Media Misidentifies Riverside Shooter

Shades of Sandy Hook, when the media, in its rush to be first,
misidentified Adam Lanza's older brother Ryan as the shooter.
It went viral, with photos, his FB page, the whole 9 yards. He lived in New Jersey and had nothing to do with Sandy Hook.

The Daily Beast just made a similar mistake, posting a photo of Syed Syed Raheel Farook and identifying him as the shooting suspect.

There are two men named Syed R. Farook who work for the County of San Bernadino. One is a restaurant health inspector. The other works in a tax department. They happen to be brothers. The health inspector is Syed Rizwan Farook, age 28. According to the latest press conference by San Bernadino Police around 10:15 pm PT last night, Syed Rizwan Farook, Syed Rizwan Farook (DOB 6/14/87), not Syed Raheel Farook, is the suspected shooter and is now dead. The other dead suspect is his wife or girlfriend, Tashfeen Malik (DOB 7/13/86).

Four hours after posting the wrong brother's photo and labeling him the suspected shooter, the Daily Beast removed the photo from the article and at the very bottom of its article adds:

UPDATE 12/3/15 1:04 A.M. An earlier version of this story identified one of the San Bernardino shooters as Syed Raheel Farook. We sincerely regret the error.

Of course, that does little to help Syed Raheel Farook, whose photo, as well as his wife's, has now spread all over FB and Twitter.


The Daily Beast wasn't the only media outlet to post misinformation. Some reported both brothers were shooters. Almost all reported the shooters were men.

Other mis-identifications: Tashfeen Malik was reported by several outlets, including the LA Times, NBC and Fox News to be "Tayyeep Bin Ardogan, a 28 year-old Qatar citizen." None seemed to find it odd that the President of Turkey is named Recep Tayyip Erdogan. (He was in Qatar yesterday.) Also, "Bin", like "ibn" is a "nasab" that means "son of" in Arabic. Erdogan is not an Arabic name. He has also been criticized for promising to bring back the Ottoman/Arabic alphabet to Turkey, which since 1923, has been using the Latin alphabet.

The LA Times recanted, with Rick Serrano noting the San Bernadino police deny every releasing that name. But Serrano and others initially said they got the name from the police. Clearly it was a hoax, how could they not have realized that? And if the police didn't release the name, where did the media get it and why did they believe it?

< Multiple Shooters Suspected in San Bernadino Killings | Oscar Pistorius Now Convicted of Murder >
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  • Display: Sort:
    What About the Third San Bernadino Shooter? (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by RickyJim on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 10:31:30 AM EST
    What was the origin of that story and why did it suddenly disappear?

    It originated in the first hours following ... (none / 0) (#3)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 11:38:25 AM EST
    ... the shooting, after initial eyewitnesses reported seeing three suspects. But as Jeralyn often reminds us, emotional trauma and immediate confusion can often render such eyewitness accounts unreliable, because survivors from the Inland Regional Center's auditorium, where the party was held and shooting took place, later reported seeing only two gunmen and not three.

    It was further compounded when, according to KNBC-TV News this morning, officers chased and detained a guy who may have merely been walking on the wrong street at the wrong time when the police finally caught up to Farook and his wife, and who (quite understandably) panicked and ran away from the scene at the first exchange of gunfire. We'll undoubtedly learn more as investigators try to figure out what exactly happened here.



    Well, One Media or Even Three Outlets... (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 03:07:51 PM EST
    ...is not 'The Media'.  Hundreds, if not Thousands didn't do anything wrong, and should not be wrapped into one entire grouping of horse's a$$es.

    Blaming 'The Media' for the fault of a couple culprits is complete non-sense.

    And while I am not defending them, they didn't pull the name out of hat, someone feed them that name and I think in cases like this, where wrong people are identified, the source should be printed with the retraction.

    I echo that (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by ruffian on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 03:32:16 PM EST
    The police should be only talking officially for the record and not feeding people names behind the scenes. It has to stop. These situations are way too volatile when names can spread like wildfire via social media.

    Agreed. (none / 0) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 06:13:41 PM EST
    If you as a law enforcement agency's community relations spokesperson don't know and can't confirm on the record, then you should not speculate off the record. Yesterday's situation was already emotionally draining for those families and friends who had loved ones in those buildings. Why further contribute to their stress and confusion?

    Having identical (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Redbrow on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 05:45:56 PM EST
    First and last names as well as middle initial makes it very understandable as to how their was a misunderstanding.

    I wonder if their father was a fan of Newhart.

    "This is my brother Darryl and this is my other brother Darryl."

    Tayyeep Bin Ardogan (none / 0) (#2)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 11:14:04 AM EST
    Ya, I saw that name yesterday and thought someone was making a joke, considering Tayyip Erdogan's name has been n the news so much lately...

    I thought (none / 0) (#4)
    by NYShooter on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 12:43:07 PM EST
    all three were wearing combat gear, no?

    Why would a parent (none / 0) (#5)
    by ding7777 on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 01:36:02 PM EST
    name both sons with the same 1st name?  

