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Thursday Open Thread

I'll be in court the rest of the day. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Why (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 12:20:04 PM EST
    did the sloth cross the road?

    Little guy must have felt like he jumped into hyper space

    lol!~ (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:09:23 PM EST
    I'd go nuts if I moved that slow! Looks like he might be doing the crawl of shame after a frat party :P

    Parent
    Unfortunately several sloths (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by fishcamp on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:33:12 PM EST
    do get hit by car while crossing the roads in Costa Rica.  I picked up a wounded one once and it took months to nurse him back to health.  We released him near a big tree by the house and he climbed away.  However the next day he was sitting by the back door waiting for his food.  

    Parent
    Good for you (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:38:58 PM EST
    I regularly do it with turtles. Really glad turtle courting season is over.

    Parent
    It's Tarantula mating season here :P (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:48:37 PM EST
    Bob McDonnell (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 12:24:55 PM EST
    testifying.

    Poor dear.

    Probably the one person in (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 12:26:57 PM EST
    America very pleased with the world events recently.

    Parent
    So poor he needed a loan from a certain someone. (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Angel on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 12:27:50 PM EST
    I knew my daughter wanted to pay for her (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 12:31:44 PM EST
    own wedding so I said, take the money.

    Parent
    Yeah, what could possibly be wrong with that? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Angel on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 12:34:35 PM EST
    Such paternal concern. (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 12:57:25 PM EST
    Daddy's Little Girl. :) Awww. (none / 0) (#14)
    by Angel on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 01:01:04 PM EST
    McDonnell's (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 12:32:13 PM EST
    defense seems to be "innocent by reason of insanity--his wife's."

    Parent
    "Throw Maureen Under the Bus" (none / 0) (#10)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 12:38:08 PM EST
    Which still doesn't answer the question:  If the marriage was in such shambles that they didn't communicate, and this couldn't conspire (as the defense alleges), why was she hitting JW up for money to do things that would make her husband look good and for expensive presents for her husband?

    If you were unhappy in a marriage, would you arrange to buy a $7K Rolex watch and get a Ferrari for your spouse to drive back from a vacation home?

    Parent

    A good commentary (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 12:52:00 PM EST
    No, it certainly isn't moral. (none / 0) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:16:12 PM EST
    But for purposes of answering the charges against them both, it sure is convenient.

    Parent
    Problem is (none / 0) (#26)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:20:04 PM EST
    How many jurors are going to actually believe a politician who's out to save his own skin?

    Parent
    That, I honestly don't know. (none / 0) (#49)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:12:17 PM EST
    But as kdog always likes to point out, it only takes one of them to produce a hung jury. Given also the fact that our political climate is as polarized as it is currently, what are the odds that you could have one or more jurors on the panel who are set adamantly upon acquittal, regardless of the evidence presented?

    Suffice to say that political corruption cases are almost never easy to prove in court, because there are often so many moving and disparate parts to the story. Former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich was probably convicted only because he was stupid enough to insist that he be allowed to testify on his own behalf during his second trial (the first having resulted in a hung jury), and he got nailed by prosecutors on cross-examination.

    One need only look to the notorious VECO scandal in Alaska, in which numerous state legislators were actually caught on videotape accepting bribes in exchange for an affirmative vote to approval a natural gas pipeline -- only to see their convictions later set aside, because prosecutors failed to disclose that one of their primary witnesses was under investigation as a suspected pedophile in an unrelated matter.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Man, that is ugly (none / 0) (#19)
    by sj on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:00:58 PM EST
    Orbital fracture and Gateway Pundit... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by magster on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 12:27:38 PM EST
    all the sources subsequent to Gateway Pundit are sourcing back to Gateway Pundit. No one has confirmed GP's scoop.

    GP author Jim Hoft is a fraud.

    What kills me is.. (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 01:01:23 PM EST
    even if it was the biggest baddest shiner in the history of shiners, that's still not justification for deadly force...not in my book.  

    No reason to "fear for your life"...fear for your pride, maybe, but not your life.  And I would hope police are trained to take a punch without resorting to shooting...but judging by the news outta Ferguson I'm left to wonder if the cops out there get any training at all.

    Parent

    I once received a serious black eye ... (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:49:51 PM EST
    ... when I was ten years old, because I had the misfortune to stand behind a bedroom door while facing it, and my older sister suddenly flung it open without first wondering if someone was on the other side.

    As part of their findings from their independent autopsy of the late Michael Brown, Dr. Michael Baden and Prof. Shawn Parcells both concluded that the deceased showed no physical injuries or contusions consistent with a bodily struggle with another person, and that "[t]he only wounds apart from the bullet wounds were abrasions on Brown's face, attributed to him falling down after the shots to his head."

    And one purported witness noted that Officer Darren Wilson tried to quickly fling open the driver's side door of his police vehicle, but he had moved so close to Brown and Dorian Johnson that the door just as quickly shut again on him.

    Now, I'm not stating as fact that Wilson was hit in the face by his own car door, because as I've noted repeatedly over the last few days, I really don't know what happened that day because we've actually yet to determine what the true facts of the matter really are in this case.

    I'm only suggesting that there could be other potential explanations as to how Wilson received a shiner during the confrontation, and that it may not necessarily have been the result of a punch or flung elbow from Brown.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Assume we have all seen this (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:57:26 PM EST
    cop being sued over beating is now a Ferguson city council woman

    After an arrest the cop gave the guy a beating that resulted in a concussion and facial lacerations and the prosecutor charged him with destruction of property for bleeding on the uniform.

    Parent

    I wonder if she had anything to do with the (none / 0) (#104)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:35:10 AM EST
    That's the guy (none / 0) (#133)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:53:07 AM EST
    The officer being sued for that is now on the city council.

    Parent
    If they did fight for the gun, (none / 0) (#20)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:04:24 PM EST
    that takes the incident to a whole other level.

    Parent
    Legally, for sure... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:15:15 PM EST
    morally, I don't know...it would depend if Brown ever got possession of the weapon, by my moral compass.  What could be interpreted as "trying to grab my gun" might be just the bodily contact that comes with a scuffle.  

    I know that's asking a lot of cops, but with great power must come great responsibility and restraint.  Bottom line, if ya can't take one to the kisser and turn the other cheek and make an arrest, ya can't be a cop.

    Parent

    Does it though? (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by magster on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:24:23 PM EST
    Because every actual first hand witness says Brown was fleeing. Just because it might have been justified in the car 10 seconds prior does not mean that the license to kill doesn't end when the threat is ended and the threat is fleeing or surrendering.


    Parent
    In theory... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:31:54 PM EST
    I would think no...he didn't get the gun and is no immediate threat to get the gun.  No justification for deadly force.

    But in practice, if the jury believes Brown went for the gun, Wilson walks.  An accused cop is always gonna get more benefit of the doubt than a civilian in our courts.  There is no true equality under the law...it's one of our greatest myths. All imo, of course.

    Parent

    Was he fleeing when he was shot? (none / 0) (#36)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:33:51 PM EST
    Or was he coming back at Wilson?

    Rhetorical question.

    Parent

    The witness interviewed by Anderson (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:52:06 PM EST
    Cooper says that he had seen Brown running away, and at the point where Brown has turned around, the witness says Brown was bent over, with his arms cradling his midsection, and appears to be heading down to the ground.  This is when the witness reports hearing more shots fired.

    Here's the link to the video of that interview.

    Parent

    Really was a rhetorical question. (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:59:26 PM EST
    Nice try. I do wonder why there are no (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:14:15 PM EST
    Entry wounds on the back of Mr. Wilson's body.  Was he fleeing by running backwards?

    Parent
    Shots may have missed. Cop had a busted eye . . . (none / 0) (#72)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:21:33 PM EST
    And Brown may have flinched at the sound 'like he was shot in the back'.

    We do not know how many shots were fired afaik. Actually, it seems some key pieces of info could be put out there, if they exist, that would help the situation. The x-ray from the hospital, number of bullets fired, pic of damage to cops face etc.

