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Saturday College Football Open Thread

Flooding the zone:

California @ Oregon -3, Arizona +20 @ USC, Navy @ Memphis -7, Iowa State @ Oklahoma -24 (4 units), UCLA @ Oregon State +18, Connecticut @ Tulane +7, South Carolina +18 @ Tennessee, Army +17 @ Air Force, Cincinnati @ Houston -9, Iowa -7 @ Indiana, Arizona State @ Washington State -2, TCU @ Oklahoma State +6, Arkansas +11 @ Mississippi, Wisconsin -10 @ Maryland, Florida State +11 (3 units) @ Clemson, Stanford @ Colorado +17, North Carolina State -3 @ Boston College, Syracuse +14 @ Louisville, Central Florida @ Tulsa -17, Illinois @ , Penn State Pick (3 units) @ Northwestern, Duke @ North Carolina -7 (4 units), Vanderbilt +22 @ Florida, Texas Tech +8 @ West Virginia, Notre Dame @ Pittsburgh +10 (3 units), Kentucky +16 @ Georgia, Florida Atlantic @ Western Kentucky -24, Charlotte @ Florida International -17.

Go Gators!

Open Thread.

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    That was quick (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by MO Blue on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 11:38:01 AM EST
    NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- Louisiana investigators are combing through evidence in the shooting death earlier this week of a 6-year-old autistic boy after authorities charged two law enforcement officers in the shooting.

    Col. Mike Edmonson, in a late night press conference Friday, said the two officers were being booked on charges of second-degree murder and attempted second-degree murder in the Tuesday shooting death of Jeremy Mardis and the wounding of his father, Chris Few, in the central Louisiana town of Marksville.
    ...
    Speaking of the body camera footage that was recovered from the officers, he said: "It is the most disturbing thing I've seen, and I will leave it at that."
    Link



    Where's McBain (none / 0) (#14)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 01:44:34 PM EST
    ...with his apology for telling me I was wrong about the culpability of the person who fired the fatal shots, compared to the criminal accusations against the father?

    Parent
    Who cares, really? (none / 0) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 02:00:26 PM EST
    You're never going to get a sincere apology from a wingbat, particularly from someone who's got an obvious fetish for submitting to authority-types, so you shouldn't expect one.

    Parent
    I'm right here (none / 0) (#64)
    by McBain on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 01:26:43 AM EST
    are you talking about this comment of mine from a previous thread....?

    The police might not have known there was a kid in the SUV.  I seriously doubt they decided to "execute" him.  

    We'll have to wait and see if the cops have any blame in this.  If the article is correct, the father has plenty.



    Parent
    Yes, McBain (none / 0) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:14:50 AM EST
    but that's not really what they're complaining about.

    You see,if you don't toe the line 200% of the time you will be attacked.

    Don't expect it to change. Just think, if we didn't have them around we'd have no one to laugh at.

    Parent

    Yes, Jim... (none / 0) (#161)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 10:15:55 AM EST
    ...towing the line of humanity, which includes stray bullets that killed a child, is something we take seriously.

    For folks who condone killing kids, like yourself, there isn't much leeway.  For McBain, it's because he insists in every cop shooting that the cops were in the right, even after they provide the evidence which strongly suggest they were not.  What you do is obscene, what McBain does is apologize for cops who commit crimes, including murder.  Not the same, you condone it, McBain excuses it.
    --------------

    Today they said they probably won't release the body cam footage because it is too disturbing.  But the fact the the two have been charged with murder means that what they did was not in any way police protocol or even legal.

    Shooting from and at moving cars is not something any cop should ever do, this story proves why.

    They also put out that these cops were warrant cops, one was part time and another form another city.  No one seems to know why they tried to pull this guy over as he had no warrants.  And for some reason, speaking to a cop after a shooting doesn't happen like it would with any other person.

    Parent

    McBain was attacked for writing this (none / 0) (#177)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 05:20:15 PM EST
    The police might not have known there was a kid in the SUV.  I seriously doubt they decided to "execute" him.  

    We'll have to wait and see if the cops have any blame in this.  If the article is correct, the father has plenty.

    He refused to prejudge.

    A reasonable adult thing to do.

    You, OTOH, rant and rave and scream for no reason other than someone wants to wait for more facts.

    Typical.

    Parent

    OK (none / 0) (#182)
    by FlJoe on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 05:44:28 PM EST
    so they only set out to execute the Dad, the kid was merely collateral damage, I am sure that will make you apologists feel a whole lot better.

    Parent
    We don't know they set out to execute anyone (none / 0) (#183)
    by McBain on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 09:04:30 PM EST
    CNN reported the marshals called for backup. Why would they call for backup if they were planning on executing someone?  Why would they want any witnesses?

    So many questions.  So few facts.  

    Parent

    Ok (none / 0) (#188)
    by FlJoe on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 05:22:16 AM EST
    they did not have a "plan", it was a spur of the moment execution, does that make you feel better?

    Parent
    This is disturbing: (none / 0) (#190)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 07:29:52 AM EST
    A police body camera recorded the father of a 6-year-old autistic boy with his hands up and posing no threat as police fired into his car, severely wounding the motorist and killing his son, the man's lawyer said Monday.

    Link

    I finally have an answer to the one question I had: if all of this happened after Chris Few and his fiancee had a fight in a bar, where was Jeremy - had they left him in the car, was he also in the bar?

    No, to both.

    Few's fiancee, Megan Dixon, told the Guardian that she'd had an argument with Few at an area pool hall and that the couple left separately.

    Few picked up his son from a relative's house and pulled up next to his fiancee at a stoplight to persuade her to come with him, according to Dixon, who said she refused.

    When the light turned green and the pair pulled away, two marked marshal's cars came up behind Few's vehicle with their lights flashing, Dixon told the Guardian.  

    So, why did Few race away?

    Few feared the marshals because he and one of the men had had a personal conflict in the past, she told the Guardian.

    Not clear how Few would have known which officers were in pursuit, but maybe this is one of those small-town things where there weren't many others it could have been.

    I don't know - I just know that this mentality of reflexively shooting at people has got to stop.

    Parent

    Typical Indeed... (none / 0) (#191)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 09:23:11 AM EST
    ...I was actually defending McBain, and using another poster's phrase, your lizard brain did not pick up on that, apparently.

    Parent
    An arrest doesn't mean much. (none / 0) (#149)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 07:36:03 AM EST
    After the acquittal of Lisa Mearkle here in PA, I'm thoroughly convinced that having a badge does in fact, give you a license to kill, anyone, anywhere you please. Lisa Mearkle murdered a man over an expired inspection sticker and the people of Hummelstown (or Lebanon) let her get away with it. Reading that she was acquitted last week, my stomach churned. I actually wanted to vomit.

    Parent
    Unfortunately, juries tend to give ... (none / 0) (#166)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 11:39:22 AM EST
    ... law enforcement officers a tremendous amount of leeway that's sometimes terrible undue.

    Four years ago, two Fullerton police officers were arrested and charged with murder in the beating death of Kelly Thomas, a local and well-known homeless schizophrenic whom they had wrongly accused of breaking into a vehicle at a transit station parking lot.

    Despite video evidence and eyewitness testimony that the two 200-lb.+ officers had entirely instigated the confrontation with the 130-lb. Thomas, the jury went with the officers' claim that the deceased had posed a threat to them, and found them not guilty after less than a day of deliberations.

    The brutal killing of Kelly Thomas had struck a raw nerve in the Fullerton community, prompting a huge public backlash against the city police department which forced its entire leadership to step down in its wake.

    And the jury's verdict apparently still leaves a very bad taste in the mouths of local residents, several of whom compelled one of the now-former officers to leave a Denny's restaurant in Feb. 2014 when they loudly complained of his presence there, and then roundly denounced him in front of the other patrons and staff.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Did She... (none / 0) (#192)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 09:40:10 AM EST
    ...have a million dollar bond ?  They aren't playing with these two, who I understand weren't even cops in the area, they were warrant servers working part time.

    Cops generally have it easier with juries, but it's not like a cop never has never been convicted of murder.  This issue seems to vary widely depending on location.

    Parent

    Rise of Anti-Knowledge (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by MO Blue on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 11:52:34 AM EST
    The GOP and the Rise of Anti-Knowledge

    In the realm of practical epistemology, the opposite of knowledge is not ignorance but anti-knowledge. This seldom recognized fact is one of the prime forces behind the decay of political and civic culture in America.

    Some common-sense philosophers have observed this point over the years. "Genuine ignorance is . . . profitable because it is likely to be accompanied by humility, curiosity, and open mindedness; whereas ability to repeat catch-phrases, cant terms, familiar propositions, gives the conceit of learning and coats the mind with varnish waterproof to new ideas," observed psychologist John Dewey.

    Or, as humorist Josh Billings put it, "The trouble with people is not that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so."
    ...
    At present, however, a person can be blissfully ignorant of how to locate Kenya on a map, but know to a metaphysical certitude that Barack Obama was born there, because he learned it from Fox News. Likewise, he can be unable to differentiate a species from a phylum but be confident from viewing the 700 Club that evolution is "politically correct" hooey and that the earth is 6,000 years old.

    And he may never have read the Constitution and have no clue about the Commerce Clause, but believe with an angry righteousness that the Affordable Care Act is unconstitutional.
     link

    A long post that contains a lot of food for thought.


    From several comments this week (none / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 12:16:40 PM EST
    I have gleamed that Liberals, actually Lefties but I'll go with the selfie, are supposed to be smarter than Conservatives yet that are loosing the local, state, and congressional elections.

    That says it all. Demos have, twice in a row, cobbled together minority groups, frightened enough whites over Social Security and Medicare and dumber than dirt white, mostly college educated, to elect the worst president in history.

    Can they do it again??

    Only if they can destroy the "outsiders." To that end they have launched an attack of lies on Ben Carson.

    In a story published early on Friday, Politico's Kyle Cheney authored a piece headlined "Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship" with a subhed "Carson's campaign on Friday conceded that a central point in his inspirational personal story did not occur as he previously described."

    There were at least five major problems with the story:

    The headline was completely false
    The subhed was also completely false
    The opening paragraph was false false false
    The substance of the piece was missing key exonerating information
    The article demonstrated confusion about service academy admissions and benefits
    But other than that, A+++ work, Kyle Cheney and Politico.

    It could take all day to parse the problems with Kyle Cheney's now-somewhat-cleaned-up hit piece on Carson, but let's just look at his original introductory claims:

    Even worse:

    Politico stealthily edited the inflammatory headline and lede, after the damage was done. They made changes without adding a note about what was corrected. They didn't update the piece or add an editor's note. The new headline is very much toned down to "Exclusive: Carson claimed West Point `scholarship' but never applied."

