Wednesday Open Thread

Today is packing day. Four movers, 8 hours.

Tomorrow is moving day -- another four movers for 8 hours. I'm nowhere near ready, even though I've been doing little else for almost a month. And I'm only moving less than a mile away from where I am now.

Here's an open thread, all topics welcome. I

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    Amazin', Amazin', Amazin', (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 10:08:14 AM EST
    Amazin' Mets now up 6 games in the NL East after a miracle comeback win last night, 8-7 over the Nats.  

    Down 7-1 with one on two out in the 7th, the Mets proceed to tie the game by working 6 walks and a huge 3 run double by Yoenis "Marlboro Red" Cespedes.  Journeyman Kirk Nieuwenhuis puts us ahead for good with a pinch hit homer in the 8th.  Familia locks it up for his 38th save.

    Magic number down to 19.

    Make that Magic Number 17... (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 09:54:39 AM EST
    as the Miracle Mets complete the sweep of the Nats...8th inning rally sparked by Kelly Johnson's pinch hit solo homer off Strasberg to tie it, followed soon after by a two run bomb by "Marlboro Red" Cespedes to put us ahead for good.  deGrom outduels Strasburg for the win, Familia mows 'em down 1-2-3 in the 9th for the save.

    Mets fans are downright giddy!  


    Are you (none / 0) (#110)
    by CoralGables on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 10:02:28 AM EST
    Not quite... (none / 0) (#117)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 10:52:11 AM EST
    hope to be come November!

    Either way I'm sure as hell enjoying the ride, long time coming.


    How many innings left (none / 0) (#3)
    by CoralGables on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 10:24:45 AM EST
    for Mr. Harvey?

    LOL... (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 10:46:06 AM EST
    Ask Scott Boras;)

    Were I Sandy Alderson/Terry Collins, if the arm feels good and strong you pitch.  If it don't, ya don't.  Innings and pitch limits are not a proven tactic to avoid elbow injuries...baby a pitcher, don't baby a pitcher, the elbows seem to go either way....nobody knows what's the best thing to do.



    My Cubbies will be battling it out with (none / 0) (#199)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:21:01 PM EST
    the Pirates head to head  for the wild card next week and the week after...theirs to win or lose! If I were a betting lady I know which way I would bet...but hope springs eternal!

    NYT (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 10:31:19 AM EST
    fires Carolyn Ryan for all her inaccurate stories about Hillary link

    Not Fired... (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 11:13:24 AM EST
    Media Matters says that while Ryan is being removed from the Washington Bureau Chief job, she's being allowed to remain as a "political editor." This may be a fair compromise, as while the fictional articles about Hillary Clinton did happen on Ryan's watch, she herself was not the author of those articles. While the personnel shift may indeed get the New York Times political reporting back on track, the repetitional damage may have already been done; after all, the self described "newspaper of record" has spent the summer inventing fictional laws and imagined investigations which simply never existed.

    And the actual author ?


    Okay (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 11:35:13 AM EST
    Well, at least she's being watched but not fired from the NYT but definitely losing her current position.

    Although today she was Margaret Sullivan's (none / 0) (#152)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 02:58:04 PM EST
    go-to responder re readers' complaints The Times was not fairly covering Bernie.

    Dean's comment about (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by lentinel on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 05:33:37 PM EST
    Sanders, (quoted yesterday by Anne)

    People like Bernie are always attractive, as I was. They speak truth to power. The problem with candidates like that -- and like me -- is that as you get closer to election time, you're more careful about how your vote's going to be used. You're going to tend to want to see somebody who you think looks presidential as the nominee of your party. That's one of the things that sank me. I knew that as an insurrectionist, I wasn't going to get elected by my party to be the nominee. I just had a lot of trouble turning a corner from being an insurrectionist to being somebody who people could see as president.

    is rather self-serving in my opinion.

    In my opinion, Dean screwed up his own campaign.
    That line about what "looks presidential" is hooey. In my opinion.

    I remember one of the things that drew me to Dean was the way he supported his wife. She was, as I recall, a physician. She was not going to be part of the campaign - and if Dean were to be elected, she would not be dwelling in the White House - but would continue to serve her patients. Dean supported this. I thought, wow. A "first lady" that was a dedicated physician - breaking the mold of a flotus whose function is to offer kitchen wisdom and read to children. (Not that there's anything wrong with reading to children...)
    Then, as things start to get dicey, there is an interview - with Barbara Walters as I recall, and who is sitting there dutifully, albeit with figurative teeth clenched, is Mrs.Dr. Dean.
    Oh boy. I thought to myself... here we go.

    Then there was the scream.
    I saw it live.
    I knew the moment that he did it that he was finished. The gent that the press had been describing as an angry man lets out a most bizarre sounding vocal utterance.
    Goodbye Mr. Dean.

    Sanders, to date at least, is sticking to being who he is. He does speak in slogans now and again.
    That is tiresome to me. But what he is saying is unvarnished leftist talk - and I find it refreshing.

    Even here, we are not prone to discuss anything Sanders is saying. That is because, I believe, we too have our ideas about who is "electable".

    When it comes to "electability", none of those who have been given that mantle - on either side of the aisle - is anyone that I could consider voting for.

    Hillary Clinton is sounding like McCain's "Bomb-Bomb-Iran" ditty. Distancing herself from Obama by moving to the right. Just what we need.

    Jeb? Trump? The rest of those nitwits?

    The only one who sounds sane to me is Sanders.

    We need Dean to support him, not come out and say that he's and insurgent with a short-term appeal who doesn't seem "presidential" - whatever the fk that is.

    A guy in a wheelchair. That was presidential.
    On the other side of the spectrum, a half-wit actor - that was presidential.
    A semi-reformed junkie alcoholic with an IQ in the single digits and a silver spoon up his arse was presidential. Twice!

    Don't tell me what's "presidential", Señor Dean.

    2 sentence horror stories (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 08:16:25 PM EST
    maybe it's just my attention span but I love these-

    1. I woke up to hear knocking on glass. At first, I thought it was the window until I heard it come from the mirror again.

    2. I always thought my cat had a staring problem - she always seemed fixated on my face. Until one day, when I realized that she was always looking just behind me.

    3. There's nothing like the laughter of a baby. Unless it's 1 a.m. and you're home alone.

    4. I can't move, breathe, speak or hear and it's so dark all the time. If I knew it would be this lonely. I would have been cremated instead.

    5. There was a picture in my phone of me sleeping. I live alone.


    The Haunting (the original)... (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 08:31:05 PM EST
    Julie Harris awakens, holding something's hand.

    In the darkened room, she kept telling (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 08:50:12 PM EST
    her roomate to stop squeezing her hand, then turned on the light and saw her roomate asleep on the other side of the room.

    Ha (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 08:58:34 PM EST
    they are marketing tha crap out of this new Shamalan movie The Visit.  
    I wish them luck with that.
    I swore I would new spend money on another Shamalan movie after The Village and that I would never waste another 2 hours of my life after Lady In The Water.

    The Visit looks really stupid.


    They Are Also Marketing... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 09:15:16 AM EST
    ...the cr@p out of The Martian and I cannot wait to see it.  

    I love space movies, especially ones involving interplanetary travel that are based on facts, as in where we are technologically.


    Key and Peele's last show tonite. (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by desertswine on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 09:58:27 PM EST
    Too bad, funniest guys on tv for my money.

    We may need more popcorn (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 03:02:28 PM EST
    oathkeepers vow to stop US Marshals from arresting Kim Davis-

    Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes announced yesterday that he had reached out to Davis' lawyers at Liberty Counsel to offer the protection of his group, which he says is already forming a presence in Rowan County, Kentucky, where Davis was recently released from jail after prohibiting her office from issuing marriage licenses. Rhodes said in a statement that his position has nothing to do with gay marriage, but rather his conviction that Davis had been illegally detained by the federal judge who held her in contempt for violating multiple court orders.

    In a phone call with Jackson County, Kentucky, Sheriff Denny Peyman and other local Oath Keepers activists, Rhodes said that he was on his way to Kentucky to help with the Davis operation. Although the group had originally intended to picket outside the home of the judge who held Davis in contempt, he said, they had changed their plan when she was released on Tuesday.

    Rhodes said that the Rowan County sheriff should have blocked U.S. Marshals from detaining Davis, but since neither the sheriff nor the state's governor will do their "job" and "intercede" on behalf of Davis, the Oath Keepers will have to do it instead. "As far as we're concerned, this is not over," he said, "and this judge needs to be put on notice that his behavior is not going to be accepted and we'll be there to stop it and intercede ourselves if we have to. If the sheriff, who should be interceding, is not going to do his job and the governor is not going to do the governor's job of interceding, then we'll do it."

    Trouble in paradise (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 03:05:48 PM EST
    "I'm going to say it," Beck declared, "I don't care what Sarah Palin says any more. Sarah Palin has become a clown. I'm embarrassed that I was once for Sarah Palin. Honestly, I'm embarrassed."

    "I don't know who she is any more, I don't know what she stands for," Beck continued. "I saw a clip of her talking to Donald Trump. What the hell is that? I don't even know who she is any more ... Don't care. I don't care."

    LOL! (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 03:36:39 PM EST
    Pot, meet Kettle. This is wingbat cannibalism at its finest.

    True enough (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 03:54:04 PM EST
    the idea of Beck calling someone else a clown,.....
    I honestly don't know how to finish that.

    That said.  Palins performance at that freak show for the Iran deal was truly frightening.  Did you see it?  If not you really really should.  She was a screeching terror.  It was surreal.

    I was particularly struck by the multiple gay dog whistles about Obama.  Sprinkling sparkly fairy dust while looking through his tiny pink kaleidoscope.  Wtf.


    Full Palin (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 04:00:40 PM EST
    I admit it, Cap'n. (none / 0) (#193)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 06:53:18 PM EST
    I'm just a homo-lovin', Kenyan socialist-coddlin', feminazifyin' Commie librul at heart. The fact that I have illegal Spanish-speaking Mexican immigrants as in-laws obviously gives me away, 'cause they can't speak proper Murikin like Sarah Palin and Donald Trump.

    I'm guilty as charged, and I'm proud of it.


    Sauce for the goose (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 06:54:58 PM EST
    The motion to dismiss was filed Tuesday by Gov. Jay Nixon and state Attorney General Chris Koster, claiming the suit doesn't show sufficient proof the plaintiffs were harmed, the Kansas City Star reports. They also claim they are legally protected from being named in such suits because they are elected officials.

    The lawsuit is on behalf of a Satanic Temple member and Missouri resident using the pseudonym "Mary."

    It states that Mary, who is pregnant, went in May to Planned Parenthood with the intention of getting an abortion. She was told she had to wait 72 hours, at which point she presented a waiver from the Satanic Temple saying the waiting period violated her religious beliefs. She was still denied, prompting the lawsuit, according to Patheos.

