Sleeping In: Open Thread

I'm wiped out from my motions. Got the last one filed at 11:59 pm -- deadline was midnight. Then I read the 50 or so motions filed by lawyers for co-defendants. I doubt I'll be up before noon.

Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Sleeping in (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Lfrieling on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 08:25:41 AM EST
    Part of what makes Jeralyn the brilliant lawyer that she is shows in this post.  If days had 26 hours, she'd be at it 27 hours to help her clients.  Money alone cannot buy that kind of effort and dedication.  The underlying caring of the best lawyers for their clients is what separates those who stand out from those who are merely cogs on the wheel.  I wager that after sleeping until noon, Jeralyn will return to the keyboard and to helping add justice to the legal world we live in. Lenny

    Pretty sure this is a SITE VIOLATOR (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 08:40:47 AM EST
    not going to click to find out.

    But they leave reasonable comments.  Advise, drop the promotional carp and stick around


    Lenny is an excellent (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 03:59:41 PM EST
    criminal defense attorney and a long-time friend. In fact, it was Lenny who taught me html back in 1996 for my first website. It took five days. He is certainly not a spammer. I have no problem with criminal defense lawyers including links to their websites in their comments so long as they are in html format and don't skew the site. Lenny is very talented in a number of areas. He's also a past chair of Colorado NORML.

    (I posted this before but it ended up downthread so I'm reposting to end the discussion. Lenny is very welcome here.)


    Howdy, I left a comment in the (none / 0) (#4)
    by Anne on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 08:57:03 AM EST
    MoDo thread to let you know that Lenny is a criminal defense attorney in Colorado - I'm pretty sure he knows Jeralyn.

    Clicking on his link should assuage any concerns you have that he's spamming.


    As I responded before (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 09:06:32 AM EST
    Never seen promoting personal websites allowed here.  

    But whatever


    No offense or spamming intended (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Lfrieling on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 08:37:32 AM EST
    While I do "sign" my name, my intent is to reveal MORE about myself if and only if someone is interested, and while that exposure is not bad for me personally, it is the comment that is my true focus.  I am quite sorry that you took this differently.  I know that I have not posted in many years, and that I'm an unknown new guy.  I understand the sensitivity to this issue, and am personally tired of someone loving my site so much that they want to sell me aloe products.   Of course I will not comment again on this specific matter, since I do not want to waste anyones time.  I do enjoy sharing knowledge.  I also type fast and get on a tear.  I hope that you'll see me as a positive additional participant over time.  Jeralyn, thanks for the kind words.  Of course CapHowdy had no way of knowing who I am and what my perspective is.  I'll include none of that here.  Personally, I would like to shorten my posts;  a difficult task for someone who sees himself as a writer.

    Ha (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 09:12:42 AM EST
    I always saw you and a contributor of positive comments.  I think I said that almost every time I called you a spammer (heh)
    I am the one who is sorry.  But I got it now.   And I like your site.  I will visit regularly.  Again welcome.

    And don't worry everyone here is a writer.


    http://www.lfrieling.com/... (none / 0) (#25)
    by unitron on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 03:40:58 PM EST
    ...is the website of

    Leonard I. Frieling, P.C.
    Criminal Defense Attorney

    of Boulder, Colorado


    Lenny is an excellent (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 10:19:38 AM EST
    criminal defense attorney and a long-time friend. In fact, it was Lenny who taught me html back in 1996 for my first website. It took five days. He is certainly not a spammer. I have no problem with criminal defense lawyers including links to their websites in their comments so long as they are in html format and don't skew the site. Lenny is very talented in a number of areas. He's also a past chair of Colorado NORML.

    Terrific! Welcome Lenny (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 10:24:44 AM EST
    Thanks for the info

    Kara Walker: Sugar Baby (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 04:22:21 PM EST
    For those who are not able to see this fabulous piece in person here are some pictures..
    Creative Time is thrilled to present the first large-scale public project by Kara Walker, one of the most important artists of our era. Sited in the sprawling industrial relics of Brooklyn's legendary Domino Sugar Factory, Walker's physically and conceptually expansive installation responds to the building and its history. The exhibition is open through July 6, Fridays 4-8 pm, Saturdays and Sundays noon to 6.

    As is her custom, the artist has given this work a title that is at once poetic and descriptive:

    At the behest of Creative Time Kara E. Walker has confected:
    Kara Walker - A Subtlety
    or the Marvelous Sugar Baby
    an Homage to the unpaid and overworked Artisans who have refined our Sweet tastes from the cane fields to the Kitchens of the New World on the Occasion of the demolition of the Domino Sugar Refining Plant

    That is incredibly great (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by ZtoA on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 01:11:22 PM EST
    and inspiring!

    Yes (none / 0) (#56)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 02:41:53 PM EST
    A big important piece for her, not that she needs any more fame, as she is a star...  great artist, imo. and super piece.

    The thing about her work is (none / 0) (#61)
    by ZtoA on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 04:33:31 PM EST
    that it draws one in and is beautiful. One could just 'lick' the surface of her works but they lead one deeper and deeper.

    I was at the art institute of Chicago when the ConzalesTorres candy piece was casually being installed. Or replenished. It looked like the guards brought out several boxes of candy and dumped the candy in a corner. I know the intent and concept behind this piece, but it's just a bunch of candy in a corner on first blush. It didn't draw me in like her work always does. Her work is personal, like his, but then it magically opens up into vast and relevant histories. I want to know more about her meanings. She is a master of using a visual language to reveal universal truths that go way beyond contemporary theory.


    Yes (none / 0) (#58)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 03:28:10 PM EST
    More from WaPo:
    It's 35 feet high, and it took four tons of sugar to create. The installation closes July 6. Afterward, the refining plant will be torn down. (Medieval sugar sculptures were known as "subtleties.")

    Should you find yourself in New York this summer, one of the things that's been heralded as a must-see (and must-smell) is the mammoth sphinx sculpture artist Kara Walker has created in the Domino Sugar factory in Brooklyn. You'll probably wait for about 20 minutes; Walker's piece, free to view, is commanding lines that stretch around the block. But once inside, you'll find not just Walker's mammy sphinx but smaller, disintegrating sculptures crafted from resin and covered in molasses.

    She's doing what she does best: drawing you in with something sweet, something almost charming, before you realize you've admired something disturbing. In this case, that's the horror-riddled Caribbean slave trade that helped fuel the industrial gains of the 18th and 19th centuries; a slave trade built to profit from an insatiable Western market for refined sugar treats and rum.
    "Basically, it was blood sugar," Walker says. "Like we talk about blood diamonds today, there were pamphlets saying this sugar has blood on its hands."
    She explains that to make the sugar, the cane had to be fed into large mills by hand. It was a dangerous process: Slaves lost hands, arms, limbs and lives.
    "I've been kind of back and forth with my reverence for sugar," Walker says. "Like, how we're all kind of invested in its production without really realizing just what goes into it; how much chemistry goes into extracting whiteness from the sugar cane."

    Roberta Smith (none / 0) (#59)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 04:00:21 PM EST
    With her stinging, site-specific installation at the former Domino Sugar compound on the edge of the East River in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, Kara Walker expands her imposing achievement to include three dimensions and monumental scale. In the process, she raises the bar on an overused art-spectacle formula as well as her own work. And she subjects a grand, decaying structure fraught with the conflicted history of the sugar trade and its physical residue to a kind of predemolition purification ritual.

    Titled "A Subtlety, or the Marvelous Sugar Baby," the piece runs the gamut in its effects. Dominated by an enormous sugarcoated woman-sphinx with undeniably black features and wearing only an Aunt Jemima kerchief and earrings, it is beautiful, brazen and disturbing, and above all a densely layered statement that both indicts and pays tribute. It all but throws possible interpretations and inescapable meanings at you.

    and this:

    A final part of the web of meaning that Ms. Walker has woven around this resonant work can't help including a black first lady trying to get people to avoid sugar, and a black president whose skin color alone has brought this country's not-so-buried racism roaring back to furious, mindless life.



    For once (none / 0) (#60)
    by ZtoA on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 04:19:29 PM EST
    a wonderful, informing, deep review! (tho she is often so) The show is almost a reason to visit NYC. Lucky you living there!

    Yes (none / 0) (#62)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 04:37:14 PM EST
    This NYT Blake Gopnik review is also quite good..

    constitution Colorado vs municipal ordinances (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Lfrieling on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 09:02:04 AM EST
    Please bear with me as I learn to properly post to talkleft.  I'm concerned about WHERE I'm putting this, and fine with the relevance of the comment <G>

    I'm seeing a new problem developing in Colorado.  Marijuana rights guaranteed by the state constitution in Colorado are being abridged, beyond what is permitted by the Constitution, by municipalities.  While Colorado is the leading "home rule" state in the US, giving cities that chose the home rule option more power than cities in most states, I am concerned when, for example, the constitution permits more than 6 plants, privately, in certain situations, some towns, (Erie for example) think they can limit a household to 6 or 12 plants, regardless of the constitution.  Cities absolutely MAY BAN all of the various businesses related to growing and selling, but I believe they cannot say "you cannot use the state constitutional guarantees because we said so."  I think they are fine legally in policing outdoor odors, but not in invading the basement grow which conforms to constitutional mandates.  I know this is a legally tricky area, and hope to learn more about it.  I'll return to linking my name once I'm more comfortable that i'm posting to the right places.  Good day for playing guitar I hope.   Lenny

    I don't want to think (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 09:25:44 AM EST
    You stopped leaving your link because of me.