    Link

    What we are seeing here is an electronic lynching of a black man who, when he protests about being fitted for a rope, the Left snears and snarks.

    But there is nothing new in that.

    Parent

    Yes we all better shut up right now (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by jondee on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 12:35:33 PM EST
    about holding that social liberal Ben Carson to the same standards of truth and accuracy that the Right holds the secret-muslim Obama, Hillary E-Mail, and "Cherokee Liz", before the confederate-flags-and-shotguns quarter exposes us all for the racists that we are..

    Parent
    Thank you Jim (5.00 / 6) (#10)
    by MO Blue on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 12:55:53 PM EST
    for volunteering to prove without a doubt that Anti-Knowledge
    is on the rise among the GOP.

    It was nice of you to  provide us with a highlights of the Anti-Knowledge talking points of the day.

    Parent

    I Assumed While reading Your Post Above... (5.00 / 3) (#163)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 10:49:36 AM EST
    ...you were baiting Jim and that he wasn't dumb enough to take the bait, much less go out of his way top prove the point.

    Wrong on both accounts.

    Also, and I think this is important, he went out of way to comment, as if he knew it was directed at the GOP.  Kinda proves what I think everyone suspects, they know the difference between the truth and a lie, and choose the more politically convenient lie to define their truth.

    That to me is what is really remarkable about the modern day GOP, they know the what the truth is but because it's not politically convenient, they insist it's a lie.  That, to me is infinitely worse than what you mentioned.

    IOW, it doesn't matter where Kenya is, they know Obama wasn't born there, but that doesn't fit their political paradigm, so they will insist he is.  Trump being the prime example, he dropped the entire bit when it became politically inconvenient, when it was not, he pushed the lie for all it was worth knowing damn well Obama was born in the US.

    Jim, the same, first it was GW doesn't exist, then it was GW isn't related to human activity, now it's the opposite of GW is what's actually happening.  The process is, come up with some BS, when it's proven wrong, come up with different BS, rinse and repeat as many times as needed.

    No one really knows why we invaded Iraq, but I think there were about 10 reason given, each proven wrong, but for some reason, it works, time and time again.  

    An entire party dedicated to optics rather than reality.

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#198)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 10:48:44 AM EST
    Jim, the same, first it was GW doesn't exist,

    The issue has always been the cause. It was the Repubs who first noted that climate change has existed since day 6.

    then it was GW isn't related to human activity,

    There is no acceptable proof that it does,

    now it's the opposite of GW is what's actually happening.  The process is, come up with some BS, when it's proven wrong, come up with different BS, rinse and repeat as many times as needed.

    That's so Lizard Brainish it can't be responded to.

    Try this.

    If we had some ham we'd have some ham and eggs if we had some eggs.

    But among the things that have been proven wrong is the "hockey stick," and about a gazillkion predictions of the earth burning up next week.

    lol

    Parent

    All that I posted is true (none / 0) (#11)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 01:15:04 PM EST
    That you reject truth is your cloak, not mine.

    And while I enjoy listening to Carson stir the water he is not my choice. I don't think he is tough enough or experienced enough running large organizations to be President.

    You know, one of the specific things that I object to the media doing is all the BS over West Point saying that don't offer scholarships. Hooey.

    scholarship: a grant or payment made to support a student's education, awarded on the basis of academic or other achievement.

    A scholarship is exactly what they offer.

    When a reporter plays with words like this they deserve our disgust.

    That you use them speaks ill of you.

    Parent

    You continue to get better and better (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by MO Blue on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 01:25:21 PM EST
    at proving the accuracy of the post and psychologist John Dewey's comment.

    ...whereas ability to repeat catch-phrases, cant terms, familiar propositions, gives the conceit of learning and coats the mind with varnish waterproof to new ideas," observed psychologist John Dewey.

    You have been so indoctrinated with right wing propaganda you can no longer discern the difference between the opinions you parrot and actual facts.

    Parent

    nice quote, MO (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 03:58:57 PM EST
    A family friend, H., a Penn State Philosophy of Education prof, was a big fan of Dewey.  Penn State was across the street from where I lived age 7-11ish.  That's East (or West?) Park Avenue, for anyone who ever lived in State College, PA.

    William James was another of his "likes."  Jonathan Edwards also.  But I, being young and blah blah blah, thought these the fuddiest of the duddiest of studies.  Philosophy of Education?  Worse yet, "American" philosophers?  If I was going to read B/S, it was gonna be European B/S.  What a jerk I was.

    The only thing that saves me from regretting some of the smart-a$$ comments I made to H. back then, was the realization, now, that I basically don't give a rip what younger people have to say.  He was a wiser man than I and we miss him.  The years rush.

    Parent

    ... has long been one that's mutually exclusive, like oil and water. So, go wank it someplace else.

    Parent
    So you claim that that (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 05:19:12 PM EST
    this is untrue and acceptable???

    Politico stealthily edited the inflammatory headline and lede, after the damage was done. They made changes without adding a note about what was corrected. They didn't update the piece or add an editor's note. The new headline is very much toned down to "Exclusive: Carson claimed West Point `scholarship' but never applied."


    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#40)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 05:54:51 PM EST
    agree that this was pretty sloppy on Poltico's part, not that it really changes the underlying story.

    He was never offered a scholarship, that's just not the way it works. I would even excuse him for the original story in his book, a bad phrasing of the recollections of a teenager, that happens. However he has repeated that same "accidental" distortion again and again long after he should have known that it was not true.

     

    Parent

    What I love about this (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 06:00:29 PM EST
    Is that both Carson and Politico look bad.

    Parent
    Howdy, in case I miss you tomorrow, (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by caseyOR on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 06:13:12 PM EST
    I want to wish you a very Happy Birthday. Just one more year until Medicare!

    Parent
    That's (none / 0) (#45)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 06:59:36 PM EST
    pretty much a daily occurrence lately.

    Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I sense a meltdown in the the making it may even be epic.

    Carson does not know how to handle the press, he has pretty much declared all out war with them, labeling even the mildest skepticism as a "pack of lies" and "garbage". Say what will about the press they seem to have a shred of pride left and them's fighting words.

    Granted, having the press as your enemy is a badge of honor among Republicans but you have to be crafty about it and must be able to take a punch.

    Big Ben appears to have somewhat of a glass jaw and he could never match the political smarts of , say a Nixon.

    Ben Carson is a strange dude he knows three things very well; Brain Surgery, his Religion and his own self created myth. He seems unable to even process facts outside of that bubble and quite hostile to anything or anybody that questions his worldview, he does not match up well against the political press if they stay on him.

    Parent

    All true (none / 0) (#49)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 07:46:22 PM EST
    "Carson does not know how to handle the press, he has pretty much declared all out war with them, labeling even the mildest skepticism as a "pack of lies" and "garbage". Say what will about the press they seem to have a shred of pride left and them's fighting words.

    Granted, having the press as your enemy is a badge of honor among Republicans but you have to be crafty about it and must be able to take a punch."

    Carson had a good chance of winning Iowa, but that would have been it. He has become a favorite of the anti politician on the Republican side, along with Trump.

    Best part is the credibility of the press taking a well deserved shot. The internet age , and rush to be 1st is just killing the press.

    Parent

    What it does is put out a false narrative (none / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:17:51 AM EST
    and then shyly back away from it after the damage is done.

    The writer and the editors knew up front they were lying.

    Parent

    No, Jim, I said that ... (none / 0) (#61)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 12:54:09 AM EST
    ... your own veracity with regard to fact and truth leaves one helluva lot to be desired, and that's all I said. As far as Politico is concerned, there's a good reason why Esquire's Charles Pierce regularly references that online political gossip rag as "Tiger Beat on the Potomac," and often claims half in jest that what reads there makes him want to guzzle a gallon of anti-freeze. So in this instance, your taking issue with whatever appeared in Politico is literally the pot calling the kettle black.

    Parent
    So you double down (none / 0) (#69)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:21:23 AM EST
    Well, you will probably reply that you had an uncle that invented a long distance lie detector that has me in its sights....lol

    But just in case, I challenge you to show any lie that I have posted.

    You can't do it. You know it. I know it.

    Parent

    Stop acting like a 12-year-old, Jim. (none / 0) (#90)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 11:20:04 AM EST
    I don't give a rat's a$$ about either Ben Carson, the Politico story about him, or what you're saying about both. But I will say that given your histrionics, both you and your candidate du jour need to grow up and grow a pair.

    Parent
    You accused me of telling lies (none / 0) (#91)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 11:22:29 AM EST
    Now prove it or do the adult thing of apologizing.

    Parent
    You would be correct that you don't lie (none / 0) (#97)
    by CoralGables on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 11:48:37 AM EST
    Someone that has no grasp of the truth doesn't have the ability to lie.

    Parent
    I pan-fry them until they're nice and crispy, before feeding them to my cat.

    Adios, payaso. Try not to clog too much more of the Open Thread with the stupid, because there are others here waiting their turn who actually have something intelligent to say.

    >:-P

    Parent

    Ah, the old "chickenhawk" (1.00 / 1) (#154)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 09:19:14 AM EST
    insult.

    lol

    One more time. I served. You did not.

    That will never change.

    Parent

    One more time (none / 0) (#162)
    by shoephone on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 10:43:27 AM EST
    You've never served in a war. You sat on your butt at a naval base stateside while other people fought and died. You are the very definition of "chickenhawk."

    Parent
    You may not consider (1.00 / 1) (#178)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 05:29:41 PM EST
    those who died during the cold war worthy.

    We who knew them do.

    And no matter what, you, Donald and jondee did less than the least of those in the military.

    And since I have never said what I did all you can do is make up things you have no knowledge of.

    How petty. How nasty.

    Parent

    Another time.. (none / 0) (#169)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 12:56:42 PM EST
    And he also calls thousands of Vietnam vets "traitors" because they had the guts to do what he never had the guts to himself, and because they tried to right a great wrong.

    Parent
    I'm still waiting for that list (none / 0) (#134)
    by jondee on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 05:50:00 PM EST
    of examples of Obama's "extremist agenda" you promised to furnish me with awhile back, Jim..

    Proving once again that in between spouting unadulterated bs, you take time off to blow smoke and hide..

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#136)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 06:26:21 PM EST
    I will just refer you to his record.

    We can start with his "Apology Tour."

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by jondee on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:25:49 PM EST
    I'm still waiting and you're still shucking, jiving, backing down, and hiding.

