Mexico Reaffirms It Will Not Pay For Trump's Wall

Donald Trump and his incendiary but essentially meaningless border wall talk and executive order do nothing but push people's buttons.

Mexican President Pena Nieto today posted a video message to the Mexican people today on Twitter, saying "As I've said again and again, Mexico will not pay for any wall." (México no pagará por ningún muro".) (Article here.)[More...]

Donald Trump during his campaign:

I will build a great wall -- and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me --and I'll build them very inexpensively. I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will make Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words.

Every time I read about the wall now, I'm reminded of the Proclaimers' catchy tune:

I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more
Just to be the man who walked 1,000 miles
To fall down at your door

No wall is going to stop a determined migrant. If they fail, they'll try again.

"Even if they build the wall, I will climb the wall. I bring a ladder the size of the wall, even from sticks or whatever, but I'll make it, and I'll jump over there," said José de Jesús Ramírez, a recently deported Mexican migrant whose wife and children are in the U.S.

Trump doesn't know where he'd put a wall. Because there is no place to put it. You can't put a wall on the top of a mountain or in a river, and those are about the only places left without a fence or wall.

There are about 700 miles of border wall or fence along the U.S.-Mexico border. Much of the rest of the border sits against land barriers including canyon walls 1,500 feet tall like those of the Santa Elena Canyon across from Big Bend National Park.

From a CNN opinion column:

Trump's executive order does not specify how or where these new sections of the wall would be built. Trump's wall order is merely a concession to his supporters and, of course, carries no force in compelling Mexico to pay for construction. As yet, Wednesday's order has few facts, no dates and no details.

In other words, a big nothing, little more than tactical symbolism on a cornerstone campaign promise. Operationally? Empty. Rather, what the occasion reveals is the inadequacy of such a barrier in securing our southern border — and the rest of our nation.

What it also reveals is Trump's consistent adherence to his unfortunate campaign platform: America as unwelcoming: anti-Muslim, anti-refugee, anti-immigrant

There's approximately 2,000 miles of border with Mexico, spread out between California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.

Trump is playing the bigotry card with his wall talk. His campaign statement that started him on a path from which he left no retreat:

When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending the best. They're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems. They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime. They're rapists and some, I assume, are good people, but I speak to border guards and they're telling us what we're getting.

Almost all of the Arizona's border has fences or walls.

Arizona’s border with Mexico stretches for 362 miles. Today, 306 of those miles have some kind of barrier, leaving only 56 miles with just barbed wire, or no fence at all.

The places that don't are mostly on Tohono O’Odham Nation land or in mountainous or extremely remote locations.

Border walls are bad for the environment, bad for wildlife, and dangerous to humans who try to get around them.

Prior projects have not gone well. In 2011, the OIG did an audit of the fence building and found CBP wasted $69 million on steel. After the report, the program was pulled. From the report:

Customs and Border Protection completed 299 miles of fence; however, it did not effectively manage the purchase and storage of steel in support of the Secure Border Initiative. It purchased steel based on an estimate before legally acquiring land or meeting international treaty obligations. In addition, it did not provide effective contract oversight during the project: it paid invoices late, did not reconcile invoices to receiving documents, and did not perform a thorough review of the contractor’s selection of a higher-priced subcontractor or document the reasons for its approval of the subcontractor. As a result, Customs and Border Protection purchased more steel than needed, incurred additional storage costs, paid interest on late payments, and approved a higher-priced subcontractor, resulting in additional expenditures of about $69 million that could have been put to better use.

Trump just wants to waste money. CNN reports:

The executive orders Trump signed Wednesday call for boosting the ranks of Border Patrol forces by an additional 5,000 agents as well as for 10,000 new Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers to carry out deportations. The orders noted that the increases were subject to Congress's appropriation of sufficient funds.

Trump and his under-informed supporters pretend there has been no attention placed on controlling the border with Mexico during the last 25 years. Baloney.

