Al Franken Resigns

Democrats just shot themselves in the foot. After his fellow Congresspersons began calling on Al Franken to resign, Al Franken has done just that. What a loss from a policy perspective.

It reminds me of the old adage, "one cannot serve two masters." I'd much rather have someone in Congress who was going to advocate for legislation that will help me and all Americans, than not have someone there there because of actions in his personal life before he became a member of Congress.

Here are some of the members calling for him to resign, even though he denies the latest allegation of an uninvited kiss, Franken told Politico:

This allegation is categorically not true and the idea that I would claim this as my right as an entertainer is preposterous. I look forward to fully cooperating with the ongoing ethics committee investigation.”

Alice in Wonderland time: First the punishment, then the verdict.

If that's the new law of the land, why is Donald Trump still in office?

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    Franken (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by lc on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 11:13:12 AM EST
    Unbelievable!!  Trump is in the White House and Alabameans are about to elect a pedophile as senator, but Franken has to resign?  Is this the Twilight Zone?

    uneducated comment (1.00 / 2) (#116)
    by thomas rogan on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 02:29:17 PM EST
    1.  Pedophiles are sexually attracted to prepubescent children NOT teenagers.
    2.  As recently as June 2017 when Governor Cuomo signed a new law the age of marriage in New York was 14.  

    Franken (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by lc on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 05:12:58 PM EST
    Well, aren't you a ray of sunshine?  Yes, I know adults attracted to teenagers are called hebephiles or ephebephiles.  I was just expressing frustration that Al Franken has to resign, while the "family values" crowd is ready to elect a pervert.

    Why don't you take your oh so educated comments back to Breitbart.


    Will you quit (5.00 / 3) (#119)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 05:24:02 PM EST
    spreading this lie about NY? I knocked it down in another thread.

    Okay. (none / 0) (#124)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 07:14:13 PM EST
    The correct term is "ephebophile." From Segen's Medical Dictionary:

    Ephebophilia (ə-fē′bə-fĭl′ē-ə, -fēl′yə) n. Sexual preference by an older person, usually understood to be an older man, for a girl in mid-to-late adolescence, the consummation of which is illegal in most jurisdictions.

    Is that better now? Oh, and last I heard, Roy Moore's hometown of Gadsden is in Alabama, not New York.

    Try again there, buckwheat.


    Really, TRo, this comment of yours, which (none / 0) (#126)
    by Peter G on Sat Dec 09, 2017 at 03:24:23 PM EST
    you have posted before (only to be debunked before), is like saying, "You are uneducated (and by implication therefore wrong) to say that grandpa had a stroke. What he had was a transient ischemic attack." So what? Is grandpa all better now? Should I stop worrying about his blood pressure and clogged arteries? Now that we've cleared that up, is it ok if he keeps smoking?

    Meet (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by FlJoe on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 11:22:29 AM EST
    the new law same as the old law, IOKIYAR.

    The Democrats... (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by desertswine on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 12:40:01 PM EST
    are taking the High Road to oblivion.

    I don't think so (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:00:07 PM EST
    I think he chose to be the Renaissance man. Capthowdy said yesterday he wondered if Franken wasn't going to set a precedent because we have a whole bunch of members of Congress about to be exposed for sexual harassment and pay offs. Ezra Klein tweeted right after the resignation that many critters are about to be exposed. Another journalist tweeted 20-30.

    By next election cycle Franken is full blown hero for doing the right thing.


    I dunno MT (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by smott on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:12:31 PM EST
    I think the Dems are the only ones playing this game, and not sure the risks don't outweigh the rewards.
    I would have preferred AF to at least wait for the ethics hearing.
    GOP will laugh all the way to the bank now that Dems have set resignation without investigation/hearing as their new standard.
    If there's 50 critters exposed, and 25 are GOP, exactly 0 will step down.
    How many Dems step down?

    We're the only side playing the Purity Game, and we're doing it in extraordinarily dangerous times.

    Dahlia Lithwick in Salon had a great article on this yesterday. Worth a read.


    The fact the Alabama race is as close as it is (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:24:58 PM EST
    I'm freakin shocked. Sexual harassment and assault is being addressed though. Even in Alabama. Republican women...in Alabama...begging for people to hear them and believe them. That's new behavior.

    Franken put us beyond the purity thing.He's not going away either, he said as much. We are going to battle in the 2018 election cycle as the pervs vs. normal folks.

    These vile Republicans for years said they were the value peeps and they sold a line that half this country bought that we were pervs cuz when someone needs to pee we just let them pee, and we cared about LGBT peeps too. They said that made us all deviants. That story is biting the dust hard today.


    If Moore wins in Alabama (none / 0) (#23)
    by MKS on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:25:34 PM EST
    there will be a lot of second guessing.

    I don't think a criminal conviction is necessary. But an ethnics investigation would provide some process to determine the facts.


    I expect Moore to win in Alabama by 3% (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:37:16 PM EST
    But that the margin could be that small is incredible.

    I won't be second guessing anything though. The Republicans are going to seat a child molester while I hope they fail.

    Franken didn't choose this cuz Moore. He chose this cuz 2018.

    If you think seating a child molester isn't going to matter...you are so jaded my friend. This must be what Trump has spiritually brought us to :)


    Hope you are right (none / 0) (#72)
    by MKS on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 04:20:12 PM EST
    They were your neighbors, so I'll go with you.  

    i agree with all of that (none / 0) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 04:25:47 PM EST
    except i still think Moore might lose.