    Heh

    Parent

    Do you want them dripped out? Okay (none / 0) (#155)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 09:20:57 AM EST
    Leaving Iraq despite the warnings of his military advisers and birthing ISIS.

    Parent
    Yes we adhered to that (none / 0) (#176)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 05:11:08 PM EST
    extremist SOFA agreement. Signed by your hero the Shrub.

    Parent
    Signed by your hero the Shrub. (none / 0) (#179)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 05:34:20 PM EST
    Really???

    If you go to your doctor and he says, "Stop the previous treatment, it was wrong.."

    Do you continue to blindly do it??

    Why yes. Obama and you do.

    How intelligent of both of you.

    Parent

    I'm still waiting for that list (none / 0) (#185)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 10:01:17 PM EST
    and you're still acting like the chickensh#t that we all know you are at heart.

    Parent
    Ha (none / 0) (#7)
    by CoralGables on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 12:22:24 PM EST
    "I have gleamed." Brigadoon. (none / 0) (#57)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 11:25:19 PM EST
    Strike that. The King and I. (none / 0) (#59)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 11:31:05 PM EST
    Sorry, you lost me at (none / 0) (#48)
    by ruffian on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 07:29:55 PM EST
    'Worst president in history'.  But it did try to see your point until then. I won't be trying again.

    Parent
    Then don't. (none / 0) (#71)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:24:43 AM EST
    But facts are facts. Look at the shambles he has created in the ME. The unrecovered economy. The unreformed health care system that still has millions not covered. An immigration police that will change as soon as he is gone.

    Outside of Obama and Hillary I know of no other Demo that could elect Donald Trump.

    Parent

    Funny... (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 11:22:44 AM EST
    ...care to expand on 'unrecoverable economy', why exactly did it need recovering ?

    FWIW, the GOP has punted immigration, that is their job and Ryan ensured they don't have to deal with it until after the election, which seems to be the GOP Congressional anthem, 'Let Others Deal with Real Problems".

    Where are they on ISIS and the ME, I know complaining that Obama has it all wrong, but won't vote one way or another, so he is forced to use the 2002 AUMF, which to me is very problematic.

    You guys are real good at complaining, not so good at actual governing.

    Parent

    The word was "unrecovered." (none / 0) (#180)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 05:39:14 PM EST
    That means it has not recovered during Obama's reign. Family income is less. Percentage of people in the workforce is at the Jimmy Carter level.

    And yes, the Repubs punted.

    And elected Trump.

    You gonna love it.

    Parent

    Recovered From What ? (none / 0) (#193)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 09:47:31 AM EST
    If Obama reign didn't recover it, surely you know whose reign put it in a place in which it needed to be recovered from.

    The notion that republicans think they can run on the economy is simply a side effect of exposure to too much much Fox News.  But please, urge your fellow dimwits to put the economy front and center.

    Parent

    You are (none / 0) (#138)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 06:36:48 PM EST
    a piece of work.

    Feh, you're shouting the same thing Republicans shout over and over hoping they'll come true. You shouted the exact same things when Bill Cinton was president. The economy was horrible blah, blah blah. You might as well be preaching to the choir with all those talking points because the only people that the GOP has any credibility with is their far right base.

    I can't imagine any of the GOP candidates would be tough enough to stand 11 hours of people shouting conspiracy theories at them.

    Parent

    Ga, why do you make things up?? (none / 0) (#156)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 09:37:15 AM EST
    You shouted the exact same things when Bill Cinton was president. The economy was horrible blah, blah blah
    .

    I have never written that and you know it.

    What I have noted is that the NASDAQ, the source of most of the start up Internet companies financing, went into a deep decline in March of 2000 and ran off about 50% by March of 2003 leading some to compare it to 1929. And presenting Bush with a declining economy.

    That's factual. But it was at the end of Clinton's terms and had nothing to do with Clinton per se.

    What Clinton did do that lit the fuse of the bomb that destroyed the housing market was this:

    WASHINGTON, Sept. 29 (1999)-- In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

    The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

    Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

    In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers.

    There were a few who knew what was going to happen.

    ''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.''

    Link

    GA, facts don't go away.

    Parent

    Of (none / 0) (#175)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 03:07:30 PM EST
    course once again you are blaming someone who was out of office for 8 years for something Bozo de Bush did. Do you realize how ridiculous and unhinged you sound when you spout that nonsense? NASDAQ was a completely different and unrelated event. But I know you'll never hold Bozo de Bush responsible for anything and you'll scream and yell and move the goalposts. Anything to excuse Bozo de Bush.

    Parent
    It is instructive to an (none / 0) (#15)
    by KeysDan on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 01:44:35 PM EST
    understanding of the appeal of Carson, and to a lesser extent, with Trump and Cruz, that anti-knowledge (e.g.,facts don't matter) is a sub-set of anti-intellectualism (e.g., no use for facts).

     Carson legitimizes  supporters' bent toward  anti-intellectualism, justifying their derision of matters such as philosophy, science, humanities, and art that do not fit their experience.

     Carson, who studiously presents a personal and professional story of accomplishment, is seen as smart, yet not "contaminated" by education and what is seen as "political correctness," that detaches him from everyday concerns, and particularly, does not threaten their view of a life to be perfected based on faith in the Bible. Look no further for truth, indeed, shy away from other sources.

    It is critical, therefore, that the characterization of Carson as liar, be defended and derailed. Ironically, to show that truth and knowledge are impractical and, even, contemptible, Carson must have achieved and discarded them.    

    Parent

    Kevin Drum has 2 posts (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by MO Blue on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 02:07:17 PM EST
    on Carson. The first is a then and now:

    Ben Carson Seems to Have a Serious Personal Honesty Problem

    West Point
    Mannatech
    Plagiarism
    Violent Past
    Drones on the Border
    The Psychology Test at Yale

    The second:

    Ben Carson and the Tale of Redemption

    Here's the thing: the beating heart of Carson's personal story is about his redemption by God. So he says he had a violent temper as a kid, and then became a new man after praying in a bathroom one day. In fact, God turned him around so thoroughly that West Point offered him a full scholarship. He went to Yale instead, where the Lord took care of his finances when he was in desperate straits. And as a bonus, it was because of his Christian inability to tell a lie.

    Are these embellishments unnecessary? Sure. But Carson knows his audience. Serious evangelicals really, really want to hear a story about sin and redemption. That requires two things. First, Carson needs to have been a bad kid. Second, redemption needs to have truly turned his life around. He was already a student smart enough to get into Yale, so he needs more.



    Parent
    Carson's (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by KeysDan on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 02:37:54 PM EST
    campaign manager (appropriately called business manager) and long-time friend, is Armstrong Williams.

     Williams is a political operative, starting way back as an assistant to Clarence Thomas when he was at the Equal Opportunities Commission.  Williams is a political radio commentator, who got some unsolicited attention back in 2005 when it was revealed that he was on the take with the Bush Administration to push Bush programs in exchange for $240,000.

      And, he was, essentially, a front group for the tobacco industry. Williams professes anti-gay rhetoric, but has, himself, encountered legal challenges, for sexual harassment of his trainer and others.

     Williams claims to have effected Carson's agreements with Mannatech, in which Carson shills for their nostrums--which he denies having done for ten years.    Some have re-named Carson's book, Gifted Hands, as Grifter's Hands. With Williams as business manager, that may have merit.  

    Parent

    Sweet jeebus it was painful enough to get used (none / 0) (#50)
    by ruffian on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 07:50:20 PM EST
    to taking Trump semi-seriously, now we have to deal with this con man too?  Where are the great statesmen like Hermain Cain and Rick Santorum?

    Parent
    Yeah, But... (none / 0) (#164)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 10:58:19 AM EST
    ...those embellishments are forbidden by god.  The idea that they can overlook one sin for another is something I can't wrap my head around.

    Especially considering the one thing the GOP says HRC doesn't have, trust worthiness, yet their #1 or #2 guy lies like it's his job.

    I will never understated people like that, nor do I really care to, I just hope they are nutz enough to vote Carson as their candidate as he is by far the easiest one to beat.  But I am just getting so bothered by people who are living in another dimension, this election no problem, but one of these times they are going to get a lunatic elected.

    Parent

    Sounds like a reworking ... (none / 0) (#18)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 02:02:55 PM EST
    ... of Al Gore's seminal 2007 book, The Assault on Reason.

    Parent
    That was so depressing (none / 0) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 03:26:37 PM EST
    Even more so if you know enough of those people to know how true it really is.

    Parent
    Carson's home, (none / 0) (#26)
    by KeysDan on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 03:36:18 PM EST
    I have a ton of awards (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 04:24:41 PM EST
    ...that I would love to display.  I just don't have that much wall.

    And I don't love Jesus.

    Parent

    But do you (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 04:31:32 PM EST
    Have a cheezy painting of you being "presented" by Jesus?

    Parent
    Doesn't everybody? (none / 0) (#51)
    by Molly Bloom on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 09:09:57 PM EST
    What do you suppose is the ethnicity (none / 0) (#60)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 11:33:57 PM EST
    of this particular rendering of Jesue?

    Parent
    I duuno but a better question is whether or not (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:36:37 PM EST
    The painting is on velvet as opposed to canvas a la Elvis

    Parent
    And the Fact That Ben Carson Thinks... (none / 0) (#194)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 09:58:58 AM EST
    ...jesus was black, or at least the one touching him in the painting is, seems to something that is at odds with most evangelics.

    He is actually a bit darker than Carson.  Maybe he's middle eastern or mexican, but jesus is in no way white in that painting.

    Parent

    Just (none / 0) (#27)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 03:43:37 PM EST
    what I thought, an ego bigger then Jupiter. A humble God fearing man he is not.

    Parent
    That's creepy (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 03:45:18 PM EST
    And a little frightening

    Parent
    The portrait of (none / 0) (#30)
    by KeysDan on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 04:10:43 PM EST
    Carson and Jesus is a little unsettling. The artist has the hands of Jesus out of proportion to his body--about the dimensions of his head.   Maybe a play on big, gifted hands.   And, then there is the Biblical inscription chiseled into the wall with the wrong spelling of proverb. No need to change, probably got an OK.

    Parent
    Btw (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 04:33:17 PM EST
    Claire reminded me less of Mica with every episode.

    Parent
    Omg (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 04:38:11 PM EST
    I didn't even see the misspelling.   Maybe it was intentional.   Part of the whole anti knowledge thing.  

    In any case amazing.

    The best thing to do would be to scratch it out with a fat sharpie and write the correct spelling above it.   It would not look any less cheezy.

    Parent

    Your brain corrects it for you. (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by desertswine on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 05:03:17 PM EST
    God (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 05:09:35 PM EST
    corrects it for Ben.