Suddenly, there hadn't been a bipartisan government effort over the last quarter-century to put in place an unprecedented array of walls, detection systems, and guards for that southern border. In those years, the number of Border Patrol agents had, in fact, quintupled from 4,000 to more than 21,000, while Customs and Border Protection became the largest federal law enforcement agency in the country with more than 60,000 agents. The annual budget for border and immigration enforcement ballooned from $1.5 billion to $19.5 billion, a more than twelvefold increase. By 2016, federal funding of border and immigration enforcement added up to $5 billion more than funding for all other federal law enforcement agencies combined.

Trump's wall is antiquated. Maybe because he has little experience using a computer, he's ignorant about how walls have been replaced by technology.

For all practical purposes, the "Great Wall" that Trump talks about may, by January 2017, be as antiquated as the Great Wall of China given the new high-tech surveillance methods now coming on the market. These are being developed in a major way and on a regular basis by a booming border techno-surveillance industry.

The 21st-century border is no longer just about walls—it's about biometrics and drones. It's about a "layered approach to national security," given that, as former Border Patrol chief Mike Fisher has put it, "the international boundary is no longer the first or last line of defense, but one of many."

He doesn't seem to have a clue about intelligence gathering and sharing. Has he even read CBP's vision for 2020 and 2025? Trump is mired in the 1980's.

How about the 2013 testimony to Congress by Secure Border Initiative Executive Director Mark Borkowski and Acting Chief of the Border Patrol Michael Fisher. Or the testimonies at the 2015 hearing, Securing the Border: Fencing, Infrastructure, and Technology Force Multipliers.

Here's an Arizona border town sheriff who says Trump's plan is a multi-billion dollar waste.

Trump's wall will do little to stem drugs. Most drugs come through ports of entry. (See, Drug Enforcement Administration, 2015 National Drug Threat Assessment Summary, October 2015, p. 3. )

Mexican TCOs transport the bulk of their drugs over the Southwest Border through ports of entry (POEs) using passenger vehicles or tractor trailers.

More airplanes and intelligence gathering, not physical barriers is what CBP says is needed.

Trump can't build a wall by executive order. It takes funding. There are engineering problems, environmental problems, problems with land owners, and a price tag of reportedly $20 billion.

But border security experts and former DHS and congressional officials said Wednesday that the project is a massive and difficult undertaking. In addition to the cost, they said, it would face engineering and environmental problems; fights with ranchers and others who don’t want to give up their land; and the huge topographical problems of the border, which runs through remote desert in Arizona and rugged mountains in New Mexico, as well as, for two-thirds of its length, along rivers.

His fight with landowners will take years to wind their way through the courts, preventing a wall from being built until they are done:

The Trump administration will have to contend with private ranchers, farmers and other property owners with land along the border. Just one-third of the border is made up of federal and tribal lands, according to a 2015 report by the Government Accountability Office, with private and state-owned lands making up the rest.

Go ahead and let him threaten to use eminent domain to take private land. The wall won't be built until the appeals process on all the lawsuits have ended -- years and years. By which time we'll have a new president who revokes his orders.

Trump's idea for a border wall is antiquated and ignorant, and we've been there, done that. Don't let him push your buttons. He's all bluster. And he doesn't have the power he thinks he does.

Donald Trump Grade: FAIL.

(If you disagree in comments, don't cite right wing news articles and other sources of false facts or your comment will be deleted. You can cite reputable news, congressional testimony and reports. While all points of view are allowed, you may not use comments to spread factual misinformation.)

< Taliban Leader Writes Donald Trump | Germany Repeals Law Prohibiting Criticism of Foreign Leaders >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    If Mexico were going to pay for a wall... (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by unitron on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 12:24:23 PM EST
    ...wouldn't they already be building it on their own side spending the money in their own country where it would benefit their own economy?

    Trump says will place 20% tax on (none / 0) (#11)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 03:08:14 PM EST
    goods imported from Mexico to pay for T***p's Folly. So says Sean Spicer. Are these alternative facts?

    If true, say hello to much more expensive cars and TVs and winter vegetables. Also, avocados. High-priced guacamole to build the wall.


    First they came for (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 03:24:45 PM EST
    the guacamole and tequila...

