the superiority of "Northern European culture" is just white nationalism by another name.

    Of course, if Northern European culture was as great as you think it is, you'd already be smart enough to know when you're denigrating and marginalizing other cultural traditions.


    Then you didn't read (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 05:31:33 PM EST
    Nothing new.

    Nothing new that you're dissembling (none / 0) (#46)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:01:14 PM EST
    about what you already said here.

    Can't stand by your own words, eh?


    Can't make an understandable comment,. eh? (none / 0) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:34:50 PM EST
    O.k . I'll use a word you understand (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:44:56 PM EST
    You're lying about what you previously stated here.

    Richard Spencer (none / 0) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 12:47:27 PM EST
    the president of the National Policy Institute has it all written out. Again, you never seem to realize what you have spent years voting for.

    I wish it was a conspiracy theory and not something that Republicans are attempting to write into law.


    Could you be a bit more (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 01:06:37 PM EST
    explicit?? I mean you know so much about it surely you have a link???

    google is your sometime enemy, apparently (none / 0) (#27)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 01:20:01 PM EST
    Check out Richard Spencer + Hail Trump.

    That is, if you weren't there when it happened


    Here (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 01:25:37 PM EST
    ya go link

    and there are plenty of other links included there that you can read.


    Thanks GA (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 04:52:07 PM EST
    But that's a link to WIKI and nice as it is it doesn't have this.

    the president of the National Policy Institute has it all written out.

    Could it be that you were overstating a bit?


    Paranoid? (none / 0) (#119)
    by Yman on Thu Mar 02, 2017 at 08:29:53 PM EST
    What???  It's not like she's screaming "Shariah law!  It's coming!"

    In this, the cognitive dissonance is epic (none / 0) (#4)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Feb 27, 2017 at 05:04:30 PM EST
    The only non dissonant reason I've thought of is that the motives are monetary.  More mouths swilling down $5/gallon bottled water.  The need for bottled water, coke, and 'energy drinks' is enhanced because of the synergetic effect of increased water pollution due to "less gub'mnt regalashuns"  More mouths means increased demand for a lot of "stuff."

    No need to ask whether it's good for the country because it's been established that as a whole they don't think period, let alone that far ahead.

    but jobs, they say...

    The dissonance remains the same, an increasing population of the people the right loves to hate.

    Personally, my explanation is that right wingers are just plain dumber than us.  Except for the self serving at the top, those who dish the propaganda used to lull the little lemmings into feeling instead of thinking, they're all stupid little droolers.  

    I know a couple of non idiotic republicans, but they're old school.  They're stuck on Olivia Newton John in a Beth Gibbons world.

    Thanks for letting me vent.


    Where's the fun of shaming poor children (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 27, 2017 at 05:20:53 PM EST
    and cutting off their food stamps, if there's no children?

    The sadism-rush that the good folks at the Heritage Foundation get from America putting some pipsqueak country in it's place every few years, is hardly enough to sustain them.


    Is that a serious question, RR? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 27, 2017 at 05:18:24 PM EST
    Anyone who provides safe, lawful, woman-supportive abortion services is the devil and must be destroyed, not matter how much other good they do.

    My view is that Planned Parenthood (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Green26 on Mon Feb 27, 2017 at 11:20:28 PM EST
    became a political issue and hot button for certain Repubs many years ago, in large part because of its prior support for abortion.

    It's still a political issue and hot button to some extent.

    At this point, I can't imagine there is much of a cognizant argument against it, but it remains a hot button and minor issue.

    PP is obviously very good and helpful, now, in all or virtually all respects.

    The sooner some of you start understanding the opposition, the better chance there will be of heading off and getting rid of candidates like Trump.

    I am not saying any of you are elites but I don't think most of you get the basics of what really got Trump elected. Sorry, it wasn't just racists or borderline racists. It wasn't just ignorant people.


    "Some of you" (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by MKS on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 03:23:15 PM EST
    I don't think you have as good a handle on things as you think you do.

    It was not just economic anxiety that moved Trump voters. Most Trump voters talked about change-but change from what? Obama and poltical correctness. They had had enough of the thoughtful, urbane and,yes, black Obama. They wanted to be able to tell ethnic jokes without being criticized for doing so. James Webb said there was asaying in rural Virginia: "born white, out of sight."

