Trump's Many Failures

Vanity Fair reports on Trump's campaign, which has morphed from free-fall to the hospice phase:

As Wisconsin radio host Charlie Sykes summed up Bannon’s appointment: “Trump’s campaign has now entered the Hospice Phase. He knows he’s dying and wants to surround himself with his loved ones.”

The New York Times has a new report on Trump's finances: Trump’s Empire: A Maze of Debts and Opaque Ties. His companies are $650 million in debt and have shadowy backers.

The Chicago Sun-Times has this article on the Trump International Tower in Chicago, and how the commercial space in the 92 floor tower hasn't been leased since it was built in 2008. [More...]

A central premise of GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump’s pitch to voters is that his business success qualifies him for the Oval Office — but his years-long effort to rent retail space at the base of Trump’s namesake tower in Chicago has been a total failure.

Trump and his three children (Donald Jr, Eric and Ivanka) were all involved in the project. The article quotes from a brief filed by a Trump Organization law firm with the Cook County assessor, outlining why the commercial project was such a failure.

Trump International Hotel and Tower is a gleaming 92-story glass building at 401 N. Wabash Ave., along the Chicago River and just west of Michigan Avenue. Giant letters spell out Trump’s name on the riverfront side of the building.

...About 70,000 square feet of space on the terrace and riverwalk levels has never been rented since the building opened in 2008. That means Trump’s organization each year leaves potentially millions of rent dollars on the table, as the vacant space generates no revenue

The Washington Post, in an article about Hillary planning her White House agenda, has this to say about Trump:

Trump, who also has a transition team at work, trails by double digits in some national polls. No candidate in more than 60 years has come back to win after being so far behind at this point in the general-election campaign. Trump also is losing in surveys taken in battleground states where he is staking his campaign. Among those states is Virginia, where he has a 14-point deficit, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll published in the past week.

The latest Trump campaign shake-ups, including the appointment of a new campaign manager who is an extremely annoying, uber-right-wing, Clinton-hating, "Coulter clone" from the 90's, with no experience running a campaign, and who has been stuck in a time-warp for 20 years ranting about Paula Jones and Clinton's infidelity, and the head of a right-wing online news outfit as campaign CEO, is further scaring even die-hard Republicans. The New York Daily News today suggests he's planning on self-destructing in the biggest way possible.

Make America great again — by lighting a match and flicking it into the dumpster of a floundering campaign.

< Mexican Media Report El Chapo's Son Freed, Back in Sinaloa | Sunday Night Open Thread >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    I don't agree (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 03:25:25 PM EST
    ...with the Post that Trump is trying to throw the election.  I believe he is incompetent on every possible level.  Occam's Razor suggests that what appears to be incompetence, really is incompetence.

    This candidacy is the distillation of the process that brought us Ronald Reagan, taken to its logical extreme. The primary difference is that Reagan knew how to take orders from his superiors, while Trump doesn't admit that anyone is superior in any respect.

    Donald is famously on record (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 03:59:38 PM EST
    As saying you should never hire anyone smarter than you.   Which explains a lot.

    Little more context (none / 0) (#6)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 04:32:05 PM EST
    Although he did break that rule with his daughter.
    He does believe in having great people around him, but as the true narcissist that he is, he just thinks he is smarter.

    Trump told CNBC host Erin Burnett that he believes in having "great people" around him but feels it is important that those people be less intelligent than he is. "You have to keep great people around you," Trump said. "You have to motivate them. You always have to be on top of them. And you have to be smarter than they are. I hear so many times, `Oh, I want my people to be smarter than I am.' It's a lot of crap. You want to be smarter than your people, if possible".

    How smart, actually, is anyone ... (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 05:14:48 PM EST
    ... who chooses to listen to Trump and join him in common cause?

    trump (none / 0) (#8)
    by linea on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 05:37:02 PM EST
    clearly did serious research and had experts put together a valid populist sort of paleo-conservative platform. i have no idea how much of that prepared-platform he really believes but it's clear to me his intent was to win.

    I agree (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 06:49:24 PM EST
    It's the ideology the GOP has been embracing for decades. There's really nothing different about Trump than the rest of the GOP candidates. Trump is just loud and proud.

    Gotta say (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 03:07:07 PM EST
    Of all the crazy stuff in this election cycle watching Rudy gleefully torch any tiny remaining shreads of credibility he might have left is among the best.

    The media "fails to point out several signs of illness by her; all you gotta do is go online," Giuliani said, before being interrupted by host Shannon Bream, who pointed out that Clinton's campaign has said there is no factual evidence to support those claims.
    "Go online and put down 'Hillary Clinton illness,' take a look at the videos yourself," Giuliani continued.

    Just to be clear, the point of this comment is to point out that Rudy is an idiot and what he said on FOX news is laughably stupid.