    You mean like (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Zorba on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 03:01:21 PM EST
    former boxer George Foreman, who gave all of his five sons the first name George?  And one of his five daughters is named Georgetta, and another one Freda George.

    Someone who was hit on the head (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by jondee on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 03:16:31 PM EST
    five thousand times doesn't count.

    "Larry; this is my brother Darryl, (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 03:18:20 PM EST
    and this is my other brother Darryl."

    And we have no idea (none / 0) (#13)
    by Zorba on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 04:22:44 PM EST
    what Syed Rizwan Farook's father, who was born and raised in Pakistan, went through when he was there.
    Nor if there was some family or religious significance to the name Syed.

    Well according to his ex's notes (none / 0) (#14)
    by smott on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 04:31:03 PM EST
    Re the divorce, he was angry all the time, drinking during the day and hitting her, and her statement included that the son had intervened on one occasion, to protect her. Not sure which Syed she was referring to.

    And that would have been (none / 0) (#16)
    by Zorba on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 05:01:23 PM EST
    after both his sons were born and named, if one of the sons had tried to intervene.
    What is the relevance of that regarding why he may have given the same name to both of his sons?

    You are thinking in Western... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by sj on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 04:14:37 PM EST

    Globally speaking, not all surnames are the last name, and not all given names are the first.

    Frankly, I wish our forms specified surname rather than last name, and "given" rather than "first" name.


    To avoid that annoying (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 04:22:28 PM EST
    Thing that always happens when you call a kid their siblings name.   Happens with my dogs all the time.

    Your dogs are always getting your kids' names (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 02:06:42 PM EST
    mixed up? How embarrassing!

    My wife named our new puppy, Pepper (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 09:46:25 AM EST
    My name for her is more apropos, Devil Girl, R.Crumb's vision of female terror.

    You would think by now (none / 0) (#15)
    by McBain on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 04:56:11 PM EST
    most people wouldn't trust early media reporting.  It's amazing how gullible some are.

    ... yesterday's suspected assailants Syed Rizwan Farook and his wife lived in the city of Redlands, which is immediately adjacent southeast to San Bernardino, and not in Riverside, which is about 15 miles further south and a 30-min. drive via I-215.

    Further, San Bernardino and Redlands are to Riverside, as Denver and Centennial are to Boulder. That is, while all three are nearby one another, they are nevertheless entirely different cities. And in this case, Riverside and San Bernardino are also the respective names of two adjoining counties.


    As I was watching yesterday afternoon's local TV coverage online, I saw a KNBC News reporter interview Ryan Reyes, 32, who earlier that morning had dropped off his boyfriend, Daniel Kaufman, at the Inland Regional Center, where he ran the coffee shop downstairs in Building 3.

    During that interview, Ryan shared with the reporter the news he had received only minutes earlier from his cousin, who had apparently heard from one of Daniel's co-workers that while he had been shot in the arm during the attack, Daniel was being treated at a nearby hospital and his wounds were not life-threatening.

    Sadly, Ryan's noticeable relief proved premature. This morning, after spending most of last night in an ongoing but unsuccessful attempt to determine which hospital had been caring for Daniel, he and his family instead received confirmation from Daniel's aunt (who had adopted him as a child after his parents' deaths) that in fact, Daniel had been one of the 14 people who were killed yesterday.


    The mystery of motive deepens. (none / 0) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 07:00:42 PM EST
    A U.S. Dept. of Justice official confirmed that Syed Rizwan Farook had been in contact with four people who were on the FBI's watch list, although he cautioned that federal law enforcement officials did not consider any of those four as "significant players on our radar." And on the other hand, the Iman at the Riverside mosque where Farook had been a member said that he had stopped attending services there over two years ago.

    yes (none / 0) (#23)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 07:14:01 PM EST
    such a mystery



    And your point is -- what, exactly? (none / 0) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 07:39:56 PM EST
    That you already have yesterday's events all figured out -- or that henceforth, anyone with an Islamic-sounding name should automatically be placed under public suspicion as a possible jihadi?

    Nice job on the strawmen. (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 08:14:07 PM EST
    Well (none / 0) (#28)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 08:22:14 PM EST
    It has been released that he was on ISIS websites online, and corresponding with terrorists.

    There is still a lot more information to gather, and really there is no immediate need to publicly announce anything. Just satisfies those locked in their camps, calling Dear a Christian terrorist ( although I think he was mostly nuts) , and Farook a home grown ISIS terrorist.

    And I say , I do believe thats what this was. Most terrorist experts have pronounced it was only a matter of time, and frankly all the recent ISIS terrorist press most likely gins up home grown terrists to act.


    Dear (3.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 08:35:42 PM EST
    was not nuts. He frankly was one of the people that took to heart the GOP's message about Planned Parenthood and decided to take action into his own hands. He's no more nuts than Eric Rudolph is.

    If ISIS can inspire terrorism from a far why can't the GOP's rhetoric inspire terrorism here too?