    "While the State's Motion to Dismiss may well just be a standard opening maneuver, the laughable nature of their argument can't help but signify a certain degree of desperation," said Lucien Greaves, Satanic Temple co-founder, in an email to the Raw Story. "I'm pleased to see that our case is strong enough that this Motion to Dismiss was the best Missouri could do. I think this bodes very well for our prospects of a momentous victory in defense of reproductive rights."

    Thank you! (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Towanda on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 07:41:42 PM EST
    This made my day.

    In (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by FlJoe on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 04:18:41 PM EST
    a sane world we could call this the collapse of the modern conservative movement and the Republicans with them. In a sane world we would all be high-fiving and back slapping each other in giddy celebrations.

    In this world all bets are off, yes the crazies are fighting each other but in this mad political arena it probably only means the dominant crazy gets stronger and the loser gets crazier.

    It's still fun to watch though, I loved the way Cruz got the bums rush by Huckabee's goons during his Kim-a-palooza.


    It seems (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 04:27:39 PM EST
    every Republican is trying disavow some other Republican these days.

    Not (none / 0) (#167)
    by FlJoe on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 04:35:52 PM EST
    Trump and Cruz, I sense a budding bromance here.

    VP (none / 0) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 04:39:10 PM EST
    you watch

    That's (none / 0) (#170)
    by FlJoe on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 04:48:56 PM EST
    what I'm thinking, I am really expecting Cruz to attack Carson soon, maybe try to nail him in the next debate.

    I had a disturbing conversation (none / 0) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:27:07 PM EST
    tiday with a person I had always seen as a pretty grounded progressive.  Talk turned to the race and I was holding forth about how Donald is destroying the Republican Party.   Blah blah.
    This person says, "some of the things he is saying make a lot of sense"

    Wait, what?!  What has he said that makes sense?

    Immigration.  Then went on to explain how she's eating all the immigration talk with a soup spoon.  Believes there will be a wall.  Believes he will expel 11 million people......

    Completely impervious to logic or reason.

    It was depressing.

    You think you know someone.


    We all know (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 04:59:16 PM EST
    that the Republican party is all fked up and aflutter over the rise in the polls by outsider Trump.

    Now, it's the "Democratic party officials" who are getting edgy about the increasingly shaky hold on the nomination by Secretary Clinton.

    They are really really fked up with the rise of Sanders.

    Instead of embracing someone who is, apparently, spreading a well needed message of hope to the beleaguered middle class, and the very poor, they are in quasi-panic mode.

    So - who are they looking to?
    And gargoyle Biden.

    What a recipe for disaster.
    Kerry obviously had his face lifted in hopes of such an eventuality. People here say he will not run... but he says,  "nobody ever says never." What horsesh-t!

    If the people who run the Democratic party think the way to go is to turn to hacks who have had their chances and lost to people they should never have lost to, it only reveals that the people running their show are mirror images of the people running the show on the Republican side.

    It is obvious to me that the rise of Trump, and the rise of Sanders, signals that the last thing people want is someone risen from the grave, or people who represent the ethos of those who have been properly entombed.

    I want a progressive to win the Democratic nomination. Right now, Sanders is that person.

    If the people in the Democratic party set out to derail him, they will take the party down to defeat to whatever new face the Republicans can find.

    In my opinion.

    This whole thing is a ridiculous joke (none / 0) (#176)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:19:53 PM EST
    and so are the people, whoever they are, who are pushing it.

    I was just reading about this.  It seriously laugh out out.

    Kerry? Gore? For f@cks sake.  Dukakis is still alive we might as well round ALL the worst democratic candidates in history while we are at it.

    It's ludicrous.


    That's (none / 0) (#182)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:41:52 PM EST
    what I think. When an article drags Kerry and Gore into consideration as candidates you know it is coming from somewhere very strange.

    Dukakis (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:45:10 PM EST
    should be very offended he was left out

    RIP the great and wonderous Betty White (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:37:59 PM EST
    very very sad

    Sorry (none / 0) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:44:06 PM EST
    never believe FaceBook.

    It's a very bad joke about "Curl up and dye"



    funny and a little weird (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:48:15 PM EST
    Not only is it a bad joke, ... (none / 0) (#186)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:53:22 PM EST
    ... it's one that was apparently recycled from last year. 93 years young, Betty White recently signed on as a recurring guest star for the Fox TV series "Bones," and just started filming her first episode this week.

    Everything old is new again (none / 0) (#187)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:56:50 PM EST
    as Betty knows better than anyone.  

    I just caught Lake Placid, a film from a few years ago.  Betty is so great.  Not a great movie but Betty is great.


    She was the best part ... (none / 0) (#191)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 06:36:08 PM EST
    ... of that mediocre film. Had her foul-mouthed character not been there, "Lake Placid" would've been beyond silly to the point of unwatchable.

    Actually (none / 0) (#188)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:57:32 PM EST
    the new show may have play a role in the resurrection

    Baltimore Is Not Boston (3.50 / 2) (#206)
    by JanaM on Fri Sep 11, 2015 at 04:24:45 PM EST
    they kept the Tsarnaev trial in Boston.
    I can't imagine anyone having a better case to move than that.

    I think that's a false equivalency.  In Baltimore you have a demonstrated history of violence against those who might not side with the Freddie Gray narrative.  That is a real threat to empaneling a jury that will be able to stand up to community pressure and threats and vote to acquit if that's how they see it.

    I think the defense has an appellate issue from the get go. I also think the civil suit settlement adds fodder to the community - read potential jury pool - mentality that the police must be guilty of something before anything has been proven either in the way of responsibility or damages.  

    Hillary's email mess (1.00 / 1) (#1)
    by ragebot on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 08:28:16 AM EST
    is getting harder to keep up with.

    A new FOI suit for all documents relating to how Kendal got an OK to store sensitive material has been filed by a lawyer who claims to have clearance to store such material and knows how the process works.  The suit was brought by writer David Brown and claims " Allowing a private lawyer to maintain potentially classified records is virtually unprecedented".

    Reuters is reporting the State Department has shifted fifty employees to deal with the multiple FOI request related to Hillary's email.

    The senate seems willing to give immunity to Bryan in exchange for testimony.

    In an ABC interview Hillary said she was sorry, but not everyone is buying it.

    Currently Hillary is giving a speech supporting the deal with Iran at the same time Khamenei is tweeting Israel will not exist in 25 years.

    I am still predicting Hillary will not get the nomination.

    Yes, this is indeed a potential virtual problem (5.00 / 7) (#12)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 12:01:05 PM EST
    I am potentially virtually unprecedentedly outraged.

    Agreed. (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 01:21:07 PM EST
    In fact, I'm dreaming about blowing an imaginary gasket and fuse, even as we virtually speak.

    Yeah, it virtually (none / 0) (#71)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 08:10:56 PM EST
    Hurts me too....

    Duane and Jerry with the Troll-a-wile blues band.


    That's perfect quittin' time music. (none / 0) (#77)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 10:26:20 PM EST
    Mahalo. Here's some Gabby Pahinui back at you. The sun's over the yardarm in Hilo, and it's time for margaritas.



    Donald, Gabby Pahinui's music (none / 0) (#86)
    by fishcamp on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 06:18:39 AM EST
    is excellent.  Thanks for putting that song up.  I used some of his music in my surf film Island Magic, which stars our friend Gerry Lopez.

    Mahalo Nui Loa


    Please speak American! (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 10:55:59 AM EST
    Good to see (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 02:45:29 PM EST
    immunity may be granted the guy who set up Hillary's email.   That would benefit Hillary, so the Republicans may not go forward with it--that way they have the image of someone taking the Fifth--instead of testifying in a way that helps Hillary.

    You did spend a lot of time assembling these links.  It seems Republicans are quite eager to declare Hillary finished.  I don't see Democrats believing that.  Self interest to avoid a formidable candidate.....


    Human Civilization is Going to Exist in 25 Years? (none / 0) (#6)
    by RickyJim on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 11:13:01 AM EST
    I think the Ayatollah doesn't know how bad the situation is.  As soon as it becomes technologically feasible (and posted on the Internet), I give civilization at most a year after it is revealed how to make weapons of mass destruction in your garage.

    Nah... (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 12:24:51 PM EST
    drought, heat, flood, and famine will put a whoopin' on civilization long before some knuckleheads in their garage ever could.

    The Second Coming (none / 0) (#37)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 02:52:01 PM EST
    means not having to worry about anything.....

    Conservative evangelicals can just quit their jobs, not worry about Climate Change and wait for God to smite everyone for same s*x marriage.


    I think (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 03:20:11 PM EST
    Howdy Doody Gowdy got caught in this one. He couldn't keep insisting something is there without giving the guy immunity. However, I don't think he's going to get anything.

    Ga6thDem (none / 0) (#55)
    by ragebot on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 04:52:35 PM EST
    If you bothered to read the blurb at the link I posted you would have noticed it was Senators Chuck Grassley and Ron Johnson, the chairmen of two key committees investigating the situation who floated the offer of immunity.

    Rep. Gowdy is a member of the House and not mentioned in the article.

    But I would not want to confuse you with facts.


    It's (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 05:46:20 PM EST
    still the silly Benghazi nonsense for one and secondly I believe that Gowdy is the one who is actually going to have to grant him immunity. Apparently Grassley and Johnson are going to try to help him get immunity.

    You apparently don't realize it's still the same silly committee. Since I'm not on the wingnut welfare circuit I know the facts.


    Ga6thDem Let me help you get up to speed (none / 0) (#79)
    by ragebot on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 11:02:21 PM EST
    As this link points out Gowdy's position is that DOJ should make the call on immunity for Bryan.  Grassley, Johnson, and possibly Chaffetz are all chairmen of Senate committee's who seem intent on opening investigations calling Bryan to testify and there may be additional House investigations in addition to the one Gowdy is leading from this link.

    Any, all, or none of these committees (or the DOJ) could grant immunity to Bryan.  But as the links state a grant of immunity seems to depend on a meeting with a proffer from Bryan and his lawyers, something that seems unlikely as of now.  The problem for Bryan is he will have to take the fifth multiple times on national TV.  The problem for Hillary is more PR hits every time he does this, or possibly worse if he testifies.

    I would not be shocked if Huma and Cheryl take the fifth as well.

    Hope this helps you get up to speed.


    Mills (none / 0) (#84)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 06:12:02 AM EST
    Already testified
    SEPT. 3, 2015

    Cheryl D. Mills, a longtime aide to Hillary Rodham Clinton, after she testified privately on Capitol Hill on Thursday.

    WASHINGTON -- Cheryl D. Mills, a longtime lawyer and adviser to Hillary Rodham Clinton, testified for eight hours before a congressional committee on Thursday about Mrs. Clinton's personal email account and the 2012 attacks in Benghazi, Libya.


    As far as immunity for Pagliano, what exactly could Congressional Committees charge him with? It would be immunity from the FBI, through the Justice Department that I would think is most important.


