Super Tuesday: Trump vs. Republicans

The Republican party is imploding at the realization that it's been hijacked by Donald Trump. So many news articles are leading with the question of whether it's too late to stop him, or how he has turned the presidential primaries into a reality show, and how debased the conversation has become, as he's managed to drag his opponents with him into the mud. Others are questioning whether Republican legislators will be able to back him or work with him.

I'm not sure it matters whether Trump is the ultimate nominee. It seems like he's already shot the party through its heart. [More...]

Trump has never been a Republican stalwart or even much of a supporter of the party. He seems to me (and this is just my opinion) to be using the party as his personal stepping stone. His strategy may work, but at what cost to Republicans?

Trump was on Hannity's show last night and while there was no Twitter storm, he did get some attention for an hour or so (Nowhere near as much as The Bachelor.) Half of the Republican tweets I read were furious that Trump might have told the New York Times his position on the undocumented was "negotiable." He responded to Hannity that everything is negotiable. Then he backtracked on that and said "the wall" is not negotiable. This group of tweeters thought Hannity acted like Trump's lackey, and that Trump's politics are indistinguishable from Hillary's.

The other half, who support Trump, loved that Trump insulted Fox News (telling Hannity the network had a lot of "bad people".) This half absolutely hates Marco Rubio and mercilessly bashed Ted Cruz.

They all seem more than a bit delusional. (One woman tweeted she'd love to have Trump over for dinner because she's certain they would have so much to talk about and have a really interesting conversation. )

How can this Republican meltdown mean anything but good news for Democrats in November? As bad as the Trump attacks are now, they will only get worse if he gets the nomination. There will be more and more reprints of reports of his "raw behavior". More journalists will re-investigate his claims of wealth and success and report their findings. (It's not really breaking new ground.) I don't expect that any Republicans who now back Trump, but later get disillusioned, will vote for a Democrat. But I do think they may stay home -- which can only be good for Dems.

Shot through the heart, so who's to blame? The talk about this will go on for years whether Trump wins or loses.

< Justice Thomas Asks Questions | Super Tuesday Open Thread >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft

  • Display: Sort:
    Trump (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 05:56:12 AM EST
    would be nowhere if it wasn't for people actually voting for him. The GOP needs to look at itself. These voters are the product of years of Fox News and talk radio. The GOP has done nothing at all to change that trajectory over the last 25 years or so. So they are reaping what they have sown.

    It isn't just FOX - (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 06:11:09 AM EST
    It's television.

    What is it that we have done as a culture to make some of the general population so ignorant, misogynistic and bigoted?

    - Michealene Cristini Risley, Quora


    Neither Television nor FOX make people ignorant (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by CoralGables on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 08:05:08 AM EST
    People are ignorant by choice.

    And it's not new (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 08:15:15 AM EST
    The same people have been just as ignorant for decades.   Ignorant people being fleeced by republican politicians who tell they what they want to hear and then go to DC and screw them for  2-6 years, rinse and repeat.
    Guess what, they woke up.
    They are not buying the dog food any more.  If the leaders split from the voters who takes the party with them?
    Good luck making a party without members.
    The party will not split.   They can wail all they want, the party will not split.  A few prima donnas may with hold their votes but the vast majority of republicans will vote for the nominee.

    Even more this year than usually because, the court.

    This is theater.  


    They woke up???? (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 09:42:23 AM EST
    Woke up to what? They are just if not more ignorant today as they were 4 or 8 years ago. They media keeps saying they are mad, but they don't even know what they are mad at. Trump tells them that unemployment is skyrocketing and Mexicans are taking over the country. Both are complete falsehoods. This what they are mad about? They are not mad, they are stupid. Blissfully so.

    They woke up to Donald (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 09:47:47 AM EST
    Who is telling them exactly what they want to hear.   And trashing everyone who has screwed them for decades.

    This is an old conversation here.  The crazy right has been looking fir a leader since at least W.  They finally found it.   They found someone crazy enough to say out loud everything they believe.

    Is Donald conning them again?  I sure as hell hope so.   But we don't know that do we?    


    "theatre" (none / 0) (#7)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 08:25:59 AM EST
    Like I said, television.

