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Wednesday Night Open Thread

It's dinnertime here -- and then there's the finale of Big Brother and first episode of a new season of Survivor. I'm already missing Senor de Los Cielos and it only ended two days ago. A new narco drama is now airing on Telemundo, Senora Acero (review here), but it was so over the top violent, I doubt I'll keep watching. It's about a simple caring young mother who marries a drug dealer. He gets killed on their wedding night. She goes on to become the biggest drug lord in Mexico. Or something like that (It's in Spanish, and while there are subtitles using an antenna instead of cable, I haven't seen a detailed English plot summary.) In the first episode last night, the bride was kidnapped by black clad killers who descended on her wedding and looked just like ISIS -- it was very jolting to watch. [More...]

Since the show was filmed before ISIS came into our consciousness, I assume it's just a coincidence. But they followed it up with a brutal attempted rape by the bride's ex who just got out of prison, and some torture of the groom while he was hanging in a crucifixion position -- they then shot and killed him, and she found a hatchet and hacked off a few of the killer's fingers. It's only redeeming value so far is that some of the actors from Senor de los Cielos are in it. If they don't get to the Narco part of the drama in tonight's episode, I'm done with it.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome. Civility required.

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  • If You feel the need for mental floss (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 08:57:12 PM EST
    from all the dense and serious talk today, try this-

    100,000 STARS

    it allows you to interactively cruise around our local stellar group.   It's quite mind boggling.

    That (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by desertswine on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 09:45:09 PM EST
    is way cool.

    Parent
    Tends to make you feel sort (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:10:55 AM EST
    of small doesn't it?

    Parent
    Our galaxy is home to 100+ billion stars; (none / 0) (#77)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 12:19:09 PM EST
    Some of the globular clusters contain 100+ trillion.

    Can you imagine what the bars are like?

    Parent

    That is So Fricken Cool... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:47:29 AM EST
    ...I have been trying to find something like this in scale for a while.

    Neil deGrasse Tyson has a 13 part series called 'Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey' and there is a 2 hour History Channel special called the universe that are outstanding.  I watch them damn near every night as there is so much info, watching once or twice is not enough IMO.

    The NdT series is an homage to Carl Sagan's Cosmos series, which is very good, but so dated in regards to what we know about the Universe.

    The History Channel's Universe is like 20 episodes, but the first one, the 2 hour special goes from cave paintings related to the stars to Galileo to Newton to Einstein to the very latest multi-verse and string theories.  I only wish it was longer.  The other episodes are OK, good stuff, but pale in comparison.
    ----------------

    On my trip to Yellowstone, by brother had his spotting scope.  We were checking out stars and such one night when this lady came up with 'Night Sky' app and pointed to several 'stars' stating one was Mars and the other Saturn.

    Mars was hard to tell, but Saturn was so clearly visible with the rings.  We tried like he11 to use out camera to take a pic, no dice, but it looked very close to THIS, but just a little clearer.  It was honestly the highlight of the trip.

    There were more stars at night than I had ever seen, and I grew up on a farm in Wisconsin.  It's funny because, in one of the Cosmos shows a young Michael Faraday's pop is telling him that ghosts are everywhere around us, that you just have to look up at the night's sky to see them.  What he was saying is that because some stars are so far away, by the time their light hits us, they no longer exist and all we see is the light, a ghost of what used to be.

    That is pretty fricken cool.

    Parent

    Celestia (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 10:09:55 AM EST
    If you like traveling through the stars and planets you may want to download Celestia. Very cool...

    ... The free space simulation that lets you explore our universe in three dimensions. Celestia runs on Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X.


    Parent
    Thanks... (none / 0) (#63)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 10:56:13 AM EST
    ...I will check it out at home.

    Parent
    Little Celeste and Giant Celestia (none / 0) (#198)
    by christinep on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:41:52 PM EST
    My one-year old mini-American Eskimo dog and companion, Celeste, can be heavenly ... especially when she takes a pause from jumping, twirling, running, and otherwise throwing herself over and under anything in her way.  A lovely celestial comet from break of day to nightfall.

    O the wonders of the heavens (wherever we find them.)

    P.S. Thanks for the intro to Celestia as well.

    Parent

    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by ZtoA on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:31:10 AM EST
    Swimming in the soup of the universe. No wonder people believe in astrology, er... I mean astronomy.

    Parent
    That looks like the plaster in my swimming pool. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Angel on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 09:04:11 PM EST
    I bet your plaster (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 09:06:36 PM EST
    doesnt tag the ort cloud

    Parent
    No, but it does look like the ocean so it's pretty (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Angel on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 09:09:47 PM EST
    spectacular at times.

    Parent
    You always have the cool stuff (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 09:06:43 PM EST
    The credit totally goes (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 09:09:13 PM EST
    to my supernerd FB friends.

    Parent
    Nerds rule the world in this house (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 09:23:03 PM EST
    And well...nerds just rule the world now too.

    That's who needs to go negotiate with ISIL, nerds.  Without nerds ISIL is nothing

    Parent

    FYI (none / 0) (#121)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:52:00 PM EST
    The Oort cloud has never been seen, it's really only a theory that everyone believes.  It's where comets live and the edge/boundary of our solar system.

    Parent
    I first learned about the Oort cloud (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:07:31 PM EST
    from a NYTimes crossword puzzle word I did not know

    Parent
    Is anyone outraged that the county (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 10:41:25 PM EST
    decided to place the Tony Stewart matter b/4 the grand jury, which decided not to indict Stewart?

    No (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by CoralGables on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 11:33:51 PM EST
    Guy who should know better... (none / 0) (#22)
    by unitron on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:06:06 AM EST
    ...than to be a pedestrian on a race track, especially at night in a dark suit, gets out of his car and is walking around on a race track, darting into traffic once and being lucky and doing it again and not being lucky.

    I'd say the Darwin Award jury decided this case.

    Parent

    I read this morning that Ward tested positive for (none / 0) (#28)
    by Angel on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 08:53:41 AM EST
    marijuana at time of death.  That could have an impact when the family files the civil suit against Stewart, et al..  

    Parent
    Not outraged that it went to the GJ (none / 0) (#69)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:34:20 AM EST
    Not outraged they did not indict.

    Parent
    Obama will designate the largest marine sanctuary (5.00 / 8) (#21)
    by CoralGables on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 11:42:31 PM EST
    in the world Thursday in an area of the Pacific Ocean that will be off-limits to commercial fishing and deep-sea mining.

    The proclamation will increase the size of the Pacific Remote Islands Marine National Monument from 77,020 square miles to 490,000 square miles.

    Good news (none / 0) (#76)
    by MKS on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 12:16:23 PM EST
    That's fantastic (none / 0) (#88)
    by sj on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:18:17 PM EST
    Finally -- (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 07:46:27 AM EST
    An LEO held accountable for his insanity:

    South Carolina ex-trooper charged with shooting unarmed man during stop for not wearing seatbelt

    If a South Carolina GJ can return a bill of indictment for this LEO, then St Louis County should be able to do the same with theirs.

    From what I am hearing from multiple (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:00:52 AM EST
    sources, it is the consensus of the police departments in the St.Louis and St. Louis County area, that there will not be an indictment. They are gearing up for an all out confrontation with the AA community. Whatever action they take, no matter how draconian, they will have the support of the majority of the white population in the area. It is sad and it will probably get much, much worse.

    Not only do they feel safe from indictment, the police seem to be going out of their way to add fuel to the fire. See police brochure for class on how to manipulate the media and "I am Darren Wilson" wristbands worn by the police while arresting protesters in Ferguson.

    Parent

    Does anyone think that whatever happens (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:34:31 AM EST
    in the wake of no indictment being handed up will be limited to Ferguson, or even the greater St. Louis County area?

    I don't.

    I think there will be protests and confrontations in many cities and towns across the country.  Richard Engel may have to be called home from Syria to report on the military-style engagements taking place all over the country.

    Whole thing just sickens me.

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:42:44 AM EST
    not only that it will not just be Ferguson residents in Ferguson.

    Parent
    I didn't talk about it (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by sj on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 12:50:16 PM EST
    (I don't know why) but the week after the shooting there was a "Hands Up, Don't shoot" march here in Denver that I encountered on my way home from work. They were coming from the Five Points area which was once predominantly AA but is being gentrified.

    If it was the same group that had a vigil at the Civic Center, that was kind of a long march.

    It was organized enough that they had a police escort and my guess is that it was about three hundred people? The marchers appeared to be treated respectfully by their escort and based on the honking and thumbs up they received from commuters (nearly every vehicle) they also had community support.

    There had been talk for a long time about providing police with body video cameras but (surprise!) there had been some resistance. That resistance seems to be melting away since Michael Brown's shooting, but there is still a big question about how, and to whom the footage is available. Denver cops have a bad reputation, too. Not as bad as some other city's but it's all relative, isn't it?

    Anyway, Ferguson officials are fooling themselves if they think this is going away.

    Parent

    The decision by (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by NYShooter on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:51:41 PM EST
    St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch to not recuse himself will be the catalyst for any mayhem should the G.J. not bring an indictment.

    It, also, seems a little troubling that we're not hearing much from the Feds regarding their investigation. They're our only hope for a fair adjudication of this case, and, while its understandable that they're not revealing specific details, I wish they'd at least let us know they're working on it.