    Lol (none / 0) (#30)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 08:42:07 PM EST
    Nah, he just loved living without electric, plumbing and water, and remember to keep a metal roof over your head.


    Farook is a scary case, worked a County job, quiet, married, a new baby, I find it hard to call him crazy, but taking religious fanaticism to this extent is crazy, but no one would know. His father, brother in law, co workers, no one knew what was coming.
    That is scary. No one who knew him could say after the fact that they saw this coming.
    Our intelligence and security professionals have their work cut out for them


    Wouldn't it be nice if they were crazy? (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 09:58:05 AM EST
    Wouldn't it be nice if they were mad?

    Unfortunately, according to this ex-CIA shrink, they're not.

    After leaving the CIA, I was happy in my naive belief that I had left all that behind me. But after 9-11, like everyone, I wanted to do something. What people were saying about the perpetrators shortly after the attacks was simply not consistent with my own experience. I began to apply the principles of evidence-based medicine to terrorism research, because there really was no data on the perpetrators. There were theories, opinions, and anecdotal evidence, but there was no systematic gathering of data.

    I started gathering terrorist biographies from various sources, mostly from the records of trials. The trial that took place in New York in 2001 in connection with the 1998 embassy bombing, for instance, was 72 days long and had a wealth of information, 9,000 pages of it. I wanted to collect this information to test the conventional wisdom about terrorism. With some 400 biographies, all in a matrix, I began social-network analysis of this group.

    As a psychiatrist, originally I was looking for any characteristic common to these men. But only four of the 400 men had any hint of a disorder. This is below the worldwide base rate for thought disorders. So they are as healthy as the general
    population. I didn't find many personality disorders, which makes sense in that people who are antisocial usually don't cooperate well enough with others to join groups. This is a well-organized type of terrorism: these men are not like Unabomber Ted Kaczynski, loners off planning in the woods. Loners are weeded out.  early on.

    Of the nineteen 9-11 terrorists, none had a criminal record. You could almost say that those least likely to cause harm individually are most likely to do so collectively

    Agreed (none / 0) (#89)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 10:24:17 AM EST
    Loners like  Unabomber Ted Kaczynski, Raymond Dear, are maladjusted, cannot cope with society, hav epersonality disorders, are nuts.

    Those practicing jihad all join a cause, work together, and like this ex CIA shrink says

    I didn't find many personality disorders, which makes sense in that people who are antisocial usually don't cooperate well enough with others to join groups. This is a well-organized type of terrorism: these men are not like Unabomber Ted Kaczynski, loners off planning in the woods. Loners are weeded out.  early on.

    Of the nineteen 9-11 terrorists, none had a criminal record. You could almost say that those least likely to cause harm individually are most likely to do so collectively

    You are (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 01:18:00 PM EST
    invested heavily in trying to convince yourself that people like Dear, Rudolph etc. were mentally ill.

    All it takes for people to act out like that is a leader who convinces them that they are doing the right thing. Dear obviously bought what Carly was selling. Rudolph bought into the Christian Identity movement and its leaders. History is full of these types of people. They are perfectly sane but foolishly chose the wrong people to listen to and then act on the statements made by the leaders.


    Clearly, he must have (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Zorba on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 01:53:18 PM EST
    gotten his MD and completed a five-year psychiatry residency program, as well as a forensic psychiatry fellowship.

    I'm not a psychiatrist (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 03:46:02 PM EST
    And I don't play one on blogs.

    But I have been amused by the idea that because someone lives without modern conveniences they are mentally ill.

    Horse pucky

    I currently know a couple of people who do not have electricity or indoor plumbing.  Even when I lived in LA I knew such people.   In fact my pot dealer for years lived in what could accurately be called a mud hut.   He was an artist with a serious rep and works in museums.  Topanga Canyon is full of such people.   It's the only place in the LA area without building codes.  Or at least they are not I forced.

    People who choose such a life are eccentric.  Odd perhaps.  Annoying almost always.  Often brilliant.  But they are not mentally ill.
    And probably would be smart enough to not diagnose mental in blog comment threads illness based on TV reports.


    Interesting data from Census Bureau (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by MO Blue on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 04:24:38 PM EST
    As it turns out, a lot of people. According to the latest American Community Survey, nearly 630,000 occupied households lack complete plumbing facilities, which means that they are without one or more of the following: a toilet, a tub or shower, or running water. The Census Bureau says that the average household contains 2.6 individuals, which means that today, in 2014, in the wealthiest nation on Earth, upwards of 1.6 million people are living without full indoor plumbing.

    Not sure if I have said this before (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 05:07:03 PM EST
    Not something that comes up often but I grew up in a house with no indoor plumbing,  my parents never had one until I had left home.  Of course it was not an eccentric lifestyle choice it was purely economic.  And if course that was almost 50 years ago but even then it was pretty uncommon even here.   There wasn't more than a handful of kids in my school, which was large by local standards, in similar situations.   Seems a bit like a dream now.   I don't remember feeling particularly deprived or being treated unkind by other kids for it.   It's just how things were.   It always gave me the feeling I had a leg up on most when the zombie apocalypse hits.