    Parent
    Poverbs are the part of speech (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by Peter G on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 10:24:27 PM EST
    that describes the action of New Orleans oyster sandwiches.

    Parent
    He's the Ricky Bobby (none / 0) (#135)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 05:54:52 PM EST
    Of Brain Surgery

    Parent
    Took a walk (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 05:34:34 PM EST
    Happy Birthday to you (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 10:12:34 AM EST
    Happy Birthday to you, CaptHowdy, Happy Birthday to you.

    Hope you are enjoying your day. May your day and the coming year be filled with great things big and small.

    Parent

    Happy, Happy Birthday, Howdy! (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by Zorba on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 02:08:11 PM EST
    Hope it's a great one!
    {{Hugs}}

    Parent
    Happy Birthday, dude... (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 02:56:07 PM EST
    And if it seems the years are catching up to you, well, they're catching up to everyone.

    Riff Raff

    Leatherface

    For some reason, google's got me on a Rocky Horror newsfeed.  So, one more.  (lol, he looks like Walter White)

    Parent

    What makes no sense to me is that (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 10:22:46 PM EST
    Carson's claiming to have been this over-achieving high school Army ROTC cadet (I find myself, now, wondering if he really was the rock star ROTC cadet he claims to have been, too), but somehow, he isn't aware of what the process is for gaining entrance to West Point.  Am I to believe that it was never discussed between and among the cadets and their leaders?

    The other thing that bothers me is that when you use the word "scholarship" you are using it in the context of the cost of your education; it means the education comes with a price tag.  You tell someone they're getting a scholarship so they know it isn't going to cost them anything.  Since this isn't how it works in the world of the service academies - no one pays (at least not in dollars - one pays in service), I find it hard to believe that anyone who went through West Point, would even frame the discussion in those terms.

    Why didn't Carson just write that he was encouraged to apply?  That based on his stellar ROTC record, he had a good chance of getting an appointment?

    What was wrong with the truth?  

    I guess that's the question I'd like him to answer.  Why, when there's no question he was a gifted neurosurgeon who saved countless lives, did he feel the need to gild the lily?

    It's the contrast: if you're going to be redeemed, you have to have something to be redeemed from, don't you?  Is that why he decided to paint himself as someone on the wrong track, so redemption was more believable?

    And why was that so important to him - and what does it mean now?

    I think these guys have a couple more months in the limelight, and then they're going to fall off a political cliff.  Then, the real terror begins: the dangerously smooth Ted Cruz is going to rise to the top of this heap, and then it's going to get serious.

    And not in a good way.

    Well, he had the immature (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 11:29:42 PM EST
    brain of a teenager.

    Parent
    The (none / 0) (#66)
    by FlJoe on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:07:55 AM EST
    problem being he was full grown man when he wrote  and repeated the story through the years, recently saying (my emp.);
    The next question is from Bill. He wanted to know if it was true that I was offered a slot at West Point after high school.
    Bill, that is true. I was the highest student ROTC member in Detroit and was thrilled to get an offer from West Point.

    Anne is right, as a big cheese in ROTC he surely had to know the drill, a "slot" in the Academy is a coveted prize, reached only after jumping through multiple hoops. It is the end game of a process, a process he admits he never even started, yet he let's the myth stand uncorrected.

    Parent
    Ben Carson's Blunderful World... (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by desertswine on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 12:11:23 PM EST
    Maybe Carson (none / 0) (#65)
    by lentinel on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 06:21:38 AM EST
    is a special kind of idiot.

    He can do neurosurgery, but can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

    Parent

    And the answer is (none / 0) (#73)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:44:15 AM EST
    Why didn't Carson just write that he was encouraged to apply?  That based on his stellar ROTC record, he had a good chance of getting an appointment?

    Because in his mind he had been offered a scholarship if he would just apply.

    He has told the truth. He told his understanding and his belief and if he was a Democrat black man the Left would be supporting him.

    Parent

    Let me help (none / 0) (#82)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 09:59:48 AM EST
    Because in his mind he had been offered a scholarship if he would just apply.

    So he made it up.  Okay.  I believe that was the original premise, that it's "true" not in a factual sense, but in his own imagination.

    if he was a Democrat black man the Left would be supporting him.

    Please give me an example of Black Democrat as unhinged as Carson, who was a Democratic leader in presidential polls.  That would be an evolution denying religious nutcase with no concept of the framework or function of the United States government Black Democrat.

    Parent

    You want an example of an unhinged (none / 0) (#93)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 11:29:38 AM EST
    black Demo?

    Are you aware that we have a black president who wants to "lead from behind?"

    And no, he didn't make anything up. After the meeting he understood that he would be accepted. That is a scholarship.

    Parent

    I knew (none / 0) (#98)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 12:00:59 PM EST
    ... you couldn't name one.

    So you fell back on the "Obama is not smart" meme, even though his administration is infinitely more successful than the previous one.  Magna cum laude at Harvard Law is obviously a sign of stupidity.

    As a Constitutional scholar and the top of his law school class, Mr. Obama understands the function and framework of the country better than a guy who has no apparent familiarity with the Constitution or federal law.

    I'm pretty sure Mr. Obama accepts modern science.  One of Carson's "symptoms" of craziness is his inability to accept common knowledge and scientific consensus that conflicts with his religion.

    Here is why Carson is a nutcase.  

    The Pyramid of Cheops is not a silo.

    The evidence of evolution is overwhelming and confirmed thousands of times daily in biological laboratories.  (What's the point of doing science if you don't use the information it develops?)

    The Founding Fathers all had considerable experience in the electoral process, since there were elected assemblies and electoral offices in the colonies before the revolution.

    God does not answer prayers for touchdowns.

    Parent

    Really?? Who has mastered the (none / 0) (#120)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 02:27:14 PM EST
    most difficult subject? A renowned brain surgeon or a lawyer who has never been a law professor?? Or for that matter, anything but a community organizer and a Chicago political??

    BTW, can you provide us a link to any of Obama's college work? Can you show me who remembered him? Can you explain his relationship with such noted American haters as the Rev and the terrorist??


    Parent

    Really??? (none / 0) (#131)
    by jondee on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 05:06:17 PM EST
    Off hand I'd say the man who's been President of the United States under extremely trying circumstances for six years has so "mastered the more difficult subject".

    And Obama never even installed a cheesy portrait of Jesus and himself in the Whitehouse..

    And by the way, oh ludicrous patron saint of hypocrites, after all your Swift Boat, Bill Ayers, Benghazi, Hillary email posts, where do you get off whining like a little right-wing girl over all the "unfair attacks" on Carson?

    Parent

    He has mastered??? (none / 0) (#137)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 06:31:35 PM EST
    Really? What? How to tell is we can keep our doctor if we want to??

    BTW - This is just in from MSNBC... "Our investigation has revealed that Dr Carson in 1992 returned a VHS tape without rewinding it. He is obviously a criminal."

    Parent

    I don't mind your slurs (none / 0) (#139)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 06:42:10 PM EST
    But I never criticized Kerry's service. In fact I commented that I honored him. It was after he returned and turned traitorous that I found him despicable.

    Please don't make things up.

    As for Ayers,Hillary and her email lies I find them totally disgusting and Ayers and his wife should be in jail.

    And your attempt to insult me as a "...little girl" reveals your hatred of women and deep seated inferiority complex in regards to females.

    Parent

    It isn't a slur if it's true (none / 0) (#142)
    by jondee on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:19:07 PM EST
    if you want to deicate yourself to being a noisy snarling little right-wing attack dog, man up and be prepared to suck up a dose of your own toxic medicine.

    And quit crying.


    Parent

    Uh, the difference is that (none / 0) (#158)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 09:45:12 AM EST
    I don't use pejorative statements about females to try and insult. You do.

    It is exactly the same thing as using the N word on a white you want to insult and the Q word on a straight or gay individual.

    Which displays anyone's true feelings towards females, blacks and gays.



    Parent

    What displays a person's true feelings (none / 0) (#170)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 01:10:22 PM EST
    even more is the people and ideas a person identifies themselves with: in your case it's a laundry list of the county's most prominent crack-brained fundamentalists, reactionaries, armed paranoids, and chicken hawk megalomaniacs.

    Parent
    John Kerry was a traitor for (none / 0) (#200)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 11:38:43 AM EST
    being against the war in Vietnam?  Just Right Wing wackery.....

    Parent
    Ummmmm.... (none / 0) (#195)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 10:03:37 AM EST
    ...Jim there are what, 5 living presidents, and thousands of surgeons, so to answer you question, I believe it's infinitely harder to become president.

    That being said, don't worry, Carson will not be president, nor will any republican in 2016.  I am pretty sure you know this and your party knows this, it's why you clowns have made your selections you have, why not.

    Parent

    Scott, you don't pay attention (none / 0) (#199)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 10:51:34 AM EST
    I have previously commented that Carson is not my choice.

    As for the election, my money is on whoever the Repubs run.

    The Left has been exposed.

    Parent

    The truth isn't sexy (none / 0) (#76)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 09:05:39 AM EST
    It's sexy in Republican minds to say I turned down an offer to attend West Point.

    Was he in ROTC in college though or JROTC in high school? I don't see why anyone would attend West Point after attending some other college.  I don't even know if they would allow it unless your dad was a General and pulled strings.

    The Academies are 4 yr colleges. It's a basic degree. You wouldn't come out of a 4 yr institution to go into the Army's equivalent of a 4 yr institution. And you go in as a freshman. Each year at the Academies is a tightly designed process of indoctrination, people don't transfer in mid education.

    If Carson was in ROTC, then he is already in college receiving a basic 4 yr instruction to a Bachelors. The college that the Army wants you to attend after you receive a Bachelors is the Army Command and General Staff College at Ft Leavenworth KS. After you have graduated from that you can go to the Army War college in PA.


    Parent

    Carson described it as a ROTC cadet (none / 0) (#78)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 09:18:51 AM EST
    In the book, Carson details how he excelled at ROTC military training from 10th grade to his senior year when he became a colonel and "executive officer over all (Detroit) city schools."

    The whole story involves activity while he was a senior in high school not college.

    Parent

    So he was JROTC (none / 0) (#79)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 09:22:40 AM EST
    Odd goof for someone who was a stellar future soldier. There is a yuuuuuuge difference between the two.

    Parent
    Good point (none / 0) (#201)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 11:47:43 AM EST
    ROTC and the Academies do the same thing:  train college students to be officers....

    Junior ROTC?   Good lord, you can't tell anything from a Junior ROTC student.....