    Parent

    They are working on it (none / 0) (#98)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:56:46 PM EST
    and watching tv this afternoon it seems they are making sure they have spokesmen out making sure we know they are not only working on that but that Holder has filled the justice department with people who are not going to slack on voter and civil rights.
    I expect there will be a lot more of that in the next few days.

    Parent
    I don't think anything you suggest will happen (none / 0) (#43)
    by CoralGables on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:46:18 AM EST
    Weren't there protests and marches in (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:51:03 AM EST
    other cities in the wake of the shooting itself?

    I know there was one here in Baltimore, although it was peaceful - mainly because while the police were present, they respected the right to protest and didn't attempt to interfere with it.

    I just don't think a no-bill for Wilson is going to be greeted with a "ho-hum" - how bad it gets is anyone's guess, but I'm not hopeful there won't be protests with some violence - and overreaction from police.

    Parent

    Can't talk predict what the whole (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 10:00:53 AM EST
    country will do but North County is primed to explode.

    Many of the whites in the area are as angry if not angrier than the AA community. The police know they will be supported in any action they take.  The black people will deserve it no matter what but of course it is not about race.

    Parent

    Agree with everything you said (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:09:52 AM EST
    and glad you said it so I won't get accused of inciting violence.
    They actually seem to be itching for it.  They IMO should be careful what they wish for.

    Parent
    Is this "brochure" real?? (none / 0) (#156)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:24:47 PM EST
    Looks like a fake to me.

    Parent
    It is real (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:44:08 PM EST
    The St. Louis County Police has acknowledge that it is real and has made a statement that they were sorry if it offended anyone.

    IOW, it was the fault of those offended rather than fault of the wording on the actual document.

    Parent

    Wow (none / 0) (#191)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:22:35 PM EST
    It's real (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:38:33 PM EST
    it been known and reported for weeks.

    Parent
    if you miss that it's referring to the media as "animals," etc., and not the public.

    Parent
    Assume you know there was (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 08:29:19 AM EST
    Video of the Walmart incident (none / 0) (#75)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:57:57 AM EST
    here; it starts at about the 14:50 mark. I haven't been able to watch it, it keeps crashing for me.

    Parent
    Hard to Tell... (5.00 / 4) (#89)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:24:53 PM EST
    ...at the end because the GD news banner.  The shooting is at the 24:00 min mark.  Everything before is just the victim walking around the store.  It's like a 2 second event.  I don't see where they said anything to the young man, he definitely didn't hear it.

    I don't like cops coming in hot, clearly when the caller says he was waiving the gun around, the cops took that differently because it was a gun.  He was doing what most people do while talking on the phone, mindlessly waving around what is in their other hand, but no pointing; there was nothing threatening that I can see.

    It is a cops duty to make sure they are going into the situation and understand it, not take the word of a caller, relayed by a dispatcher.  Which did end up in this case with a man killed for no reason, but it could also leave the cop going into a situation and end up dead themselves.

    I don't like the idea that my life could end tomorrow because a cop doesn't have any sense and I has the misfortune of picking thew wrong thing in a store.  I really don't like cop after cop walking when they mistakenly kill someone instead of surveying the situation and determining if there was an actual threat.  

    Police shoots suppose to be defensive at first, not offensive, which it clearly is.  I am damn glad I am not black, at least the cops hesitate before shooting white folks.

    It will be a good day in history when cops are accountable for their bad deeds beyond taxpayer funded lawsuits.

    Parent

    Agree with just about every sentance. (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:45:51 PM EST
    At one point he did look like he was fiddling with the receiver, which is where you would ready the gun for firing, and was at times pointing the gun in front of him, etc., but no way should he have been shot.

    Parent
    The Initial News Story... (none / 0) (#105)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:17:35 PM EST
    ...made it seem like the caller was being over the top, but for that time, I can definitely see where someone could think he was loading a gun.

    The mix-up is in my mind because when anyone hears waving a gun they think it's threatening whereas he was waving it like anything one might wave while on the phone.

    It's a shame, but I think it's less egregious that the cop in SC, that guy was at least going for something, the guy here didn't even react; he was on the phone.  One cop was fired and fighting a charge, the other will still has a job.  Neither cop did the right thing it's just disturbing how varied the results are.

    Parent

    Here (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:24:57 PM EST
    That's horrible. (none / 0) (#144)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:54:33 PM EST
    There's a similar case in Pasadena, CA dating from March 2012, wherein local police officers responding to a 911 armed robbery call shot and killed an unarmed black teenager.

    It was subsequently determined by investigators that there was no armed robbery. Rather, the 911 caller -- who had apparently misplaced his backpack and laptop and initially thought they had been stolen -- later admitted under questioning by authorities that he made the claim of having been robbed at gunpoint by a black man, in order to garner a faster response time from the police.

    Well, he certainly got one. And as a result of that false report, the cops arrived at the scene already on edge and ready to engage an armed assailant, and a young black man was needlessly confronted several minutes later and sent to his grave when he cut and ran. Pasadena taxpayers are now on the hook for the $1 million civil settlement in the wrongful death lawsuit filed by the parents of the deceased.

    As for the man who initially filed the false report, he was first charged with manslaughter for having been the primary cause of the police shooting, but was later allowed to plead guilty to the charge of filing a false report once it was determined that he was living in this country on an expired visa. He's since been deported by INS.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Horrible indeed (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:06:06 PM EST
    unfortunately I think the recanting was more about CYA after the video was seen than sleeping at night.

    Parent
    The caller was (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:22:49 PM EST
    initially being over the top saying he was threatening and pointing it at people.  He has since recanted much of his original 911 call.

    Parent
    A bit too late to recant the 911 call. (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Angel on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:28:26 PM EST
    Well yes (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:31:22 PM EST
    still he did.

    Parent
    That is what I Thought... (none / 0) (#135)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:31:36 PM EST
    ...but on the tape, he's a bit over, but not what I thought when I read the original story.

    Parent
    Maybe we need to carry white flags in our cars. (none / 0) (#108)
    by fishcamp on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:23:08 PM EST
    It is working now. (none / 0) (#92)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:36:59 PM EST
    Yes, because the situations appear (none / 0) (#27)
    by leftwig on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 08:50:17 AM EST
    to be nearly identical.

    Parent
    This is interesting (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 08:39:33 AM EST
    And Fox News naturally (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CoralGables on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 08:59:16 AM EST
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:07:52 AM EST
    thats sort of unbelievable.  Even for them.  Aside from the small fact that she was never on the ground.  Their connection to anything resembling reality seems to get more tenuous by the day.

    Parent
    If anyone has any lingering doubt that (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:37:18 AM EST
    Fox has no respect for women, that should clear it up. Seems to me becoming an Arab woman fighter pilot takes courage anyone living should respect. The fact that they do not speaks volumes.

    Parent
    SSDD. Not at all surprised at this. [sigh] (none / 0) (#31)
    by Angel on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:02:03 AM EST
    "Boobs on the ground." (none / 0) (#104)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:10:07 PM EST
    Given that the folks at Fox News have been personifying the "boob" in "boob tube" for nearly two decades, such a remark is hardly surprising any more. But still, it clearly deserves an "Oy."

    Parent
    That is awesome (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:31:14 AM EST
    I will take that progress.  ISIL rumors that fighters believe that if they are killed by a woman they get no virgins in paradise. So the Peshmerga requested hands up girls, who wants to get in this fight?  

    Parent
    Seriously (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:32:58 AM EST
    is that true?

    Parent
    If it is true (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:39:09 AM EST
    It is a big move forward for women regionally.

    Parent
    The original story came via (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:37:30 AM EST
    Daily Mail and Daily Post, so.....I am going with a half grain of salt.  There was a photo of a female Peshmerga though.

    Parent
    That tidbit (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:43:42 AM EST
    is worthy of Monty Python

    Parent
    My radio chatter would have to be destroyed (none / 0) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:50:37 AM EST
    Stars and Stripes found the story (none / 0) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:47:13 AM EST
    On the ground. Great photos too

    Female PKK

    Parent

    Maybe, maybe not. (none / 0) (#45)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:47:16 AM EST
    But despite rumors that ISIS is afraid of female soldiers and pilots, the opposite turns out to be true. As Vox has noted, ISIS itself has all-female battalions, called "al-Khansaa" and "Umm al-Rayan," that operate in Syria. "ISIS female fighters wear full burqas and carry rifles; they exist to force other women to comply with ISIS's vision of sharia law," Vox reported.

    Link

    I think they could have female battalions for the purpose of sharia compliance and still be fearful that men dying at the hands of a woman would deny them access to all those virgins in paradise.

    Parent

    This Video Shows... (none / 0) (#56)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 10:10:07 AM EST
    The unnamed woman risked her life by hiding a camera in her niqab and filming daily life in Raqqa. The footage shows a mother escorting her children to a playground with an AK47 slung over her shoulder; an encounter with a man who tells the woman filming to dress more decently because "God loves women who are covered"; and an all-women internet café where French women who joined ISIS explain to their families abroad why they're not coming home.

    LINK

    My chest tightens just watching it, but there is a woman clearly carrying an AK-47.

    Parent

    Al-khansaa started out as a way (none / 0) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 10:26:26 AM EST
    For fighters to obtain wives.  Last tally their functional number was 60, because there has been a lot of sexual abuse among them too.  But the burqa wearing has become a strategic problem because ISIL enemies would just show up at checkpoints in burqas and kill all of them.