    Praise the lord... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 03:33:54 PM EST
    we grow all our own marijuana now...not that the sacrament was ever subject to the terms of the NAFTA agreement or bound by walls, drones, or stormtroopers on the imaginary line.

    First came the trade wars, (none / 0) (#18)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 03:56:36 PM EST
    and then shooting wars?  At his rambling speech at the CIA last Saturday, Trump said: " to the victor goes the spoils." As for the Iraq war, .."we should have kept the oil,"  maybe we will get another chance."

    It was unclear as to what Trump meant by that "another chance" to get the oil and there was no good clarification; most assumed it related to another invasion of Iraq. But, we import oil from Mexico, as well as other goods--Mexico being our second largest trading partners. Sounds off the wall, so to say, but then we are talking Trump.  


    That would constitute a violation of NAFTA. (none / 0) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 03:21:02 PM EST
    And whether he likes it or not, per the Senate's 1994 ratification, NAFTA's provisions carry the force and effect of federal law, until such time as Congress chooses to formally abrogate the agreement itself by a vote.

    Food (none / 0) (#15)
    by FlJoe on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 03:26:08 PM EST
    Fight! What fun, he is unilaterally going to start a major trade war over a  useless vanity project.

    He is well on the way to causing worldwide economic chaos, well played Putin, well played.


    So, in other words... (none / 0) (#16)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 03:32:18 PM EST
    Mexico isn't going to pay for the wall, we are.

    Another lie err... alternative fact.


    Sean Spicer... (none / 0) (#35)
    by desertswine on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 12:01:17 AM EST
    The Beautiful Wall (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 02:33:46 PM EST
    with the beautiful little door, may run into dead Scalia.  According to University of Chicago law professors, Scalia's 2015 opinion in Michigan v EPA that blocked an EPA rule that would have limited mercury emissions from power plants was based on the Clean Air Act language that instructed the EPA to issue regulations that were "appropriate and necessary" meaning EPA was required to consider costs, and no regulation is appropriate if it does more harm than good.

    Trump is apparently relying on the Secure Fence Act of 2006 to build the Wall, which only authorizes actions that are "necessary and appropriate," bringing into play Scalia's cost-benefit jurisprudence.  

    So, what are the benefits of the Wall?  It will not keep many aliens out. No matter how high, it will not stop tunneling underground, and the wall will not stop a majority of unlawful immigrants who enter the US on visas that they overstay.

    The economic gains from reducing illegal immigration are not greater than the cost of the wall, and the effects may be zero or negative.

    The claim that the Wall would keep out illegal immigrants who commit violent crimes is not backed by data that show that the rate of crimes of illegal immigrants is significantly higher than citizens.  Courts would have to hold that the crime-related benefits are substantial enough to justify the cost of the Wall.

    Trump says that Mexico will pay for the Wall, implying that the cost will be zero. But the statute does not authorize Trump to charge Mexico and Mexico says it will not pay.

    The costs of the Wall are estimated by Trump as $8 billion.  More realistic estimates are between $15 to 25 billion, with half a billion per year in upkeep.

    Legal standing would be satisfied for many, for example, for farmers in the Rio Grande Valley on the ground that the Wall would disrupt their water access, or for the state of California if it felt the wall hurts its citizens.

    In response to a legal suit, Trump will need to drop the bluster and present a case as to why the Wall does more good than harm. A fact-based cost/benefit to prove it.  However, Trump's announcement of the Wall, should put to rest the notion that Trump should not be taken literally.
    Trump's words and actions are equally bizarro and the Republicans, the equally bizarro enablers, second his emotions.

    I'm laughing (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 05:08:53 AM EST
    at Trump. However the new message from the Ministry of Truth is that Trump has a "secret plan" to pay for the wall.

    Paul Ryan has announced that Congress (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 01:13:21 PM EST
    will appropriate the money to pay for T**p's Folly and get the money from Mexico later.

    Per Speaker Ryan, the bill can be passed within the next few months.

    Can we, please, now put to rest the claims that Paul Ryan is a "Reasonable Republican", a "Serious Thinker", an "Intellectual Conservative"?