    Parent

    So far, no one has disputed his JROTC claim (none / 0) (#116)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 02:03:13 PM EST
    that as a high school senior  he became a colonel and "executive officer over all (Detroit) city schools."

    I agree that it is confusing that someone at that level was not aware of the process required to gain admittance to West Point.

    Parent

    Agreed (none / 0) (#125)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 04:07:17 PM EST
    I think these guys have a couple more months in the limelight, and then they're going to fall off a political cliff.  Then, the real terror begins: the dangerously smooth Ted Cruz is going to rise to the top of this heap, and then it's going to get serious.

    That is what I have always thought, although, I see Rubio garnering more support than Cruz.
    And Christie is a good retail politician, despite getting relegated to the kiddie table, he might have a run in him yet.

    Parent

    Christie (none / 0) (#129)
    by FlJoe on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 04:28:38 PM EST
    toasted himself with bridgegate, fairly or not, it's just too easy for voters (and comedians, cartoonists) to remember.

    I also see Rubio as gaining more support from the money boys, but Cruz also has big money friends and he is more likely to attract the Carson/Trump anti-establishment vote. I could easily see this developing into a Trump, Rubio, Cruz showdown maybe with Jeb desperately hanging in there hoping for a miracle.

    That's all predicated on Carson melting down, which almost seems inevitable, but I have already been spectacularly wrong in this cycle.

    Parent

    Most negative ads play around the edges (none / 0) (#1)
    by CoralGables on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 09:48:45 AM EST
    Ben Carson West Point press conference (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 09:53:31 AM EST
    Quite excercised. Gee, maybe (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by KeysDan on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 12:42:33 PM EST
    Carson, the fabled Egyptolgist,  did have that violent background after all--chasing his mother with a hammer, and stabbing "Bob." Only to be divinely redeemed in the bathroom. This is the most awake he has appeared.

     However, it seems likely this challenge of Carson's will be taken up:  "Do you think I am a pathological liar, like CNN does, or do you think I'm an honest person. ..I'm going to leave it up to the American people to make that decision."  It is a fair question.

    There is to consider, for starters,  the "Popeye Organization" episode, the Vitamin cure of his prostate cancer, but he had prostate surgery anyhow, to be a role model, Mannatech shilling for 10-years that he denies, its revelation being "propaganda," his dinner with General Westmoreland and  that offer of a "full scholarship" to West Point that he declined. and that John Hancock thing.

    But, as Carson reminds, this is all the media's fault for looking into his background, statements and books. And things he says.  And, what about Barack Obama who got a free pass on those conspiracy theories he subscribes to?  

    Of course, his supporters love him all the more. But, for those who have not succumbed to his skills as a political lobotomist, the answer to his question should be clear.  

    Parent

    Per the Detroit News (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by MO Blue on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 07:22:53 PM EST
    In the book, Carson details how he excelled at ROTC military training from 10th grade to his senior year when he became a colonel and "executive officer over all (Detroit) city schools."

    Carson said the Memorial Day parade march capped his senior year in high school.

    "To make it more wonderful, we had important visitors that day," Carson wrote.

    "Two soldiers who had won the Congressional Medal of Honor in Viet Nam were present. More exciting to me, General William Westmoreland (very prominent in the Viet Nam war) attended with an impressive entourage."

    Carson wrote that his ROTC instructor -- identified as Sgt. Hunt -- introduced him to Westmoreland "and I had dinner with him and the Congressional Medal winners."

    "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point," Carson said. Link

    According Westmoreland's personal schedule the general was not in Detroit on Memorial Day or during the days preceding and following the holiday. He was in D.C.

    Parent

    Fortunately for Dr. Ben, and for America (none / 0) (#53)
    by Peter G on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 10:10:39 PM EST
    stories like this are protected by the First Amendment.
      p.s. Is it necessary to mention that there is no such thing as a "full scholarship to West Point"? The service academies, including USMA West Point, are free of charge to all who win appointments to them.

    Parent
    This is the most awake he has appeared...bahaha (none / 0) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 06:29:07 PM EST
    Political lobotomist?

    The next time Trevor Noah needs emergency surgery.......

    Parent

    Sad, I/we still don't exactly know what to make (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 06:25:18 PM EST
    Of it. I could educate myself more fully by reading Ben Carsons book but who wants to put themselves through that?

    Modern military academy recruiting did not exist though in the time frame that Carson is talking about.

    My sister-in-law WAS recruited by both West Point and the Air Force Academy in the mid 80s. She still holds some HS long distance and cross country running records. That was the basis for both of those institutions recruiting her and she did tour both academies.

    Scholarship though? It's not a scholarship. You owe. Air Force Academy cadets are not allowed to be married. So when my brother-in-law graduated she arranged to not complete her education there. After his graduation they married, she finished her education on the road AND....she had to serve 6 years in the Army reserves to pay the country back for those 2 yrs at the Air Force Academy. It isn't a scholarship.

    My husband said that maybe you civilians would still view it as a scholarship. I say No. I say you all basically understand it is a contract that will be fulfilled come hell or high water at the very least, and some of you might even consider it a form of indentured servitude :)

    Parent

    Of course, Carson could (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 07:08:14 PM EST
    have gone to West Point and gotten his M.D. w/the Army paying the tab and possibly done his residency under the auspices of the Atmy and then served the required years.

    Parent
    Spouse says West Point isn't a medical (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 09:13:29 PM EST
    School. The Army will make that deal with you, but you won't be attending West Point ever. You go to West Point for one reason, to become an officer who knows how to successfully fight wars.

    Parent
    True. But the US military may have paid for his (none / 0) (#56)
    by oculus on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 11:21:12 PM EST
    medical school.  For example, a friend's son went to Columbia under the auspices of the Army.

    Parent
    True, and they have need for a few (none / 0) (#70)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:22:58 AM EST
    MBAs too. My cousins husband cut that deal for his MBA. But he didn't go to Annapolis. In fact, if he had hoped to be chosen for the Marine Corp out of Annapolis I doubt he would have been selected.

    Your "fight" leaders come out of the Academies.

    And then there is the reality of Carson being black. Was this the 60s or 70s? Because in the 70s West Point only had at most 9 black cadets at any given time. Without coming out of a military family, like his father being one of those precious few black officers who greatly excelled or his father achieving the rank of Sgt Major, I don't see how it is likely he got ANY West Point "offers". He claims he can't remember the officers names who were talking to him about attending West Point. West Point graduates are a fairly select group. If he remembered any small detail about any of them I'm sure he could find them with the Google :) Most of them are Republicans, they'd likely be crazed to stand in front of the cameras with Carson waxing nostalgic.

    If you didn't come out of one of those military families though you were running around trying to gather together the "sponsors" you need for selection. I think he's probably 100% full of it.


    Parent

    Whoops forgot the actual year was (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:51:36 AM EST
    in the Detroit News article. See link in previous comment.

    In Carson's 1990 best-selling autobiography, "Gifted Hands: The Ben Carson Story," the neurosurgeon tells of being offered a scholarship to West Point as a high school senior sometime after having dinner with the U.S. Army's chief of staff, Gen. William Westmoreland, on Memorial Day 1969.


    Parent
    So I googled (none / 0) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 09:18:29 AM EST
    Those damned Generals, they keep constant records of their whereabouts that go into National Archives :) Westmoreland was no where near Detroit in the days before, during, or after that Memorial Day. That's pretty sad. Guess Carson figured that since Westmoreland was dead he's safe to lie.

    Oddly Carson also goofs. He wasn't ROTC, he was Junior ROTC or in full acronym form JROTC.

    Parent

    The Detroit News reported that fact on 11/7 (none / 0) (#80)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 09:40:05 AM EST
    Per Detroit News:

    But Westmoreland's personal schedule shows the general was not in Detroit on Memorial Day or during the days preceding and following the holiday. His schedule says he was in and around Washington, D.C., that weekend, according to Army archives The Detroit News reviewed Friday.

    Westmoreland was in Detroit on Feb. 18, 1969, for a dinner honoring a Vietnam War veteran.

    Upon being confronted with the fact that Westmoreland was not in Detroit on Memorial Day, 1969, Carson's campaign conveniently changed the story line.

    On MSNBC's "MTP Daily" Friday evening, Carson campaign manager Barry Bennett conceded Carson's published account of when he met with Westmoreland is inaccurate.

    "It's in February, not in a Memorial Day parade," Bennett told MSNBC's Chuck Todd.



    Parent
    You (none / 0) (#81)
    by FlJoe on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 09:56:33 AM EST
    have to give him a pass for possibility conflating the events decades later, that's quite understandable.

    The real issue he has always strongly inferred that he won the prize of an appointment("scholarship" if you will) to the Academy while glossing over the fact he never even got in the race.

    Parent

    Why would I give him a pass without (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 10:27:48 AM EST
    anything to substantiate that he even attended the Feb. 18, 1969 dinner, let alone "had dinner with Gen. Westmoreland."?

    Parent
    Just (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by FlJoe on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 11:14:21 AM EST
    saying that it is reasonable to believe that he was also involved in the earlier banquet including possibly meeting Westmoreland in a receiving line or short inspection and "you're a great candidates for the Academy" comments, probably got some chow also.

     

    Parent

    I don't believe it is reasonable at all (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 12:30:26 PM EST
    So far I haven't seen anything resembling proof that he attended either dinner, let alone that he met Westmoreland.

    What I have seen is proof that many of his statements are false. So to me, it is not at all reasonable to believe his current version of those stories without some type of proof.

    Parent

    I have since read the banquet (none / 0) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 11:28:03 AM EST
    Was a $10 a plate to attend affair.

    And shaking the General's hand when he's in the receiving line and having him wink at you and say, "Ever considered West Point?" does not equal being offered "a full scholarship appointment" to attend West Point no matter how loose or convoluted your definition of full scholarship might be.

    The Carson campaign seems to still be attempting to say Carson had a more private dinner with Westmoreland. Why are there no records of this dinner while there are records as trivial as to when Westmoreland scheduled his personal tennis playing?

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#100)
    by FlJoe on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 12:12:14 PM EST
    never said that Carson didn't create a myth, or rather one of many myths that has become part of his personal story, but like all myths there are many grains of truth involved.

    Having your own personal mythology is not unusual or even that damning for a politician or any public figure, heck Dr. Carson had become an inspirational writer/figure/speaker with a definite religious bent ie: mythology.

    The problem is that Carson clings to his myths, long past time he should just say, I mispoke or was mistaken , even when they make no logical sense whatsoever(ie, pyramids)

    I really think that this guy actually truly believes in his own mythology as much as he believes in his literal creationism, there is absolutely no questioning his faith.

    And did I mention his favorability ratings are sky high, oy vey.

