Feelings on The Last Day of a G-d Awful Year

It's the last day of a horrible year for America. Next year will be even worse.

What feelings should an incoming President invoke in us? My answer would be pride in our country, a sense of security, so that when we go to sleep at night we know the world will be there when we wake up, and feelings of trust that our nation's leader will steer the country along the right path, embracing principles of freedom, tolerance and opportunity for all, and act in ways that confirm to the world that the United States is a beacon of liberty, not authoritarianism.

What feeling does UnPresident Elect Donald Trump evoke? You can answer for yourself in comments.

My answer: The feeling I most associate with Donald Trump is the feeling I'd get when I was a kid the instant I realized I stepped in a pile of dogsh*t. Anytime I hear him or see him or think about him or his inexperienced, privileged children being given jobs as anything but pencil pushers in his Administration, I want to start scraping my shoes or take a shower to rinse them all away. [More...]

The next four years are going to suck, big-time. And that's if we survive them at all.

I'll be back later with a more traditional Happy New Year's post. This one is for commiserating about how f*cked our country is right now.

< CT Supreme Court Reinstate's Michael Skakel's Conviction | Happy New Years (For Real) and Open Thread >
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  • Display: Sort:
    All I know is... (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by desertswine on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 03:13:44 PM EST
    that this guy is nuts.

    Happy New Year to all, including to my many enemies and those who have fought me and lost so badly they just don't know what to do. Love!

    We are entering a dark, dark, period.

    Nuts yeah (none / 0) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 04:25:48 PM EST
    wacko yeah. And he's going to have the codes.

    The Dons, Trump and King, (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by KeysDan on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 03:21:30 PM EST
    must have put an hiatus to their Mar a Lago camaraderie long enough for Trump to send a sweet tweet to the nation:

    "Happy New Year to all, including to my many enemies and those who have fought me and lost so badly they just don't know what to do.  Love."

    This beautiful, unifying New Year's message was so thoughtful. Hallmark could not have said it better. However, the message was sweet enough without ending in Love.  He should have saved that for his warm Valentine Day greeting.

    Our country is great (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by McBain on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 05:34:04 PM EST
    It's been great for a long time and will probably continue to be great for years to come.  The only thing that's really messed up is the media and I don't see it improving much in 2017.

    We're still a country of people who believe the first thing they hear or read if it fits their world view.  I thought the the internet would change that but it's only made things worse.    

    Sorry it's never been great ... if you are ... (none / 0) (#12)
    by Erehwon on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 08:56:04 PM EST
    not white,
    not male,
    not Christian,
    and on and on.

    So the Trump catastrophe will impact those folks more ... especially without any honest Republicans around ...


    I'm not Christian and I think it's great (none / 0) (#16)
    by McBain on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 11:17:48 PM EST
    my girlfriend is not white and she thinks it's great. Plenty of freedom and opportunity.  

    Good for you both, but anecdota isn't ... (none / 0) (#18)
    by Erehwon on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 08:41:37 AM EST
    good enough.

    Ask the millions of native Americans ... well, most of them aren't around, are they?

    Or the 3/5 th Americans?

    Or the ...

    The Trump election has just revealed to the world that there is still a dark side to the country, which has existed along with the good side, but the dark side is ascendant for now. Me, I am an optimist ... I hope this too shall pass ...


    If you're looking for perfection (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by McBain on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 12:17:23 PM EST
    you're not going to find it here or anywhere.  Compared to other countries, ours is exceptional and, for the most part, we're getting better.  

    How did the election reveal a dark side? Because your side lost?  I saw the election as a predictable shift in power....  one side had the white house for 8 years, which usually means the other side gets it next.  


    A more factual look at the past (1.00 / 6) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 12:16:25 PM EST
    The so-called Native Americans came across the Siberia-Alaska land bridge and filtered down and across the continents. Among the things they are noted for is human sacrifice, slavery and cannibalism. Their societies/cultures ranged from hunter gather tribes in the north to feudal kings and peasants groupings in the central and south.