    Parent

    Unless "someone" leks this info, we may (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:33:36 PM EST
    never know as evidence presented to the grand jury is confidential and there may never be a trial even if Officer Wilson is indicted.

    Parent
    Baden's assistant (none / 0) (#105)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:50:33 AM EST
    said on O'Donnell's show that the wounds to the arms could have occurred as Brown was fleeing. The arm movement has the arms in various positions as Brown was running.

    Wounds to the hands and arms included grazing shots.

    Parent

    At this point, we just don't know. (none / 0) (#44)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 03:03:17 PM EST
    Michael Brady, a purported eyewitness who was interviewed only yesterday by CNN's Anderson Cooper, claimed that Michael Brown had tried to flee, and had turned around toward Officer Wilson after being first hit by gunfire, and was falling to his knees in pain while Wilson kept firing.

    This case is quickly turning into a modern-day equivalent of Rashomon.

    Parent

    Hence "rhetorical question." (none / 0) (#46)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 03:05:34 PM EST
    Unfortunately the way the laws on justifiable (none / 0) (#132)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:50:50 AM EST
    police force are written, the 'license to kill' extends to killing the suspect while he is fleeing if the officer thinks there is still a threat. That is why the charges are so hard to prove - you have an officer telling a grand jury or other investigative body that he felt the guy he shot was a threat to the community. Hard to prove the negative.

    Parent
    I was listening to a guy (none / 0) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:55:46 AM EST
    Explain this yesterday with my mouth hanging open.  I will try to find that video.   He cites the court cases that establish what could reasonably be called a license to kill.

    Parent
    Or, more logically, (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by NYShooter on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:32:46 PM EST
     "trying to grab my gun" might just be Brown, seeing a crazed, out-of-control cop pointing a loaded gun at him at point blank range, and, him just trying to push the muzzle away from his, about to be vaporized, guts.

    Parent
    Of course... (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:46:47 PM EST
    all badges aside, from what we think we know Brown had a most valid self-defense claim against Wilson...but our laws don't work that way, we're just supposed to take it from a badge and file a complaint/lawsuit later.  If we escape alive, that is.

    Parent
    What we think we know?? (none / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:02:54 PM EST
    Well, I am not sure if we know what we think we know.

    The autopsy said he was shot from the front.

    Witness says a 6'4" man was bum rushing the officer.

    Parent

    No one is unsure (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:05:28 PM EST
    That you do not know what you think you know.

    Parent
    Hahahahaha! (none / 0) (#68)
    by Angel on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:16:43 PM EST
    The autopsy said (none / 0) (#112)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:08:25 AM EST
    he was shot from the front.

    as that diagram faces front -- sure -- but no one actually stands like that.

    When a person stands the "front" of his forearms actually face backwards which means that the shot in the front of the forearm may have come from the back as he was running away or with his hands up forearms facing forward.

    The other wound that could have gone either way is the grazing wound on the inside of the upper arm.  Grazing wounds are never definitive by MEs and always debatable by them.

    Witness says a 6'4" man was bum rushing the officer.

    Do we have a name for that witness? a statement to the police from that witness?

    Let's face it  -- there is no witness to that.

    But we do have 4 witnesses to the fact that that did not happen -- real live people with names. addresses, and official statements given to the police.

    Parent

    Well, in the infamous cell phone video (none / 0) (#115)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:19:25 AM EST
    the eye witness says Brown was coming at Wilson and that the eye witness thought Wilson was missing Brown with his shots, apparently because Brown kept coming despite the shots.

    Parent
    the eye witness says Brown was coming at Wilson (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:54:51 AM EST
    Please post the words from that video that say that --

    I've listened to that video a dozen times and he doesn't say who is coming at whom.

    But the 4 named witnesses together with the 9+ shell casings scattered over 35 feet from the vehicle to the body say that the officer was the one coming at Brown.

    And those shell casings don't lie.

    Parent

    kept coming towards the police (none / 0) (#141)
    by CityLife on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:04:18 AM EST
    Those are the words from that video that say that. "Then the dude started running - kept coming towards the police." Are you arguing that it is possible that he was saying officer Wilson kept coming towards the police?
    BTW, CNN used my translation from my video linked above and not the translation from conservative tree house but didn't credit me.

    Parent
    You seem to have info that the rest of us don't have, would you please advise us of your source(s) for your contention that:
    4 named witnesses together with the 9+ shell casings scattered over 35 feet from the vehicle to the body say that the officer was the one coming at Brown.


    Parent
    Shell casings (none / 0) (#156)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 11:05:45 AM EST
    There are 4 named witnesses who say that the officer was coming at Brown -- those names are all over the news.

    On the first day of the investigation the Chief of Police said that there was brass scattered from the SUV to the body -- but he didn't know whose brass.

    The next day he told the press that all that all that brass came from the police officer's weapon.

    Rumor was that it was 8+ shells and Rumor in that case was right.

    Rumor is also saying that it was actually 12 shells but nothing on that yet.

    Parent

    and the "4 named witnesses who say that the officer was coming at Brown" are "all over the news."

    You've convinced me. Though I'm not sure what you've convince me of.

    Here's the thing, I have no doubt that Wilson might have/probably missed with some shots, such that there will be more than 6 casings. I have no doubt that he probably pursued Brown, at least initially. While I'm sure cops are generally taught to come to a stop while actively shooting in order to increase accuracy, it is not a stretch to believe Wilson may have stepped toward Brown during any pause(s) in his shooting, if he did pause.

    However none of that means Brown did not come at Wilson.

    Parent

    Casings (none / 0) (#162)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 11:45:45 AM EST
    OK, so the (9+?, 8+?, 12?) casings are rumors

    After the Autopsies the "8+ casings" ceased to be rumors.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:41:51 AM EST
    If stumbling can be called "coming"

    See comment #39

    Parent

    Well, Brown can't tell us what (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:31:57 PM EST
    actually happened, or what he was thinking or feeling at the time, but Wilson's actions relative to 2 young men walking in the middle of the road seem grossly out of proportion and overly confrontational.  Slamming on the brakes, throwing the car into reverse and coming to a stop close to hitting these guys seems overly violent.

    And then, Wilson allegedly throws the door open, hits Brown with it, and Brown shoves the door and the cop attached to it back toward the vehicle.  Is that when Wilson takes a knock to the head?

    What do you do if a 6' 6" cop grabs you and pulls your head through the open window of his vehicle after almost hitting you with his car, because you didn't immediately hightail it over to the sidewalk as you had just been ordered to do?  

    It just seems to me that Wilson was pi$$ed.  And he was going to show those boys who was in charge.  Kinda like Officer Go-Fk-Yourself from the protests, having a jolly ol' time randomly pointing his rifle in the faces of people for no apparent reason.

    I haven't seen anything, throughout this entire sh!tshow, that suggests the Ferguson police are much more than goons used to having their way with the community.  

    Parent

    Officer Go-Fk-Yourself (none / 0) (#41)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:57:41 PM EST
    who was, justifiably, relieved of duty yesterday due to that recorded incident, was on the St. Ann PD, not the FPD.

    I think pretty much every PD has a-hole cops. I know first hand that several of the LA County Sheriffs who fall into that category...

    Parent

    LOL! That's for sure. (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 03:54:04 PM EST
    I had guns drawn on me by two L.A. County Sheriff's deputies one evening in October 1994 in the driveway of my grandparents' home in Pasadena, right after I had just arrived there from my mother's place. I just threw my hands in the air, and was then roughly apprehended and handcuffed, and flung against my mother's car.

    My grandfather, who had watched the whole episode unfold from the window of the kitchen, came storming outside and was visibly upset, yelling at the officers, "What the hell are you doing to my grandson! Let him go!" -- which really didn't help matters any, because they rudely told him to shut up and back off. Then my grandmother came outside, equally upset. (I'll note that my grandfather was 94 at the time, and my grandmother was 92.)

