Team Trump: Not Ready for Primetime

One week after the election, UnPresident Donald Trump shows he's not ready for primetime. His team is in utter disarray. It's one fiasco after another. The entire Republican party is mired in one crisis after another. And, barring an Indictment or impeachment of Donald Trump in both houses, the majority of the electorate -- who voted for Hillary -- are stuck with him and his seemingly rudderless ship for the next four years. [More...]

Rudy Giuliani, who now is reported to be under consideration for Secretary of State, is under fire for accepting payments on behalf of a designated terror group in Iran, before they got taken off the designated terror list.

I'm pretty sure Rudy's been asking foreign leaders to support him getting the position. Look at this article about the President of Colombia calling Donald Trump (or was it Rudy he talked to?) Was it really necessary for Colombia's president to mention at least three times during the interview that Rudy Giuliani arranged the call and was a special friend of Colombia? I'd bet Rudy asked him say that. (Use Google Translate)

Why would Rudy want to be Secretary of State at his age? All that time on a plane can't be healthy. Maybe he's unhappy at home and it's a cheap way to get a de facto divorce from Wife No. 4. In any event, better Secretary of State than Attorney General. As Radley Balko writes, the likely damage he would inflict is terrifying even to contemplate. If Rudy doesn't get the AG's job, who will? Ted Cruz's name is now being floated at Reuters. (I don't think Jeff Sessions would want the job -- too much work, compared to being a Senator. Which is a good thing, because judging from my memory of his tenure as U.S. Attorney in Mobile, he'd be terrible in that position for the country.)

Barbara Boxer introduced a bill to eliminate the Electoral College. (No links due to auto-play video on every site I checked.) That will never happen. It requires a constitutional amendment, a 2/3 vote of the House and Senate, and approval by 3/4 of the state legislators. And it won't protect us from Trump, Giuliani, Gingrich and the Bush-era Neo-cons, Paul Ryan who is intent on privatizing Medicare, or any of the other deplorables who are headed our way.

Wouldn't it be easier for Congress to pass a bill now, invoking the Supremacy Clause, and declaring that no elector who votes for the candidate who wins the national popular vote, rather than the candidate who won the most votes in his or her state, shall be subjected to any federal or state civil or criminal penalty? It doesn't legalize it or contravene the Constitution, it just foregoes any punishment. I'm sure there's a million reasons why such a law would be overturned eventually, but for now, it would keep Trump out of the White House and put Hillary in, where she belongs. Given the Republicans' present fury at Trump, the bill would probably get bipartisan support and pass before the electoral college meets to vote in December. The Change.Org. petition to that effect already has 4 million signatures. I doubt the more than 60 million people who voted against Trump would object. As for those that didn't vote, tough. You snooze, you lose. If you didn't vote, you have no right to complain about anything.

Hillary is now ahead in the popular vote count by more than 1 million votes. Trump's claiming a "mandate" is simply untrue. If he has any mandate, I think it is only with the under-informed, mostly rural, radical right fringe who call themselves Christians. There is nothing religious about them. They are nothing more than dangerous right wing radicals.

Donald Trump is now in fantasy land claiming today he would have won the popular vote if he campaigned in New York, Florida and California. Donald Trump couldn't even carry California's uber-right Orange County -- John Wayne would be appalled. San Francisco voters chose him by a whopping 85%. If he had shown up more in California, he'd probably have gotten even fewer votes. And he campaigned he as* off in Florida, and Manhattan (where he chose to ride down, rather than up, the escalator as he made his presidential announcement. He even ate pizza with Sarah Palin in New York, with a fork.) As for Florida, he couldn't even win Palm Beach County, home to his Mar a Lago. Hillary beat him there by more than 100,000 votes.

I don't doubt Jared Kushner plans to go to Washington with Trump, but I don't think he's any more ready for prime-time than Trump. Like Trump, he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and got his start from a rich father with big real estate holdings. The paper he bought a few years ago, the New York Observer, last week changed its name to "The Observer" and announced it is ceasing its print edition immediately and will only publish online in the future. Could it be Jared doesn't trust his employees to run the paper when he exits for Washington?

Looking at the stories on the paper's front page this week, it seems to have morphed into the Enquirer -- every political headline about the election has an anti-Hillary, unjournalistic slant. One news article (not commentary) refers to Hillary's "totalitarian support for the Democratic party."

Ivanka Trump is already trying to profit off her father's win. After her 60 Minutes appearance Sunday, a staffer at her jewelry company sent out a "style alert" telling journalists where they could buy the bracelet she wore on the show. She did the same with her dress at the RNC.

In the "You Can't Make This Stuff Up" Department: Ivanka Trump is moving her shoe operation from China to Africa where wages are even cheaper.

100,000 pairs of shoes bearing his daughter Ivanka's name have been made in Dongguan, China The Huajian company is now moving production to Africa because labor there is even cheaper. It can employ five Ethiopians at its factory near Addis Ababa for the price of one Chinese worker

One of the two appointments Trump has announced so far has generated huge opposition. Steve Bannon may or may not share the beliefs of the objectionable groups that support him, but he attracts them like magnets. (Again, I have no idea what Stephen Bannon personally believes, so no name-calling here. Comments calling him names will be deleted as potentially libelous.)

President Obama spoke out today against the creeping rise in nationalism here and in Europe. It's a serious problem. And these people supported only one U.S. candidate for President: Trump.

Does it really matter who Trump appoints? Anyone he appoints is likely to land us in World War III, at home and abroad. He will certainly drag the image of the U.S. into the mud. Can you think of a more vulgar, tasteless performance than this?

When Trump brings back water-boarding, I won't be surprised if he asks to do the deed himself.

I believe Donald Trump will do more damage to this country than any President in history. His administration will be like a ship barreling through the rough seas with no captain to steer it. From what I can see, he doesn't know how, he doesn't have the attention span and he's lacking in human compassion and decency. But that's just my opinion.

I could care less why Trump won. Crying over spilled milk and the blame game get us nowhere. There's nothing to do now but take a lot of showers and wait for the worst. Don't kid yourself, it's coming. Trying to make nice and beat it back is a waste of time.

Trump's infighting reminds of the line from Leonard Cohen's Democracy:

"It's the homicidal bitching that goes down in every kitchen to determine who will serve and who will eat."

No unity shtick here.

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    The supremacy clause (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 06:05:35 AM EST
    could be able to save the country but as we've seen the GOP is craven and cowardly. So they would never do something like that.

    It is going to be a rough four years, very rough four years. I'm at the point where Donald is the GOP's problem and it's their responsibility to handle it.

    The chaos (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by KeysDan on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:31:01 AM EST
    is just what the Trump supporters wanted.  After all, if they were looking for experience, competence, and effective government they would have voted for Hillary Clinton.

    This (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by FlJoe on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 10:30:10 AM EST
    is what happens when you hire the Creature From the Black Lagoon to "drain the swamp".

    And thank you, Jeralyn, for this post (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by Towanda on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 11:36:41 AM EST
    which was a lot of work.  

    But what is happening must be chronicled.

    At this point (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by smott on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 03:43:50 PM EST
    It doesn't look like Trump will even be able to populate the offices needed to actually run the f-ckin Govt.

    They arrived in the WH too clueless to even know they'd have to hire staff.

    They have zero, ZERO policy position papers. Unprecedented.

    Completely unprepared. Clown. Show.

    China's already moving on its own trade agreement. RUssia pulled out of the world court.

    And honestly from the look on Trump's face during his meeting w BO, I think even he has the teensiest bit of self awareness, enough to realize that he has no idea what he's doing and is so over his head he'll be a laughing stock in short order.

    I hesitate to give a guy like him credit for any self awareness at all, but I think he is tweaking.  And I think he's terrified.

    This is going to be a sh-t show and I've given up that the Republic can survive.

    I just hope the planet can.

    But America comitted suicide last Tuesday.

    It's up to the GOP (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 03:57:09 PM EST
    who have shown themselves to be completely spineless and craven to solve this problem. God help us. You are probably right about the country committing suicide. We've got generals reading the constitution in an attempt to figure out how to disobey orders.

    Can you blame the Republican national security establishment and others for not wanting to vote for Trump? Yes, it's the clown show on steroids and nobody wants to be associated with it.


    James Clapper just resigned (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:56:00 AM EST

    If that guy can't do a Trump presidency ya'll understand, this is a really bad phucking sign. Just the worst!

    Director of National Intelligence James Clapper delivered some reassurance Thursday to Americans worried about the Trump transition -- along with his resignation.

    "I know a lot of people have been feeling uncertain about what will happen with this Presidential transition," Clapper said. "There has been a lot of catastrophizing, if I can use that term, in the 24-hour news cycle and social media. So, I'm here with a message: It will be okay."

    The exit of Clapper, who submitted his resignation Wednesday evening,is not a surprise.

    In interviews with NBC News over the last year, Clapper said he was counting down the days to stepping down at the end of Obama's final term in office. He started as a young intelligence officer reporting to his father during the Vietnam War and said that after than 50 years of service it was time to go.

    Seeing who (5.00 / 3) (#124)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 11:00:47 AM EST
    Trump is picking I would say no, it's not going to be okay. There seems to be a small riot on capitol hill about getting rid of Bannon so maybe there's hope that some will press Trump to get rid of these awful people.

    I'm watching Obama in Germany (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 11:39:06 AM EST
    Telling everyone it's going to be okay. Southern Poverty already has over 400 election related hate crimes documented. It's not going to be okay

    How many? (none / 0) (#180)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Nov 18, 2016 at 02:50:38 PM EST
    How many of those were Trump supporters being beaten?

    He wasn't (none / 0) (#159)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 06:49:32 PM EST
    One of the good guys, was basically caught lying to Congress, I believe on more than one occasion.

    Ole Joe Biden said the same thing

    So, I'm here with a message: It will be okay."

    It is just the media picking up where they left off pre election...

    And they wonder why 70% of the populace do not believe a word they say


    Technically (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by MKS on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 11:41:49 AM EST
    Trump has the  authority to act.  That is basically all you said.  But more people oppose him than support him.  Just a fact.  That is not a mandate.

    I've been there (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by Yman on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 12:46:55 PM EST
    Tennessee culture is number one!