    Tv (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 08:34:19 AM EST
    Doesn't make people stupid but it can sure help keep them that way.

    too much concentrated power. (none / 0) (#15)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 09:44:34 AM EST
    it's kinda like the net, so much power it pegs the needle on both good and evil.

    Wrong (none / 0) (#12)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 09:10:13 AM EST
     you keep saying the "party will not split", then what the heck are we seeing right now? I do not ever recall major party leaders implicitly or explicitly disavowing their leading candidate in such a way as we see now.

    You are 100% correct here

    They are not buying the dog food any more.  If the leaders split from the voters who takes the party with them?
     Good luck making a party without members.
    but let me turn that around good luck making a party without leadership, without coherent leadership the voting base becomes nothing less then an unruly mob. That's exactly is how I see the situation playing out for the short term.

    The SC will probably loom large to some of the Republican leadership in the fall but don't tell me that their own political hide will probably trump that in many or even most cases.

    The old guard is seeing their power ripped away, they will not be overly faithful to a party that has been "stolen" away from them.


    The paryt will line up behind Donald (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 09:41:21 AM EST
    Starting tonight.  Will Christie Whitman vote for Donald?   Probably not.   Will anyone care?  No.

    The thing about members makes me laugh.   Here's the thing lots of republicans are freaking out.   The voters are not.   They are, in fact, turning out in record numbers.   It will be interesting to see if that continues today.  


    I actually think (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by CST on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 09:44:46 AM EST
    There are a significant number of establishment Republicans that won't vote for Donald and would even vote for Hillary instead.

    That being said, I also think there are a significant number of Democrats who would vote for Donald.

    The math is just changing.  That's what makes it unnerving.


    Of course there is (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 09:49:19 AM EST
    We know this.   We also know new republican voters are through the roof.

    I guess (none / 0) (#19)
    by CST on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 09:52:45 AM EST
    I'm just disagreeing that all the rank and file Republicans will "fall in line" this time.

    How much that matters remains to be seen.


    According to exit poll stats I posted (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 10:03:29 AM EST
    the other day, about 17-20% of self-labeled conservatives voted for Obama in '08 and '12.

    People reason.  We can't simply call half the country idiots and leave it there.


    Thank you (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 10:05:44 AM EST
    What he said.  

    I've said before.


    I would say (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 09:56:07 AM EST
    Define "rank and file"

    There will be endorsements after tonight.


    Split... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 04:00:29 PM EST
    ... that is what they said about Romney, "Evangelics will never vote for him, the party is going to split", then reality sets in when they realize it's either the person they dislike or the GD devil.

    And FWIW, the party did somewhat split, and it wasn't over a decisive candidate, it was over a horrible president and some decided they didn't want to be associated with the failures they voted for, and called themselves the Tea Party.  If there is another split, it will be the same thing, some wanting to distance themselves from the brand, but not enough to actually leave it, IMO.


    This is (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 04:29:27 PM EST
    way different, sure there was rumbling among the Evangelicals about Romney early on but there were no high level Republicans publicly denigrating him. I cannot even remember anything like this happening in recent history.

    Wasn't Romney scared off, (none / 0) (#44)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 05:15:37 PM EST
    this time around, by Jeb!  New rules, or, no rules.

    Of Course There Was... (none / 0) (#51)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 02, 2016 at 09:18:49 AM EST
    ... lots of them until he was the nominee, he also had people like Limbaugh stating he couldn't be trusted.

    Paul Ryan (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 11:43:55 AM EST
    Washington (CNN)House Speaker Paul Ryan called out Donald Trump on Tuesday for failing to denounce white supremacist groups over the weekend.

    "If a person wants to be the nominee of the Republican Party, there can be no evasion and no games. They must reject any group or cause that is built on bigotry. This party does not prey on people's prejudices," Ryan told reporters on Capitol Hill.

    I would say does not OPENLY prey on people's prejudices.


    my dog, that is rich (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 12:50:51 PM EST
    They must reject any group or cause that is built on bigotry. This party does not prey on people's prejudices,"

    "OK, back to work blocking .... (none / 0) (#28)
    by magster on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 11:51:57 AM EST
    ... reauthorization of the VRA!"