    A friend (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 04:24:44 PM EST
    in NY says the entire state of NY is onto his game so he's desperate for something. That's the reason for him completely torching any credibility he had. Though I have to say torching himself nationally has been a delight to watch.

    Let's talk perjury (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by jbindc on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 07:42:27 AM EST
    No, not the stuff the Reupblican troglodyte torch-bearers are beating the drum about Hillary Clinton....I'm talking about allegations of perjury against Trump  - Melania Trump

    No (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by FlJoe on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 10:57:45 AM EST
    failure (of grifting) here
    Trump nearly quintupled the monthly rent his presidential campaign pays for its headquarters at Trump Tower to $169,758 in July, when he was raising funds from donors, compared with March, when he was self-funding his campaign, according to a Huffington Post review of Federal Election Commission filings. The rent jumped even though he was paying fewer staff in July than he did in March.

    Nothing quite like (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by CoralGables on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 02:28:46 PM EST
    leasing your empty space to your empty staff at a premium rate to pay yourself.

    Sykes is the worst (none / 0) (#1)
    by Towanda on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 09:56:51 AM EST
    of the squawk radio talkers, and before that, also entirely lacking in integrity as a journalist (and as a human).  

    Those of us who have been subjected for decades to how he has lead the way in the GOP in destroying Wisconsin cannot stomach this current lionization of him by others in media, just for being anti-Trump -- both mainstream and social media.  That reflects as poorly on the leftwing media as on the rightwing media.

    The Sun Times article is a must read (none / 0) (#2)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 11:56:53 AM EST
    If for no other reason, it uses Trump's own admissions as to why the tower is unleaseable and it should give pause to those who think he is a comptetant developer.

    Trump is just a hotel developer (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 01:27:45 PM EST
    who has ridden his father' coattails. He has only had one successful project where his father did not co-sign or guarantee debt.

    Trump's father did not just loan him money in the beginning but also provided financial backing throughout by among other things signing guarantees for Trump's projects.


    Does anyone have an answer for ... (none / 0) (#9)
    by christinep on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 06:18:19 PM EST
    the LA Times/Dornsife polling enigma/outlier/and only "pollster" showing Trump ahead by 2 points now?  While I realize that the operation--which uses a static universe of about 3000 individuals over some months now--is new/untried and continuously justifying its methodology via the Times, does anyone have any knowledge about What Gives?  (At this stage, obviously, anything makes me edgy and jumpy ... so, I'm banking on this being the case here.)

    Take a look at (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 03:48:16 PM EST
    the article on the latest polls at Five Thirty-Eight.  Goes into detail about the difference between this poll and others. If I recall correctly, the conclusion is that the poll may correctly point to an upward trend on a national poll level toward Trump, but the State polls go in the opposite direction generally (except latest polls in Iowa & Nevada, which have only 6 electoral votes each), and show HRC with a comfortable lead in the projected Electoral College vote.

    I sometimes (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 04:19:05 PM EST
     worry about a repeat of the summer of 1988, when Michael Dukakis polled ahead of Daddy Bush by 10 points. Bush's Rasputin, Lee Atwater, was reported to have told the vice president that if he didn't get down (further) in the muck, he would lose.

     Bush did not want to lose, hence, the Willie Horton ads and its appeal to racists.  And, the exploitation of Dukakis' position on capital punishment (his emotionless analysis of the debate question on,..what if his wife were raped, a non-capital offense), all brought Bush to running ahead by late August. And, on to victory.

    Probably, an historic lesson for Trump to hire the Breitbart right wing extremist to try to bail him out.  But, there are important differences.  Trump has already gone where Bush, initially, feared to tread. Indeed, Trump started out there and already has the worst of the electorate in his clutches.

      And, Dukakis was not really well known outside of MA, and time did not permit him to effectively counter the negatives thrown at him.  Or, felt, mistakenly, that it was needed.  Once, confidence in Dukakis was shaken, albeit so unfairly, it became reasonable to fall back on the known quantity, the sitting vice president and former candidate for president.

    The Clinton campaign is not the Dukakis campaign, and Trump is not Bush. Indeed, Trump's unfitness for the presidency has been etched in the minds of most of the electorate and is settling in. Of course, there will be a tightening of national polls, but Trump is marked for what he is, despite his expressed regrets for something or other and the already donned right wing extremism.


    Plus: I doubt that Ailes can pull off an (none / 0) (#48)
    by christinep on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 05:28:42 PM EST
    Atwater in this atmosphere.

    that's not how it's done (smile) (none / 0) (#10)
    by linea on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 06:24:06 PM EST
    it's by state and electoral votes. trump cant win. he would need to flip FL, Ohio, N.C., and Iowa. thats not realistic.