    Those census numbers surprise me.   I'm fairly sure there are very few of those people making a lifestyle choice either but just trying to be.


    My Mistake (none / 0) (#100)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 06:49:19 PM EST
    He's fine


    o neighbors, it looked like a "moonshine shack," a little yellow wooden hut, with overgrown weeds and no power or indoor plumbing, banged together by its owner, Robert Lewis Dear Jr.

    And whenever Dear came to stay in his shack in the woods, the neighbors in Anderson Acres, a community of about seven houses along a steep, gravel road here, kept their kids inside.

    "He was the kind of person you had to watch out for," said one neighbor, who asked not to be identified, saying he feared retaliation from Dear or his family. "He was a very weird individual. It's hard to explain, but he had a weird look in his eye most of the time."

    Dear, 57, the man in custody for Friday's shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, appears to have been a malcontent who drifted from place to place in the past couple of years. In addition to the shack, he lived in a mobile home in another town in North Carolina and a camper on a piece of vacant land in Colorado, which he shared with a woman who moved with him from the East Coast.

    Some who knew him found him unremarkable, while others said he seemed delusional and aggressive. He had a history of run-ins with neighbors and police, including arrests for cruelty to animals and being a "peeping Tom." He was not convicted in either case.

    "It's just too devastating, it's just something you can't fathom happening," Pamela Ross, who was married to Dear nearly 20 years ago, said in a brief interview Saturday. She declined to comment further.

    Dear's problems with the law date to 1997, when his then-wife reported to police that Dear had assaulted her, according to reports filed with the Sheriff's Office in Colleton County, S.C., where Dear lived at the time. She declined to file charges against him but told police she reported it because she "wanted something on record of this incident occurring."

    Colleton County police released reports of at least seven other incidents where Dear had disputes or physical altercations with neighbors or other residents.

    "He complained about everything," said the neighbor. "He said he worked with the government, and everybody was out to get him, and he knew the secrets of the U.S.A. He said, `Nobody touch me, because I've got enough information to put the whole U.S. of A in danger.' It was very crazy."

    But there are two subjects that never came up:

    The suspected gunman's neighbors in Black Mountain said Robert Lewis Dear kept mostly to himself. But James Russell said when Dear did talk, it was a rambling combination of a number of topics that didn't make sense together and he tended to avoid eye contact.

    "If you talked to him, nothing with him was very cognitive," said Russell, who lives a few hundred feet down the mountain.

    Two topics Russell said he never heard Dear talk about were religion or abortion.

    As many many criminal cases prove (none / 0) (#93)
    by jondee on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 02:15:39 PM EST
    it's not hard to troll around and come up with A psychiatrist who will be more than happy to bolster all your preconceived notions with his expert opinion..

    Speaking of weeding out.. (none / 0) (#92)
    by jondee on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 02:10:14 PM EST
    How did the American Psychiatric Association fail to weed out the Fort Hood shooter?

    Whether Dear an official (none / 0) (#94)
    by jondee on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 02:28:42 PM EST
    member of an organized group or cell is somewhat beside the point..

    The intimidation and demonizing and stigmatizing that the anti-abortion crowd engages in creates an internal pressure that's sure to bring the Dears of the world to the surface..

    It's done it before and it'll do it again.


    Whether Dear was.. (none / 0) (#95)
    by jondee on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 02:30:09 PM EST
    He may well be nuttier than a squirrel terd (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 06:58:30 PM EST
    But living without modern convinces doesn't make him so.

    Well (none / 0) (#102)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 07:01:47 PM EST
    After multiple posts, I was going with the short version,

    Which also included advising neighbors to put metal roofs overhead to keep the gubmint out!!!

    Hey, if people want to call him sane, fine by me,

    But I don't want him as a neighbor


    he (none / 0) (#103)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 08:14:42 PM EST
    sounds like most of the GOP base here in Ga. Now if you want to call them all insane go ahead. I mean they think the black helicopters are coming for them and that Obama is a not an American citizen. So if you define crazy by that then there's a whole ton of them here in GA.

    I don't want any of the angry (none / 0) (#104)
    by MO Blue on Sun Dec 06, 2015 at 08:16:25 AM EST
    Gun stock piling people that are all too abundant in this country as my neighbor either.  The peppers, the end timers and people who think shooting blacks for sport or promote genocide against Muslins and their families - the kill them all and let God sort it out after they are dead would not be my idea of good neighbors. Of course, years ago I did have a neighbor threaten to shoot my 8 year old son because he knocked down the primitive snow fort that his sons built. Having too many guns around seem to rot the brains of many men in this country.

    While he may not have talked religion with his neighbors, he did read the bible from cover to cover, supposedly wrote end times, repent and be saved messages on social media and reportly said "no more baby parts" as justification of his actions after he was captured.


