Monday Open Thread

"If I hadn't blown the whole thing years ago,
I might not be alone
Tomorrow we can drive around this town
Let the cops chase us around"

Donald Trump can't read. The charges against his aides extend into 2016 and 2017 -- they were not just "years ago."

Love this song by the Gin Blossoms.

I'm on my third keyboard this week, the lag time whenever I type is absurd. I have no idea what's wrong with my Dell desktop computer but it's seriously affecting my blogging. I'm off to the jail anyway, so it won't matter this afternoon.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Manafort, Gates, Papadopoulos Charges | Republicans Introduce Their Tax Cut Plan >
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  • Woot woot (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 11:51:46 AM EST
    A federal judge blocks enforcement of part of the transgender military ban.

    The Oakland A's catcher, Bruce Maxwell, (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 02:01:22 PM EST
    was arrested Saturday for pointing a gun at his pizza delivery girl.

    Though I was not aware until today, he was the only MLB player to kneel during the National Anthem.

    As it turns out he was in the news last week also, because, he claimed, a waiter at a restaurant identified himself as a Trump supporter and denied Maxwell service because Maxwell had kneeled.

    The (Alabama) restaurant claimed no one even knew who Maxwell was and said that they had denied one of Maxwell's guests a beer because the guy's ID was expired.

    Did the article say (none / 0) (#35)
    by NYShooter on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 02:11:07 PM EST
    whether there was anyone else in the apartment besides Maxwell. (Like witnesses?)

    Nopes. (none / 0) (#39)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 02:29:20 PM EST
    To be fair, it turns out the restaurant incident took place in the town Maxwell attended HS in, so maybe the waiter did know who he was. Also, it turns out, a city councilman was eating with Maxwell and supports his story. To be fair aqain, the councilman went to HS with Maxwell.

    Not sure what to make of all this (none / 0) (#44)
    by McBain on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 03:14:13 PM EST
    I'm a big A's fan and not happy to see Maxwell get into trouble.  Need more info.... why would he point a gun a pizza delivery person?

    The restaurant incident was very strange as well. Maybe they're somehow connected, maybe not.    


    He reportedly smelled strongly of alcohol. (none / 0) (#45)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 03:19:17 PM EST
    Also I read that he had claimed he had cancelled his order. Also reported that he at first admitted, and then later denied, un-holstering his gun. Lotsa articles on the google about about the incident...

    I've been thinking more about this (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by CST on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 08:18:56 AM EST
    Manafort thing.

    Trump has insisted from the beginning that Mueller stick to investigating Russia and should in no way shape or form expand his investigation to his financial dealings.

    Well, now Mueller has clearly expanded the investigation to Manafort's financial dealings.  I wonder if that's not a warning shot in a way that financial crimes are on the table.

    What is with right wing (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 02:51:23 PM EST
    Southerners and cowboy culture?  Roy Moore of Alabama is the most recent iteration.

    Cowboys are not Southern.  They are really Mexican--"Vaqueros."   The Western saddle and cowboy hats are Mexican in origin.  And adopted by Westerners.

    But Alabama?   No, they rode English style saddles and big straw boaters....They had slaves and plantations.  They were not cowboys with six shooters.

    It is ironic that these right wingers are unintentionally aping the Mexican culture they so despise.    

    Yes, thank you (none / 0) (#72)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 02:58:16 PM EST
    And remember Kelly's All Hat No Cattle comment he supposedly made through SHS, and she brought up that it was a Southern saying? It's not a Southern saying, try West nimrod. And John Kelly is from Boston...no hat no cattle.

    Maybe we can call it the Lee Greenwood affect?


    WH wants credit for Papadopoulos arrest... (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 03:20:35 PM EST
    I kid you not.

    The White House on Tuesday sought to take credit for the arrest of a former Trump campaign aide who had repeated contacts with Russia-linked officials offering "dirt" on Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton -- marking the latest damage control move as the Russia probe intensifies.

    President Donald Trump and other White House allies had so far sought to downplay the role of George Papadopoulos, a campaign foreign policy adviser, whose plea deal was made public by special counsel Robert Mueller on Monday, the same day two top Trump campaign officials were indicted on charges unrelated to the campaign.

    Trump derided him Tuesday morning as a "liar" while former campaign aide Michael Caputo dismissed him as "the coffee boy."

    Press secretary Sarah Sanders went further Tuesday afternoon, claiming the White House and the campaign deserved credit for helping Mueller's team build its case that Papadopoulos had lied to the FBI about his contacts.

    "Papadopoulos is an example of actually somebody doing the wrong thing while the president's campaign did the right thing," Sanders said. "All of his emails were voluntarily provided to the special counsel by the campaign, and that is what led to the process and the place that we're in right now is the campaign fully cooperating and helping with that. What Papadopoulos did was lie and that's on him and not on the campaign and we can't speak to that."

    Well, except for the fact that the e-mails were turned over in August, a month after he'd been arrested.

    So, if all else fails, go with the "up is down, black is white" approach.

    The only thing I can think is that these lies aren't for us, they are for the loons desperate to keep believing.

    I think this (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by KeysDan on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 05:39:34 PM EST
    line of reaction may be a good thing. Trump may feel that he can out distance the sheriff with his and his allies oh so clever lies and attacks, thereby, not having to take the risk of firing Mueller.

      The longer he stays with throwing everything at the wall hoping for something to stick the better.  If anything Trump and his gang have demonstrated is not only their ineptness and incompetence but also, his blissful ignorance of same.

     He is no match for Mueller whose special counsel strategy is, apparently, like a fireworks display--starting with cherry bombs and sparklers and ending with full sky bursts of light and sound.  This will not end well for Trump so long as he thinks he can beat Mueller....then,  oohs-and-aahs to behold.


    yes (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 04:39:03 PM EST
    actually everything he says is about keeping his base together and enriching himself. It's really that simple. He could care less about anything outside of that.

    Happy Halloween fellow spooks.. (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by desertswine on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 08:48:46 PM EST
    the veil is thin tonight.

    CBS New broke into programming (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 11:29:04 AM EST
    with a special report. Remarks from Dumbo at 1600 PA.

    His capacity for untethered stupidity is breathtaking. He just pulled stuff out of a$$ about the perpetrator and US immigration policy and the US justice system.

    This terrorist attack (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by KeysDan on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 11:43:00 AM EST
    took place on Trump's watch.  The truck terrorist,Sayfullo Saipov, is from the former Soviet republic of Uzbekistan...an authoritative country not on Muslim Ban 1.0, 2.0 or 3.0.  

    He's rant repeating himself (none / 0) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 11:36:19 AM EST
    Merit based, chain, no chain, merit based, no chain, terrible, horrible, diversity. He's very choppy, jerky, volatile today. He seems to be sleep deprived and enraged, but I don't know him. That's just my impression.

    i agree (none / 0) (#135)
    by linea on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 08:06:22 PM EST
    and immigration is already almost exclusively merit or education based.

    Merit based, chain, no chain, merit based, no chain, terrible, horrible, diversity.

    a population of 323-million and this program gets allocated a measily 50-55k `winners' in a lottery with 9-million applicants (14-million if you include wives and children). that's ridiculous.

    this program is the only way to get to america for people who aren't fashion-models, alt-right pundits, footballers, or highly educated techies (or buy-in by investing in a Trump Jr project). i propose we rename it the Horatio Alger - Freedom Lottery and bump-up the number from 55k to 323k.

    just my opinion.


    Has he spoken to the mayor or the (none / 0) (#98)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 11:41:05 AM EST
    governor yet?  Reports I've seen say he hasn't.

    Ugh.  I can't stand this guy.


    Now he wants to put this guy in Gitmo (none / 0) (#100)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 12:22:11 PM EST

    Just great

    Even saying that is inciteful in 20 different ways. It's yuuuuge


    From John McCain (none / 0) (#109)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 01:08:59 PM EST
    "Take him to Guantanamo," McCain told reporters on Capitol Hill. "He's a terrorist, he should be kept there. There's no Miranda rights for somebody who kills Americans."

    First of all, he only killed 2 Americans (5 were Argentinians, maybe he should be handed over to Argentina).

    But how does existing law not apply here? What about the hundreds (or is thousands) of Americans killed by guns in this country. There are "Americans" being killed in these instances. Do those perpetrators not deserve Miranda rights? Do those perpetrators belong at Gitmo.

    I don't understand this rush to deride the legal system (which I admit is completely screwed up) just because the guy was motivated by ISIS. How is he different than the Vegas shooter. Or the nazi who ran down people in Charlottesville. Never heard anyone suggesting that guy be sent to Gitmo. Trump never called him an "animal".

    I am sick of this hypocrisy by these reprobates. We have rule of law, until it doesn't fit their purposes or agenda. Now all of sudden we need "special" laws, "special" treatment of this guy.

    What he did was horrible. But I'm pretty sure there are plenty of laws on the books in New York (or even existing federal statutes) that mete out plenty good punishment for running people down with a truck. Even after he is read his Miranda rights.


    As if "Miranda rights" were some kind of (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by Peter G on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 05:01:43 PM EST
    get-out-of-jail-free card. So ignorant. And irrelevant; the guy is in NYC police custody (in the hospital) and will have the full array, as he should, of constitutional rights applicable to the accused in any American court. This is not in doubt. Nor is the outcome, given the circumstances of his arrest.

    Do you tweet? I'm (none / 0) (#143)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 01:59:42 AM EST
    interested in "following" you.