    No answer (none / 0) (#12)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 07:28:27 PM EST
    It is a new and interesting polling technique, but as to accuracy, that will be determined after election day.
    Trump has narrowed Clintons lead somewhat in national polls (but that was expected) , but the state polls show no path for Trump in the Electoral College.
    Still over 2 months to go, too early to tell anything , outside events may always intrude upon the election.

    Wasn't McCain ahead until he suspended his campaign due to the financial crisis.

    Madame Sec just has to play it safe and let Trump be Trump, he is bound to insult some segment of the electorate soon.

    Unless the Trump kids really did duct tape their father to a chair in Trump Tower, and sent a impostor out on the campaign trail.


    It would have to be gilded duct tape (none / 0) (#25)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 10:02:56 AM EST
    The Donald wouldn't accept adhesion by anything cheap.

    i love (none / 0) (#59)
    by linea on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 10:20:33 PM EST
    the "trump kids." every one of them, i especially love ivanka and her personal tweets and #WomenWhoWork. but to be non-partisan, i like Chelsea too (and not just because ivanka likes her). the donald really blew this. he just isnt presidential. it makes me feel really sad. i would have LOVED to day-dream about being ivanka stopping at a posh wine bar with friends and an entourage of very serious men in black suits (secret service) being very serious. awesome!!

    what's not to love? (none / 0) (#72)
    by ding7777 on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 12:28:26 PM EST
    Trump's Sons Awesome At Killing Elephants And Other Wildlife.

    and Ivanka (the working woman's champion) from unpaid interns to providing no paid maternity leave


    ok (none / 0) (#82)
    by linea on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 07:39:01 PM EST
    im not a fan of hunting. but a lot of men do that. including democrats.

    Don't be sexist (none / 0) (#83)
    by TrevorBolder on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 07:40:48 PM EST
    Women hunt too



    I believe the point (none / 0) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 07:41:29 PM EST
    Is more about hunting endangered species.

    Could be wrong.  


    Could be wrong (3.00 / 3) (#85)
    by TrevorBolder on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 07:49:36 PM EST
    But don't those legal trophy hunters usually pay obscenely large fees which then help support the wildlife refuges for those endangered species?

    Sick practice (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 11:52:09 AM EST
    For little men. Not many women hunt exotic big game in Africa.

    Photo safaris would do just fine. Especially if one could not kill endangered big game.


    Killing elephants? (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 11:53:33 AM EST
    Yeah that is all about getting food.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 07:52:14 PM EST
    That'll fly.

    John Oliver (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 21, 2016 at 10:39:44 PM EST
    says Donald should become a hero by dropping out and telling the country his entire  candidacy was a stunt to expose the flaws in the system.

    If it was up I would link.  Look for it.  Priceless.

    Here's the video (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 02:47:25 PM EST
    Trump's failures (none / 0) (#15)
    by NycNate on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 06:10:02 AM EST
    Every successful businessman has them. I've had them. Interestingly enough, I've heard people say he would have done better by investing in an index fund. That strategy alone requires you to accept the failures in the basket of stocks.

    Show me a man with no failures and I'll show you a man with no successes.

    Looking at Trump's failures with a real estate eye. Chicago and Atlantic City are cities with quite a few troubles. Many businessmen have failed in those two cities.  I read about the unleased commercial place in Chicago.  My take: No developer builds a building where the profit is contingent on one unit. In fact, I think Trump us having a similar issue with the building he's building in DC.

    I wouldn't attack Trump on his business acumen. There are lots of NFL/NBA athletes that are broke from failed real estate ventures.

    Comparing (none / 0) (#17)
    by FlJoe on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:39:05 AM EST
    Trump with pro athletes who, for the most part, have zero business training, is damning him with faint praise. I wouldn't expect Trump to be able to shoot a three pointer, but he should be wide open for criticism for his business "acumen" which his only claim to fame.

    Have you ever did a "net worth" (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 08:05:38 AM EST
    analysis? Or had one done? If you ever made a large purchase the lending entity did one whether you knew it or not.

    In case you haven't, what you do is write down your assets and their worth and then you write down debts, total each group, subtract and you have your net worth.

    There are other considerations, such as cash flow, how much you are making, good will, which is how likely you will keep your cash flow, etc., and other points but that's a quick look at it.

    So when you criticize Trump's business success, try to know what you are writing about.


    That's not (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 08:39:37 AM EST
    Trump's problem. His problem is he stiffed so many small businesses and blue collar workers out of money.

    Besides who the heck knows what is net worth is or isn't since he won't release his tax returns?


    An income tax return (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 09:03:32 AM EST
    doesn't tell you anything about net worth.

    OTOH, it can show someone donating a million dollars to their own foundation and taking a deduction...

    Can you say H i l l a r y ??


    Supporting (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 09:10:07 AM EST
    your own foundation is bad? Trump used his foundation to fleece people like you.