    Do you (3.67 / 3) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 08:57:30 PM EST
    understand the definition of mentally ill? Living without all those does not make one mentally ill despite your desperate wish to make it so. Eric Rudolph also lived with out electricity etc. He obviously had some sort of contact with the outside world if he was quoting Carly verbatim as she was shooting up the clinic.

    Of course Farook is scary to you. He had the wrong skin color. Apparently terrorism is okay with conservatives as long as it is done but white guys. They always try to come up with the "insane" excuse to try to cover up for white terrorists. And if they are so "scary" to you then why aren't you willing to do something about them getting guns? Because again, you really don't want to do anything about all this. All you want to do is make excuses for white terrorists and wet the bed over dark skinned terrorists. There were more people killed in Newtown than by these guys but yet all we heard were excuses because it's a white guy who did it.


    wow (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 09:13:09 PM EST
    Of course Farook is scary to you. He had the wrong skin color. Apparently terrorism is okay with conservatives as long as it is done but white guys. . . . All you want to do is make excuses for white terrorists and wet the bed over dark skinned terrorists.

    7 strawmen in the space of 50 words - makes me wish i'd bought straw futures


    Speaking of "straw futures" (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by NYShooter on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 12:33:13 AM EST
    You just may be on to something there, kiddo.

    "North Kesteven District Council in Lincolnshire is to become the first local authority in the UK to use straw bales to construct social housing, when they begin a pilot project of two semi-detached properties in West Grove, Martin, this May.....(article is from 1909)


    interesting (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by The Addams Family on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 12:44:45 AM EST
    straw bale is a reasonable choice for some kinds of eco-friendly construction projects - i have a friend who designs & builds straw bale houses, although there are some questions about how well they do in wet climates, even with plaster finish

    Yea (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 09:20:54 PM EST
    Rudolph lived without electricity because he was on the run,
    Dear is nuts, his neighbors all knew he was off,

    Why are you so invested in Dear being a sane terrorist.

    We all have our tribes, our beliefs, but actual events sometimes do not fit into our perfect cubbyholes.
    What Dear did was an abomination, and no matter how often you state conservatives are covering for Christian terrorists, it doesn't make it so. It sounds delusional.
    No matter how many times you say conservatives are scared of brown people does not make it so, it just says volumes about you.
    Islamic terrorists in our country is not a laughing matter, and Farook is  scary because why the hell did he become radicalized? A wife , young child, good job, yes, that is scary.
    My local stationary store is run by a Pakistani (he works for the IRS from 7 to 3 ), has someone open the store for him and he closes it at night after his IRS shift. A common occurrence in America, a hard working immigrant assimilating into this country. He calls me Romney, as we had many political discussions over the past 4 years, and I call him crazy, as he was a big Obama backer. And we always shook our heads at each other, laughing, when would leave the store.
    I am not afraid of brown skinned people, who are Muslim, just those practicing jihad.
    And, by the way, he feels the same way, he thinks ISIS is crazy, and all jihadists, he wants them all killed.


    I'm not invested (none / 0) (#45)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 06:19:43 AM EST
    in him being a sane terrorist. You are invested in him being insane because you can't accept that terrorism can be done by white guys. You are covering for Dear by trying to claim he's insane. Eric Rudolph considered himself a survivalist and lived in the woods before he was on the run. IIRC he planned his terrorist attacks while living in the woods. It's why he was able to elude escape for so long even in between attacks. You have to realize too that he bombed three places.

    you know better than that (none / 0) (#37)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 10:39:01 PM EST
    & no one, harfing aside, can say quite why a few Muslims are drawn to Islamic jihad

    but Occam's razor says, & i will repeat, that the pernicious "workplace violence" meme has been shot full of holes along with 35 unlucky people in San Bernardino

    if that was "workplace violence," then so was the 9/11 attack (violence) on the Pentagon (a workplace), & so were the 1993 & 2001 attacks (also violence) on the World Trade Center (also a workplace)

    evidently we disagree


    Incorrect analogy (none / 0) (#40)
    by shoephone on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 12:03:57 AM EST
    since none of the people who attacked the World Trade Center--either in 1993 or 2001--worked in those buildings.

    or the Pentagon, for that matter (none / 0) (#41)
    by shoephone on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 12:04:30 AM EST
    absolutely right (none / 0) (#42)
    by The Addams Family on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 12:11:37 AM EST
    so that leaves just one explanation for yesterday's "workplace violence"



    Kudos to ex-SNLer Nora Dunn, ... (none / 0) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 07:26:10 PM EST
    ... who lambastes both the NRA and its lackeys in politics and media who embrace and coddle such extremist positions on firearms:

    "I find myself with no patience for the attention-getters who are getting exactly what they want for saying outrageous things, things that awaken the worse in our society. I am tired of all of the pundits on all the networks, including MSNBC who gathered around Donald Trump as if he were a campfire early on, reporting his every word as if he were a prophet. Of course we need to know, but he got more airtime than anybody. They weren't 'exposing' him, they were giving him publicity.