    I remained in handcuffs for at least five minutes, maybe more, while they called in the arrest, only to subsequently discover that in fact they had made a terrible mistake. It seems there had been a report of a stolen vehicle in the east Pasadena area near St. Luke Medical Center, which is near where we were -- but as it turned out, they had misread the license plate of my mother's car, off by one letter. Further, the car they were looking for was a white Ford, while my mother's was a grey Nissan.

    They quickly released me, apologizing profusely to us for their sloppy error. I remember just staring at them and saying absolutely nothing in response, and I was trying very hard not to throw up in front of everyone. But my grandparents were having none of it. My grandfather cussed at both deputies, and grandmother looked at them point blank and said in a cold, matter of fact manner, "Had he been colored, you'd have probably shot him. Now, please leave."

    That wasn't the end of it. My grandfather called the Sheriff's Dept. the next morning  and demanded to talk to Sheriff Sherman Block himself, to complain about the deputies' behavior and demand an apology for what they put us through. To my surprise, Block called him back and apologized, and said that the deputies would each receive a written reprimand for what happened.

    All I can say is that it's the most surreal feeling, to be staring at the business end of a drawn police firearm. It still sends a shudder down my spine to even recall the incident, which was almost 20 years ago, but obviously remains fresh in my memory bank. I don't like talking about it, but your mention of the L.A. Sheriff's Dept. brought it all quickly back.

    And I still wonder about what my grandmother said to those deputies that night. How much more likely was it that I'd have ended up a tragic statistic, had we been black folks from the poorer northwest side of Pasadena, rather than white folks in the more affluent Hastings Ranch community?

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I've also been introduced to the (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:09:36 PM EST
    business end of a couple LAPD firearms. Passenger in a car with the taillight out in West Hollywood. Asked for our ID's after telling us to get out of the car. Silly me for reaching for my purse . . .

    Parent
    Then you know exactly what I mean. (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:41:44 PM EST
    It's a sickening feeling. One overreaction on their part for whatever their reason, and it's potentially light's out for eternity.

    The story to which I linked above, the Kendric McDade shooting in Pasadena, was in many ways even more tragic than the current situation in Ferguson, because McDade was killed as the direct result of a false report having been called in by someone about an allegedly stolen backpack and laptop. The cops drew their weapons on the 19-year-old, and as he panicked, turned and ran down the street, they opened fire and killed him. No stolen items were ever found in his possession, nor were any on his friend, who had been with him at the time and was arrested.

    Turns out that afterward, there was no stolen backpack and laptop after all. The guy who called in the false report had instead misplaced it, and had filed a police report describing McDade and his friend to the police, and further reported the teens as armed so that they'd respond faster. McDade and his friend had simply had the misfortune of walking by this clown, at the same time the report was being phoned in by him to the police.

    Well, that Bozo was charged with filing a false report, to which he pleaded guilty and was later deported. Meanwhile, McDade's parents and grandparents had to bury their boy because of it, and no charges were filed against the officers who killed him. That's somewhat understandable in, given that they had clearly been misled by the guy who filed the false report. But they were still a little too quick on the draw, in my opinion.

    The City of Pasadena is now rightly on the hook in a wrongful death suit, and this will probably result in a multi-million dollar payout, I'm sure.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Yup. I also learned how un-cop savvy I was :/ (none / 0) (#62)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:59:31 PM EST
    It was def an overreaction on the cops part though. After the sheer terror/fear went away, I was quite angry for hours afterward. It was totally uncalled for. Like you, we were also right by home. Just pulling up to our drive . . .

    Parent
    ya know, and this is gonna be OT, (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:30:08 PM EST
    for the umpteenth time, a story of yours is great and all, and then you throw in a scene that sounds like Aticus Finch said it or Rob Reiner wrote it, and the story loses all it's credibility.

    To me, anyway.

    and grandmother looked at them point blank and said in a cold, matter of fact manner, "Had he been colored, you'd have probably shot him. Now, please leave."

    Astounding and literally incredible and unbelievably perfect for the discussion we're now having.

    Another example is some story you told recently about waiting tables, and your co-worker who told off a customer in dialogue straight out of a Hollywood movie, and, like "An Officer and a Gentleman," you end the story by her getting a standing ovation from the other diners.

    It seems unlikely to me that one person can have so many perfect movie scenes happen to them in one lifetime.

    Hey, I'm sure it's probably me, I'm sure I'm a terrible person...

    Parent

    WTF is wrong with you? (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:42:51 PM EST
    Pi$$ off.

    Parent
    That was an odd comment (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:20:37 PM EST
    I'm a terrible person, (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:22:56 PM EST
    my BS meter is too sensitive.

    Parent
    Jealousy can be ugly (none / 0) (#106)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:54:27 AM EST
    and cause strange results.

    Parent
    The other part of this story (none / 0) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:18:29 PM EST
    Slamming on the brakes, throwing the car into reverse and coming to a stop close to hitting these guys seems overly violent.
    And then, Wilson allegedly throws the door open, hits Brown with it, and Brown shoves the door and the cop attached to it back toward the vehicle.  Is that when Wilson takes a knock to the head

    had a fence next to the car...

    Of course there isn't a fence.

    'Nuf said.

    Parent

    "And then, (none / 0) (#77)
    by NYShooter on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:59:34 PM EST
     Wilson allegedly throws the door open, hits Brown with it, and Brown shoves the door and the cop attached to it back toward the vehicle."

    From my comment the other day, which I believe explains a lot, "Wilson throws the door open," and, does it so hard that it "springs" back and hits him in the face.

    Now, most people can understand that when you're so pi$$ed off that you do something that stupid & violent, and, it backfires on you, and, ends up being a self-inflicted, rage induced, smack-in-the-face, his "rage-o-meter" must've gone through the roof.

    (I will try to find the source of this version that was told to me, and, post the link)

    Parent

    of yours regarding a "Starsky and Hutch" type driving move by Wilson.

    Well today I saw an interview with Brown's friend who was with him during the shooting, and the friend describes such a move, so I apologize to you.

    Parent

    Aw, shucks (none / 0) (#84)
    by NYShooter on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 10:11:21 PM EST
    turning red, looking down, feet shuffling,
    Tanks.

    Parent
    Ask him to explain the fence that was (none / 0) (#85)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 10:21:15 PM EST
    not there...

    Parent
    Well, now, there definitely is that. (none / 0) (#91)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 11:46:21 PM EST
    No fences anywhere.

    Parent
    So he only made up part of it (none / 0) (#93)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 06:30:21 AM EST
    let's just keep speculating (none / 0) (#94)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 06:34:15 AM EST
    in lieu of knowing what the facts are in the case.

    Parent
    The description by (none / 0) (#114)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:13:40 AM EST
    NYshooter's source included a fence.

    There is no fence.

    So the fact that the description is incorrect is not speculation.

    Parent

    But you believe the unsourced (none / 0) (#127)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:47:17 AM EST
    witnesses in the Blaze article.

    OK.

    Parent

    I tell you (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 01:09:11 PM EST
    some of these right wingers are masters at fleecing the rubes. It's an easy game though. Just tell them what they want to hear and they'll empty their pockets.

    Parent
    He has a long history. (none / 0) (#6)
    by magster on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 12:30:14 PM EST
    and a Kos article highlighting the shoddy.... (none / 0) (#11)
    by magster on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 12:43:48 PM EST
    Wash Post now getting their own sources.... (none / 0) (#18)
    by magster on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 01:42:25 PM EST
    on orbital fracture. Still double hearsay, but WP is a wee-bit more reputable than Gateway Pundit.

    If I have to admit ragebot is right, I'm jumping off the nearest cliff.

    Parent

    If it's true (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:06:06 PM EST
    it would seem to make his claim that Brown was 'coming at him' less certain, imo. Just smacking your eye hard enough to get a black eye sans fracture can eff up your vision. And then he starts firing . . .