    There was just too much diversity. Better to go back in time.

    The primary motivator was cultural insecurity.

    If it was just about economics, more tax cuts for the rich was not your ticket.

    Modern society was too different and threatening.

    But sure the Dems will focus more on economics but there is no hiding the cultural appeal that will needed to get Trump voters: white male candidates. Not a very nice picture.


    because (none / 0) (#87)
    by linea on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 09:58:24 PM EST
    the counties that voted twice for obama (discussed on npr) voted for trump this election because they wanted to be able to tell ethnic jokes without being criticized for doing so?

    That's part of it (none / 0) (#90)
    by Yman on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 10:10:20 PM EST
    Just because a county went for Obama doesn't mean there isn't a high percentage of voters in that county motivated by racism.

    You (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by FlJoe on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 03:36:51 PM EST
    just gave the "basics", a certain percentage of the population will never vote for anybody who supports PP, sensible gun control or any other of myriad of issues that Democrats have long stood for.

    Of course the racists and the rubes are unreachable, but I understand perfectly the rest of them perfectly well. The "non ignorant" would sell out their own Grandma for tax cuts on the rich, massive deregulation, destruction of the safety net and on and on.

    In case you haven't noticed, the GOP has nurtured the racist and ignorant for decades and when the monster consumed their party they played along, thinking that they could snatch their pound of flesh from the carnage.


    Well (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:03:48 AM EST
    I live in a district that went 70% for Trump and I understand fully why these people voted for him. I see and talk to a lot of Trump voters on a daily basis.

    Ignorant (none / 0) (#15)
    by FlJoe on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 07:21:26 AM EST
    or craven, take your pick.

    Here the majority (none / 0) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 11:08:26 AM EST
    is ignorant. They believe conspiracy theories and real wacko stuff. The craven ones are a minority and then there's a few let's just blow everything up and see what happens.

    They mustn't be destroyed, Peter. (none / 0) (#8)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 27, 2017 at 06:07:51 PM EST
    Because otherwise, the political right would have to conjure up another convenient bogeyman and manufactured controversy to campaign against -- like trial attorneys, and their propensity to not only get their felonious clients off on technicalities, but also talk liberal activist judges into awarding those unjustly exonerated scoundrels public pensions for life.

    (Don't laugh. I heard some right-wing numbskull actually say that last week on Mike Savage's "Savage Nation" radio show. And the host let the remark pass unchallenged, and said nothing in response. The volume of unhinged fact-free commentary and hate speech that's currently being broadcast over the nation's public airwaves is just staggering, not to mention frightening.)



    I should only wish (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 27, 2017 at 07:08:55 PM EST
    Neither of my two exonerees got a dime from the "Commonwealth" of Pennsylvania for their respective two decades behind bars for murders they didn't commit.

    What possible argument could there be (none / 0) (#17)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 11:09:42 AM EST
    for not compensating someone after they were put through an ordeal like that by the state?

    I'd really love to hear what the counterargument is.

    Something something about opening "cans of worms" and having a "chilling effect" on police and prosecutors? What?


    Pennsylvania has no statutory provision (none / 0) (#21)
    by Peter G on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 12:51:08 PM EST
    for it, that's all. The exoneree can sue, but then someone or some governmental body has to found at fault, which is not always the case with exonerations many years later. And lots of potential defendants in the civil suit have immunity from suit of one kind or another. A compensation system is essentially "no-fault," even if not generous. That's what all our surrounding states have.

    At six or seven I moved to State College... (none / 0) (#33)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 03:07:54 PM EST
    Up the road, or down it, was Rockview Penetentiary.  Home of Pennsylvania's "Chair."

    That place had a serious vibe.  I drove past it many times.


    State College is down the road, I would say (none / 0) (#39)
    by Peter G on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 03:49:21 PM EST
    from Rockview. Been there to visit. The one good thing about it, it is near Bellefonte, a beautiful old town with lovely bed-and-breakfasts for the overnight before a day in the prison visiting room.

