Friday Open Thread

Our last open thread is full. Here's a new one, all topics welcome. Civility required.

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  • True Detective season 2 (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 08:58:30 AM EST
    Oooh, this sounds interesting... (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:13:28 AM EST
    even though Vaughn's done a lot of chick-flick and buddy-comedy, he can be dark - and dark is what we're expecting, right?

    From Entertainment Weekly:

    Colin Farrell as Ray Velcoro, "a compromised detective whose allegiances are torn between his masters in a corrupt police department and the mobster who owns him."

    Vince Vaughn as Frank Semyon, "a career criminal in danger of losing his empire when his move into legitimate enterprise is upended by the murder of a business partner."

    HBO says more casting will be announced as it is confirmed. Other names rumored to be in the mix include Friday Night Lights star Taylor Kitsch, The Notebook`s Rachel McAdams, and Mad Men's Elisabeth Moss. True Detective will shoot later this fall. No premiere date is set, but a summer return seems likely.

    On a side note, have to say that in the new Lincoln commercials McConaughey is doing, it feels like he's doing them as a cleaned-up Rust Cohle; I keep expecting to see one of those straw thingies hanging from the rearview mirror...


    Vaughn can be great (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:21:16 AM EST
    see Psycho.  Silly pointless movie but he was great.  My sister gave me a t-shirt that says. "I am Rust Cohle".   I told her not until I lose a few more pounds.  Till then I just a another chubby nihilistic atheist.

    I think this sounds great too.


    What a great sister and shirt (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:22:23 AM EST
    May I borrow that shirt in the meantime? (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:00:49 AM EST
    Promise I'll return it.  :}

    Expect the next big announcement (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:23:22 AM EST
    will be female.  

    Rachel McAdams? (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:16:56 PM EST
    The second season of the hit HBO series True Detective is about to start production next month and it appears that another one of the lead roles has been filled. Rachel McAdams was rumored to be in the running for the female lead role on the show, but her name wasn't mentioned in a report that named as many as seven actresses rumored for the part.

    9/26 - Frozen: Heavy Metal Band Releases Adaption Of `Let It Go' (Video)
    9/26 - The Boxtrolls: Check Out The Mecha-Drill In New Featurette (Video)
    9/26 - Birdman: New Poster Released For Michael Keaton Film
    9/26 - The Wedding Ringer: Kevin Hart Gets The Party Started In New Trailer (Video)
    9/26 - Kaley Cuoco's Husband Throws Temper After She Beats Him In Tennis (Video)
    That, in the business, is what we call a smokescreen as things have circled back around to McAdams. Despite not showing up on the massive wish list published last week, Variety is reporting that HBO has offered the lead female role in True Detective to Rachel McAdams.

    There is a website


    Oops (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:17:38 PM EST
    sorry about the clutter

    Eff Vince Vaughn (none / 0) (#109)
    by Dadler on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:11:13 PM EST
    Fox News bullsh*t conservative. I'd put a dog turd on his head if I could. Swingers was his ONE good role. After than...nothin'. But, hey, worst of luck to him. Ahem. '-)

    Omg (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:20:44 PM EST
    i did not know this.  Why did you have to tell me this?  
    Oh well, so is John Voight and he has been amazing in Ray Donavon.

    Clint Eastwood lectured an empty chair ... (none / 0) (#187)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:29:49 PM EST
    ... at the 2012 Republican National Convention. Should that therefore preclude me from admiring and respecting his body of work as a film artist? I mean, whenever I go to see his movies, I've noticed that he's not lecturing me on public policy development.

    Further, there have been a number of Eastwood films with themes that have undercut or run counter to his image as rock-ribbed American conservative icon, such as "Tightrope," "Unforgiven," "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil," "Mystic River" and "Letters from Iwo Jima."

    I also found John Voight's Oscar-winning performance as Luke Martin, a paraplegic Vietnam War veteran-turned-antiwar-activist, in the 1978 Hal Ashby film "Coming Home" to be extraordinarily moving and magical. He's still a great actor, even if I do think he's a political crackpot.

    So, if Eastwood and Voight can take pains to separate their personal politics from their professional craft, then why can't I? Otherwise, I'd honestly be no better than the right-wing clowns who still carry a 42-year-old grudge against Jane Fonda -- Voight's co-star in that film -- for having traveled to North Vietnam at the height of the U.S. bombing campaign in late 1972.



    If it helps, his character will probably be (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:24:46 PM EST
    one that is easy to dislike, so if you watch the series, you can apply your dislike for the person to the character he plays, and the universe will not implode.

    Jon Voigt's Mickey Donovan is a complete and utter a$$hole, which meshes well with Voigt's real-life  self.


    I am really unsympathetic (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by Slado on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:36:14 PM EST
    to you having to suffer knowing an actor has different political views from you.

    Come on, love the art, not the artist.


    Learned a long time ago to tune out people's (none / 0) (#197)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:43:53 PM EST
    politics when I'm listening to their music or watching their films or television shows, etc..  Pickings would be slim were I to appreciate only those who agreed with my personal beliefs.  

    He is. Utterly. (none / 0) (#193)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:34:53 PM EST
    but the amazing thing is he still manages to make him likable.

    At least to me. He it a total waste of air and space.  Thoroughly contemptible.  A walking cesspool.   But I can't help liking him.   That is no small feat for an actor.


    Swingers. Great flick. (none / 0) (#131)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:55:08 PM EST
    I was going (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by lentinel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:29:18 PM EST
    to comment on how the French have been drawn into Obama's, our, new war on ISIS - and how a weak and most unpopular Hollande led them astray...

    but instead...

    Let me comment on the magnificent game I saw yesterday which featured Derek Jeter's last home game as a Yankee, and possibly his last game as shortstop.

    It was beyond scripted.

    Not only was he responsible for the Yankees catching up to Baltimore - by a hit and an error by Baltimore - but then - as a Hollywood scriptwriter might have penned it - when Baltimore was allowed to catch up in the top of the ninth inning, Jeter comes to the plate in the bottom of the ninth and knocks in the winning run.

    It was absolutely perfect.

    I can't begrudge the guy a (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:16:45 PM EST
    last home game that was straight out of The Natural; there had to have been some consolation for officially being iced out of wild card contention the night before when he was still hitless for his last 20-something at-bats.

    And I hope you can't begrudge this Orioles fan her delight at what has been a magical season, a real team effort, with the possibility of making more magic in the post-season.  We've been out in the baseball desert for so long, slowly inching back into greener pastures.


    Way to throw down a negative . . . (none / 0) (#154)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:11:51 PM EST
    Really, you don't begrudge him despite the fact that he went through a hitting slump like every other player does? Nice . . .  yet nothing about what he's contributed to the sport? Not wearing the right uniform?

    By all accounts, he's a standup guy, (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:21:07 PM EST
    and a great athlete, who also has a great work ethic - and that's always good for the sport.  I was happy for him - and for the fans who have supported him - that he could go out on such a high note.  

    Timing is everything, and I was feeling a little sorry for him, slumping as he was coming to the finish line.  

    It wasn't my intention to disparage his career, so apologies if it read that way.  Would a little winky-face have helped?


    Nah, winky-face wouldn't have helped since (none / 0) (#167)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:34:30 PM EST
    it didn't seem to be written in jest/tongue-in-cheek, etc. :)

    Yeah, I felt the same way about the (none / 0) (#169)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:39:13 PM EST
    comment you appended one to, the one where you told me how I should be grateful for all those obnoxious Yankees/Red Sox fans.  :-p

    I think the O's are going to have ... (none / 0) (#202)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 05:05:54 PM EST
    ... their hands full this post-season, and it's probably going to be tough for them to reach the World Series unless somebody somehow manages to muscle aside the red-hot L.A. Angels in the A.L. division series. (As the teams with the two best records in the league, the Orioles and Angels won't meet until the ALCS, assuming of course that both make it that far.)

    That said, the Orioles' season has been nothing short of spectacular, and I think that you and other O's fans can rightly expect great things from them in the coming years. But who knows? Rather than the all-L.A. World Series I'm hoping for, we could well be watching a Battle of the Beltways between Baltimore and Washington this October. That's why they play the game on the field, and not on paper.



    Nicholas Sarkozy, former (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:16:37 PM EST
    president of France, announced his political comeback by seeking leadership of France's main right-wing party. And, this, in turn, is to pave the way for a re-run for the Elysee Palace in 2017.  

    To burnish his badly tarnished status with his party, Sarkozy has spoken out against the legalization of same-sex marriage in France, claiming that it "humiliates families and those who love the family."  

    While catnip for his party, it is a curious approach to counter the French electorate's impression that he is "yesterday's man."  However, Sarkozy does know something about marriage, not only in that he has been married three times, but also, that as a one-time mayor of Neuilly-sur-Seine--he performed marriages.   Indeed, Sarkozy, performed the wedding for a couple, this occasion being the way he met the woman who was to become his second wife.

    Sarkozy still needs to shake felony charges of corruption including alleged illegal financing of his 2007 election campaign by Libya's Muammar Gaddafi who is alleged to have contributed about $70 million.  Sarkozky became the champion for military intervention in Libya, urging the UK and, then, the US to overthrow Gaddafi.  Enough to fuel questions even for those who do not ordinarily wear a tin foil chapeau.

    The French do have a more likely choice for their party's nominee, Alain Juppe.  He is running ahead, apparently, even though he was convicted of mishandling public funds and was given a suspended sentence and suspension from any public office for period of time.  