    Hillary has testified in the past (none / 0) (#89)
    by ragebot on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:05:29 AM EST
    before Congress but that has not precluded her from having to testify again.  I am betting Hillary will have to testify multiple times before this is over.

    You are betting that the GOP is not going (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:40:38 AM EST
    to let this drop until Clinton leaves public life forever. Yes, I agree, they won't.  They will be hauling her to Congress as many times as possible. they don't even care that she kicks their a** every time, as long as they get their own publicity out of it.

    All of that has NOTHING to do with the merits of any case against her.


    Who cares how you bet (none / 0) (#92)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:23:40 AM EST
    You don't know and have no basis for an educated guess....

    Any effort to address the merits?  Oh no, we can't have that.


    Of (none / 0) (#95)
    by FlJoe on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:42:46 AM EST
    course the inquisition shall continue. I bet a few of these would be Torquemadas would be quite happy to strap Hillary to the old water board.

    She (none / 0) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:52:30 AM EST
    has shown up for the Howdy Dowdy Gowdy dog and pony show before. No, I believe in October will be the last time. Howdy Dowdy wanted her to testify in private and she said no. Howdy Dowdy should release all the transcripts of people like Cheryl Mills and quit lying to people like you and spinning conspiracy theories with his cut and paste but I don't expect him to. The wingnut welfare circuit thrives on conspiracy theories.

    I Love (none / 0) (#88)
    by FlJoe on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 07:50:27 AM EST
    the headline in your second link,
    More GOP chairmen itching to investigate Clinton
    Perhaps they need to invest in some Lindane Shampoo

    Yes, I understand that for you (none / 0) (#91)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:22:35 AM EST
    it is all about the PR hits....and not about the merits.....but that is nothing new.

    Eventually you guys will have to come up with more than accusations and smoke and mirrors....


    As long as the smoke and mirrors are (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 09:29:27 AM EST
    clouding people's perceptions, why would they have to come up with actual substance?  I mean, this is how these people roll, and no amount of contradicting the misinformation and lies with the truth is ever enough.

    Case in point: the number of people who still believe Obama is a Kenyan Muslim.  Who think Saddam was behind 9/11.  

    No, as long as it works, they'll keep doing it.


    And I would not be shocked if ... (none / 0) (#132)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 12:51:26 PM EST
    ... the actual facts prove that you obviously don't know your a$$ from your elbow. Why, maybe they could take a page from Chris Christie's playbook, and hold a two-hour press conference to clear the air. By the way, how's all that honesty continuing to work out for him?

    And to top it all off, (none / 0) (#10)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 11:40:35 AM EST
    the Hillary Clinton email controversy has now made it to Wikipedia for a life of its own.

    Excellent it can join this (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 11:53:33 AM EST

    To provide sustenance for political Lampreys for decades


    I Don't See... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 12:15:01 PM EST
    ...Ambassador Stevens on the list.

    Funny... (none / 0) (#15)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 12:12:08 PM EST
    ...in that your link pretty much says what democrats have been saying, there is nothing but republican conspiracy blather over nothing.

    But thanks for the link showing just what kind of hackery the republican party is pulling.


    Good for State for allocating more (none / 0) (#17)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 12:17:54 PM EST
    personnel to the FOIA requests - or are you disappointed that things may actually move at a faster pace now?

    Immunity for Pagliano - this may work out well for him, but I don't think it's going to be nearly as rewarding for the Clinton-hunters.

    The "not everyone's buying it" thing?  That's why we've been saying that it pretty much doesn't matter what she says or how many media opportunities she provides: there's a faction that is never going to let go of anything with the name Clinton attached to it and will not believe anything that comes out of her mouth.  Ever.  If she announced that the sun rises in the east, someone in the Congress would want an investigation into how she obtained that information, and the media would want to interrogate her about why she's never said that before.

    Answer this: do you think Khameini would be tweeting anything other than "Israel will not exist in 25 years?"  Deal or no deal, Clinton or no Clinton, I don't think that's a goal he or his successors are going to abandon.

    I don't know if you're right about the nomination, but I tend to think the media would much prefer a Clinton/Trump contest than the snooze-fest that a Biden/Bush contest would be.  

    But we'll see, won't we?


    The Quote (none / 0) (#20)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 12:27:59 PM EST
    All I could think is that ragebot must not read much because the things our leaders and wanna be leaders, aka candidates, are saying about Iran, are about as stupid.

    But the one, the very best quote about Iran from the guy who the republicans wanted as their president:

    Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran

    I doubt many here or in Iran took him seriously, but by god when one of their idiots say something just as dumb, it should be taken as gospel and used to prove some silly political point, that conveniently enough, ragebot left out.

    Someone in my office explained (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 03:07:45 PM EST
    to me that the problem is that no one's afraid of us anymore; I've been told that our enemies laugh at Obama.

    So, the country - the US - that shamelessly used a terror attack to scare its people into going along with an unnecessary war that didn't really solve anything has, because of the failure of leadership, allowed its people to force them get out of the war business, and now no one believes we have the will to carry out our threats.  

    Or something.  It didn't make sense to me.


    I've heard this too (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 03:32:52 PM EST
    it seems so strange to me that people would want the world to be afraid of us.  When I traveled through Europe in the early 70s Americans were loved and welcomed everywhere.   We were a role model for the world.  They did not fear us the respected us.

    That seems like a better way to go.  But that's just me.

    Fwiw Obama is more respected out in the world than any president since Kennedy.


    I should say American citizens (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 03:36:56 PM EST
    specifically hippies.  The government was not so respected but we were.  Not so much anymore.

    We have done (none / 0) (#50)
    by FlJoe on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 04:14:03 PM EST
    our share of bullying since shortly after the civil war. Much of it covert, from the start of the 20th century we have played the "speak softly and carry a big stick" hero to the world, probably true in Europe during and after WW2, with very mixed results elewhere.

    Even during the cold we kept up the pretense, we could at least pretend we were saving the world from the dirty commies, while we got away with murder.

    Exit cold war, enter neo-cons, who have changed the paradigm to "speak harshly and wave your stick around at any perceived foe" Thanks to Bush's folly the world has seen that maybe our stick isn't really that big.


    It's an abusive, violent (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 05:14:11 PM EST
    garden variety authoritarian mentality that can't conceive of thriving without striking fear into people..

    ... for it to still be real to someone who's clearly residing in a parallel universe. Just tell that person to please give you a call when their shuttle finally lands back on Planet Earth.

    But if he or she so happens to be your office superior, then simply smile at them with quiet but obvious bemusement, as though they've been talking to you the whole time with a small piece of spinach visibly stuck between two of their front teeth.

    No matter how politically cuckoo they are, they'll still be left to wonder what you're actually thinking about them. Perhaps then, they will be more reticent about sharing their specious political opinions with you.



    Not only doesn't it make sense (none / 0) (#63)
    by christinep on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 06:16:00 PM EST
    but also I question whether and where that sentiment is heard.  The idea that the US must instill fear throughout the world to be taken seriously sounds ... well it sounds a bit Bushian and completely like Cheney.  In my occasional travels abroad, I have not heard that comment ... even when I openly asked about views of the US (med. countries, etc.) OTOH I did hear quite negative statements in London and Scandanavian countries during Mr. Bush's presidency.

    The "we are laughed at" routine is, imo, a figment of a partisan's imagination.  It shows up on both sides. Sometimes, I think that the need for fierceness by the right almost sounds like an abused child syndrome.


    Sounds Like a Conversation... (none / 0) (#105)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 09:31:28 AM EST
    ...from the Sopranos, or the current series I am watching, Narcos.  'They must fear us to respect us', which generally means it's time to start killing.

    Bryan's possible immunity (none / 0) (#58)
    by ragebot on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 05:09:42 PM EST
    is contingent on a proffer session between lawyers from the Senate and Bryan's lawyers.  If the proffer session was not productive in the eyes of the Senate lawyers there would be no offer of immunity.

    The sword being held over Bryan's head is that while working for Hillary maintaining the server Bryan was also working for the State Department.  During the first year he reported being paid by Hillary for this, as required by the State Department.  There seems to be no record of him reporting outside income except for the first year.

    The State Department requires reporting of outside payment, but when questioned had no comment on if Bryan did report all payments from Hillary.


    "Seems to beo record"? (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:29:09 PM EST
    During the first year he reported being paid by Hillary for this, as required by the State Department.  There seems to be no record of him reporting outside income except for the first year.

    What is that supposed to mean?  Apart from having a copy of his tax return, you would have no idea if there was a record.  

    Costco sells tinfoil in large rolls ...


    Predicting??????????? (none / 0) (#83)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 11:44:13 PM EST
    Or hoping?  And I am predicting that Trump will crash and burn in the next 6 months. Or am I hoping?

    People who like Hillary aren't concerned about the emails. In fact, like she said, it is a distraction and that is why she apologized. She had to apologize in order to explain them. Bernie is a cool person and my niece in Vermont thinks he walks on water. So once we get those primaries out of the way, we can look at the numbers again. Also, my friends in Florida say Jeb pulled a few shady deals himself. Once we can get a near GOP candidate, we will see more dirt fly. With Hillary being the front runner right now, the GOP just want to knock her down and so it is the email thing. So many of the Fed's agencies have been hacked that I would think they would be embarrassed and want to use her server for their own emails. Heh.


    Wow - so "hard" (none / 0) (#200)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:21:45 PM EST
    "to keep up with".

    Pffttttt ...


    Happy that the Iran situation (none / 0) (#9)
    by CST on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 11:39:57 AM EST
    sounds like a done deal.

    If there is one good thing to come out of this administration's foreign policy it will be a potential legacy of friendliness with the Iranian people and the presumable corresponding distancing of friendliness with the ruling family of Saudi Arabia.

    Iran has a fairly well educated (and liberal for the region) middle class, many of whom have a positive view of the west.  They should become our natural allies.

    As Long As We Are On the Subject... (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 12:01:45 PM EST
    ...of Obama's achievements.

    Obama to sign executive order on Labor Day extending paid sick leave to federal contractors

    Showing solidarity with workers on Labor Day, President Barack Obama will sign an executive order Monday requiring paid sick leave for employees of federal contractors, including 300,000 who currently receive none.

    Under the executive order, employees working on federal contracts gain the right to a minimum of one hour of paid leave for every 30 hours they work. Stretched out over 12 months, that's up to seven days per year. The order will allow employees to use the leave to care for sick relatives as well, and will affect contracts starting in 2017 -- just as Obama leaves office.

    I honestly did not know what a lot of people don't have paid sick days.  I actually thought they were mandatory.

    Who in their right mind can ague paid sick days are a bad idea.  


    The guys in the cube next door (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 12:08:18 PM EST
    both of whom have paid sick days.

    You're on fire Ruff! (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 12:26:12 PM EST
    Also known as the "don't tread on me, tread on them!" phenomenon.  F*cking white people;)

    Between (none / 0) (#21)
    by CST on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 12:42:41 PM EST
    Just retail and hospitality you're talking something like 20% of the workforce.  The service economy is in a lot of ways replacing the old industry economy.  Only they get $hit for $hit in the way of benefits.