    He is a political hack. And even worse, he is a rank opportunist who has no qualms about helping T**P destroy the country if it means Ryan can realize his long-held dream of destroying Medicare and Social Security.

    If you did not vote for Hillary Clinton this is on you.


    So sorry for all the BOLD (none / 0) (#6)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 01:15:51 PM EST
    in that comment. No idea where it came from.

    Next time, use dashes rather than asterisks. (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 03:16:02 PM EST
    In HTML formatting, it's your multiple use of asterisks in a row which caused the bolding. And if you look again at your post, you'll notice that your second use of multiple asterisks stopped it. Had you done it again for a third time, it would have also bolded the font from that point forward.

    The ability (none / 0) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 02:05:08 PM EST
    to fleece the GOP base seems to be limitless. From what I have read the wall is going to take years to build like long after Trump is gone. It includes Native American land in which the Native Americans are saying they do not want a wall on their land and terrain where construction equipment cannot go even until roads are cut.

    And yes, I long ago accepted the fact that Ryan was a hack. However maybe the VSP in Washington will now have that fact hit them over the head.


    They're now trying to walk it all back. (none / 0) (#19)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 05:44:46 PM EST
    But the damage is done. Trump and his advisors clearly didn't understand the implications of a proposed country-specific 20% tariff slapped on Mexico, in terms of either economic or trade policies, and obviously didn't realize just how explosive the whole thing was.

    Heavens to Mergatroid, these people are like spoiled children playing with a loaded gun. And you're right -- the ones who are ultimately responsible for this disaster in the making are those who voted for either Trump or a third party candidate.



    Show me a 50 foot wall (none / 0) (#2)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 10:40:22 AM EST
    and I'll sell you a 51 foot ladder. And per Ron White:

    "the wall between Mexico and the United States is the dumbest idea I've ever heard in my entire life. Do you have any idea how good the Mexican people are at digging tunnels?"

    Mexican President Peña Nieto has just ... (none / 0) (#4)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 12:49:27 PM EST
    ... cancelled next week's planned state visit to Washington, indicating that his country views this particular matter as nothing less than a bald national affront.

    President* Trump further signed that executive order on the very day Mexican Foreign Minister Luis Videgaray arrived in Washington to begin NAFTA-related trade talks with his U.S. counterparts, which must now be viewed as nothing less than a calculated public insult directed toward our heretofore friendly southern neighbor.

    And as if out of thin air, an incredibly arrogant Trump has manufactured a wholly unnecessary diplomatic brouhaha with Mexico, when one needn't even exist. It simply remains to be seen whether or not our new regime in Washington -- and it deserves to be called a regime, and not merely an administration -- chooses to escalate this matter into a full-blown international crisis.

    Stay tuned.

    I wonder (none / 0) (#7)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 01:40:14 PM EST
    ...who they will get to do the construction.  I live 500 miles from the border, and construction here is done by short, brown men who speak limited English.  Pretty sure the same holds true nearer the border, IOW the kind of people the wall is an insult to.

    Already bidding (none / 0) (#20)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 05:46:31 PM EST
    An Israeli company credited with building the defense barrier that crowns the Gaza Strip has signaled its interest in helping construct a controversial border wall proposed by US Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump, according to a report published by Bloomberg News on Tuesday.

    Saar Koursh, owner of Magal Security Systems Ltd., told Bloomberg in an interview last month that his expertise in constructing security barriers in Israel and across the globe could help bring the candidate's proposal into reality.

    "We would join forces with a major US defense company that has experience with such projects worldwide," said Koursh, who spoke to Bloomberg while accompanying Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to Africa on a diplomatic mission in early July. "We've done it in the past, and we would definitely want to do it.

    Wait (none / 0) (#23)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 07:04:19 PM EST
    An Israeli company credited with building the defense barrier that crowns the Gaza Strip has signaled its interest in helping construct a controversial border wall proposed by US Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump, according to a report published by Bloomberg News on Tuesday.

    Are you saying that we are going to import thousands of ISRAELIS to do jobs here in the United States?  What about the East Germans?  Didn't they put up a pretty good wall?  Will this get the GOP votes from the construction trades?

