Trump Picks Michael Pence as Running Mate

The Republican ticket will be Donald Trump and Indiana Governor Michael Pence.

Although I know next to nothing about Pence, I feel like we dodged a bullet by Trump's bypassing Newt Gingrich and Chris Christie. [More....]

This is encouraging. This is not. Chris Christie was worse, at least on marijuana.

You can watch Pence address the need for a little criminal justice reform in this 2015 speech where he was the keynote speaker. The video is here. The introduction begins at 1:01:38, which pretty much lists all his professional accomplishments. In the speech, he says he's passionate about second chances. He says we should be toughest on crimes against persons. He says Indiana should be the worst place to commit a crime, but once you've done your time, it should be the best place in America to get a second chance. He says drug treatment behind bars is critical.

Pence says he keeps a copy of the Indiana Constitution open on his desk every day. He quotes from Article I: "The penal code shall be founded on the principles of reformation, not vindictive justice."

I am still concerned that Trump, in the unlikely event he's elected, will appoint Chris Christie as Attorney General. Then again, maybe with two senior members of Christie's staff pleading guilty to felony charges, and three more charged, maybe Trump will think again before making Christie his go-to law and order guy.

I wonder if the Thumper (so called because I think he will land with a thud in November) will make Newt his Secretary of State. Maybe this leaked video of Newt trash-talking Trump will give him pause.

Newt Gingrich, a leading candidate to be Donald Trump’s running mate, told Republicans at a closed-door meeting earlier this year that Trump is not a conservative, speaks to voters “at the lowest level of any candidate in either party,” and could lose in a landslide if he didn’t significantly change his approach to campaigning.

Gingrich suggested Trump’s move from campaigning to governing would be challenging: “How we make the transition from, you know, language for fourth graders to real policy, I don’t know.”

All in all, it could have been much worse. Anytime we don't have to worry about the likes of Sarah Palin, Rudy Giuliani or Newt Gingrich, we will be fine.

Another positive thing about Pence's pick: He's really boring to listen to. He speaks well, but he has zero charisma. He might as well be talking about life insurance.

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    And Trump (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by MKS on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 10:30:46 PM EST
    waffled and tried through the night to figure out a way to retract the offer to Pence.

    Sure, he is a decisive leader.

    Given the chaos in Turkey, we need a Hillary to be in charge.

    Hillary is in trouble (3.00 / 2) (#10)
    by NycNate on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 10:02:13 AM EST
    Last night, I was at a gathering with a group of black people. Educated. Mostly government workers. Of course, Trump became the topic of conversation.  

    Interestingly enough, not one of the black people said they were voting for Hillary. Some of the men and women even expressed passionately that they were voting for Trump. One even mentioned Gary Johnson. Most had some sort of security clearance.  ALL thought that Hillary got away with the email scandal that would have had them jailed.

    This was in DC liberal land. Almost all had voted both times for Obama. I know this is anecdotal.  But, I think Hillary is in serious, serious trouble.  

    For the record, I don't vote. I don't have a dog in the hunt.  Politics is like sports (a spectator activity) for me.

    That's (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 10:06:30 AM EST
    some mighty powerful acid you dropped.

    Uhhhmmmm, ... no (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 04:30:57 PM EST
    Whatever group of people you're hanging out with is not remotely representative of "black people".

    There's "anecdotal" (pretty much worthless), and then there's anecdotal tales contradicted by a million data points - like this story.  The latter is just laughable.


    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:46:53 PM EST
    Wasn't there something about overwhelming AA support in some primary that just happened?  Or something?

    NycNate in DC Wonderland (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by JanaM on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 08:31:28 PM EST
    Gee your experiences in DC are the exact opposite of mine. Maybe you fell down the rabbit hole.

    But seriously how educated can they be if they still don't understand why Hillary broke no laws.


    If Trump can convince enough people (1.00 / 1) (#12)
    by itscookin on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 11:17:35 AM EST
    he's not a crazy racist, he'll win. Admittedly, that's a wide river to cross. But "Crooked Hillary" has stuck. She may have won in the legal system, but like OJ, she's lost in the court of public opinion. A lot of people are weighing which candidate would be worse, not which candidate would be better. There's not much Hillary can do to repair her "crooked" image with the masses, but Trump has some wiggle room. So far, Hillary's attack ads against Trump have sounded more like ads for him to Trump's target audience. Like me, there are a lot of people who are doing a "wait and see". We don't have any reason to decide until November. Only the candidates themselves can win our vote. The "true believers" for either candidate can and will argue among themselves, but it's not helping or hurting either candidate. It's just entertainment, mostly for the believers.

    Trump as racist (3.67 / 3) (#25)
    by NycNate on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 01:29:26 PM EST
    I don't think labeling Trump as a racist is working. My dad, a Hillary voter, likes Trump.  The reason why surprised me. He likes Trump from his USFL days. He thought Trump was helping the little man.  And by extension blacks.

    I mentioned the gathering I attended recently. Not one of the blacks mentioned Trump being racist. I think he has had such a public persona for so long, racism won't stick.

    Trump has a lot of friends in the sports and entertainment industry.  Herschel walker. De la Hoya. Floyd Mayweather. Tyson. Rappers mention him in their songs.

    I'm telling you. If Trump brings the high profile sports and entertainment figures with him on the campaign, he's going to get a surprising percentage of the black vote.  

    This is just one man's opinion. However, I'm a landlord.  I'm black.  Many of my tenants are black. I have an intimate understanding of how blacks feel about Trump. This may make for a very interesting election.  


    LOL (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 01:32:49 PM EST
    I think your concern trolling is reaching epic levels now.

    The oldy moldie (none / 0) (#29)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 01:36:59 PM EST
    "I ain't racist, I have black friends" dodge.

    as Nate has mentioned many times, (1.00 / 1) (#39)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:20:22 PM EST
    most recently in the above comment, he is black & has a lot of black friends & associates

    so your attempt to play the racist card has failed


    Addams Family: In recent key state polling, (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by christinep on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 04:02:52 PM EST
    HRC polls at the levels President Obama reached in comparative polling announced as to several battleground states in the past week.  At the same time, Trump polls at levels lower than Romney during his 2012 run in these same states, including Pennsylvania et al. The Trump levels reach near zero--yes, zero--support in the black community in these battleground states.

    I believe that the polling was conducted by the "A"-rated WSJ/NBC/Marist polling operation.  (Since I was on a short trip, I only scanned the polling stories ... per recollection, there was a write-up in fiverthirtyeight.com and politicalwire.com during that period.  It should be easy to locate if interested.)  There may be a number of interpretations as to why Donald Trump is held in very low regard among the various minority communities as reflected in a number of fairly neutral polling operations during the past few months ... at the least, the consistent negative results suggest the perceptions must be based on something.