    Parent
    IF it's true (2.00 / 1) (#27)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:22:45 PM EST
    How much would be instinct and training kicking in at that point?  If you were beaten and had such an eye injury, and then you think a 6'4, allmost 300+ pound man whom you possibly suspect of being on drugs (ergo, not thinking properly) is bumrushing you, what do you think your first instinct is going to be?

    Parent
    No non-double-hearsay witness.... (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by magster on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:27:17 PM EST
    corroborates the bum-rushing allegation.

    If Brown was fleeing and Wilson was firing his gun, then Wilson is breaking the law at that point.

    Parent

    Hence "IF" (none / 0) (#35)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:33:18 PM EST
    This first-hand eyewitness says Brown doubled-back (none / 0) (#92)
    by fairleft on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 04:55:18 AM EST
    #2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran - the police got out and ran after him
    {crosstalk}

    #2 Then the next thing I know he doubled back toward him cus - the police had his gun drawn already on him -

    [there is dispute here whether he says "doubled back" or "coming back."]

    #1. Oh, the police got his gun

    #2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I'm thinking the police kept missing - he like - be like - but he kept coming toward him

    http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-fer guson-shooting/

    Parent

    This first-hand eyewitness says Brown doubled-back (none / 0) (#119)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:30:29 AM EST
    Meaning just what???

    That he turned around and put his hands up

    Or that he had to run in one direction to get around the SUV and then doubled back in the other direction after getting around the vehicle to head down the street.

    How do you double back and yet wind up 35 feet from the police SUV out in the middle of the street where there is nowhere to hide????

    #2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I'm thinking the police kept missing - he like - be like - but he kept coming toward him

    Who kept coming at who??? He never says does he?? But the other 4 named witnesses do say unequivocably that the officer was the one coming at him.

    And so do all the shell casings scattered from the vehicle to the body 35 feet away and those shell casings don't lie.

    Parent

    See linking discussion in this thread (none / 0) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:49:59 AM EST
    I think it is a stretch to say (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:55:50 PM EST
    "beaten". Want to try again? And perhaps you can add in the size of the cop with the gun . . .

    Parent
    Not sure what the cop's size (none / 0) (#102)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:32:48 AM EST
    has anything to do with anything as the initial incident allegedly took place while he was in a sitting position in a vehicle.

    You ever been confronted by a very large person up close and personal while you were sitting down?

    Parent

    Not sure what the cop's size (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:48:54 AM EST
    It has everything to do with it.

    The cop is 6'6" and probably Brown's same weight though distributed differently.

    He's also a hockey player and thus used to cross-checking and being physical.

    I'll bet he is used to others being intimidated by his size alone.

    Only in this case Brown was not intimidated by his size.

    Parent

    Vulnerable Position (none / 0) (#140)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:03:14 AM EST
    Not sure what the cop's size has anything to do with anything as the initial incident allegedly took place while he was in a sitting position in a vehicle.
    You ever been confronted by a very large person up close and personal while you were sitting down?

    In your attempt to bend over backwards to defend the poor victim policeman with imagined scenarios, you seem to have missed an obvious point.

    Since everyone knows that sitting down (in a car?) puts you in a very vulnerable position when a large (black) person is confronting you.

    Why did the victim policeman put himself in such a vulnerable position?  

    Was he trying to get beaten up?


    Parent

    I think the notion of vulnerability (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 11:50:45 AM EST
    changes when you consider that the vehicle in question was an SUV, in which case Brown and Wilson were likely at the same level, face to face.  Which also makes it easier to believe that Wilson could easily have grabbed at Brown's neck from inside the SUV, and that in whatever tussle there was that involved the officer's gun, Brown wasn't at any particular advantage.

    I just don't understand the choices Wilson made; they make so sense to me.  Why would a police officer - without knowing whether either of the 2 men was armed - have deliberately put the confrontation in even closer quarters?  It just seems stupid and dangerous to me.

    I just haven't found anything the cop did to have been focused on the non-violent resolution of the crime of walking in the road.

    Parent

    Yes - this is the point (5.00 / 3) (#168)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 12:57:35 PM EST
    I just haven't found anything the cop did to have been focused on the non-violent resolution of the crime of walking in the road.

    That type of over-reaction and harassment is at the root of so many of these incidents, and so many more that never rise to this level, but still have a terrible effect on people's lives.

    Don't know if anyone heard NPR this morning, but a black man in Ferguson told about standing in front of his own residence with his young son, and being thrown on the hood of a squad car because he refused to show the police ID when asked. It just has got to stop.

    Parent

    Darlin', I weigh 105lbs. (none / 0) (#157)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 11:19:45 AM EST
    You really don't want to know if I've ever been confronted by "a very large person" . . .   :)

    Parent
    ::sigh:: (none / 0) (#159)
    by sj on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 11:26:37 AM EST
    I wish I weighed 105 lbs.

    Okay, back to the regularly scheduled discussion.


    Parent

    If those were Wilson's instincts and (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 03:04:50 PM EST
    the result of his training, he should never have been a police officer and there needs to be some serious investigation into the Ferguson PD (I think that investigation is inevitable, at this point, because there is too much indication that how Wilson acted was SOP).

    Much is made of Brown's size - but Wilson was taller, so we're not talking about Barney Fife v. The Hulk.  

    If Wilson was that severely injured, he had no business using a weapon after his alleged assailant had fled the immediate area.  "Training" would suggest calling for assistance with a full description and requesting medical attention.  Maybe Wilson was absent that day.

    Parent

    Have you ever gotten a black eye? (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by sj on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:23:45 PM EST
    IF it's true (2.00 / 1) (#27)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 01:22:45 PM MDT

    How much would be instinct and training kicking in at that point?  If you were beaten and had such an eye injury, and then you think a 6'4, allmost 300+ pound man whom you possibly suspect of being on drugs (ergo, not thinking properly) is bumrushing you, what do you think your first instinct is going to be?

    I don't think, I know that your hands go straight to protect your eye.

    I believe the shock would have you at best stumbling along covering your eye with one hand. If you are determined to wave a gun around, Barney Fife would look graceful in comparison.

    Since you are soliciting opinions, that's what I think.

    Parent

    Have you ever gotten a black eye (1.00 / 2) (#66)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:12:09 PM EST
    from a man who has just tried to take your weapon, run away and then turn and come back???

    Parent
    We don't know that Brown was trying (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 07:37:47 PM EST
    To take the weapon; for all you know, Brown saw the officer going for his weapon and was trying to keep the cop from shooting him.

    If someone started shooting at you, possibly hitting you, and you had no weapon, are you suggesting you would not have tried to put distance between yourself and the cop with the gun?

    There is an interview of a witness who says that Brown turned toward the cop, had his arms cradling his midsection, and was crumpling to the ground and that's when the cop took 3 or 4 more shots.

    But your mind is made up, so there's a couple minutes I'll never get back...

    Parent

    I am saying that shortly before (none / 0) (#87)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 10:26:59 PM EST
    Brown and Wilson came together that Brown robbed a convenience store and when confronted by the owner or clerk turned around and grabbed him.

    That's on tape.

    His aggression is on display.

    Parent

    Store clerk... (3.00 / 2) (#100)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:02:12 AM EST
    got physical first.  Whether a shoplifting even occurred is in dispute.  Definitely no "robbery", maybe a simple case of shopping while black?

    Parent
    So robbing convenience stores is okay?? (none / 0) (#118)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:30:13 AM EST
    Of course not... (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:54:58 AM EST
    A) We don't know for certain if blunts were taken.  

    B) It has nothing to do with the killing.

    Parent

    His friend's lawyer said it was (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 12:09:07 PM EST
    I don't know... (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:04:41 PM EST
    what kind of pressure the friend was under while being questioned by the same police dept. that just shot his unarmed friend full of holes.  That coupled with the ambiguity of the dueling convenience store videos, I still presume innocence of any shoplifting.

    Parent
    If the blunts were any part of Wilson's (1.00 / 0) (#165)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 12:11:56 PM EST
    decision-making process, it had plenty to do with the killing.

