Tax Bill Will Change Your Life, For Worse

The New York Times:

The tax cut package, for instance, could trigger rules mandating cuts to Medicare, the government health care program for seniors, the Congressional Budget Office warned. Some 13 million people could lose health care via the elimination of a key plank of Obamacare. Insurance premiums are also expected to rise by 10 percent.

“This tax bill is a grand deception,” said Arnold Hiatt, the former chief executive of Stride Rite, which makes children’s shoes. “It hurts the most vulnerable, and hurts health care and education, which are essential for a healthy economy.”

It is likely to pass the Senate, even John McCain now will vote in favor of it. The Joint Committee on Taxation says the bill "will add $1 trillion to deficit over a decade, even with economic growth."

Donald Trump Sells Another False Bill of Goods.

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    The bill needs to be (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 04:00:20 PM EST
    considered in two parts: tax cuts for big corporations and the very wealthy, and even there, with emphasis on passive income; and tax increases for the remainder--the poor and the middle-class.

     Wealth distribution takes the bizarre and inverted step of shifting wealth from poor to rich.

     And, the overarching factor is its social re-engineering of the country.  The economic inequality will be dramatically increased by these elements and by the elimination of inheritance taxes, rendering threadbare the veil of meritocracy. Sort of, the Eric Trump Wealth Protection Act.

     Of course, elimination of the ACA mandate leaves 13 million un-insured and those who may still be insured enjoy higher premiums.

    The social contract will be forfeited: Medicare will take an immediate hit, and, with time, social security, Medicaid, and, once more, Medicare will be on the chopping block owing to new-found concerns for the immense deficit and the debt.

     Moreover, the dream of Grover Norquist to reduce the size of government through starvation to the size where it can be dragged into the bathtub and be drowned is an effect of the plan.

    The restoration of Democratic and democratic governments may permit a repeal and replace of many of the most onerous provisions, even before they legislatively ripen.

     However, an immediate and unique endangerment to the country looms with a Trump emboldened by a "win" and a new sense of vindictiveness and irrationality. A "win" to be marketed to his base with lies and raw meat (e.g., abortion, judges, family values).  A win, intensified, by all the Republicans being on board (e.g., A US Senator,  Orrin Hatch, says Trump is the best president he ever "worked under" )and  his being buoyed by Roy Moore's likely election owing to his greatness.

       No one knows with certainty where this all goes: it, seems to me, to be a 1933 moment.  And, Mueller is increasingly vulnerable to an unstable Trump's action.

    Treasury Watchdog Probes Mnuchin's Analysis (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 05:26:22 PM EST
    with the Senate preparing to vote on the tax overhaul this week, Mnuchin has yet to deliver the analysis.

    "Either the Treasury Department has used extensive taxpayer funds to conduct economic analyses that it refuses to release because those analyses would contradict the Treasury Secretary's claims, or Secretary Mnuchin has grossly misled the public about the extent of the Treasury Department's analysis," Warren, a Democratic Senator from Massachusetts, wrote in the letter.


    interesting aspect (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 06:14:11 PM EST
    of the "tax bill"

    'Unborn children' qualify as college savers in GOP tax plan

    im certain this is a completely innocent attempt to expand college education.

    Off topic - Open thread is full - but good news (5.00 / 7) (#23)
    by Peter G on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 09:06:21 PM EST
    jury acquits in SF murder case ignorantly exploited by certain high ranking persons to justify demonizing undocumented U.S. residents. Post-verdict statement by public defender is awesome:
    There are a number of people who have commented on this case in the past few years: the Attorney General of the United States, the President and the Vice President of the United States, let me just remind them that ...  they may themselves soon avail themselves of the presumption of innocence and beyond a reasonable doubt standard. ... I would ask them to reflect on that before they comment or disparage the result in this case.

    And sure enough, right on cue (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Peter G on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 10:00:12 PM EST
    To have expected otherwise would (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 07:02:00 AM EST
    have been foolish.

    I continue to marvel at how much free time the president has, and what he chooses to "share" with his followers.

    Not sure we've seen anyone so good at fiddling while Rome burns since Nero himself (although I guess there's some question whether Nero actually did)...SAD!

    With a growing chorus of voices speculating on Trump's mental state, today can only bring more grist for that particular mill.


    OT Breaking news (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by FlJoe on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 08:08:35 AM EST
    CNN reporting Flynn charged with Lying to FBI, no link yet. other sites indicate that he has already pleaded guilty.

    I'm guessing this is what he (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 08:26:54 AM EST
    agreed to plead guilty to, in exchange for cooperating on something much bigger.

    I just think it's a stretch to believe this would be the only thing Mueller would have enough evidence to charge him with.

    Meanwhile, Trump is apparently telling people a government shutdown would be good for him.  Because, it's all about him, right?