    Apart from the question of whether racism is claimed or hinted at here or in another venues (and separate from the implications of arriving at such a conclusion), based upon the almost heavy-breathing "concern" expressed as to HRC along with inaccurate claims made in his concern comments, it certainly leads me to the conclusion that it is meant to be the kind of postured "concern" used to stir up emotions against the subject of his emotions.  And, rather sloppily done at that :)


    You (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 09:01:45 PM EST
    misunderstand,  I think Nate is using that card for Trump, IMO making it even more ridiculous.

    Seeing as how he is black (none / 0) (#71)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:10:36 PM EST
    This is just one man's opinion. However, I'm a landlord.  I'm black.  Many of my tenants are black. I have an intimate understanding of how blacks feel about Trump. This may make for a very interesting election.

    I'd say he does have black friends.


    If polling numbers supported your claim (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by ExPatObserver on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:59:58 PM EST
    about Trump's support among blacks, your anecdotes would be more convincing.
    Which state had him polling at 0% in that demographic this week---OH or PA?

    yep (none / 0) (#50)
    by ExPatObserver on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 03:02:12 PM EST
    Trump is racist,
    according to Hispanics.

    This Florida poll (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Redbrow on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 04:40:01 PM EST
    has Trump leading with Hispanic voters 49% to 36%.

    Florida happens to be a key state, in case you did not know.

    Florida Poll 7-11-16


    That's it? (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 04:52:29 PM EST
    The Florida Hispanic vote has traditionally  been very conservative/Republican.  Assuming that single poll is accurate, if he's only up by 13 in a small subset of Latino voters that's not remotely representative of the national Latino vote, he's in trouble.

    Good luck with that (none / 0) (#58)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 04:52:12 PM EST
    Seriously funny (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:50:57 PM EST
    What is this "surprising percentage of the black vote" you claim he will get IF he gets some (unspecified) "high profile sports/entertainment" endorsements?

    You realize he's viewed unfavorably by 90% of AAs, right?


    Nycnate (1.00 / 1) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:30:09 PM EST
    GA, Fljoe, etc., etc., all have black friends, probably 2 each,  so they have to know more about blacks than a black person...

    Yes (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 11:32:09 AM EST
    but the whole Trump's target audience is 40% of the electorate. Getting 40% of the electorate but turning off 60% gets you a landslide.

    Do (none / 0) (#14)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 12:07:25 PM EST
    you really think, that blacks, latinos, muslims, women and everyone else will "forget" over the space of four months? Do you really think the Democrats will let anyone forget?

    This attitude is the problem

    Like me, there are a lot of people who are doing a "wait and see". We don't have any reason to decide until November.

    You accept the current zeitgeist of the "court of public opinion" that Trump is a crazy racist and Hillary is crooked and bizarrely demand that

    Only the candidates themselves can win our vote.
    basically asking the candidates to prove themselves innocent of said charges.

    Of course the actual rhetoric, record and policies have no truck with the "masses", sadly to a large degree you are correct.


    Well (none / 0) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 12:43:02 PM EST
    in conservaworld you are never innocent. If you are accused of something you are guilty, facts, evidence and the law do not ever come into play.

    what should happen (none / 0) (#19)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 12:43:02 PM EST
    instead of the candidates themselves winning the votes of the electorate?

    When (none / 0) (#21)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 12:55:32 PM EST
    you insist that they continuously have to prove the negative in order to win votes. No candidate should have to combat a media driven narrative over actual facts, then democracy itself  is in trouble.

    It's unfair to  ask Hillary that she is not crooked just as much it's unfair to ask Trump to prove he is not a crazy racist.


    i think (none / 0) (#22)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 01:14:41 PM EST
    the commenter known as itscookin must have been reading the evolving series of posts by Scott Adams

    sorry, can't easily link to his blog from my tablet, but you might find Adams enlightening as background on where itscookin (along with perhaps not a few voters) appears to be coming from


    that's (none / 0) (#24)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 01:29:22 PM EST
    kinda my point, when some moderately successful cartoonist becomes a political oracle..... there be monsters. Opinion, innuendo and media horse race manipulation ruling the day, does not bode well for democracy.

    I checked (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:08:09 PM EST
    out that blog and he's part of the problem for sure. What ever happened to focusing on issues? I certainly wouldn't go to him for political guidance. He mostly seems to appear to consider himself some sort of media critic.

    Nate, I take it you live in New York? (none / 0) (#28)
    by ruffian on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 01:36:18 PM EST
    I just don't think there is any chance of Trump winning New York, even if everyone is not convinced he is a racist.  He is still Republican, purporting to be a conservative.  NY has been a solid blue state for many election cycles now.

    I live in DC & NYC (2.67 / 3) (#80)
    by NycNate on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 07:19:41 PM EST
    My interactions in NYC are much more pro Hillary. But then, the people I meet are more diverse in NYC. But, the black people I have met are much more skeptical of Hillary.  DC is a gov't town. Lots of people have clearances. They know that the email issue is verboten. They know if it were them, they'd be in jail. The FBI/confirmed as much.  

    Now for my opinion on this..

    A lot of black people feel the system is rigged. Especially the criminal justice system. Seeing Hillary escape any punishment just doesn't sit well with black people who feel that the system is against them.


    You really shouldn't pretend to speak (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 09:36:04 PM EST
    ... for "black people".  Hillary is supported by a huge majority of AAs and your friends are not representative of anyone but themselves. Conversely,  only a tiny percentage support Trump.  Let me know if you need actual polls.

    Your claims about the FBI are also false.   They did not "confirm as much".


    They did? (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Nemi on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 07:00:01 AM EST
    The FBI/confirmed as much.

    You wouldn't by any chance happen to have a link to that alleged 'confirmation'?

    ... just doesn't sit well with black people ...

    How about "with some black people"? (Or even better, but that's just me, "with some people.")


    Regarding the people I know upset about the email (none / 0) (#88)
    by ruffian on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:08:59 PM EST
     and clearance issues - they were not voting for Hillary anyway. Did not vote for Obama either.

    I think her numbers did take a hit over that, but I think in time people will figure out that there is no one that has benefitted from any rigging of the system more than Donald Trump.


    That's pretty (none / 0) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:17:43 PM EST
    much been my experience. I imagine State will probably release all the emails since they have been saying from the start that they are not classified.