    Parent
    Wilson's toxicology... (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 12:58:56 PM EST
    has yet to be released.  Or did you mean Brown's?  

    Besides, aren't officers supposed to be trained and experienced in dealing with people having drug or alcohol freak-outs and finding non-violent resolutions?  Not that I have any reason to believe Brown couldn't handle his high, if he was high.  

    Parent

    I don't think I was clear. (none / 0) (#188)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:32:21 PM EST
    If Wilson reacted to Brown in whole or in part due to the cigars in Brown's hand, then they did have plenty to do with the killing.

    Parent
    Gotcha... (none / 0) (#197)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:49:28 PM EST
    if Wilson knew about the alleged 911 call from a concerned shopper.  His boss says he didn't, but I guess that don't mean much....Ferguson PD doesn't appear to know their a$$holes from their elbows.

    Parent
    Seems to me that if, after ordering (none / 0) (#204)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 02:05:41 PM EST
    Brown and Johnson to the sidewalk, Wilson hears about the theft of the cigarillos, and sees a package of tobacco products in Brown's hand, what he does next simply defies logic and reason.  If anything, there would be more unknowns that had the potential to be extremely dangerous, calling for more caution and calm.

    And Wilson did exactly the opposite with, ultimately, fatal results.

    I don't know what we have come to that we live - or at least the people of Ferguson live - in a world where the possibility that someone stole tobacco products calls for the kind of reaction that ends up with someone dead on the street.

    If you can stand some Charlie Pierce, this just makes me want to cry:

    I keep coming back to what seems to me to be the most inhumane thing of all, the inhumane thing that happened before the rage began to rise, and before the backlash began to build, and before the cameras and television lights, and before the tear gas and the stun grenades and the chants and the prayers. I keep coming back to the one image that was there before the international event began, before it became a television show and a symbol in flames and something beyond what it was in the first place. I keep coming back to one simple moment, one ghastly fact. One image, from which all the other images have flowed.

    They left the body in the street.

    Dictators leave bodies in the street.

    Petty local satraps leave bodies in the street.

    Warlords leave bodies in the street.

    A police officer shot Michael Brown to death. And they left his body in the street. For four hours. Bodies do not lie in the street for four hours. Not in an advanced society. Bodies lie in the street for four hours in small countries where they have perpetual civil war. Bodies lie in the street for four hours on back roads where people fight over the bare necessities of simple living, where they fight over food and water and small, useless parcels of land. Bodies lie in the street for four hours in places in which poor people fight as proxies for rich people in distant places, where they fight as proxies for the men who dig out the diamonds, or who drill out the oil, or who set ancient tribal grudges aflame for modern imperial purposes that are as far from the original grudges as bullets are from bows. Those are the places where they leave bodies in the street, as object lessons, or to make a point, or because there isn't the money to take the bodies away and bury them, or because nobody gives a damn whether they are there or not. Those are the places where they leave bodies in the street.



    Parent
    Shooting people who are suspected of shoplifting (none / 0) (#120)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:32:25 AM EST
    isn't right, either.

    Parent
    How does (none / 0) (#75)
    by sj on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:42:42 PM EST
    that change a d@mn thing in what the body does?


    Parent
    People charged up with (none / 0) (#86)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 10:24:10 PM EST
    adrenalin and in a fight don't stop and worry over an injury.

    Parent
    He Should Not Have A Gun (none / 0) (#88)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 10:29:06 PM EST
    People charged up with adrenalin and in a fight don't stop and worry over an injury.

    If he lacks the training to stop himself from getting into a fight, he should not be carrying a gun or a badge.

    Parent

    Oh please, squeaky (none / 0) (#95)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 06:34:35 AM EST
    There is no training that can overcome the adrenalin rush that happens if someone is directly attacked.

    Parent
    Sorry, but that's exactly what (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 06:39:15 AM EST
    the training is suppose to do, to encourage and develop habits that will overcome the instinctive reaction of 'fight or flight' syndrome.

    An 'adrenaline rush' doesn't explain why he shot the kid when he was running away.  It doesn't explain why the cop didn't file an incident report until the 19th, as well.

    Parent

    He wasn't running away (none / 0) (#107)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:55:50 AM EST
    "Michael and his friend turn around. And Michael taunts him... And then all the sudden he just started bumrushing him. He just started coming at him full speed. And, so he just started shooting. And, he just kept coming. And, so he really thinks he was on something," the caller added. "The final shot was in the forehead, and then he fell about two or three feet in front of the officer."

    Report: More Than a Dozen Witnesses Have Corroborated Officer Darren Wilson's Version of Ferguson Shooting"

    An adrenalin rush is not exclusive to the "fight or flight" syndrome.

    Policemen are trained to arrest people they think have broken the law. When Brown attacked him and/or ran away that signaled Wilson that Brown had committed a crime. And in fact, Brown had just robbed a convenience store and attacked the owner. (This is shown via video tape and is not conjecture.)

    So, even though he had suffered a fracture and damage to his eye he yelled at Brown, who had been running away, to stop or freeze. Brown then turned and "bumrushed" Wilson. Wilson, thinking he was in danger of his life, started shooting.

    None of this needed to happen. The cause?

    1. Brown robbed a store.

    2. Brown attacked a policeman.

    3. When trying to escape Brown turned and reattached a policeman.

    Wilson's actions are totally justified.

    Parent
    Brown - and Johnson - ran from the vehicle, (5.00 / 4) (#116)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:23:08 AM EST
    away from Wilson, who went after Brown in pursuit; he was reportedly firing his weapon at the time, apparently without regard to who might be in the area.  He didn't "start" shooting when Brown stopped running, he continued to shoot.  Was Wilson in fear for his life when Brown was running away?

    Why was any of this necessary, jim?  Was it smart policing?

    Wilson didn't know about the alleged robbery when he stopped Brown and Johnson - and even if he did, his approach to these young men did not seem designed to keep things calm - just the opposite.

    Brown and Johnson weren't running down the road when Wilson stopped and barked at them to get on the sidewalk - they were walking.  Wilson claims the two were "blocking traffic," but no one has mentioned any traffic problems, no cars that couldn't get down the road, etc.

    Wilson's little NASCAR spin move backfired on him when he didn't have enough room to open his door, and instead hit Brown with it and got pushed back into his vehicle.  Why did Wilson even need to do that, jim?  What was the point?  I'll tell you: intimidation and bullying.

    And Wilson reacted out of anger, and it all went downhill from there, fast.

    Why would a young man who wasn't armed, who had already been reportedly shot, and knew he was being fired upon, "bumrush" the cop who was shooting at him - who had reportedly already shot him from inside the police SUV?  There's at least one witness account that when Brown stopped running, and turned toward the officer, he took a couple steps as he appeared bent over and headed to the ground.  How many steps would you take after being shot more than once?

    Here's the thing with you, jim: if the cop had been black,  and Brown and Johnson had been white, you'd be making your "facts" fit in an entirely different way.

    Sheesh.

    Parent

    Anne (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:43:33 AM EST
    I'm glad you have the patients to respond to this nonsense.  It needs to be responded to and if I did it the comments would be deleted.

    Parent
    The Blaze (none / 0) (#122)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:37:08 AM EST
    that's a hive of wretched scum and villany if there ever was one.

    Parent
    Report of more than a dozen witnesses (none / 0) (#196)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:49:07 PM EST
    Report: More Than a Dozen Witnesses Have Corroborated Officer Darren Wilson's Version of Ferguson Shooting"

    You can't be serious --

    Darren Wilson has no version -- he has given no statement and the department has filed no incident report as is required by law.

    And do any of these alleged 12 witnesses corroborating a non-existent version have names???

    I didn't think so -- just more anonymous blabber that has no basis in fact.

    Instead of an incident report we get the anonymous Josie and alleged friend in shadow and a report from a blogger that has proven to be pure BS.

    What this is really evidence of is desperation on the part of the PD to try to find something that will stick -- thus far without success.

