Sunday Open Thread

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    So (5.00 / 6) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:47:43 AM EST
    I read that the White House... (none / 0) (#203)
    by crimebird on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:18:05 AM EST
    ...is sending three people to attend Brown's funeral. I hope that is an indicator that Brown did not have a significant juvenile record and that there is tangible evidence he was a completely innocent victim. Because if it turns out that neither of those are the case, the White House is going to look...bad.

    Unless Brown is St Terea in a hoodie the WH will look "bad" for trying to show some concern that he was gunned down for crossing the street improperly?

    Just trying to understand here

    Sounds Like Racism to Me.. (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:03:02 AM EST
    Double standard at best..

    Yes, (5.00 / 4) (#71)
    by KeysDan on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:42:44 PM EST
    an awful lot of that going around.  And, I do mean, awful.

    You know, it's almost like these (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by Anne on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:10:00 AM EST
    people really, really, really want Michael Brown to have a record.  What's coming through is "it's okay - if he had a record, his life didn't matter anyway."

    Try as I might, I just don't understand this, at all.  I don't understand how the possibility of a juvenile record is supposed to get them from the tragedy of Michael Brown to the triumph of Darren Wilson.  How, in any universe that is supposed to be civilized, can walking in the road be cause for a confrontation of that magnitude?

    Why are they working so hard to feel okay about a death at the hand of someone who's supposed to be about "protect and serve?"  Who was Darren Wilson protecting?  Himself?  How does running after someone and shooting at them fit into that category?  Who was he serving?  The community?  How does firing bullets with no regard for people in the area serve them, or anyone?

    What really just wants to make me vomit is finding out how many people think like "crimebird" does.  

    I could not be more disgusted.


    wonder if Darren Wilson has a juvi record? (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by fishcamp on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:13:22 AM EST
    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:17:44 AM EST
    Would these questions would even be asked if Brown was not "brown"

    I sure would be asking them if Brown was white... (5.00 / 0) (#147)
    by crimebird on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:40:12 PM EST
    and a bunch of people were proclaiming that he had been murdered by the police.

    They (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:40:09 AM EST
    want him to have a record because it justifies in their own mind what happens. If he was an innocent victim they will have to reexamine everything conservatives have been telling them for years now--that the police don't make mistakes etc. This is a whole lot bigger in a lot of ways than just a shooting.

    It seems rather plain to me (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 11:31:18 AM EST
    That if a white young man has a troubled youth, we still will not tolerate a police officer gunning them down for jay walking or petty theft.  Consequences are supposed to be proportional to the actions for the children of white parents.

    I am a white parent, that is how I know this outrage would not stand!

    But the victim was black, his parents are black, and they must manage their social expectations differently because......


    Liberals (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 11:53:55 AM EST
    would not tolerate it and maybe some conservatives too but apparently shooting a minority is justified to a lot of conservatives.

    What pejudice (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Slado on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:30:12 PM EST
    All Republicans?

    Some "people" don't want to convict an officer of a crime before all the facts are known.

    People who want to use this trajedy to score racial points and confirm their theories are making huge assumptions and not bothering to wait for evidence.   Then when this is pointed out you and others make statements about "republicans" and "tea partiers" revealing your own prejudices and lack of empathy for the other side.

    You have no idea what happened other than a Cop shot a young black male.

    How about we wait to find out and you stop shouting down theories that are based on just as much evidence as yours?

    Last time I checked this is a legal blog were we presume innocence until guilt is proven.  

    IMHO Mr. brown threatened the officer on some level.   Reports indicate he struck the officer.   That is true or not.   Whatever the case the question is did the officer apply deadly force when it was not necessary.   Unfortunately for the victims family if that is the case it will probably be hard to prove and unfortunately for the officer if it isn't the case now because of media attention he will be prosecuted no matter how little evidence they have against him.

    It is not unreasonable or racist to infer that Mr. Brown could have acted as he did in the convienence store when the officer hassled him for walking in the street.  

    In fact I would say that two youths walking down an empty street was not worth the time of a police officer even before the advantage of hindsight.  I would also say this is a perfect example of why young black men feel they are constantly under unnecessary scrutiny from law enforcement.   However if the officer was responding to the robbery or theft call this theory goes out the window.   Again we'll wait and see.

    If we assume the officer hadn't heard the call yet Mr. Brown probably (and with good reason) couldn't believe this cop was pestering him about something so silly and a confrontation began that ended tragically in a young mans death.

    That's my theory.  Could be true, could be untrue but me having it has nothing to do with racism and I'll wait to see what the facts show.

    Obviously it's hard to leave ones feelings about law enforcement and race at the door but one can disagree on what happened here without being a racist.

    Just like the Duke Lacrosse case presumptions based on the race of the victim and the officer have written a narrative of events that are not clearly backed up by the known facts.   If we assume the worst, as was done then, we see a racist killing and anyone who defends the officer must have racist intentions because the facts of racism are already in place from this narrative.   The idea that a white officer shot a black man kneeling with his hands up has no basis in facts but instead was established early on because it fit the most racist narrative that could be established.     To me that narrative seems very unlikely at this point but we'll see.

    I'm not a racist for doubting it.


    I sincerely hope any decision of the grand jury (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:37:32 PM EST
    is based on the evidence presented to it, not public opinion.

    I think it's safe to say we all do (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:02:57 PM EST
    It's the "public opinion" we worry about being the influence where our concern differs

    Would also add (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:31:39 PM EST
    That since the prosecutor has complete discretion about WHAT evidence is presented that is far from the only concern many have.

    All Republicans... (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by magster on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:37:37 PM EST
    insofar as the party tolerates the racist element that makes up a significant voting bloc within the party in order to get to 50.1% in any given election.

    People seeking change from within are wonderful people when sincere, so if you can cut and paste your comments of outrage to the racist commenters in the Darren Wilson fundraiser site and the Gateway Pundit BS article on orbital explosion,  it would be appreciated.


    And... (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by Slado on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:34:24 PM EST
    Democrats tolerate prejudice against Christians and race exploitation by the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

    What's your point?

    Both sides of the aisle have plenty of warts.  Never acknowledging your own leads to discussions that never go anywhere and zero empathy for the other point of view.

    Ther are racist democrats, republicans and independents.  Doesn't mean any of them don't have a point.

    As Chris Rock said..."the most racist people on the planet are old Black Men"

    His point being we all can do a little better.


    If (5.00 / 4) (#121)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:01:47 PM EST
    the Republicans actually acted that way of not convicting a cop before the facts come out I would be saying nothing. They have jumped on basically say this unarmed kid deserved to be killed. You need to go no further than some of the fact free posts on this site to see what is being said. And this isn't the first time. I mean I've even seen conservatives defend the guy that shot Jordan Davis in Florida because he said he was afraid because the kids were playing their music too loud in the car. That was another unarmed kid. That guy said he was afraid too didn't he? The message that conservatives are continually sending out there is that the life of a minority isn't worth as much as anybody's else's.

    Well, it is true that I have little empathy for tea partiers. I live in an area where there are a lot of them and there's no agree to disagree with them. It's all about you have to agree with them 100% or you're an awful person out to destroy America. I have pointed out to them that they are actually being taken advantage of by a bunch of charlatans but it falls on deaf ears.


    "They" (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by Slado on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:37:45 PM EST
    What a terrible word.   All republicans?

    Stop it.  Some people have jumped to the opposite conclusion that many on the black community have taken.