    Thanks, but no (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by Peter G on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 07:31:00 AM EST
    Don't subscribe. Don't care for the format. And big threat to
    productivity. Never. This is my platform, pretty much exclusively.

    I'd like twitter a lot more (none / 0) (#166)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 12:22:56 PM EST
    if people tweeted things like:

    "When in Kyoto, I long for Kyoto
     when I hear the cuckoo's call"



    Might McCain's comments have to do (none / 0) (#155)
    by McBain on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 10:16:45 AM EST
    with the desire to be able to interrogate a suspected terrorist without the presence of a lawyer?  I'm not necessarily in favor of that but it's what I took his quote to mean.  

    Not necessarily.? (none / 0) (#158)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 10:47:43 AM EST
    What true conviction to constitutional rights. What the heck. Why not do this to criminal suspects? Just take them all down to Gitmo. We don't need no stinking lawyers.

    It's an ongoing debate Chuck (none / 0) (#165)
    by McBain on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 11:57:33 AM EST
    Should the rules be different if national security is at risk?  The problem I have is who makes that decision and how often will that power be abused?

    Speaking of national security (none / 0) (#167)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 12:25:54 PM EST
    we should maybe interrogate gun dealers and gun shop owners a little more about the people they sell to.

    how often will that power be abused? (none / 0) (#168)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 12:28:16 PM EST
    My guess. 100% of the time.

    Maybe, but that is not at issue in this case (none / 0) (#170)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 01:04:07 PM EST
    This guy is not a threat to national security.

    The truck terrorist, (none / 0) (#161)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 11:33:59 AM EST
    Sayfullo Saipov, an immigrant from Uzbekistan, had a Russian interpreter available to him in federal court; he answered the judge in English. Saipov waived his Miranda rights in his hospital room and confessed.

    It's like somehow it's a worse kind of (none / 0) (#114)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 01:46:23 PM EST
    dead if it's at the hands of a terrorist than if it's at the hands of some home-grown - and usually white - psychotic.

    Why doesn't McCain - or Trump - salivate like this over other mass killings?  And make no mistake, there's a whole lotta salivatin' goin' on here.

    It's revolting.


    I saw a headline earlier (none / 0) (#104)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 12:55:57 PM EST
    that Gov. Cuomo made a statement somewhere along the way that his tweets weren't helping anything.

    Papadop didn't only attend one meeting (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 12:38:35 PM EST
    He attended others

    March 2016 Papadop proposed a Putin meeting at one of those meetings. Trump didn't dismiss it. Jeff Sessions was there, and said they should not move forward with that.

    So Jeff Sessions lied during his confirmation hearing.

    Oh, these people. (none / 0) (#105)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 12:56:32 PM EST
    There isn't a good one among them.  Corrupt, compromised, conflicted.  And probably, criminal.

    And Sessions?  Pretty sure he was willing to perjure himself to protect Trump - and Trump will thank him by being the first in line to trash him.

    What worries me more than anything is that the desperation tactics to try and change the subject aren't working too well, but they don't show any signs they are going to stop trying to find something, anything, to change the conversation.  

    Even if it means a war like we haven't seen before.

    What else do they have?  Nothing.

    I'm sick.


    Yes (none / 0) (#106)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 01:00:36 PM EST
    Now Graham is going on Fox to argue we need to send the NYC driver to Gitmo as an enemy combatant. They want to fight about what the Constitution says. They want to talk about anything else.

    You know it's bad when Trump blames Jared. (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 02:19:27 PM EST
    "You Can't Go Any Lower": Inside the West Wing, Trump Is Apoplectic as Allies Fear Impeachment

    According to two sources, Trump has complained to advisers about his legal team for letting the Mueller probe progress this far. Speaking to Steve Bannon on Tuesday, Trump blamed Jared Kushner for his role in decisions, specifically the firings of Mike Flynn and James Comey, that led to Mueller's appointment, according to a source briefed on the call. When Roger Stone recently told Trump that Kushner was giving him bad political advice, Trump agreed, according to someone familiar with the conversation. "Jared is the worst political adviser in the White House in modern history," Nunberg said. "I'm only saying publicly what everyone says behind the scenes at Fox News, in conservative media, and the Senate and Congress." (The White House didn't respond to a request for comment by deadline.)

    One idea on the table:

    Stone wants Trump to call for a special prosecutor to investigate Hillary Clinton's role in approving the controversial Uranium One deal that's been a locus of rightwing hysteria (the transaction involved a Russian state-owned energy firm acquiring a Canadian mining company that controlled 20 percent of the uranium in the United States). It's a bit of a bank shot, but as Stone described it, a special prosecutor looking into Uranium One would also have to investigate the F.B.I.'s role in approving the deal, thereby making Mueller--who was in charge of the bureau at the time--a target. Stone's choice for a special prosecutor: Rudy Giuliani law colleague Marc Mukasey or Fox News pundit Andrew Napolitano. "You would immediately have to inform Mueller, Comey, and [Deputy Attorney General] Rod Rosenstein that they are under federal investigation," Stone said. "Trump can't afford to fire Mueller politically. But this pushes him aside."

    These people are as loony as they are corrupt.


    This Gitmo blather... (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 02:31:36 PM EST
    almost makes me as mad as some arsehat mowing down pedestrians.  In some ways, it makes me more angry because I expect better of people sworn to uphold the US Constitution.

    The perpetrator should be tried in a US Court of Law, and after a vigorous defense if he is convicted, sentenced to humane detention in a US prison.  Anything less is the very barbarism we claim to be above.  

    But I guess such red meat tossing is par for the course in the current political hell climate.


    Heh, K-dog, you are an idealist (none / 0) (#121)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 03:27:35 PM EST
    I am not so sure how many people really support the Constitution....

    Too true... (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 06:17:23 PM EST
    Alotta people seem to think the Bill of Rights is an a la carte menu. And even the amendments they support change with the circumstances.

    Rights for me but not for thee sh+t. Sad.


    Lickspittle Graham... (none / 0) (#107)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 01:03:18 PM EST
    same as he ever was.  

    All (none / 0) (#108)
    by KeysDan on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 01:08:10 PM EST
    So the plan (none / 0) (#130)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 06:13:50 PM EST
    Is to throw Jared to the pitchforks? Rumor is the Trump Administration fears impeachment?

    Or is there a direct link from Papadopoulos to Kushner?

    Or both?


    Such stupid fools. (none / 0) (#132)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 06:58:28 PM EST
    If those people were so concerned about impeachment they should have never worked for Trump in the first place. They should have never even nominated Trump for GOP candidate.

    Jared I think stands alone from Papadopoulos because he seemed to have a direct link to Cambridge Analytics. He also met with the Russians with Don Jr. and Manafort didn't he?


    I thought the next (none / 0) (#110)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 01:21:36 PM EST
    domino might be Flynn but it might just be Wilbur Ross and Jeff Sessions.

    Have You All Heard This Interview? (none / 0) (#111)
    by RickyJim on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 01:28:41 PM EST
    Anybody know the date?  "He is an oil and energy consultant - excellent guy." Sounds like back then he was more than a coffee boy volunteer.

    Hillary Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by KeysDan on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 12:39:54 PM EST
    will be a guest on Trevor Noah's late night show, tonight (Wednesday) 11pm Eastern.  Look forward to hearing from Mrs. Clinton as always.  And, Trevor Noah is among my favorite late night comics...he is funny, smart, and a good interviewer; as a fan of Hillary, it should be fun and informative.  

    Anyone looking for a new job? (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by CST on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 02:45:45 PM EST
    Apparently there is a booming exorcist market in France.

    By far the best part of the article:

    "There's a lot of fraud. Many people pretend to be real exorcists and ask for very large sums of money for their services. But the church never charges for this service."

    I love these types of stories.

    i might consider (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 04:19:14 PM EST
    coming out of retirement for this.

    on a somewhat related subject (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 05:26:23 PM EST
    ive been watching a silent movie i recorded off TCM called HAXAN: WITCHCRAFT THROUGH THE AGES.

    It is not at all what i expected.  that said not sure what i expected.  but it is intense and harrowing.  hard to watch.  even for me and you know i have a very high threshold for such things.

    its partly the casting.  they use people that look real.  and the scenes of horror are not quick cut like today.  which lends an air of reality.

    if you have any interest in the subject,  that is the persecution of womwn by the church for witchcraft, I recommend it.    but be warned its a tough slog.

    i learned a something new which is the likely source of the expression of "kissing someones azz" as a for of fealty.


    wiki (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 05:35:33 PM EST
    Häxan (Danish title: Heksen; English title: The Witches or Witchcraft Through the Ages) is a 1922 Swedish-Danish documentary-style silent horror film written and directed by Benjamin Christensen. Based partly on Christensen's study of the Malleus Maleficarum, a 15th-century German guide for inquisitors, Häxan is a study of how superstition and the misunderstanding of diseases and mental illness could lead to the hysteria of the witch-hunts.[3] The film was made as a documentary but contains dramatised sequences that are comparable to horror films.