    The information in your comment is why I hang out here.


    thanks (none / 0) (#48)
    by Lfrieling on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 09:47:36 AM EST
    Thanks for the welcome.  I saw the positive tone of your concern, and the polite wording, and appreciated it.  I'll go back to linking my name to my site (again, kind words appreciated) when I'm more sure of how the blog works.  When I worked with Jeralyn on html some time ago <G> it was html 3, and I have not been a blogger.  I'll try not to step on my keyboard too many times.  Lenny

    Georgians saved from (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 03:08:00 PM EST
    alleged gun trader who stormed the Forsyth County Courthouse in Cummings, GA, by a man standing on the Courthouse steps who was carrying a gun.  Dennis Marx, who was due in Court on the same day (Fri. June 6), was armed with weapons and explosives.  It appeared that Marx was intending to take hostages.

    The man on the Courthouse steps engaged Marx in gun fire.   Marx was shot and killed.  Looks like that Georgia guns everywhere law earned its keep.

    Oh, wait.  The man on the steps was a Deputy Sheriff assigned to the Courthouse.  Never-mind.

    Josh is doing the GEMS program on (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 05:33:10 PM EST
    Post again this year.  Last year they did a week of studying robotics, this year it is a week of biochemistry based study.  Growing up nerdy smart in the South has its traumas because about half the science instructors are also deeply Christian.

    Josh said that today his instructor started out asking the class who first discovered America.  He said he was the only kid who wanted to answer the question and he said that the Vikings beat Columbus, but really the first people to discover the Americas were the native Indians.

    He said that his instructor said in sort of a bossy voice, "Oh yeah, how'd they do that?"  He said he froze in terror thinking that he had misjudged this instructor and now he had offended her religious beliefs or something.  He said that he couldn't respond at all because he felt so panicked.  But she smiled at him and said the land bridge remember? He said a huge gush of relief swept over him and all he could think to himself was it was going to be okay, she's not crazy.

    I can't tell you how much it pains me that (5.00 / 3) (#97)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 05:44:21 PM EST
    we've gotten to the point where kids actually have to think things like "it was going to be okay, she's not crazy."

    I mean, how inhibiting is it to learning, to exploring, if a kid has to wonder if his teacher is going to teach him that he or she can't think beyond whatever it is the Bible says or the creationists feel obligated to impose on young minds.

    I don't understand why people are afraid of knowledge - it's never made any sense to me.  And I may burn in hell for saying this, but I'm not sure I'd want to believe in any God that made me so fearful I didn't think I was allowed to think - really think, not just regurgitate parochial teachings.

    Just one of many things I probably will never understand, such is my lot in life.


    Keith Kilbey, Colorado State Patrol car hit hi? (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by Lfrieling on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 07:26:47 PM EST
    In January, Keith Kilbey rammed into two state patrol cars with their overhead lights ON.  The lead stories in all local press was "stoned driver hits patrol cars" and the like.  Pot only was blamed.  

    It turns out that Mr. Kilbey, who just entered a guilty plea, was in fact trashed.  ON ALCOHOL.  In Colorado, we have a legal limit for blood alcohol of 0.05,  Most states are 0.08  Mr. Kilbey came in at an impressive 0.268, or close to SIX TIMES the alcohol blood limit.  He was toasted, but blaming pot was a lot of crap.  In all fairness, pot and alcohol mixed in fact cause impairment at fairly low levels of each.  When taken together, "smoke cigarettes and watch Captn Kangaroo" but don't drive.  "Stoned Driver hits cop cars" made for sexy Colorado pot-scare headlines in print press and on TV.  When it turned out to be just another drunk hitting police cars with no injuries to any officers, the story fell off the face of the earth.

    Part of the legalization effort is this ongoing effort to stay current, and to be able to debunk the bunk on a day-to-day basis.  We really are trying to set a good example.  The press goes with whatever looks like the sexiest story.  Lenny

    "A lie can travel half way around the world (5.00 / 4) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 07:40:34 PM EST
    while the truth is putting on its shoes."

    - Mark Twain


    OK Go (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 08:13:34 PM EST
    This Too Shall Pass

    You'll like it.  Trust me.

    My nephew graduated high school last night (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:27:58 PM EST
    it was a great celebration, the kids and parents so happy!

    Today there has been another school shooting near Portland.

    Please tell me no one has suggested (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:35:39 PM EST
    that this is the reason we must arm the teachers.

    Congratulations to your nephew; it's a special time for family, isn't it?  Best of luck to him in his future endeavors.


    Not yet (none / 0) (#154)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:16:39 PM EST
    Right now it is breaking news. It is finals week for that school district. Wednesday is/was the last day of school. All the high schoolers in the Portland area seem to be connected by friendships in other schools. Two dead at this point in the reporting and one teacher wounded. Everyone is in shock.

    I don't know whether or (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by sj on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:39:32 PM EST
    not to "5" that comment or not.

    Congratulations to your nephew! Five worthy sentiment if there ever was one.

    But dang... school shootings...


    Congratulations! (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 03:04:19 PM EST
    Such a fun occasion. I never realized how much fun it was till my own nieces and nephews started graduating form HS and college. Enjoy!

    It was so much fun and I'm so proud (none / 0) (#174)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 03:36:29 PM EST
    I'm an avid aunt. My nieces and nephew grew up a block away and have been fixtures at my place being like siblings with my daughter. They were all such fiery little kids. Now they all tower over me (my nephew is now well over 6'6") and still love to horse around. Since he is now a black belt he has to be gentle with the others. I've sparred with him (I like martial arts and have been a huge supporter/encourager of his training) and there's no messing with him.  

    Halftime NBA Commercial (5.00 / 3) (#176)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 03:45:00 PM EST
    the other night got little attention and I wasn't sure why. Until today when I saw it only played in Miami. Tomight it hits about half a dozen other major markets at halftime.

    Donald will miss it, but am sure he would like it.

    Wow! (none / 0) (#183)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 05:51:09 PM EST
    What a great commercial.
    Very effective.

    Wow, indeed! (none / 0) (#187)
    by sj on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 06:08:36 PM EST
    What Zorba said.

    The real problem is that (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 05:40:35 PM EST
    reading comprehension is apparently not being taught in schools anymore.

    Reminding christine that Slado isn't required to jump when and if she commands it isn't telling someone what kind of discussion to have.

    It's just my opinion, but I do think the discussion could be more worthwhile if, instead of responding to someone's expression of opinion with, "oh, no - you don't believe that," the response could be more along the lines of drawing the person out and asking why he or she feels that way, or just simply saying, "I don't understand."  It's quite aggravating to be told, "no, that's not what you mean, you mean this."

    And yes, we could let it go, but I don't think it's right that someone else thinks they get to decide what my own words, clearly explained, mean.  If they don't agree with what I'm saying, fine, but disagree with my words, not the ones you want me to have written.

    I disagree with people all the time, but I don't think I tell them that what they've just said isn't what they mean, or try to make their words mean something other than what the they've said they mean.

    Maybe this is a Mars v. Venus kind of thing, I don't know, but that doesn't explain christine's apparent zeal for confrontation and gotcha mentality.

    That last pile-on, where jb was the victim, was just way too Lord-of-the-Flies for me, and I would hate to see that starting up again.

    I probably should have made this a response to vic, but I'm too tired to cut and past and re-do the comment.

    That's the bottom line for me as well (none / 0) (#185)
    by sj on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 05:58:37 PM EST
    It's quite aggravating to be told, "no, that's not what you mean, you mean this."

    And yes, we could let it go, but I don't think it's right that someone else thinks they get to decide what my own words, clearly explained, mean.  If they don't agree with what I'm saying, fine, but disagree with my words, not the ones you want me to have written.

    I'd up the ante on that first sentence and point out that often the "no, that's not what you mean" part was/is often completely left out in order for the word twisting to happen.

    And that last pile-on was really, really ugly, carried forward as it was, from thread to thread, and from day to day. "Lord of the Flies" is right.


    Can't believe how much it's raining here (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 08:46:00 AM EST
    Wish I could send you guys out west some.   It's rained here every day since I can remember and there are flash flood watches through Sunday evening.  So Sunday nite TV will probably be hosed again.  

    Everything green is really happy.  the grape vines are unbelievable.  The pic really doesn't do justice.  I don't think there could possibly be one one grape on there.

    So gorgeous here again this weekend. (none / 0) (#9)
    by Anne on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 09:33:43 AM EST
    We've somehow fallen into a pattern where it rains during the week and clears up for the weekend; not complaining!

    Those grapes look great.  My husband grows wine grapes, and while the new growth is looking good, development of the grapes is a bit behind where yours are.  Ours grow in two rows parallel to the fence line on the far side of our field, where they get the most sun; last couple years, we've had to net them because something - probably the deer - was eating them right down to the wood.

