Thursday Night TV and Open Thread

I am dreading watching the premiere of Queen of the South tonight. Why? Because it cannot possibly be as good as La Reina del Sur and nobody can take the place of Kate del Castillo as Teresa Mendoza.

[Added: I was right to dread it. It's absolutely awful. And a sacrilege. First, the actress playing Teresa Mendoza is nowhere near as self-confident or charismatic as Kate del Castillo. Second, it doesn't follow the plot of the novel from which it's taken. It takes the characters' names but then invents a plot that descends into stereotypes in the first five minutes Teresa Mendoza would never consume drugs. This show has her snorting white powder in the first scene. It also has her dead in the first scene, as if the rest will be a flashback. The Teresa Mendoza of La Reina del Sur doesn't die -- she goes off into the sunset, with the help of the DEA and to the consternation of authorities in Spain, pregnant and alone but in a gorgeous house on the ocean somewhere in a beautiful part of the world. [More...]

Second, the accented English on this new version seems completely phony and stereotyped. Spanish with English subtitles/captioning is so much better. Third, this show takes place in the U.S. and Mexico. Teresa Mendoza fled Mexico before she started trafficking drugs -- to Spain and North Africa-- she was Queen of the drug trade in Europe, not not in Mexico or the U.S. American cable TV networks should stay out of the novela imitation business, they do a lousy job. And no, Narcos was not any better (it was the story of drug cops not drug lords, and took too much license with the facts.)

La Reina Del Sur is available on Netflix with subtitles. Just watch the first episode and you'll see how this USA Network version sucks. Watch just the first episode of Pablo Esocbar: Patron de Mal on Netflix with subtitles, and see how much better it is than Narcos.

Back to Original Post:

El Senor de los Cielos Season 4 is winding down. At least there will be a Season 5, but it will leave a huge hole in my nightly TV watching. This season has highlighted corruption in Venezuela, corruption in the Mexican Government from the President on down, Aurelio's search for offspring to donate a kidney for his needed transplant and ties and rivalries between the Colombian and Mexican cartels. It's always a bit violent, but this week the Mara Salvatrucha, an uber-violent gang from El Salvador come to Mexico City, at the behest of Aurelio's overly competitive nephew Victor, to take over the street drug trade from the Colombians. They are the scariest looking gang -- on the show and in real life.

The actor who plays MS leader "Skinny", is so good he's almost too scary to watch. And only in Senor de Los Cielos - land would a TV series feature the head gang member having his rights violated by the cops, although it happens in real life.

By the way, seasons 1-3 of Senor de los Cielos are on Netflix. It's worth watching for the production value alone -- great detail in the houses, furnishings, scenery, clothes and makeup alone.

In the end, in all these shows, the drug traffickers end up paying a huge price, usually with their lives. There's not much glorification, just some humanization.

Update: Almost forgot: Check out Viceland's World of Sports , especially the first episode, Boys of Bukom and the episode about the inmate soccer players at Luzira Prison in Uganda. Really fascinating, and I'm not even a sports fan. Starting July 7, a new series called Black Market -- the promo I saw looked very promising.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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  • While y'all are sitting around watching TV, (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jun 23, 2016 at 09:35:54 PM EST
    change the channel and watch some real drama unfold.  The U.K. is currently committing mass suicide by (advisory) referendum.  The results won't be known until 8 am there, (2-4 am here).  At this instant, it isn't looking good for remaining in the EU.

    There's a bit of a lesson there for those who sneer off the chances of Donald Trump and his anti-immigration platform.

    By a narrow margin, Britain voted to leave. (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 01:09:06 AM EST
    The outcome likely creates some serious internal issues as well, because both Scotland and Northern Ireland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU, and SNP leader Nicole Sturgeon has said that her party will pursue separation if the vote to leave prevailed.

    But England is the Big Man on the British campus, and disgruntled English voters were decisive to the outcome. As of 2:00 a.m. EDT, the British pond has fallen by at least 10% to its lowest level since 1985. Will David Cameron remain as prime minister? We'll learn that in a few minutes when he speaks to the media.

    This is uncharted territory.


    David Cameron has resigned. Sort of. (none / 0) (#15)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 02:25:56 AM EST
    He will stay on for the next three months, until the Conservative Party conference this fall.

    Who will become prime minister? Boris Johnson? How will this affect the UK-US relationship?


    It's effectively a resignation. (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 06:00:29 PM EST
    And quite honestly, David Cameron should step down as British prime minister, because he phuqued up big time here. In seeking to secure a temporary political advantage over his rival Boris Johnson within the Conservative Party, he recklessly allowed the UK's membership in the EU to be subject to a nationwide public referendum. The passions he unwittingly unleashed in England have now placed his entire country's economic well being and political unity at very serious risk, particularly if the mercurial Johnson ends up replacing him as PM at the Conservative Party conference in October.

    Cameron didn't just "allow" it (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 06:11:09 PM EST
    he ran on making it happen.  thinking it would lose.
    after rejecting a vote in 2012 he said if reelected in 2015 he would make it happen.

    for one thing (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 06:15:56 PM EST
    the UK might have major political figure with funnier hair than Donald.

    Donald (none / 0) (#32)
    by ragebot on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:29:05 AM EST
    as a historian do you remember how narrow the 2012 presidential election popular vote was?

    Narrow? (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by vicndabx on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 02:00:43 PM EST
    wasn't it a 5 million vote difference?

    To be fair to ragebot, ... (none / 0) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 05:48:49 PM EST
    ... the 4-pt. margin which Obama held over Romney percentage-wise in the 2012 presidential election was roughly comparable to yesterday's result in Britain. But unlike what just happened in England, white ignorance and prejudice didn't carry the day in 2012.

    A contested election between two or more candidates is not the same as a yes / no vote on a public referendum, because the latter has direct and immediate policy implications.

    The two elections are similar only in the sense that both tend to highlight the extents of regional polarity and white nationalist animosity in each country, as they existed at the time each was conducted.

    The primary difference here, however, rests in our respective national demographics. So, before we rush to draw parallels between the two, let's first please remember that England is the Big Dog in the United Kingdom's backyard, with 53 million of that country's 64 million residents, while the United States is much more racially and ethnically diverse.

    Therefore, although English xenophobia apparently (and narrowly) carried the day in Britain in yesterday's referendum, Mitt Romney ultimately lost in 2012 despite having garnered the support of about three out of every five white voters.



    The US stock market will take a big hit (none / 0) (#4)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 23, 2016 at 10:19:07 PM EST
    when it opens in the morning. Dow futures are currently down 500 points. Since nothing will actually happen for at least 2 years, there's probably a good chance of a sharp rebound and some big money guys will make a killing as a bunch of little guys bail out of the market on the downswing.

    None of my business Man... (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:10:01 AM EST
    but there is a phone number that could help you with this problem.  855-2CALLGA

    Not a problem for me (none / 0) (#51)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 11:03:05 AM EST
    Good man... (none / 0) (#53)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 11:15:16 AM EST
    Just checking, for a second there you sounded like a guy I know at my OTB who rambles about how Pletcher's 2 year olds perform going turf to dirt first time on Lasix after breaking their maiden on the turf.  

    I'm not sure what all that means (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 03:34:03 PM EST
    but it sounds like something Damon Runyon would say if he were still alive

    BBC (none / 0) (#6)
    by ragebot on Thu Jun 23, 2016 at 11:01:38 PM EST
    predicts an exit

    I always found it (none / 0) (#16)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 05:40:11 AM EST
    Amazing that it has stood together for so long

    Each European country has a distinct history and culture, The EU, I think tended to diminish the cultures,
    The strict usage of the Euro (aside from the Brits) caused a huge problem for Greece, Portugal and Spain, they needed to have their own monetary policy to help alleviate the pain of the market crashes.
    The recent massive immigration to Europe I believe played a large role in this vote


    The European Union has held together ... (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 02:58:25 PM EST
    ... because most Europeans recall that two successive world wars were initially sparked and then fueled by nationalist fervor in Europe. The last one resulted in nearly 60 million dead and many tens of millions more internally displaced over the course of just six years of fighting, and left the continent utterly prostrate and in ruins.