    Just not the way you mean.

    Give me a freaking break (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 02:10:18 PM EST

    Help Trump pick his cabinet. Waiting for someone to explain to me how this is a good thing.

    It is not a good thing, vic. (5.00 / 4) (#142)
    by caseyOR on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 02:38:30 PM EST
    I know you know that, but, as the country fallen through the looking glass, and down is up, I wanted to let you know that your perception is correct. Nothing about Trump is a good thing.

    The majority of voters (3.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Redbrow on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 02:34:40 PM EST
    53% voted against Hillary.

    A majority is over 50%.

    Hillary recieved only 47%.

    53% of Americans voted to take power back from the ruling class establishment elite.

    Please respect our vote.

    And more (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 02:46:20 PM EST
    voted against Trump if you are going to spin it that way. The majority voted against Trump and a bigger majority. The majority voted against xenophobia, misogyny and generally hate. You are trying to have it both ways but the fact is the most people voted for Hillary. Trump came in second place. He's what is known as a minority president.

    I never claimed the majority (none / 0) (#21)
    by Redbrow on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 03:09:23 PM EST
    Voted for Trump in the popular vote but of course that is irrelevant in deciding the winner in oir electoral college.

    I am just busting the myth that "the majority of the electorate -- who voted for Hillary".

    The majority of the electoral college voted for Trump and that is all that really matters.

    If dems truly believed that losing the popular vote by a narrow margin makes a victory illegitimate, they would have protested Obama winning in 2008 despite Hillary winning the popular vote. Where were the "not my president" signs back then?


    There are more of us than you (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 03:30:37 PM EST
    No mandate for Trump.

    Heed your master and come to heel (none / 0) (#31)
    by Redbrow on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 04:22:26 PM EST
    "That's horrifying.

    "That is not the way our democracy works. We've been around for 240 years. We have had free and fair elections.

    "We've accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them. And that is what is expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general election.

    "He is denigrating - he's talking down - our democracy and I, for one, am appalled that somebody who is the nominee of one of our two major parties would take that kind of position."



    This is really a simple (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 04:29:21 PM EST

    Hardly anyone is saying Trump will not be the duly elected President.  He will be President.

    What we are saying is he has no mandate.  Get the difference?


    We don't have a "master" (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Yman on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:13:05 AM EST
    ... but you do:

    Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us. More votes equals a loss ... revolution! This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy! Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble ... like never before. The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy. -DT

    You guys certainly didn't ... (none / 0) (#64)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 07:54:28 PM EST
    Redbrow (quoting HRC):"We've accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them. And that is what is expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general election."

    ... accept the results of the last two presidential elections, given all the fckn birther nonsense coming from your party, the eight years of GOP obstruction in Congress, and the unbridled racism that emanated noxiously from your party's hindquarters over the entire country like a cloud of sulfur dioxide.

    In fact, just yesterday Mayor Beverley Whaling of Clay, WV was compelled to resign her office after she posted her own online approval of her good friend's Facebook post, which had crudely referenced First Lady Michelle Obama as an "ape in heels":

    "At a previously scheduled meeting Tuesday night, council members condemned the comments and accepted Whaling's resignation. But they also urged outsiders to understand that the incident was not reflective of the community."

    "Not reflective of the community," my a$$! She was the mayor, fer Chrissake! And her equally lily-whitehearted friend was the frickin' director of the Clay County Development Corp.! How is that NOT reflective of the good citizens of that locale? Nope, those council members are just sorry that these two dumbbells were stupid enough to post their thoughts online where everyone could see them.

    Further, it's also reflective of you, dude. You like things that aren't politically correct? Well here you go: You white-wing jackwagons don't deserve the benefit of the doubt any more. This latest dump from your perpetual schittshow one again came from YOUR side of the political aisle, not ours. YOUR president-elect appointed an anti-Semitic white nationalist to be his administration's Chief Policy Advisor, not ours.

    So, own it, revel in it and cherish it. And while you're doing so, think about how so very proud your forebears from the 1860s, those white, God-fearing people of Rock Ridge, must be of you all right now, that you've managed to cling to and maintain such socially anachronistic and obsolete thinking well into the 21st century.



    They are not done counting (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 03:33:24 PM EST
    the vote.

    3.5 million left, as of this writing, in California alone.  Hillary should net another plus 1 million from that alone.  It is looking like she will win by 2 percentage points overall.


    You claimed (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 03:37:01 PM EST
    that the majority voted for the Trump agenda by adding everybody else in against Hillary. I'm saying I could do the same and say 54% of Americans voted against Trump's agenda.

    Trump is not losing the popular vote by a narrow margin. He's losing it by millions. Nobody is saying he didn't get the most EC votes. What they are saying is there is not widespread support for his agenda despite the denial of the people who voted for him. Trump is what is known as a minority president. You are conflating primaries with a general election which is complete nonsense. However you are the second person to bring that talking point up so it must be something the GOP has been sending out.


    You did. You said (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Towanda on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 05:33:08 PM EST
    to respect "our" -- your -- 53% of the electorate, implying that all voted Republican, and that all even voted.

    Really, you're embarrassing yourself.  Grownups are fact-based.


    LOL, that's a good one. (none / 0) (#184)
    by NYShooter on Fri Nov 18, 2016 at 11:41:58 PM EST
    No, really..........."Grownups"

    And another from lie from you (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Towanda on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 05:38:09 PM EST
    is, of course, that the Electoral College has voted.

    You really don't know how this works.  Are you one of those posting here from Macedonia?


    "The majority of the electoral college voted (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by chezmadame on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 05:32:44 AM EST
    for Trump"...

    The electoral college does not vote until December.

    The Trump strategy of courting low information voters of all stripes apparently worked in your case.

    And no, I do not respect the vote of petulant children. In fact, I respect nothing about anyone who helped put Trump in the White House. Get used to it.


    The tail can wag the dog (none / 0) (#24)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 03:34:28 PM EST
    only so long.

    Let the Midwest WWC diss CA, but we are growing; they are declining.


    Hillary winning popular vote (none / 0) (#27)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 03:41:26 PM EST
    in '08.  That must be the new GOP talking point.  It keeps popping up.  Where did you hear it?

    There was no definitive count in 2008 because of the caucuses.   But nice of your to care.



    MKS, honestly, (none / 0) (#36)
    by NYShooter on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 04:46:26 PM EST
    would you be arguing for the popular vote counting if the table was turned: Hillary winning the Electoral College number, Trump, the popular vote? My guess is you'd feel the electoral college system is just fine.

    We've had about 200 years to change the system, can't you see the hypocrisy in wanting to change it right now? It's happened, I believe, 5 times in our history, so why now? If I may answer for you, it's because Donald Trump is a horrible person, and, probably will be a horrible President. This, I believe. I also believed it when G. Bush, the 2'nd. was elected, and, millions swore they were moving to another country, mainly Canada. That's beside the point, as we all know.

    But, with all the blame, anger, acrimony, and, accusations, why isn't there any mention of the real reason Trump is now President-Elect Trump?.......Secretary Hillary Clinton was a lousy candidate, and, ran a lousy campaign. Just read what her husband, the best, and, smartest politician, at least of my lifetime, had to say.

    Bill Clinton


    I don't see (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 05:00:30 PM EST
    how linking to a British tabloid that actually shopped a fake story about the bathroom server helps you make any points.

    Yes, blame the victim. The people who are responsible for Trump in the white house are the GOP and the people that voted for him. If people could not see that someone so obviously unqualified and had a dark and dangerous vision for America shouldn't be president then we have more serious problems in this country than Hillary's campaign.


    Twice in the last (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 05:09:20 PM EST
    16 years, the popular vote winner has lost.  In 2000, Gore won the popular vote by about 500,000: Hillary will win it by about 2 million or possibly even 3 million.

    Many just chalked up 2000 as an aberration.  If we now have a permanent feature that the person with the most votes does not win because of outsized power of declining states that are bleeding population, while the nation's most populous state with the most manufacturing, agriculture, job growth etc,, is disregarded, Houston, we have a problem.

    But I have not called for elimination of the Electoral College, and I have not said Trump is not the duly elected President.  No, I have said, apart from the legality of  his position, he has no mandate.  This is an easy concept.  


    Houston doesn't have a problem. (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:02:59 PM EST
    Residents of that city, and Harris County at large, voted for Hillary Clinton by a solid 54-41% margin.



    Ha! (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:58:32 PM EST
    And Dallas, and San Antonio, and El Paso....

    Same pattern as other states.


    Lordy, I forgot Austin (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:59:28 PM EST
    Nobody is (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 05:14:48 PM EST
    going to change the EC right now to alter the results. That's a bogus argument. However the electoral college has failed the country now TWICE in 16 years. Almost half the failures have been within the last 20 years. When you have two failures like that it is time to change something. The last time we even had a brother in control of one of the states. The electoral college allows for too much power for meddling by a particular state and it's destroying democracy. Besides don't you think that a Republican in NY who votes should have their votes count?

    ... but he was not the official who was in charge of counting the ballots in 2000. That was the job of FL Secretary of State Katherine Harris, who was elected independently of the governor, but who also so happened to be fckn state chair of the Bush Cheney campaign in her state. Conflict of interest, anyone? She was the one who threw sand in the gears and impeded a full accounting of the vote in Florida, not "Jeb!"

    Honestly, NYShooter (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 05:18:46 PM EST
    Let us look to a very cherished liberal and progressive ideal--equality; everyone is equal and has equal rights.  

    In other words, every vote counts the same, no matter who casts it.  No devaluing voters from California and New York and our cities to prefer voters from smaller states, etc.  One person, one vote.  Great concept, no?


    Fine, (none / 0) (#55)
    by NYShooter on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 06:11:22 PM EST
    get the law changed.

    What's the problem? Get it done and I'll be absolutely fine with a new way to count votes.


    Good, glad you have come around (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Towanda on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 06:22:37 PM EST
    to respecting the Constitution, which has stood for more than 200 years -- rather than requiring a coup to replace it -- because the Founders in their brilliance but also their humility included the amendment process.