    Being next door (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 08:17:47 PM EST
    all we hear these days is Alabama is neck and neck. I would not put either as winning and personally say 50/50. Don't think Franken resigning is going to make much difference in this race.

    the republicans are loving this (none / 0) (#30)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:59:59 PM EST
    and playing the Dems like a fiddle.

    And I completely disagree (none / 0) (#33)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:09:49 PM EST
    But if women aren't careful we will argue ourselves into missing the next train to our equality.

    in no way do I feel (none / 0) (#122)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 05:35:35 PM EST
    unequal to anyone. I don't want to be stereotyped by gender. No one speaks for all women. I am not on this bandwagon.

    And they will continue (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:46:00 PM EST
    To love it until the 2018 election

    Good comment on Armandos TL (none / 0) (#19)
    by smott on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:13:46 PM EST
    Something like "Small. Pure. Powerless."

    Wonderful. (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 12:58:29 PM EST
    Now we'll end up with Michelle Bachmann in the Senate. She and Moore can beat the Democrats over the head with the bibles daily.

    That whack-a-doodle (none / 0) (#20)
    by MKS on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:14:38 PM EST
    can't win statewide.  Franken was not going to have an easy re-election in any event.

    Armando was a bit cutthroat on this....but not necessarily wrong.


    And Franken is no longer in the perv pack (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:30:45 PM EST
    About to come down in the House and Senate. He set himself apart...utterly...before that caca hit the fan. He will be lumped in with none of them.

    Schumer spent the weekend with him.

    Being a sexual harassment hero though, that could get him elected in Minnesota. Wouldn't we all rather he chooses the Presidency though and runs against sexual assaulter Trump?  I do.


    You're dreamin'. (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:55:40 PM EST
    If all the Dem. Reps and Senators who allegedly sexually harassed another at any time are publicly outed and then resign, Dem. representation in House and Senate will diminish as no GOP resigns and GOP takes some on the suddenly vacant seats.

    Who said they are all going to resign? (none / 0) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:07:06 PM EST
    They are going to burn themselves down. They are going to burn the Republican party to ash most likely.

    Please notice, Franken still has a political career. He didn't blow anyone up, he didn't blow anything down. He's not going to drag us all through the allegations, but I bet he addresses them on his own. He is likely free to run and win again.

    These other hill folks, the Republicans among them are most likely going to drag everyone through hell while we are already in hell.

    I don't know how you guys have become so faithless.


    I'm with you Tracy. (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:33:03 PM EST
    I think Franken will run again for something when all this cools down. However now we can start to go after Farenhold, Barton, Clarence Thomas and Trump.

    He ought to run against Trump in 2020 (none / 0) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:41:21 PM EST
    If women are woke because of where the 2016 election brought us all, I don't intend to squander that either.

    My candidate paid a miserable price in getting women to this place and this momentum.


    Very true. (none / 0) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 08:23:35 PM EST
    In some ways we kind of owe Hillary to keep this up until it's finished. She paid the biggest price but we all have been paying the price for a long, long before she ran for presidency. Just like 2016 was the perfect storm for Trump to get in the white house. It is now our time to create the perfect storm to take all these jokers down. It is 2017 and Republicans think that they need to decide what kind of birth control all the women in the country should use or if they should even have access to birth control at all? I see what they are doing and it truly feels like I'm stuck in some sort of time warp.

    I hope you're right. (none / 0) (#44)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:55:19 PM EST
    But I bet she runs.

    The 33 dems and Franken (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:56:30 PM EST
    Did the right thing.  So what if republicans won't.  We are never going to win again if we don't stop trying to be the less worst.

    This is going to be a massive issue in the next election.  

    It amazes me that people can't see that when Newt Gingrich is defending Franken on FOX news there is more to this than we now see.

    There is a secret slush fund of TAX PAYER MONEY being used to buy off accusers.  How long do you think it's going to stay secret?

    Do you think maybe republicans are crapping their pants because next year before the election several of them are going to get to explain to their constituents why they used their money to buy off their victims?

    Al Franken did the right thing today.  He did not die.  As he himself said he will be fine.

    I do not expect him to be silent or disappear from politics or political discourse.  Their will be another demo rat appointed.

    I think Franken may run again.  I hope he does

    Ha (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:00:53 PM EST
    Demo rat was a spell correct betrayal

    I have long (none / 0) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 04:07:27 PM EST
    suspected that Newt is going to get it when that information comes out. I'm sure Newt defending Franken is really about Newt and not any other Republicans. I also think Paul Ryan has only let the names of D's on that list out hoping to help Moore. I'm willing to bet 75% of the names are Republicans.

    oh definitely CYA (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 04:33:21 PM EST
    you KNOW he is on the list.  but absolutely.  75% is a very reasonable and possibly even conservative number.

    Newt is not the olny one on the right shocked and deeply saddened by Frankens shameful treatment.


    Democrats aren't just shooting themselves (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:05:02 PM EST
    in the foot. They are putting the gun to their head. And buying the bullets. And loading the gun. And then handing to their fellow Democrat.

    The fact that Roy Moore is still running and the dotard doofus is living in the White House (after the "grab'em" tape) is more than enough proof that the GOP cares not one iota about personal conduct. They have no morals. As Anne said, they only care about winning. Nothing else. They care nothing for the country or its people. Only power.