    "I saw Chris Mathews interview Rick Santorum early this week and he gave Santorum free reign in putting forth his everybody-should-have-a gun philosophy, challenging him hardly at all. Is this what we do now on news shows, just give a forum to politicians who represent the NRA?

    "Mathews smiled warmly as the interview closed, as if he was happy to see his old, harmless friend again, but I think great harm has been done by people like Santorum. Why must we allow someone to tell us that 'good guys' should carry guns into taverns, that guns and alcohol mix just like vodka and tonic, that if only more 'good guys' had guns none of this stuff would happen?

    "Politicians, all of them, should be seriously challenged on their views. Oh, yeah. I forgot. Those are 'gotcha' questions."

    Amen, sister.

    the question (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 08:02:59 PM EST
    that is never answered is how do you know they are a "good guy". I swear these people think it's a John Wayne movie where the bad guys coming riding up wearing black hats. And if you see someone who looks like a terrorist do you get to kill them right away?

    Masked gunman (none / 0) (#31)
    by MO Blue on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 08:53:11 PM EST
    Good guy or bad guy?

    I'd vote for bad guy but evidently white masked gunman are A-o.k. Of course, some white guys have been known to be mass murders.


    Statistically (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 08:57:11 PM EST
    No one runs white guys a close second as far as being mass murderers I believe.   Probably the point you were making.

    Yes, that was one point (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by MO Blue on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 10:48:30 PM EST
    The other point which I really didn't clearly refer to was how is average person supposed to distinguish between a terrorist who will kill you or just some a$$hole who thinks terrorizing people without actually firing their weapon is great fun.

    A neighbor reported one of the latest mass killers to the police when she saw him armed prior to his killing several people. Basically, the police told her it was an open carry state and there was nothing they could do. I can't remember the name of the killer but he did go on to kill several people.

    Once again, these strutting masked peabrains parading around in their masks with their assault weapons just put us more at risk since we don't know when or if they are someone who will start spraying everyone around them with bullets.  


    Maybe, but only if you limited your criteria (none / 0) (#46)
    by ding7777 on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 07:23:57 AM EST
    to the USA and do not count gang related murders as mass murders.

    If you included mass murders in  Africa, Asia, Central America, Middle East, etc. then I doubt if white guys would be the leaders of mass murder


    I thought we were talking about America (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 08:41:48 AM EST

    According to data compiled by Mother Jones magazine, which looked at mass shootings in the United States since 1982, white people -- almost exclusively white men -- committed some 64% of the shootings.

    The examples are infamous. Roof and the Charleston church massacre. Lanza and the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. Holmes and the slaughter inside an Aurora, Colorado, movie theater.

    Black people committed close to 16% of the mass shooting Mother Jones looked at, while Asians were responsible for around 9%. People identified as either Latino, Native American and unknown rounded out the study.

    Speaking of Mother Jones.. (none / 0) (#50)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 10:29:11 AM EST
    they had an interesting article awhile back about the NRA's top lawyer being convicted of murder (with a gun, of course) in the early sixties.

    He was subsequently released post-conviction on a technicality..


    Which correlates with US census data... (none / 0) (#55)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 11:40:22 AM EST
    White alone, not Hispanic or Latino 62.1%
    Hispanic 17.4%
    Black 13.2%
    Asian 5.4%
    American Indian 1.2%
    Native Hawaiian 0.2%

    Oh well then.. (none / 0) (#48)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 10:22:32 AM EST
    lets extend it to gang murders in Russia, Serbia, Albania, and Sicily..



    Don't Forget... (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 11:19:20 AM EST
    ...Iraq over the past decade, Israel, and the continuing drone strikes throughout the world.  I would also think that ignoring WWI & WWI is really giving the white man a pass a whole lot of mass murder.

    Technically Hispanics are white so you have a continent and a half that have been, and still are pretty violent.

    IMO it takes a whole lot of narrowing down to not think us white folks, men in particular, are less violent than all other races combined.


    Looks (none / 0) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 09:10:29 PM EST
    like a bad guy to me. According to the NRA someone should shoot him.

    Dailymail is reporting (none / 0) (#38)
    by Redbrow on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 10:44:19 PM EST
    That  Raheel served in the Navy aand was awarded two Global War On Terror medals.

    The father's name was also Syed Raheel.

    Tashfeen Malik (the wife) (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 10:26:54 AM EST
    Apparently posted a statement in support of ISIS just before the attack.   Being reported on MSNBC.

    Leading to more speculation that she was indeed the "radicalizing influence"


    IMO (none / 0) (#51)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 10:33:22 AM EST
    That would make the abandonment of the child make a bit more sense.

    Since he was hitting up the dating sites (none / 0) (#52)
    by CoralGables on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 10:34:38 AM EST
    pre-marriage, maybe Match.com and Tinder are the best places to find a gun-wielding future spouse.

    Watching a rather remarkable thing live (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 11:39:40 AM EST
    The landlord allowed a herd of press to rummage through the apartment.  Andrea Mitchell trying hard to keep it from going badly off the rails.   With little success.

    "Um...um...let not show the photos of the children.