    A guilty plea to one count at the first (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 09:03:11 AM EST
    court appearance is only consistent with a plea agreement, and typically only with a cooperation agreement. "Lying to the FBI," that is, making a knowingly false statement to a federal agency that is material to their jurisdiction, is a felony that carries a five-year maximum sentence.

    I think the fact that (none / 0) (#28)
    by CST on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 08:34:07 AM EST
    His lawyers cut off all ties to Trump's lawyers a few days ago suggests that yes - he's cooperating.

    Also, this is the exact same charge that the other "coffee boy" who is presumed to be cooperating pled guilty to.


    Damn (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 09:50:42 AM EST
    Go Christmas shopping for a couple of hours and the bottom drops out.

    Flynn (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 10:21:46 AM EST
    Just released a statement. He is officially cooperating with the special counsel

    And (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 10:26:01 AM EST
    No movement on the tax bill.  This could effect that too.

    uh oh (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 10:49:05 AM EST
    Mitch: i have the votes

    Here's a question: (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 11:01:07 AM EST
    It is looking more and more to me like things are getting ready to blow up at the top of the administration.  The Flynn indictment is very bad news for Trump, and there has to be more than one Republican member of the House/Senate who's wondering whether they can afford to be seen passing such major legislation when there are growing concerns about the legitimacy of the president.

    Oh, wait - these are Republicans, so they don't give a hoot whether he's legitimate or not, as long as he still holds the office, they will consider his signature on any legislation as perfectly okay.

    I guess I don't have a question after all.


    They will use it (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 11:02:05 AM EST
    As cover.  And live to deeply regret it.

    OH MY GOD OH MY GOD (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 10:58:02 AM EST

    "But justice roll down like water and righteousness like an ever-flowing g stream"

    Amos 5:24

    We need a thread

    I just emailed J


    "Let justice ...," of course (none / 0) (#37)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 04:47:05 PM EST
    not "But justice ...."

    I'm so angry (none / 0) (#2)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 04:25:17 PM EST
    at all those that couldn't see thru the bull$h!t last year.  So many people potentially hurt due to individual "progressives" hubris and belief in hyperbole.

    We are still doing it too.

    What's gonna suck is 2018 & 2020 when the GOP runs on "Dems gonna raise your taxes" and the MSM and gullible Americans eat it up.

    I've read (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 04:47:10 PM EST
    They have a different plan.  Or at least a more complicated one.  To use the financial shortfall to go after the safety net.

    If they win this they are gonna feel like supermen a go after what they always wanted.  Medicare and social security.

    There is already talk of "welfare reform".

    Our only hope is the 2018 elections.

    So if we can't storm "doing it" we are truly and totally fu@ked.


    Not (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by FlJoe on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 05:43:25 PM EST
    too complicated, little Marco gets it
    In a videotaped interview with two Politico reporters Wednesday, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) said the quiet parts out loud. Asked by interviewers Anna Palmer and Jake Sherman how to address the federal deficit, he replied: "We have to do two things. We have to generate economic growth which generates revenue, while reducing spending. That will mean instituting structural changes to Social Security and Medicare for the future."
     They say the quiet parts loud now, that's the amazing,or maybe frightening part, they really do not seem to fear anything anymore. Maybe they are correct. They hold all the reins of power and they will not hesitate to use that power in a malevolent way. They  blatantly lie, cheat and collude with despots and bigots and never seem to pay a price.

    Perhaps the GOP will eventually throw tRump under the bus but they will never give up power with out a fight. Did I mention how much they lie and cheat? They would willing to destroy this country as we know it to win that fight.


    I wish (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 05:51:29 PM EST
    I did not agree with you.  

    obviously (none / 0) (#40)
    by linea on Sat Dec 02, 2017 at 11:45:19 PM EST
    i support social security and medicare as programs for the elderly and oppose republican plans to privative social security and to turn medicare into a voucer program for purchasing insurance on the private market.

    donald trump as a candidate repeatedly stated that these programs would not be touched but `saving' or `preserving' these programs by destroying them is part of the official position of the republican party as stated in their 2016 Platform.

    We reject the old maxim that Social Security is the "Third Rail" of American politics, deadly for anyone who would change it.

    Preserving Medicare and Medicaid: Guarantee to every enrollee an income-adjusted contribution toward a plan of their choice, with catastrophic protection.

    Grrrrr (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 04:48:07 PM EST
    Can't STOP doing it.

    I noticed in the new site (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 04:49:09 PM EST
    You can correct comments.

    May it happen soon.


    I've seen same (none / 0) (#8)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 05:02:04 PM EST
    and yes our only hope is the 2018 elections.

    Predict a massive (none / 0) (#3)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 04:26:13 PM EST
    recession coming in the middle of 2018 if this bill passes. Certainly it is going to look like it passes right now.