    I agree that the party COULD split (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 11:51:46 AM EST
    There is just enough crazy right now that I could totally imagine that happening.

    I think it depends on what happens tonight.   If Donald showed weakness today I think it might grow legs.  But I don't expect that.   Just the opposite.   So sadly I see the revolution dying a quiet death tonight.

    I would love to be wrong about that.


    Only 1 issue (none / 0) (#42)
    by TrevorBolder on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 04:55:24 PM EST
    Catapulted The Donald into the lead,

    The lead he has not relinquished

    And that was illegal immigration.

    Establishment has promised and never delivered anything,

    Any measure addressing border enforcement, and The Donald and his wall would never have caught fire.


    I would (none / 0) (#3)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 06:47:54 AM EST
    agree with that too.

    Don't leave the internet out (none / 0) (#37)
    by Trickster on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 01:54:59 PM EST
    That's where the really serious lunatics seriously organize seriously lunatic politics.  And where the echo echo echo echo echoes bounce around and get stronger.

    One small problem with your theory (none / 0) (#38)
    by Redbrow on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 02:42:42 PM EST
    FOX hates Trump almost as much as I hate FOX.

    That Certainly Explains... (none / 0) (#53)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 02, 2016 at 09:34:24 AM EST
    ... why he on or calling in practically every-other-day.  This is a preview of what will happen when he loses, you won't be able to find a republican that voted for him in the general or primary and they will all act like it never happened.

    Anderson (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 07:30:49 AM EST
    Cooper tipped his hat to HST by mentioning "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail" in regard to the race in general and the Republicans in particular..... actually the most sensible thing I heard all night.

    Don't forget Ralph Steadman (none / 0) (#8)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 08:27:19 AM EST
    Acid dripped art for acid dripped prose.

    dipped! (none / 0) (#9)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 08:27:38 AM EST
    Years ago HST found out (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by fishcamp on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 01:17:21 PM EST
    I was going to Europe on a film job for ABC Sports.  He came flapping over to my house with an armload of hand written and typed paperwork to deliver to Ralph Steadman in London.  It didn't matter to Hunter that I was going to Zurich and up into the mountains.  After much dialog Hunter agreed to pay the difference in flight costs to get me to London first.  Ralph met me at Heathrow, and we had a nice visit.  Needless to say Hunter did not repay ABC.  The manuscript was triple sealed and even I could not skillfully open it, and I tried throughout the entire flight.

    Great story, I hadn't heard that one (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 09:29:12 PM EST
    before. While not as interesting, it made me think of the time I ended up with his handwritten edits to his scathing Nixon eulogy, and I left it in the seat pocket in front of me on a flight home from Aspen. (It was called He Was a Crook and you can read it here.)

    I hadn't yet reached the front of the concourse when I realized it. I ran back to the gate got United to let me back on the plane, which was being cleaned, and retrieved it. And then, when moving in 2004, I looked for it and couldn't find it. I have no idea where I put it. I hope it's in storage somewhere.


    lol; As your attorney... (none / 0) (#35)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 01:26:30 PM EST
    Are our best days really behind us? (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by NYShooter on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 10:29:20 AM EST
    What do you say about a country where one of the two major political parties has as its stated policy only one goal: Destroy the country's ability to function.

    Honestly, I think we need a panel of psychiatrists, psychologists, anthropologists, etc, to hold public hearings about where we go from here. It is a psychosis, an international tragedy, that, starting with Reagan, and solidified by Gingrich, to have the Republican Party working 24/7 towards committing national suicide.

    The world is looking at us in wide-eyed horror. Its bad enough that this Republican cabal is trying to duplicate Jim Jones' philosophy of, "if I can't have it, nobody else can have it either." But, why do so many millions of ordinary citizens buy into this craziness?

    No (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 10:48:20 AM EST
    They are not.  Republicans are totally capable of destroying themselves.    The country, not so much.

    If Donald is the nominee he will lose.   And probably, btw, take lots of other republicans down with him.

    It will be the ugliest campaign in modern history and the good guys will win.

    Cheer up.


    I hear you, but, (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by NYShooter on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 12:24:30 PM EST
    whatever happens in today's voting, my complaint is bigger than that.

