Climate Change Conference

Climate change. The New York Times has this report. On the car radio yesterday, all the nay-saying pundits wanted to do was link it to terrorism. I learned nothing except what a waste of time it is to listen to cable news.

Here's a thread to discuss climate change.

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    Well, if nothing else, maybe this will (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Anne on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 07:18:32 AM EST
    give ol' jim, our favorite climate change skeptic, a place to hang out...and argue with himself.

    There is a difference between being skeptical (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by CoralGables on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 08:49:08 AM EST
    True - I was, perhaps, too kind in my (none / 0) (#3)
    by Anne on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 08:55:59 AM EST
    choice of words, since what really happens is that he works very hard to maintain his denial.

    anne, could you please (1.00 / 1) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 07:59:59 PM EST
    quit making things up?????

    I have not said that climate is not changing. In fact, I have specified that it has been changing since day 1.

    The issue is this. I do not believe that we have man made global warming.....MMGW

    what Carlin says.


    Jim, you're making things up (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by jondee on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 08:18:16 PM EST
    about people making things up!!!!!

    We all know she was referring specifically to your continued comical refusal to own up to the human contribution global warming.


    "The Most Misunderstood Man in (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Anne on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 08:40:25 PM EST
    the World."

    So true jim. (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by lentinel on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 05:40:26 AM EST
    There is global warming, but it is not due to all the emissions and filth we humans, we Americans, have put into our air.

    It is clearly a coincidence that the planet has gotten hotter, according to leftist media. Actually, it don't seem much hotter with the AC on anyways.

    It is clearly the fault of unruly glaciers, obviously influenced by left-leaning media to melt. They are so dumb to be swayed by tree-huggers.

    And that sun we have.
    Beating away at the same pace - ignoring our depleting ozone layer. What a commie! We should get a new sun that is not allied to some terrist faction. We need military action to overthrow the sun, that is for sure.

    All that is needed for the moment are a few more sump pumps.
    And those lunatic fringe islands that are starting to be inundated - they need a few air balloons placed under the wealthier parts of town.

    Sarah Palin, as her State begins to disappear is the only rational person in the country. Drilling is the way to go for sure.

    I'm so against all this left-wing commie environmental stuff that I am running my air conditioners and radiators at the same time just to prove a point. And I have the windows open too.

    And - those forests!
    They are the dumbest things around. They don't read the papers.
    They hear about deforestation and think that is the way to go.

    Rats. Mice. Cockroaches.
    The wave of the future.

    It's time that we stopped the hysteria and relaxed and enjoyed the fruits that God, in its wisdom, hath laid upon it.

    Time's up fellas and girls, the Lord seemeth to be saying.
    Nothing you can do. So, buckle up, light up, and have a nice day.


    Good point about using the A/C, lentinel. (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:20:29 AM EST
    Global warming is easy to solve.  

    And if generating the electricity that runs your air conditioners exacerbates the problem, leaving mother earth even worse off, buy a bigger air conditioner.

    And spend more time inside, watching FOX.


    Actually (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 07:06:13 PM EST
    The Great Pause has now persisted for 17 years 11 months. Indeed, to three decimal places on a per-decade basis, there has been no global warming for 18 full years. Professor Ross McKitrick, however, has upped the ante with a new statistical paper to say there has been no global warming for 19 years.
    Whichever value one adopts, it is becoming harder and harder to maintain that we face a "climate crisis" caused by our past and present sins of emission.



    So (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by FlJoe on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:12:20 AM EST
    you are willing to admit that the climate is changing but you have called all climate studies that point to warming temperatures as frauds and hoaxes.

    Will you finally admit that the climate is on a warming trend as shown by empirical evidence even if you don't accept mankind's contributes it?


    No, I have said that Man Made Global Warming (none / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 07:50:10 PM EST
    is a hoax. And, as I noted above, the warming went on pause 17 years and 11 months ago.

    And every forecast of terrible happenings hasn't happened.

    And even Dr Phil Jones on England's East  Anglia University's  Climate Research Unit -CRU - agreed in what he thought was a private email that was later hacked,

    ....The scientific community would come down on me in no uncertain terms if I said the world had cooled from 1998. OK it has but it is only 7 years of data and it isn't statistically significant."