    With Christensen's meticulous recreation of medieval scenes and the lengthy production period, the film was the most expensive Scandinavian silent film ever made, costing nearly two million Swedish kronor.[3] Although it won acclaim in Denmark and Sweden,[citation needed] the film was banned in the United States and heavily censored in other countries for what were considered at that time graphic depictions of torture, nudity, and sexual perversion.[4] It is now considered to be Christensen's finest work



    Why Did Saipov Do It? (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by RickyJim on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 09:14:51 PM EST
    On Mr. Saipov's cellphone, F.B.I. agents found 90 videos, including of ISIS fighters killing prisoners and of instructions for making an explosive device, according to the criminal complaint. They also found 3,800 images, among them some of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS. The complaint said Mr. Saipov reported being inspired in particular by a video in which Mr. al-Baghdadi "questioned what Muslims in the United States and elsewhere were doing to respond to the killing of Muslims in Iraq."

    i dont understand (none / 0) (#141)
    by linea on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 12:12:37 AM EST
    is your question rhetorical?

    No. (none / 0) (#151)
    by RickyJim on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 09:41:19 AM EST
    The answer to my question is that he wanted to avenge the killing of Muslims in Iraq.  Of course, that begs the question of why he was OK with ISIS killing Muslims.  I don't expect that he could give a coherent answer to the latter.

    Who says gun control does not work? (5.00 / 4) (#137)
    by Peter G on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 10:12:09 PM EST
    Saipov had a paintball gun and a starter pistol. I have to assume he tried to buy a real gun (or several) but could not get approved in New Jersey or New York. Have not seen any news coverage on this yet.

    i researched this earlier today (none / 0) (#139)
    by linea on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 10:33:36 PM EST
    per federal law LPRs can purchase and carry firearms but are also subject to state restrictions. new jersey requires that one apply for a `purchaser identification card' with the police prior to purchasing a firearm.

    saipov most certainly would have qualified for this state licence. once he had that state card, all he needed to do was go to a gun dealer and complete the federal form - check the correct box, state that he had 90 days residence in that state, and write the id number from his LPR card on the form. i assume he either didn't want to call atttention to himself or maybe this wasn't as premeditated as reported.


    Home Depot rental truck was quite effective. (none / 0) (#145)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 02:07:01 AM EST
    Wonderful concert (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 02:05:41 AM EST
    tonight at Walt Disney Hall in Los Angeles.  Mariinsky Orchestra/Gergiev conducting.  Program: Shostakovitch/Prokofiev/Scriabin. Marvelous.  Conductor is close to Putin.  I was in the front row. Oh, the questions I wanted to ask!

    Rockin' with the Ruskies... (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 09:01:55 AM EST
    So glad you enjoyed, just hope you don't end up on Mueller's list! Or worse, Putin's! ;)

    Three people shot dead (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 09:05:03 AM EST
    in a Walmart in Thornton, CO. No one in custody. Trump and the GOP will be calling for the death penalty, transfer to Gitmo and suspension of constitutional rights for this perpetrator in one, two, three ....... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

    Yeah. Nothing. Crickets. Three dead by handgun is obviously not terrorism. More American dead in CO than NY. So sad. I'm sure they'll be offering thoughts and prayers though.

    I heard the lead suspect... (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 09:50:33 AM EST
    in the shooting got into the country under the birth lottery residency program too...sounds nice but it's bad, very bad...we should abandon that program post haste!

    Agreed! (5.00 / 3) (#153)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 09:54:14 AM EST
    We must stop murderers from being born in the USA! It makes us a laughingstock. So sad.

    Update (none / 0) (#150)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 09:39:14 AM EST
    A Scott Ostrem, 47, has reportedly been taken into custody. Still no word from tRump on a transfer to Gitmo. Or suggestions of punishment.

    Break time.... (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by desertswine on Fri Nov 03, 2017 at 12:06:32 AM EST
    30 days aboard a large cargo ship produced this fascinating video.

    Ray Donavon (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 11:56:15 AM EST
    an odd season but a really good finale.

    had to check to make sure season 6 is already a go.

    Agree it was a strong ending to (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 12:10:40 PM EST
    a season that had some major weak areas.

    Felt like there were all kinds of suicide clues, but I decided that as much as it looked like it was going to be Ray following Abby into the great hereafter, it was really, in the end, about Ray making some amends and "killing off" his old life and "letting go" of Abby. Wouldn't surprise me if we find out that his leap into the river was the same kind of vision as the ones he'd been having all season about Abby.  And that when the next season starts, we will find out he never jumped at all.

    And that was before I found out that Ray is moving his base of operations from Hollywood to NYC.  Don't know what that means for the rest of the Donovans, how they will keep those threads going - or if they will keep them going.

    But I'll be watching!


    I was so over the Abby/suicide subplot (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 12:54:59 PM EST
    it was sort of background noise.  but it was beautifully and artfully done.  the jump alone.

    oh god a tall building.  will he jump?  ohmygod.  he is falling and falling and he splats (did not yet know about season 6)...no, wait...he lans in the East River.  oh well, hes dead anyway from the toxins.

    it was the rest.  Sarandon.  she was great and clearly is now a regular.  Bunchy.  finally there is hope.  terry.  he will stay in LA.  and the cancer kid, i forget his name, will be back.  which saves Ray from the damning murder.  

    oh, and Mickey is finally officially is done.  no more ruining everything.

    what did i forget?  


    btw (none / 0) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:04:49 PM EST
    the irony of him saving the kid and himself by killing someone is not lost on us.

    Kevin Spacey accused of (none / 0) (#3)
    by McBain on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 12:04:45 PM EST
    sexual assualt
    "Star Trek: Discovery" star Anthony Rapp told BuzzFeed that Spacey made a sexual advance on him when he was 14 in 1986. At the time, Spacey was 26 years old.

    He's also being heavily criticized for coming out as gay right now.  I don't think that's particually fair.  The focus should be on the alleged crime.

    I thought the focus should be on (5.00 / 7) (#6)
    by CST on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 12:22:52 PM EST
    How we shouldn't believe the victim since he didn't speak up back in 1986 and that makes him somehow personally responsible for every bad thing that Kevin Spacey has done ever since.  And really we should feel bad for Kevin Spacey since he's going through a really tough time right now, with all the allegations becoming public.

    Isn't that more or less what you've said about every other case?

    He's being criticized because it was a blatant attempt to deflect and no one cares that he's gay.


    Stupid staw man arguement (2.00 / 1) (#23)
    by McBain on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:50:02 PM EST
    which lowers your credibility for future comments.  

    I think Spacey is being criticized because he's not well liked to begin with and other gay celebrities are upset because he didn't come out sooner.  


    Spacey not well liked? (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by vicndabx on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:59:08 PM EST
    Supporting evidence?

    One source is a lawyer I know (none / 0) (#48)
    by McBain on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 03:23:15 PM EST
    who has worked with celebrities. I certainly don't know it as fact, that's why I said "I think" but it's my impression based on what I've heard.

    I don't think he has an Edward Norton, Kathrine Heigl reputation of being horrible to work with, I just think he's rubbed some people the wrong way and that's part of why some in Hollywood are lashing out at him.

    I imagine some people weren't happy with him because, until today, he hadn't come out.  


    So we're clear (none / 0) (#49)
    by vicndabx on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 03:37:20 PM EST
    you believe, irrespective of the compliant alleged; inappropriate behavior w/a 14yr old, he's being attacked out of convenience by some in Hollywood, because he's "not well liked" according to your source(s)?

    I don't know what you mean by (none / 0) (#51)
    by McBain on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 04:07:52 PM EST
    "out of convenience"?  You mean they're using this as an excuse to slam him?

    My opinion is that many of those who have heavily criticized Spacey in social media, probably didn't like him before this particular allegation came out... and that has contributed to the criticism.  


    Yes that's what I meant. (none / 0) (#52)
    by vicndabx on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 06:08:31 PM EST
    BTW (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by CST on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:59:56 PM EST
    In order for something to be a "strawman" you have to actually be making an argument that I created a "strawman" to shoot down.

    For the life of me I can't see that you attempted to make any point at all in your first comment.


    It seems you do care CST (none / 0) (#37)
    by McBain on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 02:20:32 PM EST
    Your criticism was clearly about several of my comments...
    How we shouldn't believe the victim since he didn't speak up back in 1986 and that makes him somehow personally responsible for every bad thing that Kevin Spacey has done ever since...
    ...Isn't that more or less what you've said about every other case?

    Since that's not what I've said about every case (certainly not this one) you made a straw man argument.

    In the comment I made that started this thread, my point is very clear.. the focus should be on the alleged crime.


    responding to your comments (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by CST on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 07:49:30 AM EST
    does not mean I care what you think of me personally, don't flatter yourself.

    For someone who wants the focus to be on the alleged crime, you've somehow managed to make every comment since about something other than the alleged crime, like how Hollywood just doesn't like him because he "waited too long to come out".

    If you can come up with one single example of anyone in Hollywood ever being criticized for "waiting too long to come out" I'd love to see it.


    Spacey is being criticized because (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 02:03:08 PM EST
    he seems to think announcing he's decided to live life as a gay man reduces the response to the accusation of making an unwanted sexual advance on a 14 yr old to, "Oh, well, so you're gay - so that's okay then."

    What CST and I and I suspect many others are finding so interesting is the completely different approach you have to this accusation/explanation than you do when a woman is making the accusation against a man.

    In comment after comment, you routinely go after the woman's credibility, motives and agenda.  There's almost always something "we aren't being told" that would exonerate the man.  The actual crime gets very little attention from you because you almost never want to characterize what happened between the woman and the man as a crime to begin with.

    I guess you think that one of these days, one of us is going to have a light-bulb moment and realize that all your Neanderthal-era opinions make perfect sense, but if you can stand some advice, I would suggest you not hold your breath.