    Newt = chief of staff (none / 0) (#2)
    by The Addams Family on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 11:11:03 PM EST

    Newt (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:43:04 AM EST
    Already said CoS would be too demanding.

    Ivanka = Valerie Jarrett, Karen Hughes . . . (none / 0) (#3)
    by The Addams Family on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 11:12:23 PM EST

    jarrett & hughes? (none / 0) (#40)
    by linea on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:21:41 PM EST
    i don't know what this means but i like ivanka.

    You and Donald and her (none / 0) (#67)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:00:15 PM EST
    brother too.



    you dont know anything! (1.50 / 2) (#79)
    by linea on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 07:17:52 PM EST
    i have no idea what you are taking about!!!

    what does "you and donald and her brother too" mean?? donald who? who are you even talking about? ive known ivanka all my life. do you even subscibe to her tweets? do you follow her #WomenWhoWork feed? Baby Theodore? im sorry that her dad is embarassing. yeah, but ivanka has been a champion for working women for forever - goofy dad notwithstanding!!!  


    Michael Pence is like Sarah Palin, ... (none / 0) (#4)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 15, 2016 at 11:24:51 PM EST
    ... except with a little more savvy and no personal charisma.

    really disagree (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 12:38:38 AM EST
    Pence expresses himself intelligently and he's not stupid. He has a law degree. He served many terms in Congress before being Governor. He doesn't exude phoniness or lack of class. The only thing those two have in common is their conservative religious views.

    Dan Quayle had a law degree too (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 01:56:26 PM EST
    He wasn't a deep thinker either.

    Yes, Quayle (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:10:36 PM EST
    and Pence both have law degrees from Indiana University.  And, also true, Quayle has never been accused of being a thinker, let alone a deep one. Pence, on the other hand, does have some thoughts, most of which center on misogyny and homophobia.

    Oh no, my cover is blown almost (5.00 / 5) (#60)
    by christinep on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 04:54:03 PM EST
    Because my law degree is from IU.  

    I also have some understanding on the ins-&-outs of Indiana politics and lawyers.  (And, I don't mean the previewed Trump-Pence goofy logo.)  Basically, Mike Pence has become known in Indiana as a for-a-smart-person-he-sure-is-dumb governor.  For husband and myself, during the imbroglio he created for himself by successfully pushing for and getting state legislation hyped as ensuring additional freedoms for practicing one's religious beliefs, we became glued to reading everything we could about the jumbled mess his political posturing caused.  As many recall, the legislation would have allowed for certain religious-practitioners to refuse commercial sales/service to any number of people (read: the LGBTQ community) for reasons such as not wanting to make, sell cakes and other goods to gay couples (yes, that infamous issue.)  At first, a number of evangelical conservatives applauded and Pence rode high...but then, counter protests that grew to include many Indiana businesses as well as its citizenry.  

    In a short period, Pence saw his approval ratings drop so low that he stood a good chance of losing the governorship for himself and the Repubs this fall.  Why the quick drop in Indiana: Big businesses like Cummings, Eli Lily, and others (including his one-time campaign manager) began to ask him to seek a significant refinement or repeal of the new law because Indiana business was hurting as a result of national pressure.  Even the principal Indiana newspaper, which almost always backs Repubs, editorialized against what came to be seen as his obstinancy.  Still, Pence resisted ... until the big one weighed in, aka the NBA.  When the NBA announced that it might cancel heretofore scheduled playoffs in Indianapolis--when the ruling basketball deity threatened to abandon poor Pence and his poor judgment, Governor Pence switched positions on a dime.  That left the big evangelical community there feeling betrayed, etc. etc.  The Governor accomplished the unusual feat of pi$$ng off both sides in a few short months.

    Look a bit deeper about this Conservative's Conservative in Indiana, and you will find that his latest contribution to the right is one of the more stringent abortion-restriction laws in the country now. Pence has always been a major player nationally in the effort to defund Planned Parenthood (and, as governor, he accomplished that defunding deed in Indiana.)  Then, there was his unforgotten legislation that would require that menstrual blood "cremains" (where a fertilized egg had been part of the monthly discharge) be buried ... my goodness, he and Trump might want to compare their reactions to that blood stuff coming from women monthly ... and, in Indiana, protests led to opposition in the form of Periods for Pence.

    All is not as it seems with Mr. Pence.  Despite some areas of adaptation to this century, this would-be VP does not believe that global warming exists nor does he believe in evolution. In the area of foreign policy, he did believe in war in the Mideast as he was a strong proponent for war in Iraq.  In matters of immigration--in the most recent days--he is trying to not be as dismissive of Trump's positions about deportation & minorities as he had previously been.  

    IMO, Pence may be the deal that Trump needed to make to avoid a very contentious convention on the floor.  Pence is the deal for Cruz-supporters and conservatives to refrain from the embarrassing disharmony they had promised.  This is one deal that the purported dealmaker Trump had shoved at him.  For Reince Priebus, Governor Pence and his image look the part.  Now, we should all get to see what Indiana sees.


    I Only Know Two Things About Pence (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by Jane in CA on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 03:53:45 AM EST
    And I believe you've touched on both of them:

    1. His egregious disregard for Separation of Church and State by pretending he is actually trying to uphold the Separation of Church and State (presumably the legislation allowing businesses to refuse services to those whose lifestyles they find incompatible with their religious beliefs); and

    2. Legislation in which he attempted to force women who had suffered miscarriages or abortions to hold funerals for the embryo -- I'm assuming that is the "cremains" issue? Horrifying. I keep thinking nothing more can surprise me about the lengths to which these old, white, middle class men will go to keep their business up women's uteri, and I keep finding myself absolutely appalled by their efforts to do so-really there simply are not enough adjectives to describe my reaction to stories like this. Also, legislation like this begs the question as to what you do about women with an IUD. As you know,the IUD does not prevent fertilization, but simply prevents the fertilized cell from attaching to the uterine wall.  Did Pence expect these women to pay for a funeral every month on the assumption that their birth control could technically be terminating  pregnancies each month? Or was he willing to graciously concede that only 'confirmed' pregnancies would require a funeral?

    I was unaware of the other issues you brought up -- thank you for the info -- but don't find it surprising. A man who willfully dreams up legislation that serves no purpose other than to make woman who are already suffering, suffer a little more -- lacks any sense of shared humanity, IMO. And that is frightening. More scary even then Trump, because Pence's agenda, beliefs and legislation remains acceptable to a large number of people, even today, in the 21st century. Pence, thus, is given the respect that a lot of people deny Trump, although Pence's agenda strikes me as having strong sociopathic tendencies.