    The reporter gets very excited about finding a calendar as if the SB attack would be marked on the calendar.  It wasn't.

    Lindsey Graham comes on the phone and says he's never seen anything like this.  "Neither have I" say Ms Mitchell

    Neither have I .  Remarkable

    talk about a Media Horse's Ass award (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by The Addams Family on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 12:51:41 PM EST
    Unbelievable, wasn't it? (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 01:53:41 PM EST
    And why wasn't there still crime scene tape around the house?  Looked like there was still evidence in there that could be gleaned.
    Or did the landlord remove the tape, or a reporter before the landlord got there?
    In any case, the reporters were definitely acting like a bunch of horses' asses.  Taking pictures of family photos?  The grandmother's drivers license?  
    And just generally messing up a crime scene that might have revealed something more.

    I Have a Feeling... (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 03:26:36 PM EST
    ...that landlord is going to have some splaining to do.  I don't know what the legal ramifications are, but if the rent is paid, the heirs should control access and certainly have control over the deceased possessions.

    I wouldn't imagine the FBI is too pleased with the ad hock killer museum either.

    It was interesting to basically view the notion that 'If it bleeds, it leads' on video in real time.  I mean F, like human hyenas fighting for a carcass, they make the paparazzi look like thoughtful and caring folks.


    No kidding (none / 0) (#67)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 04:13:35 PM EST
    The whole thing disgusted me, and apparently shocked a lot of law enforcement types in other cities that were interviewed afterwards.
    I still wonder if there was crime-scene tape around the place.  If there was, our legal commenters can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was illegal for someone not in law enforcement to remove the crime scene tape and bust into the area.
    And if there wasn't tape around the area, why not?  Had the police dusted the place for fingerprints?  Taken away any passports, drivers licenses or anything else that could be of interest (apparently not)?
    Plenty of blame to go around, but the behavior of the reporters and photographers was appalling.  Even the news commentators appeared shocked.
    Well, if there was any other usable evidence there that might have led to any other possible suspects (I doubt there was, but who knows?), it's totally compromised now.

    True (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 04:15:40 PM EST
    Andrea Mitchell seemed downright embarrassed.
    Not easily done.

    I Thought Mitchell... (none / 0) (#71)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 04:24:19 PM EST
    ...was directing the fiasco, I didn't get the feeling she was bothered by it, only interested is making sure her crew didn't miss anything.

    I only watched the first half, it was hard to watch grown folks acting like complete jack@sses.  And even though the suspects committed a horrible crime, it's still their personal stuff and their apartment, not a freak-show for the vultures.


    She definitely was at first (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 04:36:37 PM EST
    But it was a downward spiral.   I didn't watch the link but if it goes long enough you can definitely hear it at the end.  

    Law enforcement had released the scene (none / 0) (#75)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 05:57:44 PM EST
    after executing their search warrant. tHey gave the landlord the list of everything they took.they were done there.

    I don't know what the landlords obligations were to the next of kin of his renters. He may be in trouble there.


    The local LEO's and the FBI (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Zorba on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 03:14:44 PM EST
    did, apparently, release the scene.
    In which case, I think they dropped the ball here and released it too soon.  And some LEO's interviewed in various media also appeared surprised at this.  Not that the landlord broke in and the reporters swarmed all over, but that the scene had been cleared for release already.
    As for the landlord, yes, I do wonder about his response.  If the rent had been paid, why was he breaking into the apartment?  I wouldn't think that it was his responsibility to break in there, unless he had been asked to do so by the next of kin.

    Crime tape? (none / 0) (#74)
    by FlJoe on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 05:01:13 PM EST
    This is a major crime scene, you just don't nail up a piece of plywood string some tape and walk away and leave it to any vandals that might show up.

    This whole episode has had a surreal aspect from the start and it just seems to get stranger as time goes by.


    Indeed, one would have thought (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 05:58:37 PM EST
    that the house would have been secured by a law enforcement officer posted there around the clock.
    If not the local San Bernardino police, then the FBI.
    Someone dropped the ball on this.

    FBI lead stated in his press conference that they (none / 0) (#78)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 06:02:14 PM EST
    finished with the scene. He had no further interest. They had stripped the place pretty clean.

    Not that clean apparently (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by sj on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 06:09:23 PM EST
    They had stripped the place pretty clean.
    If passports and driver's licenses were still there. But seriously the only crime scene I have ever been associated with was a fire at my place of employment that ended up being arson.

    Based on that single experience, I am shocked that anyone would say they were finished with a scene after less than 24 hours  when the crime involved a dozen or more deaths.


    Those passports (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 06:13:10 PM EST
    Belonged to non suspects according to reports of that press fiasco in the apartment

    Did they dust for (none / 0) (#79)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 06:07:13 PM EST
    fingerprints?  There didn't seem to be any fingerprint powder strewn around.

    They dusted for fingerprints at my biz (none / 0) (#83)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 06:41:51 PM EST
    a couple years ago when it was broken into. From what I saw getting usable fingerprints is largely a Hollywood myth. Needle in a haystack does not approach the actual odds.