    Where does Spacey say (none / 0) (#40)
    by McBain on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 02:33:55 PM EST
    because he's gay "that's OK then"?

    In comment after comment, you routinely go after the woman's credibility, motives and agenda.

    I understand, if I suggest there might be more to a story involving an alleged female victim, I must hate women.  If I say something about a cop accused of a crime, I'm a cop lover/black person hater.  People like you, see what you want to see.

    The one thing I've been consistent about is speaking out on the typical rush to judgement that happens in  here and in the main stream news. Your current argument is easy to shoot down. I've spoken out in support of Amanda Knox, Casey Anthony, Betty Shelby and other women.  I'd support you if you were accused of a crime without the facts to support the allegation.


    I didn't say that Spacey said (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 02:44:25 PM EST
    "that's okay, then;" I said he is being criticized for linking his behavior with his sexual identity, as if announcing he's gay somehow makes the accusation of an unwanted sexual advance on a 14 yr old boy as "nothing to see here."  "Oh, so you're gay, well that explains it - let's just move along."

    Spacey didn't say that, but his announcement seems designed to elicit that attitude.


    there's no need to get personal and (none / 0) (#59)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 12:17:03 AM EST
    attack McBain. He's as entitled to his opinions are you are to yours. His comments on this topic are civilly expressed and I happen to agree with some of them. So please disagree without denigrating him.

    Here is the best expression (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 11:14:15 AM EST
    I have seen of the LGBT viewpoint, from one of my favorite blogs, Tom and Lorenzo. I think the straight world cannot really understand this viewpoint until it is explained. I get it now. Maybe you will too.

    Warning!!!! Language alert for the link (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 11:34:02 AM EST
    above. I've never seen them use the f-word in their blog posts.

    And I do realize (as do they) that no one speaks for a whole community. I just think they have a viewpoint I had not heard.


    Imagine that he was a child molester (5.00 / 4) (#74)
    by Towanda on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 03:11:49 PM EST
    of a 14-year-old girl and admitted it but added "it's because I'm straight."

    Se the problem?


    No, I don't (none / 0) (#156)
    by McBain on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 10:20:47 AM EST
    I don't believe Spacey used his sexuality as an excuse. He used drinking as an excuse but not being gay.

    If he had made advances on a 14 yr old girl, (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 11:05:04 AM EST
    I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have felt the need to mention that after many years, he had decided to live his life as a heterosexual man, now, would he?

    So, while it wasn't an "excuse," he apparently felt the need to explain why he pushed himself on a teenage boy and not a teenage girl.

    And this was part of the reason he's gotten so much negative reaction from the LGBTQ community: there are still a lot of people convinced that being gay makes someone a predator, and here is this well-known public figure providing an explanation that feeds right into that characterization: the gays are after your children!

    Spacey would have been better off just apologizing, period.  Neither his sexual identity nor his blood alcohol content make what he did any less traumatic for his victim, and in fact, probably serve to trivialize it, which in turn trivializes the apology.  


    He was trying to kill two birds with one stone (none / 0) (#162)
    by McBain on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 11:53:10 AM EST
    Apologize for something he might have done and come out of the closet after years of rumors.  Critics seem more concerned about the latter.  

    No, the people are criticizing Spacey (5.00 / 3) (#178)
    by Peter G on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 02:09:56 PM EST
    for seemingly tying the two together. Otherwise, there was no logical reason to mention both of those issues, at least not both in the same statement.

    There was nothing horribly wrong with his (1.00 / 2) (#182)
    by McBain on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 02:50:56 PM EST
    statement.  It's the alleged act that was horrible. It's as if a crime against political correctness is worse than an actual crime.

    Anyone watching the WH press briefing? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 12:17:01 PM EST
    I'm not in a position to, but I have to think it's gonna be a doozy.

    Sarah Sucks-to-be-you Sanders has probably got the talking points and the lies fired up and ready to go!

    The marvelous Alexandra Petri (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by Towanda on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:33:30 PM EST
    of WaPo tweets "shorter Sarah Sanders" for you:

    "we don't know these people. we never met. they just showed up one day to run the campaign, and we were too polite to say no."


    It will be all about Hillary (none / 0) (#7)
    by MKS on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 12:31:36 PM EST
    And this attempt to distract will be utterly without irony.

    watching (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 12:35:06 PM EST
    and drinking

    oops (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 12:36:16 PM EST
    had my usual 20 minute delay.

    watching now.   i will go back to the beginning


    first question (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 12:38:34 PM EST
    will he fire Mueller.



    she killed about 10 minutes (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 12:40:02 PM EST
    on some tax blah blah blah

    didnt watch.


    they (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 12:40:59 PM EST
    "expect" the investigation to end soon.

    I "expect" (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:06:50 PM EST
    They will be disappointed.

    will he pardon any one (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 12:43:02 PM EST
    we have not discussed it.

    (no cleavage)


    How on (none / 0) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 12:59:37 PM EST
    earth does she get up there and lie so much. Expect it to end soon I guess is another attempt to fleece the rubes yet again.

    Today was actually worse than I imagined. I imagined Manafort or Flynn would get indicted on what we pretty much knew he was doing--money laundering. However this guy flipping and actually showing how Trump was setting up meetings with the Russians and asking for their help is surprising to even me.


    funny thing (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:06:02 PM EST
    for the very first time i enjoyed the whole thing.

    day drinking!


    Sarah Sanders (none / 0) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:50:34 PM EST
    bringing back the joy of daytime cocktails! Perhaps there should be a drinking game figured out regarding her. I would suggest one should use "we did not know them" as one of the phrases.

    My favorite is when she uses the (none / 0) (#33)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 02:07:11 PM EST
    word "priorities," mainly because her mouth has to do gymnastics to say it.

    A Link? Referral? Source?.....please (none / 0) (#25)
    by NYShooter on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:50:49 PM EST
    ".....this guy flipping and actually showing how Trump was setting up meetings with the Russians......"

    here (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:59:13 PM EST
    is the link
    for laymen Renato Mariotti does a good breakdown on twitter.

    Thanks, Ga (none / 0) (#38)
    by NYShooter on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 02:21:12 PM EST
    It wasn't worth watching (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:08:40 PM EST
    I can't get that time back now

    im retired (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:10:33 PM EST
    Hey hey hey (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:38:48 PM EST
    The Twitter is dreaming of wires being worn.

    Grain of salt for the moment and all that

    Maybe Jeralyn and PeterG can weigh in on whether or not this is true in their experience: Papadopoulos is described as "proactive cooperator." Former prosecutor tells me that sometimes means "wore a wire."

    The government asks for Manafort and Gates to be placed under house arrest.


    Marcy Wheeler, as only Marcy can: (none / 0) (#26)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 01:52:21 PM EST
    A Month and a Half before the June 9 Meeting, Trump Campaign Learned about Hacked Emails

    The bad news is this guilty plea, for false statements, by campaign advisor George Papadopoulos, signed on October 5, but only unsealed today. That plea makes it clear that 1) the campaign had, as an explicit goal, making friends with Russia 2) a month and a half before the June 9 Trump Tower meeting, Russian handlers dangled the stolen Hillary emails 3) Papadopoulos has cooperated beyond what has been laid out in the guilty plea.

    As the plea lays out, Papadopoulos learned in early March he'd be a foreign policy advisor to the Trump campaign. Within weeks, a professor fresh off a trip to Moscow started cultivating him, and introduced him to a woman pretending to be Vladimir Putin's niece. After meeting that handler, Papadopoulos attended a meeting with Trump and others where he explained "he had connections that could help arrange a meeting between then-candidate Trump and President Putin." The plea makes clear that Papadopoulos kept the campaign in the loop on his "outreach to Russia."

    And it makes it clear that on April 26 -- three days before the DNC figured out Russia had hacked them -- Papadopoulos' handler told him Moscow had dirt on clinton.

    After learning the Russians had emails on Clinton even before Clinton learned it, Papadopoulos "continued to correspond with Campaign officials," including his Senior Policy Advisor and a High-Ranking Campaign Official. (One of these may be Manafort; another almost certainly is Jeff Sessions.)

    In response, the campaign decided to send someone low level "so as not to send any signal."

    It turns out, Papadopoulos lied about some of this the first time he spoke with the FBI about it on January 27. For example, he claimed he learned about the emails before he joined the campaign, trying to pretend that he didn't learn about them only because he had just been named a top advisor.


    My favorite part of the plea is the last paragraph:

       On July 27, 2017, defendant PAPADOPOULOS was arrested upon his arrival at Dulles International Airport. Following his arrest, defendant PAPADOPOULOS met with the Government on numerous occasions to provide information and answer questions.

    I'm betting the FBI asked him about this detail, from a March 31 meeting.

       On or about March 31, 2016, defendant PAPADOPOULOS attended a "national security meeting" in Washington, D.C., with then-candidate Trump and other foreign policy advisors for the Campaign. When defendant PAPADOPOULOS introduced himself to the group, he stated, in sum and substance, that he had connections that could help arrange a meeting between then-candidate Trump and President Putin.

    And there's even a photo.



    Another interesting coincidence (none / 0) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 02:08:24 PM EST
    Priebus was fired right after Papadopoulos was initially arrested at Dulles. It may not mean anything. I would hope the White House didn't know about Papadopoulos being arrested as there are reports that he spent time at the White House after his July arrest.