    Parent

    Having your own mythology CAN be (none / 0) (#110)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 01:30:06 PM EST
    Damning though, particularly in 2015. You can't really roll out past occurances of politicians getting away with it either. Inter-connectedness is dramatically changing that.

    Someone videos D.L. Hughley challenging us all to google Bill Cosby rapist, and then 40 or 50 women decide to emotionally support each other and Hey Hey Hey friendly ObGyn Huxtable pudding pops goes up in a big mushroom cloud.

    You can't just run for President now and LIE about having dinner with famous General Westmoreland and then shortly thereafter are offered a "full ride scholarship" appointment to West Point that YOU decide to turn down. This poop will not float.

    Parent

    As I recall, b/4 Obama became Pres. (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 01:52:47 PM EST
    he allowed as how some characters and incidents in his memoirs were combinations of things that actually happened and people he actually knew.

    Parent
    According to Google he had a composite (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 02:11:28 PM EST
    Girlfriend.

    I think that's what I did with the relationships of my youth too. They have become a composite of stuff Not To Do. I wouldn't leave them that way though if I was writing a memoir. Doesn't seem honest.

    Maybe he got around a lot though :) it's just a big blur :) my husband has me mixed up with a short relationship he had prior to meeting me. She even looks very similar to me, but blonder. This hasn't worked out well for him though when he recalls our trip to Cripple Creek and our exploration of Old Colorado City, because that didn't happen. He swears to God every time though it did and that was me.

    Parent

    I'm siding with your husband on this one, MT (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by Peter G on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 10:45:42 PM EST
    It was you. You've forgotten. There was no other girlfriend. I'm sure of it.

    Parent
    You men (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 01:19:25 PM EST
    Always sticking together in the face of grave danger :)

    Parent
    Is that the same thing? (none / 0) (#115)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 01:59:17 PM EST
    I don't recall any suspected stolen valor :) Some doob smoking in a too big fedora, but no stolen valor :)

    Parent
    lol (none / 0) (#146)
    by The Addams Family on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 11:48:04 PM EST
    Hey Hey Hey friendly ObGyn Huxtable pudding pops goes up in a big mushroom cloud

    poetry

    Parent

    MT, you and your pals are really scared (none / 0) (#153)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 09:06:13 AM EST
    of Carson. So much so that you twist and turn.

    Have you read his book? I have. It is an inspiring story of a poor black child who overcame poverty and all that comes with that.

    I would hope that everyone would be cheering this example of what a poor black child with a wonderfully dedicated mother can do with hard work and study.

    But I digress in my attempt to touch your heart.

    In the book this is described in a few words.

    Prior to that it is plain that Sgt Hunt, the first   Black Sgt in charge of the local group, was a big supporter of Carson. He tutored Carson on tests and actively pushed him to study and apply for local local promotions. He was successful and became the EO of Detroit.

    He clearly says he marched in the Memorial Day parade. There is no reason to doubt that. What we also know is that Westmoreland had came to Detroit earlier and attended a dinner in which Carson, as Detroit Executive Officer, would have been invited and had the opportunity to meet Westmoreland and have dinner with the group.

    "...Sgt Hunt introduced me to Gen Westmoreland, and I had dinner with him and the Congressional Medal Winners. Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point."

    It is obvious that it was Sgt Hunt who said something like, "You can have a full ride. You're just that good."

    You parse and complain about the use of the word "scholarship." Again, leaving aside we are talking about a very young man, I note that anyone would consider the use of the word "scholarship"  acceptable to describe not having to pay for a college education except by playing a game, as athletes do, or serving afterwards.

    Yet you don't.

    I think you do. You just don't want to debate his points on personal responsibility, religious faith, hard work, the importance of a mother's total involvement in a child's life.

    And that's a shame. We need millions of Dr. Carson's.

    Parent

    What, we need millions of liars? (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 09:41:59 AM EST
    I don't think so.

    Look, there's no question that Carson was an exceptional surgeon, one who improved a lot of lives and saved many.  And I don't question that his accomplishment was significant given his beginnings.

    The pure facts alone are inspiring; they don't need the kind of embellishment and conflation and prevarication Carson seems pathologically prone to.

    What you don't seem to grasp is that it's the embellishment, the need to make more of something that is already sufficient, the lying - and let's not forget the plagiarism - that are the concern.  It's that he has a problem telling the truth that is the problem, not what he is concocting.

    And when you look at the lies he tells, they all somehow make him bigger, better, more important, more faithful, more, more, more.  I mean, who just has prostate surgery in order to be a role model?  He says the Mannatech products cured him, and he didn't need the surgery, but had it because he was worried that others might not be as diligent about taking the product as he was, and he wanted to be an example.

    The examples continue to pile up - to the point where I wonder about Carson's grasp on reality.  

    Apparently, we were wrong in thinking that Donald Trump had the world's biggest ego, because that prize now has to go to Carson.  Carson, the man whose prayers God is never too busy to answer, always.

    That you don't seem to be too worried about putting someone in the WH who can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy is what's scary.

    Parent

    I am not scared of Ben Carson (none / 0) (#159)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 09:46:08 AM EST
    Unless I'm sedated and he has a saw and scalpel. And based on what I know about him now I'm very afraid in that instance.

    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#160)
    by FlJoe on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 09:47:08 AM EST
    Carson's underlying story is remarkable and inspiring, too bad his books appear to be have been ghost written by Aesop.

    The only thing that scares me about Carson is the fact that millions of people considered consider him qualified to be president based only on his skill with a scalpel and his self promoting, self created hagiography.

    Maybe we do  "need millions of Dr. Carson's", if only to fix the obvious malfunctioning brains of the multitude of wingnuts such as yourself.

    Parent

    I wonder if he still has (none / 0) (#111)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 01:33:35 PM EST
    Many veterans who are willing to go along with him?

    Parent
    This is one response from a veteran (none / 0) (#121)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 02:38:52 PM EST
    As a veteran, I know integrity is central to my life - and Ben Carson lacks it entirely
    Richard Allen Smith

    Admittedly this is just one vet's opinion.

    What might get him in more hot water from vets is his plan to eliminate the VA and replace it with savings accounts.

    Parent

    Hll, his campaign can't even get (none / 0) (#107)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 01:09:31 PM EST
    his age right when defending his West Point story.

    When Carson wrote the book, Williams said, he was relying on the memories of a 16-year-old from the inner city. "In his mind, he was offered a scholarship," Williams said.

    Ben Carson was born on September 18, 1951.
    The Memorial Day in question was on May 26, 1969. On that date, Ben Carson was 4 months shy of 18.

    Parent

    It gets more pathetic by the minute (none / 0) (#113)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 01:50:32 PM EST
    Particularly when WE all remember that this guy is a brain surgeon. Exactly when did his memory stop being so fuzzy :)?

    Parent
    It gets stranger still (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 04:24:14 PM EST
    "Mr. Carson writes of an experience at Yale in his junior year. From his book:

    Mr. Carson, then a junior, and the other students in the class--identified by Mr. Carson as Perceptions 301--that their final exam papers had "inadvertently burned," requiring all 150 students to retake it. The new exam, Mr. Carson recalled in the book, was much tougher. All the students but Mr. Carson walked out.

    The professor came toward me. With her was a photographer for the Yale Daily News who paused and snapped my picture," Mr. Carson wrote. "`A hoax,' the teacher said. `We wanted to see who was the most honest student in the class.'" Mr. Carson wrote that the professor handed him a $10 bill." link

    Ben Carson's Psychology Test Story Gets Even Weirder

    More Ben Carson news today! You remember Doc Carson's story about the psychology test hoax that proved he was the most honest man at Yale? Well, Carson says it really happened, and the proof is on the right. It's a piece from the Yale Daily News about a parody issue of the News published by the Yale Record. Apparently the parody issue announced that some psychology exams had been destroyed and a retest would be held in the evening. Hilarious! link

    Yes, there was a Parody issue of the News published by the Yale Record that stated exams had been destroyed and a retest would be held. That issue was published on January 13, 1970.
    Yale archives

    Let's review some dates. In Feb. and May, 1969, Ben Carson was a senior in High School. In Jan. 1970, Ben Carson would have been a freshman at Yale and not a junior. Records show he got his B.A. from Yale in 1973.

    His current proof further detracts from his credibility rather than enhancing it.

    Parent

    Which (none / 0) (#147)
    by FlJoe on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 05:48:33 AM EST
    all goes to my point, there is a grain of truth in all his myths.

    Thanks Ben, by pointing to the this grain of truth behind your story you only expose how much you lied about it, the most gullible man at Yale morph's into the most honest. Dr. Carson has some serious hero worship problems....of himself.

    Parent

    Not sure how he morphed into (none / 0) (#148)
    by MO Blue on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 07:10:42 AM EST
    the most gullible.

    Once again, there is no proof that he was in the class mentioned in the spoof.

    The only thing that has been proven is that he used something that occurred (the hoax) in his freshman year at Yale as the basis of a fabricated story for his book.

    Parent

    Social media is going nuts making (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Anne on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 07:50:43 AM EST
    fun of Carson...

    There's the photo of him as Jimi Hendrix, with the tag line, "I played the Star-Spangled Banner at Woodstock."

    There's the photo of him inset into one of Easter Island, with the caption, "This is where Jesus hid the eggs on the first Easter."

    There's the photo of him inset into one of the Great Wall of China, with the caption, "It's my belief that the so-called Great Wall of China is actually an elaborate stone Hot Wheels Track that King Solomon built for his nephew."

    Stonehenge: "That's clearly a dog park, built by Noah, after the flood."

    It's not going to stop - in fact, I suspect it's just going to get worse, much, much worse.

    Can't wait to see this guy at the next debate.

    Read something recently that suggests that the reason for Carson's affect and attitude is that he is convinced that God answers his prayers - that what's the point of getting all worked up over anything when you know that God will step in and make everything right?

    Carlos Lozada in the WaPo:

       Ben Carson became convinced of two things during his teenage years. First, that he was uniquely talented, "one of the most spectacular and smartest people in the world." Second, that God would answer his prayers, however specific they might be...

        Little has occurred in Carson's life and career since then to counter those impressions, and much has happened to confirm them. That may help explain why, during his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination, the retired neurosurgeon has appeared at times indifferent to or uninformed about matters relevant to the office he seeks...After reading five of his autobiographical, self-help and political books...I find this attitude more understandable. Why stress over policy details or gaffes when you're the brightest person in the room, and when the Big Guy will show up if you ever need a hand?

    [...]