    You know nothing about corporate income taxes if you don't think they tell you anything. If you are incorporated you must file a balance sheet as part of your tax returns. If you don't understand what a balance sheet is then google it and read up on the subject.


    When you write off (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:36:29 PM EST
    the contribution on your taxes it is no longer a contribution...

    In fact, someone else had to make up the difference.

    And they aren't "corporate" income taxes, they are his.


    You apparently (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 01:00:45 PM EST
    don't know anything about taxes. Contributions to non profits are considered contributions.

    The Clintons pay 1/3 of their income in taxes. Your party wants to make it so that they don't pay any taxes. You look like a fool complaining about them taking deductions yet paying way more than the majority of Republicans think they should be paying in taxes. If you think it's a zero sum game on taxes then the people you vote for want you carry a much larger share of the tax burden in this country.


    When you (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 02:55:13 PM EST
    are writing off payments to your own foundation, and traveling first class paid for by you and when the foundation is a convenient parking place for past and future employees...well...look what happens:

    The Clinton family's mega-charity took in more than $140 million in grants and pledges in 2013 but spent just $9 million on direct aid.

    The group spent the bulk of its windfall on administration, travel, and salaries and bonuses, with the fattest payouts going to family friends.

    Nice work if you can get it....lol


    Yes (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 02:58:32 PM EST
    a cut and paste from conspiracy sites. Good work Jim.

    No link, no credibility (none / 0) (#49)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 05:42:18 PM EST
    Or maybe disclosing the source of the article would show how false it is.

    Oh gee (none / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 10:05:56 PM EST
    Yep, right wing (none / 0) (#74)
    by MKS on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 03:40:15 PM EST
    Nice lies (none / 0) (#51)
    by Yman on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 06:07:59 PM EST
    If you can convince anyone to buy that silly, rightwing garbage.

    Shining a little light (none / 0) (#52)
    by Yman on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 06:17:33 PM EST
    ... on your silly, little smears:

    Where Does Clinton Foundation Money Go?

    Another philanthropy watchdog, CharityWatch, a project of the American Institute of Philanthropy, gave the Clinton Foundation an "A" rating.

    Daniel Borochoff, president and founder of CharityWatch, told us by phone that its analysis of the finances of the Clinton Foundation and its affiliates found that about 89 percent of the foundation budget is spent on programming (or "charity"), higher than the 75 percent considered the industry standard.

    Right....like all huge organizations with (none / 0) (#53)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:31:34 PM EST
    multiple programs, they only spend in one year what they bring in during that same year. You can't possibly be this stupid.

    You're last question likely warrants a yes (none / 0) (#54)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:49:25 PM EST
    as proven time and time again.

    Remind me not to he nice (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 10:07:56 PM EST
    to you again.



    That's not only patently false (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Yman on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 06:06:37 PM EST
    When you write off the contribution on your taxes it is no longer a contribution...

    It's patently ridiculous.  The huge majority of people who donate to charitable organizations and who itemize their taxes will deduct the value of those contributions from their taxes.  Haven';t you done so?  That doesn't suddenly mean they aren't contributions.


    Bill and Hill (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 10:28:45 PM EST
    contributed $1M to their own foundation.

    Another would be: "Of the $1,042,000 that the Clintons gave to charity last year, 96 percent of it went to their own foundation, and four percent of it went to fund a golf tournament." As Tyler Durden notes over at Zerohedge, this is pretty darned incestuous. "Taking a deduction for contributing to the employer of your daughter and expense payer of your husband," Durden notes, "is awesome."

    Hillary had no idea.


    Why wouldn't they? (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Yman on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 09:26:30 AM EST
    They specifically set up the Clinton Family Foundation (a charity) to handle their personal,  charitable contributions, a separate organization from the Clinton Foundation.

    But your "employer" lie was funny.   You know Chelsea is a volunteer at the Clinton Foundation, right?

    Maybe if you sought sources other that wingnut blogs and NR, you wouldn't be so easy to debunk.



    and campaign financial disclosures (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by ding7777 on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 10:38:33 AM EST
    show the campaign has spent $7.7 million at Trump family companies

    Do you know what the interest rate Trump is charging the campaign for loans he made to the campaign?


    Do you?? (none / 0) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:37:50 PM EST
    By all means tell us?

    Or is that just a wild attack designed to change the subject?


    Net worth analysis?? (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by NycNate on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:38:18 PM EST
    Yes, I have.  Before my software development days, I worked in finance.  In fact, I passed the first two levels of the Chartered Financial Analyst exam.  

    I also own a real estate business.  Albeit on a much smaller scale than Trump.  But the fundamentals of our businesses are very similar. So I am VERY familiar with cashflows.  Very familiar!  

    I have vacancies.  I am never 100% occupied.  Neither are most hotels.  Most airlines fly with empty seats.  It's the nature of the business.  