    For that reason alone, Al Franken should remain in the Senate until the voters of Minnesota decide otherwise. Not Gillebrand, not that schmuck "Rollover" Schumer.

    Bill Maher keeps saying on his show that the Democrats have get in the mud. Fight dirt with dirt. I agree. Until that happens, have fun being the minority party. Have fun letting scum like the dotard, McConnell and Ryan make the rules you all live under.

    Me, I got to find a way out. I have lost all hope that anything will change. I have no hope for the US. Being an American is now a source of shame and disgrace. Maybe if I just show up on my sister's doorstep in Nanjing, she'll take pity on me.

    I disagree with every word (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:11:18 PM EST
    Democrats can not "get in the dirt" and "fight mud with mud".  You know why?  Because we actually believe in things.  And by WE I mean us,  voters.

    Are you a actually suggesting that to defeat republicans we should also check our brains and conscience at the door and vote for the R "no matter what"?

    The republicans can do what they do because they and their base believe in nothing but power.  If we are going to accept that why even have two parties?

    Franken resigned because a war is coming and he just gave the democrats the high ground.


    Moral high ground (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:14:49 PM EST
    will win 0 elections. See Roy Moore and dotard doofus.

    But, hey, we can disagree once in awhile. From one demo rat to another.


    I don't think so. (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:18:43 PM EST
    This is going to be an issue next year.  By resigning democrats just made it orders of magnitude harder for the republicans to accept Moore.

    Not only that if they DO NOT expel Moore he, along with Trump, will be the star of every democratic campaign ad next year.

    And it will win elections.

    I would grant you it might not win alone but republicans were already going into this with a headwind.  They have many problems.  They just got one more.


    Howdy. (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:25:18 PM EST
    You give Americans too much credit. I have no faith that the high moral ground means anything to the GOP base. They are high and mighty, waving flags and being offended by kneeling football players. But in reality, they don't care. They just don't care. They just want to put and keep 'libtards' down. You don't read enough of reader comments right leaning websites. If you did, you would realize these people have no morals, no ethics. Nothing. They have no respect for anything or anyone. It's all me, me, me. I got mine and eff the rest of you.

    you misunderstand me (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:33:19 PM EST
    i give republicans NO credit.  but at this point thats about 33%

    and i do not necessarily give "americans" all that much credit.

    i believe politics revolves around one or two basic axioms.  one is people do not register to vote to vote FOR something.  they will register to vote to vote AGAINST something.  Trump, Moore, Farenthold, taking from the poor and giving to the rich and etc gives people a really big "something" to vote against.

    of course they dont care.  but the good news is there is more of us than them.  we just need to get people to vote.  and i really really believe than next year you are going to see an awsum display of registering to vot against something.


    Again (none / 0) (#65)
    by FlJoe on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:46:48 PM EST
    Lithwick is dead right. There is no commonly accepted Moral High Ground left to occupy anymore, and to pretend one exists is to live in a masturbatory fantasyland. It's like lining yourself up behind Miss Manners in a political debate against Machiavelli.
    (heck of a paraphrase Charlie, thats why we love you)

    Pierce (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:50:06 PM EST
    is quite often completely full of sh!t.  thats a great example.

    did you ever hear the phrase "you become what you hate"?

    i will not become what i hate.  


    Pierce (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by FlJoe on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 05:38:05 PM EST
    is a dyed in the wool cynic, I don't have to squint to hard to see this everytime I turn on the electric tv machine
    You look across a political landscape like the one that the last few decades have created, and the Moral High Ground looks like the lichen-mottled ruins of a dead civilization.

    I have waffled on Franken, but came to the conclusion he had to go, mostly agreeing with your political reasoning. That's not without some seething anger that Pierce and others address.

    Nobody wants to abandon their morals, but everyone should be aware that the great advantage once afforded politicians by holding the high ground is long gone and if you have to spend too much time policing your own it's a big fat loser in this environment, and it will certainly be weaponized by the right.

    I'm here

    Until the Democrats are willing to think asymmetrically about the very real political danger posed by the president* and his party, the danger will grow until it becomes uncontrollable, and that point is coming very soon, I fear.

    Franken is gone, we should all probably just quit arguing about it and figure out what our next step is, and it surely isn't just waiting for the midterms and waving our moral superiority  in their faces.

    Fk it, now that we have sacrificed for this latest hill we need to come roaring down like banshees, with fact based demagoguery to at least counter their fox-fable based lies. "Moore is a pervert", "tRump is a traitor", the GOP are hypocritical puppets of the oligarchs. Create the talking points Luntzwize and don't relent. Every pol and pundit say it loud and clear in every conversation, talk over the apologists and attack attack and attack.


    you get no argument from me (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 06:03:24 PM EST
    about any of that.  certainly about waiting for the midterms.  there is organizing going on right across the country.  at a scale i have never seen.

    i think Trump is an anomaly.  it was a perfect storm of discontent and Russian influence.  lately im more and more sure of the Russian part.  i have talked to many people who said a version of 'i NEVER thought he would win or i would never have voted for him'. (eyeroll)   heck even he did not think he would win.

    but i think it will consequences no one could have forseen.  one i think will be a massive wave election.  if we, and the world, can survive till then.

    on Pierce, i like reading him and i agree with him about 70% of the time.  but when i disagree with him its usually visceral.