    Yes, That is What I have Read Numerous Times... (none / 0) (#105)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Dec 07, 2015 at 09:30:37 AM EST
    ...about HPD here, they dust for finger print namely to serve the public because burglaries rarely get solved after the fact.

    They rarely even bother loading them into their system because the process requires an expert, but they dust because the CSI generation them to, and they also believe that every crime should be will be solved.

    And in this case, what is a print going to do, lead them to someone who was in the apartment ?  I would imagine the computer & phone records would be much better source of people they were in contact with.


    Yup. (none / 0) (#106)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 07, 2015 at 04:57:32 PM EST
    I really miss Jon Stewart (none / 0) (#60)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 12:55:11 PM EST
    Would love to see him send up that calendar.

    It was quite a show (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 03:28:16 PM EST
    It was like a tag sale.   With camera crews.   You could hear people laughing loudly.  

    Someone Posted the Link Here... (none / 0) (#68)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 04:13:59 PM EST
    ...see post #61 in this thread.

    My favorite part is when the guy is directed by Mitchel to tell us, the viewer, what kind of computer it is, about 5 times, he begrudgingly goes over and bends down and declares "It's an LG monitor".  

    It was obvious the computer was taken away.

    I would love to see Mitchell retire over that fiasco.


    As I said above (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 04:17:34 PM EST
    It was clear she knew it was careening out of control by the by the time they cut away.

    Yes, it was clear she had not been actually (none / 0) (#77)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 05:59:31 PM EST
    watching before. He spent plenty of time there, obvious the computer was gone. So he holds up the mini-speaker. classic.

    I happened to catch it live too (none / 0) (#56)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 12:33:14 PM EST
    Since I have today off I thought I'd see if there was news. That was fascinating, even knowing that the law enforcement agents had stripped the place already.

    Interesting that the computer was in the babie's room. That does say to me that the mother was on the computer a lot, fwiw.

    Yeah, the reporter getting excited by the calander was funny. As if the FBI would not have taken it if Dec 2 had been circled in red.

    Since then there seem to be a chorus of people concerned that the plac was opened up too soon. Or maybe just concern trolling.


    The Big Mystery (none / 0) (#57)
    by RickyJim on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 12:43:02 PM EST
    Farook's relatives had no idea why the couple burst into a holiday luncheon for Farook's co-workers and viciously opened fire, family lawyers said. Nor did they have an idea the couple had a makeshift bomb lab in the apartment they shared with their 6-month-old daughter and Farook's mother. Nor did they know either of them were radicalized.

    Is this just media confusion or the grandmother really claims that she knew nothing about the arsenal?  Has it been reported exactly where in the apartment the arsenal was?

    MSNBC reported the Arsenal was mainly in (none / 0) (#58)
    by ruffian on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 12:50:28 PM EST
    the garage - a two car garage.

    I had not seen anything g about the grandmother living there. It was only a two bedroom townhouse and one of the bedrooms has a crib and computer and no room for much else. Maybe she slept on the sofa downstairs? I did not see the living room on the media look at the townhouse.


    They just said (none / 0) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 04:39:46 PM EST
    In the news conference that the grandmother lived with them.  So in that case, I to am a little incredulous that she had no knowledge of what else was going on.    

    Otoh she apparently spoke no English and probably could not have done anything even if she wanted to.


    the family (none / 0) (#82)
    by The Addams Family on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 06:21:17 PM EST
    has now lawyered up

    the Farook family attorney reports that the couple met on a dating website - "they had common interests" - & that Farook "liked to work in the garage"

    you don't say


    I have read so much conflicting (none / 0) (#84)
    by vml68 on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 09:55:29 PM EST
    information, it is hard to tell what, if any, of it is true.

    I keep reading the couple "dropped off" the baby with the grandmother which does not make sense if she lived with them.

    I read the grandmother speaks no English but I also read that she worked as a clerk in some office.

    Also, all four guns were purchased 4 years ago. Two by him and 2 by someone else which makes it harder to make the case that the wife radicalized him.

    Multiple people claim that he was a very quiet and mild mannered person but one coworker claims that he got into arguments with one his victims who was Jewish and very pro-Israel.


    "I read the grandmother (none / 0) (#85)
    by NYShooter on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 12:47:25 AM EST
    speaks no English but I also read that she worked as a clerk in some office."


    Right, I believe she worked on the phone as a tech consultant at a Microsoft Help Center.


    Tsk, tsk! (none / 0) (#86)
    by Zorba on Sat Dec 05, 2015 at 07:50:51 AM EST
    Bad, Shooter, bad!  Go to your room!    ;-)

    And Now This (none / 0) (#61)
    by RickyJim on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 01:43:22 PM EST
    Surreal MSNBC video.
    Those passports and drivers licenses weren't evidence?  I have never heard of such a media friendly crime scene.

    In the words of the Immortal Bard.. (5.00 / 5) (#63)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 02:04:21 PM EST