    In Carson's telling, an early instance of heavenly intervention comes during his freshman year at Yale. It is the night before a final exam in chemistry, and Carson, who had developed weak study habits in high school, is hopelessly behind in the class. If he fails, he will have to drop out of pre-med. "Either help me understand what kind of work I ought to do," Carson prays to God, "or else perform some kind of miracle and help me pass this exam." While he sleeps, Carson dreams that a nebulous figure enters the chemistry hall and begins working out problems, while Carson, sitting alone in class, takes rapid notes. The next morning, the actual test contains all the questions from the dream. Carson scores a 97. "For whatever reason," he concludes, "the God of the universe, the God who holds galaxies in His hands, had seen a reason to reach down to a campus room on planet Earth and send a dream to a discouraged ghetto kid."

    [...]

    Once you have God on speed dial, well, it's hard not to press that button. At one point, Carson requests God's help to find his stolen passport; it is retrieved. On the eve of a safari in South Africa, Carson asks God to "bless us with the opportunity to observe a wide variety of wildlife." No surprise: His party witnesses such an astonishing range of animals that the guide can remember nothing like it. ("I never dreamed just how literally my prayers would be answered," he writes.) And in a particularly unnerving intercession, Carson asks God for help in dismissing his incompetent, alcoholic secretary without hurting her feelings. ("I'm softhearted," the doctor assures, "and it is especially hard for me to fire somebody.") Two weeks later, the secretary doesn't show up for work. "We never did find out what happened to her," Carson writes. "She simply disappeared." He regrets not being able to help her, but nevertheless, he is "thankful that this problem was resolved without any unpleasantness on my part." Prayers answered and unpleasantness avoided, at least for the softhearted surgeon.

    Read the whole thing...it's an eye-opener.


    Parent

    Just (none / 0) (#151)
    by FlJoe on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 08:20:46 AM EST
    speculating of course, but I can easily see him as being one of the several students that fell for the hoax and instead of laughing it off or just forgetting about he turns it into a parable of his honesty, that appears to be his modus operandi.

    Maybe I am underestimating the lying of Carson, but it does seem less likely that he would take an obscure story he read as a freshmen and years later insert himself into it.

    In any case, we will probably never know the truth, but Ben "Erkel" Carson getting pranked and the infallible Dr. Carson turning it into Ben "Honest Abe" Carson proving his "Godliness" is my preferred narrative, and I'm sticking to it, just for the chuckles if nothing else.

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#187)
    by FlJoe on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 05:20:01 AM EST
    am not the only one who thinks Carson fell for the hoax
    2nd Yale Alum: Yeah, Carson Got Pranked By Fake Psychology Exam



    Parent
    Yes, many others (none / 0) (#189)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 07:12:31 AM EST
    are speculating without any facts on what "may have" occurred. Makes for a good story.

    Bakal told BuzzFeed he could not confirm that Carson, or any single student, was there at the end of the fake test because he himself was not there when it was administered. A Yale Record staffer posed as a proctor for the exam, Bakal told BuzzFeed, adding: "at the end what few students remained -- it may have just been one or two, I wasn't there -- received a small cash prize."

    Don't see where he or anyone else confirmed that Cardon was actually enrolled in the class. A record that he was a student in the class that was the basis of the hoax would make the story more credible.

    Parent

    Part of Carson's retort (none / 0) (#173)
    by KeysDan on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 01:23:31 PM EST
    at his news conference was to change the subject--his favorite Obama conspiracies, including the "sealed" grades.  Carson should continue his role modeling (as the reason he gave for having a radical prostatectomy,despite its being unnecessary owing to his cure with vitamins)and release his Yale transcript.

     It should show if, and when, he took the elusive Perceptions 301, an Ivy 300 level course with 150 students enrolled.  And, his explanation should include how he was one of the last to recognize being punked by a Yale humor magazine makes him the most honest in all of Yaledom.  Some may think it put him in the running for the most gullible. Kinder souls might say, the most persistent.  Few, the most honest.

    Parent

    FIJoe (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 12:32:15 PM EST
    You conflate unimportant stuff, not an event that Carson says, "I felt so proud, my chest bursting with ribbons and braids of every kind,"

    I would think it would be rather easy to see if there was a parade on that day, which was a Tuesday.  February in Detroit isn't exactly parade weather, high of 39.  Surely a visit from General Westmoreland to honor a local veteran would garner an write-up in a local paper.  I would also think the parade would be news worthy.

    He also conflated one Vietnam veteran with two Congressional Medal winners.  I am guessing he conflated the entire story with what he wished would have happened, with what actually happened.

    The issue you mentioned, cannot be proven/disproven, it was a discussion with only one of the two still alive.  But prove the entire story is bunk and you don't have to worry about a conversation that never existed.

    Right now his best bet is admit the lies in the book in a tearful public apology that includes asking god for forgiveness.  Surely he can wrap all the lies in the book in a Jesus blanket and knowing the GOP it should increase his support.

    Otherwise he gots some real problems.

    Parent

    My husband says you don't get (none / 0) (#85)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 10:23:02 AM EST
    Forgetful about marching in a parade and then having dinner with General Westmoreland vs. you maybe saw him at a banquet in February and then marched in a parade in May :)

    And Carson would have had to have sponsors to even be looked at for West Point, two Congressmen, Senators, Generals, (1 sponsor could have simply been an active duty soldier or retired service member but the other had to be someone of authority). My spouse considered going to West Point but knew he wanted to fly helicopters. Going to West Point means you mostly will fly a desk, becoming a warrant officer means you get to fly and fly and fly.

    Parent

    The process is (none / 0) (#89)
    by MKS on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 11:17:11 AM EST
    that you need to get nominated to the Service Academies by a member of Congress.   Typically members of Congress nominate ten for every open slot, and then the Academy does the final selection.

    The Vice President can nominate people too.  And children of Medal of Honor recipients get admitted, I believe.

    Anyone remotely connected to the process knows there is no "scholarship"......  

    Parent

    When my husband was looking at (none / 0) (#94)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 11:31:33 AM EST
    West Point you had to have two sponsors. Probably was the same for Carson. If you were coming out of a military family then though and your father was high achieving, your sponsors were just a phone call away. Everyone else was out there hustling and shaking the bushes.

    Parent
    Well, it has been some time (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by MKS on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 12:16:34 PM EST
    but I applied and was nominated to the Air Force Academy (and I think the Naval Academy....or that may have been ROTC)

    My father was career military, so I checked that box.  I was nominated by a U.S. Senator and I think my Congressman--that process was like any other application process, except for the PT test and the eye test and other medical tests.  I knew nobody, so it was not about political influence....it is standard constituent service all members of Congress provide.

    Although I was nominated, I was not offered admission.....I had a D in English the semester I applied....and I still remember my Junior year English teacher for giving me that D.   I was shocked, as I had done well on everything.  He told me that he had docked me 2% every time I was late.  It was first period English, and I thought I had timed it just right so I would enter the classroom as the bell was ringing....

    What really ticked me off is that he never took me aside and told me that he was doing this--until the end of the semester.  He had said he would do this at the beginning of the year, or so he told me, but I long forgotten about this and I thought I was on time anyway....

    The creep even blackballed me for AP English.   There was only one AP English course and you had to compete against 40 or 50 others to get in.  My junior year teacher announced the list of those who made it, and my name was not on the list.  Oh well...But then he said I needed to see the AP teacher.  I went and talked to her, and she said I had one of the best qualifying essays but that she had been warned I was always late to Junior English....

    Oh well.  If I had gone to the Air  Force Academy I would never have become a pilot (my objective) because my eyes went bad in college....and I would have been miserable....

    Parent

    Being a real person has more (none / 0) (#106)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 12:55:11 PM EST
    Pluses I think. Having a normal teen life is conducive to having a well balanced adult life. It isn't normal to be a perfect teenager.

    I don't think my husband would have been selected for West Point either because in HS he had similar blips in his GPA. He was also a skate boarder and one year he decided the most important thing to do was build ramps because the town went to war against the skate boarders. He should have failed Trig simply because he wasn't doing the work. He worked a deal with his empathetic teacher though, and as long as he got an A on his final exam she agreed to pass him.

    It's just me, but I think it's better and healthier for everyone to know what they want, and if you won't get it at one of the Academies don't waste your time.

    Another thing I notice, people who serve who have that in mind do better in life overall. People who know how to perfectly check boxes get lost the minute there isn't a box.

    Also can't help but notice in Iraq that for years it was a series of doing the same thing over and over and over again expecting different results. Selecting from perfect box checkers probably has a stagnating affect on creativity.

    Parent

    Carson was born on Sept 18, 1951 (none / 0) (#74)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:45:56 AM EST
    He was probably a senior in high school some where around 1968.

    Parent
    He Would Have Been 17... (none / 0) (#168)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 12:39:07 PM EST
    ...on February 18 or Memorial Day, 1969 turning 18 on September 18th.

    Parent
    Army doctors do not go (none / 0) (#87)
    by MKS on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 11:13:42 AM EST
    to West Point.....

    The Army recruits doctors directly into the Army and will pay for Medical School....I do not know of any West Point graduates that the Army has later sent to medical school.

    My Brother in Law was sent to Georgetown Medical School by the Army ...and spent a number of years in the Army before starting in private practice....no pit stop at West Point.

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#3)
    by FlJoe on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 11:18:27 AM EST
    watched it in real time and many clips on the TV machine, and again just now and it remains entertaining, especially the part where he demands that the press should be investigating Obama's past rather then his, he went on almost a unhinged soliloquy with the reporters shouting at him like a Greek chorus.

    IMHO This guy has an enormous ego and  is an intellectual lightweight but the angry, combative  Mr. Carson is much more fun to watch then the kindly but delusional Dr. Ben.

    Parent

    11:06 4th Q: Vanderbilt 7, Florida 6. (none / 0) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 01:43:42 PM EST
    Oh, no, Gators! But they're at the Vandy 12, 1st and 10.

    9:00 4th Q: Vanderbilt 7, Florida 6. (none / 0) (#16)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 01:54:23 PM EST
    Oh, no, Gators! The Commodores recovered a Florida fumble, and are now driving the other way. Given that Vanderbilt got absolutely sliced, diced and puréed by Houston last week, 34-0, both this game and Memphis's rout of Ole Miss a few weeks ago could wind up speaking volumes about the media's tendency to overrate the so-called big boys in the SEC.

    Parent
    1:10 4th Q: Florida 9, Vanderbilt 7. (none / 0) (#21)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 02:19:49 PM EST
    For a game that was projected to be an utter  Gator rout, it's proved to be anything but. This has been a very unimpressive Florida effort today against an injury-riddled Commodore team, one that certainly belies the Gators' No. 10 ranking. And given that the Gator D just gave up a 14-yard pass completion on 4th and 10, they're not out of the weeds yet.