    I don't see an ISIL female fighter being any kind of real battlefield equal because of what the ISIL men do to them physically and emotionally, and covered in black from head to toe has fight drawbacks.  The burqa giveth and the burqa taketh away.

    Parent

    Emirate women (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 10:07:58 AM EST
    have much more freedom than in many other Arab states.  Having worked and stayed in UAE for long periods, I found that it was rather routine to find women in governmental and other administrative positions.   UAE women are able to take advantage of education and enter the workforce. *boys and girls are separated in schools.)

    However, the fundamental role of women remains for home-making and and child-rearing.  I recall one elder in Dubai who was very supportive of education for women, but he saw its value as being, essentially, to make better mothers--since the women, he maintained,  were responsible for  children in their formative years.  

     Non-Arab or expat women have the same freedoms as they enjoy in their native countries (about 20 percent of the UAE population is "locals" and the remainder is expat--unskilled laborers to skilled professionals.

    Parent

    Thank-you, KeysDan. (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by vml68 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:26:20 AM EST
    My parents lived in the UAE for 50 years and my sibling and I grew up there. I get really annoyed when I keep reading uninformed and ignorant comments that generalize how all women live and are treated there.
    With the "locals", I have found that the attitude toward women in the work force depends on the family. I know women who were sent to the US and UK for college and are very successful professionals.

    I have relatives in Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia. We had friends from Iran and Iraq and my dad's business partner was from there. So while I am no expert on the ME, I am familiar with life and attitudes there.

    Parent

    I have friends in Saudi Arabia right now (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 12:47:59 PM EST
    And at the Iraqi embassy, and in Kuwait and Qatar.  Some of them are even women, on the ground there. My husband was in the UAE and Qatar two years ago with CentCom.  Things in the ME changed in the past 40 yrs dramatically.  Social evolution in some areas rolled backwards.

    To pretend misogyny in the ME is a thing of the past, and female genital mutilation and honor killings, to pretend that every day is roses for the women of the Middle East is just like saying the South really isn't racist anymore.  And those of us who grew up here have such fond memories that hateful uninformed people are smudging.

    Parent

    Misogyny isn't even a thing of the past (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:02:16 PM EST
    in this country, sad to say, but I don't think that acknowledging the progress that has been made and the opportunities that are now available means anyone is pretending there isn't still a long way to go.  I don't think anyone's closing their eyes to that.

    And, as an aside, I have no idea what your last sentence means; maybe I don't want to?

    Parent

    link (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by ZtoA on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:28:09 PM EST
    Bull$hit Anne (2.25 / 4) (#106)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:22:29 PM EST
    Vlm's whole fit at me is about my husband witnessing Iraqi women so held back from being self actualized human beings that it hurt his heart.

    That's her whole miff

    That an "invader" would notice that things weren't so great long before he showed up.  That an invader through fickle luck of birth would come from a culture where women were allowed to be, feel, and have so much more of their authentic selves.

    Parent

    OMG, you just can't stand it when (3.00 / 6) (#122)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:53:01 PM EST
    anyone dares to relate anything from their own experience that conflicts with whatever you've ordained as The One and Only Opinion That Matters.  

    That was obvious when you had to try to win last night's hissy fit with "I just talked to my husband" BS, and just now when you had to make sure we all knew that you had "friends" in the region.

    Well, so fking what if you do?  Why do your opinions and your vicarious experiences always have to trump everyone else's real ones?  You're not the slightest bit interested in anyone but yourself, except for the few sycophants dysfunctional enough that they don't know how badly you're using them.


    Parent

    Seriously (4.00 / 3) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:00:37 PM EST
    you know I have actually been trying to be nice to you.  I agree with a lot of what you say but suggesting me or anyone else is being "used" by MT is just hilariously unhinged.
    Please take a breath.  

    Parent
    I'm fine with relating (none / 0) (#179)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:02:57 PM EST
    But that wasn't what it was

    Parent
    And win what (none / 0) (#182)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:05:21 PM EST
    Reality and truth sort of stand alone

    Parent
    ::slow clap:: (3.00 / 2) (#126)
    by sj on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:07:14 PM EST
    Spoken like a non-brown person.
    Vlm's whole fit at me is about my husband witnessing Iraqi women so held back from being self actualized human beings that it hurt his heart.

    That's her whole miff.

    It is practically 19th century missionary mentality: those poor brown people just need a little bit of white (wo)men's civilization, and I'm just trying to bring it, doncha know.

    And the twisting of vlm's words to meet your preconceptions is also 19th century thinking. It's the "I know what you need so don't worry your pretty little head" patronizing crap.

    The very same crap you rightfully do not want applied to you and to your thoughts you are happily tossing out. No, that's not right. You are viciously tossing it out.

    pffftt...

    Parent

    Unbelievable....unhinged (5.00 / 3) (#181)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:04:00 PM EST
    Unhinged (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by sj on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:41:14 PM EST
    You are indeed. You get that way any time someone dares challenge your assertions.

    Parent
    And now you are Jim (3.50 / 2) (#200)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:59:55 PM EST
    "I know you are but what am I?"

    Parent
    Wow (4.00 / 3) (#133)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:28:55 PM EST
    Looks to me like you are calling MT a racist. And a nasty one at that.

    WOW double wow.

    Parent

    Nope, not I (5.00 / 2) (#208)
    by sj on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 07:11:35 PM EST
    Looks to me like you are calling MT a racist.
    That is your accusation, not mine, and, not that you care, I really hate the way you put words in my mouth so you can have the argument you want.

    But, between you and me: Do you think that it is racist to make judgments about another culture based on my assumed superiority of my culture?

    If so, then you are the one calling her a racist. I, however am calling her as ridiculously clueless, and unsophisticated and as patronizing as the well-intentioned missionaries of the 19th century.

    And even then, it is only when she gets unhinged (her word of choice) that she gets to that level.

    What I think, what I really, really think, is that we here in the US of A have no moral high ground when it comes to abuse of women. Stoning (stereotype alert) may not be the method of choice, but they are still just as dead.

    Parent

    That last sentence had me (none / 0) (#123)
    by sj on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:58:30 PM EST
    completely baffled. I know what all those words mean... just not in that order.

    Parent
    I stated in our exchange (4.50 / 6) (#97)
    by vml68 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:55:58 PM EST
    last night that I was not going to engage you and I mean to stick with it. I will respond to this one comment and that's it.

    I have never stated or pretended that misogyny is a thing of the past in the ME. It is not a thing of the past in any part of the world that I am aware of, including this country.
    The ME has its fair share of problems and I won't and have never glossed over it. First of all, while we lump all the Arab countries as the ME, there are quite a few differences between the Persian Gulf countries and Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc.

    Till less than a 100 years ago,the Persian Gulf countries they did not even exist as the countries they are today. The people still lived in tents and mud huts. When my dad moved to the UAE in the early 60s, they got water for one hour a day and it was brackish water. No amenities, no facilities. There were no proper schools, hospitals, etc. As a brown man, he was not allowed to stay in the same housing as his white colleagues. The changes in that country in just 55 years is astounding.

    How long did it take for the US to give women the right to vote? For slavery to be abolished?  
    And yet, you feel you have the right to demand that these countries meet your standards on your timeline. Your earlier comment of "I will take that progress" only underscores to me just how out of touch you are. Seriously, how magnanimous of you. Why don't you go give the natives a pat on the head while you are at it. I am sure they will be thrilled that the white lady approves of their progress.

    Progress takes time and I believe that the ME as a whole (Some countries are going to get there a lot faster than others) will get there eventually, provided the US does not bomb the area back to the stone age again and again. I believe the region should be left to determine how they get there. It will be bloody and it will be ugly, but it is their right to determine their future.

    If the US is so concerned about being attacked, then we need to use all our intelligence/spying/surveillance resources to prevent that from happening here. If we really care about the people in the ME, then all the money being spent on bombing needs to be spent on humanitarian aid.

    I am sure you know people serving in the ME, but the perspective of a "bombing/occupying force" is very different from those that are on the receiving end of it.

    Parent

    You lie (3.17 / 6) (#103)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:09:30 PM EST
    The last thing I do is lump.  I understand more regional difficulties than almost anyone who posts here because I read, I listen, I learn.

    And if ANYONE knows progress takes time IT IS ME.

    And how lowlife of you to clump all military in as a bombing/invading force when we are guests of the highest order in Qatar and Saudi Arabia.  And in dealing with ISIL we are very welcome to the table.

    I can't undo what Bush did, but this family had the brass to see it through and we are still in.  So is my crazy brother-in-law, and we are not a bombing invading force and almost all of the arms your countries that you have such a deep attachment to were provided by who?

    I am a feminist first, and nobody understands better that progress takes time, but if you can't make honest assessments you won't facilitate much progress.

    And hey, maybe that it isn't who you are, but that is who I am.  And in every challenge I seek what women gain, because I have granddaughters and this world is only getting smaller.  Everything that allows women to self actualize, find that true fire within, that's what I'm about and for.  Sorry if my pushing and nudging gets on your nerves, but nothing changes without it.

    Parent

    Oh, wow! Aren't you special. (4.43 / 7) (#110)
    by vml68 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:28:25 PM EST
    I understand more regional difficulties than almost anyone who posts here because I read, I listen, I learn.
    And if ANYONE knows progress takes time IT IS ME.