    Luv ya Captain (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by smott on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:26:52 PM EST
    But truly disagree.
    Republicans have no issue accepting Moore or Trump or any other lowlife.

    There was once a strain of Republican that might have cared but they're rapidly becoming extinct.

    The current brand of Repub will let Trump sh-t down their throat (and swallow) just as long as LibTards have to smell it.

    Seriously, the more they know Moore triggers Dems, the more tribal they become, and Moore surges in the polls as a result.

    I really think we're long past the point of trying to appeal to Republicans with our virtue, or imagining we can shame them.


    as i said above (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:34:54 PM EST
    all true but they are 33%  i do not suggest appealing to republicans.  

    what i mean is (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:42:57 PM EST
    50% of eligible voters stay home because they see no difference.  what i see in this thread is keep showing them no difference.  i suggest that we TRY to show them there is a difference.  

    it may not work.  but we can never out slime republicans.  period,  we cant.  

    maybe we can show people something else.  something if not to vote FOR something that might at least be a vehicle for voting AGAINST.


    I really, really hope you are right and (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by vml68 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 04:09:41 PM EST
    FLJOe, Chuck, et al and I, are wrong, but I am not very optimistic.

    maybe we can show people something else.

    All I see, is that we are showing people that the Republicans can steam roll us any time they want and we just sit back and let them. IMO, in Franken's case, we are actively helping them.
    How many people want to be on the team that gets sand kicked in their face all the time?

    A lot of white women had no issues with voting for Tr*mp even though they knew how disgusting he was. One of Franken's accusers claimed that she was traumatized by him grabbing her butt, but she had no problem voting for the pu$$y grabber! Give me a f^(king break!

    I know of someone (can't go into details or name names here because it is not my story to tell) who gave a six figure amount to Tr*mp at a fundraiser during the campaign. During the fundraiser, Tr*mp sees this guy's wife and makes a crude gesture indicating him having sex with his wife. Guy was shocked. Did not ask for his money back. Probably still voted for Tr*mp.


    i hated seeing Franken resign (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 04:31:15 PM EST
    im sure every one of those 33 senators did too.  

    they just played a clip of a frothing Laura Ingram on MSNBC.  she was really upset because (paraphrase)

    you know what.  even a stopped clock is right twice aday.  it was a political calculation.  a painful and smart one.

    and IMO the commenters you site are not "wrong".  i agree with most of what they said.

    on Franken we disagree.  


    Comment from an article on Franken (2.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 11:35:53 AM EST
    and Moore in the WaPo on why Franken is gone yet Moore may soon be seated.

    "because the Dims are stupid and would rather "hold the moral high ground" as they are sent to the extermination camps."

    Sad. But I fear, all too true.


    Yes, it is not (none / 0) (#69)
    by KeysDan on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 04:09:02 PM EST
    as if the goal is to capture the un-capturable, it is to sharpen the differences for those seeking differences.  The both parties are the same, and all politicians are crooks etc. needs to be dispelled so as to enthuse voters so as to get out and vote. There are real differences between parties, as the 2016 election results is demonstrating.

    Re: Outslime (none / 0) (#89)
    by vicndabx on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 10:50:25 PM EST
    Speaking for me only, not talking about going into the ditch with the GOP.

    However, we should've fought harder for the place where the "that's offensive" line is drawn. Where it's at now is ridiculous.

    "You squeezed my shoulder twice, it must mean something sexual." Oh well, you're on par with Weinstein or a child molester. Gotta go gotta go.  

    I don't disagree with the goal, and I also see the point about distinctions. Long term political impact, it's speculation. As soon as some male Dem screws up, any advantage you gained is gone.


    It absolutely is speculation (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 07:47:42 AM EST
    What is not is republicans and their water carriers can no longer deflect every legitimate criticism with "what about Franken?".

    Al understood this.  I keep seeing that speech.  Every time it's like a knife in the heart.  Al was collateral damage.  In a way we all were.  Sometimes  collateral damage is worth it.  We don't know yet if this was.  

    But this is a truth.  Democrats are taking the last refuge of the Looney right.  They are becoming the party of "family values".  But this time it's a much larger and more diverse family.

    If that works it will be worth some collateral damage.


    Howdy, I am a fan but... (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by jmacWA on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 08:58:15 AM EST
    You are loosing me on this one.
    For the first 9 months no one could deflect with "What about Franken?"; and this got us absolutely nowhere.  My fear is the "Looney right" just doesn't give a rat's a55 about what ground they hold.  IMO, they have a firm grip on the "low ground", but holding the high ground has brought the D's nothing, but a promise to replace Franken with a Democrat, that will NOT run as an incumbent.  I am beginning to feel in pretty strong agreement with a comment I saw in the NYTimes.
    Dems bring Kale to a gunfight

    You may be right (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 09:20:16 AM EST
    I may be right.  But the truths is there is a LOT more coming. We know this.  

     The 35 den senators who said Al needed to go know more about this than either of us.  If you add the faux outrage of the likes of Ingram and Gingrich I feel very comfortable siding with 35 den senators.  And in spite of what's been said Al had a choice.  He fell on his sword for a reason.

    Also, the first 9 months was a different age.  Harvey was first outed 2 months ago (seems like 2 years ago) and the ground is shifting under our feet.