    You have to admit, the idea of a wall is insane, the construction is a nightmare and will cost far more than they claim, and we haven't even seen peak insanity on this subject.  

    Help me here.  Do you agree that Mr. Tr*mp is insane and that he is making the situation worse?

    Or do you think he is a level-headed, crafty negotiator who believes that lying and having people hate him is a good tactic, and that this wall is a great idea?

    Or any other explanation for what looks to normal people like insanity.  


    Me thinks Saar the Shameless... (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 08:24:39 AM EST
    won't be the last international opportunist looking to loot the treasury by taking advantage of Trump's buffoonery.

    This chump is very susceptible to shiny objects and a good spiel full of alterna-facts.


    Undocumented border crossings... (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 02:22:31 PM EST
    at a 40 year low, record deportations by the Obama administration...old school facts would indicate the "immigrant problem" (or lack there of) is taking care of itself.

    But Trump heard from a guy whose cousin's ex-wife said it's a huuuge problem and that's an alternative fact Jack...so we need a 500 billion dollar wall, obviously.

    I just had (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 06:43:14 PM EST
    a discussion with someone who lived almost their entire life on the border and she said that a wall is the stupidest thing ever. Drones and border patrol are way more effective and even if you build a wall you're STILL going to have to pay for border patrol and drones. And she said the tax is going to make things worse and there's going to be more people attempting to cross the border. How one person can screw up so much in one week is a sight to behold.

    It always (none / 0) (#22)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 06:58:30 PM EST
    Was going to be drones, more border patrol, and The Wall.
    That was never in doubt.
    A physical presence , the wall, in the areas most prone to illegal crossings.
    There will be less people trying to cross, Catch and Release is no longer used either.

    And I am not talking fishing


    That was never in doubt (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 08:12:00 PM EST
    You're sure about this.

    I thought we weren't supposed to take Trump literally. In same way that his supporters with penetrating insight, knew enough not to take him literally.


    Yes, I'm sure (none / 0) (#26)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 08:16:48 PM EST
    The bosses are not immigrants (none / 0) (#24)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 07:13:52 PM EST
    Americans have always had the opportunity to pick lettuce for ten hours a day, for $4 an hour, with no benefits or worker's comp protection.  Yet millions of white folks prefer to sit around and collect food stamps and unemployment and medicare and Social Security, even though they could easily get jobs picking lettuce.  You don't even need a high school diploma, just the willingness to work, which apparently the native born lack.

    Please tell me why native born Americans don't want those jobs, which American employers GIVE AWAY to undocumented immigrants.  If we didn't GIVE AWAY lettuce picking jobs to furriners, Americans would have these $4/hr jobs.

    I say we DEMAND that lettuce be picked by citizens.  If no one steps up, then we need to make it illegal NOT to pick lettuce.


    State    Hourly mean wage
    California    $16.35

    ...for CA ag workers... (none / 0) (#48)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 04:05:54 PM EST
    So that would be (none / 0) (#61)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 09:56:58 AM EST
      State    Hourly mean wage
        California    $16.35

    Do you subscribe to the fiction that undocumented, exploited workers are paid by check through a payroll company?

    Because they aren't.

    It must be nice in your world.  I wish I could live there too.


    Fair enough, looked around more: (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 11:03:23 AM EST
    In 2008 demographer Rick Mines conducted a survey of 120,000 migrant farm workers in California from indigenous communities in Mexico - Mixtecos, Triquis, Purepechas and others. "One third of the workers earned above the minimum wage, one third reported earning exactly the minimum and one third reported earning below the minimum," he found.

    troubles melt like lemon drops (none / 0) (#62)
    by jondee on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 10:03:40 AM EST
    way above the chimney tops

    Last I heard (none / 0) (#63)
    by jondee on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 10:14:49 AM EST
    roughly a third of farm workers in California make less than the national  minimum hourly wage.

    I did it for awhile back in the early eighties and most of the time the inexperienced ones, like me, were lucky if we ended up getting minimum wage.