    If it is related though, what was Kelly told about why he was needed as CofS?


    I looked up the date that the story (none / 0) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 02:17:17 PM EST
    Was out about the White House fearing Mueller had people wired, it was Sept 18th. I don't have a date for the day that Papadopoulos recently spent at the White House though.

    Photo, (none / 0) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 03:13:34 PM EST
    Trump with Papadopoulos whom he probably never heard of, not to mention Sessions.

    Kurt Eichenwald has tweeted this (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 03:08:21 PM EST
    There are 6 more sealed sets of charges filed in DC federal court since Papadopoulus began cooperating until now. Thats a huge number.

    How can he know this?

    The existence of a sealed docket is itself (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Peter G on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 03:52:18 PM EST
    rarely kept secret. So you can readily count the number of sealed dockets created during a given time period in a given federal district, even though you typically could not tell anything about their substance or subject matter.

    Sealed cases (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 04:16:04 AM EST
    We used to do that in the Plame case and Boston Marathon bomber looking for the sealed docs.. But this is wierder.

    VA refers to his DC Magistrate case as 17 mj 158. DC also says 158 is the recently unsealed majistrate judges version, #156. It says its sealed. The VA court shows the VA docket as CR 156. Again, doecket is settled. Sounds like 156 could be for a second person.and is sealed, too. So were there 2 defendants back when this began in Feb. 17 named in the case with Popadou and the first one talked a good game, earning a dismissal before the ink was dry? Our federal court dosn't play these games with case numbers. If is say's filed, it means it and with either says sealed (no access or or it's open. , and either says that or its open to all. The sealed one is #156 in Va.


    He has (none / 0) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 03:20:29 PM EST
    good sources in the court?

    I read (none / 0) (#53)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 06:18:31 PM EST
    There were four missing numbers between Papa and Manafort/Gates

    my opinion (none / 0) (#54)
    by linea on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 07:24:43 PM EST
    first time i heard of the `manafort - yanukovych' connection i knew manafort was in deep with russian money laundering and all the rest.

    but manafort`s `white collar' crimes are unrelated to the unproven assertion that donald trump worked directly with the russian government to influence the united states election in some illegal way.

    however, one might speculate more possibilty with the Papadopoulos connection:

    The anonymous 'professor' who allegedly tried to facilitate a meeting between the Trump campaign and Russian officials has been identified as Joseph Mifsud, a 'diplomacy' expert from Malta who runs a training center for prospective ambassadors in London.

    Federal prosecutors say the professor - who was not named in court documents but was identified as Mifsud by the Washington Post on Monday - had high-level ties in Russia and helped introduce Trump campaign advisor George Papadopoulos to an individual connected to the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs in April 2016.

    That Russian official was identified in reports on Monday as Ivan Timofeev, a program director at the Kremlin-backed Russian International Affairs Council.

    According to prosecutors, the professor also passed on information to Papadopoulos about 'dirt' the Russians had uncovered on Clinton, including 'thousands of emails' they collected.

    [source: www.dailymail.co.uk]

    Trump hardly worked with Russians personally. (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 01:44:57 AM EST
    Rather, the investigation is looking at his campaign staff and surrogates, many of whom have clearly been untruthful about their own respective contacts with Russians.

    Trump is, however, responsible and liable for the conduct of his campaign. And I find it inconceivable that all these senior campaign staff -- including his own son and son-in-law -- would initiate these numerous contacts with Russians without the candidate's implied consent.



    We don't know that one way or another (none / 0) (#171)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 01:12:57 PM EST
    The Russian characterizd and dismissed as the father of the pop singer, who met with Manafort, Kushnerm DTJr, and others in the infamous June meeting, is a long term Putin crony and also an associate of Trump from his Mss Universe pagaent in Russia days. Why would I doubt he talked to Trump about this?

    John Kelly has now gone on Fox News (none / 0) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 09:45:45 PM EST
    And declared the American people don't care about this Mueller investigation.

    MY GOD! What the Holy Hell?

    and the civil war was just a failure (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 11:17:31 AM EST
    to compromise.

    He's just like the rest of this passel of fools.


    The more Kelly opens his yakker... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by desertswine on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 08:47:36 PM EST
    the dumber he becomes.

    There was an obvious compromise (none / 0) (#70)
    by MKS on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 11:40:34 AM EST
    Kelly was right.

    The Constitution said African Americans counted as 3/5 a person.   Abolitionists wanted equality.  Well, just meet in the middle:  African Americans should count as 4/5 a person.  Done.


    Bernie Sanders agrees with John Kelly (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 12:03:30 AM EST
    that "ordinary Ameircans" don't worry about this Russia thing.  

    Shut up, Bernie.


    It may be true (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 01:19:43 PM EST
    that "ordinary Americans" don't worry about this Russian thing in that citizens are busy balancing work, child-raising and many other responsibilities...and taking enjoyment where they can in sporting or other recreational events.

    It is this crowded life and its focus that makes the country vulnerable. After completion of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, Benjamin Franklin was asked, well, what do we have, Dr. Franklin, a Republic or monarchy. To which Franklin replied, "a Republic, if we can keep it."

    Indeed, because of the everyday demands and needs of citizens, it behooves responsible politicians to take up, on their behalf, macro as well as micro worries and threats to the Republic.

    Although, I am not entirely convinced that citizens "don't worry about this Russian thing," their being informed and educated about its impact on everyday citizens is essential.  And, these efforts are not mutually exclusive with parallel concerns such as health care and a livable wage.

    Special Counsel Mueller is pursuing the crime that is the Trump presidency, but a political understanding is also a part of its resolution.  The kakistocracy directly affects the lives of ordinary citizens, their children and grandchildren.

      The country needs every voice and every ally to participate in defending and saving the Republic; Bernie is doing a disservice to the nation by seeming to dismiss this "Russia thing." and to, even inadvertently, bring aid and comfort to Trump et al., by restricting his influence to  cries against millionaires and billionaires.  



    I don't think he was trying... (none / 0) (#177)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 01:49:09 PM EST
    to dismiss the Russia thing so much as to say it should not be the "message" of the opposition party, if you check the full context of the interview.  

    There is so much more to do to save the Republic above and beyond the Russia thing, and Donald Trump.


    The interpretation (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 02:40:34 PM EST
    of benign caution seems improvident, or at least, overly-generous.  The "opposition party" and "message" need to be viewed within the context of the Russian attempts and successes in subverting elections and the electorate.

     And, within the context of undermining, and, possibly, ending the special counsel's investigation.  Saving the Republic above and beyond the Russian thing is interconnected with the Russian thing. A thing that involves political conspiracy. That is a message not to be discounted in any way. Equating or leveling priorities, may only embolden, if not green light, a constitutional crisis.


    I think (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 05:36:14 PM EST
    you can do two things at one time.

    Sorry (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 05:38:20 PM EST
    but if you don't get rid of the Russian influence on our elections there is going to be no fixing of anything else.

    Fun Fact (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by FlJoe on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 01:20:38 PM EST
    Bernie's Senior Campaign advisor appears to be cut from the same cloth as Manafort.
    In 2009 Manafort was working to help improve the image of pro-Russian Ukranian politician Viktor Yanukovych in an effort to make the presidential nominee seem more accessible, and thus more palatable, to the American Congress. Joining Manafort in that effort was an American consultant named Tad Devine, a man who himself had a dubious history of foreign intervention. Among Devine's highlights is having worked for exiled Bolivian president Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada in 2002 as well as ousted Honduran president Manuel Zelaya in 2005. Devine then worked for Yanukovych from 2006 up until he was elected president of Ukraine in 2010. Like both Lozada and Zelaya, Yanukovych has since been removed from power and he currently resides in exile in Russia and just happens to be wanted for treason in Ukraine.
     and while us normal Americans worried about paying the rent , this representative of the self proclaimed representative of the American people had no such worries.
    According to Slate, through both his consulting work as well as his work with Old Time Media, Devine was able to net himself roughly $10 million through his work on the campaign. For a campaign that prided itself as going to fight for the little guy, Devine, an establishment political consultant and friend of Bernie Sanders, seemed perfectly content to pocket millions of dollars.
    Link, Just sayin....

    And should be said... (none / 0) (#176)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 01:38:31 PM EST
    Sanders association with Devine was most disheartening, and a most valid criticism.  

    I have no illusions about any angels in this game.


    This (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by FlJoe on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 06:33:30 PM EST
    new poll suggests Americans are paying attention.
    A 58 percent majority say they approve of Mueller's handling of the investigation while 28 percent say they disapprove, the Post-ABC poll finds.
    only 14% are not paying attention. Many are troubled
    49 percent think it is likely Trump himself committed a crime in connection with possible Russian attempts to influence the election, though more say this view is based on suspicion rather than hard evidence.

    Exactly. So, we are better than Bernie (none / 0) (#199)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 07:41:02 PM EST
    thinks at being able to pay attention to current events while also attending to our personal events.

    Or perhaps the problem is that we are paying attention to these significant concerns undermining our democracy, rather than to the latest pronouncements from Our Revolution?


    And here I thought you could do more (1.00 / 1) (#202)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 08:36:30 PM EST
    than one thing at a time...while you are fighting the forces trying to undermine the democracy in the many and varied ways currently underway, you have to also have a vision and be working to shape that democracy in ways that best help the people living in it.