    And kale is excellent for long term health.


    There will always be a "what about...? (none / 0) (#107)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 09:48:52 AM EST
    that can be thrown in Dems' faces.  I'm sure the GOP dirt-diggers and rat-fkers are hard at work looking for something on someone else who, because Franken resigned, will no longer have any argument for why he shouldn't also have to resign.

    As for how this will play out in 2018, who knows?  I think there's a lot more and a lot worse that's coming like a freight train, and I'm at the point where I just hope the result isn't a massive constitutional crisis and learning how to live under martial law.


    I believe the 2 (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 10:18:33 AM EST
    Are not unrelated.  I think our last and only hope is a wave election.  This COULD help with that.  There is no certainty in this universe except if we democrats don't take at least one chamber next we are fu@ked

    That's (none / 0) (#108)
    by FlJoe on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 10:00:27 AM EST
    a pretty big "if" there. I also think Franken was thrown under the bus for political rather than moral reasons and his demise has certainly cut off an obvious route of deflection for the right. I would love to think that the Democrats are playing a well thought out gambit, where they are sacrificing a piece to gain ultimate advantage, but these are Democrats and even single dimensional chess often seems to be beyond their reach.

    In any case if as you feel, and I merely hope, that we have gained a political advantage, it is probably not as huge as it should be and also probably quite fleeting. If this advantage exists at all it must be taken advantage of immediately and with excessive force.


    Yep (none / 0) (#109)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 10:03:41 AM EST
    Ezra Klein

    Franken's resignation creates a precedent that will likely engulf many of his colleagues. Given the rumors of coming exposes on many other members of Congress, and the resources media orgs are putting into chasing down leads, 2018 is going to be quite an election.

    2018: Year of the Woman? (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 11:06:14 AM EST
    For real this time, maybe?

    But but but. A Dem female FL politician (none / 0) (#113)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 01:31:53 PM EST
    just sent to prison.  

    For a sex crime involving an underling? (none / 0) (#125)
    by Peter G on Sat Dec 09, 2017 at 03:12:57 PM EST
    Not very likely.

    No. (none / 0) (#127)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 09, 2017 at 04:52:47 PM EST
    no way (none / 0) (#120)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 05:25:54 PM EST
    "By resigning democrats just made it orders of magnitude harder for the republicans to accept Moore."

    They have no problem accepting anyone who will defeat a Democrat. They would rather see a child molester in the Senate than a Democrat. They have said so.


    We will see (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 05:37:49 PM EST
    The news today is sheriff Joe plans to run for the Senate.  

    I think they will try to oust Moore.  That won't be easy.  The RSCC want nothing to do with him.  And many republican senators are smart enough to feel the same.

    I still think, from a totally political view - it not good for anyone to have a child molester in the Senate, it's not bad for us either way.

    That said I think Moore loses. But that won't solve the GOPs Moore problem.  At this point they own him win or lose.


    And, Trump and (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by KeysDan on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:22:17 PM EST
    the Republicans believe in power to the extent that they are aiming for a different form of government--more the Russian model of oligarchy, kleptocracy, and kakistocracy.

    Trump is still in office because he's a fighter (none / 0) (#2)
    by McBain on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 11:21:55 AM EST
    and because he's not an establishment politician.  Basically, he plays by his rules.  

    I'm not a fan of Franken the politician (I did enjoy his work on SNL) but I don't like this forced resignation. Other countries are fine with their leaders having affairs and being less than perfect gentlemen.  Why do we have to be so uptight?

    We don't expect our athletes to be roll models, so we give them a pass on this kind of stuff.  Why is it such a big deal with a politicians or Hollywood entertainer gets accused of something.  We know about JFKs shenanigans, it's not as if we always thought politicians were angels.

    I'm seriously considering taking up a (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Anne on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 11:40:39 AM EST
    collection to see if we can buy you a clue, because you don't appear to have any available.

    "Boys will be boys" is just super - if you're a boy.

    Trump isn't still in office because he's a fighter, he's still there because his party's standards have sunk so low that even child molesters/predators are acceptable.  

    This isn't about sex or about consensual affairs,or being uptight: it's about the abuse of power.  It's also about an essential disrespect for women.  Roy Moore, in addition to his skeezy, disgusting past, has so little respect for women that he doesn't think they should be allowed to hold public office.  Probably thinks we'd be better off not being able to vote, either.

    You really just don't get it.


    then I don't get it either (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 12:19:46 PM EST
    as to Franken. He didn't abuse his power, he was not in a position of power at the time, there have been no claims since he became a senator I'm aware of  and most importantly, he denies the last claim.

    I've said any number of times that (none / 0) (#11)
    by Anne on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 12:43:16 PM EST
    I thought Franken's suggestion to have an ethics investigation done on himself was a good idea - I don't know why he is abandoning it now.  I don't like the fact that Roger Stone is likely involved with the initial Tweeden accusation, which automatically makes me skeptical that it's being presented honestly.

    And I have said I don't care about consensual affairs or the sex lives of politicians.

    Franken's situation does not appear to be about power, but look around, Jeralyn: Roy Moore and Donald Trump and Blake Farenthold, and plenty of others absolutely used their power and status to impose themselves on women.