    It's been 14 days and the public should have an official statement from someone in government.

    But there is nothing from them except an amorphous story of a struggle for the gun in the front seat of the SUV that at this point is highly debatable.

    Parent

    Reporter who tweeted it.... (none / 0) (#201)
    by magster on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:53:11 PM EST
    had to pull it back and say her tweet didn't meet the standards of her newspaper employer.

    Parent
    BS (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 07:44:01 AM EST
    That is simply not true.

    Parent
    You know this from personal experience? (none / 0) (#103)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:33:30 AM EST
    Or just making stuff up as usual?

    Parent
    Wait - you're actually trying to argue (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:01:42 AM EST
    that police officers aren't trained/educated in ways designed to teach them how to reduce the possibility that in a crisis-type situation, they are not overtaken by emotion and adrenaline?

    You actually need proof of that?  Wow.  Really?

    I think it would be reasonable to question whether the Ferguson police are adequately trained in that regard - well, you probably wouldn't question that, but I think many of us would - or whether they are adequately screening applicants to weed out those whose temperments and attitudes make conflict escalation more likely, but the training itself isn't just designed to keep the citizenry alive, it's designed to keep cops alive.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#109)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:57:09 AM EST
    Personal experience through training.

    Parent
    pffffttt (none / 0) (#90)
    by sj on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 10:43:26 PM EST
    So that's your opinion. Big deal. It's just an opinion.

    Parent
    Call for Backup? (4.33 / 3) (#30)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:28:02 PM EST
    Run like hell... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:58:16 PM EST
    or if you're in a stand your ground mood, the ol' side-step and toss to the ground move, using the attacker's force against them.  It's a basin self-defense maneuver that served me well back in my younger flag football days.  When a 250 pound O-lineman was leading the power sweep towards my 150 lb arse at cornerback with visions of the pancake in their eyes, the side-step and throw down worked like a charm.

    Parent
    And you did this (1.00 / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:09:50 PM EST
    in a none contact scene in which you had just received a blow that fractured your eye socket.

    Come on, kdog. I know your past and understand but you're going over the top.

    Parent

    Your lucky, K-Dog (none / 0) (#110)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:57:54 AM EST
    The idea is to hit the ground and make the big guy fall down, so he can't get others....

    Parent
    Yes... (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:10:36 AM EST
    technically you're supposed to "eat the block" so somebody else can make the tackle...but f&ck that I had to go to work the next day! ;)

    Parent
    If it is true.... (none / 0) (#23)
    by magster on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:13:56 PM EST
    One thing that is incriminating to Wilson is that the first "reporter" he or his friends seek to divulge this information to is the overtly racist Gateway Pundit. The commenters on that site are right out of the Reconstruction south "animals" "thug" "gorilla" just to name a few of the comments I saw within literally 30 seconds of perusing that site. Why is a cop (or his friends) associated with this site?

    Parent
    GP (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:46:50 PM EST
    Is rather famously the toast of the lunatic fringe.   Has been for a long tome.

    Parent
    Pity the protesters in STL (5.00 / 4) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:13:10 PM EST
    It is so miserably hot here.  I open the door and the huskies look at me like, 'really?  Couldn't we just poop in here?'

    That cracked me up! (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by sj on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:31:11 PM EST
    My dog is the same way with rain. We sometimes have to verify that it really is raining in both the front and back yards. Then proceed to get completely drenched as she looks for a non-existent dry spot to do her business.

    Parent
    Ha (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:36:46 PM EST
    Glad it has so far not occurred to my dogs that it might not be hot in the front yard.

    Daisy is the same.  Hates getting her feet wet.

    Parent

    One of the things I really loved about Dot (none / 0) (#58)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:46:04 PM EST
    was that she hated heat and humidity and would refuse to go on walks. So sad we had to stay in during NYC heatwaves :P

    Rox seems to think isn't the bestest thing in the whole world (everything else sure seems to be though!) either, but heat is pretty rare here and even then we generally have the breeze off the bay. If it's too warm, then a game of sprinkler seems to get her energy drained. Trust me, you need to drain her energy at least once a day, or you pay dearly in the evenings . . .

    Parent

    The best way (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 04:50:29 PM EST
    Is to have a big safe yard and just open the door.   Lived n the city with dogs for years and the I discovered yards.
    Mine are all old enough to not bounce off the walls although the golden is borderline.  He is about 2.

    Parent
    Forgot you had a golden! (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:39:37 AM EST
    Definitely 2 is still pretty bouncy.

    My goldens are pretty mad I try to drag them on a walk these mornings. Sometimes they just lay down in the yard and refuse. They have a doggie door in back to go out and do their business, but I thought they wanted some exercise too. Apparently I am wrong, at least as long as it is 80 degrees at 7 am!

    Parent

    Bo. (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:46:53 AM EST
    he's a rescue and an absolute sweetie.  
    Bo seemed to formal so to me he's Booboo

    Parent
    Adorable! He looks just like my Ginger (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:53:58 AM EST
    She has those light eyes too.

    Parent
    He's big (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:03:05 AM EST
    Probably the biggest golden I have seen.  At least 10lbs over the huskies.

    He deals with the heat a lot better than they do.   Last year I had their hair cut but it's been so cool I didn't have it done and now I can't till next payday.  About 100 bucks a dog.

    Parent

    Here is how (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:20:00 AM EST
    Ginger stays cool

    She is pretty big too - not tall, but abnormally long!


    Parent

    Oh my god (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:23:47 AM EST
    She looks so happy

    Parent
    She was! There was a mud puddle (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:27:57 AM EST
    at the park, and she got in there and splashed around - she loved it! It was hysterical. Bath time when we got home of course.

    Parent
    Golden people (none / 0) (#138)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:00:30 AM EST
    You people are so............NICE

    It's the dog for habitually nice people :). And morning people......bleh :)

    Delilah returned from Doggy Daycare with a bacterial kennel cough.  Our Doggy Daycare changed hands, the bleachy smell left too.  It's a petri dish down here.  Poodles just don't do well left alone though so we send them out when we are away.  Need to find a new Doggy Daycare.

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:04:49 AM EST
    Would it be weird to admit that one of the best things about retirement is that I rarely have to leave them with others?

    Parent
    Nope, not at all (none / 0) (#143)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:05:57 AM EST
    Soon we are buying an RV so we don't have to either.  That's the plan

    Parent
    hahaha - you know, none of those (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:01:36 PM EST
    'what kind of dog should you have?' tests match me up with a golden. I think I need goldens to make me happy -if I already had their personality I would not need them!

    My friend that was staying with me last week has had GSDs his whole life. He was constantly marveling at the contrast with my dogs - as Ginger kept pestering him to lick his face in hysterical joy. I think she made him a convert.

    Parent

    Breeds really are different (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:11:08 PM EST
    I had a golden that lived to 20.  I love the huskies the death, especially Ghost, but they are so different than Bo.  Daisy the female is very sweet and friendly but it is 95% about her getting attention not about you. Ghost loves me as much as I love him but try to love on him and it's like 'stooop, you're embarrassing me'.  And he is very curious and friendly with strangers but he will NOT let you touch him.
    Bo will park his 85 lbs in your lap and stay there if you let him.  He lives to make you happy.   And he never met a stranger.

    Parent
    Oh yuck, hope you find a better place (none / 0) (#149)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:22:32 AM EST
    I am lucky to have Happy Paws. They do such a good job...but not cheap so ironically it makes it hard to go away!

    the RV is the way to go.

    Parent

    2 new developments in #Ferguson (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by magster on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:48:42 AM EST
    No orbital fracture, so says Don Lemon of CNN, and no incident report of the shooting was ever prepared or completed by either Ferguson PD or St. Louis county sheriff (as discovered by Missouri ACLU).

    Be interested in knowing what Missouri law is on what is required to be filed in a police shooting case. It's common sense to speculate that Wilson's union rep or lawyer told him to stand on his right to remain silent.

