Monday Open Thread

It's a jail day for me, which means an open thread for you. All topics welcome, but please watch your tone and avoid name-calling and insults to other commenters as well as posting comments intended soley to bait others whose views you disagree with. Our last thread had several such comments, it's cleaned now and a few people are in time out.

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    OMG it's thundering outside! (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Angel on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:53:27 PM EST
    We desperately need the rain.  Please let us have a good ground-soaking rain but no winds or damage like the last time.  

    It Was at My Doorstep... (none / 0) (#85)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 08:27:17 AM EST
    ...I generally like thunder and lighting, but last night was a little too close for comfort.  I don't like the windows rattling and zero delay between flash and sound.

    My electricity went out at least 10 times, and for us, the rain on Sunday was plenty, but it was nice to wake up to 75 degree, granted the humility was around 785%.

    When I lived up north, the glassed fogged up when going inside, down south, they fog up when going outside.


    My windows have been steamed (none / 0) (#86)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 08:35:16 AM EST
    on the outside every morning for the last month! (Orlando) We have had lots of rain, very high humidity all summer - the allergens are taking over, everyone at work has been trying to shake coughs and sinus troubles.  Just miserable to be outdoors. Even my dogs won't go outside unless I drag them!

    But - almost September when maybe the nighttime lows will drop below 75. cold!


    The rain never arrived at my doorstep. (none / 0) (#87)
    by Angel on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:02:43 AM EST
    All we got was thunder and lightening.  Going to be another hot and dry day here.  

    I wish you coulda had mine... (none / 0) (#149)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 12:42:27 PM EST
    today has been a nightmare.  Woke up to 13 mother-f*ckin' inches of rain in 24 hrs, a new state record.  Basement flooded, pumped that out before work best I could but the water was just pouring back in...nowhere to pump it.

    Then my normal 20 minute commute took over 2 hours...roads closed cars under water left and right.  People were sitting on their car roofs waiting for rescue in some places.  

    Shoulda stayed home, I'm an idiot.


    We are finally having (none / 0) (#176)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:35:37 PM EST
    A dry spell.   The grass is starting to turn a bit brown.   Which is ok with me,.

    Sui generis ... Robin Williams gave (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by christinep on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 07:10:27 PM EST
    the term special meaning.  Very sad.  There will be less laughter in the years ahead ... less hearty laughter that he could bring.

    Robin Williams once said that he wanted to emulate Jonathan Winters.  I think that he did himself and Jonathan proud.  

    Those greats:  Jonathan Winters, of course.  Ernie Kovacs, Sid Caesar.  And, right in front of the band: Robin Williams.

    That's absolutely horrible news. (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:40:17 PM EST
    The Marin County Sheriff's Office is calling Robin Williams' death an apparent suicide. Deputies responding to the scene at his home in Tiburon early this afternoon found him unresponsive.

    I know that Williams had been battling severe depression and substance abuse issues for some time, but this still definitely comes as a shock. At this point, I can only hope that he's finally found the peace and tranquility that was apparently missing in his life, and also keep his family in my heart and prayers.

    May the Heavens bless him and keep him always.


    I loved the twee his daugher posted (none / 0) (#117)
    by Amiss on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 12:09:42 AM EST
    Wish I could find it. I hope his star is full of laughter, and may he find the joy in death that he gave so many in life. Several years ago on one of his USO tours to Iraq a friend sent me a picture of him and Robin had his arm around him. My friend said that there was such a kindness about him, he was very touched by it.

    Zelda Williams has closed her Twitter account (none / 0) (#146)
    by caseyOR on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 12:23:09 PM EST
    because of ugly and vicious and misogynistic tweets sent to her by a couple of a$$hats.

    The sad fact is that Zelda's treatment by these jerks is pretty much the norm for women who dare to express themselves anywhere on the internet. They cannot even give a break to a grieving daughter.


    Oh man (none / 0) (#153)
    by sj on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 01:25:28 PM EST
    And don't you just love all the comments saying basically that's her own fault for engaging in social media? Trolls abound.

    That poor girl.


    Circles. (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by lentinel on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 06:04:21 AM EST
    Obama is now sending jets from "The Bush". If things go on their present course, and the republicans wind up nominating Jeb, and the democrats wind up nominating Biden, we could wind up with Bush sending jets from "The Obama".

    Ben Crump... (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:05:45 AM EST
    ...guess who Jeralyn's favorite attorney is representing ?

    Michael Brown, the unarmed teen shot by cops in Ferguson.  His family has just hired Ben Crump, the same guy who represented Trevon Martin's family down in Florida.

    What in F were they thinking, they need public support, not a showboating jack@ss.  My opinion of course.

    Lauren Bacall has passed away, per WaPo. (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Angel on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 07:17:55 PM EST
    Lauren Bacall, a defining movie star of the 1940s, has died at the age of 89. A bewitching actress with a husky voice, Bacall was known on screen for her smoldering onscreen chemistry with her husband Humphrey Bogart and later went on to become a disciplined Broadway performer.

    Bogey and Bacall, sigh... (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Dadler on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 07:49:53 PM EST
    RIP to a lovely lady.

    To Have and Have Not: (5.00 / 3) (#112)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 08:02:52 PM EST
    One of the iconic movie scenes from 1940s Hollywood:

    "You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? You just put your lips together -- and blow."

    She's together again with Bogart.


    My favorite line was (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 10:01:06 AM EST
    after she kisses him, "It's even better when you help". Love it.

    I hope there is an afterlife foyer and she and Robin Williams are having a chat.


    Like the green room (none / 0) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 10:02:50 AM EST
    In the sky.   I like that idea.  

    With Carson (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 10:18:49 AM EST
    If they never were all on together, what a wasted opportunity!

    Hey (none / 0) (#191)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 06:12:16 PM EST
    I am enjoying The Bridge.  I never got around to watching the first season but I don't think it matters much.  

    But I look forward to it seeing it when I get around to it.
    Apart from everything else I like about it I like the idea of a show that is about half subtitles all the time.  


    Even better, from the Big Sleep, (none / 0) (#119)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 07:17:06 AM EST
    Bogie and Bacall discuss "horse racing."

    A great lady... (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by desertswine on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:16:43 PM EST
    she was born a star.

    Lauren Bacall.. (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by desertswine on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:23:40 PM EST
    Re Bacall's husky voice: (none / 0) (#133)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 10:53:59 AM EST
    Ms. Bacall's naturally low voice was further deepened in her early months in Hollywood. Hawks wanted her voice to remain low even during emotional scenes and suggested she find some quiet spot and read aloud. She drove to Mulholland Drive and began reading "The Robe," making her voice lower and louder than usual.
     [NYT obit.]

    Have some sad news (5.00 / 5) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 11:26:02 AM EST
    Some of you may recall me mentioning my new octogenarian "Girldfriend"?
    Recently I talked her into getting a cell phone to replace her terrible land line which worked about half the time.  The last time I spoke to her she had received her cell phone and was having her land line disconnected.  It was a message.  Sadly I missed the call.  She said she did not yet have her cell number but as soon as she did she would give me a call.  I waited.  Weeks pased. She lives pretty far from me. About 55 miles one way so it's not like I can just drop by to check on her.   So yesterday I called the senior center, where I met her while employeed there, and asked if they had heard for her.   The lady I spoke to, Peggy, is a force of nature.   She is 96  And works every day.   She gets paid for three hours a day and works about 10.  At 96.   And I am talking work.  Mopping floors cleaning  bathrooms etc.
    Anyway Pegy went to check.  And she had passed.  The sad part is it looks like it was about a month ago.  No one knew till Peggy came.   Peggy called me this a couple of days ago  distraught.  I told her to not be.  Kathrine was a free spirit.  She lived the way she wanted to live and she would have  been fine with how it ended.
    Still, it makes me very sad.

    I am so sorry (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by sj on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 11:43:08 AM EST
    for the loss of your friend.

    So sorry for that (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 11:52:37 AM EST
    Glad she lived as she wanted to the end. It is good that you followed up when you did.

    Peggy sounds amazing. A great role model!


    Peggy is amazing (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 04:01:27 PM EST
    But in a way she is a barometer of what is wrong with the country.  They don't give them enough money to run the senior centers so people like her have to basically do it for free.   And there are not many Peggy's.  Nor should there need to be IMO.  Peggy is about as close to a saint as anyone I have ever met.   She literally spends her life healing others.   For free.   And the stupid religious cult that runs the centers in this county hate her and have been trying to get rid of her for years because they can't controll her.  Several times she has refused to sign the letters sent to the people being served.  She refused to sign one sent to Katherine that said if she was going to receive services like transportation to buy food or see a doctor she must not "talk unless it was necessary".  Because Katherine was a atheist and they didn't like what she occasionally had to say.
    Peggy says they can cut back my hours but they can't fire me so they can't keep me away.  I'm here every day.
    It sickens me to think of the snide self righteous remarks that will be made about Peggy when she can no longer be there.  They will be happy on that day.
    I despise them.

    Interesting typeo (none / 0) (#189)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 04:43:03 PM EST
    spends her life healing others.