    That collective social memory of shared catastrophe has tempered strident nationalism in most Europeans for the better part of eight decades, save for those persons whose politics tend to skew far right.

    President Franklin Roosevelt proved himself to be entirely prescient, when he told Congress and the American people in March 1945 that the desired ultimate results of the general policies which his administration was then crafting and proposing for Europe's eventual rehabilitation -- including his long-term vision for its collective social and military security through an economic union -- would likely not be fully realized for at least fifty years, and probably longer.

    As the last elderly members of the Second World War generation pass from the scene, it will be interesting to see if FDR's hopes for Europe's future will bear fruit, and whether any of the lessons passed down to the succeeding generations have actually taken firm hold on that continent.



    To paraphrase Mencken (none / 0) (#89)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 03:42:34 PM EST
    or was it PT Barnum? No politician ever went broke by appealing to the primitive tribalist emotions of the masses.

    The problem is that (none / 0) (#153)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 10:37:20 AM EST
    the union turned out more political than economic...the common man in England and through out Europe is well aware of the problems caused by unrestricted flow of Muslims that the Kings in Brussels seem to not care about.

    mass suicide? (none / 0) (#121)
    by pitachips on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 07:34:44 PM EST
    A bit much don't you think? At the end of the day life will go on and I'm sure in a few years once the logistics of the exit have been finalized, that we will find out that not much will have really changed.  

    As far as our election. Trump is supported by a minority of a minority. He's going to lose yuuuggeee.  


    Obama designates the Stonewall Inn.... (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by desertswine on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 04:29:12 PM EST
    as a National Monument.
    The new Stonewall National Monument will permanently protect Christopher Park, a historic community park at the intersection of Christopher Street, West 4th Street and Grove Street directly across from the Stonewall Inn in Manhattan's Greenwich Village. The monument's boundary encompasses approximately 7.7 acres of land, including Christopher Park, the Stonewall Inn, and the surrounding streets and sidewalks that were the site of the 1969 Stonewall Uprising.

    I never thought I'd live to see this.

    Makes two of us (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 04:32:06 PM EST
    RANT ALERT (again) (none / 0) (#155)
    by ragebot on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 11:37:28 AM EST
    Regretfully I am forced to repeat myself.  The mass pollution caused by ACE releasing toxic water from Lake O is getting worse.

    The mess is the result of Big Sugar buying pols starting with JFK continuing Ike's blockade of sugar from Cuba.  Every president, both R&D have continued to allow Big Sugar to destroy the environment South of Lake O.  Not to mention congress passing laws limiting what the EPA can do to regulate the pollution.  Both Bush and Clinton did all they could to continue this process.  Both Hillary Clinton and Marco Rubio are personal friends of the Fanjuls, sugar barons who have been buying pols for years.

    The most realistic way to protect the South Florida environment would be for Obama to declare Lake Okeechobee a national monument, something well within his powers that would be able to overcome all the bought and paid for pols on both sides of the aisle.


    I favor a Carl Hiassen-esque solution (none / 0) (#157)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 12:13:22 PM EST
    maybe involving giant mutant Alligators, which can kick off the plan by eating the land developers.  Move on to Disney World's management and security staff - giving the employees a running start, if they're paying attention.  Florida can morph from the land of fat and happy human parasites to a land of fat and happy gators.

    It's what I keep telling everyone (none / 0) (#159)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 02:58:47 PM EST
    People are not supposed to be living here

    Global (none / 0) (#164)
    by FlJoe on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 07:21:51 PM EST
    warming will solve that soon enough.

    Maybe a hurricane (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by ragebot on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 08:17:56 PM EST
    I (none / 0) (#180)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 07:15:12 AM EST
    am of a mind that a well placed and timed hurricane and timed could wipe out Miami beach... forever.

    That city is already fighting a losing battle against rising sea levels. A 10 foot storm surge would probably be a fatal blow. Rebuilding that city at it's current elevation would be sheer madness.


    Talk about a cool cat! (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by vml68 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 05:16:20 PM EST
    Now for something truely important (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by ragebot on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 08:10:53 PM EST
    69 minutes hardly seems enough to answer all the questions.

    My bet is Cersei and Tommen definitely die with possibly the Mountain but there is a good chance the Mountain will live to fight the Hound.  Remember Cersei has access to lots of wildfire below King's Landing and the High Sparrow got Tommen to eliminate trial by combat so Cersei is in real trouble.  Lancel may or may not die, but he is in for a hard time.  The real question is what happens to Margaery if King's Landing goes up in flames.  Smart money is Arya kills several Freys and maybe Jamie as well.  Melisandre says she is 800 years old but that may come to an end if the Onion Knight Davos gets revenge for what she did to Shireen.  For old times sake is Gendry still rowing, he is after all Roberts true heir.  Finally as all true Stark fans know winter is coming and Brand now has the mark which may allow the white walkers to cross over the wall if Brand does.  

    and (none / 0) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 09:40:55 PM EST
    Howland Reed and Jon Snow and the Tower of Joy.  Varys and Tyrion and the Mother of Dragons and the Unsullied and the Dothraki hordes and enough ships the get home.

    youre right.  69 minutes hardly seems enough.


    omg (none / 0) (#172)
    by linea on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 02:33:28 AM EST

    There are no spoilers (none / 0) (#181)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 07:20:25 AM EST
    In either of this comments.

    I'm sure there will be at least one cliffhanger (none / 0) (#185)
    by ruffian on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 11:44:05 AM EST
    I would not even want all these questions answered in one episode!

    No (none / 0) (#186)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 01:03:07 PM EST
    I was going to say that.   But I do expect some casualties.

    AWSUM!!!! (none / 0) (#190)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 09:19:50 PM EST
    Not that many questions unanswered.  Except who wins.  My money is on the dragons.    

    Loved Maester Pycelle and the angry birds.   Loved Tommens swan dive.  Sorry about the Tyrell's but we still have Lady Olena and the lady's are still in charge.

    I have to admit it was fun seeing Cerci win.  Dies that make me a bad person?


    I think I am on the record as wanting to keep (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 09:34:40 AM EST
    Cersei around, but I had not dared dream so big. That was fantastic.

    Glad I did not put money on Margaery, poor thing. She did catch on, but too late to get out.

    Tommen was not in the same league as any of the Stark or Mormont girls. Maybe it was the inbreeding.  He made the right decision.

    The Jon Snow plot got more interesting too. He is elevated solely by the virtue of bravery and charisma, no strategic sense whatsoever. Will Littlefinger win in the end?

    I got verklempt when Tyrion became hand of the queen.


    I will give credit to Jon Snow (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 09:42:42 AM EST
    for being the only one to keep their eye on the main threat - the Whitewalkers. Maybe he is the master strategist after all.  I tend to underplay that because it is not my favorite plot line.

    so - how is the info about his parentage going to get spread? Is Bran now stuck in that tree?  I don't get it.

    Also I loved the opening sequence of Tommen and Cersei getting dressed, with just the music in the background.


    Yes (none / 0) (#198)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 09:51:41 AM EST
    The opening was fantastic.  Everyone putting on their finery.   But Cercis Darth Vader look definitely wins.

    So who do you thnk the younger brother will be who kills her.   You really can't go wrong.  Either Tyrion or Jaime would be great.   But I think we now know who the younger more beautiful queen who dethrones her is.  And she's not a Tyrrell.

    I'm glad they didn't let the walkers cross the wall yet.   There is still time for Bran to figure out he can't go south.    I expect the next season will be about the Crown.  With the White Walkers making the final season exciting.


    My money is on the King...uh, Queenslayer (none / 0) (#203)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 10:51:16 AM EST
    I think she'll go too far and there will be a twinocide situation.

    Maybe for the same reason? (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 11:08:52 AM EST
    He originally earned the name?  I'm bettin there is probably more wildfire and a similar choice is definitely possible.

    The Tyrion-Cersei -Jaime (none / 0) (#205)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 11:28:39 AM EST
    relationship is going to be so interesting...that's why I was hoping Cersei survived at least one more season. That is a story that needs more time.