    Thank you, Jane (none / 0) (#126)
    by christinep on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 06:06:44 PM EST
    These days, I'm starting to feel the need for coming up with words or phrases conveying the beyond-"appalling" sense that this Trump/Pence duo project.  I am appalled as well ... and yet, most every day brings something even worse about the ugliness of their combined intent. Where is the bottom of this barrel?

    Anyone have a reliable source that provides (none / 0) (#131)
    by Peter G on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 10:38:23 PM EST
    an overview of Pence's opinions on the relevance of his religion opinions to matters of policy? Does he deny, as some Wingers do, that separation of church and state is an essential First Amendment principle? Does he believe the U.S. is in any sense a "Christian nation"? Is he what is referred to as a Dominionist? (Of what ilk?) Is it true that he rejects science on evolution and climate change because that contemporary knowledge contradicts his religious beliefs?

    This from Slate (none / 0) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 10:46:17 PM EST
    ... as one of the more cynical pols you'll ever see. As Jeralyn noted, he's not stupid, but he's proved himself time and again to be entirely disingenuous. So in that regard, whether or not he personally believes in the church-state separation, in evolution or in bat-guano crazy dominionism, is likely beside the point.

    What matters are his actions. And Mike Pence is the sort of guy who'll criticize the Disney cartoon feature "Mulan" in an op-ed as liberal propaganda, and who'll champion a bill that would have given so-called religious people a blanket exemption from equal accommodations laws so that they can continue to discriminate against the LGBY community or whomever else does meet their questionable standards.

    In short, he's the ultimate right-wing Pander Bear, who's perfectly capable of saying and doing anything he thinks will benefit him and advance his career.



    Lol (none / 0) (#138)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 07:31:44 PM EST
    In short, he's the ultimate right-wing Pander Bear, who's perfectly capable of saying and doing anything he thinks will benefit him and advance his career.

    Sounds like a lot of politicians I know, some even running for President.


    I don't think (none / 0) (#140)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 08:21:07 PM EST
    it really matters whether he's a Pander bear or not. Let's just take him at his word that movies like Mulan which are a retelling of a Chinese story are really liberal propaganda meant to brainwash children. LOL. LOL. LOL. What an idiot.

    Did he really say that (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 10:42:15 PM EST
    About Mulan?  I know people who worked on it who would be pleased with that description fwiw.

    Wowee (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 10:44:26 PM EST
    If you type Mike Pence into google it's the first choice.

    Pence is a moron (none / 0) (#6)
    by ExPatObserver on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:02:34 AM EST
    In a Congress with many extremely stupid Republicans, Pence was competitive for dumbest of the litter. One sample out of many. Smoking doesn't kill.
    His religious freedom law in Indiana is proof that he is a dangerous ideologue who places adherence to his radical ideals above the welfare of the state.

    I think Christie is the only one of the three with intelligence and enough political savvy to hurt the Clinton ticket. He wasn't picked because he sent the father of Trump's son in law to jail.
    By the way, the new lawsuit against the Trump family for $250 million tax fraud is interesting.


    Pence's family owns or owned (none / 0) (#7)
    by ruffian on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 05:46:39 AM EST
    Gas station/convenience stores, where most cigarettes are sold. His statements about smoking are probably business related rather than dumb.

    Not that that's any better.


    Science ignorance is typical for (none / 0) (#8)
    by ExPatObserver on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 05:52:31 AM EST
    Pence, not just in regards to smoking.

    Pro-Smoking? (none / 0) (#135)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 02:39:43 PM EST
    Just goes to show nobody is all bad;)

    My take on Michael Pence? (none / 0) (#16)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 12:32:32 PM EST
    His ego has gotten the best of him. It's all about Michael.

    He's only ever been interested in securing a seat in the front row of history.


    A true brother-in-arms w/Trump, then. (none / 0) (#61)
    by christinep on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 05:03:54 PM EST
    Well, he's now destined for its dustbins. (none / 0) (#121)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 02:30:25 PM EST
    ... a number of whom have also left me wondering how they even received their undergraduate degrees, never mind ever passing the bar. But that's beside the point. Like the Divine Sarah, Mike Pence is one of the most superficial and disingenuous politicians in America. He just so happens to be a little more articulate. That's all.

    But from a practical standpoint, Pence and Palin both wield the same false sense of moral superiority like a cudgel against anyone who disagrees with them. They're also a couple of political grifters, who are first and foremost out for themselves before anyone else.

    In his case, Pence is running for vice president because his approval ratings are at 40% and tanking in Indiana, and he'd otherwise be an almost certain loser for re-election as governor this year. This way, when he loses in November, he can blame it all on Trump rather than have to take personal responsibility for his own performance.



    Kind of sorry I didn't watch (none / 0) (#15)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 12:18:25 PM EST
    Trump/Pence event.  Reading tweets and NYT live blog was intriguing.

    Just (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 12:41:45 PM EST
    watch the part where he finally welcomes Pence on stage starting @ 26:30, Trumps body language says it all.

    Paul Manafort, Trump Campaign (none / 0) (#20)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 12:50:39 PM EST
    Chair, "He needs an experienced person to do the part of the job he doesn't want to do.  He sees himself more of a Chairman of the Board, than even a CEO, let alone a COO."

    Pence would have to share with the Trump kids, sort of like Uday and Usay did for Saddam.


    ha - like ALL of the job (none / 0) (#26)
    by ruffian on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 01:31:34 PM EST
    Here is Ezra Klein's (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 01:54:18 PM EST
    take, along with a video. Really bizarro. Talked about everything but poor Pence. Introduced him finally,  and left the stage.  Trump seemed to have buyer's remorse, never forgiving Pence for endorsing ly'n Ted--Pence did it, he said, under pressure.  Which does not say much for Pence, or Trump. Pence really did not want to endorse Ly'n Ted. (Trump said Ly'n Ted is great now, and will be at the convention).

    But it was Trump's best non-endorsement ever, he said. And, Pence balanced the budget in Indiana! Not seeming to know that states must balance the budget. Trump is a menace; as a labor leader in Indiana said sarcastically, the Trumpence ticket is great, all we need is to pitch a circus tent.