    ... who've publicly proclaimed their intent to immediately abrogate the prospective agreement with Iran upon taking office, Ohio Gov. John Kasich poses the obvious question:

    "Well, what does that mean? I don't know what that means. You're going to rip it up and then what? Then what are you going to do when you rip it up?"

    While that obviously won't play well with the GOP's cuckoo for cocoa puffs base, good for him. Somebody on that side has to be the adult in the room.



    Huckabee's "Hellzapoppin." (none / 0) (#23)
    by KeysDan on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 01:33:07 PM EST
    Is it possible to carry-on Bible reading scams that cure cancer from a jail cell?  Inquiring rubes want to know.

     Huckabee has Clerk Davis' back (as he did for Josh Duggar, but more so).  "Lock me up if you think that's how freedom is best served, ...I am willing to serve the next 8 years in the WH..but, am willing to serve the next 8 years in jail."  he told "the folks."   But, he is not willing to spend one day under the tyranny of people who believe they can take freedom ..conscience away,  The law does not matter, because Huckabee.

    The Huckabee organized Hellzapoppin  was a sight to not see.  Liberty Counselor, Clerk Davis praising "Him", with arms outstretched to the heavens, accompanied by her bib-overall-clad husband with a hat seemingly borrowed from Ray Bolger's  Wizard of Oz costume department.

    Not to be outdone, Ted Cruz tried to horn-in on Huckabee, but the preacher/candidate's aides muscled him to the sidelines.

     And, there were the true believers carrying their Christian banners and placards, including the loving "Got AIDS Yet?"  A sign that proved their firmly held beliefs. Some gave support as well as concern that the gays will surely give rise to famine in retribution for getting married--or just being.

     Kim Davis is a celebrity martyr.  Apparently, a former floozy who is twice born and doubly despicable petty grifter.  But it is Huckabee, a Republican candidate for president of the US that is spared from his just criticism other than that it is political.  Even, Howard Dean, says, Mike is a nice guy, just don't know about this, guess it is just "politics."  A way to get out of the bottom percentages.  Quite understandable, a way to distinguish himself.  Not so sure about that.  What about dangerous demagog?  

    So little mention of the core of the dispute.  that discharging her ministerial duties as an elected official is not endorsing or participating in marriage--any marriage.  Indeed, Judge Bunning in his original ruling against Clerk Davis  stated that her job in no way requires her to "condone or endorse same sex marriage.  It simply asks the clerk to certify that the information provided is accurate and the couple is qualified to marry under kY law."  Her responsibility is paperwork and filing, not authorizing or officiating.  Not many couples getting married think of the clerk issuing their license as endorsing or condoning. But, I will keep an eye on newspaper announcements to see how many clerks are invited to Golden Wedding Anniversary celebrations.

    Davis wants an accommodation, on her terms, not to do her job. The judge provided an accommodation--let her deputies do her job, and do not interfere.   She refused and went to jail.  It remains to be seen if Clerk Davis does not interfere with the deputies doing their jobs as they said under oath to the judge that  they would.

    The gays of Rowan County have been reasonable in the face of obdurate official behavior.  However, it would be wise, in my view, to do what Liberty Counsel does not want--let it cool down.  No requests for a license for a week or so, let the deputies make their required reports to the judge so not to invoke new sanctions.  And, then push the re-start button. And, plan to visit Huckabee in the hoosegow.  

    Prediction (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 05:00:34 PM EST
    Kim Davis has stars in her eyes.  She is hanging out with some Very Important People!  They call her!  They CARE about her!  They want to be PHOTOGRAPHED with her!  She's famous, and how far off can "rich" be?

    The situation will be resolved shortly, and despite his bold statement, Mike is not going to serve her time for her.  He can't just hang around town, not if he wants to get to the kiddie table debate.  Soon enough the pols and the press will be gone, and Huck et al will not be taking or returning her calls.  She won't be a footnote in the history of this campaign, she'll be a trivia question.

    The sell-by date was yesterday.


    Honestly (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 06:37:10 PM EST
    i think that depends on what happens next.   If she quietly goes back to work and does not attempt to interfere with business in the office, then yes I agree.

    But I agree with you that she has stars in her eyes.  I think it's very possible that she is not ready to go quietly.   I think she may show up at work tomorrow or the Friday or Monday and start the whole freak show again.  Because she likes everything you mentioned.  

    Her lawyers have made it pretty clear she is unbowed and now she has a taste.  That spectacle of her parading out of jail like freaking Nelson Mandela was sickening.  But the one very clear thing was she was lovin it.


    The Twitter Comments... (none / 0) (#27)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 02:13:52 PM EST
    ...had me rolling.  PIC
    Rednecks gotta redneck.

    who's the guy cosplaying as a farmer

    Mike apologized for having sent his good coveralls to the cleaners, like a big city dandy.

    with Liberty and Justice, Overall.

    I cannot wait to see what the internets does with Photoshop in a couple days.

    Why would she comply this time, all non-compliance has done is make her famous, a martyr, some cash.  I will be shocked if she complies, she got 1001 idiots with agendas giving her advise.


    The casting call (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 03:34:29 PM EST
    fir the remake of Green Acres.

    Religious Beleifs (none / 0) (#25)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 01:57:32 PM EST
    I just wanted bring over the conversation from yesterday because I think the thread filled before the comments ended.

    I went US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and found this, which surprised me:

    Religious Accommodation/Dress & Grooming Policies

    Unless it would be an undue hardship on the employer's operation of its business, an employer must reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices. This applies not only to schedule changes or leave for religious observances, but also to such things as dress or grooming practices that an employee has for religious reasons. These might include, for example, wearing particular head coverings or other religious dress (such as a Jewish yarmulke or a Muslim headscarf), or wearing certain hairstyles or facial hair (such as Rastafarian dreadlocks or Sikh uncut hair and beard). It also includes an employee's observance of a religious prohibition against wearing certain garments (such as pants or miniskirts).

    When an employee or applicant needs a dress or grooming accommodation for religious reasons, he should notify the employer that he needs such an accommodation for religious reasons. If the employer reasonably needs more information, the employer and the employee should engage in an interactive process to discuss the request. If it would not pose an undue hardship, the employer must grant the accommodation.

    Religious Discrimination & Reasonable Accommodation & Undue Hardship

    An employer does not have to accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices if doing so would cause undue hardship to the employer. An accommodation may cause undue hardship if it is costly, compromises workplace safety, decreases workplace efficiency, infringes on the rights of other employees, or requires other employees to do more than their share of potentially hazardous or burdensome work.

    That last paragraph to me reads like something that the employer has to prove and I can't imagine serving drinks on an airliner qualifies as burdensome work.  But I would argue work is in itself burdensome, so anything one does at work qualifies, but I am positive that is not how the EEOC would interpret it.

    They are basically saying you cannot discriminate when hiring because of religion and then you have to make accommodations for their beliefs, at least minor ones.

    I don't like that this is based on personal beliefs, and not common beliefs of the religion.  Does she really believe she can't serve alcohol or is it that she can't consume it, and doesn't like serving it.  No one can possibly know.

    Obviously, this particular case isn't a big deal, and it sounds like the airlines made a couple comments in regards to book of foreign writings and something about her headscarf, so they are probably going to pay the piper.  I mean a 12 month unpaid leave says to me 'Go away, but we are scared to fire you.'

    Story Link

    I think it could be... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 02:20:18 PM EST
    easily argued that accommodating the "can't touch booze" request would decrease workplace efficiency.  

    2 Flight Attendants tasked with serving all of coach, and one won't touch booze because of his/her religion, that decreases efficiency 50%.  Allah forbid two flight attendants who won't touch the sauce accidentally get scheduled on the same flight, sinners gonna riot!


    ... the Muslim woman's employer is not one of the major carriers, such as United or American. Rather, Charee Stanley works for ExpressJet, a commuter / regional carrier that is better known to passengers as either American Eagle, Delta Connection or United Express, depending upon where you live in the central and eastern United States.

    ExpressJet flights generally offer one class of service, because the company's aircraft -- exclusively of Embraer (Brazil) and Bombardier (Canada) manufacture -- have a 35-to-76 seat capacity and are designed for quick turnarounds. Only its Delta Connection flights, which utilize the airline's larger CRJ-700 (65 seats) and CRJ-900 (76 seats) aircraft, offer first class service in addition to coach.

    Further, federal law requires the presence of flight attendants on board airliners strictly for safety considerations, and aircraft which have a capacity of 50 seats or less require only one flight attendant. In that regard, perhaps two-thirds of ExpressJet's fleet is comprised of 50-seat ERJ-145 or CRJ-200 aircraft. Does ExpressJet utilize only one flight attendant on those aircraft per federal law, or do they use two?

    That said, passenger safety comprises the bulk of a flight attendant's training, and Ms. Stanley's certainly qualified in that regard. So, while serving alcohol, other beverages and in-flight snacks / meals -- for a nominal charge, of course -- is an ancillary function of their duties, it is not the primary rationale for their employ, at least from the standpoint of federal law.

    It will be interesting to see where this ultimately goes. Personally, were I ExpressJet's CEO, I'd quickly seek to resolve this matter by offering to employ this woman in another capacity with the company, where she would not come into contact with alcoholic beverages during the course of her duties. I would think that's a reasonable accommodation.



    I Would Argue... (none / 0) (#53)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 04:42:16 PM EST
    ...that the airline's primary purpose is to turn a buck, and while safety is a legally required part of that equation, the attendants are also there to serve the very profitable beverages, aka alcohol.

    And while safety may be may be the bulk of their training, it's not the bulk of their actual duties.  It's something they must know, but beyond the demos they rarely use that function as part of their ongoing duties.  And certainly, while they are in the the air the bulk of their activity revolves around customer service.

    Being smaller IMO makes it worse, IMO the airlines can easily argue that one attendant planes need that one attendant to perform all duties.  There is no option B for them to accommodate her beliefs.  Even with two, to me at least, her beliefs are putting the burden entirely on another person.  If that person is me, I just might find god on that flight and decide no alcohol pouring.

    And that is what is so dangerous about all this, someone is going to have to decide what beliefs are BS/acceptable.  Because one day I might find jesus, then lose him for a while, and find him again when in reality I just don't want do some tasks.  It would force companies to have some sort of religious litmus test/guidelines, which to me is infinitely worse than firing people who can't perform the duties they were hired to do.


    I would agree with all of that. (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 06:52:15 PM EST
    I'm normally pretty reluctant to take the side of corporate management in most labor disputes. But in this particular situation, Charee Stanley's refusal to perform a routine part of a flight attendant's duties because of religious objections likely places an undue burden upon ExpressJet as her employer, because of its capacity as a regional carrier with an all-commuter jet fleet.