    Incident Report (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 11:26:29 AM EST
    It's common sense to speculate that Wilson's union rep or lawyer told him to stand on his right to remain silent.


    The ((crickets)) coming from that missing incident report is deafening and speaks volumes.

    The Ferguson Chief's excuse for not filing one is that the case was immediately turned over to the County.

    And yet that didn't stop him from speculating for a week about things having to do with the case.  

    Parent

    But the right to remain silent doesn't (5.00 / 2) (#167)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 12:50:46 PM EST
    mean that the officer doesn't file an incident report or even call in the incident.

    Parent
    Exactly... (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:06:19 PM EST
    if that were the case, no incident report would ever have be made by any police on the grounds that it may incriminate them.

    Parent
    No incident report... (none / 0) (#178)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:17:34 PM EST
    Maybe they were trying for a Hail Kafka -

    No incident report means it never happened?

    Parent

    It does though... (none / 0) (#177)
    by magster on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:15:20 PM EST
    Who knows what innocuous thing on a generic report could later be used against him? I could see a lawyer advising him that it's worth the risk to his job to avoid a serious criminal charge.

    What I would like to know is what that cop that Wilson was talking to(as seen in the video) right after the incident heard, and why hasn't that guy filed a report?

    Parent

    What? (none / 0) (#179)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:17:48 PM EST
    Wilson is not charged, was not charged?

    Do you think that he was not required to fill out a report?

    I find that hard to believe.


    Parent

    I think magster... (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:23:15 PM EST
    is saying he probably is required, but better to disobey a work rule than possibly incriminate yourself in a murder.

    Similar to it being smarter to refuse a breathalyzer test, even though that means automatic lose of license, than to incriminate yourself in a dui.

    Parent

    Well stated... (none / 0) (#183)
    by magster on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:24:43 PM EST
    I should hire you to post for me.

    Parent
    Famous last words! (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:26:10 PM EST
    I wouldn't hire me to speak for me;)

    Parent
    Except apparently in CA (whole different story) (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by magster on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:23:27 PM EST
    The right to remain silent is just that. No law, govt. official, can compel someone to make a statement that might incriminate them.

    Why someone other than Wilson hasn't filed something is the question that defies a rational explanation.

    Parent

    Very very fishy... (5.00 / 3) (#170)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:00:59 PM EST
    in my mind a delay or lack of a incident report implies "let's get our (bullsh*t) story straight".

    Parent
    Last night Rachel's opening segment (none / 0) (#145)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:09:29 AM EST
    Was about the contrast between the two recent shootings there and the different response of the two different departments.  The information on the 23 year old was all rapidly forthcoming.  And guess what.  No unrest.

    Parent
    Michael Brady (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by Jack203 on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:35:52 PM EST
    I watched the Anderson Cooper interview and found myself thinking Michael Brady was a credible witness.

    He claims to witness the tussle, and the first shots fired while Wilson was running away.

    He claims to have seen everything except the most critical part, the actual shooting.  I find that interesting.  In a way it adds credibility that he's not lying because he could easily have lied and made it worse for Wilson.  But there is also a very good chance he saw something favorable for Wilson, and does not want to admit to it.

    If there were more than 6 shots, i think it is possible if not probable Wilson began firing when Wilson was fleeing.   And if he was fleeing why would Brown turn around to face Wilson.  Possibly to put his hands up?   Charging a police officer with a gun is pretty crazy and hard to buy.

    I'm more on the fence on this one than I was GZ - TM.  But I still think the police officers injuries, convenience store video, initial witness statements, struggle inside the police car with a shot fired....are going to easily meet reasonable doubt.


    To repeat, my lumbo-sacral spine is PHUCKED (1.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Dadler on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:50:03 AM EST
    Update on the gimp's condition. For the last few weeks it's felt as if, literally, I have two logs hanging from my pelvis impersonating legs.

    I feel like John Lennon on his Lost Weekend, only mine is over my decrepit vertebrae and diskage, and not whether I want to be with Yoko or not.

    "Give me a walker, or give me death! And then put me in the wheelchair!" Patrick Henry Dadler

    Sorry dude (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:06:50 AM EST
    Nothing svcks more or makes you feel "older" than back crap.

    Parent
    Nitro Rollator (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:09:35 AM EST
    Well if you are considering a walker, this is the one to get.

    No comparison to anything else, imo... the porsche of rollators.

    Parent

    A "1" rating because that's horrid news. (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by magster on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:14:36 AM EST
    I hope your health/back recovers quickly. Best wishes.

    Parent
    Sounds truly horrible (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:26:46 AM EST
    We mobile folk don't know how lucky we are until something like that takes it away from us.

    Parent
    This is soooo true (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:37:35 AM EST
    I have gotten much better at managing my back problems but back in the 90s in LA I was having a particularly bad episode and I git down in the kitchen an literally could not get up.  It was a nightmare and I remember thinking 'THIS is what it's like to be old'

    Parent
    Also I resolved to never again make jokes about (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:50:39 AM EST
    "I've fallen an I can't get up!"

    Parent
    Sorry to hear this Dadler (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by fishcamp on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:02:18 PM EST
    I also hate it when body parts that have been repaired  start to blow out again.  My new 13 year old hip replacement has started with the old original pain.  Never will I go through that operation again though.  Hope your back pain eases and the therapy works even though it's a slow painful process you're stuck with.

    Parent
    Lighter side (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 01:10:47 PM EST
    Why Bob (Lazy Eye) McCollough (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 05:18:19 PM EST
    Oculus or whoever else (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 06:57:11 PM EST
    Take a look at these linking instructions and improve on them or otherwise try to help new posters  Uncle Rick  and Palli in the Ferguson thread

    The kind if link you did messes up the site and will get deleted.
    See the little link icon just above the comment box?

    Go to the page you want to link to and copy the URL.   Then, click that little icon.  A box will pop up.  Replace the short bit of text in that box with the URL and hit return.  That will place a line of gobbledygook in the comment box ending with this

    >< forward slash a >

    You put some text (LINK will do) in between ><. Those
    And it will appear blue and be a live link.
    You can test this with the preview button before posting.

    It might take a few trys

    I thought there was linking instructions on the site but I can't find it

    Here's my method: (none / 0) (#80)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 07:28:13 PM EST
    Type whatever it is that's going to be the hyperlink, for example:
       Reports on rioting are here

    Highlight any or all of those words

    Go to whatever site you want to link to, and copy the web address

    Go back to your comment, and make sure you can still see the highlighted text

    Go up to the little link icon above the comment box and click on it; a little window will appear.

    Paste the web address you copied into that window and click OK

    You should see the HTML code surrounding the text you highlighted, and when you hit Preview, you should see hyperlinked text

    To verify that the link works, right click on it and open it in a new window; if you're seeing the page you wanted to link to, you can go back to your comment, finish it and Post it.

    Parent

    Thanks (none / 0) (#82)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 07:41:43 PM EST
    Honestly your method sounds confusing to me.  Which makes me realize my method  - which seems perfectly simple to me - is probably really confusing to anyone else.
    We use it all the time and forget it's not a cinch.

    Backup
    Use tinyurl and keep practicing

    Parent

    Brackets Work Well (none / 0) (#83)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 08:09:50 PM EST
    [Link wordUrl]  no space is needed between link word or words and URL

    ]ink

    Parent

    And naturally Apple computers (none / 0) (#98)
    by fishcamp on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 07:51:04 AM EST
    have a different way of accomplishing this event.

    Parent
    OH (none / 0) (#99)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 07:56:00 AM EST
    Did not know that, as I am only familiar with Apple computers.
    And bracket (no spaces needed) around link word and url does the trick.

    Does the bracket method not work a different type of computer?

    Parent

    well for one thing Apple computers (none / 0) (#101)
    by fishcamp on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:27:38 AM EST
    do not have the little link icon above the comment box like PC's or windows computers do.  But I've never done it with anything but Apple.