    Chelsea Clinton had a baby girl, (5.00 / 2) (#207)
    by Angel on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 08:52:46 AM EST
    Ferguson Police Chief (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 08:56:19 AM EST
    Ferguson Police Chief: 'This Is A F*ckin' Tragedy'

    Thursday night's Ferguson protests included a new twist: A white business owner pulling a gun on protesters. Here's the video of that, resplendent with sirens:

    Heh (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:41:38 AM EST
    According to protesters at the scene, St. Louis County police have joined Ferguson police in dealing with the protests, which, apart from the one gun-brandishing, have apparently been peaceful.

    Hey, what's a little gun waving among friends!!


    Yeah "hee" (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:44:48 AM EST
    those wacky black people

    Thursday night's Ferguson protests included a new twist: A white business owner pulling a gun on protesters. Here's the video of that, resplendent with sirens:

    Howdy, read what I wrote to Uncle (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:52:24 AM EST
    and apply it to yourself.

    Ohhhh, I see! (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:25:01 AM EST
    you naturally assumed an irate white business owner was "friends" with the demonstrators.  That makes perfect sense.
    Of course.  That would explain your typical racist response.

    No, and I remind you that calling someone (none / 0) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:31:29 PM EST
    a racist on this blog is a no no.

    My point was simple.

    You cannot have people waving guns around, especially in a tense situation.

    But on a larger scale your personal attack explains why Sunni and Shia are busy killing each other in the ME. Both sides are members of a religious group that has no tolerance for the views of others.

    Your religion is your politics.


    No, it isn't. (none / 0) (#80)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:38:23 PM EST
    Your religion is your politics.

    Thank you for the reminder (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:50:00 PM EST
    as they say-

    "Don't start nothin.  Won't be nothin"


    The shoe fits (none / 0) (#168)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:36:33 PM EST
    and when you call someone who posts pictures of Obama with a bone in his nose a race-baiter or racist, I'd you've found the rightful owner of the smelly glass slipper.

    PPJ (none / 0) (#23)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:51:22 AM EST
    Hey, what's a little gun waving among friends!!

    So I guess you missed this part:

    "Thursday night's Ferguson protests included a new twist: A white business owner pulling a gun on protesters."

    But that is par for your course --


    Really, Uncle (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:49:23 AM EST
    Did I say who pulled the gun??

    No, I didn't. Of course you, in your eagerness to snark and personally attack me write as if I did.

    Utter nonsense and if you have any decency you will apologize.


    Apologize for what -- (none / 0) (#72)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:11:24 PM EST
    Telling the part that you conveniently left out???

    Get over yourself.


    I left nothing out. (none / 0) (#78)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:33:07 PM EST
    You just jumped to an incorrect conclusion.

    Decency dictates that you apologize.


    Decency? Bwahahahahaha (none / 0) (#82)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:38:57 PM EST
    Decency (none / 0) (#158)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:20:18 PM EST
    dictates that you get the apology you want from your friends.

    Jackson (none / 0) (#21)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:47:11 AM EST
    So Chief Jackson does an apology video in a red golf shirt as if it's an after-thought and doesn't address the multiple lies he still propagates.

    Then he shows up at 11 at night callin' it a "f*ckin' tragedy" -- somethin' that he clearly knows is goin' to stir up the crowd.

    Then he has his goons on hand to immediately swoop in and make arrests after he has stirred up the trouble -- again.

    The most shameless thing about this whole thing to me are all the "conservative" internet sites that have gone out of their way to try to prove that all the witnesses to the shooting are lying, and  yet these same sites have excused and even applauded the blatant prefabrications that have come from the Police Chief of Ferguson, and even adding their own prefabrications to them.

    Crow eating time for a lot of these people is coming -- but they will be making excuses about that too when it swoops down on them.


    The concept of "eating crow" (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:15:01 AM EST
    seems to be an obsession with you, as you seem to write it here just about every day.

    Speaking of, are you still a Wilson-GJ-testimony-denier? Or have you dutifully filled your belly with black bird?


    Whatsa matta -- (none / 0) (#69)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:08:53 PM EST
    Are you afraid there won't be enough crow left for you???

    I'm sure you get your fair share daily.


    a denier. If so, good move.

    from the night before:
    The small community of Ferguson, Missouri, broke out in violence and looting again, with those in the streets this time smashing up the windows of a beauty supply store -- the third time the shop has been hit by looters in the last few weeks.

    St. Louis County police told local KMOV-TV that they joined Ferguson police on the scene to deal with out-of-control protesters breaking into Beauty Town and yelling, "Burn it down."

    No knowledge of this incident (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:53:05 PM EST
    and it was not me who started the business about the gunplay.

    I do find it interesting that one place was hit three times.  Might there be a back story?


    Owner sez he's lost 100K in merch during the 3 lootings. Kinda hard to believe, if you ask me, but if true, explains why it keeps getting hit.

    Speaking of back story, might there have been some interactions between the owner and the crowd before the pizzeria recording started?

    (As an aside, why do we eat pizzA at a pizzEria?)


    Let's Say He Did... (none / 0) (#129)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:41:58 PM EST
    ...what was his plan exactly, just start shooting people ?  Then without a doubt, even if he was in the right, he would be penniless after it was all settled.  His family, if he has any would have to move, live under threats I am sure, and just a whole lot of stuff rational people avoid at all costs.

    Wouldn't it just be easier to makes sure the insurance was up to date, go home, and hope like he11 his shop was fine and be glad that he's not sitting in jail waiting to be tried for murder over a cr@ppy diner.

    It's one thing to defend your place when there is an intruder, it's quit another to think you are Daniel Boone at the Alamo, and your only option is a gun fight.

    Maybe he should think about the all the traffic that is surely thirsty and hungry.  The cops got there in what, 10-20 seconds.  There is a police presence, try selling water or slices and making those lemons into lemon-aid.

    If that is out of the question, just go home and be glad your family is safe and your insurance will cover any burning to the ground business and broken windows.

    IMO, he looked like he just wanted to shoot someone and why are the cops not ticketing a man firing a gun in the middle of a city, or was that not gunfire, aka THE violence magnet ?


    that he fired a gun?

    No, Something Made a Loud Bang (none / 0) (#148)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:49:59 PM EST
    From the video, at 25 second mark, there was a loud bang and people scatter, the cop and camera person run directly to the place where the guy is with the gun.  LINK, just to make sure we are looking at the same video.

    Doesn't matter, my statement wasn't about that.  Say he didn't, statement still stands.


    Speaking as a business owner, (none / 0) (#160)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:22:35 PM EST
    the rest of your statement is too ridiculous to spend any time discussing.

    Then Why Are You ? (none / 0) (#172)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:46:55 PM EST
    You normally don't snipe comments and my comment was my opinion.

    My home, if I knew someone was coming, I would leave and let it burn to the ground before I would patrol it with a gun.  That one of the luxuries decades of insurance premiums and common sense affords me.

    Not sure why that is ridiculous, I would like to know why that is a bad option.


    That sounded like a gunshot (none / 0) (#163)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:25:49 PM EST
    to me and a whole lot off others there, including the police officer.

    And, yes, it does sound like a gunshot. (none / 0) (#166)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:29:54 PM EST
    Not necessarily true (none / 0) (#178)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:18:15 PM EST
    If that is out of the question, just go home and be glad your family is safe and your insurance will cover any burning to the ground business and broken windows.

    Many polices exclude riots and acts of war.


    15 people beheaded in afghanistan (none / 0) (#3)
    by Politalkix on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:01:13 AM EST

    The cancer of ISIS is spreading. At this time the horror of ISIS can be seen in the Middle East and Central and South Asia, it will soon likely spread in large parts of Africa. What are people going to do? Just leaving this cancer unchecked ignores the reality of cancer. Cancer spreads and so does the expansionist ideology of these psychopaths!

    Can I ask a serious question? (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:52:21 AM EST
    And I'm asking it not to be snarky or to dismiss what is happening, but I'd just be curious what you - and others - would think.

    Is it the beheadings that have people so concerned/worried/frightened?  What if they were killing people in more conventional ways - like shooting or even hanging - would people still view ISIS/ISIL/IS as any more virulent a cancer than any of the other cancers?  If people ever get "used to" news of beheadings, what fresh hell will have to be used to get us scared again?  I hate to even think about that.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't be stopped, or if not able to be stopped, at least rendered less able to advance their cause - they should - but there's this little kernel of something, a little whisper, that makes me feel like we've somehow been sucked into a symbiotic relationship with these people: they need the attention to attract more recruits, and we're so appalled by the brutality of these beheadings that we're giving it to them.  In making use of the media to get the American people on board with doing something, have we unwittingly given ISIL a boost that makes it harder to get them under control?

    Would it be easier to "degrade" them if we turned down the media spotlight they seem to thrive on, and just carried on with whatever it is that we're doing to neutralize them?  Normally, I'm not in favor of any kind of suppression of the media, but I just wonder.

    I think what's been hard for me is that the way the media is covering this is just so reminiscent of the scare tactics Bush/Cheney used to get us into Iraq; the damage those people did is still being felt, and it makes me so angry that one of them is living a peaceful life painting portraits and the other got a new heart to fill up the space in his chest and a new lease on life to devote to his evil agenda.  Damn, it's just so hard to trust, but at some point, what choice do I have?