    Husband's started up his bee hives this year; they seem to be doing well.  We had problems with mites and possibly the colony collapse disorder, so he hadn't done anything for some years.  He actually has all new hive bodies and frames - using nothing from the old hives.  Fingers crossed the bees make lots of honey - people are always so surprised at how different this honey tastes than what you get in the store.  Soooo good!


    Don't remember where you are (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 09:38:15 AM EST
    Yeah the deer. They leap right over the 5 ft fence arpind my back yard and go after everything.

    Some of my fruit trees are getting some king of blight.

    My grapes are on an arbor over a bench swing.  My favorite place for a relaxing evening toke.


    I just purchased some (none / 0) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 11:39:15 AM EST
    Micronized sulfur dust and one of those old fashioned hand dusters.  You can use morning dew or lightly wet down your plants and fruits.  Pump some sulfur dust on, leave on 30 mins and rinse off before the sun is in a position to bear down....says that will burn the plants.

    Really blights blight!

    Deer?  That's what the dogs are for.  Nobody wants to sleep outdoors from 11pm- 4am?  that's when they usually go after my stuff.


    Thanks for the blight advise (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 12:17:42 PM EST
    As for deer the dogs are not in the yard that much in really warm weather and I am lucky enough to aparrently live in a deer run.  They come from the field across the street through my yard and into the field behind my house.  Always the same path which is unfortunately the span of fence where I planted the climbing rose last spring.  At least once a week I wake up to find that span down or partially down from a sagging deer belly.  So far no damage to the rose.
    It's fun in the winter they come through by the dozens.  In the summer not so much.

    Btw for dog owners that fence is great (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 03:56:24 PM EST
    It is something I learned about when I moved here.  Cattle panels.  My dogs are escape artists.  I had always had chain link and I would literally have to line the bottom of the fence with blocks or something to keep the from digging under.  The panels sit on the ground.  The dogs can not get a nose under it so it never occurs to them to dog under.  If your land is relatively flat it works great.  Also one of the downsides of chain link was that about once a week I would have to witness the brutal massacre of some small furry creature who could not find a way out of the chain link in time.  With this stuff they sail right through and the dogs get stopped at the shoulders.

    Summers on the ranch (none / 0) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 11:58:55 AM EST
    Those panels made many temp holding spaces for bum lambs when they were tiny, or if we had several litters of pigs at the same time.  My Uncle had some of everything :). He said he was diversified, because sometimes the market is down in a particular area.

    But we used the metal drive-in fence posts, and then wired panels to them.  Easy to put up, easy to take down, strong.


    That's the stuff. (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 12:33:02 PM EST
    I plan to set wooden posts so they are a bit more decorative when I get around to it.  Also didn't want to do that until.  I am sure exactly what I want the perimeter to be.  Think I am going to expand it.  Have a lot of yard the dogs can't currently use.

    I bet some wood posts with finials (none / 0) (#69)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 10:48:35 PM EST
    Would make a beautiful fence.

    Do you remember your climbing rose variety (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 03:25:42 PM EST
    If it were in arid Colorado I would know which variety to go with.  Once in a very great while I will see a climber doing well here in this climate.  It is almost always pink.

    One of my friends has a yellow, but it doesn't get many blooms here.  It is an impenetrable fence of horrific thorns though.  No man or beast would challenge it.


    I don't (none / 0) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 03:49:34 PM EST
    It was growing seemingly wild in the field next to my house.  A gaunt ball of pink.  I just grabbed a chunk and stuck it by the fence and it took off.  Never thought it would grow that much in a year.  I suspect there was at some point a house in the field next to my house where it was growing.

    That's so funny (none / 0) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 04:05:00 PM EST
    There are some growing in the ditches on the highway near my home.  They are always in front of a house though so I don't think Mother Nature did it.  I am about to knock on someone's door and go begging.

    I think you're talking about a mutabilis rose. (none / 0) (#41)
    by Angel on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 10:46:50 PM EST
    My mother gave me a cutting from her bush years ago which I promptly forgot about. It languished in my backyard, neglected in a forgotten pot for over a year before I realized what it was. Stuck it in the ground and it took off like you wouldn't believe. It grew over a six foot fence within the year and the stalks were easily one inch in diameter. Nothing could kill that bush!

    The roses I see near (none / 0) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 11:51:58 AM EST
    Are very full blooms, small though, but many full petaled flowers.  Maybe an old climbing tea rose variety.  I am reading that quite a few heirloom tea roses have been noted to do well here.

    The deer can certainly jump over (none / 0) (#89)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 12:19:31 PM EST
    some pretty tall fences.
    But for some reason, an electric fence (much shorter than five feet) works well to keep them out of our garden.  Sure, they could jump over it, but they don't.  We have speculated that, because the wires are thin, they don't "see" them, or maybe they don't think that they are a barrier, then they blunder into them, get a heck of a shock, and shy away.
    Whatever the reason, the electric fence works great.

    When (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 09:41:31 AM EST
    you guys talk about your gardens you make me jealous that I live in suburbia.

    You can purchase a spary (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 11:19:53 AM EST
    from Walmart and/or Lowes called Repels that you can squirt around and keep the varmints away.

    Started using it 2 years ago and it solved the problem.


    I can't really use the stuff because (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 11:26:52 AM EST
    All my produce is in my backyard where my dogs live and it supposedly makes them very unhappy.  Rather share the fruit and have happy dogs.

    You have that right (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 07:21:46 PM EST
    It's a great country ain't it? (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 08:38:55 AM EST
    I'm sure when Jeralyn surfaces (none / 0) (#8)
    by Anne on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 09:23:28 AM EST
    she'll advise - you could also just e-mail her with your concerns.

    Fred Handle plays the music of Frank Zappa (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 09:58:22 AM EST
    solo piano.  For those not familiar with Zappas more serious music

    This is a great introduction.  It's lovely.

    More music news (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 10:08:44 AM EST
    Composer Marty O'Donnell, the man responsible for Halo's iconic theme song, is suing the head of his former company Bungie for not paying benefits he claims he is owed.

    I have heard the Halo music played on NPRs morning classical show more that once.


    Ok (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 11:17:48 AM EST
    A for effort but I emit the guy is not a piano legend.

    if you care try this The Black Page


    OK (none / 0) (#28)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 03:54:11 PM EST
    Black Page.. Now that sounds like the Zappa I know.

    Wow (none / 0) (#27)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 03:52:43 PM EST
    For such someone which such a great musical imagination, I never thought Zappa would be capable of producing Schmaltz..

    Maybe the piece is supposed to go 6x faster..


    Try (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 04:04:54 PM EST
    Ha (none / 0) (#33)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 04:11:13 PM EST
    I thought it sounded vaguely familiar...  not 6x speed, but 3x..
    muuuuuuuuch better..  the snappy rhythm and sarcastic sax render out all the schmalz..

    poor guy... I cannot imagine anyone giving him a dime for his recording project. What is he thinking?


    Well since I know mr greenjeans by (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 04:18:12 PM EST
    Heart I thought his rendition was sort of sweet.  Even if he missed a few notes.  Sadly that was the best of his recordings.
    I did not donate but wish him well. There is not enough Zappa in the world.

    Zappa Schmaltz (none / 0) (#43)
    by Lfrieling on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 08:41:36 AM EST
    I think Zappa was capable of about anything he was in the mood for.  I was lucky enough to see him with the original Mothers, at the Garrick Theater in the Village MANY times during their two 6 month stints there.  That would have been about 1968 or so, about the same time as the first album.  

    They were always amazing live (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 09:18:07 AM EST
    I saw them times without counting over the years.  Every time it was even remotely possible.  I remember once in St Louis they came out onstage Zappa came to the microphone and said "tonight there will be NO lyrics" add the crowd absolutely erupted.
    It was the best live concert I have ever seen.

    I miss him a lot.  He had things to say beyond music.


    Not Spam. (none / 0) (#16)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 10:13:01 AM EST
    He is a Colorado Attorney and fan of Jeralyn's. The link is to his web-site.

    Been watching (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 08:17:03 PM EST
    All Is Lost
    The Redford movie where he is lost at sea and there is no dialog for two hours.
    I like it a lot more than I expected to.
    But I keep thinking he should put on 40 lbs and do the Teddy Kennedy Story.  He is starting to look just like him.

    Loved that film. He is so underrated as an actor. (none / 0) (#40)
    by Angel on Sat Jun 07, 2014 at 10:40:29 PM EST
    Great movie (none / 0) (#49)
    by Yman on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 11:32:53 AM EST
    Reminded me of Cast Away with Tom Hanks, with him being the only character with no dialogue for most of the movie.

    Segue: silence. (none / 0) (#50)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 11:44:21 AM EST
    Did you see this one?



    Have not (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 12:26:18 PM EST
    But I have heard.  It shall move up on the list

    GOT was awsum tonite! (none / 0) (#63)
    by ZtoA on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 09:16:07 PM EST
    Epic. Sadly a couple of my favorite characters got killed. The filming and the choreography was incredible. How many superlatives can I fit in here? Great CGI and sets too.

    It is funny the extreme reactions (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 12:32:50 PM EST
    online and among my friends. Have heard everything from 'best episode ever' to 'waste of an hour'.