    Sounds like San Quentin. (none / 0) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 08:19:21 PM EST
    You can see it from San Francisco Bay if you take the ferry to or from Vallejo. "Death Row" is clearly visible from the ferry, housed in a separate four-story brick building on the waterfront just outside the main compound. Brrrr!! Just looking at that place in a photo gives me the creeps.

    Come... (none / 0) (#100)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 04:35:54 PM EST

    People have figured out a way to troll a right-wing pastor who incessantly rails against transgender Americans, Planned Parenthood, and pretty much anything else that doesn't fit into his pathetic, bigoted world view and help the women's health organization at the same time...and it's driving him bananas.

    Donating to Planned Parenthood in his name and having PP send him the thank you note.


    Rachel Dolezal can't find work (none / 0) (#11)
    by McBain on Mon Feb 27, 2017 at 09:50:22 PM EST
    She's the white woman who pretended to be black to be able to work for the NAACP
    The former professor and columnist told the Guardian she's applied for more than 100 jobs, but not a single place will hire her. The only offers that have come her way have been for reality television and porn....

    ... next month she expects to be homeless, the Guardian reported.

    I can understand not doing porn but maybe reality TV might be better than being homeless?  

    When questioned about her race, Dolezal would just tell people that she was mixed, but she doesn't feel as though she was lying.

    "The times I tried to explain more, I wasn't understood more. Nobody wanted to hear, `I'm pan-African, pro-black, bisexual, an artist, mother and educator,'" she told the Guardian. "People would just be like, `Huh? What? What are you talking about?'

    The Biglyest Jerk In American History (none / 0) (#13)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 01:22:31 AM EST
    Spews Bigly Lies about the New York Times.

    President Trump got specific in his latest discussion about the "fake news media," singling out The New York Times for scorn, while heaping praise on Breitbart News and an individual Reuters reporter.

    How long will he continue to get away with this?

    Fifth Circuit Rules (none / 0) (#19)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 12:30:21 PM EST
    ...that the First Amendment still applies in some extremely limited circumstances.

    Video recording police officers.

    Right on. (none / 0) (#29)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 01:43:26 PM EST
    Interesting approval rating stats and gap (none / 0) (#30)
    by Green26 on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 01:57:25 PM EST
    88% Repubs approve of Trump. Only 10% of Dems. Record gap. Lower number of Independents than normal, 38%.

    The charts in this NY Times article are interesting.

    Not suprised (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 02:34:18 PM EST
    to see that based simply on my interactions with Trump supporters. Trump is the GOP and the GOP is Trump. Any Republican in a swing district though those numbers are deadly.

    88%..talk about clutching (none / 0) (#34)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 03:10:22 PM EST
    the proverbial serpent to your bosom..

    And the victory of cultural-psychological validation over reason..

    We'll see how they feel in six months.


    In 6-36 months... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 03:41:57 PM EST
    they'll wonder how Obama, Mexicans, and Muslims are still f*cking them over somehow, despite Trump's herculean efforts to deliver the milk and honey.

    Meanwhile, anti-Semitism reaches the islands. (none / 0) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 05:30:54 PM EST
    Honolulu Star-Advertiser | February 28, 2017
    Honolulu Jewish pre-school target of threatening phone call - "A Honolulu Jewish pre-school was among those targeted in a wave of bomb threats around the country Monday. No one was hurt at the pre-school at the Temple Emanu-El synagogue on the Pali Highway, according to a post on the temple's Facebook page. Jewish centers and day schools in at least a dozen states received threats Monday."

    Welcome to Der Trumpenführer's Dystopia Americana, where white-wing Christianists are duly emboldened to terrorize preschoolers and vandalize cemeteries.

    I'll credit Trump with one thing, backhandedly. He's compelling our country's Jewish and Muslim communities to unite in solidarity against him, if only out of fear and self-preservation.


    (Sigh!) I rest my case. (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:04:22 PM EST
    Haaretz | February 28, 2017
    Trump Reportedly Suggests Wave of anti-Semitic Incidents Could Be False Flags Perpetrated by Jews - "U.S. President Donald Trump on Tuesday indicated for the second time that he believes it is possible that the current wave of anti-Semitic incidents could be 'false flags' - perpetrated by the left or by Jews themselves in order to make his administration and supporters look bad.