    Pardon the rambling - there are just so many moving parts to all of this, and we're probably not even aware of some of the more complicated ones.  It can't ever be easy to be the president, and there are others in the administration with difficult jobs to do, but I can't even fathom the weight of the decisions these people are making right now.


    Beheading on video. Maybe (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:02:03 PM EST
    if the beheadings weren't filmed we could ignore them more easily.

    I think that (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:25:34 PM EST
    you're onto something there.  Videos make things up close and personal.  (After all, on a tangential note, the NFL was able to, not ignore, but at least somewhat minimize the Ray Rice thing until the video in the elevator went viral.)
    I do wonder what we would think about our ally Saudi Arabia if their beheadings were videotaped.  Granted, people could conceivably argue that those beheadings, as well as their other executions, were carried out as a result of their laws and those people had been found guilty by their courts.  But still,

    "The trials are by all accounts grossly unfair. Defendants are often not allowed a lawyer and death sentences were imposed following confessions obtained under torture. The method of execution then aggravates a situation that is already totally unacceptable," the experts said in a press release from the Geneva-based UN Human Rights Office (OHCHR).

    According to the experts, so far in 2014, at least 45 people have been executed in Saudi Arabia. Between 4 and 22 August, 22 people were executed, which represents an average of one execution per day. These included at least eight people beheaded for non-violent crimes including drug-smuggling and sorcery. Other offences resulting in beheading have reportedly included adultery and apostasy.


    Adultery?  Sorcery?  Apostasy?  Really???


    You are barking up the wrong tree (3.50 / 2) (#39)
    by Politalkix on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:25:47 AM EST
    When I see a "cancer", I criticize it in the strongest terms and am not selective in my criticisms. I am equally loud in my criticism of gun violence caused by the cancer of gun culture (killing people in "conventional ways")in America as I am about killing by beheading.

    Some of you are selective in your criticisms (same as Jim). You want to turn the spotlight on gun violence while removing the spotlight from death by beheadings. You will scream every day that it is cowardice not to confront Republicans with extreme ideology but will propose looking away and adopting a non confrontationist attitude towards barbarians like the ISIS. The ISIS is many times more dangerous than even the looniest conservative, it is therefore insane (IMO) to propose that they will leave us alone if we leave them alone. If you really believe that, you should change your attitude towards your own citizens who are not on the same political side as you are and hope that if we ignore them, things will sort itself out.


    I didn't say any of the things you seem to (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:21:52 AM EST
    have attributed to me, so I can't decide if it was just too much for you to wade through, or you just made an assumption about what you thought I would say and responded accordingly.

    I guess my mistake was in asking whether there would be as much interest in ISIS if they were killing people by other methods.  The method isn't a deciding factor for you, and I never indicated it was for me, either.  Clearly, people who can just lop off the heads of other beings have no humanity, and the world doesn't need more people like that.  To the extent the publicity we are giving them helps them in their recruitment, I think we need to consider dialing it back - but I was clear in stating we should continue our efforts to weaken them.

    In reading through the rest of the comments here, what strikes me is that much of the problem isn't religion in and of itself, it's the desire to govern in accordance with religion,and to ignore borders and existing governments.  These people are fighting to control people's lives no matter where they live, which is exceedingly dangerous and antithetical to any kind of stability.  It's getting so people can't even move to escape it.  I do think the citizens of these affected areas have to participate in the efforts to bring ISIS to its knees, and I am encouraged that other countries in the region are not just sitting on the sidelines.

    I haven't proposed that we leave them alone; denying them the big headlines and media attention does not foreclose actions by our government or any government to weaken their ability to grow and expand, does it?  I think I specifically said pretty much just that, so I don't know where you're getting these things you're accusing me of saying or believing.

    Probably no point in my having responded at all, since you apparently don't need my input to determine what I think or believe.  


    You Miss The Point (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:51:38 AM EST
    Suggesting that if ISIS used the guillotine, firing squad, and just silently disappeared its victims is really not worth the trouble to think through.

    ISIS has a major PR program, and they are very media davy. IOW ISIS uses the internet.

    From my POV, ISIS media is all about recruiting. If the western media had an ISIS blackout, many including me, would scream government censorship. Or if the government decided to write their own copy to counter the ISIS propaganda, we would all scream JUDY Reboot.

    To get involved with how ISIS hates us and wants to attack us, I believe is a red herring. The main goal of ISIS is to form a Caliphate and that requires recruits. Not much time for attacking US, UK, Et al. no matter what they say.


    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by sj on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:04:10 PM EST
    Talk about missing the point.
    You want to turn the spotlight on gun violence while removing the spotlight from death by beheadings.
    Having missed the point, you then proceed in your usual charming and agreeable fashion.

    to be fair (none / 0) (#41)
    by CST on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:30:34 AM EST
    (and I am pro-getting involved over Isis)

    There is a case to be made that you fight your own battles.  And that as Americans we have the power, responsibility and knowledge to fix our home.  I can see why people might not feel the same way about ISIS.  It's not hypocritical.  IMO, it's still wrong, as I do think we have a greater responsibility than that.

    ISIS is not actually more dangerous to the average American.


    Think again (2.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Politalkix on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:04:56 AM EST
    "ISIS is not actually more dangerous to the average American".

    What part of the world must Americans avoid to be safe from ISIS?

    The entire region from the Middle East to South Asia?

    all of Central Asia and many former Soviet Republics?

    South East Asia like Malaysia and Indonesia and even pockets of the Phillipines?

    Large parts of Africa?

    Lots of people living in blue states in America have a greater chance of visiting the mentioned regions than ever visiting Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, etc.



    really? (5.00 / 4) (#57)
    by CST on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:22:34 AM EST
    I can't believe you actually think that.

    Americans, even ones from Blue states, are much more likely to travel within the United States than they are to travel to any of the places you mentioned.  Nevermind the likelihood of being attacked by Isis is still miniscule in most of the places you mentioned.

    Even if we don't physically go to Mississippi, people in Mississippi can still impact us with respect to national politics.

    Only about 1/3 of Americans even have a passport, and that's only because you now need one to go to Mexico and Canada.  Even after that, most people tend to travel to Europe or South America.  So yes, the "average American" has nothing to fear from ISIS.

    FWIW, I fall into that tiny percentage of Americans who has traveled to some of those regions, and even then, I have way more to fear from my local neighborhood gang member, or   some gun-toting, trigger-happy person at home than I have from a terrorist organization that is based an ocean away.


    You are forgetting the fact (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Politalkix on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:58:24 AM EST
    that even to keep these terrorist organizations "an ocean" away, the government has to take extraordinary precautions through surveillance and monitoring. Europe does not even have the luxury of being separated by an ocean.

    The actions of terrorist organizations have affected the way people board domestic flights in America and Europe or international flights from North America to Europe, South America, East Asia, Australia, New Zealand, laws related to banking and transfer of money, international trade, travel, etc.  

    We are getting affected by the actions of terrorist organizations abroad in more ways than you realize.  


    I'm not saying (5.00 / 3) (#111)
    by CST on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:13:56 PM EST
    it's completely irrelevant.  But if you can't see why people would be more concerned (and rightly so) about problems at home - you're not looking very hard.

    Yea it's a global economy.  And guess what - the right wing hacks in our government are affecting the markets in Europe too.


    My take (none / 0) (#130)
    by lentinel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:44:27 PM EST
    is like yours.

    I appreciate yours.
    You are not rambling.
    Thank you for expressing your thoughts.

    My thought is that we tend to be horrified by something up close that we ignore if it is faraway - or appears as a video game.

    We killed, imo, at least one hundred thousand innocent Iraqis during the war initiated by Bush.

    I know that some people - some Americans are concerned - but not really.

    I will repeat - when Obama thanks Bush for his service, it turns my stomach.

    It is apparently too much to ask someone in the presidency  to condemn the horrific practices of the person preceding them.

    But it sickens me.

    100,000s of thousands killed - for nothing.
    And that doesn't even mention the horrific "shock and awe" campaign that left so many dead - and others without electricity, without water and without medical care.

    We let that all go.

    But finally, imo, the people upon these continuing reigns of terror have been unleashed are saying, "no mas".

    I think if we could only manage a little compassion - a little identification with people on the other side of the coin --- we might get somewhere.

    But no.
    We are determined to bomb away.
    As if that will deter little people with pressure cookers from doing their worst.

    To get back to what you said:

    Symbiosis is the word.

    ISIS knows that a beheading will be used by our leaders to draw us in. So they do that - and bingo! We're in.

    This is very appealing to weak leaders like Obama, Hollande and Cameron.

    So, ISIS profits by drawing in these weaklings - and weakening their respective countries in the process - and the weak leaders get to primp and promenade as if they were strong.

    Nobody's buying it.

    But it's happening.


    Well Anne... (none / 0) (#162)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:25:44 PM EST
    ...they are beheading for a reason, when surely they could do any of the things you mentioned.  So in this one instance, seems like the ones trying to terrify are doing it w/o the media's help.  The one time they don't need whip up fear as people are terrified of having their heads lopped off by a lunatic.

    But it is odd that beheadings are so much scarier, we are at war, isn't that how it works, we kill some of them, they kill some of us and a whole lot of people who have nothing to do with anything die with them.

    Can't say I would want to be beheaded, but I don't want to be shot either, and as terrifying as it is, at least its only a couple seconds of terror and lights out.  Better than most war victims, some of whom suffer for days and weeks, and some even live the rest of their lives with pain and disfigurement.