    One of the most intriguing tidbits (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by Peter G on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 07:39:04 PM EST
    in Tr*mp's endless, rambling, self-centered "introduction" of Pence was his dog-whistle shout-out to the Religious Right with references to the "Johnson Amendment" -- right-wing code for the provision of the 1954 Internal Revenue Code that prohibits 501(c)(3) tax-exempt and tax-deductible charitable organizations, including churches, from engaging in partisan political activity, such as endorsing or campaigning for candidates. Of course, nothing prohibits such entities from engaging in politics if they want to -- the First Amendment would prohibit any such restriction -- but the tax law does bar them from doing so with tax-exempt (and thus publicly-subsidized) dollars. However, as we all know, this provision is routinely violated by churches, and almost never enforced. The IRS is reluctant, due to fear of public backlash, and private enforcement is hobbled by the federal courts' "standing" doctrine. Other nonprofits have to be, and are, much more careful.
       I would love to see an attempt at a fact-check of that intro. It was unusually fact- [or factoid-]laden. I had the feeling, but not yet the evidence, that it featured a vert high percentage of whoppers, even for Tr*mp.

    Here's one fact-check piece (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Peter G on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 07:50:08 PM EST
    David Barstow, reported (none / 0) (#120)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 12:44:10 PM EST
    in front page news (NYTimes, July 17) on Trump's deals relying on being creative with the truth.  "Creative" sans quotes describes Trump's chronic, obsessive and compulsive lying, even when it really is not necessary.  Examples cited include, claiming that he was paid $1 million for a speech, when, in fact, he was paid $400,000.  Or, the time he sought a bank loan claiming his net worth was $3.5 Billion in 2004, when the bank found it inflated four times.

    Trump's operatic record of "dissembling and deception" is a part of his four decades of wheeling and dealing. According to Barstow, based on the mountain of court records spanning Trump's career, it is hard to find a project he touched that did not produce allegations of broken promises, blatant lies, or outright fraud.

    Maybe at the unconventional Republican convention, Trump will throw in a diploma from Trump University for all attendees.  And, his minor cohort, Pence, can promise the legalized imposition of his religious beliefs on the nation--excluding, of course, the Ninth Commandment.


    Hmmm, as fact-checking goes (none / 0) (#123)
    by Nemi on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 02:54:10 PM EST
    very disappointing. I actually listened to his incoherent speech, and thought I heard more outright lies than that, but maybe it's just that I find rumours and innuendo to be kind of lies too?

    But still I wish he would be called out more for his ... uncivilised way of characterizing other people. Part of his speech:

    After four years of Clinton, who really led the way and led Obama down a horrible path because I don't even think he could have made these decisions so badly, she led him right down a horrible path. He didn't know what he was doing ...

    Hillary Clinton is the embodyment of corruption she is a corrupt person. What she's done with her email, what she's done with so many things, and I see the ads up all the time, the ads. She's totally bought and payed for. By Wall Street, the special interests, the lobbyists, one hundred percent. She's Crooked Hillary. And I think that ... was she got away with murder. In fact I think it may be her greatest accomplishment ... escaping the recent scandal and her liiies! And the loss of 33 thousand emails, but it wasn't all loss, she discard... that in itself is a major crime. Other people have been paying tremendous prices for what they've done which is peanuts compared to what happened with Hillary Clinton. 33 thousand emails are missing and that's ok!? Didn't give'm ... to the FBI. Didn't give'm ... to the attorney general and that's ok!? Wipes her server clean. That's ok!? These are crimes. These are crimes. And how she got away with it ... I think I understand it, but I think a lot of people don't but I do believe while she didn't pay the price she should have paid, she's going to pay that price when November eight rolls around. She's going to pay it at the polls. I believe that.

    Her job and everything else Hillary made 21 point 6 million dollars giving speeches to special interests in a short period of time. She's totally owned by Wall Street we believe in Americanism she believes in globalism. And it's not that she believes in it. The people that give her all of this money believe in it. And she'll believe in whatever they want her to believe. Believe me, that's it.

    What a difference. Between Crooked Hillary Clinton and Mike Pence! Mike Pence will never be afraid to speak the name of our enemy ... Radical Islam! Radical Islamic terr0rism. You saw it the other day with the truck screaming out the window. You heard what he was screaming out the window. You saw it in San Bernadino! You saw it at The World Trade Center. You saw it in Orlando. How horrible was that. You saw it in Paris. You see it all over. And Hillary is a weak person. We are the Law and Order candidates. And with the Law and Order Party we're going to change things around, there's going to be respect again for law and order.

    (My emphasis) What did "we" hear screamed out the window? Not that I don't know what Donald Trump is aiming at, but still. So does anyone hold him accountable for this, ehm crooked version of reality?


    Thank you for highlighting that line (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by Peter G on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 07:41:47 PM EST
    NPR states there is no official report, at least, of any shouting out the truck window by the Nice killer-driver. Apparently, Tr*mp saw and heard this in the same place he saw all those Muslim Americans in Jersey City cheering as the Twin Towers burned and fell.

    I forgot to include (none / 0) (#134)
    by Nemi on Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 07:15:06 AM EST
    how Donald Trump at the outset of his speech, as the master(!) instigator he is, proclaimed that

    I want to also address the Islamic terror attack in France.

    But at that point noone knew if it was 'Islamic' -- and we still don't know. Maybe the killer's deplorable act had more in common with the Austrian co-pilot, who purposely crashed a passenger plane last year, taking more than a hundred innocents' lives? Both were terrifying, incomprehensible acts committed by lonely, single, males with psychological problems.


    Personally, I rather enjoyed it when ... (none / 0) (#87)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:07:55 PM EST
    ... they played (misappropriated?) the Rolling Stones' "You Can't Always Get What You Want" as Trump walked out to introduce Gov. Pence. Given yesterday's stories as to how he had second thoughts about the selection, but got locked into naming him as his running mate when Pence himself leaked the news, the song was most befitting the moment.

    NYT politics section (none / 0) (#98)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:55:15 PM EST
    addresses the process whereby Gov. Pence wooed Donald Trump.

    Sure (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:56:44 PM EST
    He knew he was going to lose the race for governor.  Now he can blame Trump for losing.

    Oh, man (none / 0) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 01:29:09 PM EST
    Trump supporters are very unhappy with Pence's interview with Hannity last night apparently since Pence couldn't give a straight answer to his tweet about Muslims.

    Dodged a bullet, not really (none / 0) (#30)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 01:44:04 PM EST
    Think of Newt, Christie and Pence as different types of bullets: Newt  is incendiary, Christie is a hollow point and Pence an armour piercing (Teflon) bullet.

    All three will kill you.

    OMG OMG OMG (none / 0) (#31)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 01:53:21 PM EST
    The Trump-Pence show is already a disaster.

    Some reactions to that "introduction

    This week is going to be fun!