    "Trump spoke to a gathering of state attorneys general from across the country that included Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro. Shapiro told reporters in a conference call after the meeting that Trump suggested that the attacks could reflect something other than anti-Semitism, saying that 'the reverse can be true' and 'someone's doing it to make others look bad,' according to Philly.com.

    "The suggestion that the wave of attacks are false flags meant to perpetuate the impression that they were being committed by Trump supporters has been a theme on right-wing conspiracy theory websites and is being promoted aggressively by white supremacist David Duke on his Twitter account. Trump supporter and informal adviser Anthony Scaramucci tweeted a similar suggestion on Tuesday." (Emphasis is mine.)

    Wherever it is that we're going, we can only hold fast to and support one another.


    Donald, Your Posts Would be Better (3.50 / 2) (#51)
    by RickyJim on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:22:39 PM EST
    if they relied less on ad hominems and proofs by authority and more on logic and evidence.  I have no feeling for whether or not your guess or David Duke's is more plausible right now.  Their only point is to get applause from the respective faithful.

    Seriously? (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Yman on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:42:53 PM EST
    I have no feeling for whether or not your guess or David Duke's is more plausible right now.  Their only point is to get applause from the respective faithful.

    That's ridiculous.


    If you had to guess... (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 08:36:31 PM EST
    I have no feeling for whether or not your guess or David Duke's is more plausible right now.

    If one side of an argument is a morally bankrupt, moronic, racist, anti-American lunatic and the other side is a clearly patriotic guy who comes here and writes coherent thoughts in complete sentences...

    How hard could it be to form an opinion?


    One sentence says it all: (none / 0) (#56)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:44:40 PM EST
    RickyJim: "I have no feeling for whether or not your guess or David Duke's is more plausible right now."

    Honestly, if you are going to compare me with David Duke in terms of moral relativism, then not only aren't you a "leftie," you quite obviously don't know your a$$ from your elbow.

    Have a nice evening.


    Supposedly, he will address the issue (none / 0) (#49)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:20:10 PM EST
    before congress tonight:
    Those are just a few of the adjectives used to describe the recent widespread spate of bomb threats that have targeted Jewish Community Centers and schools in 33 states in the United States and two provinces in Canada.

    The threats have reached such a crescendo that President Donald Trump will use his speech to Congress on Tuesday night to address the issue, an administration official told CNN.

    Hopefully he does not spend his time suggesting they are false flags.


    Yes, let's hope so. (none / 0) (#53)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:40:18 PM EST
    it's best to wait for now and hear what Trump actually says tonight, and resist the urge to speculate. But honestly, today's conference call he held with state AGs doesn't inspire much confidence in that regard. Hawaii Atty. Gen. Douglas Chin spoke to reporters in Honolulu earlier this morning after that call, and he was clearly disturbed by what Trump was implying in his remarks.

    Enough with the dog-whistles to white nationalist supporters! Trump needs to grow up and start acting as president of the United States, and stop governing as though we're in "Lord of the Flies." He has to call these jackwagons out for what they're doing, and tell them in no uncertain terms to knock it off.

    Otherwise ...


    So, this is what he said. (none / 0) (#98)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 11:04:10 AM EST
    Tonight, as we mark the conclusion of our celebration of Black History Month, we are reminded of our Nation's path toward civil rights and the work that still remains. Recent threats targeting Jewish Community Centers and vandalism of Jewish cemeteries, as well as last week's shooting in Kansas City, remind us that while we may be a Nation divided on policies, we are a country that stands united in condemning hate and evil in all its forms.

    It's a start. (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 05:19:56 PM EST
    "'Me and my old school pals had some mighty high times down here,
    And what's happened to you poor black folks, well, it just ain't fair.'
    He too a look around, gave a little pep talk,
    Said 'I'm with you,' then he took a little walk.
    Tell me, how can a poor man stand such times and live?"
    - Bruce Springsteen, "How Can a Poor Man Stand Such Times and Live?" We Shall Overcome: The Seeger Sessions (2007)

    Let's see if there's any actual follow through from Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III's Dept. of Justice. What Trump says isn't nearly as important as what's being done -- or not being done, as the case may be.



    Donald. what proof do you have (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 05:39:09 PM EST
    that this is Trump?