    Both are probably wrong,

    Not all Republicans think he "deserved" it.

    Many haven't a clue and unfortunately too many are overacting in the opposite direction.


    No, (none / 0) (#140)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:15:51 PM EST
    and if you actually read what I said above I said SOME conservatives. You went off on a tangent say it's all conservatives and I never said that. I same SOME. I really wish there were more like you who actually seem to want a debate on the issues.

    I figure the conservatives have been riding this train for quite a few decades. It's their Frankenstein monster and they are the ones that need to deal with it.

    I mean good grief even the statements about the children coming across the border were awful.


    How did "a lot of conservatives"... (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by unitron on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:02:10 PM EST
    get transformed into "All Republicans?"?

    Much Is True (none / 0) (#72)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:44:23 PM EST
    No one here should be jumping to conclusions BUT, the context of this shooting cannot be stripped from the event. That context is a racist environment with lots of documentation of Police racism.

    Imagine someone was in a bar for 4 hours. Next thing is the person was outside vomiting, than sat down and passed out.

    food pinioning or alcohol poisoning?


    Did said person both eat and drink? (none / 0) (#80)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:22:37 PM EST
    No Food In Bar (none / 0) (#81)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:27:45 PM EST
    Maybe the flu?



    See how it is important to have the relevant (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:40:40 PM EST
    facts?  Pre-existing medical conditions. Doctored drink(s).

    Yes (none / 0) (#115)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:36:41 PM EST
    And when the facts are shaky, disappeared, or just permanently unavailable there is circumstantial evidence:

    Circumstantial evidence is evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact--like a fingerprint at the scene of a crime. By contrast, direct evidence supports the truth of an assertion directly--i.e., without need for any additional evidence or inference.

    On its own, it is the nature of circumstantial evidence for more than one explanation to still be possible. Inference from one piece of circumstantial evidence may not guarantee accuracy. Circumstantial evidence usually accumulates into a collection, so that the pieces then become corroborating evidence. Together, they may more strongly support one particular inference over another. An explanation involving circumstantial evidence becomes more valid as proof of a fact when the alternative explanations have been ruled out.

    Gee, thanks. (none / 0) (#123)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:25:53 PM EST
    You are Welcome (none / 0) (#137)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:06:31 PM EST
    Sometime the obvious is occluded in the fog of war.

    Was the person on chemo? (none / 0) (#189)
    by SuzieTampa on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:35:48 PM EST
    Did the person have trouble with bowel blockages? Here, I'm just speaking from my own experience. There are various medical problems that cause people to vomit, other than food or alcohol poisoning. The point being that people shouldn't jump to conclusions without knowing more facts.

    More Facts (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:28:36 PM EST
    For some the facts don't carry any weight. For sone, running a scam on the black population through traffic stops, seems justified.

    oh, come on... (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by crimebird on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:37:53 PM EST
    take some sea sickness pills if you're feeling nauseated... seriously, if Brown has a significant record of violence beyond what was seen in the store video, it would certainly be relevant ... not to advance an argument that he deserved to be murdered by Wilson but simply because it would make it much more plausible that he might just have assaulted Wilson. It's going to come out if this comes to trial. And ask yourself a question, suppose Wilson had a long record of complaints by minorities against him, wouldn't that be relevant in determining if he was likely or not to have shot a defenseless and totally innocent Wilson? I think it would be.

    I would point out one tiny difference (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:44:09 PM EST
    Wilson was a paid armed representative of, and sworn to protect the people of Ferguson.
    Brown was an 18 yo kid.

    no, that's not it... (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by crimebird on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:31:40 PM EST
    but come on...if Brown had a record for violence beyond what we saw in the store video, it would certainly make it more plausible that he assaulted the police officer. It's relevant...just like is Wilson had a long list of complaints about him calling civilians racist names. That would certainly make it more plausible that the shooting of Brown was not justified.

    Poor Comparison (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:39:27 PM EST
    The shopkeeper tried to lock Brown in and was half his size..

    Wilson had a gun, and was bigger than Brown.

    Do you really think that pushing around an armed Policeman that is bigger than you is the same as brushing aside a small shopkeeper who is unarmed and blocking your exit?

    I don't.


    yes, I do think it's relevant... (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by crimebird on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:50:15 PM EST
    The police officer didn't stop Brown and his friend because of the robbery (although that's a bit murky). But Brown certainly knew what he had done very shortly before, and if like most people in this world he didn't like the idea of being arrested and detained, assaulting the cop is certainly one possible option he could have taken. Again, I'm not saying this is what happened. But it's one of the possibilities.

    One thing we do know (5.00 / 3) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:15:27 PM EST
    Is that Wioson chased him firing his gun into neighborhood houses.  How do you feel about that.  
    Even if you accept the BS story if the "orbital blowout"

    So, what you are 'suggesting' is . . . (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:44:11 PM EST
    Brown didn't want to be arrested/detained for a petty theft, but he was willing to assault a cop, which I'm guessing would land him more significant jail time if it didn't kill him first?

    OK (none / 0) (#157)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:02:40 PM EST
    We do not see eye to eye.

    An unarmed person assaulting an armed cop over a few cigarillos?

    Do you think that Brown thought he was going to knock Wilson out?

    that is pretty funny, imo.


    Ok (5.00 / 3) (#148)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:40:40 PM EST
    So what does that have with making the WH look bad.  He was 18.  He was part of an epidemic of young black men being gunned down.  As others have said, this has all gotten bigger than Michael Brown.  I applaud the WH for showing they care about the fact that people of color have to have "the talk" with their sons about encountering police in the hope of keeping them alive.  It's hard to imagine what it's like to have your son gunned down for holding a toy gun in Walmart.

    Own what you said.


    I do own what I said... (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by crimebird on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:58:29 PM EST
    I think that if Brown had a serious criminal record in his past and that gets disclosed and if it turns out that there are witnesses who convincingly rebut the claims of the individuals who claimed to have seen it all and that it was murder, it would be deeply embarrassing to the White House. I would feel the same way if for some benighted reason, the White House had decided to embrace Wilson as a heroic cop and invited him and his family to the White House for lunch with the President. I would have said, "let's wait for the evidence before we embrace this guy." Returning to Brown, sending one person would have been enough...sending three is excessive.

    Have you considered (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:13:06 PM EST
    That maybe they wanted to go?

    You can not embarrass this White House (none / 0) (#165)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:19:51 PM EST
    Oh, trust me (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:24:56 PM EST
    YOU could.

    Kill The Messenger (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:52:38 AM EST
    this looks pretty darn great

    Jeremy Renner is slated to reprise his Bourne Legacy role - as former CIA black ops agent-turned rogue operative, Aaron Cross - in the currently-untitled fifth Bourne franchise installment (a.k.a. Bourne 5). However, before he does, he'll battle the CIA in a very different sort of film: Kill the Messenger, the upcoming drama about real-life journalist Gary Webb's investigation into links between the Reagan-era CIA, the Contra rebels in Nicaragua, and the smuggling of cocaine into the U.S. that contributed to the crack cocaine epidemic during the 1980s.

    The newly-released Kill the Messenger trailer paints a short and sweet portrait of the film's narrative - namely, Webb uncovering what appears to be a vast conspiracy, which results in Renner's protagonist becoming the target of the powers that be, who would prefer to keep said skeletons tucked away in their closet.