    Now the date of that email was July 5 2005. 12 years and 5 months later the pause continues. Of course Jones knew the facts and admitted it again.

    I would like to see the climate change happen, so the science could be proved right, regardless of the consequences. This isn't being political, it is being selfish.


    If you would like to see something happen that means it hasn't happened.

    And then we have this from Dr Schneider who said it was okay to lie.

    To capture the public imagination,
    we have to offer up some scary scenarios,make simplified dramatic statements and little mention of any doubts one might have.

    Each of us has to decide the right balance between being effective,
    and being honest."

    - Leading greenhouse advocate, Dr Stephen Schneider( in interview for "Discover" magagzine, Oct 1989)


    What you have is called "consensus."

    Of course consensus isn't science. Learned men once thought the earth flat. Doctors did not believe in germs and "bleeding" was an acceptable treatment for pneumonia.

    Of more recent times we had Phrenology. The science of feeling for bumps on the head to determine the intelligence and character of the patient.

    But the final stake through the heart of the hoax is that it fails to pass these requirements of what is a Scientific Theory.

    "A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on knowledge that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation andexperimentation.[1][2] Scientists create scientific theories from hypotheses that have been corroborated through the scientific method, then gather evidence to test their accuracy. As with all forms of scientific knowledge, scientific theories are inductive in nature and aim for predictive and explanatory force.[3][4]

    What you have is a small "t" theory. It must be accepted on faith.

    So must all religions.


    All that from the scientifically-enlightened (none / 0) (#36)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:39:01 PM EST
    poster who claims the universe was created in six days..

    He can't prove it, mind you..

    And who says at his blog that scientists in general can't be trusted because they "believe things", presumably more than the average person. Or so the theory goes..

    Interestingly, when making that claim, Jim quotes a writer who once said blacks were better off under slavery.

    So much for credibility.


    To Be Clear... (none / 0) (#24)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 12:55:35 PM EST
    ...your actual claim is the Earth is cooling, so yes, you are correct in that you have admitted climate is changing.

    It's funny how you continue to prove the very claims you think you are shooting down.  Like that you are in denial about Global Warming.  Your denial is so deep it's actually reversed into some right wing amalgamation that you should probably refer to as Global Cooling.

    Yeah, yeah, I know an iceberg in the Svalbard is cooler than it was yesterday...


    Scott you continue to make things up (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 07:53:03 PM EST
    which is your juvenile attempt at what??

    I haven't claimed anything beyond that the MMGW so called consensus is a hoax and the warming trend has been on hold from 17 years.


    You do know that any scientist (none / 0) (#37)
    by jondee on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 12:07:47 AM EST
    with half a brain would know that attempting to perpetrate the kind of "hoax" you're talking about would be perfect career suicide..

    If you knew anything about the scientific method you'd know that it's been refined over hundreds of years to expose sloppy thinking, poor methodology, and chicanery..

    So, unless there are THAT many stupid ,mentally unbalanced, and self-destructive scientists in the world, your conspiracy theory (a hoax in itself, if there ever was one), makes no sense whatsoever.

    The trouble is, you attribute all the humbug you subscribe to to the outside world and that's all that you can see.


    Exactly (none / 0) (#38)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 05:33:10 AM EST
    And that is the point

    you're talking about would be perfect career suicide..

    The climate chicken little's have perpetrated a atmosphere where anyone questioning their theory is an outcast. That is not the scientific method, that is the methodology of the Catholic Church hundreds of years ago.

    The recent uncovering of NOAA reducing historical temperature measurements from 50 years ago, and only detected after statistical research is alarming, it appears that Hide the Decline is making a comeback.

    The trouble is, I have taken the time to research real scientists that have a differing viewpoint instead of lapping up the hysteria fed to everyone by the mass media.

    And that after reading the viewpoints of such scientists, again, Dyson, Curry, agree that global warming is a unproven theory.


    Yeah Alll Those Poor Saps... (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 03, 2015 at 06:03:29 PM EST
    ...losing ground in Alaska and the Maldives must be wrong about the rising sea levels and their need for new land.