    But like I said, were I the company CEO, I'd still offer Ms. Stanley another position. And if she turns that down, then it's fair to say at that point that both she and her attorney(s) probably have another agenda, and this situation will have to be resolved in court.



    Donald, at what point would you draw the line?? (none / 0) (#93)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:37:42 AM EST
    She was hired to be a FA. She had to know what FA's do. If she didn't then she knew while in training.

    What's next?? Muslim check out clerks that won't sell pork?

    What this is about is a Muslim demanding special treatment. It has been happening in a variety of ways for years.

    From special religious facilities in our public schools

    to special school lunches

    to special prayer times for school students.

    I have lots more if you are interested.


    Evangelicals (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 09:00:15 AM EST
    have been demanding preferential treatment for years and all you do is defend them.

    Actually... (none / 0) (#102)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 09:22:09 AM EST
    ...with Kim Davis Jim, surprisingly, has the same view.  She should do her job.

    Jim, this is not about a Muslim wanting special preference, it's about religious people wanting to inject their beliefs at work.

    I don't think any religion in the world forbids people from validating information on a secular form or serving alcohol, both are interpreting the acts as some kind of approval when they are not.


    I posted long ago that (none / 0) (#115)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 10:45:10 AM EST
    Kim should do her job and that I see no difference... So your comment is redundant and makes you appear uninformed.

    GA, as the saying goes....You are (none / 0) (#116)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 10:49:24 AM EST
    WRONG. I have never defended as you claim.

    But you know that. You just want to make things up because you think if you attack enough people will believe you.

    The South was full of people like you back in the day... We called them racists. Now you aren't a racist but your methods are the same.

    Now, what are those preferential treatments???


    Jim (none / 0) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 10:55:54 AM EST
    you have posted numerous times how you support people like Hobby Lobby no? This case you might seem to think is "different" but your general support has been for evangelicals to have preferential treatment.

    All the Hobby Lobby (none / 0) (#141)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 01:58:05 PM EST
    owners did is reuse to provide certain free contraception devices/drugs  as part of employer paid insurance.

    The owners of Hobby Lobby told the Court that they were willing to cover some forms of contraception but believed that the so-called morning-after pills and two kinds of IUDs can cause what they believe to be a type of abortion, by preventing a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterine wall or causing an already implanted egg to fail to thrive.


    They aren't asking for the employee to NOT use the contraception of the employee's choice

    OTOH the Muslim FA obviously disapproves alcohol and refuses to serve it.

    That's a huge difference.


    Racists who dog-whistle ... (none / 0) (#134)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 12:59:54 PM EST
    ... are still racists.

    Easy (none / 0) (#202)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:35:43 PM EST
    They want schools to be closed for Christmas - not to mention Easter.  They want the right to pray in school.  They want "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance.  They want to sing religious songs at school concerts.  They want to use school facilities for Christian student groups.

    You need more?


    She converted after hiring, fyi (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by Towanda on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 10:07:16 AM EST
    -- like Kim Davis, born again only a few years ago.

    Not that the chronology matters in terms of doing the job, either job.  Embrace a new faith, fine -- but then, also find new employment to fit the faith.

    I agree with those who also know the small-airline, small-plane flights, which we often have to fly to connect for the big airbus flights.  A sole attendant needs to do all aspects of the job -- and even on a flight with more than one attendant, no one else ought to have to do someone else's job.

    (And this comes from someone in employment that requires me to make many accommodations for people with disabilities, which I am glad to do.  But the law in my field is for "reasonable accommodations," and not all accommodations requested are reasonable for the greater good of all involved.  So, we work out something else -- as I also suspect that the airline may offer to do.  Welcome to working the ticket counter, former flight attendant.)


    He has lots more that he can get from Pam Geller.. (none / 0) (#122)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 11:31:48 AM EST
    And he was equally outraged about Christians stopping women from getting birth control and pushing school prayer and anti-scientific intelligent design theories and the funding of "faith based initiatives" and religious settlements with our tax dollars..

    He has tons more if you're interested..



    jondee, you're ,making things up...again (none / 0) (#142)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 02:00:11 PM EST
    You forget, Jim (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 02:55:45 PM EST
    I've purused your topsey turvey, cuckoo clock right-wing blog; which at times makes the Birchers sound positively lucid.

    Pay no attention (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 02:59:04 PM EST
    to that blog behind the curtain

    Do you even read the thread before you post? (none / 0) (#133)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 12:55:18 PM EST
    I answered that question many hours ago.

    And She Can't Be in 1st Class... (none / 0) (#32)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 02:35:25 PM EST
    ...all alone, which means her decision is burdensome in regards to having to schedule around her religion.

    I dunno (none / 0) (#33)
    by CST on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 02:36:44 PM EST
    The last couple flights I was on didn't have it anyway, or if they did, they only took cash, and they didn't want $20s either or you might not get change.

    Your best bet is to load up in the terminal.

    P.S. I've gotta say, NY has 3 airports and all of them are gawd awful.  LaGuardia's seperate terminal for half of gate C is such a dump.  No TVs to let you know flight status, your only hope if they change anything is to overhear the guy on the loudspeaker who always sounds like he's talking through a noise machine.  No bar (NO BAR!!!), very limited food.  Seriously I've been to nicer airports in third world countries.

    And I guess I'm not the only one who thinks that.  All three airports are on the short list for worst airport.  There's only 8 on the list total.


    Cash? (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 02:47:52 PM EST
    My problem has been the bastards will only take cards for booze on flights, no cash allowed. So much for legal tender, good for all debts public and private.  

    Hell yeah, regardless of the inconvenient payment options,  the prices are a major rip.  Best bet is to smoke a fatty and pop a 'cet before boarding.  How else could you stand the lot of the unfriendly flying experience?

    Our airports do suck, but long overdue major renovations to LaGuardia are on the way.


    How about our idea to ... (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 07:10:13 PM EST
    kdog: "Our airports do suck, but long overdue major renovations to LaGuardia are on the way."

    ... change the airport's name to Lou Reed International? Think of the marketing possibilities! "Traveling to Brooklyn? Take a Walk on the Wild Side."

    Of course, given the present sorry shape of LaGuardia, one could argue that flying in and out of there is already a walk on the wild side.


    Of the other two facilities, I really didn't think Newark-Liberty Int'l was a bad airport at all, but then all we were doing there was changing planes on our way to Albany. As for JFK, my only objection was that it was a lot farther away from Manhattan than I had initially thought.

    But both airports have nonstop flights to and from Honolulu, which I think is great because as a general rule, I prefer to avoid changing planes whenever possible.



    I'm pretty sure I read recently (none / 0) (#81)
    by Peter G on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 11:24:08 PM EST
    that New York State is planning to tear down the current LaGuardia Airport totally and replace it with a new airport in the same location, having figured out that the present facility cannot even be repaired and upgraded.

    That would be good. (none / 0) (#136)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 01:08:37 PM EST
    Right now, LaGuardia is a dump.

    NY airport rant: (none / 0) (#108)
    by CST on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 09:49:18 AM EST
    Flying out of JFK just always seemed like way more hassle than your average airport, too many people, long lines, dirty, a lot like the rest of the city but in an enclosed space.

    Newark itself isn't terrible, but it's the most delayed airport in the country, pretty much every year.  Which makes the general experience of flying terrible, and brings back terrible association memories.

    There are no words to describe the dump that is LaGuardia.

    Honestly, Logan ain't great but it's improving and it's easy to get to and for me at least I'm home.  But a lot of the time I fly anywhere I have a connecting flight out of one of the three airports from hell.  And often times on my way home I can't help but think of the fact that if I left the airport and just taken a bus I'd be home already.


    I Disagree... (none / 0) (#39)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 03:07:58 PM EST
    ...in that in the whole airport system, the price of booze on a flight is the cheapest thing available.  Plus with the CC machines, no tipping, $4 for a beer and $5 for 2oz of name brand booze and a chaser, that is a bargain anywhere.

    The same thing in the airport is double and tip.

    I haven't seen cash for booze in probably 5 years, I can see where that would be problematic for you.


    For some reason... (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 04:00:10 PM EST
    I thought I heard them charging 8 bucks for the shot bottle on my last flight, could be wrong as I could not buy if I wanted too.  And I promise not to sue for their unwillingness to accommodate me and my religious beliefs, finance edition.

    Though I guess 8 bucks is still a bargain compared to the terminal bar, or most bars in NYC...showing my age.  "In my day you could get a shot and a beer for 5 bucks!" lol.


    Circa... (none / 0) (#49)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 04:12:46 PM EST
    ... pre-9/11 you could bring booze on the plane so long as the seal wasn't broken and just have the staff bring the mixer.

    I used to get seriously loaded and no one cared beyond the getting up for the restroom more than normal.  Now, beyond the pure effort it takes to actually try and get drunk on a flight, they are way too quick to toss you.  

    Who ever heard of being too drunk to sit in an uncomfortable seat, but it's a thing.  I guess the seats back then were more spacious and drunk people tended to pass out rather than brawl over the person in-front of them for reclining.


    agreed (none / 0) (#26)
    by CST on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 02:09:17 PM EST
    although it sounds like they could possibly make a case based on

    "decreases workplace efficiency, infringes on the rights of other employees, or requires other employees to do more than their share of potentially hazardous or burdensome work"

    I also really didn't like the comparison because the main thing to me is that Kim Davis was infringing upon the constitutional rights of others.  And however you feel about drinking on an airplane, it's not one of your constitutional rights, and it's decidedly a first world problem.

    And yes, I realize if there is one place you might really want that drink it's on a flight.  But it's still not remotely the same thing (not to mention, others were still serving drinks).


    Not a perfect comparison... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 02:29:40 PM EST
    to be sure, but still somewhat comparable...two people who want to be accommodated by their employer, but don't want to accommodate the employer's customers, which is the reason they are/were employed.

    Of course Big Baby Davis' sins are far worse than the flight attendant's, but I think they're both selfish.  


    I Didn't Make... (none / 0) (#31)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 02:34:01 PM EST
    ...a Davis comparison, as I agree with you about KD.

    And I don't really care about this case, but I just wanted to discuss it.  Also with the airlines you have all kinds of odd things like what happens when they leave US airspace, her decision and the companies responsibilities most certainly change as boundaries are crossed.  If she is on a small plane, maybe the only attendant, she clearly has to serve alcohol as there is one else to do it.

    It's not about what I want on a plane, it's about what her employer expects of her as an employee.  They have some rights regarding employee behavior and refusing to do their job as expected by all employees in the position.

    A better example might be a waitress who doesn't want to serve wine at a restaurant that serves a lot of it.  Unrelated, but I have always thought it very odd that people not old enough to consume alcohol can serve it.

    Not for nothing, but Kim Davis' boss, the public can most certainly fire her for any reason they want, including religious mumbo jumbo.  I bet she doesn't win the D vote next time around, so either she switches party affiliation of a bunch of R's vote D.  Depending of course on Kentucky Law.


    yea it wasn't you (none / 0) (#34)
    by CST on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 02:41:51 PM EST
    Just in general.