    I think the Slate reviewer Dan Kois put his finger on it - given the structural problems of the story with these guys at the wall so far out of the main action, and so few people there we know well and care about, the best option was to go big on the battle elements, mastadons, giants, etc - and they did that very well.


    It was a dude episode (none / 0) (#134)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:13:25 PM EST
    That was what I told my husband when he called me on his lunch hour.  When I said it was all fighting at the wall he immediately had to go see if it was available in Korea yet, and then spent his lunch hour watching.

    When they blew out that sharpened anchor thing, that threw me.  When I watched it the second time with my husband he asked if they were blowing up the wall....that was followed by Oh Yeah :)

    It was The Manshow


    yeah - I did not see that coming! (none / 0) (#168)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 03:08:29 PM EST
    The ice scythe was def my favorite part. I'm sure they had been waiting for 100 years for a chance to use that thing. Or maybe they use it for yummy shaved ice desserts sometimes. Maybe Sam the steward can get working on that.

    Previously.tv had a few pictures of it, then a picture of Jaime with the caption something like - I could really use one of those. Funny.


    My favorite bit was the giant (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 09:23:35 PM EST
    Chasing a mammoth with it's a$$ on fire.

    Yeah that was cool (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by ZtoA on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 09:36:12 PM EST
    Being a 'girl' I liked the dialog parts. Sam and Gilly were great - go Sam! Janos Slynt is such a coward! Sad ending to Ygritte. The lengthy takes were incredible - quite a feat of directing, acting and stunts.

    What happened to Alliser Thorne?


    I watched it with peanut gallery (none / 0) (#68)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 09:44:53 PM EST
    Josh.  He was very hard on Sam.  Gee Sam, a great idea to keep Gilly safe is you remove her from the presence of armed men sworn to practice celibacy, and you rehome her in a whorehouse.  Yeah Sam, worried about Gilly being raped, make her leave a place where men have promised to not have sex with anyone, and toss her in a whorehouse.  Because you are Sam, and Sam is booksmart.

    I'm with Josh (none / 0) (#71)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 02:57:02 AM EST
    Sam''s earnestness is supposed to be endearing I guess,, but is is not working on me. Neither is Gilly's one facial expression.  Sam serves mostly as a set-up man for Jon Snow's big line deliveries.

    Speaking of which, if the only real hope they have is for him to go try to kill Mance....seems like that would have been a plan the commander might have listened to a few weeks ago.

    This whole concept of the wall and 100 men as defense seems flawed to me.


    Spouse called later (none / 0) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 07:09:21 AM EST
    And was able to get it on HBOgo.  So I watched it a second time with him.  He's still in luv with Ygritte.  I knew that part was going to choke him up.

    When it was over he went on and on about how she wasn't going to shoot.  I said she was going to shoot.  He insists no, he thought she took the tension off the bow.  I said that I didn't see that.  What we didn't do is rewind :)

    I guess I'm going to have to unleash the henna and find a bow and some arrows now or he's going to run off and become a wildling


    All due respect to the hubby (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 08:36:22 AM EST
    I was happy to see her get it.  IMO she has had it coming for a while.  
    Don't  care how perky she is slaughtering innocent villagers by the dozens is not ok.

    He just loves strong girls (none / 0) (#80)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 10:59:18 AM EST
    Cersei scares him though, not that kind of strong, that's bad strong. He loves a girl pure of spirit and heart, he thinks he can always work with that one.  She will never shoot you in the face, until she does : D

    He would love my new (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 11:01:42 AM EST
    85 yo girlfriend Kati

    He would (none / 0) (#82)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 11:02:55 AM EST
    Also interesting and ironic (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 10:01:36 AM EST
    How she got it.  The kid did exactly was Snow told him to do.  

    Yes, that was fitting (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 11:46:50 AM EST
    After she helped wipe out his village and let the Thenn eat his parents. She was a lean mean killing machine...I guess she gets points for not eating her kill, but that's about it.

    Btw Penny Dreadful was excellent (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 10:46:13 AM EST
    All background exposition on the Mina Vanessa relationship.  All while Vanessa is smoking a joint and writing a letter to Mina.  

    Just finished watching it on the stair master.   The DVR was not able to get it until the middle of the night after the rain.


    I saw it (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 10:56:03 AM EST
    Probably my favorite episode so far.  Watching it required no effort on my part.

    I loved the scene on the beach (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 11:21:58 AM EST
    The tortured seeker all in black the possessed one all in white.

    What a wonderful detail that Mina's dress was to long to be practical.   Giving her the feeling of a prop


    MT, did you see 'All The Way' and (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 11:49:26 AM EST
    Bryan Cranston won the Tony's? I think it is safe to say it is the only time I will ever have seen a Tony winning production and actor!

    You and MT really know how to pick a play! (none / 0) (#90)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 12:19:49 PM EST
    I didn't! (none / 0) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 01:03:28 PM EST
    How awesome!

    He gave such an incredible electrifying performance though I'm not surprised.


    Saving all my episodes of PD for after (none / 0) (#85)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 11:48:03 AM EST
    GoT. Looking forward to it!

    I know you are a Deb (Jennifer Carpenter) fan (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 08:00:20 PM EST
    Wondering if you everThe Exorcism of Emily Rose

    Was just watching.  It's pretty good.


    Thanks a lot, I will definitly watch (none / 0) (#124)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 12:22:16 PM EST
    Love my Jen.

    Do you watch Orange is the New Black?  New season good so far, I'm up to episode 4.


    Ah, you guys are too hard on Sam and Gilly (none / 0) (#93)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 01:32:04 PM EST
    both are traumatized survivors who's emotions have been nearly destroyed. They slowly find their human emotions (other than fear) with each other and help each other grow up. I think both are played perfectly in character.

    Hey, it isn't me (none / 0) (#94)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 05:20:23 PM EST
    It's Josh.  Josh wants to give Sam the idiot of the season award, not me.

    I am not necessarily a deeply strategic thinker though like Josh and Ruffian.  


    Seriously (none / 0) (#95)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 05:21:59 PM EST
    Sam's flawed logic escaped me.  Well until Josh exposed it.  Josh has been chapped at Sam for two episodes now.

    I know, I will cut them some slack (none / 0) (#120)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 12:14:39 PM EST
    Maybe it will help having a year from seeing them again...hoping they are not in the finale this week.

    That one long tracking shot across the castle was (none / 0) (#72)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 03:05:36 AM EST
    really good. Helped place everybody. I thought I saw Alliser get stabbed by someone at some point, but it was hard for me to tell everyone apart in the thick of it.

    I think I noticed the CGI too much. There were a lot of very mechanical looking archers placed about the scenes. I'm not very appreciative of the video- game look and feel of it.


    That's what happens (none / 0) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 08:32:17 AM EST
    when the cgi stuff is used by directors who may not be used to integrating into live action on the scale we saw in this episode.  

    It's starts to look like a videogame.  


    That's how it felt to me (none / 0) (#87)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 12:02:26 PM EST
    I don't know if any of Oberyn's acrobatics last week were computer aided, but I found that fight a lot more exciting than the one last night. Maybe jsut because I cared about the outcome more though.

    I do think Jon Snow is a graceful fighter, and fun to watch. So was Alliser. I have to check the GoT gravestone site to see if he is dead - the Mountain too for that matter! Hmmm...Alliser is not on here. Neither is The Mountain. But I did leave another flower for Oberyn.


    bad link above, sorry (none / 0) (#88)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 12:04:54 PM EST
    It didn't look to me like Allister was killed (none / 0) (#91)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 12:56:40 PM EST
    He was wounded then put behind some door.

    The CGI didn't bother me. I read that the whole fight scene, which was very long, was filmed 5 times in its entirety to get the footage. The choreography and staging were very complex and exciting.


    And that other giant was so sad/mad (none / 0) (#66)
    by ZtoA on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 09:37:44 PM EST
    about the first giant and the mammoth.

    No mammoths or giants (5.00 / 4) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 09:40:26 PM EST
    Were actually harmed in the filming of this episode

    Loved those very deep pitched horns (none / 0) (#70)
    by ZtoA on Sun Jun 08, 2014 at 11:26:54 PM EST
    What did they use for that? They really did sound like war horns. Music with all horns and deep drums. Brilliant.

    Museum lovers... (none / 0) (#98)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 07:01:16 PM EST
    Squeaky this reminded me of the link you gave a while back where the Harvard grad complained about his gallery experience.


    Funny (none / 0) (#103)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 09, 2014 at 10:12:46 PM EST
    Seems about right, these are the types of people fueling the art market today.

    Hillary (none / 0) (#104)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 09:47:12 AM EST
    The Dead Broke comment is not going over well.

    This should have been a layup and she's stepped right into it.

    I hope her plan isn't to run as a populist outsider.  Is there anymore of an insider then Hillary?

    Shouldn't she run as a experience Washington person who can get stuff done and say haven't you had enough of outsiders?

    Is anyone going to buy that she's a women of the people?

    Really? (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 10:04:30 AM EST
    Hot air? Do you expect Hot Air to ever say anything positive about her?