    My comment was to FlJoe. (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:40:23 PM EST
    Blah (none / 0) (#24)
    by FlJoe on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 09:14:00 AM EST
    Blah, woof, woof. Trump needs to lay out his entire business records (including his tax returns) The American people deserve nothing less.

    You first. (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:38:30 PM EST
    Yes, FLJoe, please show us your taxes (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by vml68 on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 01:09:00 PM EST
    and business records because you are apparently running to become POTUS.

    Thanks for being (1.00 / 3) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 02:44:35 PM EST
    my Huckleberry...

    If FlJoe is undergoing a combination root canal and urologist exam......aka IRS audit...

    Then he is excused.


    Nope (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 03:00:40 PM EST
    Jim that is another lie. There is nothing keep you from releasing previous years audited taxes and there is nothing keeping you from releasing this years unaudited taxes. Man, you'll swallow anything without even researching it won't you Jim?

    GA, watch your mouth (none / 0) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 10:13:29 PM EST
    I never said  he couldn't release his taxes...

    What he has said is that he won't until the audit is over.

    Makes sense since they really won't be accurate until the audit is complete...which all you folks will immediately jump on.

    If I was Trump I wouldn't do anything. I'd let you scream while I pushed Pay for Play and Hillary taking "donations" from Muslim states that define female hatred.


    Trump (none / 0) (#63)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 10:43:42 PM EST
    is never going to release his taxes. He never even said he would release them after the audit is over which frankly it should be long over by now since six months ago he announced he was getting audited (if that was even true). He only said he wasn't going to release them then. He'll have another excuse soon I'm sure.

    And there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING keeping him from releasing previous years taxes.

    Some say is the game you want to play? Well, some say that Trump is a pawn of Putin and beholden to the Russian Oligarchs. Some say Trump is really not wealthy. Some say Trump is mentally ill.


    I hear people are saying ...... (none / 0) (#75)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 04:48:37 PM EST
    Actually, you did (none / 0) (#70)
    by Yman on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 09:32:28 AM EST
    Immediately above,  you said:

    Of course since the audit isn't complete he can't release his actualtax documents.

    Which is,  of course, a complete lie.  

    But your silly, paper tiger admonition to GA to "watch your mouth" was amusing.


    Yes I did (none / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 04:54:54 PM EST
    because his tax documents, which are under audit, are not complete. He can't release something that doesn't exist.

    And I don't know what years, besides 2015, is under audit.

    Do you? Why no. You don't.


    His returns ARE complete (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Yman on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 05:43:20 PM EST
    He can release them anytime he wants.  He just doesn't want to.

    ... and you specifically said what you claimed you didn't say.



    No, an IRS audit is NOT an excuse to not (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by vml68 on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 03:37:14 PM EST
    release your taxes.
    No matter how many times you repeat that false claim, it won't make it true.
    IRS: Trump can release tax returns, regardless of audit

    P.S.- You can respond to this comment if you want to but I won't be responding back. I don't tend to respond directly to your comments because I think it is an exercise in futility and a complete waste of my time. I had intended to make my earlier comment to FLJoe but mistakenly responded to yours instead. I will be more careful in future.


    Haste makes waste (none / 0) (#58)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 10:17:38 PM EST
    and,one more time, I have never written that you can't release the documents you filed...

    Of course since the audit isn't complete he can't release his actualtax documents.



    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 10:39:58 PM EST
    he can release the documents. It's called unaudited returns and people do it all the time. Don't let the facts of your ignorance surrounding accounting and tax principles continue to let Trump play you for a fool.

    Quit parsing (none / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 06:54:00 AM EST
    if it's being audited it isn't complete.

    And for the eleventeenth time, I have never said he can't release whatever he wants to and he/you/me/the wide wide world of sports can call it whatever he/you/me/the wide wide world of sports want.

    But it still won't be complete.


    No, Jim (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 08:05:58 AM EST
    taxes are complete before they are audited. Your ignorance surrounding accounting is pretty astounding. Do you even understand what auditing is? Auditing is when they are checking over ALREADY COMPLETED taxes. It will be complete just not audited.

    No, GA. The submission may be (none / 0) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 04:57:56 PM EST
    complete. But your taxes, as well as the documents/forms submitted are not complete if/when the IRS decides to audit.

    No, Jim (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 05:34:06 PM EST
    but according to you taxes are never complete when they're filed. Yes, they are complete when you file them. An audit if it's done by the IRS is looking for cheating on taxes after they have been filed. A private audit by a public accounting firm is an audit after the fact. All audits are after the fact events.

    The only time some thing would not be considered legal or complete until it was audited would be a government entity like the town you live in or your state.  That does not apply to businesses and individuals. Look Trump is lying to you about all this but apparently it works because of the level of ignorance his supporters have about accepted accounting practices and norms.