    Parent
    Interesting (none / 0) (#108)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:56:04 AM EST
    I have all the buttons above the comment box including the link button..

    B, I, U, link, email, "..  

    apple power book

    Parent

    Have not used brackets (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:32:50 AM EST
    But I have the link icon.
    iPad

    Parent
    Both of my Apple computers have the link (none / 0) (#161)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 11:26:51 AM EST
    button. Desktop and PB.

    Parent
    Hmm, let me recheck this... (none / 0) (#176)
    by fishcamp on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:11:10 PM EST
    Yep, I've been doing it wrong but... (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by fishcamp on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:41:56 PM EST
    TGIF and even though it's only 2:38 I'm going for a Cuba Libre to relieve my bad link think.  BTW it's 95 here with an index of 107...I better make that a double.

    Parent
    Same here (none / 0) (#195)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:49:06 PM EST
    Supposed to be over triple digits without the index over the weekend.  Time be binge.

    Parent
    Just when you think things are getting better (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 10:38:33 PM EST
    You read something like this

    Abuse of Boy Battered to Death By Mother Who Called Him 'Gay' Described in Court

    PALMDALE, Calif. - Graphic grand jury testimony reveals details of the abuse suffered by an 8-year-old Los Angeles County boy who was allegedly battered to death by his mother and her boyfriend.

    Court documents made public Monday show Gabriel Fernandez was doused with pepper spray, forced to eat his own vomit and locked in a cabinet with a sock stuffed in his mouth to muffle his screams, the Los Angeles Times reported.

    His siblings said Gabriel was often called gay, punished when he played with dolls and forced to wear girls' clothes to school.

    The Palmdale boy died in May 2013, days after he was hospitalized with injuries including a cracked skull, broken ribs and burns.

    --

    Fernandez called 911 on May 22, 2013, to report that her son was not breathing. She told sheriff's deputies who arrived at the apartment that Gabriel had fallen and hit his head on a dresser, according to testimony. When paramedics arrived, they found Gabriel naked in a bedroom, not breathing, with BB pellets embedded in his lung and groin. He died two days later.

    --

    "For eight straight months, he was abused, beaten and tortured more severely than many prisoners of war," Hatami said.



    Question about Crump lying like this. (none / 0) (#117)
    by CityLife on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 09:24:33 AM EST
    I have a question I was hoping someone could answer. Is Crump as a lawyer allowed to lie in public about material evidence of a case? I was just wondering if he is risking is law license by doing so. If anyone can answer that for me I would appreciate it. For context here is the video where Crump is lying.

    BTW, if anyone questions my claim that Crump really did lie (like some have in comments to that vide linked above, I thought I would provide the detailed reply I just posted to someone:

    It is not out of context. THIS video, THESE words: "They had the marks there that can show that he had shots that could only take place where he had his hands up." What exactly do you think that sentence means? "They had" (the doctors who performed the autopsy had) "the marks there" (the drawings on the autopsy diagram) "that can show" (can it?) "that he had shots that could only take place where he had his hands up." (Is that true or false?) Is it true or false that Brown "had shots that could only take place where he had his hands up? 

    The sentence before that one: "It substantiated what a lot of those witnesses were saying about when he put his hands up. "it substantiated" (the autopsy report, did it really provide evidence to support or prove the truth of what Crump claims? Or did it really not prove or provide evidence of that any more than it proved or provided evidence that his arms were in different positions such as was shot with his arms in front of him or at his sides. It is dishonest to say it supported the theory that Brown put his hands up because it didn't do that, it said the other positions were possible too. It no more substantiated that claim than it substantiated the claim that Brown didn't have his hands up when those shots hit him. ) 

    You didn't answer my previous reply to you: Since when are there witness claims that Brown was shot in the arms, or claims about the wounds to Browns' arms? There weren't witnesses claiming he was shot in the arms, only claims that he was shot while holding his arms up. He was being asked about the AUTOPSY and he lied when he replied:  "It substantiated what a lot of those witnesses were saying about when he put his hands up. They had the marks there that can show that he had shots that could only take place where he had his hands up." There are the two sentences. The witnesses didn't "have the marks there" did they? that doesn't even make sense, but i only bring it up since you seem to be trying to say that and the next part in that sentence is a clear cut falsehood: "that can show that he had shots that could only take place where he had his hands up." That's false because the autopsy "can show" that he had shots that could take place with his hands not up too, so it is a LIE to claim the autopsy shows "only" the scenario of Brown being shot while his hands are up. 
     

    Hands Up (none / 0) (#166)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 12:45:05 PM EST
    WADR I don't have to believe Crump to see that those 6-8 wounds validate the witnesses:

    The one to the inside of the upper arm is a grazing wound that could have come from behind or the front.

    The one to the forearm could have come from behind or with his arm up.

    The one that went into the palm of his hand could have come with his hand up.

    And then when you imagine him with his hand up at head level, you can see that all those shots grouped together in one area.

    On that 10 minute cellphone video that you talk about you can hear a guy in the background telling what he heard and he says that there were 8 shots -- 4 shots then he waited a few seconds and then 4 more.

    Parent

    $225,000 in crowdfunding for Ferguson Officer's (none / 0) (#180)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:21:24 PM EST
    Cue Garth Brooks... (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:25:01 PM EST
    I got friends in low places....

    Parent
    Saw Garth in concert a couple of years ago in (none / 0) (#187)
    by Angel on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:29:10 PM EST
    his little one-man show in Las Vegas.  Best concert ever!!  

    Parent
    Better than Dave Alvin even? (none / 0) (#189)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:34:48 PM EST
    That's a bold statement Angel.

    Parent
    Ha! (none / 0) (#198)
    by Angel on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:51:40 PM EST
    Walmart (none / 0) (#186)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:28:12 PM EST
    Sold out of blue light bulbs for porch lights

    Parent
    MJ Has Comments From Donors (none / 0) (#190)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:36:31 PM EST
    Vile and disgusting as you can possible imagine/

    Mother Jones via digby

    Parent

    I'm telling ya (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:45:55 PM EST
    Some very ugly sentiments festering there.  I have been saying it from the beginning.  You hear it, or PCed up versions of it, even from people you would never expect.

    I was talking about STL compared to a city like Atlanta the other day where they have at least done some work on dealing with these issues.

    Saw a kid, very young kid, on teevee yesterday who nailed it.  He said STL had never dealt with these issues and it had to happen.  One way or another it was going to happen.  Especially now that it's started they were not going back to silent acquiesce.  

    Parent

    I wonder... (none / 0) (#192)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:43:42 PM EST
    if there is a funding terrorism charge there that Holder could pursue.  

    Kidding!  Don't wanna give the police state any other ideas....

    Parent

    This brings to mind something I read on TPM... (none / 0) (#194)
    by magster on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:46:18 PM EST
    this morning about the shattering of a naive liberal's "worldview" that Obama's election heralded a post-racial America.

    Parent
    I could (none / 0) (#199)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:52:26 PM EST
    not believe the number of people that bought into that worldview back in 2008 when he was running. For some reason they thought he was going to solve these problems but just being elected. I knew that was not going to be the case and even said so back then. The thing it has done though is bring a lot of this stuff to the surface like a pus filled sore. I don't think race relations are any better or any worse for Obama being elected. I think nothing changed on that account other than the fact you can more easily identify the racists in the country.

    Parent
    Totally agree. Discussed this exact thing (none / 0) (#202)
    by Angel on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:56:01 PM EST
    with a friend two days ago.

    Parent
    They Became Emboldened (none / 0) (#203)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:57:11 PM EST
    I think nothing changed on that account other than the fact you can more easily identify the racists in the country.

    I think that is a big change..  like the pus that start to come out of a wound.

    Makes it easer to treat when the pus becomes visible, imo.

    I think that is a good sign.

    Parent

    I like (or liked) to think... (none / 0) (#200)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:52:59 PM EST
    the post 2008 bigotry we've witnessed was the death wail of a dying breed...but I may have been naïve myself.  

    Parent