    We get the veiled threats coming from the GOP. We understand you have nobody to run for President.

    I guess you don't remember that Terry Mac had to help them buy that house because they couldn't get a loan? Whatever. Hot air is playing to the far right 1/3 to 1/4 of the country. The same group of people that think George W. Bush was a wonderful president.


    Mika Brzezinski is jealous of Hillary Clinton (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 10:22:45 AM EST
    That has been obvious for a very long time.  Each person uses their skills as opportunity allows and they choose. Hillary evolved into one of our most accomplished SoS and Mika evolved into the Democrats version of Peggy Noonan, and I guess Mika isn't happy with that, or how well her book sold compared to Hillary's and boo hoo hiss!

    Perhaps Mika should have knocked on different doors and sought to expand and grow in different directions in the past, she could do something more beneficial to mankind in general tomorrow if she wanted.  Maybe do something a little more demanding and giving back than having photo shoots with Joe Scarborough while wearing expensive sunglasses :)


    I know it's wrong (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 04:39:58 PM EST
    But I really hate her.  

    Attack the messenger? (none / 0) (#110)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 10:26:36 AM EST
    The video clip is of Mika on MSNBC.

    But why bother with facts.

    You think her comment was politically savvy?   Need to make sure you give advice to all Dems this year.


    We know who the video clip (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 10:35:59 AM EST
    Is of....whether or not she is a Democrat has always been questionable.  Mika is a journalist though, a journalist who for some reason acts like she has experienced creating and implementing successful policies instead of getting up every morning mostly concerned about how photogenic she is today.

    Maybe because (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 11:55:30 AM EST
    Her father, Zbigniew was Carter's National Security Advisor, she thinks she is a policy wonk, herself.
    I guess she thinks the expertise is inherited.    ;-)

    It seems that way to me too (none / 0) (#118)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 11:59:06 AM EST
    I watch her roll eyes over Dem policy all the time, most often it seems when a policy is considered successful.  It took awhile before I realized that with all this critiquing, she had few suggestions, even fewer plausible suggestions.

    If there is an entry for (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 04:46:06 PM EST
    Clueless out of touch elitist in the encyclopedia it should have her picture.   Even more because she has no clue how clueless and out of touch she is.  Her self image is of a down to earth woman of the people.  

    I used to watch that show all the time because I like information in the morning.   And god knows there is nothing else on the tube.  Then I started sleeping later and missing the show.  I find I am a much happier person as a result.


    You are too kind (none / 0) (#119)
    by sj on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 12:13:04 PM EST
    Mika is a journalist though...
    Whether or not she is a journalist is also questionable.

    WTF? (none / 0) (#126)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 12:24:08 PM EST
    Because she is questioning Hillary all of a sudden she is not a journalist?

    On June 26, 2007, near the beginning of Morning Joe, Brzezinski refused to read a report about Paris Hilton's release from jail. One hour later during another news break segment, her producer Andy Jones again pushed the story as the lead, ranking it over Indiana's Republican Senator Richard Lugar's break with President Bush on the Iraq war, which Brzezinski considered more important. After several sarcastic remarks from host Joe Scarborough, she attempted to light the story's script on fire on the air, but was physically prevented from doing so by co-host Willie Geist. She then tore up the script, and one hour later, got up and ran another copy of the script through a paper shredder retrieved from Dan Abrams's office.[5] The incident was quickly popularized on the Internet, and in the days that followed, Brzezinski received large quantities of fan mail supporting her on-air protest as a commentary on the tension between "hard news" and "entertainment news".[6][7] Similarly, on July 7, 2010, she spent significant airtime objecting to pressure to report on Lindsay Lohan and Levi Johnston, eventually having Geist or Pat Buchanan report the stories with the caption "News You Can't Use".

    In January 2011, she spent time on-air mentioning that it was not newsworthy to report on Sarah Palin's reaction to President Obama's speech about the Tucson shooting.[8]

    She certainly has quite a bit of experience as a journalist.. so it is hard to imagine where you are coming from..


    Mika's skill set... (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by sj on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 12:31:43 PM EST
    or lack thereof... has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. Nor does my comment. My comment has to do with lack of journalistic skills.

    What she did or did not do in 2007 is irrelevant to the present. Having a public megaphone makes the "so what did you do for me lately" attitude very relevant. You can use Bob Woodward as Exhibit A: once a journalist, now a courtier.

    Being a face on TV does not make one a journalist. Journalism makes one a journalist.

    Now go away and take your straw man with you.


    Straw Man (none / 0) (#130)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 12:36:39 PM EST
    What a bunch of crap. Mika Brzezinski is unquestionably a journalist.

    There is no straw man involved. Her record is extensive. Just because you do not like her does not erase her career as a journalist.

    Having an opinion does not stop one from being a journalist.


    Yes, she is a journalist (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 12:45:59 PM EST
    Who MSNBC gave a platform to to add balance to Morning Joe :). They gave her job to be "the Democrat" journalist and she uses this gift of this platform to do little more than strike pose on :)

    She is a journalist that irks the crap out of me now.  If she's a Democrat she is the laziest Dem issues Democrat with a microphone in her hand daily I have ever seen :)


    It would be more (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by sj on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:18:29 PM EST
    accurate to say that she is a "journalist". Air quotes are required around that word as well as around "the Democrat".

    As usual (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by sj on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:36:05 PM EST
    You have to make up things and twist statements to get the argument you want. You say the very same things that I do and present it as an counter-argument. So... pfffft...

    Really? (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by Yman on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 10:38:38 PM EST
    What a bunch of crap. Mika Brzezinski is unquestionably a journalist.

    I question it.  She's a commentator, like O'Reilly.

    That was easy.


    I say she's a journalist (none / 0) (#127)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 12:30:55 PM EST
    Is she of the highest quality though?  Hmmmm

    She seems too biased to me to be considered a heavy hitter.  If not for who her daddy is and her looks I'm not sure how far she would have gotten in the business of journalism.


    I have to be honest (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by sj on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:12:29 PM EST
    I say she's a journalist (none / 0) (#127)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 11:30:55 AM MDT

    Is she of the highest quality though?  Hmmmm

    Glenn Greenwald's (and others') observations about the cozy relationships between TV talking heads and the public "servants" they talk about has me looking things more carefully. Moreover, I have a very good friend is a journalist who has worked at smallish, local newspapers for over 35 years. We've talked about this a lot.

    I don't have a problem with a journalist having a point of view, as long as the reporting part of whatever they are talking about has the focus. That isn't the case with Mika.

    But to be fair, that wasn't the case about a year ago when I stopped taking the time to watch/listen. If you can show she has suddenly acquired or recovered skill since then, then I will take back my remarks.

    Like I said: when it comes to journalism, "what have you done for me lately."

    And to me, "talking head" is not the same thing as "journalist".


    Why link to hot air? (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 12:21:35 PM EST
    I'm not going to give them a click and probably no one here is going to either.

    So what? Even she said she's going to say what she says and let the chips fall where they may. She certainly doesn't care what low hanging fruit from the GOP says about anything anyhow.


    I must have missed her announcement; (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 10:25:45 AM EST
    so, she's officially running?

    I don't think Hillary is likely to run as an outsider in 2016, given that her 2008 campaign was all about her being the experienced candidate - I don't think that after someone is First Lady, US Senator and Secretary of State she's going to run for president - this time - as an outsider.

    So stop that silly talk.

    I agree that her close ties to Goldman Sachs and the financial industry are going to make it harder for her to make the woman-of-the-people argument - but I wouldn't count her out of being able to thread that needle.  

    Hillary has always been a strong voice for women and children, especially.  Even as Secretary of State, she advocated for them around the world.  No, she didn't grow up in abject poverty, and I don't imagine she and Bill were ever close to being homeless, but anyone who has sat with a pile of bills and not enough money to pay them understands how difficult life can be if you feel you have no hope of ever rising above it.

    There are a lot of people with money doing good things with it, giving back to their communities and aiding causes and issues in service to lifting people up.  Yes, the Clintons have a lot of money now, but some people never forget the struggle - even if it wasn't of the epic variety that a$$hats like Mika Brzezinski seems to think it should have been in order for Hillary to have credibility.

    All this being said, there are plenty of other reasons to want this inevitable maybe-candidate to get some push from the left; absent that push, it's just going to be one more better-than-the-other-guy election.

    Thanks, but no thanks.


    Let me be clear (none / 0) (#114)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 11:05:12 AM EST
    I only bring this up because I get the sense that Hillary is tying to have it both ways.   Be a women of the people and make gobs of money from corporations in speaking fees.

    My dislike of the state of Washington is bipartisan.

    Both republicans and democrats never leave Washington as anything other then wealthy people.  

    Look at Harry Reid for goodness sakes.   I'm sure their are plenty of examples on the republican side as well.  In fact I have no doubts there are.

    I have a real issue with the idea that once you get to Washington you have made it and just need to make sure you take maximize your earning potential during and after your time in office.

    Maybe I'm just Pollyanna about this but it seems that it's getting worse not better.

    All the talk of "helping" is just that.   The cynic in me sees that as just the price of admission and the rewards for doing a little time in public office are to great to pass up.