    Webb's articles for the San Jose Mercury News - published in 1999 as the book "Dark Alliance: The CIA, the Contras, and the Crack Cocaine Explosion" - have long been controversial; not just because of Webb's unnerving assertions, but also because even some of those who were closer to him have questioned his accuracy in reporting - and whether or not Webb is really someone who should be considered "heroic." Then again, Webb asserted that his co-workers and editors were often not supportive and unable to process his findings rationally - so it kind of depends on who's telling the story.

    Kill the Messenger director Michael Cuesta helped to paint a complicated portrait of the CIA during his time as an executive producer and director on Showtime's Homeland (he's also worked on TV shows like Elementary and Dexter), so hopefully he'll manage to do as much here - rather than simplify Webb's story to a basic good journalist vs. bad government drama.


    "Josie" (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:01:15 AM EST
    "Josie" Story of Brown Shooting Lifted From Fake Facebook Page - See Updated Timeline Below

    So says little green footballs.  Seems some on the right still care about having some smidgen of credibility

    If Wilson isn't going to (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Anne on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:15:59 AM EST
    file an incident report and invokes his right to remain silent, it defies logic that he would post an account on FB.  He'd have to be 6 kinds of stupid to do that.

    Makes me wonder who actually did create that page.


    It makes you also wonder (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:42:50 AM EST
    what Dana Loesch meant by the word "vetted" when she aired Josie's story claiming that she had been "vetted".

    Anyone with a brain asking the right questions could have picked it apart in a minute.


    Again (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:48:21 AM EST

    Dana Loesch was all over the air last week defending caller 'Josie's' claim to be telling Darren Wilson's story. Either she was punked or she was part of the punking.

    Wilson has way (none / 0) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:19:59 AM EST
    More "supporters" than you or me might believe.  Just look at "TalkLEFT".  And then extrapolate that to the world.  

    Oh, I've seen some of that "support," (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by Anne on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:26:05 AM EST
    and it wasn't presented in quite the same polite and dog-whistle way we see here...and "ugly" doesn't do justice to what I've seen outside of TL.

    I agree there's some ugly racist talk... (5.00 / 0) (#158)
    by crimebird on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:03:17 PM EST
    about Brown and some people seem to believe that him being black was enough to justify him being killed. But I wonder if you will concede that there's some pretty ugly talk that goes the other way...stuff like "all police are racists," "the police should all be killed" etc.

    Apart from the Difference in Scale (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:06:45 PM EST
    Power of White Racists compared to the power of people calling them out is skewed. As for citizens saying all police should be killed, I think you are describing a very marginal group that would get gunned down instantly in any confrontation with the police.

    We live in a racist society. Reverse racism is BS.


    Oddly (5.00 / 3) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:23:02 PM EST
    I have not seen a single instance of "all police are racist OR should be killed"

    Not here.  Not on Facebook.  Not anywhere.
    Do those people exist?  I have no doubt they probably do but I would no more waste my time with them than I would the ones calling Ferguson protesters "animals".  Sadly I've seen quite a bit of that.


    U n me both (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:30:15 AM EST
    I dropped another "friend" last night

    And Yet (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:20:40 AM EST
    on the Sunday talk shows this mythological story mouthed by anonymous Josie is still aired as if it is true.

    Sanford had its Rachel and now Ferguson has its Josie.

    Instead of admitting  that they were and are wrong too many Josie believers are doubling down on their stupidity.


    If you say it often enough..... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:22:03 AM EST
    I'm sure they're just trying to be (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by Anne on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:28:08 AM EST
    "balanced;" if they were discussing the sunrise, I'm sure they'd feel quite journalistic if they had someone on arguing that the it comes up in the west.

    Funny you mention balance (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:33:03 AM EST
    A while since the last open so I had a few things waiting.

    crooks and liars

    Concha then went on to enumerate the second and presumably more important aspect.

    "More importantly we'll look at integrity...Every host's job is to present two sides of every story and let the audience come to their own conclusions."

    Wait, what? What is he talking about here, specifically? Either you're doing an opinion show like Hannity does every damn night or you're doing a news broadcast. If you're doing opinion, then both sides aren't required, nor can the audience sort it out because it's not fact-based. It's opinion.

    If, on the other hand, you're doing a news broadcast, you have a duty to the facts. This is where so much journalism fails. In their zeal to present "both sides" they put on ridiculous stories like "death panels," in order to appear as though there's no bias.

    Example: Jim Hoft's clumsy effort to fabricate facts this week cried out for journalists to actually get some real facts from real sources, on the record. That never happened, leaving the door wide open for a Battle of the Anonymous Sources, where Hannity/Hoft/Fox News' anonymous sources say Darren Wilson suffered a "blowout of his left orbital socket" while CNN's anonymous sources say that's absolutely untrue.

    But Concha wants the audience to sort it out. Yeah. Pick your trusted news and go with that, but really, until there's something more concrete, no one knows. I tend to disbelieve Fox because Hoft felt the need to invent evidence to support his story, and Hoft is a known liar who makes things up to drive traffic into his site, which Drudge cheerfully does for him.

    Wasn't LGF a rightie sight.? (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by magster on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 11:32:04 AM EST
    they've been pretty good during this whole Ferguson thing.

    Maybe I have misjudged (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 11:11:08 AM EST
    Little green footballs

    The President is sending three White House officials to the funeral service of Michael Brown in St. Louis on Monday:

    Leading the group for Monday's service will be the chairman of the My Brother's Keeper Task Force, Broderick Johnson. My Brother's Keeper is an Obama initiative that aims to empower young minorities. Johnson is also the secretary for the Cabinet.

    Also attending will be the deputy director of the White House Office of Public Engagement, Marlon Marshall, and an adviser for the office, Heather Foster.

    And here's how deranged, openly racist right wing blogger Jim Hoft sees it:

    Reports: White House to Send All Black Delegation to Michael Brown Funeral

    Just added a bookmark to LGF


    Oh (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:44:34 PM EST
    you should click on some of the links. Conservatives have bought every lie put out there by their bosses hook line and sinker. What an embarrassment for them if they had the decency to even be embarrassed which they don't.

    for starters on Little Green Footballs... (none / 0) (#159)
    by crimebird on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:04:44 PM EST
    that blog USED to be very right wing but around 2009, that blog very openly changed its polarity...just check its entry on Wikipedia.

    Hmmmm (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:18:28 PM EST
    Let's see, what else happened around that time that might make them want to distance themselves from the insane racism of the right.

    Gosh, I can't think of a thing.


    I think there were ancillary actions before that (none / 0) (#166)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:22:20 PM EST
    like his coinage of the term "Shrieking Harpy" for a certain bat-sh*t-for-brains RWinger.........

    Hey, NYCStray, if you are online (5.00 / 6) (#19)
    by caseyOR on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 11:10:47 AM EST
    please check in, and let us know how you fared in this morning's earthquake. Marin is awfully close to Napa, and 6.0 is a good-sized quake.

    Hope you and the animals are all okay.

    Howdy! (5.00 / 5) (#55)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:09:44 PM EST
    Actually not in Marin, but the south Napa Valley just down the road from the epicenter. And yeah, it was a good sized quake as it woke me up, lol!~ My old house held up just fine and I have electric etc. One cat and the dog were unphased, the other cat and bird were quite disturbed. The old church behind me still has the bell tower, so I'm happy :) Wineries, an olive oil company and some historic buildings didn't fare so well :(

    Oh and Ball canning jars hit the floor from 6ft up and didn't break! That would have been a mess of jams, salsas and sauces mixed with glass if they did :P Luckily, my dishes are in the cabinet under the counter, so that was good.