    Well, for starters, Jim, there's the fact ... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:18:28 PM EST
    "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
    - Queen Gertrude, William Shapjespeare's "Hamlet," Act III, Scene 2

    ... that you, TL's resident "expert" and advocate for northern European cultural superiority, leap so quickly to defend him.

    Then there's the not so little matter of today's conference call with state attorneys general, in which Der Trumpenführer appeared to channel the message being simultaneously peddled by David Duke, former Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. See my Comment #47 below.



    And here I thought we needed just a bit (none / 0) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:42:12 PM EST
    of evidence....

    But I guess when the King of Paranoia gets his britches in a wad we don't need proof.

    You might as well claim that it is Muslims attacking Jews because they fear not being able to slip in any more radical muslim terrorists.

    And I love when you say...

    "See! He denies it! What more proof do we need!!!"

    Sad, Donald. You'd make a good McCarthite.


    Why would Trump try create (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:51:04 PM EST
    doubt about the events actually occurring, if he wasn't worried that his supporters were behind it?

    Trump has as his senior policy advisor ... (none / 0) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 07:28:30 PM EST
    "The biggest problem he had with [the Archer School for Girls] is the number of Jews that attend. He said that he doesn't like the way they raise their kids to be 'whiny brats' and that he didn't want the girls going to school with Jews."
    - Mary Louise Piccard, former wife of Steve Bannon, declaration to court during child custody proceedings (Los Angeles Superior Court, 2007)

    ... an anti-Semitic white supremacist who objected to his twin daughters going to school with "whiney brat" Jewish girls.

    Nuf ced.


    Trying to figure out ... (none / 0) (#60)
    by Yman on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:59:04 PM EST
    And I love when you say...

    "See! He denies it! What more proof do we need!!!"

    Sad, Donald. You'd make a good McCarthite.

    ... how a guy who constantly pushes wingnut conspiracy theories without the slightest bit of evidence suddenly thinks he can demand evidence from others.  People should just respond with your old  favorite ...

    "Everybody knows ..."


    Has Trump said anything about ... (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 07:43:13 PM EST
    ... the murder of six Muslims by a right-wing white nationalist during evening prayers at a mosque in Quebec, PQ, or the shooting of two Indian engineers by another White Supremacist in Kansas?

    No, he has not. What we've gotten instead from his administration are references to an imaginary massacre in Bowling Green, KY and an equally phony tragedy in Sweden.

    The Trump administration is populated by a cast of conspiracy theorists who are stock characters straight out of a plenary session of the Council of Conservative Citizens and the John Birch Society.



    see, here's the difference (none / 0) (#96)
    by mm on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 05:48:13 AM EST
    Donald is just some guy - albeit an erudite highly educated guy -writing on a blog.

    The guy who said this,

    Trump indicated that the threats at JCCs may have come from "the reverse" or "to make others look bad"

    and this,

    Some of it written by our opponents. You do know that. Do you understand that? You don't think anybody would do a thing like that. Some of the signs you'll see are not put up by the people that love or like Donald Trump, they're put up by the other side, and you think it's like playing it straight?

    No. But you have some of those signs and some of that anger is caused by the other side. They'll do signs, and they'll do drawings that are inappropriate. It won't be my people. It will be the people on the other side to anger people like you. Okay.

    was the effing President of the United States, who has an uncontrollable habit of pulling crap out of his nether regions.  And there seems to be a disturbing pattern that this crap seems to originate from alt-right white nationalist sources.

    Do you ever ask, what is his evidence?
    You do know the Nazis used to blame anti-Semitic acts on the Jews also?
    Does that not disturb you?


    Obviously, it doesn't disturb him, ... (none / 0) (#113)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 02, 2017 at 02:41:17 AM EST
    ... or else he wouldn't be alternately defending Trump and denying that some of the president's wingbat friends are engaged in anti-Semitic activities.

    i need to agree (none / 0) (#77)
    by linea on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 08:46:08 PM EST
    re: "Donald, what proof do you have..."

    law enforcement is telling the public they need to complete the investigation. most often cemetery vandalism and swastika graffiti is caused teens trying to shocking and oppositional to parents.