    And it's the willingness of the GOP to embrace someone like Moore, or Trump, at the expense of credible women that needs to change - and it's not going to as long as there are people who persist in lumping harassment and abuse in with consensual activity and making out like everyone's just too uptight.


    so if its not equatable to Franken (none / 0) (#28)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:53:45 PM EST
    why hold him to the same standard and demand such a severe consequence?

    Jeralyn, I think you need to go back and (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Anne on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:45:42 PM EST
    re-read McBain's comment.  

    Specifically, McBain wonders why we aren't fine with our leaders having affairs and being less than perfect gentlemen, and wonders why we have to be so uptight.

    First, Franken didn't have an affair - he's accused of inappropriately touching/groping/kissing someone without her consent.  Others have accused him of grabbing their butts while being photographed at public events.

    Moore didn't have an affair.  He trolled the malls flirting with underage girls, took a 14 yr old girl to his home and removed her clothing and some of his own and there was touching involved.  He offered to take a 16 yr old home from her diner job, locked her in the car, tried to assault her and then warned her that no one would believe her if she told them what happened because he was the DA.  No consent was possible in either case because of their age.  

    Trump isn't accused of having an affair.  He's been accused by 12 or more women of groping/touching/kissing them without their consent.

    I don't think any of these fall into the category of "leaders having affairs and being less than perfect gentlemen."  I don't think anyone's being "uptight" for not thinking the behavior was appropriate.

    Do we really give athletes a pass for "this kind of stuff?"  To some extent sports leagues and team management have looked the other way if the athlete was talented or valuable enough, and been somewhat selective in their treatment of athletes accused of inappropriate behavior or violence, but I don't think fans are okay with it.

    McBain wants to know why it is "such a big deal" when a politician or a Hollywood entertainer gets accused of something.  Again, not talking about consensual affairs here - talking about non-consensual sexual actions, and it's a big deal because doing something to someone who didn't invite it and didn't want it is wrong.  

    It's not about expecting politicians to be angels - we all get that politicians are somewhat human, too - but I don't think it's too much to expect politicians - or anyone - to respect others right not to be treated like property to be used or abused at will.

    I think if the GOP wants to continue to embrace Roy Moore or Donald Trump, they should just make it clear they don't care what they did or how disgusting their agenda is, they should just admit the only thing that matters to them is winning, at any cost and no matter what the collateral damage to others.

    Is Paul Ryan any less amoral than Roy Moore just because, as far as we know, he doesn't harass his staff?  No - because anyone who, after pushing huge tax cuts for the wealthy, has the balls to use the deficits it will create as an excuse to undermine and cut social safety net programs is every bit as despicable.

    At some point, they aren't going to be able to run from that, and we can only hope that enough people will wake up and figure that out.


    Anne: "Is Paul Ryan any less amoral than Roy Moore just because, as far as we know, he doesn't harass his staff?"

    ... he assigned the literary works of Ayn Rand as required reading for both interns and staff. If that doesn't qualify as sadistic and inhumane behavior, then I don't know what does.



    You are missing the fact (none / 0) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:08:36 PM EST
    That Franken had a choice in this too.

    He really didn't. (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:41:37 PM EST
    He could have stuck around for the committee (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:53:47 PM EST
    It's been done before against the wishes of peers.

    And they probably would have given him (none / 0) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:55:02 PM EST
    A pass too. He chose to not go that route

    ... and let the Ethics Committee do its job. Deep down inside, I can't help but feel that he got punked by some of his accusers after the first one -- who was credible -- went public. I'm admittedly disappointed in both what had initially transpired and in people's reactions and overreactions to it, including Franken's. That said, I respect his decision to depart graciously as he did today, and I wish him all the best. He is still one of my heroes for picking up the banner and carrying forward the late Paul Wellstone's legacy, and will likely always be.

    I understand (none / 0) (#93)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 05:25:56 AM EST
    I'm glad of one thing though, he is not going to be lumped in by the media and considered the first or second assaulting Senator or Congressperson of this bunch of slush fund users we are about to find out about.

    No one of his accusers and the event (none / 0) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 12:55:02 PM EST
    Was when he was a Senator.

    we don't elect them to be moral (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 12:14:41 PM EST
    we elect them to be good legislators and make good policy choices for us, their constituents.

    I  think it's ridiculous he is resigning.


    I most vehemently disagree, Jeralyn. (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:39:51 PM EST
    Jeralyn: "we don't elect them to be moral[.] we elect them to be good legislators and make good policy choices for us, their constituents."

    By that apparently criteria-free standard, Roy Moore is totally acceptable as both a candidate and an elected official, so long as a majority of Alabamians agree with his policy choices.

    Do we really want to live in an amoral universe devoid of ethical baselines and considerations, where "Caveat Emptor" supplants "E Pluribus Unum" as our national motto and expediency regularly prevails over principle? Speaking for myself only, I know that I sure don't!

    Nor do I believe that you'd necessarily enjoy the experience. I think it's foolish to pretend that a libertarian utopia is both somehow attainable and just over the horizon, by which we can assume that public officials will do the right thing by society at large, even if they choose to live their private lives with all the impunity of an alley cat in heat.

    Rather, I'd argue that we don't elect people to be perfect, because: (1) Perfect is always the enemy of the good; and (2) Nobody's perfect, no matter how hard one strives to attain perfection.