    That was supposed to be helping not healing.  Or I guess I wouldn't be the only be discussing sainthood.

    But really, that too.


    You know (none / 0) (#196)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 07:03:29 PM EST
    my son was going to one of those churches and your description prompted me to research them and find out that they really are a cult. I said they are against everything you profess to believe and he said I know. I said you're going to change everything to go to church with these people? No answer to that. He missed a couple of Sundays and they are showing up wanting to know where he was. I said see? I told you they were going to do that. They did everything that the information I found said they would. Anyway, thankfully he's not going there anymore and told them that he probably would not be back. I guess he couldn't come out and just say he definitely wouldn't be back or it would be worse. Sheesh, those people are borderline evil. Who would want to be a Christian if those psycho control freaks were all you saw.

    They are absolutely a cult (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 07:18:46 PM EST
    And they do hound people who try to leave.

    And I take issue with the qualifier "borderline"


    So sorry Capt. (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by ZtoA on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 01:56:03 PM EST
    She sounded like an amazing woman and friend.

    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:36:47 PM EST
    Thinking of you. (none / 0) (#188)
    by Angel on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 04:26:19 PM EST

    I'm so sorry. (none / 0) (#195)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 06:59:21 PM EST
    She seemed like a kindred soul which is probably pretty hard for you to find in your area.

    She was (none / 0) (#200)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 07:19:35 PM EST
    I am happy I knew her

    Brooklyn Bridge White Flag Update... (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 02:58:38 PM EST
    The case may be solved...not by the bumbling boobs at 1 Police Plaza, but by confession.  Two German artists are claiming responsibility, with the reason being to commemorate the anniversary of the death of the German who designed the bridge, John Roebling.

    "This was not an anti-American statement," the two men insist. "From our Berlin background, we were a little surprised that it got the reaction it did. We really didn't intend to embarrass the police. We saw the bridge, which was designed by a German, trained in Berlin, who came to America because it was the place to fulfill his dreams, as the most beautiful expression of a great public space. That beauty was what we were trying to capture."

    Embarrassing the NYPD was like a bonus!  I wonder if they'll try to have them extradited to face "justice"...lol.

    Interesting part (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by KeysDan on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:29:21 PM EST
    on "security."  From the  NYT article: Following the stunt, New Yorkers questioned why the officers stationed at the edges of the bridge, usually in parked patrol cars, had failed to notice anything..  Mr. Davis (police spokesman) said those officers were not being relied on to detect intruders or screen bridge traffic, they wee there to block the bridge's entrances should the Police Department ever need to stop traffic from entering in the case of an emergency or a terrorist threat. Security has been improved, however, on the bridge since the episode.  It was not stated if that included the officers in the patrol cars being tasked to look up from time to time.

    Unbelievable (none / 0) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:48:56 PM EST
    "jail day..." (none / 0) (#1)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 02:21:41 PM EST
    One of these days you're gonna write a book.

    Another day... (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 02:30:41 PM EST
    another case of fatal police state collateral damage.

    This one sounds bad, real bad...will it ever stop?

    This is happening in a suburb adjacent to (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by MO Blue on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 02:53:40 PM EST
    where I live. I have participated in numerous activities sponsored by the City of Ferguson and/or their well established business community.  These activities were attended by members of multiple races and I never got the impression that there was a serious racial problem. From all appearances the majority of the residents, as well as the city, were  working hard to maintain the city as a good place to live and raise a family and run a small business.

    A friend of mine who lives there is desolate.  He rightly stated that this is pulling his community apart.

    I'm not sure that even when this ceases to be a crisis that the city will ever return to the community it was prior to this tragic event.


    Thanks for (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 02:59:28 PM EST
    that information.  And, welcome home. We miss you when you are gone.

    Maybe wait til the (none / 0) (#34)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:41:21 PM EST
    witnesses are interviewed. Why would any sentient human being push a law enforcement officer into the law enforcement vehicle?

    Witnesses... (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:46:13 PM EST
    dispute the police dept's version of events.

    I'm gonna wait. (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:53:46 PM EST
    Ah but (none / 0) (#36)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:53:21 PM EST
    Hasn't Jeralyn (among others) railed here many times the problem of eyewitness accounts, especially in a stressful situation and especially if those witnesses may have a bias?

    Let the investigation continue before passing judgment.


    no problem with that... (none / 0) (#45)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:04:16 PM EST
    Don't know how biased the FBI investigation will be, but certainly better than the local PD.  

    But even under the best of circumstances for the officer, an unarmed 18 year old is dead. Unacceptable even if there was a scuffle...the deceased is a kid who was allegedly jaywalking, the cop is a grown arse man and supposedly a trained professional.


    First they shot us for selling loosies... (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 07:06:47 PM EST
    But I wasn't selling loosies, so I said nothing.

    Then they shot us for jaywalking...


    My Feeling... (none / 0) (#84)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 08:17:29 AM EST
    ...it would be very odd if there isn't video, at least sound from the cruiser dash cam.   And surely someone filmed the end of it.

    But fear not, the odds of a cop being found guilty of shooting an un-armed black kid are right there with winning a Power Ball jackpot.  It could happen, but quite dreaming...


    I think what really bothered me were (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by Anne on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:10:38 AM EST
    the comments of the police chief, who felt the need to remind people that the shooting was a tragedy for the officer who killed the kid.  Really?  How so?  Because he has to live with what he did?

    I'm sorry, but it's not a tragedy for the cop - he gets to live, his wife doesn't have to bury him and his children still have their father (assuming he's married with kids - I really don't know).  

    Will it bother him that he killed someone whose only transgression seems to have started with walking in the street while black?  It should, but I have a feeling that his brothers in blue will help him rationalize that he did "the right thing."



    whats bothering me now... (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 07:24:51 PM EST
    is the police response to the unrest the tragedy triggered...looks like a f#ckin' occupying army hit town. Machine guns, gas masks, the whole 9. Not the way to mend police/community relations. The cops want war, according to the horrible optics.

    Problem is (none / 0) (#120)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 07:19:20 AM EST
    There are a small number of people in that town who want to turn a tragedy into an excuse to smash windows and get free TVs.

    FYI (5.00 / 3) (#136)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 11:23:45 AM EST
    So far none of the people who are listed as arrested for looting etc. were listed as living in Ferguson.

    AA college students from the area have gone to the looted businesses and offered to help clean up and at times have been rudely turned away.

    Also based on what I am hearing, some white people in the  North County area are using this incident to justify their existing prejudice to the point of wanting to call out the National Guard to shoot some more black people.

    Unfortunately, the looting has given many white people a handy excuse to justify ignoring the underlying reason for the demonstration. The shooting of an unarmed man.


    This is what I hate about looting: it (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 12:15:15 PM EST
    takes all the emphasis off the original incident - the shooting/killing of an unarmed black kid - and (1) it gives people a reason to think maybe the cops were justified if this is how the black community responds and (2) shifts sympathy over to the cops' side of the whole thing.

    I know people acting out of anger and frustration do not always make the best decisions, but from what you've said about the community in general, it doesn't seem like the people whose stores and businesses were looted are the people responsible for what the cops did or are doing.

    It won't matter to the wider world if the looters aren't from the community - the end result will be that it is the community that will suffer, because it will be used as a justification for short-cutting what should be a thorough investigation.


    I don't see the looting (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by sj on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 11:39:43 AM EST
    as "the problem". The "problem" was that an unarmed teenager was shot in the back by a police officer.

    I see the looting a symptom.


    I really hate these kinds of discussions. (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 01:51:17 PM EST
    I can't tell you why anyone loots - I can't tell you why these people looted, whether they were doing it out of anger and frustration or out of opportunity.

    MOBlue says the community has worked hard to work together - if that includes cops, and this one cop made a bad judgment, why would the community take it out on the businesses?  

    I don't happen to think looting's okay no matter what the circumstances are - it's stupid and NEVER accomplishes whatever good people think it will when they do it.  It just hardens people's opinions in a negative way that is counterproductive to progress.  

    Symptom/problem/excuse - whatever.  We need to stop killing people, we need to stop militarizing our police departments, we need to start holding people accountable for their actions at all levels.


    May not include cops (5.00 / 3) (#171)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:17:03 PM EST
    Missouri Attorney General Report on Ferguson police according to LAtimes:

    Blacks make up 65% of Ferguson's population, yet they accounted for 93% of arrests, 92% of searches and 80% of traffic stops in the city last year, according to a racial profiling report by the Missouri attorney general.

    Blacks in Ferguson are twice as likely as whites to be stopped by police even though police find contraband for 34% of whites stopped, versus 22% of blacks, said Scott Decker, a criminologist on a team contracted by the attorney general's office to compile the data.

    Not real great statistics as far as I'm concerned.


    Well, this just confirms for me that (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:26:19 PM EST
    a police department that would let a dead kid's body lie in the street for hours on end - a kid a cop killed - with no consideration for his family or the community, and that represents that this was equally a tragedy for the cop who killed the kid, may have deeper problems than was initially apparent.