    They asked us to keep fixing the Constitution, so that we could keep it at all.    


    just a small correction (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by NYShooter on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 01:04:29 PM EST
    I haven't "come around" to respecting the Constitution; I've always respected it.

    Anyway, not that you should go back over my comments, but, all I've been saying is that it doesn't matter whether Clinton gets ten more popular votes, or ten million. As long as we're using the electoral college in the year 2016 that's all that matters.

    Having said that, there's no question that a big lead in popular votes means something, and, is a really big deal (as everyone's been saying here.) But, my point has been that, as long as the electoral college system is the one in play, Hillary & her team made a big mistake in their strategy, a mistake the Trump Team felt, rightfully, they could take advantage of.

    Sadly, as I said yesterday, former President Bill Clinton recognized this weakness, but was completely ignored by Mook, and Hillary herself.

    Big mistake.


    Laughable (none / 0) (#158)
    by Yman on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 05:54:52 PM EST
    But, my point has been that, as long as the electoral college system is the one in play, Hillary & her team made a big mistake in their strategy, a mistake the Trump Team felt, rightfully, they could take advantage of.

    Sadly, as I said yesterday, former President Bill Clinton recognized this weakness, but was completely ignored by Mook, and Hillary herself.

    If only they had your "expertise" to point out their "mistakes" during the campaign ....

    ... sigh.

    But your ridiculous claim from some anonymous source in the Daily Mail illustrates exactly what kind of garbage you'll believe.


    Wanna reconsider?? (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 07:57:13 PM EST
    In other words, every vote counts the same, no matter who casts it.  No devaluing voters from California and New York

    Now let me see. Your vote in CA for Hillary helped provide her with 55 electoral college votes.

    My vote in TN helped Trump get 11 electoral college votes;

    Now, what was that about every vote counts the same??


    That may be the dumbest mathematical argument (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by CoralGables on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:28:52 PM EST
    ever put forth on the topic. Your one vote actually counted for more of an electoral vote than any one person's vote in California.

    It isn't a mathematical argument (none / 0) (#107)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:57:56 AM EST
    Just a true statement of fact.

    MKS's vote affects the award of 55 electoral college votes.

    Mine affects 11.


    Can you count? (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 09:19:33 PM EST
    My vote with literally  millions of others.....

    Just count: one, two, three. Good lord.

    Jim, I will tell you this, no kids from here have any interest in going to red state America--ever. They will only leave Southern California to go to, in order: San Francisco, Vegas, Hawaii, Manhattan, D.C., and Cabo. Maybe Austin.  Not even a road trip to the Grand Canyon.  Even Europe (museums instead of girls on the beach)is a hard sell.  Some motivated by idealism will go to the developing world.   Tennessee?  Especially non-urban Tennessee? It has nothing for them.  I suspect you see your youth fleeing to our cities.

    Millennials will solve this Midwestern WWC voting issue decisively.


    We see (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 09:36:34 PM EST
    a lot of that here in Atlanta. People coming from all over the south, young people, wanting to get away from dead end places like Gallatin TN. I've had a number of neighbors that were fleeing TN. My husband and I even flew SC to live here. There are very few decent paying jobs in SC and the cost of living is the same. Family there lives hand to mouth week to week. It's sad.

    Sad to see just how (none / 0) (#105)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:54:05 AM EST
    closed mind and biased you think the millennials in SoCal are.

    But we won't miss them! But maybe they'll change. With age comes wisdom.

    In the meantime our 60% minority students school system will keep working with its 55% minority teachers all supervised by a female black superintendent who is supervised by a majority minority members school board.

    And we all be protected by a police force that has more minorities than white and a board of alderman that is 66% minority.

    BTW, the two Mexican restaurants are doing great business and the specialty Hispanic/Latino grocery store is expanding. And

    I mean we live in such an alllllll white enclave....lol

    But the funniest thing about your comment is that change a word or two....40 or so years ago.

    MKS I will tell you this, no kids from here have any interest in going to blue state America--ever. They will only leave the South to go to, in order: Jackson, Birmingham, Atlanta, Memphis, Dallas, Little Rock.  

    Time goes by and things change. Too bad you've missed the bus.


    The thing (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:58:57 AM EST
    that people like you ignore Jim is that CA is the trendsetter for the nation. And you could learn a lot from them. They had a governor that was just like Trump and he nearly destroyed the state. But like most people in the south you would rather continue to make the same mistakes over and over because doing something different is frightening.

    Ahnold was funny--at first (none / 0) (#113)
    by MKS on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 10:10:57 AM EST
    Then Maria saved him by making him go Left.  Then, thank god, he was gone.

    You really believe Tennesse is (none / 0) (#117)
    by MKS on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 10:34:24 AM EST
    the trendsetter?

    So, you have two, count them, two, Mexican food restaurants in your town? Congratulations.  You  and Trump when he eats his taco bowl can say how much you love Mexicans.

    Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?  There are two Mexican food restaurants within a stone's throw of my house.....7-10 within 3 miles....not counting Taco Bell, Del Taco and El Pollo Loco fast food drive ins.  And I firmly believe there are few really good Mexican food restaurants east of the Mississippi.  Been there. Tried it.  Didn't find anything close to what we have here.  New Mexico is probably better than here imo but people here disagree.

    As to Millennials around here--just the way it is.  I have tried to interest them in travel, etc.  No sale.  And they have no, zero, zip, nada interest in seeing relatives in red state America.  Fine if they come here.

    When asked about going somewhere that happens to be in red state America, I am asked, "Why, what do they have there that we don't have here?"  The answer is nothing, Jim.  Your state is all ga-ga over your one NFL team--we have four and the fourth one was foisted on us by the NFL this year when few here really cared.  Four NBA teams.  Four Major League Baseball teams. You have mountains?  We have more and bigger ones.  You have forests?  We have older and bigger ones.  We even have horse racing.

    Now, Hawaii, or Manhattan, that does get people's attention here.  That is different.  But the South?  Nope.  And I know Atlanta, etc., but still no one cares.

    And all you red staters are green with envy and react by trying to bash us.  No one here notices.

    And by the way, more jobs were created last year in California than Texas and Florida--combined.  We are the world's seventh largest economy.  Our growth was over 3% last year.  We lead the nation in agriculture and manufacturing. And our budget is fine.  And we hate Trump.  Really, really hate him.  So trying to ram him down our throats is not such a good idea.

    And, let's look at your metric for judging whether a culture is inferior--the flow of people.  People are leaving rural red state America.  Especially kids.  You know that.  And they do so because of an inferior culture--according to your logic.



    MKS the small town I live in (none / 0) (#172)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2016 at 12:40:03 AM EST
    has a population of 7,000.

    So of course it doesn't have 15 Mexican restaurants. ;-)

    The point I made, and you got it, is that the south has changed dramatically but all you do is watch "In the Heat of the Night..."

    I hate to pop your bubble but we don't have murders, drug dealers, gangs, etc., etc. the way you guys do. We're just grooving along getting along with each other without demanding that we get special rights.

    Basically, you haven't been here. Period. I have spent a lot of time in LA and SF and SD and some points in between. And I must say when you get away from the metro areas CA is as country as any area in the south, or north or west or east.

    And I always enjoyed visiting and conducting business. Some great restaurants and a host of things to do.

    But outside of missing the Commerce Card Casino I wouldn't want to live there.

    And one of the most amazing things about here is...housing is affordable and taxes are low.

    And you deliberately misunderstand my position re the flow of people. As you know I was  referring to Mexico and Central America. If they didn't have trouble people wouldn't be flooding into such places as TN.  lol

    And ga ga over an NFL team?? Are you kidding me?? Really? You think having pro sports teams are important?? Your lack of a sense of what is important is astounding.

    What we think important are the many universitiesand the two years free.

    Have a nice day.


    Jim, (none / 0) (#176)
    by MKS on Fri Nov 18, 2016 at 10:16:21 AM EST
    Now you are lecturing me about California--just like you were opining on traffic times?  If you check the county by county results, they are  almost all blue.

    And all those cities you said your youth go to in or near Tennessee are most likely Democratic cities, no?

    I wrote, if you will read, that I talked about sports teams because that is what interests many Southerners--they get their civic identity from their local football teams, etc.  That is not the case here, but even by that metric, you just cannot compare.

    If you do not want to live here, good, please stay away.  No need really to boost CA--it sells itself.  

    I will grant you this--Tennessee is the origin by some accounts of a very striking literary figure.  Do you  know who that is--without googling?  That author is a good example of how the past dominates red state America.  



    "The past isn't dead. (none / 0) (#177)
    by jondee on Fri Nov 18, 2016 at 12:28:33 PM EST
    It isn't even past."

    A famous ole southern boy said that.

    Personally, I prefer "let the dead bury their dead."


    Well, you and I know (none / 0) (#178)
    by MKS on Fri Nov 18, 2016 at 12:51:34 PM EST
    who I am talking about.  Think Jim does?

    I do. That person is not just ... (none / 0) (#187)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 03:45:27 AM EST
    ... a southern writer, but is considered one of the truly great American authors, period. The South has been home to many wonderful and talented writers. And yeah, for almost all of these writers and their work, the past is prologue and Southerners are forever trying to climb out from under it. And few characters in Southern drama are more beholden to that past than Tennessee Williams' Blanche DuBois in "A Streetcar Named Desire" and Amanda Wingfield in "The Glass Menagerie."



    Before you get too enamored (none / 0) (#181)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 18, 2016 at 06:45:02 PM EST
    of the popular vote you should remember that this campaign was fought under the old rules. Should it be under a "popular vote wins" the candidates would campaign differently.  I don't think either wasted any time in states they felt was lost. So if Trump spent time in CA...how many votes would he get?? Would Hillary increase her 35% in TN?

    Neither of us knows. I do think it safe to say that people who vote didn't because they knew their vote wouldn't count would vote. So both candidates would increase their totals. This seems to appeal to you. As Shooter said, change the Constitution. But neither of us knows the result.

    And I am not lecturing you. I merely note that I have been there, enjoyed it but wouldn't want to live there. At one time one of the region offices that reported to me was in San Ramon. Several of the staff had one to one and a half hour commutes each way. Fifteen hours a week commuting isn't very appealing.