    Winter is coming (none / 0) (#199)
    by ragebot on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 09:53:35 AM EST
    and Jon Snow seems to be the only one to understand it.  I have to wonder how effective dragons will be in the snow.  It could go either way.

    What might be most interesting (none / 0) (#200)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 10:06:04 AM EST
    Is if the series goes one way and the book(s) another.

    It still isn't clear if the book comes out before the next season.


    I (none / 0) (#210)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 07:40:20 PM EST
    Read all the books before the HBO series started,

    And they have changed small things from the book.

    Am hoping that this season was based on Martins notes as he finishes up the latest edition.

    Or it is now 2 totally different visions now competing with each other


    Winter is HERE! (none / 0) (#202)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 10:49:33 AM EST
    It's official via birdmail. I liked the moment between Sansa and Jon remembering all of Ned's warnings. That was sweet.

    Is Cersei going to be honest with Jamie (none / 0) (#206)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 12:54:17 PM EST
    Though about how Tommen "left"? What was that BS about burning his body and throwing him in with everyone else's ashes at the sept? Or is that the appropriate ending for sons who disappoint?

    I think all her other relatives' ashes were (none / 0) (#207)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 02:00:55 PM EST
    in the sept too. That is what I got out of it. She is done mourning all of them.

    I think Jaime knows -someone would have told him.


    Did you see previously tv? (none / 0) (#208)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 04:17:09 PM EST
    Yeas- that was perfect (none / 0) (#209)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 06:59:19 PM EST
    Poor Jaime, always returning to King's Landing after some sh** has gone down.

    Also Tom and Lorenzo put out a podcast today discussing the whole season.  I don't always listen to their stuff cuz I'm not into fashion or a lot of pop culture, but this is really good. Can't get enough GoT dishing.  I like to hear them talk about the characters.


    OH! (none / 0) (#191)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 09:26:52 PM EST
    And Arya can cook!   Too.

    GIZMODO (none / 0) (#194)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 07:29:12 AM EST
    Been watching some of the marathon (none / 0) (#187)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 05:28:01 PM EST
    Run up to the finale.  

    On the Sparrow/Howland Reed thing.  I wondered if this was a thing and somehow the Queen was in on the joke.

    No.  Don't think so.  Margaery is definitely planning something but the Sparrow or Howland or whoever is definitely not part of the plan.  Fun watching her performance.  Subtle but clear.  Margaery has a plan and Sparrow probably won't know what hit him.


    Wonderful misdirection (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 09:29:04 PM EST
    I love it.

    TX abortion law goes down hard (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 09:26:23 AM EST
    Only Thomas ( of course ) voting to uphold the law as written.

    thanks for the heads up (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 23, 2016 at 08:52:31 PM EST
    for Queen of the South.   i forgot.  DVR now set.

    ive been spending a lot of time catching upon NETFLIX.  Currently in season 2 of DAREDEVIL.  its surprisingly good.  then Jessica Jones, Orange is the New Black, Bloodline, Peaky Blinders........ so much tv so little time.

    My daughter tells me Wentworth (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 05:47:04 PM EST
    is to Orange what the Wire is to SVU.

    In other words, a lot better.


    and (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 23, 2016 at 09:30:37 PM EST
    the heat index has been above 105 for days (weeks?) and for the foreseeable future so i expect to get a lot of catching up done.

    Yup...heat index in the 100's here this weekend (none / 0) (#21)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 07:56:12 AM EST
    ....will be watching OITNB. Looking forward to it. Forgot how much I loved those ladies until I saw a clip on Colbert last night. Plus I want that theme song stuck in my head for a couple of weeks - need to replace the sad song from Hamilton.

    Enjoyed (none / 0) (#17)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 05:44:52 AM EST
    Daredevil Season 1, Season 2 is on the watch list. Jessica Jones was very good.
    Am in Homeland at the moment, Season 3.
    True Detective Season 1 and Bosch are on the wait list.
    Not much time for TV in the summer, maintaining wildflower gardens (who knew) , blackberry and raspberry plants, tomato, zucchini and cukes.
    And weekends am up at 4 AM for the beach hike and search for the elusive striped bass

    IMO season 2 is better (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:20:42 AM EST
    At least so far.  They have introduced The Punisher and Electra.   There may not be a season 3 because they are doing The Defenders.

    Douglas Petrie ("Marvel's Daredevil," "Buffy the Vampire Slayer") and Marco Ramirez ("Marvel's Daredevil," "Orange is the New Black") are set to return as showrunners to the Marvel Universe for the Netflix Original Series "Marvel's The Defenders"!

    Marvel's The Defenders" will star Charlie Cox, Krysten Ritter, Mike Colter, and Finn Jones, all reprising their roles as Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist, respectively.

    Power to the people! (none / 0) (#5)
    by Redbrow on Thu Jun 23, 2016 at 11:01:02 PM EST
    Congratulations UK!

    It is refreshing to see real democracy is still possible instead of the globalist toxic mimic version of so-called democracy.

    British Pound (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 23, 2016 at 11:02:12 PM EST
    drops to 31 year low.

    Japan Nikkei down over 8% (none / 0) (#8)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 23, 2016 at 11:08:48 PM EST
    Scotland and Northern (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 12:20:36 AM EST
    Ireland voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU. There is already talk of them leaving the UK.

    And an EU official has stated that the EU, in hopes of discouraging other countries from leaving, will make this break as difficult as possible on the UK.

    This will not be pretty.


    It just proves (none / 0) (#12)
    by Redbrow on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 12:41:08 AM EST
    How right the brexit voters are to take back power from these vindictive unelected Brussels bureaucrats.

    No. The vote to leave strikes me (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 01:27:18 AM EST
    as a "cut off your nose to spite your face" act by the Brexit supporters. The British economy is going to take a major, and possibly long-lasting, hit.

    Britain would have been better served by staying in the EU and pushing for reforms within the EU.

    And then there are the xenophobic and racist elements in the Brexit group.


    The alternative is... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:31:05 AM EST
    working class Brits continuing to take it in the arse in the EU/Global Economy.

    Pick your poison...same as it ever was for the common person I guess.  


    Except (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by jbindc on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:53:30 AM EST
    The regions that voted for Leave are also the most economically dependent on the EU and least likely to be affected by immigration.  

    Congrats to them - the "scary brown people" argument snookered them.


    that's not the alternative (none / 0) (#37)
    by CST on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:48:36 AM EST
    Alternative implies that leaving the EU is going to change anything for the better in that regard.

    True (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:54:16 AM EST
    Just listening to a discussion about how upset the people who voted for separation thinking it would end all those globalization and immigration problems when they find out it will not change much of anything on those fronts.  

    Not probably unlike the people who vote for Trump and learning there will be no wall or mass deportations.


    One thing that will change (none / 0) (#41)
    by ragebot on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 10:09:43 AM EST
    is the size of hair dryers in the UK.  Ads in favor of Brexit stressed the EU was imposing a size limit on the wattage of hair dryers that could be sold in the EU; along with a lot of other EU regulations that were unpopular in the UK.

    A lot of the downside of the Brexit will be that large international banks in London will take a hit.  To many folks in the UK it seems like the 1% is taking a hit while the 99% get to enjoy having big hair.


    Being a life long fan (none / 0) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 10:18:22 AM EST
    Of big hair this is good news.

    Watching funny coverage of Donald getting off his chopper in Scotland.   Everyone expected him to talk about the news of the day and he starts droning on and on in what was basically an infomercial for his golf course and hotel there.

    Nicole Wallace was very funny.  Practically banging her head on the table and saying she was completely "gob smacked" that he was not talking like a presidential candidate.  


    Donald (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 10:20:34 AM EST
    "When the pound goes down, more people come to Sctoland"

    That should work.


    As of June l, 2016 (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 10:54:52 AM EST
    Trump did not know what BREXIT meant.  After prompting,  ...oh yeah, leave.

    All he needed to hear was that it as a reaction (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 10:56:33 AM EST
    against immigration. He couldn't give a fig about the economic issues.

    Exactly... (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 10:10:12 AM EST
    But they know the EU ain't working for them, so I take the Brexit as a desperate and exasperated maneuver.