    People's world view is often (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:57:54 PM EST
    defined by their personal experiences. This may well be the case with how I have viewed the City of Ferguson. My perceptions have mainly been formed by my experiences with Ferguson sponsored activities - daily events as well longer trips which are attended by both races. I have talked to many of these same people over the course of the last two or three years and it always seemed that everyone was working hard to keep the city a good place to live and work.

    The city has been able to maintain a small business area which seem to be doing well and a Saturday Farmer's market that gets written up quite often.

    The residents that I interact with in those venues are normally older adults (not all seniors) and city employees or businesses who job it is to make sure everyone is treated well.

    I just listened to an interview of the young man who was with Michael Brown at the time of his death. His perception was somewhat different than what I have experienced. One of the things that he mentioned was that young black people living in  Ferguson are more often than not hired by Ferguson businesses. They have to outside their city to find the same level jobs that are not available to them in Ferguson. That is his perception and therefore his reality.

    As in all things, the truth may fall somewhere in between.



    To clarify (none / 0) (#183)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 04:01:22 PM EST
    Young AA are not hired by the Ferguson businesses.

    I disagree (none / 0) (#143)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 12:01:04 PM EST
    Whomever is looting - white, black, from town or not - this is an excuse. MO Blue may be right that they are from out of town, which lends even more credence to the fact that this is an excuse to loot. What exactly is this a symptom of?

    What did the people who own those businesses do?  I'm not sure what you expect of the police department when stuff like this is going on?  

    I can't imagine the outcry if the police held back and let this die down on its own.  Seriously - what do you want them to do? I'm not a cop (thankfully) and have never had to deal with large numbers of people acting with a violent and mob mentality.  What do you want from them? To pack it up and stay in the station?

    And before anyone gets on the crazy train, I am talking about the looting and not the Michael Brown shooting and investigation.  If you want to imagine things I'm saying about that - keep it to yourself.


    If you have to ask ... (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by sj on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 01:13:25 PM EST
    What exactly is this a symptom of?
    ...I'm not sure how much further this conversation can go, but I'll try.

    The looting is a symptom of the sickness of the relationship between the police and the citizens that they are supposed to protect. The boil that burst was the military style response to the original demonstrations. In no way am I justifying the looting, but neither does the looting justify the disproportional response from the police force.

    And this question is just too ludicrous to respond to.

    What do you want from them? To pack it up and stay in the station?
    That's crazy train right there. If you don't want people to jump on it, you shouldn't fire it up.

    Really... (5.00 / 3) (#154)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 01:28:16 PM EST
    Seriously - what do you want them to do?

    I think pretty much everyone would like the police to stop shooting unarmed black kids.

    Ever notice that there are no riots over cops shooting armed people, arresting them, or just generally treating people like human beings, you know, what the law prescribes ?

    When the cops start abiding by the law, rioting over their behavior will vanish.

    You beef should be with the cause, not the effect.


    Not answering the question (none / 0) (#156)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 01:37:42 PM EST
    The shooting incident occurred.  It's tragic and there is an investigation going on.

    However, the riots and looting are taking place now.  So my same question is - what do you want the cops to do?

    And for the record, a DC cop was shot this morning by some jacka$$es who tried to carjack him.  27 LEO's have been killed in the line of duty by gunfire this year. I can't tell you how many other people died by gunfire this year alone.  How many riots were there then?

    Those people don't care about Michael Brown or his family. They care about hubcaps and 42" plasma TVs.


    Only 27? (5.00 / 3) (#161)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 02:14:49 PM EST
    In 2012 a black man was killed by law enforcement, private security, or vigilante every 28 hours.

    I'm amazed there isn't a revolution, never mind the occasional riot.  


    It seems unfair to lump law wnforcement/ (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 02:57:00 PM EST
    security guards and vigilantes.  

    Unfair to who? (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:01:35 PM EST
    The black men with bulls-eyes on their backs?

    JB wants pity for the police because 27 got shot...where's the pity for the black man?

    It certainly explains the hopelessness and rage that leads to social unrest.  They are the hunted....not cops.


    Inaccurate maybe is a better word. (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:02:49 PM EST
    I clearly stated... (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:14:29 PM EST
    the trifecta as to not mislead...cop, toy cop, and wanna-be cop.  The only difference really is the uniform and adornment on the chest.

    If you're a young black male you might be relieved to only have to worry about police...but they are not the only threat.  You've got your Zimmermans and your armed security guards to worry about to.  No to mention their large cheering section.

    I'm fairly in tune to this stuff, and even I can't imagine what it must be like to be a member of a society that thinks your life is so cheap.

    And since when did riots get such a bad rap?  Were it not for riots, we might all be working 12 hours a day 6 days a week.  Riots give the clueless a clue something is very rotten in Denmark.


    Certainly the people whose (none / 0) (#175)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:31:53 PM EST
    propert is destroyed take notice. But to what avail re law enforcement?

    I agree... (none / 0) (#180)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:53:32 PM EST
    the local precinct would be the structure to throw bricks at, but storming the precinct means real bullets comin' at ya instead of tear gas.  Or the governor calling in the National Guard.

    Gotta link kdog? (none / 0) (#162)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 02:26:13 PM EST
    Since a vast, vast majority of police officers go their entire career and never fire their gun outside a shooting range, I'd love to see the backup on your claim.

    Found it via Jezebel.... (none / 0) (#163)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 02:32:00 PM EST
    Sorry, kdog (none / 0) (#173)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:27:54 PM EST
    This is a study from an organzation a) with an obvious agenda, and b) who is using "weasel words" to explain their conclusions.

    Mainly, it doesn't differentiate those shot based on "out of control cops" and those who were killed while committing actual crimes - like pointing weapons at police officers or someone else (aka "justifiable").  That alone makes this data very sloppy and would make a HUGE difference to their interpretation. (The fact this was not splashed all over MSNBC, for example, should tell you that the data and analysis is fuzzy).

    Also fuzzy are is if all these people are killed by cops who are in the line of duty at the time.  (Answer:  No - they aren't).  
    Example 1 from their list:  Robin Taneisha Williams - killed by on off duty officer who was drunk driving.

    Example 2:  Antwain White - shot and killed by an off-duty officer when Mr. White hit him with a cane in the face in an attempted mugging.

    Example 3:  Adaisha Miller - killed accidentally when dancing with an off-duty police officer at a party and she apparently reached for his gun.  No evidence exists that he actually touched his gun.

    And that's for starters because I don't have time to look at them all.

    Look - this is a problem, no doubt, of too many police killings of civilians.  But if you want to make the point that cops are out on the hunt for unarmed black citizens just to kill them, you need better sources with better data.


    I knew you would have a beef... (none / 0) (#181)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:56:40 PM EST
    with the source...I don't, more credible than the FBI in my book.  

    How many of your 27 cops "had it coming"?


    The problem I have with your question, (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:03:53 PM EST
    is that you're asking what the cops should have done once the looting started; my question - and maybe others have the same one - is, what should the cops have done before things got to that point?

    The community was terribly upset in the immediate aftermath of the shooting - as any community would be.  This kid's body lay in the street for hours - hours - with the police chief stating only that it took a long time to process the scene.  Really now, are they arguing there was nothing they could do but leave Michael Brown's body in the street for hours on end?  Did they have any appreciation or understanding of how that was likely to affect people, including his family?  That all it did was allow emotion to build and frustration to grow?  What role did that play in the eventual looting?

    When I consider that this same police chief felt he needed to remind people that the cop who killed Brown had also suffered a tragedy, I start to wonder about this police department's focus; this tragedy didn't happen to them, it happened to a member of the community, and the lack of sensitivity to that community likely drove much of what followed.

    What did I want the police to do?  Having enough respect for a dead young man, his family and community to not leave his dead body on the street for hours would have been a good start.


    Again (5.00 / 4) (#186)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 04:18:01 PM EST
    The shooting incident occurred.  It's tragic and there is an investigation going on.

    However, the riots and looting are taking place now.  So my same question is - what do you want the cops to do?

    I would like the police to quit shooting unarmed black kids, there really is no more obvious cause and effect.

    If you want pretend that this about free stuff, who I am to argue, but acting as if there is no link between excessive force by police and riots is simply wearing blinders.

    Riots for shot cops is ridiculous, being a cop is inherently dangerous, being black should not be, nor should the danger be from the very folks tasked with protecting them.  There would be riots if cops killers weren't prosecuted, and on the occasional time they are, the shooters are almost guaranteed an acquittal.  Riot would not describe the level out outrage and violence that would erupt, especially if the cop killer was black.

    People with the power to incarcerate have no reason to riot, what would their beef be exactly, that they are ticked off that sometimes the dangerous job they took, is life ending dangerous, that people who commit crimes should be in jail, that cops killers should be executed ?

    If you are going to insist on giving the cops the benefit of the doubt, doesn't it stand to reason that benefit should extend to all other parties, not just cops ?  You are laying guilt on half the equation and saving judgement for the other half, why ?

    Doesn't it bother you that cops solve crimes they witness on the spot, yet when we witness them committing crimes, it takes months to figure it out.  Had the kid shot the cop, they would not refuse to name him or cut off all communication until they completed their investigation which be already wrapped up.  But for some reason, investigating cops seems to take a whole lot more man power and time, and they always seem to reach the same reach the same conclusion.  