    Thanks for checking on me! :)


    So glad you and the animals are okay. (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by caseyOR on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:02:40 PM EST
    Thanks for checking in. And let's hear it for Ball canning jars. Survived a 6 foot drop, eh? Maybe you should notify the Ball jar people. I am seeing the ad in my mind's eye right now.   :-)

    Ha (none / 0) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:10:58 PM EST
    Actually that was casey.  But I am casey too so.....

    Thank god for the canned goods (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:11:56 PM EST
    Down on the SF peninsula near SFO... (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Dadler on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:28:54 PM EST
    ...it jolted my ass up and out of bed. We didn't get anything near what they did in Napa, no damage, and the missus and junior slept through it, but what I felt was a damn strong few seconds.

    More disturbing (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:07:38 PM EST
    We have a place (none / 0) (#92)
    by cpresley on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:53:20 PM EST
    That overlooks Lake Oroville,but on the other side of the lake. It's amazing to watch that much water drain so quickly. Hoping it rains soon.

    I know that lack of rain in really no joking (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:37:23 PM EST
    matter, but..........

    Your community should give me and my friends an all expense paid vacation in your area. We seems to bring rain where ever we go.

    On a more serious note, I hope your area gets the rain it needs soon.


    Sounds lovely (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:13:00 PM EST
    When there is water.  Probably sort of depressing now.  
    Sending rain vibes your way.

    The Ferguson Police report about the incident (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 11:16:46 AM EST
    Oh wait. Wasn't it etched in stone he never (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 11:46:44 AM EST
    called it in?  

    In Your Mind, Maybe (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:02:45 PM EST
    And it will be for some time, according to Brian Schellman, a spokesman for the St. Louis County police department. Schellman told TIME that the department does not intend to release the "investigative" component of the incident report, the part that details Wilson's version of events.

    Schellman said that under the Missouri State "Sunshine" Law, the department was not required to release the information during a pending investigation. As a result, Wilson's account of what happens will remain confidential unless it is presented by a prosecutor, Schellman said.

    "We will not release it," said Schellman, who noted that this is the county's normal procedure. "This isn't any different than a typical larceny from a local convenience store."

    Wilson never filed a report on the incident, according to the office of the St. Louis County prosecutor. The case was quickly turned over to the county at the request of local police. According to the document, the St. Louis County police entered the incident report on Aug. 19, 10 days after the shooting. It was approved for release the following morning.

    more details about "the report" here


    "We will not release it," said Schellman (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:11:01 PM EST
    "We will not release it," said Schellman, who noted that this is the county's normal procedure. "This isn't any different than a typical larceny from a local convenience store."

    But you did release the incident report  and video of Brown in the local convenience store.

    So then who should we believe, Schellman???


    Incident Report (none / 0) (#38)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:34:02 PM EST
    There is no incident report as far as anyone knows. And if and when Wilson fills out an incident report, Schellman will not release it.

    There is a report of the call in, that was filled in by the St Louis County PD.


    He never filed an incident report. (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by magster on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:04:02 PM EST
    Thought you were going to wait (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:04:36 PM EST
    until all the facts were in and known about this case before commenting on it?

    Waiting to reach any conclusions as to whether thi (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:06:13 PM EST
    officer-involved shooting was legally justifiable.

    a very lawyerly answer (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:46:59 PM EST
    41 minutes is pretty close to never (none / 0) (#27)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:01:17 PM EST
    especially when he's 41 minutes late and there are already other police on the scene and yellow tape up and his SUV has been removed from the scene and so has he.

    Where did he make the call from -- the police station???


    I want you to know (none / 0) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:14:08 PM EST
    That I understand where you are coming from about getting the facts.

    It is all a little terrifying though to me also.  It really seems to me that if people across the nation weren't losing their minds over this, that there would be no substantial investigations and the truth would never be revealed due to a flurry of denial and evidence lost.  And this seems to be a pattern in some parts of the country for law enforcement.

    I don't want to live in a nation without law enforcement, at the same time law enforcement has some issues that must be faced and resolved.


    In my experience, which does not include (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:02:05 PM EST
    Ferguson/St. Louis Co./or MO, officer-involved shootings are meticulously investigated by a law enforcement agency other than the agency employing the officer.

    Yup (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Cylinder on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:14:42 PM EST
    I've already emailed a MO trooper who I served in the USAF with but don't really expect a reply until he's back from vacation.

    Smaller departments usually aren't staffed to investigate themselves. In Arkansas, the ASP investigates all OIS fatalities regardless of jurisdiction as you suggest is standard for many departments.

    I would guess that FPD's assertion that they didn't create an incident report will be explained by the fact that they weren't the agency with jurisdiction.


    Police investigations where I live (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:16:08 PM EST
    Are not so thorough.  I have never lived anyplace where I feared the local law enforcement like I do here.  But you must have much more training in Wyoming and Colorado than you need here.  And no psych eval here.  

    When I lived in Wyoming there was a local wannabe who had the required college education and also served 4 yrs in the military, he applied for every local law enforcement job available but could not pass the psych evaluation and he was never hired.


    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:10:32 PM EST
    My fat disturbed sociopath nephew wants to be a state cop more than anything. He even lost 40 lbs at one point in hopes of it helping him get in.  He has failed the psyche eval twice.
    He was only allowed to take it a second time because his grandfather, my brother in law, has political connections in the state and personally spoke to the governor.  Really.

    Honestly it has renewed a bit if my faith in the screening process.  We are talking about a person who has said in an unguarded moment that he likes working as a EMT, in addition to his on and off local deputy duties, because he likes dealing with mangled dead bodies.

    I wish I was being funny.


    Qualification for the Job? (none / 0) (#76)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:13:33 PM EST
    We are talking about a person who has said in an unguarded moment that he likes working as a EMT, in addition to his on and off local deputy duties, because he likes dealing with mangled dead bodies.

    Isn't that a good thing?


    Creeped the he11 (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:21:33 PM EST
    Out of me then and still does.  The knob is still a cop.  Well on and off.  He was in a bit of trouble recently for stopping people and acting like a cop, because he is allowed to have the lights on his vehicle, when he in fact was not a cop.

    That incident may have been key to the state police saying something like "are you freaking kidding me?"


    One more (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:50:30 PM EST
    True story
    He is getting married one week from today and a told my sister I was considering getting him a set of a Dexter knifes as a wedding present.

    My sis "pfft ain't you ashamed? Anyway encouragement is the last thing we need. Ohhhhh you always make me say the worst things!"

    Me "that's my job"


    Dexter Knives (none / 0) (#94)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:57:53 PM EST
    Bad idea, could make you an accessory.

    Better to get him a year gift certificate for the pharmacy (meds only)..


    The only thing you need to be (none / 0) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:03:47 PM EST
    An Enterprise police officer is a H.S.diploma, a background check, 18 weeks at their "police academy", 10 weeks of field training, and pass the PT test.  No degrees in criminal justice or anything more involved needed.

    Enterprise a town? (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:10:42 PM EST
    If so same here unfortunately.  I think it may only depend on you having the required amount of camouflage clothing.

    Fortunately a different story for the state police.


    There is unequal justice for locals here (none / 0) (#112)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:32:51 PM EST
    If you can afford my lawyer they won't attempt to foist bull on you once they discover he represents you.  If the town of Enterprise does foist some bull on one of his clients he appeals it all the way up to sanity.  They hate him.  I was told I was a bully when I hired him but as the years unroll it is obviously that the Enterprise yokels at the courthouse are the bullies and he doesn't let them get away with it.  You can have all the justice you can afford here.