    Okay -- do you have any proof of THAT? (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 09:52:52 PM EST
    linea: "most often cemetery vandalism and swastika graffiti is caused teens trying to shocking and oppositional to parents."

    It's a rhetorical question, so don't bother to respond. Rather, read the following articles and be informed:

    Christian Science Monitor | February 28, 2017
    Jewish centers cope with bomb threats and vandalism - "Jewish centers and schools across the nation coped with another wave of bomb threats Monday as officials in Philadelphia made plans to repair and restore hundreds of vandalized headstones at a Jewish cemetery. Jewish Community Centers and day schools in at least a dozen states received threats, according to the JCC Association of North America. No bombs were found. All 21 buildings -- 13 community centers and eight schools -- were cleared by Monday afternoon and had resumed normal operations, the association said." (Emphasis is mine.)

    USA Today | February 28, 2017
    Jewish sites reported 31 threats Monday; more than 100 in '17 - "Desecration of grave sites at cemeteries in Philadelphia and outside St. Louis. Swastikas etched on cars in Miami Beach. Bomb threats forcing evacuation of Jewish community centers. Another wave of intimidation targeting Jewish communities swept across the nation Monday, and community leaders and law enforcement struggled to stop it. There were 31 bomb threats Monday, called into 23 community centers and eight Jewish day schools, the JCC Association of North America said. Mark Potok, senior fellow at the Southern Poverty Law Center, said the events marked the fifth series of attacks already this year."



    Seriously???? (none / 0) (#79)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 09:03:28 PM EST
    Teenagers across the country are coordinating bomb threats and vandalism?? You believe that?

    We're obviously not on a blog, Chuck. (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 09:38:41 PM EST
    Rather, we've somehow gotten trapped inside a Fellini film.

    i would be (none / 0) (#80)
    by linea on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 09:13:12 PM EST

    if it were true that someone was coordinating bomb threats and vandalism across the country. as you assert.


    So, your theory, Linea, is that Jewish (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by Peter G on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 09:56:20 PM EST
    community centers and schools all over the country were victimized by bomb threats on the same morning by coincidence? How is that a more likely scenario than coordination of some sort, shocking though the latter possibility may be? In our town (one of the centers is 1.5 miles from my home) the threat came from a phone number that had been spoofed to appear that the call originated inside the community center itself, and the voice was electronically disguised.

    i had not heard that (1.00 / 1) (#91)
    by linea on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 10:42:01 PM EST
    community centers and schools all over the country were victimized by bomb threats on the same morning

    i was under the impression there was random cemetery vandalism and swastika graffiti over the last several days.

    maybe it is 4-chan (alt-right)


    i googled (none / 0) (#93)
    by linea on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 11:01:01 PM EST
    and found this (link below). considering how vast america is; i really cant say. best to wait until law enforcement investigates.

    washington post
    Is anti-Semitism truly on the rise in the U.S.? It's not so clear.


    You might want to update that link (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by Peter G on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 11:13:16 PM EST
    from ten days ago, with this:
    On February 27, there were 31 incidents of bomb threats called into 23 JCCs and eight Jewish day schools in Alabama, Arizona, California, Delaware, Florida, Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, Nevada, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Virginia, Washington state, and Calgary (Canada).
    From a source that appears to me to be reliable. And that does not include the cemetery vandalism. Of course, I look forward to evaluating for myself whatever the FBI and local law enforcement can discover from their investigations.

    You could have googled more (none / 0) (#112)
    by Towanda on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 11:57:14 PM EST
    and found out that law enforcement investigations already have shown, from many stories -- that the threats have come in "five waves" this year, five times totaling 100 incidents at 81 locations in 33 states and two Canadian provinces.  And that most calls have used sophisticated voice-masking technology, similar technology in dozens of calls.

    Or, sure, you can pretend that these are just random pranks. And that we ought not even discuss this here, awaiting law enforcement investigations . . . that already have shown, from many stories, see first paragraph above.



    Overseas (none / 0) (#118)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Mar 02, 2017 at 08:25:55 PM EST
    Law enforcement officials believe many of the threatening calls to Jewish community centers have originated overseas. So far, none of the threats have been carried out. But the lack of destruction has not made them any less chaotic or anxiety-inducing.


    overseas (none / 0) (#120)
    by linea on Thu Mar 02, 2017 at 09:32:19 PM EST
    is a big place.