    And I can't resist reminding you that I gave you transit time. From deplaning the aircraft to getting luggage to renting a car and exiting the airport and then driving to the destination. That's a completely different from walking out the door and getting into your car and driving to the destination.

    And that's part of the problem we face as a nation and why Hillary lost.  The Right sees the question as stated. The Left doesn't see the context.

    And you wrote:

    I talked about sports teams because that is what interests many Southerners-

    And that is unique to Southerners??  What do you base that on? Watching ESPN on Saturday? Have you ever been to Lincoln, NE on a warm fall afternoon? Seattle on a drizzly one? Boulder on a cold day with the wind blowing and spitting snow? How about Mile High when the Broncos play the Raiders? I have. And the collective nuttiness is a fun thing to see and matches 100,000 singing Rocky Top.

    That is not the case here, but even by that metric, you just cannot compare.

    Uh, MKS. We don't want to compare. But one of the nice things here is that a student can drive to anyone of 5 universities, one community college and a VoTec school in about an hour.

    Striking literary figure? Hmmm, could be Tennessee Williams except he was born in MS, lived most of his life in NYC and has been dead almost 34 years. Maybe it was that dude from NY that made Henning famous.  But who cares?

    We have moved on. You remain stuck in the 60's.

    Anyway, Trump has appointed Sessions AG. The next question is when will he appoint a grand jury to investigate the Clinton Foundation and pay for play!


    No, not Tennesse Williams (none / 0) (#183)
    by MKS on Fri Nov 18, 2016 at 08:16:23 PM EST
    jondee would be a good tutor if he were so inclined.

    And, no, you said "drive time."


    Well, I see that you have never been to (1.00 / 1) (#190)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 10:19:58 AM EST
    Henning or watched "Roots." Probably too young when it first ran.

    And it couldn't be "The Liberation of Lord Byron Jones." ;-)

    But I am glad to see that you recognize the failure of your arguments and want to play games...

    And the question asked was what airport to fly into and travel time. Of course you may have never flown so you have no idea that getting off, luggage pickup, rent in a car, getting out of the airport is as much drive time as being stuck in traffic or waiting at traffic lights.

    But enough silly games.

    And you keep dodging. Given that Hillary will get a plurality of the votes cast, not a majority of the voters, does this mean that she will form a government in exile?

    And are you yet willing to admit that Hillary's chief problem was that she wouldn't face up to the lies she told re the emails. I admit I was shocked when she kept it in the news by denying what everybody could see on TV.

    A smart candidate would have just admitted three years ago that she shouldn't have done it and dumped all the emails to Congress.

    Unless, of course, there was quid pro quo evidence.

    And it is never the crime...always the cover up. How Nixonesque of her.


    she told no lies (5.00 / 4) (#193)
    by mm on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 03:52:06 PM EST
    And are you yet willing to admit that Hillary's chief problem was that she wouldn't face up to the lies she told re the emails.

    Everything she said from Day 1 was shown to be true.  You may have won the electoral but you are not going to write the history.

    dumped all the emails to Congress.

    Are what pretext did Trey Gowdy and Jason Chaffetz have to go reading through all her emails?


    heh (none / 0) (#199)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 09:10:12 PM EST
    4 Pinnochios

    And that was about something that no one cared about.

    And then there was the the Benghazi parents...

    And the emails..,.


    For those who are reading challenged (5.00 / 2) (#202)
    by Yman on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 09:22:45 PM EST
    ... the subject being discussed was the emails.  But you have no evidence to back up your bu//$hit claims of email "lies" so you try to divert and distract.


    BTW - Being a Trumper, you should probably avoid accusing others of lying.  He wins the prize by far.  His supporters are even worse.


    Knoxville's Cormac McCarthy (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 04:51:42 PM EST
    Has been called among other things the heir to Faulkner; hence, jondee's Faulkner quote about the past. And his work has been compared to Melville by Harold Bloom.  (Not the popular pulp that won him an Oscar.)

    Too bad you don't know him.

    Yes, I have flown, and yes, you talked about "drive time."  

    Hillary's popular vote lead does mean Trump does not have a mandate or popular support--not that anyone is contesting Trump's right to be President.  Why is that so hard to fathom?


    Nope this (none / 0) (#198)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 08:58:52 PM EST
    was the subject and what I wrote:

    Fly into John Wayne (none / 0) (#144)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 25, 2015 at 04:17:17 PM CST
    and pick up Rt 1 if you want some scenery.
    Otherwise take the 405 down to the 5 and then down it. Should take about 90 minutes road time depending on traffic. John Wayne is easy to rent a car at and easy to get in/out.

    And you're right. I saw the movie, and haven't read a thing by the Tennessee literary figure Cormac McCarthy.

    Cormac McCarthy is fluent in Spanish and lived in Ibiza, Spain, in the 1960s and later settled in El Paso, Texas, where he lived for nearly 20 years.[21] In the late 1990s, McCarthy moved to the Tesuque, New Mexico area, north of Santa Fe, with his third wife, Jennifer Winkley, and their son, John. McCarthy and Winkley divorced in 2006.

    I hate to tell you this but Texas isn't TN.

    And TN's 11 votes still go to Trump.


    Omigod (none / 0) (#201)
    by MKS on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 09:17:32 PM EST
    You are still at?

    90 minutes "road time."  Your words.  No, it doesn't and never takes 90 minutes to get from John Wayne to Laguna Niguel.

    And, "Rt 1" if you want some scenery?  No. NO. And HELL NO.  PCH (what Highway 1 is called) is not the scenic way from John Wayne to Laguna Niguel.  That is absurd.

    And Knoxville is very proud of Cormac. He grew up there and went to the University of Tennessee. His first three novels are set in Tennessee or Appalachia.  Why fight on this?  I was paying your state a compliment.

    Cormac McCarthy did migrate first to El Paso, and then Santa Fe, so I guess Tennessee culture was ultimately deemed inferior and could not hold him, no?


    You still don't get it (none / 0) (#203)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 20, 2016 at 09:43:35 AM EST
    the question was about how long it would take from the time you get off the plane...

    Having never heard of Cormac McCarthy I have no idea as to why he has done anything. He seems to be a producer of pop culture and the level of insights that John D MacDonald produced with his Knight Errant, Travis McGee. Although I will hazard a guess  that while McGee believed in the good of man McCarthy writes of man's darker nature.

    And your attempt to wiggle out of the fact that Mexico's and Central America's culture, based on the Catholic church, rich land owners with peasants huddled around, has led to the problems that cause these countries to spew people.

    And it is amusing that you don't deny it, you just claim an equivalence with various migrations inside the US.

    Well, there's a lot of Okie blood in CA. And, unlike the sanctuary cities welcoming the undocumented, the Okies weren't loved.

    The families packed their belongings and set out on a journey of three days or more .... Some 38 percent of the southwestern migrants chose Los Angeles. They did not find a warm reception. Briefly in 1936 the Los Angeles police established a "'bum blockade'" at the California border to keep out undesirables.



    And the Southern share cropper (none / 0) (#205)
    by jondee on Sun Nov 20, 2016 at 11:41:54 AM EST
    and fundamentalist faith healer-televangelist culture has produced a font of innovation and cutting edge, open-minded inquiry?

    Speaking of cultural backwaters.


    You're about 65 years behind (none / 0) (#208)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 20, 2016 at 05:38:32 PM EST
    Share cropping went out in the late 40's and early 50's with the mechanization of farming.

    And look out your window at up state NY if you wanna see some real country.


    The South is the United State's equivalent (none / 0) (#211)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 21, 2016 at 12:53:01 PM EST
    of the cultural backwaters you luridly portray as existing in Latin America..

    There are deeply ingrained cultural reasons why the Southern states generally spend the least amount on education, and as a result, have the worst schools, lowest literacy rates, lowest percentage of students who go on to college, highest rates of morbid obesity and teenage pregnancy..

    And to compound the South's problems, they also have to contend with an overabundance of hyperdefensive neoconfederate types like Jim, whose false pride refuses to allow them to acknowledge that anything's awry.


    Well, I handed Jim (none / 0) (#210)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 21, 2016 at 11:32:01 AM EST
    Tennessee's best extant writer on a silver platter, someone with real talent, and Mr. Culture compared him to J. D. McDonald.  

    Shows you how advanced this culture is that Jim speaks of.


    Why? (none / 0) (#200)
    by Yman on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 09:16:02 PM EST
    And are you yet willing to admit that Hillary's chief problem was that she wouldn't face up to the lies she told re the emails. I admit I was shocked when she kept it in the news by denying what everybody could see on TV.

    A smart candidate would have just admitted three years ago that she shouldn't have done it and dumped all the emails to Congress.

    Unless, of course, there was quid pro quo evidence.

    Why would anyone "admit" to silly, bu//$hit claims and cowardly conspiracy theory smears?

    BTW - The relevance of her winning the popular vote has nothing to do with your strawman claims of some "government in exile" and everything to do with the fact that your orange, whiner-in-chief has no mandate.


    They don't have no murders (none / 0) (#179)
    by jondee on Fri Nov 18, 2016 at 01:00:43 PM EST
    in Tennessee..

    Outside of perennially hovering near the top ten for violent crime year after year, and leading entire nation at least a couple of times in the last ten years in forcible rape rates..


    Dear gawwwwwwd ... (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by Yman on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:22:50 AM EST
    Sometimes,  reading these things actually hurts.

    TN population - 6,600,000
    CA population - 39,145,000

    Thank God my children don't go to school in the South.


    You tout George W Bush (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 05:27:15 PM EST
    as a positive example of an electoral college winner who loses the popular vote?  Really?

    Yes, that worked out really well.


    Algore did not win a majority (none / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:09:23 PM EST
    he won a purality...

    As did these



    And your point is -- what, exactly? (5.00 / 5) (#70)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:14:21 PM EST
    Al Gore still had 500,000 more votes than did George W. Bush. Period.

    Did I say that? (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 09:06:17 PM EST
    I said he had more than W and won the popular vote.

    The "real reason" - heh (none / 0) (#54)
    by Yman on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 06:08:13 PM EST
    But, with all the blame, anger, acrimony, and, accusations, why isn't there any mention of the real reason Trump is now President-Elect Trump?.......Secretary Hillary Clinton was a lousy candidate, and, ran a lousy campaign. Just read what her husband, the best, and, smartest politician, at least of my lifetime, had to say.