    The only time we got paid "well" was one time when a farmer's field was flooded and we had to get all his squash out before it rotted. No rubber boots provided and we all ended up with trench foot.


    The wall is a complete (none / 0) (#27)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 08:35:27 PM EST
    farce. It just another carnival act from the PT Barnum of politics.

    Do you realize how long it would take the wall to built even if such a venture were attempted? I don't know but estimates run about 10 years. Then there's the topography and easements to purchase and a Native American tribe that doesn't want a wall on their land. These Trump fools think that it's going to be like building a wall in your neighborhood and it will be up in like a year or so.

    Maybe he should have his BFF Putin build it since he's probably got extensive training in walls from the KGB.


    Maybe that is the goal? (none / 0) (#28)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 08:49:51 PM EST
    Donald Trump and his incendiary but essentially meaningless border wall talk and executive order do nothing but push people's buttons.


    Why are the relations between Donald Trump and the press so bad? There are two reasons. One is that Trump is a Republican, and the press consists overwhelmingly of Democrats. But the other reason is that Trump likes it this way, because when the press is constantly attacking him over trivialities, it strengthens his position and weakens the press. Trump's "outrageous" statements and tweets aren't the product of impulsiveness, but part of a carefully maintained strategy that the press is too impulsive to resist.

    trump almost (none / 0) (#29)
    by linea on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 09:10:54 PM EST
    HAD to say wall.

    every election, disengenous republican candidates lied to their base and promised that they would secure the southern border with additional patrols and a security fence.


    Good grief (none / 0) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 09:22:07 PM EST
    He sent the Neo Nazi out the other day to whine about the press.

    And Glenn Reynolds completely missed it. Trump was gas lighting the press for a long time but now they have finally caught onto his act and the whole act of his entire administration. Too late smart though because the entire country is going to suffer because they couldn't do all this before the election.

    Pushing buttons is what narcissists do to get attention. Glenn needs to study up on NPD to realize what is going on here and why Trump brings actors and staff members to cheer for him at events.


    Obviously (none / 0) (#36)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 05:43:05 AM EST
    The press hasn't caught on.
    They are still eating it up.

    I'm sorry (none / 0) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 06:30:25 AM EST
    but when the Q poll says your approval is 36% Glenn is shopping "alternative facts". Baa waa waa. The only people who think like you and Glenn are the cultists who think that a tax on imports is something Mexico is going to have to pay.

    ... be paid by the consumer and not the seller. High tariffs effectively discourage us from buying goods imported from targeted countries.

    Trump is feigning craziness and incompetence (none / 0) (#31)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 09:35:45 PM EST
    as a strategy; like Claudius during the reign of Caligula?

    I rather doubt it.

    Reynolds apologetic for Trump reminds me of the kid who goes ass-over-teacup on his bicycle and then says "I meant to do that".

    If the Reynolds of the world can't stop Trump from acting like a loose canon and press from reporting on it, the only move left is to spin his behavior as the operation of a master political strategist.

    Anything but be forced to admit you bet on a horse with the blind staggers.


    Caligula (none / 0) (#45)
    by MKS on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 11:28:26 AM EST
    I like the comparison.

    First he says... (none / 0) (#32)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 09:46:03 PM EST
    Why are the relations between Donald Trump and the press so bad? There are two reasons.

    And then, as if to prove that he is a tool and not worth the wasted electrons that carry his failure to think, he posits the completely wrong reasons, which pretty nearly everyone who DOESN'T write opinion columns knows.

    The press hates Donald Trump first, because he hates them, insults them, lies to them and kept them penned up at his rallies so his supporters could pelt them with rotten fruit.  He calls them names and accuses them of things that are not true.  This is not the Dale Carnegie method.

    Second, even though the press is in the tank, Trump makes it uncomfortably obvious by telling lies so blatant that no one can justify them, and that shows them up.  Like Pro Rasslin' you're not suppose to admit it's rigged.  After papering over Bush 43, they are being FORCED to admit that the Emperor has no clothes.

    Trevor, thanks for pointing out the moronic failure on the part of that writer.  Stupidity like his explains why conservatism is such a disaster.