    I think what especially kills me about all of this is just how miserable it is to fly anyway.  Half the time they don't even have food anymore.  If it wasn't for the "religious freedom" aspect, the fact that a flight doesn't have booze is not even noteworthy at this point.  Source - had to fly recently for work.  Was miserable.


    I've been lucky. (none / 0) (#56)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 04:58:04 PM EST
    Almost all of my business-related trips are interisland, and Hawaiian Airlines has long been recognized as one of the country's better air carriers. Further, it's the only U.S. airline that still serves free inflight meals on its trans-Pacific service, and is my first choice for mainland travel.

    But alas, next week I'm working in Bend, OR and have to fly United. In my estimation, that airline went sharply downhill in the late '90s, and never really recovered. I'm flying to Honolulu in the morning where I'll work all day, before catching the red-eye later that night to San Francisco, where I have an almost 5-hr. layover before my connecting mid-morning flight to Bend. Ugh! The return's not so bad, though, because I connect in LAX with only a 70 minute layover, and then fly nonstop to Hilo.



    Donald, the aging (none / 0) (#64)
    by fishcamp on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 06:20:27 PM EST
    But still famous Hawaiian surfer Gerry Lopez, known as Mr Pipeline, lives in Bend, Oregon.  He builds custom snow boards and still shapes surfboards up there.  You may even know him.  He's probably in the book.  He can shape a new board for your new Big Island waves.

    I used to work with his brother Kit. (none / 0) (#70)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 07:33:18 PM EST
    I do know Gerry from years earlier, and he's a really great guy. Bend actually has a fairly sizable number of former Hawaii residents. It's beautiful country up there, although if I had to relocate to the Pacific Northwest, it would be to Portland, Eugene or the Puget Sound area.

    Funny you should bring up (none / 0) (#140)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 01:47:59 PM EST
    United Airlines... I was in Seattle on business and had a meeting the next day in LA. I was running late and had to rush to SeaTac. I almost missed my UAL flight but since I was a 1K Million Miler, I was flying over 100,000 miles per year with UAL and had flown well over 1,000,000 miles with them , they gave me an upgrade to First Class in the Boeing 737 in window seat 2D, on the right hand side of the plane. We pushed back on time at around 5:00PM and then were pulled back. The pilot announced we were in "flow control" due to "problems" in LAX. My seat partner was a smoker and as the time passed he became vocal over why we couldn't leave.  Time passed and we finally took off around 3 hours late. The problem, according to pilot, was low visibility.   Which struck me as unusual since fog is fairly unusual at LAX but I didn't really think about it. As we approached LAX from the north the pilot announced that the problem was riots in LA and that traffic was being slotted to reduce the time in approach. Translated that meant that they were worried that people would be shooting at the plane. When you come in from the north to LAX you typically turn left, go out about 10 miles east of the I5 and then do a 90 to the right for approach. As we turned down wind I had a perfect view of LA on fire. We were around 8000' and LA looked like it had been bombed. Numerous fires were burning with smoke plumes that were solid. So the pilot hadn't completely lied. Visibility was impaired.  During all of this I noted that we were quite high and I wasn't surprised when the pilot announced that we would do what is called a short field approach and landing. He said not to worry when the airplane started to descend rapidly just think of it like an elevator. What he meant was that he would "dirty up" the wings by deploying the slats and flaps, drop the wheels and just let the plane drop. This keeps the approach high to avoid ground fire and the descent is rapid.  Normally as you come in over the Fabulous Forum you are around 1500'. That night we were much higher. Along about then he did as described and we dropped like a rock. At what seemed like the last minute he spooled up, flared out and made a perfect landing in which we stopped, it seemed, in about 10'. It was, of course, much longer. Applause broke out as we rolled out and taxied to the gate. I snagged a ride over to the Marriott, checked in, ordered some room service. The red was quite good, but with just a bit too much oak, and watched freshman congress woman Democrat Maxine Waters make excuses for the riots.

    Needless to say my meeting was cancelled and I flew back to Denver the next day without incident.  Waters kept talking and LA kept burning,


    Fog isn't all that unusual at LAX, Jim, ... (none / 0) (#169)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 04:42:46 PM EST
    ... or in the L.A. area in general, particularly in the winter and spring. As a frequent business traveler, I've been on a handful of airliners over the years that have been forced to seek alternative airports because LAX was closed due to fog.

    The last time I got fogged out at LAX was three years ago. We landed instead at Ontario, which is about 50 miles inland, where we were delayed for over three hours before we finally being taken back into L.A. via motorcoach.

    The only three airports where I've ever experienced fog-related delays are LAX, Sacramento and Seattle-Tacoma. And LAX is the only one in which planes I've been on have actually been forced to divert elsewhere prior to our arrival. I've found myself hanging out at Las Vegas-McCarran, Phoenix-Sky Harbor and even Santa Barbara, when we should've been at LAX.

    And one time when I was in college and returning to SoCal for the XMas holidays, the fog was so thick when we landed at LAX that the pilot had to stop the plane dead on the taxiway because he couldn't see. We had to be towed to the gate, which took well over an hour because we had landed on Rwy. 24R, and United's terminals / concourses are on the opposite side of the airport.

    Surprisingly, for all the many times I've flown in and out of the Bay Area, I've never been fogged out there, and SFO is supposed to be one of the most notorious airports in the country for that. I shouldn't jinx myself, because I'm changing planes at SFO next Tuesday morning on my way to Bend, OR.

    Other than Chicago-O'Hare and the D.C. / Baltimore area airports, I haven't really flown in and out of eastern U.S. airports with any regularity to have experienced significant weather-related delays. One time at O'Hare, there was only one runway open for takeoffs due to heavy rains and some flooding, and my nonstop United 747 flight to Honolulu had to cue up on the taxiway for two hours before we could take off. We burned so much fuel while awaiting our turn to depart, we had to land briefly at LAX to top off the tanks. But that's it.

    Honolulu Int'l was closed for about three hours due last Thursday to very intense thunderstorm activity, and so several aircraft arriving from the U.S. mainland ended up parked over here at Hilo Airport until the all-clear signal was given and they could continue on to Oahu. Up until this summer, thunderstorms have actually been very rare in the islands. But this hurricane season, with its nine named storms thus far, has been very different. We haven't been hit directly, but we've certainly been sideswiped.



    Advice for the day (none / 0) (#29)
    by CoralGables on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 02:23:03 PM EST
    Advice ≠ Advise

    While Your At It (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 03:36:23 PM EST
    What's the deal with you're contractions?  I find them to useful not too use.  I would of sworn that their used two be more respect from people four there native language.

    I blame the emigrants.


    Will take under advisement (none / 0) (#45)
    by CoralGables on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 03:41:54 PM EST
    your gonn'a (none / 0) (#46)
    by CST on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 03:47:27 PM EST
    gave I a ulcer.

    Another pillar of the community, (none / 0) (#52)
    by KeysDan on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 04:37:54 PM EST
    Oregon Judge Vance Day refuses to marry same sex couples.  And, then there is the matter of Judge Day displaying a photo of Adolph Hitler in his Courtroom.   Not to worry, he has the Fuhrer's photo displayed to honor our veterans of WWII.  Makes sense, probably, to Clerk Davis and Huckabee.  

    A (none / 0) (#54)
    by FlJoe on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 04:47:17 PM EST
    Woodstock of demagoguery Judging by the clips I have seen I don't even think Charlie can do the lunacy justice, but he does put it in a nutshell  
    It's all gibbering nonsense, but the people cheered.
    .... but the people cheered, terrifying.

    Man (none / 0) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 05:36:18 PM EST
    what a complete freak show.

    I'm generally not one to indulge ... (none / 0) (#66)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 06:40:24 PM EST
    ... in salacious gossip. But since this story involves the serial womanizing but traditional marriage-advocating State Sen. Sam Slom (R-East Honolulu), one of my least favorite hypocrites in the Hawaii legislature, and his former live-in lover Malia Zimmerman, local right-wing muckraker and veteran Fox News reporter, it's simply too delicious to not share with people who might appreciate the irony of his present situation. Two tempting tidbits:

    • "[Malia] Zimmerman was divorced with custody of her child when she met Slom. She was 30 years old and Slom was 56."

    • "In April 2013, according to the complain, Slom, 'then 71 years old, allegedly began having an affair with a 26-year old woman.'"

    Having long known these two insufferable a$$wipes personally, I'd say that the gold-digging Zimmerman got exactly what she deserved. For all her putting on airs here as the scorned woman, it should be noted that she rather deliberately inserted herself as a third party to break up Slom's (third) marriage in 1998. Although quite honestly, it's not like her aging Lothario didn't have any choice in that matter, and had to be dragged into the relationship kicking and screaming.

    (Not surprisingly, "Yosemite Sam" took to the floor of the State Senate that same year to denounce President Clinton's relationship with Monica Lewinsky, as he introduced a resolution calling for his impeachment. Say what one will about the guy, but one can never accuse him of not having chutzpah.)

    Further, Slom long bankrolled Zimmerman's wingbat online tabloid, The Hawaii Reporter. It was the perfect symbiotic right-wing relationship between a relentless self-promoter who craves public attention, and a scheming woman who was more than willing to provide it for her own reasons. He pontificated, and she dutifully reported.

    Hawaii state law does not account for unmarried common law relationships, and being that Slom is listed as sole owner on that Hawaii Kai house, I'd say that it's too bad Zimmerman didn't channel Beyoncé, and told him if he liked it then he shoulda put a ring on it. She's probably SOL.

    Schadenfreude, baby.

    As an veteran Fox viewer (none / 0) (#80)
    by ragebot on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 11:14:47 PM EST
    I was shocked to realize there was a veteran female fox reporter who's name I did not recognize so I did a google search on her name and came up with this blurb.

    Malia and Hawaii Reporter have been featured in numerous media outlets around the world including ABC 20/20, American Journalism Review, Associated Press in Tokyo and the US, Bangkok Post, Business Week, Drudge Report, First Amendment Center, Forbes.com, Fox News, Hawaii Public Radio, Honolulu magazine, Hawaii News Now news, Inside Edition, KHON TV News 2, KITV News 4, KSSK with Perry & Price, MSNBC, People Magazine, Public Broadcasting System (PBS) Hawaii, Radio Australia, Samoa News, United Press International, Wall Street Journal, Washington Times foreign bureau and Watchdog.org.

    Not sure this is a description of a "veteran Fox news reporter", more like a stringer who pushes blurbs to any outlet that will buy them.


    You watch Fox and this is (5.00 / 3) (#85)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 06:15:09 AM EST
    what you find shocking?  That there was a reporter you didn't know about?  And here you thought you knew all the female reporters - that you apparently think of as if you are on a first-name basis...

    That may have been the most unintentionally hilarious thing I've read in the last couple days.