    I can't tell if you're going for sarcasm or are really that delusional, but the Daily Mail citing some bu//$hit anonymous "source" has just as much credibility.


    Interesting take (none / 0) (#163)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 07:31:12 PM EST
    And lends more support for the Electoral College, and a reason why they will never get enough states to ratify its removal for the popular vote

    The truth is that the Electoral College worked exactly as designed. Hillary Clinton leads in the popular vote, which is still being tabulated, but by just over 1.3 million votes. David Wasserman's Cook Report spreadsheet shows Hillary with a 3.2 million vote advantage in California, 1.5 million in New York, and nearly a million in Massachusetts as of this morning. That's over five and a half million votes from three states, with the results from the other 47 states showing Hillary trailing by over four million votes. Requiring a state-by-state tabulation forces candidates to appeal to a broader range of voters and to acquire more of a consensus -- and considering what happened in the House, Senate, and state legislative races, it's difficult to argue that the GOP win doesn't reflect the true electoral consensus in the nation.

    She is ahead in other states too (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by MKS on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 07:34:56 PM EST
    Cherry picking to make an argument.

    If you consider the GOP ran up the score in the Deep South, I am not so sure they should control the country.

    We you deny your most dynamic, productive states power, you have a problem.


    Yes (none / 0) (#165)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 07:42:46 PM EST
    She will win maybe 230 electoral college votes.

    But that "popular vote" edge she has, is mostly attributed to 3 states.

    Not a large crossection of the country.

    Just some statistics as to why most states would not vote out the electoral college


    No. Again, that is cherry-picking (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 10:49:16 PM EST
    by you of one source that cherry-picked those three states.  

    That is not at all sufficient evidence to support your argument.

    I bet that you're capable of going to the Cook Political Report site to see the evidence from ALL states and to select some, all on your own, to then come on back here to make an original contribution.

    Show us that you can do so.  It would do wonders for your credibility here.


    Nope (none / 0) (#182)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Nov 18, 2016 at 06:57:48 PM EST
    David Wasserman's Cook Report spreadsheet shows Hillary with a 3.2 million vote advantage in California, 1.5 million in New York, and nearly a million in Massachusetts as of this morning. That's over five and a half million votes from three states, with the results from the other 47 states showing Hillary trailing by over four million votes.

    I've seen enough, and it fully supports all the arguments for the Electoral College.
    3 coastal states provided Madame Sec with a 5.5 million vote advantage. They still get plenty of clout with all the electoral votes those 3 states provide, but not a 1 to 1 ratio. We will have to disagree, but those statistics alone illustrate the benefit of a Electoral College.


    ... is also nearly 1 million, and those four states also account for 25% of the U.S. population. Why shouldn't their political clout in this country be commensurate to their actual size?

    Instead, the Electoral College has effectively Balkanized whole sections of the country as far as the presidential race is concerned, while compelling candidates to spend an inordinate amount of time during the general election campaigning in a handful of so-called "battleground states," to the virtual exclusion of everyone else who lives anywhere else.

    It's stupid.


    I would suggest (none / 0) (#191)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 12:19:29 PM EST
    A better approach would be to de fang the Federal Government and give powers back to the states,

    Instead of 3 or 4 states threatening to secede as they overwhelmingly supported the losing candidate, it would leave the Federal Government less power to affect their daily lives.  

    Regardless, the Electoral College is here to stay.


    You really (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 04:23:01 PM EST
    want a few states deciding who is president? Of course you do. You can get a minority GOP president. It's happened twice and likely to happen again.

    And we did the giving rights back to the states thing and guess what? They abused it to the max. The whole states rights thing was built on the institution of slavery and slave states fearing they were going to be overruled. I swear the stain of slavery on this country still has not been resolved unfortunately if people like you are even suggesting something like that.


    Power (none / 0) (#196)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 04:52:17 PM EST
    back the States is a slippery slope toward a new feudalism. If the United States is to remain united, each state cannot have it's own set of contradictory laws over most of the big issues.

    BTW: As far as affecting daily lives, the red states get more federal dollars back than they pay in, bigly.

    The poor deluded fools.


    Separate out (none / 0) (#206)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 20, 2016 at 12:06:12 PM EST
    the military and research dollars and you'll see a different picture.

    As to the (none / 0) (#209)
    by FlJoe on Mon Nov 21, 2016 at 10:48:41 AM EST
    Military- go fungible yourself
    Research- Don't tell me that you redstaters are profiting off the great "hoax"

    my city councilmember (none / 0) (#197)
    by linea on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 05:28:24 PM EST
    is good. i would be fine with eliminating the state governments in favor of direct democracy Federal government one-person-one-vote with no electoral college. the we would have national representation and local representation.

    Why? You really don't know?? (none / 0) (#207)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 20, 2016 at 12:17:21 PM EST
    Why shouldn't their political clout in this country be commensurate to their actual size?

    Because it is the United States of America and not the United States of MA, CA, IL, NY and Their Supporting Cast.

    All 57 should have a say.


    "3 states" - heh (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by Yman on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 02:08:20 PM EST
    But that "popular vote" edge she has, is mostly attributed to 3 states.

    Not a large crossection of the country.

    Not that your point is even relevant, but any one of those states is a larger "crossection" than Trump's supporters.


    LOL (5.00 / 7) (#25)
    by smott on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 03:36:11 PM EST
    Dude clue in.
    CLinton won the popular vote and the margin is growing every day.

    Given the million votes still to be counted it is likely the margin will be 2million+ more votes than Trump.

    That will make her the second most popular Prez candidate in the history of the United States.

    Your guy lost the popular vote.

    By a LOT.

    More every day.


    And as of 5:00 p.m. EST on Wed. Nov. 15, ... (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 04:06:51 PM EST
    ... Hillary Clinton's lead in the nationwide popular vote has expanded to 1,221,840.

    Hillary currently leading in Orange County (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 04:27:20 PM EST
    She was up by 5% yesterday.

    Today in Orange County: 50.1 to 44.3 in favor of Hillary.  Hillary is winning by 5.8 points.


    Trump was crushed in California. (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 07:15:02 PM EST
    Hillary took 61.6% of the vote there, which after Hawaii (62.2%) was her most impressive state performance. And as has been noted, there are still nearly 3.5 million absentee ballots left to count in CA.

    And Trump took about 65% (none / 0) (#60)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 07:29:31 PM EST
    in TN.

    And your point is???


    The point here, Jim, is that ... (none / 0) (#71)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:19:29 PM EST
    ... MKS and I were actually discussing the election in California, and not Tennessee. You're the one who charged in a$$-first with your non sequitur.

    WTF? (none / 0) (#102)
    by MKS on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:29:59 AM EST
    Tennessee--not relevant.  Sorry, just not relevant.

    Trump did not spend a dime (none / 0) (#129)
    by Redbrow on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 11:55:44 AM EST
    Or any time campaigning in California.

    Because he was playing the game by elctoral votes.

    A popular vote strategy woukd have been completely different and he his trategy woukd have changed accordingly.


    Hillary (none / 0) (#131)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 12:07:12 PM EST
    didn't campaign in California for the general election either. People know Trump's stances and they strongly dislike him in a lot of places. He didn't campaign in Montana and yet he got votes there. The fact is that Americans all over the country voted and millions more voted for Hillary. Trump is a minority president. You can't deny that fact.

    With that lead nationwide (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 04:40:48 PM EST
    and 3.5 million left to count in California, her popular vote lead will probably be north of 2 million.

    Are they ever going to ... (none / 0) (#47)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 05:35:45 PM EST
    finish counting votes in Wisconsin?

    Clinton only 1% behind. And there's supposedly another 5% of the vote outstanding.

    I know even if WI flipped it wouldn't change the outcome.

    But it would have an impact from a PR standpoint.


    After seeing (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 05:47:33 PM EST
    Trump in action I wonder if some of these states left to count are going to magically flip to Hillary. They might not want to be stuck with the stench.

    Maybe counting ... (none / 0) (#52)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 05:59:57 PM EST
    rather than magic is all that's required.

    It all depends upon who's counting the votes. (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 07:02:58 PM EST
    For all the GOP's self-serving and disingenuous squawking about voter fraud, the evidence clearly shows that on those occasions when true electoral fraud does occur, it's far more likely to take place in the subsequent tallying of one's ballot at the county / district level, rather than in the initial casting of one's vote at the precinct level.

    Therefore, the real question shouldn't be if we can trust voters but rather, can we trust the people who are actually counting the votes to do so honestly. I daresay most Americans would rightly be upset and outraged, if ever they realized just how many cast ballots simply don't get counted in various jurisdictions across the country for one reason or another.

    While composing this post, I became curious about the issue, so I called my longtime friend in Honolulu who also so happens to be Chief Clerk of the City and County of Honolulu, who oversees all elections on Oahu. He and I used to work together for House leadership, and he knows this stuff so thoroughly that you have to wonder if he actually has a life outside the office. (Just kidding, Glenn.) He told me the following, which was even worse that I realized:

    • More than 750,000 provisional ballots were not counted at all during the final tallies of the 2012 general election, even though most of those ballots had been cast by otherwise eligible voters.
    • Provisional ballots comprised 11.3% of all votes cast at polling places in Washington state in 2012, the highest percentage in the country.
    • Further, the percentage of provisional ballots actually counted ranged from 100% in Maine and 97% in Alaska, to 0% in Idaho and 6.3% in Delaware.
    • Nationwide, the percentage of provisional ballots counted was a paltry 48% in 2012. This year, with the advent of voter restrictions in more than a few states including Wisconsin, that percentage will likely be worse.


    A real tragedy is occuring in America (none / 0) (#185)
    by NYShooter on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 12:01:22 AM EST
    I've been studying most of this past year, as much as I possibly could, regarding the issue of vote tampering. Restricting voter access is also a big issue, but, "counting" votes (as I think you stated here a while back) is a much bigger problem.(for more reasons than I have time to explain tonight. But, one is, it's easier) Two quick reasons are....electronic voting machines nationwide are quite old, and, poorly protected. And, two, the art of hacking has grown exponentially in the last few years.