    All financial predictions (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 04:54:55 PM EST
    Are exactly the opposite.  At least the short term.  Credible sources are predicting 4% growth next year.  None of the worst of this happens next year.  This won't do much to the economy next year.   They will take credit for the upturn.

    And I predict we are going to have to do some serious poking and prodding to keep the idiot democrat leadership from tripping over their own stupid feet and blowing the chances and once again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.


    OTOH (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 05:28:20 PM EST
    A 4 percent growth rate will set off a dangerous boom and bust cycle. If growth does hit that level, it could create a recession by 2018 or later.

    I think their hope/plan is to get through 2018 and use the bust for the above mentioned purpose.


    That said (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 05:31:20 PM EST
    Some are predicting 2.5 - 3.

    What saying?  If you placed every economist in the world end to end you still would not reach a conclusion.


    Tax cuts for the wealthy tend to create bubbles. (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Jack E Lope on Tue Dec 05, 2017 at 10:30:21 AM EST
    The US stock market is already priced in anticipation of tax cuts for wealthy individuals and cash-heavy corporations, so it may be a bit late to take full advantage of the coming bubble.  Plus, getting out before the bubble bursts can be difficult.

    I had heard some talk from Republican pols, but I have not seen an analysis of how this tax bill might induce corporations to bring money to the US, after being parked in low-tax countries over the years.   Any such money has to go somewhere, and many corporations already have excess cash - so they do NOT have job-creating GDP-growing expansion plans just waiting to be funded.  Asset prices would be driven up without any increase to the underlying value (though some of this may already be priced into the stock market).

    But I fear that the GOP will be able to keep the bubble alive far enough into 2018 to help their election prospects.


    Yup, they have disengaged the stock market (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 07, 2017 at 09:18:08 AM EST
    From the health of main street AGAIN. Now when main street suffers, the little people will be told action can't be taken because it will damage the markets. That's what they did last Republican administration, and then we crashed and burned in 2008.

    They are stuck (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 07:06:36 PM EST
    It seems the score from the joint committee on taxation saying it would increase the deficit by a trillion bucks was a "big surprise" for some senators.

    Now, obviously this is BS.  Certainly was not a surprise to anyone but it is I think a hopeful sign that there are some, maybe even enough - it only takes 3, who were waiting for this to have a reason to vote against it.

    It will not pass tonight.  They will try again tomorrow.  It's not over.  

    I'm sick (none / 0) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 07:30:14 PM EST
    of them. They continually try to sneak things through but we are watching. They don't even seem to know what they are voting on. It's going to be a repeat of the healthcare debacle where they are going to keep going to back attempting to pass something anything.

    But this is it for them. It will be their sole accomplishment if it passes.


    I have always said (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 07:33:00 PM EST
    They would fail. I would really love to be right.

    But I would not bet my house.


    I think they are right (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 07:46:42 PM EST
    About one thing.  If they fail they are completely screwed.  It has become widely known that if they fail the big donors are going to cut them off.

    Ponder for  a moment what that would mean going into an election year where they are already completely screwed.  Democrats would take the house.  They would take the Senate.  It would literally be the end of what has been known as the republican party.  Something would survive but it would be something else.  Or something different.

    Which is why even the sane ones are falling in line.  

    And why it's actually amazing they are still struggling


    Yes (none / 0) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 08:22:16 PM EST
    I have been suprised at the struggling since this is all for their donors. However donors do not elect them and my senator David Perdue is up for relection in 2020 which is going to probably be a very bad year to be a Republican. Maybe he thinks he can get the donors back on board before 2020 since 2018 is not going to matter to him. I always remind myself that there are a lot more of us than them.

    What do you think about your senator going to the CIA? It sounds like a match made in h*ll. What do you guys do about replacing senators? Cotton must realize his political career is over to do something like that.


    Well, in order (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 08:34:14 PM EST
    I would rather he be at the CIA than in the Senate.  He is very smart and might be pretty good.  IMO way better than Pompeo.  I assume a replacement would be appointed by the republican gov.  And I don't agree.  I think he sees it as a career move.  Cotton is very very ambitious.  There is not really a good history of senators being elected president.  Which he is absolutely planning for.  

    I actually way more worried abouts Pam Gellers buddy Pompeo being SOS.


    Yeah, that worries (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 08:55:31 PM EST
    me too. That guy is freaking idiot.

    I just figured being in the senate would not have the Trump association that being head of the CIA would. Trump is doing a great job of destroying the careers and futures of a lot of Republicans. He's way better than George W. Bush ever was at it.


    As I said (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 30, 2017 at 09:01:48 PM EST
    Cotton is no dummy

    Better (none / 0) (#39)
    by FlJoe on Fri Dec 01, 2017 at 05:28:56 PM EST
    than mildly nauseous, I suppose.