    I just fail to see how it can be a bad thing to keep people energized, active, interested and engaged in the process to work for the kinds of changes we badly need.  It has led to more people deciding to run for public office.  It has encouraged people to hold their elected representatives accountable.

    Bernie didn't say people weren't paying attention, he said he didn't think people were worrying about it, which is not the same thing.

    People can be aware of, and approve of, the Russia investigation, and can also believe Trump is in it up to his armpits, but I think they can also not worry about what that means as much as they worry about whether they will ever get a pay raise, or how they can send their kids to college, or afford health care, or be able to retire.


    Spoken like someone... (none / 0) (#157)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 10:21:14 AM EST
    not worried about the rent due on the tenth;)

    Some context to Bernie's comment, he said "Americans are not staying up every day worrying about Russia's interference in our election. They're wondering how they're going to send their kids to college. They're wondering how they're going to be able to pay the rent."

    He's absolutely right...it would be foolish for Democrats, and their friendly media partners, to focus too much on Russia in a fervor to extinguish the Trumpster Fire. Better to let Mueller do his thing, and focus on domestic policy that will help poor, working, and middle class people.  And by extension, the 2018 midterms.  

    Let Trump and his co-conspirators worry about Russia and Mueller...that is their pressing worry, like the rent and sending your kids to college is the pressing worry of the 70 or so percent of Americans who are living paycheck to paycheck.


    No (5.00 / 5) (#169)
    by FlJoe on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 12:40:27 PM EST
    just like the war crimes of Bush and the financial shenanigans of wall street we should never go back to the "look forward not backwards" meme, while Bernie still wants to blow his own horn with his pony promises.

    Not to say that his issues are not important, but it is not helpful to the cause to ignore the fact that the oligarchs both foreign and domestic are rapidly taking this country  over.

    Bernie does not speak for this American, who goes to bed each night not only with the normal financial worries, but also with the dread and heartbreak of seeing this country sink into the not so soft tyranny of a banana republic.

    IMO, putting this Russian thing on the back burner spells doom. This sht has to stop and it has to stop now, before any movement to a more just and equitable can occur.


    Sinking Joe? (none / 0) (#175)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 01:29:08 PM EST
    Sh*t Brother, we sunk into oligarchy when I was in diapers if not before...we're just arguing about the depths to which we have sunk at this point.

    I'd go further as to what is required before any movement to more just and equitable can occur.  Getting the money out of politics has to stop and stop now...Russia ain't got nothin' on the negative influence our domestic oligarchs have and have had for well over 30 years.


    I won't (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by FlJoe on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 04:10:35 PM EST
    argue with you, the tide has been running against us since Ronnie Raygun and his Voodoo economics came on the scene.

    However, for the most part, at least our oppressors have been homegrown. Unfortunately large portions of the electorate suffered the boiling frog syndrome, and it has become just life in the good old USA.

    Hell yes, Americans should lie awake worrying about the Russians pounding nails into our coffin. If this is not beyond the pale, then what the WTF is? This should not be put on the back burner. This is the hill where we must make our stand, there are no more.


    Sometimes, it's just too much. (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 05:25:42 PM EST
    I mean, it's been something every damn day since the election.  I get to the point where I have to shut it down, step away from the news, from information, and just be present in my own life.  Spend time with the grandkids, with my family, read a book, just sit outside and feel the breeze and listen to the leaves rustle in the trees.

    It's ALL important, and how do you prioritize what is most important?  It's ALL connected, so which thread do we pull on first?  Is it the constant attack on the Constitution?  Is it nuclear war? Is it health care, Social Security, equal rights, voter suppression, the environment, Russia, corruption, reproductive rights.

    The people I talk to are scared.  Anxious.  Stressed.  Snappy, crabby, impatient.  WHO HELPS US?  Who can we trust?  Who can we believe?

    Here's an article I read recently that speaks to some of this.  Here's a short bit from a very long article:

    The US is experiencing a deep epistemic breach, a split not just in what we value or want, but in who we trust, how we come to know things, and what we believe we know -- what we believe exists, is true, has happened and is happening.

    The primary source of this breach, to make a long story short, is the US conservative movement's rejection of the mainstream institutions devoted to gathering and disseminating knowledge (journalism, science, the academy) -- the ones society has appointed as referees in matters of factual dispute.

    Yes, it matters, all of it, but sometimes I feel the paralysis at the edges, and that scares me most of all.


    Me too Anne (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 07:15:12 PM EST
    It is waking up to a new nightmare every day. It all matters.

    Perhaps we should... (none / 0) (#185)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 04:58:08 PM EST
    But people can only lie awake worrying about only so many things. I guess I just don't see this as "the" hill when so many huge hills have passed with no firm stand made.

    Kinda funny we are just debating the semantics of Bernie's stump speech...that we don't own a democracy that is rightfully ours, and nothing gets better systemically until we seize that ownership. Be it from the Russians, the Bankers, the Billionaires, Facebook....


    And (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by FlJoe on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 05:26:00 PM EST
    how many times have you trashed Democrats for not defending those hills? We have to stop them somewhere before we seize anything.
    Be it from the Russians, the Bankers, the Billionaires, Facebook....or maybe the Martians might wake the sheeple up.....sigh.

    Many times... (none / 0) (#191)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 06:18:46 PM EST
    So of course I'm naturally skeptical if Dems are in it to truly restore the morality and integrity of our democracy or if Russia/Trump is to Dems what Clinton/Blowj#b was to 90's Repubs, just the means to a desired political end. Which I must admit would be a desirable kick arse fuck!n end in this particular circumstance...but not preventing the gravest threat to our Republic.

    We're giving a nation in decline like Russia way too much credit imo.


    Sorry Kdog (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 07:01:04 PM EST
    but you're too stuck in the past with your ideas of Russia. They are run by a propaganda master and computers and social media are cheap platforms to press your case on. He has plenty of oil and he can't get it on the market with the sanctions. This is cyber warfare and is nothing like you are thinking in the past.

    Silly (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by FlJoe on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 07:33:41 PM EST
    wabbit, I'm not talking about the Dems, I'm talking about you and Bernie or any other decent Americans who are willing to poo-poo this thing. The enemy has been bludgeoning us for years with much less to work with. Its time to pick up this club and fight back,

    The one silver lining to this whole mess is that we have been handed a massive weapon that can be used to turn the tables on them. It should be all hands on deck beating the living crap out of these fascist pigs. At this point it matters little of the past, present or future behavior of the Democrats, forcing the likes of Sessions, Bannon and the whole vile tRump family back under the rocks they crawled out from would be an unqualified success for the entire world.

    Besides, this might be the spark you revolutionary types have been waiting for. The Russians and their GOP puppets today, Facebook tomorrow, Exxon mobile before we die!


    Just out of curiosity, Joe, who (none / 0) (#179)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 02:18:37 PM EST
    does speak for you?  Who do you see as the best person to pick up the reins and try to steer the country to the place you think it needs to go?

    And is your problem with Sanders' message or that he is the messenger?

    For myself, I haven't identified anyone yet whom I think can represent and lead on the issues that matter to me, but in the meantime, I'm happy to have Sanders out there keeping the focus on the economic and social policies we need to work for and work to maintain.


    I (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by FlJoe on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 03:38:16 PM EST
    got no one, frankly I'm not quite such a person can exist. I'm at not a believer of some savior riding in on a white horse to save us. Probably more than anything that's my beef with Bernie, he implied and many of his supported insisted that he was this(IMO) mythical person.

    Policy wise, in the abstract, I mostly agree with Bernie, but we do not live in the abstract.


    I live on a fixed income now (none / 0) (#160)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 11:26:05 AM EST
    How 'bout you?

    And I worry for my children, their incomes still suffering from the recession.  So I still help with their student loans and more.  And So, because they cannot, I also contribute to a savings plan for college for their children, and more.

    But I am capable of also worrying about the country in which they will live, with its elections undermined by countries hostile to us.

    Why do you, like Sanders, think that the rest of us cannot hold more than one idea in our minds at a time -- when we are not the ones, like Sanders, with the one-teack minds?

    And why do you, like Sanders, constantly speak like someone who is victimized? He is a millionaire. He has been part of the D.C. power elite in the Senate for decades.  Pick your heroes more wisely.


    I like to think I can hold... (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 11:53:33 AM EST
    more than a few ideas/concerns in my mind at the same...but some ideas/concerns are a daily, others are abstract and not pressing.  The Russia sh&t is a back-burner for most anybody who isn't a well-fed political junkie. That's Bernie's point, and a valid one.

    I'm more worried about those victimized daily by an unnecessarily cruel and unusual economic system, immigration system, justice system, health care system. Worry about myself?  My lifestyle would indicate I'm not all that worried about myself;)  

    I mean c'mon Towanda...when Bernie was speaking of the undue influence of domestic big money on our elections and policies his detractors said shut up and deal, it's the way it is.  Now those same detractors are up in arms about Russian influence.  Robert Mercer, the Kremlin, the Kochs, the powerful lobbies...what's the difference when they're all about usurping the power of the people of these United States.  None have the interests of the ordinary American at heart, only their own.  

    Russian collusion with the Trump campaign is under investigation, and it will take sometime to complete. Soap opera updates every day/hour/minute aren't helping anyone as far as I can tell, or changing any minds.