    Oh, one more, the biggie: As far as I've been able to learn, this type of fraud is big, and growing bigger very, very fast.

    AND, BOTH Parties are equally guilty as far as the researchers have been able to ascertain so far.


    Prrof? Links? Researchers names? (none / 0) (#189)
    by vicndabx on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 06:59:54 AM EST
    "Researchers"? (none / 0) (#204)
    by Yman on Sun Nov 20, 2016 at 11:30:53 AM EST
    "Researchers" suggests actual studies - actual data - actual evidence.  Yet you offer none to back up this tinfoil, conspiracy theory.

    There ARE actual studies of voting fraud out there.  Real studies, not those you are imagining, and they don't back up the conspiracy theories you're trying to sell.


    As of 11:00 p.m. EST on Thurs. Nov. 17, ... (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 10:58:32 PM EST
    ... Mrs. Clinton's lead in the nationwide popular vote is 1,437,316.

    And nobody cares (none / 0) (#111)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 10:06:48 AM EST
    and the Repubs are in power.

    You don't (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 10:34:39 AM EST
    care but millions of Americans do care. Trump is a minority president. He's second place with the people that voted. He's coming into office with the lowest approval rating ever 42% approve and 55% disapprove. Embrace it Jim.

    And yes, the GOP is 100% responsible for this disaster. You broke it. You bought it and you will be held responsible.


    Hahahahahahaha ... interesting "logic" (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by Yman on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 06:04:36 PM EST
    By your logic, 55%+ voted against Trump.

    Please respect OUR vote.

    BTW - Love how a Trump supporter has decided the third party votes are theirs.  They have as much difficulty with the truth as their candidate.


    misleading numbers Redbrow (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 12:38:24 AM EST
    Hillary received 61,993,136 votes as of now. Trump received 60,948,83 votes as of now.
    She got more than 1 million more votes than he did.

    He has no mandate.

    The Cook Political report has newer numbers than CNN. As of today, she has 62,824,858 votes to Trump's 61,484,120.

    She is at 47.9% while he has slipped to 46.9%.

    Please don't post misleading (or false) statistics here, such comments will be deleted.


    Jeralyn, of course you're right (none / 0) (#138)
    by NYShooter on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 01:38:14 PM EST
    but, nobody is disputing the fact that Hillary won the popular vote. I think the argument stems from the many dozens of posts, minute by minute updates, as Hillary's popular vote keeps increasing. But, again, no one is disputing that. I think the frustration stems from the breathless way each new popular vote increase is reported, as if there's some magic number out there that will change who the next President will be. It's an argument without an opponent.

    Hillary will win the popular vote.....big time.

    Donald Trump will be the next President.

    All this minute by minute updating does is give more opportunities to hurl insults and invectives.  I can't stand Donald Trump, having 100 updates on the count won't change my opinion one iota. I've got CNN to keep me updated on the count, I would think we've got more interesting things to discuss here on Talk Left.


    The debate is about a mandate (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 05:50:34 PM EST
    not about the winner.

    That has been made clear here, again and again.

    If you don't want to change your opinion -- and if you want to rely on CNN instead of better sources on this topic -- why keep reading and posting on it?


    Aw come on (none / 0) (#2)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 07:32:45 AM EST
    Jeralyn, it has been a whole week.

    Having been involved in a start up I can promise you that there are always shuffles and re-shuffles as people's talents are plugged in first one position and then the other. What's required is flexibility and the willingness to tuck your ego in your pocket and be a team player.

    Some people can't do that. If they are honest they just move on. If they aren't they stick around and have to be removed. It's a fluid process with no guidelines.

    I didn't pay any attention to how long Obama took and don't see the reason for all the media's "inside baseball" criticizing beyond their hatred of Trump and the rejection of the media by the people who vote.

    Have a nice day! I'm off to a p$ker tournament and could use some of the luck Trump's had!

    Jim (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 07:52:01 AM EST
    it's always been obvious that Trump can't manage anything. He couldn't even manage his own casinos. However I am not surprised to see Trump apologia coming from you and I'm sure we'll see more and more of it in the future.

    GA, he's been there a week.... (none / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 07:49:25 PM EST
    Look, do me a favor.

    Find something new to criticize Trump about. And be original.

    Hillary has won a plurality not a majority.

    No one cares if he takes his time. You'd be saying he was acting too fast if had named some.



    Feh (none / 0) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:06:50 PM EST
    he just had 3 transition team members quit on him. It is a stinking orange farce.

    Doesn't matter if Hillary won a plurality or a majority. It's still millions more than Trump is going to win and you can already see him melting down about coming in 2nd place with the voters of the country.

    It seems like the GOP is looking for a way to get rid of him though. Graham and McCain are going to start hearings on his ties to Putin and there are rumors of impeachment already starting. Too bad if they were going to blow up the GOP they didn't do it at the convention instead of making us all go through a removal of a president. Maybe they will get him declared mentally insane. That might be easier.


    GA, it took Obama 3 weeks (none / 0) (#97)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:17:15 AM EST
    to announce his first cabinet member.

    Look, I know you've gone over the edge and can't grasp that Trump will be Prez.

    But please! Knock off the inside baseball bit. No one but the media, whose actions and bias elected Trump, and partisan Democrats cares.  


    Jim (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:26:27 AM EST
    he's a minority president. The people that have gone over the edge are people like you.

    I have to laugh though. His entire economic team is going to be Goldman Sachs bankers. He sure played you for a fool didn't he? LOL.

    Grifters are gonna grift and he'll steal from you and everybody else like he has done his entire life. Millions more people did not vote for him so I think we're good as a country. Even George Will said it's a Pyrrhic victory for the GOP and the time bomb is waiting to go off. Too bad though you want to hurt so many people even commit suicide on yourself for Trump.


    Comparatively (none / 0) (#92)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 06:01:43 AM EST
    Compared to prior administrations, the incoming one is right on schedule.
    All the media hand wringing is just adding to the 70% number that doesn't trust them.

    Republicans (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 08:01:23 AM EST
    are saying don't go to work for Trump. People are quitting. He's putting incompetent people in every position and wants his son in law to have top security clearance so the son in law can sit in on national security meetings. This is not normal. This is orange clown level danger and stupidity to our country.

    Thats odd (none / 0) (#161)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 06:57:31 PM EST
    Nikki Haley and Mitt Romney are being interviewed for positions.

    Are they Republican?

    Establishment Republican?


    rumors (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 08:57:51 PM EST
    He hates mitt but it certainly blows up your theory you've been concern trolling. He wants to hand sc to his crony and wants to get Haley out. This is all about cronyism and vendettas

    I have commented twice about this. (none / 0) (#4)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:24:43 AM EST
    Glad to see you are getting it.

    "Anyone he appoints is likely to land us in World War III, at home and abroad."

    The US will be a pariah nation within two years. We will be South Africa from the 60s. We will be North Korea. Bolton, Giuliani, Trump will insult the world.

    For the next four years, (5.00 / 5) (#7)
    by KeysDan on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 10:24:00 AM EST
    I will wake up in the morning and ask: Is anything all right?

    And the damnedest thing about it is that ... (none / 0) (#12)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 11:13:51 AM EST
    ... we did this to ourselves. Everyone saw this chinchilla-haired yahoo in living color, especially in the final two months and during those three debates, and yet he was elected anyway. It's dumbfounding, shameful and disgraceful.

    I could see the momentum switching even before (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by Cashmere on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 04:33:19 PM EST
    Comey's absurd letter to Congress (grrr).  Voters have such short attention spans!  I was thinking it would have been better to have a debate much closer to voting, as she killed all the debates. There was no question who would make the better president.  What a fiasco this election was.

    I think you're likely right. (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:34:16 PM EST
    Setting aside for the moment its dubiously convenient timing and vagueness of detail, The most disturbing thing about James Comey's letter to GOP congressional leaders was the awful precedent it set, by which the director of a major federal agency charged with law enforcement decided to place his thumb on the political scales while an electoral campaign hung in the balance.

    Whether or not Comey's effort was actually effective in tipping those scales to Trump is wholly beside the point. The actual damage done to democracy was entirely in his appearance that he did so for partisan purposes. Further, he blatantly thumbed his nose at longstanding DOJ protocols and ignored the Attorney General.

    As for the AG herself, Loretta Lynch deserves a fair portion of the blame here because as Comey's immediate superior at DOJ, she merely advised him to not send that letter, when she really should have ordered him in no uncertain terms to stand down until after Nov. 8.



    Yes, short attention span (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by KeysDan on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 11:25:04 PM EST
    for Trump. Long memories for Hillary Clinton.

    How to Unify the Country (none / 0) (#6)
    by womanwarrior on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 10:20:22 AM EST
    Poke a stick in everyone's eye by bringing in the pond scum you promised you would drain the pond to get rid of.  Cute.  

    Ben Carson, (none / 0) (#9)
    by KeysDan on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 10:50:00 AM EST
    a Republican primary candidate for President of the United States, will not accept a post in the Trump administration.  Carson's spokesman, Armstrong Williams stated: "Dr. Carson feels he has no government experience, he never ran a federal agency.  The last thing he would want to do was take a position that could cripple the country."

    Dr. Ben Carson:

    My decision not to seek a cabinet position in the Trump administration has nothing to do with the complexity of the job as is being reported by some news outlets. I believe it is vitally important for the Trump administration to have many outspoken friends and advisers who are outside of the Washington bubble. It is vital to have independent voices of reason and reconciliation if our nation is to heal and regain its greatness. I will continue to work with the transition team and beyond as we build a dynamite executive branch of government.

    Heh - blaming the media outlets (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Yman on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 05:45:36 PM EST
    "Dr. Carson doesn't feel like that's the best way for him to serve the president-elect," the advisor, Armstrong Williams, told Reuters.

    "Dr. Carson feels he has no government experience, he's never run a federal agency," Williams told the Hill newspaper. "The last thing he would want to do was take a position that could cripple the presidency."

    You ...... ran ..... for
    ..... PRESIDENT.

    "dynamite"? (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 12:25:37 AM EST
    Is he acknowledging the government is about to blow up with Trump at the helm?