    Globalization is here to stay, but people don't have to like it, and they will act out.  Sometimes wisely, sometimes unwisely...time will tell whether this helps common Brits or hurt them or a wash.  I'm not smart enough to know or dumb enough to predict.

    It's why Trump has support in strange circles here, people are hurting and don't know what the hell to do and will basically try anything over a status quo that ain't working for them.  That's a dangerous thing....it can lead to scapegoating, xenophobia, and all kinds of unsavory sh&t.  Which is why we need economies local, national, and global that don't leave so many scammed and left behind.  



    So wrong dog (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:08:57 PM EST
    Euro trading is London based, they lose all that and it's significant. That's only the beginning of what's lost.

    What triggered this has been the Conservatives the people sadly voted in creating horrible economic disparity (much like what has gone down in the US). Add to that Cameron's ploy....and knee jerk pain irrational voting reaction gets us this, and it is going to bring the little people even more pain.


    You can pretend all you want that Trump's (none / 0) (#58)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 11:47:55 AM EST
    rise, and the success of Brexit, are about people hurting economically, but the truth is Trump and Brexit are all about white people's racism and xenophobia. The economic talk is just an effort to, I cannot believe I am going to reference Palin, put lipstick on pig of racism.

    Dontcha think... (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 12:00:45 PM EST
    the economic struggles feed the racism and xenophobia?  Happy, secure people who feel they have been treated fairly by their leaders in government, finance, and industry are much less prone to find a dog to kick to take out their frustrations.

    I think part of it is old white natives find it hard to believe or accept their old white institutions would do them so dirty.  That's a hard truth to accept, that you've believed a lie all your life and been sold out by "your own"...much easier to scapegoat the immigrant or minority.


    I think racists and xenophobes find (none / 0) (#71)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 01:26:21 PM EST
    economic and institutional change a convenient, and more acceptable, cover story for their irrational hatred of the "other", in this case brown people and muslims.

    The White Aryan Nation and its compatriots did not rise up because of economic woes. It lives on in good times and bad.

    It does the economic justice movement a huge disservice to align it with the haters or use it to excuse their behavior and rhetoric.


    But I'd bet we find the Aryan nation... (none / 0) (#90)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 03:50:24 PM EST
    gets more nibbles during down times than good times.

    That was certainly the case for the Nazis.  Weimar Republic, Hyperinflation, Broke-Arse People...you know the rest.


    Yes yes yes (none / 0) (#93)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 04:18:28 PM EST
    too much stress and desperation are defiantly not conducive to lucid far-sighted thinking.

    It makes many prey to any bellicose demagogue who sounds like he has all the answers.


    Witness the popularity of talk radio (none / 0) (#98)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 04:33:28 PM EST
    televangelists, Trump and the Tea Party (the four Ts of the apocalypse) amongst the great outsourced and downsized.

    If (none / 0) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 03:34:06 PM EST
    you've ever lived in the south you would realize that there's not always an economic base to racism unless you don't think wealthy people can be racist.

    Wealthy racism... (none / 0) (#88)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 03:40:10 PM EST
    is behind closed doors racism...populist racism is a different animal.

    that's an interesting reaction (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by CST on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:00:22 AM EST
    to reading that Northern Ireland and Scotland are considering leaving the UK.  They might decide (I'd even say Scotland is a probably) to take back their own power from London, because they'd rather have Brussels.

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:09:17 AM EST
    England may go from "big man on campus" to poor cousin of the EU.   With the Queen turning Buckingham Palace into a bed and breakfast.

    The effects are going to be fascinating to watch.  If it's as bad as some predict it may even have the effect of not making xenophobia and racisism look so attractive to some here in our coming election.


    Because we have befriended (none / 0) (#136)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:15:34 PM EST
    Other families in the UK who have children who have the same syndrome as our son, or they have it themselves, we are worried.

    They were all already experiencing healthcare cuts, and Nigel promised them leaving the EU would fix this. Many needy people in the UK voted to leave the EU because of that promise, and today that promise was immediately broken.


    that sounded too much like (none / 0) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:23:25 PM EST
    i was hoping for hardship.  im really not.  just appraising in a cold and detached way.   i do that sometimes without thinking how it sounds.

    And very understandable (none / 0) (#151)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 09:06:24 AM EST
    When I can't do anything about something often my stance too. I have loved the worldwide group of families that has recently formed. It is hard to watch the UK people go through this. One really tears at my heart. His mom is deceased, his father has dementia and in a home, he's alone now and he is as FSS affected as my son is. Severe scoliosis. He has the added social challenge of being gay. He's very politically informed though, that is where I get most of my info of what is happening. He says others have it much worse than he does right now. His parents left him a home to live in.

    A unified Republic of Ireland... (none / 0) (#62)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 12:04:24 PM EST
    would be a cool side outcome.  

    most of what i read and see (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 12:09:49 PM EST
    this morning says Ireland Scotland are unlikely to leave to join the EU because they would be leaving to join something that is unraveling.  there is talk of several other EU member countries going the path of separation.

    France's National Front leader Marine Le Pen said the French must now also have the right to choose.
    Dutch anti-immigration politician Geert Wilders said the Netherlands deserved a "Nexit" vote while Italy's Northern League said: "Now it's our turn".

    also Italy and others


    And what do all these groups have (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 01:19:26 PM EST
    in common? They are the far right, racist and xenophobic parties in their respective countries.

    As this day goes on it becomes harder and harder to argue that all of this exit the EU talk  is about trade and currency agreements and the size of hair dryers. It is all about white people wanting to keep brown people out.


    I don't believe it can be explained... (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 01:32:28 PM EST
    as simply as racism either.  It's much more complex than that.  

    Racists and xenophobes are made, not born...economic inequities and scapegoating help make racists and xenophobes.  To deny that would be detrimental to the effort to combat racism and xenophobia.  I know one thing, the masters of the universe sure like it when we say it's just racism and xenophobia and nothing more...that's a renewal on their license to steal.


    Agree. It is more (none / 0) (#82)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 03:10:16 PM EST
    complex, interconnected as well as not necessarily, mutually exclusive. European racism is somewhat different than the American variety--owing to stronger forces against assimilation. UK racism is endemic to the culture, taught from an early age with disparaging nicknames for "foreigners," such as "fuzzy wuzzies."

    However, a sagging or inequitable economy can break out racism into an epidemic with political consequences.  For EU to work, countries such as Germany and UK need to accept a policy of permanent fiscal redistribution, sort of like New York permanently subsidizing  Mississippi. That is why the proponents of Brexit claimed that the UK could save 350 million pounds per week and use it for the National Health Service.  Of course, the ballots had hardly been counted when this claim was backpedaled and called out as being a mistake by the advocates of Brexit.    

    Another and critical component, in my view, was the ill-conceived austerity program, stubbornly adhered to despite its damage, to fight the recession. (fortunately, a policy not implemented here).  A policy not just of economics, but also, one of penance--for the working class, primarily. Lessons need to be taught. Add in fear and loathing, salt with scapegoating, and you have quite a stew.


    Lessons need to be taught... (none / 0) (#86)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 03:35:32 PM EST
    ain't that the truth...lessons that we learned in Kindergarten, while the international banksters must have been eating the paste.

    Deconsolidating their power can't be all bad.


    Casey, not just white people... (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by vml68 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 04:53:50 PM EST
    Employment Minister Priti Patel wants to hang on to her British Curry.

    Woman (and family) who voted without educating themselves about the issue - I'm full of regret.

    Why do some ethnic minority voters want to leave the EU?

    Why do some of us with migrant parents want to vote for Brexit?

    Just some examples, there are more out there.


    Another similarity to Trumpism (none / 0) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 05:26:00 PM EST
    People have all kinds of reasons.

    Have you seen the graphs (none / 0) (#79)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 02:33:29 PM EST
    re age groups (older) who voted "leave"?

    Been reading (none / 0) (#80)
    by jbindc on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 02:52:52 PM EST
    That something like only 40% of young people bothered to vote, though....

    I've seen several people interviewed (none / 0) (#92)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 04:17:02 PM EST
    Who say some version of "I just wanted to send a message but I could take it back I would"

    Also some talk of another vote.  Cameron says he's not  going to codify if just yet.