    Not 41 minutes (none / 0) (#28)
    by Cylinder on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:02:28 PM EST
    If one counts the 12:02 dispatch as Wilson's backup (and there is significant uncertainty regarding that), the next dispatch is 12:05, another at 12:10, etc... By 12:45 there were 6 units that had responded as ON SCENE. The call was upgraded in the system to the incident address at 12:04 and the call type was upgraded at 12:11 from "police service" (probably the sick call with the uncertainty caveat) to "domestic in progress" then immediately to "disturbance in progress."

    It's again important to note that the times reflected do not established when the dispatch received the information, but when they entered it into the computer system.


    Police are all over the map on this timeline (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:21:28 PM EST
    12:01:50 p.m., a shooting event is opened by the Ferguson police department.

    So which is it???

    Was it opened after Wilson called it in or when they heard about it on the news or after one of the other officers realized that Wilson forgot to call it in and did so himself???

     No wonder the FPD doesn't want to issue an incident report.


    Seems consistent (none / 0) (#111)
    by Cylinder on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:31:54 PM EST
    The documents seem to at least have internal consistency.

    The original [reacted] incident report on the disturbance call is available via Scribd.

    1201--The disturbance call was received.
    1202--The patrol unit was dispatched to respond to disturbance.
    1202--The patrol unit advised that it was on scene.
    1935--The patrol unit advised that it had left the scene.

    I'm provisionally assuming that the first-on-scene patrol officer was the one dispatched referencing Wilson's alleged call for backup, since the dispatch time and arrive time are the same. There is significant uncertainty regarding this assumption. It is also quite plausible that the response time was a product of the strong-arm robbery BOLO that is alleged to have occurred near-in-time to the incident.

    A 1201 initial report time makes it fairly unlikely that the dispatcher learned of the event by watching the news, remembering that the robbery report was made at 1151.

    Moving over to the FPD event log, (PDF via Scribd)

    1202--Event opened
    1202--Patrol unit arrived on scene
    1204--Address changed from Florissant to Coppercreek at Canefield
    1204--Unit dispatched
    1210--Unit dispatched
    1211--Arrived on scene
    1211--Event category changed from police service to domestic/in progress
    1211--Event category changed from domestic/in progress to disturbance/in progress


    What seems fairly clear is that the police narrative requires officers on scene very quickly after the incident and no 40-minute delay in reporting or response.


    This article contains some information re (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:09:24 PM EST
    notifications and arrivals:



    County Police (none / 0) (#122)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:07:30 PM EST
    So in those videos those are mainly the County Police arriving right after the shooting -- not so much the Ferguson PD.

    12:07 the County Police get the call, 12:10 EMT passing by checks the body as seen on the video, and then the County Police begin arriving at 12:15 as seen on video.

    So then when the County Police arrive on the scene where is Officer Wilson and where is his SUV????

    We see the body on the ground as County Police arrive but no Ferguson SUV and no officer Wilson.

    Were both already back at the Ferguson police station by then???

    Were they trying to avoid the County Police???

    Maybe they had some more work to do -- on his  injuries and on his story??

    It was not until 12:43 p.m. that detectives from the county police force were notified of the shooting, according to county police records. ...
    The detectives arrived around 1:30, and an hour later, a forensic investigator ...


    12:43 pm (none / 0) (#126)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:30:59 PM EST
    It was not until 12:43 p.m. that detectives from the county police force were notified of the shooting, according to county police records. ...
    The detectives arrived around 1:30, and an hour later, a forensic investigator ...

    So here's what we learn:

    Though the County Police begin arriving on the scene at 12:15 after being called at 12:07, officer Wilson didn't call them to report the officer involved shooting, as is required by law, until 12:43 and where he was by then one can only surmise.



    The perp you mentioned with the (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:23:13 PM EST
    name of Michael Brown was living 50 miles from Ferguson at the time of the arrest, and was born in 1997, while the dead man was born in 1998.

    Nice try at smearing a dead person, James, and minimizing the fact that he was no threat to anyone when he was killed.

    I noted that it may not be him (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:48:05 PM EST
    And the fact that it happened 50 miles from Ferguson is meaningless.

    Nice try and thinking we haven't heard of automobiles.

    BTW - Can you show us a credible link with the birthdates??


    If you want to be the (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:49:32 PM EST
    Expert on the case in this thread, you might do your own research aside from watching Fox News and perusing certain websites before coming to any conclusions you feel are worth sharing with us here.  

    Actually the only "experts" (none / 0) (#98)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:08:25 PM EST
    I have found are right here.

    We have them condemning a person because of where he is from.

    We have them ignoring established facts that clearly go to the actions of Brown.

    We have them publishing descriptions that include a fence that doesn't exist.

    And what do you?? Complain that I watch FNC. Which, of course, you have no proof of.

    And on and on...


    What established facts. Are you talking about the (none / 0) (#104)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:14:02 PM EST
    Autopsy results, or the eyewitness who said that Brown was shot when he had his hands up?  

    Pending the release of any official investigation in the matter, to speak of "established facts" is, in essence, an oxymoron.


    There is this thingee (1.00 / 0) (#124)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:27:24 PM EST
    called a video.

    You may not have heard of the technology.


    Then linking to it (none / 0) (#150)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:42:39 PM EST
    shouldn't be an impossibility for a self-described techie such as you, correct?

    You mean like this (none / 0) (#156)
    by magster on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:02:18 PM EST
    video? Watch the whole thing if you can to try to understand the problem of police brutality nationwide, not just Ferguson.

    Horrible... (none / 0) (#190)
    by desertswine on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:36:31 PM EST
    Police violence must stop.

    You're (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:35:43 PM EST
    a perfect example of what is wrong with the tea party. They don't want the facts. They want to hold on to their fantasy world longer and longer.

    In bizarro tea party land it's terrible to show up on a ranch of a proven criminal someone who has been through a court system and been proven guilty time and again and but it's okay to believe that someone is guilty automatically based on rumors not facts.

    And if this police officer is such a bad judge of what is dangerouns and is not, he should be taken off the police force. He's not fit to be an officer.

    TMZ of all people... (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by magster on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:38:35 PM EST
    are reporting that British authorities suspect this rapper was the guy in the Foley video.

    NYT Reports (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:12:23 PM EST
    The five-minute video released by ISIS, now the focus of intensive forensic analysis by British and American authorities, is narrated in part by the killer, wearing a black hood with eyeholes, who addresses the camera in English before putting a knife in his left hand to the journalist's throat. The video then skips ahead to show Mr. Foley's severed head atop his corpse in the sand, with what appears to be a different knife lying nearby. [Jeralyn ahead of the curve, as usual]

    Speculation among terrorism experts and the British news media has focused on a number of militants known to have joined ISIS, including a 24-year-old London rapper named Abdel-Majed Abdel Bary. Mr. Bary's father, Adel Abdel Bary, was extradited to the United from Britain in 2012 after a long legal battle to face terrorism charges in Al Qaeda's bombing of two American Embassies in East Africa in 1998.

    The NYT story suggests that this is more a recuirtment video for British Militants, than anything else.. The fact that a Westerner did the deed, or may have done the deed, or probably did not do the deed but was a stand in for the Preview of the deed.