    Ben Carson, Independent Voice of Reason (none / 0) (#14)
    by FreakyBeaky on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 11:49:27 AM EST
    They're even screwing up non-appointments.

    LOL (none / 0) (#15)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 12:22:11 PM EST
    Of course, Carson thought he was competent enough to be president....

    Rutgers prof tweeted about Trump (none / 0) (#10)
    by Towanda on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 10:53:43 AM EST
    so campus cops sent NYPD to prof's home and put him in Bellevue for a psych evaluation.

    Joe McCarthy is enjoying this.

    That was a terrible read (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 01:17:41 PM EST
    Ironic satire will getcha institutionalized in Trumpland

    Was this (none / 0) (#37)
    by NYShooter on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 04:50:16 PM EST
    Trump's doing?

    I have long noted that the mindset of (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 07:37:16 PM EST
    A presidency becomes the mindset of the US military. You can practically chart that now.

    The black president who worked so so so hard to never appear angry would have never inspired such a reaction. All of our lizard brains are firing now, in order to survive.


    Is law enforcement incapable (none / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 07:38:17 PM EST
    Of comprehending Chomsky?

    Noam Chomsky? (none / 0) (#76)
    by linea on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:35:05 PM EST
    This is a national emergency (none / 0) (#17)
    by Coral on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 01:41:09 PM EST
    I can barely stand to peek at newspaper headlines. Is there any way that the electoral college could vote for the winner of popular vote and avoid a Trump presidency?

    The EC could (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 01:56:28 PM EST
    override the voters in their states but it's unlikely. The GOP really needs to do something to rectify this but I don't have any faith that they will. The GOP would rather blow up the country.

    It's so difficult to accept (none / 0) (#95)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:02:07 AM EST
    But we are going to have to go through this :(

    Read Bill Moyers, watched Jon Stewart, it's going to be hell but this is where we are.

    I am incapable of comprehending this President. Every lesson I ever learned, every cut or scrape or bruise I healed from he stands in defiance of.

    But my nation will have to go through this.

    I read Rob Reiner too this morning. He said there were only two Presidents elected who immediately had people in the streets and he said they were Lincoln and Trump. In both cases race was a factor. He said we are fighting the last fight of the civil war now. I think he's onto something.


    The GOP embrace (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:35:35 AM EST
    of fascism is going to be there for all to see. The good news is it looks like Americans are going to rise up against it.

    Two boys with their own trucks (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 04:49:41 PM EST
    Were flying rebel flags in the bed of them at Enterprise high school until they were told 2 weeks ago by the Principal that they could not do that. So they fly American flags but every kid of color knows what's up with these phuckers. We all saw the rebel flags. I pick my son up from school, the black kids look miserable. I see some parents of color also choosing to pick their kids up right now, no bus riding, no leaving school driving alone.

    The two truck jerks actually blocked a school bus on the roadway. Blocked traffic so they could leave and not wait and be patient like everyone else. There is a rule we all know on school grounds, school buses have the right of way. They are transporting many more bodies and picking up grade schoolers after they pick up high school. But these two Trumpy Klansmen have no rules. Not like the rest of us. This is just great!

    Can't leave this $hithole soon enough!


    Trumpland (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 05:44:41 PM EST
    It's gonna get worse before it gets better. Good news Trump is going in with a 55% disapproval rate. At that rate Trumpland is going to collapse within a year. Too bad the GOP is full of nothing but spineless craven people who are willing to let this kind of thing happen. They can't even be bothered to say it is wrong.

    It's going to be ugly (none / 0) (#112)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 10:09:46 AM EST
    I thought you couldn't ... (none / 0) (#39)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 05:03:52 PM EST
    be given top security clearance if you had a blood relative who'd been convicted of a Federal offense.

    Jared Kushner's father, Charles Kushner, served time for tax evasion and several other offenses.

    this (none / 0) (#74)
    by linea on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:32:36 PM EST
    would be ridiculous.

    i think it's just a spouse (none / 0) (#86)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 10:25:34 PM EST
    or cohabitant, not a parent. See here.

    2. Are members of my family or people living with me subject to a security check?
    There are circumstances in which limited records checks or an investigation may be conducted on a spouse or cohabitant*. National agency checks are conducted on spouses and/or cohabitants of individuals being processed for a Top Secret level clearance, with the spouse or cohabitant's authorization. Additional investigations may be conducted when the spouse or cohabitant is a foreign national.

    *A cohabitant is defined as someone with whom you live together as husband and wife and the relationship involves the mutual assumption of marital rights, duties, and obligations, which are usually manifested by married people, including, but not necessarily dependent on, sexual relations.

    there are three types of clearances: top secret, secret and confidential.


    Interesting ... (none / 0) (#90)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 01:17:35 AM EST
    another site I looked at suggested how much you see the person, if you're giving material support, and similar issues could play a role.

    People like Bannon and Gaffney ... (none / 0) (#44)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 05:27:49 PM EST
    would be banned from most internet forums for the things they say.

    Actually (none / 0) (#93)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 06:05:04 AM EST
    This is something Bannon actually said.

    A speech   http://tinyurl.com/hkoqyap

    This Is How Steve Bannon Sees The Entire World
    The soon-to-be White House chief strategist laid out a global vision in a rare 2014 talk, one where he said racism in the far right gets "washed out" and called Vladimir Putin a kleptocrat. BuzzFeed News publishes the complete transcript for the first time.


    He praised (none / 0) (#103)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:33:17 AM EST
    the racist far right. You are scary that you would normalize this kind of thing but then it appears that nothing fazes you.

    He also said this (none / 0) (#114)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 10:24:24 AM EST
    One is state-sponsored capitalism. And that's the capitalism you see in China and Russia. I believe it's what Holy Father [Pope Francis] has seen for most of his life in places like Argentina, where you have this kind of crony capitalism of people that are involved with these military powers-that-be in the government, and it forms a brutal form of capitalism that is really about creating wealth and creating value for a very small subset of people. And it doesn't spread the tremendous value creation throughout broader distribution patterns that were seen really in the 20th century.

    How do you define Far Left?


    He sounds (none / 0) (#115)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 10:31:42 AM EST
    like he's promoting crony capitalism. Hey, the joke is on you Jim. His entire economic staff is coming from Goldman Sachs the ones you whined about. We all know Republicans love crony capitalism and no one does it better than Trump.

    And this is why Hillary lost (none / 0) (#116)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 10:33:24 AM EST
    Bannon: One of the reasons that you can understand how they're being fueled is that they're not seeing the benefits of capitalism. I mean particularly -- and I think it's particularly more advanced in Europe than it is in the United States, but in the United States it's getting pretty advanced -- is that when you have this kind of crony capitalism, you have a different set of rules for the people that make the rules. It's this partnership of big government and corporatists. I think it starts to fuel, particularly as you start to see negative job creation. If you go back, in fact, and look at the United States' GDP, you look at a bunch of Europe. If you take out government spending, you know, we've had negative growth on a real basis for over a decade.

    And that all trickles down to the man in the street. If you look at people's lives, and particularly millennials, look at people under 30 -- people under 30, there's 50% really under employment of people in the United States, which is probably the most advanced economy in the West, and it gets worse in Europe.

    You mean ... (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Yman on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 10:40:46 AM EST
     ... that's the reason you and Bannon think she "lost"*.

    * 2 million more votes.

    That's funny.


    Some of it Sounds Like Elizabeth Warren (none / 0) (#120)
    by RickyJim on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 10:40:28 AM EST
    The bailouts were absolutely outrageous, and here's why: It bailed out a group of shareholders and executives who were specifically accountable. The shareholders were accountable for one simple reason: They allowed this to go wrong without changing management. And the management team of this. And we know this now from congressional investigations, we know it from independent investigations, this is not some secret conspiracy. This is kind of in plain sight.

    In fact, one of the committees in Congress said to the Justice Department 35 executives, I believe, that they should have criminal indictments against -- not one of those has ever been followed up on. Because even with the Democrats, right, in power, there's a sense between the law firms, and the accounting firms, and the investment banks, and their stooges on Capitol Hill, they looked the other way.

    When you're right, you're right... (none / 0) (#140)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 02:34:49 PM EST
    What are the odds Trump will work with Liz on this? Or will Wall St. Chuckie and Big Coal Mitchie put the kibosh on it quick regardless?

    No (none / 0) (#143)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 02:42:20 PM EST
    Trump is going to do none of that. It's all a con. Trump is a con and all the people that work with him are a con.

    Seriously? Trump is looking (none / 0) (#144)
    by caseyOR on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 02:43:41 PM EST
    to Goldman Sachs for people to work in his administration. Get real. He does not give a flying f@ck about Wall Street reform or protecting workers.

    And to boot (5.00 / 3) (#148)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 03:11:17 PM EST
    Bernie is licking Trump's butt. He was screeching at Hillary about $12 an hour wages but he's bowing and scraping before Trump for $10 minimum wage and now. He's basically going to go along with whatever Trump wants it seems. Apparently Goldman Sachs is okay if Trump wants to run their agenda but making speeches there is evil. He's a bitter old man that would sell out everybody and the base is livid at him. Don't count on him doing anything for the people suffering because it's all about HIM.

    Inclined to agree... (none / 0) (#146)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 02:54:59 PM EST
    I was putting the odds around 5 million to one;)

    As for coal, well coal mine owners are (none / 0) (#145)
    by caseyOR on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 02:46:10 PM EST
    ecstatic at Trump's election because they see his denial of climate change, as opposed to Obama's desire to mitigate climate change, as very good for the coal business.

    Little do them coal workers know... (none / 0) (#147)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 02:56:26 PM EST
    That coal is dead regardless of climate change deniers in power.

    When you actually (none / 0) (#162)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 07:04:23 PM EST
    Read stuff Bannon actually said,

    The picture changes.

    I never heard of Bannon prior to the election, and that is the first article I found that actually are his own words. He is NOT a establishment Republican,
    He seems , OMG, like The Bern, willing to tilt the playing field somewhat towards those left behind.

    And The Donald will push it, I believe.
    Wall street Chuckie will have to negotiate, or have the Democrats play for Wall Street, I don't think they want to do that, after this election.