    Listening to an interesting exchange (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 04:41:30 PM EST
    On the subject of how this might effect our own election.  One quote (more or less) "does this give Trumo a better chance of winning?  And I don't think the answer to that is yes.  I think it opens people eyes to the ACTUAL chance he has of winning.  That doesn't improve his chance of winning necessarily"

    It goes on to explore the similarities of the relationship between Trump and Ryan/McConnel/Republican Party and the relationship between Cameron and Johnson.  With Cameron trying to manage this and thinking it would fail, much as many people think Ryan and company are doing with Trump.

    The upshot being this could raise the chances of ousting Trump at the convention.  While they still can.  Lesson taken.



    Digby (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 05:55:22 PM EST
    catches an interesting article about  the buyers remorse of the clueless
    One of them, a man named Adam, is harboring some rather immediate regrets.
    "I'm a bit shocked to be honest," he said. "I'm shocked that we actually have voted to leave, I didn't think that was going to happen."

    Apparently many Brits didn't know squat on the issue

    Adam is not alone, apparently. Google is reporting a sharp uptick in searches relating to not just the implications of Britain leaving the EU, but the basic functions of the body all together:

    The effect on American politics is actually unknowable as this time, much depends on how all this plays out. I do think Trump made it mistake by owning the "greatness" of this. Most economists predict at least some short term pain from this vote, with perhaps GB suffering the hardest and the longest, probably forcing Trump to  backpeddle(not that will hurt him). Even if a worst case Global recession ensues, Trump loses a major weapon, as certainly all fingers will point to the Brexit that he heartily endorsed, giving the Democrats plenty of cover.

    I am of two minds on the internal Republican politics of this, his clueless and cavalier comments on this historic day surely did not help him to look "presidential" but the vote itself would convince many Republicans that the Trumpian message can and does attract plenty of votes(at least across the pond)

    I am not sanguine about the American electorate's ability to understand or even note this cautionary tale(must less remember it in November). Meanwhile Republicans threw caution to the wind a long time ago and  so who knows what the heck happens there.


    It should show anyone paying attention (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 03:01:43 PM EST
    that there is no such thing as a 'message' vote. If you do not want something to win, do not vote for it.

    Irekand and Scotland (none / 0) (#154)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 10:41:16 AM EST
    would be blocked by Spain.

    FYI, Ireland is already an EU member. (none / 0) (#188)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 05:42:45 PM EST
    So is Scotland, as an autonomous member within the United Kingdom. It's yet to be determined if the Scots would have to apply for EU membership on their own and anyway, Spain hardly speaks for the rest of the EU community.

    SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon, who also serves as Scottish First Minister, is taking the public position that only England has opted out of the EU, and that her government has already informed the EU offices in Brussels that Scotland wishes to retain its own membership.

    Further, Ms. Sturgeon is also saying that since Scotland is a fully autonomous partner within the United Kingdom, she will be asking the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood to exercise its authority to formally withhold its consent to Brexit, in the hope that it might provide Westminster with sufficient excuse and cover to pause any efforts in Parliament to begin the process of formal separation.

    Does Scotland have a veto over Brexit? While some pro-Brexit advocates in Westminster dismiss that notion, Ms. Sturgeon points to the Scotland Act of 1998, which restored sovereignty to that nation under the British crown.

    Specifically, Clause 29 of that Act grants the Scottish Parliament the authority to legislate in the devolved areas for which it is responsible, while obliging it to ensure that its actions are fully compatible with EU laws.

    Therefore, per Sir David Edwards as part of a formal inquiry of the House of Lords, EU law has real force and effect in Scotland, by virtue of Westminster's own insistence when the Scotland Act was approved by Parliament and adopted in 1998. Thus, anything effecting EU law as it pertains to Scotland itself is the sole province of the Scottish Parliament in Holyrood, and not the Parliament's in Westminster.

    Sir David himself notes that "there might be certain advantages" in Ms. Sturgeon's arguments for those who desire the UK to remain in the EU, which can be seen as a none-too-subtle suggestion that Westminster should agree that Scotland can assert its right to withhold its consent to Brexit under the law. In effect, First Minister Sturgeon is offering the Cameron government an out, and she's further willing to take the political heat fot calling a halt to this folly.

    As for Ireland itself, reunification with Northern Ireland under the flag of the Irish Republic will not adversely affect its own status as an EU member.



    That will be a tough one, (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 04:48:22 PM EST
    because religion.  But, Scotland is likelier to go first. If you need a castle in Balmoral, I know an elderly lady who will be willing to sell.

    Many voters (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by jbindc on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 07:49:25 AM EST
    All over the media and Twitterverse are already waking up and saying, "Wait - I didn't think my vote would count!"

    Gonna be lots of morning-after regrets in the next few months.

    Meanwhile many of the EU chiefs are saying, "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.  Get the hell out."

    And Donald Trump is talking about golf courses and hotel rooms....


    Congratulations for -- what, exactly? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 05:56:58 AM EST
    Allowing a two-bit xenophobic wingbat like Nigel Falange, who doesn't know schitt from Shinola, to nakedly appeal to English voters' worst fears and instincts about "The Other," and talk them into voluntarily shooting themselves in their own collective a$$?

    In less than six hours this morning:

    • The British pound sterling has literally crashed to a 31-year low;
    • The world markets are in turmoil with initial losses in the tens of billions;
    • The British GDP has lost an estimated 15% of its value;
    • British PM David Cameron has announced that he's stepping down upon the election of a new Conservative Party leader;
    • Scottish Premier Nicole Sturgeon has openly denounced the electoral outcome and said bluntly that "Scotland's future lies with the European Union;" and
    • Sinn Fein leader Declan Kearney has publicly called for a public referendum in Northern Ireland on the question of political reunification with the Republic of Ireland.

    What an incredibly pathetic thing for you to admire! Is that all you're good for -- showing up to double down on stupid?

    You quite obviously haven't no friggin' idea regarding the destabilizing  forces that were potentially unleashed with that nationalistic temper tantrum. Not. A. Clue.




    The sky is fallling! (none / 0) (#74)
    by Redbrow on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 01:46:14 PM EST
    Why am I not surprised you despise true democracy?

    Grow up and open your eyes. (none / 0) (#83)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 03:29:56 PM EST
    The "Brexit" referendum was a generational temper tantrum thrown by older white Englishmen and -women ages 50+ who generally fear for the future and their place in it, because they tend to be ignorant, xenophobic and socio-technologically dysfunctional. They're seeking to turn back the clock to a self-perceived era which not only cannot be recreated at this point in time, but likely never even existed save in their own rose-colored and sepia-toned minds.

    Those citizens aged 49 and younger who went to the polls yesterday voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. It's too bad that only 40% of them turned out, because Mum, Dad, Gram and Gramps just b*tchslapped and kneecapped them.

    Pull your head out of your own arse and stop admiring the view from up there.


    Selfish xenophobic geezers, (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 03:38:47 PM EST
    lazy irresponsible youngsters...I've never felt better about being middle aged.  

    Generation Innocent!  lol


    give it time - when geezerhood arrives (none / 0) (#126)
    by ding7777 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 08:14:07 PM EST
    you too will become less social and lose stamina

    Did you see the recent study (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 01:03:23 PM EST
    concluding aging monkeys have similar characteristics?

    yes, I had just (none / 0) (#163)
    by ding7777 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 06:32:32 PM EST
    finished reading about it on a different blog

    lol (none / 0) (#173)
    by linea on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 02:40:51 AM EST
    old people are soo cute!

    Grow up? (none / 0) (#165)
    by Redbrow on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 07:30:13 PM EST
    But then I would become one of those evil old people you just demonized,

    The latest boogeymen to be marginalized by intolerant elitist progessives - the elderly.

    is there anyone you far left authoritarians won't marginalize? Who is left? Everbody ages until they die.

    Just keep deluding yourself into believing that no young people see through the globalist, anti-democracy socialist elite's plans and voted for brexit.

    Brexit: Dawn of a Populist Uprising


    FBI update on (none / 0) (#9)
    by ragebot on Thu Jun 23, 2016 at 11:33:49 PM EST
    Orlando shooter.