    "just a pollyanna"??? (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:25:47 PM EST
    Thanks for today's chuckle, slado.  I do believe that "Republican" fits better than "Pollyanna."

    Hillary Clinton is doing a great roll-out of her book as well as keeping the interest alive.  That isn't trying-to-have-it-both-ways.  It is, rather, smart strategy and great politics.  Now, how is your side of the aisle doing again?  Is it Cruz this week or Paul or the in-hiding Paul Ryan or the foot-in-mouth Rubio or even the has-been Christie trying to make a comeback?  While your remarks about trying to set up a wedge re: Clinton are so predictable ... which Repub candidate you prefer at this point is still unknown.  I suspect that you all are having a devil of a time on that one, tho.


    Her rollout (none / 0) (#148)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:55:25 PM EST
    is great if your a supporter.

    Not so great if your not.

    I guess you are ignoring her ridiculous comments on being "broke" and her inability to name an achievement while at state.


    The GOP (5.00 / 3) (#166)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:58:37 PM EST
    was high fiving and celebrating the fact that they were in debt back in 2000. Now they're going to try to make hay from the fact that Hillary says they didn't have any money?

    Political operatives down here in GA are PRAYING that she doesn't run for POTUS.

    You can parse every sentence that comes out of her mouth but she's going to have a huge organization to refute everything the GOP does and says if she runs. She is going to have a war room the likes of none you have ever seen before. And the GOP is scared. As they should be. When you're looking at losing three in a row and winning the popular vote once in almost a quarter of a century you should freak out.


    "Ridiculous" comments? (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by Yman on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 10:44:51 PM EST
    Funny, considering her comment was entirely true.

    BTW -

    I guess you are ignoring her ridiculous comments on being "broke" and her inability to name an achievement while at state.

    Is your mischaracterization of the question intentional or were you just not paying attention during the interview?


    I'm sure you simply misspoke (none / 0) (#135)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:16:44 PM EST
    about the 'state of Washington', which DC is not. At least you are not talking about how terrible it is for her to earn comparable speaking fees to men, or her being a murderer, or having bad hair-dos.

    Perhaps you misread "state of (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:32:12 PM EST
    Washington" to mean "the territory presided over by a governor and other local officials" as opposed to "the general political machinations that take place in the seat of our national government."

    Perhaps "state of affairs inside the Beltway" would have been clearer, but I don't think anyone read that portion of the comment to mean that he actually dislikes the State of Washington.


    Perhaps Anne (none / 0) (#146)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:53:33 PM EST
    but I love the state of Washington and the 'state' (of mind) of Washington. Not DC tho.

    Thanks Anne (none / 0) (#147)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:54:16 PM EST
    I mean the state of affairs in Washington DC.

    Meaning the crony capitalism, debt ridden governance and bipartisan tomfoolery that the place exhibits on a daily basis.

    IMHO all the inevitable outcomes of a ever expanding government.   No matter who runs the place.


    From your link (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 10:53:25 AM EST
    MSNBC co-host Mika Brzezinski has had it with her fellow Morning Joe guests whitewashing Hillary Clinton's comments about her family emerging from the White House "dead broke." While she said that the statement is true, and her family also struggled when they made the transition into public service, she implored her fellow broadcasters to stop angling for an interview with Clinton and comment honestly about how politically "tone-deaf" her statement was.

    So even Mika agrees with the fact that after the Clintons left the WH, they didn't really have any money they could use (in large part due to defending against Ken Starr and the Rush Limbaugh minions of the world).


    Clinton's financial disclosure forms filed in 2000 show the couple had assets worth at least $781,000 and as much as nearly $1.8 million. The form, which Clinton filed as a Senate candidate, show she and her husband owed between $2.3 million and $10.6 million in legal bills at that time, according to the Associated Press.

    So, no, the Clintons weren't in a position where they needed to stand in line for food stamps, but let's go to favorite topics of Republicans -economics and businesses.

    Total assets = $780,000 - $1.8 million
    Total liabilities = $2.3 million - $10.6 million

    Being generous with their asset number and conservative with their liabilities we get:

    $1.8 million < $2.3 million

    In business, they call that "Operating at a Loss".


    Are you serious (1.00 / 2) (#113)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 10:59:22 AM EST
    The Clintons knew full well that the windfall was just around the corner.

    Hillary had an advance on her book before she left office.

    Being "Dead Broke" implies that you are out of money and don't know where the next dollar comes from.

    Hardly the case for the Clintons.

    Also keep in mind that as an ex president Clinton was going to benefit from all sorts of tax payer goodies for the rest of his life.

    Let's take a little more perspective shall we.

    How and why are the Clinton's wealthy today?

    Have they held a job since leaving office?  Have they invented something?

    No.  They are wealthy based on their celebrity and connections from their time in Washington.

    They have used their time in Washington to become extremely wealthy people.

    A great gig if you can get it.   Do a little public service and then let the cash flow in.

    Maybe I should run for office?


    Are you calling the Clinton Foundation (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 11:06:40 AM EST
    "a little public service"?

    I'm not saying (none / 0) (#149)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:57:32 PM EST
    they're bad people.

    I'm simply saying that they are emblamatic of an ongoing trend in Washington.

    If you achieve National office you are going to become wealthy.  

    It is not simply about public service anymore.   People can literally run for office to get rich now.  

    Maybe I'm the only one that has a problem with this.


    So what do you suggest the Clintons do? (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:34:50 PM EST
    And Hillary specifically? Who, BTW, I don't think ran for public office to become wealthy.

    Whatever they want (1.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:42:52 PM EST
    I have no problem in her doing what she's done.

    I have a problem with the system as a whole.  She is just one of several examples.

    She's playing the game.

    Hate the game, not the player.


    Oh, so it isn't about Hillary then, (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 03:12:35 PM EST
    but the system. Got it. You should have been more  direct in your original comment if you wanted to discuss the system and don't have a problem with Hillary . . .

    They better be rich in order to (none / 0) (#171)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 03:21:13 PM EST
    run for public office.

    Empathy (5.00 / 3) (#116)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 11:13:41 AM EST
    The middle class will identify with the statement and Hillary's ensuing defense.

    It is about being in debt. Many who have struggled with getting ahead, kids to school, mortgages, upward mobility, will identify, despite the fact that she was relatively rich, and had a way out that was not possible for most Americans.

    It is the dream..  getting out of a hole and rising up.

    The details, which you bring will not matter to anyone except hard core GOPers hoping to make Hillary look dishonest and a cheat.


    Yes, saueaky ... but the game (none / 0) (#140)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:35:16 PM EST
    for the slados and his Repub-types is to find a soft spot, wedge, or character weakness in Hillary right now ... and, do the usual push-push.  They'll have to try something else, of course; because the old memes are a bit boring to most people.  

    Join me in asking what Repub character slado is favoring or supporting.  That would be more fun, because--as you know--it would be quite a challenge for the GOP to find and agree on anyone right now.  Actually, the most challenging statement for them to deal with right now was just made by Senator John McCain, who simply said that if his party sideline or derails immigration reform now, they cannot and will not be able to elect a Repub as the next President.  I would love to hear from Hillary Clinton vs any potential national Repub candidate on the subject of immigration reform.  That substantive matter would be far more interesting.


    To: squeaky Re: "join me" (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 05:31:14 PM EST
    Determining the placement of my clarification in the matter of "join me" has been somewhat interesting.  First: Given the comment that squeaky wrote in response to slado and with which I agree, my comment following squeaky's was one of support and an informal invite to squeaky to "join me" in further response to slado to ascertain his preferred candidate in view of the several aspersions/Repub talking-points he had lobbed Hillary's way.  Second: The "join me" phrase was meant to be in a political back & forth/discussion motif following the commentary that slado had initiated.  Third: Other than to Anne and sj, it is not intended to be a big deal. Fourth: I will take the opportunity, tho, to note what a number of us see ... and, that is a significant amount of background from some such as slado that logically suggests a defined political persuasion reflective of Repub talking points ... and that is why I go there from time to time.

    BTW, squeaky:  My apology for the early typing error with your name.  Those "q"s !


    Why do you need someone to join you (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 03:16:40 PM EST
    in "ascertaining" his preferred candidate?  If you have such a need to know, why can't you just ask him all by your lonesome?

    Why does the political "back and forth" you say you want require two people on one side and only one on the other?

    As for thinking you see a "defined political persuasion reflective of Repub talking points" from Slado - well, we know you like to "go there," but I guess I'd have to ask two things: why is that so important to the "back and forth," and so what if you see things that might mean Slado is a Republican?  Do you have to know someone's party affiliation in order to have the back and forth?  It certainly didn't inform your beatdown on jb not so long ago, did it? She got no quarter from you in spite of her Dem party registration.  

    Please don't try to answer the questions I've raised; they are rhetorical in nature and asked for the sole purpose of revealing the high BS content of your comment.


    You seem to want a debate, Anne (none / 0) (#204)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 05:28:38 PM EST
    Well ... I'm so happy (in my strange Dem political way) about the one-who-rode-in-on-the-tiger losing the same way as he won--namely, Eric Cantor--that it is hard to entertain the word games that you pose in your immediate comment. Perhaps, later.