    The beheadings must have some sort of religious angle to them, as in not having a head in the afterlife or something to do with separating the mind and spirit.  I don't know, but the mood seems be beheading is really bad, it sure as hell scares people a lot, and that is why they are doing it.

    To counter it, we should behead death row inmates, to get the public conditioned to it, they say its safe and easy and the condemned don't feel a thing...  (bad death penalty joke).

    You want to see scared, let one of the groups start lopping off ding-a-lings, Syria would look like Chernobyl by the end of the week and the paranoid will be sporting titanium jocks, the tin foil hat of the groin.


    Beheadings are accepted (none / 0) (#191)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:31:26 PM EST
    Under certain strict interpretations of Sharia law.  As they are in Saudi Arabia.  See my comment #137.

    As the referenced link (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:34:02 PM EST
    states, the beheadings in Afghanistan, the subject of the comment, was reportedly conducted by "ISIS-allied" Muslims, alongside of Taliban fighters.  And, maybe to bolster the fear-generation, it is suggested that some of those Taliban might be re-branding to the scarier ISIS.  Worse than Taliban, because they behead?  

    As if the Taliban were always boy scouts.   Indeed, beheadings preceded ISIS and were, if anything, inherited from the Taliban.   We need to tamp down fear so as to be able to analyze and address the "cancer" and its metastasis.  And, is the spreading due to "allied" groups. And, what about Khorasan, they are supposedly even worse, although we don't know much about them. But, they probably behead, too.

     And, addressing the problem in Afghanistan, not to mention, the rest of the middle east and asia, needs an approach other than bombs and money.  After 11 years and at least $640 billion in direct spending in Afghanistan from 2002 to 2013, the effects of war and the impact of attempts at transformation are questionable.  And, a civil war cannot be ruled out within the next few years.   But, we do need to keep our heads, I agree with that.


    I had been reading that this would happen. (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:15:40 AM EST
    they pretty much expected it.  Can't blame them for feeling a bit desperate.  What would be really interesting to know is how many are taking the presidents advise and crawling back under their rocks while they still can.

    None of this can be stopped (none / 0) (#12)
    by Slado on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:23:50 AM EST
    unless the Muslim world takes control of their own religion.

    ISIS and other fanatics are acting like 8th century Muslims spreading their "religion" through fear, force and murder.

    Until the religious leaders of Islam actively confront this ideology it will continue to spread.  We in the west can only do so much.   We can't possibly killt hem all and we can't lecture them on their own religion and keep repeating the phrase..."Islam is a religion of peace".

    Muslims must defend their religion and beat back this ideology.

    Unfortunately I am not optimistic that this will happen.  

    IMHO the Islamic world as a whole has backtracked over the last few decades in terms of human an minority rights and until it stops funding and supporting the hate speech coming out of too many religious leaders mouths we won't see much of a change.

    All we can do in the West is make sure this ideology doesn't take root here and confront it when it manifests itself.   So far in Europe I give them an F on this front.   Leaders of this cult are allowed to freely spew their garbage and hate speech and the west does nothing about it.

    Either we confront this ideology or it continues to spread.

    Military force will do nothing to stop it.


    Are you not at all (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:29:07 AM EST
    encouraged by the response from the locals?  I admit I am.  A bit.  They clearly know what you said is true.  And I guess it's starting to sink in that we are not going to do it.

    I am very encouraged by locals (none / 0) (#161)
    by Slado on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:24:06 PM EST
    because I know many of them and in fact some of the ones I know are in this country to escape radical Islam.

    However it worries me when critics of Islam are shouted down as Islamaphobes for simply pointing out the obvious.

    Guess what?  In America we get to be critical and make fun of religions.  

    From Catholics, to Baptists, to Mormons, to Jews, to Scientology.   All get their moment in the sun and all get made fun of.

    So why in the world should we treat Islam differently?  

    There is no such thing as religious bigotry in this country when it comes to a critic pointing out what they believe to be a problem with your belief system.

    You have the right to believe what you want and I have the right to make fun and criticize you.

    If there is a new rule against making fun of and being critical of religions I'd like to know when it will be applied to me.  I'm Catholic and it sure hasn't been fun to be one lately.

    Islam should not get a free pass to hide behind some sort of special treatment.   IMHO the western world has been bending over backwards to not seem critial of Islam because we rightly don't want to lump it all together.   But until Islam can deal with the same level of criticism we give all religions in this country and across the western world we won't be able to truly combat the perverse ideology hiding within it.    


    Stereotype (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:29:02 PM EST
    So why in the world should we treat Islam differently?  

    Because once you start stereotyping the 1.3 billion Muslims as terrorists you create not only fear but serious legal ramifications, not to mention vigilante violence because all muslims are terrorists.

    No joke, these are serious times.


    They are serious times (none / 0) (#181)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:23:25 PM EST
    i personally absolutely do not suggest all Muslims are terrorists.  But it does not help to try to pretend that Islam does not have a problem.  They do.  It does not help to be an apologist for the fashion police who assault women or throw acid in their faces for not covering them.

    How many is a few? (none / 0) (#182)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:25:40 PM EST
    France. A new, widely-covered poll shows that a full 16% of French people have positive attitudes toward ISIS. That includes 27% of French between the ages of 18-24. Anne-Elizabeth Moutet of Newsweek wrote, "This is the ideology of young French Muslims from immigrant backgrounds...these are the same people who torch synagogues."

    Britain. In 2006, a poll for the Sunday Telegraph found that 40% of British Muslims wanted shariah law in the United Kingdom, and that 20% backed the 7/7 bombers. Another poll from that year showed that 45% of British Muslims said that 9/11 was an American/Israeli conspiracy; that poll showed that one-quarter of British Muslims believed that the 7/7 bombings were justified.

    Palestinian Areas. A poll in 2011 showed that 32% of Palestinians supported the brutal murder of five Israeli family members, including a three-month-old baby. In 2009, a poll showed that 78% of Palestinians had positive or mixed feelings about Osama Bin Laden. A 2013 poll showed 40% of Palestinians supporting suicide bombings and attacks against civilians. 89% favored sharia law. Currently, 89% of Palestinians support terror attacks on Israel.

    Pakistan. After the killing of Osama Bin Laden, the Gilani Foundation did a poll of Pakistanis and found that 51% of them grieved for the terrorist mastermind, with 44% of them stating that he was a martyr. In 2009, 26% of Pakistanis approved of attacks on US troops in Iraq. That number was 29% for troops in Afghanistan. Overall, 76% of Pakistanis wanted strict shariah law in every Islamic country.

    Morocco. A 2009 poll showed that 68% of Moroccans approved of terrorist attacks on US troops in Iraq; 61% backed attacks on American troops in Afghanistan as of 2006. 76% said they wanted strict sharia law in every Islamic country.
    Jordan. 72% of Jordanians backed terror attacks against US troops in Iraq as of 2009. In 2010, the terrorist group Hezbollah had a 55% approval rating; Hamas had a 60% approval rating.

    Indonesia: In 2009, a poll demonstrated that 26% of Indonesians approved of attacks on US troops in Iraq; 22% backed attacks on American troops in Afghanistan. 65% said they agreed with Al Qaeda on pushing US troops out of the Middle East. 49% said they supported strict sharia law in every Islamic country. 70% of Indonesians blamed 9/11 on the United States, Israel, someone else, or didn't know. Just 30% said Al Qaeda was responsible.
    Egypt. As of 2009, 87% of Egyptians said they agreed with the goals of Al Qaeda in forcing the US to withdraw forces from the Middle East. 65% said they wanted strict sharia law in every Islamic country. As of that same date, 69% of Egyptians said they had either positive or mixed feelings about Osama Bin Laden. In 2010, 95% of Egyptians said it was good that Islam is playing a major role in politics.

    United States. A 2013 poll from Pew showed that 13% of American Muslims said that violence against civilians is often, sometimes or rarely justified to defend Islam. A 2011 poll from Pew showed that 21 percent of Muslims are concerned about extremism among Muslim Americans. 19 percent of American Muslims as of 2011 said they were either favorable toward Al Qaeda or didn't know.

    In short, tens of millions of Muslims all over the world sympathize with the goals or tactics of terrorist groups - or both.



    Because you have figured out (none / 0) (#189)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:30:10 PM EST
    that no one ever clicks your links?

    J won't like it.


    Read this (none / 0) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:41:10 AM EST
    The Barbarians Within Our Gates
    Arab civilization has collapsed. It won't recover in my lifetime.

    Hisham Melhem
    Ethnicity    Lebanese
    Hisham Melhem (Arabic: هشام ملحم‎ Hišām Melḥem) is a Lebanese journalist, who serves currently as Washington bureau chief of Al Arabiya News Channel and correspondent for An-Nahar newspaper.

    Arab civilization, such as we knew it, is all but gone. The Arab world today is more violent, unstable, fragmented and driven by extremism--the extremism of the rulers and those in opposition--than at any time since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire a century ago. Every hope of modern Arab history has been betrayed. The promise of political empowerment, the return of politics, the restoration of human dignity heralded by the season of Arab uprisings in their early heydays--all has given way to civil wars, ethnic, sectarian and regional divisions and the reassertion of absolutism, both in its military and atavistic forms. With the dubious exception of the antiquated monarchies and emirates of the Gulf--which for the moment are holding out against the tide of chaos--and possibly Tunisia, there is no recognizable legitimacy left in the Arab world.
    Is it any surprise that, like the vermin that take over a ruined city, the heirs to this self-destroyed civilization should be the nihilistic thugs of the Islamic State? And that there is no one else who can clean up the vast mess we Arabs have made of our world but the Americans and Western countries?