    What exactly (5.00 / 3) (#160)
    by vicndabx on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 02:14:25 PM EST
    It is a symptom of a historically undervalued population that has been largely denied access to the American dream reacting to more in-your-face evidence of how little their lives matter.

    I'm not saying the behavior is right. I'm saying your inference that these are opportunists is right, but your inference behind why they do it is wrong.

    Simple question, how many black folk did you see smashing store windows in VA today?


    The Problem is... (5.00 / 4) (#140)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 11:45:44 AM EST
    ...the cops are inflaming the situation with the blue wall and a military like response to broken glass and stole TV's.

    People aren't looting because a black kid got shot, they are looting because the cops almost instantaneously went into cover-up mode.  Whether it's a cover-up we don't know yet, but they are not acting in a way in which people believe a department with nothing to hide should act.

    Broken glass and TV's do not warrant this kind of response, especially when you consider it the same folks dressed like storm troopers in the streets are the same folks claiming they didn't use excessive force in the shooting.  Businesses are insured, the stuff will get replaced.

    The cops do what they always do, throw gas on the fire with unwarranted force.  and instead of coming out, and trying to calm the public by, at the very least, pretending like they care a kid died by their hands, or that that there is nothing to hide, they are only proving excessive force and secrecy is the norm.

    Who knows what happened, but like the cops love to say, "They aren't acting in a way that innocent people usually act".


    No reason... (5.00 / 3) (#148)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 12:38:21 PM EST
    to call in an army...it's a reason to call for calm, not escalate things even further.

    The big problem is a large number of people only want to talk about looting now instead of the killing that so angered a community it led to rioting and looting.


    "A jail day" (none / 0) (#3)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 02:45:04 PM EST
    for Federal US District Court Judge Mark Fuller, for the Middle District of Alabama.  In what appears to be a weekend getaway gone awry, the police responded to the Ritz Carlton in downtown Atlanta at 10:47 p Saturday and was taken to the Fulton County jail at 2:30 am (Sunday).  He was held without bond on a misdemeanor charge--his wife claimed that she was assaulted by her husband.  Judge Fuller was involved in the controversial case against former Democratic governor, Don Sieglman.  Judge Fuller was appointed to the bench by President George W. Bush in 2002.

    If you were freaking out... (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 02:51:52 PM EST
    about the threat of pot brownies in the home with children, you must hysterical over the laundry detergent pods.  

    Everybody panic...these appetizing looking poison pellets are sold without a prescription or ID requirement in all 50 states!  Sen. Chucky Schumer is drafting legislation while on vacation and calling on Congress to have an emergency session.

    Yeah and those stupid soap thingies (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by fishcamp on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:02:11 PM EST
    don't even work in my dishwasher.  Of course it took me way long to realize I needed the liquid soap but the ants let me know something was wrong.  As far as I can tell we have five sizes of ants and when it rains they all come inside.  I've got heavy duty bug stuff but it's still a jungle down here.  91 degrees today and the fish are 30 miles off shore.  

    You should be able to fix the ant prob (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:22:16 PM EST
    without heavy duty bug stuff. I used a natural flea spray around my base boards along with eucalyptus oil. I also mop the kitchen with a vinegar/water/lemon mix. Not sure which it was, but my over run with ants everyday kitchen hasn't seen an  ant in 4 years now. And I still have them in the yard, so it's not like they left town :) They used to come in from several places, so I also sprayed the flea/eucalyptus mix around the outside foundation at the back/back sides of the house.

    Also, any one of the things I used absorb into the wood baseboards (I think I did the cupboards also) so it's a lasting solution.


    I read that lemon/eucalyptus oil is a natural (none / 0) (#12)
    by Angel on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:29:49 PM EST
    repellent for mosquitoes.

    Lemon is supposed to be good for spiders also (none / 0) (#14)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:32:03 PM EST
    which I am going to try since I am overrun with those ATM :) Oils are good for looks of pests, you just need to read up on them and make sure they are safe for pets etc :)

    thanx stray... (none / 0) (#114)
    by fishcamp on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:21:32 PM EST
    Epic offshore fishing in SoCal this summer. (none / 0) (#8)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:10:01 PM EST
    Yes I've heard that suo, (none / 0) (#11)
    by fishcamp on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:22:32 PM EST
    did you ever catch that Corvina on fly?  

    Kids, house, work, travel, etc.

    Maybe this weekend I'll get a chance.


    Your boys are old enough. (none / 0) (#72)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:50:29 PM EST
    Make them a list of specific chores you want done, and tell them you want it all completed by the time you get home from fishing.



    My plumber told me to not use those things (none / 0) (#13)
    by Angel on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:29:52 PM EST
    because they clog up the drain.

    Big fish (none / 0) (#76)
    by desertswine on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 09:55:12 PM EST
    in the big apple.  Whale actually. Crazy huh.

    That's no whale... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by unitron on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 02:36:40 AM EST
    ...that's just Trump's ego.

    Maureen Dowd (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:12:44 PM EST
    has a new assignment  as a "narrative journalist" with the NYT Magazine.  Don't know if that has anything to do with her infamous piece of the high-minded getting high in Denver, or if her trek up that  mountain influenced Schumer.   And, don't know what a narrative journalist is, but it sounds a lot like vice-president- in -charge of looking out the window.  But, fans, relax, Ms. Dowd will continue with one column a week, on Sunday.  On Sundays she gets brownies and milk.

    "Narrative journalist" (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:18:20 PM EST
    is probably in preparation for covering the Clinton campaign. You can say anything you want as long as it's about the Clintons.

    Especially if it's snarky and deragatory. (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Angel on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:28:07 PM EST
    Don't Give the.... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:16:27 PM EST
    ...'the children, oh the children' crowd even more to freak out on.

    They will shovel fast and processed food down their kids throats while they play video games 8 hours a day, so scared of germs their kids are becoming allergic to everything, but those colorful soap pucks are the GD devil.  Ditto for weeds that grow in ditches...

    A guy was complaining last week at work that his kid couldn't read an analog clock because the school replaced them with digital ones, I just wanted to slap his 'big government is the GS devil' a$$.


    Wonder if that guy... (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:59:15 PM EST
    even considered teaching his kid to read a clock himself...speaking of outsourcing parental responsibility.  

    I'd give 4 top 1 odds he didn't (none / 0) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:51:13 PM EST
    ScottW714 - (none / 0) (#90)
    by Angel on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:22:37 AM EST
    Yeah, That Was on Every News Station... (none / 0) (#93)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 01:38:17 PM EST

    I feel like this is a trap, but what the he11...

    It's no secret that I dislike kids in general, or rather their no-sense parents who have convinced themselves their child raising duties include taking their kids to everyplace they go, regardless of the appropriateness.  And to hell with anyone who doesn't appreciate their screaming and undisciplined brats raising hell where ever they go.

    And the worse part, is these parents somehow manage to put themselves in a comatose where even screaming babies and their kids running amok somehow warrants absolutely no action beyond yelling 'stop it' over and over.

    There is only one place I haven't seen a kid, the nudie bar, I don't go often, but I guarantee, some jack@ss has brought a kid to every single nudie bar in town, whether they were allowed or not.  I see kids running around at the bar, at the gym, upscale restaurants, and they drive me craZy.

    I leave my dog at home, please do the same and for the record, my dog listens to me.

    Granted most parents are respectful and sensitive to others needs, but clearly there are enough who aren't, like the lady in the story, that if I see kids I turn around.

    What baffles me is why this lady would go to a place without a changing table, WTF, are some parents so far out there, it never occurs to them to ask, or to go see, they just figure these aholes don't have a changing station, so I will do it right in the middle of everyone's meal to show them, or worse, that here kids sh1t doesn't stink.

    What is the though process of not leaving, or believing that you can control 3 kids at a restaurant by yourself, but she is not alone.  

    OK, end of rant and for parents who are respectful and courteous of others needs, thanks for leaving the brats at home where they belong when you go to grown folks places.  It is much appreciated.


    My kids are now 40-somethings and I doubt (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by oculus on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 03:59:37 PM EST
    we personally irritated you. But your rant did cause me a pang of remorse for past violations.

    Not a trap, just genuinely interested in your (none / 0) (#94)
    by Angel on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 02:00:49 PM EST
    thoughts based on your other comment.  I'm with you when it comes to irresponsible parents, believe me.  Mr. Angel and I witnessed a similar incident a few years ago when a woman changed her child's diaper ON TOP OF THE TABLE!!!  And this place had nice, clean restrooms.  She did it as though changing a dirty diaper on top of a table where others would be eating was the most natural thing in the world.  We beat a hasty retreat from that place and haven't returned since.

    That same woman would prob throw (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by nycstray on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 05:38:03 PM EST
    a hissy fit if I came in with a dog. Think of the GERMS!!! :)

    I Didn't Mean a Trap... (none / 0) (#99)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 03:24:35 PM EST
    ...by you, but there are a lot of momma and grand-momma bears here and I felt like honestly would bring out some natural protection instincts.