    Oh, by the way, if you want to "join in" the nitty-gritty of party political talk the day after a huge upset with party-changing dynamics that may well have broad consequences, please do so.  Earlier in the day, on the Tuesday Open Thread, a number of people have commented on the TeaPot influence in the Repub Party ... most national commentary front-paged, headlined the TeaParty victory.  The message is obvious.


    Need? (none / 0) (#205)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 06:59:47 PM EST
    In your inimitable fashion you turn a smart and interesting invitation (join me) into a pathology...  you are apparently the person in need and pathological.

    For someone who has been rambling on about other people's problems with reading comprehension turning words around to what you want them to mean, it appears that you need to look in a mirror.

    christinep made a very good point,  when a GOPer stars bashing Hillary ask "so, who is the GOP candidate?"


    A Thank You and a little comment (3.00 / 2) (#206)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 08:34:47 PM EST
    squeaky:  Between you and me (and the doorpost, as was once said), I have no idea where Anne is coming from here other than being "in a fighting mood."  Oh, sure, I enjoy political debate ... at its best,it sharpens the issues and the mind.  The pretend psychological patter gets a bit haywire at times ... but, if I were that far afield as Anne has been with the pretend chair & couch lately, the best advice would be that she not quit her day job.  (Note: Yep, that was a deliberate side-swipe.  Why?  Because once in awhile, the snide-swipes employed by that pretend psychologist get more than a little old and trying.  That patois is stale.)

    Anyway, squeaky, I want to say that your ripostes can be delightful in that tough political way.  You can dish it out and take it ... a good mix. And:  Being one who appreciates art, the study of the subject, and even the question of what it is --although I am not an artist & know relatively little in that regard -- I thoroughly appreciate the recent discussions you and others here have had about a range of artists.  Thank you, again.


    Oh, believe me (none / 0) (#186)
    by sj on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 06:03:46 PM EST
    First: Given the comment that squeaky wrote in response to slado and with which I agree, my comment following squeaky's was one of support and an informal invite to squeaky to "join me" in further response to slado to ascertain his preferred candidate...
    That's exactly the way I read it.

    Really? (none / 0) (#143)
    by sj on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:37:30 PM EST
    Join me in asking what Repub character slado is favoring or supporting.
    Starting that "join me" stuff again?

    Of course. (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:59:32 PM EST
    It is definitely more beneficial toward any genuine or somewhat genuine discussion/give & take when any agenda is in public view.  Transparency is a good thing, usually ... unless we all want to waste a lot of time circling, dancing, posing, and all that in order to persuade what will not be persuaded.  After all, as we move to election season, arguments from me and other partisans (on both sides of the aisle) have one flavor; but, imho, the lack of pretense that comes with disclosure outweighs veiled visages anytime.

    Well, misery does love company, right? (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:05:51 PM EST
    Makes a little more sense when you think of it that way.

    Maybe they can find a way to be a little more subtle than something that sounds like, "Hey, let's you and me go beat up on those other guys."

    Sigh...it's only going to get worse, you know.


    Thanks, Anne. (none / 0) (#158)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:35:27 PM EST
    I know that this spring finds me quite happy ... and, with the delicious spring weekends that you described, I hope that you are feeling likewise.

    As for "it's only going to get worse," we'll have to take that with a big dose of humor.  It helps to remember that politics has always been as crunching, hard fought, raucous as all forms of football combined.  A lot at stake.


    Personally, I prefer this (none / 0) (#162)
    by sj on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:47:36 PM EST
    politics has always been as crunching, hard fought, raucous as all forms of football combined
    to the passive-agressive "let's all pick on [somebody] today". Even when the "picked on" person is all in-your-face-obnoxious and I-won't-pay-attention-to-what-you-really-said like jim or squeaky, I have a problem with "join me..." in being even more obnoxious.

    But that's just me. I know that some others like getting caught up with the mob mentality. Or causing it.


    No "mob mentality" (none / 0) (#165)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:58:15 PM EST
    for me, either, sj.  My position is my position.  For me, it is about saying what I mean ... and, being open about any allegiances.  And, being openly partisan, occasions from time to time call for the give & take of political debate.  I have no problem with that.

    Getting in a hole? (none / 0) (#156)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:28:18 PM EST
    Why were they in that hole?

    Well, one reason was in 1999 they bought a $1.67million home in NY so she could run for Senate.

    Why would they do that if they're "broke"?

    You're right.  It's nice to see someone dig their own hole and then get paid to talk to rich people and get out of it.

    A true American success story.


    Of course, the MAIN reason ... (5.00 / 2) (#192)
    by Yman on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 10:55:23 PM EST
    ... is because of the millions in debt they incurred due to a Republican witch hunt.  An expectation of earning in the future does not mean you're not "broke" at the time.  My last year in law school I was absolutely "broke".  The next year I wasn't.

    You have (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 12:19:15 PM EST
    a different definition of broke. According to the banks they were "dead broke". Apparently the banks were not considering them wealthy and their balance sheet certainly didn't look good.

    Anyway none of this matters. All these facts were known back in 2008. The way Hillary gets voters is by going to talking to them. She got a lot of support from working class voters in 2008 for that same reason. Both Bill and Hillary came from the middle class.


    Just stop (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by sj on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 12:20:45 PM EST
    You're getting ridiculous. Everyone is flawed and the Clintons are no exception, but what you have been choosing to screech about it are non-issues.

    You have a brain. You should actually use it to think instead of using it to store and regurgitate the nonsense of others.

    And yes, you should run for office. Then you can post comments about how easy it is to collect your own little pot of gold. Or how it isn't.


    So what? (5.00 / 4) (#125)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 12:23:01 PM EST
    Don't all high powered politicians make money after leaving office?

    And just because someone may be in a position to make money in the future, does not mean that they don't worry about being millions in debt (from mostly a witch hunt investigation). If you think that her taking money from corporations that, should she choose to run and win, may be granted favorable status, then that's a valid concern.  But to be so up in arms about a comment about a specific time in their lives when, for all intents and purposes, they were "dead broke", seems to be missing the forest for the trees.

    Seems weird for a conservative to mock those who put their talents and connections to to use to make money, instead of just sitting around "on the dole".


    Why is it weird (none / 0) (#152)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:08:19 PM EST
    Why is it weird to be concerned that the elites of this country have a willing partner in federal government to squeeze out the rest of us?

    What I find so humorous about both parties these days is they love to talk about how they're going to help the little guy while they cozy up to big business to hurt all of us.

    This is a bipartisan affair.  The only difference is which companies they choose to use federal laws and regulations to help.

    If you think for a moment that Clinton will be any better then a republican when it comes to this God help ya.

    I'm talking about the reality that today's Washington is a place for big business to go and get things done.   The highest bidder and campaign donor will get the laws and regs they need from either party to make sure they see more profit.

    As I always say this is not the fault of business.   They are simply playing the hand they've been dealt.

    Meanwhile some will swallow the working man BS Hillary and the rest of the Washington crowd will spew out as long as they keep getting their specific issue in Washington addressed.

    It's not just her.  To me her comments are just an example of the greater hypocrisy on display daily in our nations capital.

    But believe it if you want to.   Clinton is a women of the little guy.   If she wasn't I'm sure big CEO's wouldn't be paying her $200K to speak to their corporations.


    Hey, good attempt at pivot, slado (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:51:30 PM EST
    Are you saying that you are a re-born populist?  If all the $$$ for speaking engagements and other matters is so unsettling, what are we ever to do :)  Or ... did I miss that part where you have had a social conversion from your apparent support a few months back for unregulated markets/capitalism/no-holds-barred $$$ flowing ... from that time when you forthrightly disagreed here with the humane populism expressed by Pope Francis as naively unworkable.

    But now, when talking about Hillary Clinton ... your position seems to have flipped?


    Yes, "This is a bipartisan (5.00 / 3) (#164)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:54:42 PM EST
    affair."   But not always.  Former President Truman returned to Missouri and lived a comparatively quiet life.  Indeed, a fun read is "Harry Truman's Excellent Adventure." by Stephen T. Hopkins.  The author re-visits the 1953 road trip taken by the former president from Independence back to Washington,DC.  Harry and Bess purchases their new, black 1953 Chrysler and headed east, with Harry doing the driving--no secret service, no reporters, just "motoring" for a return after Eisenhower assumed the presidency.

    Gerald Ford probably initiated the post-presidency business machine signing up with an ad agency and joining several corporate boards. But, Ronald Reagan took Ford's cue and ran with it.   His kick-off was his, what must have been a very good speech, for the Japanese.   After an eight-day regal journey of Ronnie and Nancy they returned to California about $2 million richer.  


    The windfalls :) (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:05:14 PM EST
    So cute, how the Clinton's go from being clairvoyant one moment to babbling idiots the next depending on your topic :)

    Even funnier was how NOT clairvoyant Dubya was when he was rubbing his hands together with glee and talking about replenishin them coffers like the Clinton's did :)

    I wasn't going to feed you but I appreciate comedy so much here's a quarter :)


    Where I come from, if my assets (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 01:52:35 PM EST
    are in six or fewer figures, and my debts are in seven or more figures, I'm worse than dead broke.