    The writer is looking for an excuse (1.00 / 2) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:03:44 AM EST
    and he finds many and any.

    In the midst of this suspended chaos, the U.S. invasion in 2003 was merely a catalyst that allowed the violent chaos to resume in full force.


    The facts are that we had a victory and stability. But then Obama withdrew the stabilizing force, US troops, against the advice of his advisers.

    The results can be seen in the blood and chaos that have followed.


    Oh, taht's (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:31:09 AM EST
    right Bush pranced around on the flight deck declaring mission accomplished so it was "won" in your mind.

    Obama followed Bush's time line for the withdrawal but you keep ignoring that one. Anything to apologize for Bush and his incompetence and lying I guess.


    Remember all that stability (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by CST on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:32:36 AM EST
    that happened in Iraq after the victory?!?!  Those were the good old days.

    Yea me neither.


    There's always been something about (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:00:18 PM EST
    these comments from jim that reminded me of something, and I finally figured out what it was: the way some members of the  animal kingdom like to play with and fling their own poo...

    Once you make eye contact, you'd better duck, 'cause he's just encouraged to keep flinging.


    Whatever Bush did (none / 0) (#81)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:38:25 PM EST
    it was Obama who brought the troops home.

    That's not true," Obama interjected. "Oh, you didn't want a status of forces agreement?" Romney asked as an argument ensued. "No," Obama said. "What I would not have done is left 10,000 troops in Iraq that would tie us down. That certainly would not help us in the Middle East."



    So you (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:58:09 PM EST
    think he should have broken the agreement that Bush made with Iraq?

    Romney wanted to leave more people on the ground in Iraq. Probably one of the many reasons he lost the election.


    He shoulsd have listened (none / 0) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:10:11 PM EST
    to his advisers.

    BS - Your boy GWB ... (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:34:40 AM EST
    ... was the one who signed the SOFA, and the Iraqis wouldn't sign a new one with immunity.  You should let GW know he failed you.

    "immunity" (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:08:41 PM EST
    Incredible, how the detractors consider it an insignificant detail while sentient beings know it's the whole ballgame.

    I don't think I have draw a picture of what the Fox-indoctrinated genius's response would be if we had stayed in Iraq, without an immunity agreement, and, one (or, more) of our soldiers were arrested, and, held for trial by whatever government was in place at that time.


    Shooer, you should know better (none / 0) (#110)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:13:35 PM EST
    and, one (or, more) of our soldiers were arrested, and, held for trial by whatever government was in place at that time.

    As Antony said:

    I am the law and have ten legions to make it legal.


    Well, if there was anyone left... (none / 0) (#151)
    by unitron on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:59:02 PM EST
    ...in the ME who didn't hate us, that would be the perfect cure.

    The fact is that Obama was (none / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:39:26 PM EST
    advised not to.

    He chose to.

    He was President.

    We are reaping what he sowed.


    I'm so glad (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:04:45 PM EST
    you finally admit that following what the horrible Bush did is a mistake. So you actually can admit George W. Bush was awful.

    Bush/Cheney did the sowing. (none / 0) (#84)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:41:49 PM EST
    One problem (none / 0) (#164)
    by Slado on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:28:14 PM EST
    Our soldiers that are there now are working under a promise of "immunity" that was not voted on by the government.

    It was given by word of mouth.

    Suddenly such a critical standard is nto so important.

    Obama wanted out and he got out.   End of story.

    He told us what he was going to do, we elected him, and he did it.

    not worth worrying bout now and if Bush hadn't bungled the invasion in the first place there might have been more political will to stay longer.

    There wasn't, so we didn't.


    Something can be born of it though (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:45:20 AM EST
    Their leaders that have desired equality and dignity for all humans have been quashed but they can't be quashed forever.  I have hope, a very great hope.

    And here is another important (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:52:08 AM EST
    Feminist writing about the feminist failure of the Arab Spring.

    Why Do They Hate Us

    Bill Clinton seems to think we are only halfway through the Arab Spring at best.


    What A Load (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:44:41 AM EST
    None of this can be stopped unless the Muslim world takes control of their own religion.

    It is bigotry to suggest that Muslims have to be responsible in any way for criminal's who use religion to justify their crimes.

    There are approximately 1.6 billion Muslims. These terrorists are tiny fraction who have nothing to do with ISIS et al..

    Is it a white person's problem that some white people are serial killers?  Is it your problem that other's who share some of your beliefs have done bad things?

    Really Slado this is nuts. You have lost the bigger picture here.


    With Respect (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:47:42 AM EST
    i don't think that is what he meant.  Or Does the author of that Politico article.  I think the point is It's broken and only they can fix it.

    Anyway, that's my point.


    the most messed up part (none / 0) (#25)
    by CST on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:52:20 AM EST
    I think you're right - we can't fix it (although if we were smarter we might find a better way to help)

    That being said - the west had a huge part in breaking the Middle East.  They did not do this on their own.  I think it's very important to keep that in mind.  It's why I don't think the west can help very much.  We have limited credibility in that region.


    No argument here (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:58:08 AM EST
    What really struck me (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:06:59 AM EST
    About that piece I linked to is how absolutely devastating this must be for the majority of that culture, a culture that was discovering math and science when we were living in mud huts, to be dragged back to the 12th century.  

    They? (none / 0) (#29)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:02:13 AM EST
    Suggesting that they have to fix it fosters bigotry, imo. There is nothing in Islam that fosters the kinds of brutal and horrific acts perpetrated by ISIS et al.. Islam is a religion of peace.

    When people make statements that it is a Muslim problem, they are saying that all Muslims are not to be trusted.

    We have seen this before, and it gets ugly.

    IMO, it is everyone's problem to contain ISIS et al.

    When you generalize as much as Slado did and take what Hisham Melhem wrote and generalize it to a problem of everyone who practices Islam it becomes virulent bigotry.


    The Quran calls for and allows for (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:18:43 AM EST
    As much violence as the King James Bible does.  You and I aren't willing to allow the stoning of sluts though, we don't care what the Bible says :). I can't run that fast anymore though.

    If we lost our infrastructure of laws before religion though.....run!


    So true (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:27:48 AM EST
    i am surrounded by people who would be happy to stone me to death if the law allowed it.  Bible in hand.

    We are in so much trouble Capt (none / 0) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:37:32 AM EST
    If the Fundies take over the gubmint like they always talk about doing.  And then everything would be perfect...safe...controlled...or controlled to death

    Thank god it will never happen (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:39:54 AM EST
    pun intended

    I see it in my mind's eye (none / 0) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:47:21 AM EST
    You and I dead in the street when someone arrives and says, "Hey damn it, this is not what Jesus would do!"  Everything would stop, Bibles would be fetched.  The looking up and quoting of verses would take place, everyone rattling off their favorite first.  The discussions and arguments would deepen and would have to be moved indoors because you and I would be attracting annoying flies.

    Long into the night it would go, at dawn the solution would be arrived at. It is all in the Bible therefore it is all okay because the Bible is the word of God.  Nobody sinned, everyone would go home, and nobody would bury the sluts either.  It was a long night :)


    MT, the Old Testament (none / 0) (#86)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:42:32 PM EST
    was fulfilled with the birth, life, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ.

    We live under the New Testament which teaches love.

    That we often fail to meet those teachings is true. But that doesn't change the teachings.



    You say that now Jim (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:51:58 PM EST
    But that is a portion of the argument that would take place over our bloated corpses.  Others would disagree though and since the Bible is the living word of God no part of it can be wrong.

    This argument would go on and on while I begin to stink. I know this because this argument goes on and on right now.  And as I blacken both sides would have to agree to disagree.  I am still dead though, and the debate is of no benefit to me or the next slut while we are all under the authority of "The Word of God".


    No Christian (none / 0) (#115)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:18:14 PM EST
    says that we must follow the Law of Moses.

    And if you find one who claims that and claims to be a Christian then turn and run away from s/him as fast as possible.


    I'm dead Jim (none / 0) (#121)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:26:21 PM EST
    You are saying all this to some red faced guys with stones in their hands...not me :)

    I could put up links to a whole big damned bunch of Evangelicals pounding pulpits for stone throwing too, but you want to fight with them, not me.  How you guys get along right now is mostly you ignore each other and we are a nation of laws first!


    We? Who's this we? (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:52:54 PM EST
    Was that too complicated?? (none / 0) (#119)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:22:54 PM EST

    Who are you to speak for all Christians? (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:35:46 PM EST
    Now, was that too complicated?

    I just quoted the Bible (none / 0) (#186)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:29:25 PM EST
    If you can prove me wrong I'd like to see it.

    Correction (none / 0) (#188)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:30:08 PM EST
    I should have written the New Testament.

    Well (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:10:15 AM EST
    speaking only for me, the "they" in my comment was the residents of the area.  Not Muslims necessarily.  

    Yes (none / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:20:47 AM EST
    There are many who want to call this a Muslim problem, Slado and other commenters here have been promoting that meme for some time.

    It is wrong, it is bigotry of no uncertain strain.


    Your analogy is poor, at best (none / 0) (#73)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:18:58 PM EST
    Is it a white person's problem that some white people are serial killers?