    And now Bannon is demonizing (none / 0) (#33)
    by jondee on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 09:52:24 PM EST
    the Free Press like a paranoid Bolshevik, or a leader of the ascendent National Socialist Party.

    Once again (none / 0) (#37)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 05:47:06 AM EST
    It does what its supposed to.

    Keep eating it up.

    Although Jake Tapper might be getting it, when he covered it, he stated what Bannon said, and then ignored it, no wailing  and moaning, just quiet.



    "What it's supposed to do"? (none / 0) (#43)
    by Yman on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 10:13:43 AM EST
    It's "supposed to" drive his approval ratings all the way up to 36%?  Demonizing the press and using "alternate facts" nasty work with an ignorant base,  but eventually you have to face reality.

    Can you say buyer's remorse?


    No, it drives them to 55% (none / 0) (#49)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 04:23:57 PM EST
    Latest 2 polls

    Rasmussen 55%   45%

    Gallup  45%   48%


    Who ya gonna believe? (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by jondee on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 10:34:09 AM EST
    Quinnipiac has Trump at 36%.

    Let me get this straight (none / 0) (#50)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 05:01:28 PM EST
    Latest 2 polls

    Rasmussen 55%   45%

    Gallup  45%   48%

    Is it possible that you actually SUPPORT the temporary occupant of the White House?

    I presume you are aware that he is unintelligent, unpatriotic, certifiably insane and mean, and that he has no redeeming social value.

    Right?  I want you to be clear on this, so I may assess any future posts on the basis of whether you support him or, like every other patriotic American, that you are ashamed and appalled by the Orange buffoon.

    Which are you, a patriot or an admirer of Tr*mp?


    I supported neither (none / 0) (#51)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 07:28:06 PM EST
    of the 2 main party candidates for President, and voted for McMullin.

    And he is now our President, and his histrionics and outbursts are embarrassing.

    But I do like some of where government policy is heading,

    So I watch , and shake my head often, and applaud some policy decisions, all in the same day, as The Donald never sleeps.

    I do hope that he grows tired of hitting buttons, purposely, I believe, because the American public, even those that support the policy changes , will grow tired of his ADD.


    This (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 12:28:31 AM EST
    voted for McMullin.

    So you DID vote for Trump.  Explain why you wanted a lunatic in the WH.  

    Is there something about this man's dishonesty and hatred of women that got you to give him another vote?  Because I really want to know why you wanted him to be president.

    You didn't even care enough about your country to cast a meaningful vote.


    The guy (none / 0) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 09:01:01 PM EST
    has NPD. He's never going to quit doing what he's doing and one day Republicans will grow up and realize this. Trump is 70 years old. He is NOT GOING TO CHANGE. Expect this past disastrous week to be repeated over and over again. The fact that he surrounds himself with sycophants is only going to keep it going longer than most people want.

    He's your and the GOP's responsibility. You created this monster and he's going to eat all of you along with the rest of the country. Too bad you didn't think about the rest of the country when you spent your time here attempting to gas light everybody.

    Evan McMullan is part of the resistance. He's admonishing people like you to grow up and join the resistance simply because he I guess actually cares if the GOP survives as a national party unlike you.


    Hahahahahahaha .... (none / 0) (#53)
    by Yman on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 10:20:53 PM EST
    Did you really just cite Rasmussen to claim that Trump has a 55% approval rating?

    Can't tell if you're trying to be funny or not.


    Don't like the results? (none / 0) (#55)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 05:12:23 AM EST
    Go right to the playbook!!
    Alinsky Rules, mock them!!!!

    Or you could try the Huffington Post aggregate of 8 polls from 7 pollsters, updated 1 day ago

    50 % Job approval, 46.5 % disapprove



    It's the source (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Yman on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 10:22:38 AM EST
    Rassmussen is a joke.  C+ rating on 538 with a record of relying on dubious sampling and questions, that skew so Republican that some polling aggregates offer "Rassmussen-free maps".  He was also a paid consultant for the Bush campaign.

    But you knew that.