    FINAL: Florida 9, Vanderbilt 7. (none / 0) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 02:29:42 PM EST
    Gator Nation can now breathe a collective sigh of relief. That was really ugly, but hey, a win's still a win.

    Parent
    Donald, you really don't have to suck up (1.00 / 1) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 05:21:08 PM EST
    to BTD.

    Parent
    And who asked you anyway? Why do you have to be such a d!ck to everyone all the time? You're like an obnoxious in-law at a family reunion.

    Parent
    Can 't get away from (none / 0) (#72)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:26:40 AM EST
    your family, eh??

    Parent
    I don't talk politics or football ... (none / 0) (#95)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 11:31:53 AM EST
    ... with children or any adult emotional equivalents thereof. So go catch your pathetic 6th grade-level jollies elsewhere.

    Parent
    The Gators Have No QB, No Kicker (none / 0) (#24)
    by CoralGables on Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 02:42:53 PM EST
    and next to no offense. But they do have a defense which is how you turn the ball over 4 times and still win.

    Ugly is a gross understatement. But in this case, a win is a win and they will play in the SEC Championship game.

    Parent

    ... and not a teams that's actually good. They clearly had a bad game. Even the Gator coaching staff didn't have it together today, inadvertently icing their own placekicker like that prior to the game-winning FG. Dial up a performance like that against Baylor or UCLA, and they'll simply hand your head and all four of your limbs back to you at the end of 60 minutes.

    Parent
    Anyone have a memory foam mattress? (none / 0) (#83)
    by McBain on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 10:06:22 AM EST
    Have you noticed any difference in quality of sleep?  Does it last as long as a regular mattress?  I'm thinking about getting one but not sure it's right for me.  

    Got a Temperpedic (none / 0) (#96)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 11:32:26 AM EST
    Would fight anyone who tried to take it.

    About 11 years old and sleeps just like the first night.

    Parent

    I tried one out and it felt great (none / 0) (#104)
    by McBain on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 12:28:54 PM EST
    but I didn't like the price.  However, if it lasts 11 years then it might be worth it.  Did you get an adjustable one with the remote?  Do I need that?

    Parent
    I Have Two... (none / 0) (#171)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 01:17:04 PM EST
    ...sort of, it's a King, but because I wanted separate adjustments, it's actually two twin XL's with the bases connected, fairly normal for adjusting beds.

    One of the requirements from my gf is that it not be hot.  So I ended up getting mattresses that were, I think, 7 layers.  They have come along ways since just foam, now they are all kinds of different layers and foam densities to ensure they last longer.  This was 5 years ago, and back then most foam mattresses were considered hot to sleep on.  I think they have that issue worked out.

    I can't remember the brand, but here is a diagram of layers.  I can't remember what layers were in mine.

    I bought it online and got it for about half price of the ones they had in the stores at the time, around 5 years ago.  They delivered and set-it-up.

    I like it a lot, I don't think I would ever get a conventional mattress, it's a pleasure to sleep on and has held up well.  One thing I don't know is the useful life, when am I suppose to replace it.  So far so good, but because it's layered and built specifically, there is no flipping which I find very odd.  It makes sense, but I was always a routine mattress flipper and now nothing.

    I keep looking for any permanent sagging and after 5 years none.  You will spill on it so I would make sure you get some sport of water proofing, if it's not built into the mattress, unlike a conventional mattress, liquids and foam do not mix well, it will effect performance, especially if the liquid is sticky.  Mine also have a layer of some sort of anti-bacterial material, which once I started looking,I wanted as the foam, to me, seems like an idea place for stuff to live and grow.

    I would find out what density you like, then buy online someplace that guarantees you will like or they will pay to remove it.  That is what I did.  I was very nervous about it, but I read reviews about the store and decided to do it.  I am glad I did, but I can't remember what I paid.


    Parent

    Thanks Scott (none / 0) (#174)
    by McBain on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 02:23:17 PM EST
    Everyone seems to like  memory foam.  I will probably get one soon.  I just need to figure out the right type and price.  

    Parent
    Mysterious Ancient Earthworks... (none / 0) (#102)
    by desertswine on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 12:21:39 PM EST
    That article really grabbed my attention. (none / 0) (#186)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 11:37:43 PM EST
    We used to have a TL commenter who was teaching in the capitol of that "Stan."

    Parent
    "So he hung a left at Woodward Avenue, (none / 0) (#103)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 12:26:28 PM EST
    heading north from the Potomac River..."

    In his autobiography, which was the basis of a movie about Carson's life, Carson wrote that the dinner with Westmoreland took place after he "marched at the head of the Memorial Day parade."

    "I felt so proud, my chest bursting with ribbons and braids of every kind," said Carson, who was a top ROTC cadet at Detroit's former Southwestern High School.

    Westmoreland's Memorial Day schedule on May 30, 1969, indicates he was in Washington. The schedule says Westmoreland had a morning meeting with national security adviser Henry Kissinger, laid a wreath at an 11 a.m. memorial service in Arlington National Cemetery and had a 5 p.m. "boat ride on the Potomac."

    - The Detroit News

    Wesmoreland (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by lentinel on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 04:24:13 PM EST
    was such an inspiration during the horrific, vile, futile war in Vietnam, no wonder Carson was smitten with him.

    Parent
    Already posted, I see. Never mind. (none / 0) (#108)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 01:18:05 PM EST
    Great :-( (none / 0) (#109)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 01:28:04 PM EST
    Secretary of Defense Ash Carter told ABC News that more U.S. troops "absolutely" could be sent to Syria if additional capable local forces are found.

    "If we find additional groups that are willing to fight ISIL and are capable and motivated, we'll do more," Carter told ABC, using the administration's preferred acronym for the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS). "The president has indicated a willingness to do more, I certainly am prepared to recommend he do more, but you need to have capable local forces; that's the key to sustainable victory."link



    We should be safe (none / 0) (#118)
    by KeysDan on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 02:10:41 PM EST
    from the inevitable quagmire if Ash sticks to the criteria expressed in his statement "....I certainly am prepared to recommend he do more, but you need to have capable local forces; that's the key to sustainable victory."  

     Capable local forces are the elusive and illusory component--the nut of the issue, attested to by the "4 or 5 capable forces" from the last boondoggle.  And, if looking for victory in the Middle East, sustainable or fleeting, that is a bar higher than one of those grain storage bins in Egypt.

    Parent

    History seems to indicate (none / 0) (#122)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 02:41:22 PM EST
    that the stated criteria has a very flexible interpretation.

    Parent
    True. (none / 0) (#124)
    by KeysDan on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 03:07:31 PM EST
    Flexibility is king, right along with estimates.  As in that effort at capable troops being "four or five."   With a universe of such dimension, it would seem that we could estimate with better precision than four or five.  But, then a 20 percent range is probably a good military estimate.

    Parent
    And if (none / 0) (#126)
    by lentinel on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 04:22:35 PM EST
    any of the presidential contenders have weighed in on this, I haven't heard about it.

    Parent
    Here is a link to (none / 0) (#140)
    by MO Blue on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 07:27:52 PM EST
    statements by each of the Democratic candidates after Obama's announcement about sending troups into Syria. Link

    Parent
    Thanks! (none / 0) (#141)
    by lentinel on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:05:29 PM EST
    I can mostly identify with Sanders.
    I have the same fear that he expresses - that we are being drawn into yet another quagmire to add to the quagmires we are already up to our necks in.

    O'Malley loses me right away when he prefaces his remarks with, "ISIS must be stopped..." For me, a red flag. Be tough young man, be tough.

    Clinton is absolutely all over the place, as usual. I wind up feeling that with her in the WH, we'll be going for perpetual wars wherever the opportunity arises.

    Thanks for the link.
    At least it is a subject for discussion among those folks.
    Whew

    Parent

    Donald Trump (none / 0) (#112)
    by KeysDan on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 01:50:08 PM EST
    as host on SNL last night was seamless comedy with his presidential campaign.  And, both at one with bad comedy at that.

     A skit about reporting of advisers to "president Trump," in the Oval Office, about everything on all fronts being terrific and America great again, save for the new restiveness of the American people because there was nothing left to do, was barely watchable. The trio skit with two Trump impersonators was hardly a knee-slapper, but it demonstrated that Trump knows show business and can take a joke.

    When Trump critically  tweets about SNL actors engaged in a skit will never be accused of being terrific. Larry David did call Trump a "racist" in response to a dare and the promise of $5000. All the calls to block Trump from his hosting of the show were unnecessary. Trump stood (or fell) on his own.  But, he should have fired the SNL writers, or built a wall around them.

    The only really humorous skit was the opening parody of the MSNBC forum in S.C. They had Rachael Maddow down pat; not so much Martin O'Malley, a little better for Hillary, and, again, a great send up of Bernie by Larry David.

     Overall, not a really funny show given the funny  material to work with. The best part of the show was the performance by the music artist, Sia.  A very creative performer.

    Thanks for the wishes! (none / 0) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 05:22:14 PM EST


    Happy Birthday, Captain (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by jondee on Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 05:37:27 PM EST
    It's kind of funny, (none / 0) (#152)
    by lentinel on Mon Nov 09, 2015 at 08:44:15 AM EST
    in a macabre way, that the issue of global warming is not front and center for all governments and all nations.

    Some of the lack of interest, I believe, is due to racism and elitism. It seems as if the ones who will be impacted first will be those we consider to be "non-white", and the most impoverished people.

    As our droning programs, as well as our choices for wars and bombings have shown, and our references to the daily deaths of civilians we consider to be non-white as "collateral", we have little regard for the lives of people who are of darker skin colors than our vision of people whose lives we value.

    As a people, we have become numbed. We no longer even take notice of the bombings of hospitals. The story has legs for about a week, a limp apology, and is then forgotten.

    But the simple fact is that we, as a race, the human race, stand to go down the drain. Doomed to be forgotten well before our sun burns out.

    Greed. Racism. Elitism.
    All combined to give us an uncertain future. Or no future.

    We can't even find time, or so it seems, to imagine what life might be like for our descendants.

    I think we may have passed the tipping point.

    But I still think that we should insist that any candidate seeking to posture themselves as possible "leaders" should be required to present a comprehensive and uncompromising program, based on science and unyielding to corporate greed, to attempt to end this imminent nightmare.

    Thread closed and Jim (none / 0) (#202)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 10, 2015 at 02:59:34 PM EST
    please take a time out. You are clogging all our threads with your repetitive theories and insults in response. This blog is not about you.