    Everything was cool until the southern Europeans arrived. The southern Europeans were aggressive, had better weapons, including germs that the NA's had never been around before. The result was conquest, settlement and a feudal society based on what they had in southern Europe resulting in land owners with peasants huddled around the Catholic Church. But the NA's were marginally better off. No slavery, no cannibalism and no human sacrifice.

    Basically, nothing has changed to the south. They have gone from weekly revolutions to establishment of failed socialism experiments...Venezuela doesn't have toilet paper or antibiotics and Honduras is the murder capital of the world. Their exports are bananas and people.....who have flooded into America to the tune of 11 million or so. When called out they riot and fly Mexico's flag and demand the right to vote.   They seem determined to establish what they, or their parents, fled from. Poverty, chaos, crime and dictatorship.

    Later the northern Europeans arrived to the north. They were no better to the NA's than their peers to the south. But they did have one thing the southern Europeans didn't have. Budding democracy. They had the Magna Carta. The powers of kings were finite and the people were to have a voice.
    "We the people...." Became real.

    None of this is pretty. The NA's lost. What the Europeans found were people who couldn't, or wouldn't, defend the land that they had taken from the previous owners.

    We now find ourselves on the same page that was the Aztec's. Do we want to defend and hold this land, this civilization, or do we want to surrender to the flood of people from the south and the Obama and Hillary inflected flood of Muslims from the east.


    "so-called Native Americans"? (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by MKS on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 01:25:51 PM EST
    You can just see the derisive venom dripping from your words.

    Dude, Jimbo, you do know that Latinos were in the West long, long before English speaking settlers, right?

    Mr. History buff, every major city in California has a Spanish name: San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Sacramento, Modesto, Santa Barbara, Santa Clara, San Jose, Santa Cruz...Or, even in stereotypical Orange County: Yorba Linda, Costa Mesa, Santa Ana, Mission Viejo, Laguna Beach, Laguna Niguel, San Clemente.

    You have such an inferiority complex, apparently stemming from your origins in Appalachia or rural Tennessee, that you need to look down on others and pat yourself on the back that "your" culture is superior.    


    Everything was cool until the southern europeans (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by jondee on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 01:50:42 PM EST

    Yes, those swarthy papists of less-than-pure aryan blood and of questionable loyalty..

    I guess by "everything cool" he's also including the Smallpox epidemic that was introduced to and decimated tribes in Canada and Great Lakes region by Northern European traders operating out of Quebec in the 1600s..


    Basically nothing has changed to the South (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by jondee on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 02:18:46 PM EST
    morbid obesity..wild-eyed televangelists seen as moral leaders..highest rates of illiteracy..Stars and Bars bumperstickers..the worst schools in the country..highest rates of incarceration and violent crime..the biosphere and environment seen as one big toilet bowl..

    Who wouldn't want preserve all that from the cultural contamination threatened by the "floods" of foreigners?


    You seem to think (3.00 / 2) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 03:15:35 PM EST
    You seem to think that a factual statement means that I think it is good.

    Later the northern Europeans arrived to the north. They were no better to the NA's than their peers to the south

    The facts are that both the NA's and the undocumented immigrants were acting as dictated by their culture. There is no reason to condemn or defend their actions using today's standards.

    Which is what Erewhon was doing when s/he wrote:

    Ask the millions of native Americans ... well, most of them aren't around, are they?


    .....there is still a dark side to the country, which has existed along with the good side, but the dark side is ascendant for now. Me, I am an optimist ... I hope this too shall pass

    The NA's lost. The Europeans won.

    And all the blathering and attempts at some equivalency is meaningless. The Irish were cannibals? So? Does that mean the NA's were good people? No more than there were also good NA's and good Irish. That there are fat people in fly over country??? Really? What a revelation! Did you personally tour the country or did you see a special on MSNBC?