    I wonder (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:18:34 PM EST
    if Trump is going to attempt to figure out a way to talk about himself every night at the convention.

    a week of fun (none / 0) (#36)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:15:01 PM EST
    at the smug & insular Blue Nation Review <yawn>

    will this move a single Trump supporter or undecided voter to Hillary's column?

    doubtful - imo, of course


    Negative comments & dismissive retorts (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by christinep on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 05:23:22 PM EST
    in the course of a campaign is no more than a side-car.  I agree that it is paramount--especially in close, battleground states--not to take anything for granted.  Political events happen quickly; perceptions can and do change just as quickly.  

    In the past, I tend to think that a number of dedicated Democrats can fall for our own brand of thinking, our own argument, sometimes to the point of seeming condescending to the voters that most need persuasion.  Yet ... outlets such as dedicated blogs, liberal leaning organizations should be expected to fuel their political energy needs during the campaign season by a sometimes more pointed commentary among those who hold similar opinions.  The fact that commenters feel strongly and able to vent political comments in like circles--so long as kept within decency expectations and so long as we realize that any number of people also have access to our words--is simply part of the political campaign process.  (But, I do take seriously your caution about not presenting a smug face as well as taking care not to fall for our own self-righteousness.)


    GOP voters are more (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:08:17 PM EST
    bandwagon voters than Dems.

    If the Republicans smell a loser, the jump ship, and turn-out is depressed.

    Markos was all over this issue of over confidence, opining basically to forget that, and enjoy the good news, as it builds enthusiasm.

    Markos was on to something.  I don't think Dems are over confident.  And Dems tend to worry too much.  So, I will enjoy the good news.


    That is (none / 0) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:20:19 PM EST
    what the Dem convention is going to be for. And the GOP convention may end up running voters off.

    it's this kind of smugness (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:34:49 PM EST
    at the Blue Nation Review & here at TL that signals fear & even a nascent desperation

    Nate saw & heard what he saw & heard in DC, the same thing i am seeing & hearing in more intimate settings even here in Oakland

    but go ahead & kill the messenger

    unlike Nate, i do feel a stake in this election

    Trump doesn't have a chance in CA, but i hope Hillary's supporters in the swing states wil! look up periodically from the Blue Nation Review (& maybe stop trashing the voters Obama smugly insulted in 2008 when he thought only the "creative class" was listening)


    We have (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:50:05 PM EST
    no idea if he is telling the truth. We have had plenty of concern trolls NYC Nate being one of them shopping nonsense. Don't automatically believe what he is saying. He could have completely made up the entire statement.

    I for one have not been insulting the voters that Obama insulted however who NYC Nate is talking about are probably the people who WERE Obama voters in 2008 and 2012 since he carried well over 90% of the African American vote.


    you can't even hear yourself <shrug> (none / 0) (#48)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:55:03 PM EST
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 03:10:19 PM EST
    I can tell you I live in an area with quite a few Trump supporters. I have acquaintances who are Trump supporters. So if that's the case then my opinions are at least as valid as NYC Nate's because they are both anecdotal and Trump's supporters basically want things to be the way they used to be decades ago. Their present is so sadly miserable that returning to the past seems to be their only hope. And they are angry at the GOP establishment for promising this return to the old social order for decades and not delivering.

    And I know a lot of Republicans who are not going to vote for Trump and who literally detest him. Some will vote for Hillary and some will just frankly sit home.

    It seems that this is possibly a year of a political realignment.


    It depends which voters (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:11:54 PM EST
    Those who want to go back in time when America was greater (and whiter) are simply not reachable.
    No need to pander to such voters by abandoning progressive principles.

    Those who are concerned about the economic deck being stacked will find Trump offers nothing but more trickle down.   Dems can break through that. Trumka and the unions will help with this.


    You, too? Huh. (none / 0) (#56)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 04:43:35 PM EST
    Nate saw & heard what he saw & heard in DC, the same thing i am seeing & hearing in more intimate settings even here in Oakland.

    Did he?  And you know this is a fact how, exactly?  There's actual evidence out there which refutes his (and your) claims that this is somehow representative of something larger ... assuming there true stories, of course.


    A guest on Bill Maher's (none / 0) (#66)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 05:53:15 PM EST
    show was Frank Luntz, the Republican pollster/pundit.  A contentious and incoherent rant ensued with Maher, starting with Maher's notice of his high-top tennis shoes, each a different color. Bill thought it not a good look, and one too old for Luntz's age.  This set off Luntz, all the more: a lie-laden diatribe against Mrs Clinton, that Maher's calling out had no response.  

    Bottom line: When Maher asked who would win if the election were held today, the right wing pollster reluctantly admitted that it would be Mrs. Clinton. And, that is what I heard. On TV.


    By three points, Luntz said (none / 0) (#69)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:05:14 PM EST
    And Luntz said he needed to know the rules of the debate to know who would win in November.  What does that mean?

    Yeah, that was weird (none / 0) (#94)
    by ruffian on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:27:28 PM EST
    Only thing I could think of is whether the candidates will be allowed to address each other directly. That is about the only rule they still change up now and then.

    Does he think if Trump gets to shout 'Lyin Hillary' right at her, it will help him? Or hurt him?


    The agony (none / 0) (#76)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:53:36 PM EST
    of Frank Luntz. His dog whistles and approved word list no longer seem to be effective.

    To me the biggest indicator that Trump is bad news for the GOP is the way they actually have been acting.

    Jeb Bush does an op ed stating that Trump is not the GOP. Good luck with that one Jebbie.


    Addams, there is a poll out (none / 0) (#73)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 06:20:15 PM EST
    that shows Trump with zero--zero--support from African Americans.

    These anecdotes are not reliable.

    Zero Blacks support Trump in Ohio and Pennsylvania--according to WSJ.

    Those polls were released on July 13, 2016.  Trump's racism won't sell to many, many people.


    But (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 07:00:34 PM EST
    .....I know people.....

    all righty, then (none / 0) (#81)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 07:26:23 PM EST
    i can't speak for Nate, & anyway he says he doesn't care who wins

    but as a two-time voter for Hillary in presidential primaries, i'm relieved that you saw a POLL

    my own eyes & ears simply cannot compete with the incontrovertible evidence & intellectual heft of a POLL

    i would thank you for setting me right, but between the time i reported my anecdotal experience & the moment you told me about the POLL, i learned that Hillary is in no trouble whatsoever, thanks to reports that Mike Pence had "dinner" (at 4 pm!) at Chili's (ick)

    i don't know whether Mike Pence had his Chili's "dinner" before or after you saw the POLL


    It is objective evidence (none / 0) (#82)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 07:34:18 PM EST
    And, I am not sure what your point is.  Are you just "concerned?"  Or, are we going again to fetishize the so-called Reagan Democrats one more time?