    I guess I'm just an old-school (5.00 / 4) (#100)
    by Anne on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 03:55:42 PM EST
    mama/grandmama, in that I don't think that just because I want to do something, I should do it, and if it goes sideways, everyone around me should just suck it.

    What I see a lot of is parents who don't want to change anything about their lives or lifestyles once they have children; they don't consider that a 2-year old can't sit still and be quiet long enough for his or her parents to eat in a fine-dining establishment.  They don't think about the fact that dragging Junior around and allowing him to get overtired and hungry to the point where he has a meltdown in the mall isn't okay just because Mon wants to go shopping.

    Even when parents do all the right things, little children just aren't reliable enough that their good behavior can be counted on just because that's how we insist they are to act.  I can't tell you the number of stores I took my kids out of because they started to fall apart - that's not fun for me, it's not fun for the kid, and there's no reason to subject everyone else to it, either.

    Babies cry.  Toddlers have tantrums.  Little kids can be mouthy.  You have to know your kids and you have to be age-appropriate in your expectations.  But you also have to know, always, that not everyone loves your kids.  Especially when people are trying to have lunch and a conversation, or trying to think without their eardrums splitting from the kid shrieking on the floor while Mom chats or texts on her phone.

    Changing a diaper on the table?  About 25 kinds of rude.  These are probably the same people who pick their teeth at the table, too.  

    Some people just have no manners.  And you can't teach 'em if you don't have 'em.  


    Besides rude (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by jbindc on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 04:30:53 PM EST
    Think of the potential public health issues!

    Would this woman object if the old person sitting next to her decided to change his Depends?


    baby on a leash (none / 0) (#105)
    by ZtoA on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 06:08:18 PM EST
    Funny. (none / 0) (#106)
    by oculus on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 06:17:40 PM EST
    I thought today's topic here would be (none / 0) (#107)
    by oculus on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 06:19:54 PM EST
    couple who fatally fell while taking a selfie. There 5 and 6 yr.-old kids were ok.

    If a monkey can do it (none / 0) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:43:13 PM EST
    And you kill yourself trying it might be a Darwinian thing

    Ok (none / 0) (#185)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 04:07:55 PM EST
    A Polish couple died after plunging down a cliff in west Portugal while attempting to take a photo of themselves. Note: The people seen in the photo are not the deceased couple.

    Oh, (none / 0) (#194)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 06:55:17 PM EST
    I can top this. At one point in time I worked part time at Macy's during Christmas and we would have these one day sales which I believe they still have and would be open until 11:00. Well, darn if there were not women shopping in Macy's at 10:30 at night with preschoolers and then to top that off their children were wandering around the store by themselves!!! I could not believe it. Several of them came up to me and said I don't know where my mother is and we had a protocol where we took them to the switchboard and the parent would be paged to come and get them.

    I hated shopping with my children because even going to the grocery store was a chore with them in tow. No, not a chore an NIGHTMARE. They would jump out of the carts and start running. So instead of shopping I was spending my time chasing them down constantly. And don't get the cart too close to the merchandise. I have come home with some strange things they threw in my cart and I didn't realize it.

    As far as restauarants I was like most single people here. I worked all day and when I went out to eat the last thing I wanted to hear was someone's screaming baby. I even made a comment to my dad one time about it and he said well, I guess they can afford to go out to eat with the kids but can't afford to go out to eat and pay a sitter. Anyway, I swore I would never do that to people. So when I had small children I went to places like Shoney's where nobody would notice another screaming child or we would stop at McDonald's if we were traveling so they could run around.


    I like children (none / 0) (#198)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 07:16:32 PM EST
    I do.  It's parents I can't stand.   I have no problem sitting near a child in a restaurant.   Even a noisy one.  What I hate is the screaming tantrums.  
    I only know this,  if I had done that as a child I would literally gave been knocked into the middle of next week.   And no one would have suggested arresting my parents for doing it.

    Say what you want about the bad old days of corporal punishment, restaurants were quieter


    Back in 1986, when I was a waiter ... (none / 0) (#151)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 01:10:31 PM EST
    ... at this rather posh Italian restaurant, the owner had some friends who used to come in at least every other week with their two boys, who were ages 5 and 6 at the time. And they'd usually enter between 8:00 - 9:00 p.m., which I've always thought was rather odd for people with kids that age. I soon came to loathe their arrival and presence.

    Anyway, they'd sit down at their favorite table in a corner of the establishment, and the owner (and sometimes his girlfriend) would join them with a bottle of wine. In the meantime, these two wholly undisciplined kids were literally given carte blanche to run around the place, and so they did -- into the restrooms, the kitchen, the bar, and in and around the dining area. Other patrons would repeatedly complain to the owner, but to no avail, so they'd end up leaving.

    One night, the two little hellions ran into a fellow waiter who had exited the kitchen carrying a full tray of food, which caused her to lose her balance and fall into a table. Nobody was hurt, but the mess was quite considerable. Further, the younger boy -- clearly frightened by the incident -- started to cry, which led his mother to approach and start to berate my co-worker, why didn't she watch where she was going, she could've hurt him, etc.

    My co-worker -- half-covered with marinara and clam sauce -- just looked at this angry woman with this most incredulous look on her face, as though she was stunned to be hearing what she was hearing.

    Then she simply erupted in turn, shouting down the mother and causing her to retreat back to her table. My co-worker followed her, loudly chastising both her and her husband for their own selfishness and irresponsibility. What were they thinking, that the restaurant staff was somehow supposed to babysit their two "phuquing little brats" -- I can still her say those two words -- while they pointedly ignored the commotion their kids caused, and enjoyed a leisurely meal and visit with their friend the owner at the expense of everyone else around them?

    When the owner tried to intervene, she just as quickly turned on him, too, dressing him down for being so oblivious and inattentive to the needs of his other guests and even his own staff that he would repeatedly allow his friends to turn an entire evening into a collectively miserable experience for everyone in the place.

    When he sought to cut her off by telling her to clean up the mess, she ripped off her apron and literally threw it in his face, called him and his friends a bunch of [rectal cavities] and told them that they could clean it up themselves since it was actually their fault, because she quit. As she stormed off the floor and into the back to get her things and leave, the other patrons in the restaurant stood up and gave her an ovation. Clearly embarrassed and his face beet-red, the owner turned on me and snarled at me to clean it all up.

    I only wish that I would've only summoned up the courage to likewise tell those clowns off. Instead, I meekly did as I was told, and cleaned up the mess. But the following day, I went out and quickly found myself another position at another establishment, and then returned that night to quit myself. I've since wondered how many customers and staff he lost because of his loyalty to his friends took precedence over his own long-term business interests.



    ScottW (none / 0) (#187)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 04:22:31 PM EST
    Oh my god.  I so agree.

    You wouldn't be so snarky about it (none / 0) (#15)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:33:21 PM EST
    if your toddler ate one, thinking it was candy, and ended up in the hospital - or dead - would you?

    Here's Consumer Reports:

    We first warned of the dangers of detergent pods in May 2012, when there had been about 700 reports to poison-control centers regarding young children. Nearly 6,300 exposures occurred in 2012 compared with more than 7,800 exposures for all conventional detergents in 2011 (last year's totals are not yet available for those cleaners).

    Pod detergents have just 6 percent market share, according to SymphonyIRI Group. Why then the disproportionate number of pod exposures? As the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has noted, "Children might be attracted to pods because their colorful appearance and size are similar to candy." (A Tide Pod is shown below.)

    A further concern was the types of symptoms pod exposures were causing. Swallowing conventional detergent might result in mild stomach upset, but with highly concentrated detergent pods the ingestion can cause excessive vomiting, lethargy, and gasping. In some reported cases, victims stopped breathing and required ventilation support.

    Late last year, we urged consumers with young children to keep detergent pods locked up and out of reach. We also called on the Consumer Product Safety Commission to investigate pods and consider stricter regulations. And we asked manufacturers to improve the safety of these products. Procter & Gamble had already said it was replacing the single-latch cover used on some its containers with a double-latch version, designed to make the packages tougher to open.

    Some days, I just really don't get you, kdog.  Perhaps we should eliminate the CPSC, the USDA and the FDA and just take up laughing at people who don't want to be harmed by faulty products or contaminated food and drugs.  

    Because, well - freedom!



    Oh Anne... (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 11:28:22 AM EST
    ...my parents are plenty snarky about the time me, my bro, and a couple cousins were rushed off to the emergency ward because we ate poison berries.

    It's especially funny because we made the front page of the Sheboygan paper, 5 small kids with giant stainless steel bowls getting ready to puke the berries out.

    I can't go to a family gathering without someone being snarky about it, usually many snarky comments and someone always whips out the picture and we laugh, because it's fricken hilarious.

    If people don't like dangerous and colorful poisons in their homes, they should not buy them.  Surely parents don't believe because it's pretty and in a store it's safe.

    These parent and their whining about TV, video games, or some consumer product that isn't 10000000% safe for kids, too lost to realize they are in control, not the GD kids.  Saying 'no' worked for generations, why is that now snark for kids not listening, "Oh when I tell them 'no' he just does the opposite, hardy har har."