    When are we erecting a statue in your honour?

    Good-bye for the last time.

    Parent

    I care (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:32:38 PM EST
    I read everything I can find...all the time.  Because like many individuals who are our leaders, the center of the world for this time is the Middle East.  So yes....yes I do

    Parent
    Oh dear gawd (5.00 / 5) (#138)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:44:30 PM EST
    You read so somehow that means you know more than the people who have actually lived in the area. You and you alone are the expert on the Middle East. The people who have lived there in the past, who have family members in the area or who live there now don't know what they are talking about because their actual knowledge of the area disagrees with your preconceived notions developed by reading.

    The ME is a very big geographical area but all people in the ME are the same to you.

    It might surprise you to know that many men raised in the ME treat their wives a whole lot better than some of the white men here in the states who knock their wives around on a regular basis and restrict their activities so that they can control them better.

    Parent

    My comment above (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:39:27 PM EST
    was intended to respond to the astonishment registered by the likes of FOX to women pilots as a part of the UAE airstrikes.  As noted, my experiences and observations were such that it was not a surprise to me. The UAE is attempting to diversity its economy beyond oil and gas as a result of some enlightened leaders. Tourism, for example, is accelerating the pace toward modernity.

    The middle east is a large geographical area and the character and degree of the conservatism does vary.  However, the cultural traditions can vary substantially within the small confines of a classroom.   For example, within a classroom of college women (called girls, and young men, boys), the attire of students may range from Western dress to the most complete burqa. When I, or any male, would walk into the room, I would hear clicks-a noise from  the closing of little "venetian blinds" over the eyes.  The male professors were exempt, however.  

    Parent

    I agree the cultural traditions can vary (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:15:24 PM EST
    within regions, cities, classrooms and even within families.

    Things are changing throughout the ME. Some areas are more advanced than others. At times it is one step forward and two steps back but things are changing. Some simple things like the young people in Tehran pushing the envelope on what is and is not acceptable dress and behavior and larger accomplishments like electing a more moderate president.

    From my experience, the vast majority of the men and women who were born in the ME who now live here treat their families very well. Their children, both male and female, are well educated. Their wives and daughters pursue advanced degrees from some of the best colleges. Their husbands and fathers support them in their endeavors and are very proud of their achievements.    

     

    Parent

    No they aren't (2.67 / 3) (#177)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:00:55 PM EST
    You must not read anything I write, maybe it's better you don't.

    But here

    A very important writing by a female Muslim from the Middle East.

    Not that you would read anything like this.  Or the writing that this was in response to.


    Parent

    Yes, my statement is very much true (5.00 / 3) (#195)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:36:14 PM EST
    I see how well they are treated on a regular basis. I have seen men raised in the ME help their wives cook and clean. I have seen a man raised in the ME take off work to stay home with a brand new baby so that his wife could finish her Masters Degree. I have seen how much time and energy they put into their children and their activities and how they cherish their daughters as well as their sons. I see proud men who were raised in the ME support (both physically and mentally) their wives in obtaining higher degrees or in their business ventures and proud fathers who send their daughters to some of our most elite colleges to obtain PHDs.

    So the fact that some women are abused by men from the ME does not make my statement untrue. It is also a fact, so let me repeat it for you.

    Many men raised in the ME treat their wives a whole lot better than some of the white men here in the states who knock their wives around on a regular basis and restrict their activities so that they can control them better.

    Parent

    If only (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by sj on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 06:29:44 PM EST
    No they aren't (3.00 / 2) (#177)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:00:55 PM MDT

    You must not read anything I write

    I would adore an "ignore" feature.

    Parent
    Really really? (2.25 / 4) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:29:59 PM EST
    Really? (1.33 / 3) (#117)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:32:43 PM EST
    Good-bye for the last time.

    Hope you mean it this time.

    Parent

    And dont let the door... (2.80 / 5) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:37:42 PM EST
    Yes (3.33 / 6) (#115)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:31:38 PM EST
    And snooty too... what I really never get with this commenter, Anne and some others, is that they get all fainting couch over perceived slights, insults to them and others yet never hesitate to hurl invective and insult to others.

    Guess they feel that they are better and have earned a special right to act uncivil whereas everyone else has to be polite and respectful to them and those they are emotionally attached to.

    Parent

    c'mon vmi is our foreign correspondent (5.00 / 3) (#124)
    by fishcamp on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:00:08 PM EST
    Why would someone like vml, (5.00 / 4) (#127)
    by jbindc on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:07:57 PM EST
    Who's actually LIVED in the Middle East know anything?  <snark>

    Parent
    This whole argument (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by CST on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:13:36 PM EST
    reminds me of anyone talking about "problems in Africa" or how things are "better in Europe".

    The ME is a big place with millions of people and many different countries and cultures.  The idea of making blanket statements one way or the other about the "culture" of a place that big, with that much history, is kind of infuriating.

    Parent

    So True (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:23:48 PM EST
    But, too bad it is so infuriating, as most of us speak from our own perspective about the world we live in..  

    OK with varying bits of certainty.

    Probably the certainty is what gets people riled up, particularly when their experience is very different.

    Parent

    Exactly right (5.00 / 2) (#205)
    by sj on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 06:34:20 PM EST
    Probably the certainty is what gets people riled up, particularly when their experience is very different.
    Assertions and proclamations based on sources such as the Huffington Post, while refusing to take input from the life experiences of others.

    Parent
    We try to speak from our own (3.00 / 2) (#140)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:46:08 PM EST
    experience, believing that it adds something to the conversation and to understanding - and for most of us, almost always with the clear representation that we are only speaking for ourselves.

    Given that we've tended to be receptive to Tracy's perspectives on the military and war and strategy, because we know that while she isn't the one having the actual experience, she's close enough to it to bring credibility to her comments, you would think we might be accorded the same respect.

    And there are many people here who do - but Tracy isn't one of those people.  How you can sit there and seek to define a standard that you clearly are not holding Tracy to is a mystery to me.  

    We have so many opportunities here to learn from each other, but apparently it is too threatening to an imaginary position at the top of the mountain to risk actually exploring those opportunities and having to admit that someone else might know something we don't.  Or that their experiences can even be valid.

    I don't know what you're throwing into that cauldron you all are tending, but the toxic fumes have clearly affected you, and sadly, they are wafting out into the common areas.

    Parent

    I Would Add... (4.40 / 10) (#159)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:30:28 PM EST
    ...that nearly everything Tracy posts is second hand, she's not been in the military and she's not been in the Middle East.

    If I was married to someone that worked at Halliburton would I somehow become a logistic expert in Iraq ?  Well if I insisted, dropped names, and told everyone 'I read more than you'.  At least those are the credentials Tracy has, with the occasionally mysterious implication that she is privy to information none of us have.  Which is either BS or illegal.

    She is what I would call a Fox News expert, someone who knows a whole lot about stuff they have haven't done, certainly someone who knows more than people with differing opinions of people who have actually experienced what they speak of.  And loves to slam them as nmt knowing what they speak of.

    She has not spent one day in the military, nor has she never offered any sort of detail about what her man does, is he an officer, or grunt, where exactly is the second hand expertise coming from in Alabama ?

    Her credentials are practically non existent and when put up against someone with a lot of years of actual experience, I tend to go with the person with real credentials, not ones whose have been earn through reading, a relative, or some other indirect form.

    I have been to the ME and it varies, but I never went in deep, big cities and high traffic areas.  I felt way more uncomfortable in Turkey with what we called darth vadors, women in black with a tiny slits for their eyes in temps reaching 100F, that we saw around the famous mosques.  I suspect a soldier is going to see a whole lot, but I also suspect a person who grew up with it would see more than any of us.

    Parent

    I loved Turkey (5.00 / 3) (#165)
    by CST on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:39:17 PM EST
    Istanbul especially, the presence of "darth vadors" aka Saudi tourists with their crazy expensive purses and sunglasses, all mixed in with European teenagers wearing booty-shorts was kind of awesome.  The Turks we met were all over the spectrum with regards to clothing-style, although no burkas.  Everything about Istanbul screamed melting pot to me, and I love that.  Plus the food was AMAZING and the architecture is stunning.

    Is turkey considered the middle east?

    Parent

    Yes, Turkey is (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:17:29 PM EST
    Although the definition of "Middle East" is rather fluid.

    Parent
    Turkey IS Fabulous (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:29:10 PM EST
    I have a friend who went to visit. She fell in love with the place, quit her fancy NYC job, and now lives there, Istanbul.

    Parent
    Right now, Turkey is (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by christinep on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 06:11:34 PM EST
    caught in-between westernization and the growing push there for strict Muslim standards.  Erdogan especially feels this tug ... and the tug becomes all the more tense with the highly reported pathway for $$$ and arms for ISIL at Turkey's border with Syria.  In the meantime, Turkey is welcoming many thousands of Syrian refugees fleeing ISIS/ISIS as they relocate to camps.

    Turkey appears to hold a special place in peoples' spirit, variously described as fabulous or fantastic.  But, the pressure from extremists such as ISIL should be expected to increase as Turkey has now tentatively agreed to increase its support to the effort spearheaded by the US (as well as other ME countries now) to seal off that border arms exchange.  It should be expected to get more tense, more troublesome, etc.