    You folks aren't listening (none / 0) (#108)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 27, 2016 at 09:28:41 AM EST
    I have never said he can't release whatever he submitted.

    What I have tried to point out is that they are under audit and are not complete until the IRS accepts them.

    Of course all you want to do is yammer and attack.


    Again (none / 0) (#109)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 27, 2016 at 10:19:31 AM EST
    you are wrong about taxes. An audit cannot be done unless taxes are already complete. I and many others here have attempted to explain this to you but you continue to shop discredited information.

    You really have no idea how an audit works (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Yman on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 05:47:24 PM EST
    It's a little embarrassing to watch you keep repeating the same false claim ... but nothing new.  His returns were complete when he filed them.  An audit is an examination of the tax return and any supporting documents.  His returns may  need to be amended after the audit if they are inaccurate, but they're complete at the time of filing.

    Where do you find the patience to persist, Yman? (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by vml68 on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 07:16:32 PM EST
    The facts are in front of Jim but he will never accept them no matter how many times or how many different ways you say it.

    See the end of the tax form, Jim (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by Towanda on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 11:51:48 AM EST
    that you signed, attesting that it and all accompanying forms are "true, correct, and complete."

    Repeat, "complete."

    What part of "complete" do you not understand?


    As a "businessman," evidence reveals (none / 0) (#32)
    by christinep on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 12:47:15 PM EST
    that Trump has had more than little or moderate or even an occasional major failure.  Studies completed and widely reported via the WashPo and NYTimes, e.g., show the reality of consistently/deliberately overvaluing assets and substantially undervaluing debt.  In the process, he has racked up extensive and pervasive lawsuits against him by individuals--ranging from contractors to plumbers to wait staff to his own lawyers--claiming non-payment ... in the vernacular, that process has predictably proceeded by his resistance by non-payment or cents-on-the-dollar ... this practice, reported earlier this summer by USA Today (analysis of 600+ such lawsuits) would be known on the street or in the vernacular for shady operators as "stiffing" people who work for you, staying one-step ahead of the law, or something not so kind.

    IMO, I think that Michael Bloomberg and other actual billionaires have defined his number and his type quite well.  Donald Trump is a fraud and a con preying on those who cross his path and looking for suckers chasing the false allure of supposed riches.  


    site violator (none / 0) (#16)
    by fishcamp on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 07:13:46 AM EST

    I knew it (none / 0) (#18)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 08:01:58 AM EST
    Yrump otched the idea of continuing "The Apprentice" from the White House.

    But today he's on to Joe and Mika's love life....

    Typos. Sorry (none / 0) (#20)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 08:09:00 AM EST
    "Trump pitched the  idea...."

    Very Presidential :-)! (none / 0) (#35)
    by vml68 on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 01:12:43 PM EST
    But today he's on to Joe and Mika's love life....

    After reading about this (none / 0) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 03:16:15 PM EST
    I just watched some of MJ which I DVR.  pretty grim for Donald.  I can see why he is going after them.

    Serious danger (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 02:56:08 PM EST

    The implications -- short- and long-term -- are serious. Interviews with more than a dozen senior GOP operatives suggest growing panic that Trump's descent down this alt-right rabbit hole and, beyond that, his efforts to delegitimize the very institutions that undergird American democracy -- the media and the electoral process itself -- threaten not just their congressional majorities or the party's survival but, potentially, the stability of the country's political system.

    alt-right rabbit hole? (none / 0) (#62)
    by linea on Mon Aug 22, 2016 at 10:40:45 PM EST
    as in alternative-right?  dont you worry my Scrumpdillyicious man.  there is absolutely no big money to support or maintain any populist political movement. right or left. certainly not one that (obstensively, probably not realistically) puts the economic needs of my lowly friends front and center. we need to structure the economy so kelly osbourne (and posh lawyers) pay depressed wages to have their toilets cleaned. ok, im sorry but it just makes me mad. the dems are totally on board this too!

    Google translator (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 07:42:59 AM EST
    Gave up on that one.

    Needs the proper spacing (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 23, 2016 at 08:41:33 AM EST
    Alt-right rabbit hole?

    as in alternative-right?
           dont you worry my Scrumpdillyicious man.
     there is absolutely no big money to support or maintain
    any populist political movement.
                                  right or left.


    not one that
        (obstensively, probably not realistically)
     puts the economic needs
    of my lowly friends
    front and center.

    we need to structure the economy
    so kelly osbourne
                          (and posh lawyers)
    pay depressed wages
    to have their toilets cleaned.

    im sorry but it just makes me mad.

    the dems are totally on board this too!


    Re: Trump's tax returns (none / 0) (#89)
    by NYShooter on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 04:48:43 PM EST
    Thousands of words have been written here regarding Trump's refusal to make public his recent tax return(s)

    The reason for that is simple; they contain information that would be embarrassing to him i.e. he's not as rich as he claims to be, he paid little tax, and his charitable contributions are lower than he's led on to believe.