    Hillary need only replicate the Obama coalition.  She is doing that.

    But your point is well taken:  I have always thought that voters vote for the GOP not because of economics, but because of "cultural" reasons.  Trump is showing just how true that is.  His supporters don't really care about foreign policy all that much.  They don't care that Trump blames W for Iraq.   They just want Trump to say bad things about Muslims and say America is great again.   Frankly, I don't think we should spend a nanosecond going after such voters.

    Better to drive up core Dem voters.

    The GOP voters we can get are the GOP women in the suburbs.  


    There (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 07:52:50 PM EST
    aren't any such thing as "Reagan Democrats" anymore. They are all pretty much dead. What we do have is working class whites but the working class whites in 21st century America are a lot different than the ones back in 1980. A lot of them these days are people employed in service industries.

    And frankly most of Trump's supporters are older and there's a lot of white working class voters that are young.

    But if the polling is right Hillary ads college educated white voters to the coalition.


    Yep, not many Reagan Dems left (none / 0) (#103)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 09:10:07 PM EST
    But many Dems, like Tweety, still pine after them.

    did you note (none / 0) (#105)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 09:13:51 PM EST
    Tweety's salivating (well, more than usual) over Pence's "barnstormer" of a speech?

    No, but Tweety (none / 0) (#108)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 09:54:25 PM EST
    is not a good barometer.  His freak out over Obama's first debate in 2012 was over the top.  He just panicked unnecessarily.

    the Reagan Dems (none / 0) (#86)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:02:34 PM EST
    have not been Dems for a while

    if you look at Nate's & my earlier comments, we are both reporting interactions with black Trump supporters, Nate in DC & myself in Oakland

    is this meaningful? are some people lying to pollsters? i don't know, but i can tell you that the black Trump supporters i know are quite circumspect about it

    most of my black friends & acquaintances are for Hillary, as expected, & Trump supporters of any demographic make no difference in CA

    but my actual concern, since you asked, is the swing states where Trump may be pulling a minuscule amount of black support at the same time that the Dems are alienating working-class white voters who actually did go for Obama in 2008 & 2012


    Obama (none / 0) (#90)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:13:08 PM EST
    did poorly with white voters, the same number as Dukakis got in 1988. The only difference now is that there are enough minority voters whereas you can win with only 39 to 38% of the white vote.

    Mostly the polls are showing that while Trump might be doing well with working class white voters he is losing college educated white voters that have voted for the GOP continuously since the 1950's.

    There are black Republicans and frankly I would expect Hillary to not do as well with African Americans as Obama did. I mean Bill got around 90% back in the 90's but Obama got at least 95%. There's no way she's going to get that number with African Americans.


    Hillary will do fine (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by MKS on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 09:12:17 PM EST
    with African  Americans.

    No reason she would do worse than Gore or Bill with that group.  And Obama supporters will support Hillary to protect his legacy.


    Also, though nycnate is talking about (none / 0) (#92)
    by ruffian on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:22:44 PM EST
    Trump's racism as it applies to African Americans, his racism is much broader than that. He is going to get massacred in the Latino vote, which is a growing group.  Not to mention the white voters among the usual block of swing voters the although they may not identify as Democrats are going to be turned off by the mean spiritedness of this horrible man.

    I mean, I can't see anyone but the most diehard GOPers voting for him. that is why he had no choice but to pick Pence to shore up that base.


    Pence (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:32:04 PM EST
    also undercuts his "outsider" message. Frankly I think he might have been better off picking the general because he could not have been any worse than Pence and it would seem Trump instinctively knew Pence was a bad pick since he tried to get out of picking him.

    Yep - turns out that polls (theRE are many) (none / 0) (#107)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 09:42:32 PM EST
    ... are much more convincing than someone's anecdotal story. Also much more convincing than strawman arguments.



    hey, Yman (none / 0) (#111)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 10:58:19 PM EST
    haven't seen you for a while

    you must have had your nose buried in Iranian Nuclear Deal, the blockbuster work of fiction by Ben Rhodes, MFA

    great beach book - the sand is right there for burying your head, or for pounding


    Been at the beach a lot (none / 0) (#114)
    by Yman on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 07:31:03 AM EST
    ... but I'm not the one with my head buried in the sand.  I prefer facts and reality to silly, specious claims offered with no data or evidence.  I understand why others don't.

    But, all my tenants (none / 0) (#119)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 12:13:06 PM EST
    believe what I think.  And, all the people on my payroll, also too.

    Fear? (none / 0) (#89)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:10:23 PM EST
    Speak for yourself.

    i am indeed afraid (none / 0) (#95)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:28:19 PM EST
    of a possible President Trump

    & you're right - i should have said much more clearly that the type of smugness on display at Blue Nation Review signals, to me, an ill-advised overconfidence that, to me, indicates anxiety that has not been resolved or maybe even acknowledged

    i wish i shared your sunny equanimity


    Willl it move ... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 04:39:51 PM EST
    ... a single Hillary supporter or undecided voter to Trump's column?

    Doubtful - imo, of course.


    The funniest (none / 0) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:21:43 PM EST
    one is Trump is filibustering Pence's nomination because it really did seem to be that way.

    That's like asking Mrs Lincoln (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:35:39 PM EST
    how she enjoyed her night out...There may be just a but of bias in the responses.

    Naw (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 02:50:43 PM EST
    that's the conservative response to everything.

    Pence (none / 0) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 05:09:02 PM EST
    "People often say, I'm praying for ya"

    But he has no idea what they mean.


    It's funny I did not remember much about Pence (none / 0) (#116)
    by ruffian on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 10:34:09 AM EST
    until I saw an old picture of him pre-white hair. Then it all came flooding back. He is truly odious. Just not as much of a loud mouth as his fellow travelers.

    He is an ideal target of opportunity (none / 0) (#117)
    by ruffian on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 10:36:41 AM EST
    for a good debating Dem VP pick since he embodies all of the right wing, evangelical, social policies of the last 20 years.

     I really do not want someone that will soft-pedal the differences, as I fear Kaine would do.


    Apparently (none / 0) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 12:00:49 PM EST
    Hillary thought Kaine would be a bad pick for VP in 2008 according to Game Change. I have no idea if her mind has been changed on that or not but I suspect it might be a Hispanic she is picking. Can you imagine the meltdown that Donald would have over that?