    Parent

    I visited Turkey this past summer and was there a (5.00 / 2) (#203)
    by Angel on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 06:15:31 PM EST
    total of one week visiting Izmir and Istanbul.  Had a local guide who is a native Turk and his father is a diplomat. Oh, and the family are Muslim and I learned a few things about Islam. Ate some damn good regional food, too.

    I'm an expert!!!!  

    Parent

    Double Standards? (4.00 / 3) (#147)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:03:32 PM EST
    We try to speak from our own experience, believing that it adds something to the conversation and to understanding - and for most of us, almost always with the clear representation that we are only speaking for ourselves.

    How can you speak for yourself and claim to represent most of us?

    And as far as MT goes, and vml68 both appear to be representing the scene in the ME, or a scene.

    From my perspective, vml68 claims to know something, and sj is convinced it is true, because s/he has lived there.

    Seems to me this is about the McCoys and the Hatfields, because some here are defending vml68 for the same reason they are castigating MT..  that she is the true expert, and MT is falsely claiming to be an expert.

    I get really annoyed when I keep reading uninformed and ignorant comments that

    You do not seem to have a problem with vml68's claim to truth,
    why's that?


    Parent

    I'm not speaking for anyone else; (4.00 / 3) (#199)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:59:36 PM EST
    as usual, you have leaped to a conclusion and drawn an inference that isn't there.  When I referred to "most of us" it was in connection with what followed that phrase: "almost always with the clear representation that we are only speaking for ourselves." In other words, most of us express our opinions, and relate our experiences only in terms of ourselves.  

    But some people tend to just make pronouncements and declarations: what they say may be based on their own experience, but there is no room for anyone else's.

    What I find kind of interesting -  and maybe it's the result of having met MT in real life - is that you've reduced what vml said to a claim, and appear to have accorded what MT said as authoritative.  Much of MT's experience is vicarious, filtered through her husband, so that doesn't seem quite right.

    And then, after MT raked vml over the coals for daring to offer something different from what MT was saying, more or less calling her a liar, you and Howdy cheered and encouraged vml leaving.

    I have always found vml to be a kind, thoughtful commenter, with a great sense of humor, and instead of remembering that, you and Howdy chose to pile on MT's uncalled-for savagery.  I was, frankly, appalled.

    Parent

    Let be very clear about (4.20 / 5) (#202)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 06:12:10 PM EST
    what actually happened ok.  MT was discussing a phrase used in the ME and the other commenter jumped in with this -

    I am sure the natives appreciate the condescension. Your husband might want to work on his Arabic and his cultural sensitivity.

    Which was first Bullsh!t based on the actual translation as I linked to and pointed out but was also an uncalled for personal attack which that commenter loves to do.  I called bullsh!t because that's what it was so let's end the freaking pity party ok.  MT did not start this and neither did I.  You want to attack and insult? v-whatever wants to insult and attack, go for it.   You will get as good as you get.

    Parent

    oy (3.00 / 2) (#206)
    by sj on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 06:47:48 PM EST
    From my perspective, vml68 claims to know something, and sj is convinced it is true, because s/he [vml] has lived there.
    Absolutely clueless. As usual. I actually started pointing out where, but there were so many facets of wrongness in that one sentence I had to laugh.

    One clueless clause. It's almost superhuman how many aspects of life with human beings you were able to insult with it.

    Well done. Did that take practice, or planning, or is it a natural talent?

    Parent

    Knowing Anything Is Not the Problem (none / 0) (#132)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:26:01 PM EST
    The problem is assuming you know everything or most everything.

    Experts.

    Parent

    We Are All Foreign Correspondents (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:20:08 PM EST
    And, truth be told, no one speaks for everyone who share a locale.

    Except for me, on occasion.. haha

    Parent

    True squeaky and since (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by fishcamp on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:32:12 PM EST
    Braveheart was made in 1995 and Mel didn't have his drunken anti-Semitic break down until 2006...well I just had to get that in ink, here, now.  Hate is a four letter word ye ken.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#143)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:54:27 PM EST
    I stopped with him long before Braveheart..  

    Mad Max and Road Warrior is where I left off.

    should give Braveheart a go...  

    I am a fan of Wagner, and he was virulent anti-semitic.  

    Parent

    Anti-Semitism was fashionable ... (none / 0) (#163)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:39:04 PM EST
    ... back in Wagner's day, so his personal conduct in that regard was representative of the times in which he lived. No so much any more, in Mel Gibson's time.

    Braveheart is a decent movie, and several of its battle scenes are actually quite spectacular, especially when seen on the big screen. But I think it loses some of its impact when seen on TV, and I also found a couple scenes to be gratuitously homophobic and regrettable.

    As far as historical movies about Scotland are concerned, I actually preferred Michael Caton-Jones' 1995 film Rob Roy, which was loosely based on the life and times of Robert Roy (Raibeart Ruadh) MacGregor, an 18th century Scottish outlaw and folk hero. It starred Liam Neeson, Jessica Lange, John Hurt and Tim Roth, who received a well-deserved Oscar nomination for his supporting role as a very fey English dandy, whose ruthless and deadly conduct thoroughly belies his mincing affectations.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Yikes, Fishcamp. I am almost afraid (5.00 / 4) (#145)
    by vml68 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:01:58 PM EST
    to ask if that was snark. I would love to claim being an expert on the ME. But, that would be far from the truth.

    As CST said in another comment, the region is vast and varied so it is really foolish to generalize and assume that everyone lives the same way or has the same attitudes. I can only share my perspective from having lived there.

    Parent

    For someone who has uncivil down to a fine (5.00 / 5) (#142)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:54:00 PM EST
    art you sure whine about others being uncivil.

    Your normal tactic is to lace the majority of your comments with insults, projecting your actions on to others and then complain about personal insults.

    Can't think of anyone else on the blog who has been asked to take a break from commenting more than you due to your attacks on other commenters.

    Parent

    BS (3.00 / 2) (#153)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:13:59 PM EST
    I could care less about people being uncivil, that is certainly not my complaint, as much as you would like it to be.

    what I really never get with this commenter, Anne and some others, is that they get all fainting couch over perceived slights, insults to them and others yet never hesitate to hurl invective and insult to others.

    Acting as if you are the only one with manners and then eating with your hands, that is far worse than having bad manners, imo.

    Parent

    You are sure an expert on BS (4.00 / 7) (#157)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:25:38 PM EST
    Once again you insult people on a regular basis. So much so that it is what you are known for on this blog. Your SOP is whining about personal insults being directed at you after you have projected each and every one of your less desirable personality traits onto others in your comments.

    Parent
    You Are Making Sh!t Up (3.00 / 2) (#158)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:28:51 PM EST
    Guessing you are sticking with your own narrative. OK

    Parent
    Oh, he!! no (5.00 / 2) (#207)
    by sj on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 06:54:05 PM EST
    You Are Making Sh!t Up (none / 0) (#158)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:28:51 PM MDT
    MO is right on the money. You regularly  accuse everyone around you with the very behavior that you are currently exhibiting, all while laughing maniacally about mirrors.

    I guess you don't realize that the mirror you are using is belongs in a fun house.

    Parent

    Nope telling the truth (4.00 / 3) (#160)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:31:17 PM EST
    I leave making things up to you as you also have that down to a fine art.

    Parent
    Don't mean to be snooty. (5.00 / 5) (#155)
    by vml68 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:22:52 PM EST
    And you will never find me headed for the fainting couch. I can give as good as I get but that does not mean that I want to do so.

    I prefer not to engage MT or you because past experience has shown me how it ends.....blog clogging and both of us looking ugly. And, I am pretty sure the other posters are not enjoying the back and forth either.

    I am pretty open to judgements and criticisms from most of the posters here because I value their input and their perspective. Drama, histrionics and hyperbole is a bit much for me.

    Parent

    Well, just please don't leave us vmi... (5.00 / 7) (#190)
    by fishcamp on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:18:41 PM EST
    If I remember you lived in Spain and England which means you have been all over the places we want to visit.  I'v been to Europe thirty times but mostly in the Alps so I love your information.  Don't let some grumpy people get to you.  I value your comments above most others.  I did sneak away to Rome and Malaga but the ABC bosses found me and sent specific threats like, get home or no workee.

    Parent
    Fair Enough (none / 0) (#164)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:39:13 PM EST
    Not sure why MT pissed you off so much though. I do not doubt what her husband has heard Iraqi people say over dead people is accurate.

    Your experience of the term Insha'Allah, seems 100% credible to me too, no reason why you would make it up.

    So why the invective to MT? From my POV, and maybe there is previous baggage I am unaware of, but after her comment about Insha'Allah,  you slammed her, which started this ongoing fight.  

    Seems to me both of you have a lot to offer, I do not get it.

    Parent

    If you think they both have a lot to offer (5.00 / 6) (#176)
    by nycstray on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:00:26 PM EST
    why did you go and applaud her leaving and weigh in heavily in MT's favor? Couldn't you have been a bit more, um, diplomatic? Or just stayed out of it?

    Parent
    Things Change (none / 0) (#185)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:07:26 PM EST
    And she's still the first one (none / 0) (#82)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 12:39:06 PM EST
    Eric Holder to resign, per NPR (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:53:42 AM EST
    Just coming over the wires, so no link.