    While the shooter's sexual orientation is still not confirmed this blurb is interesting:

    In seeking to verify the reports, federal agents have culled Mateen's electronic devices, including a laptop computer and cellphone, as well as electronic communications of those who made the claims, law enforcement officials said.

    So far, they have found no photographs, no text messages, no smartphone apps, no gay pornography and no cell-tower location data to suggest that Mateen -- who was twice married to women and had a young son -- conducted a secret gay life, the officials said.

    The FBI is continuing to explore Mateen's past, but investigators now believe the men who made the claims are not credible, or confused Mateen with someone else.

    The FBi is still investigating? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Redbrow on Thu Jun 23, 2016 at 11:52:45 PM EST
    Their boss already declared "love is the most effective weapon against terrorism" not investigation and law enforcement.

    It was all a bunch of whitehouse propaganda to deflect from islamic terrorism just like Hillary declaring Benghazi was the result of a youtube movie.

    The gay community does not deserve to have this worthless terrorist wrongly passed off as being a fellow gay man without concrete evidence.


    Bernie (none / 0) (#20)
    by jbindc on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 07:55:24 AM EST
    Says he will vote for Hillary Clinton (as we all knew). Says it's not an endorsement (of course it is - there's no difference), and he is still not dropping out (loves the Secret Service detail and being shuttled around town and not having to stop at red lights).

    Yeah, then he changed it to (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by vml68 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 11:41:15 AM EST
    "In all likelihood, it will be Hillary Clinton," Sanders told CNN's Chris Cuomo on "New Day."

    From the same article...

    He also declined to say whether the time will come that he fully endorses Clinton, saying he is waiting to see what she says about his priorities. He also would not say explicitly, when pressed by Cuomo, that she won the nomination fairly.
    "I think the system has many, many flaws, but we knew what we were getting into," Sanders told Cuomo. "I'm not saying that they changed the rules. No, they didn't."

    Seriously, what a sore loser.

    I have to admit that this gave me a good laugh. I guess, St. Bernie the Socialist, is enjoying the trappings of power and privilege and is in no hurry to give it up.

    Sanders pulled up to the Capitol for a vote Wednesday morning in his motorcade, with police lights flashing and sirens wailing. The pomp didn't necessarily befit a vote on an amendment to the commerce, justice and science appropriations bill.

    Millennials not voting in the UK (none / 0) (#57)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 11:44:35 AM EST
    may have contributed to the success of the Leave vote. I have been reading that millennials supported by strong margins staying in the EU. They just failed to, you know, vote.

    Now he wants a position in her administration (none / 0) (#77)
    by jbindc on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 02:05:35 PM EST
    Oh man (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 04:13:10 PM EST
    So many ideas for that I have.  The mind boggles

    From the article I linked to earlier, (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by vml68 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 05:05:23 PM EST
    it looked like this is what he wants.

    In an interview with C-SPAN released Wednesday, Sanders said he wants to lead the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee, which has jurisdiction over many of the health and educational issues he has raised during his campaign.

    But it's not clear whether Sen. Patty Murray (Wash.) will give up her post as senior Democrat on the panel.

    "Sen. Murray has said that she won't be making any decisions like these until after the election and after conversations with her colleagues and constituents," said Murray spokesman Eli Zupnick.

    "But she loves the work she is doing on the HELP Committee to fight for policies that help women, students, families, seniors, workers and the economy -- and there is a whole lot more that she'd like to get done," he added.

    Keep trying to push the women aside, Bernie. We don't ever notice these things.

    Bernie's (none / 0) (#119)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 07:19:46 PM EST
    nexus of power was around the NY primary. At this point he has no ability to pretty much demand anything. If even after the DC primary he had suspended his campaign and endorsed Hillary he would have had some ability to make demands. At this point it looks like getting some of his people on the platform committee is going to be it and it's likely looking like he may not even getting a speaking position or if he gets one it will be 1:00 in the afternoon on a Monday or Tuesday.

    i wonder (none / 0) (#128)
    by linea on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 08:18:51 PM EST
    if there will be any bernie signs at this weekend's pride. or if everybody has moved on.

    Oh, but surely (none / 0) (#150)
    by Nemi on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 07:16:45 AM EST
    it's just a coincidence that his wish includes challenging (ousting) a woman? /s

    Bernie who? (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 08:54:04 AM EST
    Our stock market is plunging (none / 0) (#24)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:08:32 AM EST
    along with the rest of the markets in the world.  Anyone up for adopting an old guy with a boat and two cats?  Didn't think so.  It may be climbing very slowly as we speak.  I've always wondered, where does all that money actually go?  Is it real money or just numbers on TV?  It's real money when it comes to my measly Schwab account.  I'm not looking at it again, until closing.

    I am fairly sure you did not open (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by vml68 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 11:14:29 AM EST
    that Schwab account yesterday, so no need to worry about the daily stock mark fluctuations. Now, if the markets keep dropping for the next few days/weeks and the ^DJI goes below 16000, I would start worrying.

    As for where the money goes, it goes to the people who were on the right side of the trade :-)!

    My current dogs have never met a cat, so I don't know how that would go. But, I have a soft spot for old guys and love boats!


    Not sure how my solitary cat (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 11:42:08 AM EST
    would take to your two, and I do so hate Florida, what with its alligators and sinkholes and Burmese pythons and that damn stand your ground, but I like you and I like boats.

    I am not looking at my 401(K) for the next several days. Don't think my heart could take it. As I was watching the coverage of Brexit overnight I started wondering if I should rollover all my retirement funds into an IRA at the credit union. Of course, I know enough not to panic sell right now, but down the road a little? I just do not know. I am getting a little too old to safely count on everything going back up eventually.


    Maybe CG is right (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:11:06 AM EST
    And it will be a short term opportunity that will bounce back.   I don't think our pets would get along.

    one thing (none / 0) (#28)
    by CST on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:18:31 AM EST
    That a lot of people always seem to forget - buy low.

    I probably won't look too hard at the balance for a few months, but I might increase my 401k contributions.


    Oh, but then there's this (none / 0) (#78)
    by jbindc on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 02:09:14 PM EST
    Not sure about Schwab (none / 0) (#30)
    by ragebot on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:22:54 AM EST
    but it was fairly common knowledge that the market would open down and drop 500 points and then start to recover; just what is happening so far.

    Not sure if you know the basic concept of the movie "The Big Short" but basically shorting is agreeing to sell stock at a given price some time in the future.  You are betting that the price of the stock will go down and you can buy it cheaper tomorrow than it is selling for today.

    If your broker at Schwab was not making a play based on this information my suggestion is to get a new broker.


    You missed the memo, Rage (none / 0) (#31)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:27:37 AM EST
    The Brexit wasn't supposed to happen.  This is a surprise result.  Its advocates has already conceded defeat.

    'Whatever happened to Beeks?" n/t (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:33:00 AM EST
    What's this memo you speak of (none / 0) (#35)
    by ragebot on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:39:42 AM EST
    I have not gotten a memo in years.

    But I did stay up late last night watching the Brexit results and more importantly the stock market futures.  As early as 8:00PM EST the futures were down around 500 points.

    I don't want to get in trouble with potential spam issues but there are plenty of services that provide financial advice; some free and some at a cost.  Even before the market closed yesterday there was lots of shorting going on.  Guess those guys did not get the memo either.


    The word seems to be (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 10:48:38 AM EST
    The polls were mostly correct but the betting markets had it way wrong.  

    I was reading yesterday (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:42:56 AM EST
    There was more support for separation than the polls were showing.  I don't think everyone was surprised.

    lol. "those guys" were gambling, (none / 0) (#54)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 11:38:08 AM EST
    not even remotely comparable to making informed investment decisions.  

    At least in the UK you could have gotten defined odds at Betfair.


    Guess Soros missed the memo (none / 0) (#59)
    by ragebot on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 11:50:57 AM EST
    just like I did.

    He was shorting based on a Brexit win as early as 9 June 2016 according to this WSJ article which is behind a pay wall, but you can read this blurb:

    After a long hiatus, George Soros has returned to trading, lured by opportunities to profit from what he sees as coming economic troubles.