    A global conspiracy in which Fox News viewers are the only ones who know the truth.


    The problem (none / 0) (#40)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 05:55:04 AM EST
    We are shutting down power plants in this country, putting large numbers of people out of work and on the government dole....


    More than 2,400 coal-fired power stations are under construction or being planned around the world, a study has revealed two weeks after Britain pledged to stop burning coal. The new plants will emit 6.5 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide a year and undermine the efforts at the Paris climate conference to limit global warming to 2C. China is building 368 plants and planning a further 803, according to the study by four climate change research bodies, including Ecofys and the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research. India is building 297 and planning 149. Rich countries are also planning new coal plants. The nuclear disaster at Fukushima has prompted Japan to turn back to coal, with 40 plants in the pipeline and five under construction.


    Another variation on.. (none / 0) (#41)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 10:41:52 AM EST
    the so predictable "any regulation puts people out work and hurts the economy"..

    And we both know, Trev, that if the coal conpanies said worker's wages couldn't be adjusted for inflation, you'd accept that bit of humbug at face value and parrot it here..

    You folks are nothing if not consistent.


    Yeah... (none / 0) (#42)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 12:39:39 PM EST
    ...nice try, we weren't talking about the economy, we were talking about the fools who can't seem to wrap their head around the notion that the Earth is warming because of people.

    Now you are saying that you are down with GW, but we shouldn't do anything because of China and India ?

    Large numbers of people were put out of work in the asbestos and lead paint/fuel manufacturing industries, are you suggesting we should bring them back in the name of jobs.

    You don't have much faith in American ingenuity if you don't think we can't figure out how to created energy with out harming the planet.  We have done it in the past many times, we will do it again as soon at the polluters stop pouring money into campaign of disinformation, the truth will prevail like it did with tobacco and leaded gas.


    Please read up on Freeman Dyson (none / 0) (#43)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 04:53:40 PM EST
    He says everything you do...almost.
    He says global warming is not settled, actually nowadays he is less inclined to believe than ever before.
    All the tales and computer models of Doom And Gloom have proven false, and all these measures being taken are self serving, will do significantly nothing.
    The point of the post, you want us to put Americans out of work, by shutting down coal plants (which can convert to cleaner burning  coal) while the rest of the world is steadily adding coal plants online. How the hell does that compute?
    No, I do not wnat to put American workers on the government dole when the reason presented is "save the world", and the world is steadily adding coal plants online.
    And Dyson also states the American ingenuity and technological advancement will wean us off carbon fuels soon anyway, no reason to force feed the issue before the technology is affordable. It will get there , shortly

    I'll bite (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by FlJoe on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 06:29:32 PM EST
    Why should the opinions of a 90 year old theoretical physicist carry so much weight?

    From yesterday: First I agree here

    The most questionable of these beliefs is the notion that the science of climate change is settled and understood.
    No credible scientist would claim that a complex system such as planetary climate can really be fully understood , but somehow in the very same paragraph he somehow finds "understanding" and "settles on an answer
    Ice ages happened repeatedly in the past, and we are about due for another one to start.

    Then finally he turns into some kind of eco-biologist
    The good news is that the main effect of carbon dioxide on the ecology of the planet has nothing to do with climate. The main effect of carbon dioxide is to make the planet greener[disregard the ocean acidification], feeding the growth of green plants of all kinds[plants that did just fine at pre industrial levels], increasing the fertility of farms and fields and forests[please show your work].
    [my comments].  

    The guy is a has been quack talking smack way out of his field of expertise.


    Keep in mind.. (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 07:25:35 PM EST
    that youre talking to the guy who's been claiming for weeks that the FBI is hot on the trail of Hillary; who says "the net is closing around" Andrew Cuomo; who describes thirty scientists as "renowned" while only mentioning three by name; who  introduces Climate Depot as "the award winning Climate Depot", and who offers up the name of an ex-political dirty trickster-Swift Boater with no scientific credentials whatsoever, as if that somehow bolsters the case he's trying to make.

    Thank you (none / 0) (#46)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Dec 04, 2015 at 08:23:55 PM EST
    For at least reading

    And he is not a quack, but , perhaps you know more than him

    But no one did address the fact that we are putting American families out of work, while other countries are continuing to open NEW coal power plants, many more than we are closing.