    "Did you see what we can do? There is more!!" wrote one ISIS supporter monitored by SITE. Another wrote, "I was happy to see the beheading of that kaafir." Kaafir is the Arabic word for unbeliever.

    To judge by Twitter and other social media, "British militants have been impressed that this was done by a British guy," said Raffaello Pantucci, director of international security studies at the Royal United Services Institute and author of an upcoming book about Muslim extremists in Britain.



    While I tend to agree (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:22:10 PM EST
    the ISIS/ISIL threat has been exaggerated the one thing that really gives me pause is the reported number of "western" recruits.  Not just British but many French and others from all over Europe and most likely some Americans.
    These are apparently people who can re-enter these countries with little or no trouble.

    Good lord (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:11:39 PM EST
    Telegraph (none / 0) (#79)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:22:01 PM EST

    According to reports ... former ISIS hostages have given him the nickname "John the Beatle" -- because of his British accent.

    Hmmmm...  looks like TMZ is stretching things quite a bit..

    From the Telegraph (also not the highest in the food chain)

    Razul Islam is understood to be on a list of suspected British Jihadists whom the security services are comparing with the footage of Mr Foley's killer, a British man known as "John" described as the leader of a British cell of jihadists known as "The Beatles".

    Investigators will also be keen to rule out Abdel-Majed Abdel Bary, 23, a former rapper from Maida Vale, west London, who went to Syria last year and later tweeted a picture of himself holding up a severed head. He has a similar accent to the man who killed Mr Foley, and has a similar build and skin tone.

    Trying to keep up with the Alitos. (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by KeysDan on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:41:18 PM EST
    To address the case of the evangelical Christian, Wheaton College, the Obama Administration, last Friday, offered a rule that goes into effect right a way allowing a religious college or non-profit to notify the Dept of HHS of its religious objections to pay for insurance coverage for contraceptives. HHS would then contact insurance companies and arrange the birth control coverage at no cost to the employer or employees (the insurance company is reimbursed by the government). Previously, the groups were to notify the insurance companies directly--- a "complicit" and burdensome step to which they objected.  If a particular form is objectionable, employers can just inform the government.

    Another rule proposed attempts to  accommodate the Hobby Lobby case--a business that meets the definition of small, privately held, and not publicly traded. Such owners with religious objections would also be able to contact the government (directly) to express their objections. The proposed rule is subject to a comment period of 60-days.

    These rules are unlikely to satisfy all objectors, but is more likely to comply with the Supreme Court as they follow almost to the letter the "rule suggestions" of the majority in its novel application of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act by its interpretation that the federal government may not "substantially burden a person's exercise of religion."  Moreover, in my view, the redressing of a grievance to the government, even if not entirely responsive to the particular view, should not be a burdensome.  Of course, if directness is to be the defining virtue, Congress should amend, or, preferably, repeal the RFRA.

    Should he have been shot? (5.00 / 5) (#109)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:24:08 PM EST
    All I have read and seen tell me that the officer was in fear for his life and was justified in what he did.

    You're kidding right??? What was there to fear???

    The kid was unarmed except for a few cigarillos.

    The cop was two inches taller than the kid with arms as long as rakes.

    The kid ran leaving the cop in his car with his gun where all he had to do was close the door, roll up the window, and call for backup.

    If he wanted to chase him down he had mace, pepper spray, baton, tazer, his own big size, and his buddies that should have been arriving on the scene if he followed protocol and called it in.

    It was daytime and a nice residential neighborhood.

    It wasn't fear that pulled that trigger but more like anger -- anger that the kid didn't hop to it and say "yessir" when bossman spoke.

    You will learn that (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:33:38 PM EST
    Is SOP for ppj.
    Toss out some reeking chum in the hopes of starting a - no, you are -- no, YOU are - back and forth until the thread is full.
     Personally I do my best to ignore him but sometimes it's just not possible.  
    Arguing with him is OTOH the very definition of peeing into the wind.

    Police Anger (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:33:51 PM EST
    From your linked WaPo article about Jennings PD
    "The straw that broke the camel's back, an officer shot at a female. She was stopped for a traffic violation. She had a child in the back [of the] car and was probably worried about getting locked up. And this officer chased her down Highway 70, past city limits, and took a shot at her. Just ridiculous."

    Police faced a series of lawsuits for using unnecessary force, Stichnote said. One black resident, Cassandra Fuller, sued the department claiming a white Jennings police officer beat her in June 2009 on her own porch after she made a joke. A car had smashed into her van, which was parked in front of her home, and she called police. The responding officer asked her to move the van. "It don't run. You can take it home with you if you want," she answered. She said the officer became enraged, threw her off the porch, knocked her to the ground and kicked her in the stomach.

    And then the young man (2.00 / 0) (#131)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:36:59 PM EST
    didn't stop.

    He turned around and ran towards Wilson.

    Mr. Brown, 18, was also shot four times in the right arm, he said, adding that all the bullets were fired into his front.



    Usually people don't have (none / 0) (#153)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:49:13 PM EST
    their arm at a significant distance from their body when they're running, so you've pointed out yet another discrepancy in the "official" account.

    All I know is what the (none / 0) (#163)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:16:05 PM EST
    world famous and highly respected Medical Examiner
    hired by the family says.

    And yes, the arms swing back and forth with the front forward as people run.


    Pretty good shot then to hit (none / 0) (#172)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:32:38 PM EST
    a swinging arm at that distance, especially since all the LEO training I'm aware of is geared to shoot at the center of the person you're targeting, and not to wing them in the leg or arm like something out of a cowboy western.

    And it raises the question again as to why a presumably rational teen would run towards someone who is pointing a gun at them, and an LEO, to boot.


    The fact is that the arm (2.00 / 0) (#193)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:45:58 PM EST
    hits merely prove that he was just shooting at someone that was running at him.

    I doubt you have fired a pistol.


    How do they prove he was running at him? (5.00 / 0) (#197)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:10:14 PM EST
    He could have been turning or other movement aside from running at the cop.

    Would you run at a cop that had a  gun aimed at your chest?


    How do you know... (none / 0) (#187)
    by unitron on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:15:22 PM EST
    ...it wasn't actually not so good shooting--as in "aimed for center mass, but wound up hitting about a foot or so to the shooter's left"?

    Let's try that again (5.00 / 2) (#202)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 11:55:42 PM EST
    That "prejudiced against the color blue" (5.00 / 2) (#207)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:32:09 AM EST
    spiel couldn't help but put me in mind of slimeball DA Doug Mulder's speech about the "Thin Blue Line" in the Randall Adams trial. The withholding of exculpatory evidence in a capital case be damned! it was still an inspiring speech..

    Just so can the bottom-feeding, race-baiting Jim, with his portrayals of Obama with a bone in his nose, and claims of Holder ties to the Black Panthers, still set our hearts a flutter with his stentorian tones..  

    I have a "friend" who keeps sending me (none / 0) (#26)
    by ZtoA on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 11:55:35 AM EST
    links to Alex Jones, GlobalResearch and others. He's saying that the CIA is behind ISIS and the neo-cons are running the show behind Obama's back. Ugh. I don't have much time to look at all those horrible websites. Does anyone know anything about those ideas about the CIA and ISIS? Maybe my policy of ignoring him is the best.

    There are always CIA rumors (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:50:19 PM EST
    And I know many are frightened that Obama will end up making a military commitment vs. humanitarian commitment.  I just don't see it though.

