The Pope and Donald

Maybe it was a slow news day, but CNN really seemed to want to crank up this story about the Pope's criticism of Donald Trump on immigration and make it have legs:

Asked if American Catholics should vote for someone with Trump's views, Francis said, "I am not going to get involved in that. I say only that this man is not Christian if he has said things like that. We must see if he said things in that way and in this I give the benefit of the doubt."

Much ado about nothing. Slightly more entertaining was Trumps' statement that the Vatican is in ISIS' cross-hairs and ripe for an attack, and that after it gets attacked, it will realize that had Trump been President, the attack would never have happened because ISIS would have been taken out. [More....]

Context is important. On the immigration question, here are the actual remarks of the Pope and the question to which he was replying.
Phil Pullella, Reuters: Today, you spoke very eloquently about the problems of immigration. On the other side of the border, there is a very tough electoral battle. One of the candidates for the White House, Republican, Donald Trump, in an interview recently said that you are a political man and he even said that you are a pawn, an instrument of the Mexican government for migration politics. Trump said that if hes elected, he wants to build 2,500 kilometers of wall along the border. He wants to deport 11 million illegal immigrants, separating families, etcetera. I would like to ask you, what do you think of these accusations against you and if a North American Catholic can vote for a person like this?

Pope Francis: Thank God he said I was a politician because Aristotle defined the human person as 'animal politicus.' At least I am a human person. As to whether I am a pawn, well, maybe, I don't know. I'll leave that up to your judgment and that of the people. And then, a person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian. This is not in the Gospel. As far as what you said about whether I would advise to vote or not to vote, I am not going to get involved in that. I say only that this man is not Christian if he has said things like that. We must see if he said things in that way and in this I give the benefit of the doubt.

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  • Display: Sort:
    The Pope seems to have ... (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 07:01:16 PM EST
    no idea who Donald Trump is.

    Nice to know there's someone in such a blissful state.

    And his gentle reply to the question from Reuters reporter Phil Pullella was the ultimate putdown, in that he never even bothered to mention Trump by name, referencing him only as "a person" and "this man."

    The Pope made it very obvious what he thinks about Trump, and further that he's not concerned at all by what the man either thinks or says about him.

    As far as Jeralyn's own remarks on the exchange between Trump and His Holiness are concerned, while Trump the candidate can be called many things, "entertaining" really shouldn't be one of them. The man's proved himself to be a dangerously cavalier demagogue and bigot who clearly has no problem inciting others to threaten and even commit violence.

    Shame on Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski, who've turned into a modern-day "Harry and Louise" over at MSNBC, for fawning over that jackass last night with that prime-time exercise in mutual media masturbation they called a "town hall." And shame on the brass at NBC News for having greenlighted that noxiously ingratiating program in the first place. Just when you thought those clowns couldn't possibly go any lower, somebody threw them a couple of new shovels and told them to keep on digging. Per Charles Pierce at Esquire:

    "Many years hence, when historians write of the death of television news, the one-hour infomercial that Joe Scarborough ran on behalf of Donald Trump on Thursday night will have roughly the same impact on their conclusions that the Yucatan meteor has had on the study of paleontology. I missed it because I was driving back from the Rubio event, but the transcript itself is completely amazing -- by which I mean completely appalling."



    Seems ... (none / 0) (#15)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 09:57:16 PM EST
    was the word I used.

    "All we see or seem is but a dream within a dream." -- Edgar Allan Poe

    Although the American media would have you believe otherwise, it's possible to live a full and complete life without thinking about the orange guy for weeks on end.

    You can also be completely ignorant of his existence, and still be a very well-informed individual who has deep and complete thoughts about the contemporary scene.

    When all is said and done he'll turn out to be a footnote of a footnote.


    I have (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 06:50:37 PM EST
    seem a lot of comment on this too. Seriously doubt most people care.

    To dismiss this as not mattering (none / 0) (#18)
    by Towanda on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 10:53:40 PM EST
    may be to ignore the Nevada caucus of Republicans, only five days away -- if there are any Latinas/os left who were going to go Republican.

    My guess is (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 10:58:20 PM EST
    Neither of Donalds Latino supporters will care

    I think your (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Feb 19, 2016 at 04:00:58 AM EST
    last part of your sentence is the key. However if everything Trump has said so far hasn't turned them off then this is certainly not going to.