    "They" have managed to degrade the very institutions of our society. Gerrymandering has guaranteed a steady supply of no-nothings in Congress. Corporate take-over of the Media guarantees the public won't be told the truth about......anything. Years of diligent work has resulted in most State and local Governments being captured by the Crazies.

    Similar, concerted efforts have given us a mostly right-wing (reactionary) judiciary. The Taliban Wing of the Republican Party has placed many people into positions of power regarding education, or rather, into positions of degrading education. The society is inhabited by millions and millions of angry, undereducated, disaffected, insecure citizens swimming in a cesspool of millions and millions of guns. And, overseeing that is a monstrous military/industrial behemouth flooding the world with armageddon-type weaponry, and, death of unimanageable scope.

    And, Donald Trump, even if he doesn't win the big bonanza, the fact that he got this close means that someone even worse is warming up in the wings.

    There, I feel better now.

    Thanks, Howdy.


    I am guardedly optimistic (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 12:53:06 PM EST
    As I said, he will lose.   But along the way he has exposed the republican base for exactly who they are.    No more hiding.   No more double talk.  The base is having the time of their lives.   Every thinking republican is about to jump out a window.

    I won't guess if it was Donalds goal was to flush out and expose the ugly rotting racist under belly of the Republican Party so carefully concealed by artifice for so long.   But he did.   We should all thank him.

    We are all open books now.


    That is (none / 0) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 01:44:16 PM EST
    what I am glad of. He has finally blown the GOP's dirty little secret out into the open. I'm sick of them getting away with the crap they've been getting away with for decades on that account.

    NY judge says fraud lawsuit (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 04:54:14 PM EST
    It's hard to feel empathy (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 05:15:03 PM EST
    Wannabe greedy acquisitive materialistic trumpitos v. an established greedy acquisitive materialistic Trump.

    And (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 05:16:30 PM EST
    He has won most of the lawsuits.

    No he hasn't (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 05:21:33 PM EST
    John Oliver talked about this on Sunday.

    Trump has gotten Three Pinicchios for making this claim.  In fact, all three cases are still proceeding.


    I (none / 0) (#47)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 05:30:06 PM EST
    believe he may have to testify in one case as early as this summer.

    About shot through the heart (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 08:44:13 AM EST
    I would say he pulled the plug of a party that had nationally been on life support at least since the Romney candidacy..

    #nevertrump (none / 0) (#25)
    by magster on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 11:41:57 AM EST
    A collection of Repubs vowing to vote for Clinton/Sanders.

    My favorite:

    "I assume Clinton would crush Trump in a landslide, but if it is actually close, I will not vote third party. I will instead get blackout drunk, hold my nose, and vote for Hillary."

    Blackout Drunks for Hillary (5.00 / 7) (#34)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 01:18:22 PM EST
    I want the t-shirt

    Apparently several prominent (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 09:30:57 PM EST
    Republicans are saying they'd vote for Hillary over Trump.

    A diehard Republican (none / 0) (#32)
    by Towanda on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 01:11:42 PM EST
    somewhat related to us, one who held high office in the state, said two weeks ago that he would have to vote for Clinton, if Trump is the nominee.  

    I never-but-never expected to hear that from this truly diehard Republican.  


    When the going gets weird, the weird turn Rubio (none / 0) (#48)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 01, 2016 at 05:30:34 PM EST
    "He [Rubio] said I have small hands -- I'm actually 6'3", not 6'2" -- but I've always heard people say, 'Donald, you have the most beautiful hands,' " Trump said at a rally in Columbus, Ohio, on Super Tuesday.

    Trump was responding to an unusual attack from Rubio over the weekend.

    "He's always calling me Little Marco. And I'll admit he's taller than me. He's like 6'2", which is why I don't understand why his hands are the size of someone who is 5'2"," Rubio said at a rally in Virginia Sunday night. "And you know what they say about men with small hands? You can't trust them."

    I Would Love to Know... (none / 0) (#52)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 02, 2016 at 09:25:18 AM EST
    ... who says you can't trust people with small hands, beyond Rubio.  I thought it was a reference to Trump's junk, but I always thought that was feet, Rubio.