    We can't we slowly transition , to keep our citizens fully employed?

    Global Warming, Climate Conference, is a way to transfer money from older more established countries to the rest of the world.

    I just don't feel our citizens, our lower middle class workers should suffer for that goal, while the jet setting elite trumpet the perils of global warming careening all over the planet, let alone the higher cost for heat, which impacts the poor more than anyone.


    There are these scientists (none / 0) (#26)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 05:00:27 PM EST
    I think skeptical would apply to more and more scientists

    Featuring interviews and comments from more than 30 renowned scientists and climate experts, Climate Hustle lays out compelling evidence that devastates the global warming scare.  Film host Marc Morano, founder and publisher of CFACT's award-winning Climate Depot news and information service, leads viewers on a fact-finding and often times hilarious journey through the propaganda-laced world of "climate change" claims.

    The film is the first climate documentary to profile scientists who have reversed their views from supporting the so-called "consensus" position to a conversion to skepticism. The film also profiles politically left scientists who have now declared themselves skeptics of man-made global warming and United Nations scientists who have now turned against the UN for "distorting" climate science.


    Wow, the "award winning" Climate Depot. (none / 0) (#27)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 06:33:27 PM EST
    pray tell, exactly what awards have they won and from whom?

    And Marc Morano is notorious political dirty trickster and ex-Swift Boater with exactly ZERO scientific background, who makes his living fronting for the fossil fuel industry..

    Real credible.



    No, No, No (none / 0) (#28)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 06:55:38 PM EST
    The credible ones are the scientists making the claims,

    Why are you focused on websites and individuals.

    There are scientists who once believed in global warming, now are opposed to the dogma.

    Focus on that


    Don't tell me what to focus on (none / 0) (#29)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 07:02:55 PM EST
    who are you, Bill O'Reilly?

    Bottomline, when you try to foist Swift Boaters, political dirty tricksters, and "the award-winning" Climate Depot on me as credible sources in the realm of serious science, you've already been laughed out of the room.


    No (none / 0) (#31)
    by TrevorBolder on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 07:07:41 PM EST
    Not at all

    I am trying to foist real scientists on you

    Freeman Dyson
    Judith Curry
    Richard Lindzen

    Are ones off the top of my head, and I guess the documentary will have many more.

    You sound like a religious zealot, and you rage at anyone questioning your dogma,

    Which is the opposite of what science is.


    Trevor (none / 0) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 07:54:55 PM EST
    You sound like a religious zealot, and you rage at anyone questioning your dogma,

    Please don't insult religious zealots by comparing them to jonddee.



    Yeah (none / 0) (#35)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:03:56 PM EST
    some of Jim's best friends are religious zealots.

    Shooting down the evil baby-part harvesters..


    I liked that they kept "beeping" (none / 0) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 10:00:18 AM EST
    The President to get him to stop talking, over and over, and he just ignored it.

    If linking it to terrorism (none / 0) (#5)
    by CST on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 03:37:08 PM EST
    Is what causes the right-wing of this country to get on board - then I'm all for it.

    Funny (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 04:07:08 PM EST
    Not sure what Jeralyn is talking about, but the right has vowed not to approve of any climate deal funds.  They are definitely not on-board.

    Kevin McCarthy:

    U.S. House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy says the House will not go along if President Barack Obama tries to commit taxpayer money to support a climate accord reached in Paris.

    He says Congress has the authority to decide how to spend U.S. taxpayer dollars, "and I don't think that's the best use of our money."

    In others words republicans have a blank check to aid in human destruction(wars), but no funds to advance the welfare of humans(climate change).


    The House votes this week on several pieces of legislation aimed at confronting Obama on his climate policies, including taking aim at the administration's controls on power plant emissions.

    World destruction happening because a handful of idiots in America like Fox News way too much.  That stain on the Koch's brothers suits ain't mayonnaise.


    Calling it terrorism (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 04:21:34 PM EST
    Does seem to take some of the responsibility away from the individual.   On one had it was clearly motivated by an agenda and intended to terrorize a group of people for a specific purpose, on the other that could be said of many fatal attacks we don't call terrorism.