    As for foreign influence outside of direct campaign collusion, I don't what can be done about internet trolls on the Kremlin payroll stirring the pot on social media while maintaining a free and open internet...the answer there is a less gullible and not so easily trolled citizenry. Good luck to us with that one! lol  


    It isn't a case of people not being able (none / 0) (#164)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 11:56:42 AM EST
    to juggle more than one issue at a time, it's just that most people don't focus on things they don't see as affecting their day-to-day lives.

    I feel like I am in a similar place in life as you are - although I am still working for the next year: kids with children of their own, paying a good deal of their income for health insurance and child care, trying to inch ahead faster than the costs that could sink them.

    On some level, they know what's happening with Russia and Trump has meaning to the future and direction of the country, as do all the policies being put into place, but what mental energy they have is spent on managing the chaos of little children, household finances and the ever-present work/life balance.

    Sanders speaks to the issues that keep young families - and us older folk - awake at night.  He keeps those issues in the spotlight, and as near as I can tell, isn't selling us down the river when no one's watching.  He didn't grow up with money, he knows what struggle looks and feels like, and these basic life issues have been his thing for decades, so I have no idea why, as a person approaching his 80's he should be excoriated for being a "millionaire."

    Or why anyone should be excoriated for picking the battles that matter the most to them.


    That's not what Bernie said (1.50 / 2) (#180)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 02:19:34 PM EST
    nor sre he, or you or kdog, supported by polling on reaction to the Trump-Russia story.

    But you're good at both-sidesism, too.


    And he says he will never (none / 0) (#56)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 09:49:46 PM EST
    Apologize to Rep Wilson.

    WTF is wrong with him?


    As I said on Oct. 20, ... (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 01:52:25 AM EST
    ... No apologies, no regrets, no retreat, no surrender, and take no prisoners.

    I'm becoming convinced that these guys will have to literally be dragged kicking and screaming from the White House.

    This will likely not end well at all.


    He (none / 0) (#76)
    by FlJoe on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 03:22:00 PM EST
    is a fascist tyrant, they all are. I really fear for our democracy, he could fire Mueller and arrest Hillary tomorrow and he would not lose enough support to matter (I am mighty cynical today).

    Could he be running an op? (none / 0) (#89)
    by smott on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 07:13:03 AM EST
    Trying to keep Trump's trust?

    I'm hoping....


    I'm consistent on one thing at least (none / 0) (#172)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 01:17:56 PM EST
    the 'demanding an apology' stuff drives me nuts no matter who is involved.

    It's just the press's way to keep a fight going.


    Meanwhile (none / 0) (#93)
    by FlJoe on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 09:54:09 AM EST
    he insists the the American people are interested in the real investigation
    White House chief of staff John Kelly

     on Monday said that a special counsel should be appointed to investigate an Obama-era uranium sale and Democrats' roles in funding a controversial opposition research dossier on President Trump.

    In an interview on Fox News's "The Ingraham Angle," Kelly said that Americans have a right to know what the U.S. government is doing "on any given day" and that an "objective" investigator is necessary to look into "accusations" against Democrats.

    Calling for a virtual show trial of political opponents, how Stalinesque.

    Well, Happy Birthday... (none / 0) (#57)
    by desertswine on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 10:16:58 PM EST
    to Ivanka, the Princess of America.

    Trump said to be behind closed doors tomorrow (none / 0) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 30, 2017 at 10:20:13 PM EST
    That's what he did before he fired Comey

    He is definitely being pushed (none / 0) (#60)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 02:17:03 AM EST
    to get rid of Mueller by a number of conservatives. If he does it though Pantsuit Nation, Indivisible and other groups stand ready to take to the streets.

    Scary thing...I'll be there with you guys (none / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 06:00:03 AM EST
    But will it matter?

    This administration and most Republicans in power in the House and Senate don't have a healthy fear of our citizens. Not at this time.


    The politicians (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 11:01:52 AM EST
    don't fear the citizens because they have been so successful in keeping the citizenry fragmented and divided. If they feared us, we would have universal health care, efficient mass transportation and infrastructure.

    That would be the new goal of the left. Screw getting respect, make them fear us.


    Did you happen to catch (none / 0) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 03:03:16 PM EST
    The new Northam ad? With the children running to escape?

    We need more of that, we need to stop sugar coating who these men are and what their vision for our nation really is.


    I saw that. (none / 0) (#78)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 04:40:24 PM EST
    Very powerful. And Gillespie started running to Fox to whine about the ad. After all the noxious confederate ads he ran. The GOP is so used to getting away with this crap that they whine when someone fights back and points out what they are doing.

    is the `Northrum ad' (none / 0) (#82)
    by linea on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 11:13:16 PM EST
    a reference to these videos by the Latino Victory Project?

    this political-advertisment implies the opposition candidate is a neo-confederate white-supremicist who wants to physically attack young children:
    Gillespie: American Nightmare [video]

    this political-advertisment overtly states that the opposition candidate is a bigoted racist and implies he is a neo-nazi:
    Trump and Gillespie: Two Peas in a Pod [video]

    i realize the u.s. has lax libel and slander laws but i believe these videos would be legally demamatory in most e.u. counties and would actually be considered Libel Per Se. in the e.u., political parties have won slander lawsuits for being called `fascist' by opposition parties.


    So what, linea? (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 02:08:49 AM EST
    We're not in Europe. In France, incendiary hate speech is a crime. In fact, right-wing presidential candidate Marine Le Pen was brought up on charges in Lyon a few years ago, for having compared Muslim immigrants in France to Nazi German forces who occupied her country during the Second World War.

    If slanderous campaign ads were subject to libel charges, the Republican Party would've been bankrupted 30 years ago.



    i'm sorry! (3.00 / 1) (#138)
    by linea on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 10:13:44 PM EST
    by Donald from Hawaii
    If slanderous campaign ads were subject to libel charges, the Republican Party would've been bankrupted 30 years ago.

    what's wrong with that? watching political-advertisments in america is like watching two drunk men in a bar yelling at each other. what's wrong with wanting something more adult?

    and i know we're not in europe. i'm an american. i'm not an expert on europe but i thought my point might be interesting.

    i like the Le Pen reference. i expect all of my friends here in seattle would enthusiastically agree that french-style incendiary hate speech laws be enforced here in america. i imagine some people really don't understand milllenials.


    Unfortunately, incendiary hate speech ... (none / 0) (#142)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 01:39:10 AM EST
    ... appears to be all the rage now in America, pun intended. And speaking of rage, Donald Trump will be arriving in Honolulu on Friday night at 5:00 p.m., right in the middle of rush hour, and will be staying at the Trump Tower in Waikiki.

    Fortunately, I'll be avoiding all that. I'm at Hilo Airport tonight, heading to Los Angeles in an hour on a business trip to Bend, OR. I arrive in Bend at 10:15 a.m. PDT tomorrow, and return to Hawaii Tuesday afternoon on the very last B747 commercial flight by a U.S. carrier. Then I'm spending the night in Honolulu visiting with my eldest daughter and her family before returning to Hilo the next day.

    Enjoy the day tomorrow, everyone. Aloha.


    I can do better than that (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by mm on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 05:35:02 AM EST
    Watching ads every day here in NOVA, I have learned from lobbyist Ed Gillespie that his Democratic opponent Ralph Northam supports MS-13 gangs "killing, raping and controlling" the streets in NOVA.

    The new ad echoes a similar commercial aired last week by the Gillespie campaign that interspersed images of Northam with the MS-13 motto and tattooed faces of men who, as it turns out, were not MS-13 members and were photographed in a prison in El Salvador.

    In addition, apparently the Democratic candidate, Ralph Northam, the current lieutenant governor,an Army veteran ( During Operation Desert Storm, he treated evacuated casualties at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany), and pediatric neurologist supports child rapists.

    New ad accuses Ralph Northam of being proud of helping sex offenders

    Finally, I learned from Ed Gillespie's ads that Ralph Northam wants to give away all of VA state university slots to illegal immigrants and dreamers.

    One Gillespie mailer blasts Northam for supporting driver's licenses and in-state tuition for "illegals" -- a pejorative term that's a marked departure from Gillespie's longtime advocacy that the GOP be more welcoming to minorities and avoid the "political siren's song" of anti-immigrant rhetoric.

    The WP endorsement of Ralph Northam:

    Having used massive TV advertising buys to whip up the fears and hatreds of his party's extremists -- by equating illegal immigrants with violent Hispanic gangs; by embracing Confederate monuments weeks after they were the rallying cause for neo-Nazis and white supremacists in Charlottesville; by distorting the facts on rights restoration for a convicted sex offender -- the Republican candidate has swapped his cloak as a problem-solver for a demagogue's mantle. Having chosen to campaign as a divider, Mr. Gillespie's chances of governing as a uniter are dim.

    It is possible that Mr. Gillespie's descent into gutter tactics will pay off at the polls Nov. 7. If that's the case, and Virginia Republicans rejoice on election night, what they will really be celebrating is a victory of divisiveness and the ascent of wedge politics in a state once known for comity.

    I thought it was a very good ad linea (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 05:48:37 AM EST
    Because 2 different boys at my son's old high school in Alabama flew rebel flags in the beds of their pick up trucks this time last year. They were of course white. And you should have seen the looks on the faces of the kids of color that had to go to school with them. This driving down the road intimidating others in exactly that fashion happens in the South. And now the White House is telling them it's okay, and empowering them.

    Someone needs to show them what they look like.

    I'm surprised to find out it appears some of them can be embarrassed by seeing themselves in an ad.