    The cities are "winning" and the flyover lands are losing? Really? How long do you think the country can survive one without the other? You've watched too much scifi. The expression "food is" is as false today as when it was first uttered.

    Your wild claims are merely an attempt to win an argument that shouldn't exist. The flood of people into the country defines which of the modern cultures are best. Thirteen million or so undocumented immigrants are hard to hide.

    And your nasty attacks ignore my repeated stated positions that we give all of them green cards, if they can pass a criminal activity check, and a path of citizenship. And I would seal the border to stop the flow so that the laborers already here can demand better pay and working conditions.  

    How mean,nasty and racist of me.

    Try it. Try actually helping people instead of supporting a political agenda that is, at its base, "open borders." What you want is for a couple of metro areas to elect the president of all the people.

    That didn't work during the founding and wouldn't work now. Quit whining. There's an election in two years. Let's see if the country changes its mind then.

    In the meantime let's see if we can solve some problems and not lose the country like the NA's lost their's.


    Tell us, Jim (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by jondee on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 04:52:55 PM EST
    what culture dictates the out of control rates of illiteracy, teenage pregnancy, incarcerations, opiate addiction, violent crime etc etc in flies-all-over country?

    What cultural traditions inspired admiration for a juvenile p*ssy grabber President who says he views low information voters as a strength?

    Ignorance as an asset. Is that mentality the flowering of the culture you want to protect from contamination by outsiders?

    But the, you're the one who said he wants to go back to 1962 -- when people were even more ignorant.


    Try having the person who (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by MKS on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 07:04:51 PM EST
    gets the most votes wins.   You know, democracy.

    Not rural white America controls everyone else.


    How about learning something (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 08:37:00 PM EST
    The US is a Republic.

    Not a democracy controlled by the mob.


    Oh, I know (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by MKS on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 09:36:49 PM EST
    many fear democracy.

    The South has from its inception tried to avoid democracy.  They did want 3/5 of slaves to count towards their electoral power even though they did not allow 3/5 of the slaves to vote.  And Jim Crow and the Night Riders of the KKK and literacy tests, all efforts to avoid democracy.  

    Was that part of the Republic too?


    This year it was a republic (none / 0) (#40)
    by jondee on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 08:57:30 PM EST
    controlled by a mob.

    Trump's low info favorites, who threatened blood in the streets if he lost.


    that is the rational of tyrants (none / 0) (#41)
    by linea on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 09:31:47 PM EST
    direct democracy is the ideal. one citizen one vote; every vote is equal.

    Since we have had the same formula (none / 0) (#47)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 10:26:37 PM EST
    For over 200 years, there is no need to change. Perhaps political campaigns should pay more attention to the rules, they are not new, instead of assuming victory.

    The same formula? (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by MKS on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 10:32:22 PM EST
    You mean the original recipe? Colonel Sanders's herbs and spices?

    I just cited you the 3/5 rule from our original Constitution.  Is that a good idea?  Well, it certainly has been changed.

    And as to who votes, that has changed a lot over the last 200 years.   Women vote now.  And African Americans vote now, much to the chagrin of the GOP.  But Jim Crow lasted well past 1950.....

    Democracy is the goal.  And it is twice now in the last 16 years that a GOP with business experience has lost the popular vote but won the Electoral College.  

    The EC is flawed.  Just like the 3/5 rule was flawed.  Just like not allowing women to vote was flawed.  Just like not allowing African Americans to vote was flawed.  So, I do not think you really want to go back to the original Constitution, but who knows, people go around saying that all the time.    


    We had some really brilliant people (none / 0) (#51)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 10:42:27 PM EST
    Write the design for this country.
    Perhaps thats why it has lasted as well as it has, as strong as it has. That was a extraordinary combination of brilliant and  courageous men.
    It was written according to its times, but they wisely left room to amend their original construction. So why do women get to vote, African Americans vote? Oh, those avenues for changes were utilized. No, they did a really good job

    Jim, you write, (none / 0) (#37)
    by MKS on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 07:24:38 PM EST
    as follows:

    Did you personally tour the country or did you see a special on MSNBC?