    Ann what I find shocking (none / 0) (#112)
    by ragebot on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 10:30:13 AM EST
    is how satire and irony seems to go over so many heads here.

    The blurb I posted from Milia's site listed 27 news outlets she claims to have been associated with, one of which was Fox.

    Donald left the impression Milia's main act was as a Fox reporter when it seems like she was simply a stringer who pushed blurbs to any news outlet that would buy them.  Calling her a veteran Fox reporter seems over the top to me.


    Nothing is over the top (none / 0) (#114)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 10:42:45 AM EST
    when the target is Fox News.

    Oh, the humanity (none / 0) (#120)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 11:19:00 AM EST
    These constant attacks on Fox are just like how the Nazis dealt with voices of dissent.

    What they are (none / 0) (#145)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 02:04:22 PM EST
    are exercises in preening before your audience and saying things you know they will agree with....

    Kinda like a junior high boy bad mouthing the teacher for passing out homework.

    Nah...that's too adult a comparsion.


    Of course none of that goes (none / 0) (#155)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 03:01:34 PM EST
    on at Fox..lol

    The difference being that on Fox the intellectual level of discoirse itself is geared toward troubled middle schoolers.


    And that's the problem, ragebot. (none / 0) (#139)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 01:46:59 PM EST
    You posted from Malia Zimmerman's site. Most respectable people in Hawaii public life want little or nothing to do with her, because fact and truth are entirely malleable to her.

    Zimmerman was fired from ... (none / 0) (#138)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 01:39:33 PM EST
    ... Pacific Business News in May 2000, having manufactured a phony controversy about vote rigging in our 1998 gubernatorial election in collusion with John Fund, Deborah Phillips and the hilariously misnamed Voting Integrity Project.

    They created such a stir that the State of Hawaii was compelled to pull out the ballots and recount them all by hand, just to prove them wrong. Both the Republican and Democratic parties had official observers to watch the recount, of which I was one. A week of my life was wasted by that nonsense.

    As a "reporter," Malia Zimmerman is nothing more than a partisan smear merchant and a truly vile piece of phuquing trash. What's since happened to her regarding her allegations about her former lover, I chalk it up to karma.



    The upside of the holocaust (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 07:30:57 PM EST
    Beck read the email on air during his radio show.

    "I just got an email from Louie Gohmert. He said, `Last week, I announced to the world if the House and Senate will treat Iran -- the Iran treaty as a treaty, I will not run for my congressional seat again. It's the only thing that I have left that our leadership wants beside my integrity,'" Beck said.

    "And after last week that I spent in Egypt, I feel so compelled to do absolutely everything I can to derail this president's drastic move towards a nuclear Holocaust," Beck read. "I won't run again if the House voted on my attached resolution and the Senate voted on ratification."

    The Eagles cut Tebow, who is returning (none / 0) (#78)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 10:32:52 PM EST
    to ESPN, where he specializes in SEC football. (Google news.)

    Found his true calling at last (none / 0) (#96)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:44:53 AM EST
    Does he proselytize on air? (none / 0) (#154)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 03:00:45 PM EST
    A vote for HRC is a vote for ME war (none / 0) (#82)
    by Politalkix on Wed Sep 09, 2015 at 11:41:15 PM EST
    Peace in the Middle East? (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:46:46 AM EST
    Which candidate is promising that? Certainly none have ever delivered it.

    On the Voting Front (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 09:43:52 AM EST
    A vote for a democrat is infinitely better than a vote for a republican if you are war adverse in the ME.

    The fact that you interpret that link as HRC will wage war with Iran is so ridiculous that one has to wonder if you actually believe it or just put it up for some attention.

    For all the divergence between Clinton and Obama's foreign policy rhetoric, there is minimal variance in their actual policy prescriptions -- a point most acutely emphasized in Clinton's remarks on her commitment to Israeli security.

    Unless (none / 0) (#87)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 06:21:17 AM EST
    You think Iran will abide by the rules.
    Then she would have no reason to wield the stick.

    Obama offered them the carrots, Hillary is threatening the stick. And I don't believe she would draw a red line, and not act if it was crossed.

    I don't see anything but war in the Mideast going forward anyway.
    Sunni Arab nations, and Israel, both seem to be very concerned regarding Iran, and the Ayatollah recent proclamations (Israel will not be around in 25 years) point in that direction.
    And Putin has already placed troops in Syria....


    If Obama had not surrendered to Iran (1.00 / 1) (#90)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:18:48 AM EST
    there would be no need for a war with them.

    I thought Jimmy Carter already (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 11:22:50 AM EST
    surrendered to Iran; just a few short years after the backstabbing liberals forced us to surrender to North Vietnam..

    You (5.00 / 4) (#123)
    by FlJoe on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 11:35:10 AM EST
    must surely remember when Obama handed over his sword on the battleship Missouri, or was that a farmhouse in Appomattox, history is soooo confusing, good thing we have Jim around to set us straight.

    He can't decide if Obama surrendered (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 12:46:20 PM EST
    because his African father taught him to hate America, or if he surrendered in order to instill a state of panic in Americans that in turn would justify a New World Order government takeover and disarming of the citizenry..

    Those are two of the ingenious theories with wide currency in the mental universe of the Far Right..


    I guess (none / 0) (#100)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 09:02:54 AM EST
    you have forgotten that the GOP wanted a war with Iran long before Obama was president. You guys have become completely unhinged.

    If Bush and Cheney hadn't allowed (none / 0) (#106)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 09:38:32 AM EST
    Iran to continue to grow its nuclear program, who knows where things would be today...

    BS, politalkix. BS (none / 0) (#103)
    by christinep on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 09:28:08 AM EST
    Life and diplomacy anywhere--particularly, in the Middle East--is not about all or nothing.  Diplomacy requires both restraint and the ability to project genuine strength. The proper balance is at the center of a workable agreement and effective policy, leadership.

    Not too long back, you used the ??? motif; but, this stuff is plain pushing the BS.  Sometimes when one's turn at the wheel is nearing a change or transition, it can be hard to give it up ... as some of the boys will discover, it takes a certain kind of diplomacy & know-how to let go of the political turn when it comes.  


    I think this is just HRC lifting up (none / 0) (#128)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 12:20:26 PM EST
    her skirts to prove that yes, she does have balls, and no, she's not afraid to go to war.

    It's a political thing, but the issue I have with it is that it won't matter to those who wouldn't vote for her even if she took up arms herself, but it does put off those who already think she's a little too hawkish.


    Rather disappointing, as so many people (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:24:32 PM EST
    say they would never vote for her b/c she is a warmonger.

    A post from a Clinton-hater (none / 0) (#203)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:40:12 PM EST
    ... is guaranteed to be a lie.

    Freddie Gray trials to stay in city; (none / 0) (#113)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 10:35:25 AM EST
    From the Baltimore Sun:

    A Baltimore Circuit Court judge ruled Thursday morning against moving the trials of six police officers charged in the arrest and death of Freddie Gray out of the city.

    Judge Barry Williams said the court would still need to determine whether an impartial jury can be seated in Baltimore, but that the proceedings should remain here for now.


    "Nobody knows what the sentiment of the jurors are until you ask them questions about it" during jury selection, Schatzow said to Williams. He said the notion that an unbiased panel can't be found among nearly 300,000 potential jurors was "insulting to the citizenry of Baltimore."

    Schatzow also argued that the rioting was confined to a small geographic area in the city, and that most potential jurors "were inconvenienced at worst."

    He said the state "concedes" that the case has been surrounded by unprecedented publicity, but said "that's not the issue, it's never been the issue."

    I think what this means is that they will conduct voir dire to seat a jury, and depending on how that goes, it could mean the trial does get moved.

    Seems like the city of Baltimore (3.50 / 2) (#124)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 11:38:40 AM EST
    is doing everything they can to convict these cops.  The Mosby press conferences, the payout to the Gray family, and now this ruling.  

    I wonder why other high profile cases get moved to other cities/counties but not this one?  Those cops better have a good voir team.


    Only to You... (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 11:46:48 AM EST
    ...to people with functioning brains, cops getting trials in predominately pro-cop areas, like say Staten Island or Albany, is getting so old.

    God forbid the police get judged by the very people they are sworn to protect, the horror.


    Agreed. (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 06:31:35 PM EST
    The trial of the four LAPD officers accused of felony assault in the 1991 beating of Rodney King was moved from L.A. to Simi Valley, where many law enforcement officers actually live. How'd that particular change of venue ultimately work out for everyone?

    Baltimore's a big city with a large pool of potential jurors. The notion that nearly all its residents are now likely biased against the defendants is a wee bit of a stretch.



    Were you aware that the settlement (3.50 / 2) (#127)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 12:11:30 PM EST
    with the Gray family protects the officers from individual liability?  As the mayor said yesterday, if the head of the FOP is so confident that his officers will be exonerated, if they think it's such a bad decision, let them opt out of the settlement and take their chances being sued on an individual basis.

    Because that's the alternative.  Would you do it?  Would you advise any or all of these officers to expose themselves to that risk?

    As for keeping the trial(s) in the city, all the judge has said is that it will stay for now.  There is a 300,000-person jury pool, and I don't think the judge was buying the argument that an impartial jury could not be seated from among that many people.  


    Here:s the issue (4.25 / 4) (#137)
    by jbindc on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 01:24:18 PM EST
    Maryland state law caps the amount that people injured by police can collect in civil lawsuits at $400,000. (In fact, just earlier this year, Maryland's highest court upheld that cap when they rejected an $11.5 million award to the family of a man shot and killed by police - PG County, I think, an amount Rawlings-Blake agreed with at the time).

    So, the fact that the city settled for an amount 16 times higher than that,when no adjudication has yet taken place looks a little fishy at this point. (But I forgot, Rawlings-Blake is in the midst of a tough re-election challenge).

    If her reasoning is that this will save the city money in the long run and protracted litigation, then why have there been only six payouts greater than $200,000 in Baltimore since 2011 in over 120 police-related death claims (including through this past April - under the tenure of the current mayor?)

    And for her to think the news of the settlement won't be interpreted as a matter of guilt to potential jurors, while legally hopeful (and technically correct) is factually ludicrous.

    (And no, no one is day ng that Freddie Gray's family isn't entitled to a settlement, just that how this has been handled is bizarre and unprofessional).

    Should be interesting to see if and when any of the officers are convicted. This, plus the lack of change of venue become appealable issues.  Conversely, should be interesting to see the reactions if all officers are found not guilty and yet the city still has to pay out the $6.4 million.


    I'm not sure the Gray family should recieve (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 02:08:11 PM EST
    any money.  We still don't know what happened.  

    Yes, the payout looks fishy.  It looks like elected officials trying to please potential voters.


    Uh, who's "we," Kemosabe? (3.50 / 2) (#172)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 04:59:17 PM EST
    Perhaps YOU "still don't know what happened" to Freddie Gray. But most of us have a pretty good idea what likely went down that day, as do Baltimore city officials. So, please speak for yourself only.