    Pods are not defective, they do what they are suppose to do and are we really at the point where the government needs to make things look less pretty because parents don't have the time to parent and read labels or think about what they are buying for more than a nano-second.

    Not one person addressed the obvious, parents with toddlers should not buy shiny poisons and leaving them places where their toddlers can get them.  It's always someone else's fault...


    My vet (none / 0) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:38:59 PM EST
    put up her facebook page about how bad these things are for animals.

    So in other words if you have them put them up where your animals can't get to them or if you have toddlers (I could keep my oldest son out of exactly nothing) maybe you should not buy them. It's not like you can't do laundry the old fashioned way where you actually scoop out the powder.

    I have never bought them simply due to the fact that your cost per load rises significantly.


    My grandson is now 20-months old, (none / 0) (#21)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:54:33 PM EST
    and he is into everything, and is afraid of nothing.  And, he's newly defiant and independent, so "no" doesn't work well anymore, except as a neon sign that says, "oh, go ahead - you know you want to!"  You can't not watch him for a minute, because of the uncanny ability kids in his age group have to find the most dangerous thing in any room and go after it.

    It's like anything else: you have to think like a toddler and take protective steps in anticipation, so no question anything like detergent pods would be out of sight and reach.  Along with a lot of other things!

    It's a challenge, for sure, and kdog's mockery was uncalled for, in my opinion.


    I agree with you. (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:47:12 PM EST
    Younger Daughter was fascinated by electrical cords and wall outlets as a toddler. Elder Daughter loved to open drawers and closets and get into them. We child-proofed accordingly.

    There are still three wall outlets in the office / spare bedroom that are child-proofed against inquisitive toddlers, because I never got around to changing them back. And at this point, I'm inclined to leave them as is, in anticipation of my own grandchildren in the near future.



    Oh, yes (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:27:09 PM EST
    I called it whatcha gonna do about it b*tch look on their face. Oh, don't throw the lamp---crash.

    And then once they get out of that stage like mine are now they fight with each other (I have two boys)  and break the lamps.


    The powder detergent... (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:56:22 PM EST
    Looks like blue raspberry pixie sticks candy...that's not safe either.  Maybe a washboard and bar of Ivory is the way to go...forego the washing machine (child could climb in and suffocate) and detergents (toxic) all together.

    Or, the parents could actually (none / 0) (#44)
    by Angel on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:03:09 PM EST
    Forget child proofing bottles... (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:08:26 PM EST
    We need to child proof reproduction...the final solution! ;)

    Hopefully, you didn't pick up that line ... (none / 0) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 08:58:58 PM EST
    ... from your own parents.

    The kind (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:28:48 PM EST
    i have does definitely not look like pixie stick filling that's for sure. Neither one of my mischeivous children has been the least bit interested in eating laundry detergent. Dumping it on the floor and throwing it around yeah but then maybe they tasted a little bit of it one time. I know I ate Ivory soap one time as a child. And I only ate it one time for sure.

    Beg your pardon? (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:01:12 PM EST
    I was poking fun at those who think the government can parent for them, not the poor kid who ate the detergent.

    One latch, two latch, blue color or other color...it's a parent's job to keep household chemicals out of the reach of their children...bottom line.  


    Can't wait til you have kids! (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:12:46 PM EST
    My two-yr. old scaled the kitchen counter and grabbed and ingested the baby aspirin on the top shel. My back was turned but she was w/i arm's length of me. Very quick.

    You mean you let her... (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:38:20 PM EST
    off the leash! ;)

    Fear not...Schumer's got that problem on his agenda too, studying mandatory ankle weights till age 8 to discourage counter climbing and associated dangers.


    The leash was very long. But I never thought of us (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:55:23 PM EST
    My two year old (none / 0) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:30:25 PM EST
    did the same. Did not get the baby asprin but got in the cabinets and on top of the refrigerator. If I did not bolt him down directly in the car seat as soon as i got in the car, he would escape and climb on the roof of the car just out of reach to where I could get to him. My neighbors thought this was hillarious. I did not think so. Then my other child locked me out of the house and I could see him through the french doors in the back heading to the medicine cabinet. so i went in the garage and broke down the door from the garage to the house.

    ... a toddler, I used to love to hide from everyone, and I was really good at it. And by that, she meant I was really good at it. She said that I used to drive our mother to distraction and near tears. And one time, I hid from my father one morning while we were stationed at Camp Pendleton. He actually had his enlisted men out looking for me.

    Of course, I don't remember any of that, but I'm quite sure that I probably had a good time. No doubt, such experiences prepared me for my party days in college, most of which I similarly don't remember -- but no doubt, I always had a good time.



    I used to like (none / 0) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:40:32 PM EST
    to cook but honestly I think I am getting weary of it. 20 years of cooking for children has worn me out. It's gotten so bad that the youngest son, the picky eater, has asked me to please try some new recipes. LOL.

    Thyroid meds need to increased apparently.

    Well, our friends at the CIA are at it again... (none / 0) (#19)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 03:46:08 PM EST
    The U.S. government has begun to funnel weapons directly to Kurdish forces fighting Islamist militants in northern Iraq, deepening U.S. involvement in a conflict that the Obama administration had long sought to avoid.

    The arms pipeline, which one former U.S. military official described as a trickle, opened in recent days as the Kurds' pesh merga fighters have struggled to stem advances by Islamic State forces that have swept across northern Iraq.

    The weapons are being supplied by the CIA, according to two U.S. officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the Obama administration has not publicly acknowledged the spy agency's involvement.


    Yeah, because now that we know the CIA's in the mix, we can all relax, right?

    But I heard on NPR that this (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:20:34 PM EST
    is a switch from previously funneling them through the Iraqi government...and having them get take by ISIS. So can I cling to some small hope that this is an improvement?

    Don't worry. Be Happy. (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by lentinel on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 04:00:34 AM EST
    The President has said:

    "I will not allow the United States to be dragged into fighting another war in Iraq."

    Every time I feel a little bit dragged into the war in Iraq these days, CIA involvement, jets flying from "The Bush" (you can't make that sh!t up)  I reread that comforting assurance from our flummoxed leader.


    U.S. ground troops may be used in Iraq. (none / 0) (#150)
    by caseyOR on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 12:54:05 PM EST
    So says a U.S. spokesperson.

    The rationale is the rescue of the refugees, but I seriously doubt that once ground troops are there they will be used in such a limited way. Someone is sure to fire on these troops, probably hit one or two or three. Maybe kill some, which will then necessitate a response from the U.S.

    "What he's ruled out is reintroducing U.S. forces into combat on the ground in Iraq," Mr. Rhodes said. He added, using an alternative name for the militant group, that the deployment of ground troops to assist a rescue was "different than reintroducing U.S. forces in a combat role to take the fight to ISIL."

    He acknowledged that any ground troops in Iraq would face dangers, even if they were there to help the refugees find a safe way off the mountain. He said that like American forces anywhere, the troops would have the ability to defend themselves if they came under fire.

    And so it goes.


    Yes Angel but that's when (none / 0) (#23)
    by fishcamp on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:08:28 PM EST
    the ants march in and the ants march out,  the ants play pinochle on your snout.

    Hillary-The LBJ comparison (none / 0) (#30)
    by Politalkix on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:29:26 PM EST
    I wonder how often this happens: (none / 0) (#33)
    by Angel on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:41:18 PM EST
    Travis County District Court Judge David Crain declared a mistrial in the criminal case against Mark Fruge because there were not enough jurors that both parties found suitable.

    The trial has been rescheduled for Oct. 13.

    Crain told prospective jurors that there were several people who were supposed to show up for jury duty but didn't, and that after others were dismissed for various reasons, there weren't enough remaining that both the prosecutor and the defense attorney agreed to allow on the jury.

    Sounds like (none / 0) (#39)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:56:01 PM EST
    The judge needs to dispatch some sheriff's deputies out to pick up those people who didn't bother to show up and make sure they get the chance to be picked for another jury.

    That happened in downtown L A a few years (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 04:58:11 PM EST
    ago. The marshals went across the street to Kendall's Brasserie and shanghaied some folks.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#43)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:02:15 PM EST
    When I worked for a judge, we had a sworn juror (young guy - about 19) who never came back from lunch.  The judge sent the deputy to his house and his butt was back in the jury pool for the next three days. (He should have stayed on the jury - it was a one day trial).

    Crony Capitalism (none / 0) (#47)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:18:55 PM EST
    If you need a definition for the term then look no farther...

    Red Wings New publicly financed stadium

    I mean seriously.  This is a bipartisan effort to screw over the taxpayer.

    This is what happens when you let government control too much.  

    How could anyone argue with a straight face that this will benefit the city of Detroit.   In most cities this can be written off as a luxury tax or some sort of justifiable public expense.  

    However Detroit is flat broke and while pensions are cut and services reigned in they are going to pile on 30 years of debt to build a stadium for a privately held company?  


    You might want to read (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:26:42 PM EST
    Something other than a conservative blog to get your news.