    So, you seem to be saying, among other things, that we don't know about what you term "flyover" country because we have not been there, experienced life there, and we are not familiar with real life there.

    Setting aside whether that critique is true, just stop for moment and think.  Why not try that approach to Latin America?  You have not spent any time of consequence there, probably do not speak the language, have apparently read very little, and make all kinds of assumptions without any real first hand experience yourself.

    So, rather than indict entire cultures, why not try and get to know them?

    Well, that was my attempt at reason with you.  But bigotry is hard to set aside.  It is a useful crutch in blaming others and making one feel better than someone else.


    First of all it is true (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 08:43:56 PM EST
    And I have no desire to visit Mexico or anyplace south of the border.

    I have no problem with their country or their culture. If it suits them it suits me.

    It is those 13 million undocumented immigrants that have a problem with it. After all, they left it.

    So quit playing the blame game.

    After all, if the Latino/Hispanic countries wouldn't export their people they might try and fix their problems.


    I will give you credit (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by MKS on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 09:56:23 PM EST
    You are honest in your bigotry.  And you admit your ignorance.

      Many hide their bigotry including Trevor, who did, however, let the mask drop when he gave you a "5" for your bigoted comment.

    Since I am heart a liberal, I do believe in Rousseau's idea, at least in many respects, and in the Enlightenment Principles, that people are basically good and can learn; so, let me clue you in:  If you want to talk about immigration solutions, saying Latinos come from an inferior culture will go nowhere (and consigning them to permanent second class status won't help either.)

    You don't want to discuss immigration solution really. You spend much more time regaling us with your social philosophy that your culture is superior and Latino culture is inferior.

    And, Jimbo, I was raised in many respects in a Latino home by Latina women, so guess what? I will  find your bigotry offensive.  As I recall, Donald of H married someone who is Latina and has Latina kids, so guess what?

    I would love Armando to have a discussion with you.  I guess that would last, what, maybe about two seconds.  He would set you straight PDQ.

    You take offense when people denigrate country people from the South, or Appalachia: so perhaps there is some part of you that can empathize rather than retreat to your standard bigotry against Latinos and all furriners.   Try it.  Even bigots can change.


    What you fail to see (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by MKS on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 10:16:39 PM EST
    is that Latino culture is a part of American culture.

    Just look at the Southwest.  Latinos have been here far longer than Anglos.  Latinos have been the bedrock in Colorado for generations.

    You think that only white Protestants (you have been on a riff lately against Southern European culture, or, in other words, Catholics) from the non urban Midwest or South represent American culture.

    You definitely exclude Muslims (bye, bye Kareem and Muhammed Ali) and those from the Middle East. Not Americans or not American culture.

    And Jewish people, not part of "American" culture either.

    The beauty and strength of our country is how diverse it is, that we take from all cultures.  This is why Americans succeed so much--we adapt and absorb and change.  This is what Obama so epitomized, and probably why you detested him so much, posting a racist photo on your blog of bone through his nose.  

    You do not see America as stronger for its diversity, but fear it, and want to isolate "American" to some version of the white Protestant rural South.


    And very high rates (none / 0) (#36)
    by MKS on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 07:13:15 PM EST
    of disability payments and opioid addiction.  

    The Irish were (none / 0) (#25)
    by MKS on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 01:02:58 PM EST
    practicing human sacrifice at the same time as your assertion about Native Americans.

    In terms of culture, using your metric, the portion of the country you term "flyover country" is losing people to the cities and the coasts.  You say Latino culture is inferior because it is losing people coming here for jobs.  So, "flyover" country has an inferior culture--using your theory.