    Al Franken is far from perfect, but is otherwise still a fundamentally good and decent man. I would agree it's ridiculous that as Democrats, we should compel him to resign his Senate seat, if only because we haven't first insisted that Donald Trump do likewise and resign the presidency for the same rationale. Unilateral disarmament in the face of a mortal threat is the ultimate in political stupidity.

    I fear we could rue the day we allowed a blatant double standard to prevail with regard to our own candidates and elected officials, particularly when our GOP opponents have long since decided that ethical protocols are an impediment to their full exercise of public power and personal prerogative, and have duly tossed their own moral compasses overboard accordingly.



    Agree. (none / 0) (#15)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:00:07 PM EST
    We need Al Franken and more Al Frankens in Congress.

    No...I elect them to be moral Jeralyn (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:32:07 PM EST
    You misspelled "liar" (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by Yman on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:24:16 PM EST
    Trump is in office because he's a congenital liar whose supporters claim to care about family values, truth and morals/God, but in reality are nothing more than amoral hypocrites.

    Um, it sounds like you are calling them all ... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Erehwon on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:45:40 PM EST



    He no fighter. (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:41:11 PM EST
    He is a user and manipulator. A grade 'A' grifter.

    Not all acts are alike (none / 0) (#17)
    by MKS on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:11:38 PM EST
    Consensual acts with an adult does not equal sexually assaulting a minor.  Or nonconsensual groping.

    As to Franken, the last accusation was that he "groped" a reporter--but it turned out the reporter said he put his arm around her waist and squeezed her waist.  When taking a photo I think.  Not sexual assault.

    So, Franken was pushed out on alleged conduct that was far different than what Trump or Moore are accused of.  But Dems are not happy with any misconduct.  Look what happened to John Edwards.  Totally consensual.  With an adult.  No employee-employer power situation.  And he is now invisible.


    The only reason that lawless assaulter (none / 0) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:36:35 PM EST
    Is still in office is because he's the President with a party majority in both House and Senate.

    Impeaching a President turns out to be pretty difficult too. So I don't anticipate losing him before 2020 unless he drops dead from too many big macs. But the only reason he's around until 2020 is because he's the President.


    Very interesting to read NYT comments. (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 11:42:37 AM EST
    Vast majority:  Franken should not have resigned.  Many male commenters blame Gillibrand and Harris and state they will never vote for either.

    I guess nobody's told them (none / 0) (#6)
    by CST on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 12:09:05 PM EST
    What Bernie has to say yet.

    In all honesty, I don't care. If it wasn't this, there would be something else.  There's a culture war, and no one is winning.


    Or what BERNIE has (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 12:19:06 PM EST
    yet to say.

    We have to allow them their anger (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 01:02:32 PM EST
    This too shall pass

    Cuz we ain't seen nothing yet in House and Senate members and sexual harassment accusations. By 2018 elections they'll understand why he did what he did.


    I wonder how (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:14:50 PM EST
    Many of those "male commenters" would have ever voted for either anyway.

    I will resign from the (none / 0) (#41)
    by KeysDan on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:53:28 PM EST
    US Senate, Al Franken announced.  It is done, Senator Franken took one for the team; now the team has a greater responsibilities than ever to the Democratic party and to the citizens of the country.  Their action needs to be a part of a strategy.

     The first of which is to tamp down the intramural fighting, while keeping up the discussion. Senator Franken, in his gracious resignation speech, said: "all women deserve to be heard and their experiences taken seriously."

     That is the moral imperative that dwarfs the notion of taking the moral high ground against the Republicans.. a height readily exceeded by just standing on crushed pea gravel---spread on the cellar floor.

    The Democrats need to continue to freight the albatross and keep it firmly around the Republicans neck. Republicans are the party of Trump, Roy Moore, and Blake Farenhold.

     Many Republicans just don't care about such matters as a 34-year old dating or abusing children, or a president admitting to sexual assault so long as they continue to hate all those and those things they hate. And, then there is the aiding and abetting by the media...e.g.,Matt Lauer and Charlie Rose to interview the first woman presidential candidate.  Or, letting comments by the likes of Halperin to stand, such as Hillary did not smile enough or she was a "flawed" candidate....

    Democrats have to be more assertive: call them out, strike back.  All should get behind the Impeachment of Trump.

     It may be that the meek shall inherit the earth, but, it is not just that the meekness inheritance tax has not been repealed, but also, that  Trump and the Republicans are taxing the earth to the point that there will soon be nothing left to inherit.

    Amen (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 02:59:02 PM EST
    How the hell do we shame Trump while defending Franken for the very same accusations?

    And btw
    Trumps time in the barrel for pu$$y grabbing is coming


    First, I don't think it's possible to shame (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Anne on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 04:10:49 PM EST
    Trump - the man has no shame, none.  In fact, he gets off on defying societal and moral norms, because he feeds off even the negative attention.  

    But if Trump can't be shamed, I do think there is a way to inspire a feeling of shame in at least some segment of Trump's base, at least to the point where, when it comes to casting a vote, they can't bring themselves to validate him.  Finger-pointing? - No.  We're-better-than-you-are taunting?  No.  A lot of what Dems are for, that Dems want to raise the bar, not lower it.  That people in positions to affect the lives of millions of people need to have better character.

    In fact, I'd like to see more discussion about the morality of the punitive, regressive, painful cuts we know are coming to programs that help support those at the bottom on the income scale - not to mention the changes written into the current - though still not passed - tax bill.  Abuse of power comes in many forms, and this is part of it.