    If there was a GROUP of white persons teaching the equivalent of Sharia law and if that group was attacking and killing based on their interpretation   of those laws then yes. It would be the responsibility of white people, aided by all people of all races, to wipe that group out.


    Your analogy is poor, at best (none / 0) (#74)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:18:59 PM EST
    Is it a white person's problem that some white people are serial killers?

    If there was a GROUP of white persons teaching the equivalent of Sharia law and if that group was attacking and killing based on their interpretation   of those laws then yes. It would be the responsibility of white people, aided by all people of all races, to wipe that group out.


    Kill the KKK (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:02:49 PM EST
    you are onboard?

    I have always supported (1.00 / 1) (#118)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:21:08 PM EST
    the elimination of radical groups. And that includes the KKK, the Black Panters (new and old, SDS, etc and et al.

    How about you?? Are you outraged that Holder wouldn't prosecute the New Black Panthers who intimated voters in Philly????


    The New Black Panthers (none / 0) (#177)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:13:11 PM EST
    love it when Jim breaks out the Bircher-paranoid memes. It really elevates the discussion.

    The New Black Panthers have such a huge following in this country Holder was afraid to touch them.


    The facts are they he didn't. (2.00 / 1) (#190)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:30:58 PM EST
    Yeah, all 12 of them. (none / 0) (#183)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:26:45 PM EST
    Speaking of Black Panthers (none / 0) (#199)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:47:56 PM EST
    remember the wildlife cam pic I posted the other day?   Lots of this around here and the pics show up regularly on FB.  

    but if you think the Panther pic was creepy check this one out


    It is completely Islam's problem (none / 0) (#171)
    by Slado on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:43:00 PM EST
    If the Pope was printing booklets that white serial killers used to justify their crimes I don't think for a second you'd have a problem calling him out.

    Same for Islam.

    How many countries have to practice Shariah law, before you notice and take issue with it?

    ISIS just so happens to be so extreme even the radicals within "moderate" Islam are saying they've gone to far.

    But what frightens me is the things they're saying when they aren't talking about ISIS aren't really any different.

    Until Islam states (because that's what most of the Middle East is now) as a whole reverses the trend towards a more conservative and radical form of Islam this isn't going to stop.

    No matter how many times you hide behind the tag of bigotry.


    The Pope? (none / 0) (#174)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:59:42 PM EST
    WTF? There is no central leader for Islam. Once you start characterizing Islam as a threat you have the same result as calling for a final solution to the Jewish problem.  Or the fact that many think Blacks are inherently criminal.

    A bigoted solution is nuts, IMO.

    And yes once you state that ISLAM is a problem you are bigoted.


    Then you are a bigot (none / 0) (#176)
    by Slado on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:03:50 PM EST
    and anyone who's ever criticized religion is a bigot.  Which would be every person on the planet.

    Give me a break.  Islam is not an ethnicity.

    It's a religion and as a human I can say whatever I want about it.



    It is (none / 0) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:18:26 PM EST
    and you can.  I agree.  As much as I rag on the local one it would be pretty disingenuous fro me to say otherwise.

    Just sayin.


    How does anyone stay a Catholic (none / 0) (#184)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:28:13 PM EST
    after all the child abuse, pedophilia, medieval sexual repression, obstruction of justice, money laundering, and helping Nazis escape justice?

    What do we say to all that? To err is human?


    How does anyone stay a US citizen? (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:32:09 PM EST
    touché (none / 0) (#196)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:39:09 PM EST
    I am a Catholic (5.00 / 2) (#200)
    by Slado on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:48:35 PM EST
    because it provides me with comfort and a belief system that makes me a better person.

    I do not believe there is one single path to God.

    I also believe that one can find God through Judaism, Islam, Scientology or no religious system at all.

    I can't and couldn't believe in a God that would limit themselves to one set of beliefs or ideals.  

    I personally chose to become Catholic for personal and spiritual reasons.  The biggest being that the main tenant of Catholicism is to live like Jesus and serve your fellow man.  Poor, sick, hungry or otherwise.

    As the current pope is fond to say..."We are all sinners".  The problems start when you start thinking for whatever reasons this simple reality doesn't apply to you.

    Am I ashamed of the way my church has handled the sexual abuse scandal?   Yes.  

    But the current leaders of the church are no more infallible then me and the teachings of Jesus are much bigger then them or any priest, bishop, cardinal or pope that comes after them.


    The is, has been and will be (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:53:19 AM EST
    a problem because the radical muslims are using our freedom against us. And I have no solution. But when Bill Maher understands it and lectures Charlie Rose I gave a wee bit of hope.



    ... just to regain control of Roman Catholicism's primary narrative from that ongoing RICO organization which has been masquerading as The Vatican, how exactly do you propose that "the Muslim world [take] control of their own religion"?

    Islam is no more monolithic a religion than is Christianity, Slado. And until you recognize that most basic of points, your argument for the Muslim world to get its Schitt together will remain firmly rooted in a reality-free universe.



    I agree (none / 0) (#175)
    by Slado on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:01:59 PM EST
    it's impossible to get 1.5 Billion people to agree on anything.

    However it's obvious to anyone paying attention that the Islamic world is trending backwards when compared to the western world in terms of human rights.

    Can you really argue otherwise?.  

    Maybe there is zero we can do about it.

    Maybe any country that becomes majority Islamic and kicks out their Western puppet dictator is doomed to join the 14th century.

    I would hope not.  I would hope that one day the people in these countries would realize that Islam is being used by a few radicals or elites to turn them into subjects and they'd eventually want something more.

    Once can hope.


    I think that is why those that find (none / 0) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:34:53 AM EST
    Such things abhorrent must come together in as many ways as we can manage.  The world needs a time of humanist unity, and it is beginning.

    Georgia (none / 0) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:07:51 AM EST
    now has the highest unemployment rate in the nation. Great job Nathan Deal.

    Sorry (none / 0) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:08:42 AM EST
    He will be gone (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:10:50 AM EST
    In January

    I hope so (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:18:50 AM EST
    Yesterday (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:33:27 AM EST
    In the run for Governor, incumbent Republican Nathan Deal is behind Jason Carter by one point: Carter 45%, Deal 44%. Compared to two weeks ago, Carter is up a point and Deal is down a point. Libertarian Andrew Hunt takes 4% of the vote. Seven percent remain undecided.

    Clarrification (none / 0) (#30)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:05:02 AM EST
    I wrote this yesterday:
    I have been to the ME and it varies, but I never went in deep, big cities and high traffic areas.  I felt way more uncomfortable in Turkey with what we called darth vadors, women in black with a tiny slits for their eyes in temps reaching 100F, that we saw around the famous mosques.  I suspect a soldier is going to see a whole lot, but I also suspect a person who grew up with it would see more than any of us.

    I didn't consider Istanbul part of the middle East, my point was that I found the woman's dress attire more disturbing that what I saw in the actual Middle East I visited, which included about a week in each: UAE, Bahrain, Egypt, and Kuwait.  I am not certain where turkey lies, it certainly butts up next to the ME, but I believe they are, or are trying to be part of the European Union.  

    The mosques are what, two miles from Europe, and even though we went much deeper into Turkey(Asia), Istanbul is the only place we saw the darth vaders, which thinking back, is a very poor choice of words.  And I am not even positive about what bothered me more, that we were not suppose to stare, that you couldn't tell if they were girl, woman, or man for that matter, that they were so different, or that it was nearly 100 and they were in head to toe black, literally.  I don't really know.  But I will say there are enough Muslim women in Houston wearing hijabs, that I don't blink when I see an woman wearing one.

    I just felt uncomfortable, but I agree, it was a total melting pot and I suspect with a little time, the uncomfortableness would have wore off once I got accustomed to the differences.  Some of it certainly had to do with the fact that we were visiting some very important religious places, and that stuff, even here, always put me on edge a little.

    I was a tourist and I think to understand exactly what the women's role and how they are treated would require much more interaction for a much longer period of time, like actually living in various areas.  I saw nothing that led me to believe they were treated differently beyond my own preconceived notions of women in Muslim countries dressed in a certain way.  Some of it true, some of it not.

    I once saw (none / 0) (#37)
    by CST on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:22:09 AM EST
    A woman in Boston wearing a peach colored full burka.  It was the least terrifying thing you could imagine, and for whatever reason, after that I found regular burkas less jarring.  But I agree that there is an initial negative gut reaction that I used to get, that I never got from a headscarf.  By the time I got to Istanbul I found the ostentatious display of wealth outside the burka to be even more jarring.  In Boston I have seen a few women wearing Burkas, but they are mostly African and in poorer neighborhoods.  In Istanbul, you can't see their faces well, but you sure can see their bank accounts.

    That being said, they were in Istanbul for the same reason you were - to see the sights.  The people I was with (who lived there) said that they are all Saudi tourists.  And you don't really see them outside the tourist areas (very important religious places).


    I once (none / 0) (#70)
    by sj on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:10:07 PM EST
    I once saw (none / 0) (#37)
    by CST on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 09:22:09 AM MDT

    A woman in Boston wearing a peach colored full burka.

    got the stink eye from a woman in Baltimore wearing a full burka in a black and white plaid (mostly black). She was driving the car behind me and was seriously annoyed that I stopped at the yellow-to-red light instead of sailing through.

    When she passed me I was amazed that she could express such an obvious glare with her face fully covered. But the whole incident was jarring and funny on so many levels.


    Turkey is joining up (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:24:05 AM EST
    Turkey ready to join ISIS fight?