    Having said that, let's be honest; Knowledgeable people "know" that to be the reason, yet they insist on a public flailing for only one disingenuous, even hypocritical, reason: to humiliate him personally, and, politically. Now, that's certainly their right, just as it's Trump's right not to, voluntarily, assist in his own political incineration.

    Insofar as there's no law requiring a candidate to release his/her returns (though recent precedence has made it, pretty much, protocol) Trump has made the decision that not releasing his returns would be less damaging politically than releasing them.

    And, FWIW, it's also the reason Hillary doesn't want to release transcripts of her Goldman speeches. She did what's best for her, he's doing what's best for him. Given the alternatives, both made the right, at least, smart, decisions.

    What's fair is fair...."good for the goose, and all that.

    Plus the tiny detail (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 05:06:30 PM EST
    Of his financial entanglements with the Chinese and Russians.

    Until proven otherwise, (none / 0) (#92)
    by NYShooter on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 08:43:43 PM EST
    they remain alleged financial entanglements.

    And, similar to the prior "releasing documents" issue, Hillary has some alleged "financial entanglements" of her own she'd prefer to remain private.

    <sigh> Maybe, someday we'll concentrate on real campaign issues like, providing well paid, secure jobs....good, affordable health care....less war, more peace.

    But, then of course, half the blogs on the 'net' would have to shut down.  


    Reporting (none / 0) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 08:47:51 PM EST
    on issues takes too much work. An analysis that uses the brain apparently would make theirs blow up.

    I have to say though there are so many people on both sides of the aisles that are sick of the scandal mongering media. We shouldn't even have to go into whatever loans Trump has. His ideas are the problem.


    Not alleged (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 09:53:30 PM EST

    Notably, one of these -- a Manhattan office building which Trump partly owns -- "carries a $950 million loan," according to the Times. Goldman Sachs and the Bank of China are two of


    I'll let you do your own googling on the money from Russian oligarchs.  It has been massively reported.


    Thought experiment (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 10:01:29 PM EST
    Hillary has so much as an auto loan from a Chinese bank

    Also (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 10:41:53 PM EST
    Personally I think electing a person who is demonstrably hundreds of millions of dollars in personal debt to the Chinese govt run bank and the Russians is a "real campaign issue".

    But that's just me.


    Silly (none / 0) (#102)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 07:26:01 AM EST
    Howdy, palling around with world class philanthropists and Nobel prize winners is much worse than being deep in hock to Chinese and Russian banks and hiring high level campaign staff with strong ties to Russian Oligarchs and/or the domestic Alt-right.

    No one (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 05:21:21 PM EST
    is going to ever have to release their tax returns again. The press has let Trump off the hook on this account and frankly Bernie too. The next crop of candidates can just say you didn't make them disclose their tax forms so you shouldn't be on my case about it. So unless it becomes an election law that you have to release them I think that whole issue is dead.

    Unlike the sympathies expressed (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by christinep on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 09:41:38 PM EST
    by NYShooter painting an image of a poor and flailed against Trump because meanies are seeking tax returns, I would say "Increase the pressure for the tax returns."

     There is a reason--or rather, undoubtedly, multiple reasons--why Trump has dodged this issue for so long; and, it has a lot more to do with the reality of who this man is than all the component parts.  For example: If the candidate has boastfully, blatantly fabricated a story that defines him as powerful, no one-can-buy-me kazillionaire that is the opposite of a debt-ridden, owned scammer, the American public has a primary interest in knowing what give ...what gives in the way of his real finances, financial arrangements, etc.  If that same candidate has invented and widely parlayed the tale of a man who is his own man who believes in and will protect a key aspect of America (such as manufacturing via economic incentives and trade), Americans have every right to see--via years of tax returns--whether that tale holds up or is belied by very contradictory business practices such as significant outsourcing, etc.  Especially, Americans have every right to learn about any relevant business interests and practices--via actual tax returns--that may cast doubt on his international relationships ... and, yes, here is looking at ongoing/previous/new business relationships with countries (trans: Russia & Putin) that may undermine US interests and obligations as to NATO, etc.

    Frankly, I'm a bit perplexed by why commenters such as NYShooter would appear to minimize the significance of Trump's reported financial arrangements that clearly could provide important info for voters.  Especially, the Russian connection :)  To equate the significance of fundamental candidate-definition info with speechmaking is ludicrous.


    Total BS (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by FlJoe on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 09:46:40 PM EST
    on the speech transcripts, there is zero precedence for turning over speech transcripts, releasing tax returns has become de rigueur.  