    Big Coal Mitch, well, The Donald is all about trying to revive Big coal, as much as he can. Don't think they can re open any shuttered plants, but they can keep those still operating open by quashing the EPA regs.


    you (none / 0) (#168)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:07:56 PM EST
    Are an easy mark for a con man arent you? Goldman sachs is going to be running things

    Thanks for this, Trevor (none / 0) (#186)
    by NYShooter on Sat Nov 19, 2016 at 01:12:19 AM EST
    It explains a lot. It explains where we are economically, why we're where we are, and, how, if we're smart, get to where we ought to be.

    Actually, due to my experience, and, history, I pretty much understood it already. And, not to pick a fight, but, it, for sure, requires intelligent, free thinking people to fix it all.

    Of course, this is the discussion we should be having here, and, of course, it won't happen. Instead of a roomful of free thinkers we've got a roomful of stand up comics and finger pointers.

    Using a race driver as a metaphor, imagine a driver hoping to win the Daytona 500. He fails
    to win, so what does he do? A smart driver would examine his race plan and fix any shortcomings.
    Next, he's do the same with his auto. Finally, he'd examine his own preparedness, and make any improvements necessary to be better prepared next time.

    Of course, a stupid driver would blame the audience for not clapping loud enough.

    Keep up the good work, kid.


    Another Trump (none / 0) (#57)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 06:27:23 PM EST
    transition person goes down. This one in justice. Three have left in the last two days. Cohen even wrote a piece for the Washington Post stating that no one should go to work for Donald.

    Oh, man (none / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 16, 2016 at 08:20:00 PM EST
    first thing coming up from these radicals is a FADA bill that denies gay people admittance to a hospital, women access to birth control and all kinds of stuff. Iran here we come.

    In the coming days, be sure to get verifiable news (none / 0) (#108)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 09:58:49 AM EST
    Facebook may not be it:

    Honestly, people are definitely dumber. They just keep passing stuff around. Nobody fact-checks anything anymore -- I mean, that's how Trump got elected. He just said whatever he wanted, and people believed everything, and when the things he said turned out not to be true, people didn't care because they'd already accepted it. It's real scary. I've never seen anything like it.

    Trump and his (none / 0) (#125)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 11:02:24 AM EST
    cronies are nothing but monied elites. Like I said he's hiring from Goldman Sachs. The person who got fooled is you, Jim. Yes, the joke is on you.

    More Proof for My Theory (none / 0) (#130)
    by RickyJim on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 12:01:06 PM EST
    that HRC lost because she failed to explain her economic message well and point out that Trump only had nonsense and contradictions to offer.  This article is about Nelsonville Ohio that went big for Obama twice but flipped to Trump this time.
    Clinton did roll out a plan to revitalize parts of Appalachia hurt by the loss of coal jobs, built on infrastructure spending, the reclamation of old mining sites and new tax credits. Like most Clinton plans, it was steeped in policy and detail. The question was whether anyone actually read or heard it. Taylor Sappington, a 25-year-old progressive who ran with Mash for council, recalled Clinton speaking about the plan when she made a campaign stop at a brewery down the road in Athens. Beyond that, he didn't hear much about it.

    So (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by FlJoe on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 12:32:24 PM EST
    who's to blame, Hillary who rolled out a plan or the media who refused to cover it.

    From my direct observation(mostly of CNN) and all of the analysis I have read, the media's coverage of actual policy was miniscule.

    How many campaign stops can she make "just down the road" to explain plans "steeped in policy and detail" while the media ignores it at best or mocks it as wonky and boring at worst.


    Maybe she (none / 0) (#132)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 12:09:04 PM EST
    should have run ads with it but the media spent all of 30 minutes talking issues this campaign season. and some of that could be frustration with Obama.

    I think you need to read that article again (none / 0) (#136)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 01:20:58 PM EST
    you're in denial

    Trump's focus on jobs and winning let him overlook everything about Trump that Democrats and the media assumed would doom his run. The "Access Hollywood" tape? Didn't bother Mash ― what annoyed him was the media's replaying it. Trump's smear of Mexican immigrants or his plan to ban all Muslims from entering the country? Blown out of proportion. He resented the charge that voting for Trump made him racist.  

    I have black friends is not a pass for support of a racist.  

    The town is 94% white, but immigration is a concern for him? Get real.

    Read the article, they didn't vote for the rich white guy who wasn't like them, but voted for the rich white guy who "came out with same beliefs I did."  


    C'mon, They Voted for Obama Twice!! (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by RickyJim on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 02:37:09 PM EST
    I will repeat again.  Clinton lost because attacking Trump's character was not a winner.  She could have relied on her staff to find ways to simplify the economics so as to hit Trump on the issues.  Blaming the media is ridiculous.  The people who voted for Trump heard what they liked from Trump directly and Clinton could have been just as effective a speaker on the trail.  She could have replied, "Nincompoop Donald" to his "Crooked Hillary" and explained point by point why he doesn't understand how the economy works.

    Clinton did hit Trump on the issues (5.00 / 3) (#149)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 03:56:17 PM EST
    but that wouldn't have mattered.  Clinton's problem was that she talked about issues that impacted "others" from the perspective of a powerful white woman and folks did not want to deal w/the issues she raised.  People didn't like be told that things in the country need to change.  I'll repost something I posted a few days ago:

    it is disregard for the "other" and only thinking of self by choosing the candidate that they believe aligns w/keeping their self secure.  It happened in many forms last night: purity, e.g. not a "decent" candidate, racists, misogynists, y'all are all in the same boat.

    Your callous disregard for the other is what binds you all.

    We can't know why these people voted for Obama and then did a 180 and vote for someone who is the exact opposite.  I doubt many would be honest if you asked.  They may not even know it themselves.  I'm certainly not going to try to explain it.  Nonetheless, I'm not interested in sugarcoating this election.  If we are going to move forward as a nation together, honest introspection is needed.  To continue to push nonsense about economic anxiety when none of Trump's speeches ever laid out any plans insults the intelligence.  How do you assuage worry and anxiety with electing a no-plan-having, demonstrably loose cannon?

    These people chose their own self interest over that of those that don't look like them plain and simple.  The only way you do that is if you think those that don't look or sound like you are not American like you.  I suspect that has always been their motivation - naked self-interest. It took this election to make it obvious to anyone willing to be honest.  Nationalism alright, just not the inclusive of everybody kind.

    I would submit her losses in those states recently impacted by race-related issues, e.g. police abuse, civil and voting rights infringement, anti-immigrant fervor, actually proves she was right.


    You are right. (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 04:06:37 PM EST
    The statistics back you up. The people that voted for Trump make 50K to 100K a year. Trump won by what is called white lash and until people start owning up to that and quit pretending it was economics we're not going to get anywhere.

    We all have our biases (none / 0) (#151)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 04:16:30 PM EST
    recognizing it and working to counteract them is what we as human beings are supposed to do.  Especially in a multicultural world such as ours.

    Hillary was on to something with stronger together as was Obama with his no red states, blue states.  That stuff resonates with people.  A simple slogan for independents, liberals, democrats and like minded conservatives - WE.  Now as this tide against the ideal of WE is when IMO, it makes the most sense to keep pushing that idea.

    But you are right, WE need to be honest with ourselves, black, white, brown, all nationalities.


    When the Clinton campaign put forth ... (none / 0) (#154)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 05:32:32 PM EST
    ... detailed proposals and plans for public consideration, and further makes them available  in remarkably easy-to-reach fashion, how is it NOT the fault of those voters for willfully contributing to their own civic illiteracy, through their own conscious failure of initiative?

    A responsible voter would have made the effort to educate him- or herself regarding Hillary Clinton's actual proposed policies, particularly when simultaneously confronted with the painfully obvious and withering ignorance of her opponent, so that he or she could then make a thoughtful decision, rather than an emotional one.

    I mean, what was Mrs. Clinton supposed to do here -- whip out position papers at gatherings and rallies, and then read them aloud to the audience as she would a bedtime story to a child? As it was, the cable news networks frequently cut away from her campaign speeches to have their own pundits talk amongst themselves, which was all the more reason to make a personal effort to become better informed on one's own.

    Very little if any good ever comes from those moments when people deliberately choose provocative demagogy over enlightened discourse, especially when they do so with their eyes wide open. As the Rev. Martin Luther King once observed, "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

    Trump's triumph will likely not prove an exception to that rule.


    The Way I View It (none / 0) (#166)
    by RickyJim on Thu Nov 17, 2016 at 07:46:20 PM EST
    The fact is that Clinton was unable to simplify or maybe I should say dumb down her economic message to her audience so she took the easy way out and attacked Trump personally.  You see the same sort of thing when the lawyer with the better case loses because she can't explain the evidence down to the jury's level so the opposing lawyer with an easier to understand message wins.

    But again, that absolves us ... (none / 0) (#174)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 18, 2016 at 04:59:42 AM EST
    ... of our personal obligation and responsibility as citizens of this republic to make an intelligent and informed decision when casting our ballots, and instead unfairly places the burden of educating the electorate entirely upon the candidates themselves.

    There is an old Druid proverb, "Information is abundant; wisdom is scarce." Mrs. Clinton put forth detailed proposals regarding her plan of governance, and further discussed them publicly on numerous occasions. If we chose to not listen to her and not seek out that information, that's on us and not her. To do otherwise would be like blaming your child's teacher when that child for whatever reason decides to watch cartoons, rather than do his or her homework assignments.

    The late Irish playwright George Bernard Shaw once observed that democracy is the means which ensures that we'll be governed no better than we deserve. In other words, we're not entitled to good government, nor should we expect it after the damage we inflicted upon ourselves last week without much prompting. Rather, democracy is a participatory sport, not a vicarious form of public entertainment, and effective governance requires an informed and engaged electorate.



    Actually, (none / 0) (#175)
    by Nemi on Fri Nov 18, 2016 at 07:43:40 AM EST
    to me it seems to have been quite the winning strategy not having been able to explain much -- if anything -- and to relentlessly and very personally attack, degrade, vilify and humiliate your opponent ...

    Jim, move on (none / 0) (#173)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Nov 18, 2016 at 02:27:23 AM EST
    you are blogclogging and veering off topic.