    WASHINGTON -- Moving from reluctance to refusal and finally to acceptance, Turkey is joining its NATO allies and fellow Sunni Muslim nations in a coalition to destroy the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS). But the U.S. is still waiting for details of any new, specific, aid and is warily watching to make sure Ankara keeps its commitments.

    Turkey, often described as a difficult partner with much of the West, long has resisted being used as a launching pad for foreign troops to attack neighboring nations. Now, however, Turkey faces threats from militants who have overtaken much of northern Syria and Iraq, as well as from Kurdish separatists whom Ankara considers terrorists.

    And while Turkey has been overwhelmed by an estimated 1.5 million Syrian and Iraqi refugees, it also has been accused of harboring -- or at least helping -- ISIS militants by letting them traffic fighters, weapons and lucrative oil shipments over its borders.

    Burka (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:35:33 AM EST
    Here are two different feminist views on the Burka:

    Paternalism, Not Protection: A Feminist Reassessment of the Burqa and Niqab

    Don't be outraged for Muslim women
    Western feminists should not assume everyone's struggle mirrors their own - their obsession with the burqa has a patronising whiff


    The judgment that the veil is oppressive for women, and women choosing to wear it are oppressed, has been at the heart of Western feminists' interaction with Muslim women. The veil is seen as restricting the access, of those who wear it, to public space and as denying them of free choice.

     Groeneveld offers a counter argument to the depriving of free choice argument when she quotes Wilson's criticism of the implicit assumption about free choice. Indeed claiming that women should be free to wear whatever they want fails to "acknowledge the way in which choice occurs within contexts that are socially constructed and are thus always already constrained and limited through that context." Thus the bikini wearing women perched on her 5 inch heels enjoys as much, or in this case as little, free choice as her burka wearing counterpart.

    I don't care if a woman wants to wear (none / 0) (#54)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:19:25 AM EST
    A Burka.  I don't even care if a man wants to wear a Burka.  Tom Ford just put pasties on the runway and it looked passable to me :) The manditory Burka, the Burka or I get to publicly sexually violate you, is an action and symbol of much much deeper hidden social restrictions and second class citizenship.

    The Burden of Being Female in Saudi Arabia


    It does seem the point would be (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:26:51 AM EST
    choosing to wear it.

    Yes (none / 0) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:28:22 AM EST
    And if you choose not to wear it....God help you!

    Who Decides? (none / 0) (#67)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:01:22 PM EST
    Are you suggesting that we should just reboot the culture so that bikinis are mandatory, as they are here.

    Oh, bikini's not mandatory here?

    I see, also getting thin is not mandatory here either, or makeup...
    It is a choice.

    The issue is not so black and white as much as you care and want to relieve people who are suffering the road is not so straightforward, imo.

    I find it most interesting to read different views. The reactionary ones do not require reading nor do the liberal screams of liberate the oppressed, because the text is standard and readily  digested by reading the title of the text.

    Cultural intervention is complex, and it is very hard to put oneself in someone else's shoes. Mostly we want others to be like us, at the same time keeping their cultural flavor..  not so sure that is always the solution.


    Speaking only for me (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:25:35 PM EST
    the woman should decide.  Pretty simple.

    Oh, I'm sure the woman can decide, but (none / 0) (#87)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:45:12 PM EST
    in some regions, her choice might also get her killed, so really, how much of a choice is it?

    Indeed (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:46:31 PM EST
    my point exactly

    Yes (none / 0) (#90)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:49:23 PM EST
    But the decision is not so simple as to wear a burka or not. The decision is to be part of a society or social group.  

    For instance, if a man does not want to wear a suit and tie, he cannot be part of certain groups.

    So the decision is not so much about wearing a tie but whether or not he wants to be part of a particular group.

    People go through lots of discomfort in order to be accepted by a group, even in societies that are considered free.

    So a particular woman may or may not like wearing a burka, but wanting to belong, or feeling the need to belong is the driver.


    Seriously? (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:57:44 PM EST
    you are smarter that this.  Men are not assaulted if they don't wear suits.  Thank god.  This is an absurde comparison.

    For women in some areas it is not at all about "belonging".  It's about surviving.


    Hardly Absurd (none / 0) (#108)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:10:51 PM EST
    People do things that they do not want to do because they want/need to be part of a group.

    There are plenty of analogies beside the suit one, but the end result is that if you do not follow the rules you are out of the group.

    Rules change over time. Some don't.

    Walk around naked and you will go to jail. Walk around naked in jail and you will be assaulted.


    Oy. {headdesk} (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:10:31 PM EST
    Social exclusions vary (none / 0) (#105)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:10:10 PM EST
    Even in grade school, we practice social exclusion of each other...  And then there are the gifted cheaters, no tie, they iron nothing, their charisma dresses them perfectly everywhere :)

    Exclusion can emotionally hurt, but when it gets you killed it is a human rights violation and usually a hate crime.

    Hurt feelings aren't the same as being sexually violated or killed.

    Older women may choose to stay with what they have always done, but all won't.  Younger women may choose to dump the Burka completely, but all won't.

    Society survives clothing trends, it always has.  But what women wear would become their choice, not an excuse or reason to hurt them or violate them.


    Women do not just choose (none / 0) (#124)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:33:43 PM EST
    to wear the burka.

    They are taught that they should/must.

    Remove the teaching/demands and they won't.


    You aren't going to try to regulate (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:41:43 PM EST
    Women's clothing like you try regulate uteruses are you?  Because it sounds like once again you don't think we can choose things responsibly for ourselves.  You're sounding a little ISIL-like.

    People don't choose (5.00 / 2) (#173)
    by jondee on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:49:45 PM EST
    to believe we shouldn't try to improve anything because the Rapture's coming.

    They don't choose to blame the least powerful here for all their troubles.

    They don't choose to believe happiness is a warm gun.

    They don't choose to believe them liberals is all secret communists and secret muslims..

    We're talking about changing the way people think.
    We have a hard enough time doing that in this country.


    You could try reading (none / 0) (#126)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:37:44 PM EST
    Some of the current feminist writers Jim who live that life daily.  They have plenty of women in the region ready to make their choice...plenty.

    And they do so because they (none / 0) (#194)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:35:42 PM EST
    were taught or forced.

    I'm with Howdy (none / 0) (#85)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:42:06 PM EST
    The woman decides.

    A good article on Al Qaeda (none / 0) (#33)
    by Green26 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:17:43 AM EST
    as well as the decreasing involvement of US counter terrorism efforts against Al Qaeda. Lots of pieces of information.

    Washington Post.

    Am I just old (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:38:05 AM EST
    or is this the silly Internet meme of the week?   Disclaimer-never particularly been a U2 fan.  Own none of their music but this just seems silly

    How U2 became the most hated band in America
    "All That You Can't Leave Behind" gave the group renewed relevance post-9/11. Now they're an Internet punchline

    A third choice could be I am old AND it's the silly Internet meme of the week.

    If Anyone Cares... (none / 0) (#52)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:11:12 AM EST
    ...this is what I concluded:

    IS   - Islamic State
    ISIS - Islamic State of Iraq and Syria
    ISIL - Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant

    Wiki on Levant:

    The Levant today consists of Cyprus, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, and part of southern Turkey

    It's not clear to me is ISIL is rebranding of ISIS, or just a broader term, or both.  I am going with both.

    The republicans can put their fainting couches away, ISIL covers Syria.

    This won't go well -- (none / 0) (#55)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 11:19:42 AM EST
    Ferguson public relations representative was convicted of reckless homicide

    Devin Sean James, who is overseeing public relations for Ferguson after the Michael Brown shooting, once shot and killed an unarmed man.

    James, 32, began working for the city about two weeks after Ferguson police Officer Darren Wilson killed the unarmed 18-year-old Brown on Aug. 9.

    He has been handling media requests and overseeing Ferguson's public relations strategy, including arranging a video statement released Thursday in which Ferguson police Chief Thomas Jackson apologized to Brown's family.

    Ferguson officials knew of James' conviction before they signed a contract with him, Mayor James Knowles III said Thursday.

    Knowles said James' story of coming out of gangs and drugs to found a company has been inspiring and has given city officials an invaluable perspective....

    What's going on (none / 0) (#75)
    by jbindc on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:25:23 PM EST
    in Colorado?.

    There's still about 6 weeks to go, and things could definitely change, but what is going on with Mark Udall?

    SOP (none / 0) (#95)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:55:33 PM EST
    for the losers at Fox. They call the first woman pilot for the UAE boobs on the ground

    You must have been out yesterday (none / 0) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:59:36 PM EST
    we explored this before the thread went off the rails.  
    But yes, unbelievable.

    Yeah, (none / 0) (#103)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:07:06 PM EST
    it has been a horrible week or so at my house details of which I wont' bore you with. So I guessed i missed it. I just saw it on Facebook and thought it was news worthy.

    It just gets worse for Ferguson Chief: (none / 0) (#100)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:00:34 PM EST
    Ferguson Chief violates his own orders

    Police in Ferguson, Mo., have violated their own reporting standards since last month's controversial fatal shooting of Michael Brown by Officer Darren Wilson.

    Ferguson Police Department protocol requires that a use-of-force report be submitted after all such incidents -- lethal, nonlethal and even when barehanded physical force is used.

    A written directive signed by Chief Thomas Jackson in 2010 states "early and accurate reporting helps establish agency credibility."

    But there is no use-of-force report for the Aug. 9 shooting death of Brown ...