    First of all it's libertarian (none / 0) (#51)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:31:54 PM EST
    Big difference.

    Second of all what part of this don't I understand...?

    he arena will be 58% publicly financed and 42% privately financed.

    Detroit if flat broke.   So broke that it can't meet it's pension obligations and provide basic public services.

    The idea that a single cent would be used on the White Elephant that is public stadiums shows you how broken the state/city government of Detroit and Michigan are.

    Again, unbelievable.


    Best line of your link (none / 0) (#55)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:43:32 PM EST
    "Its public financing is coming from state taxpayers and local property taxes. The arrangement is complex, and it's important to note that no city of Detroit general fund money is involved."

    That's a fancy way of saying...."You're screwed"

    The idea that a paper of Detroit would do so little to inform the local reader of the screw job coming or how these stadiums never pay off just shows that the fix is in.


    You may be right (none / 0) (#56)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:48:18 PM EST
    But please note that this isn't going to be just a stadium, but a retail and office space, which is projected to bring a stream of revenue - so it just isn't temporary construction jobs and then low end service jobs.

    You might, however, want to educate yourself more on Mike Illitch and his company.  He's been a pretty successful businessman, who is actually very passionate about the City of Detroit and its success, so this isn't some corporate behemoth who lives far away and is just putting their name on the stadium.


    That makes it worse (none / 0) (#77)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 10:15:52 PM EST
    He should know more then anyone that money that could go towards the local schools and turning on the street lights should not be going to yet another stadium.

    Didn't they just build the Lions and Tigers stadiums a decade ago?  What happened after that?

    Oh yeah, the city filed for bankruptcy.

    I'm sure those two stadiums were sold on a message of urban renewal and bringing life to downtown, blah,blah, blah.  

    The supposed developments don't happen now by the way.  They might never happen because Mr. Billionaire won't throw good money after bad without funding from the city.

    Maybe I'm wrong and this will all work out for the best.

    But History says I'm not.


    Deadspin (none / 0) (#78)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 10:25:03 PM EST

    What do you know.   This will be the 2nd stadium taxpayers helped Mr. Ilitch pay for.

    I suppose his $3.2 billion net worth is tied up right now.  If it was a good investment he wouldn't need the help of taxpayers.

    These deals always stink in the long run.

    I'm all for people getting rich.  I just think it sucks when government helps well connected rich guys get richer off the backs of taxpayers.   I assure you Mr. Ill itch won't loose a dime off this deal.


    Stopped clocks (none / 0) (#79)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 10:57:49 PM EST
    I totally agree about public financing of sports stadiums (stadia?)

    L.A. has no NFL team and we don't care, and more specfically do not want public money used to finance the buidling of a new stadium or tax breaks that would be needed to lure a team here.

    I am a fan of the NFL but that is not necessarily a good thing.  This public payola for billionaires and the concussion scandal may save me from myself.


    Mike Illitich (none / 0) (#95)
    by jbindc on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 02:29:13 PM EST
    is investing $200 million of his own money, so your comment:

    I suppose his $3.2 billion net worth is tied up right now.

    Once again shows you don't know what you're talking about.

    This project is also expected to get rid of some of the blight downtown, which, hey, will attract more visitors and more busineses, thereby increasing tax revenue and provide jobs.

    The investment, expected to transform downtown, will include "tens of millions of dollars in public infrastructure improvements" such as lighting, sidewalks, green spaces and streets concurrently with arena construction, according to a press release.

    Ilitch's private investment of at least $200M for new, mixed-use development is expected to help transform dozens of blighted blocks into five new neighborhoods.

    The project, expected to be completed in the summer of 2017, is expected to generate at least $1.8 billion in total economic impact, 8,300 construction and construction-related jobs and 1,100 permanent jobs.

    Our point is... (none / 0) (#96)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 02:50:14 PM EST
    those "estimates" never come to fruition...I've heard about the "expected" revitalization of Detroit's downtown before...to quote John Fogerty, "Someday Never Comes". Comerica Park, Ford Field, and now another one?  While people have their access to drinking water shut off?  It's insane.

    America Has a Stadium Problem


    Maybe (none / 0) (#97)
    by jbindc on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 02:51:44 PM EST
    But then again, how will Detroit jump back when those very blocks are basically sh!t holes where no one lives and no one wants to invest?  

    I guess we should just leave it alone and not try and make it better.


    And as for the water shut-offs (none / 0) (#98)
    by jbindc on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 03:07:38 PM EST
    Around 60% customers who had their water shut off already, have come in and already paid their delinquent bills. In other words - just the threat of shutting off the water prompts people to pay.

    The mayor has put forth a plan to help those who truly can't pay - with financial assistance and payment plans, but there are also those customers (and yes, corporate customers too) who just refuse to pay or refust to try and even get help.

    Look - this isn't a be-all end all to the problems (it's not just a stadium, remember - it's an entire business and residential area, unlike say, Citi Field.) But again, at least the person in charge of this is not some out-of-town investor, just interested in $$, but someone who is from the city and tries to make every decision something that will benefit the city because he's passionate about it.


    Of course, Detroit's not using general funds. (none / 0) (#81)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 03:36:15 AM EST
    Governments don't want to tie up their cash to build CIPs (capital improvement projects -- and yes, I realize that an arena / stadium is a stretch of that definition). Rather, one finances CIPs by floating general obligation bonds or special purpose revenue bonds. General funds are reserved for the operating budget.

    It's really not "a fancy way of saying you're screwed." But if one doesn't understand the difference between a government's operating budget and its capital budget -- which most people don't -- such a statement can be highly misleading.

    To be sure, the city of Detroit isn't spending its cash on a stadium. But the State of Michigan is likely incurring another long-term obligation to bondholders -- and that's not at all apparent to readers in that patronizing statement.



    Can't agree (none / 0) (#92)
    by Slado on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 01:28:21 PM EST
    What would that money be used for if not a stadium?

    City services.   Would one not think Detroit could use money right now?   Considering that 45% of their street lights don't work?  It takes way to long for the police to show up etc... etc...

    How ironic is it that me the conservative is on the other side of this issue with the likes of Dennis Kusinich and you are arguing for the blatant waste of public funds to help a rich billionaire that don't need it?

    Hiding behind economic charades is really just not logical.   It is standard procedure for politicians everywhere to hide the fact that tax revenue is going to be used to fund what should be a private venture.   Because the profits will go mostly to the private user as opposed to the residents of Detroit and Michigan.    That's what I never understand.   Promises are made that are never kept and the real bottom line is the private Billionaire owner gets the profit.  

    Much needed tax revenue (which there is a finite amount of) is going to be dumped into a stadium the city of Detroit doesn't need and could be completely paid for by the man who already got a stadium for the Tigers.

    There is no moral or economical justification for this unless everyone agrees that a fancy new stadium is more important then the services the city could use the money for.

    If that is the view of most people in Detroit then by all means.  Turn off the street lights and head to the stadium (if you can afford the parking and tickets, which most average residents of the city probably cannot.)

    Don't talk down to me like I'm missing something.  You are looking the other way while a rich fat cat gets the benefit of being well connected to city and state officials at the expense of taxpayers.  

    The city of Detroit declared bankruptcy this year.   They are now on the hook to fund 60% of a new stadium they don't need.   There is zero chance this arena will be cash flow positive for the taxpayer in the lifetime of this arena.  

    When they tear this place down the taxpayers of Detroit will still be paying for it.


    Bonds have to have specific purposes. (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 07:54:30 PM EST
    You should never use them to fund government operations. That's what Republican governors like New Jersey's Christie Todd Whitman and California's George Deukmejian and Pete Wilson resorted to when they sought to cut taxes by any means necessary, and those self-serving decisions eventually came back to bite their constituents, big time, in terms of debilitating debt and lower bond ratings.

    I can't believe... (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:32:36 PM EST
    that scam still works...can anyone point to any city that reaped the supposed windfall of a publicly financed stadium? I think every city that has done it has regretted it. The construction jobs are good and all, if union wages are being paid, but once it's built ya got bubkis except taxpayer liabilities and sh#t service jobs.

    If you can't finance your own office space, you have no business being in business. Corporate grifter shakedown with a government grifter assist.


    See my link below (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:36:56 PM EST
    Giants stadium was torn down and still not paid for.

    Then they built a Billion plus stadium next to it int he parking lot.

    Watch HBO real sports about the stadiums built for the Athens games.    Relics of a public trust broken.

    Brazil is going for a twofer.   World Cup and Olympics two years later.

    It will take 50 years to pay off those White Elephants.


    Saw that Real Sports... (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:58:08 PM EST
    South Africa too, for the World Cup. Shameful and sinful.

    Seattle did it right, as painful as it was to lose the beloved Supersonics, they refused to be shaken down by that scumb@g Bennett. There are much more important things that need paying for...ya just can't justify making the people pay a billionaire's freight.  People are paying for stadiums and arenas they can never afford to attend!


    ... the bonds on the long-since demolished Kingdome.

    I'd say Cloors Field (none / 0) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:59:01 PM EST
    comes close... 75% public (.1%) sales tax and 25 private. The Rockies contributed $53 million.