    But hey ... if you include Rasmussen's results in the aggregate, he almost has a majority approval rating during his honeymoon period, the historic high point of presidential approval ratings.



    Root, (none / 0) (#56)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 06:31:41 AM EST
    Root, Root for your home team, Trevor.

    Or (none / 0) (#58)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 07:55:15 AM EST
    You could list the 8 most recent polls

    As The Trump suck up website Huffington Post did

    The truth will set you free


    Which (none / 0) (#59)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 08:17:01 AM EST
    alternate truth is that, the million+ invisible people that showed up at the inauguration or the 3 million imaginary illegal voters who showed up in November 4? No matter what the polls say Trump continues to be a either a serial liar or a deluded fabulist, pick your poison.

    BTW: as a point of analysis the HP aggregate appears to be heavily skewed by the latest Rasmussen poll(always notoriously right leaning) which is obviously an outlier, giving Trump +10 approval over virtually every other recent poll.


    Conservatives (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 08:32:37 AM EST
    have been creating fake polls to skew polling averages. So creating alternative polls with alternative facts to create an alternative reality.

    Baa waa (none / 0) (#57)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 07:49:29 AM EST
    we now have alternative facts along with alternative polling. Rasmussen has been known to produce fake polling in the past.

    Take all the polls together Gallup as the high at 44 and CBS as the low and you get right around where the Q poll is polling maybe a point or two higher around 38 or 39. Trump's support is basically the hardcore GOP base which is around 39%.

    Minority presidents are always going to have a hard time with approval ratings since they never got the majority of voters on board in the first place.


    Was wondering why ... (none / 0) (#66)
    by Yman on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 10:35:34 AM EST
    ... you would choose the HP aggregate with an unrated pollster (Morning Consult) pulling up the results along with Rassmussen.  Figured out why pretty quickly - Trump (even with Rasmsussen's help) is only up by 0.1% in the RCP aggregate (44.3/44.2).

    During his honeymoon ...


    Who is "it?" (none / 0) (#44)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 10:42:35 AM EST
    It does what its supposed to.

    Wow, we're going all "Silence of the Lambs" here, people are now referred to as "it."

    Bannon is a HE, not an "it."  And yes, Bannon DOES what he is "supposed to" do, which is to lie and insult patriotic Americans.

    We agree that Bannon is "supposed to" lie to the press and embarrass his boss and the entire country.  Question, is, WHY is he "supposed to do" this?  It's the kind of question only a conservative can answer, and they don't seem eager to do so.


    Why did they outsource (none / 0) (#68)
    by jondee on Sat Jan 28, 2017 at 11:10:01 AM EST
    their latest Watergate break-in to the Russians?

    Because, like ISIS, they're on a mission from God -- not to establish the caliphate, but to hollow out "Big Government", cut taxes for the rich, ban abortion, and hand a blank check to the Pentagon.

    When you're on a mission from God, the gloves come off.


    Gee, two Trumpanzees (none / 0) (#46)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 01:54:30 PM EST
    advising us to stop talking about Trump's unfitness and craziness.

    Not to speak for others, but I suspect we'll continue to go with our gut instincts on this one.


    Trump can't play chess (none / 0) (#34)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 26, 2017 at 10:50:58 PM EST
    Let alone 11th dimensional chess.   Trump's false, outrageous, offensive statements and tweets are simply a reflection of who he (and his base) is.

    No maybe (none / 0) (#39)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 08:02:53 AM EST
    about it, that is the goal, that is the problem. We have a president who's number one job appears to be "pushing peoples buttons", that's lunacy.

    Renyold's  main point seems to be that the press should flat out ignore the lunacy because it somehow enables and encourages him. While this is actually correct up to a point, by definition the press can and should not ignore the words an actions of the president.

    Maybe Trump is gaslighting the press, but Glen ignores the fact that he is definitely gaslighting the public, and that is  the story that should be headlined, from now until he stops.


    Can you or Glenn marshall (none / 0) (#41)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 27, 2017 at 08:48:12 AM EST
    one scintilla of evidence that the press reporting and analyzing Trump's words and actions, "strengthens his position"?