    Giants kicked some a$$ last night. (none / 0) (#112)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:16:28 PM EST

    f*ck the giants (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by CST on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:19:48 PM EST
    sincerely, a patriots fan

    Grin. :-) (none / 0) (#120)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:24:56 PM EST
    Ditto From a Packers Fan (none / 0) (#144)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:38:39 PM EST
    Manning beat Favre in the NFC Championship game, which was his last season as a Packer.  And F the Cowboys and Romo for screwing up another 4thQ lead that propelled the Giants into the playoffs that year.  They should have been at home suckin' it.

    Compared to last year they did look good, but the Eagles ain't no joke this year.


    You're probably not too fond of (none / 0) (#139)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:26:13 PM EST
    the Orioles, either, but all I can say is, thank God for baseball.

    Especially as the BoSox (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by jbindc on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:51:25 PM EST
    Went from winning the World Series to finishing last in the AL East.

    The only thing that makes me happier than the BoSox losing is the Yankees losing. (And both of those are true this year).


    Honestly (none / 0) (#142)
    by CST on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:32:34 PM EST
    I don't know how to say this without sounding a bit condescending - but I have no hate for the Orioles.  It's like hating your nerdy/awkward friend for finally getting a date with someone you were crushing on.  It's a lot easier to let something like that go than when your hot friend steals your boyfriend for the 10th time.

    The only teams I truly hate are pretty much NY teams.  I guess the Lakers can go in that group too.

    The Giants are the top of my personal $hit list though.  I care more about football than any other professional US sport, and I'm still not over 18-1.


    Oh, I totally get that. (none / 0) (#146)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:44:34 PM EST
    For as many years as the Orioles were no threat, except occasionally as a spoiler, what's the point in hating them?

    From my perspective, after years of Red Sox and Yankees fans swarming all over downtown, and buying up all the tickets Orioles fans weren't using because it was a waste of money to not just have to watch your team lose, but to have to put up with the most obnoxious fans in baseball, it's nice to finally be able to be able to get some payback.


    Oh good grief (none / 0) (#152)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:04:13 PM EST
    any fans swarming in your hometown are the most obnoxious fans on earth. (see SFGiants/Dodgers, 49ers/'Hawks, Yanks/Sox, etc) You should be happy that Yank and Sox fans were 'supporting' your organization and local businesses. ;)

    to be fair (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by CST on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:06:08 PM EST
    Red Sox fans are obnoxious even in Boston

    I'm pretty convinced all hardcore fans are ;) (none / 0) (#155)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:14:39 PM EST
    I know I've had my moments, lol!~ :P

    You should see the pats fans. (none / 0) (#170)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:39:20 PM EST
    Grin. :-) (none / 0) (#150)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:57:36 PM EST
    Try living in NY with the Giants being towards the (none / 0) (#157)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 03:18:05 PM EST
    top of your $hit list :P The only time I pulled for them for years, was when they played the Cowboys, lol!~ Oh yeah and there was that one SB that I kept a half and eye on as Jets fan . . . ;)

    BF was happy about the G-Men (none / 0) (#140)
    by jbindc on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:30:42 PM EST
    As we were in another part of the DC area watching the Mets lose a game to the Nats.  I'm now a secondary Giants fan, and since I never have liked the football team that represents DC, it was nice to watch the Giants kick some a$$.

    Yes, they (none / 0) (#141)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:31:03 PM EST
    certainly did.  It was a crushing defeat for Washington.

    Mulsim beheads (none / 0) (#123)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:29:51 PM EST
    fellow worker in OK.

    Supposedly he had been trying to convert people to Islam.

    Sets a new standard for proselytizing.

    You're just baiting using the Muslim angle. (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:40:28 PM EST
    just about every single day here.

    Heck, Jim chose not to point out that a guy at the facility had a gun and he saved the second woman's life by shooting the dude before he could finish killing her.


    There's nothing so far that I've read that says (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:26:09 PM EST
    the reason he attacked the woman was for religious reasons.  It seems to me he was probably suffering from a mental illness.  

    And for your insinuation that each of us baits here at TL on a daily basis is bunk.  You're delusional.


    I'm sure there will be more info coming (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 02:42:53 PM EST
    Local authorities are working with the FBI to do an extensive background investigation on Nolen, Lewis said. Law enforcement officials say they are looking into his online activities and whether a Facebook page that contains materials with terrorist and fundamentalist themes was maintained by Nolen under an alias.

    so they have to wait interview him.

    Still no justification to say this (none / 0) (#180)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:19:27 PM EST
    is a crime motivated by religion which was jim's insinuation. My comment stands.

    It was reported on TV that (2.00 / 1) (#198)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:47:07 PM EST
    he had been trying to convert his fellow workers,

    And I didn't insinuate anything. I said it.

    Police are investigating the beheading of a woman at an Oklahoma company by a man who had been trying to convert co-workers to Islam after recently converting himself, according to a local TV news report.



    The point is there is no evidence that it was (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by Angel on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:59:06 PM EST
    a crime motivated by religion.  That was your insinuation.

    Fair enough. I think the real question (none / 0) (#185)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 04:29:11 PM EST
    is whether he would have beheaded her absent his religion.

    It could be he intended "only" to kill her by cutting her throat, or something, and the actual beheading was merely a unintended byproduct (big knife or something), or it could be he intended to behead her and would not have if he was of a different religion

    We, of course, may never know.


    Ahem, Donald (none / 0) (#203)
    by jbindc on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 05:51:14 PM EST
    There's a little team called the Detroit Tigers out there, who have had the Orioles number all season (and we hope that it continues), and while the Tigers were 3-4 against the Angels, they were close games while we had some injuries.

    James@ 190 (none / 0) (#204)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 07:37:00 PM EST
    Eric Holder had nothing to do with the NBP decision, this woman may not be a social liberal, but she is definitely not a liberal:

    But when it comes to the investigation that the Republican-dominated commission is now conducting into the Justice Department's handling of an alleged incident of voter intimidation involving the New Black Panther Party -- a controversy that has consumed conservative media in recent months -- Thernstrom has made a dramatic break from her usual allies.

    "This doesn't have to do with the Black Panthers; this has to do with their fantasies about how they could use this issue to topple the [Obama] administration," said Thernstrom, who said members of the commission voiced their political aims "in the initial discussions" of the Panther case last year.

    "My fellow conservatives on the commission had this wild notion they could bring Eric Holder down and really damage the president," Thernstrom said in an interview with POLITICO.

    The criticism has focused attention not just on Thernstrom, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, but on the partisan nature of the Civil Rights Commission and on a story that, like the controversy over the anti-poverty group ACORN, has raged almost completely outside the mainstream media.

    I remember the 1988 season, in which ... (none / 0) (#205)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 10:39:38 PM EST
    ... the New York Mets had the L.A. Dodgers' number all season long. They took 11 of the 12 regular season games they played, as a matter of fact. So no doubt, come playoff time, Mets fans were salivating over the prospect of facing the Dodgers again, this time in the NLCS. Oddsmakers made them even favorites to go to the World Series.

    But unfortunately for the Mets' ticker tape parade hopes that season, they ran into Kirk Gibson in an MVP year, and also Orel Herscheiser, who was well on his way to a Cy Young award, having just closed out the season by pitching 60 consecutive shutout innings to break Don Drysdale's old mark of 58 scoreless innings, set 20 years earlier.

    Bottom line, Gibson and Herscheiser led the underdog Dodgers over the Mets in the 1988 NCLS, 4 games to 3, and the Boys in Blue went on to stun the equally heavily favored Oakland A's to win their last World Series championship.

    More often than not, regular season records mean nothing come MLB playoff time. It's all about who gets hot at the right moment.


    I am the FBI (none / 0) (#206)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 08:31:39 AM EST
    What the FBI told the Ferguson Police

    What do you bet that the police just ignore the letter and just do what they want.

    Ferguson Chief Street Appearance (none / 0) (#208)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 10:11:25 AM EST
    Brady Video II (none / 0) (#209)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 03:34:11 PM EST
    The immediate aftermath of the Ferguson shooting

    Landscapers said 3 officers were there right at the time of the shooting, and Lo and Behold, here immediately after the shooting we see 2 officers on foot and atleast 1 in the SUV having a big pow-wow next to Wilson's body.

    This has to have been immediately afterwards since even the police event report says that the 2nd unit arrived at 12:02:22.  That would be 8 seconds after the final shot.  

    So when did the third officer in that video arrive?? He's on foot and his SUV is parked on the south side of the street. Was he there at the time of the shooting???

    Landscapers said that after the shooting Wilson left the scene. Well there is Wilson in the video leaving the scene after the big pow-wow, and Brady makes note of that as well.

    Then he points out that he returns to the body where he is later photoed standing to the other cop at 12:05.

    Still no crime scene tape up at 12:05. So who put that up???

    Brady points to a 4th SUV that arrives pulling into a driveway up by him right as he starts videoing at about 12:03. It's there at the start of the BC tape circa 12:07 but has pulled away after a few minutes.

    At 12:06 when the BC tape starts Wilson and the other cop have wandered up to Wilson's SUV driver door for some reason and the crime scene tape is up all around.

    The 4th cop that the Ferguson Event Report says did not arrive until 12:10 must have done that remotely.

    So by 12:04 we have atleast 4 cops on the scene -- Wilson and 3 other SUVs.

    Who dispatched them and why are they not listed on the Event Report???