    I've heard conservatives claim that the US was dead broke on account of it spends more than it takes in, so why are these same people - including you - getting the vapors because Hillary made a claim about the state of her own finances at one point that you and others continue to make about the US?

    For that matter, aren't you all always calling people of wealth "job creators?"  I wonder how many people the CGI employs.  I wonder how many people Hillary has on her staff.  Those are jobs, baby.  They put food on people's tables and pay mortgages and all that good stuff.

    I don't get this sudden distaste and disdain for people with money - isn't that what we hippie-commie-leftists are supposed to be singing about?  

    Oh, wait - is it that Democrats are the party of the poor and the lazy, and if there are Democrats with money it must be ill-gotten gains of some sort?

    I think you're going to have to do better than this, Slado; these arguments seem not just petty, but seriously hypocritical.

    Not that that ever stopped people from making them.

    Carry on.


    Call me crazy (none / 0) (#153)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:12:23 PM EST
    I think her comments showed that she's just another Washington elite who's gotten rich because of her time in Washington.

    When you have to go into great detail and defend the definition of broke then you've lost the argument.   If I'm so off base why did she have to clarify her comments today?

    Again, it's not just her.   I'm disgusted by the whole system these days.   In fact what is so funny is Romney got rich not being in Washington and that was held against him in the last election.

    No we prefer our politicians get rich being politicians.  Or as long as they feed us the workingman political BS we don't care how rich they are.

    Now I get it.   Point taken.


    I get it Slado; it's my personal opinion (5.00 / 3) (#155)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:26:27 PM EST
    that Clinton is as bought-and-paid-for as anyone, and it's not something I care for.  I don't think we're getting the kind of representation WE need, I think we're getting the kind the representatives and their corporate partners need.

    It's why I didn't vote at all for president in 2008, and why I voted for Jill Stein in 2012.  I've pretty much had it with the way things work these days - so I get it.

    The truth is that "anyone" can't be president today, and until we get all the private money out of elections, the day isn't ever going to come when a person doesn't need a billion - or more - dollars to run for president.

    Find a way to keep the money out, and things might change.  Find a way to stop the revolving door, and things might change.

    But since that system is working so well for those who are in it up to their armpits, I don't believe it's going to happen in my lifetime.


    So we agree (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:39:47 PM EST

    Unfortunately we probably don't agree on the reason.

    To me the reason is the same as the famous question..."Why do you rob banks?"  

    Why does big business puts gobs of money into campaigns?   Same answer as above.

    As long as we allow politicians to increase the size and scope of government year after year these ugly realities will never change.   Too much money involved.

    Big business is the constant.   They only know one way to operate.   And that's OK quite frankly.   The role of government is to provide a fair playing field and protect the little guy.

    Problem is the government does much to much of that and other things today and with so much money up for grabs big business can't stay away.  

    Need a law to make sure you keep a monopoly?   Give money to government.   Need a new regulation that makes it a little harder on the competition?  Give money to government.  

    There has always been a cozy relationship between the elite of business and the elite of Washington but there's never been so much money involved.   Why?  Because 200 years ago the government didn't tax, regulate or involve itself in as much as it does today.

    Every year sees another agency, another law, another set of regulations that business can use to their advantage and the money being pored into Washington just gets bigger.   Is it the mom an pop business that gets to influence our elected officials?  Nope.  

    The ugly after affects are politicians getting rich simply for having served in government, moving into lobby firms, getting cushy jobs in big law firms, revolving door between the press and government, between big business and government, on and on.

    That's my issue.   And honestly I think it's too gone to be fixed.   I'm just amused that some might think voting for one party or the other will some how make a difference.

    To me the only choice is which business will the party favor over the other and what constituency will they feed BS too to make sure they stay in Washington so they can get rich.

    I'm pretty cynical.


    better change the supreme court too (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 03:27:55 PM EST
    Do you think some tea person or republican would nominate an anti-business justice?

    So, what outsider newbie would you want for president?


    So you whole-heartedly (none / 0) (#196)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 07:35:54 AM EST
    support campaign finance laws, then?  

    How about public funding of campaigns? (It would certainly shorten the election cycle if each candidate only got say, $10 million to spend in total).


    Maybe you should (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Yman on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 10:47:15 PM EST
    Let's see if it's as easy as you think it is.

    Be sure to report back how that works out for you.


    BTW - "A little public service"  ... heh, heh, heh ..


    Here we go...guess I have to dust off (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 03:10:42 PM EST
    my 2008 standard reply: IT'S AN EXPRESSION!!!!

    That doesn't seem to work anymore... (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 03:38:45 PM EST
    not when people want to flog the meaning of words like "folksy" pretty near to death in order to prove they're right about something you've already clearly explained the usage and meaning of.

    Yeah, this isn't going to be much fun, I don't think.


    Oh for God's sake (none / 0) (#106)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 10:11:12 AM EST
    The lengths and depths that you have to go to criticize Hillary Clinton, find something to throw up here and troll with, must be exhausting.

    Other then acknowledging how tired you must be,  anything else you hoped to get out of me will end in a call of no joy, at least from me :)

    I hope nobody else feeds the tired troll either :)

    Maybe you need a nap :)


    It's fear (5.00 / 4) (#107)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 10:17:09 AM EST
    When you have nothing but a clown car full of crackpots this is the kind of stuff you do.

    It's going to blow up in their faces (none / 0) (#160)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 02:41:12 PM EST
    if she does run. They will have nothing left, and everyone will be sick of listening to them get the vapors about her every time she wakes up in the morning. And they are looking pretty pathetic since they started bashing her when she has basically just been out living her life, and I'm sure the sexism will ramp up also and that will go over like gangbusters. . .

    LA County Superior Court Judge (none / 0) (#178)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 04:03:45 PM EST
    rules in favor of plaintiff re constitutionality of teacher tenure laws:


    In my view, (none / 0) (#188)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 06:35:53 PM EST
    this is a case that should be appealed by Attorney General Harris.  Judge Treu's ruling seems to have been based wholly on weighing or assessing subjective arguments with overlays of bias and/or emotion.

    Moreover, tenure is conflated with seniority on several occasions.  It is, as if a finding that the challenged statutes (permanent employment and dismissal) are unconstitutional will not only cure, but eliminate, "grossly ineffective" teachers--however that negative attribute is systematically and fairly determined. And,  the impression that such teachers disproportionately inflicted on poor students.

    Or, that in the absence of tenure there will be no grossly ineffective teachers.  Of the 275,000 active teachers in the state, it was extrapolated that maybe 2750 to 8250 are grossly ineffective, quite a range in itself.   Equating quality with tenure or its absence was not in evidence, but rather in the misunderstandings of the plaintiffs--and the judge.

     And the judge, who claims fidelity to due process, objects to the Dismissal Statute as being "uber due process," citing not the statute's failings, but school administrators excuses and timidity to take the time and energy to execute them.

    Now, no one was arguing for grossly ineffective teachers, this was stipulated by both defendants and plaintiffs, but have these statutes proved to be in the same league as Brown (race), Serrano (funding disparity) and Butt (school term disparity).  I think not, based on clear cut capabilities to measure and critique performance with discernment between ineffective and gross ineffective.

    If an appeal is not taken, there does appear to be a  legislative fix that would pass muster for the judge; : the permanent employment statute could be modified to require a longer period for evaluation of new teachers, as the ruling mentioned, 3 to 5 years.  And, perhaps, the dismissal statute could be streamlined and/or administrators be held accountable for not utilizing the steps available to them in the dismissal process.


    You would think the "join me" (none / 0) (#194)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 01:14:03 AM EST
    parsing would have reached the 200-comment max by now. But you would be wrong.

    Why? (none / 0) (#197)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 10:23:46 AM EST
    It is really too out there to gain any traction. Very eccentric not surprising, nothing much to discuss.

    May as well have said that the moon was made of cheese.


    Embarrassed to say (none / 0) (#199)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 11, 2014 at 12:12:53 PM EST
    This is connected (sorta) to my alma mater.

    He's a Nutrition Professor - what could set him off like this? (although a big hint is "Alcohol is believed to be a factor in this event.")

    A Central Michigan University professor was arrested after allegedly firing a shotgun at two door-to-door salesmen on June 5, according to an arrest record filed by the Isabella County Sheriff's Department.

    Robert Dale Lee, 61, of Mount Pleasant, was arraigned on June 6 and has been charged with one count of felonious assault and one count of carrying a firearm with unlawful intent.

    Lee was released after posting 10 percent of his $10,000 bond.

    The incident occurred at 6:05 p.m. on Thursday after two vacuum cleaner salesmen approached Lee's home. The professor came to the door and gestured "one minute" to the salesmen and then disappeared behind his garage, according to an affidavit issued to the Isabella County Trial Court. The two salesmen reportedly became suspicious and decided to leave.

    Lee appeared from behind a pole barn near the home and proceeded to fire two shots at the men as they sped away in a van. One of the victims reported hearing the pellets "whiz" by his open driver's side window, read the affidavit.

    No injuries or damage to the salesmen's van were reported. A 20 gauge shotgun was recovered at Lee's home. Alcohol is believed to be a factor in the incident.