    There's a word for that (none / 0) (#148)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 02:24:44 PM EST
    It looks like elected officials trying to please potential voters.

    Why, that would be... DEMOCRACY!

    Oh, the humanity.


    But there are no caps in the (none / 0) (#144)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 02:01:41 PM EST
    federal courts, and that is where the suit would have been filed.

    The city's lawyers suggested the civil case did have legs. A City Hall spokesman told the 11 News I-Team that the lawyers did review the statements made by the police officers and Gray's autopsy before deciding to settle.

    In federal court, the city could have been exposed to large jury verdicts without the protection of liability caps in the state courts.

    "From the city's perspective, the purpose of the civil settlement is to bring closure to the family, to the community and the city and to spare the police officers now facing six criminal trials the continuing ordeal of years and years of civil litigation," Baltimore City Solicitor George Nilson said.


    Gene Ryan, the president of the Baltimore City Fraternal Order of Police Lodge No. 3, told WBAL NewsRadio 1090 AM that the settlement is another example of elected officials not standing behind the city's rank-and-file.

    "The evidence hasn't been presented, and I don't understand why the mayor's, the City Council's, the state delegates' (and) the state senators' phones aren't blowing up over this. Taxpayers should be going through the roof about this decision," Ryan told WBAL NewsRadio 1090 AM.

    The mayor insisted that the move is actually one that will protect the officers charged in the case.

    "If I'm Gene Ryan and believe in my heart that these officers are innocent, then I would have confidence that at the end of the trial, my officers would be found innocent and this whole thing would be over," Rawlings-Blake said. "If any of the officers believe that they have been negatively impacted, they can opt out of the settlement and face civil liability individually."



    I'd like to review the memo on which the (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:39:14 PM EST
    City Attorney based his/her conclusion the statutory cap on damages (Maryland state law) is inapplicable to any civil lawsuit Gray's legal heirs may have chosen to file against the officers and/or the entity that employed them.

    I assumed this was a payoff to prevent (1.00 / 1) (#143)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 02:01:06 PM EST
    the Gray family from filing a lawsuit.  If it protected the officers from legal liability it might be a good deal. But since it doesn't,  the amount of the payout and timing looks ridiculous.

    As for keeping the trials in Baltimore, it's going to be difficult to weed out the stealth jurors. Keep in mind there could be as many as 6 trials.  Should be interesting.  


    Trying to Follow the Logic Here (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 03:29:33 PM EST
    Moving one of the most televised events of 2015 to another venue, they would make it easier to weed out jurors who ?

    How so ?


    "Stealth jurors?" (none / 0) (#147)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 02:14:34 PM EST
    Tell me something, is this a worry for you with all jury trials or just the ones where police officers are on trial?

    The settlement protects the officers from civil liability, being as the civil cases are decided on the lower threshold of "preponderance of the evidence." We also know that being found not guilty in a criminal proceeding is no guarantee of not being held civilly responsible.

    Know what else could happen?  A guilty verdict in the first trial could result in plea deals for those still awaiting trial.


    I was concerned about the possibility of (none / 0) (#149)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 02:28:11 PM EST
    stealth jurors in the Zimmerman, Casey Anthony and Scott Peterson trials.  

    Will these trials  happen, more or less, at the same time?  Another concern is the jurors in one trial hearing about evidence, verdicts in another trial.  


    So...only the high profile cases, then? (none / 0) (#150)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 02:49:30 PM EST
    It is up to the state's attorney's office to schedule these trials.

    I would not think it likely for more than one trial to take place at a time.

    How do you prevent potential jurors in succeeding trials from following a current proceeding?  I don't think there are going to be many people who aren't following it - and that will be true around the entire state, I think, not just in the metro area.  So even if the second trial is moved to, say, Washington County, there's no guarantee that potential jurors there won't be well-acquainted with the evidence and testimony taking place in Baltimore.

    I would guess voir dire would address those questions as the successive trials come up.


    I tend to follow high profile cases (none / 0) (#158)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 03:13:42 PM EST
    they are the ones with the media coverage that can create bias.  

    In the West Memphis Three case, a juror in one of the trials found out about the guilty verdict in the other trial but didn't disclose that until years later.  

    Whatever the situation, it won't be perfect. I would just like the city to keep justice in mind, not public opinion.


    You know, McBain, for someone who's ... (none / 0) (#174)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:06:30 PM EST
    ... imploring us to "keep justice in mind" in this case, you appear to have already concluded that the fix in in.

    I love a good conspiracy theory (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:18:15 PM EST
    but I'm not sure there's a "fix" in play here. I just think certain people care more about their public perception than the right of the officers to receive a fair trial.

    Well, I don't like conspiracy theories, ... (none / 0) (#189)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 06:19:37 PM EST
    ... for the simple reason that most all of them are nothing more than agenda-driven spin, which often nakedly appeals to people's worst fears and instincts, and is further overly reliant upon unsubstantiated suppositions.

    And that's exactly what you're doing here, when you offer your opinion that the city of Baltimore is doing everything in its power to convict these policemen of Freddie Gray's homicide. Based upon what, exactly -- the city's willingness to settle with the deceased's family and thus avoid protracted litigation and a potential civil trial?

    If you're at all interested in justice as you so claim, then let this case play out per the due process of law, and allow people to do their jobs. There is a highly qualified judge who's overseeing the criminal cases, and the defendants have some very competent attorneys representing them. They don't need your assistance, and all you're doing right now is adding to wealth of hyperbole and misinformation that's already out there.



    My favorite conspiracy theory (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 06:41:02 PM EST
    is Stanley Kubrick filmed the fake moon landing.  There are some interesting documentaries about that very subject.  One guy is convinced we did go to the moon but we faked the footage to hide what was really there..  

    As for your posts....   it must be such a drag living in so much fear.  You're afraid that someone might listen to an opinion you don't like.  You need to get over it.  I'm going to continue to post comments about this case and many others.  I don't come here to talk about Donald Trump's immigration policy or Hillary Clinton's email server.  I'm into high profile cases... and this one is shaping up to be highly entertaining.  I can't wait for the trials.


    hell (none / 0) (#129)
    by CST on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 12:32:49 PM EST
    they kept the Tsarnaev trial in Boston.

    I can't imagine anyone having a better case to move than that.


    I was thinking (none / 0) (#131)
    by sj on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 12:46:38 PM EST
    the very same thing, and even started a comment noting that. Then I realized I would have just been feeding it.

    Smart of you to address your comment to Anne.


    it's the idea (none / 0) (#135)
    by CST on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 01:05:01 PM EST
    that when every little thing doesn't go their way it must be a vast anti-cop conspiracy...

    When at the end of the day these things rarely go that way for anyone.


    And that was a mistake too (none / 0) (#173)
    by McBain on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 05:02:03 PM EST
    Let's hope so (none / 0) (#126)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 11:59:22 AM EST
    Seems like the city of Baltimore is doing everything they can to convict these cops.

    From your keyboard to God's USB port...

    A couple of convictions might turn this videos-of-police-brutality-epidemic around.  And even if it doesn't, it will take a few brutal cops out of action.


    American Horror Story - Hotel (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 03:20:02 PM EST
    first trailer

    OH. My. God.

    ... a lynching, which implies that their intent all along was to kill her. The Think Progress post to which you've linked doesn't say that.

    Rather, this incident certainly highlights the authorities' inability to cope effectively with people who are obviously mentally ill without ultimately resorting to the use of physical force, which in this case proved to be lethal.

    And that's the real tragedy here. For all the money we spend on law enforcement and corrections, surely we can direct the officials in charge at these agencies and departments to use some of those funds to employ a few mental health specialists at their facilities.

    Had there been qualified personnel at Fairfax County Jail who had both the training and experience to deal with someone in mental distress like Ms. McKenna, this incident could have at least been mitigated, if not avoided altogether.

    But then, why do the right and sensible thing, when there are armored personnel carriers and riot gear to be purchased with taxpayer dollars?


    Steelers v. Patriots (none / 0) (#195)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 07:12:29 PM EST
    As a Ravens fan, is it wrong to hope that both teams lose somehow? Other than the Dallas Cowboys, I can't think of two other teams that I dislike more.

    Dallas Cowboys (none / 0) (#196)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 07:20:03 PM EST

    America's Most Hated, lol.

    Especially if your team is Big Blue!

    Like the Patriots though, they just win, with all types of styles
    Defense, Offense
    Belichek is the Master
    Wish the Giants never let him go,
    That is the history of Big Blue, they let their great assistant coaches go
    Landry and Lombardi were assistant coaches under affable head coach Jim Lee Howell.  Standard history says that Howell delegated the offense to Lombardi, the defense to Landry,  them alone, leftand allowed them to be geniuses.

    An old story goes that a visitor in the Giants' offices saw Landry studying film in one room, Lombardi drawing plays on a chalkboard in another, and Howell reading a newspaper in a third.


    I lived in Fort Worth, Texas (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 07:27:42 PM EST
    off and on over 17 years and was proudly NEVER a Cowboys fan.

    Clinton's polling challenges (none / 0) (#204)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Thu Sep 10, 2015 at 08:53:19 PM EST
    Whether she did right or wrong or legally or illegally in the email situation, Clinton's numbers against Sanders and numbers against Republicans are falling signficantly.

    Somewhere between 5 and 25% of the population has begun to lose trust in her.

    I am suspecting that her campaign is lost . . .

    do you prefer Sanders, Biden or one of the repub?

    It would be hard for me to wish to support most of the repubs, but I might be happy with Rand Paul  . . . who probably can't get the nomination . . .

    Sanders v Trump


    Sanders v Cruz

    Oh . . . boy . . .

    Donald, I hope your trip to Bend (none / 0) (#205)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 11, 2015 at 02:20:17 PM EST
    goes well. But be careful. That is in the southern end of Big Foot range and I hear they are very territorial. ;-)

    And thanks for the update on LAX weather.... Having done a ton of business there during my working days I got interested in just how often I had been at LAX and I pulled up some business records still on my computer and I discovered that between mid '94 and mid 2003 I had either taken off or landed 376 times. That doesn't count the numerous connecting flights to such places as Hawaii and Guam or anything prior to mid '94 when my Apple crashed and wiped all records and I never transferred them...so 500 plus is probably a good figure. So when I wrote "fog is fairly unusual at LAX" that causes long delays I obviously didn't have a clue.

    Site Violator (none / 0) (#208)
    by fishcamp on Sun Sep 13, 2015 at 11:35:40 AM EST

    how about a new open thread (none / 0) (#209)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Sun Sep 13, 2015 at 01:26:21 PM EST
    It is Sunday morning almost noon

    this is a thread from last Wednesday; is that normal?

    In the news, there is the case of the boy charged with assault for kissing a girl, and there is also
    a man on death row in OK whom Helen Prejean believes to be innocent and whose conviction she believes was based on the lies of a cooperating witness.