    Here's the NPR story (none / 0) (#51)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:58:19 AM EST
    and the link:

    Eric Holder Jr., the nation's first black U.S. attorney general, is preparing to announce his resignation Thursday after a tumultuous tenure marked by civil rights advances, national security threats, reforms to the criminal justice system and five and a half years of fights with Republicans in Congress.

    Two sources familiar with the decision tell NPR that Holder, 63, intends to leave the Justice Department as soon as his successor is confirmed, a process that could run through 2014 and even into next year. A former U.S. government official says Holder has been increasingly "adamant" about his desire to leave soon for fear he otherwise could be locked in to stay for much of the rest of President Obama's second term.



    Parent
    Getting out just in time (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 12:33:50 PM EST
    to avoid the fallout from the Ferguson situation.

    Parent
    Or maybe, he's both seen and had enough. (none / 0) (#112)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:28:50 PM EST
    Perhaps Ferguson was the last straw, and his resignation will finally allow him to speak his mind freely on such matters. To be sure, somebody with some authority and gravitas needs to call out these crackers in uniform, and also those local law enforcement and public officials who enable them, for what they truly are -- white supremacist thugs with badges and legal briefs. The casual racism that's being allowed to pass unchallenged in our society is stunning in its breadth and scope.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:41:20 PM EST
    i have spent the last couple of hours making some incredible black bean and corn salsa.  
    I'm going to eat it now.  Have fun squabbling. Don't stay up to late.

    Squeak, other commenters have pretty (5.00 / 7) (#211)
    by vml68 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:31:17 PM EST
    much covered why I got annoyed with MT. It was not the "Insha'Allah", it was the "too many don't grasp that concept". I find that an incredibly condescending remark from someone who has absolutely no personal experience with the region or it's people.

    The generalization of all ME women as these "poor beaten, raped, mutilated and uneducated women" gets annoying after a while. Are there women in the ME who suffer all of the above? Most definitely. But, to a lesser extent it is also true for some women in the US.

    Mt acts like she is the foremost authority on the ME because her husband went to Iraq and SHE READS and SHE LEARNS unlike the rest of us! Really? You did not laugh out loud when you read that? I think you like to stir the pot and you get a perverse thrill out of aggravating the hell out of people by being deliberately obtuse. But, I have never questioned your intelligence.
    I have no doubt that if I had made the same comment MT did about reading and learning, I would have been mocked mercilessly by you, CaptHowdy and by the people you consider my defenders. And all of you would have been totally justified in doing so.

    I don't read this blog because I want to see everyone having the same point of view and agreeing with each other all the time. Pretty boring, IMO. I like the differing points of view and the back and forth when people challenge each other and have an actual discussion. But, I find that when MT is challenged on something, she gets insulting and hysterical (and I don't mean funny). Okay, sometimes the hysteria does get hysterical. It is not the first time she has reacted this way and I find it tiresome.

    CaptHowdy, I hate to disappoint you (5.00 / 5) (#212)
    by vml68 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:51:20 PM EST
    and Squeaky, but my "good-bye" to MT was my way of saying that I will not be engaging her anymore. I was not saying that I was leaving the blog. That would be way too dramatic and not at all my style.

    I have a pretty thick skin or as my parents like to say, I was blessed with buffalo hide :-). It would take a lot more than the exchange with MT, Squeaky and you to chase me out of here.

    Btw, I think you do the posters here a great disservice if you think they only comment to get ratings, 5 or otherwise.

    OK vml68 (5.00 / 1) (#213)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:53:31 PM EST
    I get it. MT annoys you and it appears that this is not new. I can relate. I think that some people are on different planes and it does not seem possible to intersect in any positive way.

    Oh well, thanks for sharing.

    I have no doubt that if I had made the same comment MT did about reading and learning, I would have been mocked mercilessly by you,...

    No I would not mock you for that, as it was a sincere comment that expressed caring about people.

    MT earlier in your comment #177 you linked to a (5.00 / 3) (#214)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:25:51 AM EST
    Huffingtom Post article that you claimed and I quote was

    a very important writing by a female Muslim from the Middle East.

    The article was written by Ali A. Rizvi.

    As the top most expert on the ME because you read, I am surprised that you were unaware that Ali was a male name. In fact, as a master of all things relating to the ME and the Muslim religion, I am surprised that you have evidently forgotten the role Ali played and how his place in history is critical in the disbute between the Shia and the Sunni.

    Here is a short bio of the author of the article in your link.

    Ali Rizvi
    Television Director
    Ali Rizvi, is a Pakistani television director, producer and writer. Active in the television industry since 1980, he has produced hits like Des Perdas, Aansoo and Family-93. Wikipedia

    MO Blue Regarding MT #177 (5.00 / 1) (#215)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 12:43:26 AM EST
    The HuffPo article was in response to an article written by a woman.

    That is the

    very important writing by a female Muslim from the Middle East.
    MT is referring to.

    Had you read the header of the HuffPo piece, or even the article, you may have gotten it.........or maybe not.

    A swarm of criticism has been leveled against Mona Eltahawy's recent Foreign Policy cover story on the state of women in the Arab world.


    I read the linked article and it was written (5.00 / 5) (#216)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 26, 2014 at 01:33:12 AM EST
    by a man not by a woman as claimed by MT. She specifically referenced the other article as a distinct and separate event. I also read the article by Mona Eltahawy and there is no question that what she describes has happened but  it is just one part of the story. Just like every college male does not rape one of his female classmates , those events do not represent all men in the ME. There have been numerous articles about the fact that there is an epidemic of sexual assault on females in the U.S. Military. The events have occurred on an ongoing basis but those events do not represent all men in the U.S. Military. Women here at home get raped and then society more often than not blames the woman for the fact they have been assaulted. The drive to make a group of cells more important than a woman's life keeps getting closer to becoming a reality and attempts to make losing a fetus a criminal offense has been recommended at various levels of government. Those events also occur but they do not represent all men in our government or our country as a whole. There are many so called Christian religions here in the states who believe that women are less than and do everything in their power to keep them subjugated.

    There are men in the ME who have been raised to honor women. Men who are loving husbands and loving fathers for all of their children. People, men and women alike, are working hard to improve conditions for women in the ME and elsewhere. While many there are working to move forward, we are struggling, not always successfully, not to go backwards to conditions that existed decades in the past.

    Howdy - let's really be honest here: (4.40 / 5) (#209)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 07:52:45 PM EST
    you left something out of what vml said: what she was responding to.  And that was this:

    It means something similar to God's will, but these deaths weren't God's will, they were the will of other men....but too many can't grasp that concept.

    That was the condescension to which vml referred.  And which came across - to vml - as being culturally insensitive.  Which is how it read to me, too, for whatever that's worth.  I mean, really, who is MT to sit in judgment of how native peoples view God's will?

    I find it remarkable that you would choose to accept a wiki explanation/definition over that of someone whose family is from the area and is more steeped in Arabic culture than any of us - including MT - is likely to be.

    As for the "personal attack which that commenter loves to do," say what?  vml is not someone who ever engages in personal attacks - she hasn't even been here in months.  Perhaps you confused her with someone else, but you are way, way off the mark there.  If you'd bothered to even check out her comment history, you'd have known that in seconds.

    MT has been out-of-control nasty for several days now; people have made reasonable, rational, measured responses to her, and she's just gone off on them, in an unnecessarily nasty way, all for the sin of not having the opinion she had decreed as the one and only.

    This thing between MT and vml started with the condescending "but too many can't grasp that concept," and went downhill from there - no matter how many times and no matter how many ways vml attempted to explain and present her point of view, MT had closed the door and would not - could not - accept that she had stuck her foot in her mouth.

    And when I consider that one of the people in this thing isn't from the Middle East, hasn't lived there, doesn't have roots in the culture, and one of them has roots and history and experience, it's even more appalling that you are actually defending the rude and nasty way MT has comported herself in order to end up on top of a discussion that vml didn't get involved in so that she could "win."

    If you are fishing for "5s" (4.00 / 4) (#210)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 08:00:17 PM EST
    you will probably get some.  Enjoy them. Just read and understand my last comment.   I won't be arguing  with you.  Tonight.

    Ranch people (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 09:33:56 PM EST
    mentioned in another thread.  First off, nothing whatever against ranch people.  Some of my best friends and all that.
    Anyway,
    I was at my sisters this afternoon and my nephew comes in from a 911 call, he's EMT, absolutely covered in blood.  You literally could not tell what color his t-shirt was.  A 15 yo kid had been cutting hay and somehow fell off the tractor and was run over by the hay cutter.  Last word was he was alive but very critical.  He was on this ranch that always has about 10 or 15 foster kids who some people say are really there for free labor.  As far as 15 yos doing this work it's not unusual here.  For that matter there are more than a few similar accidents every year involving adults.  It seems like it much easier to do than it should be.
    But one of my friends here who is a great foster parent is set on trying to make trouble for these people.  She says the place is like a work camp and the authorities know about it.  The kid was black.  She says they take Minority teenages because there is less concern about how they are treated.
    No idea if this is true but it actually sounds plausible.  Any insight on foster care and possibility of this sort of thing?

    Awful... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by desertswine on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 09:47:52 PM EST
    hope the kid recovers.  Don't know anything about the other issues tho.

    Parent
    At least in CA ( no info on laws of (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 10:38:11 PM EST
    other states, a minor the court orders removed from the home have a child protection worker assigned to visit the minor and file statutorily-required reports. Unfortunately, the case loads are large and some CPS workers are conscientious but others are not.