    I see that Trent Franks has just announced that he's resigning - they are starting to drop like flies.


    I love the reason Trent Franks is giving (none / 0) (#78)
    by vml68 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 07:29:29 PM EST
    Whaaat? That's crazy. (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by Anne on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 08:19:24 PM EST
    WaPo had this, which makes more sense:

    Rep. Trent Franks, an Arizona Republican who is among the most conservative members of the House, said he would resign his seat after House officials learned that he had asked two female employees to bear his child as a surrogate.

    Yeah, I figured that was the real reason. (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by vml68 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 10:05:16 PM EST
    I was just really amused how he left the most crucial bit out.

    Straight (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 04:37:46 AM EST
    out of the handmaid's tale are these people.

    this (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 08:02:12 PM EST

    was just shared with me

    SOURCES:  @CNN and @washingtonpost working on exposing 20-30 congressional members 4 sexual harassment. #DC


    also (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 08:07:07 PM EST
    new Q poll says 75% of americans say congress should investigate Trump for sexual harrassment.
    25% say no

    thats a pretty shocking number.

    that means about 10% of his hardcore base is a yes.


    heres a (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 08:12:01 PM EST

    other interesting stuff in that poll

    44. Do you think Congress should investigate the accusations of sexual harassment against President Trump, or not?
                                              AGE IN YRS..............
                         Tot    Men    Wom    18-34  35-49  50-64  65+

    Yes/Investigate      70%    66%    73%    83%    76%    63%    60%
    No                   25     28     22     13     20     32     35
    DK/NA                 5      5      5      4      4      5      6


    HMMM (none / 0) (#82)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 08:13:21 PM EST
    the first numbers came from tv

    appears to be 70?



    Do we think (none / 0) (#48)
    by smott on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:04:08 PM EST
    That shaming Trump (or any of his supporters) is a workable strategy?
    Or even possible?

    There is shaming (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:12:59 PM EST
    Which clearly is pointless and there is motivating women to vote which is absolutely not pointless.

    Democrats (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by FlJoe on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:29:29 PM EST
    playing offense? Color me skeptical. It is now or never though, personally I feel that the fate of our democracy cannot wait until next November. The Republicans are essentially lawless and their moral compass, always suspect, got sucked into the Bermuda Triangle with the election of tRump.

    Hopefully, something (none / 0) (#61)
    by KeysDan on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 03:36:24 PM EST
    has sunken in. Rep. John Lewis will not attend the opening of the Mississippi Civil Rights Museum to be attended by Trump, citing the racially hostile climate Trump has created and his "very fine people on both sides," response at Charlottsville.

    my feelings (none / 0) (#86)
    by linea on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 08:37:38 PM EST
    i know most everyone on this forum will hate on me for expressing my feelings, but these are my feelings.

    in november i posted that i would be happy with either Elizabeth Warren or Al Franken as the 2020 Democratic Party presidential candidate. nobody on this forum high-5'd me. nobody.

    i would be (none / 0) (#88)
    by linea on Fri Nov 03, 2017 at 07:47:24 PM EST
    happy with either Elizabeth Warren of Al Franken.

    call me a STUPID and call me a TROLL but i was absolutt disapointed with senator franken's boorish behavior in that photograph and - i felt betrayed.

    Linea, I mean this seriously and sincerely. If you (5.00 / 9) (#88)
    by vml68 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 10:18:39 PM EST
    are looking for validation (high-5s) for your feelings and/or opinions from strangers on the internet, you need help.
    If you have something to share, share it without the expectation that you are going to get a pat on the back for it.
    If you get pushback on some of your opinions/feelings, argue your point without resorting to tantrums.

    PeterG has had the patience of a saint with you and given you lots of good advice, please listen to him.

    And lastly, for the love of God, please stop with the word definitions. If any of us are unaware of the meaning of a word, we are more than capable of looking it up.


    Linea this is not about (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 05:26:49 PM EST
    you. Don't try to redirect the thread to what people think about you. Stay on topic please.

    I think the resignation... (none / 0) (#104)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 09:05:05 AM EST
    was a political ploy and not a sincere moral inclination calling upon Franken to resign...which means it's just slinging in the mud in a different form, and nothing to really praise Dems for.

    And I'm not even sure if war on pervs is a winning strategy for Dems in 2018 & 2020...America spoke on that in 2016 with Trump's win and Alabama will speak on it again in a few days, and I think Moore will win too.  Might help in a swing district or two, but nothing major.  Americans may be awakening to the issue of sexual harassment and assault, but they also don't like a self-righteous holier than thou schtick.  Time will tell, but this Machiavelli move by Dems could backfire big time.

    There will be so many other flash points (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 01:34:01 PM EST
    by the midterms.

    Agreed... (none / 0) (#115)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 01:43:20 PM EST
    and the pushback to #metoo will probably be what is in vogue by then.

    I mean when The Onion is already mocking it, it's a good sign the media narrative is already turning.  


    It's different in France (none / 0) (#117)
    by thomas rogan on Fri Dec 08, 2017 at 02:34:57 PM EST
    The Socialist darling Emmanuel Macron, president of France, began dating his now-wife when he was 15 and she was his 39 year old high school teacher.  

    I guess you didn't hear (3.67 / 3) (#128)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Dec 10, 2017 at 12:37:29 PM EST
    This isn't France