    But then you say, no, you can only compare culture (in the U.S.) as a country, and since people are leaving flyover country for other places in the same country, it is not a statement about culture.  Rubbish.

    You are among the foremost in making a big deal about the cultural differences between California and flyover country.

    Your ideas are unvarnished bigotry.  Racism.  Ugly Americanism.

    Now, you want to hold up white Americans as superior to Native Americans.  More racism and bigotry.

    You have spouted the same ugly nonsense about Latin America over and over again, just revealing your bigotry and racism.   Your knowledge about Latin America is exemplified by your stating that you visited Latin America when you visited the Bahamas.  You are very ignorant.

    But you are a good example that bigotry is rooted in ignorance and an big chip on your shoulder and resentment of others such as California.


    If following the dictates (none / 0) (#43)
    by jondee on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 09:37:57 PM EST
    of your conscience means coming into direct conflict with powerful entrenched interests, you may find this country is no more "great" than many other countries.

    I never understood the need some people have to make pronouncements about how "great" the U.S is. It reminds me cheerleaders at a pep rally, or the kid on the playground bragging about how his big brother can beat up everyone else's big brother.

    Who are you trying to convince?

    If it were truly great, there'd be no need to constantly crow about it.


    The USA population has now flipped in feelings. (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by JeriKoll on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 06:59:06 PM EST
    I have told some of my friends that everything will be ok.  The intense feelings of despair and bewilderment caused by pre and post election rhetoric will ease and everyone will find their center again.

    Think on this.
    About half the country has fretted over the last 8 years while half seemed deliriously happy.  Now we have a flip-flop.

    The strangest thing I have gleaned from studying the various reports and aftermath studies is that the Hilary machine endeavored to get Trump as it's appointed and anointed antagonist thinking he would be the easier target.
    ... proving the old adage :"be careful what you wish for!"

    The center (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 07:24:19 PM EST
    will probably be found but not anytime soon. The people Trump is appointing are control freak wackos. No one is going to hold Trump accountable and that is what is scaring most people. That and the fact that Trump has no boundaries and has a bromance with Putin and other authoritarian dictators.

    I think Hillary picking Trump is a conspiracy theory. She went after all the Republicans when they were having a primary. The people that picked Trump and are responsible for Trump are the people that voted for him and the GOP who nominated him. No one else.


    Happy New Year (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 09:28:54 PM EST
    to all of you. If I remain lucky and see this one through it will be number 79! May you be happy, healthy, prosperous and join me here 12/31/17!

    thank you Jim (none / 0) (#15)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 09:33:53 PM EST
    Sounds like a great idea! (none / 0) (#17)
    by McBain on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 11:19:25 PM EST
    Happy New Year (none / 0) (#19)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 09:18:40 AM EST
    to you and your family.

    Happy New Year Jim, and all at TL (none / 0) (#20)
    by Lora on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 09:50:13 AM EST
    May 2017 surprise us with peace, health, and prosperity for all.  Let us all strive to make it so.

    Thread closed (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 10:49:28 PM EST
    It's a new year. Commenters are warned I will be less patient with insults and name calling.

    I think a got a pretty good (none / 0) (#3)
    by MKS on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 03:54:11 PM EST
    system in place to never hear Trump's voice again.  Now, to never see film of him.  A still photo is unpleasant but won't cause me to lose my cookies.

    But video footage of Gen. Cheeto is not something I want to see ever again.  He is anathema to every value I hold, and his very visage invokes everything despicable in modern life.

    I don't care if I have to boycott all news, live cable or network or otherwise, for four years.  

    That feeling when you leave not knowing (none / 0) (#5)
    by vicndabx on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 04:27:34 PM EST
    if you've forgotten something.  A general unease, coupled with the uncertainty of when that thing you forgot will be needed.

    My wife and I have turned to the purchase of firearms in an attempt to restore the sense of security we lost on Nov 8th. Irrational? Maybe.