    Hope not (none / 0) (#122)
    by Nemi on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 02:32:18 PM EST
    that her mind has been changed. Now I have absolutely no way to know neither who she will pick or why -- pros and cons and stuff -- but after having recently seen a clip with Xavier Becerra on Fox News, standing up for Hillary Clinton in the most awesome and clever way, my money will be on him. If not Sherrod Brown, that is ... '-)

    Have you seen Tom Perez? (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by ruffian on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 03:52:36 PM EST
    He seems like he would be a great candidate.

    At one point (none / 0) (#125)
    by Nemi on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 04:50:37 PM EST
    way back, I was hoping for Terry McAuliffe. Not least because of his admirable loyalty to Hillary Clinton in 2008. Now I kind of hope that she will pick someone I've never heard of before. Then my expectations won't matter and I won't be disappointed, neither because of her chosing someone or because of her not chosing someone else. If that even makes sense?

    And ... did you notice how I sort of wriggled myself out of answering your question, heh. Guess that's sort of an answer too. :)


    Perez would be a great choice (none / 0) (#129)
    by JanaM on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 09:11:17 PM EST
    I agree. Perez is incredibly impressive. Smart and tough. And so far as I've read and heard his positions on issues are right  - as in correct - on most issues.

    Now whether or not he helps politically may be another matter.


    He seems very quick witted in every (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by ruffian on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 09:35:51 PM EST
    sense of the phrase. Hard to imagine him getting stuck for words in a debate or any setting. Very personable. I think he'd eat Pences's lunch.

    And has a wide enough resume to take over as president. Lighter on foreign policy than some, but stronger on domestic.


    According to politicususa (none / 0) (#63)
    by Nemi on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 05:09:06 PM EST
    Trump Had To Grab Tourists Off The Street To Fill The Room For VP Announcement:

    The news conference that should have been packed to the walls with enthusiastic GOP voters was reduced to a spectacle for tourists to gawk at.

    The room really did sound quite empty, with only sparse, infrequent applause. Weird 'spectacle'. Katt Tur, MSNBC, reports how

    ... it was typical in the way that Donald Trump spent a good portion of the time talking about, frankly, himself, relitigating the primaries, talking about all the deals he's made. Also, perpetuating this idea that he was against the Iraq war when he was not. He spent 29 minutes before he got to Governor Mike Pence.

    He also talked a lot, a lot, revealing just how insecure he actually is, about Hillary Clinton, accusing her of among many other things murder. And of course about Obama and Bill Clinton.

    But why is it that the media isn't yelling much louder about all his lies!? Do they even ever listen to what he actually says? And why aren't more -- why aren't they all! -- picking up the baton where Ruth Bader Ginsburg had to let go, and run with it!?

    Gov. Pence is the subject of much (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 05:13:18 PM EST
    scorn. Why?  He ate early dinner w/his family at Chili's in Manhattan. Poor guy can't win!

    Oh no ... as husband says (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by christinep on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 10:04:05 PM EST
    with a noticeable wink, I must be prejudiced against Hoosiers. Remembering a candidate we once encountered in southern Indiana (Elletsville,) the image of the man with actual hayseed in mouth and with large straw hat is smilingly there in local politics. Then, I remember watching our county chair (a former Lt. Governor)--myself as protégé young voter & precinct committeeperson charged with organizing the campus for Democrats--be the erudite speaker when in a campus environment or with newspapers only to turn on the charm and put on his real Sunday-go-to-meetin' clothes when hosting a fall bean bake to get out the vote.

    I learned a lot about grass roots & hard knocks politics in Indiana. Returning to Colorado and the brand of political approach here proved mild by comparison.  Ah reverie ... never to be forgotten was the tale of former Senator Birch Bayh's first campaign which he won during my freshman year.  The lesson that everyone learned and related from that campaign: The textbook illustration of Every Vote Counts ... in Indiana, there are 100 counties ... because of a vigorous campaign, the young Birch Bayh beat a legendary Hoosier politician ( Senator Homer Capehart) by 100 votes. Bayh became a Senator by marshaling one extra vote per county.  So ...

    Much as I am conditioned to find all of Pence's faults, I also know that his bland, flat-accented brand--like good Democrat Birch Bayh back when--can be surprisingly comfortable for listeners.  The lesson of working for every vote is worth remembering and practicing. It's hard for me not to take a desired voting outcome for granted--especially where this Repub Pres/VP team is involved--but, I learned in Indiana never to take a vote for granted.  Tortoises and workhorses and all that.


    Plus (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 10:24:57 PM EST
    No worry about asking for Swiss cheese on a cheesesteak or eating pizza with a fork.  Still with Chilis.  There's no wrong way to eat a blooming onion.

    Speaking of Indiana.. (none / 0) (#133)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 05:21:12 AM EST
    I wish Kurt Vonnegut was still here to give us his always-unique perspective on the Michael Pence phenomenon..

    He ain't no Elliot Rosewater.


    I hope (none / 0) (#78)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 07:14:31 PM EST
    nobody is heaping scorn on him for eating at Chili's. Nothing wrong with that but I have to say I guess it was not the kind of dining establishment that Trump patronizes. I frankly found it to be kind of sad really. There are a lot of really good restaurants in NYC, small businesses that he could eat at.

    Really the tweets he put out were just completely sad.

    Pence would seem normal if he didn't have the legislating record of a creep.


    when i was in NYC (for lunch) (none / 0) (#101)
    by linea on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:58:14 PM EST
    i was hurridly escorted down a dirty alley, pushed through an unmarked door, rushed up three flights of strairs in a building that shoukd have been condemned... to a loud shouting crowded jewish deli. totally awesome!!

    oculus --- when was the last time you ate at (none / 0) (#93)
    by ruffian on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:24:58 PM EST
    Chili's? I know you are more of an Applebys girl!

    O'Hare probably 10 yrs. ago. (none / 0) (#99)
    by oculus on Sat Jul 16, 2016 at 08:56:29 PM EST
    Never in Manhattan!  Il Gallipardo.

    Last time I ate at Chili's ... (none / 0) (#139)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 07:35:01 PM EST
    ... was about six weeks ago, when we were in Honolulu for the Democratic State Convention. We had arrived in town after 8:30 p.m. and since we hadn't yet eaten dinner, we were hungry. It's on the way from the airport to Elder Daughter's in east Honolulu, about 10 minutes from the house. I happen to like Chili's. And in a pinch, it serves its purpose.

    Reading your comment (none / 0) (#115)
    by Nemi on Sun Jul 17, 2016 at 09:41:46 AM EST
    at first I didn't know what you were talking about. Now I know. Too funny, great twitter-humour. :D

    Site Violator! (none / 0) (#146)
    by Nemi on Thu Jul 21, 2016 at 07:09:17 AM EST
    Cleverly sneaked in at the top: #143-144-145