    BTW, is this an open thread? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 07:01:44 PM EST
    The newest one is full.

    No it isn't an open thread (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Feb 19, 2016 at 02:36:42 AM EST
    but there is a new open thread up now.

    I think the most interesting part (none / 0) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 07:05:06 PM EST
    Is that the media wants to make it only about Trump.  True the pope was responding to a question about Trump remarks I think but every single one of them has been for some version of a wall.
    Which makes their responses to the whole thing even more fraught than an attack n the pope might normally be.  They are literally damned if they do and damned if they don't.
    Cruz won't talk about it.  Jeb won't dare criticize Trump because he needs to finish 4th.

    I'm sorry.  I'm entertained.

    We had to turn on Fox News for this (none / 0) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 07:11:50 PM EST
    One contributor on the O'Reilly factor says the Pope is an infidel....woo hoo...Murika! And she quoted bible verses.

    She also said the Vatican gets to have walls but we can't have them?

    Great comedy

    And if the Pope is infallible, look at all these people going to hell :) This IS witnessing the highway to hell.

    This is like a (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 07:14:32 PM EST
    Massive campaign contribution to Donald.   It will be the news right up to the primary.  

    There are many ... (none / 0) (#8)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 07:15:11 PM EST
    anti Catholic bigots in the South.  Well, frankly, there are many everywhere.

    Fox may be trying to heat that up.


    They don't really need to (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 07:19:11 PM EST
    This Pope is very unpopular with the republican right.   Rush was all over it today.  "I'm surprised the Pope is not campaigning for Bernie Sanders but Sanders is probably to right wing for him"

    From the environment to immigration to pretty much you name it.


    Also (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 07:12:53 PM EST
    I'm a bit surprised at how "balanced" the criticism has been.    Pretty much as much of the pope as Donald on the basis that he should not pick candidates, he should not interfere blah blah

    Even Tweety, AKA TVs best Catholic, was very muted in his, um, remarks.

    I expect a Pope to opinionate on political (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 10:09:11 PM EST
    Morality. It's his freaking job :) I may not agree,  I might find this men only club a bit creepy, but in the world of Catholicism it is the Pope's job.

    No dog in fight (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 10:18:01 PM EST
    Could care less one way or the other

    I'm not sure I have a dog in this fight (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Feb 20, 2016 at 02:17:52 PM EST
    But a Pope who doesn't have a opinions he shares with the world? What's he good for?

    True (none / 0) (#25)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Feb 20, 2016 at 04:02:19 PM EST
    And what I fail to understand is how he opines about Trump,

    meanwhile actually meets with Fidel Castro, and nary a cross word.

    I guess there is no need to build a wall when you live on a island?


    He Didn't Opine About Trump... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Feb 22, 2016 at 03:21:35 PM EST
    ... someone asked him a specific question about walls and Trump.  I would imagine if someone specifically asked him a specific question Raúl Castro they would get an similar answer.

    Perhaps Fidel is interested in bridges (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Feb 20, 2016 at 04:31:39 PM EST
    I am totally the wrong person (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 20, 2016 at 04:34:41 PM EST
    To ask what a Pope is good for.

    The Donald is playing to the Evangelicals. (none / 0) (#10)
    by AX10 on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 08:03:42 PM EST
    Evangelicals and Catholics hate each other.
    Donnie knows what he is doing.

    Not always (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 08:06:41 PM EST
    see Santorum, Rick, beloved by evangelicals. Supposedly there are "evangelical Catholics" though I've never met one.

    The Catholic/Evangelical hate thing is mostly a southern thing I would imagine.


    Being surrounded (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 08:12:41 PM EST
    By southern evangelicals, I would not say the ones I know "hate" Catholics.   I would say they they don't take them very seriously.  What they absolutely do hate is when the Pope gets political.  One thing they know is that theirs is the ONLY religion allowed to do that.

    Christians have had "Heaven" walled off (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Feb 19, 2016 at 06:13:09 AM EST
    for millennia.

    I'm (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Feb 18, 2016 at 08:18:36 PM EST
    kind of surprised that you don't know anyone that hates them since you seem to be surrounded by IFB's who generally loathe Catholics.

    Evangelical Catholics (none / 0) (#23)
    by RCBadger on Fri Feb 19, 2016 at 03:24:59 PM EST
    I think they refer to themselves as "Charismatic Catholics."