    Exactly (none / 0) (#121)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Mar 02, 2017 at 09:35:07 PM EST
    But it means foreign groups. Not American or locally based
    And coordinated

    my money is on (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by linea on Thu Mar 02, 2017 at 10:32:48 PM EST
    an adult male living with his mother in prague (curse you czechs!) rather than the finnish chapter of the hells angels. assumimg it's not a russian... or somebody from egypt or iran or new zealand.

    A View from Down Under: Anti-Semitism rising in NZ


    The Finnish chapter (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Mar 03, 2017 at 05:46:23 AM EST
    Of Hells Angels is decidedly Anti Putin,

    No Putin Puppets there

    As for the rest , anti semitism is a world wide disease, just take your pick from the usual suspects,

    Or could be from the UN


    Strange comment Trevor. (none / 0) (#128)
    by fishcamp on Sat Mar 04, 2017 at 06:37:42 AM EST
    I know several Hells Angels and they have never mentioned their Finnish brothers being decidedly anti Putin.

    Just playing with (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Mar 04, 2017 at 10:48:17 AM EST
    The history between Finland and Russia.

    Finland did not take kindly to the invasion of their country by Russia.And actually fought back valiantly and quite well.
    Donald will provide a more thorough and detailed review of this topic if requested, in fact, he has once before.

    I always make sure to watch the international hockey games between the Finns and Russians, quite heated.
    During the 60's and 70's, when Russian hockey reigned supreme, if I remember correctly, the Finns accounted for themselves very well


    I Wouldn't Be That Quick (none / 0) (#45)
    by RickyJim on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 05:48:01 PM EST
    to assess that "white-wing Christianists" are to blame.  That is imitating Trump's style of blaming obvious targets customized to stir up an intended audience.  I am an evidence oriented leftie.

    Really, "evidence-oriented leftie"? (none / 0) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 06:22:10 PM EST
    Then who, pray tell, do you believe to be responsible for this wave of threats and vandalism against Jewish (and Muslim) targets - the New Black Panthers?

    Stop admiring the view, and pull your head out of your butt.


    Well, So Far We Know Trump Was Closer to the Truth (none / 0) (#124)
    by RickyJim on Fri Mar 03, 2017 at 11:37:50 AM EST
    than you, Donald.  Apparently 8 of the threats came from a black, liberal journalist Juan Thompson who was trying to harass his white girlfriend.  Link

    Juan Thompson allegedly accounts for only eight of them.

    And there were reports (none / 0) (#130)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Mar 04, 2017 at 10:49:35 AM EST
    That many were based overseas...as in a foreign country.

    You and both know that those ignorant Trumpers don't travel abroad.



    Maybe (none / 0) (#131)
    by FlJoe on Sat Mar 04, 2017 at 10:54:22 AM EST
    the ignorant tRumpsters don't but his Russian loving associates and family sure do get around.

    Lol (none / 0) (#132)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Mar 04, 2017 at 12:10:13 PM EST
    Just dive right into the kool aid why don't you.

    So now Those evil Russians are The Donald's puppets,

    Calling in bomb threats to Jews in the United States.



    Please (none / 0) (#133)
    by FlJoe on Sat Mar 04, 2017 at 12:41:30 PM EST
    learn to read, I was commenting on the travel habits of different classes of tRumpians. It was you who asserted that the perps were foreign, personally I have no clue and I can only speculate until I see more evidence.

    It could very well be Russians, still trying to stir up unrest, it could be home grown racists, deranged copycats or ignorant pranksters, most likely some combination of the latter three.

    The Russians have allegedly been involved with stirring up racial resentment across Europe to help their political allies, but I don't think the Russian would actively participate in this country at this time, the heat is on so to speak.

    Fortunately for the Russians the useful idiots abound, whether it be the emboldened neo-nazis here and abroad or deranged copycats.


    A Beachhead of Terrorism (none / 0) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 09:57:27 PM EST
    It's like the Axis of Evil only with John Wayne in it.