    Generally my mood can be summed up with this song from my childhood by the O'Jays.

    Interestingly a twist in the usual for liberals (none / 0) (#8)
    by JeriKoll on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 06:45:36 PM EST
    I have read that liberals are becoming more like "survivalists" and "preppers."

    Especially with guns.  I haven't heard that much about acquisition of food (canned, non-perishable, sustainable,...) water treatment and off grid hideouts.


    Not me. I prefer to just paint a big target on (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by vml68 on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 09:03:24 PM EST
    I have read that liberals are becoming more like "survivalists" and "preppers."

    the roof of my house so the missiles aimed this way don't miss. I am not Mad Max material.


    I think the best way (none / 0) (#7)
    by smott on Sat Dec 31, 2016 at 06:34:19 PM EST
    To understand what's coming is to re-watch (or watch if you missed it first time) a film called
    Children of Men.

    Set in 2027, but we seem to have arrived ahead of time.

    The Trump card (none / 0) (#21)
    by Lora on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 09:59:36 AM EST
    I refuse to succumb to being overwhelmed by grieving for what might have been.

    I remain adamant that information and education is key.

    The danger is the refusal to let facts affect and in many cases change your opinion.  I do not mean just from the Trump supporters.  The Left is often guilty of automatically dismissing facts that could change their opinions as well.

    However, in terms of total brainwashing-type disinformation that has swayed millions and millions of Americans, the alt-right takes the prize.

    The overwhelming challenge is how to deprogram those who believe outright lies without question, and those who refuse to question supposedly legitimate sources (the left is part of this latter group as well).

    The other challenge is to discount the outrageous lies as something to ignore. The left is too good at this.

    This is how he-who-must-not-be-named got elected.

    Everyone has some facts (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 01:19:30 PM EST
    Some are even true.

    This is from a letter by a high school senior attending a prestige private school in Nashville.

    One evening last April, my dad and I were watching CNN when I began a typical rant about you. When I had finished, he calmly said to me, "You know Karin, I was on the road today listening to talk radio and one caller said, `I know Trump has said a lot of crazy things, and I don't agree with a lot of what he's said. But my grandfather was a coal miner and it killed him. My father was a coal miner and it killed him. And now, I'm a coal miner. My kid's friends are talking about college, and I can't afford to send my kid to college. So, you're damn right I'm voting for Trump.'"

    Yes, the Obama administration may have created 9.3 million jobs, but there's a father with a family to support and he has three of them. It's hard to tell this father that the American economy is strong, when he can barely afford the rent. It's hard to tell him that his health premiums are going up, when he struggles to buy school supplies.

    But most of all, it's hard to tell him that he should vote for someone who is part of a political dynasty, when generations of a political elite have failed to show him, or his father, or his grandfather, a path to financial stability.


    She almost gets it but doesn't quite get there. The Obama administration didn't create s single private job. Neither will Trump's.

    Like many on the Left she gives credit for intent but doesn't grasp that the road to hell is often paved with good intentions and that the coal miner father can't feed his family, much less send them to college, on "intent."


    well (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 01:28:51 PM EST
    Richard Spencer one of the leaders of the neo nazi alt right movement graduated from a tony private school. And Trump certainly has conned all these people because Trump never even promised to make college affordable. More than likely Trump will cost the country millions of jobs. But unfortunately that is the only way many of these people are going to learn.

    One solution (none / 0) (#27)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 01:24:24 PM EST
    to the alt right would be for the GOP to start telling the truth about them. However I have no belief that the GOP will do any such thing. The alt-right needs to be exposed for what it is over and over until it sinks in and then marginalized and beaten at the polls.

    This thread is now closing (none / 0) (#52)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Jan 01, 2017 at 10:48:46 PM EST
    due to insults between commenters. MKS, Trevor, Jim and everyone else: You may not call others r*cist here and you may not blogclog.