    Worried about the outlook for the global economy and concerned that large market shifts may be at hand, the billionaire hedge-fund founder and philanthropist recently directed a series of big, bearish investments, according to people close to the matter.

    What is happening at AP (none / 0) (#39)
    by ragebot on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:53:57 AM EST
    Yesterday I posted a link from AP to a story most would consider a negative take on Hillary's email mess.

    Today AP has a story at this link that most would consider a negative take on Hillary's daily calendar.

    Not sure if this is a trend or outlier.

    Neither (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 10:42:32 AM EST
    The AP have been Hillary haters for a long time.

    Yeah, I guess that's why AP Executive Editor (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 12:00:16 PM EST
    Kathleen Carroll took so much abuse for calling the Democratic Primary race for Hillary Clinton.

    What abuse?  Abuse like this and this and this and this.


    Omg (none / 0) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 03:36:27 PM EST
    Baish!t Sanders supporters having fits because the AP did the obvious thing and said Hillary had numerically won the primary.

    You got me.  That certainly proves the AP never writes negative stories about Hillary.  rage was clearly imagining things.

    Good catch!


    The editor was grilled on a Media Matters (none / 0) (#170)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 10:48:13 PM EST
    "Confirmation bias" (none / 0) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 07:12:41 AM EST
    Is possibly the funniest term to rise out of this looney toons election cycle.  They declared her the winner because of numbers.  Numbers are not biased.  They are numbers.

    They only seemed biased to Sanders supporters because they had grown so used to being coddled and lied to.


    Have you noticed (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 03:37:39 PM EST
    You have a new fan?

    I wonder (none / 0) (#45)
    by CST on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 10:41:36 AM EST
    If the Brexit vote increases Warren's chances of being VP.

    Probably not, but it should.  Populist anger is real and it's there for a reason.

    Just saw Austin Goolsbee (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 10:44:38 AM EST
    Saying it will definitely effect the Clinton campaign going forward.  He did not say how.   But you make a great point.

    I just hope it decreases Tim Kaine's (none / 0) (#60)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 11:53:25 AM EST
    chances of being VP.

    The vote in favor of Brexit (none / 0) (#64)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 12:10:51 PM EST
    was a bad decision for the UK.  Of course, it will muddle along economically as it has historically managed to do, not as robustly as staying with the EU, and, quite possibly, in the grasp of a recession.  But, it will eventually rebound, if not back to its previous-sized economy, but, at least, to a decent-sized one.  

    If fear and loathsomeness for the other was at the roots of the vote to exit, it will be a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face. A disfigurement that this as well as future generations will have to look at.

    UK has, in many ways, the best of the EU--it has maintained its own currency, thereby keeping non-Euro flexibility, while enjoying benefits such as the removal of trade barriers.

    But, the EU is not just an economic cost/benefit calculus, but a political and strategic project with the goals of peace, human rights and democracy.  The political and international security project of building a Europe that transcends the historic divisions and binds the European countries together.

    As with any political struggle to re-shape politics and policies, there will be inefficiencies and worries of loss of sovereignty. But, it can be improved over time, incrementally, and without revolution, especially avoiding the historic way of change: war.

    i would think... (none / 0) (#125)
    by linea on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 08:04:53 PM EST
    this is a problem for the uk only if the eu decides to act like a pouty brat. the eu has the option of simply continuing with the currently extablished trade agreements (and not cause financial chaos).

    Sure he divorced me (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:25:20 PM EST
    but I'm not going to be a pouty brat. He can stay here with his new girlfriend for a few years and I'll cook them dinner.

    ha! lol (none / 0) (#139)
    by linea on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:30:24 PM EST
    love it. you're so funny! that's the best analogy i've read since forever!


    On another note, the recently retired Seattle running back Marshawn Lynch dispenses with subtleties and makes a salient point.


    Birchfield v North Dakota (consolidated cases), (none / 0) (#66)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 12:39:23 PM EST
    Justice Alito, in considering it a crime for motorists suspected of drunken driving to refuse breath or blood tests, wrote in a split decision;
    that laws requiring blood tests violated the Fourth Amendment ban on reasonable searches.

    Blood tests are intrusive, and their reasonableness must be judged in light of the availability of the less invasive alternative of the breath test. (7 to 1, Thomas dissenting).

    Justice Alito also wrote that laws requiring breath tests are permissible. The physical intrusion is almost negligible, .."no more demanding than blowing up a party balloon."

    Moreover, Breath tests are capable of revealing only one bit of information, the amount of alcohol in the breath. Blood tests are different requiring piercing of the skin and extracting "a part of the body."

    In addition, it gives authorities a sample from which can be extracted beyond alcohol.  (7 to 2, Sotomayor and Ginsburg dissenting).  Clarence Thomas would not have required a warrant for either kind of search.

    Correction, (none / 0) (#67)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 12:42:20 PM EST
    The decision was 6 to 2, I included dead Scalia, in error.

    The decision (none / 0) (#68)
    by jbindc on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 01:16:57 PM EST
    Included Alito, Kennedy, Roberts and Kagan.  Sotomayor concurred in oart and dissented in part (where Ginsburg joined). Thomas concurred in part and dissented in part.

    Yes, thanks, (none / 0) (#73)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 01:35:19 PM EST
    I hoped to indicate the split decisions by breaking the discussion down to breath and blood, but  confused it, not to mention the Dead Scalia part.

    Yes it is (none / 0) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 04:31:10 PM EST
    Clearly never spent any significant time in the land of genteel racism.

    the comment you are replying to (none / 0) (#132)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 08:37:27 PM EST
    was deleted. Commenters may not call anyone a racist on this site. It is potentially libelous. That includes Donald Trump.

    the comments claiming (none / 0) (#133)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 08:40:50 PM EST
    he is a racist was deleted -- so there was no need for comments arguing he is not.

    Be careful in your comments. I have very little time to read them. When I see one that violates the commenting policy of this site, I may ban you rather than warn you. Especially long time commenters who should know better.


    They'be been doing that for a (none / 0) (#99)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 04:41:09 PM EST
    long time down there..though not just down there..the privileged class deflecting and redirecting the indignation of the exploited and struggling whites onto the blacks; a "safe" and relatively defenseless target..

    Also what Rush, Glenn, Fux and the Heritage Foundation do.

    Agreed. (none / 0) (#101)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 04:44:00 PM EST
    In the South, it travels across the economic spectrum.  Hence, an attraction of Trump--can say aloud rather than in hushed tones.  A major aspect of the disdain toward "politically correct."

    Not good at counting either I see (none / 0) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 07:42:22 PM EST

    The Justice Department sued his company -- twice -- for not renting to black people

    When Trump was serving as the president of his family's real estate company, the Trump Management Corporation, in 1973, the Justice Department sued the company for alleged racial discrimination against black people looking to rent apartments in Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island.

    The lawsuit charged that the company quoted different rental terms and conditions to black rental candidates than it did with white candidates, and that the company lied to black applicants about apartments not being available. Trump called those accusations "absolutely ridiculous" and sued the Justice Department for $100 million in damages for defamation.

    Without admitting wrongdoing, the Trump Management Corporation settled the original lawsuit two years later and promised not to discriminate against black people, Puerto Ricans or other minorities. Trump also agreed to send weekly vacancy lists for his 15,000 apartments to the New York Urban League, a civil rights group, and to allow the NYUL to present qualified applicants for vacancies in certain Trump properties.

    Just three years after that, the Justice Department sued the Trump Management Corporation again for allegedly discriminating against black applicants by telling them apartments weren't available.

    In fact, discrimination against black people has been a pattern in his career

    Workers at Trump's casinos in Atlantic City, New Jersey, have accused him of racism over the years. The New Jersey Casino Control Commission fined the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino $200,000 in 1992 because managers would remove African-American card dealers at the request of a certain big-spending gambler. A state appeals court upheld the fine.

    The first-person account of at least one black Trump casino employee in Atlantic City suggests the racist practices were consistent with Trump's personal behavior toward black workers.

    "When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor," Kip Brown, a former employee at Trump's Castle, told the New Yorker for a September article. "It was the eighties, I was a teen-ager, but I remember it: they put us all in the back."