    Parent
    I don't think (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 10:59:49 PM EST
    reports are going to say anything necessarily bad about making the kids work.  It sounds like the person or persons in charge know how to use the system.

    Parent
    Hopefully, the incident will cause the (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 11:07:32 PM EST
    juvenile court and/or the media to investigate this foster home.

    Parent
    Or they have friends in the (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 11:10:17 PM EST
    System.  That is an awful lot of children for one fostering situation unless they are a group home.  Then state laws?

    When I worked probation in WY we had a privatized group home fostering outfit set up shop.  Judge shuffled the kids in.  The facility claimed home schooling and the kids built a DIY decking system out of scrap lumber.

    Took a couple of years to bust them.  Required several complaints, a car crash that resulted in deaths, and then finally their education system was inspected and there really wasn't one and none of the children could meet grade benchmarks.

    Parent

    I Lived on a Farm... (5.00 / 6) (#60)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 10:48:53 AM EST
    ...it is not easy and I fortunately worked for a father that insisted on hard work, but he always paid us the same as the grown men he hired, which were guys he worked with.  He paid well.

    By the time I graduated I has a sizable bank account and even though I hated it, it really taught me about work ethic and saving dollars.  But even now, when I visit, all my dad can think of is what job should Scott do, doesn't matter when I explain that I no longer have farm clothes or the desire to work on my vacation...

    He is a kind man, but to this day never understood why someone would not want to do what he does.  But kind men in farming IMO are the exception, it's why we eventually got rid of the animals, he just didn't like slaughtering animals or keeping them fenced in.  But he still cash crops more than ever.

    My point, if you are lucky enough to work for someone like my dad, it's definitely a good thing, but if not, it can be very bad.  Even out neighbor's hired hand, as kids we would always make fun of him because he was always falling asleep, now as an adult I realize it was because he was working insane hours.  But I remember the boss man kicking him in the @ss and yelling at him to get to work, funny at the time, but sick now.

    I had cousin work an entire summer for someone who at the end decided not to pay him.  Family farming is always exempted from labor laws and that to me is creates situation in which people are used.
    ----------------------

    Our neighbor was pulled into a silage cutter, think wood chipper for corn stalks.  The kid, my friend, was a year younger than me and the one who discovered the bits and pieces that remained.  The dog was snacking on them.  I was too young to get all the details, but that large family never recovered, emotionally or financially, even with all the neighbors pitching it.

    Farming is dangerous work.  Unless you are corporate, you use machines from the 50's and 60's and safety isn't usually part of the design.

    Parent

    I grew up in pennsylvania farm country, (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 12:31:33 PM EST
    the accidents were gruesome and commonly fatal. Harvesting equipment is extremely dangerous.  No seat belts or rollover protection on the tractors back then.  People were always standing on the drawbars, hanging off the seats, sticking their hands into moving mechanisms.  There were so many ways to f-up.  People who knew better did it, people with intelligence, who ran out of time to be intelligent.  One slip and that was it.  You'd lost your hand, your leg, the top half of your skull, or got pulled into the screw feeding an elevator.  Those last four examples were people I knew.

    Parent
    Two weeks ago during harvest/crush (none / 0) (#86)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:14:18 PM EST
    at a CA winery I'm involved with, a 10 year employee lost his hand in an auger. According to the owner, it got pulled off.

    Parent
    Speaking of dangerous farm equipment, ... (none / 0) (#119)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:40:58 PM EST
    ... former Ohio Congressman Jim Traficant is presently hospitalized in critical condition, having suffered serious injuries on his daughter's family farm yesterday when the tractor he was riding apparently rolled over on top of him. As you noted, such mishaps can happen to the most experienced amongst us, and it only has to happen once.

    Parent
    We were talking to the EMTs (none / 0) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:43:31 PM EST
    about this yesterday.  My riding mower has a shutoff if you get up while it is in gear. Tractors don't?  

    Parent
    Well, ours doesn't (none / 0) (#134)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:31:31 PM EST
    But then, it's a very old John Deere.
    Many farmers cannot afford the newest equipment, with the newest safety gear.  The ones around here, at least, are barely making it, and most of them have jobs in town and work the farm after they get home and on the week-ends.

    Parent
    Afaik (none / 0) (#139)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:44:51 PM EST
    even the new one don't.  That's what the consensus was yesterday.   Apparently some like to drive standing up.

    Parent
    the cause of his death?

    Parent
    i think so yes (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:03:21 PM EST
    if it had shut off when he fell off it would not have driven over him.  He was trying to get out of the way.  Sadly this ended up making things worse since he just managed to get right under the outside cutters.

    He died btw.

    Parent

    Just heard the last part a few minutes ago. (none / 0) (#148)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:04:19 PM EST
    ugh. (none / 0) (#152)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:10:35 PM EST
    The tractor Traficant was driving ... (none / 0) (#171)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:45:53 PM EST
    ... was an antique Ford model, from 1943. Back then, practically everything was manual.

    Parent
    Tractor roll-overs (none / 0) (#151)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:09:27 PM EST
    Are one of the leading causes of death or serious injury on farms.
    Our old tractor, and most of the tractors up this way, do not have roll bars or roll cages.
    In addition, many of the older ones, like ours, have very small, close-together front wheels.  The danger with those is if the front wheel plunges into a groundhog hole and the tractor, being very top-heavy, pitches over, throwing the driver, and sometimes rolling over on him/her (yes, I used to drive our tractor, too).  Which is why most farmers, including us, hate groundhogs.


    Parent
    Yup. I drove one in HS (none / 0) (#154)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:15:35 PM EST
    when I had a summer job at my local water co mowing the grass/weeds on all its properties.

    iirc, there is no gas pedal, you use a shifter to go to a different faster/slower rpm?

    It was fun to learn to ride it, but I never did feel comfortable on it.

    Parent

    Yup. (none / 0) (#167)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:40:55 PM EST
    At least, that's how ours works.
    (In fact, our ancient, small lawn tractor is the same.)
    You have a clutch and a brake, if you want to speed up or slow down, you upshift or downshift.
    And try spiking a huge round hay bale on the back of one of those tractors, which we used to do in order to deliver them to our bale feeder for the cows.  The tractor is already top-heavy, and in fact, back-heavy, too.  The round bale just makes it even more back-heavy.    

    Parent
    M paternal grandparents in Illinois ... (none / 0) (#174)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:55:45 PM EST
    ... had a groundhog that lived in a hole right next to the garage on their farm near Lake Zurich. We used to see him all the time, sneaking over to my grandmother's vegetable garden when he thought no one was looking. She later told me that he became prey for one of the local coyotes which moved into the territory.

    Parent
    As I said, we hate groundhogs (none / 0) (#192)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:24:23 PM EST
    Because of the dangers their holes pose to farmers on tractors.  They do also eat stuff in our garden, but I'm more worried about their holes out in the hay field.
    Good for the coyote.   ;-)

    Parent
    Awful (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 10:34:17 PM EST
    My family are ranch people, I am the first generation town born they call it.  I had to work on the ranch every summer.  15 and in the field alone used to not be odd, but it kind of is now and it really is once school starts. Isn't it a school day?  Please don't tell me they home school.  I have heard of large foster establishments running work houses easily because they "home school".

    Parent
    Home schooling (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 10:57:42 PM EST
    would not be a surprise but this happened after school hours.

    Parent
    Doesn't he have homework? (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 11:02:36 PM EST
    Josh is sharp, and has a flex block, and he still has some homework.

    High school is so busy now. I am suspicious about anyone who has time to cut hay after school.  That just isn't how it works anymore and you get the education you are supposed to be getting.

    Parent

    Many kids work after school (none / 0) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 08:31:39 AM EST
    In these parts especially his time of year.  Lots of Hay.

    Parent
    an undercover drug cop just won (none / 0) (#16)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 24, 2014 at 11:01:05 PM EST
    Big Brother -- with his $500k prize, he probably doesn't mind he'll never be able to do that again.

    Not content... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:10:17 AM EST
    with brutalizing the born, police turn their attention to the unborn.

    And We Keep Paying the Tab (none / 0) (#74)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:52:24 AM EST
    So they can protect us unencumbered.

    Parent
    Ebola, Liberia and US History (none / 0) (#50)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 09:54:42 AM EST
    Two weeks ago, Liberian President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf wrote a letter to Barack Obama concerning the outbreak of Ebola in her tiny West African country. The message was a desperate one, the tone pleading. "I am being honest with you when I say that at this rate, we will never break the transmission chain and the virus will overwhelm us." A former finance minister and World Bank official, Johnson Sirleaf is not one for histrionics....

    Johnson Sirleaf was tactful with Obama, as any leader of a small country pleading with a U.S. president must be. She said nothing of the risible inadequacy of his initial offer of help--a 25-bed facility in the Liberian capital of Monrovia to treat stricken health care workers.

    America in Africa

    The tragic, misunderstood history of Liberia--and why the United States has a special obligation to help it fight the Ebola epidemic.

    Worth a Read

    UN Special Meeting to Raise $1billion and Coordinate Aid

    World leaders are gathering in New York on Thursday to spotlight the Ebola outbreak ravaging parts of West Africa, a meeting that will test whether the international community is prepared to bring to bear the resources needed to halt the swiftly spreading virus..