    I think the CIA is busy though.  They are busy keeping tabs on ISIL fighters, foreign fighters joining, gathering information on who the leaders are, are they all extremists?  And we have NATO allies involved too.  I would think it would be very difficult to run an operation meant to herd the President into something without him knowing it and not be discovered.


    Snowden Hoax (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:56:38 PM EST
    From Global Research

    Kurtz traces responsibility for the "Snowden Hoax" to a German website, www.shababek.de, and Kareem al-Baidani.

    Glenn Greenwald and others state there is no evidence in the Snowden cache that ISIS is linked to the CIA, Mossad or any other intelligence agency.

    Greenwald points to Ben Wizner, a lawyer with the ACLU, who retweets spy novelist Jeremy Duns. Duns provides a link to the Kurtz blog post claiming to document the "Snowden Hoax" and a lack of definitive evidence connecting ISIS to the CIA or Mossad and pointing back to Iranian propaganda.

    Global Research


    More (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:58:54 PM EST
    More here on the Snowden Hoax

    Sounds (none / 0) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:31:38 PM EST
    like one of those oath keeper or tea party conspiracy theorists. You might try sending some links debunking it and seeing if that works--probably not. I had one of these people sending me stuff and I kept debunking it and also laughing at her. She finally quit.

    It's all about this one world conspiracy theory and they try to make every event fit into their nonsense.


    Ignoring these websites (none / 0) (#40)
    by Politalkix on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:39:10 PM EST
    may be a more sensible thing to do. However, I have also wondered many a time like a few others in TL about how ISIS became what they did in such a short period of time.

    I will not be surprised if there is a Saudi connection to it. The Arab spring revolts may have led the Saudi monarchy to think that they may be a future domino to fall. They may therefore have encouraged the most extreme people in Saudi Arabia to go and create a Caliphate somewhere else to thwart a future rebellion within Saudi Arabia from these same elements. The Saudis are like Pakistan of the Middle East. They are officially our allies but more often than not support elements that are inimical to the principles we espouse or even our strategic interests based on realpolitik considerations. Here is a link about that country that shows why we should be concerned.

    There is also a history that leads to my suspicions.link After the seizure of the Grand mosque in 1979, the Saudi monarchy spent billions of dollars to export Salafism around the globe in the following decades so that attention of jihadists would be occupied elsewhere instead of overthrowing the House of Saud.


    The $$$ support of the Saudis (none / 0) (#138)
    by christinep on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:08:57 PM EST
    has, indeed, been reported in the past few days.  Your supposition is fairly accurate.

    Very Unlikely, IMO (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:20:16 PM EST
    Hmmm...too complex for me (none / 0) (#188)
    by christinep on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:23:29 PM EST
    Apart from the "hoax" (and various forms of the classic backstabbing that involves) ... apart from the labyrinth, the potential Saudi Arabian role does not seem that far-flung to me.  Why? Historical patterns.

    But:  That is only "gut reaction" on my part.


    How disappointing... (none / 0) (#194)
    by unitron on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:57:33 PM EST
    ...it was only about Snowden.

    Snowmen hoax would have been much more interesting.


    Typical Right Wing White Man's Position (none / 0) (#41)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:43:13 PM EST
    That's where the change must start because without it we will either have more Brown's or we will learn to tolerate more Brown's.

    You may want to learn about racism in the south and places like St. Louis.

    Where things must change is White Power Police et al. believing that Black men and women are inferior race, who should be subjugated .

    The nearby town of Jennings was forced to dismantle their entire PD because of abject racism. Wilson came from that PD.

    When you have a town PD like Ferguson, that depends on traffic stops for 25% of their budget, and uses racial profiling to inform their traffic stops because black people are less likely to be able to afford an attorney to fight the charges and will be find per guilty charge, you have a problem that needs to change.

    Racism is the problem here. People like Wilson are the problem, not victims like Brown.

    Hooey, squeaky (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 12:54:23 PM EST
    I have seen more racism up close and personal that you have read about.

    Try this on.

    You condemn others for judging people based on their skin color and yet you judge Wilson because of where he came from.

    The nearby town of Jennings was forced to dismantle their entire PD because of abject racism. Wilson came from that PD.

    That is pure hypocrisy.


    You are so full of sh!t (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:02:13 PM EST
    Now its your turn (1.00 / 1) (#84)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:44:55 PM EST
    You are judging an individual based on were he is from...

    Can't catch on??

    What does that make you?


    Insightful? (none / 0) (#88)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:49:59 PM EST
    Really?? (none / 0) (#95)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:00:27 PM EST
    You mean like Bull Connor was?

    A Friend of Yours? Relative? (none / 0) (#106)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:19:38 PM EST
    Our people of Birmingham are a peaceful people and we never have any trouble here unless some people come into our city looking for trouble. And I've never seen anyone yet look for trouble who wasn't able to find it.

    Sounds like something you would say..


    Sorry squeaky (none / 0) (#125)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:30:57 PM EST
    I hate to tell you this because it will hurt your feelings but you are the one condemning someone because they are from a certain place...

    You know... exactly like Bull did.

    The wheel has turned.


    Twisted Logic ala PPJ (none / 0) (#134)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:52:06 PM EST
    Accusing me of reverse racism? Sharing sentiments with your Uncle Bull?

    That is the defensive cry of many white separatists.

    Guess that puts you in the running for grand weasel.

    Ever heard of video?


    Darren Wilson's Charity Page (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:15:37 PM EST
    It's really upsetting.... (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by magster on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:26:02 PM EST
    Obama's presidency and anonymous internet commenting really exposed the myth of post-racial America.

    I sure hope he pays his income taxes on this (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by Angel on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:29:00 PM EST
    hard-earned loot.

    Gifts (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Peter G on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:34:41 PM EST
    are not taxable income.  Nor are they deductible contributions, of course, by the donor.  The entity or individuals that created the GoFundMe site, however, may have taxable income, depending on how it is organized and administered.

    Depends on the amount of the gift. I believe the (none / 0) (#133)
    by Angel on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:50:21 PM EST
    amount per individual is $13,000.  Not arguing, just clarifying that he could owe some taxes.  

    No, not correct. (none / 0) (#136)
    by Peter G on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:05:25 PM EST
    A common misunderstanding, however. The "gift tax" to which you refer falls, if at all, on the giver, not on the recipient.

    There's a reason I hire a CPA to do my taxes. :} (none / 0) (#139)
    by Angel on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:09:07 PM EST
    I am sure the looters have (none / 0) (#100)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:10:30 PM EST
    already submitted 1099's.

    Oh really??? (none / 0) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:50:25 PM EST
    An appeal for justice and pointing out the outrageous statement of the Guv is racism??

    Please excerpt the relevant parts of (none / 0) (#93)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:55:43 PM EST
    The racist statement so that we can judge it for ourselves.

    The facts are before you (none / 0) (#96)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:01:45 PM EST
    Show your cards or fold, James (none / 0) (#105)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:14:42 PM EST
    Those are your two choices.

    Read'em and weep (none / 0) (#128)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 04:31:55 PM EST
    The cards are face up.

    Braggadocio (none / 0) (#151)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:43:50 PM EST
    isn't evidence, James.

    Just the facts, mam. (none / 0) (#168)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:24:33 PM EST
    I gave'em.

    Denial doesn't refute them.


    The condemnation is for a (5.00 / 3) (#180)
    by Anne on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 08:05:25 PM EST
    government institution that fosters a culture that treats people of color differently than it does whites; that institutional culture of racism appears to be "where Wilson is from."  He left one police department that was so bad it had to be disbanded, and found a job in another one that ought to suffer the same fate.