    All I can (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 05:59:54 AM EST
    say is if you are worried about Northam "libeling" Gillespie, you have not watched the campaign Gillespie has been running.

    linea, New York Times (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 10:48:31 AM EST
    v. Sullivan makes it very hard for public figures to sue and win defamation lawsuits.  The plaintiff has to prove reckless disregard for the truth, not just that the published statement was false.



    If your interpretation is correct. (none / 0) (#90)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 08:42:19 AM EST
    GREAT! This is exactly the kind of ads that Democrats need to be running! Get mean. Get brutal. Make the crazies look even crazier. Get some Northam, get some Latino Victory Project. Call the GOP racists and nazis. I love it!

    Very concerned (none / 0) (#91)
    by mm on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 09:13:55 AM EST
    I am not as sanguine as you seem to be about this. This is VA, a very mixed bag.  Northam was running very comfortably with a good lead until Gillespie decided to turn this into a referendum on slavery.  The polls have tightened up considerably, some showing Gillespie in the lead now.

    Not sure I understand. (none / 0) (#92)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 09:38:01 AM EST
    How is Gillespie gaining a lead with referendum on slavery? Is he for it? Does he believe that VA should return to it? How do you win on that platform? If this is a winning strategy in parts of VA, then they not "deplorable," the are repugnant excuses for human beings. And maybe VA deserves Ed Gillespie.

    However if Gillespie got his gains by getting nasty, then maybe I'm right, Northam needs to get nastier. Don't bring a kumbaya song to a gunfight.


    Sorry. (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by mm on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 11:03:14 AM EST
    I was being a bit snarky.  Obviously I didn't mean he was literally running on a referendum on slavery.  He is using the confederate memorial issue which drew national attention in Charlottesville recently.  Gen. Kelly just recently discussed the Civil War without ever once saying the word slavery. Yesterday Sarah Sanders was asked if slavery was wrong and walked out without responding.

    ...the Virginia Republican Party sent a new mailer, approved by Gillespie, that accused Northam of wanting to "tear down history while making life easier for illegal immigrants." The "history" in question are the Confederate monuments that mark the Virginia landscape, from the equestrian statue of Robert E. Lee in Charlottesville--focal point in August for a violent gathering of neo-Nazis and white supremacists--to Monument Avenue in Richmond...

    I live in NOVA. My brothers both graduated from Robert E. Lee HS in Springfield.  


    I'm not so (none / 0) (#64)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 31, 2017 at 08:07:29 AM EST
    sure enough of them don't fear the citizens but perhaps enough do.

    Floodgates have opened for Hollywood (none / 0) (#103)
    by McBain on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 12:46:33 PM EST
    SA accusations. Dustin Hoffman is the latest big name star to be accused.
    I have the utmost respect for women and feel terrible that anything I might have done could have put her in an uncomfortable situation. I am sorry. It is not reflective of who I am," he said in a statement.

    Not sure what the lasting impact will be.  So far, Weinstein has been kicked out of his own company.  House of Cards suspended production because of the Kevin Spacey allegations.  Will we see lower box office turnouts and TV ratings?  More politically correct content? An actual criminal conviction?  I bet there's a lot of hush money being thrown around.  

    From what I've heard (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by jondee on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 01:30:28 PM EST
    from fairly reliable sources, there's been hush money thrown and stark threats of retribution wielded, around Hollywood Babylon since the Fatty Arbuckle days.

    If some women and men now feel more empowered to stand up for themselves in ways that they couldn't in the past, that can't be anything but a good thing.

    Maybe the safety-in-numbers spirit manifesting in Hollywood will start reminding other American workers that there was a time when they didn't just take their opioids and keep their mouths shut.


    but but (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 07:19:17 PM EST
    House of Cards has suspended.  how much will we be asked to suffer!?

    I just read a story about Spacey's conduct on the (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 07:18:07 PM EST
    set of HoC.  Really horrifying.  

    Wish he weren't involved as a producer or it could easily go on with just Claire!  On the other hand, if Robin Wright saw what was going on and did not help these young men, I don't have time for her either.


    What Changes Does Trump Want? (none / 0) (#113)
    by RickyJim on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 01:39:20 PM EST
    What constitutional amendments would Trump propose?
    We need quick justice and we need strong justice -- much quicker and much stronger than we have right now. Because what we have right now is a joke and it's a laughing stock. And no wonder so much of this stuff takes place.

    Not real swift, is he? (none / 0) (#115)
    by jondee on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 02:05:29 PM EST
    Or is it just that he thinks the folks he's grandstanding for aren't real swift?

    One tends to suspect the latter.

    The Cut Cut Cut Act? (none / 0) (#117)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 02:22:40 PM EST
    According to reports, this is what Trump wants to name the tax bill - if they ever actually have a tax bill, that is.

    Guess I'll have to wait til I get home and off the roads to have that drink, not that it will help.

    Another welcome reminder (none / 0) (#120)
    by Towanda on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 03:23:44 PM EST
    that I retired from teaching U.S. history just in time.

    It was awful enough teaching Trumpsters -- a major reason for my retirement, as they made my last semester of one of my favorite classes miserable -- but it would be even more awful to teach about the Trump era. How could I discuss, with a straight face, "the Cut Cut Cut Act"?

    Of course, I could make it a multiple-choice question on a test, to which the correct answer could only be "Covfefe."


    Do tell aout the Trumpster students (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 03:29:57 PM EST
    What did they do?

    I guess the House Republicans have decided (none / 0) (#154)
    by vml68 on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 10:10:55 AM EST
    to pass on that name for the bill.

    IMO, it needed one more "cut" in there to be a winner :-)!


    it's so sad (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 04:22:56 PM EST
    and transparent that Trump is jumping on this tragedy in NY, well 2 reasons, one to try to change the subject but i think the bigger reason is because the word, DIRTY word to his fans, DIVERSITY is in the title.

    he said it a half dozen times in his rants.  mispronouncing it a few times.  pointing out it sounds nice but ITS NOT.


    I know. I thought (none / 0) (#125)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 04:50:25 PM EST
    the same thing. It's like you can predict this stuff before they happen.

    diversity (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 05:28:05 PM EST
    is a hot button word.

    god help us.


    I have to say (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 01, 2017 at 07:00:25 PM EST
    that the Latino Decisions ad in VA is really making the GOP squirm. The rep from where I grew up in SC has it up on Facebook talking about it and is talking about people being called "racists". He never acknowledges the kind of race Gillespie is running in VA though. Again, it just seems that the GOP is allowed to do this kind of stuff and we are not.

    Has Trump tainted (none / 0) (#147)
    by smott on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 08:22:51 AM EST
    The jury pool w his tweets about the death penalty for the NY terrorist?

    Lawyers weigh in?

    Vegas police chief Lombardo says (none / 0) (#186)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 05:10:51 PM EST
    Paddock's GF might not have been completely forthcoming when interviewed by investigators about whether she knew he was collecting so many weapons, and Lombardo also said this:
    No motive for the Oct. 1 shooting has been revealed yet, but Lombardo said that since September 2015, Paddock - a high-rolling gambler - had lost a significant amount of wealth.

    "I think that might have a determining factor on what he determined to do," Lombardo said.

    The sheriff said Paddock was narcissistic, had some bouts of depression and was very status-driven, based on how he liked to be recognized in the casinos and by his family and friends, which was starting to decline.

    BTW, SUO.... (none / 0) (#197)
    by NYShooter on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 07:33:17 PM EST
    Aren't cases of this magnitude generally handled by an organization large enough, experienced enough, and also, in possession of all the experts & tools required to properly investigate large, deadly acts like this one......an organization like the FBI?

    I checked it out, just to be sure, and, sure enough, it's the LVMPD (The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department) that's the lead agency.

    I'm not up to date as to protocol, but, shouldn't an outfit, like The FBI, even Homeland Security, be in the lead?

    P.S. If this question has already been asked, and, answered, I apologize.


    Not necessarily. (none / 0) (#200)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 08:00:10 PM EST
    Murder is usually a state crime. Not Federal. What US statute do you believe Paddock may have broken? Seems very appropriate that LVMPD would be lead agency. Maybe FBI would lend resources, but not specifically lead if its not a federal crime.

    I really want to see (none / 0) (#196)
    by ruffian on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 07:26:23 PM EST
    This movie. Wait For Your Laugh, a documentary about the 90+ year career of Rose Marie, the comedienne and singer best known for her roles as Sally Rogers on The Dick Van Dyke Show and as a regular on the classic years of Hollywood Squares.  She has had an amazing life and career, and a hell of a lot of fun from the looks of it. Tragedy too because: life.

    I always think of Mary Richards as my first working woman role model, but really it was Sally Rogers. My whole family lived and breathed the DVD show when I was a wee one.

    Yes, she is still alive, and adorable on twitter, if you need something to cheer you up. Hope the doc comes to Netflix or someplace else I can get it very soon!

    I met Rose Marie once (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 02, 2017 at 08:11:03 PM EST
    Oddly enough the sister of my best friend married Peter Marshall.  Who is a very nice man and considerably older than Dons little sister Lori.  But I digress.
    When I went to LA for my first interviews in the winter of 93 I stayed at their house.  While I was there they had a little get together and several of the Hollywood Squares luminaries showed up.

    It was so exciting for me.  I lover Hollywood Squares and I grew up with those people.


    83 here yesterday (none / 0) (#204)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 03, 2017 at 07:54:05 AM EST
    a record.   records are dropping like flies.