    C'mon Give Me the Worst Case (none / 0) (#103)
    by RickyJim on Thu Aug 25, 2016 at 09:54:07 AM EST
    What is the most embarrassing thing that HRC could have told to an audience at Goldman-Sachs.  Remember that there would be plenty of people in the audience that she didn't know and some might have told the media what she said.  Also, is it certain that these transcripts exist?

    the most embarrassing? (none / 0) (#106)
    by ding7777 on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:41:33 PM EST
    probably that its only one generic speech given over and over again

    That would actually be hilarious (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 26, 2016 at 04:58:17 PM EST
    I want the thank ______ and ______ and a very special thanks to ________

    No one (none / 0) (#94)
    by NYShooter on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 08:54:14 PM EST
    has ever had to release their tax returns before.

    And, I don't know where you got the idea, "The press has let Trump off the hook on this account." What do you expect them to do? They pound him on it almost daily as it is. Plus, since Hillary has evolved into the Presumptive President-Elect I don't hear any more "release Goldman Docs" either.

    Nope, just gonna have to scrape up some other useless non-issues. So sad.

    Presidential candidates (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by christinep on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 09:51:36 PM EST
    RO release their tax returns, NYShooter.  They do, because it is expected, because it is an American rite of passage when seeking the Presidency.  To defy that expectation in view of custom & tradition is to invite unending commentary about "what are you hiding" ... and, that is as it should be.  Trump postures himself as a big boy in the big leagues.  Big boys play by the rules of the game.

    BTW, the only thing amusing about the instant discussion is your fascinating position on Trump, as if he were unduly under attack because he tried to pull a fast one.  


    Well (none / 0) (#95)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2016 at 09:21:28 PM EST
    it seems to me that the press has dropped the tax matter with Trump. Whatever. I just think at this point candidates just aren't going to release their taxes anymore after all this.

    Really (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 27, 2016 at 01:53:53 PM EST
    There is something seriously wrong with this person-

    Donald Trump is drawing attention to the death of a professional basketball player's cousin to make the argument for why he thinks African-Americans will vote for him in November.

    Chicago Bulls basketball star Dwyane Wade's cousin, Nykea Aldridge, was shot and killed in Chicago on Friday afternoon while pushing a stroller in the Parkway Gardens neighborhood. Trump commented on her death on Twitter.

    Dwayne Wade's cousin was just shot and killed walking her baby in Chicago. Just what I have been saying. African-Americans will VOTE TRUMP!-- Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 27, 2016

    Reaction (none / 0) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 27, 2016 at 01:58:32 PM EST
    The (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 27, 2016 at 02:22:28 PM EST
    explosion of outrage over this is really pretty remarkable


    Seriously.  Kelly Ann is probably on suicide watch.   Whatever tiny progress he might have made with the most gullible people of color was just blown to hell.

    With a tweet.

    If it wasn't so horrifyingly inhuman it would be hilarious.


    Did you see (none / 0) (#113)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 27, 2016 at 02:25:23 PM EST
    the "new" response? Kellyanne apparently took the phone away from him but as you know when it comes to the internet nothing every is really gone because the original has been retweeted many many times.

    You mean the one (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 27, 2016 at 02:31:06 PM EST
    Where they spelled his name right?

    Or the one, 5 hours later, where he "expressed condolences"

    You can't make this stuff up.


    Also (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 27, 2016 at 02:38:26 PM EST
    On the subject of stuff you can't make up,  did we see the NBC segment where they talk to Trumps "Doctor" who wrote that nutty letter about him being spectacularly healthy?

    Turns out not only is he the alien lab geek from Independence Day  But he wrote the letter in 5 minutes while his limo was waiting.

    Really.  You can't make it up.


    LOL (none / 0) (#116)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 27, 2016 at 02:40:11 PM EST
    I mean the one 5 hours later when Kellyanne took the phone from him.

    Scientific American (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 27, 2016 at 03:42:13 PM EST

    Donald Trump's Lack of Respect for Science Is Alarming
    The U.S. presidential election shows how far the political conversation has degenerated from the nation's founding principles

    Scientific American is not in the business of endorsing political candidates. But we do take a stand for science--the most reliable path to objective knowledge the world has seen--and the Enlightenment values that gave rise to it. For more than 170 years we have documented, for better and for worse, the rise of science and technology and their impact on the nation and the world. We have strived to assert in our reporting, writing and editing the principle that decision making in the sphere of public policy should accept the conclusions that evidence, gathered in the spirit and with the methods of science, tells us to be true.

    The current presidential race, however, is something special. It takes antiscience to previously unexplored terrain. When the major Republican candidate for president has tweeted that global warming is a Chinese plot, threatens to dismantle a climate agreement 20 years in the making and to eliminate an agency that enforces clean air and water regulations, and speaks passionately about a link between vaccines and autism that was utterly discredited years ago, we can only hope that there is nowhere to go but up.