    It has attracted millions to down town and the resulting spending on food, etc.


    Close only counts... (none / 0) (#62)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 06:16:34 PM EST
    in horseshoes and hand grenades. Mr. Coors is on the dole.  If downtown wanna chip in, that's fine, but to bill the entire tax base for something that primarily benefits millionaires and billionaires is just wrong. Coors has plenty o dough to buy his own toys.

    When George W. Bush owned the Texas Rangers, (none / 0) (#48)
    by Angel on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:24:18 PM EST
    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 05:34:34 PM EST
    Doesn't matter the political party.

    White Elephant stadiums are a politicians wet dream.

    From Athens, to Brazil to NYC name your city, country or party and I'll show you a public stadium that was sold on the lie of "increased buisness" and crammed down the throats of the tax payer.

    This is not a new story.  


    What is so alarming about this one is it is being built in a city that filed for bankruptcy.


    My news is saying that Robin Williams has died (none / 0) (#60)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 06:05:39 PM EST
    Apparent suicide in his home. Info from corner's office :(

    Oh no.... (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by sj on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 06:55:39 PM EST
    RIP Robin, you've made me laugh and you've made me think. And you've made me think while I laugh.

    Sadly underrated dramatic chops.


    Uninformative link as it's breaking: (none / 0) (#61)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 06:07:41 PM EST
    The SF Chronicle says that (none / 0) (#63)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 06:17:00 PM EST
    Very sad (none / 0) (#64)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 06:36:45 PM EST
    for sure.

    I just started a new thread about it (none / 0) (#68)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 07:40:25 PM EST
    feel free to repost your comments there. I heard about it on the news driving home from the jail. All three networks (CNN, MSNBC, CNN and Fox) dropped their coverage of Iraq and ISIS like a hot potato,  turned to Robin Williams, and stayed on him. So sad.

    RIP - Na Nu Na Nu (none / 0) (#69)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 11, 2014 at 07:54:34 PM EST

    MD gun control ban (none / 0) (#103)
    by jbindc on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 05:03:32 PM EST
    held constitutional

    Sanity slowly returning?

    Meet Maryam Mirzakhani (none / 0) (#116)
    by Politalkix on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 11:03:40 PM EST
    Tea Party has GOP on a leash (none / 0) (#118)
    by Politalkix on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 06:22:46 AM EST
    on immigration issues. link

    How Owning a Car (none / 0) (#121)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 07:54:22 AM EST
    helps the working poor get ahead.

    About 7.5 million households in the 100 largest U.S. metropolitan areas don't have access to a privately owned vehicle, according to a 2011 study from the Brookings Institution. Roughly 60 percent of those households are low income, and about 60 percent are nonwhite. The vast majority have access to public transit.

    This March, the Urban Institute released a statistical analysis of federal data that found a link between car ownership and employment. Researchers took a look at federal data collected on two groups of low-income people who received housing vouchers in the 1990s and early 2000s.

    "The families who had cars were more likely to get access to high-quality neighborhoods--and they were more likely to get jobs if they didn't have jobs already, and keep jobs if they already had jobs, than those households who did not have cars," says Rolf Pendall, director of the Urban Institute's Metropolitan Housing and Communities Policy Center. Access to public transit was associated with keeping a job but not with getting one.

    It's unclear to what extent economic benefits outweigh the costs of car ownership--paying for the car, plus insurance, gas, car repairs, and so on. But in areas with little transit, having a car clearly helps. The suburbs are home to many low- and middle-income jobs that can be hard to reach without a car. Accessing these workplaces is at best time-consuming and at worst impossible for low-income residents of urban neighborhoods.

    Public transportation, even in and around big cities, doesn't help some aspects of the economy.

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 08:03:55 AM EST
    I can tell you at least here in the Atlanta area a lot of jobs say must have own transportation. There are a few that will advertise they are on the Marta line but Marta does not go everywhere. So it also would seem that unless you have a system similar to NYC yeah, you are pretty much shut out of a lot of jobs without a car.

    The woman in the article (none / 0) (#123)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 08:27:29 AM EST
    lives outside of DC. Lots of jobs here too list "Must have reliable transportation."

    Read my comment (none / 0) (#126)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 08:54:34 AM EST
    You don't always need 60.

    Please educate yourself on 8th grade civics.

    You need 60 if it's going to go (none / 0) (#127)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 09:11:22 AM EST
    up for a vote.

    In 1975, the Democratic Senate majority, having achieved a net gain of four seats in the 1974 Senate elections to a strength of 61 (with an additional Independent caucusing with them for a total of 62), reduced the necessary supermajority to three-fifths (60 out of 100).[11] However, as a compromise to those who were against the revision, the new rule also changed the requirement for determining the number of votes needed for a cloture motion's passage from those Senators "present and voting" to those Senators "duly chosen and sworn". Thus, 60 votes for cloture would be necessary regardless of whether every Senator voted. The only time a lesser number would become acceptable is when a Senate seat is vacant. For example, if there were two vacancies in the Senate, thereby making 98 Senators "duly chosen and sworn", it would only take 59 votes for a cloture motion to pass.[9]

    Those occasions when 60 votes aren't needed are very rare, according to the Wiki.

    Thanks for removing all doubt about your understanding of American politics with your remarks here.


    Um (none / 0) (#131)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 10:14:52 AM EST
    Since Al Franken wasn't sworn, there were only 99 "duly chosen and sworn Senators".

    And since I posted, you know, the actual Senate Rules above (while you give me Wiki).

    But thanks for proving that you can't think beyond 8th grade.


    "the Knick" (none / 0) (#129)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 10:02:47 AM EST
    anyone else catch the pilot? Pretty gruesome, but good. Clive Owen rules!

    Yes! (none / 0) (#135)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 11:12:20 AM EST
    The first episode (none / 0) (#155)
    by KeysDan on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 01:34:12 PM EST
    was very good foreshadowing what I hope will be a great series.  Saving lives while discounting life is a really interesting juxtaposition.  And, all under gaslight.   The key characters introduced, so far, are flawed and fun in an " American Beauty" sort of way.

    The Irish nun breaks  pious stereotypes with breaks for smokes and trades in zingers with the workmen ( you guys mugs are more responsible for virgins than chastity belts).

     Nurse Lucy, who was told by Dr. Thadckery to return to Kentucky on the donkey cart she arrived on,  is already showing she is more suited to a motor car, or horseless carriage.  Dr.Algernon Edwards just entered the story and will surely layer with medical practice intrigue the storyline (apparently based on the historical figure of William Halsted).

    The portrayal of the fin de siecle period in medicine is fascinating as is the depictions of old New York City.  So far, so good.  I am staying tuned.


    It's very (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 06:19:31 PM EST
    Soderbergh.  I saw echos of Bubble, Solaris, Contagion and other great Soderbergh projects.
    I like Clive but for me he is icing on the cupcake.

    MoDo (none / 0) (#142)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 12:00:30 PM EST
    When doesn't she think of Hillary?

    Yup, getting started on that new 'narrative' job a little early.

    Perhaps ... the "narrative journalist" (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by christinep on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 12:37:04 PM EST
    assignment really means being put out to pasture in search of nothing much.  OTOH, even there she will "discover" a Clinton analogy.  For Mo, it is always the same shtick.

    So many things wrong with that column (none / 0) (#144)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 12:01:24 PM EST
    Now we know what (none / 0) (#158)
    by KeysDan on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 01:53:12 PM EST
    "narrative journalism" is,   I think.   Stitching together dissimilar and disassociated opinions into an unreadable crazy quilt.  A recollection with Robin Williams, a tribute to a deceased colleague, Michael Kelly, and Hillary Clinton's views on Syria and Iraq.  

    Streaming ... a latter-day James Joyce even :) (none / 0) (#164)
    by christinep on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 02:55:11 PM EST
    Mt. Sinjar (none / 0) (#190)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 05:20:05 PM EST
    Have you looked at this place on something like google earth?
    Strange place.  It looks flat for hundreds of miles in every direction with this one "mountain".  It looks like just about the most awful place imaginable to be trapped or stranded.

    Btw (none / 0) (#201)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 07:24:44 PM EST
    You can just type in Mt Sinjar into google earth.

    kdog (none / 0) (#202)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 14, 2014 at 07:54:03 AM EST
    RE: your "source" for "A black person is shot by cops et al every 24 hours in this country".

    It's not just that I question the source - I question the data,analysis, and interpretation

    In 10 minutes, I found a name on that list of a woman who was killed by a drunk driver (who happened to be an off-duty police officer), a guy who shot at police after beating a cop with a cane, and a woman who was trying to touch / play with a cop's gun at a party. If I had the time and inclination, I bet I could find the real facts behind all those names and whittle that list of "unarmed people killed for no reason" to much, much less, thereby completely obliterating the propaganda value of the report.

    Shame on Jezebel and a few other liberal sites I found while Googling for publishing it without checking.  Shoddy "journalism" at its best.

    You're better than that.

    this thread is now closed (none / 0) (#203)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Aug 14, 2014 at 10:41:26 PM EST