    Faced with a caseload that is doubling every three weeks, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has called for a "20-fold surge in care, tracking, transport and equipment" to get in front of the epidemic.



    Question (none / 0) (#52)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 10:00:35 AM EST
    What is the difference between ISIS and ISIL ?

    I just watched Matt Lauer interview Samantha Power and every question asked used ISIS and every response used ISIL.  Even here they seem to be interchangeable.

    I thought ISIS re-branded to ISIL then to IS, but not seeing IS anywhere.

    Yes, I find the (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 10:28:41 AM EST
    different usage curious.  It seems that the Administration officials use ISIL and almost everyone else either ISIS or IS.  Maybe, it reflects the confusion of the situation.

    Parent
    Hard To Change A Brand Name (none / 0) (#59)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 10:32:07 AM EST
    Maybe this helps: (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by Anne on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 10:50:50 AM EST
    Link

    Or not.  

    The reasons for who uses which acronym are varied.  From what I gather, the administration has moved to ISIL because the "L" is for "the Levant," which is a much larger geographical area than Syria (the "S").  Republicans, apparently, prefer to keep using "ISIS." The group itself wants to be known as "IS."

    Do you think it would be a problem if we started calling them "ISNT" - pronounced like "isn't?" Haven't figured out what the "NT" would represent, but I kind of like the idea of "isn't" rather than "is."

    But maybe that would be too incendiary.

    Parent

    I like it...suggest getting rid (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:41:04 AM EST
    of the contraction and calling them ISNOT. Just as easy to say and gets the point across easier.

    Parent
    More (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by jbindc on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:06:05 PM EST
    Police Chief Thomas Jackson apologized (none / 0) (#62)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 10:53:14 AM EST
    A Month and a Half Later ? (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:32:31 AM EST
    It was very nice and seemed sincere, but the delay leads me to believe that this is a strategy devised by some media consultants, complete with the polo rather than his uniform.  Why ?

    It's a shame the police didn't understand the Constitution regarding protests say when they were hired, not after being shown on the TV violating rights, literally right and left.

    Too many "sorry, but...."

    The apology was needed at least a month ago IMO, and are we ever going to get Wilson's version of what happened that day, Chief, or just an apology for it taking so long ?

    Parent

    They wouldn't have had the problem (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 12:34:28 PM EST
    if the cops were as slow to shoot as they are to apologize.

    Parent
    Patricia Bynes, black Committeewoman (none / 0) (#73)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:48:37 AM EST
    Ferguson Township via twitter:


    Patricia Bynes @Patricialicious  ·  1h

    Is it too little too late? Yes. When a community is furious, scared, anxious and on edge, a glimpse of humanity is nice to see even if late

    Patricia Bynes @Patricialicious  ·  1h

    Someone in this Ferguson City debacle seems to be listening. This is what people have been outraged about, the lack of empathy.

    Patricia Bynes @Patricialicious  ·  1h

    As someone who is living & representing #Ferguson the Chief's apology helps. It is not perfect but a needed 1st step.



    Parent
    Off Topic... (none / 0) (#64)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:12:15 AM EST
    ...you mentioned the other day that you were trying to find some old posts here.

    Not sure if you are aware, but Google searches are so much better than Talk Left's, just Google something like

    "Talk Left" scottw714 "sarcastic unnamed one" "michael brown"

    29 results.

    If it's not too old, the links in purple are the pages you have been in.  Not the best, but infinitely better than TL search feature which blows IMO.

    Sometimes you can even Google a recent post in which Jeralyn deleted comments, just click the little down arrow, then Cached.  It's hit or miss, but for other things it really nice to see an old version before it was scrubbed.

    Parent

    Another Way (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:24:41 AM EST
    in google

    site:talkleft.com bla bla bla..  or whatever you want to lookup.

    Parent

    Thanks guys, that's very helpful. (none / 0) (#71)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 11:37:30 AM EST
    thanks both of you! (none / 0) (#79)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 12:33:24 PM EST
    Eric Holder resigns? (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:15:12 PM EST
    Wtf go out for lunch and look what happens

    Possible replacements? (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by jbindc on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:29:29 PM EST
    Link

    Although the White House does not plan to announce a replacement Thursday, there are several possible contenders for Holder's successor, including U.S. Solicitor General Donald B. Verrilli Jr.; former White House counsel Kathryn Ruemmler, who left this year to return to private practice in New York; Loretta E. Lynch, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of New York; Preet Bharara, the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York; and Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick (D), who is retiring from that office.


    Parent
    take one off the list (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by CST on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:34:56 PM EST
    "Now" being the operative word (none / 0) (#94)
    by jbindc on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:50:09 PM EST
    Let's check back after the November elections when Deval is packing up the gubernatorial mansion. He might be interested then.

    Parent
    Bigger plans? (none / 0) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:52:25 PM EST
    anyway probably smart.  That is going to be an ugly thankless job for the next two years at least.

    Parent
    money (none / 0) (#99)
    by CST on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 01:58:27 PM EST
    from the article

    "Patrick has consistently said that he plans to serve out the remainder of his term, which ends in January, and then try to find a job in the private sector."

    "While he has said he is not interested in running for president in 2016, he hasn't closed the door on future political ambitions."

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    Getting caught up in the Ferguson debacle IMO (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:04:29 PM EST
    would not be advantageous to any future political ambitions.

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    Can you imagine how (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 02:07:17 PM EST
    many head would explode at the idea of TWO black presidents on a row?  
    Fwiw I don't think he could take the nomination from Hillary but it would almost be fun if he ran just for the right wing bed wetting.

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    Honestly (none / 0) (#128)
    by CST on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:09:35 PM EST
    I don't see him ever making a serious run.  Massachusetts politicians have a hard time playing nationally for a reason and he is no different.  He sounds like a huge dork/nerd, and he doesn't have the Charisma you need.

    If anything Warren would be the exception not Patrick, because she's not actually from MA and doesn't have that snotty-elitist-east-coast thing going on.  And I say that as a local - we have this whole "better/smarter-than-you" attitude, and for whatever reason people don't seem to like it much :)  

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    Police Chief's Apology (none / 0) (#137)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 03:39:18 PM EST
    Ferguson police chief apologizes on video to the family of Michael Brown for leaving his body so long in the street but NOT for shooting him dead

    His apology is meaningless. His responsibility for the body ended when the St Louis County Police were called 40 minutes later.

    He should have apologized for failing to contact the St Louis County Police for 40 minutes, for lying about when his other officers arrived on the scene, for lying about the reason their son was shot, for lying about how far from the cruiser their son ran before he was shot, initially lying about how many bullets were fired and by whom, for lying about why the incident report is missing,....

    Don't worry.... (none / 0) (#161)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:33:28 PM EST
    BY LESLIE LARSON    NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Thursday, September 25, 2014, 9:13 AM A A A

    Obama takes Michelle, Valerie Jarrett for downtown Manhattan date night.
    The first couple traveled downtown to Nolita for dinner at Estela on E. Houston St. Obama's senior adviser, Valerie Jarrett, joined the pair for the romantic dinner.

    President Obama ditched his uptown digs at the Waldorf Astoria to sample the offerings of downtown Manhattan.

    With the First Lady and his trusty senior adviser Valerie Jarrett in tow, the presidential motorcade took over the Nolita neighborhood on Wednesday night for the first couple's date night at Estela on E. Houston St.

    They dined on burrata with salsa verde and bread, two endive salads, tomatoes and croquettes before they returned to their hotel shortly before 10:30pm, sources told Eater New York.

    Be Hoppy.

    I think THIS is more disturbing (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by jbindc on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:42:48 PM EST
    than the fact they had a date night.

    Obama's senior adviser, Valerie Jarrett, joined the pair for the romantic dinner.


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    The good news (none / 0) (#178)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:01:15 PM EST
    is that it seems that our man in Baghdad, Prime Minister Haidar al-Abadi, misspoke when he said that there was a plot to attack the subways in Manhattan.

    Comforting reassurance came from the elites:

    A senior Obama administration official said no one in the U.S. government is aware of such a plot, adding that the claim was never brought up in meetings with Iraqi officials this week in New York. President Barack Obama met with al-Abadi Wednesday.

    The administration official was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly by name and spoke on condition of anonymity.

    Whew. That's a relief!
    Let"s grab a bite.

    Parent

    Who decided this was a 'romantic' dinner? (5.00 / 3) (#180)
    by nycstray on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:03:21 PM EST
    something tells me (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by CST on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:07:00 PM EST
    the new york daily news did

    I doubt they asked anyone involved

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    Yes (none / 0) (#186)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:09:56 PM EST
    Pure spin...  innuendo as spice to spike up the readership.

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    Could have easily been a working dinner (none / 0) (#187)
    by nycstray on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:14:08 PM EST
    and MO was the third wheel ;)

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    I'm (none / 0) (#196)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:37:19 PM EST
    absolutely sure it was a working dinner.

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    So then (none / 0) (#172)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:49:34 PM EST
    neither of the Obamas could find her a date or did her date cancel on her???

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    Maybe, Valerie (none / 0) (#175)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 04:58:15 PM EST
    picks up the tab. I may be persuaded to welcome generous friends to my dinners, romantic or not.  Better than the kindness of strangers.

    Parent
    Romantic Date? (none / 0) (#183)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 25, 2014 at 05:05:59 PM EST
    sounds like a weird spin...  the writer must have an axe to grind.

    Parent