    Trump disparaged his black casino employees as "lazy" in vividly bigoted terms, according to a 1991 book by John O'Donnell, a former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino.

    "And isn't it funny. I've got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it," O'Donnell recalled Trump saying. "The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day."

    "I think the guy is lazy," Trump said of a black employee, according to O'Donnell. "And it's probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It's not anything they can control."


    You obviously don't know the difference (none / 0) (#124)
    by Redbrow on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 08:02:57 PM EST
    Between accusations/hearsay and actual proof/conviction.

    Never (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 08:36:15 PM EST
    heard of anybody being convicted of racism. There is no legal or empirical measurement to be applied, thus there is no proof possible. Since very few people self declare as racists, everybody must be judged on their own words and actions while giving consideration to the testimony of associates and acquaintances.

    Bottom line is that racism is in the eye of the beholder, many people in America including many Republicans have decided that if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.....


    i do actually (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 08:18:22 PM EST
    no comment on Jackson 1999 vs 2016?

    I agree (none / 0) (#129)
    by Redbrow on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 08:28:32 PM EST
    Jackson is a typical flake politician who flip flops whichever way the wind blows.

    His praise was based on verifaible historical fact.

    His condemnation not so much. It is based on nothing but "dog whistles" aka unprovable racism allegations.

    Okey doke?


    i would say (none / 0) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 08:30:53 PM EST
    okey doke is perfect

    online comments do not convey (none / 0) (#134)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 08:43:23 PM EST
    tone or sarcasm. Comments (presumably) intended to be funny or sarcastic about racism have been deleted. In fact, you all really should move on to other topics. Open thread or not, race has been exhausted in this thread.

    question (none / 0) (#140)
    by linea on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:36:12 PM EST
    what does the Rate All button do? how do you give somebody a 5 if you like them?

    do you see the little numbers (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:45:57 PM EST
    below your comment?

    take your time.

    see the little circles beside the numbers?

    to rate a comment you click (touch with your mouse or finger) a little circle.  if you are successful it will make a smaller black circle inside the larger outline.  you can do this to as many circles as you would like to "rate"  
    or just one!
    the you click (touch with your mouse or finger) the "rate all" button.   and you will have rated a comment!


    btw (4.50 / 2) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:49:29 PM EST
    you do not see numbers or circles below your own comments because you can not rate your own comments.



    I'll be your surrogate on this 5 (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:53:38 PM EST
    it works! (none / 0) (#147)
    by linea on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:56:47 PM EST
    i love you!!

    Next to the rate all (none / 0) (#141)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:40:47 PM EST
    button is a button that says "none". If you click on the right arrow next to it, the "none" becomes a dropdown list between 1 and 5 for you to rate a comment. As to what "rate all" means, I have no idea.

    doesnt really appear to us, or to me, that way (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:47:18 PM EST
    no none button

    Me neither - never seen a none button or drop down (none / 0) (#149)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 04:35:05 AM EST
    Also I ever noticed the control to hide ratings that SUO mentioned below. Gonna give that a try for a while.

    i'm on an ipad mini (none / 0) (#145)
    by linea on Fri Jun 24, 2016 at 09:51:16 PM EST
    i see 1 - 5 radio-type options and the Rate All button. i don't see a None button or an arrow or a drop-down menu. maybe i'm just stupid. thank you for replying and trying to help {smile}.

    At the top of all the comments, and (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 01:56:38 AM EST
    below the bottom of the writing that J posts, is a line that says:

    Display: xxxxx   Sort: xxxxx   Rate? xx

    Selecting "No" next to "Rate?" not only removes the rating mechanism from your screen and thereby displays all the comments in a much more compact and efficient manner, but also raises both your maturity and IQ.

    Just sayin'...


    I have (none / 0) (#152)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 09:43:10 AM EST
    Only handed out 5's, except for 1 occasion, and it was a reflexive response which would fall in line with your maturity and IQ criteria.

    I hand out 5's for comments I strongly agree with (for the most part), or
    Make me laugh out loud


    was it somebody else? (none / 0) (#176)
    by linea on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 03:04:17 AM EST
    did you not give me a 5? are you not my knight in shining armour? nobody's ever given me a 5 before.

    Yes (none / 0) (#178)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 05:49:25 AM EST
    Your welcome,  And , no,

    I am no knight in shining armor. But thank you anyway

    At times you do not march in lockstep with prevailing "approved" opinion, I like that , and also that it coincided with my beliefs.

    Instead of adding my comment to something that has already been stated, I just add a 5.


    just finished season 2 of Daredevil (none / 0) (#169)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 09:48:00 PM EST
    its very good.  its really dark.  definitely the darkest comic book adaptation ive seen.  especially The Punisher.  always one of my favorite antiheros.  they went about as dark as you could go.  

    i would go for season 3 but settle for the upcoming Defenders.

    on tv or a movie? (none / 0) (#175)
    by linea on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 02:57:03 AM EST
    isnt daredevil an anti-hero super hero? maybe like deadpool?  a friend (male) took me to see deadpool. from what was explained to me, it was a very excellent adaption of a graphic nove. but really it was much too much for me. im sorry. should people expect daredevil to be the same?

    It's a (none / 0) (#177)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 05:48:51 AM EST
    Netflix series, approximately 10 to 12 episodes.

    Not like Deadpool, I would compare it more to the Batman origin and story. Season 1 was a little violent, but nothing like Deadpool.

    A Clint Eastwood spaghetti Western set in Hell's Kitchen, NY


    There are two seasons of 13 (none / 0) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 07:25:10 AM EST
    Episodes.  And you have not seen the second season.  It's very violent.  And there is no one in Batman like The Punisher.  Not even a villain.

    And it's nothing like a spaghetti western.


    Lol (none / 0) (#183)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 08:20:22 AM EST
    Batman origin, orphaned child, takes up crusade of saving the city from villains.

    Clint Eastwood spaghetti western, lone vigilante providing justice in his own fashion.

    Lets not get too literal, Daredevil is allowed to branch off of those main concepts.

    Thoroughly enjoyed Season 1 and will get to Season 2.


    George Will Leaves Republican Party (none / 0) (#171)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Jun 25, 2016 at 10:52:16 PM EST
    like really? (none / 0) (#174)
    by linea on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 02:44:11 AM EST
    seriously?  why exactly is george will not on anybody's list of people in the media you woukd like to kiss? hint: it's not cuz he's old.

    I saw (none / 0) (#184)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 09:49:35 AM EST
    that and it made me laugh. Seriously people like Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms didn't bother Will and Reagan's racial stuff apparently did not bother him either but all of a sudden Trump bothers him? I'm really astounded at all the people who are now saying all this bothers them when they have tolerated the same thing from most Republicans for over 30 years now.

    Amen to (none / 0) (#189)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jun 26, 2016 at 07:05:59 PM EST
    "The other thing I do want to say about getting information about the process from Lewandowski," Zurawik said. "Brian, if the folks at CNN, who I think have the best political reporters on television -- if you guys need to pay him to tell you whats going on inside the Trump campaign, give your money back, you're not earning your paychecks."

    "Let's find out the old fashioned way," he added. "By reporting it, not paying weasels to tell you about it."

    But the real howler was when they host told Jeffery Lord

    "To take viewers behind the scenes, I actually booked you days ago when Lewandowski was hired," Stelter revealed. "Because it is difficult to find Trump supporters to have on the air. That's why you were brought on board almost a year ago."

    Jeffery Fkgng Lord? I swear to FSM he gets more face time than Wolf Blitzer, you have to book him to stay away. Rarely does an hour go past without the likes of Lord, Katrina Pierson, Scotty Hughes or the other valley girl show up, always spouting their mile a minute Trumpian nonsense. Hard to find my arse.

    the list of GOPers skipping the convention (none / 0) (#193)
    by pitachips on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 07:14:32 AM EST
    Continues to grow. I realize this is the anti-establishment year with the GOP but when the crazies from Utah think you're radioactive, you may have a problem :-)

    They'll stay home collecting cash and gifts (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jun 27, 2016 at 10:25:05 AM EST
    from people who want stuff done, "unofficially."

    The Supreme Court says it is perfectly legal.