    Is someone supposed to believe that? (none / 0) (#88)
    by Yman on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 10:02:28 PM EST
    Any of it?

    I know I don't.

    Who cares? (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 03:55:34 AM EST
    Jim can't and won't address the issue of anti-Semitism and white nationalism, because as a Trump supporter / apologist, his own cause is firmly wedded to it. And so, he deflects with personal insults and general denials, punctuated by claims that anyone who would say such things is irrational.

    He's on the wrong side of history.


    comments in reply to this were (none / 0) (#109)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 08:15:32 PM EST
    deleted. Name calling of other commenters is not allowed here and comments with personal character attacks and slanted and false facts presented as facts instead of as one's opinion will be deleted when I see them (which isn't often enough.)

    video (none / 0) (#89)
    by linea on Tue Feb 28, 2017 at 10:09:17 PM EST
    Speaking of straws (none / 0) (#99)
    by Yman on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 01:10:40 PM EST
    No one even claimed to have their arm broken - as usual, you can't even get your allegations straight.  One guy claimed he was assaulted, but the only evidence he offered was some pictures of bloodied clothing.  The same guy who was consume claimed he walked right past police officers who he said were ignoring assaults right in front of them and did nothing.

    He's as believable as most Trumpers.

    You're right and my bad ;-) (none / 0) (#108)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 08:08:02 PM EST
    Still wrong (none / 0) (#111)
    by Yman on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 10:47:29 PM EST
    He claimed he had his nose broken.

    No idea why anyone would believe a word a Trumper says.


    i would totally vote for Opra (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 06:26:07 PM EST
    before any lining republican

    LIVING (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 06:26:36 PM EST

    Opra (none / 0) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 06:31:54 PM EST
    Howdy, if you hadn't smashed (none / 0) (#114)
    by fishcamp on Thu Mar 02, 2017 at 07:44:46 AM EST
    your iPad, and gotten a crappy imitation you wouldn't be having these spelling problems.  But I understand that you need the extra bucks for your house.  

    The gym guys were all bragging about how Trump"s wonderful speech has driven the stock market up.  I told them the stock market goes up every time any president gives any speech.  It will probably plunge when it's revealed he was talking out his butt, just to make the shallow minded happy.  


    i turned off spell correct (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 03, 2017 at 02:56:12 PM EST
    preferring my mispellings to what spell correct "thinks i meant"

    spell correct is actually available on non apple products.


    i really like (none / 0) (#126)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 03, 2017 at 03:01:11 PM EST
    the andriod OS.  more than apple.

    How are the guys (none / 0) (#115)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 02, 2017 at 08:14:21 AM EST
    at the gym taking the news that entire Trump administration seems to be infested with Russian agents?

    Ga, those guys are in full denial. (none / 0) (#116)
    by fishcamp on Thu Mar 02, 2017 at 02:42:29 PM EST
    Ah, yes (none / 0) (#117)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 02, 2017 at 03:52:28 PM EST
    I know some like that. They think the whole Russian thing is a conspiracy theory.

    The Russia story (none / 0) (#106)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 01, 2017 at 07:26:50 PM EST
    is back link

    European intelligence has the goods on Trump's campaign meeting with associates of Putin.

    Eventually the whole story of Trump being aided by Russia is going to come out but it's likely not going to come out of the intelligence committee after Burr attempted to tamp down on any stories coming out.

    Are Republicans so stupid as they think they can't be implicated in this mess too? It sure sounds like it.

    What a lovely piece (none / 0) (#134)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Mar 04, 2017 at 04:50:25 PM EST
    Albeit quite sad as well
    Reminded me of my parents, they did not have the time together that they should have.


    I have been trying to write this for a while, but the morphine and lack of juicy cheeseburgers (what has it been now, five weeks without real food?) have drained my energy and interfered with whatever prose prowess remains. Additionally, the intermittent micronaps that keep whisking me away midsentence are clearly not propelling my work forward as quickly as I would like. But they are, admittedly, a bit of trippy fun.

    Still, I have to stick with it, because I'm facing a deadline, in this case, a pressing one. I need to say this (and say it right) while I have a) your attention, and b) a pulse.

    I have been married to the most extraordinary man for 26 years. I was planning on at least another 26 together.