    I think one reason some people resist calling it terrorism is that it implies a larger violent and dangerous, and political, movement.  A religious one.  As we know terrorists can only be Muslims.   This is from Jonah the Doughy Pantload-

    Jonah Goldberg: Planned Parenthood and those villainous Christians

    If we can't condemn Islam for Muslim terrorists, why do we condemn Christians?

    I think it's more (none / 0) (#8)
    by CST on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 04:24:02 PM EST
    These changes in the world are one of the causes of terrorism as people fight for control over resources that become more scarce.

    Doh (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 04:28:41 PM EST
    I thought we were in the Planned Parenthood thread

    Why is a Jew defending fundamentalist ... (none / 0) (#11)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 04:55:53 PM EST
    ... Christianistas, who've also proven themselves to be virulently anti-Semitic when given the opportunity? In so many ways, Jonah Goldberg reminds me of homophobic State Sen. Roy Ashburn (R-Bakersfield), who authored Proposition 8 and championed its passage -- that is, until he was caught pants down with a rent boy. These people will tolerate you and look the other way, only for as long as they perceive that you're serving their purposes. Then, they'll turn on you.

    I think that's what (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 05:35:53 PM EST
    He gets paid for.  

    ... as nothing more than "climate hysteria." Yet he also warns us incessantly about ocean acidification, a very real yet under-reported problem which is caused by excessive carbon dioxide emissions, which is also the primary catalyst for -- cue drum roll, please -- climate change.

    Go figure.


    Here in North America we're seeing changes (none / 0) (#20)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:26:17 AM EST
    you hopefully won't on the Islands.

    Plant and tree parasites whose diffusion northward is limited by harsh winters are being less killed off by milder winters.  They are causing a world of hurt to the spruce/pine/fir species.

    But who gives a rip, eh Jim?  Watch More FOX!


    I had two huge beautiful (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 08:55:25 AM EST
    Pines in my back yard when I bought this house.   I have had to remove them both.  Very sad.  I hate cutting down trees.   Druid in a past life I think.

    No, we won't see that. (none / 0) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 11:53:58 AM EST
    Because out here, we're having to confront a gradual rise in both ocean temperatures and sea levels, and the single wettest and most humid summer on record during what's supposed to be our dry season, punctuated by snowstorms on Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa -- in July.

    But, hey, let's please move along, everybody! No climate change here.


    I kind of wonder (none / 0) (#23)
    by Zorba on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 12:29:16 PM EST
    how much your "single wettest and most humid summer on record" has contributed to the spread of dengue fever in Hawaii.  Granted, "only" 100+ "known cases" so far this year, and dengue generally occurs in very tropical regions, but it has been very rare in Hawaii until this year.  It appears that it was brought in by travelers, but what is different about this outbreak that differentiates it from previous, but extremely limited, outbreaks?  
    Wetter and more humid?  What say you, Donald?

    It's a classic quid pro quo.. (none / 0) (#25)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 02, 2015 at 12:57:44 PM EST
    the fundamentalist wing of the Republican base believes a tribalist, expansionist Jewish State is the fulfilment of Biblical prophecy, and the Zionist right wing knows that Republican hegemony means more armaments flowing to Israel and less questions asked about the way it deals with it's neighbors.

    Christian fundamentalists don't have any particular affection for Jewish traditions per se, so much as they see Israel as a necessary conduit for the Second Coming.


    President Obama and John Kerry (none / 0) (#10)
    by KeysDan on Tue Dec 01, 2015 at 04:51:23 PM EST
    were the guests of French President Hollande at the "grand dame" of haute cusine, L'Ambroise, Restaurant Gastronomique. One of the nicest (and most expensive) restaurants in Paris, it is located in the Marais on the Place des Vosges, the oldest and the most beautiful square. Thirty-six symmetric buildings are arranged in a square with a park in the center.  

    It seems to be a favorite of French presidents, President Clinton having been taken to L' Ambroise by President Chirac. The restaurant is not far from the sites of the Nov 13 Paris terrorist attacks. The first stop in Paris made by President Obama was to the Bataclan Theater to leave a flower and pay his respects.