    The statistics don't lie.  They tell a tale of a police force that funds its budget on the backs of mostly poor black people.

    It's not that the casual racism that still exists in the private sector is okay - it absolutely isn't - it's that the cretins who feel special because they can throw around the n-word, or post pictures of the president with a bone in his nose, don't have the power to affect people's lives in the same way as do people in positions of authority, and who, in this case, also happen to carry guns.

    Whether you have or haven't seen more racism than others is irrelevant; it's that you foster it that matters.

    And you can bet I'll condemn that all day long.


    To your point, have you seen this case? (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by NYShooter on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 08:28:35 PM EST
    "Police in Ferguson, Missouri, once charged a man with destruction of property for bleeding on their uniforms while four of them allegedly beat him."


    Four years ago the Ferguson PD arrested a man (later found to be mistaken identity,) beat him to a bloody pulp while in custody, forced him to stay in jail under barbaric conditions because there was no one available to arraign him, and, after being compelled to release him, charged him with, "property damage," or, "bleeding on their uniforms," caused by the beating they inflicted on him.

    This would be too outlandish even for an Onion piece, yet, it seems to be true.


    BTW, check my reply to you (none / 0) (#184)
    by NYShooter on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 08:41:14 PM EST
    from yesterday under the Post, "James Foley Killing," comment # 43.

    Like squeaky (none / 0) (#192)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:42:44 PM EST
    you condemn Wilson because of where he is from.

    The evidence speaks you as well as him.

    Both of you remind me of some of the folks I grew up with.

    I escaped.

    To bad you have not. In fact, I doubt you've even tried.


    Don't you ever get tired of trolling here? (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by magster on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:22:47 PM EST
    Hardly (none / 0) (#51)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:05:00 PM EST
    Just the facts.

    Over 90% of the Ferguson traffic stops are for Black people.

    And that is typical of the policing in the area.

    The town of Jennings racist PD is not an outlier, it is typical.


    What ever the PD of Jennings (1.00 / 2) (#86)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:47:59 PM EST
    was and whatever the PD of Ferguson is what you are doing is judging a person based on his color, which is "blue."

    If you want to argue that is the right thing to do please please please never claim that you are a liberal.


    Truth To Power (none / 0) (#91)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:53:03 PM EST
    When you call out truth to Power it is not called Racism (or reverse racism as you would have it), it is called Bravery.

    That's what Bull said (none / 0) (#99)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:09:44 PM EST
    BS (none / 0) (#107)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:20:55 PM EST
    Got a quote?

    From your scrapbook?


    One more time (none / 0) (#173)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:33:23 PM EST
    for Squeaky and the rest...

    There is no difference between judging Wilson because of where he comes from is no different that judging some one based on the color of his skin.

    As Dr. King said.

    "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."


    I posted this late in yesterday's thread. (none / 0) (#61)
    by magster on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:22:00 PM EST
    Been saying this (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 02:16:13 PM EST
    Since day one

    But Squeaky, isn't the population (none / 0) (#195)
    by SuzieTampa on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:00:48 PM EST
    of Ferguson about two-thirds African American? So, 90% is disproportionate, but not as much as if blacks were in the minority there.

    Got It (none / 0) (#198)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 10:21:53 PM EST
    Racial profiling is just the price to pay for being brown.

    How about the cops at Jennings? Did they get a raw deal.


    American hostage released in Syria (none / 0) (#63)
    by Politalkix on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 01:25:36 PM EST
    Ok, this is creepy (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:38:56 PM EST
    Buddhas (none / 0) (#118)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:42:43 PM EST
    not babies...

    I will consume Buddha (none / 0) (#119)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:45:51 PM EST
    This is cute.  They do adore and protect each pear as it grows on the branch.  It is a luxury in Korea to have a pear.  They placed a protective cone around each set pear to grow in when I was there over ten years ago :).

    Korean BBQ sauce with pear juice and soy sauce (none / 0) (#120)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 03:56:46 PM EST
    is great with beef or pork.  Love that stuff.

    I miss the food (none / 0) (#171)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:27:24 PM EST
    I miss all the different kimchi.

    I love kimchi (none / 0) (#175)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:48:04 PM EST
    That reminds me I have not had it in years.  I would have to order it.  Maybe I will do just that.  Any source suggestions?

    Or does it even come in jars? (none / 0) (#176)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:48:54 PM EST
    True Blood series finale tonight (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:26:55 PM EST
    I am really going to miss Jason Stackhouse.  I truly hope Ryan Kwaten gets another gig that requires he frequently takes his clothes off very soon

    Till then (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:29:39 PM EST
    I don't think that's the same Brown (none / 0) (#149)
    by crimebird on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 05:41:56 PM EST
    ...for the reasons other people have given (difference in where that Brown lives and the age difference)

    This is your brain on Fox News? (none / 0) (#177)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 06:51:17 PM EST
    Any questions?

    Another example of the quality hiring by the (none / 0) (#179)
    by Angel on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 07:52:56 PM EST
    Whoa. That one officer does (allegedly) like (none / 0) (#181)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 08:26:57 PM EST
    to hit 12 year old kids with his gun.  If I were tasteless, I'd indulge in a bit of pschobabblish speculation as to what that means, but I'm not, so I won't.

    lol. my kingdom for the ability to edit. (none / 0) (#182)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 08:28:21 PM EST
    - psychobabblish

    Still not a real word, but closer.


    Best Earthquake Photo Ever: (none / 0) (#185)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 08:44:18 PM EST
    The end of liberal zionism (none / 0) (#186)
    by Politalkix on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:12:57 PM EST
    You cannot escape your words (none / 0) (#191)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:39:04 PM EST
    they indict and convict you.

    New Yorker (none / 0) (#201)
    by magster on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 11:13:57 PM EST

    Contrast: (none / 0) (#203)
    by lentinel on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:19:01 AM EST
    • Assad in Syria: WE MUST ACT!

    • ISIS in Iraq: WE MUST ACT!

    * Between 2000 and 2010, a total of 335,609 people died from guns -- more than the population of St. Louis, Mo. (318,069), Pittsburgh (307,484), Cincinnati, Ohio (296,223), Newark, N.J. (277,540), and Orlando, Fla. (243,195) (sources:  CDF, U.S. Census; CDC)
    One person is killed by a firearm every 17 minutes, 87 people are killed during an average day, and 609 are killed every week. (source: CDC)

    We really should do something about that sometime. Remind me.

    One shot, I could believe, but four? (none / 0) (#204)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:10:02 AM EST
    And FWIW, I have shot a pistol before, so please quit making statements about me you have no documentation for, unless your goal is to embarrass yourself and win some sympathy points from the peanut gallery.

    For Capt Howdy on kimchi (none / 0) (#205)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:13:43 AM EST
    In the US the only kimchi I have seen available for purchase is cabbage.  In Korea, the restaurants make their own kimchi and many different vegetables are used like cucumber and white radish.  There was a kimchi I had in Korea made out of greens that I still don't know what it was.  I thought I would have it more times and learn about it but we only had it served to us once and so far nobody knows what it was.  I did ask someone at the table that night what it was who was Korean but even she did not know.  The delicious family secret I guess. Kimchi recipes can be very different too from one creator to the next.  Some Korean restaurants serve cucumber and radish.

    Active shooter on Fort Lee (none / 0) (#206)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:45:53 AM EST